President Obama is visiting Kenya and Ethiopia and as is usual when an American president visits a non-European country, he uses the occasion to point out flaws in those countries’ policies and gives them advice on what they should do to improve. In Kenya he highlighted the way women are treated as second-class citizens and later called for the relaxing of curbs on free speech in Ethiopia, among other things.
This telling of other countries how they should behave used to strike me as patronizing but on second thoughts it is perhaps a good thing. Many countries are blind to their own faults and often suppress critical internal voices so it would be a good thing if the leader of every nation, when visiting other nations, took the opportunity to point out all its flaws and give suggestions for improvement.
The catch is that right now while US leaders feel free to do lecture other nations, leaders of other countries don’t do it when visiting the US. I wonder what the reaction would be if a visiting foreign leader to the US lectured it on its police brutality, its massive rate of prison incarcerations for even minor offenses, its death penalty, its treatment of minorities, its woeful social security net, its terrible treatment of whistleblowers, and its policies of bombing and invading other countries.
Well, duh!
What can we do, lead by example?
In Kenya he highlighted the way women are treated as second-class citizens and later called for the relaxing of curbs on free speech in Ethiopia, among other things.
Yeah, because women’s reproductive rights are totally not under attack in the US, and the US totally respects whistleblowers and never assassinates its own citizens for political speech.
Fucking douchebag. He’s better than the other fucking douchebag but that does not make him less of a douchebag.
I wonder what the reaction would be if a visiting foreign leader to the US lectured it on its police brutality[…]
The last time that happened, I believe, was when the French rightly pointed out that the US’ attitude toward Iraq was illegal and aggressive. The US response was brutal: if you recall, “French Fries” in the White House and Executive Office Building, as well as Capitol cafeteria were renamed “Freedom Fries”
In the US, we’re big like that.
As a Dutchman I don’t have problems with Dutch politicians lecturing other countries. What I think hilariouis is the hypocrisy of those very same Dutch politicians when politicians from other countries lecture them. They react as if they are stung by a wasp.
I just can’t stand obama anymore. His Arrogance and sneering at other countries is getting worse and worse. How would he react everytime the world leaders visit US if they lecture and give didactic about how immoral US Gun cultures is, how insane politicians, people and Obama himself to pander to gun nuts and gun manufacturers ?
There are good number of people here in US wanna a nation with less guns, wants gun manufacturers to go bankrupt, we don’t need other country leaders to lecture us. But frigging Obama go and lecture other countries like there are no one in that country to fight against their immorality and oppressions. If he cares and want to do something, first Frigging stop sending arms to all countries, stop supporting terrorists, stop propping up dictators, stop pouring money into opposition groups which supports oligarchy and corporations in their country, and start advising all Good Christians™ to send money for proselytizing.
He himself part of corrupted political system, corruption of rich is legal in US, he is part of it.
Shameless Obama.
Oh please, Obama’s commentary and suggestions were not phrased as a paragon of virtue lecturing a less morally advanced culture. You don’t have to be a saint to state the obvious and suggest that certain issues might need addressing. I didn’t see any sneering.
While we do have a way to go on women’s rights we are doing better than the Nigerians. No need to lord it over anyone but a mention helps to both highlight the issue and encourages existing feminist organization within those nations.
If the standard is that you need to be perfect to mention any issues all communication are going to stop. There are no saints.
Some of the best advice on how to avoid long term issues with alcohol came from a fall-down, black-out drunk. He couldn’t help himself but wanted to warn off those who could be helped. A few months later he died from internal bleeding, brain and GI, caused by a shot out liver. I was one of three at his funeral in a potter’s field.
It also isn’t as if Obama hasn’t tried to improve things in those areas. Sometimes progress was made, sometimes not. You can claim he didn’t do enough, or as much as you thought he should, but efforts were made.
So… Obama makes the exact same type of speech he makes to the US about how the US can improve, but he makes it to another country, and this is him being a sneering arrogant ass? Yeah, Obama never talks about how the US needs to improve, that never happens.
If the standard is that you need to be perfect to mention any issues all communication are going to stop.
No, but if you’re going to say “do as I say, not as I do” it’s fair to acknowledge that you’re not speaking from any position other than “Hey I’m down here in the gutter with you.”
“No, but if you’re going to say “do as I say, not as I do” it’s fair to acknowledge that you’re not speaking from any position other than “Hey I’m down here in the gutter with you.””
Fair enough, except for one thing. I don’t see Obama as asking them to “do as we say, not as we do”. He is suggesting that they do a little of what we have been doing, albeit imperfectly, struggling with these issues.
These issues are difficult. Change is difficult. The best anyone can do is struggle.
Let’s not forget the point of the original post that if the US is going to lecture other countries on how to act irrespective of its own status on those things, then it should welcome lectures by visiting heads of states to the US, even if they are not perfect.
Serious question: Is there a head of state, former or current, who could make such a speech criticizing political
and cultural problems in the U.S. and wouldn’t be outright dismissed?
I’m not sure Tony Blair could do it.
jws1,
I doubt it. No one must challenge the idea that we are the beacon of all that is good and noble.
Well, considering that Obama has addressed most, if not all of those issues at least to the point of acknowledging them and admitting we need to do something, I don’t have a problem with it.
The wrong wing blowhards on the other hand would freak out, because that’s how they react to everything they disagree with, or disagrees with them. Cuz murca is speshul.
@11. jws1 : Bibi Netanyahu, the Queen of England et al or the Pope are three possibilities that spring to mind here.
Assuming you mean former heads of state who are NOT ex-Presidents of the USA.
I just don’t really see any basis at all for the claim that Obama would get upset about someone moralizing in the US. If the head of state in Denmark came over to talk about prison reform, does anyone here seriously think Obama would silence/oppose/criticize/reject him?
kaelik,
It is not what Obama thinks that is the problem. there would be an uproar in Congress and the media (remember “Freedom Fries”?) and Obama would be forced to respond.
I guess I just don’t see the connection between “A bunch of stupid Republicans get mad whenever anyone criticizes the US, and Obama has to patiently explain to them why they are wrong, and the criticism of (for example) our prison system is totally correct.” and “Therefore, Obama shouldn’t tell Kenya to treat women like less shit.”
I get that he is the president of the US, but that doesn’t mean he should be held responsible for the stupid shit other branches do when under other party management, and outside his control or even reasonable influence. You might as well say that I shouldn’t be allowed to decry the death penalty because there exist other people in my profession who I disagree with who think killing people is just dandy.
#11 jws1
Serious question: Is there a head of state, former or current, who could make such a speech criticizing political
and cultural problems in the U.S. and wouldn’t be outright dismissed?
#14
Bibi Netanyahu…
A guy presiding over an apartheid stated, agitating for war against muslims? Oh my.