Ken Ham of the Creation “Museum” linked to an old thread from June, prompting a sudden influx of dull-witted creationists regurgitating old canards. Normally I wouldn’t mind — the poor dullards don’t get much outlet on the creationist sites, which typically prohibit any kind of expression from their flocks — but in this case we’ve also got lots of fierce godless evolutionists who see an opportunity to sharpen their claws. That means the old thread is at a roiling boil and is now over 1300 comments, which is a bit excessive.
I’m closing that thread and inviting them to come here to carry on the discussion.
If you need a topic to prime the pump, how about conversing about the combination of charlatanry and ignorance that are needed to be a prominent creationist?
I finished reading all the posts and several have posted YouTube videos. Here are a few of my own. Again, instead of attacking (Ad Hominem), let’s have an intelligent conversation:
Evidence against evolution
Evolution fraud
Part 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsBSMmqZaM
Solar System evidence- First of nine parts
See http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=mayartay&view=videos for the remainder of the series and more.
The Lucy fossil
http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/lucy/lucy-shes-no-lady
george w. bush……Pants-Down Davy
dick cheney……….Butt-Ugly Elmer Hacke
Mike Huckabee……Pirate Laird the Fruit
Sarah Palin…………Can’t-Remember-Where-the-Damn-Treasure’s-Buried Brit
Those are amazingly appropriate.
http://www.talkorigins.org
ok, done. next?
@Ken Rhorer
I just clicked on the first youtube link; there’s a guy pretending that “there is no transitional fossil” between fish and amphibians. That is not “evidence against evolution”, is not evidence for nothing except creationism dishonesty. That means: LYING. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik )
I’ve always asked myself, what is a “transitional form” ( between fishes and amphibians, let’s say ) for a creationist ? how should it look ?
All forms are transitional. Species evolve until they die. We don’t even look for transitional forms, per se. We look for transitional features. You want to have an intelligent conversation; I’m all for it. But first we must make sure we’re using the same terms. This is a conversation about a science subject. Please constrain the conversation to terms and phrases we actually use when talking about evolution.
Sure, lets.
Who is going to represent your side? Those videos already have broken the intelligent conversation rules you established.
How about this Ken.
You provide us with specific evolutionary research you question. Tell us why you find it to be wrong or insufficient and then show your empirical evidence that refutes it. We can start from there.
Ken –
You’re new to this “attacking evolution” nonsense, aren’t you? All you’ve done is come up with some of the most popular (and weakest, incidentally) arguments against evolution that we’ve already covered and debunked at least a hundred times before. But you’re far too lazy to look for answers that might actually come from accredited, peer-reviewed scientific journals, and didn’t originate from AIG, aren’t you?
If you want us to take you seriously, you’re going to have to stop using AIG as a reference for anything “factual”. AIG is a propaganda site with no more factual basis in the sciences than mugglenet.com. No one in the scientific community believes that anything found in AIG has any merit, scientifically. None of its claims or finding are based in evidence. None of them are backed up by any scientific journal, nor are an of them supported in any independent, scientifically administered study. Why would you intentionally use that as a reference for an “intelligent” discussion about science? That’s not intelligent at all, Ken.
The only thing you will find in AIG that even remotely rings true is that evolution may not have every answer for every question we have regarding the natural world and the origins of life. But that is not how the theory of evolution works… nor any scientific theory, Ken. And besides… not having all the answers doesn’t automatically mean “god did it”. Sure you are aware of that, right?
Try reading this in regards to the “lucy” garbage AIG tried to pass off: http://aigbusted.blogspot.com/2007/09/lucy-you-got-some-splaining-to-do.html
…ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
*gasp*
hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaahaha…
*breathes heavily*
Did he just seriously cite AIG?
That’s awesome.
Literally inspiring awe.
Like a taxidermist’s hoax, half-fish and half-frog; two organisms cut apart and glued together:
http://www.csicop.org/intelligentdesignwatch/fishibian.html
(Note that the above page does also do a very good job in explaining what “transitional” fossils do look like; as Josh@#506 summarizes, taxonomists look carefully at the transitional features, which include a large matrix of homologous bones, and their shapes and relative locations. I recommend it as a link to show to creationists who are unclear on the concept.)
Ken, lets make sure you understand a little of how science works.
First of all, science is the volume of papers that comprise the scientific literature. That is a very large amount of evidence.
Secondly, only science can be used to refute science. Religion cannot refute science, nor can science refute religion. But religion looks bad when it differs dramatically from the scientific knowledge.
For a theory to be scientific, it must be published in the scientific literature, and it must show the supporting evidence for the theory. Citing the scientific literature is an appropriate way to describe the evidence. For the theory of evolution this is a minimum of hundreds of thousands of papers. Absolutely none for any other theory.
In science, the burden of proof is always on those making the claims. Disproving one theory does not automatically prove your own. You still need positive evidence for the claim.
Journals sponsored by groups, such as creationist and ID organizations, which have been declared religious by the US courts, are not scientific and cannot be cited as evidence in a scientific argument.
I’ll add more to this as needed.
Ken Rhorer,
The fact that you think YouTube vidoes and creobot crap sites like AnswersinGenesis could possibly be of any scientific relevance tells us all we need to know about your ignorance and stupidity. If you have actual arguments to make, make them here; otherwise, go play with your alphabet blocks.
Let’s see…
the trouble with evolutionary biology is that all the “evidence” was planted by Satan, after the Fall, to confuse us. God did create the world in six days a few thousand years ago, just as the Bible says. But Satan wanted to hide and obscure this from us, so he filled the world with red herrings and misleading scientific evidence. This is why all the scientists are wrong – they’re not lying, they’re not incompetent, but they’ve been misled by Satan.
Ken Ham is right, but he’s going down the wrong track. We can’t “prove” using “evidence” that the Earth was created by God, because the “evidence” was put here by Satan to confuse us. We have to reject “evidence” altogether, in favour of what the Holy Ghost tells us in our hearts – because our senses, our instruments and our reason can be deceived by Satan. We must just trust in the love of God, in the redeeming blood of His Son Jesus Christ, and in the power of the Holy Ghost. I hope that you all can see through the tricks of Satan and be saved!
amen. preach it.
perfect
OK, time to come clean: the above, Herbie McGonagall @ 514, was a Poe posted by me under a pseudonym. Apologies if it annoyed anyone.
I did this as a response to my own challenge, having noted today that virtually all the parody posts I’ve seen here are easy to identify. I wanted to see if I could do a better job, but on reflection I think it was probably pretty obvious that it was satire.
Just out of interest, did anyone believe “Herbie McGonagall” to be a real creationist?
OK, time to come clean: the above, Herbie McGonagall @ 514, was a Poe posted by me under a pseudonym. Apologies if it annoyed anyone.
I did this as a response to my own challenge, having noted today that virtually all the parody posts I’ve seen here are easy to identify. I wanted to see if I could do a better job, but on reflection I think it was probably pretty obvious that it was satire.
Just out of interest, did anyone believe “Herbie McGonagall” to be a real creationist?
No I didn’t but I loved that line I bolded.
as I said. Perfect.
(Sorry for triple post – not sure how that happened.)
eh. not a particularly good poe. but entertaining none the less.
Little-known fact: My so-called “rebellion” was actually the first labor dispute.
Things went downhill from there.
Ken Rhorer, there’s a YouTube user called thunderf00t (that’s a double zero, not a double O) who’s doing a series called “Why do people laugh at creationists?”. Watch that — last time I checked there were 25 parts.
I didn’t, but only because you explained the fideist position so clearly. I’m sure there are lots of creationists out there that express it in more muddled ways that they haven’t understood themselves…
Priceless.
Walton,
No, it was quite obviously not by a real creationist: I don’t know of any who claim the evidence was planted by Satan. That would require a basic recognition of the strength of the evidence for evolution, which almost all creationists carefully avoid acquiring. (I say “almost all” because there has been mention on this blog of some PhD biologist or geologist who recognised and admitted the strength of the evidence, but decided to pull his brain out and throw it away anyway, as required by his interpretation of the Bible.)
Hm.
Ham?
(searched using (site:www.answersingenesis.com satan) ; using Google cached link because the direct link gives a security failure)
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:https://www.answersingenesis.com/articles/cm/v25/n3/bubble
It’s kind of implicit rather than explicit, but he certainly seems to be saying that anything that contradicts God and the bible is an illusion of Satan.
*sigh* Emmet, I’m afraid our funding for the ‘get Walton a hooker’ campaign is going to take considerably more work than I had originally planned. The poor boy can’t even successfully Poe himself.
Walton,
Honestly, it was too well-written. The real trolls who believe something like that never express it either as succinctly or as grammatically. It may sound snobbish, but it’s not really. I know there are theists (such as yourself) who are capable of structuring sentences and paragraphs and organising their thoughts into writing pretty well without a lot of errors, but I haven’t seen a fundagelical troll yet whose postings weren’t riddled with spelling, grammatical, and punctuation errors.
The major problem for the Poesters is hitting the right balance between literacy and beliefs. Subtly misspelling “atheist” as “athiest”, abusing an apostrophe or two, or using capitals for emphasis once or twice would be enough, but the Poesters can’t seem leave it at that. Instead, they over-use all of these little shibboleths to the extent that the parody becomes rather over-the-top.
For my part, I dislike the most convincing Poes. The very obvious ones can are humourous and sarcastic, drawing attention to a particular fallacy or hypocrisy, and everyone gets the joke. The ones subtle enough to be convincing, though, are far too numerous, and just an irritating waste of time. That said, I admit that I’ve never found the “pretending to be a complete asshole” genre of humour funny, but the success of The Office tells me that many others do.
#528 Patricia, OM:
Yes, but at least he’s trying. He might yet get the poker out all by himself.
Optimist!
What happened to poor old Ken? He was going to refute us atheistic evilutionists, but appears to have given up the idea. Maybe having to really cite some evidence drove him off. Wimpy troll.
It’s a shame that all he did was linked to videos, the first entitled “From Darwinism to Nazism” (which with a title like that you know it’s going to be unbiased and informative.) It would be better if he just laid out his arguments in text form so they can be responded to in text form, and who knows he might have actually learnt something. Probably not but a man can dream.
I am really quite disappointed. I had high hopes for this new thread because the old one started to pick up but it did not pan out properly. While I am impressed there have been over 500 posts here but something was missing.
Ugh, awkward word usage in that last sentence. I have a terrible habit of changing a sentence in one place and forgetting to read it again to make sure the rest still works.
Yeah, the old thread had to die since the number of posts had reached the slow-the-system-down numbers. I think the creobots are a bit baffled by the second click, then they realize they are on the front page with the whole blog jumping on them instead of being hidden in the back with just a few of us yapping at them. And the fact that they can post at all seems to confound them too, as most creationist blogs don’t allow posts. The typical post: Surpise to be able to post. Screed about our incivility and intolerance. Screed about closed minds. Screed against evilution. They’ll pray for use. End of post. Not really exciting.
Hypocrisy: you’re doing it right
Hey, you want an intelligent conversation? How about you explain what you think evolution is, and we explain why you are wrong?
Nerd of Redhead,
Didn’t you know that allowing posts is a sign of closed-mindedness?
What I want to know is where do you find decent 2 pounder shot in this here port. There be a boat load of creotard targets out them, and I aims me to metaphorically plug a few of them scalawags.
One Swivel Gun Jane:
Yo!
There’s alot to choose from if you look into the other posts on her site! Have fun!
http://womenintheword.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/evolution-evaluation/
Fuck, but I can’t stand pugnacious moron assholes like Ken Rhorer. I have a full-time job. I’ve better things to do with my spare time than to try to disentangle the web of stupidity and half-facts that make up his world-view for no benefit to myself.
I’ll be perfectly happy to instruct him on evolution (or any number of other subjects) at my standard consulting fee of $90/hr.
I’m afraid I can’t accept personal cheques. As a Christian, his reputation precedes him.
Posted by: Brownkan. OM
…..ummmm, a little rushed are we lol?
All you athiests are fools! None of you have any knowledge of the basic truth that laws require a lawgiver! Nothing in the universe could exist without laws, and we can also know with unwavering certainty that they are absolute laws!
But you can’t follow even this simple chain of reasoning, and instead wish to presuppose that in fact, there IS no absolute law! And it is because of this state of perpetual lawlessness, that you are mired in your sin and stupidity. You even lie about the FACT that there is a moral system of laws, God’s laws, so you can remain in your foster parent’s care- Satan’s. But why try to say these things, you atheists are too DENSE to realise that you are moronic. I’ll explain slowly for you.
We know there is a moral law because:
1. absolutes are undeniable. Absolute moral truth is best known by our reactions not our actions.
2. we cant know injustice unless we know justice. You can’t know what is wrong unless you know what is right. The reason we know whether a map of Australia is accurate or true is because we have an absolute standard (the country of Australia) by which to measure.
3. real moral disagreements imply an objective moral standard. We can debate map A verses map B of Australia, because we have a real unchanging standard to compare them. Without a real unchanging standard of good the difference between Mother Theresa and Hitler is nothing more than a matter of opinion.
4. we would not make excuses for doing wrong if there was no moral law. What is the point?
5. we wouldn’t know the world was getting worse or better if there was no moral law. Secular humanist love to tell us that the world is so much worse because of religion. How do they know what worse is if they deny a standard of good?
6. there would be no human rights without the moral law. There would be no way to judge the Nazis, Saddam Hussein, or other war criminals without a standard beyond government or international law.
Simple. I pray that you all may invite God to be with you, that you may walk with him as I have. There is still time yet! God bless.
This is false, but even if it were true, we would know that the God of the bible is not the God of absolute moral truth because that God repeatedly violates his own moral laws, and orders people to violate those laws.
And we know that the God of the bible is cruel and unjust.
This is completely and obviously nonsense. Do disagreements about food imply an objective taste standard?
What’s your excuse for lying? What’s your point?
More garbage and nonsense.
You don’t need much of a standard of good to know that people killing other people because of religion is bad.
More garbage and nonsense.
The only moral law that is necessary is the golden rule, and the variants and expansions of that rule. All “moral law” flows from considering what it would be like to be in the place of the one you’re contemplating doing something to. Note that “How would you like it if that were done to you” and “do unto others what you would have them do unto you” and “do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you” and “Do as you would be done by” have no mention of, nor need of, God.
May you abandon your insanity and delusion and realize that morality does not need God and has nothing to do with God.
Oh golly gosh,we have a live one…..
Just cherry-picking here,but that one is actually a nice example of your being brainwashed into belief into absolutes,absolute truth,absolute power…
Whats that line from Star Wars ? “Only the Sith think in absolutes” or somesuch….
You need a standard for that,an absolute standard to tell you whats right or wrong? The secularists I know sure dont,nor do chimpanzees or chihuahuas,for that matter…..
Have we ever see Voice of Reason before? My Poe-dar is going off, mostly because the post is well-written and lacks all-caps, bible verses and superfluous punctuation. Plus, a fundie who knows enough about the world outside to US to use Australia as an example seems a little unlikely to me…
Kel,are you pulling a Neg on us? LOL
Here’s just another way to show you wrong- since you guys obviously do not get it yet:
I went to the bank to withdraw $1000 from my account yesterday. I filled out the withdrawal slip and handed it to the cashier. She pecked on the computer a while and then told me that I only had $852.47 in the account. Now, we are living in a culture that says truth is relative. So she cannot really know what is really in the account. My truth is just as valid as hers. So I said, “Well that may be true for you, but not for me. Give me my $1000.”
So now I have to find another bank. Apparently bankers do not like dealing with people who are out of touch with reality.
Is truth relative? Many people insist there are no absolutes. What do you think? Oh that’s right, Secular Humanist all think that they can extract morality from a bank account with NO money in it- the mortal world we all live in. We are all born into evil natures, and the fact that you deny this is part of that. Man, by his very nature, is hostile to God.
To explore this questioning of truth, perhaps I should discuss three possible sides of the issue:
1) Is truth absolute?
2) Is truth knowable?
3) Is truth exclusive?
Truth is absolute. Truth has been described as “telling it like it is.” If something is true, it is true for all people everywhere at all times because truth corresponds to its object. To deny absolute truth is self-defeating.
Truth is knowable. Truth about reality is knowable. To deny truth is knowable implies knowledge of the truth which is, once again, self-defeating.
Truth is exclusive. If “A” is true, then “not A” is false. Truth is not dependent on our feelings or preferences. If something is true, it is true whether we like it or not.
It follows then that all religions cannot be true because they teach opposites. While many religions have true beliefs, the religions themselves cannot all be true because they are mutually exclusive teaching opposites. Atheism is for many of the commentators here (Holback, BobC, Truth Machine- who abhorrently won an award for being a good servant of Satan, as it would appear) a religion, and if you think that denying this is proof that it isn’t, then the word that you all need to look up in the dictionary is “denial.”
May God help you to see the error of your ways.
God bless.
I think we’re going to need a new thread for the new thread…
VoR wrote:
Indeed. But even if what you say it the truth (no pun intended), why do you assume that the source of that truth is your god and not Allah, or Brahma or Vishnu or Ahura Mazda or Wotan or any one of the other thousands of deities someone at some time has chosen to believe in?
The Voice of Reason @549
“It follows then that all religions cannot be true because they teach opposites. While many religions have true beliefs, the religions themselves cannot all be true because they are mutually exclusive teaching opposites.”
Aren’t you in for a surprise when you die, christian!
Satan is as old as the universe and very wise, he doesn’t need to eavesdrop on your thoughts to come up with ways to torment you. All of the tactics he uses to influence your testimony he has used on a million others before you. It is a simple strategy, no? All the other religions are inventions of man, as is shown by the utter lack of historicity in other faiths.
The Abhramic Faiths are central to the politics of the world because it is quite clear that God Moves the world. But, as we all know from jihad-ist sects of Islam, Satan Can even trick the devout followers of our brother faiths into heinous things, simply by playing on the idea that Their God Allah is somehow not to be compared to Yewyeh. It is all too clear that Christ was closest to the truth when you see the new religions that are created out of Satan’s handiwork from this distorted image of God’s Will. Why Else would the Biggest religions in the World all be from the Same man- Abraham? Truth- God preserves it beyond Mortal lives and civilizations.
In Rev. 12:11 John says the Saints overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony. That is good news and bad news for us. The good news is that Satan cannot do anything about the blood. We are living post-resurrection. If you are a receiver of grace, no longer an object of wrath and judgment – signed and sealed by the Lamb of God. Just as God demonstrated at the first Passover, the blood of the lamb has been painted on the doorposts of your soul and neither Satan nor his demons can enter in.
The bad news is that although our adversary cannot control you from within, but he can and does try to control you through your circumstances. Since he is defeated by the blood, the only strategy he has left is to influence your word, your testimony. Sometimes there is not a hint of love on your tongue — only the poison of sin. Is that your testimony? Dear one, this is not a testimony that overcomes.
The bottom line is you are in a spiritual war; you might as well get your licks in while you can.
Hmm, I’m going to channel my inner MAJeff for this one:
Shorter Voice of Reason:
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Christ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah God blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
The voice of reason @543
I thought I’d been touched by god once, but it was only Father Murphy.
How interesting. I give my wisdom handed down from God, and what happens? Exactly what God said would happen. But it doesn’t matter. Any person who is willing to accept the truth will be redeemed. Even among our brother faiths, no doubt is there in my mind that God will save those who cannot help but be ensnared in their culture. God is no monster, though you obviously think so. But what good is talking when someone has on earplugs and a blindfold?
When was the last time you were really honest with yourself about your life, your lifestyle? When was the last time you took a really hard look at yourself, a moral inventory if you will? Most of us avoid such an uncomfortable introspection, some tragically live with a lifelong avoidance of the truth. But you and I both need to face the truth before our holy God if we want to render the enemy defenseless. Don’t hide, don’t deceive, but bare your soul before God.
Meet me halfway, meet God halfway. He only needs a little of your time and effort to change you forever into a real Force for good in this lost and miserable world. Blessings, I say. Anger is for the reprobate, the children of Hell that wallow in their futile efforts to usurp God’s power on this planet. I need no such sting to kill the demons haunting this place. My God is bigger. My God will win, and he will share the spoils of his victory to all who help. That is what I am, merely a helper.
*Stuck Speechless by teh stupid*
Responding to Voice of Reason’s continued pointless blather:
Yawn.
Anyone else notice that the writing seems somewhat….patchy, for lack of a better word? Huh? Could this be a new species of Poe? Is it a hybrid Poe, an amalgamation? Wouldn’t be too surprising if it was just some kind of cut and paste creotard though. Originality ins’t something one can expect from a Mutt religion.
A mass-murderer is not a monster?
You are a hypocrite, really. You speak of absolute truth, and then become all relativist in regards to your “Abrahamic God”, who murdered many innocents, and ordered others to murder innocents.
Why should we believe someone who is so obviously dishonest; who rejects an absolute standard of truth while claiming that such a thing exists?
Why does the voice of reason reminded me of General Chang droning on in the Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country, just before he gets a photon torpedo up his exhaust pipe?
This VoR godbot sure is prolix and vacuous.
And what’s with this needy god business? God needs this, god needs that, god will eventually win, blah blah.
You’re talking about the Biblical god, right? Might as well say Sauron is no monster – it’s just as truthful to the story, and Sauron is just as real as your god.
Bah.
Rom. 9:14-23
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
“16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”
God’s power is his own, and his ways are his ways, higher than ours. Destruction of Pagan cultures was the mark of God’s path to dominance in the world. His truth is meant to be absolute, but as time where’s on, blood-letting becomes unnecessary. This spiritual war is now a war of words. What good is a nice theology if it cannot be universally declared to be the truth, in all lands. Without the destruction of the wicked, God is nothing more than an idea.
Standards and laws are meant to be upheld. It is unrealistic for even Christians to say that Evil doesn’t not have to be stopped by our efforts. And i have addressed the unspeakable things done in God’s name- though tools of Satan they were.
Imagine your next door neighbor’s daughter was murdered in this school shooting. You know the parents are not saved. The mother met with psychologists and friends, but for some reason she turned to you for answers knowing you believe in God. “How can you worship a God who would allow this to happen?” she demands from you.
What do you say? What is the reason for the hope you have within you?
If God asked you to allow your child to go on a journey that promises tribulation, pain, suffering, who among us would say yes? What if He added, “On this journey your child will experience tribulation, pain and suffering. But I will never leave his side. I will promise to pick him up when he falls. I will carry him when he no longer has the strength for another step. I will comfort him in his sorrow and rescue him from the evil one. And as a result your son will know Me as Father and Friend. He will trust Me in all his ways. He will recognize My voice. And he will cause many to seek My face. Now will you allow him to go with Me?”
In order for one seed to bear much fruit, it must die. We are the harvest of the many seeds that have died before us.
This is got to be one of the most empty-headed trolls i have ever seen. At the same time, this whole “truth” motif seems very, very familiar…
It is getting quite late, and I must be off. But if you guys think you have me stumped, post a message:
http://womenintheword.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/can-you-handle-the-truth/
The sad thing is that I’ve known all this stuff for years, and yet no one seems to recognize it as what it is: truth. Feel free to make comments and ask more questions, because I know the Man with all the answers!
Maybe an Australian fundie, in view of the time, quite probable.
Ken Ham probably has some disciples in his own land.
Just like destruction of the kulaks was the mark of Stalin’s path to dominance; just like destruction of the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and physically unfit were the mark of Hitler’s path to dominance in the world; just like destruction of pretty much anyone who wasn’t a peasant was the mark of Pol Pot’s path to dominance.
Relativist and hypocrite that you are.
Is God unjust? Of course he is! Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot could all have equally claimed “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Romans 9:18 is probably the most damning. To some, God does not even give a choice. He makes them dance to his evil tune, then punishes them for doing exactly what he made them do.
You worship a despicable tyrant.
Current response to The Voice of Reason:
Zzzzzzz.
It’s quite safe to say that The [B]oR won’t be back. If you guys want to make a lasting impression, she’s pretty much given you a free pass. Hell, i’m gonna take it and show him a thing or two!
VoR, you’re rambling, and aren’t addressing comments so much as just block pasting arbitrary drivel.
I’d say, I don’t worship anything – God is just a particular anthropomorphic superstition that primitives use to try to rationalise events in this indifferent universe. I’d say, the best way to avoid such in the future is to hope for rationality and the rule of law to spread, and abandon wishful thinking.
I’d speak with, ahem, the voice of reason.
You, on the other hand, would spout some platitude such as “Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.”
John: Me at #568, VoR @564. Take advantage. Strike back. It feels weak to just wait here and ambush unsuspecting retards all day lol.
I still would like to call Poe on VoR.
Moreover, I submit as hpothesis that the culprit is RickrOll.
RickrOll, is that you ?
Nooooooo, it’s not_technically_ poe. Real person, Real views. Hell, i even characterized her in a Far Better light than what i’ve seen of her. Guess i Can’t trick the trickster hahaha.
Good sluething Neg. *clapping* I’m seriously dissapointed in you guys for not picking up on it. The whole thing reeked of Poe. Or fundie, or whatever you might call this newfound tactic.
Alas, this was all in an effort to damage the arrogance of this moron. Sorry guys. I’ve been banned from her site. So i thought i might as well give her some cred out here on the interwebs. She’s free to come over here and refute anything I might have mischaracterized, or whatever. But it was a taste of red meat, at any rate.
RickrOll @570, I keep a Pharyngula tab open, but mostly I’m doing other stuff. It’s one thing to address weirdoes here, but my SIWOTI syndrome isn’t so acute that I have to follow them to their den.
RickrOll:
FFS, that’s the whole point!
That’s very annoying, R. I’ve adjusted my perception of you accordingly.
Hmmmm, i guess so John. ‘Tis a shame, though, to let the person swim in their own intellectual muck.
Note- almost everything was direct from source. The whole bit about political empowerment of the Israelites (As if) was something i made up to fit with the res, Convincing? Do not worry, the hypocrisy remains utterly intact, and her arguments are in tatters. At the end of the day, that’s what matters, eh?
Okay,
can we be done with this now? Please?
As in,seriously,please?
Im sure most of us are doing this while doing something else,working,playing,watching TV,the last thing i need is this Poe shit.
Seriously.
so I was a Poe ?
@577: tsk tsk.
And it’s Not poe. It’s a real person. It was from her lips to your ears. And don’t worry, one time thing.
looks like we’ve got a poed Poe, a Poe&Sup2; ?
sh*t, Poe²
RickrOll,
this whole spiel with the links to and the poeing of that lady’s blog you obviously frequent to the point of trolling,is getting tiresome.
If you need to shoot fish in a barrel to feel intellectually superior,I dont want to know about it.
Neg’s Poe was at least original.
Can you stop with the fucking Poes? It’s really starting to shit me off and I doubt I’m the only one. The Man Upstairs* probably isn’t going to think too highly of it either.
*By which I mean our bearded overlord, who actually exists – not the judeo-christian god, who doesn’t.
It’s not about feeling intellectually superior, it’s about ruining their belief system, undermining their faith. Instilling Doubt. That’s what this site is about, isn’t it?
The idea was original. But again, if i knew that it was going to be taken as poe-behavior, i wouldn’t have bothered. I just think that this place shouldn’t allow us to take for granted that there are many xians who fly under the radar and have a large following. It is that slow cultural poisoning to which i refer.
And apparently Nance has Several blogs- though i’ve only ever seen the one. I’m sorry if it was a major inconvenience to ruin the reputation of one more influential hypocrite christian.
But who payed for this? I did. My ass is the one that gets chewed for all of this. No big deal. That the insanity is shown for what it really is means more to me than the persecution i deservedly get for behaving in such a rude manner. And i do not doubt that i deserve it. I just was unaware about what a splash this would make. This is, after all, a token thread for fundies to get laughed at. I just thought that it was a serious matter that needed slightly more serious treatment.
I apologize for the inconvenience.
geez, even when i apologize, i come off as a snarky pissant.
Sorry.
*Sigh*
Im sorry,I can only speak for myself here of course,but I believe I speak for most people here when I say that ruining anyone’s reputation is not why I am here,or posting on Internet blogs in general.
This is about discourse,and education,and fun,and the odd rant when you encounter willful ignorance and stupidity,but certainly not about ruining anyones reputation.
Youre on your own with that one.
I never saw it that way.
And as I said before,a lot of people visit this blog while doing something else,and while having a busy day,so the last thing they need is this Poe bullshit.
Looks like my Virginie started a real infection, despite commiting suicide after 30 minutes. It’s a highly contagious disease, there has been at least 3 or 4 Poes in this thread alone, none suicidal though, and there is now the risk that it has gone threadborne.
What’s the best remedy against Poe infection ? Having started it, I feel responsible to finding a way to end it.
If we could at least contain the infection to this thread alone and avoid that it goes threadborne that would be sufficient as this thread seems to be on a slow death trend anyway.
RickrOll:
And you’ve done just the opposite – all you’ve achieved with your disruption of her blog is to reinforce a negative stereotype and strengthen her and her readers’ faith.
Seriously not cool.
—
negentropyeater, I wouldn’t worry about it. If we get sucked in, we get sucked in.
Maybe, though, a refresher is in order:
“This is about discourse,and education,and fun” Clinteas
Yeah, those things that instill doubt in fundie religion. I Don’t doubt education as being key to this site’s existence, it would be insulting not to realize this, but the other main point is laughing our asses off at the stupidity of creotards and ruining their appeal for the less informed on the matter.
“none suicidal though”-Neg
You mean the poe itself or the act of poeing? It’s safe to say that i now have 0 friends on this blog now.
Ah mate,dont take yourself too seriously,or us for that matter,Im pissed off about the Poe,but I’ll get over it….So will the others…
Neg,
Im singing along to Moustaki songs,I can still sing along,but used to understand the text too,and I cant really anymore,its annoying,might buy a French book tomorrow…:-)
*Il suffirait du presque rien*
EickrOll,
I meant that the fake identity commited suicide by revealing itself.
Don’t worry about it, just learn from the experience, and you still have friends on this blog.
It’s a tough blog, people speak their minds openly, but from what I’ve seen, if the commenter gets better, most of them pardon easily and forget about it.
*Il suffirait de presque rien*
literally, *very little (or almost nothing) would be sufficient*
but it’s not a good translation. Depends on the context.
Forget about what? My memory ain’t what it used to be.
You too ?
Sorry, should have been:
Yours too ? ;-)
Memory,what memory???
*Je voudrais sans la nommer vous parler d’elle*
*I would like to talk about her without naming her*
This one is much more poetic in French.
Despite not having wasted time on this particular Poe, I’ll add my voice to the request that we get no more of this time-wasting nonsense from regulars. If the Poe is easily recognised as such, there’s no point; if it isn’t, those who invest time and effort in formulating arguments against it are going to be pissed-off when they find out. And can it with the convoluted justifications, RickrOll.
But then, what isn’t?
But then, what isn’t?
Seriously – in what other language could you name a film something like Chacun cherche son chat and get away with it?
:)
SC,
I love those 20s posters,the Toulouse-Lautrec or artsy ones,got my whole apartment plastered with them….
Chat noir,and all those….
Please. How many seconds of thought would it have taken to understand that?!?
Voice of Reason is fully capable of making herself ridiculous. You don’t need to do it for her.
For the record, it didn’t quite sound genuine. It was written too coherently. Then someone told you to use more capitalization-for-emphasis, and in your next post you did, though in the one after you returned to what appears to be your Normal level (see?). Then someone told you to godbot more, and your next post consisted mostly of Bible verses while the ones before didn’t contain any…
Exactly.
Don’t worry, we’ll get over it. Just don’t ever do it again.
(And stop using capital letters for emphasis. Use HTML instead.)
“godless evolutionists”
At least you see the problem.
“I suggest you look up ‘seperation of church and state'”
Was that added to the Constitution since last week?
I see you are unfamiliar with a couple of men named Jefferson and Madison.
The worst sins of the parody poes, it gets way too self reflective and extremely tedious. A false persona is not going to having even the surprising personality traits that even the most ridiculous of creationists will show.
rickroll-
The depths to which you will stoop astonish me. Where is CJO to call plagarism, or does he only police Christian blogs?
You need help, please check yourself into the nearest psych-ward. There are lots of people there who will think you are brilliant.
pot. kettle. black.
Nance, we’ve already determined that anything you say must held up to the highest scrutiny. So amen to the Rev. Pot. Kettle. Black
Plagiarism? Where?
(I’m honestly not following this. What, did Rickr0ll copy and paste stuff off of Nance’s blog to pull a pseudo-Poe?)
I believe God.
I do not believe religion.
Evolution is backed by millions of man hours of observation and experimentation.
Creationism aint got shit.
Nobody has ever spoken for God.
Fossils speak eloquently for evolution.
How you behave speaks louder than what you profess.
I’d rather read Poe than pull a poe.
“The depths to which you will stoop astonish me.”
If you had any intellectual honesty this would not be a problem. There’s a long list of things that you have never answered to/for on your blog Nance:
-The invalidity of the Ontological argument
-The invalidity of the Cosmological argument
-The proof of speciation (macroevolution), 2x
-The proof that God of the Gaps is fallacious and also not applicable to abiogenisis- more than once
-The refutations of many, many creationist claims @Talkorigins.org
-Complete failure of creationism to account for the similarities between man and chimps
-The complete pwnage of your “absolute truth” claims
-God is completely arbitrary and/or has no free will
-The mischaracterization and bastardization of other Christians who do not share your views (Zacharias)
-The lack of freedom in heaven which you apparently espouse
-The Bastardization of Democrats
-The Immaturity
-The rampant logical fallaciousness
-The Obama=Hitler post comments
-The post link that was discussing the problems of dogmatic religion/theology (“Tragic Tale” post here)
-The point that your fiscal policy that makes no sense (spiritual economics)
-The observation of your defensive, irrational emotionality
-The utter lack of effort to contribute to reasonable dialogue
-No willingness to learn anything that doesn’t fit your preconceptions
-trying to avoid real science by invoking “in your words” multiple times
-contradiction with above- scripture is a big book of someone else’s words
-no current scholarly understanding of scripture
-Description is scientific, prescription is theology
– no current knowledge of cosmology (willful ignorance?)
-Ignorance of the 2nd LoT
-plagiarism
– overwhelming hypocrisy
-contradiction with science and Christian scientists’ findings
-Changing your beliefs and lying about doing so (all of a sudden you believe evolution huh Nance? *roll*)
-flaming
-copping out (“if you expect me to be the bigger person then you are going to be sorely disappointed”)
-ignoring discussion
-intimidation tactics
-Lying about my answering you
-claiming that i was being dishonest- see “projection”.
-why aren’t humans still perfect? Or does perfection not exist at all?
-No response to “God is lazy” and “you are hearing voices”
-Ah, True Christians
-attempting to define what God can and cannot do
-hand-waving other denominations
-Immaturity
-strawman
-scapegoating me
-Cowardice- inferred, since you won’t be returning.
I’m sorry, but she had patience for me? More often than not, i was trying to contribute to the discussion, but she constantly wanted to ignore the issues at hand and constantly play defense, making absurd fallacious remarks, and generally act childish. She debates like a pro. Too bad there isn’t a time limit on blogging.
“You need help, please check yourself into the nearest psych-ward.”- Nance (aren’t i nice, a proper noun as opposed to an expletive? No, i can’t take my frustrations out on you)
And wasn’t it you who said, “It is good to be a “lunatic” for Christ.”? Pot. Kettle. Black
Just for kicks, why don’t you tell me where i made an egregious apologetic error? What did i say that was a mischaracterization of you?
And the list is even chronological, for ease.
Sorry for any redundancies in the list, i was going post by post, and some very startling patterns emerge. Safe to say, after compiling this list, i wouldn’t Want to try and get her to make sense. I simply do not have that amount of time on my hands.
But if someone would gladly bring her out of her foxhole- whoops, i guess that means Nance is a “foxhole faith christian”- and onto a more even playing field, this would be very great, very conducive to discussion.
But she’s free to continue living with her mind in a box, because that simply is about all there is for her sense of intellect. Some people’s minds are too small, and so they put them in boxes so that they won’t lose them. Funny how this often correlates with “blockhead”, “screw loose”, and other entertaining euphemisms. But, once again, she is perfectly free to ignore her duty as a christian to be a spokesperson for Christ if she so wishes to.
These athiests are obviously terrified of Ken and all other Bible believing Christians. Witness the nastiness, hatred and panicked name-calling that comes with pure terror. Supposedly rational, “scientific” minds such as these explode with anger when confronted with an opposing belief system. Why is that?…..
No Connie. You are projecting. We are sick and tired of Ham and people like him who think that magical stories un-supported by actual empirical science can be substituted for the real science that is being done out there.
Sick and tired of creationists pretending to have answers when all they have are hand-waving and fables. Sick and tired of those who rely on faith instead of reason injecting their ignorance into what should be a search for answers. Sick and tired of people who don’t know what it means to form a conclusion from the evidence instead of the other way around.
Sick and tired of crooks and liars cloaked in priests and pastors garments claiming to know more than those who’ve spent their lives bettering themselves through education on specific subjects. Educated to actually be able to understand the research and evidence but then be told that someone who uses a 2000 or some year old book to predetermine their conclusion knows better than them.
Sick and tired of idiots who can’t spell atheist.
Where do you fit Connie?
Connie, you are a hoot. Science is a belief system. Classical avoidance of the real agument. Creationism relies on belief. Belief in god, belief in a holy book that is always right no matter what the evidence says.
Science looks at the evidence and makes conclusions based on the evidence. No god involved. It is an evidence based system. Theories are constantly refined and nothing, repeat nothing, is held sacred. The theory of evolution has 150 years of refinement behind it, hundreds of thousands or more of scientific papers describing the evidence behind it. All science does is make religion and religious theories like creationism look silly since they don’t fit the evidence.
So you believe in a silly religous theory. Not our fault, but yours for not following the true evidence, but following religious faith to believe in an irrational theory.
Terrified? Nah, it’s done out of absolute futility. You see Ken Ham thinks he knows better than the entire scientific community, he thinks that the last 150 years of scientific research in cosmology, astronomy, geology, palaeontology, and biology has all been completely fallacious. We’ve seen galaxies that are billions of light years away, we’ve measured rocks on our world and from others that are over 4 billion years old. We have a progressive fossil record, and not a single piece of data in the last 150 years (and there have been millions of scientists working on this) has ever falsified evolution.
Yet Ken Ham thinks he knows better than all of those people combined. So instead of trying to sell his ideas to the scientific community, he preaches to the masses. This is dishonest and an act of intellectual cowardice. He’s mocked because what he’s saying completely contradicts everything several fields of science all converge together to tell us. And why? Because some old book of mythology says so. Ken Ham is a liar, a manipulator of minds and he’s arguing against a method that he obviously doesn’t understand. Calling him names is mocking the absurdity that is that missing link incarnate. When he stops evangelising nonsense and wants to play science, he can fight for his ideas in academia… but somehow getting a bunch of ignorant [not an insult btw] people to echo back “were you there?” and think that’s an appropriate response doesn’t bode well for his intellectual honesty. He’s a fraud who misrepresents science for his own religious agenda.
“by aligning themselves with a creationist institution that is a laughing stock to the rest of the world, and a mark of shame to the United States.”
Please don’t presume to speak for the rest of the world. I represent part of the rest of the world and fully support and appreciate the work of AIG.
Scott Morrison,
You’re obviously a masochist of some kind. However, if you really want to have your ass handed to you for making stupid statements it’d serve you better to do it on a thread that’s still active, and where the commenters will give you the thrashing you deserve – and seem to desire.
Ah, Scott, why do you think coming here and professing you support for fairy tales will impress us? Just show me five papers from the scientific literature that back up AIG. Until then fairy tales of the religious versus factual evidence of science. Religion looks silly when It doesn’t have facts behind it and lying to justify their inane positions based on a 2000 year old book of fiction doesn’t make religion look truthful. Just pathetic.
I represent part of the rest of the world and fully support and appreciate the work of AIG.
then you would be part of the “laughingstock” portion, as identified in the post you were responding to.
so, technically, he was indeed speaking for you, and correctly.
you can reiterate it again if you so wish, but what’s the point?
Fine. We’ll do it here, then.
No doubt Scott means he represent that part of the ‘rest of the world’ which is trapped in the Dark Ages. Yay! Tonight Soctt’s going to party like it’s 1399!
Awesome. Thanks for letting us know that you support an institution built on distorting, denying and outright fabricating scientific evidence to support their claims.
And yes you would be the part that is contained in the “laughingstock” designation.
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lust, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this, they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:3-7
Talk about late to the party. However late, my intent, if allowed to be posted, is not to spend my time in debate, but to present the gospel of salvation by grace through faith. I am not a pastor, or minister. I am not a professional scientist, or blogger. I fully understand that this text will be ridiculed and dismissed by many, but if only one will come to know my King, my Jesus, and my reason for celebration this week, I consider the ridicule worth it.
My God that created this world, as well as everything in and above it in 6 days, extended his love towards me, while I was dead in sin, Christ died for me. Because due to Adam’s sin and without Jesus’ ultimate sacrifice, I would be sentenced to death and eternal seperation from Him. That when I confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart that He died for me, was buried, rose on the third day and ascended back to heaven to one day return for me, I was saved from eternal damnation and through repentance and and daily sacrifice of myslef, He lives through me.
I understand that this simple message will be difficult to accept, but know that it is not impossible. It is with a child like faith that one must come before my King and believe in such a simple solution to all the questions made so difficult.
It is not my intent to insult the many uniformitarian presuppositions required for such a secular mind that obvoiusy dominates this post and denies the existance of my God and His creation that is so evident. It is not my intent to defend AIG, Mr. Ham or Mr. Huckabie, but to defend my King, the Lord Jesus Christ my Saviour. He is my defense and will return one day to complete His ultimate defense revealing the mysteries of the universe for all to see.
In love until all have heard and Merry Christmas!
I Peter 3:15-17
And will you ever feel dumb when you die and meet Me.
InLove, and fuck you too for all your blather about an irrelevant god and even more irrelevant bible. Your god doesn’t exist, never did, never will. No physical evidence exists for any deity. The bible was written by men to subjugate other men. Most of the bible was written many years, sometimes hundreds of years after the fact. It also borrowed myths from the surrounding cultures. Don’t religious people ever read the true history of their bible? Happy Squidmas. Happy Monkey.
Inlove,
Of course. You’re not here to debate rationally because you would lose. Just spewing assertions and not following up the responses is typical of your kind.
No, it’s not impossible. If I drink a gallon of paint and hit myself in the head with a hammer, maybe, just maybe I’ll accept it.
Do you really honestly believe no one here has heard this stuff before? We have and we know how ridiculous it is.
Yes, children are extremely naive. However, they have an excuse being new to the world and not completely matured yet. What’s yours?
_ _ _
I suspect you’re just a drive-by and won’t stick around. Try and spread your imperialist religion and get some brownie points at from Jebus. Your kind does everything they can do avoid debate because you know your religion can hold up to scrutiny.
Happy Monkey
InLove,
lay off the bong dude
or at least quit bogarting and pass it over here!