Coming of age in Florida » « Metal Darwin

I hardly need to pharyngulate an Australian poll, do I?

It hardly seems sporting, it’s already sailing off in the right direction. But anyway, have fun with it.

Should the Pope be charged with ‘crimes against humanity’, over the alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church?

Yes 76.7%

No 23.3%

My one reservation is all the focus on The Pope. Shouldn’t we just declare the Vatican a rogue state, send in the Marines, and mop up the whole mess? Then we could pay for the whole operation with an art sale, just like we’re paying for Iraq with all that oil.

Coming of age in Florida » « Metal Darwin

Comments

  1. Kobra says

    Better idea: Let’s all tax the churches and slowly separate more and more believers so we slowly financially suffocate them. And at the same time, we begin arresting sexual offending priests en masse. Give them public trials. Then charge any of the church officials who try to move them with obstruction of justice.

    Chip away at it from all sides.

  4. Lynna, OM says

    Oh, dear. Concern about atheists hurting the pope:

    The Secular Inquisition
    The campaign to arrest the pope is the product of an increasingly desperate secularism, which can only find meaning through ridiculing the religious
         The New Atheist campaign to have Pope Benedict XVI arrested when he visits Britain later this year exposes the deeply disturbing, authoritarian and even Inquisitorial side to today’s campaigning secularism. There is nothing remotely positive in the demand that British cops lock up the pope and then drag him to some international court on charges of ‘crimes against humanity’. Instead it springs from an increasingly desperate and discombobulated secularism, one which, unable to assert itself positively through Enlightening society and celebrating the achievements of mankind, asserts itself negatively, even repressively, through ridiculing the religious.
         It’s worth asking why otherwise fairly intelligent thinkers get so dementedly exercised over the pope and the Catholic Church. What exactly is their beef? What are they objecting to? Very few (if any) of the pope-hunters were raised Catholic, so this isn’t about personal vengeance for some perceived slight by a priest or nun. And despite their current lowdown, historically illiterate attempt to equate a priest fondling a child with a state’s attempt to obliterate an entire people – under the collective tag ‘crime against humanity’ – the truth is that some of these pope-hunters don’t really think child abuse is the worst crime in the world. In 2006, Dawkins criticised ‘hysteria about paedophilia’ and said that, even though he was the victim of sexual abuse at boarding school, he would defend his abusive former teachers if ‘50 years on they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers’. Yet now he wants to put abusive priests on a par with genocidaires…..

    Link:http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/8526/

  5. Lynna, OM says

    Priest gives a sermon asking Pope to resign
    Excerpt:

    The Rev. James J. Scahill describes himself as “rather a reclusive person.’’ He insists he is no rebel.
         But the parish priest from East Longmeadow was fielding media calls from around the country yesterday about his request from the pulpit on Sunday that Pope Benedict XVI step down over his handling of clergy sexual abuse.
         In an interview, Scahill sounded exhausted but firm as he reasserted his critique of the pope: “The right thing is to be truthful, and if he is not up to dealing with this, then he should have the integrity to resign.’’
         Scahill has been an outspoken critic of the church’s handling of sexual abuse cases since shortly after he arrived at St. Michael’s church in 2002, the year the clergy abuse scandal exploded in Massachusetts.
         He infuriated the local church hierarchy by withholding payments to the Springfield Diocese until it did away with a fund to assist dismissed priests.
         He made national news by pressing for a fuller investigation of the 1972 killing of a Springfield boy whose parents attribute their son’s death to an abusive priest.

  7. BradW says

    If it can be reasonably established by documentary and oral evidence that the “pope” was/is involved in a cover up (which I suspect is most probable), then, as any other person, he needs to be held accountable by a court of competent jurisdiction, and, if found guilty, suffer the appropriate consequences.

    Hooray for Rev. James J. Scahill!!!

  8. Shplane says

    That sounds like it could potentially become the best FPS ever.

    Especially if it ends with fighting the Pope in a giant PopeTron. It’d shoot, like, cross-shaped lasers, and missiles inscribed with various Babble passages concerning who Gawd wants you to kill.

  9. bplurt says

    Why recognise the Vatican as a stae in the first place? Withdraw the ambassadors, tell the Nuncio he’s just a bishop on a tourist visa, and *poof* goes the sovereign immunity and the diplomatic status.

    It’s all just a hangover from Mussolini soothing Vatican nerves after Italy swiped the Papal States. Why should it be anyone’s concern in the 21st century?

  11. scooterKPFT says

    The problem with picking off priests properly from a helicopter gunship is not only one of annoying alliteration but you might also kill some innocent journalists.

  12. https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawlZhMUnjA9BsWP9zojf401f2aINdplmJP0 says

    1/2 OT. Sorry to interupt, but I thought I should drop it here since it’s rare they admit it so unambiguously.

    Homosexuality, not celibacy, linked to pedophilia, says Vatican #2

    It is homosexuality, not celibacy, that is linked to pedophilia, the Vatican’s Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone said on Monday, seeking to defuse the sex scandal that has battered the Roman Catholic Church.

    On a visit to Chile, Bertone, dubbed the Deputy Pope, also said Pope Benedict would soon take more surprising initiatives regarding the sex abuse scandal but did not elaborate.

    “Many psychologists and psychiatrists have shown that there is no link between celibacy and pedophilia but many others have shown, I have recently been told, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia,” he told a news conference in Santiago.

    “This pathology is one that touches all categories of people, and priests to a lesser degree in percentage terms,” he said.

    http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/04/12/homosexuality-not-celibacy-linked-to-pedophilia-says-vatican-2/

  14. https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkj9xfV6KpYZlEg9BdwKt4yuG1_5_y2Bts says

    What about making the Vatican a huge museum, the artworks and archives are pretty impressive and beautiful. There should be enough money in the churches coffers to pay all the victims of the catholic church a nice sum.
    All the other churches? Tax them like any other corporations and everything should be fine. The abusive priests, pastors, whatevers? Hit them hard with the law book.
    I’m getting more and more annoyed with the churches, esp. here in Germany, we have that [insert favorite expletive here] church tax, the state collects the tax for the churches!

  15. SEF says

    @ scooterKPFT #11:

    The problem with picking off priests properly from a helicopter gunship …

    It shouldn’t be that hard to train them to aim for the traffic cones. Just how low is the US military IQ?

  16. amphiox says

    Shouldn’t we just declare the Vatican a rogue state, send in the Marines, and mop up the whole mess?

    On the other had, the last thing America needs right now is to get bogged down in another military deposition of a criminal tyrant and the subsequent occupation of a rump state full of religious fanatics.

  17. Malevolens says

    PZ-

    As a former Marine I would be most honored to lead the charge into the Vatican.

  20. jcmartz.myopenid.com says

    But I doubt that the pope will be actually arrested for crimes against humanity.

  21. Lynna, OM says

    Speaking of institutions that are difficult to punish when they abuse children, and of institutions that hide their records, here’s news about the Boy Scouts:

    Although the existence of “perversion files” kept by the Boy Scouts at its national headquarters has been known for awhile, the Portland case is believed to be only the second time any of the documents have been seen by a jury.
         The Boy Scouts has fought to keep those files confidential. But the Oregon Supreme Court in February approved the release of more than 1,000 files the Scouts kept on alleged pedophiles from 1965 to mid-1984 to be used in the Portland trial.

    The story includes details of a settlement that also required the LDS Church to pay the victim

  22. warzypants says

    I thought this was a very apt monument for the Pope’ upcoming to Malta, whatever the local Mayor might think.

  23. MadScientist says

    Before getting too excited about the unfavorable attitude to the pope, you should have a look at the composition of the nation by superstitious sects. I’d bet the same poll in Saudi Arabia would have even better results.

  24. TimKO,,.,, says

    Wouldn’t that be like blaming Obama for something Karl Rove did, since they’re both members of the American political hierarchy?
    Doesn’t sound like good non-theist morality.
    Sounds like something a xtian reinterpreting Judaic mythology would espouse.
    See:
    Exodus 34:7
    Exodus 20:5-6

    Hold the pope accountable as spokesman, sure, but being charged solely with the crime committed by all those bishops, cardinals and patriarchs? Charge the people for whom the evidence points the bony nun finger.

  25. https://me.yahoo.com/a/x1CsKko.p.keyee5Rk.DLZd7ts9OdS.ilqZgGw--#2a28e says

    I thought that the pope had completely converted Australia when he went there for World Youth Day, or did we misunderstand the thrust of that event?

    O/T but on the same page as the poll:
    “Quolls force-fed toads in survival fight”.

  26. Al B. Quirky says

    Ah…? The yes vote seems to have gone down. To 73.5%. Is that a Pharyngula Phail?

  27. ambulocetacean says

    Stupid World Youth Day cost us Australians millions. My (atheist) little brother flew up to Sydney for it with his Catholic-school year 12 class. At least he got laid by some little Catholic tramp. Heh heh.

  28. Caine, Fleur du mal says

    ambulocetacean:

    At least he got laid by some little Catholic tramp.

    So, that would make your little brother quite the slut, wouldn’t it?

  29. ambulocetacean says

    So, that would make your little brother quite the slut, wouldn’t it?

    He was a 17-year-old boy. It goes without saying.

  30. Caine, Fleur du mal says

    ambulocetacean, yes, I got that. Perhaps I should have been clearer – I was objecting to your descriptor of tramp. It was unnecessary, to say the least, and rather surprising coming from you.

  31. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    So, that would make your little brother quite the slut, wouldn’t it?

    LOLROFLCOPTER!!111!!!

  32. ambulocetacean says

    Hi Caine,

    Yes, I knew that’s what you were objecting to. My post was intended to be flippant in tone, with the word “tramp” and its connotations of low moral standards being employed to highlight the irony of an event that was a pious call to celibacy being used by horny teenagers to indulge in opportunistic hanky-panky.

    I am aware (though possibly not to a sufficient degree) of the repressive power of the casual use of misogynistic terms in everyday conversation. I never use the words “slut”, “bitch” or “whore” to describe women. Hell, I’m not even sure that I’ve used the word “tramp” before.

    I wasn’t making any moral judgement on the young lass concerned. Good for her that she got laid too. I do apologise if you remain offended by my use of the word. It was clearly a communication/humour/sensitivity fail on my part.

  33. Phasic says

    It says I’ve already voted in that poll, but I’m pretty sure I haven’t…

    Has something odd happened to the poll? Is anyone else able to vote?

  34. ambulocetacean says

    Oh, does the word “tramp” carry especially heavy baggage in the US? In Australia (where it’s rarely used) I think it’s considered pretty innocuous and connotes cheeky sexuality rather than anything darker.

  35. Caine, Fleur du mal says

    ambulocetacean:

    I wasn’t making any moral judgement on the young lass concerned. Good for her that she got laid too. I do apologise if you remain offended by my use of the word. It was clearly a communication/humour/sensitivity fail on my part.

    We’re cool. I know you aren’t a misogynistic asshole, which is why I was surprised. Maybe it’s because I grew up catholic, and heard every single, tired joke about catholic girls being tramps, etc. A lot of catholic girls (and boys, no doubt) don’t buy into all the god bullshit, but are stuck with it anyway, at least for a while.

    So, good on them both for indulging in a healthy, happy activity with no added god.

  36. Caine, Fleur du mal says

    ambulocetacean:

    Oh, does the word “tramp” carry especially heavy baggage in the US?

    Yes. It’s complete judgment in one word. In days of yore, it was a ‘polite’ way of saying whore.

  37. ambulocetacean says

    It’s complete judgment in one word. In days of yore, it was a ‘polite’ way of saying whore.

    Hmmm… again with the two-nations-divided-by-a-common-language thing. I had thought (wrongly, I guess) that the worst connotations of the word “tramp” were effectively archaic and that the word was now closer to “minx” or something. (Is minx a bad word too?)

    I’m vaguely aware that the Catholic schoolgirl occupies some strange place in the American psyche. Is it a Madonna-whore thing? I don’t think the same meme/sterotype or whatever exists in Australia.

  38. Caine, Fleur du mal says

    ambulocetacean, nope, minx is fine. Minx is a ‘cheeky sexuality’ word.

    I’m vaguely aware that the Catholic schoolgirl occupies some strange place in the American psyche. Is it a Madonna-whore thing?

    Hmmm. Perhaps. What it’s mostly about is the notion of girls who have been ruthlessly suppressed and repressed, and when they finally cut loose, they really cut loose, as in an explosion of wild behaviour on every front, not just the sexual one.

  40. DLC says

    Captain Catholic @23 :
    those pikes the Swiss guard own are replaced by assault rifles, grenade launchers and anti-tank missile launchers.
    But that’s not important.
    the Swiss Guard work for the Pope, and so surely have god on their side.
    Would not god smite down any U.S. Marines who dared set foot on the Vatican’s most holy soil ?

  41. echidna says

    Hmm. Don’t agree with the word “tramp” being quite that innocuous in Australia, but it be dependent on context, region or gender.

  42. WowbaggerOM says

    echidna wrote:

    Don’t agree with the word “tramp” being quite that innocuous in Australia, but it be dependent on context, region or gender.

    You know, echidna, if you’re going to talk like a pirate, you should always begin your sentences with ‘arrrr’.

  44. ambulocetacean says

    Hi Echidna,

    You might well be right. I might just have made an oafish assumption. Wouldn’t be the first time :)