So people want to know more about the Toronto visit…
They’re charging for people to listen to me? Wow, I feel like Celine Dion now. You can get more information and order tickets at the CFI site.
I am a little uncomfortable with the hyperbole on the poster, though. Couldn’t they have said “world’s most famous atheist & science blogger from Morris, Minnesota”? Especially with Larry Moran right there in town, he is probably going to give me some grief over that line.
There are also some other things planned for Saturday, but I don’t have those details just yet. I know that the fabulous Skatje will be speaking in a panel or Q&A or something on that day, and I might be hovering around at a skeptics event around then, but it’s all a little vague right now. There will be stuff to do and opportunities to schmooze for those of you who’d rather go trick-or-treating Friday night.
The poster, by the way, is by Glendon Mellow, who even discusses his intent in creating it.
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
not Celine Dion
While you’re there, look into political asylum just in case McCain-Palin win the election.
Sigh. My parents are in town, and my small ones presumably, will wish to celebrate Samhain as is now traditional… hassling the neighbours for candy.
Ah, well. Have fun everyone. Guess I’m not gonna make it. But with any luck, My Heart Will Go On.
There’s only one thing to do now, which is to make an album.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Have a nice conference –
Any plan for european or asian tour soon ?
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What species of snake has both poison fangs and python grippy teeth? Sounds good though, wish I could go. Oh gods, I could! I’m not working and I’ve got the money!
Long way to go though, and expensive, and I’d have to face the gauntlet of the ‘antiterrorist’ security at the airport. I think if I got picked to be searched I’d burst into tears and make them all suspicious of me and make it worse. I could end up in Guantanamo Bay under suspicion of a guilty conscience. Or USA could collapse into social disorder, they’d close the airports and declare marshal law and I’d never get home. I’d have to sneak over the Canadian border and fly out of Quebec … and I don’t speak French. Nah safer to stay home and read about it. :)
I’d have asked them to change it from Famous to Infamous. Sounds more sinister that way.
Oh, I just looked at the venue address. Ontario’s in Canada, isn’t it? Silly me.
Then my shoddy land line connection dropped out and it’s taking freak’n forever to get reconnected.
Oh, I didn’t see this post before when I asked for a separate post for the Toronto trip… now I feel silly.
You’re speaking at the Med Sci building! I have classes there! This is all very exciting.
I’m confused. I thought you were speaking both Friday and Saturday nights and my plan was to go to the Saturday night event. Is that not happening any more? Never was happening and the CFI lied to me? Halp!
I assume there will be a professionally made YouTube video of your speech in Toronto.
I don’t like the artwork. The Eden symbolism is appropriate, even though the fundies will look at that and say to themselves, “See? Even the atheists admit that science is Satanic!” But that isn’t what bothers me about the poster. The Christian identification of knowledge with evil is something that ought to be exposed and subjected to contempt and ridicule.
What bugs me most is that the Serpent is hostile-looking, and has its fangs bared as if it’s about to rip the kid’s hand off. If you read the story, the Serpent is the good guy. He’s the one who employs the Socratic method, asking the questions Yahweh (“God”) doesn’t want asked, the one who tells the truth about the fruit of knowledge. He never threatens, bribes or cajoles the people to eat the fruit, or even asks them to. He just tells them the truth and lets them make the decision for themselves.
BTW, he is also the only character in the story who: 1) treats the woman as an equal, and 2) when Yahweh comes back, silently accepts responsibility for his actions and stands up to Yahweh instead of cravenly trying to blame somebody else.
When he is described as “more subtle than the beasts of the field,” the Hebrew word for “subtle” literally means “to make bare,” i.e., uncover (as in “uncover the truth”). Adam and Eve were described as not knowing they were “naked.” Both words come from the same root word. It’s a pun of sorts: Adam and Eve did not know they were “subtle” (i.e., intelligent)–they lacked self-awareness of their humanity.
The Hebrew word nakhash (serpent) can also mean “to divine” (divination), “diligently observe,” and “utter a magical incantation” (from the hissing of a snake). In the context of the times in which Genesis was written, “magic” = science. A magician was someone who sought to understand the underlying principles of how the “spiritual world” worked, and with this understanding a magician could approach the “gods” in tones of command. Knowing the right incantations, rituals, etc. to perform, the magician could (so they believed) achieve desirable results.
The clergyman, by contrast, is not so much concerned with knowledge, as with power-politics. The clergyman approaches the gods in terms of supplication, offering tribute (sacrifices), and demanding that the people obey the will of the gods. In return for unquestioning obedience, the clergyman can beg the gods for miraculous favors. Who should we obey, and what do they want? That is the clergyman’s knowledge base. No wonder then, that clergymen hate magicians.
Of course, the ancient metaphysics “magic” is based on has been refuted, but in terms of approach, the magician is the evolutionary ancestor of the scientist.
Alchemy–>Chemistry. Astrology–>Astronomy. Numerology and Sacred Geometry–>Mathematics.
This poster shows just how deep the Christian meme is implanted. Even though it was crafted by atheists intent on reversing the propagandistic thrust of the Genesis tale (presumably the child getting its hands on the fruit of knowledge is a good thing), the Serpent must STILL be portrayed as hostile, ugly, and “Satanic.”
Is there a discount if you come in costume?
Don’t worry PZ they aren’t charging very much.
Celine’s body guards would charge more than that just to give you a beating and send you on your way.
I’ll be there though. The little bastard will have to fend for himself on the candy hunt.
I thought Anthony Flew was the most famous atheist? Oh, right, that’s just coming from the theists. Personally, I’d never heard of the guy until his “conversion” was discussed here.
Please do let us know what the Saturday plans are. Like many folks I will be paganizing on Friday, and I would be devastated if there was no chance to smooze in my hometown with the world’s most famous atheist (from Morris).
kcrady, you’ve got some well-voiced criticisms there.
You can choose to observe the snake as the apparent ‘good guy’ helping-humans-steal-knowledge-from-god-overlords-figure, I suppose. I like your analysis. I wasn’t raised in any religion, but perhaps you’re right about Christian memes.
I tried to show the snake is not representing science here, but rather superstition. It’s the talking snake that demonstrates the fable -not factual- nature of the story. It’s why I tried to paint it as though it were forming out of mist, and not model it on any real snake (as katkinkate points out!).
The double helix on the branch is meant to be science supporting the apple of knowledge. The Toronto District school board’s symbol is an apple. I started there and built the rest.
Whether or not it’s successful depends on what people see.
World’s most famous! That’s terrific.
I have to say it’s a good thing you’ll be in Canada on Halloween. The war against Halloween has already begun!
World’s most famous is nice and eye-catching on posters, but I can’t claim responsibility for the text. :-)
Why does that poster not have a squid? It should have a squid. Why is there no squid?
PZ at UfT … one word: SWEET! Cant wait :)
PZ, you are world famous if you like it or not! Even Richard Dawkins mentioned you at the recent Conservative Party Humanist Group launch soiree:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,3234,Richard-Dawkins-at-Conservative-Party-Conference-2008,Conservative-Humanist
However, he did refer to you as ‘Pee Zed Myers’. Can’t have it all I suppose.
No!!! Not Friday :(
Please let us know of any other events while you’re in town. I’m so sad that I have to miss this one.
krady@#12
Odd, I interpreted the snake as symbolic of religion here. For the record (dare I say it here?) I’m a liberal Christian. I presumed that as a poster for science education that the snake represented evil (generally what I was brought up to believe), and therefore since this was a secular poster, the traditional symbolism had to be reversed. It’s an excellent poster in that respect. The mixed symbolism makes you think and the lecture should too. It should be an interesting evening.
I’m cool with the symbology of all snakes rolled into a generic Snake with elements of the whole snake experience. I didn’t really mean any criticism. It was 2.00am for me and my impulse inhibitors were asleep (like the rest of me should have been). I just typed whatever thoughts my brain throught up … sort of stream of consciousness stuff. Anyhoo, I hope there’s some sort of recording taken of the event. It should be very interesting. I’m really not crazy.
..yeah but we’ve all seen him cuddling up to a plush, furry, pink squid toy so he can’t put on the sinister act around here.
PZ, how come you never come to New York? If you’re ever in the area, drop me a line beforehand and I can guarantee you a huge turnout at NYU Law. Reports of our respectability are greatly exaggerated.
Hey katkinkate, I wasn’t offended. I’m expressing scientific-artistic guilt.
I remember Gary Larson lamenting about whenever he placed penguins and polar bears or cave people and dinosaurs together – you know it’s inaccurate, but you do it anyway.
I’m like that about the snake fangs…less so about the winged trilobites crawling on my site tho’.
Hey katkinkate, I wasn’t offended. I’m expressing scientific-artistic guilt.
I remember Gary Larson lamenting about whenever he placed penguins and polar bears or cave people and dinosaurs together – you know it’s inaccurate, but you do it anyway.
I’m like that about the snake fangs…less so about the winged trilobites crawling on my site tho’.
The winged trilobites are well done. Do they fool many?
Thanks.
Fool? No, I don’t think so. So far I’ve found people who know what a trilobite is know the wings are imaginary on purpose, and people who don’t know what they are usually just point blank ask what the creatures are supposed to be.
I read an article at DKos by the fabulous Skatje and you are correct again…she’s very smart.
Sondra
Discount or no, I will be there, complete with sexy French Maid costume :).
This Canadian evangelical Christian creationist will not be there as it seems there is not something intellectuality interesting. Just ordinary denial of God, Christianity and faith in evolution to explain the great complexity of what we see.
People in toronto live with so many different kinds of people, unfortunately, that attacks against people who believe in God etc are silly. Everyones intelligence finds room for God and those who oppose these people are not welcome.
People like myers will be seen by Canadians or ethnic citizens of Canada as unreasonable, harsh, and strangely angry. Not likely to persuade.
It’s all too complex, that’s why God had to make galaxies 13 billion light years away!
Shorter Robert Byers: I’m so unconcerned about this, I had to go on your blog to tell you how unconcerned I am. Insert projection of faith onto science, insert appeal to multiculturalism, insert arrogance, and insert you’re-so-mean fallacy. Done.
This particular Canadian naturalistic Atheist “evolutionist” is looking forward to seeing you on the 31st, P.Z., and perhaps also to going out for some beers afterwards..
kcrady @ 12:
Nicely put. That’s certainly the best way to look at that story. I just worry that PZ may have to wrestle the snake in the picture in order to prove that his science mojo is strong.
Say, if a Saturday night event develops, count me in. I have a hockey game at 10, but I think I can squeeze one beer in before that.
Canadians or ethnic citizens of Canada
Quite a telling quote. In what way are “ethnic citizens of Canada” not Canadians?
How about advertising the event as:
Come see and hear!
Dr. P.Z. Myers known for wanting to undo tenure laws for science teachers that stray from his model of what is a good teacher.
Dr. P.Z. Myers known for wanting to decide for trained librarians what books and publishers should be allowed in public school libraries and where they should be placed.
Dr. P.Z. Myers known for being intolerant of religion and free speech. Known for lack of civil discourse and proposing new “McCarthy like” investigations.
Dr. P.Z Myers known for being a metaphorical “bully” for quotes like:
“The only appropriate response should involve some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and the public firing of some teachers, many school board members, and vast numbers of sleazy, far-right politicians…I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It’s time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.”
coacholson, that’s kind of a lot of text. And you left out the date and time.
If I’m going to include brass knuckles and re-shelved books, I may have to re-paint the thing.
Glendon:
Friday Oct. 31st 7:30
I am sure you are up to it being the talented fellow you are. You can leave out the brass knuckle part and just put etc.
*sigh*
Thanks for the compliment about my madartzskills.
coacholson, I did the poster because of the respect I have for PZ. The brass knuckle quote is clearly an attempt at metaphor. PZ doesn’t advocate violence.
“…intolerant of religion”, I think not. Complete lack of respect for religion; much more likely.