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Apr 04 2012

White people need saving?

I had no idea. Suddenly, the fact that a black teenager can be gunned down and his white assailant goes unpunished and unhindered means the entire white race is under assault. O Lord, I hope no one threatens these fearful trembling innocent white Americans by shooting more black people! They can’t possibly bear more oppression.

The photograph is of the lovely John King, who has been protesting events in support of Trayvon Martin in Indiana. Apparently, Martin was a ghetto hoodlum, and therefore deserved to be shot. It’s going to lead to an interesting cycle: every black boy wearing a hoodie needs to be murdered, and when people protest the execution, white people like King will claim their views are being oppressed, so they need to lash out and kill more black boys, which means privileged white people will be blamed even more. How dare they say such mean things about us gentle people of European descent!

Too bad about the black kids. But what’s more important, a few lives of the wrong color, or the precious white sense of entitlement?

188 comments

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  1. 1
    Cipher

    Do people like this bother denying that they’re racist as fuck? Or are they just okay with that?

  2. 2
    Inaji

    Jumped up Jesus onna stick. All the derogatory things I can think to say about John King and others like him…they aren’t enough.

  3. 3
    'Tis Himself

    Okay King, we get it. You hate Blacks and you’re not afraid to show your racism to the world. Now do us all a favor and fuck yourself into a coma.

  4. 4
    Gordon Willis

    @Cassandra.
    I suppose they do deny it, because they think they’re okay.

  5. 5
    cactusren

    @ Cassandra Caligaria: I think people like this probably say things like, “I’m not racist, it’s just that all black teenagers are hoodlums”, and honestly don’t see the incongruence between the two halves of that sentence. The human mind’s ability to rationalize always astounds me.

  6. 6
    carpenterman

    Frank Zappa said, “I’m not black, but there are times I wish I could say I’m not white.”
    Sometimes I know just what he meant.

  7. 7
    alisonstreight

    One might assume he was denied funds for university. Could it have been lack of cognitive ability rather than skin colour? What a disgusting schmuck.

  8. 8
    Badland

    ‘Tis at #3
    applause, and seconded. The vile shit

  9. 9
    A. R

    Can’t they just admit that a black teenager was summarily executed for the crime of being Black In Public? Of course not, because shooting black people is always self defense.

  10. 10
    feralboy12

    Hoodies have never made me nervous or fearful, but those fucking socks…I don’t need to read the sign to see he’s up to no good.
    Killed By Fish

  11. 11
    Inaji

    John King, one of the non-cognitive elite.

  12. 12
    A. R

    feralboy: Agreed. Anyone who would wear socks like those with shorts must be up to no good. ;)

  13. 13
    dianne

    Yep, looks like another one of those days when I wonder whether it’s time to declare the US too far gone to save and get out.

    Slightly less nihlistically, I note that King himself showed up on the blog PZ linked to. Think he’ll come here and argue his point to? Here, chewtoy, chewtoy, chewtoy! Our teeth need sharpening!

  14. 14
    Cipher

    Here, chewtoy, chewtoy, chewtoy! Our teeth need sharpening!

    He’s low-quality as chewtoys go, though :( Looks like a brick wall type to me.

  15. 15
    A. R

    Out of curiosity, have we ever converted a chewtoy?

  16. 16
    dianne

    @14: Sigh. Based on his behavior and his comments, you’re right. He’s simply too stupid to be of any use. I doubt he’d even provide any amusement value.

  17. 17
    Inaji

    Out of curiosity, have we ever converted a chewtoy?

    Yes, chewtoys have changed their minds about things.

  18. 18
    Anthony K

    Here, chewtoy, chewtoy, chewtoy! Our teeth need sharpening!

    I’m out. The only things I have to say to full-on racists are legally actionable in many jurisdictions, and I don’t need them on record.

  19. 19
    Cipher

    Either “yes” or “I don’t know” depending on how you define chewtoy.

  20. 20
    meanmike

    When I look at that picture, I have to really restrain myself from ad hominem attacks.

  21. 21
    boskerbonzer

    “If Obama had a son he would be Trayvon.”

    Um, what? Obama would be Trayvon if he had a son? If Obama had a son, the son would be dead?

    Someone mentioned the socks; I think he’s actually got socks and footies on. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  22. 22
    A. R

    Am I the only one who thinks that he looks like he’s wearing really cheap knockoff tourist lederhosen?

  23. 23
    Inaji

    meanmike:

    When I look at that picture, I have to really restrain myself from ad hominem attacks.

    Mr. King’s fashion sense isn’t helping matters at all. However, compared to the depth of ugliness inside, it’s nothing. That said, I’d love it if this moron brought up hoodies.

  24. 24
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    It does not matter that Trayvor Martin was not a role model. Not that it matters to a cultural warrior like John King.

  25. 25
    desertfroglet

    Oh, what a surprise. According to his Facebook page, he hates Jews as well. I suppose his brown shirt is in the laundry pile.

  26. 26
    timgueguen

    From the expression on his face I diagnose King with a Brain Worm infestation. Give the man some laxitives, stat!(Yes, brain worms hide in the large intestine.)

  27. 27
    Cipher

    Oo! Don’t forget feminists! He hates us too! Advice: Don’t go to the website advertised on that poster.

    “But the ultimate goal of feminism is to be an adjunct to the ongoing plan of White Genocide.”

    “Too many of our young women will go their graves as carpet munching spinsters — never having known the great joy of raising children — because of this feminist crap taught to them on TV and in college (Womyn’s studies). But our women are also falling victim to race mixing propaganda.”

    (Found on the yayfeminism tumblr, where someone waded through some of their crap)

  28. 28
    magistramarla

    It just makes me ashamed to admit that I’m a white person.
    Like Dianne, I sometimes wonder if we should just give up and move elsewhere. We’ll be considering it if the GOTP gains power this year. They would probably wipe out our Medicare and my hubby’s federal retirement, so we’d have nothing left to lose.

  29. 29
    navigator

    Um, hoodie as an excuse to murder another human? My nephew has a pale complexion, and wears hoodies (some of which I bought for him) and he has not to date been shot. Oh, and he doesn’t hate anyone. He’s just turned 18 and is grooving along, getting ready to graduate from High School this spring.
    Why, oh why, do our young men get killed over and over again? And sent to prison for long stretches?
    Because, as much as it pains me to say it, there is no justice.

  30. 30
    desertfroglet

    Oo! Don’t forget feminists! He hates us too! Advice: Don’t go to the website advertised on that poster.

    I’m glad my eyesight’s not good enough to read the URL.

  31. 31
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Too many of our young women will go their graves as carpet munching spinsters — never having known the great joy of raising children — because of this feminist crap taught to them on TV and in college (Womyn’s studies).

    This sounds like something that the recently banned nofriendoftheatheist would have said.

  32. 32
    A. R

    Apparently he thinks that feminists can’t be men? Otherwise, he is hating quite a few white men, current speaker included. A very bizarre man.

  33. 33
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Caine:

    John King, one of the non-cognitive elite.

    Absolutely. Additional words are failing me. I’m too tired and disgusted right now.

  34. 34
    Ray, rude-ass yankee (now in HD-3D!)

    ‘Tis Himself@3, That’s not true, he doesn’t just hate blacks, he hates anyone who isn’t white (such an inclusive guy!). I’m sure feminists get on his list because they’re not dazzled by his white maleness. I mean, just look at him, how could any woman resist?

  35. 35
    zaoldyeck

    I *think* the argument goes ‘he was suspended and was caught with traces of marijuana’ for ‘he is a ghetto hoodlum’.

    Cause as we all know, if a black kid smokes pot, he’s a ghetto hoodlum who deserves to be shot. Good thing I’m white, meaning I can smoke as much as I want without risk of being shot. Yay white privilage?

  36. 36
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    carpet munching spinsters

    ??? Is carpet munching some new thing that has escaped my attention?

  37. 37
  38. 38
    Cipher

    ??? Is carpet munching some new thing that has escaped my attention?

    Teehee :D

  39. 39
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Google is my friend. :D

  40. 40
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    According to his Facebook page, he hates Jews as well.

    “But the ultimate goal of feminism is to be an adjunct to the ongoing plan of White Genocide.”

    I couldn’t find his facebook page.

    Out of morbid curiosity, what narrative does he weave to be against both jews and genocide?

    Does he only want inprisonment for jews? Is genocide only bad against white people? Or are there aliens in bigfoot costumes involved?

  41. 41
    desertfroglet

    I couldn’t find his facebook page.

    I won’t link to it here, but you can find it by clicking on his name in his comments on Jesus’ General’s post.

  42. 42
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    From the article on his *snort* savewhitepeople site…

    We must understand that American Whites are subjected to an almost constant barrage of anti-White media propaganda. [...] Last time it was those three Duke Lacrosse players and that cute adorable black escort girl.

    Gosh, that 1987 case was just yesterday wasn’t it?
     

    Most hate crimes — if you do your research — are staged events in which Whites are falsely blamed. The entire purpose of the media circus is to beat down the resolve of the White race as a whole. [...] Any sort of propaganda which has its purpose to beat down a racial or ethnic group and make it feel ashamed of itself is IMMORAL. And it should be attacked as being immoral.

    I was asked by a student why I was the only person to protest the Trayvon march.

    So… all the other white people have been demoralized into inaction, except this lone crusader for equality…

  43. 43
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    * Doh, 2006. I’d googled Tawana Brawley from the comments.

  44. 44
    Muz

    I know I’m proving the guy’s point, in a way, but why does the US produce so many guys who think like this who look like that?

    I need to go there and meet all the quite intelligent and sensible pudgy, round faced, bespectacled midwesterners with the bad mo and the high socks.
    I’m sure they exist.

  45. 45
    Inaji

    never having known the great joy of raising children

    Oh go fuck yourself, Johnny. Preferably with a decaying porcupine. You want the joy of raising sproglets, have at it. I want no part of it. As for the carpet munchin’, well, it’s pleasurable. Pity you haven’t managed to figure that one out.

  46. 46
    Inaji

    Most hate crimes — if you do your research — are staged events in which Whites are falsely blamed.

    Gosh, really Johnny? People stage such crimes at the cost of their own lives? People like Matthew Shepard? Your brain is broken, little asspimple.

  47. 47
    Daniel Schealler

    I saw the image before reading the article. All my brain could process was the following:

    Socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks socks.

  48. 48
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    @Myself #40:

    Out of morbid curiosity, what narrative does he weave to be against both jews and genocide?

    Searching that SWP site, another article has John King writing:

    the anti-Whites who favor the gradual genocide of the White race through multicultural policies of colored immigration into nominally White countries coupled with policies designed to reduce White birth rates.

    And some other unsigned pages there declare the holocaust was propaganda by the jewish media.
     
    Well that was dull nuttery. Needs more Pleiadians.

  49. 49
    A. R

    Hmm, this lecture (given by Dr. Nell Irvin Painter) seems appropriate for this thread. I won’t give you my impressions of it, but it’s certainly worth looking at.

  50. 50
    Nentuaby

    I need to go there and meet all the quite intelligent and sensible pudgy, round faced, bespectacled midwesterners with the bad mo and the high socks.

    People with his physical type, yes. People with that particular fashion sense… No, you probably won’t meet many sensible ones. That’s the outward marker of a particular cultural strain.

  51. 51
    desertfroglet

    Well that was dull nuttery.

    He can’t rail against Queen Elizabeth II and her royal family of drug-running, one world lizard-people because of his surname and the use of a crown as his logo.

  52. 52
    Ulgaa

    Soon as I saw his picture this song came to mind.

  53. 53
    A. R

    #51: Wut?

  54. 54
    desertfroglet

    #51: Wut?

    You don’t bat an eyelid at the comment about Pleiadians, but the lizard people reference bamboozles you? What are you trying to hide?

  55. 55
    A. R

    I Googled the Pleiadians bit, but the lizard people connection to HM was rather odd.

  56. 56
    Paul Coddington

    This lot are also into 9/11 conspiracies – their particular paranoid mindset allows them to be wrong about a great many things.

  57. 57
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    I Googled the Pleiadians bit, but the lizard people connection to HM was rather odd.

    Pleiadians are nordic aliens (blond hair and blue eyes).

    They also happen to frequently appear in Colleen Thomas’ ravings that toss every conspiracy theory available into a blender.

    Video: YouTube – Aliens shot down California missile

  58. 58
    Ace of Sevens

    Wow. I thought my Facebook friend was bad with his “People get murdered every day. Why should I care?”

  59. 59
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    I *think* the argument goes ‘he was suspended and was caught with traces of marijuana’ for ‘he is a ghetto hoodlum’.

    Ah, yeah
    First of all, of course Zimmerman knew of these petty offences when he then rightfully protected society from somebody who’s run into trouble at school (let’s ask all the white guys how many of their sons and daughters are guilty of that crime)

    Secondly, of course, those offences warrant the death penalty. Society needs to be protected against people smoking pot by all means.

    And the white genocide.
    Not being born (in most cases because you were actually never even conceived) is exactly the same as being brutally murdered. Makes sense.
    Those eeeeeebil wymenz.

    Actually, somebody might look into this guy.
    You know, people who think it’s genocide because lesbians perform orals* instead of raising children** might be tempted to act on it. Because, well, that’ what people feel justified to do when there’s a genocide going on.

    *Guys who think that performing an oral on a woman is a despicable, degrading act should not wonder if they’re dumped in favour of a book and some toys. It only needs some common sense, not a conspiracy to decide that their DNA should vanish out of the gene pool.
    **wait, who said that lesbians don’t have children?

  60. 60
    Azuma Hazuki

    Will someone please explain to me what the “white race” actually is? Despite the username, I am white, and all I know of my ancestry is that if you threw a dart at every place in Europe I had ancestors it would look like a porcupine with a bad dye job.

    Does he mean Caucasians generally? He’d have to include Turks, Persians, north Indians etc. in that basket then, and I suspect he doesn’t want to.

  61. 61
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    @Azuma Hazuki #60:

    Will someone please explain to me what the “white race” actually is?

    Article: White People

  62. 62
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    * Wikipedia – White People

  63. 63
    anubisprime

    Daniel Schealler @ 47

    SOCKS!…’bout sums it up…mummy must be so proud of his turnout!

    But at another level the hatred is learn’t from someone or somewhere.
    Where the lack of self awareness comes from is another mystery!

    Most likely at the knee of papa and the teat of mama.

    That boy is severely damaged…goes without saying…not as damaged as Trayvon or his family…but sad all the same.

    Such ignorance and sheer lunacy is more a shame on society really.

    A society that is allowing the good ‘ole boy to waste a life and laud him as some kind of hero for white folks…that makes me feel dirty and diminished to the marrow of my bones…I am so ashamed of being white…so deeply ashamed!

  64. 64
    ericpaulsen

    Morans.

  65. 65
    im

    White Race is more defined than some self-declared antiracists think it is, considerably less defined than most racists.

    ugh. These piss me off a LOT, and for more than the obvious “That’s Awful” reasons.

    I weep for my (white) race. Not for impending destruction, as destruction does not and should not impend, but for the inability to cast these criminals out of the privileges we enjoy and the kinship we share.

    I’m not ashamed, and the constant march of these people makes it hard to to maintain that! People who complain about the lack of “white entertainment television” take away my ability and license to like the culture that I like, and the demands these people put upon women threaten their very choices.

    I don’t understand what’s he saying about a son of Obama resembling Trayvon. Is he promoting the murder of the children of politicians?

    Not to mention I have never heard anybody calling Trayvon a role model or a saint, just that he was not a criminal and should not have looked like one.

  66. 66
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    @anubisprime #63:

    A society that is allowing the good ‘ole boy to waste a life and laud him as some kind of hero for white folks

    The subset of nutjobs who would laud him (of which only this guy showed up to protest the event) is not to be conflated with the entirety of pale people. “Society” is giving his ilk far too much credit.

  67. 67
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    I’m totally anti-death-penalty. I abhor unprovoked violence; or violence that’s not in self defense.

    But the world would be objectively better off with some certain shit heads dead. I long for the day this motherfucker dies.

  68. 68
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    im

    White Race is more defined than some self-declared antiracists think it is, considerably less defined than most racists.

    Fascinating.
    I’m waiting for your highly enlightening explenation.

    People who complain about the lack of “white entertainment television” take away my ability and license to like the culture that I like

    So, now white is a culture?
    I thought it were a race!

    This is educational!
    Carry on, please!

  69. 69
    twist

    Save white people? From what, exactly? Save them from being arrested and brought to justice after shooting unarmed teenagers for the crime of being black and wearing a hoody? Because that’s already happened. He doesn’t need to ‘save’ anyone from that. Apparently, being against the murder of unarmed teenagers equates to hating all white people. Who knew?

    According to his Facebook page, he hates Jews as well

    Don’t forget feminists! He hates us too!

    Excuse me while I die of shock.

    It just blows my mind how people like him manage to convince themselves that they’re better than everyone else on the planet by virtue of having white skin, a y chromosome and the volume of the atlantic ocean in privilege. A shining example of someone without the capacity to realise that oppressed minorities having the same rights as the privileged majority (ie. the right not to get shot in the back) is not the same as oppressing the privileged majority, all mixed up with a nice dose of paranoia and hatred of anyone who isn’t a racist white man or a racist white woman breeding machine.

  70. 70
    ricardodivali having sniffles over stiffles

    According to his Facebook page, he hates Jews as well

    Tick….

    Sooo… what does he think of Teh Gheys?

    I’m playing Douche-Bingo and i’m taking an oh so wild guess thats gonna win me the game.

  71. 71
    twist

    Sooo… what does he think of Teh Gheys?

    I’m guessing he didn’t mean “carpet-munching spinsters” affectionately.

  72. 72
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    I don’t understand what’s he saying about a son of Obama resembling Trayvon.

    Obama made an announcement saying, “My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” and “When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids.”
     

    Not to mention I have never heard anybody calling Trayvon a role model or a saint, just that he was not a criminal and should not have looked like one.

    According to SWP’s “Trayvon: One Less Nigga Ghetto Gangster”

    This guy thinks Trayvon was really a rowdy thug (because that makes more sense than an unprovoked shooting) whitewashed into normalcy by the media (CNN: polite average-scoring student who volunteered a little and had aviation aspirations)… as part of a NWO propaganda campaign to train away genetically programmed feelings of hostility toward other races and preference for one’s own.

    And that inter-racial violence will only end if people are physically separated into their own color-coordinated countries. But the NWO/Banksters want a volitile mix to distract the public from their nefarious operations, which somehow include futile attempts to end the violence with said propaganda.

  73. 73
    madtom1999

    They’ve just shown thiomersal has nothing to do with autism but I think its time to look for a fuckwittery virus affecting certain population groups.

  74. 74
    ambassadorfromverdammt

    I wonder who he got to write his sign for him? No spelling mistakes. . . .

  75. 75
    Louis

    Speaking as a white person,* a person of maleness and a sock wearer, I feel I should be allowed to shoot uppity carpet munching spinster black jewish hoodlums to protect the white race from different cultures and university funding issues. Or something.

    Also feminists are bad. This man is my idol. Especially in the sock department.

    In other news I have never had sex ever.** Not with a lady. There was this dead cat I found once. But it turned me down. Apparently I was too disgusting.

    Louis

    * I’m not white.

    ** And with sock usage that egregious, I am never going to.

  76. 76
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    My mind. It boggles. I literally can not understand how someone can look around them, at the world and how the world works, the distribution of wealth, the gap between the “haves” and the “have-nots”, and NOT see what a tremendous influence white privilege has on almost every aspect of a white person’s life.

    If you’re white and you:
    Grew up in a house instead of a shack?

    That’s coz your white ancestors built their wealth (and thus that house) off of the back of black people’s slavery and through using the blood and sweat of those black people without ever remunerating them. They didn’t “buy” the labour needed, they literally stole it, in the worst possible way imaginable. More than that, if you live in a place like the US, the UK or any developed nation, where did your nation’s riches come from? From itself, or from the pillaging and theft of Africa’s natural resources that continue to this day?

    Went to bed at night every night with a full belly? Ditto.

    Your parents (and you, as soon as you’re old enough to work) didn’t have to work 2-3 jobs each just to keep you clothed and fed? Ditto.

    You grew up in a “nice” part of town with low crime and almost no poverty? Ditto.

    Was able to afford going to University? Ditto.

    And on, and on, and on ad nauseam.

    How do people not grok this when it’s right there, in full view, you don’t need to take a course in Sociology or Anthropology or even read a few books to open your damn eyes and see it.

  77. 77
    'Tis Himself

    You folks are just jealous. How many of you have matching powder blue shorts and socks?

  78. 78
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ok, I cannot wrap my brain around how idiotic this fuckwit is :


    Most hate crimes — if you do your research — are staged events in which Whites are falsely blamed.

    -Staged events? Really?
    Was Matthew Shepard’s murder a staged event?
    What about the murder of James Byrd, Jr?
    And yes, what about the murder of Trayvon Martin? Did someone set up George Zimmerman? Is he truly innocent of the crime he admitted to doing? Who was it that followed Travyon? Who was it that referred to Travyon as suspicious and on drugs? Who was it that instigated the very situation that led to the murder of Trayvon and is now crying ‘self defense’?

    To John King:

    You are truly one vile piece of racist, hate mongering, scum.

    Oh, and go back to school and learn how to do proper research. They may not want you wearing that white pointy hat though.

  79. 79
    peterchapman

    To all commentators re socks.. Damn y’all beat me to it. And the black loafers!

  80. 80
    movinbutnotshakin

    This guy looks like he has Downs. Just sayin’.

  81. 81
    Grumps

    This guy looks like he has Downs. Just sayin’

    Next time just don’t. OK?

  82. 82
    Naked Bunny with a Whip

    You’ve got me there, ‘Tis. I don’t have either.

  83. 83
    Grumps

    @typingbutnotthinking #80

    I was going to leave it at that, but then a few minutes passed and I just got angrier at your fuckwitted, ableist comment, so I’m back.

    What the fuck was your comment meant to imply?
    He looks like he has Downs Syndrome, so he’s bound to be stupid?
    Racist thinking is a feature of Downs Syndrome?
    What?

    Oh, and by the way, he doesn’t. How many people with Downs Syndrome do you know?

    What the fuck was the point of your comment?

  84. 84
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I really hate to harp on someone’s chosen style of dress but really, #47 echos my first reaction to this photo. I know the sign should be first but. I couldn’t help it.

  85. 85
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    movinbutnotshakin: This guy looks like he has Downs. Just sayin’.

    This guys sounds like an asshole. Just sayin’.

  86. 86
    erichoug

    It’s funny but someone at Salon did a great piece on this just yesterday. I couldn’t spot it this morning but will try to run it town tonight.

    The basic gist of the article is that a lot of conservatives now believe that racism in America has essentialy been ‘solved’ with the election of president Obama. They further believe that the only existing racism that the government allows(in their view encourages) is hatred of white people. I always find it hilarious listening to some upper middle class white guy from Dallas pretend that he is a victim of government opression.

    I wonder if the guy in the photo also believes that his Christian faith is a beleagured minority religion heavily persecuted by the government.

  87. 87
    beezlebubby

    @ typing:

    At least the people I’ve met with Down’s syndrome have fully functioning hearts. They are not emotionally disabled in any sense, and usually surpass “normal” people in expressing compassion and love.

    That being said, Mr. King makes me feel almost jubilant at the prospect of a planet-killing meteoric strike.

  88. 88
    Louis

    movinbutnotshakin, #80,

    Based on your post, you look like an ablist shit stain. Just sayin’.

    Louis

  89. 89
    Neal

    There’s no way I’m the first person to do this, but…

    This picture is just too ripe for trolling

  90. 90
    Neal

    Crap. Messed the link up. http://www.misterwoodles.com/tacotuesday.jpg

  91. 91
    pentatomid

    movinbutnotshakin,

    ASSHOLE!
    That’ll be all.

  92. 92
    mnb0

    Jesus (all atheists, forgive me this time), that guy’s outlooks look an awful lot like mine. The content of his brains is not similar at all, though.
    OK, I’m a proud individual too, but not because I’m European (and only during the European- and World Championships football – what you guys wrongly call soccer – because I’m Dutch; when it comes to basketball I root for the Pistons).

    I’ve had enough of all those stupid people who watch too many action movies and go hunting teenagers just because they’re black.
    When I’m proud of the accomplishments of my ancestors I feel ashamed of their crimes against humanity at the very same time.

    The Netherlands: proud of the liberal Golden Age from say 1620-1700 and ashamed because of slavery and an anti-independance war in Indonesia, to which compared Vietnam was peanuts.
    Every time John King feels proud of his ancestors he should remember the genocide they committed on Nativ-Americans, only to make room for him.
    What a moron.

  93. 93
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    This guy is a real piece of work. :(

    Re: his thoughts about the media, has he ever seen any of the top executives at almost every media outlet? The majority of our government? If I am to understand his stance on “the media” then ALL of those rich WHITE males are behind this.

    Also, @80: piss off

  94. 94
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Meh he’s just your average run of the mill white supremacist. Point and laugh, but remember they are around.

  95. 95
    delstardotstar

    I’m normally pretty quiet here but when I saw the photo I also thought it looked a bit like King was trisomy21. And that was the only reason I read through the comments. But does it matter if he is? Possibly.

    This is a general rant about judging people by who they are vs what they say.

    I took typing’s comment to ask the question: “What if he does have trisomy21 (and therefore likely has some degree of mental retardation) *and* has been told that racism is OK by someone he really trusts?” In this case then some of the comments so far have been unpleasant.

    I’m not going to go all my-best-friend-has-Down’s because it isn’t true. But I have worked as a teacher and taught kids with trisomy21. (This as a few years ago and what is accepted best practice may have changed).

    First time it happened that I had such a kid I was crapping myself so I went and did a lot of reading and spoke with his teacher aide. (I come from a semi civilized country where kids with high needs can get a 1 on 1 assistant in the classroom. Sometimes fulltime, sometimes just for certain classes).

    Anyhow, it was my understanding that 100% of people with trisomy21 have some degree of mental retardation (bound to be a more PC term but let’s go with that for now). This is of course a long winded way of answering the question about whether people with trisomy21 are ‘dumber’ than normal. (*Don’t give me grief about the word normal. Because an extra copy of any chromosome *is* abnormal and I am using the word in a descriptive and nonpejorative sense).

    Firstly what is ‘dumb’? I would argue that dumbness is not using one’s full ability. My experience with trisomy21 kids (limited, I admit) is that they work harder than normal kids. Their achievement may be lower but their effort is not. So they are not dumb.

    From what I see at Pharyngula and elsewhere this King is not especially atypical by usaian standards. Should we judge King by what he says alone? In which case he is a Bad Person (TM). If he has trisomy21 then should we ‘make allowances’ because his cognition may be less than normal? If so, then are all people with faith also dumb by definition so we should excuse their wrongness?

    Getting to the point, King is only ‘dumb’ if someone has explained to him that he is wrong and explained why he is wrong. Most people of his age and with the degree of privilege I infer from his picture know racism is wrong. So we assume that such a racist is a Bad Person (TM). But if he hasn’t been told racism is wrong by someone he trusts then should we hate on him like the earlier comments?

  96. 96
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Every time John King feels proud of his ancestors he should remember the genocide they committed on Nativ-Americans, only to make room for him.
    What a moron.

    Keep in mind, though, people of my generation, depending on the school district, may have been taught that Manifest Destiny was a good thing. That the genocide in the Americas, the destruction of native culture, the dissappropriation of land, the abrogation of treaties, were all a good thing as it brought the Native Americans closer to being human (that is, European American) and opened up the land to those who were actually willing to rape the land. To many my age and older (and, in some cases, younger), what was done to the Native Americans was a Good Thing.

    There are also people in the US who think that slavery was a Good Thing because the African slaves were taught how to be industrious and hardworking labourers and, at the same time, got to become Christians.

  97. 97
    twist

    Every time John King feels proud of his ancestors he should remember the genocide they committed on Nativ-Americans, only to make room for him.
    What a moron.

    He probably would see that as a feature, rather than a bug.

  98. 98
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie,
    Not just your generation– I was in high school in the 90s and taught how glorious Manifest Destiny was. *spits*

    I can’t even keep up with the Down’s Syndrome comments. Anyone who feels the need to bring it up can kindly go fuck themselves. Here’s the problem: you don’t want to see this guy as “normal”. “Normal” people don’t hold such odious views, so he must be mentally retarded (“abnormal”), right?

    Not only is your ableism disgusting, but your complete disregard for reality is not fucking helping. Assholes.

  99. 99
    michaelb

    I, as a white man, beg to be saved from the sight of Mr. King’s short pants, pasty calves, pale blue socks, and slip-on loafers.

  100. 100
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    delstardotstar

    Are you serious?

    Had you read the article linked you’d know damn well he isn’t.

    So all that other nonsense is what exactly? Proof you are too lazy to read all the info before throwing some ridiculous “theory” out on the internet?

    This for example is about as myopically stupid a comment as I can imagine.

    Getting to the point, King is only ‘dumb’ if someone has explained to him that he is wrong and explained why he is wrong. Most people of his age and with the degree of privilege I infer from his picture know racism is wrong. So we assume that such a racist is a Bad Person (TM). But if he hasn’t been told racism is wrong by someone he trusts then should we hate on him like the earlier comments?

    Yes. We should highly critical of this asshole. Anyone of his age who was in the military should have the worldly experience to know that racism is wrong. If he doesn’t agree, which he doesn’t (and other’s don’t), then fuck him. You’re basically giving a pass to anyone who is a racist fuck who has had as many years on this earth living in a society such as ours because they haven’t been sat down by their daddy and told “Little Kenny, you know racism is wrong right?”. Sorry, that just doesn’t fly.

  101. 101
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I can’t even keep up with the Down’s Syndrome comments. Anyone who feels the need to bring it up can kindly go fuck themselves. Here’s the problem: you don’t want to see this guy as “normal”. “Normal” people don’t hold such odious views, so he must be mentally retarded (“abnormal”), right?

    Not only is your ableism disgusting, but your complete disregard for reality is not fucking helping. Assholes.

    this

  102. 102
    WharGarbl

    @Ogvorbis
    #96
    @Audley
    #98
    Well, to be honest, pretty much every civilization is built on top of a crap-ton of corpses. It’s not something unique to US.

  103. 103
    frog

    Gen Fury@76: That’s coz your white ancestors built their wealth (and thus that house) off of the back of black people’s slavery and through using the blood and sweat of those black people without ever remunerating them.

    –>Okay, how to approach this….

    Look, I am absolutely certain that my family has benefited enormously from white privilege. There is no question whatsoever.

    But I will note that there are both white people and black people in this country whose ancestors arrived on these shores less than three generations ago.

    I suspect it’s more useful to focus on trying to fix the endemic, systemic racism of our country as it exists right now, not because someone owes or is owed something, but because decent people should oppose such things on principle.

    The history of slavery is part of the story and set up the situation, but it’s not the current problem. The problem is shits like John King who don’t understand that “success” is not a zero-sum game.

  104. 104
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Filthy Human,
    True, but why in the hell are we celebrating genocide?

  105. 105
    Jerry

    To “Gen Fury” in re comment 76:

    … I literally can not understand how someone can look around them, at the world and how the world works, the distribution of wealth, the gap between the “haves” and the “have-nots”, and NOT see what a tremendous influence white privilege has on almost every aspect of a white person’s life.

    Okay, agreed.

    If you’re white and you:
    Grew up in a house instead of a shack?

    That’s coz your white ancestors built their wealth (and thus that house) off of the back of black people’s slavery and through using the blood and sweat of those black people without ever remunerating them.

    There is no way can I agree with you on this. I am the child of immigrants, first generation born here. While my parents benefited from white privilege, they never owned slaves. (Most of the time benefited, except when my father was mistaken in the summer for being black.) In fact, it’s much more likely that my ancestors were indentured servants to conquerors than the tiny chance they ever owned slaves hundreds of generations ago. The chance my ancestors ever owned black slaves in Europe? Slim to none.

    Even if I had white American ancestors who came here on the freaking Mayflower, there is more of a chance they never owned slaves than they did. Most people in the U.S. never owned slaves- that was reserved for the wealthy, mainly in the south.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_United_States

    Only 8% of all US families owned slaves,[140] while in the South, 33% of families owned slaves and 50% of Confederate soldiers lived in slave-owning households.[141]

    I’m a white American, but you cannot make blanket generalizations like this about me or any other white person.

    So, do I benefit from white privilege, even today? Yes. No doubt, whether I want to or not. Do I think John King and his hood wearing klan brethern are all asshats? Yes. Am I ashamed to breathe the same air and share any genes with them? Yes.

    But trying to make me and all white people who ever owned a house or ate food feel guilty because our ancestors ‘all owned slaves’? Get real. That is B.S., I resent it, and deserve an apology.

    Jerry

  106. 106
    Louis

    I was unaware that only people with genetic and/or mental diseases/disabilities were the only people who were racists. Who knew?

    I wonder if anyone has brought up the contribution that insulting people who are undesirable for some quality unrelated to genetic/mental illness/disability by claiming they have some genetic/mental illness/disability has to a pre-existing culture of stigma and discrimination against people with genetic/mental illness/disability?

    Naaaaah no one here would mention that would they? It’s like it’s not a problem.

    Louis

  107. 107
    Louis

    Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, #104,

    Because it’s genocidalicious?

    Louis

  108. 108
    'Tis Himself

    For those making comments about King’s possible mental deficiencies, he has a BS and MA from a reputable college. There’s all sorts of things wrong with him, but he is not mentally retarded.

  109. 109
    Grumps

    I wonder if anyone has brought up the contribution that insulting people who are undesirable for some quality unrelated to genetic/mental illness/disability by claiming they have some genetic/mental illness/disability has to a pre-existing culture of stigma and discrimination against people with genetic/mental illness/disability?

    Oh my, that took some unpicking (but then I’m pissed, so it’s hard). But now I have… right on! …I don;t think they have. (I think)

  110. 110
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Digging the extra commenting feature Louis.

  111. 111
    Grumps

    There’s all sorts of things wrong with him, but he is not mentally retarded.

    Hmm… being “retarded” (oh my I wish we could stop using that word) is a way of being wrong?

    Even if he had a learning difficulty (which he clearly doesn’t) he could still be a racist shitstain.

  112. 112
    Quodlibet

    Louis,

    Your commentary (here, and in every thread) is like an excellently sharp mustard in the bland sandwich of my day.

  113. 113
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Louis:

    Because it’s genocidalicious?

    Why did this make me think of Reese’s peanut butter cups?

    O.o

  114. 114
    WharGarbl

    @Audley
    #104
    @Louis
    #107
    Because victor writes the history, and most people don’t want to be told that “Oh, btw, you’re here because we brutally murder a crap-ton of people and destroyed their culture.”

    Every culture will do this. Even those that lost will try. And it doesn’t take much for “down-playing” to “celebrating”.

    In short, it doesn’t surprise me that they do that.

  115. 115
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Why did this make me think of Reese’s peanut butter cups?

    You got your racism in my history!

  116. 116
    WharGarbl

    @Grumps
    #111

    Even if he had a learning difficulty (which he clearly doesn’t) he could still be a racist shitstain.

    If one really does have a learning difficulty that resulted in one being a racist shitstain, then said individual deserves to be pitied, not mocked.

  117. 117
    Louis

    Rev BDC,

    I only wish it were my idea. Those crazy folks on TZT have to take the credit. Although I plan to be one of the more egregious abusers of this new found thing. At least until I get bored or forget. ;-)

    Louis

  118. 118
    carlie

    What, nobody’s claimed he’s autistic yet? The troll quality is slacking, you guys.

  119. 119
    Louis

    Grumps, #109,

    I was not-so-ironically referring to the fact that, for some reason, there has been a recent uptick (IMO) in ableist drivellers here. Specifically in reference to mental health. Hence there has also been the commensurate uptick in numbers of great people telling them to part their mudflaps and insert requisite members of the Erethizontidae or Hystricidae as appropriate.

    I have wasted many an electron on telling these prejudiced gimboids that Enlightenment and Reason: THEY R DOIN IT RONG. As indeed have many others.

    Louis

  120. 120
    Louis

    Dr Audley Z Darkheart #113 and Rev BDC #115,

    Because corporate greed the world over is causing the minimalisation of the nation state as a power and fostering even greater inequality to create more profit, thereby focussing more wealth in the hands of the few, thus causing insecurity and deprivation which in turn leads to those few who control nation states to a lingering degree to mobilise against identifiable groups of enemies both old and new in order to claim or reclaim resources?

    Something like that maybe, Audley?

    Also you both got your history in my racism….wait….that’s actually a good thing probably.

    Louis

  121. 121
    Louis

    Quodlibet, #112,

    Thanks! You really are far too kind.

    I do need to know how to upgrade from mustard to pastrami though. And possibly get some pickles involved…no…no…that would be perverted.

    Louis

    P.S. Dammit now I want a sammich.

  122. 122
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm perverted sammmich

  123. 123
    Grumps

    If one really does have a learning difficulty that resulted in one being a racist shitstain, then said individual deserves to be pitied, not mocked

    Agreed. But how many learning difficulties “result” in being a racist (what does that even mean?).

    Oh, and I don’t pity people with learning difficulties. I revel in their company.

  124. 124
    Louis

    Rev BDC,

    I think your mind and my mind just went to naughty, naughty little places. I felt a great disturbance in the Internet, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in lust and mild arousal.

    Louis

  125. 125
    Q.E.D

    Gen Fury @ 76

    If you’re white and you: Grew up in a house instead of a shack? That’s coz your white ancestors built their wealth (and thus that house) off of the back of black people’s slavery and through using the blood and sweat of those black people without ever remunerating them. They didn’t “buy” the labour needed, they literally stole it, in the worst possible way imaginable.

    I understand your incredulity at people who don’t get white privilege but you have made a hash out of your argument by making massive, unsupported, generalizations.

    I’ll bet no one here will deny that white privilege exists but you are going to need one hell of a string of citations to evidence your claim that ALL white people who live in houses had slave owning ancestors.

    More than that, if you live in a place like the US, the UK or any developed nation, where did your nation’s riches come from? From itself, or from the pillaging and theft of Africa’s natural resources that continue to this day?

    It is beyond cavil that Imperialism wreaked havoc and created untold misery on the African continent (and elsewhere) but this is factually incorrect, there are other sources of wealth in developed nation besides the natural resources of the African Continent.

  126. 126
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Well, to be honest, pretty much every civilization is built on top of a crap-ton of corpses. It’s not something unique to US.

    Oh, I know. The right wing in virtually every nation also brags that it was the right thing to do and we should be proud of it because we are Exceptional and normal rules Do Not Apply!

  127. 127
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Louis and Rev,
    Shit, now I want a sandwich, too. With pickles. And a peanut butter cup for dessert*.

    A big, drippy, pervy sammich would definitely hit the spot right about now.

    *drool!* *slurp!* What were we talking about, again?

    *One “S” or two? I always mess that one up.

  128. 128
    Louis

    Dr Audley Z Darkheart,

    {Consults his copy of Debrett’s Guide to Ettiquette and Modern Manners}

    1) It should never be referred to as “dessert” or “sweet” and never “afters”. The correct term is “pudding”.

    2) Never try to eat a desert unless either a) you are a very large and hitherto undiscovered organism that can process significant areas of a planet or b) it is a remarkably small desert.

    Louis

  129. 129
    Louis

    Ogvorbis,

    The right wing in virtually every nation also brags that it was the right thing to do and we should be proud of it because we are Exceptional and normal rules Do Not Apply!

    Well obviously! DUH! Those other people were probably a bit foreign.

    Louis

  130. 130
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    2) Never try to eat a desert unless either a) you are a very large and hitherto undiscovered organism that can process significant areas of a planet or b) it is a remarkably small desert.

    Or c) a giant sandworm native to the planet Arrakis/Dune.

  131. 131
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Frog 103,

    Look, I am absolutely certain that my family has benefited enormously from white privilege. There is no question whatsoever.

    But I will note that there are both white people and black people in this country whose ancestors arrived on these shores less than three generations ago.

    I suspect it’s more useful to focus on trying to fix the endemic, systemic racism of our country as it exists right now, not because someone owes or is owed something, but because decent people should oppose such things on principle.

    The history of slavery is part of the story and set up the situation, but it’s not the current problem. The problem is shits like John King who don’t understand that “success” is not a zero-sum game.

    I agree with everything you said, and nowhere did I imply othewise. My specific problem lies with how anyone can claim that whites are being discriminated against in light of the things that I mentioned.

    Even if your parents are first generation immigrants, like Jerry who takes such offence at my listing:

    You ARE culpable.

    Don’t you see? This IS endemic racisim. This idea that some “we” did all of this “our” selves? Bootstraps! and all that? At its heart, it says that if everyone just tries similarly hard enough, they’ll eventually get the things our privilege gave “us” for free which is not only untrue but patently ridiculous.

    So yes, you did still undeservedly benefit from the fruits of slavery even if you weren’t in the US at the time of their slavery (what is that, roughly the 1700s to the mid to late 1800s? That’s a mere 150-200 years.) As a global population, ALL of our hands are dirty in this regard.

    Did I miss the part in history where slavery was limited to the US? Coz I wasn’t even referring to the US when I wrote what I wrote. The enslavement of people, POC most notably included but not exclusively POC, was a global phenomenon and it continued for centuries if not millenia.

    I am not a US citizen, so my focus is not Americocentric. Sorry to disappoint.

    Read carefully what I wrote about rich countries, the pillaging of African minerals that still continues to this day, and look around you.

    The roads? The infrastructure? The very land you live on NOW (as I’ll assume you, specifically, Jerry, are living on American soil right now, soil which, like the soil I am personally currently living on more likely than not originally was stolen from its original owners), even if you originally came from Ghana or some place like that?

    The things you take for granted in the “civilized” world? Even if they weren’t built by actual black (or any other race) slaves and labour, their cost were most likely covered by the exploitation of POC and others unable to defend themselves, be it through land grabs, free labour, mineral and resource theft both ancient and modern and other things.

    So the whole “bootstraps!” thing? Get over it. If you feel guilty, perhaps you should consider that there is, indeed, something to feel guilty about.

  132. 132
    dianne

    I need to go there and meet all the quite intelligent and sensible pudgy, round faced, bespectacled midwesterners with the bad mo and the high socks.

    My brother-in-law is a pudgy, round faced, bespectacled midwesterner who is quite intelligent and no more racist than the average middle aged American. I don’t think his daughter would let him out of the house dressed like that though.

  133. 133
    frog

    The ableist thread and desert-eating thread have collided and suddenly I’m imagining Galactus with pica.

  134. 134
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Oh, and just to make sure that it’s clearly understood, I do know that not every single white house owner / person in the history of the world got their house and food only because of exploitation, though I continue to argue that said exploitation plays a significant role in that. I apologize and admit that I may have gotten a bit carried away. Racist fuckwits does this to me, mostly because I myself was raised in this shit from infancy.

    I’m white and I was born and grew up in Apartheid South Africa. I encounter this shit not on a daily basis, but on an hourly basis.

    My argument is that if you are one of those people who have those privileges like tarred roads, a house to live in etc. etc., you can not simply claim that it was entirely due to your own or your ancestors’ doing. Well, unless you clearly state “I had the means to buy a house last year because a few generations back my family made its wealth by using free labour. Boy, that’ll sure push up the profit margins, lemme tell you.” In which case I also ask the question that CC asks in #1.

    QED, I hope that addresses your concerns.

  135. 135
    movinbutnotshakin

    Sorry everyone (and especially Grumps) for inciting that firestorm with my comment. It was pretty inane. It was meant to imply that if King does have Down’s that that should be taken into account, although not used as an excuse for his racism. It turns out he doesn’t have Down’s, making my comment even more idiotic.

    But my comment was ableist?? Really? Maybe if I had said, “This fucker has Down’s and because of that should shut the hell up.”

    Nonetheless, King’s worldview is backwards and needs a reality check.

  136. 136
    A. R

    Wait, did I just see the word genocidalicious?

  137. 137
    'Tis Himself

    I need to go there and meet all the quite intelligent and sensible pudgy, round faced, bespectacled midwesterners with the bad mo and the high socks.

    I was born and raised in the Midwest, I’m bespectacled and pudgy, I’m reasonably intelligent, but alas I fail to meet the round face requirement. Does it count that I often wear cargo pants?

  138. 138
    frog

    Gen Fury, I think you are still missing the forest for the trees.

    The history of humanity is one of slavery and exploitation of everyone, of every color. It is trivially easy to bring up examples of cultures that regularly kept slaves who looked pretty much like their masters.

    Looking backward is useful as a lesson of “Do not repeat this.”

    I don’t understand how it has any value in terms of “And this is how we solve the current problem.”

    ————

    You have now introduced bootstrapping into your argument, which I will choose to interpret as being merely a lacuna in your original post and not a deliberate shifting of goalposts.

    Yes, bootstrapping doesn’t work. A hand up is a necessary start, with the long-range goal of a truly level playing field (laws don’t make the field level because it is impossible to legislate thought patterns; only a large-scale change in societal attitudes can do that).

    I’m still not certain I understand what point you’re driving at. If you are primarily expressing frustration, that’s fine.

  139. 139
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Frog, 138

    I’m still not certain I understand what point you’re driving at. If you are primarily expressing frustration, that’s fine.

    My point continues to be that, taken into account humanity’s history of enslavement and exploitation, it is beyond absurd to claim that whites are being discriminated against. There is no way to sustain such a claim or even reconcile it with reality.

    The only way I can see to make sense of that kind of claim (that there’s an anti-white bias somewhere despite the mountains upon mountains of white privilege) is through the argument of bootstraps or something similar. This is also the only form of argument I’ve ever heard in this regard (it’s kind of like “we hunted the mammoth in sexism arguments) and is one which, as is clear, I vehemently disagree with.

    Many people here where I live are crying “reverse racism!” and “whites are so discriminated against” when that is not even remotely the case, so like I said, this is an argument I have regularly, often with people in my family or circle of friends.

    Also, part of it was an expression of frustration. Which is probably why mah words, they no werk so good.

  140. 140
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    movinbutnotshakin

    But my comment was ableist?? Really? Maybe if I had said, “This fucker has Down’s and because of that should shut the hell up.”

    There are idiotic comments, and then there are idiotic comments that also contribute to a wider, systemic discrimination against a group of people. Yours is the latter, which makes it ableist.

  141. 141
    DLC

    What is this, fashion week ? So what if the guy’s dressed like an octogenarian refugee from a golf course, it’s his ideas that bother me! That and his apparently complete lack of wit and his moronic sense of victimhood that seems to arise out of seeing any non-white person being in any way assisted by anyone in any fashion, as if he got there on his own and dad-blasted why can’t they?

    Right-wing Amnesia. careful, it’s catching.

  142. 142
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    Gen Fury, Still Desolate and Deviant #1 @ 76:
    I think that I agree with your sentiment but I have a problem with your argument.

    If you’re white and you:
    Grew up in a house instead of a shack?

    The first years of my life were living in a house that my grandparents built with their own hands. It had no running water and was heated with a wood burning stove.

    That’s coz your white ancestors built their wealth (and thus that house) off of the back of black people’s slavery and through using the blood and sweat of those black people without ever remunerating them. They didn’t “buy” the labour needed, they literally stole it, in the worst possible way imaginable. More than that, if you live in a place like the US, the UK or any developed nation, where did your nation’s riches come from? From itself, or from the pillaging and theft of Africa’s natural resources that continue to this day?
    Previously address by others upthread.

    Went to bed at night every night with a full belly?
    Most nights, yes, but not always.

    Your parents (and you, as soon as you’re old enough to work) didn’t have to work 2-3 jobs each just to keep you clothed and fed?
    Actually, they did. And my first job was at the age of 9. (And that job was in addition to working the ranch we lived on.)

    You grew up in a “nice” part of town with low crime and almost no poverty?
    Nope.

    Was able to afford going to University?
    If by “afford” you mean taking on a massive debt load while working full time, then yes.

    I acknowledge that white privilege exists and that I benefited from it in many ways. That is unquestionable. However, your overgeneralizing is shooting a great big hole in your argument. In other words, while I might agree with what you’re trying do, the way your doing it is just pissing me off.

  143. 143
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    whoa, the thread is moving fast.

    I stand by what I just posted, but having just read some of the comments that came in while I typed, I will consider it to have been addressed already.

    Also, part of it was an expression of frustration. Which is probably why mah words, they no werk so good.

    I totally with you on that, too!

  144. 144
    YOB - Ye Olde Blacksmith

    I AM totally with you…

    Gah!

  145. 145
    spamamander, internet amphibian

    @80

    Kindly fuck off with the deceased and decaying spiny mammal of your own choosing. (I hear Zaglossus attenboroughi is a fine specimen for such an endeavor.)

    Yes, I admit to personal bias in my request. While ableist speech in general pisses me right the fuck off, my daughter with Down syndrome is a beautiful and remarkable young woman who would never associate with shitstains like the person in the OP.

    She also has more class in her middle finger than apparently you have in the entirety of the festering cesspool you consider your physical being.

  146. 146
    Jerry

    Gen Fury,
    I never claimed that I did it all myself, pulled myself up by my bootstraps, or any such garbage. I am white, but not racist like John King. I am hopefully a lot less racist than most. I regularly vote liberal and write to my elected officials letting them know that I live in a society, not a “rugged individualist” bad fiction novel. (I live in a mainly right wing region of the U.S., where they believe nonsense like Ayn Rand’s ravings. I’m not in the majority, unfortunately.)

    Attributing the “bootstraps” argument to all white people is prejudicial and wrong. It is saying we are all fools who cannot learn from our own history. No thanks, still a logical failure.

    I live in my society and yes, drive a car on roads and use technology, so I benefit from corporate exploitation. I can’t opt out unless I move to the woods into a lean-to, hunt and wear skins or leaves. Am I automatically guilty in your eyes? Me and everyone else with whom you are communicating over the internet? If so, then we’re all guilty in your eyes- not just the lighter-hued internet users, but all of us. (Unless you want me to feel guilty and apologize for being born my particular color, which I will not do.) There are a lot of things that need to be fixed in the world, some of it racial, some of it due to wealth and resource use and exploitation. John King is wrong. So is your argument, for different reasons.

    Jerry

  147. 147
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    But my comment was ableist?? Really? Maybe if I had said, “This fucker has Down’s and because of that should shut the hell up.”

    That sound you hear…. yada yada yada… the point… yada yada yada… look up

  148. 148
    Zugswang

    First thing I thought of when I saw that was, “If Lumbergh just gives him back his stapler, he’ll stop complaining.”

  149. 149
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    First thing I thought of when I saw that was, “If Lumbergh just gives him back his stapler, he’ll stop complaining.”

    And I think there’s a good chance he would burn down the building.

  150. 150
    dianne

    An anecdote re “bootstraps”:

    One of my (white or passing for white*) ancestors was a poor farmer in Georgia. Not a slave owner for reasons of finance rather than enlightenment. Anyway, around the time of the Civil War, he lost his land and livelihood. He decided to go to Texas to start over. He walked there with his oldest son, got some land, and started a farm. (Yes, in west Texas. Oh, stop that: the better land was already taken.) He did well enough to bring the rest of his family over. They all walked to Texas too. Family’s been there ever since.

    Sounds like a real “pulling yourself up by the bootstraps” success story, right? He took the initiative to find a better life for himself and his family, built his own house, figured out some way to raise a money crop in sand, etc. Except:

    1. He didn’t get lynched while walking through the deep south. Three times. White privilege right there.

    2. He got land that was “cleared” by genocide or forced removal.

    3. He was acceptable as a colonizer because he was non-Hispanic and “white”. If he’d been black or Hispanic, he wouldn’t have been allowed to claim the land. Land that was under the control of the US because Mexico allowed Anglo colonists to come in and settle it on the condition that they obey Mexico’s laws. They failed to follow this agreement. The particular law they objected to? The abolition of slavery. So, even though this particular ancestor wasn’t there at the time, he benefited from Texas’ pro-slavery war with Mexico.

    4. He was able to count on his neighbors to assist his family while he was gone and didn’t fear that they would be dead when he returned…or at least thought the risk reasonable.

    5. Neighbors undoubtedly helped him to get settled, learn the region, figure out how to avoid death by dehydration, etc. All the things that people do if they consider you part of the “in” group-or fail to do if you’re not part of the group.

    White privilege: you may not have asked for it, but you get it. Without anyone ever saying “I’m going to help you because you’re white”.

    *There’s a long, convoluted, and probably boring family history concerning the real ancestry of this bit of the family, but most of the family passes reasonably well for white.

  151. 151
    baal

    I’m glad to see I’m not alone in getting really hung up on the sock choice. Were I him (and I’m glad I’m not), I’d hand off any decision I could to someone else.

  152. 152
    sambarge

    Is it okay to snark here? Because really, who can take this man seriously with his shorts-socks-dress shoes from the 70s combo?

  153. 153
    myeck waters

    70s? Hey, sambarge, there’s no call for that decadist shit.

  154. 154
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Jerry, I have to confess, I find your reaction puzzling, especially after I took pains in clarifying my initially emotionally expressed argument.

    Nowhere did I say or even imply that anyone needs to be ashamed of the colour they were born with, or put on trail or punished or anything like that. I’m honestly curious as to where you get that from?

    I explained my argument in 134, admitting that I phrased it poorly before:

    I do know that not every single white house owner / person in the history of the world got their house and food only because of exploitation, though I continue to argue that said exploitation plays a significant role in that.

    And continued expanding in 139 to explain how the “bootstraps” fit in:

    My point continues to be that, taken into account humanity’s history of enslavement and exploitation, it is beyond absurd to claim that whites are being discriminated against. There is no way to sustain such a claim or even reconcile it with reality.

    The only way I can see to make sense of that kind of claim (that there’s an anti-white bias somewhere despite the mountains upon mountains of white privilege) is through the argument of bootstraps or something similar. This is also the only form of argument I’ve ever heard in this regard (it’s kind of like “we hunted the mammoth in sexism arguments) and is one which, as is clear, I vehemently disagree with.

    That is the whole of my argument.

    Just what, exactly, do you imagine I’m saying when you talk about “guilt” and me supposedly wanting you to be shamed for being born white?

    For fuck’s sake, did you not read the part where I told you I was born and raised in South fucking Africa? As a white person? During the abolition of Apartheid?

    There’s a difference between acknowledging that life has given you some advantages in comparison to other people and expecting you to jump off a bridge or renounce your race because of it. I did the former, not the latter, so why do you immediately assume that that’s even in the cards? I’m sensing more than a whiff of persecution complex here, but then, I’m sensitive tonight and my sensors are on hair-fine triggers.

    Seriously, I don’t even

  155. 155
    David Marjanović

    “Hoodlum”? That word is still in actual use? I’ve only seen it used to describe 419-scammers by meta-419-scammers (who are probably the exact same people).

    Morans.

    ROTFLMAO!

    I don’t understand what’s he saying about a son of Obama resembling Trayvon. Is he promoting the murder of the children of politicians?

    He’s saying Trayvon is as bad as Obama, which is a horrible, horrible, horrible thing to say! Obama is at least the Antichrist!!!1!

    Not just your generation– I was in high school in the 90s and taught how glorious Manifest Destiny was. *spits*

    *headdesk*

  156. 156
    Q.E.D

    dianne @150

    Thanks for that excellent story. It should be required reading for people who still believe they “bootstrapped” their way to where they are.

    I particularly like this:

    1. He didn’t get lynched while walking through the deep south. Three times. White privilege right there.

    Reminding “bootstrappers” that mere freedom of movement was for a very long time the reserve of white people should help them to realize what a head start their families and therefore they have in life.

  157. 157
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    All you MY ANCESTORS WORKED HARDZZ!!! people:

    Grow the fuck up. No one gives a shit where you were raised or how fine and upstanding your grandparents were. The fact that you find it so, so important to defend your family honor and make sure no one ever thinks anything bad about them is embarrassing. Seriously. Listen to yourselves.

    What do you want, a goddamned gold star? You’re that resentful and pissily offended that some person you don’t even know on the Internet exaggerated a little bit and generalized about a very real legacy of privilege built on slavery? What the hell is wrong with you?

  158. 158
    cconti

    And who could disagree with such a magnificent specimen of the Aryan race?

  159. 159
    jnorris

    His parents failed him.

  160. 160
    Louis

    I benefited from slavery. I was a PhD student. I got a PhD out of being a slave.

    Badum tish.

    But seriously folks…other people have said it better. We all benefit from the sketchy stuff pulled by all our ancestors. Sorry, them’s the facts.

    And A.R. #136, yes, yes you did see the word genocidalicious. It’s a great word, Nazitastic in fact.

    Louis

  161. 161
    casimirfornalski

    I knew I’d seen this guy somewhere before:

  162. 162
    Aratina Cage

    But what about the Whites????
    I actually saw an atheist spout nearly the same thing as John King up there on Twitter last week. His arguments were pathetic and really reaching–almost Paliniotic. I could almost hear him screaming, “Lamestream media!”, while sending out some of his tweets. Grrrr…

  163. 163
    SallyStrange

    Am I automatically guilty in your eyes?

    Seriously, can someone please explain to me the thought process that translates this:

    If you’re white, you have advantages that people of color don’t have, thanks to history and economics and unconscious bias, etc., etc.

    into this:

    You are a horrible, awful, guilty, guilty sinner!

    please? Because I just don’t get it.

    Because really, it’s not that hard to process. Okay, you’re poor and so were your parents and grandparents. So? Now imagine being that poor AND being black. Does the picture suddenly get rosier or not? Herp a derp.

  164. 164
    julietdefarge

    It’s the socks in loafers that keep people from walking up to him and punching him in the face. They can see he’s differently abled.

  165. 165
    Cipher

    They can see he’s differently abled.

    So, you missed that whole thing above about how this is an asshole move, then?

  166. 166
    Louis

    Cassandra Caligaria,

    I think so. Because, you know, no one’s mentioned it. Ever.

    Louis

  167. 167
    Inaji

    CC:

    So, you missed that whole thing above about how this is an asshole move, then?

    It would seems so. Universe forfend that anyone actually read the comments!

  168. 168
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    This guy looks like he has Downs. Just sayin’.

    I’m normally pretty quiet here but when I saw the photo I also thought it looked a bit like King was trisomy21.

    They can see he’s differently abled.

    Did you really think this shit would fly after tearing to shreds previous ableist comments? Really? It is not that fucking hard to stop doing this shit. It’s sad that it’s an improvement this shit come up as late as comment 80.

    ———————————

    As far as being poor and white as opposed to being poor and black. Look, I’m poor and white. I’m currently getting help to pay my rent from this very community in fact. ( This community is awesome and thank you all. )
    -
    When a black person I meet in shelters say to me “ You think its hard for you? Try doing all of this while black?” after complaining about how much life sucked do I get all huffy and explaining how I’m bootstrapping? How I’m poor just like them? Fuck no, and you’re stupid if you think I did. I still have advantages as a white person and I know this. I have a better chance of getting out than minorities do. Its a sad and fucked up fact about our society. Sure, it makes me feel guilty because I’m a human being who empathizes with others. So if you don’t feel bad about the fact that millions of people in American alone are screwed because of their skin color, there is something wrong with you. Bringing up your Credentials as Not One of Those White People is not helping because whether you like it or not, whether you admit or not, you have an easier existence in our society because of your skin. It makes you look like a privileged asshole to be honest. Because you must be different or better than those White People Who Get Ahead Due to Skin Color shows that you really don’t fucking get it. All white people have advantages of their skin color, accept it so you can stop being part of the problem. Yes, you are part of the problem because any time a minority person brings this topic up they get to deal with straight up racists and your blubbering about not being a Guilty White person. Do you really think whining to them about how you’re so fucking special and can’t be lumped in with the other White People is helping? FFS.
    -
    When I get out of this cycle am I going to gladly exclaim how I did all by myself, how anyone else could do it to? Nope, that’s more stupidity. Because you don’t get out all on your own, it is very much the help of your community to get out. That’s why its so hard to get out. There’s no net in America so getting out of poverty, or at least out of shelter is very much due to luck. Yep, luck because guess fucking what? It takes a whole hell of a lot of work just to survive while poor. So shove your Credentials, your bootstraps, your posturing, all your “But I’m not a racist, I’m a good White person” white privilege and shove it up your ass to use as butt plug. It will at least be useful there. Remember to leave it in all the time so it’s still harmful but only to you.

  169. 169
    Zeppelin

    As a German caucasiologist I would like to say that I always have to adjust my brain slightly whenever english speakers call white people “Caucasian”.
    Not only has that particular theory of racial origins been discredited for about a hundred years, Caucasians don’t even look particularly “white”. They’re sort of brownish. In fact, they look more or less like them Ay-rabs.

  170. 170
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    For those complaining that, yes, they’re white, but they grew up poor, yada yada yada… You have white privilege, but you do not have/did not grow up with economic/class privilege. Two distinct, though not entirely unrelated, issues.

    The sociological term for the interplay of different privileges and lack thereof is intersectionality.

  171. 171
    genjcchristian

    You really pissed him off. He’s writing angry, threatening emails to my advertisers I’m being persecuted like Rush Limbaugh! It ain’t easy being America’s greatest patriot.

  172. 172
    Inaji

    genjcchristian:

    He’s writing angry, threatening emails to my advertisers I’m being persecuted like Rush Limbaugh!

    Goodness me. He’s just chock full of angry, white frothiness.

  173. 173
    Jerry

    Gen Fury said,

    My argument is that if you are one of those people who have those privileges like tarred roads, a house to live in etc. etc., you can not simply claim that it was entirely due to your own or your ancestors’ doing.

    and

    My point continues to be that, taken into account humanity’s history of enslavement and exploitation, it is beyond absurd to claim that whites are being discriminated against. There is no way to sustain such a claim or even reconcile it with reality.

    The problem I have with your arguments is that you claim for me and all other white people that everything I gained is due in large part to exploitation of colored people
    (true, *if* I have to take the blame for every individual who ever was a racist and didn’t stomp me, and corporations that exploit people, with whom I do business)

    _and_ I try to excuse that by a “bootstraps” argument
    (false)

    or I claim that I am somehow discriminated against ’cause I’m white, like that idiot John King
    (false).

    You are trying to make arguments that whites have privilege (true)
    *and* that all whites try to deny or excuse this (false).

    Now do you see the problem?

    I never made the excuses that you attribute to me and many others. That is the only problem. That is my sole objection. Not the white privilege concept. Get it now, Gen?

    How about you, Sally Strange, and you, Just-a-lurker with your scary threats? Get it?

  174. 174
    JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness

    Jerry

    The problem I have with your arguments is that you claim for me and all other white people that everything I gained is due in large part to exploitation of colored people.

    Society is largely been built off the exploitation of colored people. White people gain more from society = white people benefit more from the exploitation of colored people, especially when you factor in white privilege you still receive.
    Even your European heritage you parade out has dealt with the exploitation of others, so it still applies even if the specific example of owning slaves is incorrect.

    (true, *if* I have to take the blame for every individual who ever was a racist and didn’t stomp me, and corporations that exploit people, with whom I do business)

    What is with you and this hang up on blame/guilt? No one here is bringing that up.

    Your demand for an apology regarding the generalization, the hang up on blame/guilt, the “been stomped by racists” comment (do you want a cookie?) and hang up on being exploited by corporations just fucking screams white privilege.

    _and_ I try to excuse that by a “bootstraps” argument

    You brought up your First Generation American who made it all by yourself and doesn’t want guilt/blame for what happened previously is a standard blueprint for a bootstrapping argument.

    or I claim that I am somehow discriminated against ’cause I’m white, like that idiot John King
    (false).

    Again, it reeks of white privilege, just re-read that part above.

    You are trying to make arguments that whites have privilege (true)

    ok…

    *and* that all whites try to deny or excuse this (false)

    Omfg lord, who said this? People have said they are tired of white people doing those things, does that equate to all white people to you? You are going on about an admitted generalization regarding the benefit from racist past of society, in which you display white privilege defending all White People valiantly against reality. The odds are not in your favor.
    Perhaps pathetically is better word.

    you, Just-a-lurker with your scary threats? Get it?

    Mwhahahaha. My “scary” threats? Tell me you are being sarcastic here, but I have a feeling we will be going down the tone troll road. Honestly, if you think mine are scary wait til the rest of the Horde joins in.

  175. 175
    dianne

    The problem I have with your arguments is that you claim for me and all other white people that everything I gained is due in large part to exploitation of colored people

    There, there, dear. I’m sure you do work hard for your accomplishments. Have a cookie.

    Has it occurred to you that the fact that you do work for your achievements and earn them doesn’t negate the fact that you also benefit from a massive amount of racism, past and present? No one is expecting you to reverse thousands of years of racism overnight, but at least start by acknowledging that there’s a problem.

  176. 176
    Gen, Uppity Ingrate and Ilk

    Jerry, Jerry. Still whining, Jerry?

    Why are you so very invested in this? Why are you so very, very offended that someone who you don’t know from a hole in the ground, on the internet, during the course of an admitted generalization, may have impugned upon your preshus efforts, or whatever the fuck it is that’s got you so upset?

    Seriously, ask yourself why you are reacting so violently defensive. Because in my experience, this level of defensiveness usually equals a shit ton of unrecognized privilege

    Here’s a cluestick:

    The problem I have with your arguments is that you claim for me and all other white people that everything I gained is due in large part to exploitation of colored people
    (true, *if* I have to take the blame for every individual who ever was a racist and didn’t stomp me, and corporations that exploit people, with whom I do business)

    True so far. Like you said, we don’t have the option to opt out, but being aware of this fact is important.

    _and_ I try to excuse that by a “bootstraps” argument (false)

    Dude, I nowhere said anything about you, Jerry, specifically. Why are you so invested in this? Fuck me, if you don’t use the bootstraps argument because you recognize it for the shit it is, good for you! Have a fucking You’re A Swell White PErson cookie, for fuck’s sakes!

    So no. YOu are misrepresenting what I said. Please quote exactly where I said that you, Jerry, used the bootstraps argument, or STFU about your hurt fee-fees over something I didn’t even say.

    or I claim that I am somehow discriminated against ’cause I’m white, like that idiot John King
    (false).

    Once again, you are blatantly lying about what I said. Quotes or GTFO.

    You are trying to make arguments that whites have privilege (true) *and* that all whites try to deny or excuse this (false).

    And once AGAIN, you are out-and-out lying here. Quotes or GTFO.

  177. 177
    Ing

    Has it occurred to you that the fact that you do work for your achievements and earn them doesn’t negate the fact that you also benefit from a massive amount of racism, past and present?

    The fact that you’re able to work for achievements and EARN any of them is due to privilege. There are people who due to the crime of their birth have no avenue for earning anything from their efforts.

  178. 178
    Jerry

    Look, folks, this started as a defense against Gen Fury’s overblown claim that any house a white person lives in was built using slave labor. I argued against it. He took that back. Good- thank you, Gen Fury.

    I made some overblown arguments myself in response to Gen Fury, which I take back. I apologize to Gen Fury.

    As far as the white privilege stuff. Yes, there is white privilege. I benefited from it, as did all other white people. I never denied it. (I don’t need a cookie.)

    As far as exploitation of African resources and those of other colored people, all human beings who live in industrialized countries benefit from it. Do white people benefit from those resources more than people of color in the same society? Debatable, for the same socioeconomic status. Do white people benefit more in general than people of color? Likely yes, given the societal imbalance. (So where is the argument?)

    I never said that “I did it all myself” bootstrap garbage. Other people here read that into what I wrote, but I did not say it nor even implied it. I acknowledge that my family, my friends, my society (regardless of color), all had a hand in my upbringing and education and career. I could not change society as a young student (many years ago) to remove racial intolerance and privilege, but now I can at least help. I owe society a debt that I cannot pay back, but I can pay now and pay forward to future generations. Is that clear enough?

    Some may think I set up that bootstrap argument, but I never intended to do so. If you think so, then perhaps what I said here clears it up.

  179. 179
    Cipher

    Make way! Offended privilege coming through!

  180. 180
    Inaji

    CC:

    Make way! Offended privilege coming through!

    Not to mention one hell of a bloated ego. Yo, Jerry! First rule of holes – learn it.

  181. 181
    dandi

    Is this where I pick up my official White Guy Sackcloth ‘N’ Ashes™? The lady down the hall says it is.

  182. 182
    Cipher

    Yeah, dandi, from what I understand, you’ll need it to complement your official White Guy Persecution Complex™

  183. 183
    dandi

    [i]There, there, dear. I’m sure you do work hard for your accomplishments. Have a cookie.

    Has it occurred to you that the fact that you do work for your achievements and earn them doesn’t negate the fact that you also benefit from a massive amount of racism, past and present? No one is expecting you to reverse thousands of years of racism overnight, but at least start by acknowledging that there’s a problem.[/i]

    I’m sure this individual you were addressing appreciates the snark. Way to connect with someone.

    You have to come from a position of privilege to begin with, I mean [i]real[/i] privilege, not the you-won’t-get-as-many-years-if-you’re-arrested type “privilege” that you ascribe to all whites, in order to navel gaze and self-flagellate about this vaunted “white privilege” some of you obsess over. Most of us poor, dumb schmucks out here are working too hard just to get by to indulge ourselves in White Guilt.

  184. 184
    dandi

    You wish, Cass. Unfortunately for you, I just can’t muster the same level of self-hate you’d like to lay on all us oppressive white dudes. I know you really want to be seen as being “down with the struggle” and all that, but most of you dilettantes come across a little clumsily, like a puppy trying too hard to run on a freshly waxed floor. It’s why no one takes you seriously.

  185. 185
    Ing

    prediction: dandi is racist.

    That is all.

  186. 186
    Cipher

    You have to come from a position of privilege to begin with, I mean [i]real[/i] privilege, not the you-won’t-get-as-many-years-if-you’re-arrested type “privilege” that you ascribe to all whites, in order to navel gaze and self-flagellate about this vaunted “white privilege” some of you obsess over. Most of us poor, dumb schmucks out here are working too hard just to get by to indulge ourselves in White Guilt.

    Yep! Everyone here is upper-middle-class, white, and doesn’t work hard. Plus, super guilty, for some reason.

    You must be new.

  187. 187
    Inaji

    dandi:

    You have to come from a position of privilege to begin with, I mean [i]real[/i] privilege, not the you-won’t-get-as-many-years-if-you’re-arrested type “privilege” that you ascribe to all whites, in order to navel gaze and self-flagellate about this vaunted “white privilege” some of you obsess over. Most of us poor, dumb schmucks out here are working too hard just to get by to indulge ourselves in White Guilt.

    Oh look, it’s another idiot. “White Guilt”* has nothing at all to do with privilege, fuckwit. Try not to talk about things you don’t understand.
     
    *You seem to be utterly ignorant of the fact that the internet is global in nature and many people you are reading are non-USians aaaaaaaand many people you are reading aren’t white. They manage to grok the concept of privilege just fine. Dandily, even.
     
    Protip: This is where a smart** person would stop being a condescending, willfully ignorant asspimple and go forth on the ‘net and educate themselves.***
     
    **html, how does it fucking work? Answer: not at all if you’re dandi.
     
    ***Not that I’m expecting this from you, Cupcake.

  188. 188

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