#INR2 … done »« Why I am an atheist – Joe

Let them have coathangers

He had to be named Bubba. He just had to fill every possible stereotype of the Southern good ol’ boy, the shallow, narrow-minded redneck who treats his women like he treats his dogs. Only he’s a state representative, elected to serve in the Mississippi congress — and Bubba Carpenter is proud to have stripped medical services from the women of his state.

We have literally stopped abortion in the state of Mississippi. Three blocks from the Capitol sits the only abortion clinic in the state of Mississippi. A bill was drafted. It said, if you would perform an abortion in the state of Mississippi, you must be a certified OB/GYN and you must have admitting privileges to a hospital. Anybody here in the medical field knows how hard it is to get admitting privileges to a hospital…

It’s going to be challenged, of course, in the Supreme Court and all — but literally, we stopped abortion in the state of Mississippi, legally, without having to– Roe vs. Wade. So we’ve done that. I was proud of it. The governor signed it into law. And of course, there you have the other side. They’re like, ‘Well, the poor pitiful women that can’t afford to go out of state are just going to start doing them at home with a coat hanger.’ That’s what we’ve heard over and over and over.

But hey, you have to have moral values. You have to start somewhere, and that’s what we’ve decided to do. This became law and the governor signed it, and I think for one time, we were first in the nation in the state of Mississippi.

“You have to have moral values.” I agree. I truly wish Bubba Carpenter had some.

It’s not just coathangers. Poor women will also use clorox, turpentine, quinine, misoprostol, and back-alley butchers. They’ll bleed out, they’ll have perforated bowels, they’ll suffer unbearable agony, they’ll die. These are “moral values” at work. And note that he even acknowledges the other inequity: if they’re wealthy enough to go out of state (read: Republican), they won’t have to worry about the coathanger. This is open warfare on both women and the poor.

Bubba let slip the naked truth about the Republican agenda. The video of his statement is on youtube, but I suspect it won’t be for long: they’re scrambling to hide it away right now. I suppose it’s good that they exhibit a little shame, but it seems to be embarrassment that they were caught openly expressing what they think, not shame at their callousness.

Comments

  1. shouldbeworking says

    You made one serious error. Bubba treats his dogs better than women.

  2. laurentweppe says

    I suppose it’s good that they exhibit a little shame, but it seems to be embarrassment that they were caught openly expressing what they think, not shame at their callousness.

    It’s not shame, it’s self-preservation instinct kicking it.

  3. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    You have to start somewhere

    If that is what you start with, I wonder just how horrible the end will be.

    I wonder how many rocks the republicans had to look under to find this fine specimen of human roach. Or is it that they don’t have the decency to crawl back under them anymore.

    Ugh.

  4. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I don’t think he knows the meaning of “moral values”.

    To him “moral values” means icky thinks like women, homosexuality, abortion, and other things he doesn’t like is well hidden from view. Never Jebus says his prayers should be in the closet, not gays….

  5. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, more coffee, Never[mind] Jebus last sentence #6.

  6. consciousness razor says

    On a related note, the Missouri legislature passed an anti-contraception bill in a fuck-you to Obama. I’m not sure if Nixon (the Democratic governor) will sign it or not, but that may not matter:

    Friday’s final vote was 29-5 in the Senate and 105-33 in the House. The Senate vote is a veto-proof majority, but the House vote falls four votes short.

  7. raven says

    Mississippi teen pregnancy rate highest in U.S.: CDC | Reuters
    ww.reuters.com/…/2012/…/us-usa-health-teen-pregnancy-…
    10 Apr 2012 – ATLANTA (Reuters) –

    Mississippi has the highest teen birthrate in the nation

    while New Hampshire has the lowest, the Centers for Disease …

    How about them Mississippi moral values.

    Mississippi has the highest teenage birthrate in the nation.

    This is an important statistic because it is highly correlated and causal with lifelong poverty. Mississippi is also one of the poorest and most backward states in the USA.

    IIRC, they also have one of the poorest welfare systems in the USA. Typical. Once you are born, they could care less.

    Those are Mississippi “moral values”. High rates of teenage pregnancy, high rates of poverty, and child poverty.

  8. raven says

    To state the obvious, this law doesn’t stop people from Mississippi from getting abortions. Which BTW, had virtually already stopped, due to them having one clinic for the whole state.

    The rich people will just fly somewhere else.

    The middle class will fly or drive out of state.

    The poor people will be the ones who suffer.

  9. redwood says

    Yes, but Raven, they don’t have abortion now. That makes up for all those negatives.

    Time to cry now for the stupidity of people like Bubba.

  10. raven says

    Poverty rate highest in Mississippi
    McClatchy
    ww.mcclatchydc.com/…/poverty-rate-highest-in-mississippi.html

    29 Sep 2010 – Mississippi ranks highest in the nation for the number of people living in poverty. The Census Bureau’s 2009 American Community Survey used …

    Doesn’t seem to bother the people of Mississippi that they are poor and backward. Must be a fundie xian thing.

  11. totalretard says

    When will Bubba pass the remaining legislation to legalize all other forms of premeditated murder?

  12. rickschauer says

    “Agnotology” -The Making and Unmaking of Ignorance- by Robert N. Proctor and Londa Schiebinger. Order your copy today…because it takes a nice long look at why these folks are so frikken ignorant. And it does it with can’t put it down, page-turning, clarity!

  13. Aquaria says

    This is one of those laws that overreaches in telling doctors who can do what and how, that isn’t applied to other procedures/physicians. The AMA needs to challenge it. but I doubt the local chapter will do so. The doctors in Mississippi are as stupid from christardery as the rest of the state.

  14. Rey Fox says

    They’re freaking out, at least at the national level, that one of their minions had the gall to use the c-word. Apparently there is a level of brazenness and honesty that is unacceptable.

  15. says

    I suggest anyone named Bubba who lives in Mississippi is not likely to be strongly in favor of women’s rights.

    From PZ’s post Mississippi’s shame:

    As for supporting life, Mississippi’s infant mortality rate is the worst of any state in the nation. The number of babies who die as infants in Mississippi is double the number of abortions annually.

    [You were informed that you were confined to TZT. Now you are banned. --pzm]

  16. says

    Aquaria:

    This is one of those laws that overreaches in telling doctors who can do what and how….

    Which has been the exact argument against single-payer healthcare– we can’t have the government telling patients and their doctors what to do!

    Apparently, it only applies if those patients are men. Big surprise, right?

  17. raven says

    Lacking Health Insurance, More Women Turning to Do-It-Yourself …

    ww.rhrealitycheck.org/…/banning-federal-funds-abortions-yourself…

    17 Aug 2010 – Now, experts note, we are beginning to see women take matters into their own hands to obtain a needed abortion. One example is increasing …

    There is an increase in Do It Yourself abortions in the USA. Partly due to money but mostly due to lack of access for many women.

    Usually these are medical abortions with RU-486 plus a prostaglandin. I know there is an underground market for these drugs in the USA, but don’t know how widespread it is.

    FWIW, many studies have shown that in countries without legal abortion and countries with all have the roughly the same abortion rates. The difference is, of course, in how many women also end up butchered or dead.

  18. A. R says

    What the the fuck is this shit? I think I’m going to go into a corner and cry now.

  19. raven says

    Aspiration Procedure – Abortion Clinic NY – RU486 Pill Doctor – Early …
    ww.earlyabortion.com/early-abortion-methods.htm
    There are currently ads on the internet that you can get mifepristone or RU486 online. THESE ARE NOT REAL. There is no legitimate way to get RU486 or …

    women on web
    ww.womenonweb.org/
    Buy abortion pills, mifepristone online, misoprostol online, Women on Web … These medicines, called Mifeprisone, (also known as Mifepristone, RU486, RU or …

    can i order ru486 online, am 7 weeks pregnant & i dread travelling
    ww.justanswer.com/…/2sxau-order-ru486-online-weeks-pregnant-d…

    22 Nov 2009 – Picture. Expert: mysticdoc replied 905 days and 12 hours ago. Hi there,. Yes you can buy RU 486 (also known as misoprostol) online here: …

    If you put “buy RU-486 online” in google, the expected sites come up.

    I have no idea how many of those sites will sell you the real drug. I suspect the publicly available “RU-486″ is as real as online Viagra, Xanax, or Oxycontin.

  20. mikmik says

    One of these days someone will charge these fuckbrained assholes with negligent homicide or conspiracy to murder.

    Last time I read any stats, in the 80’s, 270,000 women died worldwide from unsafe abortions. No it’s about 70,000, mostly due to increased use of contraception. Hmmmm, guess the pope is due in the Hague to face mass murder charges, given the world was rational.

    Just to add to what raven @22 posted, I came across 70,000 Women Die Annually From Unsafe Abortions, Guttmacher Study Finds, which also states (bolding mine):

    According to the report, 40% of women live in nations with highly restrictive abortion laws (Reuters, 10/13). The report found that 19 countries have “significantly reduced restrictions in their abortion laws” since 1997, and three countries have “substantially increased legal restrictions,” the Christian Science Monitor reports. Ninety-two percent of women in Africa live under highly restrictive abortion laws, while the figure is 97% in Latin America, the Monitor reports (Christian Science Monitor, 10/13).”In almost all developed countries, abortion is safe and legal,” Camp said, adding that “in much of the developing world, abortion remains highly restricted and unsafe abortion is common and continues to damage women’s health and threaten their survival” (Crary, AP/San Francisco Chronicle, 10/14)

    Fuck, these sick freak psychopaths defy believability. There is no word that can express my contempt for them.

  21. StevoR says

    Million Paws Walk in Adelaide today too.

    And the Coathnager lobby that like to call ‘emelves “pro-life”

    FUCK EM!

    Fuck ‘em with decayed porcupines and red hot pokers!

    I’m drunk and I’m priviledged and I’m human thus fallible all hell but fuck those douchcanoes and make it hurt!

    Because those evil, stinking sacks o’ shits deserve better and no less.

    What the Fuck!

  22. mikmik says

    Lest I forget to mention my stunned fuck country-folk,
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/810145–abortion-don-t-ask-don-t-tell

    The manager, who asked to speak without attribution, said a chill surrounds maternal health programs since the Conservative government declared in April that no foreign aid money will fund abortions.

    “It’s scary to articulate. Someone could overhear you and write down that you support a woman’s right to choose and then funding could be cut to our partner agency,” the program manager said.

    Even here in Alberta, the only reason the ruling Conservative party didn’t get over 90% of the seats in the last election, was because an even more right wing, AGW denialist party, took a chunk out of their usual winnings. This shite has got to stop.

  23. laurentweppe says

    The rich people will just fly somewhere else.
    The middle class will fly or drive out of state.
    The poor people will be the ones who suffer.

    The rich people will not fly: they will give a bribe to doctors so they pretend they had to deal with a miscarriage.
    *
    I remember an series of article about abortions in Poland: among them, the wife of an openly “anti-abortion” gynecologist told the reporter that when her husband wanted her to abort a pregnancy he would just send her to a colleague and count on him to do the job and shut up in the name of corporatism.
    ***
    As an aside

    I’m drunk and I’m priviledged and I’m human thus fallible all hell but fuck those douchcanoes and make it hurt!

    StevoR has a gift: he manages to look like a douche even when he’s right.

  24. sundiver says

    Well, mikmik, an expression Christopher Moore used in his novel on JC, “Festering pile of camel snot” is almost adequate, even though it has five words instead of just one. Does that help?

  25. Gregory Greenwood says

    But hey, you have to have moral values. You have to start somewhere, and that’s what we’ve decided to do

    Why doesn’t it surprise me that xian Republicans, of which Bubba is a particularly vile example, choose to ‘start’ their ‘moral values’ with a mass of innocent women needlessly dead in the name of fundie ignorance and bigotry?

    And the scary part? Smug, emapthy-free monsters like Bubba aren’t a rarity – they are two a penny. Indeed, it seems that they make up the bulk of the religious Right in the US. It just happens that this particular one has crawled into the spotlight of public office where we can all see just how repugnant and disgusting it really is.

    It doesn’t exactly fill you with respect for your fellow humans, does it?

  26. Rob in Memphis says

    Hang on a second, the quote above leaves something out. This quote:

    This became law and the governor signed it, and I think for one time, we were first in the nation in the state of Mississippi.

    should actually read:

    This became law and the governor signed it, and I think for one time, we were first in the nation in the state of Mississippi for doing something good. (Emphasis added.)

    Holy shit. If I didn’t have a headache, I’d be slamming my head onto my desk right now. Then again, since I already have a headache…

    (And yes, I get the irony, being in Tennessee and all, home of the famous infamous “Monkey Bill,” “Don’t Say Gay” bill, and the “Gateway Sexual Activity” bill, but I’m not from ’round these parts and hope to relocating in the near future.)

  27. Louis says

    #1 has this sorry shitty state of affairs summed up well.

    Moral values.

    I…nope, better start drinking, the rage is back. I shall battle it with the beer monkey.

    Louis

  28. Rob in Memphis says

    ^^The “…for doing something good” is in the snippet on YouTube, but the article omitted it, even though it’s right there in the video!

  29. says

    Aren’t TRAP laws – targeted against abortion services – illegal? Like another form of legal harassment that anti-SLAPP laws protect against?

    Someone needs to pass a law that all doctors and medical services must abide by the same standards.

  30. raven says

    BTW, the abortion rate for fundie xians is higher than for normal people.

    These laws are just another way for them to fulfill one of their three main sacraments, the hypocrisy one.

  31. says

    More recent statistics: “Real-world results of a ban on abortions.”

    First person testimony: “Why I provide abortions.”

    … seeing the repercussions of desperation walk, and crawl, and be carried through our emergency room door three, four, five times, every night for four years. Each night we would admit to the wards of University Hospital in Little Rock (a fairly small hospital, as metropolitan hospitals go) girls and women with raging fevers, extraordinary uterine and pelvic infections, enormous blood loss, and a multitude of serious injuries of the pelvic and intra-abdominal organs as a result of illegal and self-induced abortions. During the years 1970 through the end of my residency in June, 1972 we did in the same hospital perhaps twenty to thirty safe, legal abortions a month on girls and women of various ages for mostly elective reasons. The contrast between the outcomes for these two sets of women was dramatic….

    From the comments:

    Our goal is to record the name of every person working in the baby slaughter business across the United States of America so, as in the Nuremberg Trials in Nazi Germany, we can punish these people for slaughtering God’s children.

  32. raven says

    Religious school grads likelier to have abortions – Health – Health …
    ww.msnbc.msn.com/…/religious-school-grads-likelier-have-abortio…

    1 Jun 2009 – … who attend or have graduated from private religious schools are more likely to obtain abortions than their peers from public schools. …
    social ties among their students and families, so abortion rates could be higher due to …

    Says it all.

    Chances are high that the womenfolk of Bubba and the other crackers of the Mississippi government have had a lot of abortions.

  33. laurentweppe says

    BTW, the abortion rate for fundie xians is higher than for normal people.
    These laws are just another way for them to fulfill one of their three main sacraments, the hypocrisy one.

    Actually, I’d call that a sliver of decency on their part: they don’t use contraception, they don’t want kids, so instead of making kids then punishing them all their life for the crime of existing, they go through an abortion: had I be an anti-abortionist I’d have called that merciful killing.

  34. says

    I would fucking think so but they seem to be getting away with it.

    The Conservative party passed legislation re-criminalizing abortion in the 80s, but only from the lower house (Parliament). It was big news in Canada. The bill was voted down by the Senate almost immediately. In the intervening week, a 20-year-old student in Waterloo bled to death trying to perform an abortion on herself. It was the first such case in years. Coincidence? I think not.

  35. Pteryxx says

    Mississippi has an unemployment rate of 10.3% (9th worse in the nation), consistently ranks in the lowest in education, 17.6% of Mississippians have no health insurance, and 21.8% of its citizens live below the poverty level. Yet, these yahoos think it’s important to focus on further degrading women by making it impossible to get an abortion instead of taking real action to improve the living conditions in their state. This is also the state that has the strictest abortion TRAP laws of any state. And, this is the state that has only one remaining abortion clinic, the Jackson Women’s Health Organization.

    from DailyKos during the personhood-bill scuffle. Source

    The National Network of Abortion Funds, whose fundraising bowl-a-thons were last month, helps cover travel costs and abortion expenses for women in need. There’s no specific fund for Mississippi’s only clinic, Jackson Women’s Health; however they did tell me the George Tiller Memorial Abortion Fund exists specifically to cover rural areas nationwide that lack reasonable access to a clinic, and they work with Mississippi. Donations can be earmarked for that fund or for the Southeast region.

    National Network of Abortion Funds
    http://www.fundabortionnow.org

    Jackson Women’s Health also takes donations directly.

    re TRAP laws… they’re absolutely legal harassment, but the strategy’s to chip away by getting away with bigger and bigger encroachments that survive legal challenges. Planned Parenthood’s got a dozen or more lawsuits in progress that I know of. Part of the strategy is just to sap abortion providers of money through endless lawsuits.

    This particular TRAP law, requiring abortion providers to have local admitting privileges, is designed to disqualify providers who fly in from other states. Why do they travel instead of working locally? So their homes and lives aren’t threatened as easily by anti-abortion terrorists.

    Similar TRAP laws (requiring local admitting privileges) are already law in Arizona and pending in Indiana and Tennessee.

    http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/updates/index.html#HospitalPrivileges

  36. Pteryxx says

    Mississippi has an unemployment rate of 10.3% (9th worse in the nation), consistently ranks in the lowest in education, 17.6% of Mississippians have no health insurance, and 21.8% of its citizens live below the poverty level. Yet, these yahoos think it’s important to focus on further degrading women by making it impossible to get an abortion instead of taking real action to improve the living conditions in their state. This is also the state that has the strictest abortion TRAP laws of any state. And, this is the state that has only one remaining abortion clinic, the Jackson Women’s Health Organization.

    from DailyKos during the personhood-bill scuffle. Source

    The National Network of Abortion Funds, whose fundraising bowl-a-thons were last month, helps cover travel costs and abortion expenses for women in need. There’s no specific fund for Mississippi’s only clinic, Jackson Women’s Health; however they did tell me the George Tiller Memorial Abortion Fund exists specifically to cover rural areas nationwide that lack reasonable access to a clinic, and they work with Mississippi. Donations can be earmarked for that fund or for the Southeast region.

    National Network of Abortion Funds
    www. fundabortionnow. org

    Jackson Women’s Health also takes donations directly.

    re TRAP laws… they’re absolutely legal harassment, but the strategy’s to chip away by getting away with bigger and bigger encroachments that survive legal challenges. Planned Parenthood’s got a dozen or more lawsuits in progress that I know of. Part of the strategy is just to sap abortion providers of money through endless lawsuits.

    This particular TRAP law, requiring abortion providers to have local admitting privileges, is designed to disqualify providers who fly in from other states. Why do they travel instead of working locally? So their homes and lives aren’t threatened as easily by anti-abortion terrorists.

    Similar TRAP laws (requiring local admitting privileges) are already law in Arizona and pending in Indiana and Tennessee.

    http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/updates/index.html#HospitalPrivileges

  37. Pteryxx says

    …Okay, with all due respect, fundabortionnow’s site should NOT be getting caught in the bloody spam filter.

  38. Pteryxx says

    Oh heck, check out the Arizona TRAP law from Guttmacher:

    (ENACTED) ARIZONA: In April, Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signed an omnibus abortion measure, which includes a provision that requires a provider who performs a surgical abortion to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles of the abortion facility. Current law requires an abortion provider to have admitting privileges at a hospital in the state. The bill, which also includes provisions on clinic regulations, limits on abortion at a specific gestational age, ultrasound, medication abortion and abortion counseling, goes into effect later this year.

  39. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    It’s gone from a fight for rights to a fight for life. What’s with these people? They lack any sense of empathy (no, by now, I don’t count that which they feel for those who are just like them), they have a screwed sense of priorities, and they are, overall, lacking ANYTHING besides the DNA that would mark them as human and not just Pod People.

  40. eddyline says

    Of all the issues in politics, I think that this is the most immediate. I just sent off a donation to PP; does anyone know of any organizations local in MS which could benefit from a contribution? This needs to be stopped but I’m not local to the area, and politicians who think they are “serving a higher power” don’t care about their constituencies, so adverse letters usually just confirm to them that they’re on the right track.

  41. sadunlap says

    The interesting part of the video, the line about “You have to start somewhere,” is the most damaging, especially in the context of the admission that well-off women can go outside the state. What, then, does “You have to start somewhere” mean? Does it mean proceeding to ban contraception? Or will right-wing nuts at the federal level amend the Mann act to include obtaining an abortion? Will they add international travel restrictions too? Inquiring minds want to know.

    What if these attack dogs of the right start biting Republicans with money? that would be interesting.

  42. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    Fuck ‘em with decayed porcupines and red hot pokers!

    May I suggest a more ironically fitting punishment in this particular case :

    They should be fucked with rusty coathangers.

  43. Pteryxx says

    I just sent off a donation to PP; does anyone know of any organizations local in MS which could benefit from a contribution?

    The Jackson Women’s Health clinic basically is the entire abortion access movement in the state. Last I heard, the owner’s planning to file suit to stop this TRAP law. They take donations both for their own patients’ financial need, and for their action fund, as I recall from speaking to their operators.

    http://www.jacksonwomenshealth.com/

    Jackson Women’s Health Organization owner Diane Derzis has threatened to sue should Bryant sign the bill. According to Derzis, all three providers at the clinic are OB-GYNs and the clinic already has a transfer agreement with a local hospital which allows any patient who has a complication to be admitted automatically. The law was created solely to make a standard that couldn’t be attained, since hospitals have been turning down privilege requests for two of the three doctors. “If you mandate something that can’t be accomplished, I don’t believe that’s constitutional,” Derzis told Politico.

    source

  44. eddyline says

    They should be fucked with rusty coathangers.

    Yeah…could pretty much spot weld about thirty together; it would make a pretty good faux-porcupine….

  45. mythbri says

    And here I thought that The Handmaid’s Tale was a cautionary one – not an instruction manual.

    Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.

    Mississippi does just fine killing actual babies – you know, the ones that are born and are people. Apparently innocent life is only innocent once it leaves the birth canal. And, well, the lives of women are hardly innocent, since they’ve had teh nasty secks. It clearly matters not to ol’ Bubba here if they’re added to the body count as well.

  46. eddyline says

    The Jackson Women’s Health clinic basically is the entire abortion access movement in the state. Last I heard, the owner’s planning to file suit to stop this TRAP law. They take donations both for their own patients’ financial need, and for their action fund, as I recall from speaking to their operators.

    Thanks, Pteryxx; I’ll have to call tomorrow since there’s no email. I guess for obvious reasons; they probably have enough to do with the fanatics down there.

  47. mythbri says

    Dammit, the rage-induced typos are tiresome. I mean to say “an innocent life is only innocent BEFORE it leaves the birth canal.” Sigh.

  48. Drolfe says

    [OT]

    Rob in Memphis, the Anti-Hand-Holding bill is the height of hilarity! Everyone, if you haven’t heard about this please google it. It might provide you with a little relief from the soul-crushing despair that results from the main thrust of the OP.

  49. raven says

    “Pro-Life” Mississippi Has Highest Infant Mortality Rate in the Nation
    ww.feministe.us/…/pro-life-mississippi-has-highest-infant-mortality-…

    22 Apr 2007 – Mississippi now has the highest infant mortality rate in the country (and other “pro-life” states in the South aren’t doing much better).

    Mississippi has the highest infant mortality rate in the USA. I’m sure the maternal mortality rate is equally as high.

    They have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the USA.

    The highest rate of poverty and child poverty.

    None of that seems to bother them. Having an in state abortion clinic sure does though.

  50. says

    This news might have been marginally palatable if these bastards weren’t also playing politics to make access to contraception difficult and prohibitive, and pushing to make sure that the next generation in their country gets crap sex education.

  51. says

    How do conservative republicans find women that are willing to have sex with them? This, seriously, puzzles me.

    I doubt there are any right wing females reading this blog, but if you’re out there – there actually are men who won’t abuse you like that. For that matter, there are women who won’t hate you, either, if that’s the way you roll. Shit, I’d even make you a sandwich if it makes you happy. You don’t have to put up with abusive creeps like representative bubba.

  52. Rob in Memphis says

    @Drolfe:

    I like Colbert’s take on it. IRL, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. IIRC, TN is also in the top 10 states with highest teen pregnancy rates. This is just going to make it much, much worse. :-(

    If it’s Haslam’s intent to make the people of Tennessee look like a bunch of backwards redneck morons, he’s doing a great job. (As a member of the Democratic minority here, I certainly didn’t vote for him.)

  53. Pteryxx says

    Re Mississippi’s infant mortality rate… it gets worse. The infant mortality rate AMONG WHITES matches the rest of the US. The place has the worst infant mortality in the nation solely because of racial disparity.

    Rachel Maddow covered this on May 2, including that Mississippi just fired the doctor who headed their State Board of Health, though he was trying to *address* the racial disparities in care, because he was too pro-choice for them.

    Maddow interviews Dr. Carl Reddix, an OB/GYN that was just ousted from the Mississippi board of health for apparently being too pro-abortion for the new right-wing players in the government (who are apparently to the right even of Haley Barbour, the right wing anti-abortion former governor of Mississippi who appointed Dr. Reddix to the board originally).

    The problem? Dr. Reddix agreed to back up a clinic that provides abortions. As in, if something goes wrong during a procedure and they have to transport to a better equipped hospital, Dr. Reddix agreed to provide care for the patient.

    Quote source: http://bloodyshow.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/rachel-maddow-on-racial-disparities-in-infant-mortality/

    Transcript for the Maddow show:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47356160/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/t/rachel-maddow-show-wednesday-may

  54. kayden says

    To be fair to Bubba, if the good people of Mississippi are okay with draconian laws to prevent abortion, while I find this deplorable, what can I do? For some reason, the majority of White people in the USA are completely comfortable with the Republican party, its objectives, its “morals”, its laws. If Romney is elected, we can expect these types of laws to be passed in Congress (I assume that if Romney wins, he’ll get a Republican House and Senate). Scary times ahead.

  55. Drolfe says

    [OT]

    Rob in Memphis,

    Yeah, IRL it is pretty depressing too. (I too was thinking of linking The Word.) It’s kind of like “TRAP for Sex Ed” since really the idea behind fining sex ed teachers for broaching certain topics is basically the same — make is hard enough to be a sex ed teacher and no one will do it. (I.e., teaching sex ed while studiously not mentioning hand-holding, hugging, or kissing, or other unapproved gateway activities must make it miserable enough to not even be worth the effort for all involved. Ignorance wins!)

  56. Gregory Greenwood says

    The next time an accommodationist opines that there is no reason for we nasty Gnus to criticise the ridiculous character of theistic beliefs, because why shouldn’t they believe what they like? And believing silly things doesn’t hurt anyone, I must remember to mention Bubba.

    Maybe such delusions are largely harmless if they are just personal beliefs, but it almost never stays that way. Sooner or later, attempts are made to pass laws to force others to live according to the delusions of the pious. Believing the ridiculous about talking flammable foliage and invisible sky fairies establishes the type of toxically anti-rational mindset that allows people to simply ignore evidence in favour of their own delusions – this is the basis of AGW denialism and the assorted forms of creationist blather, and also leads to people like Bubba ignoring the mountains of evidence that suggests that ignorance only sex education and the restriction of access to abortion services actually leads to higher rates of underage pregnancy and infant mortality.

    Believing the ridiculous not only harms people, it kills people, and does so in large numbers.

  57. says

    Well, in Poland it’s quite common for Ob/Gyns to tell women that they can’t have an abortion ’cause it’s against the law, duh, but can you come back after the office hour and bring some money.
    Some of them believe in your right to choose, some of them believe in a tax-free extra income.
    It largely means that most women don’t have to go back to coathanger times, but some of them obiously fall through the cracks.

  58. petejohn says

    This makes me deeply, deeply ill. That this man is proud of his own evil adds to my nausea.

  59. petejohn says

    @41

    From the comments:

    Our goal is to record the name of every person working in the baby slaughter business across the United States of America so, as in the Nuremberg Trials in Nazi Germany, we can punish these people for slaughtering God’s children.

    This is so freaking chilling. The person obviously did not read the original argument. These people simply do not understand that abortions are going to happen regardless, and that the only reasonable thing to do is provide safe abortions. If they want to eliminate abortions, then they should be pushing easily accessible contraception and educating people on ways to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancy. Instead they just say “fuck all of that” and take a fundamentally evil stance, condemning women who seek abortions and the doctors who perform the thankless task. These people are the very definition of trash.

  60. raven says

    I think it is time to reboot the “Jane Project” (a pre-Roe v Wade effort to help poor women obtain proper medical abortions); read more about it here.

    Probably already happening.

    Don’t expect a lot of publicity though. It’s a good way to get death threats from some of the craziest and evilest parts of our society. These are the xian terrorists in the news from time and time, often when an MD is assassinated or a family planning clinic bombed.

  61. Drolfe says

    Petejohn,

    These people simply do not understand that abortions are going to happen regardless, and that the only reasonable thing to do is provide safe abortions

    Hahaha, you said reasonable. We’re way past that, are we not? Barriers to education and contraception and sterilization on-demand are all as you mention rational solutions to abortion, if abortion even is a problem. And yet, these are not part of the anti-abortion policy agenda.

  62. steve1 says

    I was on Bubba’s Facebook page and he is not much on education either.
    When he posts something about his work as a state representative it is usually about cutting something in education. See below for a couple of Excerpts.

    “Today the Mississippi State Senate passed HB 1156 that would exempt our children from making up the days they missed due to the exteme winter conditions.
    This bill is known as the “snow day bill”. It is now headed to the Governor for his signature. I was glad to be able to do my part in helping get this bill passed to help our school districts save a little money on this years budget”.

    “The Mississippi House Of Representatives passed HB 707 which says school cannot start until after the last Monday in August. It now goes to the Senate for their blessing. It will give our children more of a summer and save some tax dollars”.

  63. raven says

    The USA is already in the era of Do It Yourself abortions. I suppose it will just keep happening more and more often.

    It’s illegal in a few states but legal in most, IIRC. This will probably change as the so called small government Tea Party passes more and more laws.

    It’s sort of cuckoo. 40% of US women will have an abortion at least once in their life. Locking up 62 million women and girls is going to do wonders for taxes as well as making it difficult to visit mom, sister, wife, daughter, or girlfriend.

    I believe nations that lock up a huge part of their population have a name, “police states”.

    Immigrants Lured to Do-It-Yourself Abortion Drug Because of Cost …
    abcnews .go.com › Health › ABC News Mind, Mood Coverage

    16 Aug 2010 – Health experts say 40 percent of all American women will have an abortion in their lifetime, one of the most common medical procedures.

    Idaho Woman Arrested For Abortion Is Uneasy Case For Both Sides …
    current .com/…/93762993_idaho-woman-arrested-for-abortion-is-une…

    3 May 2012 – POCATELLO, Idaho – An Idaho woman arrested for inducing her own abortion is taking her case to federal court. Jennie Linn McCormack was charged last year under. … most interested in and passionate about, or start a group yourself. … If it gets selected for air you could make thousands of dollars and …

  64. Ogvorbis: strawmadhominem says

    These are the xian terrorists in the news from time and time, often when an MD is assassinated or a family planning clinic bombed

    Oh, no, those aren’t the terrorists. According to the Christian right, the terrorists are those providing medical services, including abortions, to women. All these super-duper uber patriots are doing is being good Americans. Only brown people like Muslims are terrorists.

  65. raven says

    I was on Bubba’s Facebook page and he is not much on education either.

    One of the perennial targets of christofascists is public education.

    It costs tax money, and worst of all, occasionally teaches kids to think and about the world around them.

    It’s quite likely that Bubba is anti-public education but knows you can’t kill it all at once.

  66. Pteryxx says

    Some of them don’t know, or pretend not to know, that there’s even a difference between safe, legal abortion and back-alley coathanger abortion.

    The State Senate voted to pass the bill Wednesday, but it was held for further debate on Thursday, when lawmakers had an odd exchange over the bill on the Senate floor. Sen. Kenny Wayne Jones (D-Canton) asked Sen. Dean Kirby (R-Pearl), who chairs the Senate Public Health Committee, whether ending abortions in the state would force women to resort to dangerous, back-alley abortions.

    “That’s what we’re trying to stop here, the coat-hanger abortions,” Kirby replied, in reference to the abortions provided at the clinic in Jackson. “The purpose of this bill is to stop back-room abortions.”

    Gov. Phil Bryant (R), who is expected to sign the bill Thursday, expressed his support in a statement. “This legislation is an important step in strengthening abortion regulations and protecting the health and safety of women,” he said. “As governor, I will continue to work to make Mississippi abortion-free.”

    Bryant also told WJTV that he thinks Mississippi needs the law because “it saves the lives of women.”

    Sorry for the HuffPo link. Source

    Basically, if they’re not outright lying, they think abortion’s a dangerous and pointless procedure that only happens because Planned Parenthood pressures women through abortion mills to rake in cash, or something.

    The sickening irony is that they’re mostly describing the situation when legal, safe abortion’s unavailable – the exact circumstances that licensed abortion providers and Planned Parenthood exist to prevent.

  67. Moggie says

    I can only hope that the Republican war on women represents the high water mark of their crazy evil. In a modern democracy, openly hating half of your own supporters, as well as all of your opponents, ought not to be a strategy with much of a future, and as campaign slogans go, “bitches ought to die” ought not to play well outside the sociopath vote. I hope in a few years even conservatives will look back on this period and thing: fuck, did that really happen? Because the alternative is scary as hell.

  68. dianne says

    Anybody here in the medical field knows how hard it is to get admitting privileges to a hospital…

    Pshaw, it’s hardly any trouble at all! Just fill out a phone book’s worth of paperwork guaranteed to be sent back to you at least 4 times for minor mistakes and provide your CV at least 3 times in slightly different formats. Then your office administrators say, “Very good. We’ll send the pit bull*. He’ll return with either your privileges or the pancreas of the person blocking them.” Some weeks later, at least one month after agreed start date, actually start working.

    That is, of course, the procedure when the hospital is friendly to your application. If the hospital admin is pro-coathanger, the OBs at the clinic may simply collect a lot of pancreases. Assuming the clinic can afford a reliable pit bull.

    *Not literally. “Pit bull” stands for “administrator so terrifying that he/she can intimidate hospital administrators”. They’re rare but critical to the success of any outpatient medical service.

  69. Ogvorbis: strawmadhominem says

    One of the perennial targets of christofascists is public education.

    It costs tax money, and worst of all, occasionally teaches kids to think and about the world around them.

    One of the other big reasons that the right is against public education is that it is one of the last bastions of effective labour unions. The religious right detests public education because the courts have rightly said that preaching and proselytizing in the classroom is illegal. The economic right detests public education because the teacher’s unions are effective in many different ways. Thus the economic and religious right have found yet another way to scratch each other’s backs.

    “That’s what we’re trying to stop here, the coat-hanger abortions,” Kirby replied, in reference to the abortions provided at the clinic in Jackson. “The purpose of this bill is to stop back-room abortions.”

    The level of dishonest displayed in the abortion debate by the right is truly breathtaking. Do they really believe that doctors use coathangers? Or are they consciously lying for propagandistic effect?

    And the term ‘back-room abortions’? Um, aren’t most medical procedures carried out in a back room? When I had an abscessed tooth removed, my dentist sure as hell didn’t do it up front in the waiting room — we were in, literally, a back room. When I had my vasectomy, that was not done in a front room with a view, it was done in, literally, a back room.

    So, again, do these asshats actually believe what they say, or are they saying it in order to increase their chances of re-election via base placation?

  70. dianne says

    in Poland it’s quite common for Ob/Gyns to tell women that they can’t have an abortion ’cause it’s against the law, duh, but can you come back after the office hour and bring some money.

    It could even be done during office hours…”Clearly you’re not pregnant. Of course not. See, I’m writing down your negative pregnancy test now. But some…hormone imbalance must be keeping you from having your period. We’d best do a D & C or give you a high dose estrogen/withdrawal cycle to rebalance the hormones. Not an abortion, of course. Just a little old fashioned menstrual extraction…” Or, alternately, “You say your knees hurt? Must be rheumatoid arthritis. We’ll give you a quick injection of methotrexate to treat it…”

  71. Pteryxx says

    Or, alternately, “You say your knees hurt? Must be rheumatoid arthritis. We’ll give you a quick injection of methotrexate to treat it…”

    The antis have that covered, though, by sending in volunteers who pretend to want abortions, complete with hidden cameras and microphones. Anti-abortion groups have religious backing and deep pocket donors, they swipe government funds through crisis pregnancy centers and adoption agencies, and know they won’t be investigated by governments or police.

  72. Pteryxx says

    oh, I almost forgot… and interfering with medical schools to prevent any teaching of medical procedures that could be used for abortion, such as D&C.

  73. dianne says

    prevent any teaching of medical procedures that could be used for abortion, such as D&C.

    Wow. That’s criminally stupid. D&C is a common procedure needed for all sorts of problems from retained placenta after delivery to POC to removal of residual tissue after a partial miscarriage. They really aren’t bothering to hide their desire to kill women are they?

  74. says

    oh, I almost forgot… and interfering with medical schools to prevent any teaching of medical procedures that could be used for abortion, such as D&C.

    D&C is a fucking standard procedure that is performed mostly on NOT pregnant (anymore) women after miscarriages, with menopausal problems and such.

  75. Pteryxx says

    Backing up my claim:

    By a 234-182 vote, the House of Representatives passed an amendment last Wednesday, sponsored by Virginia Foxx (R-NC) that would prohibit teaching hospitals from receiving federal funding if they teach doctors how to perform abortions.

    Yes, you read that right. Residents would no longer learn how to “perform abortions,” not if their facility wants to continue receiving federal funding for training physicians. The anti-women movement might be forced to concede exceptions for rape, incest, or danger to maternal health, but those can be safely ignored if no one knows how to perform those procedures.

    Now, in typical Republican fashion, they’ve gone and passed this… this … monstrosity, without considering the larger implications.

    Yes, preventing a resident from learning to perform a D&C (dilation and curettage) or D&X (dilation and extraction) means they will not be qualified to perform abortions.

    However. It also means that future physicians will not have the training needed to save women’s lives in an emergency…

    http://www.correntewire.com/house_bans_funding_abortion_training

    (this was in May 2011)

    Kansas:

    Showdowns aren’t commonplace in Kansas abortion politics. Under Governor Sam Brownback’s watch, abortion bills are met with a rubber stamp of approval. However, the sweeping nature of this bill with multiple components and complexities has created a potential problem for the largest medical school in Kansas. KU Medical School has an ob-gyn program and this ob-gyn program must offer their medical students abortion training to keep their accreditation.

    The 68-page Kansas omni-bus abortion bill states “no health care services provided by any state agency, or any employee of a state agency while acting within the scope of such employee’s employment, shall include abortion.” KU Medical School is a State School.

    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/03/08/abortion-show-down-in-kansas-may-cause-ku-med-school-loss-accrediation

    (from this March)

    Wisconsin:

    If doctors no longer learn how to perform a D&C, what exactly are women in that situation to do?

    Well, nothing, if Pro-Life Wisconsin has its way. They are currently filing a lawsuit demanding that the University of Wisconsin’s medical department stop teaching its med students how to perform “abortions,” claiming it violates a funding ban on state dollars going to abortion. The school currently sends students on a rotation through the local Planned Parenthood in order to not be accused of performing abortions on site.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/631121/pro-life_group_sues_to_stop_university_hospital_from_teaching_%22abortion%22_(actually,_d_%26_c)/

    (from July 2011)

  76. dianne says

    Oh, I never doubted you, petryxx. Just saying that it’s stupid. FWIW, OB residents in NYC are required to learn how to perform abortions as part of their residency. Works too. Abortion facilities have been upgraded, the amount of time needed to complete pre-op evals decreased, and safer care given.

  77. Pteryxx says

    Giliell: np, I wasn’t responding to any particular doubts, just providing citations more or less by reflex. (I may not be completely awake, either…)

  78. opposablethumbs says

    Fuck this is too fucking depressing. They want women to suffer and they’re so happy about it. Fucking self-satisfied hypocritical scum.

  79. Pteryxx says

    Mississippi follow-up via RHRealityCheck: Abortion access will stop as of July 1, barring court intervention. I’m also planning to call Jackson Women’s Health tomorrow and ask for an update.

  80. says

    Is it just me, or did I hear people start to applaud after “… are just going to start doing them at home with a coat hanger, that’s what we’ve heard over and over and over…”?

  81. ema says

    Women on Web is one legitimate site* that provides the meds for ETOPs (70€ donation requested/free via financial assistance).

    Bubba’s cherished moral value of banning safe and effective medical procedures for pregnant women just brought Mississippi’s healthcare system a step closer to the one in countries like Afghanistan…Burkina Faso…Saudi Arabia…Swaziland…Yemen (for complete list see bottom of WoW page).

    Well done Bubba, well done, indeed.

    *The establishment of the WoW website has been funded by Humanistisch Instituut voor Ontwikkelingssamenwerking, Mama Cash, Mary and the Mildred Wohlford Fund at the Tides Foundation.

  82. says

    “The xtian empathy is strong in this one.”

    I wish people would not spell it like that, it’s Christian, as in Christlike. Tell it as it is, show these bigots what you really think of their cult.

  83. says

    Pteryxx:

    Sen. Kenny Wayne Jones (D-Canton) asked Sen. Dean Kirby (R-Pearl), who chairs the Senate Public Health Committee, whether ending abortions in the state would force women to resort to dangerous, back-alley abortions.

    “That’s what we’re trying to stop here, the coat-hanger abortions,” Kirby replied, in reference to the abortions provided at the clinic in Jackson. “The purpose of this bill is to stop back-room abortions.”

    Wow. The sheer amount of doublespeak is giving me the spins.

    Sad part of it is, the Christian conservative base just laps this shit up. Part of getting the anti-choice message across is to make abortion sound as gruesome as possible.

  84. Wowbagger, Vile Demagogue says

    The fuckers should at least be honest about what they want – which is for women to die for not being obedient. And this should be how the media cover it as well.

  85. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    The fuckers should at least be honest about what they want – which is for women to die for not being obedient.

    There was a guy I knew years ago, my age but we were maybe 23 then, made a comment to me about how abortion should be banned. I told him some women would die in back alley abortions. He said something very much like “maybe they should, if they were trying to kill their babies.” I couldn’t get through.

    Later that week I printed up some longish testimonial/investigation, I remember it was either by a woman who’d had an illegal abortion, or this woman’s daughter, and she’d spoken to some other women and doctors who’d seen the worst outcomes, recounting a few deaths in some gruesome detail. I gave it to him to read.

    Afterward he said he was wrong to be so certain, and he hadn’t ever really thought about it like that before. (Obviously he was intellectually aware of such deaths, but he hadn’t contemplated them emotionally the way this article demanded of the reader.) I don’t know whether the change stuck or not; I haven’t talked to him for a long time. But it had an effect, and I think more of the same, repeated until he’d really learned and couldn’t forget the emotion, could have made it stick if the first time didn’t.

  86. Wowbagger, Vile Demagogue says

    Later that week I printed up some longish testimonial/investigation, I remember it was either by a woman who’d had an illegal abortion, or this woman’s daughter, and she’d spoken to some other women and doctors who’d seen the worst outcomes, recounting a few deaths in some gruesome detail. I gave it to him to read.

    It’s the sort of thing I suspect would change more than a few people’s minds on the issue – but given that major news outlets appear, for the most part, to be run by exactly the same people who want these monstrous laws upheld, it doesn’t seem like it’s going to get much exposure.

  87. raven says

    The fuckers should at least be honest about what they want – which is for women to die for not being obedient.

    Before abortion was legal, a lot of people and families knew someone who had been killed or maimed by an illegal abortion.

    There was one in my family long before I was even born. She was always a shadowy figure not often talked about, people said she died young and had various versions of what she died of. My source says she was taken to a Catholic hospital hemorrhaging, they knew what had happened, and just let her bleed out.

  88. says

    Thought I’d chip in, as I appreciate you sharing this. Comments are moderated on the Mississipi GOP YouTube site, but meh. Thought I’d try to reason:

    “You’re screening comments. So since nobody else will read this, I wanted to let you know just how ashamed you should be for exerting your personal views and will on the people of MS. Stop abortion, but oppose birth control? Stop abortion, but eliminate funding for sex education? Are you schizophrenic, or just that hellbent on proving how little you care for women?”

  89. Pteryxx says

    This is a comment from the Dr Jen Gunter article PZ linked in the OP:

    My father, now a retired physician, did his residency in San Bernardino CA. Abortion at that time was illegal. He once told me that every Wednesday the ER was filled with women dying of septic shock after undergoing an abortion in Mexico or an illegal one here in California over the weekend. He also regularly treated women who had mutilated themselves with knitting needles, boiling hot baths and, yes, coat hangers. He is a deeply conservative man, but that experience made him pro-choice. Because when abortion is illegal, women die.

    POSTED BY CAROLYN JEWEL | MAY 19, 2012, 4:31 PM

    Every Wednesday.

  90. eliott1 says

    It should not surprise me that people could be so fucking stupid. It shouldn’t matter that this asshole is from the great state of Mississippi, that bastion of education (bottom 3 states), physical fitness (bottom 3 states) and obesity (the trend setter for fat fucks). This type of proud jerkoff is what the fat, stupid idiots of Mississippi think makes a great politician. It is just so embarrassing that people like this still exist and thrive in th 21st century, and create law. I mourn us.

  91. Ogvorbis: strawmadhominem says

    Elliot1:

    I agree with most of what you have written. I must, however, take issue with your use of obesity as an insult. Obesity and conservatism are not equal. Same for obesity and ignorance, obesity and stupidity, or obesity and religiousness. There are shitloads of ways out there to express your disgust with the state of Mississippi. Fat shaming should not be one of them.

    By the way, I have an honours degree in history, I am a public historian, I am a disabled veteran, an atheist and I am fat. Does the last one automatically make me a misogynist forcing my archaic views on women?

  92. eliott1 says

    Ogvorbis… You are right and shame on me. I apologize. Mississippi does lead the nation in obesity and religiosity so even though there is a corollary I ran with my choke out. I should have just said he’s an ignorant dumb fuck.

  93. says

    He once told me that every Wednesday the ER was filled with women dying of septic shock after undergoing an abortion in Mexico or an illegal one here in California over the weekend. He also regularly treated women who had mutilated themselves with knitting needles, boiling hot baths and, yes, coat hangers.

    It’s long ago, isn’t it?
    I suppose that’s part of the problem with people who (brainwashed by pro-dead-women propaganda), when they hear abortion think “dead baby” and not “thank goodness she can just go to an OB/Gyn/a clinic”.
    Just like with vaccines, people don’t remember the horrors of what it used to be like before. And for certain, those horrors (the numbers, the prevalence) won’t come back, in both cases, thanx to the advances of medicine.
    The women will suffer in the shadows. Their numbers won’t be public. A woman who uses RU 486 at home and has complications will just be filed under miscarriage (unless they start to investigate those, too, to make sure the women don’t cheat. And when that happens, they’ll lose, because suddenly millions of “pro-life” women will have their vaginas poked into, will be accused of “murdering their babies” when they are already in pain). There will be the odd case or two.

  94. psychodigger says

    Typical. I watched Bubba’s clip on Youtube and tried to post a comment. However, they switched on moderation, so obviously they will not post a comment that does not suit the narrow-minded hypocritical clot of pleghm that serves them in lieu of a brain.

    My comment was ‘Conservative prick.’ to be honest, but hey, it’s the truth.

  95. says

    ‘Well, the poor pitiful women that can’t afford to go out of state are just going to start doing them at home with a coat hanger.’

    <Repooplican>
    And those “poor pitiful women” wouldn’t be poor if they got a decent job. Because “poverty” = “laziness”.

    Wait. Women shouldn’t work, or have abortions. Let me try that again.

    And those “poor pitiful women” should just shut up and make their husbands a sandwich, in gratitude for giving them the gift of life.

    That sounds more like it.
    </Repooplican>

  96. Rawnaeris says

    Yeah, so I just found out my entire family, sans the only other female.

    *headdesk*

    I just don’t even….

  97. Rawnaeris says

    That was supposed to read “my whole family is anti-choice.”

    All hail Tpyos!

  98. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    @117

    Mmm…

    I’d rather do the following:

    1- Order pharma-grade estradiol from Steraloids (estrogens, as opposed to androgens, are not controlled substances). Steraloids sells it cheaper than Sigma.

    2- Order PEG or glycerol from Sigma-Aldrich.

    3- With these and a bit of ethanol you can make a crude injectable formulation – we’ve used this trick for years in testing steroid compounds on mice and rats.

    4- Inform yourself as to the doses and timing.

    No doubtful black market, possibly false, RU-486 or anticonceptional pills needed. Or weird herbs with wacky unpredictable dosage and efficacy.

  99. dianne says

    I don’t like any of the proposed alternate solutions to effectively unavailable abortions. Herbs are unreliable and have unknown potency and side effects. Drugs ordered through the internet from random third parties could be anything. Lab supplies are not human grade and could contain contaminants such as endotoxins which will make injecting preparations of them bad. A back alley abortionist, even one who is actually a doctor and performs the procedure in a clinic, is not accountable and will be of entirely random ability. It’s better than coathangers or smothering to death from a pregnancy in the context of PPH, but still really bad and there will be deaths associated with any of the techniques.

  100. Pteryxx says

    Well, how did the underground used to work? I assume there used to be doctors that *the underground* trusted and held accountable. But the more public and accountable providers are, the more vulnerable they are to TRAP laws, harassment, violence and terrorism, plus being infiltrated by fake patients and fake employees.

    Tangent but good to know: Dr Jen Gunter argues that IUDs should be cheaply and widely available for insertion *immediately after abortions*, as in during the same office visit, for maximum effectiveness and minimal appointments and fees. IUDs are hidden from interfering parents or partners, don’t require the user to remember or regularly purchase anything, and last for as long as 10 years.

    http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/when-can-you-get-an-iud-after-and-abortion-and-why-it-matters/

  101. raven says

    don’t like any of the proposed alternate solutions to effectively unavailable abortions.

    That is rather the point of the christofascists. It’s supposed to be difficult, dangerous, and potentially life ending for women. To them, that is a feature, not a bug.

    Herbs are unreliable and have unknown potency and side effects.

    Or don’t work at all. My impression is that most herbal remedies are placebos. Some are not. It helps to know which are really pharmacologically active and which are folklore.

    Drugs ordered through the internet from random third parties could be anything.

    According to google, most are fakes, as real as internet Oxycontin. According to some seemingly reliable sources, with care you can get authentic RU-486.

    Lab supplies are not human grade and could contain contaminants such as endotoxins which will make injecting preparations of them bad.

    I doubt Sigma is going to sell to private parties paying with a credit card or personal check. Not to mention sterility problems, obtaining a hypodermic syringe, and injecting oneself, not exactly what the average citizen knows anything about.

  102. Arkady says

    “Or don’t work at all. My impression is that most herbal remedies are placebos. Some are not. It helps to know which are really pharmacologically active and which are folklore.”

    Some are most definitely active, though not always effective at what they’re supposed to do… Been about 10 years since I last read The Cider House Rules, but I still remember the description of a woman dying after using oil of tansy. It had destroyed her gut’s ability to absorb vitamin C and she died of scurvy, still pregnant.

    (while the book is fiction, John Irving drew extensively on his grandfather’s medical notes from the Boston Lying-In Hospital. This was based on a real case from those notes. There were many, many other post-abortion fatalities mentioned)

  103. dianne says

    Some are most definitely active, though not always effective at what they’re supposed to do

    The bottom line with herbal meds is that they’re plants. Plants produce variable amounts of toxins* depending on the situation. Rainfall, genetics, sunlight, competition, etc can all influence the amount of drug X in the plant. Therefore, even if you take the same amount of plant or extract each time, you may be getting vastly different amounts of active drug. This can mean that you’ve taken a placebo (homeopathic dose) or a major overdose. No way to know.

    *And essentially all medicinal plants are medicinal for their toxic effects. Digitalis, taxanes, vinca alkaloids, etc are all things the plants are making so that they won’t get eaten. They aren’t there to help us.

  104. dianne says

    That is rather the point of the christofascists. It’s supposed to be difficult, dangerous, and potentially life ending for women. To them, that is a feature, not a bug.

    Yes, I suppose the coathanger remark does make that explicit.

  105. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    I doubt Sigma is going to sell to private parties paying with a credit card or personal check.

    I don’t think you’d have any problem – at least if you don’t order anabolic steroids or things like picric acid. Or here, 95% ethanol, for which you need a special permit.

    I have ordered a few times through my own credit card for a small company I worked for and never had any problem. They delivered the chemicals to an office which showed no sign of being a lab. No questions asked.

    And if they refuse I know foreign companies which don’t mind.

    Lab supplies are not human grade and could contain contaminants such as endotoxins which will make injecting preparations of them bad.

    If you pay a little more you can get USP grade – those are used in pharmaceutical trials and toxicity assays. Essentially, it’s the same grade that is used is pharmaceutical formulations. Also for injections you have to insure your solvents and seringes are properly sterile and non-pyrogenic.

    It sure would be beyond most people’s skills (most people can’t even calculate dosage properly, forget about preparing a safe injectable formulation), but for myself I’d thrust this rather than some wacky herbs.

  106. alligatie says

    “Poor women will also use clorox, turpentine, quinine, misoprostol, and back-alley butchers. They’ll bleed out, they’ll have perforated bowels, they’ll suffer unbearable agony, they’ll die.”

    As if they care if any of them die. In their eyes, it’s a natural selection of barefoot, subservient, good Christian ladies… And, it’ll be a lesson for the sinful, promiscuous, feministic commies… Remember, the biggest Republican agenda is to produce as many poor uneducated low-wage workers and have obedient wives, to support their privileged white male lifestyle.

  107. dianne says

    for myself I’d thrust this rather than some wacky herbs.

    Heh. If it comes to that, I’m prescribing myself an appropriate dose of methotrexate. It won’t come to that, not for me: I’m near menopause and never was highly fertile to start with. But this is another indication of privilege: wealthy or educated women know how to get at least semi-safe options whereas poorer women with fewer resources will end up with bleach or coathangers.

  108. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Don’t expect sympathy from the anti-choice folks for those that do die. They were paying the price for being sluts as you all well know.

    Had they been good upstanding Christian women they’d never be in that predicament.

  109. carlie says

    Had they been good upstanding Christian women they’d never be in that predicament.

    Of course not; the good upstanding Christian women can pay to go out of state.

  110. Pteryxx says

    Don’t expect sympathy from the anti-choice folks…

    I recall a few tales in “The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion” of anti women who changed their stance to pro-choice after they needed abortions and were treated respectfully by the evil evil baby-killers.

    …that’s not a very effective way to learn, though, and won’t even touch the straight-white-male women-are-farm-animals bloc. Why does everything come down to Bitchez Ain’t Shit? This BS wouldn’t have near so much traction if women’s voices actually got heard. /grump

  111. The Swordfish, High Enlightened Grand Master Janitor of the Gayluminati says

    Bubba.

    Bubba.

    You know, I’m starting to question my atheism — someone this self-parodically vile seems like they could only come into being in a universe that was created by some higher-dimensional alien artist as a brilliant yet gruesome and horrifying work of satire; a demiurge’s Candide, maybe. It’s easier than admitting that a natural universe could really give rise to people like this living, breathing affront to human decency.

    Excuse me while I go make an offering to the porcelain god.