The Saga of Paula Kirby »« My skin is at stake!

Episode CCCXLVII: The Saga of Thunderf00t

I made a video! Since Thunderf00t has been baying about the great injustice done to him on youtube, I figured I’d reply in the same place. So here’s why Thunderf00t was fired.

Hey, maybe we should have an online poll in the comments about who was right!

Nah, that would be stupid.

(Episode CCCXLVI: Long overdue.)

Comments

  1. says

    Huzzah!

    I love how Pinker rightfully points out the wrongness of ultimate evil…but ignores the banality of evil. It’s like he’s actively setting up blinders.

  2. says

    I’m enjoying watching the anti-FTB crowd display their logical contradictions at every utterance.

    Paula Kirby: “There is no harassment! Women just need to harden the fuck up because of the harassment they encounter!” is just about my fave.

  3. says

    Audley:

    Speaking of OM NOM NOM!

    We were speaking of sperm… :D

    This chocolate is OMG SO GOOD, Daisy!

    Isn’t it? At first I considered getting you a sample of their chocolate with hot pepper flakes, but I didn’t know whether you liked that or not, and in any case I didn’t see it in the shop.

    Dalillama, I had been tempted to make a similar comment and link to my friend Flewellyn’s post about “pseudosophers,” because they’re quite fond of such handles.

    Pinker has long been a douchebag on gender issues. Click on this page to expand it if you want to see him blaming rape victims and accusing feminists of embracing “the politically correct ideology of rape.”

    Sorry to hear about your ulcer. I hope you get some relief.

  4. says

    chiptuneist:

    Cool, I love that lofi sound, in fact I was working on a hardware chip drumsynth for a while. Then I got distracted (as usual).

    I was just wondering if you were someone I knew, I was quite active in the demoscene from 1993 to about 2002.

  5. says

    Argh
    I finally got myself “The Handmaids Tale” (I’m going to confess a terrible crime now: I once read some shortstories by Margret Atwood in school, didn’t like them and never took up another book by her again. Ptrobably it was simply the wrong time).
    Now I’m reading the same way you watch a car accident: Too horrible to watch, too horrible to look away

  6. says

    Daisy:

    At first I considered getting you a sample of their chocolate with hot pepper flakes, but I didn’t know whether you liked that or not, and in any case I didn’t see it in the shop.

    As much as I love that combo, my heartburn has been really wickedly bad lately. Even if it was just barely spicy, it prolly wouldn’t agree with me. :(

    (The falafel I made on Saturday, which was barely spicy, gave me heartburn for two days after. Which is a huge bummer ‘cos I love teh heat.)

    ***
    I don’t know if anyone around here loves the Comics Curmudgeon like I love the Comics Curmudgeon, but I wanted to give a shout out to Josh Furhlinger’s Kick Starter Project. He’s written a novel! I’ll be giving next payday. :)

  7. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Nicely done.

    Frankly, I thought this should be apparent to anyone who was hanging around at the time, but it’s nice to have something that doesn’t require others to reread the whole kerfuffle.

  8. Louis says

    Re: video: Seems reasonable enough to me.

    Oh dear, that’s probably Teh GroopThink™.

    Wait…that wasn’t full throated, sycophantic agreement either. ZOMG TEH DEEEEEP RIFTS™!

    There, I have now covered every troll’s comment from here on in, they don’t have to bother.

    Louis

  9. says

    @ pentatomid #9

    We are of the same mind.

    *crosses fingers*
    *realizes that crossing fingers is stupid*
    *uncrosses fingers and hopes no one noticed*

  10. chiptuneist says

    Ernst

    Cool, I love that lofi sound, in fact I was working on a hardware chip drumsynth for a while.

    That would be awesome, particularly if it could be operated via MIDI. Any chance you have a schematic lying around? I’d love to take a look at that…

  11. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Huh.

    Did I get eaten by the spamfilter again?

  12. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    And since I’m an especially nice guy, I’ll now lift the quarantine on Ixchel or whatever the heck he’s calling himself now (with one plea: please try to stick to a thematically consistent series of nyms).

    Isn’t the ooohhhmmm consistent enough?

  13. Brownian says

    I don’t know if anyone around here loves the Comics Curmudgeon like I love the Comics Curmudgeon

    His writing makes me pill in the shower.

    I’ve also seen Naked Bunny With A Whip in his comments section.

  14. says

    I haven’t been reading up on the last edition of TET, but apparently there has been some delurking, so a quick welcome to all the new people!

  15. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I see. So it’s the link to N*talwaysr*ght that does it.

    Now I wonder what was wrong the other day then, when I had no links.

  16. ChasCPeterson says

    I watched the video.

    PZ: you make beautiful, eminently reasonable sense, of course. Nicely written.

    keep the day job.

  17. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Paula Kirby: “There is no harassment! Women just need to harden the fuck up because of the harassment they encounter!” is just about my fave.

    You forgot the rest of it: Women just need to harden the fuck up because of the harassment they encounter! Except me, you bullies!! And don’t call people names, you FEMNAZIs!!”

    ++

    I’ll now lift the quarantine on Ixchel or whatever the heck he’s calling himself now

    Oh fucking hell. I go away on a brief vacation and someone’s changed their name? goddamnit. who is this?

  18. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Josh Furhlinger

    Who?

    ;)

    I read it for a while, but I realised that I didn’t know most of the comics he analyses and at some point I’m afraid I just stopped caring. (Of course, I’m currently considering culling my webcomics list since I seem to be looking at a lot through shear inertia.)

  19. says

    chiptuneist:

    That would be awesome, particularly if it could be operated via MIDI. Any chance you have a schematic lying around? I’d love to take a look at that…

    The schematic isn’t that interesting, it’s basically a microcontroller (AT90USB1286), a dac, some IO expanders and an lcd display.

    Most of the interesting stuff is supposed to happen in software on the microcontroller and currently the source code is very uhm… fragmented. But i got midi over usb working, which is nice.

  20. ChasCPeterson says

    &om;

    fuck

    ॐ (ha! found it)

    anyway, the ॐ is always sufficient to recognize sg.

  21. chiptuneist says

    Ernst: That comment is sufficient for what I was trying to find out, so thanks! I was mainly interested in whether or not you were using analog oscillators (because I fucking love analog oscillators). Guess I could have just asked that, in retrospect.

  22. Owlmirror says

    Aside from those aspies, there are the real misogynists sending threats, vitriol, and trolling as what they probably perceive as revenge for some perceived insult to them or persons they identify with.

    Quoted for irony-blindness.

    ======

    I’ll now lift the quarantine on Ixchel or whatever the heck he’s calling himself now

    Oh fucking hell. I go away on a brief vacation and someone’s changed their name? goddamnit. who is this?

    strange gods before me ॐ
    == life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ
    == old man jenkins ॐ
    == [sundry 'nyms I'm too lazy to search for] ॐ
    == ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ

    (Spot the common theme!)

  23. John D says

    I think this is your best response to TF in this whole debacle. Very well done. If TF wasn’t trolling, he kept digging himself into a deeper hole all the same – its really disappointing he wasn’t up to his usual standards.

  24. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    “(Spot the common theme!)”

    Lol. understood. What is that thing, anyway. Is it pronouncable, or is SGBM going the Prince route?

  25. birgerjohansson says

    Wroom! Wroom! Happy Days!

    Huge meeting with 17000 restored 1950s American cars in Västerås, Sweden.
    Photo gallery:
    http://www.thelocal.se/gallery/travel/2490/
    Up to 90.000 visitors, many of them dressed up as 1950s American tenagers (think “Happy Days”).
    There are also British and other vintage cars from the 1950s.
    — — — — — — — — —
    Aaand an Australian vintage car meeting
    http://www.summernats.com.au/

  26. birgerjohansson says

    P.S.
    Yes, I know that if you were black, gay, or lacked a Y chromosome the 1950s sucked. Something cultural conservatives will not understand.

  27. Brownian says

    What is that thing, anyway. Is it pronouncable, or is SGBM going the Prince route?

    It’s an Om/Aum.

    But I’m going to hear “Raspberry Beret” whenever I see his ॐ from now on.

  28. says

    Tip on bringing in video bloggers: going back and vetting YouTubers is extremely difficult especially since videos have a tendency to disappear. The nature of the medium makes it a lot harder to glance through someone’s work,too. For instance, I can’t find the sleeping giant video, which is the one most people were referencing when criticizing Thunderf00t, nor the several back-and-forth videos with DawahFilms that resulted.

  29. says

    chiptuneist:

    That comment is sufficient for what I was trying to find out, so thanks! I was mainly interested in whether or not you were using analog oscillators (because I fucking love analog oscillators).

    You’re welcome. I love analog oscillators (and filters!) as well, unfortunately analog electronics is like black magic to me.

  30. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    But I’m going to hear “Raspberry Beret” whenever I see his ॐ from now on.

    You’re welcome. ;)

  31. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Thanks, PZ.

    I won’t make a new nym (might go back to pitbull) until I alter the killfile script so that it blocks comments by account rather than only nym.

  32. ChasCPeterson says

    SC: ha! I heard that on local radio this morning, and of course thought prezackly the same thing.

    However, it’s inportant to note not only that the school’s principal once publicly stated that the mendacious intellectual pornography of intelligent design creationism would never be taught there, but also that it once employed a certain renowned memoirist who shall remain nameless.

  33. says

    Ernst Hot:

    analog electronics is like black magic to me.

    Analog electronics is black magic. You know those mysterious “offset null” pins on some op-amps? They serve no electronic purpose. They’re purely there for occult reasons.

  34. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    I’ve also seen Naked Bunny With A Whip in his comments section.

    Naked Bunny With A Whip once won the comment of the week on that blog.

  35. Nutmeg says

    Eeek. The cute summer student from our partner lab is coming with me (and another summer student) to the field tomorrow. I think there’s a decent chance she’s queer, too. Too bad she’s 19, and a summer student, and she works in the same room as me. And I’m not out at work yet.

    Conclusion: When I’m fighting the urge to make pitiful attempts at flirting with summer students, it’s a sign that I need to meet more new people. I think I’m almost ready to put that on my to-do list. Now I get to find out if I’m as shy with girls as I was with guys.

    Second conclusion: Hey, at least I want to try to flirt with her. That’s a major improvement from when I was still trying to date guys.

  36. chiptuneist says

    ernst: I just know that I’ve never heard a digitally produced sine wave that sounded entirely right. Maybe it’s just me missing my (stolen) Minimoog.

  37. jackrawlinson says

    ” A misconception that free thought means unconditional support for anything anyone might have to say”

    A complete straw man, and you know it. No one is saying that every thought has to be supported.

    This is why there is a growing backlash against you people. Because you lie. You misrepresent. You straw-man, shamelessly and disingenuously. You do the very things that you rail and mock your opponents for. You have become arrogant, hypocritical, sneering, smug ideologues. You have become an embarrassment to the “community”. And more and more of us are – with varying degrees of regret – realising it.

  38. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Daniel Tosh is a disgusting human being

    that and a bulldozer would knock me down. He’s the posterboy for Useless Wankers You Should Point and Laugh At.

  39. ChasCPeterson says

    oo!! jackrawlinson!
    Can you confirm or deny the rumor that you are Elevator Guy?

  40. Matt Penfold says

    Daniel Tosh is a disgusting human being

    Thankfully I had never heard of him. At least his name is apt.

  41. 'Tis Himself says

    jackrawlinson,

    If you don’t like it here, nobody is forcing you to stay.

  42. says

    jackrawlinson:

    This is why there is a growing backlash against you people.

    This talk of a “growing backlash” would be a great deal more impressive if it didn’t always come from the same group of obsessives.

  43. ChasCPeterson says

    No one is saying that every thought has to be supported

    miss the point completely much?
    ffs.

  44. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    ‘Tis, do you think that he is hoping that he gets banned so that he can show off a shiny “OPPRESSED AND BULLIED” badge?

  45. says

    hyperdeath

    Analog electronics is black magic. You know those mysterious “offset null” pins on some op-amps? They serve no electronic purpose. They’re purely there for occult reasons.

    Heh.
    I guess you’re supposed to connect them to a pentagram shaped trace on the pcb.

  46. chiptuneist says

    Daniel Tosh is a disgusting human being

    Incredibly unfunny too. Tosh.0 is basically putting the worst parts of youtube on TV, complete with the fucking terrible comments. In fact…

    How do we know that Daniel Tosh isn’t responsible for 87% of youtube comments, hm? YOU CAN’T PROVE HE’S NOT!

  47. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    But I’m going to hear “Raspberry Beret” whenever I see his ॐ from now on.

    Now that you mention it, it does sorta look like pursed lips blowing a raspberry.

  48. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Uh oh. Someone’s alma mater’s reputation is tarnished.

    It really annoys me when the kids cheat that incompetently. I usually have to tell them that I may be stupid, but they really shouldn’t treat me like a complete imbecile.

  49. leighshryock says

    Ugh. I found the ThinkProgress article on Tosh’s little ‘joke’. The comments section is as disturbing as expected.

    Comedy being comedy, offensiveness is going to come with the territory. That’s just bad and lame, however. Doubling down and shaming the heckler into leaving by threatening rape in a round about way was extremely bad taste, even by comedy club standards.

  50. says

    No one is saying that every thought has to be supported.

    But not providing the likes of Thunderthud an outlet for every odious misogynistic rant on a well-trafficked blogging network makes the FtB proprietors Nazis not worthy of the free thought designation. Yeah, big strawman there.

    This is why there is a growing backlash against you people.

    I guess we’ll just have to huddle up On The Beach style and wait for the end. “Waltzing Matilda,” anyone?

  51. Amblebury says

    @Brownian

    But I’m going to hear “Raspberry Beret” whenever I see his ॐ from now on.

    Meee tooo!

  52. Pteryxx says

    That’s mighty what Christians should be like of you.

    …I’m SO stealing this. (And best wishes to Jules! *waves*)

  53. julian says

    Not sure I would have kicked TF out in FtB’s position simply because of how much fuel it’d add to fire. But it definitely isn’t my call and someone who’s intentionally picking fights with the rest of the network (behind the scenes or otherwise) deserves to be kicked out.

    It really does look like TF signed up specifically to troll. Which is a shame. He took up a seat that could have gone to a much more honest, less hostile person. Someone who’d argued TF’s position without the obnoxiousness or misrepresentation and in a clear (readable) argument.

    Oh well, good riddance to the jerk.The less space he has to behave like a prat the better.

  54. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    See? Told you. It’s already drawn two assholes. Not fun.

  55. Nutmeg says

    Speaking of insults, does anyone know if “jerk” was originally/is still a gendered insult? I only ever hear it used to refer to men. Google gives something like “a tedious and ineffectual person”, but I’m not sure I’m looking in the right places.

  56. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    PZ Myers, you are a lying shack of shit.
    But you knew that, right?

    ericatkinson, exactly how?

    Or are you just so so mad and angry and have to say something despite being unable to provide any details?

    are there veins popping out on your forehead?

    Do you need a nappy?

  57. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Ugh. I found the ThinkProgress article on Tosh’s little ‘joke’. The comments section is as disturbing as expected.

    Comedy being comedy, offensiveness is going to come with the territory. That’s just bad and lame, however. Doubling down and shaming the heckler into leaving by threatening rape in a round about way was extremely bad taste, even by comedy club standards.

    Tosh is comedy?

  58. says

    I seem to be having trouble getting my comments to go through. Now I fear dozens of slight variations on the same comment are going to suddenly come gushing forth in the bullying thread.

  59. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    You all cannot believe the disgusting, horrific things people are tweeting about the woman Daniel Tosh thought it was funny to threaten with gang rape during his performance. My God.

  60. Beatrice says

    I could use a nap (and when I say a nap I mean a good night’s sleep), but there are all these threads on Pharyngula.

  61. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Speaking of insults, does anyone know if “jerk” was originally/is still a gendered insult? I only ever hear it used to refer to men.

    I really only hear it that way too, except that 1.) my ex-boyfriend used it for women who were being mean and 2.) I used it as my secondary non-gendered replacement for when I previously used “bitch” and “bastard” so I refer to women with it. Etymology dictionary doesn’t really know.

  62. Nutmeg says

    Thanks, Cipher. I may try to replace it with “asshole” instead, just because I’ll be more comfortable with that.

  63. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    hey, is anyone around here near Portland Or?

    In my moving efforts I need to get rid of some things. I’m mostly selling them, but if some pharyngulite wants a love seat, small couch, food processor, hardwood flooring (160 sq ft), bookshelves, a desk, CRT TV, VCR, DVD player or, y’know, a bunch of other things, you can LMK here

    &/or e-mail me using cripdyke on the ol’ gmail.com server with which everyone is so familiar.

    I don’t have much reason not to sell things – especially because paradoxically people are often less interested in Free stuff b/c they assume something must be wrong with it, so selling it generally gets rid of it more efficiently. But I’m more than happy to give things away to a good home. Which I will generously assume is any home occupied by any member of the Horde.

  64. carlie says

    Naked Bunny With A Whip once won the comment of the week on that blog.

    Dang, really? I read the blog, but never delved into the comments. Too. Many.

    Hello, jackrawlinson!You seem to be seeking feedback on your uniquely piquant opinions. Luckily for you, there is a thread made exactly for such feedback! Kindly direct your opinion to the TZT thread, conveniently available on the right-hand side of the page in the Profile section. Please do not submit your comment multiple times, as that will invalidate your submission. Enjoy your stay, and may you receive exactly the kind of feedback you deserve.

    Hello, ericakinson! You seem to be seeking feedback on your uniquely piquant opinions. Luckily for you, there is a thread made exactly for such feedback! Kindly direct your opinion to the TZT thread, conveniently available on the right-hand side of the page in the Profile section. Please do not submit your comment multiple times, as that will invalidate your submission. Enjoy your stay, and may you receive exactly the kind of feedback you deserve.

  65. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    I’ve been using “jerk” because i specifically don’t want to use any body parts as insults. Honestly, I totally get the squick of poo, but our bodies don’t get better by NOT having an anus. Thus why the insult? Using the excrement itself in constructing the insult seems much more appropriate to me.

    I’m aware of the gendered tendencies of the usage of “jerk” but it doesn’t seem to have the same problems as “son of a b” or “b” or genital insults.

    ….

    separately, I’m shuffling iTunes and “shoot to thrill” just came on. Am I the only one who thinks that the music of AC/DC – masters of the single entendre – are the absolute perfect musical metaphor and calling card of Tony Stark?? I really don’t think that they could have done it better. No one says, “I love my violence and sex and partying, often at the same time” better than Tony Stark. And no one sings, “I love my violence and sex and partying,” better than AC/DC.

    The feminist in me sometimes is astonished that I like AC/DC, but the music of our childhood is hard not to love. Besides, it’s so cute when AC/DC’s serious fans try to defend their lyrics’ artistic quality.

  66. ChasCPeterson says

    When I was a little kid, calling some bully a “jerk” was the most she’d let me get away with.
    However, my strong belief is that it’s derived directly from the epithet ‘jerk-off’ (alt: jack-off) which refers unambiguously to to the act of male masturbation (cf. the chiefly British ‘wanker’).

  67. ChasCPeterson says

    gah! In my previous, “she” refers to My Mother of course.
    jeez. freud ftw.

  68. says

    Crip Dyke:

    Honestly, I totally get the squick of poo, but our bodies don’t get better by NOT having an anus. Thus why the insult?

    Point. Plus, hey, anuses can be fun, and I can’t say the same for those I’ve likened to that body part.

    Maybe jerk is the way to go, or just calling people “shits.”

  69. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Dammit I keep missing the portcullis!

    Previous thread:

    chiptuneist: I love me some VNV Nation! I just wish I could get to one of their concerts.

    Wait, we have a standard reply to trolls and such now? Are we going to have muzak playing in the background as well?
    ————————————————-

    This thread:

    I’m really starting to doubt I’ll ever go to see any comedians perform on stage. Every time I turn around it’s like another one has gone off the deep end, and not in a good way.
    ————————————-

    Audley: Admit it, you look forward to the day when you can safely stuff yourself with all manner of spicy treats. Even if it means you get a nosebleed.

  70. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Plus, hey, anuses can be fun, and I can’t say the same for those I’ve likened to that body part.

    QFMFT

    I mean. That’s what I’ve heard.

    Not that I would personally know, of course. As a queer person, I was politely asked by the Pope not to ever-ever have sexyfuntimes with other women. Because religious opinions deserve significant respect for their popularity and their lengthy history, I have of course complied.

  71. Oenotrian says

    I’m about 92 posts behind. Congratulations and/or commiserations on all the new animal babies. {{hugs}} for the folks dealing with cancer.

    I just got an unexpected phone call from my mother. Not cancer, but heart problems. She has a history of PVCs (as do I) and they put her on a 24-hour monitor last week. They found that while she was exercising, her heartbeat was normal. While she was resting, she would have PVCs, and while she was sitting at the computer her heart actually stopped for a few seconds… four times!

    So tomorrow she goes in for a myocardial perfusion imaging and a stress test. Next Wednesday she gets a pacemaker.

    I’m just a little freaked out here. o_0

  72. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oenotrian—I can imagine how you feel! Try not to worry too much. The perfusion is a straightforward procedure and pacemaker implantation is so routine it’s almost banal (in a good way). Your mom will be fine and is good hands; I’m glad they found out.

  73. says

    PTI:

    Admit it, you look forward to the day when you can safely stuff yourself with all manner of spicy treats. Even if it means you get a nosebleed.

    You have no freaking idea!

    Of course, the closer I get to the end of my pregnancy*, the more breastfeeding woo gets shoved at me. Like: you can’t eat spicy food when breastfeeding. Or you can’t have an alcoholic beverage when breastfeeding. It’s ridiculous.

    Oenotrian:
    D:
    *hugs*

    *Just started my sixth month! Whee!

  74. says

    Like: you can’t eat spicy food when breastfeeding. Or you can’t have an alcoholic beverage when breastfeeding. It’s ridiculous.

    Doesn’t seem to have stopped any of the breastfeeding mothers in my family. Well, the spicy stuff, at least. We’re a hearty people and introduce babies to their first peppers at three months.

  75. hotshoe says

    Siún Ní Dhuibhir by Relativity.

    I usually hate soft “new age” stuff, but I last heard this song 5 years ago and hearing it again today was an unexpected pleasure.

    May be what some of us need to balance out the troll crap we’ve been deluged with lately.

  76. Brownian says

    Of course, the closer I get to the end of my pregnancy*, the more breastfeeding woo gets shoved at me. Like: you can’t eat spicy food when breastfeeding. Or you can’t have an alcoholic beverage when breastfeeding. It’s ridiculous.

    Hmm. Better stay away from this, then. (I think it’s the wasps that make it spicy.)

  77. jjgdenisrobert says

    Problem is, PZ, that you DID straw man tf00t. Big time. The fact that you are still unable to admit this considerably undermines your own argument.

  78. birgerjohansson says

    Audley, good luck for the next 3 months. And the birth. And the whole childhood thingie.
    —- — — —
    Sili,
    I have always recognised that I would be an incompetent cheater. So I stay honest out of convenience.
    — — — —
    Contraception saves 250,000 lives each year: study http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-07-contraception-year.html
    — — — — —
    Researchers unravel secrets of parasites’ replication http://phys.org/news/2012-07-unravel-secrets-parasites-replication.html
    Personally, I think Homo Sapiens belongs to the category “parasite” rather than “omnivore” at least in terms of resource management.
    — — — — —
    New biofuel process dramatically improves energy recovery http://phys.org/news/2012-07-biofuel-energy-recovery.html

  79. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Problem is, PZ, that you DID straw man tf00t. Big time.

    Hmm, where is the evidence you are right. I see claims only, which can *poof* be dismissed without evidence too. Try again.

  80. says

    Problem is, PZ, that you DID straw man tf00t. Big time. The fact that you are still unable to admit this considerably undermines your own argument

    Wow, that’s convincing. Especially the complete lack of substance.
    There’s just no counter-argument for “nuh-uh.”

  81. Hayden says

    @103

    Here’s one.

    it doesn’t work to say that you reject misogyny, but oh, that meeting there? It’s OK if you hit on women there. It’s OK if you abuse women in a bar; bars are free-range markets for men to exercise their will.

    As clueless as TF’s posts were, he never said anything like the above.

    I would also like to take the opportunity to say that PZ is right in his assessment of TF’s behavior. TF’s posts were shameless trolling.

  82. John Morales says

    Hayden, presuming you refer to the video (I haven’t seen it):

    As clueless as TF’s posts were, he never said anything like the above.

    You quoted PZ and claim TF never said anything like it.

    So, no mention of bars and behaviours therein by TF, for example?

  83. says

    @109. THunderf00t did say the following:

    Look I’ll make it simple, the point of a bar isn’t to make everyone maximally safe (indeed if it were, they would ban bars, as it would be far safer if everyone just stayed at home and did nothing), it’s to let everyone have the most amount of fun. The reason people don’t go to bars that are maximally safe, is because they are DULL, with folks always living in fear of crossing some random rule written by some hypersensitive pencil-necked PC jockey. I want to go to a bar where people let their hair down a little and act like PEOPLE! Nor do I see why everyone who is happy with such bars should have to comply to your dull set of rules that would SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT EXACTLY THE SORT OF FUN GOING ON IN THIS PICTURE.

    PZ’s remark seems to be a fair paraphrase as Thunderf00t is saying that exercising his will on women is fun and bars are supposed to be fun rather than safe. How is this substantially different?

  84. Hayden says

    TF certainly talked about bars. He mentioned them quite a lot, but he never said they were places where men had free reign over women. His point was that acceptable conduct differs based on the setting. Loud singing and dancing is perfectly acceptable at the after party in the bar, but not during, say, the keynote address. Heck, if two people want to get frisky with each other, more power to them. That’s something both TF and PZ agree on. However, TF never said abuse is A-OK sol long as it happens inside a bar.

    Where TF went completely off the deep end was his thinking that there would be something like a list of approved activities enumerated in an anti-harassment policy. Of course, that’s not how these things are drafted. The main thrust of these policies is that if someone says you are bothering them, you need to leave them alone. Not only that, you should have enough forethought to not bother people in the first place. This is why TF is *wrong*, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was misrepresented.

  85. John Morales says

    Ace of Sevens, now the specimen doesn’t have to be manoeuvred into producing a balancing quote.

    (why make their lives easy and miss out on experimentation?)

  86. cm's changeable moniker says

    The feminist in me sometimes is astonished that I like AC/DC

    Hey now, even feminists can like a shit-hot rhythm section. ;-)

    (I’ve always though AC/DC’s core values came from the back of the stage. That, and Bon Scott’s voice, which sadly, we lost.)

  87. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Watched the video. If that is an angry PZ, it could use more anger; shoe pounding ala Khrushchev at the UN, bopping with bippies ala Laugh In, clue-by-fours being applied to the side of the recalcitrant head ala Three Stooges. It sounds like a mild-mannered college professor disappointed in a promising student. I’d turn in my cyber-pistol, but it never arrived in the mail. *hears rolling-on-the-floor-laughing clucks in the background* Well, that might not be your fault.

  88. Hayden says

    Thunderf00t is saying that exercising his will on women is fun

    I don’t see how that is a fair paraphrase at all.

  89. John Morales says

    Hayden, care to cite the source of your quotation so that I may see it in context?

    (If it’s the video, what’s the timestamp?)

  90. cm's changeable moniker says

    I’ll have a “t”, please, Bob, could you stick it on the end of “though”?

  91. bertrandrussell says

    Are people still talking about this nonsense? I’ll be back in a few weeks. Hopefully this pseudo-drama will be over then and we can return to normal programming.

  92. mandrellian says

    Why do people laugh at Thunderf00t?

    Only Thunderf00t doesn’t know.

    The dude dug his own damn hole. Intro post aside, his entire body of work at FtB was bullshit trolling (two posts entitled “FFS PZ MYERS”? Come on, Drama King), mostly consisting of misrepresenting and attacking arguments noone was making with a side order of minimising a real problem people were having honest discussions about (and a little JAQ’ing off). I don’t know for certain, but PZ’s notion (better-informed than mine) that he was out to troll from the very beginning seems very, very plausible – especially given TF’s history of fanning the flames of internet drama on YT, including among fellow nonbelievers.

    Apart from TF’s terrible (purposely?) vague writing, shitty attitude and omg-did-he-really-do-that creationist typesetting, the icing on the cake in this sorry fucking saga was that “scientific” poll TF took of his subscribers after presenting only his argument, and his presentation of it as “proof” that he was right. If Eric fucking Hovind polled his followers whether evolution was true and touted the inevitable negative result as “proof”, we can imagine TF’s response. But TF does the same thing and bang! He wins the internet AMIRITE?

    No, TF, you are not right. In addition to not being right, you’re a pissy little shit-stirrer, which I cannot respect. After “Why Do People Laugh At Creationists” and your war with PCS/VFX I quickly lost interest in your channel as you devolved into pompous shit-slinging with idiots like DawahFilms and ostensible allies like Coughlan, over piffling trifling bullshit. You are not an asset to the movement as your primary goal appears to be self-aggrandisement. That shit we can easily do without.

  93. John Morales says

    ID=”bertrandrussell”, you’re not one of us, and there is no ‘returning’ to where you never belonged.

    (Bah)

  94. ImaginesABeach says

    Hello, jjgdenisrobert! You seem to be seeking feedback on your uniquely piquant opinions. Luckily for you, there is a thread made exactly for such feedback! Kindly direct your opinion to the TZT thread, conveniently available on the right-hand side of the page in the Profile section. Please do not submit your comment multiple times, as that will invalidate your submission. Enjoy your stay, and may you receive exactly the kind of feedback you deserve

  95. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Doncha just love it when a person who had nothing to say announces that they will be leaving?

    Baby, please don’t go!
    Baby, please don’t go!
    Don’t take your love down to New Orleans!
    You know I love you so!
    Please don’t go!

  96. says

    @120. So what is he saying is fun? If he wants to flirt with people without worrying about whether they are into it, isn’t that imposing his will to flirt on them?

  97. julian says

    However, TF never said abuse is A-OK sol long as it happens inside a bar.

    No he never said this explicitly but it’s hard not getting that from his posts. He makes no indication he cares about consent (describes asking as a buzzkill for the sort of play in the pic) making sexist joke after sexist joke knowing the effect they have on some FtB bloggers and readers.

    total side note: I hate, hate, how the anti-FtB crowd is ignoring his behavior. I don’t mind being criticized but at least portray the other guy accurately. Reading Stangroom or that fuck Blackford you’d get no indication TF said or did anything objectionable.

  98. A. R says

    IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THE VIDEO: Please leave your comments on TZT, we will respond to you there. You will not receive a response here.

    Horde: I hope you don’t mind my asking that you all only post a link to TZT when a troll comes along, but I don’t think very many of us want TET to be filled with trolls.

  99. alanwilliamson says

    Mr. TFoot’s writing on FTB was rubbish. Apparently, he doesn’t know proper English.

  100. birgerjohansson says

    Pakistan, land of…I dunno. Pod people?

    Ed Brayton: “Pakistani Mob Burns Man for Blasphemy”
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/07/09/pakistani-mob-burns-man-for-blasphemy/
    A possibly mentally unstable man was arrested for allegedly burning a koran. A mob gathered around the olice station, broke in and burned him to death.

    — — — — —
    Lynch mob storms police station (thinks).

    Suggested remedy: Just like zombies. One bullet in chest to slow them down, one in the head. Organise the defence so the growing pile of bodies block access for the zombies behind. Use fire if convenient.
    — — — —

    “Pakistan denounces only Nobel Laureate over religious beliefs” http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/2012/07/09/pakistan-denounces-nobel-laureate-over-religious-beliefs/

    Regarding the Nobel laureate in Pakistan: Ahmadis are a -relatively- liberal group of muslims and are of course persecuted by the entrenched factions of muslims.

  101. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THE VIDEO: Please leave your comments on TZT, we will respond to you there. You will not receive a response here.

    This is just a little bit silly.

  102. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    The video is part of the thread. Why the fucking should comments about it, even from those people who have the facts wrong, be sent to an other thread.

    This is just fucking silly and stupid.

  103. Mattir says

    Audley – as someone who breastfed twins for 30 months, I think I am qualified to say that you do not have to give up spicy food, alcoholic beverages, caffeine, or anything else while breastfeeding. What you do have to realize is that what you eat is in your breastmilk, and thus is being ingested by DarkSpawn. I learned this the hard way, when the Spawns quit sleeping around 6-8 weeks and were like little irritable wailing cocaine-withdrawal babies. I was, of course, drinking about 8 cups of coffee a day, out of total exhaustion. I figured it out after a couple of weeks, cut back to one cup per day, first thing in the morning, and all was good. We all slept for weeks after that. Basically be aware that if DarkSpawn is irritable or having digestive weirdness, it might be diet, try cutting out common irritants (cow’s milk, cruciform vegetables, onions/garlic, wheat, and phenols (found in many fruits, especially red wines and purple grape juice). (Check with a certified lactation consultant – not a wooish amateur – for the actual list of stuff that has been established to pass into breastmilk and cause irritability or digestive problems in nurslings. There is research stuff on this, not just old wives tales.) If the problem gets better with a restricted diet, start adding stuff back to see if you can pinpoing what the sensitivity is.

    Also, not all sensitivities last forever. Many many young children are pretty sensitive to phenols. SonSpawn had a hideous problem with them as a preschooler – a glass of purple grape juice would send him into irritability overdrive, to the point where he’d threaten to throw himself out of a moving car. I had actually measured him for a seatbelt from a psychiatric restraint company so that he would be unable to remove his own seatbelt – the idea of my kid throwing himself from the car on I-95 did not appeal to me. A child psychiatrist suggested that I try the Feingold diet, which seemed to me to be absolute woo, but it made an astonishing difference. (Interesting – SonSpawn would always get this weird flushed ears and face appearance when he was about to lose control. With the change in diet, the flushing stopped along with the weird tantrums. If he managed to get something not on the approved list at a playdate, everyone around him could spot the flushing and anticipate the tantrum.)

    Sorry for the rant. It’s just that dietary woo is bizarre, and not everyone has the same sensitivities. Announcing cast iron rules and warning pregnant women about the severity of the rules is stupid.

  104. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I don’t see how that is a fair paraphrase at all.

    And how isn’t it? Your OPINION equals nothing. Show us the evidence, not your OPINION of what you think evidence is.

  105. Seabisquick says

    Excellent video PZ. I especially appreciate the fact that you are willing to admit the mistakes FtB made in the process. Not that they justify thuderfoot in this, but that you are committed to laying out the full truth of it, even where it puts “your side” in the wrong on something.

    I watched this drama unfold with an inclination to give thunderfoot some sympathy. I enjoy his videos, and he was invited here after all, and seemed to get a mixed reception at best. I’m not much a fan of the tone that often erupts around here, but that’s just my preference (not tone trolling here, let your freak flag fly). Despite my efforts to give him the benefit of the doubt, he did everything he could to convince me he was wrong. It was clear he was all about “being right” rhetorically at the expense of facts. Pity. This is how politics, religion, etc. operate. But not science or freethought. It’s not supposed to be about who can manipulate the audience best. TF was acting like a politician or pundit, not as a critical thinker.

    Seems to me he has a little bit of a thing with winning arguments at any cost. Until now, I didn’t understand his need to post video responses to unhinged fools who criticized his youtube stuff. Why bother? Looks like he just made some dumb comments and is the kind of person who can’t admit mistakes.

  106. John Morales says

    Hayden, PZ there is specifically responding to Now first let me say from a strategically point of view sexual harassment at conferences really is a non-issue, and the bit you quoted is an example of something that wouldn’t work:

    This has never been about TAM, either. The argument encompasses meetings, but also the larger geek and atheist culture, which turns out to be pretty damned sexist. You do not correct the broader problem by turning a blind eye to the specifics; it doesn’t work to say that you reject misogyny, but oh, that meeting there? It’s OK if you hit on women there. It’s OK if you abuse women in a bar; bars are free-range markets for men to exercise their will.

    (your quotation emphasised)

    Pretty clearly, PZ was riffing on another part of what TF wrote (quoted later): “If I want to chew on some womans leg in a bar, I don’t want to have to consult the conference handbook to see if this classes as acceptable behavior!”

    His point was that acceptable conduct differs based on the setting.

    Or, more specifically, that conference harassment policy is a kill-joy to him and should not apply in bars.

    (What was that about straw dummies?)

  107. Hayden says

    @127

    He makes no indication he cares about consent (describes asking as a buzzkill for the sort of play in the pic)

    Have you ever wanted to surprise one of your friends? Asking for explicit consent before hand wouldn’t exactly make it much of a surprise. This is another one of TF’s errors, thinking that PZ, et al., would require explicit verbal consent for things like sneaking up behind a friend, and covering their eyes, or biting a friend’s leg at a party in a bar. You can’t get from there to “abuse is OK if it happens in a bar.”

  108. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Sadly, all of the chemicals that are around you and get into you also end up in your milk. Not trying to be a scare monger but there is more to be concerned about than just what food and drink you ingest.

  109. John Morales says

    A.R., obviously what Janine wrote @133.

    PZ is being a poopyhead, posting it in the lounge. :|

  110. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Have you ever wanted to surprise one of your friends? Asking for explicit consent before hand wouldn’t exactly make it much of a surprise.

    FFS.

  111. nonny says

    Good video, PZ.

    @ the people saying ‘Thunderfoot didn’t say that’ or ‘Thunderfoot doesn’t think that’-if that’s true then he’s guilty of the second thing PZ suggests in the video at 07.07: being such a sloppy thinker that he was getting angry at PZ and other over issues they actually agreed about.

    Anyway, it’s pretty clear that he’s not going to be reinstated at freethought blogs. No amount of arguing will change that, so just move on with your lives. Please.

    I always thought ‘Jerk’ was from ‘jerk off’ and a reference to masturbation, but this site suggests some kind of connection with ‘jerkwater town’:
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=jerk&allowed_in_frame=0

  112. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You can’t get from there to “abuse is OK if it happens in a bar.”

    And how not, based on the totality of TF?

  113. Hayden says

    @138

    conference harassment policy is a kill-joy to him and should not apply in bars.

    Because I think he fundamentally misunderstands what the harassment policy encompasses. I would very much like to see TF’s specific response to the American Atheist’s policy that PZ posted. That policy would not prohibit the leg-biting pic, as TF seems to claim a harassment policy would. Nor should it, because it was two people having fun together. “If I want to chew on some woman’s leg” is not the same as “If I want to chew on any woman’s leg that I see fit.”

    Where the policy applies is also a valid question. Take the upcoming TAM 2012 as an example. There are lectures, there are parties in the hotel, and then Penn Jillette is throwing a private party at his house. Clearly any harassment policy would apply at official events like lectures. I would argue that the policy would not apply at Penn’s private party. Whether it applies at the unofficial after parties in the hotel is much more of a gray area. While it’s not an official event, it is on the premises of the conference and will largely be attended by conference goers.

    Now, whether the policy applies one place or another is not saying abuse is OK one place and not another. It just means the responsibility to provide a safe space falls to different people.

  114. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Carlie, that btail is really no worse than the rattails that some people had back in the eighties.

    *shudder*

  115. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Oh, and Hayden, primary evidence, not your OPINION of the evidence…

  116. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Whether it applies at the unofficial after parties in the hotel is much more of a gray area.

    Actually no, if in the official venue. But then, you should know that. That you don’t puts your OPINIONS into questions…

  117. Pteryxx says

    Carlie: I looked, an then I skipped to the Laci Green thread, and read it as “skink-shaming”.

    <_<

  118. carlie says

    Have you ever wanted to surprise one of your friends? Asking for explicit consent before hand wouldn’t exactly make it much of a surprise. This is another one of TF’s errors, thinking that PZ, et al., would require explicit verbal consent for things like sneaking up behind a friend, and covering their eyes

    You know, nobody likes it when you do that. Nobody. Even if they kind of give a feeble laugh and a “ha ha, you got me”, they fucking hate it.

  119. John Morales says

    Hayden:

    Now, whether the policy applies one place or another is not saying abuse is OK one place and not another. It just means the responsibility to provide a safe space falls to different people.

    Exactly, and thus PZ posed it as the type of thing that would not work, as is clear in context.

    I put it to you that the elision of the quotation to which this was responding and of the first part of the response is what makes you able to claim it’s a strawman.

    Pretty weak-sauce.

    Otherwise, you’ve made many good points. :)

  120. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Serious question—what investment in TF do people have who are bending over backwards to salvage something reasonable out his recent behavior? I honestly want to know. What does TF that is so irreplaceable as to motivate this much bailing water out of his boat?

  121. Hayden says

    Actually no, if in the official venue.

    Does the bar in the hotel count as an official venue, or just the rented conference rooms? I’m not saying it should or shouldn’t. I’m saying the distinction matters.

  122. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    they fucking hate it.

    SO MUCH THIS. I instinctively slap people when they pull that shit. Do not do this unless you want to me to hit you really hard. It makes me livid just thinking about it.

  123. Rey Fox says

    This is why there is a growing backlash against you people.

    And just what do you mean by “you people”? File that one away with “uppity”.

    Speaking of insults, does anyone know if “jerk” was originally/is still a gendered insult?

    My impression is that it comes from masturbation. But the only backup I have on that right now is Chas, so take it with the requisite grain of salt.

    Tosh is comedy?

    I think it’s like all those live-action shows they have on Cartoon Network these days.

    Are people still talking about this nonsense? I’ll be back in a few weeks.

    That’s nice. And you are…?

  124. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Josh, it not that ThunderingFool made a reasonable argument. It is because all of those uppity broads have a problem with what he said. Therefor, something reasonable must be there.

  125. Hayden says

    I put it to you that the elision of the quotation to which this was responding and of the first part of the response is what makes you able to claim it’s a strawman.

    I put it to you that “abuse is OK so long as it is in a bar” is a rather extreme position to take. It would take a lot more than TF’s sloppy writing and rhetoric to convince me that he holds such an extreme position, and at the end of the day, a straw man is the misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.

  126. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Ing@209:

    What general area do you live around (NW, SW, NE, SW, MW, blah blah blah) because I’m with Gillel that here on the NE I think the stereotype is that attractive==gay more often than not. Because God is just tormenting all the straight women by making all the god men gay, as the trope goes.

    I live in Florida (in the zipper of the Bible Belt). Between here and Alabama (where I came out), the vast majority of the time I’ve been hit on by women, *if* I inform them I’m gay, they’re always shocked.
    I should mention that I tend to carry myself with a degree of confidence (standing and sitting up straight, for instance). To this day, people ask me if I’m military (I was asked this last week at some restaurant), to which I say no. I think the perception is that my appearance is similar to how military men carry themselves. More than likely this is something I subconsciously picked up from my father, who was a nurse in the Army for 20 or so years (my last job, the male bartenders had to wear dress shirts and ties; occasionally people would point out that I lined up the buttons on my shirt with my zipper, which was unintentional, but apparently is standard in the military).
    In addition to that, I shave my head, and another *very* common experience I’ve had are people that want to touch my head (especially after I’ve freshly shaved my head–against the grain–when it’s smooth). Most polite people ask, but I’ve encountered a few who think they have the right to just reach over and rub my head, to which I usually respond that I don’t like that (knowing things as I do now–thanks to you wonderful folks–my response is likely to be a bit more stern and brusque).
    Between my shaved head, my posture, and skin tone (think Vin Diesel; when I worked at TGIFriday’s, literally for 3 months every single day {I worked 3 days a week} someone would say that I reminded them of Vin Diesel), for some reason people always believe I’m straight.
    I have a regular at my current bar who literally did not believe me when I told her I was gay (she *still* has a crush on me). I had to get another bartender and our barback to verify and even then she still doubted it. I told her I have pictures (a few) as proof, though I never intended to show her those NOLA pics. I think she believes me now.
    ~~
    Another thing I find amusing is that both here and in Alabama, I’ve rarely found more than a dozen or so gay men (that I was aware of) that I’ve found attractive. There are always more straight men (or those that I identify as straight) who are attractive (to me, obviously). Yet so many women state the opposite. I frequently hear “all the hot guys are gay”. To which I ask “where are they?”*
    ~~
    One of the earliest people I came out to (my GM at my first job) had no issue with me being gay. She did however, have an issue with me dating outside my race. This was when I lived in Alabama (North AL, to be exact, which is smack dab *in* the Bible Belt).

    And now I think I’ve talked about myself waaaaaay too much and hope I haven’t given anyone the impression I’m stuck on myself.

    *I do like a hot guy, but it isn’t a requirement. I’m perfectly happen with someone who I’m attracted to, but others might not consider hot (and really, another person’s opinion in that situation is meaningless)

  127. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    (think Vin Diesel; when I worked at TGIFriday’s, literally for 3 months every single day {I worked 3 days a week}

    Yes please. :)

  128. cm's changeable moniker says

    “jerk”

    My impression is that it comes from masturbation. But the only backup I have on that right now is Chas

    You now also have the entry from my Concise OED.

  129. John Morales says

    Hayden:

    [1] I put it to you that “abuse is OK so long as it is in a bar” is a rather extreme position to take. [2] It would take a lot more than TF’s sloppy writing and rhetoric to convince me that he holds such an extreme position, and at the end of the day, a straw man is the misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.

    1. What part of “The argument encompasses meetings, but also the larger geek and atheist culture, which turns out to be pretty damned sexist. You do not correct the broader problem by turning a blind eye to the specifics; it doesn’t work to say that you reject misogyny, but oh, that meeting there?” which precedes that specific quote is unclear to you?

    2. (sigh) PZ is not making such a claim.

    (Did you actually read my #138?)

    Again: I put it to you that the elision of the quotation to which this was responding and of the first part of the response is what makes you able to claim it’s a strawman.

  130. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    rowanvt @221:

    When a person has no hat he lacks purpose and value.

    When he has no purpose and value he not only goofs, he will commit crimes.

    It is apparently easier to hit with ethics than to program and give someone a full hat and get him trained on it. ”

    So far we think we’ve translated “hats” to mean “jobs” or “role”. But taken literally, this passage is hilarious.

    Yeah, that is damned funny!

    ~~

    Cipher:

    Words: They mean stuff.
    Cipher’s free tip of the day.

    The way some people in the world are clueless about this, you may need to restate this ‘tip o’ the day’ daily.

    ~~

    carlie @255:

    LOL.
    This is going to be the standard response from now on, eh?
    Sounds good to me :)

    ~~

    Dalillama:
    I’m so sorry for you. That sounds unpleasant. Given that this is later in the day since you first posted, I’m hoping to come across an update from you saying that you’re doing better after going to the ER.

  131. weakswimmer says

    What Daniel Tosh did to that woman comes as no surprise. His comedy is just disgusting.

    —–

    What do you do when it’s too hot indoors and outdoors? I’m tempted to turn on a sprinkler and jump in it, but I can’t think of anywhere in the yard to put it.

  132. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I’m saying the distinction matters.

    Then look at the guidelines. Your opinion is still meaningless, including the distinction matters. It doesn’t. Get this outside of yourself…

  133. says

    Ixchel, that’s an argument from etymology. I have never seen “prissy” used as a homophobic slur, ever. I’m not going to stop using it.

    Nor am I going to stop using “jerk” or “asshole” or “wanker.” Shit is useful, too — it fertilizes the crops — so why don’t we stop using that in insults? Are we really going to engage in this sort of mental masturbation, examining every single epithet for even the slightest hint that, once upon a time, it was “problematic”? Because, quite honestly, that’s ridiculous. And prissy.

    Tosh apologized. Sort of. Wanker.

    Eric Atkinson:

    PZ Myers, you are a lying shack of shit.

    A shack of shit? Is that like an outhouse?

    Hayden, thank you for your concern. Once again. And your disingenuity in #139, where you conflate pranking a friend with hitting on a strange woman.

    Jerky asshole who is soiling Bertrand Russell’s good name:

    Are people still talking about this nonsense? I’ll be back in a few weeks.

    Who the fuck appointed you program director here? You won’t be missed, and please don’t come back.

    As for the video, I guess it’s nice that PZ apologized for certain mistakes FtB made, but I can’t really blame other bloggers for stating their reservations about Thunderd0uche publicly.

  134. Brownian says

    @danieltosh I can’t wait to hear your “lynching is funny!” bit. Or would that be a little TOO dangerous?

    Martha Plimpton is awesome!

  135. John Morales says

    ‘prissy’?

    (Connotatively closer to fastidious than to prudish, for mine)

  136. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    PZ:

    And since I’m an especially nice guy

    Who are you and what did you do with the PZ that’s a mean poopyhead who kicked Thunderf00t out for not being part of the FtBully groupthink thang we have going here?

    ~~

    Cipher:

    This isn’t going to be a fun TET, is it.

    We are going to make it fun, dammit! Who’s got the doobie? Where’s the grog? And can someone please make me a ham and cheese sammich?

    ~~

    Ms. Daisy:

    At first I considered getting you a sample of their chocolate with hot pepper flakes,

    Where is this place you get chocolate with red pepper? My roommate, T, absolutely *loves* chocolate (along with coffee, cheese, and peanut butter). She would flip out over that stuff.

    ~~

    dysomniak:

    In a shocking twist, Daniel Tosh is a disgusting human being [tw].

    That fucking piece of shit!
    How the hell does someone think making jokes about rape are appropriate…EVER??!!
    Then to compound the problem by digging a hole to the center of the Earth with his follow up statements (which I won’t even repeat because it is so utterly vile)??!!

    ~~

    ‘Tis:

    If you don’t like it here, nobody is forcing you to stay.

    Not only that, but who the hell wants him to stay? He can go peddle his shitty wares on TZT.

    ~~

    First jackrawlinson, now ericatkinson?
    Do these trolls have nothing to do than drop their shit all over the Lounge?
    GTFO.

    ~~

    julian:

    Not sure I would have kicked TF out in FtB’s position simply because of how much fuel it’d add to fire.

    I would have.
    His sexism (now, now you poor things, you aren’t being harassed. It’s not a pervasive problem that many women deal with day in/day out. It’s just a few cases here and there. Let me dismiss most of your claims without even talking to any of you)
    and
    His lack of freethought (how did he form his opinion on sexism and harassment? It certainly wasn’t by taking a logical or rational approach to the topic)

    combined with his doubling down and being a complete asshole right from the start
    made for an UNwelcome addition to FtB. He didn’t fit here at all.
    Oh, yeah:
    He’s also a shitty writer.

    ~~

    Rev:

    Do you need a nappy?

    No.
    The nitwit needs a one way, all expenses paid trip to a remote island where xe can live far away from PZ and us.

  137. Mattir says

    I am not going to stop using wanker or jerk – as far as I’m concerned, we need MORE insults related to obsessive and annoying-to-others masturbatory habits (hoggle(, for example, is a fantastic addition to our lexicon of insults).

  138. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Ixchel, that’s an argument from etymology.

    No, #57 is not an argument at all. It is a lesson in etymology. This here comment will contain an argument, I promise.

    I have never seen “prissy” used as a homophobic slur, ever.

    As promised:

    I have. More commonly as a slur about effeminacy, rather than sexual orientation per se, but I’ve heard it as both.

    +++++
    Every single example on UD is gendered, except for #8 from Kristen who objected, “I’m a prissy person, and I’m none of those things”.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prissy

    1. prissy
    stuck up, goody-two-shoes, self-centered, all-knowing, hard to please biatches.
    she’s so prissy. i can’t take it!

    2. prissy
    Femininely arrogant. Can apply to both males and females.
    He/she is so prissy, it makes me puke!

    3. prissy
    Someone who has characteristics of an uptight bitch that doesn’t realize that their life effects other people. Spoiled brat.
    Child celebrities often grow up to be prissy assholes with no futures.

    4. prissy
    I would also say prim and proper. Very dainty girl. Very much lady like.

    Don’t b so mean guys. I wouldn’t use bitch as a def.
    I can’t see her taking out the trash, she’s to prissy.
    girly proper lady like sweet nice girl

    5. prissy
    Excessively prim and proper, very picky or constantly primping.
    The young countess looked daggers at her clothing designer; she hated these prissy dresses and his even prissier attitude.

    The girl carefully lifted her teacup, too prissy to allow her tea to spill all over her lace dress.
    prim and proper prim proper ettiquette excessive frilly polite fastidious particular fussy primp pristine high-maintenance sycophant yes-man

    6. prissy
    Yall are so rude. Prissy is none of those things. The correct definition is prim and proper. Look it up.
    The girl looked very prissy holding her teacup.
    priss miss priss proper prisy pris

    7. prissy
    prissy means none of this.prissy is when your cutsy,elegant,classy,and sophisticated,and primpy.
    ariel is prissy
    prissy priss primp primpy primpcess

    9. prissy
    Self-centered, bitchy, can’t take any pain, when sees the Bloody Penguin Game starts crying/”omg! omgomgomg!!! you’re so cruel tristan!”, selfish.
    See slut, bitch, biatch.
    Most commonly female.
    (enter name here) is such a prissy I can’t believe her/him.

    Argh stop acting so prissyish!

    Har har har, you are such a prissy.

    10. prissy
    A guy who is acting very fruity and gay like.
    The prissy boy went around the class dancing and wanting to hug boys.

    11. prissy
    The prissy ones are, complete whores who have sex with every second guy they see on the street. They usually claim to be going for “respect” yet they think that if they have sex with people for money, it will GET them respect.

    Completely stuck up, all of which should be lined up and shot.

    I thank god I am not friends with any of them.
    All prisses should be killed, slowly and painfully.

    +++++

    I’m not going to stop using it.

    I don’t know what you should do.

    But I want ‘Tis Himself to know what I hear when he directs that word at me.

  139. says

    Tony:

    Where is this place you get chocolate with red pepper?

    https://avamariechocolates.com/Default.aspx

    I would have [kicked TF out].

    Same here. Because, really, who the hell cares if sexist assholes whine and carp about that shit. They’re going to do so no matter what. It’s more important to take a stand as not tolerating dismissal of sexism.

    Mattir:

    we need MORE insults related to obsessive and annoying-to-others masturbatory habits

    Indeed. It’s perfectly okay to masturbate in private. Doing so in public? Not so much.

    But I suppose I’m “kink-shaming” there.

    Ixchel:

    I don’t know what you should do.

    But I want ‘Tis Himself to know what I hear when he directs that word at me.

    Point taken. I would hesitate to use it to describe a gay man, because of the baggage.

    OTOH, as much as femininity is stigmatized, I would argue that some stereotypically feminine behaviors are not positive ones (I’ll happily blame patriarchal socialization for that), and words describing them will seldom be free of gender-policing taint. The synonym for “prissy” that first came to my mind was “priggish,” but one of its meanings is “dandy, fop.”

  140. hotshoe says

    Tony –

    Where is this place you get chocolate with red pepper? My roommate, T, absolutely *loves* chocolate (along with coffee, cheese, and peanut butter). She would flip out over that stuff.

    Dagoba Chocolate makes a chile-chocolate bar, called Xocolatl Bar. I’ve eaten them several times, not very spicy, quite delicious.

    They are available at Whole Foods as well as some ordinary supermarkets in the US – they’re headquartered in Oregon so I expect their availability favors west coast. Sad, their website doesn’t have a “Find A Store Near You” feature.

    Likely Dagoba is not the answer Ms. Daisy Cutter will supply as to the source of chocolate w/chili flakes, but hope it’s an interesting answer, anyways.

  141. says

    @Tony:
    They gave me some anti-nauseants and told me to take a double daily dose of Prilosec for the foreseeable future. It’s helped a bit so far.

    Where is this place you get chocolate with red pepper

    Most specialty chocolate shops around here have some.
    @weakswimmer #169:
    We typically fill the bathtub with cold water, and then dunk ourselves in it periodcally through the day.

    RE:David Tosh:
    Never heard of the asshole before today, sounds like that was no loss.

  142. pipenta says

    Chocolate with red pepper is nice.

    Chocolate with black pepper, and perhaps a bit of sea salt, well that is awesome…

  143. karlvonmox says

    I havent been banned yet, so let me continue to throw in a dissenting voice to the mob here and there.

    First off, lets start with where I agree with PZ. I agree that Thunderf00t had an incredibly sloppy writing style that was often unclear. I also agree that having the youtube poll to try to prove a point about the opinions of the broader rationalist community was incredibly stupid, and shows a complete lack of scientific integrity as PZ said.

    However, these points were not enough to convince PZ to kick thunderf00t out by his own admission. The point that PZ makes is that FTB stands for equality and social justice, and that what thunderf00t wrote was contrary to these goals. This is where PZ and the rest of the goons here always have and continue to make the same fatal mistake. Just because we demand more evidence other than hearsay and anonymous anecdotes to convince us that harassment is some sort of widespread problem at conventions doesn’t mean you can say that we oppose womens rights and equality. Just because me/thunderf00t/others might say that FTB spends a disproportionate amount of attention on this issue does not give you justification to brand any of us as bitter mysoginists. Just because a woman might think that Rebecca Watson overreacted/Richard Dawkins was right does not mean you can call her some dogmatist ideological term like gender traitor or sister punisher. To tell thunderf00t that he doesn’t understand the term “freethought” and lumping him in with creationists and other loons is disgraceful, and only shows more sloppy narrow ideological thinking. The brand of feminism advanced by PZ and others on FTB has never been about political goals (since no one has ever said they oppose things like reproductive rights or equal pay laws), it’s been about faux victimization and special treatment to a select group of hysterics. One doesn’t need a youtube poll to know that this does not represent the broader secular community.

  144. carlie says

    Just because we demand more evidence other than hearsay and anonymous anecdotes to convince us that harassment is some sort of widespread problem at conventions doesn’t mean you can say that we oppose womens rights and equality.

    Actually, yes, it does. Particularly since you’ve made the telling mistake of calling it hearsay and anonymous, when the first comments were all made by women who were relating their own experiences. Elisions, indeed. Throwing your own biases around without noticing them is not being a good skeptic.

  145. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Multiple posters arguing “Rape jokes are awesome!” in the Tosh thread? Fucking Karlvomit in the lounge? Fuck this shit.

  146. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Josh:

    You all cannot believe the disgusting, horrific things people are tweeting about the woman Daniel Tosh thought it was funny to threaten with gang rape during his performance. My God.

    Oh, I’ve heard more than enough from that festering pile of excrement.
    What say you and I hop over to his next show and give him a Pharyngula response?

    ~~

    Nutmeg:

    Thanks, Cipher. I may try to replace it with “asshole” instead, just because I’ll be more comfortable with that.

    I’ve had several conversations with different people about making different word choices in conversation so as not to offend anyone based on unchangeable physical/mental attributes. I don’t find ‘jerk’ to be one such word. I’m going to need to check into that.

    ~~

    carlie @86:

    Where would you like your freshly made gold n silver Internet delivered (along with fresh outta the oven Krispy Kreme donuts)?

    ~~

    Caerie:

    Plus, hey, anuses can be fun, and I can’t say the same for those I’ve likened to that body part.

    …crickets chirping…
    (I cannot comment since I have no experience with human assholes…none at all…

    ~~

    Audley @96:
    When is your due date?

    ~~

    jjgdenisrobert:

    Problem is, PZ, that you DID straw man tf00t. Big time. The fact that you are still unable to admit this considerably undermines your own argument.

    What the hell?????!!!!!
    Where did you idiotic shitheads come from?
    3 of you in the same day?
    GET OUT!

    ~~
    bigerjohanssen @101:
    You provide some of the best links. Thanks!

    ~~
    Hayden:

    I don’t see how that is a fair paraphrase at all.

    Perhaps it’s a reading comprehension problem on *your* part.

    Go back and reread Ace of Sevens comment @ 111.
    Look for the bolded portion.
    Read.
    Comprehend.
    Then go away.

    ~~

    carlie @146:
    I vote: wicked cool!

    ~~

    Josh @162:

    Take him. He’s yours. (what movie is that from?)

    ~~

    irenedelse:

    My, my, PZ, a YouTube video, and maybe soon a tattoo? You’re getting really hip these days!

    But the burning question is:
    What does a Thunderf00t tattoo look like?
    :)

  147. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Cipher, it’s actually quite pleasant over in Z space at the moment.

  148. Rey Fox says

    Just because me/thunderf00t/others might say that FTB spends a disproportionate amount of attention on this issue does not give you justification to brand any of us as bitter mysoginists.

    The reason that a disproportionate amount of attention is paid to this is because eminently reasonable harassment policies are being carped at by a load of douchebags.

    And you’ve shown your misogyny time and time again, and so I really don’t care to hear any more of your whiny denial of it.

  149. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    What Daniel Tosh did to that woman comes as no surprise. His comedy is just disgusting.

    He does comedy?

  150. says

    @177: I won’t dispute you over this case; but I wouldn’t use UrbanDictionary as the go-to reference for word meanings.

    It can certainly be used to demonstrate that some people use a particular word as a slur of some sort (which I guess is all you needed to do here)… but given that its database is populated entirely by anonymous internet users, pretty much every negative word ends up with at least a few definitions tying to gays-as-bad or women-as-bad.

    (I looked up “snob”, which I’d hoped would be a relatively neutral comparison; while the top definitions were mercifully free of slurs, almost all the examples were female, and the thesaurus at the top includes “bitch”, “whore” and “slut”.)

    Of course, this doesn’t actually improve things at all. But I think it indicates that the UD ‘community’ probably features concentrated homophobia and misogyny to a greater degree than the world at large.

  151. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Ok, can the regulars please assure me that there aren’t usually more than 5 fuckwittted trolls that venture here on a daily basis?
    Seriously, now karlvonmox is here tossing out the “show me proof that you’ve been harassed” line of B.S.
    I need a fucking bottle of liquor to drink!
    Hey Shithead:
    When a woman says she’s been harassed, the absolutely *wrong* response is “how do I know you’re telling the truth?”

    The HELL is wrong with you thunderously moronic, imbecilic, asshole ThunderFuck supporters?

  152. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Ok, can the regulars please assure me that there aren’t usually more than 5 fuckwittted trolls that venture here on a daily basis?

    I can’t actually assure you of that, but this TET is worse than usual because of the video at the top.

  153. says

    Also, rules exist for a reason.

    “Never read the Youtube comments.”

    I broke my own rule, and now I have suffered for it.

  154. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    Karlvonpox wrote:

    One doesn’t need a youtube poll to know that this does not represent the broader secular community.

    Even if this were true – which I doubt it is – why doesn’t the ‘broader secular community’ just fuck off and start their own blog network where they can ignore the problems of misogyny entirely and let FtB do their thing?

    Why do you think the blog owners care whether people like you think they represent ‘the broader secular community’?

    If it turns out you do represent the ‘broader secular community’, I (for one) want nothing to do with your regressive, status quo protecting, dudebro bullshit; I suspect that’s also true of PZ, who I suspect has no qualms whatsoever about you distancing yourselves from him – in fact, I fully believe he welcomes it.

    Why would anyone with any sense at all want to be in the majority when the majority are fucking assholes?

    Fuck me but you people are stupid.

  155. says

    @Tony
    IMHO the problem is that they set a low bar for Skepticism, congratulate themselves on meeting it and then presume they’re of the 1% of the smartest for figuring out the Toothfairy isn’t real. 90% of Skepticism seems to bethinking that not being taken in by obvious bullshit means you’re right about everything else and teh smartasst!

  156. says

    @201. Yep. I’d add they are more interested in feeling like special skeptical snowflakes than actually being skeptical, which takes work.

  157. Pteryxx says

    Also, rules exist for a reason.

    “Never read the Youtube comments.”

    I broke my own rule, and now I have suffered for it.

    Kagato: there’s a plugin for that.

    http://boingboing.net/2012/07/10/browser-extension-converts-you.html

    Tanner Stokes writes:

    “I loathe YouTube comments. Here’s a simple browser extension to convert them to ‘herp derp’. If you insist on reading the original (which is highly discouraged), click the comment.”

    Ladies and gentlemen, Herp Derp YouTube Comments.

    Chrome, Safari, Opera, Firefox all supported. THANK YOU, DEAR MAN.

  158. says

    Mattir:
    (Gonna take a few chunks, ‘cos you gave me a lot of info!)

    Audley – as someone who breastfed twins for 30 months, I think I am qualified to say that you do not have to give up spicy food, alcoholic beverages, caffeine, or anything else while breastfeeding.

    That’s exactly what I thought. I consulted the pregnancy book that I’ve been using (Your Pregnancy Week By Week) and asked a couple of moms I know (not moms in their 30s– they’re the ones pushing this bullshit) and the More Reliable Sources™ have said pretty much what you did.

    (It seems so, ah, American-centric, doesn’t it? I mean, what do women from cultures that have a much spicier cuisine than ours do when they’re breastfeeding, if spice is so bad for the baby?)

    What you do have to realize is that what you eat is in your breastmilk, and thus is being ingested by DarkSpawn. I learned this the hard way, when the Spawns quit sleeping around 6-8 weeks and were like little irritable wailing cocaine-withdrawal babies. I was, of course, drinking about 8 cups of coffee a day, out of total exhaustion. I figured it out after a couple of weeks, cut back to one cup per day, first thing in the morning, and all was good. We all slept for weeks after that.

    I think I’ve got a couple of things working in my favor here:
    1) I’ve cut my caffeine consumption down to the equivalent of 1/2 cup of coffee a day (from a minimum of 4 before I was pregnant). I know that I will be getting waaaaaaay less sleep, but I won’t be battling caffeine withdrawal at the same time as losing sleep.

    2) I’m only having one Spawn! :D

    But I totally understand your point and it makes perfect sense– DarkSpawn will be eating what I’m eating. But I’ve got to think there’s a certain amount of “processing” that happens before the nutrients become breast milk. It’s not like I’ll be leaking chicken wings out of my nips.

    Basically be aware that if DarkSpawn is irritable or having digestive weirdness, it might be diet, try cutting out common irritants (cow’s milk, cruciform vegetables, onions/garlic, wheat, and phenols (found in many fruits, especially red wines and purple grape juice).

    Once again, makes sense. It does amuse me that the foods that may actually present a problem are never the ones that Woo Moms are worried about.

    I’m also struck by the assumption that I’m going to give up my entire life in deference of my Spawn and I’ve gotta say fuck that. Of course I’m going to do everything to keep her happy and healthy, but I really don’t understand those women are so willing to give up everything they enjoy just because they squeezed a baby out. I’ve got to have something that makes me happy, you know? And food is so basic that even when I’m in the hectic first months, I can still do something enjoyable for myself. That’s what I resent– it’s like I’m expected to sacrifice everything for the sake of the baby.

    (Interesting to note: I’ve already been warned away from juice during pregnancy because it’s pretty much just empty calories. I was never a big juice drinker in the first place, so it hasn’t been a big deal.)

    (Check with a certified lactation consultant – not a wooish amateur – for the actual list of stuff that has been established to pass into breastmilk and cause irritability or digestive problems in nurslings. There is research stuff on this, not just old wives tales.)

    I’ll be meeting with a real lactation consultant soon! I’ll ask her for a list.

    Sorry for the rant. It’s just that dietary woo is bizarre, and not everyone has the same sensitivities. Announcing cast iron rules and warning pregnant women about the severity of the rules is stupid.

    OMG, this. I’m surrounded by food woo as it is* and I get really frustrated when that pointless shit gets pushed on me. Actual breast feeding tips are greatly appreciated, of course, but telling me that I absolutely cannot eat X, Y, and Z for no reason just pisses me off.

    Also, your lovely rant is exactly why I ♥ the Horde. Good, reliable, real information is what I’m after.

    *Eat Right For Your Type, people!

  159. says

    @ ixchel #177:

    Uh, some linkfail, here. Not easy to parse. And I agree with kagato #195 about Urban Dictionary as a reference. Heh. Apart from that, YMMV. I had always perceived “prissy” as related to “fussy”, but maybe I was just influenced by the rhyme.

    @ Ms Daisy Cutter #178:

    The synonym for “prissy” that first came to my mind was “priggish,” but one of its meanings is “dandy, fop.”

    That was the meaning of “prig” in 1676, yes… More recently, it came to mean someone putting excessive importance on correction of manners. And dandy‘s meaning evolved with time, too, and acquired positive connotations that “fop” didn’t.

    Though I agree that any word with some kind of gender-policing baggage is problematic. I’d rather say “fussy” or “snob” if someone is obsessed by manners and appearances, or “pedant” if they argue endlessly about the meaning of words.

    (And, erm, I know, I know! Guilty as charged on that last count! *grin*)

    @karlvonmox:

    Your privilege-based hyperskepticism is noted. Now, the appropriate thread for you to argue in that vein is here –> TZT. May your comments gather the feedback they deserve!

    @ Tony:

    But the burning question is:
    What does a Thunderf00t tattoo look like?
    :)

    Er… I’m portraying now a naked foot hit by lightning and surrounded by angry clouds, with mighty Zeus looking from on high! o__Ô

  160. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    but given that its database is populated entirely by anonymous internet users, pretty much every negative word ends up with at least a few definitions tying to gays-as-bad or women-as-bad.

    (I looked up “snob”, which I’d hoped would be a relatively neutral comparison; while the top definitions were mercifully free of slurs, almost all the examples were female, and the thesaurus at the top includes “bitch”, “whore” and “slut”.)

    Of course, this doesn’t actually improve things at all. But I think it indicates that the UD ‘community’ probably features concentrated homophobia and misogyny to a greater degree than the world at large.

    But your example of “snob” is quantitatively different than what I cited.

    I think what you’re pointing out — “at least a few” — is possibly a useful baseline-of-UD-sexism; collect several examples like snob and they might be used for normalization.

    Right now the #3 definition of snob is ungendered, and #5 fails the Bechdel test but is not derogatory toward women or men who do gender differently.

    Here’s the whole thesaurus entry for snob: “bitch rich stuck up elitist pretentious prep asshole arrogant jerk preppy snobby posh yuppie loser idiot stuck-up whore slut spoiled brat”. Looks like 3/20 are patriarchal.

    In comparison, here’s the thesaurus for prissy: bitch priss stuck up annoying girly whore gay shit snobby arrogant asshole feminine slut stuck-up anal ass cunt ego lame materialistic Minimum 7/20.

    The definitions for snob are “someone” “someone” “someone”. It’s not until #10 that we get to one that begins “Those girls who”.

    With “prissy” it starts much earlier: “Femininely arrogant”, “Very dainty girl. Very much lady like.”

    I think we can infer that we’re seeing more than the baseline sexism and homophobia of that website here; this word brings out something extra.

    +++++
    Anyway, other uses beyond UD.

    I won’t link to this one because it is pure evil, but feel free to cut and paste:tmq2.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/video-ann-coulter-calls-prissy-boy-edwards-a-she-on-hannity/

    Here’s one that’s not intended as derogatory; warning, though, this has a squicky overtone of incest:www.experienceproject.com/stories/Was-Moms-Special-Girly-Boy/1682784

    And back to derogatory, wherein prissy is opposed to masculine and that’s a bad thing: http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Hate-Prissy-Men/134748

  161. says

    Wow, this is one of the most hypocritical videos I’ve ever seen!

    “We believe that reason and justice dictate that every person deserves equal treatment.”

    LOLOLOLOLOL! Unless, of course, those people happen to believe in God or criticize Myers’ and the rest of Team FTB. Then, they deserve censorship, insult and disparagement. I haven’t facepalmed or laughed this hard in a while.

  162. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    cl wrote:

    I haven’t facepalmed or laughed this hard in a while.

    Well, of course you haven’t; it’s practically impossible to do either of those things when your head is as jammed into your ass as yours evidently is.

  163. says

    Oh no! Don’t disagree or criticize the status quo!

    Ing: Gerund of Death,

    Cl is too obvious a troll to even bother with.

    Yet, you bothered to reply, didn’t you?

  164. says

    I am amused at how some people are far more upset about this than I am, and demand that I stop fighting. This is ALL DONE. The decisions were made the mess cleaned up, we’re not going back; I just got a fair number of people insisting that I explain our decisions. Does that video sound like I’m all upset and angry and thrashing about?

  165. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    cl wrote:

    Yet, you bothered to reply, didn’t you?

    Hahaha, troll thinks Ing’s talking to hir. Newsflash, genius; these comments are not personal, one-on-one communications.

  166. A. R says

    [A. R carts in disaster relief supplies from TZT]

    OK, so for those who need it, we have:

    - Troll-away spray (100% reason-based)
    - Slime-away liquid
    - Banhammer target painting laser
    - 100 decaying porcupines
    - 10,000 liters of fresh Grog
    - Popcorn

  167. says

    LOLOLOLOLOL! Unless, of course, those people happen to believe in God or criticize Myers’ and the rest of Team FTB. Then, they deserve censorship, insult and disparagement

    Yeah, lolololol fucknut. For the seventy millionth time, no one has been “censored,” since My Pal Foot Foot still has his YouTube channel and followers, is free to start his own fucking blog and say what the fuck he wants.
    As are you–just not necessarily here, especially if you’re going to keep chucking the same bullshit out over and over again.
    As for treating everyone equally, that does not mean any idea you espouse is required to be respected. And if you espouse ideas that are harmful, hateful, and unevidenced, you will be judged accordingly.
    Censorship? Not really within the power of one blogging network. But since you obviously don’t know what the fuck the word even means, I’m sure you won’t get that.
    And now you can get back to your regularly scheduled lolololol drool-fest.

  168. chiptuneist says

    Lol, for great comedy read cl’s new blog post. “I have no idea what’s goin’ on…”

  169. ibyea says

    @Ing
    Personally, I think a decent chunk of the skeptic movement is weaksauce. It is unwilling to ask hard questions, unwilling to confront people like Penn about their libertarianism, tackling only fundamentalism in religion, instead of the very concept of blind faith, uncaring about bigotry and human decency, etc. I am starting to wonder what use is it if it is not used to overthrow basic assumptions society has held for millenia, and make lives better.

  170. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Rey Fox:

    They really really want to join our treehouse club, don’t they?

    They aren’t even worthy to enter the outhouse, let alone the treehouse.

    ~~

    Wowbagger:

    Newsflash, genius

    These idiots geniuses only respond to soundbites. Newsflashes are too long.
    We’re talking ‘fire bad, tree good’ type soundbites.

  171. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    A.R.:

    OK, so for those who need it, we have:

    - Troll-away spray (100% reason-based)
    - Slime-away liquid
    - Banhammer target painting laser
    - 100 decaying porcupines
    - 10,000 liters of fresh Grog
    - Popcorn

    Hmmmm, what to choose…?

    Popcorn is out. I eat that with activities that I enjoy. Root canals for instance.
    The grog should be reserved for celebrations or bad news.
    Even the porcupines want nothing to do with Thunderdud’s followers.
    There isn’t enough Troll-away spray for the 5 trolls we’ve had here today.
    That leaves slime-away liquid and banhammer target painting laser. Can we combine the two? Perhaps coating the trolls in slime-away liquid while they’re on a slip n slide as they are targeted with the banhammer laser.

    ~~

    In other news, why are people worried about Mitt Romney’s overseas financial holdings?

  172. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Please do not take this personally, chiptuneist, but fuck you for encouraging me to go back to cl’s blog.

    He know shit about science.

    There are plenty of other examples of excessively large conclusions being drawn from mere smidgeons of evidence. The Hesperopithicus tooth found in Nebraska in 1922 gained immediate acceptance as a transitional form and thus evidence of human evolution, so much so that it was presented by evolutionists as “expert testimony” in the famous Scopes trial of 1925. Two years later, the complete skeleton was found and proven to have belonged to an extinct pig. Similarly, Colorado Man was constructed from a single tooth that was later found to have belonged to the horse family. Ape Man was also found in Colorado and exhibited as evidence of macroevolution in a state museum, but the skull later turned out to be that of a pet monkey. A bone found near Seattle, claimed to be an ancient human fibula, turned out to be part of a bear’s hind leg. The famous Piltdown Man, regarded until the mid-twentieth century as one of the important missing links, was later formally pronounced to have been a clever hoax that fooled all the anthropological experts for over forty years.

    He does not seen to understand that not scientists espoused these ideas. He also does not understand the self correct nature of science if the procedures are followed.

    (Chiptuneist, just in case you do not know, I was kidding about what I said about you.)

  173. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    feralboy12:

    But since you obviously don’t know what the fuck the word even means, I’m sure you won’t get that.

    Perhaps we need a new rule:
    If you’re going to come to TET and whine about Thunderfapwit being mistreated, you must-
    A: read his original post for comprehension
    B: consult a dictionary on the meaning of ‘freethought’, ‘censor’, and ‘bully’
    and, most importantly,
    C: Don’t post in TET. Go to TZT.

    ~~

    I’m starting to wonder if many of these Deeply Dumb followers of Thundercrapfest even know how this whole discussion of sexual harassment began. Do they know what the central idea behind all of this is?
    In case any of you fucking idiotic. misogynistic, shithead, douchebags doesn’t understand:
    Many women at atheist/skeptic conventions have been sexually harassed.
    They don’t want to be sexually harassed.
    They want AND DESERVE to attend these meetings and feel safe from sexual harassment.
    They want the various convention organizers to create sexual harassment policies.
    Their allies don’t want them to be sexually harassed.
    Their allies believe women should be able to attend these meetings and feel safe from sexual harassment.
    Their allies want convention organizers to create sexual harassment policies.

    If you oppose the above or have a hard time understanding *any* of that,
    YOU
    CAN
    FUCK
    OFF.

  174. Rey Fox says

    It could be that, next to the ingrained attitudes of the privileged towards other races, sexes, and etc., ridding one’s mind of God is easy.

  175. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    It is unwilling to ask hard questions, unwilling to confront people like Penn about their libertarianism,

    I’ve been meaning to ask about libertarianism. I’m not familiar enough with the ideology to make a judgment on it. I have read what some people have said about libertarianism. One of my closest friends (and roomie) considers herself a Libertarian. Can someone recommend a reliable source I can use to educate myself?

  176. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Also, disagreeing with Chunderfoot=bad! Mean u on enemy team!

    Oog.

  177. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    {Trigger Warning: Sexism in Games & DudeBrah defending it. Enraging}

    OMFG.

    I hate games. I hate gaming. I hate the douchebags that are gamers.

    Fucking A!

    This is what set me off:
    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/

    Specifically, the Zyra sneak peak. She’s fucking naked for fanservice.

    I play this game and I hate how they treat women characters in game. They aren’t all this bad, but seriously the majority are.

    You can go the the link at the top,Game Info, click on champions and see what they have already in game.

    I’d link to the pages directly but since you have to have a lvl 5 account to comment, I don’t know what will show up if I link to specifics.

    FFS they have a French Maid Nidalee skin that on the model literally has a detailed vulva. This is a game where you are looking at the top of your characters head at an angle and controlling them. The only way to see it is to look at it in a model viewer online. Why do this?!?

    I understand this is hard to understand if you don’t play the game, don’t want to click through randomly to find the stuff or just can’t deal with this crap right now. I just needed to vent in a place with other people who won’t defend this bullshit. Yelling at my computer screen was not helping me vent.

  178. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Can someone recommend a reliable source I can use to educate myself?

    Me! And Walton! We’re ex-libertarians.

    What exactly do you want to know about? If you just want to know what libertarians believe, they are a reliable enough source for that.

    If you want to know what libertarians are like, this is a good start: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934

  179. pip r.lagenta says

    As a fan of both Thunderf00t and PZ Myers, I was very distressed and confused by the heated conflict that seemed to appear out of nowhere. While I disagreed with what Thunderf00t had written at Freethoughtblogs, the reaction to his views seemed wildly over-blown. I witnessed others try to resolve their confusion, as well. Questions were asked, and the response was vitriol and abuse. The philosophy of “Those Who Are Not Friends Are Enemies” seemed counterproductive and surprising. This video by PZ Myers helps, a lot, in assisting me to understand what is going on. Thank you. Fool that I was, I had not realized the strong allegiance to the Freethought movement that Freethoughtblogs demands. I have strongly supported, and I will continue to support, the Freethought movement, so much of it as I understand. But (and here is the rub) I am ignorant of various aspects, and details, of the Freethought movement. I seek knowledge, I cannot yet proclaim it. I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy. By admitting to ignorance, I cannot demonstrate the allegiance to the Freethought movement that would be, otherwise, expected. To Freethoughtblogs, then, I am to be reviled as “anti-FTB” or troll, no better than VenomFangX or Kurt Cameron… as (I predict) the response to this comment will reveal.

  180. weakswimmer says

    Rev. BigDumbChimp, #194

    He does comedy?

    It’s apparently supposed to be comedy, but it’s very bad comedy if it qualifies. He just says horrid things and his audience laughs. Anyone unfamiliar with his thing isn’t missing anything good, or even necessarily mediocre. I wish his time slot on Comedy Central (which isn’t basic cable where I live) was taken by something fun and funny. [/rant]

  181. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    JAL she also appears to be in imminent danger of having a broken spine, plus she has no internal organs.

  182. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy. By admitting to ignorance, I cannot demonstrate the allegiance to the Freethought movement that would be, otherwise, expected. To Freethoughtblogs, then, I am to be reviled as “anti-FTB” or troll, no better than VenomFangX or Kurt Cameron… as (I predict) the response to this comment will reveal.

    We know, we know. Please don’t throw you in this here briar patch.

  183. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    There’s a couple of critiques of that paper linked in the references section of pharyngula DOT wikia DOT com/wiki/libertarians

    If you want to see libertarians explaining what they’re about, just google Paul OR libertarian site:freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula

    They pop up in every such thread.

  184. chiptuneist says

    Janine

    He know shit about science.

    He knows shit about everything. Have you seen the post about Dawkins, and the victim blaming and laughing at sexual assault from him in the comments? Don’t bother seeking it out if you haven’t, I’m sure you get the point.

    (Chiptuneist, just in case you do not know, I was kidding about what I said about you.)

    Oh, it’s all good. I know where I am, so I made sure to pack my most finely calibrated sarcasm detector!

  185. ibyea says

    @JAL
    Unfortunately, this kind of crap is way too common in gaming.

    Honestly, the gaming community are kind of stupid and hypocritical. Gamers say they want their medium to grow up and be respected, but their actions prevent such thing from happening. In fact, deep inside, it looks like they really don’t want their medium to grow. They want it to be just for them.

  186. says

    As a fan of both Thunderf00t and PZ Myers, I was very distressed and confused by the heated conflict that seemed to appear out of nowhere.

    blah blah blah PZ is mean I lost respect for both

    ok let me go back and read now.

    Yup

    One sentence. I literally was able to guess the rest of the thought from just the first sentence. Congratulations, turn in your brain and take your wool coat!

  187. chiptuneist says

    I am ignorant of various aspects, and details, of the Freethought movement. I seek knowledge, I cannot yet proclaim it. I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy. By admitting to ignorance, I cannot demonstrate the allegiance to the Freethought movement that would be, otherwise, expected. To Freethoughtblogs, then, I am to be reviled as “anti-FTB” or troll, no better than VenomFangX or Kurt Cameron… as (I predict) the response to this comment will reveal.

    LOL! That was a really nice try. I mean, now if I criticize any aspect of what you’ve just said I’m just proving your point, right? Sneaky. I’ve got to give you some credit, that’s SLIGHTLY better than what most others have tried, so I’ll give you pi/10.

  188. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    chiptuneist—it’s actually hilarious when you contemplate it. That maudlin soliloquy really is exactly what the slimepitters hear in their heads.

  189. says

    pip r.lagenta:

    I am ignorant of various aspects, and details, of the Freethought movement. I seek knowledge, I cannot yet proclaim it. I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy.

    “There, there.”

    *pats the deluded fellow on the head*

    This is a common misconception about the Pharyngulhorde. We don’t actually eat dissenters alive, y’know. Just nibble a little on them… in between bludgeoning them (not literally, natch!) with links, testimonies and infodumps. Sometimes, they even… gasp, they learn something!

  190. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy.

    That’s just sad.

  191. chiptuneist says

    ibyea

    Honestly, the gaming community are kind of stupid and hypocritical. Gamers say they want their medium to grow up and be respected, but their actions prevent such thing from happening. In fact, deep inside, it looks like they really don’t want their medium to grow. They want it to be just for them.

    QFT. I really DO want the medium of gaming to grow up, I think it COULD have a lot of potential, but you’re pretty spot on here. Extra Credits is generally being a force for good, and Anna Anthropy has done some pretty amazing stuff in terms of raising awareness of trans* issues in gaming (if you can stand lo-fi art games, you should check out dys4ia), so there are a few good things happening, but then you look at what’s happening with Anita Sarkeesian and that HORRIBLE trailer for Hitman Absolution and so on and it’s clear that most of the gaming community is pretty fucking terrible.

  192. chiptuneist says

    Josh

    it’s actually hilarious when you contemplate it. That maudlin soliloquy really is exactly what the slimepitters hear in their heads.

    Is the signal transmitted from a single source, or are there multiple worldwide transmission points? We NEED to know this!

  193. A. R says

    chiptuneist: It would appear that the slimepit transmits information to its residents through two conduits, the remnants of the old one at ERV, and the new slimepit.

  194. chiptuneist says

    A.R.

    My word! It’s GROWING!

    Or.. just… becoming more widely distributed while not actually increasing in density. I’m not really sure.

  195. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Does that video sound like I’m all upset and angry and thrashing about?

    A calm reasoned voice is a sign that an adult is speaking. My guess is that this lot only gets spoken to by an adult when they are scolded. Hence the confusion on their part.

  196. says

    Giliell, how far along are you in The Handmaid’s Tale? I know what you mean about the car wreck. It takes a certain suspension of disbelief to buy into the idea that such an extremist ideology could suddenly take root in the U.S., but at the same time, I only found myself in doubt as to the feasibility of certain aspects of the takeover, and not the reality of the regressive worldview represented by the leaders of the Republic of Gilead existing in microcosm today, and certainly looming larger and more powerful in 1985 when the novel was written.

    For example, it would just be completely impractical to try to seize all of the bank accounts and assets of all the women and assign them to their nearest male guardian. It would be a nightmare to even attempt to do this electronically because there isn’t any sort of database anywhere that contains that sort of mapping. This isn’t Saudi Arabia, where all women do in fact have to register a male guardian with the state because of all the things they’re not allowed to do in their own name. And even in Saudi Arabia, women may not be allowed to drive or to vote, but they can at least have their own bank accounts!

    But in 1985, the memories of a USA where women were not allowed to open bank accounts or apply for credit in their own names would have been fresh enough, and banking was still a manual enough process, that this detail would probably have seemed unremarkable.

    So it’s a really weird feeling reading that book today, because it keeps reminding you that things have really come a long way in 27 years, but in some other ways, maybe not so much.

  197. ibyea says

    @chiptuneist
    Actually, while videogames has a while to go, I think some of the potential has been realized. For example, stories like Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask and Mass Effect are very effective because of interactivity.

  198. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Ixchel:
    Thanks for the link.
    While I wouldn’t mind picking your brain a bit about the subject, I know it has come up before in TET and I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that it was more of a been there/done that topic.
    ~~
    pip r.lagenta

    While I disagreed with what Thunderf00t had written at Freethoughtblogs, the reaction to his views seemed wildly over-blown.

    Do you know what Thunderf00t’s view was?
    Do you know the subject that Thunderf00t was commenting on?
    Why do you disagree with Thunderf00t?
    If you do know what the subject being discussed is, and you disagree with Thunderf00t’s views, why do you think the reaction is over-blown?
    ~~

    Dear FSM,
    the above worshipper of Thundaaaaarfoot the Barbarian squeaked by the Monday mark by @30 minutes, hence the gentler response to his all around idiocy. If I had the displeasure of seeing his post before the end of the day (which would have made him #6 on the list of PZ’s bestust friends) I believe my head would have exploded.
    Scanners style head ‘splosion.
    Please give me Jesus shaped chocolate nuggets topped with red pepper flakes and salt n peppa bacon crumbles.
    Thank you.
    (the awe inspiring FSM answers all prayers and flips a coin to determine his response)

  199. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    chiptuneist:

    Or.. just… becoming more widely distributed while not actually increasing in density. I’m not really sure.

    Oh they’re dense all right…

  200. chiptuneist says

    @ibyea

    Oh yeah, I definitely agree. I just find that games that realize that potential as well as Majora’s Mask or Mass Effect are relatively few and far between, although that’s becoming less true all the time, especially now that independent gaming has become more widely known and appreciated. On the other hand, the corporate gaming industry is fucking up left and right, and there is still an EXTREMELY toxic community to contend with. I’m optimistic in a lot of ways, and I LOVE games as a medium, but sometimes I feel like things that are just now beginning to be discussed in earnest should have already been resolved by now.

    Then again, atheist/skeptic community. So I guess that’s true all over.

  201. says

    ixchel #241:

    What exactly do you want to know about? If you just want to know what libertarians believe, they are a reliable enough source for that.

    Not necessarily; I’ve encountered a breed that won’t pin themselves to much more than vague points like the Non Aggression Principle (which, if I have my dogma right, is the Universal Anti-Tax Argument), while whining endlessly about how not all libertarians are Paulbots and you don’t really understand libertarianism.

    (I just loved dealing with that guy. “There are libertarians all over the political spectrum! Here’s the piece of libertarian doctrine that’s always used to prop up a right-wing policy!”

  202. says

    OK, I’m skipping most of this thread, just can’t keep up

    hugs to all those who need them

    Ing
    Good luck with the interview

    Audley
    A good rule of thumb is that things that give you trouble might give the DarkFetus trouble, too. Lots of glutamate make my intestine explode. After I gratefully accepted some convenience-food from my mum, we both had a sleepless night.
    Also, very accidy stuff turns to make their butts look like a baboon’s. Not good either

    PZ
    Please don’t do this again, ever. Don’t put such a video on top of TET. Give it its own thread. You yourself declared this to be the lounge.

  203. jonathanray says

    PZ preaching collegiality is a bit rich considering so many of Pharyngula’s esteemed regular commenters have a chip on their shoulder and are eager to spew vitriol in response to good-faith clueless comments. I’m bracing my anus for the deceased porcupine that will be shoved into it for “tone trolling” in scare quotes.

  204. says

    I’m bracing my anus for the deceased porcupine that will be shoved into it for “tone trolling” in scare quotes.

    Only if you do it, honey, only if you do it.
    We wouldn’t come near you with a 10 ft pole.

    +++++++++
    Damn, I’m packing for Berlin. I’m used to packing a caravan. This is hard

  205. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    jonathanray, porcupines are 100% self-applied. You are offered one with the suggestion of what you should do with it; the rest is up to you.

  206. says

    I also think it might have been better to post the video at TZT or as its own post. But once the trolls have been lured here, it’ll be hard to get them to go over there.. (and no, I’m not gonna go look up the Youtube comments. I’m still shocked by the level of comments I got the one time I did post a video on Youtube)

  207. Muz says

    jonathanray @269

    I think you’ll find this argument doesn’t hold water unless said commenters are given blogs on FTB to spew said rage at the other members.

  208. drbunsen le savant en colère dans une robe d'été belle (la robe est aussi en colère) says

    PZ

    Please don’t do this again, ever. Don’t put such a video on top of TET. Give it its own thread. You yourself declared this to be the lounge.

    QFT and please.

  209. says

    @ 242,

    While I disagreed with what Thunderf00t had written at Freethoughtblogs, the reaction to his views seemed wildly over-blown.

    Your comment is important to us.

  210. says

    PZ preaching collegiality is a bit rich considering so many of Pharyngula’s esteemed regular commenters have a chip on their shoulder and are eager to spew vitriol in response to good-faith clueless comments.

    The concern troll queue is just to your left, take a ticket and get in line.

    Jebus, too much pissing on the rug in this TET.

  211. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Unless, of course, those people happen to believe in God or criticize Myers’ and the rest of Team FTB. Then, they deserve censorship, insult and disparagement. I haven’t facepalmed or laughed this hard in a while.

    Who gives a shit what you do or don’t think? Nothing but drivel, as would be expected from an evidenceless fool. Typical, nothing but tone, no substance which requires evidence.

  212. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    PZ preaching collegiality is a bit rich considering so many of Pharyngula’s esteemed regular commenters have a chip on their shoulder and are eager to spew vitriol in response to good-faith clueless comments. I’m bracing my anus for the deceased porcupine that will be shoved into it for “tone trolling” in scare quotes.

    Where are these good-faith clueless people?

    And for me at least there is a contradiction in terms here. It’s very hard to maintain both cluelessness and good faith – since any reasonable definition of good faith includes due dilligence. Without this “good faith” is just euphemism for “wilfully ignorant”.

    And for most of the time, the trolls JAQ’ing off are painfully transparent.

    Now – could you please show me a bona fidea clueless person that’s given an unreasonable verbal

    Or are you just another dime-a-dozen troll?

  213. says

    PZ

    Please don’t do this again, ever. Don’t put such a video on top of TET. Give it its own thread. You yourself declared this to be the lounge.>/blockquote>

    QFT, indeed. Making this video the top of TET definitely was a mistake.

  214. Beatrice says

    In other news, kittens are tired (except the bouncy one) and one of them is nodding off right in front of the camera. Cute.

  215. Beatrice says

    And now the hyperactive one drove it away.

    Anyway.
    I agree with everyone complaining about the stench in the lounge.

  216. Vilém Saptar says

    Oof, what happened here?

    *toesteps over to A.R’s cart, checks out bottles marked “Grog”, googles “Grog”, smiles contentedly, grabs two, plops on couch, swigs*

    /act like regular>

  217. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    For all that is unholy, do NOT go to the YouTube page and read the comments. The idiots there make our trolls all sound like Sastra by comparison.

  218. says

    For all that is unholy, do NOT go to the YouTube page and read the comments.

    Question is, will Thunderdolt poll the commenters to determine whether he is right ? Skeptic minds want to know.

  219. says

    So, the guy who I was dating never responded to my text message.

    Guess that’s a closed door on my life. Sometimes I make really stupid decisions, and my first sentence to him should have been “if you’re not interested in dating a trans*person, then we should just stick to being friends.”

  220. Moggie says

    Update in re Jules: crisis averted, many thanks to the Horde!

    That’s good to hear, but is Horde assistance coordinated only via FB now? Since I don’t book face, I feel a bit left out. Is Josh running a general fund?

  221. Pteryxx says

    Oh Katherine. *applies kittens*

    (I suspect asking to be friends wouldn’t have gone well, either. I’m sorry.)

  222. carlie says

    Katherine – fuck. I’m sorry, but I guess the silver lining is better to find out now than later.

    Audley – I think the exact same statements apply, in entirely different ways: FUCK! Better to find it now than later.

  223. opposablethumbs says

    Katherine, ::hugs:: :(

    .

    [they said to Audley]

    you can’t eat spicy food when breastfeeding.

    What Mattir said in #134. Also, what the hell do they think half the population of the world do, suddenly give up their typical national diet? Kids all over the subcontinent of India, to think of but one example, are eating what many people in Europe and the USA would consider “spicy food” when they’re still knee-high to a cicada (no I’m not suggesting they’re weaned on something off the scoville scale – friends tell me they start at the mild end and work up to eating whatever the adults are eating, obvs). I don’t know to what extent – if any – nursing mothers change their own diets, but it seems likely that in any case what they eat will still include a lot of things some of us might consider “spicy” and the same goes for toddlers.

    Audley

    I’m also struck by the assumption that I’m going to give up my entire life in deference of my Spawn and I’ve gotta say fuck that. Of course I’m going to do everything to keep her happy and healthy, but I really don’t understand those women are so willing to give up everything they enjoy just because they squeezed a baby out. I’ve got to have something that makes me happy, you know? And food is so basic that even when I’m in the hectic first months, I can still do something enjoyable for myself. That’s what I resent– it’s like I’m expected to sacrifice everything for the sake of the baby.

    QFMFT!!!!! In spades!!!! And shit yeah. It’s not actually doing things with/for/adjusted to accommodate infant that’s the issue – its the fucking shitheaded idiot douchebuckets who think they have the right or duty to dump stupid expectations on you. And the expectation itself, of course, that the mother (oh, not the father. for some straaaange reason) is of course going to be a mere adjunct to the infant from now on. Managed to avoid most of this, personally, due to coincidental circumstances, but the Stupid is strong and makes me so damn pissed off.
    .
    Rev BDC:

    Do you need a nappy?

    And for extra added terminology resonance, a nappy in Proper English ;) is what Some Folks call a diaper. Sounds kind of appropriate.
    .

    am ignorant of various aspects, and details, of the Freethought movement. I seek knowledge, I cannot yet proclaim it. I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy. By admitting to ignorance, I cannot demonstrate the allegiance to the Freethought movement that would be, otherwise, expected. To Freethoughtblogs, then, I am to be reviled as “anti-FTB” or troll, no better than VenomFangX or Kurt Cameron… as (I predict) the response to this comment will reveal.

    Sigh. No. It’s not seeking knowledge (obviously) and it’s not refraining from “demonstrating alleigiance” as you rather pompously put it – it’s writing silly twaddle like ” I understand that this confession marks me as The Enemy” that signals the fact that you’re an idiot. And the same goes for that other oh-you’re-such-meanies commenter.

  224. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    Totally threadrupt.

    I was supposed to come in yesterday for five hours of overtime (which would have made it my preMonday (I guess?)). Wife was also volunteering and we were going to do something fun in the afternoon. Did that happen? In my world? Hah!

    We got out on the highway and were listening to some Dropkick Murphy (mp3 piped through the cars stereo) and I started to hear a growling noise. Which got louder. I silenced the stereo and the growling was still there (shit, it was not the music!). And then a sound like a turbine with a broken blade spooling up began to overpower the growling sound. No power loss from the engine, just more noise than I heard when I threw a rod through the crankcase on a previous car.

    We pulled over. Called our insurance company and got a free tow. I called work and told them I would not be coming in. Neither would Wife.

    Short story? The clutch on the air conditioning compressor went. Tossing the flywheel feeding power to the compressor against the cars frame. And, since the spindle goes through the center of the compressor, it also destroyed the compressor. So there goes $800 down the fucking toilet.

    Luckily, I had the money (fire pay). But it means the stuff I was supposed to catch up on won’t be caught up on.

    I still love the car, but this was not fun.

    Then again, considering how bad it could have been with those horrible noises, I feel happy to have gotten away with only $800.

  225. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    There was a snake in my office this morning. :)

    Cool! What kind?

  226. carlie says

    Oh geez, Og, I’m sorry. We have a dead car at the moment too, taking it in today for diagnosis, so I feel for you.

    Audley, I remember reading that women who keep bland diets in pregnancy and breastfeeding end up having kids who are picker eaters later on precisely BECAUSE they weren’t exposed to a lot of different tastes, so you can come back at them with that. :)

  227. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Tony,

    While I wouldn’t mind picking your brain a bit about the subject, I know it has come up before in TET and I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that it was more of a been there/done that topic.

    Heh, it was an old topic already before the Pharyngulian-Libertarian Wars of 2009.

    But you should feel free to ask as much as you like on TZT.

    +++++
    Setar,

    Not necessarily; I’ve encountered a breed that won’t pin themselves to much more than vague points like the Non Aggression Principle

    This may be slippery, but it may be shallowness (“I’d support anything that doesn’t violate the NAP, but I haven’t thought much about what that might be”), and it may just be an unwillingness to try to teach Libertarianism 101 to an obviously hostile interlocutor.

    You can think of it like a Scientologist not wanting to talk about OT III with a Preclear. Some libertarianism sure sounds evil to those who haven’t spent a thousand hours meditating upon the true meaning of the NAP. But in truth it’s the only truely loving and respectful way of life! Time to read more Hayek. ;)

  228. says

    Oggie,
    Poo, that sucks about your car!

    I’ve been trying to upload a pic of the snake to my blog, but (brace yourself for this) my Android (Google) phone won’t cooperate with Blogger (Google’s blog service). Shocking, no? Anyway, it was just a little harmless local snake– a garter snake, I think. I shuffled him off to the riverbank in a wire basket because we do not need another salesperson!

    Carlie,
    My ancedote (also known as my mom) is that it doesn’t really matter what mom eats, if the kid is going to be picky, she’s going to be picky. My mom loves a wide variety of foods (spicy and non-) and didn’t change her diet when she was breastfeeding. But for the first 10 or so years of her life, my younger sister would only eat hotdogs and Kraft mac ‘n cheese. The rest of us weren’t nearly as bad.

  229. birgerjohansson says

    Katherine,
    hugs if you want them.

    Audley, the reptile guy from Australia would have congratulated you on your luck ;-)

  230. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    I shuffled him off to the riverbank in a wire basket because we do not need another salesperson!

    Hey! I used to be in sales. Don’t insult the poor snake like that. Really.

  231. says

    Wait a second, did I just spot an ixchel transgression ? It can’t be ! Paging the overlord, would you kindly consider removing sgbm’s TET ban ? It’s getting boring in here, and we’re talking about the same stuff anyway.

  232. carlie says

    The advice from the NHS on what to eat when breastfeeding is basically eat the same healthy diet that everyone is advised to eat.

    Pfft. Like red-blooded Americans should trust some foreign commie medical “expert” opinion on what to do with their health.

    ;)

  233. opposablethumbs says

    Bro Og, that’s a real scunner about the car :(

    Glad it didn’t do something horribly undriveable while you were moving at speed, at least, but that doesn’t pay the repair bill :(((

  234. says

    Tony, to Josh:

    What say you and I hop over to his next show and give him a Pharyngula response?

    OMFG. YES. And the addition of Brownian would make a dream team.

    I cannot comment since I have no experience with human assholes…none at all…

    Nonsense. We all do. Especially on this blog site.

    What does a Thunderf00t tattoo look like?

    Maybe something like this.

    BTW, Michael Huben has long had a critique of libertarianism up on his website. There is also Michael Prescott’s post about Ayn Rand’s infatuation with a serial killer. And, just for fun, there’s Typical Libertarian on Tumblr.

    Pteryxx, quoting Tanner Stokes:

    Ladies and gentlemen, Herp Derp YouTube Comments.

    OMG. LOVE.

    Kagato:

    Heh. Only missed “Ron Paul 2012?.

    FTMFW.

    Good points w/r/t Urban Dictionary, too. It has its uses, but, like Wikipedia on controversial topics, it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    cl at #214 has the following blogpost:

    Many of us already know that “Freethought” blogs is just a front for groupthink. That should be evident by the way “freethought” bloggers like JT Eberhard, PZ Myers and Greta Christina arbitrarily censor intelligent dissent. While skimming through the “freethought” blogs I couldn’t help but notice they’ve given “Cristina Rad” a forum now. Anybody else sense the irony? To me, the subtext reads:

    “We’re sophisticated rational atheists and women should not be objectified!”

    “Hey, let’s give this hot, popular blonde a forum!”

    So, according to cl, Cristina Rad has nothing else going for her except that she’s hot and blonde. Noted.

    pip r.lagenta, thank you for your concern.

    Ibyea:

    Honestly, the gaming community are kind of stupid and hypocritical. Gamers say they want their medium to grow up and be respected, but their actions prevent such thing from happening.

    Or, as was said on Think Progress the other day:

    The worst part is there are people in the gaming community who basically dismiss everything as being 12 year old boys being annoying, then when video games are attacked on content they immediately say it’s not just 12 year old boys playing video games.

    Kitty, I’m sorry things didn’t work out. Hugs to you..

    Re babies eating spicy foods: A (white) friend of mine and his wife introduced their son to spicy foods like salsa when he was an infant. He liked them so much that he would continue to reach for them even as he fussed from the discomfort.

    Og, sorry about the repair costs. Cars, like houses, are black holes into which money disappears, never to be seen again.

    Audley:

    Anyway, it was just a little harmless local snake– a garter snake, I think. I shuffled him off to the riverbank in a wire basket because we do not need another salesperson!

    To echo Og, I think it is very mean of you to insult snakes by comparing them to salescritters. (Very cute snake, btw.)

  235. says

    Probably ‘cos PZ figured we’d have a troll problem.

    I rather suspect he got as bored as I with this new politically correct nice TET. Or so I hope. Good to have sgbm back. He’s part of our community.

  236. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Good points w/r/t Urban Dictionary, too. It has its uses, but, like Wikipedia on controversial topics, it has to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Good response here too. It the point is that UD’s baseline of evil is higher than society at large, then compare [UD's entry on the topic in question] with UD’s baseline. That is a useful comparison.

  237. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    What does a Thunderf00t tattoo look like?

    Maybe something like this.

    Incest no bitches?

  238. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I rather suspect he got as bored as I with this new politically correct nice TET. Or so I hope

    There was a discussion on the last iteration of TZT about releasing me into the wild.

    Good to have sgbm back. He’s part of our community.

    Thanks mate.

  239. ImaginesABeach says

    Katherine – Thanks for posting the Scalzi link in the rape thread. I was looking for it recently and couldn’t find it. Also, that post is the reason I bought his books.

  240. says

    @Ixchel:

    See, I have never seen prissy used against gay people and I was gonna be all ‘you’re being ridiculous!’ However, thinking about it, I’ve usually seen it used in relation to feminine qualities. Which is also no good.

    I’ll use it in reference to my own behavior, as I can be quite a bit prissy at times. That’s it tho.

  241. says

    There was a discussion on the last iteration of TZT about releasing me into the wild.

    Seriously ? Apart from the slight nausea the mere fact of us having such a “discussion” induces, I reckon we need more asskickers here, not less. And wait until I read my latest Amazon batch of books on free will, you will wish you got banned…:-)

  242. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Moggie,

    Is Josh running a general fund?

    Unfortunately not.

  243. Utakata says

    @karlvonmox, 183:

    “One doesn’t need a youtube poll to know that this does not represent the broader secular community.”

    If that’s the case then it sounds like FtB are the ones getting hassled for having dissenting views…

    …oh right, you mean our views are wrong and are not dissenting, because they don’t agree with this invisible representation of the “broader secular community” which you didn’t cite. So we should be skeptical of our views instead of your unproven claims…is that what you’re saying?

    I don’t think it works like that. /shug

  244. Vilém Saptar says

    Katherine,
    Sorry it didn’t work out. Yeah, friends may not have been a very good idea either as already suggested.
     
    Audley,
    Snakes. Here in my part of town we have visitations once or twice every year, since I live near a woodsy area. It used to be more frequent, but has since become quite less so. Mostly kraits and an occassional cobra.
     
    Ogvorbis,
    Car breakdown; must feel…guh
     
    Ms. Daisy Cutter,

    I cannot comment since I have no experience with human assholes…none at all…

    Nonsense. We all do. Especially on this blog site.

    Maybe you’re reading that too literally, or actually rather too metaphorically. I could be wrong but, I’m guessing ehm, Tony, uhm meant it as a pun maybe?

    (Or not. And if I am wrong and if this is offensive, I’ll be very embarassed and sorry. I sometimes have a very unreliable, malfunctioning sense of humour/appropriateness, I guess.)
     
    ixchel,
    Welcome back? (I’m new here, but we’ve commented at each other before, er one time)

  245. says

    Ogvorbis
    Argh, sorry about the car

    Katherine
    Sorry about the guy :(

    Audley
    And never forget, formula is not child abuse. Oh, and that shit they’re telling you about it being a perfectly evoled system and that the kid willl always get enough milk? They’re lying.

  246. Vilém Saptar says

    No, reading his comment in full and in context, Tony definitely meant that as a play on words ;)

    (Thank FSM, I was a lil afraid I may have given offense by not being careful enough)

  247. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Er… I’m portraying now a naked foot hit by lightning and surrounded by angry clouds, with mighty Zeus looking from on high! o__Ô

    Isn’t that basically the Monty Python graphic?

  248. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    So, according to cl, Cristina Rad has nothing else going for her except that she’s hot and blonde. Noted.

    And yet, somehow, it’s FTB that lacks critical thinking skills.

  249. says

    Going back to what Carlie said about bland food in pregnancy:
    I’m not sure how flavorful my diet is now effects DarkFetus. Unless you’re saying she can taste through the umbilical cord and if not, the only thing she swallowing right now is amniotic fluid. Plus, it’s not like she’s really “awake” in there anyway, you know?

    Sorry, sorry. I’m sure what I eat will change the flavor of my breast milk, but I just don’t understand how different flavors can/will impact a developing fetus. (Plus, the heartburn! You can’t blame a pregnant woman for having a bland diet– her comfort has to come first.)

    Giliell:
    I wish you could talk to my mom about this. I told her that I wanted to nurse, but I wasn’t ruling out formula just in case. Apparently (no surprise here), she buys into the “perfect system” bullshit.

  250. Pteryxx says

    Audley:

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/08/139033757/babys-palate-and-food-memories-shaped-before-birth

    At 21 weeks after conception, a developing baby weighs about as much as a can of Coke — and he or she can taste it, too. Still in the womb, the growing baby gulps down several ounces of amniotic fluid daily. That fluid surrounding the baby is actually flavored by the foods and beverages the mother has eaten in the last few hours.

    “Things like vanilla, carrot, garlic, anise, mint — these are some of the flavors that have been shown to be transmitted to amniotic fluid or mother’s milk,” says Julie Mennella, who studies taste in infants at the Monell Chemical Senses Center. In fact, Mennella says there isn’t a single flavor they have found that doesn’t show up in utero. Her work has been published in the journal Pediatrics.

  251. dianne says

    Oh, and that shit they’re telling you about it being a perfectly evoled system and that the kid willl always get enough milk?

    There is no such critter as a “perfectly evolved system”. Evolution stops at “good enough not to die before reproductive age”.

    Seconding what Gileill said about formula. If breast feeding works for you great, that’s wonderful, but if it doesn’t you and your baby will be better off if you feed the kid formula than if you struggle to give her breast milk when you aren’t producing enough or it hurts horribly.

  252. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Apart from the slight nausea the mere fact of us having such a “discussion” induces, I reckon we need more asskickers here, not less.

    I think you’re misinterpreting “released into the wild” as banned – to clarify, the discussion was about letting SG back in to TET.

  253. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Thirding Huben’s stuff, it’s pretty good.

    Something I don’t remember if he covers, though, is that there’s no natural distinction between “negative” and “positive liberties”. Robert L Hale’s Coercion and Distribution in a Supposedly Non-Coercive State was one of the first critiques of this artificial distinction (h/t Walton). I wrote a good primer on the concept (not Hale’s work) in the “Daniel Hauser might live now” thread, but I think it’s still in Scienceblogs limbo.

    Economic inequality leads to more and more of the economy being devoted to what Samuel Bowles calls guard labor, which is inherently non-productive. Clifford Shearing’s neofeudalism is another way of looking at this.

    The Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett is recommended reading (h/t KG).

    +++++

    However, thinking about it, I’ve usually seen it used in relation to feminine qualities.

    Right, well, that’s what I was originally getting at. There are straight men who self-identify as sissies too.

    +++++

    And wait until I read my latest Amazon batch of books on free will, you will wish you got banned…:-)

    If you want, go ask in TZT and I will give you free will. For free, tautologically. That’s what compatibilism is; you just redefine it as something that is known to exist.

    +++++
    Hello, Vilém Saptar. My apologies, I don’t remember.

  254. says

    to clarify, the discussion was about letting SG back in to TET.

    I don’t get it, it’s PZ’s joint. If we go by popular vote now, there’d be a few of us missing soon. Not the way forward if you ask me. But hey, I only work here.

  255. Vilém Saptar says

    ixchel,
    Oh, it was just a brief exchange, you wouldn’t remember, probably, so no apologies needed. And I was using my username back then, since I hadn’t nymmed myself this.

    (It was on TZT sub-thread right before you’re banned, and I was just “bigbear” back then, if you want to know)

  256. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    rorschach, just go look if you want to grok it. It’s at the end of the last iteration of TZT.

  257. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    Ohhhhh hi bigbear! I’m still planning to reply to that. I have an email correspondent who watched the discussion and asked me pretty much the same thing, so I’d better get around to it. ;)

  258. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    As for “you wouldn’t remember” … heh.

    Pleased to meet ya, I’m strange gods.

  259. Vilém Saptar says

    ixchel,
    No hurries. In retrospect, I have realized my commentary on that thread could’ve used a bit more thinking and some more reading, and also better wording :)
    Thanks.

  260. says

    Pleased to meet you too, and I am Vilém Saptar :)

    What kind of a name is that anyway ? Ok, did I mention I was out of here…

  261. Vilém Saptar says

    rorschach,
    The firt name in the nym is for the protagonist in a poem.

    I’m not much of a poetry buff, but I was googling around for a nym, and that one I sort of liked.

    The second part is a bit of a uh personal joke / secret *sheepish grin*

  262. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    As for “you wouldn’t remember” … heh.

    *iced tea out the nose*

    :D

  263. Vilém Saptar says

    carlie:

    As for “you wouldn’t remember” … heh.

    *iced tea out the nose*

    and Cipher,

    Yeah, that was a mistake…

    :D

  264. opposablethumbs says

    NHS? Death panels! You crazy commies are probably trying to brainwash my (proto-)baby with your balanced diet agenda!

    Yeah, and just think what would have happened if those crazy death-panel NATIONAL heath service commies had gotten a hold of that there black-holes genius-guy Steve Hicking!!!1!!!elebenty!!1! They woulda death-paneled him fer sure!

  265. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    I just noticed an advert at the top of the blog for the Puritan Hard Drive. Two of the lines?

    . . . I love my Puritan Hard Drive!

    and

    I was totally amazed at what it can do!

    And my 13-year-old mind immediately wondered if it was an advert for a male enhancement device.

  266. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    o.O
    O.o
    Holy shit Caine, that’s a lot of ratlets.

    You’re going to have like 30 little rats to deal with.

    Holy fucking shit.

    I can’t even imagine how hard and stressful this going to be for your house.

    =(

    Hugs & Whatever you need to feel better.

  267. says

    Audley:

    *booze and booze and booze*

    How’s Rubin doing?

    I’m going to get drunk tonight. Fuck the pancreas. Rubin is fine, still her spooky self, adjusting to the box I moved her & the babes into. Right now, I have her on the top half of the Rat Condo (to Esme’s displeasure), while Mister finishes up the second Rat Condo. Oy.

    Richard:

    I’m assuming that’s 15 on top of the 12?

    15 on top of 11. Twentyfuckingsix ratlets. Aaauuuuggggh! I didn’t get a good look yet, but it doesn’t look like there’s a runt in Rubin’s litter, they are look pretty much the same size.

    JAL:

    Holy shit Caine, that’s a lot of ratlets.

    Yes. Yes, it is. *resumes headbanging* Pretty sure Sam is the dad, he spent all night on top of the Rat Condo with his head hanging down, watching Rubin. He’s up there now, watching over Rubin & the ratlets.

  268. chigau (間違っていない) says

    Caine
    Internet rum coming your way.
    Have you a Plan B (or WXY) yet?

  269. opposablethumbs says

    Argh, Caine! Pancreas-friendly USB whisky coming up.

    Do rats form long-term pairs? Just realised when you described Sam’s behaviour that I have no idea if they usually stick with long-term partners or not.

  270. Richard Austin says

    Hrm. 26 ratlets. Maybe name them after cards? You’ve got a couple of suits at least. Like, “Hey, there’s Queen of Diamonds!” “Come here, Five of Hearts!”

    … Sorry, just being silly. I think you’re going to need a bigger office, though. On a more practical note, does having that many together reduce the ability to socialize them to people?

  271. says

    Chigau:

    Have you a Plan B (or WXY) yet?

    The 2nd litter has to be placed for sale (as pets). I know we’re gonna love the little fuckers, but 26? No, I can’t.

    Opposablethumbs:

    Do rats form long-term pairs? Just realised when you described Sam’s behaviour that I have no idea if they usually stick with long-term partners or not.

    I don’t have the slightest idea. I don’t think they do, but given the way Havelock & Esme and Sam & Rubin are behaving, I’m tempted to think otherwise.

    Ing:

    Have you considered training them to commit crimes and becoming a supervillian?

    Ha! Watch out world…

    Hrm. 26 ratlets. Maybe name them after cards? You’ve got a couple of suits at least. Like, “Hey, there’s Queen of Diamonds!” “Come here, Five of Hearts!”

    Heh, it might come to that.

    … Sorry, just being silly. I think you’re going to need a bigger office, though. On a more practical note, does having that many together reduce the ability to socialize them to people?

    My studio is very large, but I can easily expand it in one direction.

  272. says

    I don’t have the slightest idea. I don’t think they do, but given the way Havelock & Esme and Sam & Rubin are behaving, I’m tempted to think otherwise.

    IIRC they do not.

  273. says

    @Ixchel:

    Yea, sometimes my privilege-addled mind forgets that feminine terms are used to call out gay men, that’s what I was trying to said. Like I said, lesson learned, and I will refrain from using the term to describe anyone except for myself.

  274. carlie says

    Caine – my comment on the other post got eaten by the pagination, so I’ll repeat here:

    Were I any good at it, I’d offer to do your taxes for the next five years in return for the fantastic turns of phrase in that porcupine adaptation. I haven’t engaged in the shoving a porcupine up the nether regions meme, but I think I shall adopt the crown of thorns porcupines one.

  275. Pteryxx says

    Yikes Caine. *attaches USB grog-and-hugs tap* At least everybody’s healthy.

    Do rats form long-term pairs? Just realised when you described Sam’s behaviour that I have no idea if they usually stick with long-term partners or not.

    I don’t know for sure either, but rats definitely can form long-term *friendships*. I’ve heard many anecdotes both ways, so I guess rat mates that are also good friends stay together, especially if there aren’t other rats in the colony who butt in. Also, quite often, male rats make good or even wonderful fathers, sitting on pups, taking them back to the nest and such. (And some are terrible – YMMV.) Maybe this experience will be good for Sam…

  276. says

    Carlie:

    Were I any good at it, I’d offer to do your taxes for the next five years in return for the fantastic turns of phrase in that porcupine adaptation. I haven’t engaged in the shoving a porcupine up the nether regions meme, but I think I shall adopt the crown of thorns porcupines one.

    The thought alone is serious reward! Adopt away. :)

  277. cicely. No further comment. says

    Honestly, I totally get the squick of poo, but our bodies don’t get better by NOT having an anus. Thus why the insult?

    Because assholes (and assholes) spew shit?
    -

    ‘prissy’?
    (Connotatively closer to fastidious than to prudish, for mine)

    Needlessly fastidious, at that.
    -
    *looks at karlvonmox’s post @183; begins restlessly fidgetting with package of frozen green beans*
    -

  278. says

    Pteryxx:

    Maybe this experience will be good for Sam…

    Perhaps, however, he is not allowed to be with Rubin or the ratlets, at least not now. We still have the pregnancy prevention problem going. Esme will go in on Aug. 6th to be spayed, we need to set up Rubin for Aug. 14th.

  279. Pteryxx says

    Perhaps, however, he is not allowed to be with Rubin or the ratlets, at least not now. We still have the pregnancy prevention problem going. Esme will go in on Aug. 6th to be spayed, we need to set up Rubin for Aug. 14th.

    *nodnod* He definitely knows they’re important, though. Let it be known if all those spays are a problem.

  280. dianne says

    our bodies don’t get better by NOT having an anus.

    There are critters in the world with a “blind gut”: no waste disposal at the end. The thought has filled me with horror since I first heard of it.

  281. says

    @dianne

    There are critters in the world with a “blind gut”: no waste disposal at the end. The thought has filled me with horror since I first heard of it.

    I sometimes wonder if some of the trolls we get here have that anatomy too. I mean, since they dump their shit on the internet instead … >.<

  282. says

    Pteryxx:

    Let it be known if all those spays are a problem.

    I will. Honestly, I don’t feel right about not spaying those who might end up going for sale, either, as so many people get saddled with rats who are pregnant and weren’t bargaining on that. Then again, if someone wants to breed…I’m conflicted.

    Oh, and Richard, no, having a large amount of rats doesn’t make socializing with humans more difficult. Rats raised in house are more sociable, not less, providing a lot of interaction is provided by the owners.

  283. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    Ugh, blind guts.

    And then there is the rabbit hindgut. D: D:

  284. says

    Oh Tony! I’m sorry, I totally missed that you asked me a question.

    My due date is October 28, my dad’s birthday. When I had my first appointment, the nurse practitioner calculated my due date based on my last period and originally, I was told Halloween (it was revised after my first ultrasound). It doesn’t make a difference one way or another*, but it just sounds cooler to give birth on All Hallow’s Eve.

    *Due dates are just an estimation, anyway. I’m not sure why they bother to revise it if it’s less than a week. *shrugs*

  285. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    Yeah, if the DarkFetus emerges anywhere between 10/24 and 11/1, it is not really enough to be “early” or “late.” Those dating things are only as good as a week’s guess anyway, unless you know EXACTLY when sperm met egg (i.e. unless you did in vitro).

  286. Vilém Saptar says

    Caine,
    I wish I had said this earlier, but having had a look inside rape joke thread, I realize I may as well now: So sorry that you had to go through such horrible experiences.

    I dunno who else here’s been through that kind of shit, but sorry for all of you too.

    *hugs if you want them*?

     
    Also, I did use that porcupine meme yesterday, rather incorrectly at that, I now realize, because I was annoyed at troll. And it seemed handy, having seen it being used here many times, so I went right ahead without giving it much thought even though I’ve not been here very long.
     
    (Maybe I was subconsciously driven to display fitting-in behaviour by using it, because it would be cool here or something, though I certainly wasn’t consciuosly aware of making any such association)
     
    I’ll refrain from using it going forward and I’ve realized I should sensitize myself to actually exercising more forethought, and not just knowing that I must, before jumping in and adopting what appear to be “approved” mannerisms and patterns of behaviour. Not that anyone else is responsible for my slip-ups.
     
    This should have been obvious;I’ve thought all this many times but failed to do as I’ve thought. I slipped up by being less careful than I should have been.

  287. Pteryxx says

    Then again, if someone wants to breed…I’m conflicted.

    If the word’s going out now, or soon, that there’ll be hand-raised pups for pets, you might be able to ask the prospective owners beforehand whether they really want to breed *their* particular rat… that’s how many fancy-rat breeders do it, arranging placements in advance with discussion. Breeding prospects would also depend on the markings and temperaments the pups turn out to have in a month or so.

    That said, IMHO, it’s better to err on the side of spaying. Most people who actually want to breed rats can go find a good unspayed female on their own and not just pick one up from a store.

  288. says

    There are critters in the world with a “blind gut”: no waste disposal at the end.

    A common explanation for why Moomintrolls are so round is that Tove forgot to draw them an asshole.

    Although I clearly remember seeing rolls of toilet paper in their belongings…

  289. Minnie The Finn, qui devient bientôt vierge says

    Weed Monkey! _o/ *waves from Hartola, can you see us?*

  290. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    Hell If I know, Audley.

    It would seem to make more sense that way, TBH.

    Of course, there is a very excellent way to accurately age (down to the day) an embryo or fetus, but it really cannot be in utero at the time.

    So that isn’t really an option most of the time.

  291. says

    Caine
    Ouch
    Congratulations to Rubin, anyway. It’s not her fault that she was second and doesn’t get squeed at like Esme

    Audley
    Oh, do you want me to write your mum an email, telling her of all the pain, of the feeling of being a total and complete failure and the worst mother on planet earth for not being able to nurse my baby properly?
    Also, keep in mind that it’s totally normal to have baby-blues some days after delivery. It’s fucking hormones, so best just take a cushion and have a good cry without feeling guilty

  292. says

    Giliell:

    Congratulations to Rubin, anyway. It’s not her fault that she was second and doesn’t get squeed at like Esme

    That’s true. Thank you. For us, we’re still in shock, I think. Rubin’s a good mum, she started nursing her brood right away and I don’t envy her, having 15 ratlets fighting over her nipples. Yikes.

  293. cicely. No further comment. says

    [...]considering so many of Pharyngula’s esteemed regular commenters have a chip on their shoulder and are eager to spew vitriol in response to good-faith clueless comments.

    The problem is that we’ve seen too many “good-faith clueless comments” that were neither made in good faith, nor clueless. Over and over and over.

    They all look like ducks.
    -
    *hug* for Katherine. Well…at least, now you know. Cold comfort….
    -
    Ogvorbis, sorry to hear about your car.
    :(
    *booze*
    -

    So, according to cl, Cristina Rad has nothing else going for her except that she’s hot and blonde. Noted.

    Nope, nope, nope; no projection there on cl’s part at all.
    </tongue in cheek>
    -

    15. 1fucking5. fucking fifteen. :headbangs repeatedly:

    New ratlets, I presume.
    *backing up beer wagon*
    Drink?

    Also: *hugs*. And *moar hugs*.
    -

    If you’re going to persist, I have this nice crown of decayed porcupines for you. You can wear it as a sign of your terrible persecution as you trample out the vintage of the internet.

    *vigorous applause*
    -

  294. Vilém Saptar says

    Caine,
    :)
    Cong-ratlets again, to Rubin at least!
    *booze* to you
     
    Also, if its an annoyance to keep adding an accent to my nym, I wouldn’t mind at all being addressed “Vilem”.

  295. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    True, true, Audley. I would be very surprised if more than a few percent of pregnancies end at exactly 40 weeks.

  296. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    Aw, Jebus, finally got the significance of Caine’s posts.

    Hooray for Rubin, I guess – hope she’s a good mommy!

    Hang in there, Caine! *hugs*

    If I wasn’t firmly convinced that Morgan would probably eat it, I’d offer to take a rattie off your hands.

  297. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    A common explanation for why Moomintrolls are so round is that Tove forgot to draw them an asshole.

    Those aren’t real tails …

  298. says

    Giliell,
    Thanks for the offer, but between myself and my older (asshole) sister, we’re educating mom about how wrong her woo motherhood notions are (remember, mom gave me Buddhism for Mothers not long ago, even though she knows I’m an atheist.)

    Granted, it’s been over 20 years since my mother has had a newborn, but I’m pretty sure that she can be reasoned with. She may have very silly ideas about health and nutrition but above all else she wants us to be happy and that makes a huge difference.

    However, if she gets stubborn about it (always a possibility), I may call on you to help.

  299. says

    Warning: Cute kids story ahead

    The little one just tried to sneak out of their room (it’s night here, they’re supposed to sleep). I tell her “I see you, honey, go back to bed”.
    She turns around and goes back, but leaves the door open behind her. I follow her to close the door and find her in bed, faking a snore

  300. says

    PZ, apologies for embedding video at post #415. Please delete.

    Business Week takes a look at the finances of the mormon church. It’s six pages of details on how the mormon church makes money.

    Excerpts:

    Late last March the Mormon Church completed an ambitious project: a megamall. Built for roughly $2 billion, the City Creek Center stands directly across the street from the church’s iconic, neo-Gothic temple in Salt Lake City….

    The mall is part of a vast church-owned corporate empire that the Mormon leadership says will help spread its message, increase economic self-reliance, and build the Kingdom of God on earth….

    To Latter-day Saints, opening megamalls, running a Polynesian theme park, and operating a billion-dollar media and insurance empire are all part of doing God’s work….

    Mormons make up only 1.4 percent of the U.S. population, but the church’s holdings are vast. First among its for-profit enterprises is DMC, which reaps estimated annual revenues of $1.2 billion from six subsidiaries, according to the business information and analysis firm Hoover’s Company Records (DNB). Those subsidiaries run a newspaper, 11 radio stations, a TV station, a publishing and distribution company, a digital media company, a hospitality business, and an insurance business with assets worth $3.3 billion.

    AgReserves, another for-profit Mormon umbrella company, together with other church-run agricultural affiliates, reportedly owns roughly 1 million acres in the continental U.S., on which the church has farms, hunting preserves, orchards, and ranches. These include the $1 billion 290,000-acre Deseret Ranches in Florida, which, in addition to keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls, also has citrus, sod, and timber operations. Outside the U.S., AgReserves operates in Britain, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. Its Australian property, valued at $61 million in 1997, has estimated annual sales of $276 million, according to Dun & Bradstreet….

    The church also runs several for-profit real estate arms that own, develop, and manage malls, parking lots, office parks, residential buildings, and more. Hawaii Reserve, for example, owns or manages more than 7,000 acres on Oahu,…

    …the Polynesian Cultural Center (PCC), a 42-acre tropical theme park on Oahu’s north shore that hosts luaus, canoe rides, and tours through seven simulated Polynesian villages. General-admission adult tickets cost $49.95; VIP tickets cost up to $228.95. In 2010 the PCC had net assets worth $70 million and collected $23 million in ticket sales alone, as well as $36 million in tax-free donations. The PCC’s president, meanwhile, received a salary of $296,000. At the local level, the PCC, opened in 1963, began paying commercial property taxes in 1992, when the Land and Tax Appeal Court of Hawaii ruled that the theme park “is not for charitable purposes” and is, in fact, a “commercial enterprise, and business undertaking.” Nevertheless, the tourist destination remains exempt from federal taxes, because the PCC claims to be a “living museum” and an education-oriented charity that employs students who work at the center to pay their way through church-run Brigham Young University-Hawaii.

  301. says

    @ carlie #146:

    HELP I CAN’T STOP LOOKING AT IT.

    I can’t decide if it’s wicked cool or really disturbing.

    Oww, adorable! Why, oh why, didn’t PZ think of pledging to get one like this instead of a boring tattoo (in the fund-raising thread)? ;-)))

    @ Audley #205:

    Eat Right For Your Type, people!

    Uhg, I googled it, and see what you mean by “food woo”! o_O
    I wonder, though: is this obsession with blood type common in the USA, or is it more or less fringe? I thought Japan had a lot of blood type woo, but if it’s coming the the States now, we Europeans need to get wise to it and prepare for the onslaught, because generally, we are the next stop on the current Woo Conquers The World Tour ><

  302. says

    Jeeeeeeesus, Caine. Rat condo? You’re going to need a rat apartment complex. I second the getting drunk idea.

    Richard:

    Hrm. 26 ratlets. Maybe name them after cards?

    How many kids are the Duggars up to now…?

    /ducks and runs

    Ing:

    I say we can all just get our own kiss off calling cards that are unique to us and what we are comfortable with.

    Sounds reasonable.

    Dianne:

    There are critters in the world with a “blind gut”: no waste disposal at the end.

    So they come onto FTB and spew it to get rid of it?

    /sees Jadzia’s comment; decides not to delete above sentence because GMTA

  303. Dr. Esteleth Dyke, Medicine Woman and Snark Machine says

    How many kids are the Duggars up to now…?

    Nineteen. All with names beginning with “J.”

    Also, there are two “gone to Jesus,” one a miscarriage that would have been either their eldest or second-eldest (this one is called Caleb), and a micropreemie from a year or so ago, Jubilee.

  304. carlie says

    This is pretty neat. Via a Captain Awkward comment, it’s a fanstory about Molly from Sherlock. Not at all shippy, just really sweet, and really in character for her, and very nicely done. Also written for entirely after the end of the second series, so serious spoilers if you haven’t watched it all.

  305. ChasCPeterson says

    There are critters in the world with a “blind gut”: no waste disposal at the end.

    if I may? First clause true, specifically cnidarians (jellyfish, sea anemones, corals) and flatworms. But the blind gut (aka incomplete gut aka gastrovascular cavity) does not preclude disposal of indigestible waste, which merely goes out the same hole it came in.

  306. says

    @jonathanray

    PZ preaching collegiality is a bit rich considering so many of Pharyngula’s esteemed regular commenters have a chip on their shoulder and are eager to spew vitriol in response to good-faith clueless comments. I’m bracing my anus for the deceased porcupine that will be shoved into it for “tone trolling” in scare quotes.

    As a non regular who sometimes comment on things I know little about, I find the Horde™ quite helpful and nice. I think it may have something to do with the way you go about your ignorance?

    Perhaps?

    Maybe?

  307. Nutmeg says

    *booze* and *more booze* and *hangover cure for tomorrow* for Caine

    ***

    So, umm, apparently someone found the Higgs boson while I was away in the wilderness last week? And I completely missed it until this afternoon. The summer students were talking about it and I was sure they were pulling my leg.

  308. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    Cicely: (From way back, previous thread I believe)

    I’ve been lurking and trying to keep up (incidentally I’m at least partially threadrupt).

    I’ve also been extremely distracted by facebook’s PET, particularly the chat function. :D

    Nope, I havent’ flounced nor departed.

    I am a bit frustrated though. We went directly from torrential downpours that made fires impossible, to a heat wave that makes fires somewhat illegal, so no progress on my knife work. :(

    Caine: 15 more? Holy fuck I really have been behind.

  309. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    I am disappointed.

    Up at the top, in the upper right, is a blue box that says, “Test Page.”

    I went there.

    I got a 404 error.

    I was kinda hoping for a test about Pharyngula. Or memes. Or something.

    Dman.

    ——–

    I recieved today my copy of Dinosaurs With Special Reference to the American Musuem, Collections (yes, that is where they put the comma on the cover of this repring) by William Diller Matthew. It was written in 1915. Back when they thought the Tertiary was all of 3 million years. And the entire Mesozoic was about 9 million years.

  310. says

    Yikes!! 15 more ratlets, Caine?! Well, conga rats to Rubin but jumping Jupiter, woman, you deserve several bracing drinks! (pouring into USB along with chocolate and bacon)

    Bummed here about the repeal of the AFA in congress today – godsdamem

    Also, angry and alarmed by the push by Fox to establish a direct line for propaganda to Spanish-speaking Americans. I want to believe that people are smart enough not to believe that garbage, but we all know the truth about humanity’s vulnerability to emotional manipulation via religion and propaganda. Fuck fuck fuck.

    Why do the bad guys always seem to be 5 steps ahead? Why?!?!

  311. says

    Thunderf00t made a valid point. When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central? I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat. Get over yourself PZ. You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades. I’ve lost a great deal of respect for you over this… Silencing decent is an appropriate response. for shame.

  312. chigau (間違っていない) says

    Silencing decent is an appropriate response. for shame.

    Translation please.

  313. ChasCPeterson says

    What was the valid point, jackass? That Thunderfoot doesn’t care about sexism and therefore doesn’t think anybody else should either?
    HINT: invalid.

  314. Ogvorbis: Dogmaticus sycophantus says

    Silencing decent is an appropriate response. for shame.

    Translation please.

    Well, obviously, if we silence decent people on the internet then the misogynists, rape apologists, those who threaten rape, those who want women atheists barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen (where are you, Audley, and you wearing shoes?) will have a safe internet.

  315. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat.

    Don’t kick cats. But WE ARE FUCKING SICK OF THE ELEVATOR STORY TOO! You know why it keeps coming up? Because asshole fuckers like you keep bringing it up! Lying about it! Dragging it into every conversation! Harassing the woman who was in the elevator! Oh, and Blunderfuck did not have a valid point; you’re a moron for thinking he did.

  316. Beatrice says

    I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat.

    Then stop mentioning it! People like you are the ones who keep dragging out that story over and over and over again.

    And leave cats alone.

  317. Gnumann, quisling of the MRA nation says

    Thunderf00t made a valid point.

    Really? What is it? Why is it vaild? You got any substantiation of this other than your idiot opinion?

    When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central?

    It always was, since sexism is antithetical to the freethought movement.

    I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat.

    We get it, you’re a bad person and proud of it.

    Have you ever reflected on the fact that if it wasn’t for all the dudebros, you wouldn’t hear of the elevator story – at least more than once.

    If the reaction to “guys, don’t do that” had been a simple: “Ok, fair point. We’ll do our best to educate the more clueless members of our gender” – you probably would have heard the last of it. Instead we got more than a year with rampant misogyny.

    Get over yourself PZ. You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades.

    Which movement? The one filled to the brim with racist, misogynist dudebros who happily critiques religion for misogyny while making rape jokes (or worse)? We can live without that. In fact, it has to go the same way as religion.

    I’ve lost a great deal of respect for you over this…

    As we’ve established that you’re a bad person, I’m sure PZ will be happy that you don’t think he’s sharing your value-system. After all, if you thought that it would have been a sure sign that he’d been doing something wrong.

    Silencing decent is an appropriate response. for shame.

    I can only assume you mean “silencing dissent” here.

    And that you mean to say that silencing dissent is a shame.

    Fine, the first half-way decent thing you’ve said (too bad you mangled it). There’s only a slight problem. You don’t practice what you preach you dolt. You come in here and try (very badly I might add) to silence our dissent against mainstream misogyny.

  318. Rey Fox says

    You’re killing your own movement with these
    nonsensical tirades.

    Funny, seems like it’s still growing to me. And if “PZ’s movement” kills off the faux-skeptics, then all the better.

  319. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central?

    When? It has been from the beginning, you fucktard. Watch the friggin’ video.

    You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades.

    Aaannnnd there’s the answer to your “why”. PeeZed is not killing his own movement. On the contrary he’s trying his best to distance himself from the fuckers who think they’re big boys because they don’t think there are fairies at the bottom of the garden. Now that I am a man, I have put away childish things.

  320. says

    So, let’s see about this jonathanshiveley, #437.

    Lack of sensitivity? Check. Whiny, petulant entitlement? Check. Sadistic reactions? Check. (Yuk!)

    Complete and utter lack of irony? Check.

    Oooh, boy! We have a real winner, here. I see there will be fierce competition at the Great Decayed Porcupine Awards of 2012!

  321. LDTR says

    I’m starting to really doubt I have the stuff to be a regular commenter here. Maybe I’ll toss in a supportive remark now and then (supportive of atheism and humanism, that is), but otherwise I believe I’ll go back to lurker mode for at least a while.

    All my best wishes to the Horde.

  322. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Hugs, LDTR. I’m sorry things have been so shitty around here lately, if that’s what’s got you down – for what it’s worth, I’ve appreciated a lot of your recent comments.

  323. cm's changeable moniker says

    Drive-by to say (a) belated thank you to feralboy12 cicely for:

    I remember reading it, so you almost certainly are correct that you remember writing it.

    My sanity is somewhat restored. My google-fu is still weak. :-/

    And (b) Giliell: “formula is not child abuse”. This is wise advice. If it isn’t working naturally, go artificial; they’ll be fine.

  324. says

    Shiveley Twitlash:

    I’ve lost a great deal of respect for you over this…

    If I were PZ I’d wear that as a badge of perverse pride. Respect from dudebros is shit.

    LDTR, take care of yourself. We’ll miss your comments, but your well-being comes first, and this place can be rough on it.

  325. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    you fucktard.

    Sili, please don’t. I know what you said you thought it meant, but it’s indistinguishable from an insult about mental retardation.

  326. Matt Penfold says

    When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central?

    When the setting up of FtB was being discussed one the very things decided upon was that special effort should be made to attract bloggers who were not white middle-aged men. So that it is the when, the why should be obvious.

  327. Beatrice says

    I’m not even all that fond of rats and I want to steal Gytha.
    (And there was much squeeing over the sleeping ratlets too.)

  328. Tony aka The Psychic Octopus says

    Just a quickie.
    Gotta go to work.

    jonathanshiveley:

    Thunderf00t made a valid point. When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central? I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat. Get over yourself PZ. You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades. I’ve lost a great deal of respect for you over this… Silencing decent is an appropriate response. for shame.

    Ah our daily dose of dumb.
    Here’s your homework doo doo head:
    1- go back and watch the video again, and this time listen and comprehend the words coming out of PZ’s mouth.
    2- Define anti-sexism central. FtB isn’t anti-sexism central. It’s a progressive collection of bloggers who share a several important concepts. One of those is no tolerance for sexism. If you don’t like it, please feel free to fuck off.
    3- No one, but no one is discussing Elevatorgate but idiotic morons like yourself.
    4- PZ needn’t get over himself. You have to bring an argument to the table if you want to sit with the adults.
    5- You spelled decent wrong. So wrong in fact, that it fucks up the meaning of that sentence.

    6-DON’T YOU DARE KICK A CAT.

  329. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat.

    Are you out of concrete?

    –o–

    Sili, please don’t. I know what you said you thought it meant, but it’s indistinguishable from an insult about mental retardation.

    Shall try to remember. In writing it is, yes.

  330. chigau (間違っていない) says

    Caine
    Isn’t it nice to have a shop and tools?
    And lumber, hinges, screen, etc.?
    For emergencies.
    ;)

  331. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Caine – 26 ratlets??? I’d be baying at the moon all night in your place. At least Rubin seems to be following in Esme’s pawprints and being a good mom. All the same *pours some extra strong liquor into USB port*
    ———————————————-

    Chiptuneist’s VNV link reminded me of one song I hadn’t listened to for a while, although when I first heard it, I must have replayed it about ten times. Shame that it doesn’t always leave me feeling hopeful.
    ———————————————–

    Re: the porcupine meme – If there are people who really do get uncomfortable with it, and it’s just another target for troll fodder by now, would it matter if we just gradually phased it out? OTOH, damn, it’s handy to have. I guess I just hate that something that was meant to act as a sort-of force for good has been turned into something that’s just going to cause more trouble. Problem is that no matter what we say, someone is going to pervert it into something else entirely, just to see if they can score points or whatever.
    ————————————————-

    Katherine: That’s a bummer about the guy. Well, I guess it’s better to find out now instead of later. Hang in there.

  332. Rey Fox says

    Why can’t people just make their own kiss-offs? Why do we have to have an official thing that we say to trolls?

  333. says

    Chigau:

    Isn’t it nice to have a shop and tools?
    And lumber, hinges, screen, etc.?
    For emergencies.
    ;)

    Yes, it is. :D

    PTI:

    Caine – 26 ratlets??? I’d be baying at the moon all night in your place. At least Rubin seems to be following in Esme’s pawprints and being a good mom. All the same *pours some extra strong liquor into USB port*

    Thank you. Things are calming down now that Esme & Rubin have their own houses. The condos are by each other, but they are both immensely relieved to have their own place.

  334. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Thunderf00t made a valid point.

    NO TF made an ass of himself. No valid points in his vicinity.

    I’m so fricken tired of hearing that lame elevator story I could kick a cat. Get over yourself PZ. You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades.

    You think we aren’t tired of EG and his misogynist apologists? But they, not us, aren’t leaving it alone. Don’t blame PZ for the response of others. That isn’t smart, intelligent, or worthwhile for someone who wants us to listen to his inane and fuckwitted OPINION that sounds like a couple of dozen other very similar tirades by people we never heard of. Conspiracy by the slimepit? I would I’m beginning to think so.

  335. says

    Audley:

    The ratlets are so fucking cute!

    Esme’s litter look like miniature puppies. :) :) :)

    Hee. They are too cute, aren’t they? I am seriously distressed about one of them, he took a large and serious gash right under one eye from Esme, most likely when she was getting very upset about Rubin being in the top half of the condo and stomping around like godzilla. I got it cleaned, but I hope to hell it doesn’t get infected and I really hope it doesn’t interfere with his eye at all. There’s simply no time to get to the vet this week, so I’ll have to keep an eye out.

  336. chigau (間違っていない) says

    Rey Fox
    Say whatever you like.
    No one is suggesting that porcupines are the only choice.

  337. Sili (I have no penis and I must jizz) says

    Why can’t people just make their own kiss-offs? Why do we have to have an official thing that we say to trolls?

    Groupthink.

  338. opposablethumbs says

    Hello there, jonathanshiveley! You seem to be seeking feedback on your uniquely piquant opinions. Luckily for you, there is a thread made exactly for such feedback! Kindly direct your opinion to the TZT thread, conveniently available on the right-hand side of the page in the Profile section. Please do not submit your comment multiple times, as that will invalidate your submission. Enjoy your stay, and may you receive exactly the kind of feedback you deserve.

    Yes I know, but it’s quicker this way.

  339. says

    @ Part-Time Insomniac:

    I like the porcupine meme too. But it can be fun to riff a little with it. Porcupine Badge of Trolldom, anyone?

    “Here’s your Official Porcupine Meme™. Feel free to act offended if you so desire, we won’t mind.”

    “Here’s the way to Porcupinists Anonymous. No, no, don’t thank me…”

    “Hey, decayed porcupines are all the rage, these days! Buy two, get one free!”

    ;^)

  340. 'Tis Himself says

    Did you hear about the guy who was chilled to absolute zero? It’s cool, he’s 0K.

  341. chigau (間違っていない) says

    Groupthink.
    Yeah, that too.
    We don’t want to have DEEP RIFTS.

  342. says

    I intimated all these problems years ago, when I got stomped all up and down the thread for pointing out that PZ and similar atheists are deists. What you have here is a clash caused by your assumption that all atheists (i.e. “free thinkers”) are going to agree with what PZ has identified as Enlightenment Principles such as the fundamental equality of all human beings. There is nothing about atheism (or, sad to say since I know it will renew my lambasting, science) which requires or logically results in those beliefs.

    The largest contingent of non-deist atheists are called “objectivists”, although these days they are known more often as “Randites”, “libertarians”, or “Paultards”. I was gratified to hear PZ admit his blunder in failing to vet Tf00t. But Tf00t certainly isn’t the only “atheist” who thinks that being “open minded” includes considering the possibility that maybe we shouldn’t treat everybody the same based on an ideal, because people are empirically and obviously not the same.

    The important thing is to realize that you don’t actually have any more superior claim to being rigorously intellectual atheists than they do. There is an awful lot (and I mean a really really really lot) of dogma that gets wedged between the cracks of our rationalist edifice, usually unnoticed, shoring up the strength of our convictions despite our denial that it is there.

    If “New Atheist” is a label that is supposed to only include feminists and those who support social justice, we should make that known. The assumption that all atheists will share these ideals simply because they are atheists has never been true, as I’ve been trying to explain. Just like religionists, though, atheists wish to believe that their own political opinions are a direct result of the natural order of the universe.

  343. says

    maxdevlin, after dropping this smoking piece of shit in the ‘Somebody is going to have to’ thread:

    Some peoples’ psychological flaws lead them to find rape jokes funny. Some peoples’ psychological flaws leave them unable to find rape jokes funny. Neither group is the more flawed.

    What you need to do is stay the fuck out of our lounge. If you feel you must persist, there’s a place for you: TZT.

    Other than that, I have just one thing for you, you pathetic, broken douchebiscuit: I have this nice crown of decayed porcupines for you. You can wear it as a sign of your terrible persecution as you trample out the vintage of the internet.

  344. says

    Get over yourself PZ. You’re killing your own movement with these nonsensical tirades.

    YAY!!!!

    Seriously if PZ manages to kill off Skepticism I’ll be dancing in the fucking ashes!

    Not because I don’t like what skepticism does, I think a lot of important work is done; but because that if its going to double down and entrench sexism into it’s culture then it needs to burn. Let’s burn it down and rebuild it again to get it right.

  345. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Yawn Mendacious Delusional teal deer bullshit. Why bother? Nothing intelligent there, just bullshit. Hasn’t posting anything intelligent, if ever, in a looooonnnnnnnggggggg time.

  346. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Yeah, no, maxdevlin. You’re not welcome in this thread.
    You know, it’s unfortunate. I bet there are many men who have their names in all lowercase as their nyms with their facebook linked through them who are perfectly decent people. But I’ve seen such a flood of such posters spouting idiotic fuckery that now my hackles immediately go up.

  347. Beatrice says

    Could we finish this thread earlier than usual? With the clean slate and all that, maybe the trolls will crawl back under their bridges.

  348. says

    I intimated all these problems years ago, when I got stomped all up and down the thread for pointing out that PZ and similar atheists are deists.

    what.

    Just like religionists, though, atheists wish to believe that their own political opinions are a direct result of the natural order of the universe.

    Um yes…people tend to believe that the things they believe are correct and coincide with reality. If they didn’t they’re either experiencing dissonance or changing their views.

    THAT is somehow deism to you? Jesus fuck that’s some fine verbal solipsism?

  349. says

    Seriously deism now apparently means that you believe your opinions are correct?

    I guess Maxdevlin just felt the need to show us that we believe in our beliefs as much as they belief in theirs!

  350. says

    @ maxdevlin:

    “deists”</?

    I do not think this word means what you think it means.

    The largest contingent of non-deist atheists are called “objectivists”, although these days they are known more often as “Randites”, “libertarians”, or “Paultards”.

    No, no, no. Here, at Pharyngula, it’s more likely paulbots. We frown upon using as insults language referring to disabilities.

    If “New Atheist” is a label that is supposed to only include feminists and those who support social justice, we should make that known.

    Hey, if you want to openly support sexism and social injustice, nobody’s detaining you here! Feel free to go elsewhere and create your own very group. Why not the “Porcupine Atheists”? I hear the name’s available.

  351. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Just like religionists, though, atheists wish to believe that their own political opinions are a direct result of the natural order of the universe.

    Um, no. My political beliefs actually runs counter to the natural order of the universe.

  352. birgerjohansson says

    The Moomintrolls had the right idea. Hibernate in winter, come out when there is fair weather.
    I don’t know anything about their metabolism, though.
    — — — — — — — —
    I phoned a lady friend today, a doctor who came over as a political refugee at the beginning of the Kuwait war.
    She, her husband and her daughter were in Spain and daughterspawn had had much fun with another kid who just got a small brother, also named “Birger”.
    When she heard mommy was talking with “Birger” she wanted to have the phone too, having an optimistic view of the language abilities of two-month-old kids ;-)
    — — — — — —
    More Swedish political strife. Liberals want more money to the defence, conservatives oppose it. We are like the “opposite” indian guy in the film “Little Big Man”.

  353. Pteryxx says

    Yay ratlets! They’re all such different colors and markings, fat and wiggly. Should be reliably sex-able in a couple of days. Thanks Caine for the new condo pics – how did y’all make the ladder holes, did you have to take the drawers out?

    Re the pup with cut face… I’d bet Esme is going to keep the cut licked very clean, since the pups look excellently cared for. If it’s just skin deep, it’s probably fine. Rats and mice have incredibly resilient and tough hides, they heal wonderfully from surgical wounds and even fight wounds and abscesses as long as they’re cleaned.

  354. says

    The largest contingent of non-deist atheists are called “objectivists”, although these days they are known more often as “Randites”, “libertarians”, or “Paultards”.

    Wait wait wait…

    Atheist are deists because they believe their ethics are of the natural order

    Objectivity are not…despite believing in a natural objective moral order?

    WTF!?

    This isn’t circular logic: it’s circle jerkular logic.

    I kindly invite you to floss with electric eels

  355. Pteryxx says

    *shelves. SHELVES.

    I haven’t misplaced my brain, honest; it’s in a jar under the mattress like usual. <_<

  356. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I kindly invite you to floss with electric eels

    Actually, electric tapeworms would fit better. We’re working on the prototypes at Pharyngula Labs. Still working on getting the amperage/voltage up.

  357. carlie says

    When and why did FTB become anti-sexism central?

    When women started speaking up and men started listening to them and then other men went “Whoa, not cool” and started throwing tantrums and hurling rape and death threats at the women to try and shut them up because women aren’t supposed to be the ones that guys listen to.

  358. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Any one who is actually a free thinker should be open to the concept of sexism.

    *my fingers just cramped up*

  359. says

    Irene:

    Why not the “Porcupine Atheists”?

    :falls over laughing:

    Ing:

    I kindly invite you to floss with electric eels

    :falls over laughing again:

    Pteryxx:

    how did y’all make the ladder holes, did you have to take the drawers out?

    The holes are made before the shelves are placed (this is just a cheap shit flat pack bookcase, cost $28.00), the holes on this condo were done with a hole saw, the holes in the first condo, which are square, were done with a router.

    Thanks for the reassurance on our injured ratlet. ♥