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I thought the soy boy nonsense had run its course


They’re back! The clueless numpties who thought eating soy would turn men into women are complaining about Burger King’s Impossible Burger now.

Yeah, he brings up that “gay frog” nonsense that was popular on Info-Wars. Alex Jones was FLUSHHHHHed away last year, making Alpha OmegaEnergy the smeary bit on the porcelain that’s going to take another flush or two to be gone.

Nationalfile.com is one of those loony pro-Trump raging conservative fake news sites, so I think we can take the whole accusation with a heaping load of skepticism.

The claim has already been simply shut down.

New York University nutrition professor Marion Nestle told the publication that Asian men and boys have been eating large amounts of soy for centuries and, “No, they don’t grow breasts.”

Isn’t it weird how so many people are insistent that one’s sex is absolute and fixed and established by biology, yet at the same time they’re fearful that eating the wrong food will dramatically change their appearance and physiology and sexual orientation? It’s got to be one way or the other, guys.

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Comments

  1. says

    When I was in college some “scientist” claimed that marijuana would make you grow female breasts. Somehow it didn’t happen.

  2. says

    Their “reasoning” does not work. For one thing, they can simply not eat the burgers. Problem solved! But if other men eat them, and the estrogen messes them up, then they are reducing competition for females. They ought to be cheering for this plot.

  3. brightmoon says

    I have no idea how I managed to escape being a YEC / Republican/ conservative/ science illiterate but I thank God that I’m not . Smdh!

  4. anthrosciguy says

    It’s got to be one way or the other, guys.

    Many of the same folks think their enemy (ie., us) are stupid, ineffectual, weak while simultaneously thinking we’re super clever and all powerful. Consistency is not their forte.

  5. says

    @#4, anthrosciguy:

    Oh, yeah, that.

    I remember having a conversation on a forum a little before the vote to invade Iraq in 2003. This guy was saying that invading Iraq would be a cakewalk, that if we went over and shot a few rounds, they would all surrender. I said (at this point all of this is necessarily paraphrasing, it’s been so long) “that won’t happen, we’ll be invading their country” and he said “sure it will”. I said “if the situations were reversed, and Saddam Hussein ordered troops to come and take over the US, would you throw down your weapon and surrender once they started shooting?” and of course he said “of course not, I’d fight until they killed me”. I said “don’t you think the Iraqis will do the same?” and there was a long delay and then he said “no, you see, they’re Iraqis. I’m an American.”

  6. kome says

    It is strange to find essentialism and fragility both directed at the same coin, but for different sides.
    Once you’re a woman/gay/colored/whatever, you’re that forever, but if you’re a man/straight/white/whatever, that can be stolen away from you in an instant if you’re not vigilant.

    Conservatism is a weird set of contradictions and incoherence.

  7. Snarki, child of Loki says

    “Conservatism is a weird set of contradictions and incoherence.”

    They believe six impossible things before breakfast.
    In bed with Putin and hyper-American patriots? They’re all Red Queens, in every way.

  8. Artor says

    44mg of estrogen in a single burger? I am no endocrinologist, but that seems like several magnitudes more than any remotely reasonable scaremongering.

  9. F.O. says

    @anthrosciguy #4

    Many of the same folks think their enemy (ie., us) are stupid, ineffectual, weak while simultaneously thinking we’re super clever and all powerful.

    An enemy that’s simultaneously weak and strong is one of the defining features of fascism.
    We are not going to defeat it with logic.

  10. says

    An enemy that’s simultaneously weak and strong is one of the defining features of fascism.
    We are not going to defeat it with logic.

    Because fascism is simultaneously strong but stupid! Ignorance is strength!

  11. bravus says

    “44mg of estrogen in a single burger? I am no endocrinologist, but that seems like several magnitudes more than any remotely reasonable scaremongering.”

    I believe the correct figure is 44 ng – one millionth as much.
    It’s phytoestrogen too… I’m not enough of a biologist/endocrinologist to know whether that’s a distinction without a difference.
    But yes, nonsense is what’s going on here, in several directions at once.

  12. Ed Seedhouse says

    I never ate much soy, but I do have a distinct pair of boobs. Silly me, I always assumed it was the result of age combined with obesity. But instead it’s the fault of some strange foreign bean! I am so relieved.

  13. Robert Serrano says

    Funny. I eat soy products all the time, and have yet to grow even slightly enlarged breasts. Am I doing something wrong? Or is is just that some people are so insecure in their masculinity that they’ll panic at any idiotic scare story that in any way implies a “threat” to it?

  14. dangerousbeans says

    @bravus and Artor
    44mg is about 4.5 times the maximum oral dose I’ve heard of. But that’s one dose, you would have to eat a burger every day for a month to see any changes, years to get significant breasts.
    Of course that’s leaving aside the fact that they are phyto-estrogen, so doesn’t have the same biological effect

  15. Kagehi says

    Wow.. I knew that we would get anti-GMO people freaking over the fact that it uses modified yeast to add heme into the burger, so it actually tasted like one (or as much as any other “beef” burger you get in a fast food place), but I would have, literally, never guessed that the problem a bunch of idiots would freak out about was, “estrogen from soy”. lol

  16. thorarin says

    Someone had better run out and warn them about the powerful phytoestrogen in hops. Haven’t they noticed all the shapely breasts that so many beer-guzzling frat boys sport? We must spread the word!

  17. Susan Montgomery says

    Okay. As any transwoman can tell you, phytos have no such effect. I used them regularly before I started hormones and the best result was slightly smoother skin. That’s it.

  18. says

    WOW that is world class level stupid.
    Isoflavones = phytoestrogens
    phytoestrogens = estrogen
    Soy has Isoflavones therefore soy has estrogen?!?
    SHOW ME YOUR HPLC DATA! or STFU!

  19. William George says

    Asian men and boys have been eating large amounts of soy for centuries and, “No, they don’t grow breasts.”

    Funnily enough sitting in front of your computer all day and looking for global feminist conspiracies does grow man breasts.

  20. says

    First let’s separate the political and scientific questions of minority genders. If transgenderism is a choice, then it is a political right; if it is compelled, then it is a biological necessity; in neither case does it merit political sanction, if it harms none.

    That political point aside: where do minority genders come from? What scientific account can you make for them? Breeder cis heterosexuality has obvious evolutionary advantages; what then of the others? Are these subtle adaptations from the Paleolithic?

    What gay qualities are as stereotypical as mother love? Well, there’s butch, reputedly aggressive and muscular. I suppose those would serve as a Paleolithic tribe’s warrior caste. Also there’s nellie and femme, reputedly sensitive and domestic. I suppose those would serve as that tribe’s clean-up squad. But this is speculation.

    More speculation: that these traits emerge in times of crowding. Perhaps diseases of crowds (flu, colds) can interfere with hormonal development in utero. This might also cover the case of transgender. But again, speculation.

    To repeat: the political question of rights is independent of the scientific question of origins. I ask you for your scientific account, as a biologist.

  21. Dennis Kemp says

    Why would someone eat anything with a female hormone in if they’re a man? As for lifting, you don’t have to do that to be manly, as lots of guys do different sporting without lifting and are still consider to be manly. As for getting into a fight, only idiots do that unless it is a combat sport, where both are willing and you have rules to keep you safe. Simply getting into a Essay Help Online battle since you’re a man is terrible guidance. That is increasingly similar to guidance for a creature, with the exception of in self-protection. The issue isn’t so a lot of what you decide to do, however not placing a female hormone in your body when you’re a male.

  22. raven says

    Why would someone eat anything with a female hormone in if they’re a man?

    Technically, the amount of estrogen in soy is zero. ZERO. NONE.
    Soy has phytoestrogens which are isoflavones not steroids, not the same thing, and don’t have the same biological effects as…estrogen.

    As to why anyone would eat soy with phytoestrogens, that is very simple.
    So simple an idiot like you could understand it.
    Because they have no obvious biological effects on men. Or women for that matter.
    Just about every on this planet consumes foods with phytoestrogens because they are ubiquitous.
    Do watch out though for coffee, hops, beer, and bourbon whiskey, all of which contain…phytoestrogens.

    Wikipedia: A more comprehensive list of foods known to contain phytoestrogens includes:

    Soybeans and soy products
    Tempeh Linseed (flax) Sesame seeds Wheat berries
    Fenugreek (contains diosgenin, but also used to make Testofen, a compound taken by men to increase testosterone).
    Oats Barley Beans Lentils Yams Rice Alfalfa Mung beans Apples Carrots Pomegranates[24]
    Wheat germ Rice bran Lupin Kudzu Coffee Licorice root Mint Ginseng
    Hops,[25] Bourbon whiskey Beer,[26] Fennel Anise.[27] Spinach[28]
    Red clover (sometimes a constituent of green manure).

  23. wzrd1 says

    @25, thank you for a sanity check!

    @the rest, well, now nearing a B cup size on one breast, due to hyperthyroidism, the other side is lagging and quite the straight male, I say, “Whatever, idiot”, as I am most certainly not a fucking plant.
    I eat plants and animals, the converse has, thus far, remained entirely true.
    Some bacteria tried me out, they lost and more importantly, a few I was immunized against. Some fungi tried me out, it is usually referred to as “athlete’s foot” and “crotch rot”. Still around and contagious for one trivial variety.

    Still, at age 58, that boob is still quite perky, not that we care about such things these days. ;)

    Now, back to reviewing spam folder e-mails, to find employment, as I’m out of money, prescriptions without appointments, tests and obscene costs, blood pressure medications, antithyroid medication and have an abdominal dilation of 2.5 – 2.5 cm.
    Measured a year ago and am in a hypertensive crisis.

  24. says

    I would had thought that meat from cows was a much more likely place to find estrogen. I mean, they’re mammals. They actually have estrogen.

  25. jrkrideau says

    @ 27 LykeX
    I would had thought that meat from cows was a much more likely place to find estrogen. I mean, they’re mammals.

    And female. What we need is a few well-placed articles “explaining” how beef of anf sort but especially grounh]d beef and Tzbone steaks are loaded with estrogen and will give all those manly (cough) men huge breasts and soprano voices.

  26. A Sloth named Sparkles says

    But really, in a bigger picture, what is it about being feminized that makes men (and the overall patriarchy) guard their masculinity, mostly with violent reaction?

    I can at least assume why non-Western nations, mostly in Asia & Africa, react violently & with great prejudice, against the so-called “feminization” of their people, mostly within the LGBT community; mostly to curb “Western influence” brought by former colonialist powers as well as the US. Which is ironic, since a lot of these Western empires were responsible for introducing homophobic laws into those nations, while the nations themselves actually do have a strong history of transgender culture & same-sex relations.

    Most common I’ve heard from Malaysian fundamentalists here, where I come from, is this insane apocalyptic narrative involving the LGBT relations & “feminization”. To them, if both rampant, as slippery slopes go, there won’t be any more children being born considering the high infertility rate in my country. Oh, and something about the second Sodom & Gomorrah since we live along the Ring of Fire.

    A lot has being done to protect to LGBT rights in this region, like we have feminist organizations like Sisters in Islam, which has been dismissed as “infidels” by the local Shariah courts. Despite these, there are too many violent attacks on the trans community, implicitly encouraged by some ministers and our local activists & lawyers can do so much.

    The colonialist narrative behind Asian & African prejudice against LGBT & feminization is understandable but still abhorrent. The Western prejudice? That doesn’t seem to have any rhyme nor reason why, other that upholding some arbitrary Western “tradition” which has been mercurial since the Reformation.

    PS: If you’re interested in helping the LGBT community in Malaysia, I could list down activists & organizations that you could connect with.

  27. Owlmirror says

    Comment #24, by Dennis Kemp, is actually subtly placed SEO comment spam. The text seems to be relevant to the OP/comment thread, but suddenly, there is non sequitur link text and link to an essay writing site!

    I wonder if it was manual or automated?

  28. Owlmirror says

    @jrkrideau:

    @ 27 LykeX
    I would had thought that meat from cows was a much more likely place to find estrogen. I mean, they’re mammals.
    And female. What we need is a few well-placed articles “explaining” how beef of anf sort but especially grounh]d beef and Tzbone steaks are loaded with estrogen and will give all those manly (cough) men huge breasts and soprano voices

    Uh-oh. I’m sensing a market open up: All-Bull Burgers & Steaks — the Meat for the Real Man! No cows, no steers, no freemartins. No estrogen! Just tons of all-natural testosterone from all-bull meat!

    At 200x or more the price, of course. Grifters gonna grift.

    ( Have a side of Rocky Mountain oysters while you’re chowing down )

  29. Owlmirror says

    @obertbaden:

    Why would you be more concerned about estrogen in a steer than a bull?

    These are people who believe in essences. The idea is to promote the essence of UNDILUTED MANLINESS. Steers have had their MANLINESS reduced, while bulls have not.

    Eating UNDILUTED BULL MEAT will magically confer the essence of UNDILUTED MANLINESS to the eater.

    Magical thinking doesn’t have to make sense.

  30. bodach says

    “A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids…” -Base Commander Jack D. Ripper. He would never eat estrogen!1!

  31. llyris says

    @ 18 – Lofty “trans fats”
    Omg, that’s gold.
    All those manly men had better stick to something safe and definitely not feminine in any way … like salad.

  32. Misael campos says

    @30. Small world. I’m usually a lurker to this blog because of the politics, that atheism here is not a huge talking point (I’m not a atheist myself), the observation that PZ is rather friendly to the humanities and social sciences (unlike other “skeptics”), and that it focuses on social justice. I would like to know more about LGBT rights, feminism, and women’s rights in Malaysia. As a student of gender, religion, and history of Asia, I would especially like to know more if you ever the time. Sorry for everyone else reading this as I know my comment doesn’t have anything to do with the actual post.

  33. mythogen says

    @23 speaking as a femme trans lesbian… not everything needs to have a purpose or fit into a plan. can we just be people? must there be a reason and a role in a Paleolithic tribe? i’m so glad you think i should have political rights but the relentless need to figure out why people like me even exist is rather off-putting.

    especially as i know that if you could isolate a “biological” cause of trans people (you cannot, not a real one) that would simply make my kind a target for removal from the gene pool. “you should have political rights but your existence is also a mistake that might be correctable with the right medical intervention” is NOT as reassuring as you think it is.

    And finally, your use of lesbian cultural terms like butch and femme to stereotype us for half-ass evo-psych bullshit is real offensive. That you think butches are only suitable for fighting and femmes are only suitable for domesticity is just incredible. Try not to talk about shit you don’t understand.

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