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Jul 03 2012

Episode CCCXLIV: Just for the girls

Boys, close your eyes. This is Secret Knowledge.

(Episode CCCXLIII: Yay, Jamie Kilstein!)

677 comments

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  1. 1
    Gnumann+, out&proud cultural marxist (just don't ask me about Gramsci)

    From the old one:

    …I am now remembering the downside about eating beans.

    No one stand downwind of me.

    If you’re following the path of the righteous (ie – cooking them yourself and not eating them from a tin) there is a way around that.

    Boil them fiercely for 10-15 minutes in plenty unseasoned, unsalted water – ditch said water and simmer in stock (or whatever you usually do) like normal afterwards.

    If you get wind after cooking them like this it’s just a sign that you need to eat beans and pulses more regularly.

  2. 2
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    !!! I saw this video in 6th grade!!! In health class!

    That’s what you get when you grow up in the sticks.

  3. 3
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Gnumann, I made the chili myself, but from canned beans.

    Because I am a lazy woman.

  4. 4
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    “like any woman, she quietly manages so much of our living without our even realizing there’s a woman at work.”

    That is so fucking depressing.

  5. 5
    The Mellow Monkey

    It always strikes me as weird to realize that massive numbers of people had to watch films like that. There’s this whole alternate world in public school that I missed out on.

  6. 6
    Gnumann+, out&proud cultural marxist (just don't ask me about Gramsci)

    Because I am a lazy woman.

    The wages of sloth are gas :D

    (And I’m not always on the straight-and-narrow either, I’ve been known to eat baked beans with tomato red-colour-and-sugar sauce from time to time)

  7. 7
    Sili

    cooking them yourself and not eating them from a tin

    Fuck you, too.

    (Srsly, I’m sure it’d be a lot cheaper that way. I should have a look around for dried beans.)

  8. 8
    Moggie

    Gnumann:

    Boil them fiercely for 10-15 minutes in plenty unseasoned, unsalted water – ditch said water and simmer in stock (or whatever you usually do) like normal afterwards.

    And take special care with red kidney beans. A bit of gas is the least of your worries: phytohaemagglutinin poisoning is not pleasant.

  9. 9
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Wanna take any bets on how this solid piece of advice will be taken?

    Boost the U.S. economy now and worry about cutting deficits later, the International Monetary Fund recommended Tuesday.

    The U.S. recovery remains “tepid” and according to the IMF, is expected to grow only 2% this year. Meanwhile, the fiscal cliff looms in 2013, threatening to reduce the economy’s growth to only 1% next year.

    Meanwhile, the IMF predicts the job market will improve only at a snail’s pace. It expects the unemployment rate to average 8.2% this year and 7.9% in 2013.
    Amid that weakness and threats from slower growth abroad, the IMF recommended U.S. policymakers spend more on infrastructure, worker training programs, extended unemployment benefits and fixes for the housing market.
    “Continued policy action is needed to boost the recovery,” IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde said at a news conference. “We believe the U.S. authorities do not have a lot of space available to act, but they should use it to support the recovery in the near term.”
    The fiscal cliff and other spending cutbacks would not only stunt U.S. growth but also have “significant spillover effects” on the global economy, Lagarde said.
    The IMF also urged lawmakers to raise the debt ceiling as soon as possible.
    “At the same time, promptly raising the debt ceiling would help reduce uncertainty and avoid the risk of losses in confidence and financial market instability as the deadline approaches,” the IMF report said.

  10. 10
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Sili:

    (Srsly, I’m sure it’d be a lot cheaper that way. I should have a look around for dried beans.)

    Healthier, too!

  11. 11
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    When I make baked beans I use dry beans. But sometimes, you just want some beans now, not tomorrow.

  12. 12
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    Nggghhhhhhhh! Even though eBay offers a “used” option for listing nail polish, they pulled my hard-to-find polish with a bunch of watchers because they “do not allow the sale of used cosmetics”.

    Joke’s on them though. I already had an inquiry about international shipping through eBay message and thanks to them pulling the listing I was able to do an end run and sell it via email without paying them any fees. Suckers.

  13. 13
    marilove

    Ahh, whatever, I will probably always use canned beans. I’m cooking for me. Just me. And I’m not hugely fond of cooking to begin with. Canned beans are plenty cheap for just one person, so meh. There are even organic varieties if you want to get all fancy. I usually just rinse them before I use them.

  14. 14
    Zeno

    Aha! So that’s the video the girls watched in that private assembly when all the boys had to stay behind in the classroom! (And at my school, for some reason, there was never a video for the boys to watch. If only I had access to that secret knowledge we were denied!)

  15. 15
    Pteryxx

    When I make baked beans I use dry beans. But sometimes, you just want some beans now, not tomorrow.

    ^ This. I’m a rookie at beans, but still I use mostly a dried bean mix and stew the frick out of it in a crock pot for hours or overnight. I do keep a couple of cans around for emergencies, i.e. when life just sucks too much to go to all that trouble.

  16. 16
    Randomfactor

    I was a y-chromosome spy at my Catholic school…we were a small enough school that I was essentially the AV department. They were trying to show the girls a film–possibly this one–and the projector wasn’t working right.

    Boy, all KINDS of pink-wrapped products on the display table that I didn’t look at. One of my female classmates pointed out “YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!”

    (Looking back, it would’ve made all kinds of sense for the class to be co-ed. But it Wasn’t Done.)

  17. 17
    kristinc, now with added ventilation

    Any tips on “refried” beans? I usually soak and then stew the everloving crap out of some pinto beans, mash them up and salt them to taste. But usually they’re not as creamy as the canned refried beans *hangs head*

  18. 18
    Walton

    I like many dishes that contain beans. However, what I hate are baked beans in sweet tomato sauce out of a can (the traditional British “baked beans”, as served in the famous low-budget dish “beans on toast”). They are an abomination.

  19. 19
    marilove

    I like many dishes that contain beans. However, what I hate are baked beans in sweet tomato sauce out of a can (the traditional British “baked beans”, as served in the famous low-budget dish “beans on toast”). They are an abomination.

    I am 100% American but I have been known to enjoy baked beans on toast. SO GOOD. :P

  20. 20
    ButchKitties

    Whether I use dry or canned beans, I cannot cook them without singing this song: I Love Beans

    When I eat beans, I sit in my own little cloud. Nobody comes to visit me in my little cloud. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s cuz I’m… cuttin’ muffins!

  21. 21
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Public service announcement :

    People, please shower regularly, especially during these hellish temperatures. If not for yourselves, if not for unsuspecting strangers that might stand next to you on the tram or bus, please do it for members of your household and your coworkers.
    You can repeat “I don’t sweat” all you want, but everyone around you knows differently. And yes, your sweat stinks, even if you think that it smells of fresh flowers. While deodorant shouldn’t be used instead of washing, please use it if you need it. Special note to men: no, deodorant isn’t unmanly if that’s the reason you’re not using it. And smelling of stale sweat doesn’t make you manly, it makes people around you miserable.

    Thank you for your attention.

    In the next instalment : Cleaning teeth and why people lean away when you talk.

  22. 22
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Walton:
    American baked beans (canned) are a completely different taste and texture to the British variant. I ♥ American style baked beans, but I found the kind from the UK is just a salty, tasteless, brown gob. Ew.

  23. 23
    marilove

    Walton:
    American baked beans (canned) are a completely different taste and texture to the British variant. I ♥ American style baked beans, but I found the kind from the UK is just a salty, tasteless, brown gob. Ew.

    You can get the Heinz kind with the “sweet tomato sauce” and I like those just fine, too! BEANS!

  24. 24
    marilove

    (Also, it helps to add cheese to the hot beans.)

  25. 25
    Randomfactor

    (Also, it helps to add cheese to the hot beans.)

    Do you cut the cheese before or after?

  26. 26
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Should I post my family’s recipe for baked beans? It is in the so-called “Boston style,” which is to say that it has molasses in it. Also, delicious.

  27. 27
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Marilove,
    Ugh, I’ve had those. GUH-ross!

    E,
    If you post it, I’ll make ‘em. ;)

  28. 28
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Beans:

    Love them. If I’m feeling really lazy I just take a can of kidney beans, warm them up a bit to soften, mash, put in a pot with a little amount of warmed olive oil with flour (to thicken), add water, put in some small pasta (ditalini rigati or similar), season and cook until pasta is done.

  29. 29
    Matt Penfold

    Comfort food ?

    Has to be shepherd’s pie. With the mash nice and crispy on top and the filling oozing up the sides, and a good splash of Worcestershire sauce.

  30. 30
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    marilove:

    I am 100% American but I have been known to enjoy baked beans on toast. SO GOOD. :P

    Ever tried beans n franks n ketchup?

  31. 31
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Beatrice:
    Love the PSA.
    Can’t wait for the next one.
    (I try to freshen my breath at work periodically, since I have to talk directly to guests throughout the night. Sometimes it’s ALTOIDS. Other times I simply chew a lemon or lime. This of course is after I’ve already brushed my teeth.)

  32. 32
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    randomfactor:
    That was awful!
    +1

  33. 33
    marilove

    Ever tried beans n franks n ketchup?

    Beanie Weanies, yes. Though, not sure about the ketchup. (Although some baked bean recipes include ketchup.)

  34. 34
  35. 35
    Rowan vet-tech

    I never saw that video in school. So I just watched it. And because my boyfriend is in the same room, he just watched it too.

    All I can say is that I’m *glad* I never saw that in school. It was awkward enough at 29 watching that! And there were definitely points of horror with how they were portraying women. It shouldn’t shock me of course, after all my mother told me that when she was a teen she was told that too much education would damage a woman’s brain! But still…. so full of cringing.

  36. 36
    Rowan vet-tech

    Also, I’d like to make a rude gesture or two at the “mild twinge” and “3 to 7 days” and at my own uterus. My specialty was 8 days and cramping so severe I would miss school the first two days of it because I was in the bathroom vomiting from the pain. The pain from my appendicitis was nowhere near as bad as my cramps.

  37. 37
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    marilove:

    Beanie Weanies, yes.

    Typically I boil the hot dogs and then slice them up into the beans.

    I wonder how it would taste if I grilled the hot dogs…I love the texture of turkey sausage when it’s grilled and has a delicious char on the outside. Atop red beans and rice (::comfort food alert::) that’s fantastic. It’s also good in the morning with breakfast items that I shall not mention for fear of being tackled again :)

  38. 38
    leftwingfox

    I remember those sex-segregated classes too; in a canadian public school in the mid 80′s. =/

    For boys, it was the “Three P’s”: Puberty, Pregnancy, and Penile Emissions. Anything to do with sex itself was completely obscured. By Jr. High, that was supplemented with The Horrors of STDs, and the fact that douching with cola was not an effective contraceptive. I remember not even knowing what the hell a “douche” was, aside from a french word for “shower”. I also wonder if so many guys were clueless about the vagina because the drawings of the woman’s reproductive system lacked any sort of external imagery.

    While some of my peers apparently experienced the wonders of the condom-covered banana, I didn’t actually experience a comprehensive sex-ed class until the middle of High School.

  39. 39
    DLC

    Remember Girls, it’s not only Okay to bathe during your period, it’s beneficial.
    Now boys, when you wake up to find your tighty-whities have gotten a bit damp, do remember to go and shower and change, but wait until after the girls have left the bathroom. Be Polite, Chaps.
    /7thGradeHealthClass

  40. 40
    anuran

    Aaaaaiiiiiyyyyyyeeeee!!!!
    Scary Female Mysteries what men wot not not wot what of.

  41. 41
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Giliell:

    Who cares about what Robert Parker says?”

    That’s the spirit! :)

    The point, though, was about reliability. It’s all very hit-or-miss.

    I like the stuff. I usually taste it before I buy it

    That’s why you like what you end up buying. ;)

  42. 42
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Audley:
    2 cups dry beans
    1/4 cup butter
    2 tsp salt
    2 TBS dark brown sugar
    1/4 cup dark molasses
    1/2 tsp dry mustard
    1/2 tsp Worcestershire sauce
    1 small white or yellow onion

    Steps:
    1. Rinse beans well, then soak for 8 hours.
    2. Drain, then add enough water to cover beans. Boil beans at least 20 minutes, or until skin breaks when blown on.
    3. Pour beans and water into pot.
    4. Combine all remaining ingredients in pot, stir well and cover.

    In crock pot, cook at least 8 hours on low. In bean pot in oven, bake 6-7 hours at 250 F.

    Excellent side: hobo bread.
    2 ½ c. whole wheat flour OR 2. C whole wheat flour + ½ c. cornmeal
    2 tsp. baking soda
    1 tsp. salt
    2 C. buttermilk
    ½ c. dark molasses
    (optional: ½ cup raisins or chopped nuts)

    Combine, bake in either standard bread pan or metal coffee can at 350 for 40-50 minutes.

  43. 43
    The Mellow Monkey

    rowanvt:

    Also, I’d like to make a rude gesture or two at the “mild twinge” and “3 to 7 days” and at my own uterus. My specialty was 8 days and cramping so severe I would miss school the first two days of it because I was in the bathroom vomiting from the pain. The pain from my appendicitis was nowhere near as bad as my cramps.

    Ugh, that’s awful. My deepest sympathies.

    I hit the uterine jackpot, I think. TMI: My cycle is 30 days long and I only have a 3 day period. SCORE. The only downside is if I ever do decide to use it for its intended purpose, since that long of a cycle reduces the number of ovulations I have per year.

  44. 44
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    (and no, I do not know why it is called hobo bread)

  45. 45
    The Mellow Monkey

    (and no, I do not know why it is called hobo bread)

    Probably just because it’s a quick bread, since carrying yeast/starter with you would be difficult as a migrant worker.

    Sounds tasty, though.

  46. 46
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    jamescasterlin:

    I want to pursue a leadership position I need to more or less keep my atheist viewpoints to myself and not post anything on a social network that may upset someone with religious beliefs. WTF?

    Expanding what Ing said, in those roles, your job is to persuade people to do stuff. Telling them they’re wrong about God (whether on the job or through them finding you on LinkedFriendFace™) is a really good way of pissing them off and makes that job more difficult.

    Sucks, I know, but that’s people for you.

  47. 47
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Hi, Horde. I guess this is a good thread to talk about ladybusiness on.

    I appear to be in the earliest throes of perimenopause. For me, this means I have started to become seriously irregular for only the second time in my life (first time was caused by hormonal contraception), with prolonged and severe PMS that is not helped by avoidance of sodium and caffeine. Lots and lots of crying jags and RAEG in the absence of anything wrong at all. When I finally begin to bleed, it feels like something out of Julie Doucet’s “Heavy Flow” (not safe for work/lunch). Or maybe this.

    So, anyway, I’ve been scarce around here because keeping up with everything has become way too overwhelming.

    *****

    Beatrice, stop stank-shaming people! You’re oppressing their natural odors!!!!

    (Seriously, the person being quoted in there. They should have been included in this rant, which is long overdue. Pikachu has mentioned the “transethnic” jerks before, white kids who claim they’re a different race “inside.” Then there are the “transabled” and, I shit you not, the “transfat.” I also hear that the creeps who fetishize transgender people are calling themselves “trans-sensuals” now.)

  48. 48
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    From the video (which I watched! what’s going on?):

    If the egg is impregnated, which happens if the woman is going to have a child

    is a very decorous elision; shades of supernatural fertilisation. *ugh*

  49. 49
    Rowan vet-tech

    @43-

    Thankee for the sympathies. I remember being so very very annoyed by a girl in my highschool whom I overheard complain that her period was an entire 4 days long! I think my general thought at the time was “GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!”

    Fortunately, once I hit my early twenties the Cramps O’ DOOM settled down and they haven’t been more than mildly nauseating in years. I also dropped to a 5 day length, though the time between them can vary by as much as a week.

    The *only* benefit to my early periods was that there was exactly 33 days between the end of one and the start of the next. I was able to plot out my cycle for a year in advance.

  50. 50
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks, E! I’ll give that a crack one of these weekends (and I love quickbreads!).

    So, hey, guess who got asked to come into work tomorrow? One customer complains that we’re not delivering on a fucking holiday and wants a $20 part specially delivered for no goddamn reason, so I have to lose a chunk of my fucking day off because he’s a dumbass?

    I don’t fucking think so.

    I asked my boss how it made sense to pay me damn near $100 to come in for one part that we’re making maybe $10 profit on. Oh and the customer is a known asshole. Management isn’t thrilled with me, but I couldn’t give a flying fuck right now.

  51. 51
    Ing

    sorry to bug people but does anyone have advice for getting out of depression funk? Unemployment is hitting me much harder than I thought. I’m going to try acting like I’m self employed and giving myself a work day to do crafty stuff tomorrow.

  52. 52
    =8)-DX

    Sex = “when a woman is going to have a child.”

    *cue MRA arrogant explosion of disgust

    LOL, euphemisms are always fun.

  53. 53
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    *waves at Daisy!*

    Hey, did you guys know that the great thing about being pregnant is not having periods for 9 months?

    /sarcasm

  54. 54
    Socio-gen, something something...

    That video is hilariously awful. My school had the school nurses give a fairly technical “special lecture for girls” in 6th grade. In 11th grade (1985), our teacher was a nurse practitioner who worked for Planned Parenthood.

    Re: comfort food. It depends on how much comfort I need. If it’s just been a crappy day or it’s rainy, I make my mom’s “day before payday” special, macaroni & tomato — saute some garlic and onion, add a little burger, puree some canned whole tomatoes (with juice) and let simmer while cooking the pasta. Drain pasta, add sauce.

    If I’m having a “I hate the world and the world hates me” day, that’s when I go for the artery clogger: the frog in a pond. Make a hole in the center of a slice of bread, fry one side till crispy in a truckload of butter, flip and do the same to the other side. Flip once more, reduce heat, and crack an egg into the hole. Cook to desired consistency and flip once more to finish.

    Ms. Daisy: My sympathies. I’m going through the same thing. Not only are my cycles shortening (from 29 to 19 days!) while my emotional balance is seriously out of whack, but the blood flow is like something out of a SAW movie and lasting up to 10 days. Until now, I’ve never had any PMS or even mild cramping, so it’s been…difficult, to say the least.

  55. 55
    =8)-DX

    Re: depression funk.
    Alcohol worked for me. Then stopped working. Then continued working. The real thing that worked was being creative.. do a little bit of anything even when you’re at rock-bottom, work at it a step at a time.
    I’ve found self-mind-manipulation works, but I then I’ve only ever done that when fully self-aware, sustained and happy.
    What I said before counts though: do a little bit of something that is “work” for you even if it isn’t employment each day.

  56. 56
    Rowan vet-tech

    @51, Ing-

    For myself, I go hiking. For some reason when I’m feeling really down just getting out amongst the ‘wild’ makes a huge impact on my mental well being. I feel very lucky to live near several state parks that have amazing trails through the redwoods.

  57. 57
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Ing, sympathies. Unemployment-related depression sucks.

    The best thing you can do is get out of the house and meet up with other people, honestly. I say this as someone who is not terribly sociable, and as someone who understands that even leaving the house can present you with expenses you can’t afford.

    I don’t recommend job networking groups for finding jobs if you’re not a grade-a schmoozer already. Depending on the people, however, they can give you a bit of a mood lift from interacting with other people in the same boat.

  58. 58
    Rowan vet-tech

    I’ve also found that ranting that problem X can fall in a well and die in a fire often makes me feel better too.

  59. 59
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Hi, Audley! I heard you got a little heatsick the other day. I’m glad to hear you and DarkFetusGirl are doing better.

    Hi, BCPA_Lady. I’ve always had heavy periods with cramping, and I’ve often had bad PMS too (it varies), but this shit is extreme, yo.

    I tried black cohosh (540-mg caplets) for the mood swings, mindful of the risks and the mixed bag of evidence for its benefits. It actually did even out my mood, but it also left me feeling “out of it,” with a headache. I may try cutting the dosage next time.

    Rowanvt, that reminds me of this post that Happiestsadist forwarded me today. (The “Alhumdullilah” is hilarious in that context, too. Puts “Bless their hearts” to shame.)

  60. 60
    The Mellow Monkey

    Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform:

    I also hear that the creeps who fetishize transgender people are calling themselves “trans-sensuals” now.

    That actually makes me physically nauseated. One of my writing gigs is for a site on UK transgender issues, but that’s a new one on me. I’ll count myself lucky to have not heard it before.

  61. 61
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Thanks, Daisy! ♥

  62. 62
    AJ Milne

    People, please shower regularly, especially during these hellish temperatures. If not for yourselves, if not for unsuspecting strangers that might stand next to you on the tram or bus, please do it for members of your household and your coworkers… You can repeat “I don’t sweat” all you want, but everyone around you knows differently.

    This.

    Also, for your customers, if you’re working in the produce department at the grocery store. Like the guy who was putting the apples out, t’other day, and I realized if I wanted to be able to breathe whilst retrieving said fruit, I was gonna have to go deal with other things–preferably at the other end of the store (if not the city)–for a bit ’til he was done and well outta there.

    I dunno. I’m presuming he was kinda senior/managerish or somethin’, and there was no one suitably up the pecking order to tell him, ‘cos, otherwise, how can that possibly be good for business? Kinda put me off wanting food, personally* but then I also had kids to shop for, so they still made some money from my visit.

    (*/And for some days.)

  63. 63
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Hellish temperatures? It’s seventy-three and sunny in southern Oregon.

  64. 64
    Hairhead, whose head is entirely filled with Too Much Stuff

    Ing, I know I put my foot in it last time. I have written about 200,000 words on every aspect of job search most of which has not offended people, and trained other employment counsellors. If you have a specific question, ask me, and I’ll send a chapter or two of what I’ve written.

    You can email me at jobguru at intergate dot ca

  65. 65
    michaeld

    I remember when I first found this and got the little blood singing stuck in peoples heads…. MWHAHAHHAHAHAAHA

  66. 66
    Socio-gen, something something...

    Oh FFS!

    Male Republican to teach women the “art of feminine presence.”

    City & State first reported on Tuesday that Republican state Sen. Marty Golden’s office was planning career-development classes for his “female constitutients,” where participants will “‘refresh’ their knowledge of what’s new in 21st century business etiquette and social protocol.”

    “POSTURE, DEPORTMENT, AND THE FEMININE PRESENCE: walking with books on the head are outdated,” part of the course description reads. “Women who walk from their power center. The art of feminine presence. Sit, stand and walk like a model. Walk up and down a stair elegantly……and much more.”

    Those words were removed from Golden’s website after the story broke, but they are still preserved in Google cache.

  67. 67
    Ing

    Women who walk from their power center

    For some reason this gave me the image of women sliding along the floor ala a gastropod propelled by their labia folds.

  68. 68
    Sili

    For some reason this gave me the image of women sliding along the floor ala a gastropod propelled by their labia folds.

    I’ve seen enough hentai to know where this is going.

  69. 69
    Drolfe

    Re: refried beans

    The secret ingredient is straight up lard (or bacon fat). I mean that’s how you make them creamy and delicious. I love them so much, but a rare treat. I can’t stand tacos without them either. Mmm.

  70. 70
    frogkisser

    @BCPA_Lady & Ms. Daisy Cutter, RE: peri-menopausal symptoms of irregular cycles and heavy bleeding

    My gynecologist and I decided the right course of action for me was a uterine ablation when I had my tubal ligation. The ablation was effective for reducing the quantity and duration of the bleeding (and associated anemia, fatigue, etc…). It did nothing for the irregularity or the increased severity in cramping. (I have a prescription for pain killers for when the cramps are really bad.)

    NOTE #1 – I am privileged to have insurance and sufficient disposable income to pay for the surgery.
    NOTE #2 – I am extremely fortunate to have found a progressive gynecologist who considers the side effects of menstruation and peri-menopause / menopause to be worth doing something about.

  71. 71
    ImaginesABeach

    re: sometimes you just have to have beans –

    BoyChild called me at work last week, frantic because he couldn’t find the can opener and he absolutely HAD to have Bush baked beans. (obviously I laughed at him and told him if he couldn’t find it on his own, he would have to wait for me to get home).

  72. 72
    ImaginesABeach

    Also, those of you who avoid JT’s blog may have missed this. Kenley Kristofferson wrote a choral suite based on Carl Sagan’s Cosmos. It’s gorgeous.

    “Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known…”

    http://soundcloud.com/kenley-kristofferson/cosmos

  73. 73
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Hi there

    Since we’Re swapping ladybusiness-stories (hehehe), thyroxin apparently got my cycle back to 28 days. From 23 days. Better that way but it freaked me out between day 23 and 28 :)
    Also for cramps: Using a mens-cup instead of tampons works miracles.

    ++++
    Comfort food: pasta with butter, nothing else

  74. 74
    The Mellow Monkey

    Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg:

    Also for cramps: Using a mens-cup instead of tampons works miracles.

    I noticed that, too, but the problem I had was just…well…getting the cup in. I kept trying to figure out how to engineer some sort of applicator that would keep my DivaCup compressed until it was in place, but I never managed to do it. It’s disappointing, because I loved the convenience of it. I just couldn’t spend an hour at a time fighting with the damn thing.

  75. 75
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing:

    For some reason this gave me the image of women sliding along the floor ala a gastropod propelled by their labia folds.

    Ha!

    And ow!

  76. 76
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Dear Mother Nature:
    Pensacola is good. We don’t need more rain. I can think of other places that need the rain more.

    ~~
    Just got back from Publix, where, despite having a grocery list, I still managed to spend $125. I blame whoever mentioned chili first, since that’s the primary reason I went there. I’m about to venture to the movies to see Amazing Spider-Man in 3-D IMAX (ugh, my friend Maria wants to see it that way; I detest 3-D, but she saw Avengers with me in 2-D, so I think it’s only fair).
    Will be cooking the chili when I get back (assuming I’m hungry after eating popcorn, nachos and hot dogs). Dessert may be peanut butter/chocolate chip cookies *or* yellow cake with chocolate frosting (my all time favorite dessert).

  77. 77
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Ladybusiness:

    From menarche to age 22, I was like clockwork. To the extent that at 9:30 am on the second day, I would puke.

    Then, at 22, I had my thyroid removed. Cue chaos! Irregular cycles, random spotting, odd flows, etc.

    Also, 3 ovarian cysts in 6 months. OW.

    Complained to the gyno. Got the pill! Was awesome.

    Stopped bleeding. Like, at all. This was awesome.

    Gyno found out. Got all pissy. Insisted that my dosages must be wrong.

    *flail*

  78. 78
    drbunsen, le savant fous

    leftwingfox:

    For boys, it was the “Three P’s”: Puberty, Pregnancy, and Penile Emissions. Anything to do with sex itself was completely obscured.

    DOES NOT COMPUTE

    —-

    You know, I was all ready for that film to be terrible, but the sciencey stuff in it was pretty alright. Plainly explained, with a minimum of weasel words, and an effort to emphasize that variations from the norm were to be expected.

    Until we got the minimizing of period pain, and the importance of being a proper Lady no matter what.

  79. 79
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    cm:
    Telling them they’re wrong about God (whether on the job or through them finding you on LinkedFriendFace™) is a really good way of pissing them off and makes that job more difficult.

    Keeping one’s ‘atheist views’ a secret is nothing more than simply not stating ‘I don’t believe in god’. Such an innocuous statement. I guess I don’t understand why coworkers would even get pissed off (unless they hear ‘I don’t believe in god’, but their brains hear ‘God is a fucking fairy tale’).

  80. 80
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Queen SUCKS!

    And, unfortunately, any cassette tape, left in the car for a fortnight, will turn into a cassette of Queen’s Greatest Hits. Which is fine if you want to hear Mozart’s Requium sung by F. Mercury.

    More pregnant people!

    I think they have figured out what causes that.

    She increasingly identifies as Christian—which (as is usual) means what she wants it to mean.

    I think this could be used as a definition of modern American Christianity.

    I cannot get the music into my brain unless I hear it as “dum dum dum Star Wars, nothing but Star Wars.” I have to add words, even made up words, to Chopin preludes.

    Wife has added words to the National Geographic Special music: “Look at the fossil! Look at the fossil o-o-on the ground!” I think there may have been more, but she claims to have forgotten.

    Speaking of which, what types of food does everyone find comforting?

    Tuna noodle casserole.

    Roast beef with potatoes and brussels sprouts.

    Blueberry pie with vanilla ice cream.

    A ham, cheese, pepper and onion omelette.

    A Reuben sandwich.

    Bread pudding.

    Bean soup with a nice smoked hock.

    —NEW THREAD—

    People, please shower regularly, especially during these hellish temperatures. If not for yourselves, if not for unsuspecting strangers that might stand next to you on the tram or bus, please do it for members of your household and your coworkers.

    While at the forest fire, swealtering in 105F heat (but it really was a dry heat), I was able to shower every other day. Of course, I then put back on the same sweaty clothing I had been wearing before (I changed at night), but it did keep me from becoming too dangerous. I was able to shower the night before I flew home and wore clean clothes (well, they still smelled of smoke, but they were clean).

    Hellish temperatures? It’s seventy-three and sunny in southern Oregon.

    Bite me.

    Where in Southern Oregon? I have been to some fires near Medford and it is a beautiful area.

  81. 81
    madphd

    re: refried beans (that’s a lot of re)

    Here’s the basics of a recipe I got out of a Mexican cookbook.

    Pinto beans
    Chop and caramelize onion in bacon fat or lard.
    Add dried beans and thyme.
    Cover beans with water and cook until tender (2 – 3 hours).
    Replenish water as necessary to keep the beans covered.
    Salt to taste (don’t add salt before cooking, it will toughen the beans).
    These beans are good as is or with a bit of corn bread. They are even better the following day.

    Refried pinto beans:
    Caramelize more onion in bacon fat or lard.
    Add 1 cup of the cooked beans from above.
    Add 1/4 cup of the juice from the beans above (this makes them creamy).
    Roughly mash. Add more juice as necessary to the desired consistency. The beans will thicken as they cool at the table.
    Top with cheese

    Hope this helps with the creamy beans!

  82. 82
    Part-Time Insomniac

    Oh Audley don’t even JOKE! My period went from seven days of heavy-to medium flow with OMG cramps at the end of it, to 2-3 days of “Well hurry up if you’re going to and stop with the light spotting already!” followed by medium flow, ever since I started birth control. The only upside is that since BC, cramps have become nearly nonexistent.
    —————————————————–

    Um . . . hmm, comfort food. Mealoaf, mashed potatoes, buttered noodles, ratatouille, beef stew, fish and chips, milkshakes, pie, to name a few. And of course SOUP. I’ve noticed that soup is my go-to when I’m down in the dumps.
    —————————————————–

    Ing: Do whatever distracts your mind from shrieking doomsday. I don’t recommend getting plastered, though. You don’t need a hangover on top of your unemployment-caused depression.
    ——————————————————

    About people who can’t see beyond dinnertime: My brother had that same attitude. Being a year or so without a job cured him of it quickly.
    —————————————————–

    In case I didn’t have a fit about it in the previous thread: Christ on a bike, we’re getting a second kindergarten?!?! Oh nooooo . . . now they’ll probably stick me with the teacher! Next they’ll tell me the only place teachers can go for a break is the fucking rooftop, even in winter!
    ——————————————————

    The only time I want to go out tomorrow is to run early in the morning. After that, no fucking thank you.

  83. 83
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Where in Southern Oregon? I have been to some fires near Medford and it is a beautiful area.

    Yeah, we’ve got some nice country here. I live in Ashland, which would be nice if it weren’t for all the newage morans.

  84. 84
    The Mellow Monkey

    Re: creamy beans.

    I soak my beans with baking soda added to the water, then rinse them thoroughly after I dump out the soak water. This makes them softer and cuts down on gas problems. If you cook them with the baking soda instead, it also works, but it changes the taste.

  85. 85
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Dr Bunsen:

    You know, I was all ready for that film to be terrible, but the sciencey stuff in it was pretty alright.

    Really? ‘Cos they COMPLETELY glossed over the fertilization business. Unless I’m was correct the other day when I declared that I impregnated myself*, just mentioning that a man would have to contribute would be, you know, less confusing.

    *I am just that dedicated to the Femi-fascist cause.

  86. 86
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Giliell:

    Comfort food: pasta with butter, nothing else

    Hmmm, never tried that. No salt, pepper or anything?
    Is there a certain type of pasta you prefer? Easy to twirl on a fork type, pick-uppable with a spoon type, or finger food (some of the shells out there are ginormous)
    That reminds me that I also love whole grain angel hair pasta tossed in olive oil, salt, pepper, shallots, and lots n lots of garlic. Eaten by itself it is quite tasty. With grilled chicken or grilled salmon it is phenomenal.

  87. 87
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    PTI:

    Oh Audley don’t even JOKE!

    Sorry! Sorry!

    I was* very regular, but I really think that I’m the anomaly. Just talking to other women has convinced me that this 28 days, bleeding for 3 is pretty much bullshit.

    *Who knows what’ll happen to my body after the DF is born, though.

  88. 88
    birgerjohansson

    Don’t Mess With Canada http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/03/canada.html
    The average Canadian household is now worth more than the average American household. This has a lot to do with more regulations in the banking sector. And the Canadians are apparently not freaked out by immigration.
    Please notice The Daily Beast is a conservative news site, so all of the above is not “controversial”.

  89. 89
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Also, I could tell you about the awful physical effects of my healthy pregnancy if you’d like, PTI. XD

    (Shorter: It has sucked way more than my period.)

  90. 90
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    All this food talk is making me hungry.

    I ordered a pizza.

  91. 91
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    So, I wanted to express something I was talking about on PET.

    After thinking about it awhile, I think the “you can be rude/we’re not nice about bad ideas” maxim that we follow here at Pharyngula is sometimes taken to an extreme. Are there actual trolls? Yes, but sometimes I don’t think we give enough time to find out. I could’ve sworn PZ had some kind of rule for this, like you’re supposed to let someone post three times before you give up rational discourse and attack, but I don’t really see that being enforced. I do see people, who may or may not genuinely be clueless noobs, being jumped on with “you’re a misogynist shitwit and fuck off and here’s your porcupine, etc.”

    Maybe I’m sympathetic because I was once a clueless noob. My clueless noob story was on Shakesville. I came in there, didn’t know anything about feminism. I asked stupid questions, I argued, I was probably pompous, I didn’t like having my privilege challenged, but I got through it. People were willing to listen, and explain, and not insta-ban me because I didn’t capitulate and agree with them. Shakesville changed, though, and I stopped reading it. They’ve gotten tired of going over Feminism-101 type stuff and new people are frequently summarily banned. If I had come to Shakesville and they acted then like they do now, and gotten such a summary dismissal, I probably would not be a feminist right now.

    And I guess that’s what I’m getting at. I know people are tired of clueless noobs, are tired of explaining 101-type things. I’m sure as shit tired of it, but handing someone a link and kicking their ass is apparently not working. I love the community here and I want to see it grow, rather than shrink the way Shakesville has down to a core group of sycophantic-sounding regulars. I don’t think we can grow Pharyngula with the level of hostility I’ve seen.

    I’m not saying we should be nice just to be nice. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be harsh about bad ideas. Hell, I’m not exactly sure what I’m saying. I can’t make anyone change, and I don’t even know what form that change should take.

  92. 92
    drbunsen, le savant fous

    Really? ‘Cos they COMPLETELY glossed over the fertilization business.

    Yeahno, they did do that, you’re right. But apart from splaining how is babbeh formed …

    :/

    And is it just me, or is “Mother Nature” a constitution-friendly stand-in for Jahweh?

  93. 93
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    RahXeophon,
    I both agree and disagree with you there. Continually having to fight 101 battles is tiring, but it is also true that the 101 battles need to be fought again and again.

    That may be the value of a TET, or (on Shakesville) an open thread. A place where the rules are a bit more relaxed and 101 questions can be asked without the GTFO response that they get (and quite honestly frequently deserve) elsewhere.

  94. 94
    drbunsen, le savant fous

    just mentioning that a man would have to contribute would be, you know, less confusing.

    Gaaah, I completely forget that people don’t just know this. The concept of this not being part of one’s background knowledge about the world – and I’m not 100% clear whether I even picked it up from first – boggles me so hard I forget that it’s even a thing.

    Mea culpa.

  95. 95
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    drbunsen:

    And is it just me, or is “Mother Nature” a constitution-friendly stand-in for Jahweh?

    Pffft, Yahweh doesn’t concern himself with icky feminine expulsions– he leaves that to the cleaning lady.

  96. 96
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Beatrice #21: I’m sorry, but normally during the summer months (right now we’re getting an uncharacteristically large bout of rain) I can’t shower much because my house is on well water and we run out. I shower at my grandparents’, which I need to take the bus to get to.

  97. 97
    drbunsen, le savant fous

    I guess what I’m saying is that my brain just inserted that information where it was required in the film and assumed everyone else would too, forgetting that not everyone – and not every young girl of the 1950s in particular – has that information at hand.

  98. 98
    drbunsen, le savant fous

    he leaves that to the cleaning lady.

    +++WIN :D

  99. 99
    The Mellow Monkey

    My mother once had a client–grown, married, pregnant woman–who thought that after cutting it free from her newborn the umbilical cord would snap back up inside her and grow another baby on the end.

    Even now, there is frightening ignorance.

  100. 100
    Pteryxx

    I could’ve sworn PZ had some kind of rule for this, like you’re supposed to let someone post three times before you give up rational discourse and attack, but I don’t really see that being enforced. I do see people, who may or may not genuinely be clueless noobs, being jumped on with “you’re a misogynist shitwit and fuck off and here’s your porcupine, etc.”

    My observation is that during Elevator Wars and 3d4k, the three-post rule went out the window, because virtually *every* supposedly clueless or oh-so-rational poster turned nasty or disingenuous or both over the course of a few hours; and there were hundreds of them. That’s when the Slimepit began, too, populated by some of the most obstinate and slippery of such posters.

    At the time my estimate was 95% to 99% of just-asking posters were asking in bad faith. Nowadays, my estimate’s down to about 80% at the most generous.

    I hesitate to suggest folks should consider less-immediate porcupine presentation though, because I’m a rotten judge of bad faith and subtle condescension, and because anger and impatience are so often warranted. How much feminism-101 should the regulars be willing to do? Especially when demanding women explain themselves IS one of the manifestations of sexism?

    disclaimer – *I* explain just by default. It doesn’t mean I’m setting a good example.

  101. 101
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    My mother once had a client–grown, married, pregnant woman–who thought that after cutting it free from her newborn the umbilical cord would snap back up inside her and grow another baby on the end.

    LOL. Sorry, maybe I shouldn’t laugh, but it made me picture one of those pens like you see in some banks that are on a string with some kinda spring-loaded wheel, and when you let go it goes SCHLOOP! and pulls the pen back.

  102. 102
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Esteleth, I’ve heard that complete cessation of menstruation can increase one’s cancer risk (not sure if it’s ovarian, uterine, or cervical), but I can’t find anything on Google.

    RahXephon, I really don’t see Pharyngula going the way of Shakesville. The personalities behind the two blogs are very, very different.

    Also, I disagree agree with you that the current modus operandi “isn’t working,” because a lot of people have come out of the woodwork in the last year to tell us we’ve changed their minds. You will never change everybody’s mind, and you have to be okay with that. The hogglers aren’t going to change. The people who seldom comment, or comment only once, and then whine about the tone and how they’re taking their ball and going home, have not been noted for their contributions in other topics.

  103. 103
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    BCPA_Lady, it’s depressing how much homophobia is in that Raw Story thread. Only a few people are calling it out.

    Setar: Are sponge baths workable for you? Or use of baby wipes?

  104. 104
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    My observation is that during Elevator Wars and 3d4k, the three-post rule went out the window, because virtually *every* supposedly clueless or oh-so-rational poster turned nasty or disingenuous or both over the course of a few hours; and there were hundreds of them. That’s when the Slimepit began, too, populated by some of the most obstinate and slippery of such posters.

    I wasn’t really talking about during Troll General Quarters, just peacetime operations.

    And yes, I know trolls have diversified their tactics. However, since JAQing off and condescension and other things are tactics that can, and have, been identified, I thought it would be easier to tell. I know it’s hard, because someone who’s “just asking questions” so they can learn, and someone who’s “just asking questions” to waste your time and be an asshole seem so similar.

    The rule I follow, for instance, is that if I answer someone and their post indicates to me that they didn’t actually read my post (i.e. they basically just repeat their first post), then they’re probably trolling.

    I hesitate to suggest folks should consider less-immediate porcupine presentation though, because I’m a rotten judge of bad faith and subtle condescension, and because anger and impatience are so often warranted.

    I don’t use the porcupine thing. I went to ERV to argue with Justicar after Justin’s thread, and they’re trying really hard to quash the “kick Ophelia in the cunt” joke because they know it’s bad for them. Whether people understand what the porcupine thing is about or not, I think it’s becoming a rhetorical liability, because people are latching on to it as a bad thing.

    How much feminism-101 should the regulars be willing to do?

    How much they’re willing to do is up to the individual. I don’t think anyone should be required to do any 101-ing, but I also think “either I 101 or I attack back” is a false dichotomy (not that you were necessarily making such a dichotomy, Pteryxx).

  105. 105
    frogkisser

    re: Comfort Food

    Boxty with rabbit sausage & Greek yogurt

    Roasted garlic with a touch of sea salt spread on toasted rye bread

    Quesadillas with pico de gallo and black beans

  106. 106
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Dr Bunsen:

    The concept of this not being part of one’s background knowledge about the world – and I’m not 100% clear whether I even picked it up from first – boggles me so hard I forget that it’s even a thing.

    My mom tells a very interesting story about the time that she and my dad lived in Idaho Falls, ID during the late 70s.

    You see, Idaho Falls is (was?) a Mormon stronghold. My parents were one of the few non-Mormon households in the entire town, so naturally when my mom made friends, they were by-and-large Mormon women. One of these women was in her early 20s and had 4 kids already (she had married at 17).

    One day, the Mormon friend asked mom why she only had two kids, considering that mom had been married for more than two years. When mom asked her to clarify, Mormon friend told her that women have one baby a year after they are married unless they become “sick” and she was concerned about my mom’s health. When she pressed further, mom found out that Mormon friend had no idea that having sex with her husband was what made babies, she thought that babies happened automatically once you got married. Having sex just showed your submission to the head of the household.

    Remember: This woman had four children at this point and was in her early 20s. She had no clue how babby is formed. I’ve heard this story a million times and it still blows my fucking mind.

    Anyway, mom sat her down and explained the mechanics of sex. Apparently, Mormon friend was mortified and didn’t believe the biological realities of baby making. Mom did a good deed, but I’m pretty sure she lost a friend that day (albeit a friend that refused to face reality).

  107. 107
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    I really don’t see Pharyngula going the way of Shakesville. The personalities behind the two blogs are very, very different.

    The personalities are different, but I think that the frustration and lack of patience displayed by the people who run Shakesville is manifesting here in some of the commenters.

    Also, I disagree agree with you that the current modus operandi “isn’t working,” because a lot of people have come out of the woodwork in the last year to tell us we’ve changed their minds.

    Much like Thunderchrist’s ridiculous straw-poll of his own commenters, isn’t that susceptible to self-selection bias? People who’s minds were changed are going to comment here and say so; people who’s minds were not changed are probably going to not comment again or comment at all, so how could they ever be counted? I agree there are people for whom the rhetorical style here works, but there’s an unknown number for whom it does not, and they can’t all be trolls.

  108. 108
    Inaji

    Audley:

    Just talking to other women has convinced me that this 28 days, bleeding for 3 is pretty much bullshit.

    I certainly don’t think that’s the case for most women, however, I was a 28 days, bleeding for 3 (max). In my case, I started my period very young (9.5 years old) and I bled closer to 5 days. As I got older, I got involved in athletics and the bleeding days were quickly pared down to 3 at most. Staying active kept it there. It wasn’t until about 6 months before I started menopause (at 36) that it went berserk and I went to 5 to 7 days bleeding. That was fucking hell, but at least it didn’t last long.

  109. 109
    Pteryxx

    RahXephon: you’ve got more bullshit-tolerance than me to go tangle with Justicar.

    The rule I follow, for instance, is that if I answer someone and their post indicates to me that they didn’t actually read my post (i.e. they basically just repeat their first post), then they’re probably trolling.

    Yeah, I have some similar rules, such as disproportionate response to criticism vs. info, or to female nyms vs. male or neutral.

    As far as the porcupine meme, the dedicated haters use a whole bunch of memes, most of which are outright lies and slurs. I’m not sure changing the meme would do any good.

  110. 110
  111. 111
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    The personalities are different, but I think that the frustration and lack of patience displayed by the people who run Shakesville is manifesting here in some of the commenters.

    We’ve been in the wars a lot longer. Also, even the most ferocious of us often take the time to go slow and educate with people. What you’re leaving out here, to a great extent, is experience. Most of the regulars here know, very quickly, what they’re dealing with.

    Also, RahXephon, there isn’t a thing or a person on the planet or on Pharyngula who is stopping you from being nice or being a nice educator. If that’s what you want to see more of, do it.

    Pteryxx is a good example of someone who primarily chooses to educate. No one here jumps up and down on Pteryxx for doing so. That was one of the reasons cited for being OM nommed. My reason, to be exact.

  112. 112
    The Mellow Monkey

    Audley Z. Darkheart (liar and scoundrel):

    Remember: This woman had four children at this point and was in her early 20s. She had no clue how babby is formed. I’ve heard this story a million times and it still blows my fucking mind.

    That is both horrifying and yet somehow not surprising. The kids in the Mormon family I grew up playing with didn’t know what sex was, other than a dirty word. Man, when I showed them the S volume of the encyclopedia their parents were pissed.

  113. 113
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    Re: creamy beans.

    I soak my beans with baking soda added to the water, then rinse them thoroughly after I dump out the soak water. This makes them softer and cuts down on gas problems. If you cook them with the baking soda instead, it also works, but it changes the taste.

    What proportions do you use, about?

  114. 114
    Rowan vet-tech

    @73 Giliell-

    I never use tampons because they always felt weird. If they make cramps worse, I’m glad I didn’t use them! Plus, I have super heavy periods and always needed to wear a pad *with* the tampon, so I never really saw the point.

    Having Niagara Falls from my nether regions for 8 days when I was newly 11 years old did NOT make me a happy camper. -_-

    I’ve also only ever tried birth control pills once to help with irregularity but I had such an adverse reaction to the *one* dose that I’ve been too chicken to try again! Chills, tremors, migraine and projectile vomiting are not in my list of “okay” side effects. Being told by the doctor “Oh, those will decrease and go away as you keep taking it” was more than a trifle irritating.

  115. 115
    Pteryxx

    People who’s minds were changed are going to comment here and say so; people who’s minds were not changed are probably going to not comment again or comment at all, so how could they ever be counted?

    Actually, most of the lurkers who post to say their minds were changed, or to say thank you, rarely or never post again. They go right back to lurking. Only a small fraction become ongoing commenters. Numbers wise, in my estimation, the ones who delurk seem roughly equal in number to the presumptive trolls. I’d also hazard a guess that since trolls are by nature confrontational, the real number of thankful lurkers probably is greater than the real number of would-be trolls who remain silent.

  116. 116
    Inaji

    Hi, Caine. :)

    Hi, Daisy. How are you doing?

  117. 117
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    I’m doing better, thanks. How are the ratties?

  118. 118
    The Mellow Monkey

    Azkyroth: If I’m soaking, I’ll add a tablespoon for a full pot (about 5 quarts). If I’m skipping the soak, I’d add 1/8 teaspoon to a similar amount of water so the flavor isn’t too awful. It makes the skins prone to coming off the beans when they cook, too, but if I’m trying to make creamy refried beans that’s a bonus.

  119. 119
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Also, even the most ferocious of us often take the time to go slow and educate with people.

    I know, Caine. I didn’t mean everyone. I don’t even mean most of the commenters here.I’m also talking about things I’ve been guilty of doing.

    Also, RahXephon, there isn’t a thing or a person on the planet or on Pharyngula who is stopping you from being nice or being a nice educator. If that’s what you want to see more of, do it.

    As I said in my first comment, it’s not even about “being nice”. I’ve seen, and committed, the mistake of transferring attacks against bad ideas, into making it about the people being bad. And some people probably are actually bad, but I’ve undoubtedly gotten pissed off and attacked someone when it wasn’t really warranted.

    My post was not a lecture, nor was it a rebuke targeted towards anyone here. They were just my feelings based on things I’ve seen happen.

  120. 120
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Ugh. Tag fail. Figures it’d happen the one time I don’t preview.

  121. 121
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Numbers wise, in my estimation, the ones who delurk seem roughly equal in number to the presumptive trolls.

    Maybe I’m reading you wrong, Pteryxx, but does this mean that there are people who have changed their minds and agree with us, and trolls? What about people who disagree and aren’t trolls?

  122. 122
    Pteryxx

    Also, even the most ferocious of us often take the time to go slow and educate with people. What you’re leaving out here, to a great extent, is experience. Most of the regulars here know, very quickly, what they’re dealing with.

    ^ This. Very often, the reasonable innocent degenerates into outright misogyny when they’re poked a bit; and this happens *regardless* of whether I or someone else bothers to behave educationally towards them. I trust that veterans have better judgement of these things than I do. I’ve seen, I think, four individuals who explicitly changed their stance *because* they were provided with evidence: the extreme clueless dude in the Skepchick sex-card thread, the extreme clueless woman here on Pharyngula who didn’t believe harassment was a problem, Improbable Joe, and a commenter on the original Elevator threads (and it wasn’t ME who eventually convinced him). Mostly, evidence is for the lurkers.

    Caine: Thanks. *blush*

  123. 123
    Inaji

    Daisy:

    I’m doing better, thanks. How are the ratties?

    I’m glad to hear that. ♥ Oh, the ratties…

    Esme & the ratlets are well, the little ones are growing, you can see it by the day. It will be exciting when they start to resemble actual rats. :D Esme is going a bit crazed, being locked in the Rat condo with kidz, but I managed to give her some free time today. She’s in complete ferocious mommy mode.

    Havelock is doing *great*. He’s just a cheerful, happy rat. Sam…oh, poor Sam. I don’t know what in the fuck someone managed to do to him in his short 5 months of life, but someone fucked him up. Sam is absolutely terrified of people, terrified in the sense of “freezes up, oh god, I’m gonna die, I’m gonna die” if you lightly pet him. We’ll do what we can for him. Rubin is Rubin, spooky as ever, but happy to have Sam for company.

  124. 124
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    FWIW, count me in as one of the former lurkers to who delurked to put my foot in my mouth, retreated to re-lurking, then came back, this time avoiding my initial mistakes (at least I hope so).

  125. 125
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Rah:

    The personalities are different, but I think that the frustration and lack of patience displayed by the people who run Shakesville is manifesting here in some of the commenters.

    The commenters don’t run Pharyngula. Also, Shakesville’s dysfunction is not limited to the severe commenting policy.

    I agree there are people for whom the rhetorical style here works, but there’s an unknown number for whom it does not, and they can’t all be trolls.

    Again, we can’t be all things to all people. If we were to soften the rhetorical style, we’d win some people over, but we’d lose others over.

  126. 126
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Very often, the reasonable innocent degenerates into outright misogyny when they’re poked a bit; and this happens *regardless* of whether I or someone else bothers to behave educationally towards them.

    Yes, that’s totally true. I guess all I’m saying is that if we have a heuristic (“reasonable innocents usually degenerate into trolls”), that heuristic is valid, but I don’t think the degeneration part should be skipped. If you engage with someone rationally and they explode, the record shows them as the irrational one.

    I guess the archetypal example I’m thinking of is the Sara Mayhew/Kylie Sturgess incident. I saw Sara leave one comment, and Aquaria totally slammed her. I don’t know Sara Mayhew, maybe there was history there, but given that I don’t have any knowledge of that history, it just looked like someone leaving one reasonable but dissenting comment and then getting slammed. Even if it were justified, I didn’t think it looked good.

  127. 127
    frogkisser

    De-lurking

    I appreciate those who take the time to educate (and I’m not saying anyone is obligated to do so). I’ve acquired some very effective ways to effectively articulate why a particular behavior/attitude/position gets under my skin from those (like Pteryxx) who educate. Thank you!

    I’ve also had my confidence bolstered by those who call bullshit and stand up to the trolls. I am more capable of calling out privilege/racism/sexism/etc… when confronted with it because I’ve seen people do it here and and as a consequence I am better able to see my own views as valid and rational. Thank you!

  128. 128
    Pteryxx

    RahXephon:

    Maybe I’m reading you wrong, Pteryxx, but does this mean that there are people who have changed their minds and agree with us, and trolls? What about people who disagree and aren’t trolls?

    IMHO, people who openly disagree with the premises of the harassment discussion (as opposed to not knowing about them) and aren’t trolls are very, very rare. What I mostly saw when the harassment policy discussion started, for instance, was a lot of *questioning* – and they were honest questions, such as “How common is harassment really” and “Why isn’t DJ’s survey valid”, not questions like “Are you sure you didn’t just misinterpret the situation”. (I recognized THOSE questions from the Elevator threads a year ago.) Also, they were honest questions because evidence for them was considered and accepted immediately.

    If there WERE substantial reasons to challenge any of the premises, they would’ve been considered by now.

  129. 129
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    The commenters don’t run Pharyngula. Also, Shakesville’s dysfunction is not limited to the severe commenting policy.

    Both true.

    Again, we can’t be all things to all people. If we were to soften the rhetorical style, we’d win some people over, but we’d lose others over.

    And I’m not even suggesting the rhetorical style be softened. I’m talking about staying on target.

  130. 130
    Inaji

    Esteleth:

    count me in as one of the former lurkers to who delurked to put my foot in my mouth

    Huh. I don’t remember you doing that at all.

  131. 131
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Caine:

    I certainly don’t think that’s the case for most women, however, I was a 28 days, bleeding for 3 (max).

    I’m extremely regular myself– every 29 days for 4 days max. If I was more physically active, I’m sure it would be even shorter.

    I just know so many women who have “irregular” periods, that I really wonder if it’s more likely to be regular and light (like us) or if being irregular and having WHOA AWFUL symptoms is more the norm.

    I suppose I could take my question to the Google machine.

  132. 132
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Caine:

    I don’t remember you doing that at all.

    *rubs hands*

    AHAHAHA MY PLAN IS WORKING.

  133. 133
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    I don’t know Sara Mayhew, maybe there was history there, but given that I don’t have any knowledge of that history

    There’s a history there. It’s not pretty, either. I think this is much of the problem for a lot of people (not talking about you, just generally) – a lot of people pop in and out, and it turns out they are utterly ignorant of the history behind a certain topic or persons, etc., which makes things look unreasonable to them, and makes them seem like total idiots to us.

    I will say that it’s very frustrating dealing with the pop-ins, because they don’t stick it out, like the regulars do and they have zero sense of the continuity, time lines and people involved in the history of specific subjects and events.

    Frogkisser:

    Thank you!

    Thank you. Welcome! Interestin’ nym you have there. Are you owned by frogses?

  134. 134
    Part-Time Insomniac

    To be all things to all people is impossible. I think the nice thing is that here at Pharyngula we do have our share of people who go for the softer approach, which must draw some people in who wouldn’t bother otherwise. How they react to the discovery of the more blunt and direct crowd is up to them. I kind of wish the written version of dropping an anvil on someone’s head wasn’t needed, but it works, as we’ve seen by the number of lurkers who tell how they’ve had their minds changed when confronted with the facts.

    Maybe the more people see the lurkers admitting that’s when their stances changed, the more they’ll be encouraged pay attention to the less-than-soft posts?

    I hope the porcupine meme doesn’t need to be thrown out. It gives me great pleasure to see it used on the worst of the trolls and various other twits we get.

  135. 135
    Inaji

    Audley:

    I just know so many women who have “irregular” periods, that I really wonder if it’s more likely to be regular and light (like us) or if being irregular and having WHOA AWFUL symptoms is more the norm.

    I’ve done zero research on this, but I’m willing to place my money on irregular, complete hell being the norm.

  136. 136
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    *waves at frogkisser*

    If I didn’t have so many pets, I’d be sorely tempted to buy a dumpy tree frog ‘cos OMG SO CUTE!

  137. 137
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    IMHO, people who openly disagree with the premises of the harassment discussion (as opposed to not knowing about them) and aren’t trolls are very, very rare.

    True. Like I said, I know there are situations where the troll-to-genuine ratio’s gonna be really low. Talking about even the mildest harassment policy is, sadly, one of those times.

    Also, they were honest questions because evidence for them was considered and accepted immediately.

    Yep. I wish that was where my “repetition rule” could be officially enforced. That’s why sometimes I say something like “I have presented you evidence, and either accept it or give me counter-evidence or a counter-argument that refutes it; either way, address it or you’re not arguing honestly.”

  138. 138
    Socio-gen, something something...

    frogkisser: I’ve considered ablation, but my other health issues make it a more complicated procedure than I want to deal with, at least at this point.

    Giliell: That’s my oldest son’s go-to comfort food as well. Egg noodles tossed with a little butter. Sometimes to change things up he sprinkles in a bit of Tabasco sauce.

    Caerie: I am so glad I am not the only person who had issues with DivaCup insertion! I just gave up after too many frustrating attempts.

    Esteleth: After I had my daughter in ’92, I opted for the 5-year Norplant. Most excellent side effect was that my periods ended. *sing-song voice* Awesome! */sing-song* I planned to have them until I turned 80.

    My gyno, on the other hand, was not so thrilled and demanded I come in to have them removed, claiming (perhaps truthfully) that not having periods would make my ladyparts go bad or something. I switched docs and had 10 lovely period-free years before they took the Norplant off the market.

    drbunsen: Said daughter had a classmate in 9th grade who learned she was pregnant at ~6 months along, but did not believe it because (and I quote) “Everybody knows you can only get pregnant if you fall asleep in a bed with your husband.” She had no clue that sex and babies were in any way related.

  139. 139
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Caine: Aw, poor Sam. :( I’m glad he wound up with you and Mister; hopefully he’ll unlearn some of what he’s learned. I’m glad Rubin is taking to him, too.

    Rah: Sara Mayhew turned out to be a nasty customer as well. You can watch her in action on this thread.

    Pteryxx:

    IMHO, people who openly disagree with the premises of the harassment discussion (as opposed to not knowing about them) and aren’t trolls are very, very rare.

    This is my impression as well.

  140. 140
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    I’m talking about staying on target.

    Hmmm. Seems to me that the regulars try to stay on target constantly, however, that’s hardly an easy proposition when you have multiple people firing off in all different directions, generally because they don’t have a good argument. That shit has to be addressed, even when it is off target or a totally bizarre tangent. We’re dealing with people here, and those things are messy. Just in case you haven’t noticed. ;)

  141. 141
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    I’ve done zero research on this, but I’m willing to place my money on irregular, complete hell being the norm.

    Anecdotal, but the only women I know who don’t complain about irregularity or severe cramping are post-menopausal.

  142. 142
    Rowan vet-tech

    On a completely off topic note, I have a happy for I have a 13 day old kitten making biscuits and purring on my lap. :3

  143. 143
    frogkisser

    Caine, Fleur du mal

    The nym comes from a discussion I had several years ago with my director about a hiring decision I made that he questioned. (I was hiring someone internally who was having difficulties performing on his current team.) I explained to the director that when you kiss frogs (provide a working environment suitable to a person’s temperament and work style) you often get princes (and I did). I further explained I recognize there are also toads and kissing them does not yield princes, and if you do it long enough you get warts. (I know toads and frogs don’t actually cause warts.) From then on, I was frogkisser (we had a good relationship and the nym was applied kindly). Also, the most push-back I got on hiring decisions after that was the question “are you sure you’ve got a frog not a toad?”.

  144. 144
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    That’s why sometimes I say something like “I have presented you evidence, and either accept it or give me counter-evidence or a counter-argument that refutes it; either way, address it or you’re not arguing honestly.”

    Jesus Christ, Rah. Are you going to pretend that this ^ isn’t said about a hundred times each and every fucking day by regulars here? Because if so, I have news for you – it is.

    I’m not sure what your point is with all this, but it might be advisable to just spit it out.

  145. 145
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    There’s a history there. It’s not pretty, either. I think this is much of the problem for a lot of people (not talking about you, just generally) – a lot of people pop in and out, and it turns out they are utterly ignorant of the history behind a certain topic or persons, etc., which makes things look unreasonable to them, and makes them seem like total idiots to us.

    Oh, okay. Well, I see how that’s a problem, but I also don’t have a solution. That puts me back at square one (if I was ever at square one). Maybe there should be an appendix to the dungeon (or in architectural terms, I guess a vestibule) for trolls-not-yet-banhammer’d. That still relies on people reading it first, though, and someone willing to form and curate such a list.

  146. 146
    dianne

    FWIW, my menses are irregular and meh-ish rather than hellish. The cramps aren’t fun, but they’re nothing to complain about. Two, maybe 3 on the infamous pain scale at worst.

  147. 147
    Inaji

    Daisy:

    Aw, poor Sam. :( I’m glad he wound up with you and Mister; hopefully he’ll unlearn some of what he’s learned. I’m glad Rubin is taking to him, too.

    There’s always hope, but Sam, like Rubin, is one I won’t push it with. Some rats simply won’t socialize to humans and I have no interest in adding to Sam’s basic terror. Rubin and Sam took to one another immediately. My two spooks. :D

    Frogkisser:

    Also, the most push-back I got on hiring decisions after that was the question “are you sure you’ve got a frog not a toad?”.

    Hahahahaha. That is a fabulous story and it’s a grand nym.

  148. 148
    Pteryxx

    I should elaborate on this, now that I’ve seen it in action.

    Pteryxx: Also, they were honest questions because evidence for them was considered and accepted immediately.

    RahXephon: Yep. I wish that was where my “repetition rule” could be officially enforced. That’s why sometimes I say something like “I have presented you evidence, and either accept it or give me counter-evidence or a counter-argument that refutes it; either way, address it or you’re not arguing honestly.”

    That’s on the individual level. Because I was following the harassment policy discussion so closely, *and* because I did the research on low reporting rates, I got to witness this firsthand on the community level. After Jason cited the research links I provided on extremely low reporting rates, over the next ten days or so, that information spread all through the skeptic-atheist online discussions without any further action from me or Jason. I saw total strangers in conversations on Skepchick and Patheos citing that research, and the community as a whole gradually abandoned the concept that DJ’s survey substantiated a harassment-free environment. Now, the premise that sexual harassment is both common and underreported are widely accepted by everyone *except* those arguing in bad faith, when almost nobody (including me) knew that at the start of the discussion. Anyone who honestly investigates can find that information before they ever comment; and almost all of them do.

    (I still can’t believe nobody figured to suggest harassment policies a year ago. I’m never living that one down.)

  149. 149
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Jesus Christ, Rah. Are you going to pretend that this ^ isn’t said about a hundred times each and every fucking day by regulars here? Because if so, I have news for you – it is.

    I know it is, Caine. Sorry I implied it wasn’t.

    I’m not sure what your point is with all this, but it might be advisable to just spit it out.

    My point is that I’m not as confident as other people here in debating. As you pointed out, I have a lot less experience compared to you and, like Pteryxx, I have a harder time telling when people are and aren’t being honest.

    I’m sorry I wrote what should’ve been a self-examination of my own behavior as a judgment of the tactics of others. I screwed up.

  150. 150
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Fuck.

    After six months with nothing selling, I go to a fire and *BOOM*, two of my books sell on Amazon. So of course both are now late. I sent an email to both buyers with what is probably the most original excuse ever in the history of Amazon.

    Wife thinks it very unfair that, with our youngest now aged 19, she is still having her period. She claims it is not fair.

    I agree.

  151. 151
    marilove

    Caerie
    3 July 2012 at 4:00 pm

    I hit the uterine jackpot, I think. TMI: My cycle is 30 days long and I only have a 3 day period. SCORE. The only downside is if I ever do decide to use it for its intended purpose, since that long of a cycle reduces the number of ovulations I have per year.

    I’m pretty much the same way! I was on hormonal birth control for like a year and recently stopped, and that first month after I stopped I had a pretty “bad” period but even then … it was seriously not that bad. Hah.

    I can also handle any kind of hormonal birth control you toss at me. I’ve taken the morning after pill twice and had no side effects whatsoever. I’ll probably get back on the pill again soon, actually.

  152. 152
    Pteryxx

    Caine, by the way, thank you so much for all the rattie updates. I keep looking back at them to stay grounded in cuteness.

    May I ask how the runty pup is doing?

  153. 153
    irisvanderpluym

    Ing: http://www.27bslash6.com/

    rowanvt:

    I have a happy for I have a 13 year old kitteh making biscuits and purring on my lap.

  154. 154
    Rowan vet-tech

    @151 Marilove-

    Not faaaaaaair. ;_; I must have annoyed the Uterine Faerie at some point.

  155. 155
    dianne

    Wife thinks it very unfair that, with our youngest now aged 19, she is still having her period. She claims it is not fair.

    I had my kid at 35. When she’s 13-15 (menarche), I’ll be 48-50 (menopause.) I’m figuring that I’ll prescribe a bunch of benzos to my partner so he can survive those couple of years and we’ll just melodrama it out as needed.

  156. 156
    Ing

    http://www.27bslash6.com/

    Can you put a context on the link please?

  157. 157
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    That still relies on people reading it first

    Yeah, and that’s really not going to happen. We have people here who still can’t be arsed to look through the Molly list before nominating people who are already mollied.

    Besides, there were specific incidents which were chronicled at the wiki and that exploded all over hell and gone, not only in a sustained argument between regulars, but a troll went ballistic over it as well, insisting that the info be edited to their specific approval or removed. Sorry, not workable.

    If someone simply isn’t certain of a history, it’s probably best to ask. There’s always someone willing to helpfully provide links to a backstory.

  158. 158
    Rowan vet-tech

    @153 Iris-

    Awwwww….. I loves me some old lady and old man cats too. I adopted my “heart cat” when he was 13 and I got to have 2 years with him. He was the bestest. I’m fostering a 9 week old kitten who reminds me of him a lot. Little Sammi will throw herself onto her back for tummy rubs, and they’re not a trick! She will also sit in your arms for aaaaaages. :3 I wanna keep her. >_<

  159. 159
    opposablethumbs

    any cassette tape, left in the car for a fortnight, will turn into a cassette of Queen’s Greatest Hits. Which is fine if you want to hear Mozart’s Requium sung by F. Mercury.

  160. 160
    marilove

    “We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective”
    3 July 2012 at 4:29 pm

    sorry to bug people but does anyone have advice for getting out of depression funk? Unemployment is hitting me much harder than I thought. I’m going to try acting like I’m self employed and giving myself a work day to do crafty stuff tomorrow.

    I know how you feel, girl. I am also unemployed. I went through some serious depression recently, which is unusual for me. Ugh.

    Get out and take at least one walk a day, if you can (or jog if that’s your thing). Or jump in the pool, if you’ve got one. Get yourself moving, even if it’s just a little bit.

    Get up, dressed, and showered every morning at the same time. Set your alarm. Do it. I am terrible at this but trust me, it helps.

    Do the job hunting or whatever in the morning, then keep yourself busy — maybe clean your living space, or even clean out the closet or work on organizing/re-arranging stuff, maybe go through your clothes to sell/donate or whatever.

    Cuddle with your pets. That helps me. :)

  161. 161
    A. R

    It looks like the slimepit is going to have to leave Sb. (I would link, but I don’t think anyone wants slimepit links here.)

  162. 162
    Ing

    @Rah

    Troll is basically a meaningless term IMO now. I honestly don’t care if someone is just thick or is intentionally acting like an idiot. I just don’t care.

    Let me also just say, I don’t think I’ve seen an effort to be nicer that actually payed off here. Just saying.

  163. 163
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Yeah, and that’s really not going to happen. We have people here who still can’t be arsed to look through the Molly list before nominating people who are already mollied.

    Looks around guiltily. er.

    Sorry.

  164. 164
    frogkisser

    Caine, Fleur du mal
    Thank you for the compliments!
    I also like reading about the rats. (All of my rat xp has been in relation to my son’s ball python, Spot, and the less said about that the better.)

    Pteryxx
    Because of information you shared on the low reporting rates of harassment, I listen more carefully when people express dissatisfaction about a situation (work, social, doesn’t matter). I ask them to elaborate and then listen some more and do my best to validate (when appropriate), that, YES, what they are experiencing IS harassment and that I will support them if they report it. My change in behavior is directly attributable to data you (and others) provided about low reporting rates. The education at FtB is, for me, much more effective than any “sensitivity/diversity training” I’ve been forced to endure at work.

  165. 165
    Inaji

    Dianne:

    I’m figuring that I’ll prescribe a bunch of benzos to my partner so he can survive those couple of years and we’ll just melodrama it out as needed.

    Eh, I don’t know. Maybe I’m an outlier, but I started menopause at 36 and sailed right through it, no problems at all. I took nothing for it, either, no HRT, nothing. I did have a month of night sweats which was a right pain in the ass, but that was it.

    RahXephon:

    My point is that I’m not as confident as other people here in debating. As you pointed out, I have a lot less experience compared to you and, like Pteryxx, I have a harder time telling when people are and aren’t being honest.

    Well, it’s best to simply be true to yourself. If you’re more comfortable assuming honesty (at least to start), then assume that and operate on that basis. If the person you’re having a discussion with turns out to be a dishonest git, then you know and you can deal with it as you see fit. I’ve read you in many a different thread and I can honestly say I see nothing at all wrong with your approach and I think you argue very well. There’s nothing wrong in arguing in good faith.

    Pteryxx, I haven’t had the opportunity to check on the babes today. Esme has them and herself completely covered over in paper towels and she’s sitting on them like a dragon with a fresh hoard of jewels. Much squeaking going on though, and I haven’t noted that any babes have been pushed out or to the side.

  166. 166
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Canned (North American) brown beans in sauce are OK, but they are much better if you add a chopped-up onion and some oregano.

  167. 167
    Inaji

    Ogvorbis:

    Sorry.

    Stop that right now. You’re going to be punished – go get a beer this second and drink it.

    Marilove:

    I know how you feel, girl.

    On the ‘net, Ing prefers to remain genderless. Gender neutral. Unstated. You get the idear.

  168. 168
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    A month of night sweats! I’ve been having hot flashes for fifteen years and my friend for ten and she knows someone who is going on for twenty. You were lucky.

  169. 169
    Pteryxx

    aw, frogkisser, now I’m all choked up. Rly. *snif*

    That’s what we educator types always hope for, that by getting the information out there, it’ll help other people make the world a better place. In a great while, it actually comes back as direct thanks. You’ve made my week, if not my year.

  170. 170
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    If there’s not enough water to shower you can do a lot with a damp cloth, soap, and a bowl of water.

  171. 171
    opposablethumbs

    she’s sitting on them like a dragon with a fresh hoard of jewels.

    Love the image!

    Hope they are all doing well – sounds like it’s good so far.

  172. 172
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    If you’re more comfortable assuming honesty (at least to start), then assume that and operate on that basis.

    I think I was afraid to do that because I didn’t want to appear to have Troll Stockholm Syndrome. Sometimes it sucks being that guy who seems to be saying “hey, I wanna hear what the doucherocket has to say!” lol

    If the person you’re having a discussion with turns out to be a dishonest git, then you know and you can deal with it as you see fit.

    Well, my first order of business is to have a small anxiety attack and get queasy. That’s one reason I suck at debate, it makes me nervous, perhaps due to my (real or perceived) mediocre skills at it.

    I’ve read you in many a different thread and I can honestly say I see nothing at all wrong with your approach and I think you argue very well. There’s nothing wrong in arguing in good faith.

    Thanks, Caine, that means a lot. It does make me feel better. I guess confidence comes with time.

  173. 173
    Ing

    I chaneled blues into a manic cooking spree

    Made Pizza today (mushroom+vegi sausage) and vegisausage stuffed portabello caps

  174. 174
    konradzielinski

    I’m rather glad that I went though an education system that actually taught this fully and openly, in mixed classes no less. Had videos making fun of videos like this. Saying that once up on a time children where told this, but we now know that this is a bad approach so we are telling you this instead.

    Note the teacher had sample of various contraceptive devices. Except that she left one in the staffroom and a boy was sent to get. He returned with The banana. On first impressions this was a plastic fruit, under the plastic banana skin was a realistic plastic phallus. This was used to demonstrate the usage of a condom.

    Yes we where all silly teenagers and many slightly embarrassed giggles and belly laughs where had in thous lessons. Overall the most entertaining health lessons in the curriculum.

  175. 175
    Usernames are smart

    I know how you feel, girl. I am also unemployed. I went through some serious depression recently, which is unusual for me.—marilove #160

    Oh man. Sorry. Hang in there; it’ll get better.

    After contributing to my VP’s annual bonus (he saved money by reducing expenses!), I was out of work for 13 months. Even though I only managed to scrape up 20hrs/month freelancing, I still made “too much” to qualify for any public assistance.

    Speaking of beans (heh), it didn’t take long to figure out that a sack of beans would keep me fed for only pennies a day. Now that I’m drawing a paycheck again, I’m still eating beans and saving, saving $$$ like a little squirrel.

  176. 176
    Inaji

    Pteryxx, I’m really sorry to do this, but bad news – the runt is *gone*. Not even a spec left.

  177. 177
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.
    Sorry.

    Stop that right now. You’re going to be punished – go get a beer this second and drink it.

    Damnit. I do apologize too much.

    Sorry ’bout that.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn!

  178. 178
    Pteryxx

    Caine: well… Esme’s definitely a very attentive and thorough mother. (eww) Thanks again.

  179. 179
    irisvanderpluym

    Sorry, Ing. I planned to write more but I got distracted (by a kitteh) and in my haste I just hit “Submit comment.”

    David Thorne’s web site works better for me than antidepressants ever did, and I thought maybe you could use a good belly laugh (or ten). The humor is quirky, and though he can be a bit cringe-inducing on occasion, he never fails to send me uncontrollable giggle fits no matter how crappy I’m feeling.

    He’s a world class smartass (like you! And I mean that as the highest of compliments). Hope you enjoy.

  180. 180
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    The comfort meal here at Casa La Redhead is hot dogs, Kraft Mac & Cheese, and canned tomatoes. Quick and easy enough even I can fix it. Personally, I can skip the hot dogs and tomatoes. The other stand-bys are chicken noodle soup and oatmeal.

  181. 181
    Ing

    Also FFS brain dead redneck neighbors it’s only the 3rd. You can’t wait another day before you lose a finger and/or/hopefully your scrotes?

  182. 182
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    A.R. wrote:

    It looks like the slimepit is going to have to leave Sb. (I would link, but I don’t think anyone wants slimepit links here.)

    Can you elaborate? I don’t want to add even one page hit.

  183. 183
    Inaji

    RahXephon:

    Sometimes it sucks being that guy who seems to be saying “hey, I wanna hear what the doucherocket has to say!” lol

    Hey, if Brownian can do it, so can you! :D

    Markita Lynda:

    A month of night sweats! I’ve been having hot flashes for fifteen years and my friend for ten and she knows someone who is going on for twenty. You were lucky.

    Yikes. I wouldn’t deal well with that at all. I wonder if going through it so young made a difference.

  184. 184
    irisvanderpluym

    Growing up, my neighbor Mrs. Kelly made the best baked beans EVAR: baked in a casserole dish with bacon strips on top. My mom has her recipe and has made the dish on occasion, but they are never as good as I remember Mrs. Kelly’s.

  185. 185
    A. R

    Wowbagger: From what I gather, Nat Geo doesn’t like it, and Abbie wants to keep a blog on SB, so the slimepit is looking for a new home.

  186. 186
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    Caine: well… Esme’s definitely a very attentive and thorough mother. (eww) Thanks again.

    So it would seem. She’s very upset with me for momentarily removing the ratlets en box so I could look. I gave her a chocolate chip cookie. The rest of the ratlets are looking very healthy indeed, full bellies and sleepy squeaks.

  187. 187
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie:

    Sorry ’bout that.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn!

    *counts*

    That’s a lot of beers! You better get crackin’, mister!

    Ing:

    Also FFS brain dead redneck neighbors it’s only the 3rd.

    We’ve been dealing with that shit (some professional, most not) since last Friday. *sigh*

  188. 188
    Inaji

    From what I gather, Nat Geo doesn’t like it, and Abbie wants to keep a blog on SB, so the slimepit is looking for a new home.

    When did all this happen? It was around two weeks or so ago that they were crowing about NatGeo not giving a shit about the slimepit.

  189. 189
    marilove

    rowanvt
    3 July 2012 at 7:52 pm

    @151 Marilove-

    Not faaaaaaair. ;_; I must have annoyed the Uterine Faerie at some point.

    I know I’m lucky! :)

    I started my period when I was 11. Around 16 it just STOPPED, and until I was 19 I only had a period every like, six months and it was insanely heavy. Then it started again and has been pretty regular ever since, getting more and more so as I age. I suspect the 3 years it stopped was due to stress and depression (I hated my home town a lot), more than anything else. It was very strange, though!

  190. 190
    Inaji

    Audley:

    We’ve been dealing with that shit (some professional, most not) since last Friday. *sigh*

    Two fucking weeks here. And it will continue for about two fucking weeks after the 4th too. I *hate* fireworks.

  191. 191
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    A.R. wrote:

    Wowbagger: From what I gather, Nat Geo doesn’t like it, and Abbie wants to keep a blog on SB, so the slimepit is looking for a new home.

    Oh, okay. I think that’s been floating around for a while; I thought there had been some more recent developments.

    But wouldn’t it be a shame if no-one wanted them?

  192. 192
    marilove

    Caine, Fleur du mal
    3 July 2012 at 8:08 pm

    Marilove:
    On the ‘net, Ing prefers to remain genderless. Gender neutral. Unstated. You get the idear.

    Thank you, Caine. It’s a really bad habit of mine. I didn’t even realize I did that! I will try to remember this. I wish there was a way to note stuff about individual people because I have a terrible memory.:P

  193. 193
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    That’s a lot of beers! You better get crackin’, mister!

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Damn.

    Sorry.

    Sdamns.

    Sorrry.

    Hic.

    Damnb

    Sorahd

    Hic.

    damnadf;

    sorohg

    damna

    soadsfh; a;hfl

    G’night.

  194. 194
    frogkisser

    Pteryxx
    Now I’m getting misty. I’m just want you to know what you do is effective and appreciated.

    BEANS
    I am a HUGE fan of navy beans and ham. (For vegetarians, substitute smoked tofu for the ham and you’ll get something that nearly approximates my recipe.)
    Soak 2 cups of navy beans over night. Discard the soaking water and rinse the beans. Cover the beans in vegetable stock and bring to a boil. Add a roasted ham bone (or smoked tofu), 1 coarsely chopped red onion, 1 coarsely chopped yellow onion, 1 bulb of crushed garlic (less if you are not such a fan of garlic), 1 cup of chopped celery, 1 cup of grated carrots, 1 bunch of chopped parsley, and a bay leaf. Bring to a rolling boil and boil for about 15 minutes. Reduce the heat and simmer on low heat for 2-3 hours. Add more vegetable stock as necessary to keep the beans covered by about an inch of liquid. Salt and pepper to taste.

  195. 195
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    MOAR BEERS!

  196. 196
    A. R

    Slimepit: It looks like they are actively seeking a new location though. In fact, about 1/8 of the slimepit’s activity consists of suggestions, plans etc. As for Nat Geo, I’m not sure, I’d have to do more investigation.

  197. 197
    A. R

    BTW Wowbagger are you the same Wowbagger who does ST-BC mods?

  198. 198
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *gives Audley some beer that contains alcohol engineered to not cross the placenta*

  199. 199
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I ;likesh ommegang dubbelelelelel. Rrrreally. I does.

    G’night, all. Back to work tomorrow (it being Monday tomorrow and all in my universe).

  200. 200
    Rowan vet-tech

    You know, it’s a little odd to take some trash to the dumpster… and then find an *enormous* jumping spider there. He was posing perfectly and I ran back upstairs to get my camera and got just one picture as he was scurrying away. A little research and he’s apparently a Florida native… and I’m in California. O_o

    I have named him Steve.

    http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8723/steve1.jpg

    @ 189, Marilove-

    I had some real stress for a while and got to enjoy a couple years of super wonky periods. No crampy doom… but “3 weeks between, no wait 5! Or maybe 4? How about 6? And let’s have this last 8 days long again… no, let’s try 3 days. Hmmmn… thinkin’ 5 might be better”.

    Me to uterus: Just PICK A SCHEDULE AND STICK TO IT! D:<

  201. 201
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Oggie, I haz a curiousy. What kinds of books do you write?

  202. 202
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    A.R wrote:

    Slimepit: It looks like they are actively seeking a new location though. In fact, about 1/8 of the slimepit’s activity consists of suggestions, plans etc. As for Nat Geo, I’m not sure, I’d have to do more investigation.

    But they’re all so popular and important, and it’s common knowledge everyone hates FtB; how can it possibly be difficult for them to find another home? People should be on their knees, begging to take them on.

    BTW Wowbagger are you the same Wowbagger who does ST-BC mods?

    Nope. IIRC there is at least one other Wowbagger out there, one who was (a few years back) on RDF; that may be the same one.

  203. 203
    ChasCPeterson

    check out this ‘pit post

    sacha
    July 3, 7:54 pm

    I’m afraid that if you want a kinder, gentler slimepit, you should create one. Many of us would contribute there, and those who are with us when it comes to FfTB but feel uncomfortable with the slimepit association, can join us there.

    The *only* reason to turn down the tone, mind the language, and mute the memes is Abbie’s personal and professional life.

    These threads are something very rare. Full freedom of speech, no censoring, no tone trolls, and it has certainly gotten raunchy. but the majority of posters here are quite intelligent and articulate. Where else would you find that combination?

    Abbie’s slimepit is brilliant. From what she has said to me, and from things she has written, if her hand was not forced, she would not have changed a thing.

    Not only has Abbie provided us a fantastic venue, she took an extroidinary amount of abuse to keep it going.
    She put her personal life and career in jeopardy because she believes in what the pit represents.

    We owe her far more that abiding by the Nat Geo code of conduct just until we secure a new venue that no longer puts Abbie in jeopardy. I did not see anyone making it clear, and many were confused and irritated. Everyone complicated the bottom line. Abbie needs us to protect her instead of the other way around for once. She needs to disengage herself before the bullies find a way to destroy her. She was able to keep them away for a very long time. Now it is time that someone else carried that torch. Someone who has far less to lose.

    I think it would be insulting to Abbie after all she has done to ensure this place stays true to what is important to her (and most of us) to suddenly make it a different sort of place, now that she can no longer fight the fight.
    I want to erect a big statue of Abbie and Arnie right in the entrance to the threads, so no one could possibly miss it.
    Abbie is my hero. she has had to deal with far worse than anyone should ever have to, let alone in 2012 when her main fight was for free speech.

    The only way to properly give the respect she deserves, is to continue the slimepit exactly the way she wanted it.
    She risked a hell of a lot to give us this, and she is struggling with her decision to step away. The slimepit must not end with Abbie stepping down. It must be preserved out of respect for her, but also because it was one of a kind.

    These threads were more powerful than anyone ever imagined they would be. It began as a very small minority voicing their frustration and anger about the behaviour of certain people who had the audiacity to say they were speaking for our community.

    No one believed what we were saying about PeeZus, he was well respected then. Most of the people I knew who thought that Rebecca Watson was the worst choice ever for the SGU and to represent the women in skepticism. spoke of it quietly. She was getting marriage proposals left and right back then, and a large group of other skeptics praising her.
    I heard her sexism on the very first SGU she co-hosted, but at that time, unless I was in the mood to haves long drawn out discussion with audio clips, copies of things she has written, videos she has made along with a ton of energy, I would simply say I disagree.
    Greta was respected when this thread began.
    and many others that we lifted the curtain on.

    It was Abbie that made this happen.
    look how many people are coming out in support of our position on FfTB now.
    we had a big influence on that.
    It really did not matter what our reputation was, we fought the baboons and won. If we were not reviled, we would not have become so infamous.
    Kinder, gentler blog comments are a dime a dozen.
    and easily forgotten.
    Please protect Abbie by reading the Nat Geo code of conduct, and abiding by it, until everything is in place.

    I know that it was not clear as to what was being asked and by whom, which is why I went directly to Abbie to ask.

    Justi if you had just pointed to the code of contact instead of being so vague, and if you had clearly articulated that even Abbie does not want this place to change, and the minding of our vocabulary was a very temporary request in order to protect Abbie, I doubt a single person would have had any issue with that whatsoever.
    You would not have had to get angry, frustrated, lecture and write in all caps. had you been clear from the beginning.
    Also there are commenters here who would never take orders from Justi. He was not the best person to relay this request, and it did seem as though the decision to tame ourselves was not only coming straight from Justi, but the request was so vague at first, no one knew what was complying.

    This is in no way a reflection on Abbie. She has enough to deal with, and as I said she is struggling with this decision.

    Please give her the feedback she deserves. They did not win in the end, she did not sacrifice her values by making the decision to give up her throne, but still participate.

    Also. she is concerned for the next person to take over the responsibility. She does not feel comfortable putting this on anyone else. so again she is more concerned about others than herself.

    Let her know just how much we respect and appreciate her, and include examples of how she made a significant difference by risking it all.

    Abbie is my hero

  204. 204
    chigau (違う)

    Menopause made me happy.
    I had hot flashes for a while but they were easy to ignore.
    Food does not comfort me.
    This satellite internet is weak so mostly I’m just reading.

  205. 205
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    …I just punched “esteleth” into google, and got FTB and a few other places I use that nym.

    I also got a rather…interesting…deviantart page. ಠ_ಠ

  206. 206
    A. R

    Hmm, looks like Abbie is having reservations about the ‘pit.

  207. 207
    Inaji

    Slimepit: It looks like they are actively seeking a new location though. In fact, about 1/8 of the slimepit’s activity consists of suggestions, plans etc.

    One of them set up a site/blog to moan and whine about Pharyngula specifically and that was done quite a while back. Why don’t they just go there? Oh, not that I really give a shit, I wish they’d all fall off the net.

    rowanvt, Steve is gorgeous! Back in my teens, I discovered a gorgeous pink orb weaver that belonged on the East Coast, I was in SoCal. I loved that spider.

  208. 208
    Rowan vet-tech

    @ Esteleth, #205-

    I also got a rather…interesting…deviantart page. ಠ_ಠ

    Oh this I *have* to see now!

    *views*

    Awww… I was expecting MLP or furries or nekkeds. The photos are actually quite nice.

  209. 209
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    RowanVT said:

    “I would miss school the first two days of it because I was in the bathroom vomiting from the pain. The pain from my appendicitis was nowhere near as bad as my cramps.”

    This is what people don’t get. I was lucky, but for women who get bad cramps the pain is like heart attack pain.

  210. 210
    Amblebury

    – a lot of people pop in and out, and it turns out they are utterly ignorant of the history behind a certain topic or persons, etc., which makes things look unreasonable to them, and makes them seem like total idiots to us.

    ^That, times a billionty. I’m one of the in-and-outers, and learned (mostly) to keep my trap shut until I was better informed. Even then I try to be careful. It doesn’t always succeed, a couple of times I’ve been thoughtless, someone’s pointed it out, I accept their criticism and apologise – back to business as usual.

    Also, only when there’s an individual that really creeps me out, and I just cannot let it slide – Karlvonmarx would be an example of that – do I get vehement in my approach.

    Here’s something that happened yesterday, as a result of my experience with Pharyngula. There’s been a murder trial here, Scott Guy. One of those grip-the-nation trials. Also sad and awful, as are all murder trials. The suspect being tried was said to be in conflict with the victim regarding inheritance of and responsibility for the family farm. One of my workmates tried the, “I’ll bet his wife put him up to it, you know what women are like” line. I upbraided her for buying into the idea that females are inherently evil. It was a pin-drop moment, as in, “Whoa, you’ve got a point there and you’re right.”

    (The attitude’s awfulness is compounded by the fact that the wife in question is the victim’s sister.)

    Only because I’ve observed Pharyngulites articulating their standpoints with such conviction did I have the courage to do that. Hell, I didn’t even think about it, I just said it.

    Caine, I’m following rattlings with avid interest :)

  211. 211
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    rowanvt,
    Yes, they’re nice in their own way. Just, like, completely not-me.

    Also the thing about how Deviantart!Esteleth uses Win7. ಠ_ಠ

  212. 212
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Maybe I’m too possessive of the Esteleth handle.

    Dunno. Apparently it is also used by some guys (?! -eth is a feminine suffix in Sindarin?!) on WoW.

  213. 213
    Jessa

    For those of you who like the convenience of canned beans but the cost-effectiveness of dried beans, see this post.

    I’ve tried it, and it works pretty well. If you have a slow-cooker and adequate freezer space, it’s a good alternative.

  214. 214
    Rowan vet-tech

    *squints* I just looked up my username here… and apparently there is someone on twitter with the same nym. And they’re entirely incoherent. Makes me sadded.

  215. 215
    marilove

    When I search my username, one of the results is my one post on Skepchick. I am okay with that! :D

  216. 216
    Tethys

    menses: I was always very regular though the cycle ranged from 28 to 30 days throughout my reproductive years.(It changed between each of my three pregnancies) Cramping and pain were bad until I had my first child. After that the worst part was the horrendous migraine that preceded my period.

    I think that information on perimenopause in particular, and menopause in general is something that should be taught along with the information on menstruation.

    Menopause itself is rather nice, but nobody ever told me that perimenopause is fucking awful. I am not fortunate enough to have health insurance, and I do not tolerate synthetic hormones at all, so after much research on the subject here is what I found to be helpful. YMMV.

    Heavy bleeding- Vitaman A in beta carotene form 14,000 IU daily
    for two weeks stopped this completely.
    Hot-flashes night sweats- This was the worst part for me as it made getting a good nights sleep impossible. This led to extreme crankiness. Flax Seed Oil capsules helped a lot.

    ——-

    Pharyngula’s tone

    As a middle aged female, I have a bellyful of repressed anger over sexism in our society. This is the first place I have ever encountered where I do not have to be diplomatic when some douchebiscuit says something stupid. I do not have to worry about being branded a bitch, being shouted down, or being assaulted.

    The fact that the horde and PZ will actually have my back, rather than punish me for not being a nice person to assholes is entirely novel in my experience.

  217. 217
    frogkisser

    re: nasty menstrual cramps

    My gynecologist recommended a uterine ablation for me in the hopes it would reduce both the (new to me) debilitating cramps and the bleeding that was causing fatigue and anemia.

    My thoughts on the procedure (YMMV)
    1. For the bleeding and side effects, it was effective. I now only spot for about 3 days and I don’t faint, which made the procedure worth it for me.
    2. It did nothing for the cramps. My gynecologist says it does reduce cramps for some women.
    3. My recovery time was about 5 days.
    4. It was incredibly expensive, even with really good insurance. A lot of money for a maybe.

  218. 218
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    @frogkisser I may have to try the tofu version of that recipe, thank!

    @rowanvt OOh, Steve is gorgeous!

    @Chas Wow. “Praise be upon Abbie, the One True God! For she hath given us the strength of our convictions, and the grand freedom to carry out Her Will in opposing the blaspheming followers of the false prophet PeeZus! All Glory to the Slimepit! All Glory to Abbie Smith!”

  219. 219
  220. 220
    Rowan vet-tech

    Thanks guys. I’m sure that if Steve wasn’t hiding behind the dumpster, he’d be pleased by the compliments.

  221. 221
    Inaji

    Chas, quoting:

    They did not win in the end, she did not sacrifice her values by making the decision to give up her throne, but still participate.

    Also. she is concerned for the next person to take over the responsibility. She does not feel comfortable putting this on anyone else. so again she is more concerned about others than herself.

    Let her know just how much we respect and appreciate her, and include examples of how she made a significant difference by risking it all.

    Abbie is my hero

    Ummm…okay. Is ‘Justi’ Justicar?

  222. 222
    dianne

    Caine: The ratlets are so CUTE! Belated congratulations!

  223. 223
    rorschach

    @ 203,

    wow, just wow.

  224. 224
    Ing

    They did not win in the end, she did not sacrifice her values by making the decision to give up her throne, but still participate.

    Also. she is concerned for the next person to take over the responsibility. She does not feel comfortable putting this on anyone else. so again she is more concerned about others than herself.

    Let her know just how much we respect and appreciate her, and include examples of how she made a significant difference by risking it all.

    Abbie is my hero

    Jesus fuck it’s hard not to assume that’s taking the piss out of them

  225. 225
    ImaginesABeach

    If it is any comfort or hope for you youngsters who plan to reproduce, my periods sucked until after I had GirlChild, even had migraines. After I used my uterus, it got better. No cramps, no migraines and regular.

  226. 226
    Ing

    Also are there lots of people actually supporting the slimepit on this?

    If So I will have to formerally resign all posts and go join a UU church because fuckallyouassholes.

  227. 227
    Inaji

    Rowanvt:

    *squints* I just looked up my username here… and apparently there is someone on twitter with the same nym. And they’re entirely incoherent. Makes me sadded.

    Oh, just be happy that one of the first hits on your nym isn’t “Caine, Fleur du mal is a Liar and Hypocrite”, a post by the slimepit’s own Justicar.

    I’m sure there’s even more by now, I stopped looking last year.

  228. 228
    Ing

    Well Caine, you did laugh at a rape joke once

  229. 229
    Inaji

    Dianne:

    The ratlets are so CUTE! Belated congratulations!

    Thank you! It’s all stressful, but kind of fun too. Set up an appointment for Esme to be spayed on August 6th today. Can’t get here soon enough. :D

  230. 230
    Inaji

    Ing:

    Well Caine, you did laugh at a rape joke once

    I think that was Sally, not me. My crimes are numerous though, according to High Priestess Abbie and the pits.

  231. 231
    Ing

    @Caine

    It doesn’t matter…we all fall short of the glory of Abbie

    Sniffle…Abbie is my hero

    ——————————————————-

    Seriously if anyone starts gushing like that over PZ can we make it policy to just kick them in the teeth?

  232. 232
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    One of our local tea crackers made the national news again. Sigh. Merrimack is a special town. It’s also the home of Nancy Elliott.

    My neighbors have been shooting off fireworks for days now. It’s not only around the Fourth of July, either. Any holiday during warm or even mild weather will do. Annoying, but not as much as all the yappy dogs, or this one kid whose “playful” shrieks could cut through steel, and those go on all year round.

    Esteleth, I took Oggie to mean he is selling secondhand books on Amazon.

  233. 233
    Rowan vet-tech

    @227, Caine-

    Ouchies. Yes, quite glad indeed. I guess I should be glad that I never ended up with an encyclopedia dramatica entry during my otherkin years.

  234. 234
    dianne

    Is anyone else feeling a bit sorry for Abbie at this point? Being known as the keeper of the slimepit can’t be good for her career.

  235. 235
    Ing

    “One time when I was on fire; Abbie pissed on me. Sniffle….Abbie Smith is my hero”

    We need to meme this! Everyone share your “abbie is my hero” stories!

  236. 236
    Jessa

    If anyone’s wondering where some of the regulars are, they’re having fun on Twitter.

  237. 237
    Inaji

    Amblebury:

    Hell, I didn’t even think about it, I just said it.

    YAY! Good for you.

  238. 238
    dianne

    Seriously if anyone starts gushing like that over PZ can we make it policy to just kick them in the teeth?

    I suggest instant disemvoweling for anyone who gushes over the chief poopyhead.

  239. 239
    Ing

    Is anyone else feeling a bit sorry for Abbie at this point? Being known as the keeper of the slimepit can’t be good for her career.

    She sacrificed her career for free speech, Dianne! Sniffle…Abbie Smith is my hero!

    In all seriousness; not even slightly.

  240. 240
    Ing

    Abbie Smith once saved a puppy that wandered onto the freeway, and then threw it back onto the freeway in front of a bus because she knew the puppy would be the next Hitler. Abbie Smith is my hero

  241. 241
    Pteryxx

    Also are there lots of people actually supporting the slimepit on this?

    I admit I honestly attempted to read that post in good faith. I can’t do it, knowing the uses to which they choose to put their vaunted freedom of speech. It’s painful to try. I’m sure they sincerely value the ability to shit on other people en masse and it’s an emotional blow to lose it; most predators feel that way.

    Fortunately there’s twitter.

    masalaskeptic ‏@masalaskeptic

    The #FTBullies are preventing George RR Martin from finishing the series.


    Sasha Pixlee ‏@sashapixlee

    @szvan suggested a book to me once. It was super good but the sequel isn’t even finished yet! #FTBullies.


    Ophelia Benson ‏@OpheliaBenson

    Baby turtles are bullies. #FTBullies


    Rebecca Watson ‏@rebeccawatson:

    Lots of talk on Twitter about how bad the #FTBullies are. I don’t want to pile on, but: they wrote Prometheus.

    PZ Myers ‏@pzmyers

    It was consensual. RT @Nezchan: Breaking! #FTBullies bit Thunderf00t on the leg!

  242. 242
    ronsullivan

    Ogvorbis is back! YAYYYYYY!

    And you have a book? How did I miss that? How can I get one? (email is ron at faultline dot org)

    Damn, the joint is jumpin. Elebentyteen comments while I was logging on.

    Here’s what I got by way of official sex education. No shit.

    I had a fairly smooth menopause, which I figure is compensation for what I went through at menarche. I suppose I Offered It Up.

  243. 243
    Ing

    has anyone done FFbullies killed Kenny #youbastards yet?

  244. 244
    Inaji

    Daisy:

    this one kid whose “playful” shrieks could cut through steel, and those go on all year round.

    Oh gods, there are several of those here, they tend to play right across the back road. Sets every cell on fire.

    Dianne:

    Being known as the keeper of the slimepit can’t be good for her career.

    Going by that one post, it would seem that Abbie is upset about having to relinquish the slimepit. I know that previously, she had posted proudly about keeping the slimepit in spite of NatGeo and was up in arms about the supposed email of complaint someone sent them. As long as she sees herself as some sort of freedom fighter, no, I don’t feel sorry for her.

    Ing:

    We need to meme this! Everyone share your “abbie is my hero” stories!

    I’ll pass. I’m sorry, I just don’t have the stomach for it. The one thing which has bothered me the most about the slimepit is that they think their sleaziness and toxicity is something wonderful, that they are the ones who are changing society to the right direction, etc. I’ll leave the crappy memes and daily toxicity, a la baboons, to them.

  245. 245
    dianne

    One of our local tea crackers made the national news again. Sigh.

    What a weirdo. Why colon cancer? Colon cancer isn’t even fatal most of the time. Especially in a well insured Supreme Court justice who gets regular screening colonoscopies and prompt attention to changes in bowel habits.

  246. 246
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    Fortunately there’s twitter.

    I see John Welch*, one of the pits, has joined the fun.

    *He’s the one who was bragging about his wife breaking another woman with the abortion joke.

  247. 247
    frogkisser

    dysomniak, darwinian socialist
    My completely vegan (and vegan taste-tested) chilli recipe…

    Cover 1 cup black beans, 1 cup red beans or kidney beans, and 1/2 cup hominy in water and soak over night. Discard (you don’t have to pour it down the drain; it’s great for the garden) the soaking water and rinse the beans and hominy. Cover the beans and hominy in water (again) and warm on a low simmer (a little to warm for your fingers to be comfortable in the water but not enough to burn).

    While the beans are simmering, broil 2-3 jalapeno peppers, 2-3 bell peppers sliced in half, 1 sliced vidalia sweet onion, 1 sliced hot yellow onion, 7-10 roma tomatoes (sliced in half), and as much garlic as you want (I use a whole bulb) – depends on your oven, for mine about 7 minutes at 350 degrees F. Strip and discard blackened skins. Coarsely chop what remains and add it to the simmering beans.

    Bring the beans and their entourage to a rolling boil and keep it there for about 15 minutes. Reduce the heat to a simmer.

    Add 1/4-1/2 tsp of ground, dried chipotle (or similar) and 1/4-1/2 tsp of freshly ground black pepper. Add 1 small can of tomato paste (or one jar of dehydrated tomatoes and the oil they were preserve in – so good, but adds significantly to the price of the pot). Simmer for 1/2-1 hour.

    Add 1/4-1/2 tsp of ground coriander and 1/2-1 tsp ground cumin. Continue to simmer and stir every 5-10 minutes for 2-3 hours. Add vegetable broth as necessary to keep it from turning into a wall-paper-paste nightmare.

    Garnish with fresh cilantro (unless you have a super-taster in your midst) and blue corn tortilla chips.

    Note #1: You can make it hotter by using or adding scotch bonnets or serrano peppers and you can tone it down by using pablano peppers instead.

    Note #2: I’ve tried making this recipe with seitan added, to simulate chorizo. The reviews were mixed, and even the people who didn’t find the seitan objectionable liked the “no fake meat” version better. I think there is something about the wheat-meat that mutes the flavors.

  248. 248
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Ruth Ginsberg has been treated for colon cancer.

  249. 249
    Jessa

    Ing:

    3 July 2012 at 9:43 pm

    has anyone done FFbullies killed Kenny #youbastards yet?

    They have now. :-)

  250. 250
    dianne

    Ruth Ginsberg has been treated for colon cancer.

    Ah. That would be why that came to the teanut’s mind. I note that she was treated in 1999. Also that she had pancreatic cancer later on. Now there’s a deadly disease for you…but Ginsburg survived. Probably due at least in part to her excellent medical insurance. Perhaps that influenced her decision, knowing that others in her situation might not survive simply because they could not afford immediate treatment for their problems.

  251. 251
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    @frogkisser Thanks! I don’t usually see a lot of vegan friendly recipes on here.

  252. 252
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Speaking of recipes, does anyone know what the heck to do with swordfish? Swordfish steaks were super cheap at the store for some reason (where I’d never even seen them before). I bought it just because of the price and oh god I have no clue how to cook it *flails arms in panic*

  253. 253
  254. 254
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Ordinarily I’d be hanging off my seat over Higgs boson stuff, but I’m having too, too much fun at #FTBullies on Twitter.

  255. 255
    Inaji

    Josh, you might want to check out #203.

  256. 256
    ibyea

    @RahXephon
    err… Just fry it? ^_^

  257. 257
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Caine- wait, what? What is #203 on about?

  258. 258
    frogkisser

    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement’s Hospital

    If the steaks are not boned, you need to get them boned (I am no help on making this happen. My son, through no influence of mine, has learned to bone fish, so it just magically happens for me.)

    My best advice for cooking the swordfish steaks is, if you have access to a grill, kiss both sides for less than 30 seconds then serve with greens and a savory starch.

    If grilling is not an option, marinate your swordfish steaks in butter milk for a couple of hours then cover with bread crumbs and pan fry. Put the pan fried sword fish steaks in a low oven (200 degrees F or even lower) and use the remaindered grease to make a thin gravy (1/4-1/2 tsp of flour browned to a blonde rue and then thinned with either vegetable or fish stock). Salt with either soy sauce or miso paste and heat with either wasabi paste or fresh grated radishes. Pour the gravy over the breaded fish as you bring it to table. A spicy salad is a good counter point.

  259. 259
    ibyea

    Okay, I am dreading tomorrow. Tomorrow, being 4th of July, will mean that a gazillion people will come to buy crabs at my parents’ store. Urgh, I feel like having a heart attack.

  260. 260
    Inaji

    Josh:

    Caine- wait, what? What is #203 on about?

    Chas copy/pasted it from the slimepit – NatGeo came down on Abbie for the slimepit and she doesn’t want to leave sciblogs, so they are looking for a new home.

  261. 261
    ImaginesABeach

    Is there no question that could be asked on TET and not get an answer from someone who actually knows the answer?

    14 minutes from question to answer on swordfish steaks.

  262. 262
    ImaginesABeach

    It will be interesting to see what happens with their new special site. It looks like they are hoping to have 2 sites, one at SB that they keep civil and one elsewhere.

  263. 263
    Jessa

    Ing: I didn’t know that you had a Twitter account. I wouldn’t have posted your suggestion if I had known that. I feel bad now.

  264. 264
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Thanks Caine. Cue the screeches of agony. Good lord, what a melodramatic load of bathos in #203.

  265. 265
    frogkisser

    2 repost warning..
    rogkisser
    3 July 2012 at 8:27 pm

    I would like to speak directly to why I think the “don’t touch without permission” part of anti-harassment policies is so important. (And why I get into an absolute twist when I hear arguments like Loftus’ made against it.)

    I am short and female. I go to conventions for work. Well-meaning gentlemen frequently try to help guide me through crowds by putting a hand on my shoulder or elbow. They’re decent fellows who are trying to do something nice. What they don’t know, can’t know without asking, is that about the 4th or 5th time a stranger touches me, I start to feel like I’m being groped and my mild germaphobia kicks in and I want to go bathe in a 10% bleach solution. The more empathetic of these fellows have noticed my revulsion, asked what is wrong, and then demonstrated they feel like utter cads for putting me in that position. Asking before “helping” would prevent both their discomfort and mine and would result in a more pleasant convention experience for both them and me.

  266. 266
    Inaji

    ImaginesABeach:

    It looks like they are hoping to have 2 sites, one at SB that they keep civil and one elsewhere.

    They don’t qualify for a blog at NG/Sciblogs, so they must be talking about staying with ERV and pretending to be nicey-nice, while dishing the shit elsewhere.

  267. 267
    PZ Myers

    #203: That was nauseating. Has that person been drinking, to produce such maudlin tripe?

    Wait, I thought this was the place that was the enemy of True Atheism, where Lord Peezus was worshipped as a god by a swarm of slavish flying monkeys? Or was that just a dream I had?

  268. 268
    frogkisser

    2nd repost warning
    frogkisser
    3 July 2012 at 10:13 pm

    Not really relevant to what is being discussed in the thread now, but (I think, correct me if I’m wrong) relevant to the OP.

    The experience with guys who ask before they touch has been, for me, completely positive. Usually the conversation goes something like “you need some help getting through the crowd” and “nope, I’m alright” and “cool, let me know if that changes”. That’s most men and that’s why I like and trust most men.

    Now for best guy… this huge, MOUNTAIN of a man (I dunno, I’m 5’2″, he was MUCH bigger than my ex-husband who is 6’3″ and about 275 lbs)… he recognized I was getting swallowed and buffeted by the crowd. We had two verbal interactions. One, he said, “follow in my wake and I’ll get you out of this”. Two, when we are on the side lines, he said “you OK, little sister?”. I said I was and he disappeared back into the crowd. I think he’s someone I would have enjoyed having a longer conversation with, and I respect that wasn’t what he was about.

  269. 269
    Inaji

    Josh:

    Cue the screeches of agony. Good lord, what a melodramatic load of bathos in #203.

    Do you suppose it will ever sink in that Abbie doesn’t love them enough to give up the cred of having a blog at NG?

  270. 270
    PZ Myers

    Maybe we should offer them a blog at FtB?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I slay myself sometimes.

  271. 271
    Inaji

    PZ:

    Wait, I thought this was the place that was the enemy of True Atheism, where Lord Peezus was worshipped as a god by a swarm of slavish flying monkeys? Or was that just a dream I had?

    Oh, you were dreaming, dear Overlord. I had a thought. As much as they love to revile St. Peezus, do you suppose they want to imitate what you and Ed did in creating FTB? Oh, the irony would be too much.

  272. 272
    Inaji

    Maybe we should offer them a blog at FtB?

    A gift from the devil? Oh, it would be fun to hear the response. Hahahahahaha.

  273. 273
    Ing

    Maybe we should offer them a blog at FtB?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I slay myself sometimes.

    Except didn’t you just do that (TFoot)?

  274. 274
    Ing

    Abbie Smith is their hero…I wait for PZ to fuck up and then scrape the wounds with sandpaper.

  275. 275
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oh also? Some bastard stole my new bike last night right off my back porch. And didn’t I immediately scold myself for forgetting to lock it up (grrrrr). My homeowner’s insurance deductible is higher than the value of the bike (grrrr) and I know the cops have better things to do than look for it. Hell, they couldn’t even take my report without rolling their eyes when I couldn’t immediately tell them the serial number and tire diameter. Assholes.

    So yeah. If you see anyone riding around on my bike, call me. I will cut them.

  276. 276
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    @PZ

    I think doing so would activate both sides of the circuit between their two narratives: they want to be at FTB to “inject some REAL freethought” vs. “FTB is an unsalvagable mess unworthy of our brilliance”. Then the fuse would blow.

  277. 277
    Ing

    Offer them a blog, if they accept deny them. Justify it as freespeech.

  278. 278
    Inaji

    Oh Josh, I’m sorry about your bike. :(

  279. 279
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Caine #260:

    NatGeo came down on Abbie for the slimepit

    Seriously?!

    Perhaps we should have a designated Social Justice 101 thread. That way we can keep people from being annoyed by 101-level questions while not causing splash damage to the honestly clueless.

  280. 280
    Inaji

    Ing:

    Offer them a blog, if they accept deny them. Justify it as freespeech.

    Oh, would that ever ping the outrage meters!

  281. 281
    Inaji

    Setar:

    Seriously?!

    So I hear. Certainly seems to be the case going by the hero-worshiping post Chas quotes @203.

  282. 282
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oh Josh, I’m sorry about your bike. :(

    Thanks honey. I’ve reminded myself several times today how much better life is at 37 as a lower middle class Suburban White Lady than it was when I was 11 and my bike that I used for my paper route (family grocery money) was stolen on Christmas day. I can afford to replace the bike; it’s worth remembering about first-world problems.

    I try to tell myself that whoever stole it to strip and sell probably needed it more than I did, but you know what? Fuck those motherfuckers. Ballsy brazen douchebags coming right up on my goddamned porch.

  283. 283
    thunk: turmite city

    Bah, threadrupt.

    And hello from remote places.

  284. 284
    MissEla

    PZ needs one of these!

    (Hope the link works right…)

  285. 285
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Josh #282:

    I try to tell myself that whoever stole it to strip and sell probably needed it more than I did, but you know what? Fuck those motherfuckers. Ballsy brazen douchebags coming right up on my goddamned porch.

    My bike — and only my bike — was vandalised several times in high school: seat removed twice, air let out of (Presta valve, grrr) tire once, brakes disconnected once.

    No idea why it never happened to anyone else.

  286. 286
    Inaji

    Josh:

    Fuck those motherfuckers. Ballsy brazen douchebags coming right up on my goddamned porch.

    When I was in HS, my bike was stolen, from my fenced and gated backyard. I was seriously upset. Of course, I reported it to the cops, I had it licensed and all that shit. Nothing. Eventually, I forgot all about it, I had gotten another bike.

    About 6, 8 months after it was stolen, I headed to to the Santa Ana Library. As I was walking through the back parking lot, I decided to cut through the kid’s library. The kid library had a small courtyard and its own entrance. I enter the courtyard and what, to my absolute shock, see? My bike.

    Now the local cop shop was right next door to the library. I ducked into the kid’s library and asked the librarian to call the cops for me. I’m waiting anxiously in the courtyard. A cop wanders over, I explain, definitely identify my bike, all that. We’re having a chat while waiting for the asshole motherfucker who stole my bike to show up. About 10, 15 minutes later he did. Cop goes over and arrests the asshole motherfucker and I got my bike back.

    That was a seriously good damn day.

  287. 287
    carolw

    I swear I saw this film in fifth grade in 1980. The girl on the bike is too familiar.

  288. 288
    ibyea

    @Josh
    Getting things stolen, it sucks. The first reaction I had was denial, that it had to be somewhere else. But no, my Wii was stolen. Someone broke into my home just to steal my Wii. I was so mad. All my 100% completions, all gone.

  289. 289
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oooh, Caine, that was a good day!

    I remember Santa Ana. We used to fear its winds when we lived in Anaheim and Fullerton (which was fearful enough).

  290. 290
    A. R

    Slimepit: IIRC, they were talking about hosting the slimepit on a private password-access forum.

  291. 291
    The Mellow Monkey

    Sorry about your bike, Josh.

    Thieves fucking suck. After my house burned down, I replaced some of my things with my insurance money and some fuckhead then stole my brand new Wii, digital camera, and MP3 player. If I didn’t essentially keep my laptop and e-reader strapped to my body those would have been taken as well, I’m sure.

  292. 292
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    After my house burned down,

    OMG Caerie. NOTHING could suck as bad as that. I’m so sorry.

  293. 293
    Ing

    Slimepit: IIRC, they were talking about hosting the slimepit on a private password-access forum.

    FREESPEECH!

  294. 294
    Ing

    Seriously that would be just one more derp on their sundae of herp

  295. 295
    A. R

    Ing: Yeah, there were some objections, but a few of them were quite keen on it. Something about banning people who leaked conversations was mentioned.

  296. 296
    Inaji

    IIRC, they were talking about hosting the slimepit on a private password-access forum.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahaha. Hee. :thud:

    Oh my. As people who claim to be the *real* free thinkers and valiant defenders of free speech, they’re going to go password access? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That’s just too fucking rich, that is.

    Could you just imagine the screams and whines and complaints and upset if Pharyngula went that way?

  297. 297
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    A. R #290:

    Slimepit: IIRC, they were talking about hosting the slimepit on a private password-access forum.

    Er, that’s a bit of an own goal, since if they do that then every time they complain at one of us for “gendered insults” we can just shoot back that they’re probably hiding worse — and, in fact, we have plenty of reason to believe they are — behind their password protection.

  298. 298
    Oenotrian

    Audley:

    Hey, did you guys know that the great thing about being pregnant is not having periods for 9 months?

    Unfortunately, the uterus makes up for lost time as soon as the baby is born. You get 9 months’ worth of periods all at once.

    At 10 this morning, the temperature here was 50°F/10°C, and the “wind chill” was 41°F/5°C. In July. I’m really wishing we could split the difference with the rest of the U.S. right now. I’d dearly love to put my winter clothes away.

  299. 299
    Inaji

    Something about banning people who leaked conversations was mentioned.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
    Imma be laughing for days.

  300. 300
    A. R

    For your review, by Abbie:

    ERV
    June 26, 8:50 pm

    Okay. For a long time now, Ive personally been of the opinion that PZ Myers genuinely cares about women/women in science, but has just been around dipshits like Watson and Marcotte, and stupidly does whatever they ‘suggest’ under the misguided impression it is A Good Thing (and not cover for their dipshit behavior).

    PZ pressured me to talk about my ‘obstacles’ and ‘hardships’ or whatever in science ‘as a woman’ way back when we did that BloggingHeadsTV show (even after I told him I was uninterested, in fact, unable to speak on that topic due to complete lack of sexism I have experienced as a student scientist).

    PZ kept his mouth shut in a SciBlogs backchannel discussion from *years* ago on sexism, until the perps started attacking me (well, technically attacking my dog?) for calling out the witch hunters bullshittery.

    I think he has had a problem with women long before Shaftgate, so I didnt really give Schrodingers Affair much of a thought.

    But with Tonys latest– For fucks sake. That has nothing to do with PZ at all. In any capacity. But there he is, *mindlessly* backing up Watsons bad behavior AGAIN.

    WTF?

    So now Im looking back on it– PZ hinting he was going to ‘out’ others sexual sins (I might have done X… but HE DID Y!), the obsession with sex and touching at conferences, the subconscious sexualization of me (whom he probably viewed as Watson-esque, with The Slimepit) a la Ray-Im-Not-Gay-Comforts banana– How he defends Watson, right or wrong, apparently on *instinct* a la a guy defending his girl in the club, right or wrong… abandoning reason entirely.

    Something just doesnt smell right.

  301. 301
    A. R

    Damn, blockquote issue on the above. All below stamp is Abbie.

  302. 302
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Wow A. R, that is fucking rich. “Subconsious sexualization” BAAAAAHAAHAHAHAA!

  303. 303
    Inaji

    Goodness, Abbie is just dying for dirt on PZ, preferably an affair of some sort. Any sort!

    the subconscious sexualization of me

    I’m genuinely curious about this ^. I’d love to see examples, so I could judge for myself, rather than relying on Abbie’s word that of course PZ sexualized her, doesn’t everyone?!

  304. 304
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Comfort Food:
    I actually like the British baked beans for this. On toast, with sharp cheddar and HP sauce. Other items include: sausage inna bun(named meat only); rice pudding; tuna mornay pasta; vegemite toast with too much butter.

    Slimepit: HA-ha!

    TMI stuff:
    I’m approaching the end of perimenopause. I’ve had 3 periods so far this year; I keep hoping each is the last… They did for a while get much heavier and more painful, but also shorter and totally responsive to meds, so that was OK on the whole.

    My main problem was developing severe headaches, unresponsive to normal painkillers, which turned out to be migraines. I didn’t realise for quite some time that they were migraines, because I had no visual auras. Once it was diagnosed they tended to respond very well to (Zomig), so that was a relief. And they seem to have gone now – I haven’t had one in a full year now.

  305. 305
    Inaji

    But with Tonys latest– For fucks sake. That has nothing to do with PZ at all. In any capacity.

    I see Abbie’s comprehension skills have not improved. It had nothing to do with PZ? Oh, so that email from Tony’s friend wanting to know why Tony was blocked, that had nothing at all to do with PZ. Right.

  306. 306
    cicely

    I am 100% American but I have been known to enjoy baked beans on toast. SO GOOD. :P

    Surely they make the toast all *shudder* squashy?
    -
    Kidney beans and scrambled turkey burger in tomato sauce. *droooooool*
    -
    *hugs* and *industrial-strength chocolate* for Ms. Daisy Cutter. I got out of menopause altogether. My sister, on the other hand, is doing menopause the hard way, and envies me my Hysterectomy With All The Trimmings™ on that account.
    -
    Caine, I’m sorry to hear that the runt didn’t make it.
    :(
    I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for underdogsrats.
    -

    Okay, I am dreading tomorrow. Tomorrow, being 4th of July, will mean that a gazillion people will come to buy crabs at my parents’ store. Urgh, I feel like having a heart attack.

    ?????
    Getting crabs on the 4th of July is a Thing?
    -
    Josh, I’m sorry that someone ‘jacked your bike. *hugs* and *assorted cheeses*.
    -

  307. 307
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    Ah, yes, the old tactic: “I can’t attack your argument, so I’m instead going to try and say that you don’t/can’t really believe it.”

    I thought we could expect skeptical bloggers to know not only that ESP does not exist, but also that whether one believes and argument has no bearing on whether it is correct.

    How the mighty have fallen.

  308. 308
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for underdogsrats.

    Me too. The smallest one now is a little girl, and even though she’s smaller, she’s healthy, active and eating. She’ll be Magrat. I don’t have a clue who is going to be Gytha.

  309. 309
    A. R

    Here is the one of the private forums comments. I’ll look for the one Abbie made that this commentor referred to :

    Gurdur
    June 30, 6:14 pm

    bugger it millenium hand and shrimp. Can we have rthe argument without the bollocks? I..e if we want demonization of each other, we might as well post on FtB and have done with it.

    1) If NatGeo move against ERV’s blog, I will be be happy to host if out of my own pocket. No advertisments either. It would mean Abbie would not get any revenue for her blog, but at least she could write what she bloody well wants to – and so can commentators.

    2) Having said I for one am happy to put my money where my mouth is, and pay for total freedom of speech, back to the argument. Decius is only pointing out tactical issues. This whole fight will eventually only be settled by a wider public .- and writing for that wider public would often be a very good idea. The wider public often don’t know the history, and don’t want to.

    The counter-arguments against Decius’ position are a) principle and 2) practicality (in that in some ways it might not matter anyway). These are of course valid counter-arguments, but they don’t necessarily trump tactics and actually talking for a wider public.

    You all know by now, if you want to, where I stand. What I do see here is some of you marginalizing yourselves; for example, if you do not want to see yourself as part of a broad atheist movement, then exactly how much do you think you have to say to anyone who does?

    The self-control idea is a good one. It’s also exactly what I try to do, and nowadays, to simply stay out of fruitless arguments and to ignore flames. Mostly.

    3) Abbie brought up confidential forums. I can easily arrange that, it’s literally 10 minutes work for me, dunno though if it’s necessary. Here everything but everything is out in the open, which can be a good thing. But like I said, I can set up a private forum if really wanted.

    Gurdur
    June 30, 7:51 pm

    “…I’m also not quite sure of the practicality of keeping a private forum secure …

    On this, I’m an expert. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
    The admin needs to be utterly brutal and very fast; if any user clearly and consciously violates confidentiality, you have to ban them pronto and forever. It’s also wise to set up a holding area where unknown newbies stay for a while before getting into the really private areas.

    Since I run an atheist community board, and since members want somewhere where they can discuss things knowing their confidentiality will never be betrayed, that’s what I do too. OTOH, I find it as enjoyable as repeatedly sporking my eyes out; I really don’t like having to ban people and so on. I just do what has to be done.

    The offer was made because some sort of wish was expressed. I don’t think it’s really necessary;: email also exists. But I did make the offer, just in case. Whatever happens, also, ERV’s blog will be kept going; I know I am not the only one to offer to host and code.

    Given this and some other stuff, it looks like they might not be as hot on private forums as I originally thought. I’ll keep investigating.

  310. 310
    Inaji

    The self-control idea is a good one. It’s also exactly what I try to do, and nowadays, to simply stay out of fruitless arguments and to ignore flames. Mostly.

    This, coming from Gurdur, is hilarious. If you’re unfamiliar with him, well, you just won’t get it. He’s…known for his temper.

    So, HH is still running, eh? I imagine with not very many people, seeing as he has so much time on his hands. Heh.

  311. 311
    Rowan vet-tech

    The counter-arguments against Decius’ position are a) principle and 2) practicality (in that in some ways it might not matter anyway). These are of course valid counter-arguments, but they don’t necessarily trump tactics and actually talking for a wider public.

    Good to know that they think tactics are more important than principles! Wouldn’t want those ethics and things like honesty to get in the way of their fun. Why… that would almost be like a code of conduct. Complete killjoy.

  312. 312
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Getting crabs on the 4th of July is a Thing?

    Not if you shave! Wakka wakka!

  313. 313
    A. R

    One more gem from Abbie for your perusal tonight:

    ERV
    June 30, 11:47 pm

    Lsuoma– Damn, Abbie – you’ve got class.

    Not class. Its been something Ive been thinking about since I said that shit about McCreight, which was not even remotely classy on my part.

    McCreight and I arent BFFs, but we came to a *RESOLUTION* by actually speaking to one another like humans. If I had acted classy and asked her directly about NatGeo/my dept head, I wouldnt have said that shit. Im sick of the inflammatory rhetoric. We cant fix the witch hunts on their end, but we can stop it on our end.

  314. 314
    Inaji

    Cicely:

    Getting crabs on the 4th of July is a Thing?

    People head to the water for the 4th – beach, lake, river, what have you.

  315. 315
    Inaji

    Im sick of the inflammatory rhetoric.

    Amazing.

  316. 316
    A. R

    OK, so after spending more time in the slimepit than any human really should, I can definitively say that they want to create a new blog for the slimepit if NatGeo begins controlling content more rigorously There is significant disagreement as to how this will occur however. Abbie may want to disnance herself from the nastier elements of the slimepit, and wants to keep ERV at Sb.

  317. 317
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I don’t know which is better, ‘Care Bear Skeletor’ or ‘Skeletor Care Bear’…

    http://6dollarshirts.com/images/D/Action_Figure_Accident_T_SHIRT_detail.jpg

    ~~
    If there were a blasphemy scale (uh, is there one?) that went from 1 to 10, I wonder where this shirt would fall:
    http://6dollarshirts.com/product.php?productid=11411#detailed

    ~~
    I will never watch Star Wars the same again:
    http://6dollarshirts.com/product.php?productid=11424#detailed

    ~~

    Rah:
    For swordfish, try oven roasting/steaming.
    Preheat oven to 375.
    Fit aluminum foil inside a deep baking dish. Place the swordfish steaks inside, along with diced onions, minced garlic, thyme sprigs (whole), lemon slices and salt/pepper. Cover baking dish with foil. Place in oven for 15-20 minutes.
    You can even add your favorite veggies into the mix and cook everything together.

  318. 318
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Abbie may want to disnance herself from the nastier elements of the slimepit, and wants to keep ERV at Sb.

    Well, I never thought she was completely stupid.

  319. 319
    Inaji

    A.R, like everything slimepit connected, it’s all too fucking silly.

  320. 320
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ok, I saw Amazing Spider-Man.
    I liked it. Comparing it to the first Raimi film, I like it slightly better. I think I’m going to rewatch it.
    ~~

    Fixed my chili:
    sauteed paprika, rosemary and sage in olive oil; added ground turkey, sirloin and chicken until fully cooked (I like a bit of a char on meats-ground anything, bacon, chicken, the skin side of salmon-otherwise I would recommend cooking until the meat is *almost* done); then I added an 8 oz can of tomato paste, and an 8 oz can of tomato sauce. That all got mixed together and simmered. I cheated a bit with the ‘rice’. I saw that Publix had a precooked, preportioned rice, barley, oat, and quinoa mix. So the meat mixture was dumped atop the grain mix and that was topped with shredded jack/cheddar cheese. OMG. It was good.
    I had seconds.
    Then I had cake/ice cream.
    Then my belly hurt…

  321. 321
    A. R

    Caine: Yes, it is. I wonder if being forced from SciBlogs will inspire them to create an Anti-FTB?

  322. 322
    Inaji

    Oh, Abbie won’t leave NG unless she’s crowbarred out.

  323. 323
    A. R

    Caine: Yes, that is the impression I got from reading the slimepit. However, I wonder what the soon-to-be exiled slimepitters will do…

  324. 324
    Cipher

    As a middle aged female, I have a bellyful of repressed anger over sexism in our society. This is the first place I have ever encountered where I do not have to be diplomatic when some douchebiscuit says something stupid. I do not have to worry about being branded a bitch, being shouted down, or being assaulted.

    The fact that the horde and PZ will actually have my back, rather than punish me for not being a nice person to assholes is entirely novel in my experience.

    I’m not middle-aged yet, but other than that, completely seconded.

    I suggest instant disemvoweling for anyone who gushes over the chief poopyhead.

    But but but :( PZ IS MY HEEEEROOOO

    *He’s the one who was bragging about his wife breaking another woman with the abortion joke.

    I can think of very few faster ways to get me to flee a conversation shaking uncontrollably than for one participant to talk approvingly about “breaking” people.

    Maybe we should offer them a blog at FtB?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I slay myself sometimes.

    I’m mad at you!

    *hugs* Thanks again, Caine, for trying to remind me to stop beating up on myself for things I’m not in control of.

    My friend situation has not improved. I went to see Brave with my family, flipped the fuck out at a scene involving a bow (that’s super vague enough, right?), and have now resolved to remember that the fact that Pixar movies are generally aimed for a younger audience doesn’t necessarily mean I should be off my guard emotionally during them. Because I think that if I hadn’t been in children’s-movie mode, I would have just flinched at that scene and moved on. (After the emotional wreckage that resulted from me watching Toy Story 3 at a bad time, I really should have remembered that.) It’s a great movie, though. Love it. And hearing how hard my brother laughed at parts of it was really wonderful :) So that’s a plus. Also, I’m now playing Plants vs. Zombies. I got home and lost at least four hours and possibly more, because I zoned out playing it.

    Yay, Slimepit talk. Complete with quotes. Off to vomit.

  325. 325
    Cipher

    Sorry for the last line. I was going to delete it, but then I forgot to delete it. :(

  326. 326
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Josh:
    damn. Sorry your bike was stolen.

    ~~
    Setar:
    a feminism 101 style thread (or info dump page) could be handy.

    ~~

    Caine:
    did you keep the stolen bike and your newer one?

  327. 327
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Cipher wrote:

    Yay, Slimepit talk. Complete with quotes. Off to vomit.

    If if makes you feel any better, we’ve had a fun evening mocking the everloving shit out of them on Twitter using the #FTBullies tag.

  328. 328
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:

    This, coming from Gurdur, is hilarious. If you’re unfamiliar with him, well, you just won’t get it. He’s…known for his temper.

    So, HH is still running, eh? I imagine with not very many people, seeing as he has so much time on his hands. Heh.

    Not really related to the above but,
    I’ve often wondered how far back many of you folks go. When I hear one of you speak of the Science Blogs, it seems as if it’s been many years. Is there an origin of Pharyngula? Or is it eternal?

  329. 329
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    Is there an origin of Pharyngula? Or is it eternal?

    Well, you see, after a certain amount of time, the comments spread out so far only photons are left, and they don’t have any way of keeping time, they don’t have any mass. You need mass to make a clock, and a clock to measure the scale of the blog, so the blog loses track of how big it is, and this very expanded blog becomes the origin of the next…

    For reference, this is from Roger Penrose.

  330. 330
    A. R

    Tony: Pharyngula has no beginning and no end, only vast expanses of free space in which a comment may be occasionally encountered. In reality though, PZ started it independently, then it got picked up by SciBlogs, then it moved to FtB when PZ et al. founded the network. Some commenters have been here for close to a decade.

  331. 331
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    re : public service announcement about washing

    I realize that some people don’t have running water or time to wash between jobs or other good reasons, but I’m really pissed about those who have all the conveniences but don’t use them.

    Mainly, my own father. With whom I have to live. And I can’t even complain to anyone in meatspace because it’s too embarrassing. And a bit mind-blowing when he comments that one of his colleagues is filthy. Hello, some self-awareness please!

  332. 332
    Owlmirror

    [Re: Brave] flipped the fuck out at a scene involving a bow (that’s super vague enough, right?),

    Since there’s a scene with a bow in pretty much the entire movie, it certainly is. At first I wondered if you meant the contest scene shown in the trailer, but that couldn’t have been unexpected. But then it occurred to me that . . . Hm. Rot13?

    [spoiler (trigger?)]
    Qvq lbh zrna jura Zrevqn’f zbgure guebjf vg vagb gur sver?
    [/spoiler]

  333. 333
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    Cicely, you are quite correct about the danger of soggy toast. Which is why, if I order baked beans and toast at a cafe, I always specify that the toast should be on the side, not under the beans. At home, I don’t need to worry. They’re on toast when I eat them, but not for long: method is 1) cut bite-sized morsel off toast, 2) load it up with beans, 3) eat. Repeat until beans all gone, or happily full, which ever comes first.

    Tony, there was a pre-Sb pharyngula back in the mists of time. I came here via Sb, myself.

  334. 334
    Owlmirror

    I’ve often wondered how far back many of you folks go. When I hear one of you speak of the Science Blogs, it seems as if it’s been many years. Is there an origin of Pharyngula?

    GET

    OFF

    MY

    LAWN!!!!! . . . . !!

    youdamnkids!!!

    (I don’t actually go back all the way; I think I first hit the site ~2005)

  335. 335
    echidna

    Ooh, I think I’m a similar vintage to you, owlmirror. 2003/4 maybe?

  336. 336
    echidna

    No, I’ve just checked. It was 2005, the Dover trial. Owlmirror, was it the Dover trial that drew you in too?

  337. 337
    Owlmirror

    It might have been Dover.

    I really don’t remember.

  338. 338
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning

    Ing
    Hugs if you want them
    Maybe I can offer a bit of knowledge:
    Psychological impact of unemployment has a pretty reliable pattern and you are right in the depression phase.
    That’s not to say “snap out of it”, by no means, but I thought that since knowing about post-partum depression actually lowers the risk for women, maybe knowing about this might help, too.

    Tony

    Hmmm, never tried that. No salt, pepper or anything?
    Is there a certain type of pasta you prefer? Easy to twirl on a fork type, pick-uppable with a spoon type, or finger food (some of the shells out there are ginormous)

    Well, I use salted butter (I often forget that the other type exists except for baking)

    +++++
    3 days? Wow, some people are lucky. 5 to 6, usually. When I was a teen there would be one day I was completely fucked. I’d just lie in bed and wait until it got over.
    That got better when I was on birth control, but it sadly reduced my sex-drive to slightly above 0.
    After kid #1 it was pretty reliably at 27 days, after kid #2 it started to tumble down to 23 days. That’s probably when the thyroid started to fail. Meant that I became a bit anemic, since after 2 kids it’s also on the heavy side.
    But, hey, I live in a place and time where I can have artificial tyroxin and iron supplement.
    And I’m totally sold on mens-caps:
    -cheaper
    -more enviromentally friendly
    -less waste
    -less smell
    -no more “of shit I don’t have enough tampons”
    -less cramps

    Sex ed: it was kind of funny because if you’d have shoved coal up our teacher’s ass he would have shitted diamonds. He was OK with the anatomical part but then came the sex part. It was a copied, handwritten page, which he read aloud. I will never forget the sentence: The man inserts his penis into the woman’s vagina and moves it up and down. This gives both of them pleasure FULL STOP

    +++++
    So, today is the day of baking:
    carrot cake
    strawberry cupcakes
    apple-chocolate cake

    +++++

    Is anyone else feeling a bit sorry for Abbie at this point? Being known as the keeper of the slimepit can’t be good for her career.

    No, she made her bed herself. And it’s not that she didn’t contribute a lot of nastiness herself, like the stuff she said about Jen.

    Is Na Geo still the best thing since sliced bread, dear Abbie?

    But there he is, *mindlessly* backing up Watsons bad behavior AGAIN.

    What has Rebecca done this time? Suggested that people say “I’m sorry” if they accidentially step on somebody’s toe?
    Josh
    Sorry about the bike :(

  339. 339
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    I first heard about the place after the Expelled debacle, and then got heavily involved during Crackergate.

  340. 340
    betelgeux

    So I’m watching the live webcast of the CERN seminar on the possible discovery of the Higgs (if anyone wants an update, the results from the CMS detector indicate the Higgs exists with a certainty of 4.9 sigma, technically short of a discovery but still near-proof of the Higgs.).

    Anyway, the powerpoint displaying the results from the ATLAS detector is written entirely in COMIC SANS. Yeah, comic sans.

    Here’s a link to the webcast, if anyone’s interested:
    http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/play_higgs.html

  341. 341
    Walton

    Is anyone else feeling a bit sorry for Abbie at this point? Being known as the keeper of the slimepit can’t be good for her career.

    She could still rescue herself by shutting the whole thing down, banning the most offensive commenters and publicly disavowing the vile things they’ve said, and apologizing personally to Rebecca Watson and Ophelia Benson for what’s been said about them. But she doesn’t seem inclined to do that. The fact that she continues to allow – and indeed actively encourages – the nastiness suggests that she has no problem with it.

    The slimepitters do really seem to be the dregs of the internet. If I were faced with such a choice, I’d far rather hang out with Piltdown or with a bunch of creationists, say, than with Fr**c H**gle or his friends. At least the former are typically capable of having a civilized conversation without calling their critics “baboons” and “feminazis”, silencing women with misogynistic slurs, describing sexual acts in lurid detail, or advocating violence.

  342. 342
    Amblebury

    I know! I did the eye-brow raise at the comic sans too!

  343. 343
    Setár, Elvenkitty

    I don’t know about anyone else but I was expecting something higher than 125.3 +/- 0.6 GeV…

  344. 344
    bernarda

    Kristinc, for refried beans try soaking the beans overnight, discard the water and add some new water and cook them in a pressure cooker for 5 minutes. Open the cooker and drain the water and just cover the beans with new hot water. You now can add whatever spices or vegetables you want. Put the cover back on and cook for 10 to 15 minutes or maybe more. It is a little bit of trial and error.

    Then you should be able to mash them up and fry them if you want.

    A rhyme I learned in elementary school:

    “Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
    the more you eat, the more you toot.”

  345. 345
    Amblebury

    @bernarda:

    “Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
    the more you eat, the more you toot.

    The more you toot, the better you feel,
    baked beans, baked beans for every meal!”

  346. 346
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    carrot cake
    strawberry cupcakes
    apple-chocolate cake

    Want!

    Hm, I have apples and cooking chocolate and *checks the watch* maybe even enough time. Recipe?

  347. 347
    John Morales

    RahXephon:

    I love the community here and I want to see it grow, rather than shrink the way Shakesville has down to a core group of sycophantic-sounding regulars. I don’t think we can grow Pharyngula with the level of hostility I’ve seen.

    Bah.

    (Such concern!)

  348. 348
    John Morales

    RahXephon:

    And yes, I know trolls have diversified their tactics.
    [...]
    The rule I follow, for instance, is that if I answer someone and their post indicates to me that they didn’t actually read my post (i.e. they basically just repeat their first post), then they’re probably trolling.

    You need rules, but most of us have experience, and the three-comment rule was never more than a guideline.

    I don’t use the porcupine thing.I don’t use the porcupine thing.

    Big fucking deal. I don’t either.

    (I tailor my troll-bashing to the troll)

    I don’t think anyone should be required to do any 101-ing, but I also think “either I 101 or I attack back” is a false dichotomy (not that you were necessarily making such a dichotomy, Pteryxx).

    Why focus on feminism? Science, anti-creationism, anti-woo in general all have their own 101s and the same status.

    (Androbots, creobots, godbots, woobots are much the same)

  349. 349
    Pteryxx

    Ing
    Hugs if you want them
    Maybe I can offer a bit of knowledge:
    Psychological impact of unemployment has a pretty reliable pattern and you are right in the depression phase.

    Yikes Ing. *offers anklehugs*

    I didn’t know that much, but I know losing a job is way up there on the life-disruption scale they use to assess stress factors. Take care of yourself.

    re feminism-101: besides the actual Feminism 101 blog, several of us left background links on Jason Thibeault’s “In Media Res” page, would that help?

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/06/14/in-medias-res-how-to-find-the-plot-if-youre-just-tuning-in/

  350. 350
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    beatrice
    350g butter
    350g confectioner’s sugar
    6eggs
    2tbsp vanilla
    2teaspoons of cinnamon
    60g coacoa powder (not chocolate milk powder!)
    Beat butter with confectioner’s sugar
    mix in eggs and the other stuff

    Grate 750 g of apples
    mix 350g flour with 1 sachet baking powder
    mix with egg/butter mix.
    grease a baking tray (or put paper onto it), add dough
    Bake at 200°C for 40-50 minutes.
    Add melted chocolate on top
    The apples will vanish in the finished cake but make it very soft and juicy

    ++++
    There’s a mystery in our estate!
    Somebody drove with quite some power and frontally into a fence, which was destroyed beyond recognition and mowed down some trees.
    But there’s no way that person could have driven there unless they mixed up gears and drove off the carpark in front of our house.
    But the bushes there are unscathed!
    (Possible explenation: it was those idiot construction workers with a digger, which would have enough power and weight and momentum)

  351. 351
    John Morales

    frogkisser, welcome etc.

  352. 352
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Giliell,

    Thanks!

  353. 353
    'Tis Himself

    People head to the water for the 4th – beach, lake, river, what have you.

    Long Island Sound in my case. We’ll be racing today.

  354. 354
    Alex

    Give me an H!

    Give me an I!

    Give me a G!

    Give me a G!

    Give me an S!

    HIGGS!

    WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

  355. 355
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Someone has finally conceptualized my feelings for the most overused and useless scientific metaphor in history:

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02267/god_2267070c.jpg

  356. 356
    Nightjar

    I first heard about the place after the Expelled debacle

    Hm. I think one of the first posts I remember from back when I was starting to read Pharyngula more regularly was PZ complaining that the documentary film Crossroads he had been interviewed for turned out to be the creationist movie Expelled.

    *checks*

    So, summer 2007 for me, it seems. And look:

    I will go see this movie, and I will cheer loudly at my 30 seconds or whatever on the screen

    Ha!

  357. 357
    Stacy

    Peter Higgs wiping away tears…wouldn’t have missed that for the world.

    Oh, and that talk about the importance of “fundamental science”–and the importance of scientific outreach to impoverished nations?

    That gave me a hopeful.

    Every now and then I am proud to be human. This is one of those times. :)

  358. 358
    Alex


    There once was a lad up from Tyneside,
    Who one day found out much to his own delight:
    Once gauge symmetries’ gone,
    There should be a boson!
    Turns out he was right, in hindsight.

    Ok so much for my Limerick skills.

  359. 359
    Alex

    @McC2lhu iz not nu.

    That is so going on a tshirt and a poster now.

  360. 360
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Your limerick would have been easier crafting if he had been from Nantucket.

  361. 361
    John Morales

    Hm. I just reviewed and this my seventh year here as a commenter.

    The salient attractor for me hasn’t changed, though: here, I can be myself.

  362. 362
    John Morales

    I note the tenth anniversary of Pharyngula has come and gone unnoticed.

    (I miss Pirate Mode :| )

  363. 363
    Louis

    I see there are interesting nuances to the Higgs data that mean we don’t yet know if it is a Standard Model Higgs or not. Looks like there’s fun times ahead for physicists.

    Sorting out the Nobel this year is going to be fun I think.

    Louis

  364. 364
    John Morales

    Louis @363, um, do Nobels typically get awarded in the same year someone supposedly merits it?

  365. 365
    Alex

    @John Morales,

    For example, the nobel prizes for the discovery of the W and Z bosons were really quick, either the same year or the following. However, those were experimental nobels, so I don’t know. In a sense, the theory nobels for the W and Z boson were given out 4 years prior to the discovery! :)

    @Louis,

    One can only hope that the relative excess seen in the decay of the Higgs boson to pairs of photons means something other than a fluctuation or systematic error. If it were real, it would be a tell tale sign of either a nonstandard higgs boson, or, also an intriguing possibility, a standard higgs boson but additional new particles interfering with its decays. That would be almost too good to be true.

  366. 366
  367. 367
    John Morales

    Tyrant, the key word is ‘typically’.

    (You’ve noted an outlier)

  368. 368
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    I hope you’Re sitting, because I’m going to give you this gem from Paula Kirby’s twitter (put into plain text for readability):

    Last year one of the Oppressed Sisters described women in the atheist movement who don’t take the RadFem view as ‘house-slaves’. Strangely, no one attacked her for the term on the basis that we weren’t actually flogged for failing to polish the doorstep properly .. or that using slavery as an analogy was disrespectful to its victims.
    Bold by me
    Oh the irony…

  369. 369
    John Morales

    Giliell, heh.

    “no one attacked her” → I didn’t attack her… then.

    (Twitter ain’t conducive to citations, is it?)

  370. 370
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Caine – Another thanks for the ratties update here. Poor Sam :( but lol at Esme sitting on the babies like a dragon guarding her treasure. Great image.
    D: at the runt being gone.

    Ladybusiness – Had the most horribly irregular and painful periods for most of my life. 28 day cycle but 7 days of severe bleeding and pain. Seriously, some of the months I cramped made my labours (first, not second stage) and recent appendicitis look like walks in the park.

    After spawning, the cramping eased off, surprisingly enough, and I’m now on the depo shot so I only get light spotting. I think it’s the first time in my post-puberty life that I’m not anemic!

    Beans! Being from a former British colony, I can only repeat how wonderful baked beans on toast is. SO GOOD.

    We are Ing – So sorry that you are going through the unemployment horror. It sucks, bigtime. My spouse has been unemployed for six months and it’s really, really hard on both of us. No advice, just *hugs* and sympathies.

    Tone and argumentation:
    Here I can only QFT what Tethys said in 216:

    Pharyngula’s tone

    As a middle aged female, I have a bellyful of repressed anger over sexism in our society. This is the first place I have ever encountered where I do not have to be diplomatic when some douchebiscuit says something stupid. I do not have to worry about being branded a bitch, being shouted down, or being assaulted.

    The fact that the horde and PZ will actually have my back, rather than punish me for not being a nice person to assholes is entirely novel in my experience.

    When you spend your life *having* to be nice to assholes, even the ones who are openly being assholes and harrassers, it’s really, really precious to have a place like this where anger is allowed.

    Josh Ack! Sorry about your bike! Assholes.

    Caine @286, that’s some righteous awesomeness! Excellent pick me up story, yay for the cop and you!

    I can only lol @ the Slimepit shenanigans.
    ___________________________________

    I hate the Sims. And I love it. I want to start playing and creating content for it again – that apparently means many gigs of downloads of patches and updates and whatnots. UGH. Fucking #FTBullies.

    ___________________

    Oh right! USians, happy 4th!

  371. 371
    Therrin

    On the subject of singing penis (not to be confused with a singing penis, which shall remain unlinked).

  372. 372
    Moggie

    Louis:

    Sorting out the Nobel this year is going to be fun I think.

    You’re on the Nobel committee? Woohoo! Are you accepting bribes?

    Hands up who wanted to hug Peter Higgs when he was wiping away tears?

    Seriously annoyed that comment threads all over the net are/will descend into goddist arguments because of that “God particle” bullshit.

  373. 373
    Jadzia626

    As an ex.particle physicist I find my surprisingly uninterested in the Higgs news.

    What’s wrong with me?

  374. 374
    Alex

    @Jadzia,

    As an ex.particle physicist I find my surprisingly uninterested in the Higgs news.

    ex as in former or as in experimental?

    @Moggie,

    Yes, me too, I found it very touching. As for the forum discussions revolving around the subject, they are filled with idiots, so I stopped reading. The alternative would have been to write rebuttals all day, and I have to work…

  375. 375
    Jadzia626

    @Tyrant

    Both actually …
    Ex experimental particle physicist :)

    Only for my grad programme though, but still …

  376. 376
    Jadzia626

    @Maggie

    “Seriously annoyed that comment threads all over the net are/will descend into goddist arguments because of that “God particle” bullshit.”

    Don’t even get me started >.<

  377. 377
    Alex

    Jadzia,

    well I don’t know why you feel the way you do. The last real particle discovery (not counting hadrons, so the tau neutrino) was before my career, so this is the first discovery moment I have directly witnessed in my field, and it kind of felt magic. At the same time, for a theorist like me, this discovery really is a double edged sword. I am quite afraid that dark matter might be inacessible to detection, and that the Higgs boson will have been the last fundamental physics discovery not only in my carreer but also for decades or centuries to come. I am working on proving this suspicion wrong of course, but there is always this nagging afterthought in all the excitement about the discovery, that maybe this great day was the kiss of slow death for my discipline.

  378. 378
    Jadzia626

    Yes, this anit-climax is partially it. Added that the ~3 sigma result from earlier was the big buzz-moment for me. I have a friend that worked in the gamma-gamma channel at ATLAS, as well as still being social with many others in that research group. So I have been following the progress for quite some time.

    Higgs was the missing particle in the SM, and it has been, what, a decade since the last? I am too afraid there will be a long pause now as the exotic theories are that, exotic.

    How does this discovery of a single Higgs impact some of the SUSY models? Is there any future left in SUSY?

  379. 379
    The Mellow Monkey

    The Higgs boson has convinced me that my little brother’s switch from physics major to mathematics was absolutely the right choice. He had somehow managed to avoid hearing about it until today when I made a comment to him and then he just shrugged and said, “That’s no surprise. Big fucking deal. You can’t do anything with it.”

  380. 380
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Yay, last cake is in the oven.
    Now for cleaning up that mess…

  381. 381
    Alex

    Jadzia,

    the tau neutrino was in 2000 I think, roughly coincident with the discovery of neutrino oscillations.

    How does this discovery of a single Higgs impact some of the SUSY models? Is there any future left in SUSY?

    It’s mainly the mass of the higgs that is worrysome to SUSYites. The fact that we only see one Higgs so far is not a severe problem for SUSY. One can argue that for large regions of parameter space, the other four higgses would not only be heavier but also much harder to see.

    But the measured mass, 125 GeV or even 126.5 GeV, that’s an issue for SUSY. As you may know, the Higgs boson mass in the minimal supersymmetric standard model is only lifted above the Z boson mass by virtual corrections which roughly go in their size with the mass of the supersymmetric partner particles. That means, to get a Higgs boson of 126 GeV in the minimal supersymmetric model, you have to make the supersymmetric partners, in particular those of the top quark, quite heavy – some estimate up to 10000 GeV. That is in and of itself not a problem because it would actually explain why we can’t have seen SUSY yet at the LHC, but the downside of this is that the fine tuning of the Higgs scale is considerable, way below 1 part in 1000.

    If you are not a person to worry about fine tuning because you have found an anthropic explanation for it or other philosophical reasons, you could simply take todays discovery as a pointer that SUSY, if it exists in nature, should be waiting for us at the 3000…10000 GeV mark at the lowest.

  382. 382
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Good morning.

    Happy Monday!

    Oggie, I haz a curiousy. What kinds of books do you write?

    I don’t.

    Getting crabs on the 4th of July is a Thing?

    People head to the water for the 4th – beach, lake, river, what have you.

    Not sure if a waterbed is necessary to get crabs. I mean, it can’t hurt (well, it could itch), right?

    I can definitively say that they want to create a new blog for the slimepit if NatGeo begins controlling content more rigorously

    I thought that the ERVcrew were claiming that any attempt to control the content was a plot by the Pharyngula Winged Monkeys to stifle the precious freedom of expression found on a particular ongoing thread?

    But but but :( PZ IS MY HEEEEROOOO

    No. It would then be “Bt bt bt :( PZ S MY HR.”

    Oh right! USians, happy 4th!

    Thank you. In Depends Day has a long and very, er, an old and very liquid tradition.

  383. 383
    Pteryxx

    (Twitter ain’t conducive to citations, is it?)

    Not really, but it’ll take shortened URLs. Here’s one from#FTBullies last night:

    PZ Myers ‏@pzmyers

    By the way, if you’re wondering what #FTBullies is all about, visit http://tinyurl.com/7ygbvvr ! Read all our blogs! (viral advertising FTW)

  384. 384
    ImaginesABeach

    Happy birthday, Patricia.

  385. 385
    Pteryxx

    …Holy moley, the Twitter’s still going.

    9m Sally Strange Sally Strange ‏@SallyStrange

    @PhilosophyExp @PaulaSKirby #FTBullies are confused. Aren’t y’all supposed to be silenced by our totalitarian #femistasi? SILENCE FOOLS!

  386. 386
    opposablethumbs

    What, we can no longer cravenly adulate the supremacy and highness and nonpareil poopyheadedness of the Great Supreme High Poopyhead? But, but he’s so august!

    Still, everybody knows it’s the sheer cephalopodian squidliness and Evil Overlord accoutrements that are to die for (and the Undersea Volcano Lair of course).

  387. 387
    opposablethumbs

    It’s Patricia’s birthday?

    Happy birthday! I hope there is much rejoicing and cake.

  388. 388
    Louis

    John,

    No I don’t think Nobels are typically awarded the year someone merits them, but this isn’t that year!

    The papers from Higgs (and others) are (IIRC) ~30 years old, many of the collaborations (scientific, financial and political) and technologies underpinning the LHC are at least that old, the headline “discovery” of a ~5 sigma peak* is the culmination of those things, not the sum, as I’m sure you know.

    Louis

    * Gross oversimplification because a) I am not a physicist (although I did read a book once and can spell Feynman) and b) it’s kinda tangential to the point!

  389. 389
    Alex

    Louis,

    48 years

  390. 390
    Louis

    Moggie,

    I WISH! I think that honour might have to wait a few years. Say about the number of years it will take me to be reincarnated into a Nobel Laureate, which given that I am likely to be a liver fluke next life, could be a while.

    ;-)

    Louis

  391. 391
    Louis

    Tyrant al-Kalām,

    Cheers for the precisification! (Oh that is so a word)

    As for your #365, Hmmm yeah. I have yet to decide whether I’d be happier with “Oh look the standard Higgs is all there is, let’s do something else.” or “Wait a second, that’s odd!”. Probably the latter to be honest, but as it’s not my field and I want more funding for chemistry, I’ll go with option 3 “Physics is now over, give all funding to Louis”.

    Hey, a boy can dream can’t he?

    Louis

  392. 392
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Happy birthday, Patricia

    Happy 4th to the Meiricans

  393. 393
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Josh:

    Oh also? Some bastard stole my new bike last night right off my back porch.

    Jesus fucking Christ.

    We get thefts like that all the time. A few months ago, there was some dude who wandered into our fenced-in private parking area and tried to break into our/our downstairs neighbor’s cars. Luckily, a loud “HEY!” from the second-story deck scared him off before he stole/damaged anything.

    Oenotria:

    Unfortunately, the uterus makes up for lost time as soon as the baby is born. You get 9 months’ worth of periods all at once.

    So I hear. D:

    Tony:

    I’ve often wondered how far back many of you folks go. When I hear one of you speak of the Science Blogs, it seems as if it’s been many years. Is there an origin of Pharyngula?

    The move wasn’t that long ago, was it?
    (God, I’ve been here for years.)

    I’ve no idea how long I’ve been around and I’m not sure how to check (since it looks like the old Sb Pharyngula comments are still missing). I’m gonna spitball between 2 and 3 years, so I’m still a relative n00b. :p

    In other news: I’m seriously thinking of having ice cream for second breakfast. I have a pint of “best in the world“* dark chocolate ice cream that’s just begging to be eaten up!

    *In 2010, anyway.

  394. 394
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    *confetti for Patricia!*

  395. 395
    Jadzia626

    @Tyrant

    I did an introductory course in SUSY a year ago. Mostly formalism/concept and a little on MSSM.

    I remember the ->3TeV desert was discussed too. Hence the predicted drought in near future of experimental particle physics? Next step seems to be e+e- colliders. Got some old colleagues working on the designs.

  396. 396
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Happy birthday Patricia!

    ~~
    Good news on the HIV/AIDS front:

    The US Food and Drug Administration has approved the first over-the-counter HIV test, allowing Americans to check themselves for the virus that causes Aids in the privacy of their homes. The OraQuick test detects the presence of HIV in saliva collected using a mouth swab. The test is designed to return a result within 20 to 40 minutes.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/04/hiv-take-home-test-us

    ~~

    Giliell:

    There’s a mystery in our estate!
    Somebody drove with quite some power and frontally into a fence, which was destroyed beyond recognition and mowed down some trees.

    I read this shortly after waking up, and for some reason I pictured the Addams Family home (either the tv show or the movie). Not sure why. Perhaps the post-sleep mind funk (and now I’m trying to figure out which of the Pharyngula regulars corresponds to which Addams Family character…)

  397. 397
    Rey Fox

    I don’t know a Higgs Boson from a pig’s bosom, but it’s got to be more interesting and cooler than the least interesting fictional character in the whole of fiction.

    I think I can actually trace my readership of Pharyngula back to when he featured a piece of art by Ursula Vernon. “Ammoknight”. I don’t know when I started commenting though.

    Now there’s a deadly disease for you…but Ginsburg survived. Probably due at least in part to her excellent medical insurance. Perhaps that influenced her decision, knowing that others in her situation might not survive simply because they could not afford immediate treatment for their problems.

    Well then clearly she should have recused herself. Like that California judge who ruled on Prop 8.

    Josh, you might want to check out #203.

    Why, is Josh in need of an emetic?

    Maybe we should offer them a blog at FtB?
    A gift from the devil? Oh, it would be fun to hear the response.

    Considering how much they howl over being “censored” from here, I think they’d shit their pants. They’re at least savvy enough to know who the cool kids are, and they desperately want into the in crowd.

    That was a seriously good damn day.

    That actually happened in real life? Sweet.

  398. 398
    alkaloid

    Does someone have some good references against the “men’s brains are different from women’s brains, therefore women are worse at science” brand of bad argumentation? I ran into a misogynist that was pushing this kind of sexism a couple of weeks ago, but I don’t think I did a very good job arguing against them and want to do better the next time I get the chance.

  399. 399
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    My brain is fired.

    Like, last night I had a dream that Jesus came down from Heaven to tell me that I was awesome and to take me to my high school prom.

    But! He totes snuck away from me during the dance and I caught him underneath the bleachers snogging Josh SpokesGay.

    *so confused*

    Also: It is the 4th of July. So, I am sitting at my computer in my panties eating cold pizza and drinking beer. Happy birthday, America! Please, stop fucking things up and stick to what you do best.

  400. 400
    Alex

    Tony,
    That’s great news.
    But my gut reaction is – a take home HIV test is such a scary thing. Can you imagine what it must be like using it? And then what are the false positive/negative rates?

    Can somebody explain these numbers to me:

    A trial conducted by Orasure showed the home test correctly detected HIV in those carrying the virus 92% of the time. That means the test could miss one person for every 12 HIV-infected people who use the kit.

    The test was 99% accurate in ruling out HIV in patients not carrying the virus. That means the test would incorrectly identify one patient as having HIV for every 5,000 HIV-negative people tested.

    There’s the usual Bayesian problem that a test which gives false positives in 1% of cases means that if someone is tested positive in a society where the disease is very rare, is more likely to actually be negative than positive because of the conditinal probabilities.

    How do they get the 1 in 5000? Am I too stupid to multiply numbers?

    @Jadzia,

    Is going to such energies with e+e- practicable? With linacs I suppose?
    Germany was so close to having a e+e- superconducting linac in Hamburg… That would have been the perfect higgs factory.

  401. 401
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Check out today’s Google Doodle for Canada: http://www.google.ca/

  402. 402
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Also, Jesus looked like the love child of PZ and Ed Brayton.

    And no, I don’t know what that means.

    WTF, brain, WTF.

  403. 403
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Thinking about comfort food, I forgot that pizza *used* to be on my list (working at a restaurant that primarily serves pizza has taken the comfort out of the food). That said, I do wonder what this pizza tastes like:

    But all is not what it seems, because the trad toppings – “all natural!” – hide a base flecked “like black pepper” with Hebridean seaweed. This, apparently, acts as a low-sodium seasoning, as well as supplying iron, iodine, and vitamin B12 so, although the pizzas fall well below government salt targets, “they don’t taste like they need salt”. The tomato sauce, meanwhile, is made with red pepper, which boosts its vitamin C content. Each pizza, the company proudly claims, provides a third of your daily nutrition requirements, from fibre to fat and protein.http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/jul/03/healthy-pizza-too-good-true

    ~~

    This may hold some promise for the atheist/skeptic community {emphasis mine}:

    In 2011, “I Wish This Was” made the jump from the storefront to the Internet and became Neighborland. Like the storefronts, it’s a sounding board for a better community, except now it’s moving at broadband speeds. People are still asking for buses and groceries, but people are also asking for computer science degrees at Tulane, recycling programs and zoning ordinances And the right people are listening. The neighborhoods where it has been launched are changing at breakneck speeds, and Neighborland is hoping to give their residents a stronger voice in how that happens.
    The tool is, from a nuts and bolts standpoint, not that much different from Twitter or Facebook. People talk, people second what others have said, people bounce ideas up and down. As far as Neighborland is concerned, an Internet discussion is a nice distraction but not the main product. The streets are where the real action is. The trouble is getting there.
    The resemblance to social media like Twitter and Facebook turned out to be prophetic. Neighborland recently attracted big investment from Twitter co-founder Biz Stone’s Obvious as a way to take the social interactions pioneered by other programs and create civic engagement in a more intentional way. They’re cautiously making the transition from an art project in New Orleans to a tool that could change the ways communities interact with themselves and their cities everywhere.http://www.salon.com/2012/07/04/making_the_internet_real_salpart/

  404. 404
    Alex

    Esteleth,

    It might be something very deep and disturbing. Or it might simply be your brain telling you that you spend too much time on FtB :D

  405. 405
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Esteleth:
    You have scaaaaaary dreams. Where else can Jesus, prom and lovechild of Ed and PZ be found?

  406. 406
    Jadzia626

    @alkaloid

    I reviewed/summarized a study on the sicnece skillz of womanz a little while ago:

    http://www.purplenoize.com/2012/06/stereotype-threats-and-women-in-science.html

    The article is referenced, and a few others are too. This is social science though, not neuro …

    If you email me (details on the about page) I can email you the study.

  407. 407
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Tyrant al-Kalām,
    Very true. The fact that the entire dream was also in Simlish and I explained to Jesus my thesis project from graduate school is just the cherry on the sundae.

  408. 408
    Pteryxx

    I just posted a huge twitter roundup over at Ophelia’s, for y’all twitter impaired:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2012/07/i-made-something-trend-on-twitter/#comment-212771

  409. 409
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    E,

    So, I am sitting at my computer in my panties eating cold pizza and drinking beer. Happy birthday, America!

    I’m about to celebrate by playing violent video games and eating ice cream in Batman pjs. Woo!

    Please, stop fucking things up and stick to what you do best.

    You mean… fucking things up?

  410. 410
    The Mellow Monkey

    Er?

    But all is not what it seems, because the trad toppings – “all natural!” – hide a base flecked “like black pepper” with Hebridean seaweed. This, apparently, acts as a low-sodium seasoning, as well as supplying iron, iodine, and vitamin B12 so, although the pizzas fall well below government salt targets, “they don’t taste like they need salt”.

    [Emphasis mine.]

    Wouldn’t this be a B12 analogue at best, and not the actual vitamin? I’d been under the impression that while there are similar compounds in some seaweeds, they don’t actually do anything for B12 deficiency. Has something new developed/been discovered?

  411. 411
    Jadzia626

    @Tyrant

    Well, LEP was just below the Higgs range in probing capability, so it wouldn’t take that much to build one suitable for that, but current plans are in the TeV range depending on what technology works out. This of course requires linear colliders due to synchrotron radiation loss and all that. Scales as 1/m^4 I think, so electrons are horrible compared to hadrons.

    They’re working on new accelerator tech at the moment. Some funky RF cavity designs I think. Exploiting how magnetic fields are reflected in different geometries. Current design is 40km long, at least from what I got from last time I was at a talk on this. But that was 2 years ago. I’m a little out of date on this.

  412. 412
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    This was posted in the other thread, but I think it needs to be seen here: Extreme sheepherding.

  413. 413
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    alkaloid
    All of Cordelia Fine’s “The Gender Delusion”. She carefully takes all those claims apart.
    For example, most of the differences are due to size, which corelates with bioogical sex, but does not follow. So, small men have a brain much like an average woman while a tall woman has one like a man. Still nobody claims that small men make bad scientists.
    She also goes into the history and shows how they used that explenation from the first time on they ever weighed and meassured a brain.

  414. 414
    Jadzia626

    @Giliell

    The study I referred to is also referred to in that book. Have bought it, but not read it yet. Got the reference from Rebecca Watson.

  415. 415
    opposablethumbs

    Tony – re Addams family, I’d love to be Wednesday (aspiring to the impossible is good, right?).

    I have a lovely, creepy old book of Charles Addams cartoons. One of my favourites is the one with Fester in a wine-shop late at night asking for “a cask of Amontillado, please”. He has a sack of cement under his arm.

    I first read them when I was quite little and before reading any Poe, so it was a while before I got that one.

  416. 416
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Esteleth:
    your link doesn’t work…

  417. 417
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    opposablethumbs:
    Wednesday sounds good!
    So does that mean PZ = Gomez?
    Who is Morticia?
    Lurch?
    And who wants to be Thing??!!

  418. 418
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    And who wants to be Thing??!!

    I’ll be Thing, if I can. After all, with my cryptic descriptions of myself and my usual duds, many of you may be picturing me along those lines.

  419. 419
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Bah.

    I know html, I do, I do!

    The link: extreme sheep herding

  420. 420
    Pteryxx

    (rant) SF channel is running a Firefly marathon all day today, perfect for noobs like me… but with NO CAPTIONING. Daaaaamn youuuuu! *sobs*

  421. 421
    dianne

    He totes snuck away from me during the dance and I caught him underneath the bleachers snogging Josh SpokesGay.

    And then ran off to join the group sex with Louis orgy. Jesus loves us all. (But does he use barrier protection while doing so?)

  422. 422
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I was just reading up on euthanasia and the ‘right to die’ a week or so ago (and wishing the debate were discussed more often in the US). Lo and behold:

    .During the past two decades, similar contested rulings have opened the way for physician-assisted death in the United States. Despite strong opposition from religious organizations and groups representing handicapped and disabled people, Oregon and Washington state legalized physician-assisted suicide in 1997 and 2008, respectively. In fact, since 1997, more than 900 people in Oregon have received a prescription to commit suicide, while in Washington, nearly 300 people have requested a similar death in the last four years. Assisted suicide, to put it mildly, is a controversial subject — and one that continues to be fought over vociferously by both right-to-die activists and religious groups. But according to Howard Ball, a professor emeritus of political science at the University of Vermont, the legalization of physician-assisted death is a gesture of human compassion. As he details in his new book, “At Liberty to Die: The Battle for Death With Dignity in America,” the issue goes to the heart of bigger questions about the American soul — from the meaning of personal liberty to the importance of constitutional law. http://www.salon.com/2012/07/03/wheres_our_right_to_die/

    It’s not just an issue of being compassionate (it often can be), but fundamentally it’s an issue of bodily autonomy. Being a pro-choice advocate means supporting a woman’s bodily autonomy so, I wonder if the two movements might overlap at some point (that’s if they haven’t already).

  423. 423
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Happy July Fourth and happy birthday, Patricia!

    Also, today ACTA was rejected by the European Parliament while the Higgs Boson was discovered.

    In other news, a new forum run by the slimepitters popped up on the #FtBullies hashtag TL. *shudder*

  424. 424
    Oenotrian

    I’ve often wondered how far back many of you folks go. When I hear one of you speak of the Science Blogs, it seems as if it’s been many years. Is there an origin of Pharyngula?

    Let’s see, I found Pharyngula on sB when I was trying to put together a decent home-school science curriculum for my son. That would have been… [looks at son, counts on fingers, looks at calendar] the summer of 2007, so five years for me.

    ———–

    #FTBullies changed the Higgs Boson presentation font to comic sans.

  425. 425
    Alex

    I started reading Pharyngula when PZ was on the SGU for the first time. I forgot when that was.

  426. 426
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    I first heard of Pharyngula before it joined the sB network, and was following it on and off for years, that is blog entries only without the comments. Lurking and commenting came much later…

  427. 427
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Esteleth:
    The link worked.
    I wonder how many hours it took to get the dogs, sheep and people trained…
    Damn that was impressive.

  428. 428
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    dianne:
    (But does he use barrier protection while doing so?)

    Dontcha know condoms make baby jesus cry?

  429. 429
    ChasCPeterson

    Is there an origin of Pharyngula?

    Off the top of my head, and therefore +/- 1 year:
    PZ Myers established pharyngula.org in maybe 2004 on a disused PC in the corner of his lab as a class project for developmental biology students to ‘blog’ their independent learning on the subject. When the class was over, he kept it going as his personal blog in the then-nascent blogosphere. His was one of the first so-called ‘science blogs’ out there, and it got him mentioned in I think Nature, which is when I tuned in. In 2006 Seed magazine started the network ScienceBlogs with Pharyngula and maybe 5 other blogs, including Brayton’s. As you can see from the archives here, Brayton and Myers founded FtB last summer shortly after ScienceBlogs was bought by National Geographic. Pharyngula still exists over there as an atheism/politics-free version.

  430. 430
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Random nutrition/genetics vs. woo question: a friend refuses to eat supermarket corn & tomatoes because “it’s all genetically modified and has fish genes” altho’ she eats fish. (When I pointed that out she called them “Frankenfoods.” I’ve tried to Web-search what genes, in how much of what foods, but anything factual is drowned out by the numerous alarmist sites.

    Can someone enlighten me? I read about it some years ago when it was new and it sounded innocuous and non-harmful as long as you weren’t allergic to that particular fish protein.

  431. 431
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    I remember the transition from pharyngula.org proper to scienceblogs, so I’ve been reading it from about 2005. Just stumbled across it whilst looking for science stories. And I’ve been science-blogging since 2004 although I’m starting to slow down now–need to make a living.

  432. 432
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I think I have been around (under various ‘nyms (including (((Billy))) and Billy the Atheist)) since about 2009 so I definately qualify as a newbie compared to those old farts.

    I don’t think I have actually added anything to the quality of the interaction, but I’ve been here.

  433. 433
    Weedless Monkey

    And who wants to be Thing??!!

    Ogvorbis called the dibs on the Addams Thing, so I’ll be the Thing from the Carpenter movie.

  434. 434
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *hides from Weed Monkey*

  435. 435
    ChasCPeterson

    supermarket corn & tomatoes because “it’s all genetically modified and has fish genes”

    Your friend is misinformed.
    According to ‘kipedia:

    there are no genetically modified tomatoes available commercially….
    An early tomato was developed that contained an antifreeze gene (afa3) from the winter flounder with the aim of increasing the tomato’s tolerance to frost (see Fish tomato). The antifreeze protein was found to inhibit ice recrystallization in the flounders blood, but had no effect when expressed in transgenic tobacco. The resulting tomato was never commercialized

    AFAICT there have never been any fish genes in corn/maize. Some brands of corn are engineered for insect resistance or herbicide resistance but it’s my impression that this is less common in corn grown for direct human consumption.

  436. 436
    dianne

    I remember the transition from pharyngula.org proper to scienceblogs,

    Me too. And I still miss the pirate mode from the original Pharyngula.

  437. 437
    dysomniak "They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred!"

    Furthermore, there are no transgenic crops in use that incorporate any DNA of animal origin at all. Dr Kevin Folta has a great presentation about frankenfoods which is available as a podcast here: http://www.podcast.veganchicago.com/

  438. 438
    Oenotrian

    I decided that I needed to modify my ‘nym on Twitter to avoid entangling it with meatspace. Unfortunately, there’s already an “Oenotria” on Twitter, so I’m @Oenotrian there and, now, here.

    One question, though. If the word is Greek in origin, would there be a feminine form?

  439. 439
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    My parents sent me a book! It’s about the Dover case, a compendium of essays on the matter, from people on both sides. It’s called But Is It Science? The Philosophical Question in the Creation/Evolution Controversy and it actually seems pretty good. It seems to take the tack of giving the IDiots just enough rope to hang themselves (seriously, it includes an essay by Gish that can only be described as moronic).

  440. 440
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Thank you! I know my friend is misinformed big time–she trusts Joe Mercola–but I couldn’t say how in this case.

  441. 441
    Cipher

    Re: Brave [spoilers and potential but unlikely triggers]
    Qvq lbh zrna jura Zrevqn’f zbgure guebjf vg vagb gur sver?

    Yep. My brain’s quick vivid memory was fucking with me, which was no doubt exacerbated by being already in a bad place with regard to All the Evil (part of why I’m trying to take time off the sexism things here). Zl rk unq n zbzrag jurer ur bfgragngvbhfyl qvqa’g qrfgebl fbzrguvat bs zvar, juvyr yrpghevat zr nobhg ubj ur pbhyq unir naq gubhtug nobhg vg ohg qrpvqrq abg gb orpnhfr ur jnf gbb avpr gb qb fbzrguvat yvxr gung orpnhfr ur xarj vg jbhyq oernx zr. V npghnyyl fcrag n cerggl ybat gvzr nsgre vg unccrarq bofrffvat nobhg jung vg zrnag sbe uvz gb qb gung, fvapr ur boivbhfyl jnfa’g gbb avpr gb qb nal bs gur bgure guvatf ur qvq *fueht* Naq gura ure unefu culfvpny pelvat guerj zr bire gur rqtr.

    I don’t think I have actually added anything to the quality of the interaction, but I’ve been here.

    This is lies! You’ve been awesome, and fire stories, and feminism threads, and railroads!

    Happy birthday, Patricia! *glitter confetti*

    May all your local fireworks displays be pretty, safe, less loud than usual, and in a place and time that does not cause undue disturbance to kids, pets, combat veterans, survivors of violence, sensory defensives, or anyone else.

  442. 442
    Cipher

    YAY ITALICS
    ITALICS FOR ALL THE THINGS

  443. 443
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Seriously, a glance at the table of contents was enough to clue me in that it might be taking a certain tack:
    1. Genesis 1 and 2 and John 1:1-18 (KJV)
    2. From Natural Theology by William Paley
    3. From On the Origin of Species by Charles Darwin
    4. From Objections to Mr Darwin’s Theory of the Origin of Species by Adam Sedgwick
    5. From The Origin of Species by Thomas H. Huxley
    6. From What is Darwinism? by Charles Hodge
    7. “Darwinism as a Metaphysical Research Program” by Karl Popper
    8. “Karl Popper’s Philosophy of Biology” by Michael Ruse
    9. “Human Nature: One Evolutionist’s View” by Francisco Ayala
    10. “Universal Darwinism” by Richard Dawkins.

    Those are the first 10 chapters (of 28). The Kitzmiller and McLean rulings are printed in full, as is a substantial chunk of the testimony from Kitzmiller.

    The last chapter is called “Can’t Philosophers Tell the Difference Between Science and Religion?”

  444. 444
    Gregory Greenwood

    In the immortal words of Fururama’s Professor Farnsworth, “gather round, everyone” – I have news of considerable awesomeness for you.

    I have discovered the perfect gaming pass time for Pharynguloids. I give you Cthulhu Dice

    Sanity stealing shenanigans for all!

  445. 445
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie:

    I think I have been around (under various ‘nyms (including (((Billy))) and Billy the Atheist)) since about 2009 so I definately qualify as a newbie compared to those old farts.

    Crap Jesus, I remember your old ‘nyms. So, yeah, about 3 years for me (just like I thought).

    Tony:

    Being a pro-choice advocate means supporting a woman’s bodily autonomy so, I wonder if the two movements might overlap at some point (that’s if they haven’t already).

    I haven’t seen too much organized overlap on “our” side*, but the opposition definitely does. For instance, in MA, one of the loudest opponents of the Death With Dignity initiative is… wait for it… the Catholic Church.

    *Not surprisingly, I’m on the “right to die” side of things.

  446. 446
    Patricia, OM

    Heey everybody! It’s that day again. My birthday! The spanking couch is ready, and there’s free grog and swill for all.

    *Gates to castle Anthrax swing open*

  447. 447
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    This is lies! You’ve been awesome, and fire stories, and feminism threads, and railroads!

    I didn’t claim that I didn’t contribute. The other commenteers up here manage to always say what they mean clearly. I envy that.

    ========

    And happy birthday, Patricia. I am grilling chicken tonight. Not sure if it is a pullet. Probably not — more likely a hen. But happy birthday anyway.

  448. 448
    Weedless Monkey

    Esteleth

    *hides from Weed Monkey*

    BWAHAHAHA! You can hide but you can’t [incomprehensible sounds of screeching and burning]

  449. 449
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    *dumps the entire oil stock of Kuwait on Weed Monkey, pulls out box of matches*

  450. 450
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Hrm. I found a blog series all about issues of disabled people WRT atheism. Covering everything from events being held at inaccessible locations to ableist comments.

    Quite interesting! Definitely indicates a great need.

  451. 451
    Cipher

    Og, sorry for the misreading. I was pre-caffeinated, and posting while pre-caffeinated is never a good idea for me. Thus the AWESOME ITALICS FOR EVERYTHING.

  452. 452
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Happy Birthday, Patricia.

    Fourth Of July

    Fourth Of July

  453. 453
    Patricia, OM

    Thanks! Thanks!

    *twirls*

  454. 454
    Weedless Monkey

    Happy birthday, Patricia! I bring gifts of habanero vodka, incense that smells like a whale’s ass and some true, rock hard, Lutheran rye bread. So, where’s the spanking couch? *stretches*

  455. 455
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    *dumps the entire oil stock of Kuwait on Weed Monkey, pulls out box of matches*

    Kerosene

  456. 456
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    *catapults/trebuchets at ready, loaded with aged grog enhanced fireworks for tonights celebration*

  457. 457
    Weedless Monkey

    Kerosene

    Oh. I haven’t listened to Big Black for months. Thanks.

    Bad Penny

  458. 458
    Patricia, OM

    Weed Monkey – Ohhh, nice gifts. The Lutheran bread will be a welcome addition to the paddle collection. Thanks!

    Spanking couch is in Castle Anthrax…you’ll enjoy the adventure of finding it. *smirk*

  459. 459
    The Mellow Monkey

    Esteleth, Raging Dyke of Fuck Mountain:

    Hrm. I found a blog series all about issues of disabled people WRT atheism. Covering everything from events being held at inaccessible locations to ableist comments.

    Valuable series! The suggestions of ADA compliant meeting places are repeated many times and are definitely something anyone organizing a meeting or conference needs to take into account. More usage of transcripts/notes for the hearing disabled would be a fantastic move as well.

  460. 460
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I love Big Black’s cover of Cheap Trick’s He’s A Whore.

    Steve Albini recorded (Do not call him a producer!) one of Cheap Trick’s late period albums.

  461. 461
    The Mellow Monkey

    I’ve decided I’m going to celebrate my country’s Independence Day by drinking vodka.

    I’m not sure what it signifies, but I feel that it’s the right choice at this time.

  462. 462
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Happy birthday, Patricia.

  463. 463
    Patricia, OM

    Nerd – Good thing you’ve got that aged grog covered. Nobunny but a trained scientist should handle that stuff.

  464. 464
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Cipher:

    You didn’t misread. I comment a lot, but there is very little substance (unlike many, many others!).

  465. 465
    Patricia, OM

    Thanks Beatrice!

  466. 466
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Heh. I have a bottle of Tito’s in the freezer.

  467. 467
  468. 468
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Goo Goo Muck

  469. 469
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Surfin Dead

  470. 470
    RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospital

    If people at ERV need an example of what privilege is, the thing happening on Twitter sure fits.

    If someone makes a hashtag to badmouth another group, and that group light-heartedly mocks that hashtag, and the first group thinks that’s at all comparable to actual bullying, that’s privilege.

  471. 471
  472. 472
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Damn, I swear that having the kid was much less trouble than preparing her 5th birthday.
    I’m also pretty sure that my mum won’t let grandma leave the house and come here. Until tomorrow she’ll have her talked out of it.

  473. 473
    Patricia, OM

    Janine – That Tito’s Firecracker Punch looks even better than sangria. Is that what you’re having?

  474. 474
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    So, wait. Do I have the day off today because it’s the day we celebrate the founding of the US or because it’s Patricia’s birthday?

    I’d much rather celebrate Patricia’s birthday. MORE SPANKINGS, LESS FIREWORKS!

    (Happy birthday, P! ♥!)

  475. 475
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    No, Patricia. Tito’s is my shot glass vodka. I use the cheap stuff for my mixing.

    But perhaps I should try that punch.

  476. 476
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    If reading the Bible is a good way to turn a believer into an atheist, this woman has a good start:

    Cassandra Belle Tolley, in addition to spending eight years in jail, has been ordered to read the Old Testament book of Job and write a summary of it for Circuit Court Judge Michael Nettles, according to CBS Charlotte.
    The 28-year-old received the sentence late last month, which also includes five years of probation and substance-abuse counseling, after she crashed her car while intoxicated, severely injuring two people. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jail-time-bible-study-s-woman-odd-drunk-driving-punishment-article-1.1107446#ixzz1zgT2s8wg

    I haven’t yet read the Book of Job, but I’m wondering what a summary of it would look like…

  477. 477
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    God and Satan are trash talking each other and end up having a barroom bet…

  478. 478
    Patricia, OM

    Giliell – That sucks, and it’s not fair to your child.
    I’m in a battle with my mother right now too. She’s being soooo fucking stoopid over my dads death that I want to throttle her. Come sit by me and we can bitch together & share a walnetto.

  479. 479
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Job? The book about how gawd is an asshole and into squashing you because he feels like it?

  480. 480
    Patricia, OM

    Gawd proves once again what a swell loving father he is…

  481. 481
    Thomathy, Such A 'Mo

    As I said in the Higgs Thread, ‘Bubbles! Bubbles for everyone!’
    ______

    On a completely separate note, I was reading Ed Brayton to catch up with certain recent FTB news and was surprised to learn about Taslima Nazrin and her stance on pornography and sex work, as well as all the problems so many people have with her stance.

    Holy Fuck! I didn’t read No Country for Women before, but I’m reading it now and I really don’t like Taslima very much. I realise that she’s taking a particularly narrow tack for discussing what she’s discussing, but I really fucking disagree with her. In an enraged, kind of incredibly disgusted way. I actually don’t like her for her stance on these issues. She seems incredibly naive on the topics and issues within them as well as narrow-minded and entirely dismissive of everyone who isn’t a stereotypical, cis-gendered heterosexual man or woman.

    I know for a fact that there are people who post regularly here who have posted over at Taslima’s blog to voice their disagreements or to argue, but I’m not sure I’ve seen any discussion take place on it here (though, admittedly, I often miss out on a lot of TET). I’m actually surprised to see that PZ hasn’t posted an opinion on the whole thing altogether, but that may be because another FTB blogger (Greta Christina, if memory serves) has taken Taslima to task and continues, even, to argue against her veritably insane stance.

    For those who have been involved in that as commenters who participate here in TET, what’s your overall impression of the ‘discussion’ so far? Is it anywhere close to being resolved? And is anyone aware of Taslima giving over any ground on her stance to reason of any sort?

    I find this topic quite interesting and I’m surprised to see that it has gone on for so long under my radar and generally without comment. I understand that it’s a very civil ‘discussion’ on Taslima’s part and her detractors, but, really? It’s kind of a big deal, or at least I think it is. I’m not wrong, am I? I really am small-caps enraged over this.

  482. 482
    Ing

    Hrm. I found a blog series all about issues of disabled people WRT atheism. Covering everything from events being held at inaccessible locations to ableist comments.

    Anyone do a deconstruction of the Bullshit episode yet?

  483. 483
    Patricia, OM

    So Tony after reading these summaries of Job are you going to read it?

  484. 484
    Oenotrian

    Many happy returns of the day, Patricia! As it happens, I just finished bottling the latest batch of limoncello. It’s a lovely shade of yellow this time (I used a few more lemons than strictly necessary). Sending you a bottle through the USB. It’ll need to chill in the freezer for a bit, but it should be good by evening.

    ——

    Job is the one where Satan makes an appearance as a prosecuting attorney/solicitor and Yahweh and some other, unnamed, gods decide to punish a mortal just to see how he reacts. The “moral” of the story is supposed to be something like “shit happens” and that we shouldn’t assume that when it does, it’s because we’ve done something bad. In other words, Yahweh’s an asshole.

  485. 485
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Patricia, if it is not asking anything that you do not want to reveal, what do you mean by that? As you know from your own experience, the death of a long time partner can effect different people in different ways.

    Both of my grandfathers outlived their spouses. One carried on despite missing her. He also did not talk much about it, because men did not talk about that. The other one missed her greatly. So much so that he withdrew from everyone and waited to die. But he entered his eighties still in very good health (And coming from a family that has a lot of people living into their nineties and hitting the century mark.) and he could not take it any more.

    What is she doing?

  486. 486
    Walton

    I’ve decided I’m going to celebrate my country’s Independence Day by drinking vodka.

    I’m not sure what it signifies, but I feel that it’s the right choice at this time.

    Vodka? Communism!

    *wanders off singing L’Internationale*

  487. 487
    Walton

    (Of course we don’t celebrate Independence Day here. This is England. But I’m drinking wine anyway.)

  488. 488
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    *wanders off singing L’Internationale*

    Tang Dynasty

  489. 489
    Patricia, OM

    Audley – My birthday is an almost/tradition, useful for spanking, hurling, wallowing, blasphemy, abominations, sheep and swine abuse… well you get the hint. Clearly just about everyone here has been to Singapore. *smirk*

  490. 490
    Sili

    (Of course we don’t celebrate Independence Day here.

    But you should.

  491. 491
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Patricia, here is a party song for you!

    Filopino Box Spring Hog

  492. 492
    Irène Delse, on dry land among seabirds

    @ Thomathy:

    On a completely separate note, I was reading Ed Brayton to catch up with certain recent FTB news and was surprised to learn about Taslima Nazrin and her stance on pornography and sex work, as well as all the problems so many people have with her stance.

    Holy Fuck! I didn’t read No Country for Women before, but I’m reading it now and I really don’t like Taslima very much. I realise that she’s taking a particularly narrow tack for discussing what she’s discussing, but I really fucking disagree with her. In an enraged, kind of incredibly disgusted way. I actually don’t like her for her stance on these issues. She seems incredibly naive on the topics and issues within them as well as narrow-minded and entirely dismissive of everyone who isn’t a stereotypical, cis-gendered heterosexual man or woman.

    On what topics do you find Taslima Nasreen wrong or narrow-minded? She doesn’t only blog about pornography and sex work, but also about religious oppression, about patriarchal culture, about the ways this kind of society condones or even promotes the abuse of women and children (including boys, as in her post on circumcision)…

    As for “naive”, hem, I doubt we’re talking about the same person. As a gynaecologist and social worker in a third world country, she obviously have a lot of experience of women’s issues! And I can understand why this experience would inform her ideas about sex work.

  493. 493
    Sili

    I haven’t yet read the Book of Job, but I’m wondering what a summary of it would look like…

    I wouldn’t like to read it on its own, but a good deconstruction of the sources (I seem to recall there are at least two layers) and some tasty exegesis are right up my alley.

    (Almost done reading a thorough exegesis of Daniel.)

  494. 494
    Sili

    On what topics do you find Taslima Nasreen wrong or narrow-minded?

    The present consensus seems to be that she’s very much a “My way and my way only” feminist and skeptic. She’s not big on different strokes for different folks, and she doesn’t engage with critique when such is offered.

  495. 495
    Patricia, OM

    Janine – I’d prefer to email you the answer, it’s not very pretty.

  496. 496
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Understood.

  497. 497
    Sili

    God and Satan are trash talking each other and end up having a barroom bet…

    Not really. You make it sound like Satan is somehow God’s equal, while the book makes it clear that he is nothing more than a sorta accountant in the Heavenly bureaucracy. He does nothing save make suggestions that God then acts on.

  498. 498
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Esteleth @450:
    the link you provided was interesting.
    Among other things, this caught my eye:

    When there’s a person in a wheelchair in the community (and online “community” can be most everyone) and someone says that if they had to be in a wheelchair, they’d kill themselves, it should be treated as if a white man announced that if he woke in the morning to find his skin turned brown, he’d kill himself.

  499. 499
    Walton

    Tang Dynasty

    That was an awesome version.

    But you should.

    Never!

    (Though – having had enough wine for this evening – I’m currently commemorating the lamentable occasion on which the Americans wasted perfectly good tea by throwing it into Boston Harbour, by drinking some tea. Green tea with lemon, in fact.)

  500. 500
    Walton

    (Sorry. The Walton is being very silly, and should not drink wine.)

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