One of the drawbacks to volunteering at the local theater is that you have to sit through way too many showings of movies you don’t like. I’ve suffered through four showings of Spider-Man: Spiderless New Day so far. I don’t actually sit through the movie, but instead wait in the concessions area, listening to the absurdly loud booming noises.
This may be advantageous as the school year starts — I’ll be able to bring my laptop and gets some work done while simultaneously supporting the theater.
Anyway, now I get to dwell on why I don’t like a Spider-Man movie, and Tom the Dancing Bug captures my feelings.
Where Marvel took a wrong turn was the success of those colossal match-ups where they scrape up every superhero from their long and storied history to fight the big bad guy. So you’ve got the guy who was bit by a radioactive spider, and the guy who turned green (originally gray, I know this because I’m old) from gamma ray exposure, a guy who built a suit of armor, a woman trained as an assassin, a literal god from a pagan pantheon, a sorceror supreme, a guy who can get really big or really small, a guy with a bow and arrow, etc. Individually, I could suspend disbelief to get through a story, but together…total indigestible chaos, that requires an excessive amount of exposition to get us to the point where the central plot even makes any progress. Apparently, the lesson Marvel has learned is that all their movies will be mash-ups of disparate superheroes with unrelated superpowers, and I hate it.
You don’t need that to make a long elaborate science-fiction story. A great counter-example: The Expanse, a multi-episode space opera. There is one key postulate, the contrivance of the unfortunately named Epstein Drive, which allowed a technological society to expand cheaply and rapidly enough to set the stage on which the human drama plays out (I think the bits where they introduce aliens and magical interstellar travel weakens the overall story, because it’s throwing in way too many gimmicks).
The better movie would be one where a relatable human story is told, with one magical being, no more, introduced to complicate events in interesting and novel ways. They aren’t ever going to do that any more. Stories aren’t as important as CGI slam-bam with lots of noise.
All Marvel Studios has learned is that they can slap together three hour movie after three hour movie with barely a plot and 20 minute long fight scenes and people will give them billions for the privilege to watch it. And they’ll keep doing it until the IP is completely run into the ground.
Well what about this from The Burkiss Way? New applicants for the Legion of Superheroes
Well, Invulnerable Boy, we’ve had several people, but none were very suitable for the Legion of Superheroes. First, there was Transvestite Lad. Has the ability to dress up in women’s’ clothes at will. Captain Horlicks. Can make hot malted milk bedtime drinks at will. Commander Lemon. Can change into a lemon at will. And Archive Lass. Can obtain obscure back numbers of the ‘Exchange & Mart’ at will. Erm, none of which would really be a potent deterrent in the event of an unexpected invasion of the galaxy. Unless of course the invasion was from a kinky reader of the ‘Exchange & Mart’ suffering from night starvation and citrus fruit phobias.
Watchmen.
Why don’t Marvel simplify things and save money on actors by introducing Protean Person, who can become any other superhero at will?
Protean Person would need to have multiple personality disorder so they can have multiple backstories.
To each their own.
I like them.
I don’t like talky movies.
Too boring.
Tried The Expanse.
So slow.
Murderbot is perfect (yes, it is not based on a cartoon).
Hard To Be A God (by Strugatsky) was filmed in East Europe but has been shamefully ignored in the west, and is only known by SF nerds.
Frieren, the 1000-year old elf with poor social skills but overpowered magical strength slowly learning life is more than killing baddies has a good cartoon/anime.
A live action TV series/ film would be great, but US companies would fck up, like they did with *Rings of Power.
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Glen Cook has written a lot of material, I especially like his novels about Garrett, a PI in a town infested with magicians. It is too highbrow for Hollywood.
I asked him if he is interested in having translations released in Japan – the otaku crowd would love it and demand anime versions- but at over 80 he has enough jobs on his plate already.
I second Murderbot.
Look up Claire North.
‘Slow Gods’ is SF
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‘The first fifteen lives of Harry August’, and some other novels, are about people with extraordinary ‘powers’, so it would fit into thec’superpower’ narrative.
She has published a lot of other good stuff under pseudonyms. It is a disgrace she is not more widely known.
@ 9, ^ ^ ^
Real name Catherine Webb, pen names Claire North, and Kate Griffin when she wrote about the protagonist Matthew Swift.
Matthew Swift series starts with A Madness of Angels, and The Midnight Mayor. His superpowers are far more interesting than anything in Marvel or DC.
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Anither series. ‘The Authority’ series is interesting. Subversive superheroes stomp on corrupt politicians and corrupt suoerheroes. Apollo and The Midnighter is a gay couple. Jenny Sparks is the ‘spirit of the century’ and can travel by electric conduits and media.
PZ @8
In the books, the world of the space hippies eventually set up an underground railroad in space to help indentured workers (aka slaves) and sapient robots to escape the lawless “corporate rim”, the periphery of human space where big corporations are acting out the worst instincts of Ayn Rand.
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A character that helps Murderbot with this project is the immensely overpowered AI running the research ship Perihelion. (Murderbot calls it A.R.T., for ‘Asshole Research Transport’. He/it thinks ART does too much back-seat driving. )
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Fun fact: Alien relic tech is immensely valuable, and potentially immensely dangerous. The corporations handle it with all the ‘caution’ of The Company in Alien. This leads to depopulated worlds and aggressive things that once were human.
I have to sympathise because you’re effectively being forced to watch these movies: you want to volunteer to help your community, and they make you suffer through movies you dislike. That sucks; I feel for you.
Let me give you my perspective, if only as an anthropological curiosity. I grew up reading DC Comics, plus a smattering of Marvel. I liked the shows – Adventures of Superman, SHAZAM, The Incredible Hulk, Greatest American Hero, Flash – but I always yearned for one quality the comics had: the shared universe. The Batman and Spider-Man movies were fine, but where was the Justice League and the Avengers? Obviously, licensing was the problem.
That all changed in one moment in 2008, in the end credits scene of Iron Man, when Tony Stark is confronted by Nick Fury and told about the Avengers Initiative. Suddenly, the untapped potential opened up! It spilled into DC via the Arrowverse (remember when an un-powered CSI trainee named Barry Allen showed up in Star City? Well no, you don’t – but I do) and suddenly what I was missing was there.
It’s been uneven. For every Black Panther there’s a Guardians Of The Galaxy. Until the newest Superman, DC was unwatchable in movies but inventive on a shoestring budget on TV. And don’t remind me about The Inhumans! But this is what 10-year-old me yearned for, and even as commercial and cliché-ridden as it has to be, I still love it.
You don’t have to. You’re not me. It’s cool. I just hope you see what it means to those of us who loved these characters for all those years.
I find it a bit ironic that this complaint is basically, “So, now big movies are doing the Justice League thing, which comics did ages ago, and which was the literal core premise, in many respects, to the entire X-Men series of comics.” But, sure… you are not entirely wrong about the, “We don’t have 6 issues to use to introduce these characters, like if it was written, how do we do it in 2 hours instead?”, issue that comes up do to this. I think they did a fair job, early on, introducing each one in their own movie (though the Hulk ones where a train wreck in some ways), before cramming them all together, but they seem to have lost track of the need to bloody do this, and/or they introduced some of it on TV, so if you didn’t watch “those”, you would still be running into a mess. Oh, and, Spiderman has been a mess in a lot of ways from the start, because it was never a coherent series in the first place. They didn’t “have” the large scale, league like, story in mind when they started in on them, and everything they did was a scramble to, ironically, make it work by itself – and then they had him wish everyone to no longer remember him, which just reset the whole thing all over again, and left them scrambling to wrap up all the introductions and connection, all over again, in one bloody movie.
A superfluity of superheroes.
Haven’t seen any such movies (nor any at all) for several years, but usually read the reviews/commentary. Am somewhat puzzled by the almost-universal tendency of viewers never to discuss the bad guys or other presumed plot drivers, which – as with James Bond et alia – engage most of whatever imagination goes into each flick.
Only Blade Runner, and probably a few others that I don’t know of, seem to have figured out that developing the “villains” fills out the story.
My biggest issue with the MCU is that everything requires you to have watched 18 other movies and at least 2 seasons of 5 different TV shows.
And also that they’ve been using “look at this character we’ve introduced from a previous franchise” instead of having actual plots.
@7 birgerjohansson
Speak for yourself, I own most of their novels and novellas. As far as I know the English translation was originally translated from the German one instead of the Russian original.
As a native German speaker I just can’t take it seriously. I found Dungeon Meshi the far more compelling and “deep” fantasy story.
As for German fantasy novels, I would give anything for a proper adaptation of the Neverending Story or any of Walter Moers’ Zamonia novels.
I thought a long time ago that the MCU was getting stupidly bloated. I mean, how do you put a talking comic-relief racoon on the same screen as a Norse god and a blind vigilante with super-sensitive hearing? Each one makes sense on their own turf, but together?
But speaking of the death of super-heroes: I assume everyone by now knows about Hayden Panetierre i.e. Claire Bennet on Heroes? Reports I’ve read sound like it was a drug OD.
That’s something I’ve been saying for years now. Isolated superheroes in their own movies can be entertaining. One hero (or team) going up against a similarly powered villain to set up the drama.
But when you start combining all these disparate characters, you need to rebalance everybody’s powers, to where, like you and a few other commenters have already pointed out, you get literal gods like Thor fighting alongside a guy with a bow and arrow like Hawkeye. It messes up the whole balance.
And that’s before you even get into a mess like Avengers: Endgame, where the whole thing felt less like a story, and more just like a giant checklist to make sure they showed every character they needed to (not to mention the feeling of obligation to watch an endless stream movies and series to make sure you’re not missing out important plot points – I don’t need my entertainment to feel like homework).
Am I the only sci-fi nerd that didn’t really care for The Expanse? The most common defense of the show is that it has “realistic gravity” – but the lousiest, laugh-track ridden sitcom has realistic gravity too, but it doesn’t make it good.
They had the makings of some interesting stuff with the class dynamics and the new bifurcations in society based on characteristics common to their world of origin, but they kind of tossed it all to just be “mysterious alien tech” show. And Naomi, who was a strong and interesting character in season one, slowly got nerfed over the course of the show to turn into someone who existed only to cry and act as a focal point for the less-interesting male characters around her (Holden; her ex, “Space Guevara”; and her son) to do things that affected the plot.
Thinking about what I’ve indirectly absorbed of the comic industry, and it’s feeling like the whole “event comic” problem in the theater. Normally, each hero or team get their own books and occasionally a big crossover event that gets a lot of the pantheon involved and interconnected. And provides an excuse for George Perez to show off his ability to draw a massive crowd of superheroes.
The problem is that event comics, supposed to produce increased interest, are too common, pushed my executives who are not writers. Ideally, if you’re interested in one particular hero, the event is supposed to temporarily get them involved with other heroes and give you a taste for them, potentially interesting you in their comic as well. If you do big events too often, and you never get a chance for individual heroes to shine and appeal to their specific fans. In particular, event comics are also an excuse for getting people to buy tie-in issues to fill in the central event comic plot, which leads to resentful fans feeling like they’re being forced to buy a lot more instead of getting a complete event in a single main plot series.
I like the idea of stories and shows that have crossover events, but you have to have each participant stand on their own and face problems on their own or with limited help. Keep the scope more personal so we can care. If the world’s always in crisis, with all super-hands on deck, there’s not going to be much time for a character focus, and it’ll be easy to devolve into the slugfest PZ hates.
You dare, on a post in which I made a sweeping dismissal of a whole popular subgenre of movies I don’t like, to express criticism of a show I did like? Harrrummmph.
OK, I guess we all have to like what we like and dislike what we dislike. What a state for the world to be in.
Just found out a few days ago that Babylon 5 is on Amazon Prime. Dammit, fuck Bezos but I haven’t seen it for 30+ years. I’ve been binge-watching, and it stands up.
Still the best sci-fi series I’ve ever seen, including recent offerings. And the politics is certainly relevant today. Earthgov is Trump (including influence from Shadows). Major difference is that, in the show, some military units refuse to obey unconstitutional orders to bomb people President
TrumpClark doesn’t like.Yeah, Babylon 5 is good. I’m hoping to get a physical copy of the series since it’s apparently fading from availability. I remember getting angry at Earthgov when I watched that arc, and it felt prescient in the wake of 9/11, and it’s only gotten more so. See also: The pathologizing of disagreeing with the government as “Minbari War Syndrome.”
pgator @19, not the only one.
I tried to watch The Expanse, but gave up pretty quickly.
It was boring and kinda silly, what with the eloi and morlocks vibe; to be more precise, the absurdity of a highly advanced, space-faring civilization still relying on manual laborers swinging tools in tunnels like 19th-century coal miners.
(Silly trope, that)
Agreed on the distaste for The Expanse. Spouse and I so wanted to like it, but like three episodes in it still didn’t seem to be getting anywhere, so we quit.
Also echoing the love for B5 (not so much the sequel, though).
Iasius @ 16
“the English translation was originally translated from the German one instead of the Russian original.”
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The same fate as for Polish novels, meaning America still has no ‘proper’ translation of Solaris.
I looked: https://gizmodo.com/solaris-gets-a-new-more-accurate-translation-into-engl-5812648
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FWIW, my favourite is The Futurological Congress which was (so I gather) masterfully translated by Michael Kandel in 1974.
[ack! copypaste failure; bugger it, the whole bit this time]
FWIW The Expanse series was recently shown on free to air telly (SBS Viceland) here and I loved it. have read one of the books Lerviathan Wakes as well. Would recommend both. Didn’t think they were too slow at all. Subjective natch.
The idea that the Expanse is weaker for the strange alien tech seems wild to me – I feel like, really, the entire pitch of the first two-three seasons is a collision between the more grounded and political space travel world and a completely outside-context, alien problem that disrupts everything about that grounded environment. (That said, I do agree it gets weaker around the magical interstellar travel part.) It’s a weirdly good example of one magical element, and I don’t remotely think that element is the Epstein Drive!
That said, I don’t think every story should work that way. If you’re doing one thing, explore that one thing in detail! If exploring that isn’t what the story is about, then… you can have more things! You don’t need as much space for each.
I like the Spider-Man movie for doing that in a way that feels more like a more “regular” comic book crossover – yeah, these characters who hang around in New York doing their own separate things also see each other! It’s a lot less busy with characters than the last Avengers films were! Meanwhile, I’m very much not enthused by what we’ve seen of the upcoming Doomsday – because there are too many people, they need less space for each thing but not no space*. There’s not enough setup to do this kind of story as Everyone And Their Mother From Everywhere, and avoid it being a deluge of nonsense.
If you want a good film version of a cartoon, I strongly recommend “The Extraordinary Adventures Of Adele Blanc-Sec”, by the same director who made “The Fifth Element”.
For some reason, it did not make a strong impact in America. I think it was filmed in French and maybe dubbed into English.
[HBO] Lanterns Review: True Detective meets Watchmen in DC’s riskiest bet yet
“Lanterns” Review: DC Studios finds its light
It’s a first season with 8 episodes, so I expect it’ll tee up season 2 rather than arrive at a satisfying conclusion.
birgerjohansson @31: It’s on YouTube (eng dub and sub) and Tubi (french w/ eng sub). Wikipedia says, “It did not receive a wide theatrical release in the United States” and went straight to DVD.
The Extraordinary Adventures Of Adèle Blanc-Sec (1:44:56)
@John Morales :
Were they “swinging tools” all the time or operating machinery?
Robots can be expensive and complicated and (human) labour can be cheap, easy and better able to cope with things – human flexibility, adpabablity, intelligence vs programmed potentially vulnerable to breaking down or malfunctioning etc..
Perhaps therewa s a “Butlerian jihad “type situation in the history too where say in backlash to AI and data centres strict limits where placed on what robots and compters could do. IOW legaland social restrictions on the use of AI, robots , etc .
Plausible? I think so.
Admittedly I don’t recall anything about that in the book or allusions to it in film so maybe just retroconning in my head cannon. Still.
Didn’t get an Eloi and Morlocks type vibe myself but think I can see what you mean a bit now you’ve said that even though I don’t agree. Martians? Inners vs Outers as separate societies with outers having some evolution issues but nowhere near to that Eloi / Morlock extent and no so simple. Give it few million more years maybe?
StevoR, have you yourself seen it?
I have, I gave up after the first episode and a bit. And by then I was zotting past the most boring bits.
And yes, it was basically serfs. Here:
I heard the X-Pants got better, but I couldn’t stand the cheesy first (few?) episodes. Kinda like Orville that way.
Maybe I’ll give them both another try. I’ve been starved of good space-wagon TV that takes itself seriously and isn’t peppered with millennial writing.
Hmm.. actually thinking about it, lessee :
Source : https://gamerant.com/why-the-expanse-doesnt-focus-ai-robotics-explained/
Plus :
Source : https://www.cbr.com/the-lack-of-ai-in-the-expanse-is-its-most-important-vision-of-the-future/
In addition to what a CaptainGreezy notes here :
Source : https://www.reddit.com/r/TheExpanse/comments/61a81r/why_isnt_there_any_drone_vessels/
IOW, the answers are that the tech is ther ebut more subtle and the story isn’t about it and that’s the author’s choice.
@35/. John Morales : StevoR, have you yourself seen it?
Yes. Well, most of it, missed a few epsiodes whicjh I’m stillmeaning tocatch up on SBS on Demand. See #29 above :
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2026/08/18/the-death-of-superheroes/comment-page-1/#comment-2309590
I don’t think it was basiallyy serfs. Not what I got from that. Oh well, subjective .
StevoR, yes.
My clip showed the vibe to which i referred: the depicted Arcadian garden paradise contrasted to the grotty slums of Tartarus.
(Eloi, Morlocks)
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BTW, Niven did Belters far, far better.
@ ^ John Morales : Not many serfs owned and flew their own spaceships or had their own businesses incl among other things brothels. Or had their political activists and groups eg the OPA. The Belters in The Expanse did.
The Belters of The Expanse covers a pretty broad group – a whole society and culture – that had its own sports (eg. the racing thing that first triggered the Ring) and controlled parts of the solar system.Yes, they were the least powerful and most badly exploited and oppressed group in the series but that doesn’t make them equivalent to serfs.
Niven did Belters differently and well too. Both good depictions and imagined groups in my view.
(Good grief!)
The elites and the plebs, StevoR. In that very clip. The vibe. The haves and the have-nots.
The entirety of it is in Ceres. The entire conceit is a crude version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_empire
The “Garden” vs. “Downwater”. Quite overt.
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For the yuks:
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebs_(TV_series))
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And just to not be utterly pointless, I note I reckon that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Men was brilliant.
That’s why I like the TV series Person of Interest.
Humans, flawed, with exceptional skills, working with a super AI ti fight crime. The AI itself is being misused by the government. Over time a second AI emerges and is bad in a very realistic way. Our heroes are almost always on the backfoot, making only small gains.
@41. John Morales : There’s a lot more to the Belters (and the Belt & Outers) in The Expanse than just Ceres ad that one scene.
What you’re doing there seems to me to be like taking a scene of the Okies ina Hooverville from Grapes of Wrath and using that to say all Americans are oppressed and starving and over-exploited Plebs.
StevoR, I literally wrote “I gave up after the first episode and a bit.”
Remember? You:
So no. I never ever claimed that scene is all Belters are.
I am not taking a scene, i am selecting a specific instance of what I mean, iIllustratively.
From the bit I saw before I gave up. An example of what I mean.
Not in the slightest. I am telling you my personal perception of it, not claiming anything about the fictional world other than what I saw depicted. The tired tropes. I could do many more.
I literally and explicitly mentioned both ‘elois’ and ‘morlocks’.
So no, not ‘all Americans are oppressed and starving and over-exploited Plebs.
Ceres! Those gardens and those tunnels are in the very same place.
The equivalent of your ‘America’.
(By Americans, do you mean Canadians? Urugayans? ;)