There isn’t a “HELL, NO” option on this one, but there ought to be. Do you think Sarah Palin is qualified to serve as Vice President of the United States?
“Yes” is currently leading 55:43.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Isn’t all she has to do is cast a tie-breaking vote in the senate? There’s no way she is qualified for that.
She is qualified to shoot a moose, though.
Hmmm… It is still at 56%, but I guess we haven’t quite started yet.
Maybe we can take John Stewart’s advice and also have the V.P. mow the lawn.
This woman in under investigation for misuse of power, has virtually no experience of national politics, and has no foreign policy experience.
It is ridiculous that she would even be considered for the job, let alone a majority of people suggesting that she might actually be a good choice.
Aaah, the world still revolves around us.
Now it’s 56% Y, 43% N. :/
Not too happy to see PBS getting into the garbage-poll business.
And I’m not too happy to see that the PBS garbage-poll results are skewed toward the uninformed ;(
The only qualifications to be VP are to be at least 35 years of age and a native born US citizen. So, yes, she meets the minimum qualifications. The question is whether she is the best qualified to be VP.
Why aren’t the dems pounding McCain for his statement (back before the convention) that she was the most qualified person for the job? Hell, Tina Fey is as qualified as she is.
pbs.com, not what i imagine as a right-wing hangout, still 56:43
Just watch a nice octopus cartoon instead of worrying about it:
http://interestingtimes.blogspot.com/
(“I Never Liked Calamari Anyway”)
This one is going to be tough to Pharyngulate. If you highlight the whole results page, you can see:
Total Votes: 279451
It’s the same color as the background, which doesn’t help.
If by “qualified” one means the strict requirements of the U.S. Constitution, then any native-born adult over 35 years of age is qualified. So, yes!
By any sane measure of accomplishment, temperament, and sensible political philosophy, then the “hell, no!” option seems a better response.
I’d trust my 18 month old son who can’t talk to be VP over her. At least the only vomit coming out of his mouth would be physical.
Also, it’s worth noting that this is last week’s poll, which explains the huge number of respondents and the strange balance. I don’t know if it’s worth tackling a poll where 150,000+ responses already favor the wrong side.
Oh, and technically my son would qualify to be VP since the age limit and natural born citizenship only apply to the office of the President. The problem would come if the Pres died and he had to step up. He can stand though so he could do that better than Palin as well.
I don’t think she’s qualified, for many of the reasons above…though I will say I think she’s more qualified than W was when he first became president. She’s been in politics for a while now too so she gets a few kudos there (though not national level unfortunately). If nothing else, she’ll make for some fabulous Saturday Night Live skits going forward :-)
Well she hasn’t shot anyone in the face that we know of, so uumm no. *snicker*
You know the country is doomed when even the vanilla liberals who watch PBS think a fool like Governor Palin is qualified. If I may speak in earnest, “AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH.”
wget is your friend
wget –post-data=’site_id=now&poll_id=now-435&results=%2Fnow%2Fpolls%2Fresults-435.html&q1=2′ http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/poll/poll.pl
or something like that
As the economy start to really get crumbling and as the backroom buys of the President’s secret little “working” group of financers fails to jumpstart a Volkswagon…
I ask myself WHICH of the four present “contenders” had an inkling of what was coming down the chute.
I look back at all the debates and the ample opportunities each had (minus Palin) to make a simple forecast of what was coming and what the “fundamental” problems are/were, and I conclude that Obama, Biden, and McCain are either clueless to a scary degree or dictated to by “insiders”, meaning Washington regulars who don’t get elected but seem to pop up all the time in these election charades after the votes are counted…
We now sit 9.65 TRILLION in debt with over 90 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities, Our federal government is taking our tax money and shoring up private businesses whose CEO’s are raking in wads, spending HUGE amounts running ships up and down the coast of Japan and blaming the market for the mess created by the Federal Reserve and the US Federal Government in tag team fashion.
The Dems are blaming the Repubs, the Repubs are pointing at the Dems, while we simple folks here in Oregon with a lick of common sense can see what the problem is and knew this was all coming years ago.
If y’all were to ask me, I’d say I don’t see a single “qualified” leader in the bunch. Reminds me of last election.
Where are all the smart peole with common sense?
Driving taxis and cutting hair.
Scott from Oregon,
Common sense is a very uncommon thing during the presidential campaigns.
Palin:
Over 35 years of age – check
Natural born U.S. citizen – check
Resident within the U.S. 14 years – check
She’s qualified. See U.S. Constitution, Article 2, Section 1.
Of course, context is important for meaning. So eligibility is obviously not the question at hand, whether or not someone meets the criteria would be seen to long before their name is touted in public. A question on qualification is obviously referring to a subjective viewpoint of whether the individual has the personal characteristics in order to do the job to a satisfactory level.
But of course, don’t let that get in the way of stating the obvious.
What does it take to be disqualified for VP? Not even a shooting spree, apparently …
DaveScot, dear boy, you’ve gone and found the letter of the law and yet missed the spirit of the poll. Of course legally she meets all qualifications, that is not in question. What the poll, and this post, are concerned with is whether or not the public considers her to be in possession of enough intelligence, experience, and sound reasoning capabilities to fulfill the role of VP and quite possibly the role of president. A thinking person will say no.
But then again I’ve forgotten the large segment of the population who judges a candidate on whether or not she is a good Christian who will bomb the fuck out of bad Muslims.
Run along and play with Dembski, now, and be sure not to trip on any fossils! I hear the devil has been planting them here and there.
Which is better: politics, or fungal spores?
Davescot
“eligible” is not the same as “qualified.”
And so goes Pharyngula. Scott posts something that totally lacks in any actual solutions, DaveScot likens the V.P. office to something that the wino on the corner is qualified to fill.
And here are all the rest of us, we ragged few, conscious of the staggering amount of ignorance in this world and doing whatever we can in our own small way to stem the tide.
Rather depressingly poetic really. If only Cuttlefish were a nightowl, we’d have this in verse.
243 people say you should crash this poll PZ!
MikeX
Ripples in ponds may reach oceans…
12:15 am 17 Sep and it is down to 52% Yes. Haven’t checked to see if you can easily vote multiple times, but I presume you can if there are almost 300K votes on a PBS poll.
The creationist retard DaveScot (#23) is not qualified to be a human.
Lago, I dearly hope our ripples make waves.
Because if McCain gets elected for example, I may actually have to become a politician. And my career (and integrity) is doing just fine without all that… ;)
@11 Fear not Craig! This is a job for LWP! While disguised as a mild-mannered Firefox client, this PERL script of steel is able to leap tall polls in a single bound! (Or at least a few 10s of 1000s of loop iterations…)
It seems as if the tide has turned just a tad.
He is, however, elibible for human rights.
Palin is as qualified to be VP as Obama is to be President. So make of that what you will.
As for me, this will be the first election ever in which I will not be voting for the top of the ticket: the choices are just too awful.
Man, these polls suck. I need to show them how it’s done.
http://www.kobrascorner.com/voting-booth.php
Let’s not forget, that to most Americans, the phrase, “Is she qualified to be President?” actually means, “Do you think she is reflective of you and your cultural norms?”
We need to make people understand that the above isn’t applicable to the Office of the Presidency of the United States. We need to have them think in terms of the Office being equivalent to a brain surgeon, and the patient is the voter’s 10 year old child, instead of the US. Maybe then they will realize their unbelievable blunder in voting for people that they would like to have a “beer with.”
As of 9:30 a.m. Brussels time (GMT-1):
50% yes
48% no
I’m getting really, seriously scared for you guys.
Let’s face it MikeX. Politicians are basically people who get elected by promising to back as many positions required to get enough votes to win, even if those positions are in direct conflict with one another…
It’s sorta like gettin’ paid to be a slime-eel.
Davescot @23
Being qualified to run as P or VP is not the same as being qualified to SERVE as P or VP, or we wouldn’t be having an election, we’d just raffle it away.
LC,
This statement is factually false. There is a clear experience difference between Obama and Palin beginning at the level of documented foreign experience and also at documented national administrative experience. Thus, even at this simplified level that statement is a lie. Making you either an ignorant yahoo, or a liar. Neither of which are positive attributes.
#37: LC, how can you just blithely claim that Palin’s qualifications are similar to Obama’s? Seriously? You think a college dilettante who’s run some low population jurisdictions for a few years is comparable to a Columbia grad and Harvard Law Review president who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago? You think somebody who served about 200,000 people in Illinois’ 13th Senate district is comparable to a mayor of < 10,000? Hell, even Obama's state Senate seat represents about 1/3 of the population of Alaska. Even when Obama was organizing on the south side of Chicago, his responsibilities included more than 10x the number of people in Wasilla in 1996. Sheesh. She's intellectually and consecutively inferior just on positions held and institutions attended. But we won't use that questionable criterion. If we did that, then we'd say: Inhofe ~= Feingold > Lincoln.
Which simply isn’t true. Use your own brain, sheesh.
Oh, don’t take me as naive Lago. I’m a satire writer among other things. I know politicians may be forced to sacrifice a certain amount of integrity in order to sway voters, but that doesn’t make them all equal as I’m sure you’d agree.
I simply wish for another direction to be taken by our “leaders” and I’m worried about the real word consequences of what will happen if we don’t make such changes. It may mean that some of us who watch on the sidelines may have to sacrifice certain things and get dirty themselves, for “the greater good” as it were.
Oh, I never assumed you to be naive MikeX. I think I just like pointing towards the obvious when it gets more surreal than a Dali Painting.
and have you seen that poll already?
http://www.opposingviews.com/questions/does-intelligent-design-have-merit
We’re at 51% on “no”.
Let’s get this sucker to 99%
Now at 48 yes, 51 no, with 0 percent “Not Sure”. There doesn’t seem to be much indecision in America, considering that we’re still learning who this woman really is.
BTW, it appears you can vote more than once, so this thing might not be as hard to freep as it should be.
Hey, Vidar, I’m not so sure we can get that sucker to 99%. That would require about 16 million or so additional “no” votes. You up for that? I’ve put in my paltry 40,000 votes. I mean, I’m comfortable doing things Chicago-style, but not so much North Korea style. Know what I’m sayin’?
That’s funny you should say that. I’ve been expecting to see John McCain’s face melting any day now. Along with that, I’m eagerly awaiting to hear it confirmed that Palin really is a genetic experiment, splicing Karl Rove, Ann Coulter and George Bush into one person.
This will of course come after Obama has a ray of hope surgically implanted into his eye…
I know how most expat-Americans feel about Sarah Palin and unfortunately, right now, I know how most Europeans feel about Sarah Palin. She has offended almost everyone over here.
However, what I wanted to talk about was how offended I am that you put Midnight poll. It is not midnight everywhere you know!
(please feel the snark as you are reading my post)
Expat Yelli
How silly to complain about that! Sheesh, always a whiner. You even have to assume a spherical earth for what you say to even start to make sense. And we all know we are sitting on a 6,000 year old flat disk made by God for his pleasure.
Looks like we’re making an impact after all:
Yes 47%
No 52%
Strictly speaking, I’d have to say “yes”. After all, we all know that the VP’s job is to get up every morning and check that the president is still there, and I do believe that from a purely technical perspective, she is qualified to do that – she is able to get up, and she is able to perform the check. :)
But I still voted “no”. So there.
Anyone up for a little more automated fun?
Blackadder: Well, you could appoint him a High Court judge.
Prince: Is he qualified?
Blackadder: He’s a violent, bigoted, mindless old fool.
Prince: Sounds a bit overqualified.
I rather prefer Ferretzor’s idea to mine. Here’s a quick little way to make it easier for any of you in possession of a bash shell:
while [ 0 -lt 1 ]; do wget -o /dev/null -P /dev/null --post-data='site_id=now&poll_id=now-435&results=%2Fnow%2Fpolls%2Fresults-435.html&q1=2' http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/poll/poll.pl; done &
This backgrounds the job and sends all output to /dev/null . So, don’t forget to kill it at some point…
While we’re at it, we might just want to try crashing the current poll which asks:
“To what degree will religion play a part in your decision?”
Here’s the modified code for those with *nix and/or BSD/OS X.
while [ 0 -lt 1 ]; do wget -o /dev/null -P /dev/null –post-data=’site_id=now&poll_id=now-436&results=%2Fnow%2Fpolls%2Fresults-436.html&q1=4′ http://www.pbs.org/cgi-registry/poll/poll.pl; done &
Remember, vote early and often.
It was at:
Big/moderate/small/no
53/15/5/25
with about 4000 votes when it started. Let’s see how far it can be pushed.
Unfortunately, the repuglicans spin and lie their way through another campaign. Only they could seriously say that the governor of Alaska is more experienced than a US Senator. Oh and after they watched in horror after Palin tubed the Charlie Gibson (who’s not exactly Mike Wallace) interview have you heard their spin regarding the “Bush Doctrine” question? Some talking head was on CSPAN squawing smugly that it was a “trap question and therefor unfair”. I wanted to puke. The sad part is the number of morons out there who will buy it. Oh and Palin’s next interview–Sean Hannity at FOX–giving her the “fair and balanced” get well treatment because as her campaign has directly stated, she’ll only do interviews they deem will be respectful and defferential to her. I sure hope Putin treats her with defference if it ever gets to that. How much you wanna bet Hannity will open with the Bush Doctrine and she’ll have some sort of prepared but oh so sincere doublespeak about how she knew what it was but the klieg light got in her eyes when Gibson asked. Its so painfully obvious that McCain put about as much effort into vetting his VP that the Bush administration put into vetting the intel about WMDs in Iraq. Why can’t America wake the f— up and see that??!!
Et tu, PBS? Which I thought was the last bastion of the non-stupid? (Except when they’ve got that stupid corporate motivational speaker on talking about how you can change your brain and stuff)
@60: “The sad part is the number of morons out there who will buy it.”
and this is the great problem with the great u.s. of a.
(at least) 50% incapable of a sound view of reality in the 21st century!
Here are some more polls
http://www.squidoo.com/sarah-palin-republican#module11258569
http://themittblog.com/2008/08/29/palin-poll-follow-up/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/04/opinion/polls/main4416798.shtml
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/29/poll-time-are-you-pumped/
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/federalheadlines/28266559.html
On a side note, Palin reminds me of Kristy Masters(The catty prom-queen who ends up constantly pregnant and married to a construction worker) from Romy and Michelle’s Highschool Reunion. I think it’s the bangs.
Maybe that’s why I don’t like her.
Americans are starting to wake up to reality. No, Palin isn’t an angel, or just your average moose hunting hockey mom, she’s also the opportunistic far-right politician that makes Bush or Cheney pale in comparison.
And as Americans are now gettng a closer look at her, her favorability numbers are rapidly eroding :
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/palins-favorability-numbers-eroding.html
In the comming weeks, with the latest news on the financial and economic meltdown, and as the presidential debates will start, the focus of the public will move away from the extreme crazyness of the post convention period where only 2% of media coverage was on the issues (economy, war, healthcare…) and the rest on the horse race, the attacks counter attacks about Palin, etc…
Right now, polls show a litteral toss up between Obiden and McPalin, both on the national level and on the states electoral votes. But this is the best McPalin will get, and as the country’s short lived love affair with Palin dissipates, and is replaced by McCain’s complete ignorance of economic fundamentals and non-recognition of the crisis, I predict that Obama will remain clearly in the lead for the last 30 days prior to election day.
While I would have liked to see that great Mormon, Gov Romney, I am very happy that Gov Palin is the vice presidential nominee.
What I like best about her is her “Pro Life” attitude. She believes that human life begins at conception and at that moment a new human life is formed. It even has its own DNA and therefore is a totally new and different human being from its mother and its life is sacred and to kill it would be the taking of another human life.
Not anymore!
“No” is winning now…
Lluraa,
I recommend that every time you have sex with somebody, that you go to a hospital. The rate of spontaneous abortion in humans is actually rather high. And every spontaneously aborted fetus is, as you say, a genetically unique human being. It’s even got its own little soul and Jesus weeps every time a fetus dies that way. So, I suggest you go to a hospital and try to hire somebody with cell culturing skills so you can save every potential human life (and a soul that Jesus loves!) that you might bring into this world. There is a holocaust of aborted (naturally, but so what, it is probably the work of Satan) fetuses you could try to save. Perhaps the Congress could mandate automatic checkups after every bout of intercourse because after all, we mustn’t let those “new human lives” be wasted.
It even has its own DNA and therefore is a totally new and different human being from its mother. – Lllllllluuuuuurrrrrraaaaa
Like a cancer you mean? They start as single human cells with their own unique DNA too.
Sarah Palin is crazy. She believes in idiotic Bronze Age superstition. In Europe, she’d never get elected to public office. What the heck is wrong with Americans? (Rhetorical question!)
An idiot who believes in magic could become President of the USA. Look where the current idiot who believes in magic has taken the World. Can the rest of the World take any more of this sort of crap? Americans, please vote for Obama. He can’t be as bad as Palin.
Nick wrote: It even has its own DNA and therefore is a totally new and different human being from its mother. – Lllllllluuuuuurrrrrraaaaa
Like a cancer you mean? They start as single human cells with their own unique DNA too.
The difference Nick is that when the embryo is allowed to flurish it matures into a fetus and then a baby and then the other stages of human development. So see Nick it is part of the human species from the moment of conception.
Oh Lluraa,
Do you like to throw your head up against a brick wall? Cuz as far as I can tell you have been doing just that for years.
The ‘Pro-life’ stance you claim to uphold is bogus. Do you believe in capital punishment? And if you really believe that a zygote (a fertilized egg) is a life then why dont you and your ilk protest at fertilization clinics?
You are nothing but a fool.
Llurra the moron is back. Two questions for you.
Why do you continue to post here?
Do you think we appreciate your posts?
I’m really shocked this needs to be pharyngulated…
Palin isn’t qualified to serve drinks, much less as the Vice President.
Not just that. About 2/3 zygotes don’t make it even to 10 days for a variety of reasons, which means there are eleventy billion “human lives” on discarded feminine hygiene products. They must be saved! “Pro-life”-ers: start collecting used Tampax! Maxi-Pads for Jesus!
Not just that. About 2/3 zygotes don’t make it even to 10 days for a variety of reasons, which means there are eleventy billion “human lives” on discarded feminine hygiene products. They must be saved! “Pro-life”-ers: start collecting used Tampax! Maxi-Pads for Jesus!
Emmet, it isn’t only Christians who are prolife, there are people of every religion and no religion who share the prolife vision. Perhaps a comment like you made shows how close minded and myopic you and your fellow posters are.
Lluararatarda
Tell me about Chief Sitting Bull’s great great great great …> great Grandpappy Lehi.
I get especially galled when people make bizarre claims, like Palin being the only VP candidate ever who is able to dress a moose (how about Teddy Roosevelt? how about any candidate between 1788 and 1940?), or claiming that Palin’s as experienced as Congressional Medal of Honor winner, former Assistant Secretary of the Navy, former Dakota territory sheriff Teddy Roosevelt, because they both served two years as governor.
Sen. Kay Hutchison of Texas was spreading this crap on CBS on Sunday, saying no vice president ever brought significant foreign affairs experience to the job — forgetting Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, I presume, both of whom had been ambassadors before they served.
I notice the poll at NOW has tipped, by the way. Your poll fu is powerful, P.Z.
I hope your vote fu is as good.
For hell’s sake. I shouldn’t be shocked or disappointed after the past eight (or 30 …) years of sheer buffoonery and jackssery, but I am. I’m shocked this is even a question, when it should be self-evident that she’s as qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency as … well, me.
Come to think of it, now I’m really pissed off that I wasn’t picked as a VP candidate. Sheesh.
Awesome dave. I see that your standards are pretty low as can be seen by your support of Palin and that statement alone.
Do you think that Brad Pitt is also qualified. He fits all the above? What about this guy. He also fits those qualifications.
…I get especially galled when people make bizarre claims, like Palin being the only VP candidate ever who is able to dress a moose…
Wow. I read this and thought, ‘why would you want to dress a moose? I know people put clothes on their cats and dogs, but a moose? And why would anyone claim that as a valuable skill?’ – and then I remembered that ‘dress’ also means to butcher.
Sarah Palin should stick to what she is qualified for – being the guest of honour at the opening of a new SUV dealership.
Unrelated, but seriously, I need to show this to someone who will understand my disgust:
“Abortion Issue Again Dividing Catholic Votes”
My favorite parts are the man who calls Palin the “perfect woman,” and the man who asks if an Obama win will mean they’ll have to call it the “Black House”.
Catholics need to stop claiming that they’re the reasonable, non-extremist sect of Christianity.
Which might be relevant if one lived in, say, Turkey, but in the US and Europe, it is predominantly right-wing Christians, including Catholics and Fundagelicals, who want their theological position made law, and forced pregnancy rammed down the throats of people who don’t share their views.
That bent the needle on my irony meter, even though I’m using a particularly thick bar of scrap irony from your previous comments as a shunt.
Palin is losing popularity fast. Some conservative leaders have turned on her and McCain, Romney for one.
Some of the rank and file also. There are some polls out within the last day that show her slipping noticeably. As word gets out about the vicious personality of a religious kook who is ignorant, it sinks in that she isn’t running for moose killer or crazy mom.
The ruling classes have only one True Religion. Their power and money. If the ship of state sinks or vaporizes after god shows up and drops a few thousand nukes, their money isn’t going to be worth much.
Hard to say if it will make much difference. The recent pattern is for the US to elect the worst candidates possible. And there is something drastically wrong with the USA that McCain and Trigger Palin are even close to the Dems after 8 years of the Bush catastrophe. Toynbee didn’t quite put it this way, but it seems all civilizations eventually decide to go lemming and run off a cliff. It had to happen to us sometime.
PS There is one group of fascists who are ecstatic about Palin. The neocons, the idealogues with the doctrine of Pax Americana where we create history around the world by fighting endless wars with anyone who looks at us cross eyed. They are now Palin’s mentors on foreign policy, one of the many areas she was completely ignorant of.
Cmon Lluraa answer the questions !!!! Or what are you afraid of?
The ‘Pro-life’ stance you claim to uphold is bogus. Do you believe in capital punishment? And if you really believe that a zygote (a fertilized egg) is a life then why dont you and your ilk protest at fertilization clinics?
Lluraa, why stop and fertilized eggs? Why not just consider all sperm and eggs to be potential lives? I demand you start protesting outside the bedrooms of teenage boys right now!
at – stop at fertilized eggs. Duh.
Lllllaaaaauuuurrrraaaa@71,
A human cancer is part of the human species. So is every sperm produced by every man in the world – trillions of members of our species, perishing every day. Now, Lllllaaaauuurrrraaaa, write out 100 times:
“A blastocyst is not a person.”
Then tell us about the magic underwear. Tell us how happy you are that you’ll only be allowed into heaven if your husband asks for you. Tell us about the planet Earth’s creator lives on. Tell us about how we can all become gods (or if we’re unfortunate enough to be female, subordinate goddesses). Tell us where the Native Americans came from.
There are a bunch of homeless guys down at the park. They push shopping carts around all day while clutching brown paper bags shaped like bottles. Some of them hold long conversations with people only they can see.
According to the moron, they qualify to be president or VP as well. Whatever, it isn’t obvious that they would do a worse job than McCain, Palin, or Bush/Cheney. In fact, they might be so busy raiding the white house booze supply that nothing gets done. A distinct improvement over the last 8 years.
Well, according to Pope Benny, every sperm is sacred.
416833 votes cast now. 41/57 yes/no
poll breaking is fun!
(also, it appears to let you vote more than once)
lluraa,
First, stop calling them prolife, when most of them are for the death penalty, and many would rather see the mother die than to allow an abortion.
So let’s call them antichoice, by opposition to prochoice.
Then, the only Christians where a majority are antichoice (according to pew forum’s latest report) are :
– Jehovah’s witnesses (77%)
– Mor(m)ons (70%)
– Evangelicals (61%)
All other Christian faiths, a minority is antichoice :
– Black churches 46%
– Catholics 43%
– Mainline protestants 32%
Apart from muslims (48%), all non christians (jews, buddhits, hindhu, non religious, unitarians) are all below 24%.
In total, antichoicers represent 43% of the population, and the trend in the recent decade is decreasing.
And of this 43%, only 16% share the most extreme vew that is Palin’s (and lluraa’s) to forbid abortion in all cases (incl. rape, medical danger for the mother, etc…).
Lurid the bloodthirsty lunatic is pro-murder, pure and simple. She knows that making abortion illegal won’t stop it, so she’s not only supporting the death of thousands of fetuses, but also the women carrying them. This is okay to her, because having sex is icky to her, and anyone who would do that, without the approval of some religiotard fuckwit leader is EVILEVILEVIL and deserves to die. DIE SLUTS DIE!!!11111!!!!! is their mantra.
And then she’ll bitch and moan when all those orphanages spring up for all those kids born from mothers not ready or prepared or even capable of raising them. The funny thing about kids is that they can’t raise themselves, so they’ll drain away her tax dollars to support them. Or maybe she’ll be the typical pro-murder anti-abortionist and just let the little shits (her consideration of them–not mine) die. They’re just the kids of sluts, after all. Who cares about them? Why would anyone anti-abortion not have this sentiment? If you’re willing to kill living women, then you’re willing to let children die.
As I said to that lunatic Walton, long ago, words cannot convey my contempt for the likes of Lurid the bloodthirsty lunatic.
I think she would be qualified to play the part of the Anti-Christ in a Sci-Fi Channel original. Ernest Borgnine could play John McKane.
Another Palin poll
http://www.squidoo.com/sarah-palin-republican#module11258569
Please consider this a formal request to remove Lluraa from the ranks of commenters in good standing on the following grounds:
– Insipidity (abortion debate monomania)
– Stupidity (not here to listen to reason, just here to yap about her abortion position)
– Trolling (look how she derailed the present thread)
– Slagging (“how close minded and myopic you and your fellow commenters are”)
Lluraa
You know that there are a lot of us ex Mormon atheists on here don’t you? You don’t speak for Mormons. Pretty much every Mormon I know is voting for Obama, but they’re BYU professors rather than the Mormon truck driver class you seem to represent. Anyway, since you’re so afraid to study your own history, you might look at the history of Christianity and then if you found enough brains you might reject the myth you were born to, like many missionary members, bishops, and others who aren’t afraid to question already have. Use your brain, after all, isn’t it “The glory of God is intelligence?”
Alan
That’s it! Half the population think they’re voting for John McClane. All Obama has to do is change is name to Jason Bourne and we’ll have a real contest on our hands!
I don’t understand. Please explain.
———————-
See above: it has so many votes that it was probably freeped before.
———————-
Llauraa, would you please stop being a single-issue voter? I mean, think about it. McPain are for war. War. Where millions of people get killed.
Obvious answer is obvious… I’m amazed a poll on *PBS* of all places had any “yes” votes at all. Aren’t they supposed to be a bastion of bleeding-heart liberal bias?
This would explain why McCain/McClane selected Sarah Palin to his VP candidate. He is hoping people will confuse her with Michael Palin.
Yes 40%
No 58%
Not Sure 0%
That’s not one poll, that’s a page with a long list of polls!
Be careful to read all questions, though. To one of them, the sane answer is “yes”.
You can leave comments at the end. Already there are more and longer “con” comments than “pro”.
Sarah Palin makes John McCain impeachment proof. Would you remove John McCain from office to be stuck with Sarah Palin? If Bill Clinton had a Dick Cheney as VP, he would never had been impeached. It is all part of the Dan Quayle strategy…
This is pretty awesome. Since this poll crashing post was put up, there have been at least 200,000 new votes added to the poll for a massive +13% to a -19% swing, a swing in opinion that would give even GW Bush a run for his money. We rock.
here is a story about an RNC delegate, who was ripped off by his..ahem…”date”
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S581491.shtml?cat=1
“She is qualified to shoot a moose, though.”
A moose once bit my sister…
No realli!
Don’t feed the troll, children!
And palin… Damn, are you sure she has a vagina? I’m ashamed of her.
I just went to look, and it was “No” by a 19-point margin.
A Møøse once bit my sister …
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse
with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given
her by Svenge – her brother-in-law – an Oslo dentist and
star of many Norwegian møvies: “The Høt Hands of an Oslo
Dentist”, “Fillings of Passion”, “The Huge Mølars of Horst
Nordfink”.
We apologise for the fault in the
subtitles. Those responsible have been
sacked.
Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti…
We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those
responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked
have been sacked.
40% to 59%.
Another one:
If the presidential election were held today, who would get your vote?
http://www.kwtx.com/centraltexasvotes/
Nobody who approves or propagates such a record historical level of obvious lies, fudging, exaggerations and distortions in a campaign is qualified to be president or vice-president :
“CNN exposes the McPalin campaign’s strategy of deceit”
And her trip to Ireland, originally billed by her campaign as “a trip to a foreign country”, it was a refueling stop !
LLauraa? Hulloooooo? LLauraa?
Perhaps she’s out verbally abusing pregnant teens who are trying to enter women’s clinics.
39-60!
“And so goes Pharyngula. Scott posts something that totally lacks in any actual solutions, DaveScot likens the V.P. office to something that the wino on the corner is qualified to fill.
And here are all the rest of us, we ragged few, conscious of the staggering amount of ignorance in this world and doing whatever we can in our own small way to stem the tide. ”
Ummmm, I keep looking for “bright” political ideas coming from this crowd. “McCain sucks, Obama is better” has been the general talking point around here.
Not very impressive.
Answers? Bring ALL the military home from the world, let the companies failing fail and liquidate the debt. Let real estate crash so regular folks can afford a house again.
Suffer through the consequences of living on credit and recognize that you have to “make” wealth as a nation, you can’t simply declare you have it and then print it.
Lots of people get this. The US federal government is like that family who is using credit cards to pay minimum payments on credit cards. You KNOW what comes next, but they’ll keep buying new electronics and pretending their kids can actually play soccer…
She would have to find her way to one first.
Given the rubbish she has posted I would not trust her to know how to find her way to the lavatory, let alone a clinic.
There is another poll this week:
http://www.pbs.org/now/
It is on the bottom right. It has already been Pharyngulated (by yours truly) but if you wanted to add to the fun, there it is. The direct link is:
http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-436.html
Well, if she can wear a flightsuit like Emperor George the First (http://www.akguard.com/), then sure, she is qualified. Although I am not sure she has Cheney’s penchant for snacking on the blood of the innocent, but I’m sure she can manage to shoot someone in the face. That is a requirement for the VP, right?
Opinion registered.
“No” currently >60%!
So I just realized that I spelled McCain wrong…WTF? I must be tired…I need to proofread more.
Yes 40%
No 58%
Not Sure 0%
How the hell does a multiple choice poll with three answers add up to 98%?
Even if all three options were rounded down from a remainder of .49999…% that should still add up to a rounded down “99%” in the worst case, shouldn’t it?
Where did the other 1% go? Is it government math?
Oh, that’s it, they truncated instead of rounding. Bad PBS.
Yes 38%
No 61%
#102. If folks confuse her with Michael Palin, does that mean we should expect an inquisition?
Still 38% Y and 61% N.
I’m not surprised about Now; ever since Moyers left and David Brancaccio took over, it’s become a lot more “centrist”. Not even close to the same show.
If by “qualified to be Vice President”, you also mean “qualified to become President at a moment’s notice”, the answer would have to be a resounding Aw, Hell No.
It’s because you say things like this without any actual grasp of the consequences that no one listens to you Scott. Following such inane advice would enable vast despotic wars and cause global depression.
You made more sense when you didn’t say anything.
“It’s because you say things like this without any actual grasp of the consequences that no one listens to you Scott. Following such inane advice would enable vast despotic wars and cause global depression”.
And your evidence of this is?
If we left Yukosuka, for example, how would this turn to a “despotic war”?
You have obviously bought the farm where nothing grows sold to you by media companies owned by parent companies who profit directly from America’s military adventurism.
America is heading into a deep recession whether the feds do anything to slow it down or not. The last eight years have been floated by fake land values and people tapping into those fake assessments to buy goods and services.
Now that that “remedy” is over and housing crashes, there are no more “tricks” to float a harpooned whale. Borrowers will start walking away from debt in huge numbers (just wait for this winter, it won’t be pretty) including credit card debt, and there will be no more federal responses capable of resolving the inevitable.
Asia will simply start selling to itself.
The Mid-East will sell its oil to Asian markets.
America’s golf course economy will melt away like fat on a burning pig…
The US needs to “contract” to keep from simply popping. That means its military needs to come home and stop trying to police the world. It means its citizens need to start producing wealth and stop living off the production of others.
It means a reassessment and an honest and OPEN debate about the function of the Federal Reserve.
It means people who bought houses they couldn’t afford need to go back to renting.
It means the federal government needs to be replaced with new Congressmen and women who won’t keep doing the same crap that got us to this “We owe everyone” place.
It means people like you need to wise up and smell the feces on the roses…
Our brilliant foreign policy at work, all paid for by hard working Americans who pay taxes thinking they’ll get “services”…
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_faces_the_F-16s_it_supplied_Pakistan/articleshow/3482718.cms
It is time to start a write-in campaign for S. Palin. Get the people who support her and have doubts about McSame to write her in as President. (Of course we all know better – but I bet a bunch will fall for it).
Scott, “If we left Yukosuka“, would be a worthwhile answer if all the military was there.
As for your economic theories, they are platitudes. You might was well say “we need to manage our money better”.
Everyone wants better government. We’re the ones actually using our power of the vote to try and effect that change one election at a time.
Go be misanthropic as the ship sinks, elsewhere. We’re busy trying to slowly change the government.
I would be wondering what you all think of Obama’s qualifications are. I suspect it’s because he’s a DEM, and shares the closest thing to your beliefs. I actually think Joe Biden is more qualified than Obama…
As far as Palin, a great choice as I see the comments in here about her, I know you all are scared of her. Seems like your paying more attention to her now than McCain who is actually running for President.
Sure. Many people are uneasy, scared, appalled or even terrorized by Palin.
It is just common sense and survival. Most people fear rattlesnakes, cobras, charging grizzly bears, Moslem fanatics with IEDs and automatic rifles, and tornados.
As well as xian fanatics with IEDS and automatic rifles and maybe a nuke or two. Leave it to the Death Cultists to pick a candidate who makes Zombies, Ghouls, and Vampires look like puppy dogs and kitties.
Michael, there is something seriously psycho about you. A wannabe Inquistor or crusader at best, a serial killer at worst. Most people don’t think xianity exists to frighten and kill people while destroying whatever they can. Or many anyway. People like you and Palin are driving normal people out of the religion in droves.
I used to say that due to the fundies, xianity is becoming synomous with ignornant, lying, dumb bigots. That was 6 months ago. We have to start adding nihilistic, fascist destroyers to the list. Because you see, xianity is all about peace, love, and tolerance.
Ahh yes. The daily “let’s sink below the level of the opposition” thread.
Interesting development at this blog.
Palin BTW is dropping rapdily in the polls. People are taking a good look at what she really is and their survival instincts are kicking in.
Not everyone wants to live on a rubble heap, skinning a rat for dinner, and chanting “jesus loves us.”
I know the thread’s been well and truly derailed, but for those curious about the power of Pharyngula poll-fu:
No = 62%
Yes = 37%
(Still only 99%? Hm.)
“Go be misanthropic as the ship sinks, elsewhere. We’re busy trying to slowly change the government”.
Once again, I wonder who “we” is? And “change?” Please!
There have been good people in Washington trying to change Washington for quite sometime. Did you support them?
If you did you’d know who wrote this. Note the date…
March 27, 2006
Last week in this column I wrote of a perfect economic storm facing America, caused by a federal government that spends, borrows, and prints so much money that our dollars are eroding in value at an alarming rate. Year after year our federal government spends beyond its revenues, prints new money to pay its debts, and borrows hundreds of billions abroad in the form of Treasury obligations that someday must be paid. With too many dollars and debt instruments in circulation, and no political will in Washington to cut spending, we’ve created a monster. Our perceived prosperity depends on keeping the great debt and credit engine pumping, but the only way to attract new lenders to fuel the engine is higher interest rates. At some point one of two things must happen: either the party in Washington ends, or the supremacy of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency ends. It’s a sobering thought, but a choice must be made.
How did this happen? How did we get to such a state? The answer is found in the nature of politics itself. The truth is that many politicians and voters essentially believe in a free lunch. They believe in a free lunch because they don’t understand basic economics, and therefore assume government can spend us into prosperity. This is the fallacy that pervades American politics today.
62% NO–37% YES as of 1623 EDT
Scott from Oregon,
I neither know nor care who authored your quote @139, since it was stating something which should have been bleedin’ obvious to anyone with half a brain by then – and certainly was both to a democratic socialist like me, and to some Trotskyist fellow-participants in the local anti-war group. I actually agree with at least part of your prescription – returning all US troops home, closing all US foreign bases (and slashing military spending, which you don’t mention here but I guess would support). However, I’m curious as to why you think the Washington elite won’t do that. With the rest of your prescription, I can’t agree. Letting failing businesses fail was, basically, what the US government did in 1929 (when there were few US foreign bases and small armed forces). The result was the Great Depression, the rise of Hitler, and WW2.
If you hate John McCain as much as I do, you’ll love this vid– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mR1KR-uAZM
Let me get this straight… Letting US businesses fail caused Hitler to rise and WW2?
Well… OK… If you say so…
Let me just tell you flat out– IF the housing market doesn’t crash, Americans will not be able to afford to buy a house. It is that simple. Floating the system mostly helps overseas investors who bought the bundled loans. Your average American taxpayer, as a whole, will suffer more from this “bail-out” than is being let on.
The bail-out was 600 pages long, and written by the banking industry that screwed up the system by fraud and bad business practices to begin with. Hidden within it, more 4th Amendment rights were eroded and moral hazard ignored.
The US needs a good dose of reality and a severe CONTRACTION of its overseas empire and its domestic, hyper-valued economy.
Better to do it like pulling a band-aid, then to make the process long and painful.
Scott from Oregon@
“Let me get this straight… Letting US businesses fail caused Hitler to rise and WW2?”
Er… yes. The Wall Street Crash of 1929 had global effects: depression throughout the industrialised world, except the USSR. In Germany the Nazis won 2.8% of the vote in the 1928 election. The slump which began with the Wall Street Crash threw millions out of work in Germany (and the rest of Europe, Japan, etc.) as trade with the US collapsed. Hitler rose to power by blaming the slump on Jewish financiers and foreign enemies. Without the slump, it is unlikely he would ever have come to power. No Hitler in power, no holocaust, very probably no WW2, no Soviet empire in eastern Europe. Of course, letting the US firms collapse was not a sufficient cause of Hitler’s rise and WW2. However, if the US government of the time had intervened successfully enough to considerably reduce the scale of the global slump, those horrors very probably would not have happened. On the current occasion, cutting military spending, and doing something useful with the money instead is certainly a central part of the solution I’d propose to the USA’s problems, but right now, the Bush regime are right to think they have to keep the financial show on the road. If they had let AIG fail, or Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it would probably have become impossible, almost overnight, to borrow money. Millions thrown out of work, as in the 1930s. Malnutrition in what are now rich countries – and starvation in what are already poor ones. Who knows what secondary effects in five or ten years’ time. You are quite right that the current Washington system is rotten and has to go – but we have to survive the process of getting rid of it.
That’s a PBS poll!?! I can’t believe they’re stooping to this unscientific level! NOW of all programs…
And you can vote Chicago-style: Often and frequently…
It’s still 62% No and 37% Yes.
Your average American taxpayer, as a whole, will suffer more from this “bail-out” than is being let on.
funny, but it looks rather like the whole S and L bailout from the late 80’s…
deja vu.
People failed to learn the lessons from that, completely.
BTW, wasn’t McCain involved with the Keating 5?
why, yes, yes he was:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/24/politics/main3964240.shtml?source=RSSattr=Politics_3964240
I have to admit, this round is hitting a lot closer to the vest than the boondoggle from the 80’s did.
my personal finances have been set back months already.
*grrr*
fucking greedy morons.
“”I have to admit, this round is hitting a lot closer to the vest than the boondoggle from the 80’s did.””
Just wait until the next round, when all of those people who google the new value of their houses and realize they have not only no equity, but they are 80 grand or something in the hole on their motgage. Most of these people will simply walk away and go rent one of the many avalable houses sitting empty right about now…
This hasn’t happened to the degree it is going to, but as more people realize they are below sea level and see others walking, it will happen.
And right now, the tax payers are on the hook for this, as foreign investors and “those that be” made sure of it by the bail-out (that is supposedly, cough cough… for the home owner…)
Once this ball starts rolling and these people’s credit scores plummet, their credit card payments will go to “red” and they’ll bail on those too.
Can you all say “weeeeeeeeeeeeee!”??
Once credit dries up, the US “consumer” economy will have nothing to drive it, and it will contract as a matter of gravity anyway…
You bunch of tards cooking a poll Chicago-style. Its going to be fun to hear you all whine come Nov. 4th.
The biggest problems I see with these bailouts, is not the bailouts per se, but the fact that the treasury (ie the taxpayer) is paying something to the shareholders.
These companies were technically bankrupt. Normally, shareholders lose everything in ths case. They shouldn’t have received a cent.
But the government felt it had to give them something. Why ?
That’s the basic problem with this government, they just don’t realise how bad the situation is. Between the nonsensical miltary expenditure and the war, the interventons to artificially prop up the market ths year, the stimulus package which had no effect whatsoever apart from delaying the reality of the worst recession in 50 years, the bailouts, and the usual yearly deficit, it’s going to be more than $1 trillion that’s going to be added to last year’s deficit. That’s $10,000 per household, only in one year. Normally, that means that on average, next year, American households are going to have to make a cheque of that average amount, just to balance the defcit back to where it was in 2007 (Which was already crazy high). Meanwhile McCain is speaking of tax cuts, are they serious ? And Obama, I guarantee you there will be no tax cuts for the poor and middle classes, once he looks at the books. And if that $ 1 trillion has to be paid by the top 5% richest households only, well that will mean a cheque of $200 K each next year.
Meanwhile, Bush and co, who really don’t care anymore about how disastrous a situation they leave to the next admin, feel they need to grant such largesse and pay a few $10s billion extra for these poor shareholders.
It’s like someone who has a huge debt, and keeps spending as if he were still rich, singing along, maybe a Chinese man will give me some money.
Or the fable de la Fontaine, la cigale et la fourmi, the grasshopper and the ant ;
A grasshopper gay
Sang the summer away,
And found herself poor
By the winter’s first roar.
Of meat or of bread,
Not a morsel she had!
So a-begging she went,
To her neighbour the ant,
For the loan of some wheat,
Which would serve her to eat,
Till the season came round.
“I will pay you,” she saith,
“On an animal’s faith,
Double weight in the pound
Ere the harvest be bound.”
The ant is a friend
(And here she might mend)
Little given to lend.
“How spent you the summer?”
Quoth she, looking shame
At the borrowing dame.
“Night and day to each comer
I sang, if you please.”
“You sang! I’m at ease;
For ’tis plain at a glance,
Now, ma’am, you must dance.”
And this is just the begining. The decline of the American empire is now unstoppable.
Meanwhile, McCain thinks the economic fundamentals are strong.
This is wrong on two fronts. One, the only way to attract lenders is not through interest rates. Stability plays a larger role as too many lenders have recently learned.
And two, the economy is not reliant simply upon lenders, though it can fail when they go unsupervised for too long.
Lastly, you’ve done little but again trumpet platitudes. Spending is too high while income is too low. NO SHIT. I think the reason for your misanthropy is your seeming agreement in this idea that ” The truth is that many politicians and voters essentially believe in a free lunch”, except you exchange “many” for “all”.
You can’t fathom any liberal being able to say the same about a broken politics and their wish to change that. But frankly your opinion is worthless. You don’t vote, organize, or campaign.
negentropyeater@148:
Nope, the biggest problem is that the highly qualified executives responsible for it all will be allowed to walk away with anything at all from the shambles they made. They should be summarily fired by the corporate boards, fined into the poorhouse, and ridiculed mercilessly. As an example to others, of course — besides greed, fear is the only motivator a Republican responds to.
Currently 40% Yes to 59% No.
Now yer talkin.
If it weren’t for that whole second-in-line-to-a-72-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-is-already-a-couple-bricks-short, I’d say Sarah is quite qualified. She’s 35 and has arguably lived in the country for 14 years. It’s not like the VP does anything (presiding over the Senate isn’t exactly brain surgery).
But I’m a faithful PZ-bot. I voted no.
http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709
“”The Real Culprits In This Meltdown
By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 4:20 PM PT
Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it’s dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.””
Once again, “unintended consequences”…
It’s like a bad movie…
MICHAEL Palin is better-qualified.
The Republicans will win by staging a fake assassination attempt on Sarah just before the election.
How surprised would you really be?
“Drill, baby, drill!”
The party of overenthusiastic dentists.
Melior,
Well that of course, and btw both the Obama and McCain campaign and the media have picked on that one. But that’s not the biggest problem by far, we’re talking a few tens of millions, it’s what gets people all reved up, but meanwhile, what really will cost the taxpayer a lot, is the completely gratuitious bail out of the shareholders of these companies, and there we’re talking tens of billions. And that one, nobody wants to talk about ?
The government could have very well nationalised these companies wthout paying a dime to the shareholders, as these companies were bankrupt.
So why did they do it ?
Still 61% No 38% yes
The Republicans will win by staging a fake assassination attempt on Sarah just before the election. – SoMG
Followed by a real one on McCain just after?
IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST
— bumper sticker
Do you have the term “World Economy Crisis” in English? Because in German we do: Weltwirtschaftskrise.
Hitler won the 1932 elections because he promised jobs — not just that, but he sold himself as “our last hope”: these are the actual words of a campaign ad that is nowadays found in all history schoolbooks that treat the 20th century.
For the third time: how did a PBS poll get 300,000 votes before it was even mentioned on Pharyngula? It must have been freeped before it got pharyngulated.
Republicans tend to be extremely bad losers.
Because that would be SOCIALISM!!!1! GASP!!1
Because that would be SOCIALISM!!!1! GASP!!
Yes. It would be.
http://www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com/news/
It is always the ones labeled “kook” isn’t it? Again, note the prescience BY NOTING THE DATE–
“””Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
July 16, 2002
Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce the Free Housing Market Enhancement Act. This legislation restores a free market in housing by repealing special privileges for housing-related government sponsored enterprises (GSEs). These entities are the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie), the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie), and the National Home Loan Bank Board (HLBB). According to the Congressional Budget Office, the housing-related GSEs received $13.6 billion worth of indirect federal subsidies in fiscal year 2000 alone.
One of the major government privileges granted these GSEs is a line of credit to the United States Treasury. According to some estimates, the line of credit may be worth over $2 billion. This explicit promise by the Treasury to bail out these GSEs in times of economic difficulty helps them attract investors who are willing to settle for lower yields than they would demand in the absence of the subsidy. Thus, the line of credit distorts the allocation of capital. More importantly, the line of credit is a promise on behalf of the government to engage in a massive unconstitutional and immoral income transfer from working Americans to holders of GSE debt.
The Free Housing Market Enhancement Act also repeals the explicit grant of legal authority given to the Federal Reserve to purchase the debt of housing-related GSEs. GSEs are the only institutions besides the United States Treasury granted explicit statutory authority to monetize their debt through the Federal Reserve. This provision gives the GSEs a source of liquidity unavailable to their competitors.
Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges of Fannie, Freddie, and HLBB have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.
However, despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policies of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.
Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts.
No less an authority than Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has expressed concern that government subsidies provided to the GSEs make investors underestimate the risk of investing in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac….”””
Well what they have done in practice can also be called Socialism. Well, a very peculiar type of Socialism, one that is reserved for the rich, the well connected, and Wall Street, where profits are privatised and losses are socialized.
Whether it’s Socialism or not isn’t relevant. The government had to intervene, because the risks not to were far greater, but they could have done so in a much less costly manner for the taxpayer.
Both in the cases of the GSEs and AIG ,there was absolutely no reason (apart from the Bush administration long record of cronysm) not to fully wipe out the common and preferred shareholders – as they fully deserved. Instead, they will only be diluted and continue to hold 20% ownership, with no justification.
And if one looks to other details of these bailouts, it’s more of the same, deeply flawed and beautiful examples of an administration that is more preoccupied with saving a few rich equity holders, than with systemic rsks on the economy and consequences for the tax payer or the deficit.