Does this count as child abuse yet? Some Muslims are distributing children’s DVDs with this wholesome message:
The first video shows an Arab woman playing with her two children before leaving her home with dynamite tucked into her dress.
She is approached by uniformed soldiers and the camera pauses on her thoughtful expression before a large explosion blazes across the screen.
After finding out about the suicide on television, her small daughter finds a stick of dynamite in her mother’s wardrobe and turns to the camera with the subtitles: “My love will not be by words. I will follow my mother’s steps.”
You can inculcate some mighty fine, high quality hate if you start ’em young enough.
But Islam is a religion of peace.
Yuck yuck yuck. Does anyone know why Allah so hates his believers that he forces them to live in ignorance and fear?
For a Christian perspective on rearing children skim through Father Jack Hyles’s manual on child rearing:
http://www.jackhyles.com/CHILDREN.htm
Alas, Father Jack is with Jesus now. but it might be relevant to note that he, and his son, were both apparently sexually incontinent, as well as simply FUBAR
Darwin Award material
Especially when you blend it with the self-righteousness of the religious.
Ah, the old favourite:
“Does my bomb look big in this?”
AH yes, the Religion of Peace (TM) strikes again.
Don’t anyone try to defend them using the bag of tricks most famously wielded by that obfuscationist idiot Scott Atran. These people are so completely warped by their religious beliefs that it’s absurd to try to separate their actions into Islam-motivated and non-Islam-motivated.
The article does not mention (or I didn’t see it) that there is a reference to religion. Of course it is very likely that such a DVD with an ‘arabic-looking mother’ in combination with suicide bombings comes from fundamentalist muslims, but I thought a cautionary note might be appropriate before going into full attack mode.
How about just religion motivated. A certain brand of religion, but religion fueled idiocy none the less.
Well, maybe it’s Dora the Exploder, then.
Don Quixote @ 8:43 (#8):
Whether it’s religiously motivated or not, I find it difficult to describe that kind of indoctrination as anything other than child abuse.
I can easily see America’s Christians heading down a similar path as their belief in being “persecuted” become more and more widespread.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant to say: the minds of these people are so utterly overwhelmed by Islam that it’s simply ridiculous to do what Atran does and argue, “This thing they do, suicide bombing, is not motivated by religion.” But naturally we can say with confidence that their religion, which has so warped them in the first place, is heavily to blame for much of their appalling behaviour.
When children get to a certain age they start to question all the crap their parents told them. Let’s hope this works for these children. (When my mother was seven, she went to school one day and, as usual, greeted her teacher with “Heil Hitler”. But that day – presumably May 8 or 9, 1945 – she was told that she was never supposed to say that ever again. And since then she has never trusted authority.)
Dying for the Emperor was once in vogue in Japan and held up to youngsters as something to emulate. Kamakazes come to mind in that regard. But we don’t see them now, for obvious reasons. So let’s just say that people will say and do the damnedest things at times, for a variety of reasons, which have to do with defending one’s perceived tribe.
@spencer #11
I would not want to contradict you on this one.
I just observed the facts and compared them with the reactions.
Certainly I did not intend to make a judgement about the videos with my comment but I agree with you and I would find such an indoctrination indeed abhorrent.
Child abuse? That’s a fucking crime against humanity.
Remember the Jesuit boast -“Give me the child, and I will give you the man”.
I’m not trying to be a demagogue here, but I think this is a good place to make this important point: we need watch out for people like Atran. They are intellectual bullies with political axes to grind. It doesn’t matter how long Atran spends fighting for the data — he’s already made up his mind, and all he’s doing is trying to verify his dogmatic preconceptions. But this provides him with an extremely potent weapon. The work he does, and the sheer quantity of irrelevant data he can cite, contrive to conjure up an illusion of scientific authority.
The data he generally refers to blatantly has little to do with the principle he tries to wrest from them. (For example, he’s been known to attempt to combat the proposition that religion can be dangerous with an obscure study on “scapegoating”.) He tries to bully people around, scoffing at them and rubbishing their opinions as unfounded, when in reality his own opinion is at least equally unfounded — it’s just that he has a political bee in his bonnet and has gone through the trouble of collecting irrelevant data to help him do his trickery.
Sometimes its difficult to argue with the idea that religion poisons everything it touches.
Well — death IS the ultimate peace. Maybe that’s what they mean. Kill everything, and then everything will be peaceful?
At the same time, our troops in Iraq are leaving valuables in the open to attract ragpickers. The goods include weapons or ammunition, which our people use as a justification for having a sniper keep watch over the bait. A little kid comes along, believing he’s found a windfall, and BAM — a .50 Browning hardball blows a hole through him.
These are our tax dollars hard at work.
Please tell me who, exactly, is crazy here?
Syllogism:
Someone purportedly religious makes DVD
DVD advocates despicable acts
Religion=Child Abuse
Ah yes. Proof positive of the moral superiority of atheists at last. Logical consistency – not so much.
Oh god, this makes me feel sick.
And not only because of the message, as inhumane and nightmarish as it is, or the possibility it purports.
It also makes me feel sick because it will have the exact wrong effect: instead of people being horrified at the product of a small and deeply zealous group, ALL Muslims will be painted as being indoctrinated at birth for this kind of martyrdom.
Think of it as evolution in action.
“Please tell me who, exactly, is crazy here?”
Um, how about both sides?
Just because what Bob did is wrong doesn’t mean that what John does in response to this is by default right. Or justified.
It IS a religion of peace in that the only justifiable war is one that protects the Muslim community. They see neocolonialism and “nation building,” as an attack on the Muslim community. In a sense, they’re right. But it doesn’t change the fact that religion is the driving force for their actions.
They also are supposed to be against sneak attacks. They justify these bombings by saying that some cryptic warning is always issued prior to such an event.
Very good point, makes one suspiscious of this actually being a plant to fuel hatred of Islam.
I see a mixed message about families here. Mom did not love her children enough to not kill herself and a couple of guards at the low end of a power structure (In other words, her actions does nothing to change the power structure.), thus leaving the care of the children to the widower and other (female) family members. Yet the daughter is so supposed to love her mom that she will follow in her footsteps in committing the same futile act.
These are the people Becky Fischer of “Jesus Camp” fame is trying to emulate.
Globle Warren Terrism, could you give a cite for that please?
While we’re on the subject of religious indoctrination shows for children in the ME, don’t forget to add Farfour the Muslim mouse to the list. I believe he sees air time in Iran and is constantly going on about how evil Israel is, the oppression of Muslims, etc.
It’s all depraved mistreatment of children, and depraved misuse of human effort on the part of the adults that actually make time to concoct such intellectual filth. Jesus Camp is another example, arguably as harsh in that it indoctrinates children to be warriors for Christ, to make war in his name and in the name of American exceptionalism. The Muslim version of this is just a touch more direct in its suggestion.
We need to get rid of the “islam = peace” meme that is going around and replace it with a more accurate translation.
“Islam” means, literally, “cowering in abject terror”. And “muslim” means, literally, “one who cowers in abject terror”. As in: men cowering in abject terror before god, women cowering in abject terror before men and non-believers cowering in abject terror before believers.
Nobody drew that conclusion.
Or that one.
If you can support your charge of inconsistency only by making stuff up, maybe you should consider the integrity of your position.
Given the lack of information surrounding this report, and the fact that the report is found on Metro.co.uk, a publication of less than laudatory journalistic reputation (sub-tabloid at best), I’d hesitate to take it as hard fact.
Of course, if it is hard fact, it’s utterly reprehensible, and I’d cut no slack on that front. But I doubt we’ll see a follow-up to this story, because I suspect it’s (at worst) utterly fake, or (more likely) hugely overstated. We’ll just have to wait and see.
I would pause a bit before concluding that this DVD necessarily represents a fringe element.
We would certainly like to believe that most people in the world believe as we do – that the murder of innocents by terrorism is despicable.
But, I think that that is NOT how people in all places in the world believe.
Polls in Palestinian neighborhoods, for example, show the vast majority of people there support Hamas and its terrorist actions.
What do we really know about the views of Muslims around the world? How much data is there, and where was it collected?
We can assume the best, but the results from at least Palestinian areas are really surprising and very troubling indeed.
@ AJS #32
Islam does not literally mean “cowering in abject terror.” It literally means “submission.” As in submission to god and that’s about the only submission it refers to. They have no love for us atheists, of course, but they just think we’re going to hell like every other religion. The Quran (while conflicting on the subject) is actually kinder to women than the Bible is.
To clarify my statement: “They have no love for us atheists, of course, but they just think we’re going to hell like every other religion.”
I should have said, “just like every other religion, they think we’re going to hell.”
Martin M., if you follow this blog, surely you realize that the context of this post is the “religion is child abuse” meme of a few posts back. PZ also made the point that the alledged perps were Muslims. Given those facts, and the fact that most of PZ’s posts are devoted to his obsessive hatred of religion, I think my “syllogism” is a perfectly reasonable satire of the post’s intent. YMMV.
Of course it is child abuse (if it is true), but there is no mention of Muslims or religion in the article. Suicide bombing is primarily a political act, though religion is used as a rationalization for ending one’s life. An excellent treatment of the subject is the movie Paradise Now, an academy award nominee for best foreign film.
I’m not trying to be a demagogue here
Liar.
but I think this is a good place to make this important point: we need watch out for people like Atran. They are intellectual bullies with political axes to grind.
What a hypocrite. Your whole purpose in life is to defend Israeli state policy, if necessary by attacking those who would even dare to mention it.
@ Martin M. #38
Nobody said religion is child abuse. Forcing a child into your religion is child abuse. That is what PZ and others are arguing. If the child enters into a particular faith all by themselves, then no, religion is not child abuse.
Polls in Palestinian neighborhoods, for example, show the vast majority of people there support Hamas and its terrorist actions.
What do we really know about the views of Muslims around the world?
Are you aware that not all Palestinians are Muslims? Are you aware that not all Arabs (which is what this article referred to) are Muslims?
How many people in Israeli neighborhoods support the IDF and its terrorist actions? How many people in U.S. neighborhoods “support the troops” in their terrorist actions?
Sorry again. I meant “@ CapitalistImperialistPig #38”
Paul Raven has expressed his concern about the source of this anti-Muslim DVD.
All theories are not only permitted but required in hypothetical deductive science.
PZ, this the third blatant anti-Muslim post that has appeared on your site.
As objective scientists we are charged with checking out its origin.
In culture of dis-information, mis-information, and framing geniuses everywhere; it is mandatory to consider alternative hypotheses for the source of the DVD.
Israeli/Zionist peeyar people routinely dispense anti-Muslim propaganda such as this to the media.
Anti-Muslimism is no different than anti-Semitism.
Polls in Palestinian neighborhoods, for example, show the vast majority of people there support Hamas and its terrorist actions.
For some idea of why that might be (explaining, not condoning), see Jimmy Carter’s book — which is about apartheid in Palestine, not Israel, contrary to his raving critics like Alan Dershowitz and our own SLC. Here an interesting article that is highly critical of Carter’s use of the term “apartheid” but admits it applies, something that most Americans are completely ignorant of, having been taken in by the Bushian drivel about a “war on terror” and a “clash of civilizations”:
Has anyone else seen this movie? It makes similar claims about child indoctrination. For all I know, the claims may even be true — but that doesn’t mean there isn’t also some manipulation on the part of those publicising them.
When confronted with conflicting claims about the world, scientists, by definition, must ask some basic and mandatory questions.
1 Are the claims true or false?
2 What operations did you perform to arrive at your conclusions about the conflicting claims.
3 What speaks for your position and what speaks against it?
When I read much of the posting on PZ’s science website, I routinely observe the most childish un-scientific passions.
Well, the BBC are also running with it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7149902.stm
Gerard @44. This is not the third anti-muslim piece, this is one of many anti-religion pieces. I don’t discriminate.
Skepticism about any claim is mandatory in science.
Where is the axiomatic scientific skepticism about this very questionable and unsubstantiated anti-Muslim DVD?
When I read much of the posting on PZ’s science website, I routinely observe the most childish un-scientific passions.
*sniff, sniff* It doesn’t likes us. :(
Science is the attempt to scrutinize and discriminate – between truth and falsehood.
Millions of innocent people dying as a result of expensive propaganda advancing any and every political agenda is as serious an issue as I know.
Re truth machine
Well, our old Israel bashing friend truth machine once again links to an article in the left wing Israel hating publication Haaretz for an article supporting antisemite James Earl scumbag Carter. Of course, in slamming Alan Dershowitz, he doesn’t bother to inform the readers that Dershowitz is a former friend and supporter of schmuck Carter.
Religion is not nearly as important motivator in suicide bombing than it is usually portrayed. Many, if not most Palestinians suicide bombers were more or less secular. The typical stereotype of suicide bomber as an indoctrinated dumb young boy who is only interested in getting paradise to screw virgins is almost racist. One can imagine that a woman suicide bomber, a mother who has lost her child and husband in Israeli attacks kills herself only revenge in mind.
Before the Iraq War most (including the first) suicide bombings were conducted by Tamil Tigers who can hardly be described as fanatic Muslims. The primary motivation behind suicide bombing is usually political. Typically suicide bombings are conducted either against foreign occupiers or against central government by separatists, as can be seen in Israel/Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and so on.
There’s a book written about this, unfortunately I can’t recall the author or the name of the book.
This movie has been around on the Intertubes for many months now. I first saw it early this year.
PZ, as you well know, trained peeyar operatives are plying their “skills” everywhere in our propagandized world.
Many of us battled with you against peeyar yuppies, Nisbet and Mooney, who openly try to propagandize science.
Your statement above about inculcating “high quality hate” is precisely what religious fundamentalists/fanatics AND political propagandists want to achieve.
The probabilty that the DVD is a another typical propaganda ploy, is surely worthy of a scientist’s attention.
Hamas’ intellectual property theft of an American icon: Mickey Mouse clone “Farfour” murdered by a “Jew.”
Anti-Muslimism is no different than anti-Semitism.
No.
Religion and ethnicity are not intrinsically linked.
Secular Jews exist.
Secular Muslims do not.
#56:
“The probabilty that the DVD is a another typical propaganda ploy, is surely worthy of a scientist’s attention.”
The problem with your argument, as I see it, Gerald, is that this DVD is not inconsistent with documented observations that show militant Muslim indoctrination to the very young.
Or do you feel that the multiple reports of antisemitic and antiWestern inculcation at madrases are also merely propaganda ploys?
Whether you like it or not, militant Islam has a thirty year plus history of demonstrating itself through the use of terrorist bombings.
And it appears that militant Islam is growing, no doubt thanks to Bush’s tragic policies.
You can inculcate some mighty fine, high quality hate if you start ’em young enough.
Isn’t that the whole point of Christian Day Camps?
If the Muslim maid murdered the elderly spinster with a silver crucifix, we don’t want to convict the Christian gardener just because the gardener is a fundamentalist bible thumping Christian.
Until the authenticity and veracity of the DVD can be established, I cannot imagine how any scientist can respond with any confidence on such a clearly incendiary presentation.
I am very chagrined that PZ published it as it stands.
I have to take issue with MANY of the conclusions being drawn here. There are well upwards of a billion Muslims in the world, most of whom do not believe in suicide bombing or encourage their children to do so. So how can you possibly conclude that suicide bombing is the result of “religion”? The kind of indoctrination leading to the promotion of these beliefs is much more grounded in psychology and emotional dependency; it is not drawn prima facie from religious texts. *Religious belief* is not the problem, here.
Not to mention that the story, with almost no identifying details, lacks any kind of credibility at all. Who made the DVD? How was it distributed? Where was it on sale? None of this is evident.
@ 54:
You are right that suicide bombings are not the creation of religious radicals. Political bombings have been a reality for hundreds of years, perhaps even preceding Guy Fawkes’ failed attempt. Kamikazis were suicide bombers, though they performed within the confines of military strategy ostensibly in defense/offense initiated by their leaders. One could argue they were acting within a greater religious frame created by Japanese society and the divine imperial nature Tojo commanded.
But such bombings have been more or less adopted as a political tool employed by religious forces (joining the two), be they Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, Northern Ireland, the ME, or Timothy McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers here. Additionally, while they do not use bombs, disgruntled children of religious families commit similar acts using othher weapons like guns. Yet we do not calls these acts terrorism, most likely for a number of socio-centric reasons.
As far as your Palestinian mother example is concerned, it’s not a particularly good example. First, if a mother is angered by the murder of her child, would we not perhaps see similar acts committed elsewhere? How do we know the mother doesn’t already have a religious affiliation prior to the tragedy? Maybe she does and such an event is enough to drive her into the ideological clutches of the very people she may have otherwise not identified with. Also, mothers have unique perspectives on the lives of others in that though they may have lost their child, would not wish the same, let alone wish to commit the same act, on another’s child.
Anything’s possible, but if religion is not a motivator, why do we not see a range of killings by people explicitly idenitfying themselves as anti-religion or anti-theist? Also, the section of the world’s population that identifies itself as having some sort of religion reduces the likelihood that religion would not be involved on some level in motivating someone to give their life in the violent destruction of others’.
Well, our old Israel bashing friend truth machine once again links to an article in the left wing Israel hating publication Haaretz for an article supporting antisemite James Earl scumbag Carter
SLC once again demonstrates to absolutely everyone that he’s a certified nut job. Bypassing all insanity, it might be worth noting, for those not aware, that Haaretz is Israel’s oldest daily newspaper.
he doesn’t bother to inform the readers that Dershowitz is a former friend and supporter of schmuck Carter.
Nor did I mention his show size, equally irrelevant.
saurabh, I was hoping for your moderate, intelligent, and objective response to a very important but very unsettled issue.
Religion and ethnicity are not intrinsically linked.
So why did PZ, among others, substitute “Muslim” for “Arab”?
saurabh, I was hoping for your moderate, intelligent, and objective response to a very important but very unsettled issue.
Posted by: gerald spezio | December 19, 2007 3:19 PM
Beware: Spezio is a troll. If you show any disagreement with PZ, he’ll pretend to be your friend.
@58 Brownian:
I don´t know where you live, but in my old neighbourhood (Berlin, Germany) a good proportion of muslims (mostly migrants of turkish origin) were indeed muslims by name only, that is secular. Speaking of Turkey, you can bet your boots that the generals, who are muslims by name, will rather overthrow the government than have it turned into a theocracy (Ever heard of Mustafa Kemal a.k.a Atatürk?). And if you look at the Kurds, you´ll see an even more obvious secular muslim population.
Jerry, why did not your head explode when you wrote this. That statement is so wrong in so many ways.
First of all. being a Muslim is purely a religion. Being a Jew can be cultural, religious or a combination of the two. An atheist Muslim is a contradiction. An atheist Jew is very common. (And hated by the Orthodox Jews.) That statement of yours is categorically wrong.
Second of all, there are huge segments of the Muslim world that are anti-Semitic. Right now arabic translations of “The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion” is a huge seller. Would that not make these Muslims anti-Muslim?
truth machine, Israel bashing but not Muslim/Arab bashing?
#63:
“Not to mention that the story, with almost no identifying details, lacks any kind of credibility at all. Who made the DVD? How was it distributed? Where was it on sale? None of this is evident.”
Info is coming in. purportedly it was “Made in Egypt” and was for sale at the Abrar Book shop in Leeds and mention was made by an official that it was also for sale at a local Mosque.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23428447-details/British%20children%20targeted%20with%20terror%20sing-along%20DVD%20for%20would-be%20suicide%20bombers/article.do?expand=true#StartComments
There are millions of Zionists who are anti-Muslim.
There are millions of Christians who are anti-Semitic.
There are millions of Caucasians who are anti-black.
…millions of …Italians who are anti-Sicilian …
That’s the most slimy and despicable bit of misrepresentative scumbaggery I’ve seen this week. I said absolutely nothing about Israel, and I didn’t even allude to anything political.
Gingerbaker’s link makes it clear that the DVD references Islam numerous times (although admittedly the earlier reports did not have that information).
(So GB, is that like “making cookies” or like “Cream’s drummer”?)
Gingerbaker, how in the name of objective science can you be sure that this is NOT Israeli/Zionist propaganda?
It is almost too slick.
#19: He tries to bully people around, scoffing at them and rubbishing their opinions as unfounded, when in reality his own opinion is at least equally unfounded
That sounds like standard operating procedure for gerneral political discourse. In the UK (at least in the north) we used to call that “all mouth and trousers” — I think that phrase was coined with an uncanny foreknowledge of Bill O’Reilly, but I digress…
That’s the most slimy and despicable bit of misrepresentative scumbaggery I’ve seen this week. I said absolutely nothing about Israel, and I didn’t even allude to anything political.
Methinks thou doth protest too much … without in any way rebutting my statement. But perhaps I’ve confused you with someone else … care to state your views on Israel and its policies?
Brownian: secular Muslims exist. Like PJ O’Rourke said, the way to tell the difference between Croats, Serbs and Muslims in Bosnia was that the Croats didn’t go to Mass, the Serbs didn’t go to Orthodox services and the Muslims didn’t pray five times a day facing Mecca. Of course the war changed that somewhat, but secular Muslims certainly exist.
In the years I knew my grandfather I never saw him set foot inside a mosque. He drank alcohol (his father had a bar), he provided no religious indoctrination for his children (an uncle used to take my father to mosque when he was very young, an aunt took them to church and had them baptised when they were older). He was picky about the meat he would eat, but it had nothing to do with halal except that he didn’t eat pork. Back home I knew lots of people who considered themselves Muslim but drank alcohol, danced in the street (in costume, no less) for Carnival, and didn’t go to mosque. There most definitely are secular Muslims.
#19: “He tries to bully people around, scoffing at them and rubbishing their opinions as unfounded, when in reality his own opinion is at least equally unfounded”
That sounds like standard operating procedure for gerneral political discourse.
Sounds to me like hypocrisy. Isn’t that exactly what he did, scoffing at Atran and rubbishing his opinions as unfounded, without providing any foundation for his claims?
Nobody,including me,has been able to advance any definitive evidence that the clearly propagandistic DVD is either true or false.
Aren’t we, as scientists, forced by the lack of evidence to suspend our judgment about the veracity of the DVD?
There isn’t any adequate evidence to convict anybody about anything, period.
Well at least she’s taking out uniformed soldiers and therefore legitimate military targets.
Re truth machine
Mr. truth machine lack sufficient intelligence to carry Prof Dershowitz’ briefcase.
Ooooo… BURN. What is this? Junior High?
Dershowitz couldn’t carry Carter’s Nobel prize, punk.
PZ; as far as I know, science always tries to inculcate high quality objectivity in opposition to low quality blind subjectivity and hateful prejudice.
This specific post does not advance the noble principles of objective science.
Thank you for your “concern”, move along.
gerald, I think we all got the point the first twelve times you stated it. You can probably wait to see if PZ responds before bothering to say it again.
All I see is little girls in headscarves edging away and murmuring “No, not for me, thanks” and running like hell.
This persistent idea that Moslems become terrorists or suicide bombers cause somebody talked them into it, or they saw a film, is ridiculous.
“[W]ithout in any way rebutting my statement”? Just what the hell are you talking about? You’ve accused me of defending “Israeli state policy”, even though I haven’t so much as vaguely mentioned it, and now you ask me to rebut your unreasonable claim.
In fact, I don’t have any opinions worth mentioning on Israeli state policy. I simply don’t know enough about the politics.
I can explain in detail why I think he’s wrong, but it’s not my intention to do that here. It would take too long, and this topic is not about Scott Atran (we’re well into a digression already). If you want to see where I’m coming from, consult the exchange between Harris and Atran on Edge. I’m almost wholly in agreement with Harris.
I was trying to draw attention to a point I feel needs to be taken seriously. People will thus read my post, and maybe it will resonate with some of them. I have no desire to spend time debating this. (Don’t confuse that with not having evidence.)
#75:
“(So GB, is that like “making cookies” or like “Cream’s drummer”?)”
It’s like Cream’s marvelously talented drummer (not me – I fall off the throne (stool) during the tricky bits) AND making ginger cheesecake ( my stepfather’s specialty). :D
#76:
“Gingerbaker, how in the name of objective science can you be sure that this is NOT Israeli/Zionist propaganda?
It is almost too slick.
Well, first of all, there are plenty of people out there happy to create misleading propaganda like this DVD. What makes YOU think it is “Israeli/Zionist”? Is that your slip showing? “D
Secondly, I just did a small search based on my previous rather incisive and pithy question – what kind of data is out there looking at the acceptance of militant Islam?
According to the Pew Global Attitudes Project, acceptance of terrorist bombing in certain countries is shockingly and disturbingly high.
While their table is titled “Support for Suicide Bombing Declines”, the data within is not all positive, and the absolute number of people in Jordan, Lebanon,Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, and Morocco who feel suicide bombing is “Never Justified” is horrifyingly low.
In other words, there are a hell of a lot more folks around the world who support terrorism than those of us in civilized society might imagine.
See here:
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I’m disappointed — I was hoping we had a major music celebrity in our midst!
(You could make up for that disappointment by giving us all ginger cheesecake, by the way…just a hint.)
Sounds like an example of “Evolution in Action” to me – certainly that woman’s genes aren’t going to pass on for long!
Re steve_c
Gee, James Earl Carter won a Nobel Peace Prize so therefore that makes him a better man then Alan Dershowitz. Right along with Yasir Arafat and Henry Kissinger. Very appropriate company for s***head Carter.
Hey SLC.
When are you going to get around to posting some credible evidence of President Carters antisemitism.
All I know is that religion has screwed people up majorly, and that if religion didn’t exist, uh, people would have to, uh,…invent it…er…Well, I guess that’s what happened.
More importantly, Ginger, I would like that ginger-cheesecake recipe, too, if it’s not “sekrit fambly recipee”…Please, pretty please…
I think SLC has a crush on Jimmy Carter! *giggle*
Ginger, I would like that ginger-cheesecake recipe, too
I’ll echo that request. It’s probably also far more interesting than gerald and SLC.
#34: “Given the lack of information surrounding this report, and the fact that the report is found on Metro.co.uk, a publication of less than laudatory journalistic reputation (sub-tabloid at best), I’d hesitate to take it as hard fact.”
I’ve never seen any problems with Metro reporting – it is miles ahead of the likes of the Sun or the Mirror. Either way check out news.google.com and you’ll find a number of other news sources running the story including the Times and the BBC. Couldn’t find anything at yorkshire CTU’s website though.
Did someone say cheesecake!
Ginger cheesecake sounds wonderful.
I can explain in detail why I think he’s wrong, but it’s not my intention to do that here.
Right, it’s just your intent to demonize him, scoffing at him and rubbishing his opinions as unfounded, you hypocritical slimebag.