So Anita Sarkeesian appeared on Colbert. How do you think the #gamergaters reacted?
They are heartbroken. Aww.
But the very best response was from Thunderf00t. Once he heard Sarkeesian was appearing on the show, he was tweeting happily that Colbert was going to make ketchup of her, and that appearing on Colbert was going to be the last nail in her coffin, because Colbert doesn’t like SJWs.
Whoops.
@InnerPartisan yup, I admit it I was wrong. Having watched it, I have 2 say it was one of the most dull n lifeless colbert pieces Ive seen.
— thunderf00t (@thunderf00t) October 30, 2014
yup, I admit it I was wrong. Having watched it, I have 2 say it was one of the most dull n lifeless colbert pieces Ive seen.
Hmm. I thought I heard a lot of loud cheering from the audience.
He’s evidently one of those blockheads who thinks the “Stephen Colbert” character is real.
I liked how she ended by calling Colbert a feminist, and he agreed. Take THAT Colbert!!!!
Yeah, what kind of maroon doesn’t realize that Colbert is satire.
Looks like a thunderf00t in the mouth moment.
By the way, I watched the “ketchup” episode where Thunderf00t thinks he was so rough on the SJWs. I saw it as totally mocking Colbert’s right wing persona — the Occupy people he talked to seemed quite pleasant.
How could anyone except the most deluded mental circlejerker expect that Colbert would be on the gamergaters’ side? Amazing.
I’m so happy about her being on the show.
I think this is my favorite piece of whining about this (from PZ’s first link):
I almost feel guilty for enjoying that.
By the way, what’s thunderf00t’s claim to fame? Is it that he did an interview with Dawkins? I used to watch Pat Condell and The Amazing Atheist’s videos, but never really followed anything by thunderf00t. Is he as big a misogynist piece of shit as The Amazing Atheist?
thunderf00t-in-thundermouth disease.
(“dull and lifeless”? Anything but.)
BTW, I saw this the other day, on the gamergaters’ fallen ex-heroes. Again, what a deluded bunch of dudebros.
How long before someone comes along with some variation on “I’ve been reading this blog for many years and I used to like it. But now PZ focuses too much on feminist issues and not enough on science or atheism. Plus he spends too much time attacking other allies, which is pushing away many atheists. We need a united front to oppose religion” ?
::Cough. Cough.::
::Clears throat::
::Gets in character::
The Daily Show is entertainment. It’s comedy. Don’t take anything they say or endorse seriously.
::rushes off to take a shower::
Colbert is heading to the Late Show in a few months, I think maybe he feels he can let the mask slip a little at this point.
Wow, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that thunderf00t is seemingly incapable identifying satire. I guess that’s the charm and the curse of Colbert’s Fauxesque “poe” character, he’s believable and “right on” to the folks he’s mocking. I could imagine thunderf00t internally cheering on Colbert’s sexist indignation act and then being crushed when Colbert’s response to Sarkesian saying he is a feminist is sly grin and a hand shake.
Saad @6:
How do I put this?
FUCK YES. HE IS JUST AS BAD.
Thunderf00t was briefly a blogger here at FtB. It did not go well. There was a thread that IIRC lasted 3 days and was over 5000 posts. He was a vehement opponent of atheist and skeptic conventions instituting harassment policies. If you want to dig through some of his posts on the matter, you can start reading here. Warning: apologists, pitters, and anti-feminists came out in droves.
Someone educate me please. Bring the flame, as long as you make a point. Who gives a f**k what a bunch of arrested wanking troglodytes (Gamers) think?
The threats of violence against women (or anyone, natch) are intolerable. Let’s assume it’s all attributable to Anita Sarkeesian lifting the rock they crawl under to expose them to daylight, which they can’t stand. What’s wrong with a cancerous subculture, unless their hobby is affecting the populace? Has Sarkeesian objectively shown that Gamer Misogyny begets Real Life Misogyny? I’m disgusted by the creepy vibe of those fellas meeting in the strip club, but ugly is not the same as dangerous.
I believe blunderfoot’s original claim to fame was a series of well-received Youtube videos refuting a particularly obnoxious creationist Youtuber.
Do we need to talk about the normalisation of rape culture, about microaggressions, about wanting to enjoy a game but not being able to because the unnecessary sexism is just that fucking bad? About the death threats, the rape threats and the public posting of people’s addresses and contact details? If they were all quiet and just playing their games in their basements or wherever they are we would not fucking care, but they’re not. They are making the lives of multiple women miserable because they can’t face that the world is changing, and they don’t like change.
davidgentile @14:
You need to examine the assumption you’ve made in the above.
It never ceases to amaze me how utterly ignorant theses people are of what reasonable people, even those they admire, think of their arguments and attitudes. This is what comes of living entirely inside a manufactured internet bubble. I admit that I don’t spend a lot of time on things like Fox News, but I do try to pay attention somewhat to what the other side is saying and what kind of people believe it, in what numbers, and why. What on earth made these people think any of their geek idols would side with them?
Perhaps I am just a lesser person, but I feel ZERO guilt for enjoying this schadenfreude. These fuckers hurt people, and see nothing wrong in doing so. So fuck them, and fuck their whiny wah-wah “oh noes all my heroes” faces.
@Tony #17, I appreciate your polite reply. Just the other day PZ said he doesn’t care what people believe unless they (typically Christians / Creationists) start to drag people down. Example: kneecapping Science education, which is a burden to society and arguably is child abuse (the kneecapping, not the education). I’m asking what harm, other than bad thinking, is being done; or tell me why bad thinking with no deleterious effects is a bad thing. I’m not aware of anyone trying to get Gamers’ minds out of the gutter for the Gamers’ sake; and the community has shown they’ll do whatever it takes to stay in their dirty little mind-caves.
#16 has given me an answer. Thank you.
What’s wrong with a cancerous subculture, unless their hobby is affecting the populace?
Anita Sarkeesian is part of the populace. So is Brianna Wu. So is Zoe Quinn. So are the women who play on WoW who get sex-based comments if there’s any hint they are female. So are the girls who see the prevalence of women in games being treated as quest objects or backstory for tragic heroes, and not protagonists. So are the boys who see the same damn thing, and learn that the majority of stories cater to making them the heroes, then get upset when you have a story written assuming (heterosexual) women might want to play it.
@ Saad
Depends on exactly what you mean by this. The Amazing Atheist is overtly misogynist, has attitudes on par with Paul Elam of A Voice For Men. Thunderf00t is more your garden variety, blithering, blubbering anti-feminist. Both horrible people with way too much influence but somewhat different M.O.s.
Is Thunderf00t tweeting back and forth with DJ Grothe?
@davidgentile #14:
Cancerous subcultures do not isolate themselves from society nor do they form independently of society, but rather, they both reflect and enable some of the most toxic aspects of being a member of that society. Cancer spreads. Cancer is caused by problems with a body’s own cells. Similarly, the social cancer of toxic subcultures is caused by problems within that same society, and will spread if those problems are left unexamined.
@#17:
Attitudes inform actions. Do you think treating women badly and encouraging others to do likewise is not a deleterious effect?
Ack, not #17, #20, apparently.
Anita rocked that segment!
davidgentile
Maybe the people who have been harassed out of their homes and careers by said arrested wanking troglodytes? People don’t exist in a vacuum. These ideas weren’t handed down to them from on high.
People act on their thoughts, yo. They do things like post those thoughts in chats in video games and say them out loud in voice chats and create environments that are extremely hostile to anyone not cis-het white and male. It’s not rocket surgery.
Hadn’t read Thunderf00t when he was on FTB so went to the link from Tony @13. The first sentence sprang out at me. Amazing he wrote that.
Wonder what he’d say if you confronted him with it now?
@25, you and the other commenters are putting the puzzle together for me. I watched Anita’s first few videos, but lost interest when, in my view, she kept harping on the content without proving it led to bad effects.
I could and can imagine that bad attitudes, manifested anywhere, could spill over into real life, but wanted her to raise the bar in terms of proof. To use a silly example, would we stop selling squirt guns to children because squirtgun wielders grow up to be irresponsible gun owners?
I certainly have no magic bullet, and I can only hope that exposing all this misogynistic BS will somehow cause the offenders to grow as people, which apparently is the last thing they want to do.
Or someone can create a hack that transmits subliminal anti-misogynist messages to Gamers and “cures” them.
And this is on top of his latest “GamerGate” related video, which has a fancy title card and everything stating “Gaming journalism is corrupt”. The video is 5 minutes long, and he spends 4 minutes ranting about Anita Sarkeesian and her tweets relating to mass shootings (no gaming mentioned at all). Yup, GamerGate is all about Journalism in gaming. Oh, and there is a spiteful jab at Rebecca Watson as well – totally unrelated to anything and nothing but an attack on her from what I can see.
But wait, he has evidence to back up his claims! In fact he highlights severals parts of the Wikipedia page on testosterone to back up his “argument” – even if the part where he shows to back up that men take more risks relates only financial decisions.
I did have a look at the paper in the top journal he highlights (and he cries “Where is your evidence?”), and the top two articles in the related content. The ones where one is a critique of the article, and the other where the original authors state that their results only suggest a link, and the said link is not very strong. So much for the evidence…
Darn, I wished I had watched Colbert last night. Thunderf00L acted just like I expected him to.
It must have hurt Thunderf00t to hear Colbert make exactly the same arguments he made, but as a joke. I loved it.
Davidgentle (#30): If you watch the first video in the Tropes vs Women in Video Games (or check the transcript at http://www.feministfrequency.com/2013/03/damsel-in-distress-part-1/ ), there is no claim that these tropes would be linked to any bad effects. In Anita’s own words:
@Siggy (#24): Yes, apparently they are. I steadfastly ignore both of them, but your question prompted me to check out Grothe’s Twitter feed. Holy shit. Not only is he tweeting back and forth with TFool, he’s supporting GamerGate and retweeting Christina Hoff Sommers. I guess he’s gone completely off the deep end and isn’t even trying to keep up appearances any more now that he’s not with JREF.
Following the link posted by andy @ 8:
Wow, they really thought the artist behind fucking Oglaf would be pro-GG? How deluded can you get?
Seven of Mine #23 and Tony #13
I started reading Tony’s link, but I think I’ll just stick with your summaries.
Didn’t feel like reading beyond this. Good thing I haven’t had lunch yet.
Back on the #GamerGate topic, I think the only amazing thing GamerGaters have accomplished is to convince some people on the whole ethics in gaming journalism thing. How they’ve done this I have no idea. None of their writings/rants/videos/death threats talk about journalistic ethics.
It’s like I convince someone that I’m a gymnast without ever showing them a single routine.
shouldbeworking @ 32 – The Mary Sue has the videos up: http://www.themarysue.com/watch-anita-sarkeesian-colbert-segment/
Without going to check, I’m gonna say surewhynot.
HOW DARE ANITA SARKEESIAN BRING UP CONTENT THAT IS SEXIST BECAUSE SEXISM ISN’T SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE TAUGHT BY SOCIETY.
OH FUCKING WOE IS ME. HAVING TO SEE EXAMPLES OF SEXISM BORES ME!
Shut up, Dave. Gods.
“corrupt journalism” …. Yeah that is the same kind of strawman reaction you get from creationists and conspiracy theorists when their ideas are questioned. Are we seeing a pattern here ?
#16:
Why would we assume that, other than to place the blame firmly on uppity wimmins who should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich?
Gamergate’s “journalism is corrupt blah blah wlah wluh wuh wuh” really grinds my gears. It’s just spin, they don’t care.
Case in point, Jim Sterling. Gaters really don’t like him, and he really doesn’t like them. He’s on their list of “fallen brothers” or “SJWs” or whatever list it is. But talking about the problems with video game culture, publishing and journalism is ALL HE’S DONE for over three years. That and fart jokes, swearing, and mocking religion.
davidgentile #30:
For background, look into chilly climate and stereotype threat, researched phenomena that affect women’s performance and contribute to their lack of representation in STEM fields for a start. A culture of supposedly minor or harmless sexist remarks does have real effects.
As far as I know, nobody’s done direct research on chilly climate or stereotype threat in gaming specifically, but there’s no reason *not* to believe the women and girls *telling* everybody how sexist comments, put-downs, and the treatment of female characters affect their lives.
From 2012:
About thunderf00t’s time at ftb, you can learn a lot from Greta Christina’s posts:
So Much Wrong, Part 1: thunderf00t and Sexual Harassment
So Much Wrong, Part 2: thunderf00t and Sexual Harassment
So Much Wrong, Part 3: thunderf00t and Sexual Harassment
So Much Wrong, Part 4: thunderf00t and Sexual Harassment
(related) Todd Stiefel, and Some Thoughts on Critiquing Codes of Conduct
So Much Wrong, Part 5: thunderf00t and Sexual Harassment
I have a question I’ve asked people who claim GamerGate is about journalistic ethics, but I’ve never managed to get an answer:
This all started with Zoe Quinn being accused of sleeping with games journalists in exchange for favourable reviews*. How come the backlash was overwhelmingly against Ms. Quinn being slut-shamed for having sex with journalists, rather than against the journalists who unethically wrote fraudulent reiews in exchange for sex? I mean one of those is an actual ethical issue in journalism, and the other one isn’t…
*Turns out that the jounralists in question never actually reviewed her work, so I’m pretty suer the accusations are false.
When I heard Anita was on Colbert I thought, “This should be funny and entertaining.” Never once did I worry that he was going to tear into her.
Also, when has he ever torn into anyone he had on the show? He had Nixon staffers on and was almost in awe of them. He’s had legitimately not great people on and he never shit on them as far as I know. Why would Colbert suddenly become vicious over this if not someone who played a part in the genuine evils of the Nixon administration? Oh wait, I know, feminism is worse than prolonging Vietnam for years in exchange for political cookie points.
Somewhere out there, the next Marc Lepine is reading gamergate and other related material on-line, and purchasing more guns….
You know, I almost feel as if GamerGate is a good thing. I mean, it’s demonstrably not good because of the very real effect on women being harassed and threatened, but it does at least let us know who’s who out there, somewhat like recent arguments in the atheist and skeptical communities have, but with even more clarity.
There’s always been feminists, then people who basically respect the rights of women but are perhaps ignorant of the effects of objectification or more subtle kinds of sexism/privilege. Then there were the downright evil, misogynist asshats.
But there were also some people who you couldn’t quite tell. Maybe they were decent sorts, but a bit ignorant. Maybe they seemed like feminists, but weren’t really.
GamerGate is like a sorting mechanism. Anyone who sides with it, no matter how they may protest, is clearly a misogynist asshat.
It’s also done a great job of getting a lot more media attention for people like Anita Sarkeesian. Nice work, GamerGaters. Now good work from good people is getting the attention it deserves and we all know who the asshats are.
davidgentile@14–The problem with a cancerous subculture is the same as the problem with cancer: IT SPREADS. Uncontrolled, it will take over, pushing out anything in its way. fighting such a subculture is like chemo or radiation–it’s not nice, but it beats the alternative–and the earlier we hit it, the better the chance of beating it. (Chances still aren’t good, it’s been growing for too long–but we’ve gotta try, or just give up.)
@14
What the fuck? In what universe is all the abuse, harasment, threats and explicitely sexist shite that has been said and done to actual, real women, not real mysogyny? Are you implying that until someone actually beats up a woman, no real mysogyny has occurred? I don’t…..i….ah, fuck you…
What harm is being done, davidgentile @14?
Imagine you’re a woman gamer and you want to simply unwind after work, enjoy your favorite hobby, and nearly every day, if not constantly, you get a reception like what’s recorded here. (The site has not been updated in awhile, but there’s more than enough there already to get a taste.)
I teach English in Russia and I once had a 14 year-old young man student who was learning English so that he could play WoW and L4D2 with Americans (among other games). His mother was also an avid gamer so it would often be the three of us, with me translating. That was a horrifying experience. I could not bring myself to translate the barrage of hate his mother received, no matter how much they asked me to. How could I translate such relentless obscenity to such a sweet family?
I absolutely only play single-person because of this, too.
davidgentile
Do scores of female gamers saying that these attitudes keep them away from games that they would otherwise love not constitute part of real life to you? Or does it just not count as a negative effect?
@30 davidgentile:
Wait, you have to prove real world harm to just dislike things or criticize them? I’m not sure you’re grasping the point of those videos.
They’re not sociological studies about harm (though apparently, they do attract people like the GamerGaters willing to openly threaten plenty of harm, and threats are a kind of harm in themselves). They’re not trying to find reasons to censor sexist video games or ban them, like your watergun example. They’re critiques.
So the “burden of proof” is a lot lower. Saying “Games cause sexism” is possibly over-reaching without studies (though listening to Player Versus Player game chat in almost any game genre for any amount of time will make you hate humanity, because, holy shit, can PVP bring out the shittiest, most sociopathic, and hateful parts of people), but saying “lazy sexist tropes make games have more boring, trite stories, and lead to crappier character design choices, or just pointlessly take sexist pot shots at women, and maybe we should change that” is more what feminists like Sarkeesian are saying.
Some gamers seem to react like these feminists are more Leland Yees, or Jack Thompsons, people who wanted to legally ban violent/mature video games because they claimed (with meh evidence) said games led to violence. But I don’t think even those two got as much sheer threats and harassment as Fem Frequency, and those two men knew jack shit about games, along with Yee being a corrupt politician who’s now under investigation by the FBI, and Thompson a disbarred lawyer.
Those non-gaming asshole men, who were ACTUALLY trying to get games banned and censored without personal experience or any evidence and who were actually corrupt dirtbags, got less violent hate than actual women gamers who just openly want better games. It’s a fucking disgrace to gamers.
Someone posts almost that exact quote on Why Evolution Is True on roughly a weekly basis. It’s pretty funny in a rather pathetic way when one of them starts posting on how it’s all fake feminism that isn’t like the “real” feminism that was back in the 60s, we’re just silencing voices and that’s wrong, freeze peach…
Yeah, thinking tf was watching something different entirely. Because that was clear from the get-go where it was going, and Anita did her part quite well.
The entire thing was summed up perfectly when he made the “separate but equal” comment related to games.
It’s interesting how my disillusionment with the atheist movement has been mirrored by my disillusionment with the gaming community. Take a wild guess what both of these have in common. It’s not sexism in games, it just sexism. When anyone says “what’s so bad about sexism in video games” they are really saying “what’s so bad about sexism”. The absolute blindness to this is staggering.
davidgentile:
In addition to what others have said above, I would ask that you don’t use the term ‘gamer’ as if this is a synonym for the kind of people you’re describing here. I am a gamer. I even think there is probably a problem with ethics in game journalism (though I am basing that on what seems to me some ridiculously biased reviews, rather than any concrete evidence of it). I am most definitely NOT a GamerGater, and am repulsed and disgusted by the whole thing. I also think that Anita Sarkeesian made completely valid, coherent and cogent criticisms of games and the general trend of gaming in her video series, even though some of the games criticised are ones I enjoyed playing, and I only hope games developers listen to her to give a bit more variety to mainstream games, rather than it being an endless stream of ’30-something white guy goes and kills the bad guys, saves the world and/or gets the girl’.
gussnarp, #49
Yeah, it did a good job of exposing people and backfiring to an extent (i.e. their heros “abandoning” them).
For me, the schadenfreude just got thicker because I just realized that they thought they’d make Sarkeesian disappear from the public eye by the Utah State threats, and she ends up on the Colbert Report. And I’m pretty sure GamerGaters care about Colbert much more than they care about Utah State. That’s gotta sting. I love it.
What is the difference between gamer misogyny and real life misogyny? Do games not exist in real life?
Or looking at other types of entertainment:
Is misogyny in movies not real life misogyny?
Is misogyny in professional sports not real life misogyny?
Is misogyny in literature not real life misogyny?
Is misogyny in TV shows not real life misogyny?
And so forth.
WTF? Do you think misogyny from gamers exists only in fantasy? What?
would the reaction to game criticism be the same if the images and attitude being pointed out were overtly bluntly racist, with all of the negative characteristics long associated with them. Would it be tolerated? Would it not be understood what affects they represented and what influence they had on society?
I have heard no calls for censorship nor banning of any games but I do not see how to see the gamergaters outrage as anything else but calls for just that to silence any thing they do not personally approve of.
All I can say is keep it up boys the louder the better!
uncle frogy
What harm, other than bad thinking, does creationism do?
What harm, other than bad thinking, does religion do?
What harm, other than bad thinking, does anti-vaxxing do?
What harm, other than bad thinking, does jingoistic nationalism do?
What harm, other than bad thinking, does climate change denial do?
It is all “just” bad thinking, until it becomes bad acting.
But, you see, there is a well documented correlation between thinking and acting.
And, further to the above:
Is the doxxing of Felicia Day a bad “thought”, or a bad act?
Were the death threats against Zoey Quinn and Anita Saarkesian bad “thoughts”, or bad acts?
It is actually hilarious to see how ineffective Anita’s critics have been at silencing her or even having their criticism of her be taken seriously by any credible media outlet.
I think Anita has grown so much through this, and is now a truly heroic figure.
Sorry #GamerGaters, she’s a great media critic, and she isn’t going anywhere.
I’m late to the party, but going back to davidgentile @14 (and it looks like this has been addressed), but I wanted to add that 47% of the gaming demographic is female, and the average age is 31. I think that in itself is a reason to pay attention (especially that a lot of people here may very well fall under the title gamer, even if we don’t self-identify as such (myself included))
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp
This is one of those occasions when I sing “Schadenfreude!” to the tune of Handel’s Messiah.
Once upon a time, I thought Thunderf00t was a cool guy. Not so much these days. What an effing asshole.
That piece, dull and lifeless?
I suspect that thunderf00t is the kind of person who finds Mallard Fillmore and The Flipside funny.
Good on her. I have watched a few of her videos but, while I agree with her central ideas, didn’t find them very controversial. In fact most gamers I know who watched them were more amazed at the hate aimed towards her than her actual content – we all thought a lot of what she said was pretty self evident.
Thunderfoot (and her other “debunkers”) tend to highlight specific games where a trope she discusses isn’t present as proof she is wrong about everything. Its almost as if they don’t understand what tropes actually are. Ironically these are similar to methods CAM practitioners use when they nit-pick at medical science and promote their own “cures” instead.
I play the games, and follow some forums, but it has become clear to me that I was never in this particular “gamer community”. I think there’s gotta be, like, multiple communities? I mean, it wouldn’t surprise me. It’s just that the places I went, no one seemed to actually hold such terrible points of view. Maybe it was self-selection on my part, avoiding places that seemed inhospitable to me.
@davidgentile #14: Er, at least other gamers, like a lot of us here. And since video games are a bigger industry than movie films at this point and the under-20s have grown up in an environment where a majority of people (in fact, nearly all of them) play video games, probably a lot of people should care what messages video games are sending players and how they’re encoding those messages.
Aside from what i said in my previous post which is absolutely fucking happening in reality, are you seriously asking what harm sexism in videogames or anywhere else, does to the people that play them? To the minds of young men and women? How it impacts the way they perceive themselves and others? For real?
You seem to be assuming that anyone who plays a sexist videogame is already an intellectually sophisticated feminist who has the tools to recognize and shrug off the sexism in many of them…and that therefore it’s basically inert….you are stupendously wrong.
For me, the “it’s about ethics” call was disproven early on. Does anyone else remember when GameSpot was pressured (by one of the companies involved in the game, I forget which) into firing someone over his negative review of the first Kane and Lynch? Sure, there was a lot of yelling, but nothing like what we’re seeing now. Gee, I wonder why.
Right after Sarkeesian started getting threats, I did a term paper on sexism in pen and paper RPG environments and online gaming environments. Some of the (non-scholarly) articles I found claimed that as sexualisation of women declined in sourcebooks, womens’ participation increased, and so did hostile environments. I won’t get into all the disclaimers and possible confounding factors I thought of, but it’s interesting.
Lastly, I’m another woman who has largely avoided online games because of this mess.
@electrojosh #70
I reckon most don’t really don’t understand what a trope is.
Narrative has always been important me–so much that I have played through games with mediocre gameplay (Spec Ops: The Line, I am looking at you) just to experience the story. A lot of gamers out there, however, really don’t care about that. They want gameplay. Or action. Or stunning photorealistic graphics. Trying to explain the difference between art and kitsch to these clowns is like trying to explain “plot” and “pacing” to a Michael Bay fan: it’s so far off their radar they really have no idea what you’re talking about.
@davegentile
Gamer Misoogyny is Real World Misogyny. The designers, developers, and marketers of games are acting in sexist, misogynist ways by incorporating sexism and misogyny into the games they create. Those games are part of a larger sexist, misogynist culture that surrounds girls and women every day, wherever they go, whatever they watch or read or listen to or play and this goes on for years and years.
Just think about it for a minute. You’re at your job, say, at a radio station. The top celebrity there gropes your ass and says you’d make a great fuck. You have to weigh whether to report it or not cause that person has all the power and you’re just going to be seen as a troublemaker. The onus will likely be put on you to “resolve” the issue by being more nice and shutting up. And that’s probably going to be the best result you’re likely to expect. After work, you go home and, in your five minute walk to the subway, you’re the object of three different guys telling you to smile, or getting angry at you because you don’t talk to them after they make some “complimentary” comment about your body. When you get in, it’s your job to clean the breakfast dishes and make dinner because your boyfriend thinks that because he makes more money than you (despite being employed for less time in a comparable job), you need to do more household chores. You watch the news and find out a local woman was murdered by her ex husband because he didn’t like the fact that she was with another guy. Finally, you’re ready to unwind and start playing a video game and you can’t play as a woman protagonist, or all the women in the game are NPC strippers that are there to be killed (some by you). That sucks, so you turn on the tv and there’s a cop show on but the woman cop is teetering around in high heels instead of sensible shoes and you turn the channel and the woman in this show is killed off so the male hero can feel some angst, and on another channel is a sitcom where all that the women care about are shoes and getting laid. Point to the *real* misogyny please.
That is HILARIOUS. Thunderf00t is like that nasty older sibling everybody seemed to have who whacks you upside the head while your parents are out of the house then sits there telling you that when mom and dad get home they are SO going to see it their way and it’ll be even worse than the whack upside the head, only mom and dad come home and ground their ass for the week BECAUSE WHO THE FUCK THINKS MOM AND DAD ARE GOING SIDE WITH THE ASSHOLE WHO IS SLAPPING PEOPLE UPSIDE THE HEAD?
@Saad #9: I enjoyed Thunderf00t’s “Why people laugh at creationists” series, which IIRC, was decently popular.
He also did a few nice science videos.
Then in one video he made a gratuiteous commet on Christina Rad.
Then he got mucked in petty online drama.
Then he started posting videos about teh Evil Moslemz.
This is the confirmation that he’s utterly deluded.
@davidgentile #14:
The most obvious problem is that the mentality that spawned the Gaters creates barrier that prevent half of the human population to take part in a significant part of our culture.
The second problem is that our culture has effects in real life.
I don’t really see the need to demonstrate this.
The the third problem is people feeling entitled to threaten violence on such matter.
Threats that had RL consequences.
The fourth problem is people downplaying or being outright ignorant of the effects of such threats.
This this attitude is widespread well outside gaming communities.
We can add the dishonesty, the sense of entitlement and the damage done to men by equating “masculinity” with “being an asshole”.
And I’m sure that other people here will add to the list.
Even if misogyny only existed in video games, that’s still real-life misogyny. Playing and being involved in the video games industry is real life. Women should be able to be a part of it without having to put up with the stress and dangers of misogyny.
This is why people laugh at misogynists.
It’s just so hilarious, seeing him jump up and down like an excited puppy, squealing giddily about his hero Colbert is totally gonna beat up the mean feminist, totally gonna do a triple kick, and a jumping uppercut, and then finish her off with a cartwheel kick-punch-kick-punch. And then he watches Colbert do exactly what anyone with a semblance of sense knew he was going to do: not that.
I hope the disappointment was massive.
Aaaaah. Like balm on a wound. I needed to read that.
Here’s hoping the overwhelming reaction from, well, everyone makes it clear to some of the defensive gamers who got sucked into this mess (as opposed to the misogynistic trolls who started and kept it going) that they’re letting arseholes dictate how the gaming community looks to outsiders.
@anteprepro #80
Someone needs to make a Thunderf00t style video series titled “Why Do People Laugh at Misogynists?”
#78 F.O.
Can you explain the petty online drama remark? Because I’m not aware of any in his case and often that phrase is for downplaying feminist issues. It’s suspicious usually and since the Christina Rad line came before it I have to ask.
The only part of the Colbert interview I didn’t like was when he didn’t let Sarkeesian finish her reply about the situation in Utah.
DBP @ #47…
Colbert doesn’t usually tear into his guests because he’s a character. He generally allows the guests he disagrees with to make themselves look like idiots. If you can find it, go check out his interview from a few years ago with Michael Behe…
Oh look I found it! :D
He doesn’t tear into Behe at all. In fact, if you aren’t familiar with Stephen’s character, it does indeed seem like he’s agreeing with Behe. But listen carefully to Stephen’s questions and Behe’s responses, and it becomes really obvious that Stephen’s basically giving Behe more than enough rope to hang himself with, and Behe rather obligingly hangs himself with that rope.
That’s basically Stephen’s schtick. If he’s being “antagonistic” towards a guest, again listen to his his questions, because it’s usually with a guest he agrees with.
I don’t know if anyone here listens to The Majority Report podcast, but recently Matt Binder had someone on to defend gamergate. Binder asked the real question that all discussions with people who claim its about ethics need to start with: “What ethical issues in game journalism has gamergate uncovered?” The answer? “Sarkesian (who’s funded by George Soros) and Gawker said something mean about bullying (not game related, and in reality just mocking the gamergaters).” Ok then.
anteprepro:
It would be sort of funny if they act more like goddists who make doomsday predictions over and over and over, always finding a way to keep loving their sky tyrant while expecting that at any moment it will finally do whatever stupid thing it is they wanted. The Colbert character is also fictional, but the difference here is that he really is mocking them, so that’s a nice change of pace.
andyo –
It is really odd. I was on the website for John Oliver’s show (was hoping to get tickets for it while in NYC, but it sold out in seconds, curses) and on their forum there were people imploring Oliver to cover Gamergate and expose the awfulness of Anita.
My jaw almost dropped off my face. Do they not understand what Oliver is doing on Last Week Tonight? It’s the closest thing to a “SJW” style news show I’ve seen in ages. The idea that he’d be on the pro harassment side was just baffling.
You’re thinking about it bass-ackwards. Sexism in video game content does not have a direct causal relationship to sexism outside of video games any more than violence does. What happens is that sexist attitudes that already exist seep into video games, and in turn, seeing those sexist tropes repeated over and over and over reinforces sexism as something “normal”.
I can just imagine John Oliver laughing at them…oh, silly gamergaters….
Actually i hope Gamergate gets covered in Last Week Tonight, it could be delicious…
Oh god they’re really truly going full JBS on us, the anti-Semitic cartoons are not isolated incidents after all.
It’s really pretty amazing how blind Phil Mason is. How can he misunderstand Colbert so thoroughly?
Evidently the monkeyknob doesn’t realize that Colbert’s father was, if not a Warrior, definitely on the side of Social Justice:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/23/colberts-civil-rights-mlk_n_82852.html
And the younger Colbert has had an SJW moment or two himself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert#2010_Congressional_testimony
Don’t forget Lady Mondegreen, that his mother was pregnant with him when she marched with MLK, Jr (as he often brings up)…
You’d think one or two of the more alert thralls of Phil Mason AKA Posterboy for Misogynist Stupidity AKA PMS™ would’ve informed him about Colbert. You’d have to have your head under a rock (simply be blinded by a combination of impotent man-rage and messianic narcissism) to have expected Colbert to squish Anita Sarkeesian. Oh well, tick the box marked “Does Not Pay Sufficient Attention” on Phil’s report card (for the nth fucking time).
Anyway, nice that Phil realised his assessment was off by orders of magnitude and admitted his error. Now, wake me when someone gets him (or someone equivalently #failgate-y) up on (inter)national TV to talk about how Sarkeesian wants to turn all games into CandyVille and emasculate Super Mario.
#ketchupgate
Thunderfool has posted a video to youtube. He is such a pathetic wanker. He can’t attack his hero Colbert, so he decided that Anita is a hypocrite for going on the show because of the Colbert/Suey Park incident. There was some stupidity in there about thought police, but I find his voice so smarmy and pretentious that I only made it one minute in before clicking away.
@Tethys: I managed to sit through it, and it is bizarre… It is full of strange logical leaps and false equalities and, well, doesn’t really say much at all in the end.
I used to count myself as one of Thunderf00t’s fans (around 2008-9 if my memory is accurate). I enjoyed Why Do People Laugh at Creationists. I’ve since come to learn that his debunking of creationist nonsense was mostly trivial. Even when I considered myself a fan, I cringed when he engaged in live debate. He was lackluster when thinking on the fly, to say the least. I stopped paying attention when he delved into Islamophobia and started paying attention again briefly when he joined FtB. I’ve since rewatched the WDPLaC series, and Thunderf00t’s apparent intellect seems to come from a combination of decent scientific literacy and time to research. He’s not particularly bright (as evidenced by his attempts at debate) nor does he seem a particularly clear thinker (as evidenced by more recent events). I’m ashamed that I ever considered myself a fan, ashamed that he gained prominence, and ashamed that his prominence persists.
A discussion I’ve been having on facebook clarified something for me.
Gamasutra’s “Gamer’s are dead” article is the gamer version of Jen McCreight’s Atheism+ blogpost: screw the dictionary meaning/stereotypes, let’s be better than that. No surprises that there’s so much overlap in the groups that oppose each of them.
On the one hand, I’d be amused to see Gamer+ become a thing. On the other hand, I like the internet and I fear it might meltdown if Gamer+ were to become a thing.
I did not think Phil Mason’s tears would be so delicious. But they are!
Go figure.
@Saad #79: Uhm, yeah, sorry.
With “real life” I wanted to refer to “life that happens away from a computer”
I hope you got my meaning anyway.
@JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness #83
Naaah. AFAIK the comment never made much noise, it just struck me personally.
The petty online drama I referred to had nothing to do with Christina, it was some sort of feud between TF and IIRC some Nephilimfree supporters?
@Suido: #98: Probably not.
Atheism+ lifted the rock, and now we’re dealing with the squirming, but Gaters are losing support, more people are exposed to their misoginy…
Things are changing. I don’t know shit about online gaming community, but I believe the situation is much different (and better) than when Atheism+ started.
That sentence started off so well, and then you ruined it after the comma.
Here’s a hint, FO: if you don’t know anything, don’t offer opinions about it to people who do. I know you’re trying to learn to do better, this is an important one that will help you enormously in Not Getting Into Holes.
I play online gaming ALL THE TIME, and believe me when I say not only has it not gotten better, the backlash against Ms. Sarkeesian’s (generally excellent) critique has meant that a lot of us who game online using female avatars are reaping the edges of that same whirlwind. You want an interesting Internet video? Someone should go into GTA online on a public server and say ‘Sarkeesian Rules!’. And record the hate rolling in, not just in people attacking, but in what they say on the live chat channel, too.
Normally, I play with the chat tuned to “Crew Members Only”, meaning I can only hear my crewmates’ voices.
Creationists & IDiots:
– lie about science even as they misunderstand it
– lie about their own motivations
– ignore/dismiss critiques and defame & quotemine critics
– repeat frequently debunked misapprehensions and misconceptions
– cite charlatans as “experts” or falsely pretend toward expertise of their own
– present false dichotomies (“it’s creationism and Jesus or it’s atheism and Hell”)
– invoke tyrants like Stalin and Hitler to demonise their enemies
– present themselves as the oppressed party (“Our schools are dictatorships run by atheist elites!”)
– depict evolution as a grave threat to their cosy bubble and blame it for society’s ills
– threaten dissenters with eternal torment (tacitly or directly)
– probably hate Colbert (unless they don’t get the joke and think he’s on their side)
#Failgaters & dictionary/Establishment atheists:
– lie about feminism even as they misunderstand it
– lie about their own motivations
– ignore/dismiss critiques and defame & quotemine critics
– repeat frequently debunked misapprehensions and misconceptions
– cite charlatans as “experts” or falsely pretend toward expertise of their own
– present false dichotomies (“it’s the status quo or it’s a misandrist matriarchy”)
– invoke tyrants like Stalin and Hitler to demonise their enemies
– present themselves as the oppressed party (“we’re being FtBullied and freethought-policed and jackbooted!”)
– depict feminists & women gamers/atheists as the gravest threat to their cosy bubble and blame them for society’s ills
– threaten dissenters with eternal torment (or minimise, deny or deflect accusations or evidence of same)
– probably hate Colbert (unless they don’t get the joke and think he’s on their side)
Let me know if I’ve missed anything.
F.O.
AKA meatspace.
Ok then.
See CaitieCat’s #101. Seriously, as another woman online gamer please shut the fuck up when you don’t know what you’re talking about F.O.
Hank_Says @102:
That’s about right. Gamergaters and dictionary atheists have fundamentally the same intellectual flaw that creationists do. They engage in completely unhinged motivated reasoning. Even if at times they seem reasonable, they never really; it’s just that at times “reasonable” aligns with their motivations.
F.O. #100,
Sorry, my #79 was to davidgentile, not to you. I forgot to put his name there.
For what it’s worth, what I know of Thunderf00t that could be construed as “online drama” (other than his thing with DawafFilms) would be bullshit with other Youtube atheists. I didn’t really follow his contention with Coughlan et al, but I assume this is the “online drama” to which such comments refer. I’m happy to be corrected if I’m incorrect.
VenomFangX was one of Thunderf00t’s favorite targets, but I don’t recall VFX’s mental illness being a factor until later. Not that VFX’s mental state excused behavior, but other than drama with other Youtube atheists I’m not sure what “drama” Thunderf00t got himself involved in.
Those grapes were obviously sour all along.
F.O. #100:
Wow. As Caitiecat said, your final sentence invalidated any worth there might have been in the preceding sentences.
It’s creationist style reasoning: I don’t know shit about the universe, but I believe god did it.
@CaitieCat, Harridan of Social Justice #10: Sorry, the few times I allow myself to be optimistic I probably overdo it.
I didn’t want to imply that online gaming communities are any better, because in fact I don’t know about them.
My “but” referred to what is closer to my direct experience: in those communities where I belong, online or not, I have the impression that feminism is more visible and misogyny less tolerated.
I really didn’t mean to downplay the situation in other contexts, or the long way that still lays ahead.
I do like to think that if something like Atheism+ started now it would have an easier run that the original, as there is a lot more consciousness in the community. But hey, optimist.
Hank_Says #102
Only that crypto-fascists and authoritarians of every stripe will pull the identical schtick whenever anyone points out that they’re not just assholes, they’re also wrong.
@111 Dalilllama
Yup – I’m sure I could’ve included climate change denialists, 9-11 truthers, birthers, gun masturbators as well as supplement shills, woo-med halfwits, antivaxxers (but I repeat myself)…
Wasn’t VFX a minor when TF and he began their little feud?
PZ, I just love your title for this. I linked it at WHTM before even coming back to read it!
crypto-fascists
I have always ♥ this as an insult.
I think it’s the ‘crypto-‘ part.
Are there crypto-atheists?
crypto-feminists?
@ nyarlathotep #97
Don’t be too hard on yourself, it happened to me too. ;-)
I recall watching some of his “Why People Laugh at Creationists” videos. I think these were his big claim to fame. They had pretty good production values for an amateur (better than I could do, technically). The sort of people and assertions he attacked were pretty much shooting fish in a barrel. Sadly certain idiots actually make the sort of arguments he amusingly debunked. I found his online feud with VFX odd — why does a grown man engage so intensely with someone who is obviously still an adolescent living with his parents? Then what really surprised me was his bigoted lunacy towards Moslems accompanied by a simplistic understanding of history and culture. Then came his bizarre rantings about feminism. Lots of WTF moments thereafter. Like Pat Condell he started out well but then, almost out of nowhere, YIKES!
As much as I enjoy the tears, it is really depressing seeing how hard they’ll delude themselves over in Thundy’s little circlejerk hate cave.
It’s really depressing that he found picking on women to be more profitable than fighting religion or championing science. What a delight he must be in person.
…I guess I’m just depressed tonight. Maybe I’ll go watch the Colbert clip again. That ought to cheer me up.
oh. my. goo’ness.
The Pffft article for crypto-fascist has Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley, Jr.
@ sandulap #116- yeah, there was also his absolutely pitiful debate against Roy Comfort, where he let Roy soapbox without offering any serious rebuttals. I think it was about that time that I realized that he was really going off a script rather than expertise on the subject.
chigau#115
It’s not an insult, it’s a technical description. It refers to people who hold or espouse fascist beliefs, policies and/or ideologies, while insisting that they are not, in fact, fascists. The Republican Party is a perfect example of this.
Yup, there sure are. The theocratic world is full of them, and quite a few post right here on this very blog; they hold, and sometimes espouse, atheistic beliefs, policies and/or ideologies, while not generally admitting that they’re atheists. Crypto-feminists, too; there’s certainly advocates for women’s rights that shy away from the f-word for various reasons. I’m led to understand that there’s still a few Crypto-Jews (Marranos) around since Judaism was made illegal in Spain in the 15th Century; I read an interview purporting to be with a group of same, conducted under conditions of total anonymity, in which they said that a few of the hidden Jewish families had come out of hiding at the beginning of the 20th century, thinking it was finally safe, and look what happened to them. The rest are staying as they are, thanks kindly.
chigau119
Buckley for sure, I don’t know anything about Vidal’s politics, though.
Tethys @95:
Gaters seem to have convinced themselves that Anita Sarkeesian joined in the #cancelcolbert “campaign”.
What Anita actually did was voice solidarity with Suey Park for having to deal with horrid shit, just for being vocal and female:
She used all the hastags as topics of discussion, not banners of support.
Other things gaters don’t get about the #cancelcolbert situation:
* While the points raised by Suey Park’s tweet were serious (appropriation of racial slurs for comedy does not automatically diminish their harm, among other things), she was using the slogan as tongue-in-cheek hyperbole herself. (She had the call coming from Colbert’s own fictional foundation.)
* Park used the hashtag in much the same way gaters claim to be using #notyourshield. I wonder how many would have also supported #cancelcolbert? (I say claim, as while I’m sure some people are genuinely sick of being used as cultural symbols in arguments, the tag itself is documented as being coined strategically by 4chan.)
Well having heard Gore Vidal speak on TV a number of times I do not think that he favored “a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism?s=ts
though I could be wrong I could go and listen to some of his many video’s on youtube
Dalillama
I think I imprinted on ‘crypto-‘ in the 1960’s or 1970’s.
I was always meant as an insult.
I mean being a fascist is bad enough but crypto-fascist is a step too far…
chigau
I’d have thought that the ‘fascist’ part would be the insulting bit. That said, I don’t imagine it was that easy to find people who’d actually admit to being fascists in the 60s and 70s; they’re still pretty thin on the ground.
What makes me sad is the fact that Thunderf00t used to be a half decent skeptical Vlogger before transforming into a grumpy old git that does nothing but whine about feminism existing and ineffectually bellowing for it to get off his lawn!
Further to a comment on the word ‘trope’, above, one of the more insidious attacks on Anita Sarkeesian I’ve seen is from a toad who styles himself the ‘Armed Gamer’. His trick is to attempt to prove that Sarkeesian is a sexist by asserting that the word ‘stereotype’ means the exact opposite to what people understand it to be, so that when Anita says something is a male or female stereotype, she means that she believes it is a true image of males or females, ergo she’s a sexist.
What’s shocking is the number of commenters nodding at this and say ‘oh, that’s food for thought, that is’.
I prefer to use the words ‘weasel’ and ‘douchebag’ in their non-literal sense.
The thing about Thunderfoot’s videos was that they appealed to the hatchling or intellectually pubescent atheist, because you are likely having your first contact with certain arguments, you might even have the understandable desire to see silly theists get their comeuppence, and mostly because you just don’t know better and are easily impressed…That’s pretty much it…
That was the first thing I thought of when I read it, too. :)
@8 andyo
To be fair, if I saw somebody I admired do something awful, I might consider them to be on a similar “fallen heroes” list. That list in itself is not the issue (although making such lists is kind of creepy). What is the issue is WHY they think these people deserve to be on that list.
@9 Tony! The Queer Shoop
Don’t you mean a “united House of Atheism”? :-P
@14 davidgentile
“Someone educate me please. Bring the flame, as long as you make a point. Who gives a f**k what a bunch of arrested wanking troglodytes (Gamers) think?”
Woah, don’t conflate gamers with Gamergaters. You’re insulting a ton more people right there than you realize. Not at all called for. In fact, this “debate” is very much splitting gamers into subgroups, some flaming at each other. I’m a gamer and I don’t appreciate being grouped in with these folks.
@97 nyarlathotep
“He’s not particularly bright (as evidenced by his attempts at debate) nor does he seem a particularly clear thinker (as evidenced by more recent events).”
Eh, not being good at debates doesn’t mean a person isn’t bright. Might be anxiety, might be unpreparedness. Hell, one might simply not be that quick-witted in one’s responses. Might be any sorts of reasons.
In fact, we don’t expect scientists to respond to counterarguments to their papers or defend their claims in a debate-format. We expect written, well-researched, thought-out rebuttals. Debates are often just about being the most flashy. It’s one of the reasons people recommended Nye not debate Ham because Ham – while utterly wrong on pretty much everything – might be able to use his debating skills to score points regardless.
That said, I agree with your second point quoted here.
Oddly, he’s somewhere in the middle when it comes to just how much Colbert he thinks is or is not parody. Colbert hasn’t exactly been easy on atheists for example, and as much as I would like to think he’s on “our side” there, I’m pretty sure he’s a real life roman catholic. (Both Colbert Report and Daily Show have been surprisingly indulgent in the new pope for example).
I watched the Occupy video he said showed Colbert was against “social justice”. Well, not exactly. He’s clearly been in favor of everything that Occupy was doing, just not in how… um… weird they were doing it. I mean, they seem to differentiate “consensus” from “voting on things to determine a course of action”, which I’m sure is a real difference to them in their fey, organic, co-op taco share farm life or whatever, but for the rest of us comes across as really silly. Same with those bizarre hand gestures and the whole notion of “not having a leader” (oh yeah? Then who decided on these weird hand gestures and “consensus building”, you people named after condiments by parents who apparently were too busy trying to shock people with “what a name could REALLY be, MAN” to actually trying to give their kids a chance not to be made fun of.
Agh! Sorry, I did support Occupy, but wow some of those people… like they’re from another planet sometimes… I mean it’s like… could you say things in a way that people would understand while making the same points? Like, do you know what you sound like?
Um, sorry off-topic, but anyway lightningleg seemed to have seen that interview in a vacuum. He missed the part where he used the standard right wing view of occupiers to assume dressing as Che would help him blend in (not that Che is quite the villian he’s painted as sometimes, I’ve got some appreciation for the guy and what he did to help Snake stop walking nuclear tanks in central America… I think I got confused a bit…). Twinkletoes really needs to watch OTHER colbert stuff where he clearly is insulting super pacs and the corporate notion that profit is an end in itself, where corporate owners often literally will argue that any moral transgressions they have are justified by the fact they are profitable.
@124 unclefrogy:
Do you remember the time in 1968 when William F. Buckley threatened to punch Gore Vidal on live TV after Vidal kept calling Buckley a “crypto-nazi”? I managed to find the clip. It’s as though the only tool right-wingers have in their belt is the threat of violence.
If only they would use their Go Galt magic power just once, even for five minutes. Think of what we might accomplish.
mickll @127:
Nah. Thunderf00l never did any better than steal candy from obnoxiously crying babies. He always, always punched down. His targets may have been asses, but they were also pathetic. Thunderf00l preached to the choir by picking particularly easy and mostly harmless targets, targets that didn’t require much in the way of an argument to debunk. He was always about puffing up his own ego; he never did anything useful to promote rational thought.
These gamer people seem like Taliban wannabes. If only they could chop the heads of bossy women.
I love Colbert
*hugs*
Thanks to everyone who commented.
fucking keyboard fucking blockquotefails fuck.
those st00pid occupiers, understanding the difference between unanimous consent and majority rule, and daring to say it out loud. clearly that makes them silly and inferior to the average American.
are you fucking shitting me.
#132 Dark Jaguar
Colbert is fairly famously a real-life catholic, but if you think he’s been hard on atheists, actually I have the impression that he’s been way harder on catholicism, with the various very biting bits about the abuse scandals for instance. One of my favorites (sorry you might have trouble watching it if you’re not in the US).
Neil Tyson interviewed him for StarTalk (also Jon Stewart), and I think he talks about it (being catholic) there. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of catholic dogma, probably as good as his Tolkien knowledge.
Jadehawk already said it, but yeah–
Voting means majority rules. Consensus means everybody agrees.
#herpderp
And further:
Who decided on the hand gestures? Everybody who was present at whatever meeting where they decided. That’s what the word “consensus” means. And they are actually pretty effective for communicating in large groups without a leader and no microphones to pass around.
Occupy had numerous problems, too bad you’re too short-sighted and ethnocentric to accurately identify them.
I wish Colbert were less transphobic, and I wish Sarkeesian would use better language when talking about sex workers (“prostituted women” is a very problematic term), but I still support Sarkeesian’s projects and am glad Colbert had her on.
Does… does he like echo chambers? Should we not engage with people with whom we disagree?
consciousness razor (#87)
Oh, but you clearly haven’t read the latest couple WHTM posts.
What is this supposed to mean?
@ Hank_Says, 102
I guess it would be more accurate to say:
Creationists & IDiots: threaten dissenters with a hypothetical form of eternal torment for which no factual evidence exists.
Failgaters & dictionary/Establishment atheists: threaten dissenters with very real and very common lifelong torment (or minimise, deny or deflect accusations or evidence of same).
Which in my books makes it clear which of these two groups wins the Major Asshat Award.
——–
On a more general note. I, too, used to watch a lot of Tf00l when he still concentrated on the WDPLaC series and was deeply disappointed when he started to become a banner-carrier in this foolish anti-justice crusade. Needless to sauy, he’s been dropped from my YT watchlist for quite a while know even though YT keeps adding him in the list of “suggested channels”
I guess that one of the reasons why I used to like TF when he made more scientifically minded videos is because IMO, he has a pleasant voice to listen to when he’s explaining things. Which for a non-native speaker can make a big difference. Plus, his accent made him sound a little like my favourite Brittish documentary host.
Of course, even before I dropped TF, I found out that several other YouTubers bring science in a more neutral (or at least mocking but not denigrating) way … like AronRa or PowerMyles. And for good speaking voices, there’s always Brett Palmer, Seth Andrew and many others … So in the end … not much lost by ignoring TF.
I think it means that Dark Jaguar is Dark Jaguar’s real name, and that Dark Jaguar can’t process the idea of pseudonyms, aliases, or name changes.
I keep seeing posts on AcquaintanceBook nattering happily about how Colbert “exposed” Sarkeesian, and how Gamergate had finally won…
Those damn dirty hippies! With their slogans of make love not war, give peace a chance, and power to the people. I am always flabbergasted by people who can’t wrap their head around all members having equal status, rather than being led by someone in a suit. (aka The Man) Can you dig it?
Yeah really.
What’s so funny about peace, love and understanding?
andyo:
Talking about abuse (or cover-ups) in the institution is miles away from actually criticizing Catholicism as a religion. I’ve noticed a few times where’s he’s made some fairly subtle jokes about actual problems with religion before (no links, sorry). Even though it’s ostensibly made at religion’s expense, that can actually be a way of diverting attention from religion, because the choice of joke can make the problems seem light and funny and harmless. Anyway, when he’s actually discussing the issue with other believers (or atheists, or people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson whatever he calls himself) and directly addressing them, he always argues unequivocally in favor of religion. His apologetics has been the usual, clueless, theist talking points; and they’re not something I’d expect to hear from a reasonably intelligent, well-educated, liberal person like Colbert if that person genuinely had an interest in thinking critically about the subject. Having more of that kind of shit on TV is a bad thing.
A. Noyd:
Yeah…. and I wish I hadn’t.
Tethys:
I can dig it, but I would say that what Occupy people often lacked wasn’t a Man but a Plan (and maybe a Canal). There were a lot of ideas which got jumbled together, so the overall message was sometimes confusing (to me) if not incoherent (to everybody). To use a music analogy, there’s a very real difference between playing without a conductor and just playing whichever random noises that come out of your giant ensemble. Even if you’re improvising, you can have some chord changes to play over, or at least some kind of an idea (in advance, obviously) of what the damned thing is going to be like. Even Cage used the fucking I Ching (etc.) to sort out what his “random” music would be like, before it actually happened.
There is a lot of good, thoughtful, intelligent people who are religious.
There are a lot of very “rational” and vocal atheists who are assholes.
I don’t think (anymore) that attitude towards religion is any good predictor of anything about a person.
:D I do love this place, and all ya’ll smart people. Occupy did manage to get people talking about wage issues and economic disparities, but yes, it didn’t really have clear demands or goals. The phrase “but some of those people” is nearly always bigotry. You look funny and your Momma gave you a funny name is so square.
TFoot introduced me to the atheist community. From TFoot, I found other atheist commentators, including Aron-Ra and The Atheist Experience. From there, I heard about Crackergate, checked out Pharygula, and have been hanging around ever since. FTB was formed, added a bunch of bloggers, then a bunch of youtube personalities, including Tfoot. I was a excited… then promptly disappointed.
just watched the interview. Classic good Colbert, where he uses his persona to show just how stupid real misogynists are. He has let the mask slip many times, with that jackass dentist who is trying to force creationism in texas schools, when any conservative politician comes on.
Nothing is better than watching idiots think that he is on their side and watching that eyebrow rise when he gets exactly what he wants from his prey.
consciousness razor (#153)
Ack, should I have tw/cw’ed those? I thought the horribleness would be apparent from the subject matter.
Coincidentally, Occupy has come out in support of Gamergate and the anti-Sarkeesian “documentary” lately.
Of course, this is because the page and twitter account for Occupy are owned by Justine Tunney who is…ohhh, how to put it nicely?…. some sort of contrarian performance artist who has held every position on everything at one time or another.
I think consensus decision-making can work well, particularly in small andor ad hoc groups, but it, and the claim of “all members having equal status” can easily turn into de facto domination by those who are the most articulate, most determined to get their way, andor best networked within the group, and this is then without the check on their power which formal democratic procedures can provide. Justine Tunney’s ownership of the page and twitter accounts for Occupy looks like a possible example. There can also be a lot of moral pressure on those who disagree with an emerging “consensus” to pretend otherwise.
Oh, snap!
Do we need to point out that death threats, rape threats, doxxing people, but mostly women, forcing people, but again, mostly women, to flee their homes because of said threats, all things done by GGs, and those are just the tip of the iceberg, are very very bad? And really dangerous? That if this keeps up it’s only a matter of time until someone gets hurt or even dead?
Do we? Really???
But hey, even if all those very bad things hadn’t happened, the GGs still want to keep things bad.
I mean, what’s up with how women are represented in games? Am I the only one that thinks it’s pretty awful that having been playing games for some 30 years, I can name all six games I’ve ever played with good female leads, and that 3 of them are from the same series? And that’s when they’re the leads, because when they’re not, it goes downhill fast.
And it’s not like this is a new problem, women have been left out of games pretty much since always:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/15/technology/game-theory-a-teenager-with-a-very-big-problem.html
Note that this was written 14 years ago, not today.
Do we need to point out the bad thing the GGs are doing? Really?
Given that so many people refuse to acknowledge it or brush it under the rug?
Yes.