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Andrew Wakefield lashes out

Poor Andy. Once upon a time, he had the power to kill children just by doing some very bad science and writing a few very bad papers, and now he’s reduced to living in Texas and being supported by mobs of New Age cranks. He’s powerless and bored, but his ego is still being inflated by sycophants…so what does he do? He decides to sue the British Medical Journal and journalist Brian Deer for defamation.

He has no medical career left. His entire life is now tied to his anti-vaccine crusade, and he’s got nothing to contribute, other than his status as a martyr to the cause, so what he’s done now is crawled up on a cross and is asking for more nails to be hammered in. He knows he can’t lose in the grand scheme of things; if he wins the court case (which won’t happen), he’s a hero; if he loses (the inevitable result), he’s a victim of the evil forces of Big Pharma, and his defeat proves that the bad guys are out to get him, so he must be right.

Orac explains why he’s going to lose the court case.

I find it very amusing that Dr. Wakefield claims his “professional reputation” was damaged by Deer’s most recent article The reason, of course, is that Dr. Wakefield’s reputation was destroyed by his having done and publicized his bad science, by his having intentionally consorted with the antivaccine movement and continued (in my opinion) to crank out bad science in the service of smearing the MMR with the claim that it causes autism. Wakefield destroyed his own reputation by doing fraudulent science. That happened years before Brian Deer ever wrote that BMJ article a year ago. Wakefield had already been found guilty by the General Medical Council of “serious professional misconduct,” which included acting in ways not in the clinical interests of disabled children. Shortly after that, he was struck off the medical register, and fired from Thoughtful House. All of this happened many months before Brian Deer wrote his article.

To but it bluntly, Andrew Wakefield no longer had any professional reputation to be trashed. This will be a major problem for him in any libel action, because one has to prove damage to one’s reputation to be successful in a libel suit.

Just wait, though. When his case is thrown out, he’ll throw himself into the arms of his sympathetic supporters, and they will respond with more affirmations and more money and more status in his movement.

(Also on Sb)

Comments

  1. raven says

    He decides to sue the British Medical Journal and journalist Brian Deer for defamation.

    I’ve dealth with Brian Deer before. He is one of the great journalists.

    In some New Agey communities, vaccine coverage is 75%. This is getting low enough to be alarming.

    Already there have been mini-epidemics of whooping cough and measles. There are going to be more.

  2. says

    I propose a new rule, anyone who strikes a self-serving martyr pose should be, in fact, martyred. For example, anyone saying “I’m being crucified by big pharma,” without any justification to the claim, should actually be crucified.

    First, it would benefit society, because the rate of these self-infected victims would greatly decrease, thus allowing actual victims to be more apparent.

    Secondly, it would benefit the reputation of those self-serving martyrs. Wakefield’s reputation is in the crapper because he lied. Thus, actually crucifying him would turn one of his previous lies to a half-truth, and thus improve his reputation.

    It’s a win-win situation.

    Sasquatch Jesus

  3. says

    The more I see this sort of stupidity the more I’m amused by the irony of our species name.
    Maybe if we changed it to Homo sapiens sapiens sapiens it would help.

  4. robro says

    Perhaps Mr. Wakefield should sue himself. He seems to have done a splendid job of destroying his career and he should have to pay for it.

    Actually, Mr. Wakefield should be careful about litigation as he might be subject to some himself, if not criminal prosecution for the injury and death of any number of people, many children, due to his “research.”

  5. submoron says

    Deer has, in fact, been undermining Wakefield ever since 2004 and his Sunday Times articles played an important part in bringing the quack down in the first place. Why he’s suing over this particular article I can’t imagine. “Dead duck sues hunter for plucking him”?

  6. pedagogue says

    Maybe Andrew is write about vaccine. It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them. We need to think about the kids here, gang. If you just and stop judging without cause you may have learned something from Mr. Wakefield. I’m not too familiar with his work but I think I may read some when I’m off working. thank you. I’m not try to ruffle any feathers but it’s an honest opinion.

  7. pedagogue says

    I’m not trying too. Maybe I need to read more about him before i comment, I just thought people nee too be more positive. i don’t know much about the vaccine stuff but medicine is bad quite a lot and I’m guessing these are to. sorry, don’t want an argument or anything.

  8. truthspeaker says

    It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them

    Why do you think it’s likely when all the data say otherwise?

  9. says

    It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them

    Those recent studies finding genetic markers for autism are so annoying aren’t they?

  10. says

    @Pedagogue

    a) Autism far predates vaccination.
    b) No mechanism is found for vaccination inducing it (Wakefeild’s is laughable and basically amounts to something something digestive system something something thus autism)
    c) Pretty sure people don’t get autism at age 11…not how it works.
    d) Within last two years, big break through in genetics on it.
    e) To give them a bone the allegid toxic elements from vaccines were removed; no affect on autism rate and the critics just changed their mind about what caused it
    f) Wakefeild is a known fraud who was doctoring evidence against a vaccine while working on a competing one for his own profit, colluded with lawyers to sue his rivals and to do so experimented on children with processes that I believe including some not very comfortable ones.
    g) Cost risk analysis indicates that even IF vaccines caused autism they are still the net good. Saying otherwise is basically saying that those with autism might as well be dead because any trade off of autism is offset by reduced deaths from some of the worst diseases to plague man
    h) All evidence points to genetics and developmental…you most likely are born autistic or not
    i) Like I said above, autism is a wide spectrum condition. Some of it is debilitating, some of it isn’t. This debate is dehumanizing to these people and treats them as if they’re defective merchandise.

  11. anteprepro says

    Pedagogue, be more careful in the future. Drugs do sometimes have bad side effects. Vaccines occasionally infect people with the disease they are supposed to inoculate them against, for example (which is due to the fact that vaccines are weaker versions of the relevant pathogen(s)). But the idea that there is an effect of vaccines on autism has been debunked rather thoroughly in various studies, and is now only an idea that gets circulation amongst cranks or the misinformed (like ID and climate change denialism). As Ing already alluded to, there is a big genetic factor to autism . And although there are established environmental factors, vaccines are not one of them. Consider yourself slightly more informed :)

  12. pedagogue says

    @we ar ing- Regarding h). I was not born autistic, I was just saying what i thought was write. I heard a show where some people were being interviewed about autism and vaccine and it kind of freaked me out. It was an actor or a news lady, i’m not sure which. But i have 4 kids under the age of 11 and i was so worried that i threw away all of my vitamins. My sister said i didn’t need to do that so i felt pretty dumb. Thank you for the list of facts. I’ll try to do more research.

  13. says

    collective you not individual you. As in you are either with us or against us.

    Also the woman was probably Jenny McCarthy. If you need any more evidence that she’s not to be trusted she believes her son was CURED of Autism.

    Or that he never had it and is an Indigo Child (x-man basically).

    You have less to worry about with your children, autism is very likely in the industrial world to be caught and is more manageable. We don’t throw everyone with autism in asylum anymore. Many autistic people have gone on to contribute greatly (and there is some semi-plausible arguments that other historical figures were undiagnosed but that’s not really demonstrable)

    The truth is the entire vaccine fear came from Wakefeild who was involved in a deliberate plot to scam people. His original ploy was to discredit a rival drug while coming out with his own version and reap profits. And to do so he worked with lawyers whose clients wanted to sue the drug company for their kids autism (or presumed autism…some I believer were not actually autistic) and went to Wakefeild so that he would come up with evidence.

  14. says

    Oh I almost forgot. The idea of vaccines being a ploy by big pharma is implausible as vaccines a) prevent diseases that you could treat, meaning you loose potential profits from just curing it and b) it’s not really their biggest seller.

    Even some of the biggest Big Pharma people who undeniably do evil things, also do things that are unquestionably positive and charitable, either out of actual altruism (they are made up of both businessmen and people who want to actually make medicine to help people after all) or desire for good PR.

    Merck I believe has a program to give away free supplies of an effective but unprofitable drug to the third world

  15. joed says

    @10 pedagogue
    “If you just and stop judging without cause you may have learned something from Mr. Wakefield. I’m not too familiar with his work but I think I may read some when I’m off working…”

    Pedagogue, yes that is our duty isn’t it…to investigate and learn what we can about these issues. it takes work to learn something.
    however, seems the great majority of commenters at this site are not “judging without cause”. actually, huge amounts of evidence show Mr. Wakefield to be dishonest in his “research”. Has this dishonesty lead to harm to children and adults–probably.
    pedagogue check out this Wakefield guy. If you find any fairly objective material that shows this article to be in error i would really like to see it.
    and, yes we may learn something from Me. Wakefield, but will we be able to cast off our cultural nonsense and go with the evidence.
    thanks

  16. pedagogue says

    It sounds like this Wakefield character is a pretty bad dude. I just thought everyone was being negative. I didn’t realize he was trying to scam anyone. I guess i fell for it. At first i thought he was the pitcher from the Red Sox, then i realized his that that was Tim Wakefield. I just get caught up and don’t think sometimes. I’m not to familiar with an Indigo child. Is that the thing where your skin is slightly bluish? I know some of the xman were blue. I saw a picture of a guy who’s skin was blue from a contact with chemicals or something. i thought that it maybe had a connection to the chemicals in vaccine. Not before, but just now

  17. says

    Indigo children is a pseudoscientific[1] label given to children who are claimed to possess special, unusual and/or supernatural traits or abilities. The idea is based on New Age concepts developed in the 1970s by Nancy Ann Tappe. The concept of indigo children gained popular interest with the publication of a series of books in the late 1990s and the release of several films in the following decade. A variety of books, conferences and related materials have been created surrounding belief in the idea of indigo children and their nature and abilities. These beliefs range from their being the next stage in human evolution or possessing paranormal abilities such as telepathy to the belief that they are simply more empathic and creative than their peers.

    Although there are no scientific studies to give credibility to the existence of any indigo children, or their traits, the phenomenon appeals to some parents whose children have been diagnosed with learning disabilities and parents seeking to believe that their children are special. This is viewed by skeptics as a way for parents to avoid proper (and generally pharmaceutical) pediatric treatment or a psychiatric diagnosis which implies imperfection. The list of traits used to describe the children has also been criticized for being vague enough to be applied to almost anyone, a form of the Forer effect. The phenomenon has been criticized as a means of making money from credulous parents through the sales of related products and services.

  18. Brian says

    I just thought everyone was being negative. I didn’t realize he was trying to scam anyone.

    As it says in the original article, the man’s effectively been thrown out of the medical profession entirely. There was, in fact, many good reasons for doing that. They don’t do that to just anybody.

    (It’s a very common aspect of human psychology — when people come into the middle of, say, a decades-long issue playing out, we usually assume that one quick summary of the situation has more or less brought us up-to-date, and the parts we still don’t know about can’t be too important.)

  19. says

    Also Wakefeild was not only a doctor but like I said he was making his OWN vaccine. There is no way his acts are anything but conscious.

    This is a man who deliberately plotted out a scheme to enrich himself, knowing full well that it put children at risk of death or maiming from horrible diseases like polio and mumps, and now is hailed as a hero from these people.

    Yes the same people who say that there are doctors out there who will intentional endanger or poison children for profit, are so fucking stupid they can’t see that their fucking hero is exactly that sort of monster.

  20. Brownian says

    I just thought everyone was being negative.

    And so what if we are? Does the sky become purple if I say it’s blue negatively?

    My father nearly bankrupted my family multiple times because he was unable to examine potential investments critically, all due to his obsession with thinking positively. Scammers saw him coming a mile away and fed him bullshit, telling him he just needed to think positively. That’s what scammers do. They make you feel as if you’re a bad person for questioning them.

    Forget about being ‘negative’ or ‘positive’. Such attitudes have little to do with critical thinking.

  21. anteprepro says

    My father nearly bankrupted my family multiple times because he was unable to examine potential investments critically, all due to his obsession with thinking positively. Scammers saw him coming a mile away and fed him bullshit, telling him he just needed to think positively. That’s what scammers do. They make you feel as if you’re a bad person for questioning them.

    Over the past few days, there has been a commercial for Mitt Romney’s campaign airing that talks about how Obama is such a pessimistic president, and that Romney will bring back the optimism and belief in the American dream that we all need. And Obama himself campaigned on Hope and Change. The general public’s uncritical love of positive thinking makes me all the more bitter.

  22. pedagogue says

    @Brownian-What’s wrong with being positive? Your dad just seemed like a dipshit. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. My dad sold cement and never read one book. I’m not sure if he could even read. Once i asked him to help me read the Black Pearl and he said i was being fancy. My dad was a dipshit too. We’re in the same boat. I’m sorry if i put you in a bad mood.

  23. pedagogue says

    My dad was also a chaperone at the homecoming dance and he called me a queer in front of everyone.

  24. jerthebarbarian says

    pedagogue @32:

    What’s wrong with being positive?

    Let’s read what you wrote @10, shall we?

    It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them. We need to think about the kids here, gang.

    I can think of a few things that are wrong about being positive if it leads you to thinking like this. I mean really – “maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt because maybe vaccines really do cause autism despite all the evidence to the contrary and the only evidence in support of the claim turning out to be faked.” Yup – that’s the POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING.

    My dad was a dipshit too.

    You know, just assume that there’s a scathing remark here about apples and trees and how far they tend to fall.

  25. anteprepro says

    Pedagogue, Brownian explained the problem with being obsessed with positive thinking over critical thinking: It makes you easy to sucker.

  26. stonyground says

    Sorry to be OT but Peter Hitchens has said some nasty things about atheists, been called out on them by Greta Christina, and is now being used as a chew toy by Greta’s accolytes. He is completely out of his depth and it is quite entertaining. Can this guy really be Christopher Hitchens’ brother?

  27. pedagogue says

    We had a pecan tree and my dad used to say “I hate pecans.” I asked him why he planted one then and he told me it was there when we moved in. About being positive, I was pretty positive after moving out of my parents house and it didn’t get me anywhere at first. then i got a job at a grocery store and i didn’t like it but i was still positive about life and now i work at the department of motor vehicles. I didn’t get there by luck, it was positive thinking and the idea that i could make something with my life. i also have foster kids, can any of you say the same?

  28. naturalcynic says

    Sounds like he has been inspired by the antics and successes of uber-crank Vice-count Monckton. Perhaps it is a desperate attempt at a bluff. It would be less costly than taking the case all the way to a trial and the outcome would be the same. The groupies will be enthralled by his bravery in threatening the establishment and they will forgiving when the strength of big Pharma makes the case “disappear”.

  29. anteprepro says

    I didn’t get there by luck, it was positive thinking and the idea that i could make something with my life

    Wow, full-on optimism fetish. Look, you don’t have to constantly view the world with rosy-tinted glasses and spew self-help platitudes at yourself in order to make something of yourself. And you don’t have to be a bitter person who hates everything about everything and constantly looks for something to complain about in their lives as the only alternative. Try for a balance.

    . i also have foster kids, can any of you say the same?

    Oh, fuck off.

  30. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    [Off topic, sorry]
    This whole positive thinking sounds like just another way to make one feel guilty for going trough a rough time in life. Would you dare tell a depressed person that they just need to think more positively?

  31. pedagogue says

    @anteprepro- What do you mean “rosy tinted glasses?” And it’s not a fetish, it’s a way to feel good about yourself when other people bring you down or call you a queer or a morphodite (whatever that is). I don’t need that form anybody. why are you starting fights? I just gave my opinion and got attacked. Foster kids is a great way to supplement an income. all of these big govt. cutbacks and recession related issues are causing the DMV to not give me overtime.

  32. pedagogue says

    @gragra- I admit i didn’t have my stuff together when i first posted but I feel strongly about positive thinking. I came to this site because i wanted to know more about vaccine and autism connections. Sometimes if you think positive like you guys do about there being no connection, it makes you feel like you’ve made a difference. That was all i was saying. I didn’t want to start no fights.

  33. says

    Pedagogue: I am able to track you on the internet, and found some of your other contributions elsewhere, and the evidence suggests that either you are very young or you have a disability. This is not the place for you. For your own protection, I’m banning you: I will not be placing a comment about you in the dungeon page, because this is a removal without prejudice. Run along and play somewhere else, OK?

  34. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    gragra,

    After reading pedagogue’s #44, I think you might be right. Or at least I hope you are, and this person is not for real.
    Not being able to string a proper sentence together or spell simple words, but then writing morphodite correctly got me suspicious and then this bullshit about fostering kids for the money. That’s gotta be a joke (please let it be a joke).

  35. Vicki says

    No, I don’t have foster kids. I do freelance editing.

    I never would have thought of those as comparable, but if you’re advocating fostering because the DMV won’t give you overtime it might be time to look for a second job that doesn’t involve vulnerable children.

  36. Brownian says

    Your dad just seemed like a dipshit. It’s nothing to be ashamed of.

    Who said I was? I learned a lot from him. A fair portion of it, but not all, falls into the category of “what not to do.”

    Would you dare tell a depressed person that they just need to think more positively?

    OMG, do so many people do exactly that.

    I came to this site because i wanted to know more about vaccine and autism connections.

    Really? Because this is your first comment: Maybe Andrew is write about vaccine. It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them. We need to think about the kids here, gang. If you just and stop judging without cause you may have learned something from Mr. Wakefield. I’m not too familiar with his work but I think I may read some when I’m off working. thank you. I’m not try to ruffle any feathers but it’s an honest opinion.

    That’s not “wanting to learn more”. That’s “wanting to give the opinion I’ve already formed”.

    I just gave my opinion and got attacked.

    You know what opinion counts for in when we’re talking about the facts of autism and vaccines?

    Absolutely fucking zilcho. Because neither positive thinking nor your opinions cure polio.

    Anyways, this is what it feels like to be “learning more”. It’s very different than getting a back pat for ‘having an opinion’, isn’t it? Now that you know the difference, you can be a little more honest about whether you want to to know more or whether you simply want to give your uninformed opinion and not get grief for it.

  37. Ermine says

    …Wow.

    Well, pedagogue has been preemptively binned, so I won’t say any more. He was setting himself up for a serious piling-on, and piling on the wrongness with each post! You probably saved us from a complete derail, PZ, although it would likely have gotten the entire Wakefield story dragged out in its entirety again.

    Carry on!

  38. andyo says

    I would just like to know how having foster children helps with income. I’m a little tight on money right now.

  39. Brownian says

    Ugh, that’s what I get for not refreshing before posting.

    Nonetheless, I find it difficult to square what PZ suspects about pedagogue’s youth or disability and hir own comments about fostering kids.

    Oh, well.

  40. says

    I do too. But I checked into other places where he’d contributed, and from his interests and his writing he seems to have a mental age of about 12.

  41. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    Would you dare tell a depressed person that they just need to think more positively?

    OMG, do so many people do exactly that.

    I guess I have led a very sheltered life, the way petty evilness of people keeps surprising me.

  42. frankb says

    I didn’t realize he was trying to scam anyone. I guess i fell for it. At first i thought he was the pitcher from the Red Sox,

    When I got to that point in comment #25, I knew there was something wrong with pedegogue. He/she didn’t seem malicious. I am glad PZ banned him/her without prejudice.

  43. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Gasp, PZ isn’t totally evil???

    I think he made a good call with pedagogue. I saw something amiss with its first post.

  44. Brownian says

    I guess I have led a very sheltered life, the way petty evilness of people keeps surprising me.

    You didn’t ask, but ye shall receive anyway: there’s one on Pharyngula doing it now (or earlier today, at least).

    They never seem to ask themselves if it’s perhaps the existence of so many morons, running around free, smiling their fucking “if ignorance is bliss then I’m fucking ecstatic” smiles that causes so much anxiety.

  45. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    PZ is under the thumb of Big Pharma?

    .I.did.not.know.that.

    Ah, those of us under the thumb of Big Pharma are still waiting for our checks…Along with those of AGW consortium, the evolution consortium, etc…

  46. David Marjanović says

    Maybe if we changed it to Homo sapiens sapiens sapiens it would help.

    Not possible. Homo sapiens is our species, Homo sapiens sapiens is our subspecies (which only makes sense if you recognize the Neandertalers as another subspecies – and not as another species). The type subspecies must repeat the name of the type species, and there is no rank below subspecies.

    What we could do is name ourselves Homo (sapiens) sapiens sapiens. The name in parenthesis would apply to a so-called “group of species” or “superspecies” (and must repeat the name of its type species). However, that would require recognizing another superspecies, and, well, there aren’t all that many species in Homo (by anyone’s classification) in the first place. Superspecies are almost never used.

    “Dead duck sues hunter for plucking him”?

    + 1

    I’m not too familiar with his work but I think I may read some when I’m off working. thank you. I’m not try to ruffle any feathers but it’s an honest opinion.

    …I know pedagogue is banned, but I’ll use this as a teachable moment…

    It’s not an honest opinion. It’s dishonest to have an opinion about things you don’t know enough about.

    the fact that vaccines are weaker versions of the relevant pathogen(s)

    That’s only true for a few. Most vaccines are dead versions of the relevant pathogen(s) or small parts thereof, sometimes only a part of a single protein.

    I just thought everyone was being negative.

    Has that ever happened?

    That’s a serious question.

    Can this guy really be Christopher Hitchens’ brother?

    Why not? Brothers are often very different.

    a morphodite (whatever that is)

    Try looking up hermaphrodite

    Foster kids is a great way to supplement an income.

    Oh for crying out loud.

    Dude, if you raise kids right, they’re a money sink, no matter what financial aid you get.

    from his interests and his writing he seems to have a mental age of about 12

    It’s really fucking scary that such a person is allowed to have foster kids.

  47. Beatrice, anormalement indécente says

    Brownian,
    I would thank you properly, but I’m busy trying not to punch a hole into my screen, imagining it is viggen111’s head.

    [I might not be depressed. Maybe I really am just very sad, very often. I have never seen anyone about it and I hesitate to make armchair diagnosis about myself, but I can attest that simply trying not to be sad really doesn’t work. It does make me angry at myself for not being better. Which doesn’t really help.]

    *off to read the whole sorry mess that the spirituality thread has turned into*

    Also, sorry for making the thread go even more off topic than it already was.

  48. Irene Delse says

    DM:

    It’s not an honest opinion. It’s dishonest to have an opinion about things you don’t know enough about.

    Indeed. That or a symptom of very low intelligence. Which brings us back to pedagogue.

  49. Azkyroth says

    It’s possible and probably likely that vaccine causes autism in children from 2 to 11 due the vaccine that are currently available to almost anyone who wants them.

    It is “possible” only in the sense of “possible” for which square circles are impossible. It is not plausible, the “supporting evidence” was proven to have been fabricated (for which Wakefield lost his medical license) and there is no remotely sound epidemiological or physiological reasoning supporting it. Neither the nature of autism nor the nature of vaccines is consistent with it being a reaction to an injection, and the only meaningful difference between Wakefield and Josef Mengele is that the former had opportunity and the latter had a concrete monetary as well as a perverse motive.

    Be smarter.

  50. Azkyroth says

    @truthspeaker- I don’t know.

    So, all the data indicates that autism is a primarily genetic condition with possible epigenetic influences utterly unrelated to vaccination, yet you still think it’s “possible, even probable” that vaccines cause it, and you can’t even articulate why.

    I changed my mind. Don’t “be smarter.” Go drink bleach. Think of humanity.

    This debate is dehumanizing to these people and treats them as if they’re defective merchandise.

    THIS.

  51. educatornumerouno says

    Pedagogue? What does that even mean? Anyone who would take in a foster child for money is a real piece of work. More like an eleven year old, in my opinion. He/she needed to be banned. I can’t believe we let an eleven year old punk, with God-awful writing ability and sophomoric interests no less, distract us from the original topic for over four hours. It seems impossible for a group of super-smart forum contributors like us to be so easily duped. Did you read some of those snappy comebacks to pedagogue’s ridiculous posts? Priceless material that would send even the dirtiest troll back under the bridge. It’s like a regular bunch of Al fucking Jaffee’s on this site, how did we let this happen? OK, back to Mr. Andrew Wakefield.

  52. says

    Nerd: I did as well. I suspected troll, honestly, and was surprised that nobody until gragra at #42 voiced any doubts.

    I suspected troll or very young person (right=/=write) but gave 3 post rule.

  53. ambulocetacean says

    Pedagogue? What does that even mean?

    I thought an educator might have already known. Especially the No. 1 educator…

  54. C.C.Fuss says

    Hmm. ‘pedagogue’ is banned. Then ‘educatornumerouno’ suddenly appears, with much better spelling and grammar but equally incoherent and irritating blather. I suspect an unusually purebred specimen of trollus trollus – no agenda but annoying people and disrupting the conversation.

    Anyway, on topic, it’s always been interesting to me that Wakefield types like to complain about how their reputation was damaged by people finding out what they did, as if they had some entitlement to keep an untarnished reeputation regardless of their actions, and that journalists like Brian Deer are out of line in making their fraud and other monstrous conduct generally known.

  55. gragra says

    Based on what PZ said, has anyone considered the possibility that pedagogue might himself be somewhere along the autism spectrum? Maybe that’s why he’s investigating the subject. That might explain the non-sequiturs, although lord knows I’m not an expert.

    I will give him props for saying “I don’t know,” though. If only more people were willing to say that from time to time.

  56. Azkyroth says

    Based on what PZ said, has anyone considered the possibility that pedagogue might himself be somewhere along the autism spectrum? Maybe that’s why he’s investigating the subject. That might explain the non-sequiturs, although lord knows I’m not an expert.

    Fuck you back.

  57. says

    Based on what PZ said, has anyone considered the possibility that pedagogue might himself be somewhere along the autism spectrum? Maybe that’s why he’s investigating the subject. That might explain the non-sequiturs, although lord knows I’m not an expert.

    If you can read, he denied it.

  58. educatornumerouno says

    I’m new to this site and I don’t appreciate being attacked for having an opinion. I’ve been teaching high schoolers(!) for 18 years and I’ve never head such insults.

    As far as my previous comment goes, I was being austere, which most learned people know means facetious.

  59. joed says

    @38 pedagogue

    you seems to have a wonderful sense of humor.
    i am a bit awed by it.
    but, do you do the critical thought thing!

  60. ambulocetacean says

    I was being austere, which most learned people know means facetious

    Um… you are kidding, right?

    If so, nice one…

  61. says

    As far as my previous comment goes, I was being austere, which most learned people know means facetious.

    Oh, now he’s throwing his shit at us. There’s no call for that. Let’s get him!

  62. Irene Delse says

    Wait a minute. Good grammar and typing, “teaching for 18 years”, lecturing us on tone… Wouldn’t that be “militaryhistorian” trying to come back from the dungeon?

  63. educatornumerouno says

    I enjoy this site, particularly the comments section. Social discourse is one of my passions and it’s on display here in its most verbal form.

    Please allow me to digress: One of my kids (my school kids not my actual kids) passed on shingles to me via a simple hand grasp. I went home and unwittingly passed it on my kids (my actual kids, not my school kids.) What I’m getting at is: Shingles, as many of you don’t know, is also known as Neurofibromatosis, and Neurofibromatosis is no laughing matter. Sleeping with one’s head in an upright position is not comfortable, as many of you have experienced when flying coach.

    Sound crazy? Before everyone starts calling names and hurling insults, I will caution you that I graduated with honors from NYU, a proud member of the Ivy League.

    As my screen names suggest I am an educator and I don’t mind passing on my knowledge here. It’s my pleasure to inform you.

  64. Azkyroth says

    As far as my previous comment goes, I was being austere, which most learned people know means facetious.

    Um.

    aus·tere   [aw-steer] Show IPA
    adjective
    1. severe in manner or appearance; uncompromising; strict; forbidding: an austere teacher.
    2. rigorously self-disciplined and severely moral; ascetic; abstinent: the austere quality of life in the convent.
    3. grave; sober; solemn; serious: an austere manner.
    4. without excess, luxury, or ease; simple; limited; severe: an austere life.
    5. severely simple; without ornament: austere writing.

    Well, yes, I would say you’re being severely simple.

  65. says

    I’m new to this site and I don’t appreciate being attacked for having an opinion.

    You aren’t being attacked, Cupcake. Other people are simply expressing their opinions about what you write, which happens to one load of shit after another.

    One thing you are is boring, so you can stop thinking you’re ever so entertaining. You aren’t. On the off chance you aren’t an escapee from the dungeon:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/01/pharyngula-standards-practices/

  66. shouldbeworking says

    Ok educatnumerouno, you win. I’m a humble physics teacher with science degree and an education degree from the Canadian equivalent of your Ivy League. I was labouring under the mistaken impression that shingles was caused by the same virus that causes chickenpox. I’ll shut up and finish marking the quantum physics exams after you double check my marking rubric.

    Stupid foreign education system…

  67. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrel says

    educator:
    First: wat?

    Second:

    Sound crazy? Before everyone starts calling names and hurling insults, I will caution you that I graduated with honors from NYU, a proud member of the Ivy League.

    NYU ain’t Ivy. Try again.

  68. shouldbeworking says

    Does that mean he isn’t going to help with the marking?

    Like I said, foreign education system. You people even play football differently.

  69. Azkyroth says

    Besides, George W. Bush graduated from an Ivy League college and he’s a fucking moron.

  70. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrel says

    (In case anyone’s confused, the Ivy League consists of: Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Yale University. It’s not just any damn school that you happened to attend.)

  71. chigau (私も) says

    Dr. Audley @95
    Dammit.
    You mean East Horseshoe Community College ain’t Ivy League??!?

  72. educatornumerouno says

    I would love to get a word in edgeways and state some of my experiences and opinions before every jumps back in with the trolling and flaming that makes this site so much fun to read.

    You guys really feel like you’re ready to pounce on me for every little hang up you might have about anything and everything. This site is for discussion people not therapy, if you need that, go someplace therapeutic.

    This next bit is going to be very unpopular, I’m sure:

    Atheism when conducted in groups becomes a religion. Therefor anyone participating in this blog is a religious person. I am not a religious person per say, except when I am commenting on this blog (see above.)

    In my school I teach evolution under protest, although I am a firm believer in natural selection. The children enjoy learning how animal life evolved from single cell prokaryotes into something as complicated as the mighty pangolin (regardless as to whether it’s fact or fiction.)

    Don’t hate me, but when I was a child I was fascinated by ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds. These days birds are thought to have evolved from theropods (like the Triceratops), which is a kind of upright dinosaur. When I was growing up birds were just plain birds and no one even wondered why a chicken’s legs looked so much like Godzilla’s(!)

    Thanks for your time. Again whatever you learn from me go ahead and take credit for: it’s our little secret. If I’ve learned anything from my kids it’s that people like to take credit for things.

  73. ambulocetacean says

    Neurofibromatosis is no laughing matter. Sleeping with one’s head in an upright position is not comfortable, as many of you have experienced when flying coach.

    Jock rot is no laughing matter. Having large flakes of crusty skin peeling off under one’s fingernails every time one scratches one’s yambag is not always pleasant, as many of you have experienced while enduring a fungal infection of the scrotum.

    Sound crazy? Before you start calling names and hurling insults, I will caution you that I graduated without honours from a shitty Catholic high school in suburban Melbourne.

    As my screen name suggests I am a walking proto-whale and I don’t mind passing on my knowledge here. It’s my pleasure to inform you. =)

  74. chigau (私も) says

    educatornumerouno
    You misspelled “therefore” or misused “therefor”.
    You’re welcome.

  75. Ariaflame says

    We learned that you are an idiot who makes false assertions.

    We also learned from the #97 post that you’re most likely a creationist also if you think of evolution as fiction. (Claims to believe in natural selection notwithstanding… If you think that natural selection happens, then why not the whole schmeer?)

    Also, trolling? That’s what you’re doing cupcake. Not the regulars.

    ‘There is no need for supernatural explanations of any sort to explain the universe or any part of it’ is not a religion. It has no dogma, or rules, or creed or funny rituals that have to be done. Occasionally there will be in jokes as on this blog, but this will happen wherever you get a community of people and is not in any way dependent on the lack of belief in any supernatural entities. Whether I am posting on here or not I am not religious.

  76. ambulocetacean says

    I was fascinated by ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds. These days birds are thought to have evolved from theropods (like the Triceratops)

    LOL.

  77. shouldbeworking says

    Again whatever you learn from me go ahead and take credit for: it’s our little secret.

    So little, I will need your Bush League college’s best SEM in order to find it.

    I don’t know how to tell you this politely, so I’ll be blunt. You are a fucking moron. Worse, you aren’t even funny. Grab a decaying skunk from the box near the door so you can have something to play with since you don’t have a fucking clue or a sense of humour.

  78. educatornumerouno says

    With the exception of ambulocetacean, each and every one of you took the bait hook, line & sinker.

    Goodnight class: school was just in session.

  79. says

    Don’t hate me, but when I was a child I was fascinated by ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds.

    Yes, I’m very surprised to know that. I myself have always been interested on ornithology, which is the study of pond scum. So as you can imagine, I’m very glad to meet you. I personally attended noted Ivy League member Oregon–where I studied the ivy very closely, having majored in music theory, the study of arachnids.
    That education has qualified me for the post of conductor when we conduct atheism here.
    Did you know trees make the wind blow by waving their branches? I didn’t.
    I could never hate you. In fact, I think I’ll miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

  80. chigau (私も) says

    educatornumerouno
    go to comment #89, click the link and read it.
    or at least read the bit about trolling.

  81. Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrel says

    Educator:
    Learned?

    From you?

    Like that you don’t know that the university that you attended isn’t, in fact, Ivy League? (Awe, it’s gotta sting to take that feather out of your cap. But on the plus side, at least you won’t have to embarrass yourself with that little bit of misinformation any more.)

    This site is for discussion people not therapy, if you need that, go someplace therapeutic.

    Now, I didn’t go to one of them fancy Ivy league learnin’ skoolz, but holy shit, this sentence is a train wreck. I assume you were trying to say something like, “This site is for discussion[,] people not therapy[.] [I]f you need that, go someplace therapeutic to a therapist.”

    What is it that you teach, again?

    Also, piss off. You have no say when it comes to how Pharyngula is used by the commenters.

    Atheism when conducted in groups becomes a religion.

    *Yawn*

    Therefor[e] anyone participating in this blog is a religious person. I am not a religious person per say [se], except when I am commenting on this blog (see above.)

    I, lol, wut?

    So, any group of people is a religion, regardless if they reject religion? Sweetheart, if that’s an example of you reasoning skills, then I weep for your students.

    Scratch that. If you’re a really really real teacher, I’ll eat my hat.

    In my school I teach evolution under protest…

    Why, of course you do. Too chicken shit to actually stand up for what you believe in, eh?

    Don’t hate me, but when I was a child I was fascinated by ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds.

    Why yes, that is quite surprising. Especially when you consider that ichthyology is the study of fish.

    These days birds are thought to have evolved from theropods (like the Triceratops), which is a kind of upright dinosaur.

    Triceratops were four-legged.

    When I was growing up birds were just plain birds and no one even wondered why a chicken’s legs looked so much like Godzilla’s(!)

    Because Godzilla actually existed, don’tchaknow.

    If I’ve learned anything from my kids it’s that people like to take credit for things.

    Honey, you couldn’t pay me to take credit for any of the garbage you’ve written so far. But, good show. I can’t decide if you’re a world-class dumbass or if you’re a Poe.

    Don’t forget to stick the flounce, now!

  82. shouldbeworking says

    He was joking???

    FAIL
    No sense of humour has been detected. Please select an appropriate size of skunk.

  83. says

    Chigau:

    at least read the bit about trolling.

    I’ll spare it the trouble:

    What are the banworthy offenses? Don’t do any of these things:

    Trolling. Are you just here to stir the pot, be unresponsive, and try to get angry responses? Goodbye. I notice when someone is obsessively making comments and doing their best to annoy as many people as possible, and I will end the game.

    Stupidity. You can get away with being stupid for a little while, especially since the other commenters like a chew toy to help keep their teeth sniny. Stupidity gets boring after a while, though, and I reserve the right to end unproductive babbling with the banhammer.

  84. chigau (私も) says

    Got it!
    Without google.
    “morphodite” is what the neighbor-lady called Scout and Jem’s snowman in To Kill a Mockingbird.

  85. Azkyroth says

    With the exception of ambulocetacean, each and every one of you took the bait hook, line & sinker.

    Goodnight class: school was just in session.

    The fact that people who aren’t dishonest and useless tend to not anticipate other people being dishonest and useless is a basic fact of human psychology, not a lesson to be learned.

  86. says

    each and every one of you took the bait hook, line & sinker.

    No, Cupcake. Don’t try and give yourself credit. You didn’t comprehend mine @ 89, did you? Try again:

    One thing you are is boring, so you can stop thinking you’re ever so entertaining. You aren’t.

    You weren’t difficult to read at all, Sugarbrain. You were very boring. We’ve seen much, much better.

  87. SallyStrange, FemBrain in a FemBadge (Bigger on the Inside!) says

    1. Say stupid things

    2. Get made fun of for stupidity

    3. “HAH HAH you thought I was stupid. I win!”

    ????

    I’ll never get this mentality. I guess that’s why I’m not a troll.

  88. ambulocetacean says

    Is pretending to be a cretin worse than actually being a cretin? Or does the act of pretending to be a cretin in itself define one as a cretin?

  89. says

    ichthyology?! Like meta-ROFL, dude! It’s so clever the way you pretend to be obviously stupid. So clever that you might actually have become truly indistinguishable from the genuinely stupid. Spoooooooky.

  90. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Atheism when conducted in groups becomes a religion.

    Show the evidence for our imaginary deity, our holy book, our methods of worship. Or shut the fuck up as a sanctimonious liar and bullshitter.

    Evidence, what separates the rational from the delusional.

    Goodnight class: school was just in session.

    You can’t teach, being a delusional fool. Ergo, no lesson, just stupid inane bullshit.

    Here’s some evidence:

    Neurofibromatosis
    Shingles

    They are not the same. Ergo, you lie.

  91. 'Tis Himself, OM. says

    So what is his visa status int he country?

    He was still a licensed physician when he came to the US so he qualified for an emigrant visa.

  92. says

    each and every one of you took the bait hook, line & sinker.

    Except everyone thought you were the guy who just got banned. There’s just a 3 post rule.

  93. Irene Delse says

    And now, in a not-unexpected move, educatornumerozero tries to dodge the accusation of trolling by pretending that it was a joke all along, haha, fool you!

    Yeah, right.

    Of course, as most trolls who think themselves funny, he tries too hard. NYU in the Ivy League? Mixing “therefor” and “therefore”? Confusing shingles (a.k.a. herpes zoster, an infectious disease) with neurofibromatosis, a genetic disorder? And this immortal nugget, “ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds”??!

    Sorry, pal, April’s Fools is still a long way away.

  94. andyo says

    Re: positive thinking and Poeing.

    I just came across this video (if you don’t know what this is, the scrolling text at the bottom might provide a clue). “Cause those hospitals… boy, they can be negative places!” It poed most of the million and a half youtubers there.

  95. andyo says

    NYU in the Ivy League? Mixing “therefor” and “therefore”? Confusing shingles (a.k.a. herpes zoster, an infectious disease) with neurofibromatosis, a genetic disorder? And this immortal nugget, “ichthyology, which, you’ll be surprised to know, is the study of birds”??!

    Well, maybe not birds, “per say”…

  96. fredbloggs says

    Tell you what…the US can keep andrew wakefield as long as you promise to keep Piers Morgan and take Hugh Grant off our hands as well. I can’t say fairer than that surely?

  97. davidmorris says

    Did England pass libel reform? Because there, in libel cases, the burden of proof lies with the accused.

  98. andyo says

    Tell you what…the US can keep andrew wakefield as long as you promise to keep Piers Morgan and take Hugh Grant off our hands as well. I can’t say fairer than that surely?

    Throw in David Mitchell and you got a deal. You can have Ricky Gervais back until he gets his head off his own ass too.

  99. Forbidden Snowflake says

    David M:

    I just thought everyone was being negative.

    Has that ever happened?

    That’s a serious question.

    It probably didn’t happen literally with *everyone*, but groups of people being more negative than evidence warranted is common enough. Take, to pick a completely random example, the MMR vaccine scare.