This is new! I usually don’t get rape fantasies, but Thunderf00t’s angry rabble have opened up exciting new vistas.
The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the people judging him had simply written him off as ‘too out there’ and simply condemned him five minutes into his talking? The point I’m trying to make is that as much as I think Watson is at a minimum misguided, you are culpable for much worse. Free Speech is the fundamental human right; without it, we are all doomed. You removing his website because you disagree on a matter of opinion makes you as bad as the papacy banning books, or Iran banning books, etc. etc…. In other words, by shutting off free expression you have sauntered effortlessly to lines the old and evil; too much information is bad, we decide what you should be exposed to, let’s have Salman Rushdie killed for writing something we don’t agree with. You have not tried to have Tf00t killed yet(my, what restraint you have), but at this point I wouldn’t be surprised to see that either. You’re supposed to be a scientist; a little open-mindedness goes a long way in investigating the truth.
In this modern world the only way to survive and live well is to laugh, rather than cry… A little cynicism never hurt anyone.
Anyway, I don’t believe I shall be reading your blogs any more; at least until you apologize to Mr. f00t; if you don’t all I can to is hope you get raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan. Next time think with your brain instead of your balls, and maybe over time I’ll grow to trust and respect you again. until then, eat shit. I mean, you’re supposed to be a scientist, for Christ’s sake.
I could swear some more but based off what I know of you you’re probably bawling already. Nobody likes a crybaby. You old cunt.
Thanks for your time!
Phil Krstulich,
someone who actually believes in equality of right for all humankind, and who isn’t a two-faced fuck who pretends to be in favor of free speech while trying to stamp it out.
Curses! My plan to have Thunderf00t killed has been exposed!
I have now seen a teeny tiny fraction of what Anita Sarkeesian gets.
How dare you have eliminated all of TF’s avenues for free speech!
I’ve never gotten this line of argumentation. If you’re in my house yelling at my guests, and I tell you to leave, I haven’t violated your free speech. You still have it.
Phil, you spelled chrissake wrong.
Which immediately evoked in my mind an image of luxury cars having their way with you. I was like WUT?
Josh,
Transformers?
Yawn PK, your concern is noted, along with your lack of stating Tf is responsible for what he says, and if what he says is foolish, he deserves to be treated like a fool, which he was. Evidently you only think “free speech” comes into play if others are discomforted, and you agree with it, including half the population. And I don’t believe for one second you are for women’s rights and against harassment, unless it is extremely blatant. You haven’t shown you know how to shut the fuck up and listen to those who disagree with you.
Seriously though, this is so unhinged it’s almost impossible to believe he really thinks these things. Two years ago I would have been certain it was a parody. I am now disabused of that innocence.
Just goes to show all atheist aren’t rational. Otherwise they’d know that “freethought” does not mean…
1) Say whatever you like without being called on it.
2) Insult anyone you like without being called on it.
3) Make lousy arguments without being called on them.
4) Anyone who disagrees with you and says so is trying to suppress and censor you.
If thunderf00t had shown the least interest in engaging in dialogue with the people criticizing his posts, rather than doubling down on his douchebaggery, he might still be here today. But I’m sure he and his fanboys are happy validating each other over what a bunch of evil thought-police tyrants we all are.
Bwahahaha.
:D
Since when does freedom of thought and opinion equal freedom from criticism, responsibility, or accountability for those thoughts.
Martin, don’t forget that Freethought also means:
What? Besides the other stuff, I’m not clear on how your balls kicked Thunderf00t off the network.
Tell him you were exercising your right to free speech. When did the idea that government is not allowed to punish anti-government speech become the idea that anything can be said to anyone else without consequences?
PZ has prehensile testicles.
Ace of Sevens,
Their little narrative is that PZ kicked TF off FTB in order to get into RW’s pants*.
*enough acronyms for ya?
WTF? If there are any people in all this ‘thinking with their balls’, surely it’s Team Misogyny?
What? Whaaat? Whaaaa…. Jesus Babiroussa Christ, these people… WTF is wrong with them?
It is just more ignorance and projection. They can’t imagine any guy *not* “thinking with their balls”, so that is what they accuse PZ of.
So, Phil and Tfoot’s definition of free speech is the same as Anne Coulter’s.
Charming.
Thunderf00t’s response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mLHdTsmPc&feature=g-u-u
Honestly, this whole thing has been embarrassing to watch from *both* side.
Its the extraneous detail that surprises me. Not just raped, but raped by jaguars. And not just jaguars, jaguars in the Yucatan.
I suspect that if/when I get drunk and do some ill-advised internet venting, my own hatemail would not measure up to these guys’ standards. No jaguars. No exotic locales. I’d probably do no better than a few f-bombs and your-momma comments.
Bloody well right! You’re supposed to be a scientist, PZ, so go do some science!
Like maybe figure out how these people manage to operate a computer. There’s a Nobel with your name on it if you can explain that.
*sides.
Stupid fingers.
I, for one, would like to thank PZ for the restraint he has shown in not murdering Thunderfoot.
Elaborate.
I don’t think they fit would him.
Yep. Because not putting up with Tfoot’s irrational, embarrassing, and obnoxious obliviousness is just as bad as Tfoot’s irrational, embarrassing, and obnoxious obliviousness.
Well to be fair we are not talking about criticism, we are talking about banning people. But to be fair again I doubt TF was banned for just the fact that he made stupid arguments. Right?
Want to elaborate more on how the side refuting TF’s bullshit is also embarrassing for you to watch? Or not, as it is bound to be a load of false equivalency.
Based on your first comment, the problem may not be in your fingers.
It’s worse than Phil imagines. PZ and co. are stamping on the free speech rights of roughly 7 billion people (not to mention countless squid) by not giving them free access to blog on FTB.
Clearly, they have powers of oppresion that Hitler, Stalin and Mao could only dream of.
You beat me.
Hayden @ #20
One side is using rape threats and crying that their right to free speech is being infringed upon. The other side is just rude.
So… a pox on both your houses?
I knew I only had a short window to work with that line. I did my best.
The fuck is it with so many people today and that word? Banning. It’s uttered as if the action is just shy of shoving people into a pit and shooting them. Besides, when a newspaper fires a columnist we don’t say they “banned” that person. What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
Seriously. Unpack that fucking concept before you use it!
dapartypoopah @ #28
Thunderf00t wasn’t banned.
I, for one, would like to thank PZ for the restraint he has shown in not murdering Thunderfoot.
Alas, PZ’s already released the kraken. TF’s doobed, I tell ya, doobed.
Hayden:
Yeah, blame your fingers.
_____
Jaguars in the Yucatan are a microcosm of human society. The worst of it, anyhow. On good advice, I’d avoid their territory.
Damn tootin’.
Oooh? I didn’t realise we’d found the court transcripts!
Or does this fella think Platon wrote anything but fiction?
Oh, I’m sure that’s just more edgy, 4channy, raucous humor. Nothing to do with collective misogyny or silencing uppity women. Just send Justin Griffith to reason with them.
SC, you just don’t get .
New Statesman also has an article (quite visual, be warned) about the abuse directed towards Anita Sarkeesian. I don’t have the words to properly describe how fucking disgusted I am.
On a positive note I love the header graphics on Feminist Frequency.
Well, he has grown rather svelte.
Apologize to Mr. f00t?
(That sound is me giggling uncontrollably.)
I, too, have noticed with ever growing concern the complete disappearance from the internet of Thunderfoot since you went all Nacht Und Nebel on his ass. Has anybody here seen my old friend Thunderfoot? I turn around and he’s gone.
Thunderf00t owns FtB? That’s news to me.
Ernst Hot, thanks for that link, but now I am feeling sick to my stomach. That “interactive “Beat Up Anita Sarkeesian” game”, is one of the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
The piece of shit who made that game had this to say in the description,
Just wow. He calls this “constructive criticism”? He is surprised when he is labelled “sexist”?
Fuck this slimey fucker.
Like Josh said, it’s so easy to read this as parody. My first instinct is to imagine Mr. Krstulich merrily typing this out as a ridiculous homage to recent events or a tasty little amuse-bouche to offer between the heartier fare of this blog.
Then I realize that no, Paul was probably pounding away on his keyboard thinking “PZ will be stunned into shocked realization of deepest shame by my manly logics, Yucatan jaguar rape threats and a blatant use of the cunt-word! Go me! So-crates! FREE SPEEEEEECH!
PZ,
You really just showed the movement how fucking pathetic you are.
I have read your blog for years because I loved your takedowns of creationists. Its more than a little bit ironic that you used to (righfully) mock Ken Ham for refusing to link to this blog or open up comments because he knew that he couldn’t compete with free expression. Turns out you’re just as much of a simpering asshole.
I don’t understand.
How can Blunderfoot respond when he’s banned and silenced?
Does not compute. My little, feminist brains hurtz just thinking about it.
sc_78943705727ce8b5cd2d182cbc30c5cc
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
sc_78943705727ce8b5cd2d182cbc30c5cc,
Yawn
Oh, look, a shiny new chew toy. How about you first figure out how to have a proper nym on this board ,before tackling more complicated intellectual activities, like thinking and typing at the same time?
Has anybody here seen my old friend Thunderf00t?
Can you tell me where he’s gone?
He made a lot of people facepalm
But it seems the true free-thinkers they’re banned young.
I just looked around
And he’s over on Y*uT*be celebrating himself like always.
And yet here you are in the open comments getting a hearing?
MAI BRANE HERTZ!
Because he’s a real man and your fascist, feminazi, censorious bullying is no match for his alpha-male masculine manliness.
Or something.
If PZ had mocked Ken Ham for not paying to host Pharyngula, that equivalence would not be quite so false.
It sez so right here in my Oxford Complete Edition of the Impressive Speeches of Socrates.
Thunderf00t is free to comment as always. He just doesn’t like speaking in forums he doesn’t control.
heheheheheh
/Bender
Oh dear, yet another idiot making stupid, stupid, accusations without engaging a single brain cell. Stupids gotta stupe.
I am unfamiliar with the philosopher/general to which you refer.
My my, what a lovely piece of snark. ♥
Zing. That’s really insightful.
Errm, Thunderf00t hasn’t been banned.
They prefer to be called spermatophores.
*re-reads Josh’s ‘nym*
ROFL
*wipes coffee off keyboard/screen*
*ahem* where would you like your shiny new Intertoobs delivered?
PZ!
I can haz free speech, too? You’re squashing my First Amendment rights by not giving me a blog!
(This calls into question: did “freedom of speech” exist before the internet?)
I ♥ this bit:
Yes, because deciding that Thunderf00t and his crappy blog wasn’t a good fit for FtB is exactly like issuing a fatwā. Also, because TF has been booted from this blog network, there have been assassination attempts on his life! Just like Salman Rushdie.
Tru fax.
Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts #47
That’s why I put the warning there, I had a similar reaction myself. How lacking in empathy are these people who find that shit funny?
I don’t think I could have made a better case for feminism if I tried…
terrse on the whole situation:
God, Thunderfoot. Your fans are some of the stupidest trolls I have seen in a while. I yearn for shinier chew-toys. Rajkumar, come back…
Probably Bayformers, given what I’ve heard of those movies.
—
It’s really amazing, reflecting on how so many idiots don’t understand the meaning of censorship even though it’s a core issue in the information age.
You can write whatever you want, but I don’t have to loan you my pencil to do it. I don’t have to loan you my stationary and my implied approval that comes with it, either. FTB simply withdrew permission for TF to use their pencils and stationery.
There isn’t exactly a crippling shortage of writing instruments, nor an FTB monopoly on such devices to warrant censorship concerns. TFoot is free to use generic pencils and generic paper provided by Blogger and WordPress. He’s free to use the film provided by YouTube. He’s free to use stationery from whoever else might want his writing associated with them. Welcome to the information age.
#70—Literally the only words I could understand in that wharblegarble were “fuckin'” and “email.”
I find it rather disheartening – to say the least – that a person who apparently has a working knowledge of Socrates and Salman Rushdie can equate their situations to TF’s, and, most importantly, that they can go from talking about Socrates to rape threats in the space of a couple a paragraphs without missing a beat or having their head explode from the contradiction.
I used to console myself with the fact that most hate comments of the internet are justified by the anonymity of the system and the lack of education of the persons writing the hate comments .. now, I’m not so sure.
I wonder if you can easily recognize such individuals in every day life – the ones who consider rape threats a valid argument to be employed in a conversation.
[I posted a comment with similar content, but different wording, and it seemed to have got lost…apologies if this is a duplicate]
THe gallling thing about this bullshit move is that it seems to go against every principle of free expression you have been expounding for years. Turns out your just a fucking hypocrite.
T-F00t’s post yesterday “PZ Myers and the Art of Shameless Dishonesty” was dead on.
How ever will thunderf00t get his views out without a blog. Now he only has his youtube account with ~155,000 subscribers!
Oh the humanity he’ll never be able to get his message out to people ever again!!!!
@ T-Foot actually has integrity unlike some assholes.
Wow, does my asshole have integrity? How do you find out if it doesn’t? Will it affect my ability to shit all over your hateful argument?
LOL. Because, for years, PZ has been expounding the principle that free expression entails that anyone whosoever can host a blog on his network, regardless of quality.
(To clarify, since I’ve been faux-complaining about this for several days: I don’t actually want one.)
Internet Police. License and registration, please?
yeah, I could cite you twice for that comment, but I’ll let you off with a warning this time.
Please comment more safely in the future and have a nice day.
We are aware of said post and are thoroughly unimpressed. Piss off.
Delurking on a MRA madness thread, simply to say, Sili, your nym made me laugh. Really hard.
Best. Ellison. reference. Evar.
The rest of y’all. Keep up the mockery. Sometimes we must laugh in order not to cry.
Somebody else doesn’t know what “free expression” means! *cough*TfootHoggler @ 75*cough!*
Are you assholes really so stupid that you think everyone is guaranteed a particular platform. If so, I want my very own Free Thought Blog or I’m contacting the ACLU!
I’ll take delivery in the rear.
I DEMAND that Thunderf00t let me post videos on his channel!
What? I can’t? Why does he hate freedom of speech so much?!?
BAH facts.
Useless I say! What when we have vitriol and self important anger!
Also, did you know Loftus made a post commenting on Thunderfoot’s latest vlogging “masterpiece”? I really have to stop visiting that site, it really makes my blood boil.
Josh:
Oh oh oh! I think it’s time!
Shorter T’foot Hoggler:
I’ve never gone to an atheism or skepticism conference or meetup because I’ve been afraid of being intimidated by all the smart people there.
If Phil is at all representative of some portion of that population, then my fears have been misplaced.
I think I caught their show at the Colosseum in 2006 as the intro band for Alison Krauss. Hell of a set if I remember.
haaayooo
I have been BANNED (from posting vids on TF’s youtube channel)
CENSORSHIP!!!!!!
TALIBAN!!!!!
FEMINAZIS!!!!!!!!!
Y U NO LIKE FREE SPEEEEEEEEEECH?????????????
I cannot speak for anyone else, but…
I’m not sure if I’m just getting more bitter or what, but the anti-feminist brigade has been more and more tiresome as of late.
Used to be I could spend hours and hours arguing and showing them why they’re wrong. And they would be humiliated and make increasingly stupid statements digging holes for themselves.
Now, I see the comments on the New Statesman link and I just think how wrong they are, and how it just doesn’t feel worth the effort to correct them anymore.
It just comes off as so morally indefensible that I simply cannot understand them defending so obviously a morally indefensible position
Words fail, and I am exhausted. So if I seem curt, simply calling you wrong, stupid and dismissing you instead of treating your arguments with respect, it is because you have skull badges on your caps.
karpad, most of us feel the same way. Try mockery; it helps a little.
I am so disappointed in Thunderf00t. I find this all so very sad. I fully support PZ and FTB in their decision. I truly hope that Thunderf00t has a realization and seeks to make amends. Just because I agree with him on ‘A’ doesn’t mean I have to tolerate his poor behavior. The man is drowning in his privilege.
♫
Karpad,
I hear ya. We each contribute what we can and remember: you don’t have to fight every battle.
Karpad,
Trust me, you are not alone in feeling that way.
Karpad, it gets to all of us eventually/occasionally. Sometimes it works to rest, sometimes you can’t rest and just swear and ridicule until you feel better, sometimes you get depressed and give up for a while (different from resting). This sort of thing is precisely why people who come here and tell us all to be nicer and not to be on such a hair trigger and to treat everyone like reasonable, good faith interlocutors are so fucking unbearable for a lot of us – this shit gets exhausting. I like to remember the phrase “Don’t let the bastards grind you down,” but eventually they just fucking do and there’s no “letting” involved.
Josh, Official Yucatan Jaguar:
yah, sounded like Sean Connerys long-lost brother!
I thought you were more of a cougar.
@All above
This entire episode was a giant case of both sides misinterpreting each other’s statements. Simply put, PZ, et al., want conferences to adopt harassment policies. The point of this is so that a person being harassed has some form of official recourse. Totally sensible.
For some reason TF interprets this as deputizing a squad of fun police who have lists of pre-approved fun activities, and straying outside these guidelines will result in some sort of punishment. Clearly idiotic, and not what has been proposed. However, his main point boils down to this. If people are having fun together, it’s no one else’s business. Totally sensible.
Enter the responses. PZ attributes the following positions to TF. “It’s OK if you abuse women in a bar; bars are free-range markets for men to exercise their will.” Later, “And his solution, which is to ignore all threats except the ones where you get to bring in the FBI and have them arrest someone, is so laughably black-and-white that it suggests he is entirely oblivious to the situation.” And again, “There is an attitude that women are there not as colleagues and respected partners in the goals of the movement, but as eye candy and sex toys”, followed by, “Thunderf00t expresses that same sense of privilege.” These quotes are all gross mischaracterizations of what TF actually said, which is that consenting adults should be left to their own devices.
Of course, among all that garbage above, PZ actually *agrees* with that point (“If she wants you to nibble on her leg, or she wants to nibble on yours, fine, have fun.”). As well he should, because it’s a sensible position. Unfortunately, that part of the message was lost among all the noise. TF responds with more straw men of his own and the whole thing proceeds down the shitter.
Ultimately, the person who got it right in all of this was Christina Rad. She hit’s the nail on the head with one sentence.
This should have been the thrust of PZ’s message. This could have lead to a constructive discussion, about the real point of contention, which is not whether we should have harassment policies at all, but rather what form they should take. TF seems to think a simple “Management reserves the right to refuse admission” is sufficient. PZ wants something more like the American Atheists’ policy which he posted. The discussion should have been about which of the two is appropriate. Instead we eventually ended up with sarcastic drivel that added nothing to the discussion.
Between the two, I think TF came out of this looking worse, but PZ did not exactly make a good showing, either. I lost a lot of respect for both parties involved.
That’s nice Hayden.
hahaha
I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure PZ is in the “hey lets NOT debate creationists” camp with richard dawkins and others based on the idea that its a waste of fucking time and only gives the false impression that people should give a fuck about what pastors and sitcom actors have to say about the subject. It isn’t against free thought to give a brand new wanker a go at restating the same old failed arguments over and over again. TF is about as well versed in social sciences (and law, and english) as kirk cameron is in biology. Why should anyone care what he thinks of sexual harassment policies?
More like TF Kiss-players.
Look, Hayden. If TF misrepresents the issue of harassment policies to such an extent that he thinks “consenting adults!” is an argument against them, he’s being disingenuous or he’s jumping into a situation in complete ignorance to run his mouth. Neither one deserves serious consideration. By focusing on this dumbass and irrelevant “central point” to the exclusion of the words he actually put in his post, you are being disingenuous too. If “Consenting adults!” was all he meant to say, and the only thing acceptable to respond to, that should have been all he put in his post.
Hayden: Yah.. drama drama drama. Why not calmly establish what can be agreed upon, what can be compromised upon and what are the fundamental differences of oppinion?.
I am surpriced to see this out of two people in academia (I would have said grownups, but it would have been unfair to children).
@110
Yes. TF was being ridiculous. You will get no disagreement from me there.
I agree both sides are just as bad. Shame on all of you for your rape threats and temper tantrums.
STOP with the both-sides shit, seriously. Thunderf00t behaved like a fucking ignorant, dishonest asshole. It is not incumbent upon PZ or anyone else to treat him like he’s an honest interlocutor.
@ Hayden
You seem to think your stance on the subject of TF hasn’t been discussed thoroughly around here, and we didn’t already dismantle most of the stuff in your post.
The fact that you decide to present TF’s posts in a positive light and to pretend they contained simple, reasonable, easy to understand nuggets of wisdom – when in fact they were incoherent messes of verbal diarrhea – tells me all I need to know about you and how honest you are about this.
Also, stop trying to share the blame. TF was the sole architect of designing and digging his hole, with most people on FtB -PZ included – trying to stop him.
Finally, you must have a very interesting definition of respect if you say you lost it for both TF and PZ. Something tells me the things I would have to believe and say and do in order to gain your *respect* are quite unappealing – and that’s an understatement.
Hayden has looked at fights from both sides now and still somehow he can’t tell them apart.
Also Tfs writing sucked. That alone should be enough to dump his blog
And yet you apparently want to complain because PZ refused to pretend “Wahhh consenting adults!” was a real point, and refused to ignore the vast pile of shit in which Thunderf00t buried that shiny little bit of glass.
Perhaps this is due to the fact that you are hard of thinking?
Your tedious trolling is noted tho.
p.s. I do not give one single fuck for anyone (ie: hayden and TF) who defends misogyny and claims that attacking misogyny is equally as bad as espousing misogyny.
Hmmmmmm.
I’m gonna have to say “no.”
It’s possible to have freedom from want, without any freedom of speech. But it is not possible to have freedom of speech, without any freedom from want (you would die if you had zero freedom from want).
Therefore, freedom from want is a more fundamental human right.
Both the Vatican and Iran are nation states. I wonder if this is important.
Hmmm. Governments and speech. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I think I recall reading a pretty well established standard reference on this issue at one ti… oh here it is:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
+++++
Is FreethoughtBlogs a government entity?
Or is it Brayton’s property?
Does Brayton have a right to kick people off his property?
Is being kicked off another person’s property “as bad” as being kicked off public property?
Also racism
I didn’t follow his YT drama but I’ve gotten whifts that misrepresenting people and being a douche isn’t new
Hayden:
*yawn*
If you’re so disappointed with all of this, why don’t you consider just fucking right along?
I was raped to death by jaguars in the Yucatan once.*
I got better.
Louis
* Just remember that being raped to death by a jaguar in the Yucatan is a serious crime. Being accused of being a jaguar who rapes people to death in the Yucatan is also a serious crime. And therefore both sides have their hands covered in jaguar poo.
Hayden also believes that one of the World Trade Center towers was destroyed in a controlled demolition, that 3 million Jews died in the Holocaust, that the universe is 6.9 billion years old, that Obama was partially born in the US, and that Loch Ness contains half a monster.
Yes. This. It isn’t snobbery, either. Comradde Physioproffe has often been accused of bad writing on FTB (because of his olde english e’s and cursing), but you understand what the fuck he is trying to say. That should be a minimum requirement for getting hosted on FTB.
Tell him you hope he finds christ someday.
Who was it that said, “Freedom of the press doesn’t mean YOUR freedom of MY press”?
FtB is Ed & PZ’s “press”.
–W. H. Heydt
Any good reading materials on general (or specifically group-oppression-related) “both sides” arguments? Besides that XKCD comic?
I want to link them from the wiki.
After reading that fanboi screed I feel slightly bad for Thunderfoot.
Karpad, there is one good thing about those kind of commentors on New Statesman. No matter how many others tell you you are wrong, or are being too shrill and just making a fuss… when you read those comments you know damn well that you are in the right. Because anyone writing that stuff has to be utterly indifferent, cruel and frankly… thick as pigshit.
I lol’d.
@75, thanks for reminding me to unsubscribe. He now has only 154,999 subscribers.
I can’t remember at this point, did any of Tf00t’s posts on this topic include the word “consent” or “consenting”? Iirc, that’s part of what made that first post about leg biting so dumb. We all thought, duh consent, and he was all triplicate thought police killjoys!!
Another problem with Thunderf00t’s blog, was that his page formatting style was blatantly plagiarized.
False equivalence is fun. Yay.
Chas @ 81 –
I read the comment by Ze Madmax and concluded, as you did, that it was in violation of the New Coyote Rules. I could not, however, have responded as well as you did.
Please accept a silent round of applause in lieu of an offer of some quantity of internets.
haha missed this in the video description:
MY DEBATE! ITS BEEN STIFFLED!
He is like 12, emotionally speaking. Jesus.
feralboy:
Careful, there, Orac may suddenly pop up shove a Hitler Zombie in your face… ;)
@115
I think verbal diarrhea is a very accurate assessment of TF’s first post. I didn’t think a detailed dissection of TF’s writing was necessary, because I didn’t think people here needed to be reminded what a poor showing TF made.
Have the Foot’s fanboys yet made a point that can’t be summed up with “it’s only free speech if you agree with me?” Because god-fucking-damn, the company one keeps says loads — particularly about his ability to convey the basics of free thought. Based on these idiots I’d dare say he’s a fucking failure.
Skeptifem:
What’s the Crommunist quote?
“Stupids gonna stupe.” I think it’s apt.
yep. “for some reason”. we don’t know why. this mystifying behavior has never at all occurred before and is not at all part of a pattern that manifests every time a feminist policy is adopted, be it harassment policies at atheist conferences or policies that would allow women to wear shoes other than high-heels at work.
This.
Thank you.
Oh no, another entitled internet asshole who equates their freedom of speech with someone else’s compulsion to provide a platform for them.
The owners of any blog or forum that you use have the right to ban you on a whim. The better blogs and forums are run by people who generally wait for you to give them a good reason to ban you. The worst are free of all moderation.
Ok having listened to his video well 2/3 of it I can’t help but wonder if he was trying to push the limits. He makes the point over and over again that they wouldn’t censor based on content. Combined with the tone of his post its almost like he took it as a challenge. Let’s pick a fight with several other bloggers right of the bat with ill informed posts. Doesn’t fact check a damn thing and barely interacts in the conversation. To top it off the whole thing was formatted like the usual trollish rants on the internet.
I’m just left with the impression it was one big attempt to troll the rules and see just how much shit he could get away with.
He seems to think free use means that he is free to use whatever copyrighted material he wants. Was it too much to spend five minutes reading the Wikipedia page? His situation is very similar to one of their counter-examples.
Pretty much. He decides to stir the shit with his first post, then cries about the backlash. He tries to equate it to academic freedom, but misses the fact that tenure (how academic freedom is protected) has to be earned.
PZ won’t provide me with a platform! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
Stiffle debate…
{snigger, giggle}
Oh yeah, my debate’s stiffled.
Louis
BOTH SIDES OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!111!!!one!!!eleventy!!!
Seriously, PZ. I think you owe me, Cipher, and What a Maroon our own blogs. In the interest of free expression and whatnot.
Wtf? Tfoot is complaining about abuse of copyright to stop discusion? Isn’t that the same guy who used a DMCA case as leverage to make a creatonist do a little dance and disapear for a while
Well, yes, but they also told the creationists dad on him.
Ah, the academic arena.
What is it most IRC servers always post when you log on…
Ah, here it is:
Sounds reasonable enough. I don’t recall anyone complaining about that.
But apparently if you’re feminazistasibullies, you lose all property rights.
I want one too! Stiffling (a combination of stifling and sniffling) is something no internetian deserves.
@SC #40:
It’s sadly ironic, in the light of his falling out with Greg Laden, to note that about a year ago, just after Elevatorgate started, Greg tried just that for a time with ERV and her commentariat… Didn’t work very well either.
@ChasPeterson #55:
Oh, nice one!
@Audley #68:
Yeah! J*hn Kw*k was a piker to demand only a Leica Rangefinder! Blogs for everybody or no True Free Speech™!
What a dumbass.
Turns out the law doesn’t care. If you violate someone’s copyright, and they decide to pursue you because they don’t like what you said, the law is still on their side. (Property law does not conform to toddlers’ expectations about fairness.)
I doubt that what the copyright holder stated was as straightforward as what Thunderfoot claims here, since he’s known to distort others’ meanings, but even if it were exactly as he claims, Brayton would still be legally compelled.
We should give the feminazi hive mind its own collective blog
I sugest we name it Lightning Hand. Just a name I plucked out of the aether
If TF wasn’t banned what happened? Advised to leave? An offer to resign? You mean that kind of deal?
he got fired. which is not the same as banned. do you understand this, or must I explain the difference?
skeptifem and irene:
Either FtB gives blogs to everyone or they’ve proven what a bunch of free speech stiffling femifacsists they really are!
He’s not banned from the site; he’s still free to comment on the blogs. He no longer has a personal blog, however.
#FTBullies don’t think adding jaguars improves the Socratic Method.
Sounds angry. Hope he deosn’t have a riffle.
*The “BUT” should be inside the parentheses, fool.
Ing:
I snortled.
Hayden
If you agree that TF made a poor showing (which is a massive understatement BTW), then why this?
These two statements aren’t really compatible IMO.
Laden wasn’t banned, either. He’s commented at Griffith’s.
O brave new world / That has such people in’t.
You stiffled my arguments against da cock-blocking. Your a real jerk, bozo.
“Like jaguars through the Yucatan, so are the days of our lives.”
‘Tis new to thee.
You know, raped to death in the Yucatan by jaguars…. Where in hell did he come up with that and what was the point? It sounded like someone trying to be like the nastier sort of commenter we’ve had and not knowing quite how to do it.
And BTW, Josh, you wanting your Internet delivered in the rear is an example of earning a double Internet. And also shows why panti liners were such an important invention for us seniors.
Too bad he can’t seem to care about all the people he continues to splash with shit.
“he got fired. which is not the same as banned. do you understand this, or must I explain the difference?”
What is the problem? Is it really so hard to just say he was fired? Why the need for such a condescending attitude? In the future shall I just stfu till some atheists pope informs my unworthy peasant mind what I should and shouldn’t know?
life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ
Okay, I totally read your comment @120 in the voice of the chamberlain from The Dark Crystal.
Because they’re not mutually exclusive statements. TF made a poor showing, so I lost respect for him. PZ also made a bad showing, so I lost respect for him, too.
Ann Romney, is that you?
Yes.
You want to know something?
That is a fucking fabulous idea!
You should shut the fuck up until there is an atheist pope.
or, you could just fucking read the thread in which you’re posting, since people already said he was fired before you asked.
Partypoopah,
You couldn’t take your two brain cells and rub them together hard and vigorously enough to figure out that TF got fired?
And, so what if he got banned, too? What has that got to do with anything?
Finally, a moniker worthy of my slightly annoyingness. Thank you everybody. I’ll treasure it always.
It sounds to me as if he returned to that sentence a few times to add extra levels of weird vitriol.
@ Hayden
Again with equating two things that couldn’t be any more dissimilar and trying to vilify both, although only one truly merits vilification.
OK, in your own words, what made you lose respect for PZ?
That’s like saying – prepare to be Godwinned – that you lost respect for the Nazis for what they did, but you also lost respect for the prosecutors at the Nurenberg trial because..I don’t know…they weren’t nice enough.
…and by “people” I actually mean Josh
Logic fail.
This is victim-blaming. The fact that PZ did not react to TF’s misogyny in the exact perfect manner which you would prefer is not a valid criticism.
Hayden –> Killfile. Just because it doesn’t know enough to STFU with terminal insipidity, I don’t have to listen to it…
dapartypoopah:
So, you didn’t know anything about the argument you were diving into? You just jumped in, opened your mouth, and proceeded to gnaw on your feet?
I’m not sure you need an Atheist Pope* to give you knowledge. You might try to do that for yourself once in a while.
* An excellent suggestion, BTW. I can imagine nothing so useless, and I’m a fan of useless things. Which probably explains why I’m responding to you.
It’s the “You sir are a Poopyhead” of death threats.
It’s the proper attitude to take when speaking to an inferior such as yourself.
(Inferior at reading for comprehension, anyway.)
Probably riffing from S. M. Stirling:
Derivative!
Nerd, what restraint you are showing by not killing Hayden by dropping a file on Hayden. Because we all so want to kill that person.
That first post of his started out so badly I think he should have been thrown out right away. Seriously people on the internet call other people “racist,” “bigot,” and “misogynist” for a reason. It’s because a lot of people on the internet are being racist, bigoted, and misogynistic.
Seriously when thunderf00t and Patcondell went on their “bomb those dirty muslims and don’t let them emigrate away from oppressive theocracies” ranting their subscriber bases exploded. TheAmazingAtheist slags feminists and his subscriber count isn’t hurt, it’s helped. Misogyny, bigotry, and racism is everywhere on the internet. I blame Reagan, personally.
Also Thunderf00t had no respect for the facts. He called the Tantive IV a cruiser. Seriously? Here’s a clue, a cruiser isn’t going to be completely dwarfed by a destroyer.
Totally. The key line in his PZ vid (which he mutters really quickly and with no visual reinforcement) is at 1:22:
I suspect there’s been more than one.
Reagan is not the cause. He is their patron saint.
socratic jaguar ॐ–
Jaguar-Twin powers activate! Form of: snark!
…just after he interprets PZ’s promise of 100% freedom of content as “as assurance of academic integrity” *eyeroll*:
which turns out to be a “disproportionate amount of time” spent on sexual harassment and “supporting crazies like Rebecca Watson, who first went off the deep end with all that stuff about coffee and elevators…”
He went in trolling.
What A Maroon, I am sure their has been a few atheist popes over the centuries; for a long time the church was one of the few places where an ambitious commoner could gain real power.
Perhaps I should say . But in my defense, I was mockingly using the words of a fuckface.
I don’t think he went in trolling. Its just back-pedalling bullshit.
See guys. I didn’t make a fool of myself, I was trolling. You get it? Haha. Anyways, back to being cool and smart.
Raped to death by jaguars? Isn’t that kind of random and unlikely? If he had really wanted to threaten PZ maybe he should have said he hoped PZ would accidentally stumble into one of their NAMBLA meetings and get raped to death. Given their hatred of women and the number of MRA assholes out there I think this is a far more realistic threat.
Uh PZ: I fail to see the “rape fantasy” you promised in this letter. It’s not the best repartee, sure, but a “rape fantasy” it certainly ain’t. All it is is someone who’s pissed off at you. He’s wrong about the free-speech issue (since FTB is not a government institution, free speech doesn’t enter into it), but since I have yet to hear any cogent, verifiable reasons as to why tfoot was given the boot, I’ll agree with at least this: that there is every chance that tf00t was booted solely because he disagreed with you and Ed. Now, since this is Ed’s site, he has the right to boot anyone he wants. But BS’ing about the reasons is just infantile.
Sili:
I yield my internets to you.
—
I don’t get the assertion that ThunderF00t and everyone else were arguing past each other, that both had legitimate points, yadda yadda. The “good” points of TFoot’s arguments were basic stuff that everyone accepted and had no trouble saying they accepted.
The problem I had was that he and others were minimizing or even denying a problem an unprivileged group had and calling for silence. I’ve seen the same trope used against minority races, against LGBT’s, and even against atheists like myself. I may be white and male, but my atheism gives me at least some understanding into how privilege rationalizes itself into inaction because I’ve been subjected to some of those tropes by Christians arguing against expressing my grievances.
Point taken. (To be honest, I was riffing off your post to show off my new ‘nym.)
Read better.
Given that you apparently don’t read shit before commenting on it, I’m not surprised you .
I finally spotted my typo. Dammit, that is one of the most embarrassing ones.
He did WHAT?!
Wow, Phil Krstulich really is a special snowflake isn’t he?
I love the fact that his opening gambit is to compare Thunderf00t – an angry online ranter who loudly demands that people respect his ‘right’ to chow down on the leg of any woman who catches his eye – to one of the most famous thinkers of the classical period.
I haven’t had that good a laugh in a while.
Well, Socrates did have the advantage of actually making sense… I know, I know ’twas a dirty trick to make effective use of logic and reason, but he was a bit like that.
Also, I would like to raise a point of order – PZ and others did not dismiss Thunderf00t after five minutes. They read his screeds first (and, given how poorly they were written, that probably took a while), and only then came to the entirely reasonable conclusion that he was a pompous prat swimming in his own private ocean of unexamined cis/het male privilege.
I know! I mean, who decapitates a poor chap and rips his spinal column from his rapidly cooling corpse for a trophy merely for asking them to go back to their room for ‘coffee’?
… No, wait, that’s not right. All Watson did was say ‘guys don’t do that’. No Predator-esque decapitations/vertebrae theft in sight.
How was that ‘at a minimum misguided’? Isn’t she allowed to object to some cluless dood cornering her an elevator at 4 AM to proposition her after she expressly stated that she was tired and wanted to sleep, and had just finished giving an address in which she had expressed how annoying she finds such behaviour? I wonder what Krstulich thinks her mistake was, other than failing to fall down immediately and worship teh mighty pee-pee, of course?
I don’t think this chap has a very good grasp of the internet if he thinks that Thunderf00t being booted off Freethought Blogs will take away his freedom of speech.
Thunderf00t is free to be an insufferable misogynist on his own blog and all over much of teh intertoobs, where his particular brand of entitled tomfoolery will doubtless be welcomed with open arms – his freedom of speech is in no way dependent on his ability to post on FTB.
It would take a spectacularly dishonest or epicly oblivious person to consider that the equivalent of book burnings. Fortunately, Krstulich seems to have both those bases well covered.
Oh, PZ, you and your ninja cephalopod death squads…
Seriously though – Krstulich actually thinks that it is credible that PZ means to have Thunderfoot killed? He really has traded reality for paranouid delusion.
It is news to me that uncritically accepting the claims of misogynists is now a requirement of rigorous scientific endeavour…
I am pretty sure that being cynical about the proposition; ‘women are human beings too, and should be accorded the fundamental respect that all people deserve’ most certainly does hurt people.
Oh teh noes! Some random angry dudebro isn’t going to read Pharyngula anymore? However are you going to cope now, PZ?
As threats go, this has to be on a par with threatening atheists with the fires of a hell that doesn’t exist.
Now that is just weird. And rather nasty, like all rape fantasies. I think we have a Hoggler here…
What is the betting that the defence of Krstulich or others like him will be “but you tell people to stick decaying porcupines up their bottoms all the time”. The difference being that we invite people to do that to themselves when they have been behaving rather badly (usually being revoltingly bigoted, or otherwise being disgusting by doing such things as engaging in rape fantasies like Krstulich), whereas Krstulich and his ilk specifically fantasise about the rape of the target of their ire by a third party (even where the choice of hypothetical rapists is deliberately ridiculous, as in this case).
The projection is strong with this one…
Krstulich Imagines that PZ craves his approval? Aww, naivete like that is kinda cute…
Why does this guy think he is the arbiter of what constitues a ‘true’ scientist, I wonder?
And yet, just a few lines before;
Oh look – a gendered insult paired with a crass and toxic meme about the ‘acceptable’ performance of stoic, unemotional masculinity.
It appears that Krstulich isn’t smart enough to realise that he is broadcasting his hypocrisy here. I imagine it is but one of the many, many things he is not smart enough to grasp…
You’d be surprised. It isn’t talked about openly but most assaults are committed by draguars. These are roving gangs of male jaguars in feminine finery (falsies, sequined gowns, etc.). Their attacks are almost always preceded by a string of shoe burglaries in rural villages. High heels are disproportionately likely to be stolen*
*Incidentally this is how conservationists estimate draguar populations. If 40 pairs of heels in Village A go missing in one night you know there are 20 draguars in the vicinity
What A Maroon, it there a title that you demand that you be called.
The only problem it this, I will ignore the demand and the title.
And want to kill you. But my restraint will make me look good.
Apparently, on the Internet, it is too much to ask to be allowed to bounce someone down your front steps on their ear if you invite them to dinner and they proceed to squat on your Persian rug and take a huge steaming dump. That’s a speech act, don’t you know, and everyone must be free at all times to say anything they want, unless it’s feminist or translates to “Will you creeps knock that off already?” As we used to say in my misspent yout’, some people’s children…!
Also, Josh, I love you in a completely platonic way, but in context, isn’t being all jaguary right here right now sort of like pinning a giant “I AM A RAPIST” sign on yourself? I get the joke, but I’m a little weirded out by it anyway.
A big contingent of the free thought movement thinks that “free thought” means “no limits at all.” Some limits are needed or codes of civil conduct between humans would not be possible. Taken too far, there’s bound to be a problem. “Free speech” has always been a tenuous freedom because lies, libel and slander are all technically protected by it, and sometimes shouldn’t be. What we are seeing in this entire controversy, right back to elevator gate and peoples’ unwillingness to simply adhere to a civil code of conduct and to accuse people like PZ of being fascist or two-faced is the result of expecting no limits and then becoming surprised to learn that they are actually expected to adhere to some. Any limit appears fascist if you don’t want to see it imposed on you.
I couldn’t stop laughing for a disproportionately long time after reading this.
I am now giggling madly over the cartoon image in my head Of Josh and SJ in the form of a giant anatomically correct jaguar dildo-cluebat as a visual representation of snark.
What part of “hope you get raped by jaguars in the Yucatan” don’t you understand?
Reasons have been given. The fact that you haven’t heard them is probably a function of those “reading for comprehension” skills that you demonstrated with the first blockquote I pasted.
And I’m more than a little weirded out by your defense of male circumcision recently, especially when you described it in terms of the “end-user” experience. Are we even?
Janine,
“Su pulpostad” will do quite nicely.
And if you ever lose your restraint, promise me that you’ll saute me in olive oil with some garlic and a touch of pimenton.
If you are ever in danger of being raped to death by jaguars in the Yucatan, you need only summon Ixchel. As the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war, she is obviously an early radical feminist, so she’ll have your back.
Couple more Tf snippets I transcribed. He is either himself ignorant of the meaning of the term ‘freethought’ or he is disingenuously encouraging that confusion in his viewers. He also is the source of the “banned from FTB” claim. Further, he claims to have been “banned” for “minor political dissent” about “feminism”.
oh
god
I will never be able to unsee that.
*wobble wobble*
And that, right there, is thunderf00t’s problem in a nutshell. What he considers minor is a big fucking deal to lots of us, and instead of recognizing that, he continues to double down.
Good riddance.
I know it’s your blog and you can post what you like but I don’t think this guy deserves the publicity you’ve given him. He’s trying so hard to be edgy but he just comes off as a boring troll. I want the thirty seconds it took to read his rant back.
nonny,
You’re in luck. One of the magical powers vested in me is the ability to restore time lost in reading inane internet posts. Now just close your eyes and count slowly…
One one thousand
Two one thousand
…
Twenty-nine one thousand
Thirty one thousand
Nonny, do you seriously think that if PZ just said nothing else about ThunderingFool, the latest clusterfuck would just end?
I’m wondering how long it took him to think up Vatican City as an alternative to the Third Reich. When Hitler stops being shocking, there’s always Reductio Ad Pontifex!
Something I find amusing about the whole “Dr Phil blows a gasket” saga is that Dr Phil and his defenders within the secular community seem to think FtB, a blogging hub run by avowed feminist PZ Myers, should for some reason allow people who misconstrue, misrepresent or miss the point entirely on gender equality the same ‘right to reply’ they quite rightly deny to creationists who misconstrue, misrepresent and miss the point of science.
If you’re going to host Thunderfunk’s blog, why not extend Ian Juby the same courtesy? At least Juby’s ridiculous evidences for God are sometimes funny, whereas Dr Phil’s tendency to piss, moan, and send forth his braying hordes every time someone dares to tell him he’s talking shite gets very old very fast.
I apologize for that. My brain is somewhat delirious due to day 5 of living in a sauna.
Feline peni are scary! Do not google!
I agree. It’s a triffling affair.
Penes.
To state the obvious:
It’s not fair to make any inferences about Thunderf00t’s character based on an absolutely fucking asinine letter just because this guy is a fan of Thunderf00t.
I hope nobody is.
I’m not usually one for conspiracy theories, but I have to wonder if t00t didn’t do this whole thing just to get more subscribers.
FTB provides a lot of exposure, doesn’t it? And I suspect there are a lot of people who had never heard of t00t before that are hoggling madly to his videos.
Why would you post something like this?
Penes
Once more, I am very sorry.
Inferences about Thunderf00t’s character can be drawn readily enough from his own fucking asinine writings.
M.A. Melby –
I don’t think anyone needs to consider his fans before judging his character. He put his character right out there on the curb with the garbage.
There is no need to. Most of us have already inferred ThunderingFool’s character based on his own words.
I don’t think we have actually. Maybe a bit of light allusion for comic purposes. I think TF’s character more than speaks for itself frankly.
Thunderf00t, the racist, sexist, half-wit?
Regression to the mean suggests that making inferences about his character based on other people could only help his reputation.
If you take the average of Thunderf00t and Phil Krstulich you end up with a passably literate Thunderf00t.
It may not be fair to do so, but it’s an improvement.
Whacko. But, having just walked through the Hall of the Americas at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, I appreciated the jaguar thing. There were some really cool antiquities there. And the Paleo Hall was very nice. My son enjoyed the planetarium’s show on black holes.
Well tough luck sonny-jim because i’m going to anyway. This guy is thunderf00ts fanbase nowadays because his (tf00ts) arguments are so abysmally poor that only total shit-heads like this guy could possibly agree with them.
So do I, because it’s completely unneccesary. Anyone who has ever watched one of Dr Phil’s “dramas” play out can see how puerile, crass, and narcissistic he is; all good qualities when it comes to debunking creationist fuck-poop in an entertainingly condescending manner, but which serve you poorly when you’re trying to pull a community together.
Josh —
You are on FIRE. You had me LOL — literally!
Phil Krstulich wrote:
It amuses me to no end that Phil Krstulich seems to think Thunderf00t’s actual name is Thunder F00t. As in “I hope you enjoy your stay with us, Mr. F00t” or “shall I have your ladyleg pre-warmed, Mr. F00t?”
Always with the accusations of violence. Why are they so quick to go there? Projection?
After reading through the comments, I got this disturbing image of PZ going all Oprah…
You get a blog, and you get a blog, and YOU get a blog…..
I think I need some stronger drink.
Reminds me of when Meatloaf was referred as Mr Loaf.
MA Melby:
You’re fucking kidding, right? I’m sorry, but T’f00t has made enough of an ass of himself in the past few weeks that seeing this kind of reaction from one of his supporters is not a fucking surprise.
WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE THUNDERF00TS!
No, they’re just incredibly fucking stupid human beings.
In caps lock, neon letters. It’s clear, if not exactly eloquent.
Raped to death by Jaguars in the Yucatan? I wonder how long that took them. It’s obviously their version of the decaying porcupine meme.
I did get a laugh out of the Slime Pit’s tagline, “porcupine free since 2012”. These assclowns are endlessly amusing when it comes to their notion of free speech and free thought.
If you want to get real formal, it’s Mr. Thunder J. Foot, Jr., I think.
I did once tell a troll to call me “Mr. 12” but I suspect I would have become confused had he actually done so.
What?! You appreciate rape fantasies featuring South American felines?
That’s disgusting!
Yup, brain officially melted now.
Freethought
“Not to be confused with Freedom of thought“
And just for good measure:
+++++
Freedom of thought
“It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.”
Oooh, I like this one. Keep it a while, please.
I’m still a bit hazy as to the substance of this dispute. I’m also a free thinker and have my own blog on blogger. I say whatever I wish anytime I wish and I’m sure a lot of people don’t like what I have to say. They can start their own blogs any time they wish, so I’m certain this blogger can do the same.
There are a lot of blogs I’m aware of but don’t regularly visit just because they don’t really appeal to me, not necessarily because I violently disagree with them. PZ’s blog is one of my daily musts. He’s clear, concise and logical. Even though he’s a scientist, I don’t need a Phd to understand his posts.
This vitriol is a bit disconcerting. Like Rodney King, I wonder why we can’t all just get along.
Crispy Creme Christ on an Incredulity Cracker, that was a bit much to wake up to.
Chap seems a tad upset.
Brownian:
Isn’t that a type of pasta?
jjg was promised a rape fantasy and he is sorely disappointed. I feel for him. The sweet expectation of the desired thing, only to find out it wasn’t there… Like opening the fridge and expecting that last piece of pie, only to find it isn’t there!
He was promised!
Because it is fucking hard and rather dispiriting to treat people who think that woman either do not face harassment or should shut up about it with respect.
Why is that so hard to understand?
I’ll try, but I start having technical difficulties* with the blog software here whenever I change my nym away from a couple of old standards. This’s why I had to drop old man jenkins pretty quickly.
*which are partly my fault and partly que sera sera
Rodney King was beaten to within an inch of his life by public officials. Those who rioted did so because they were outraged by years and years and years of abuse.
If not for the abuse by those in power, there would have been no riots. Everyone would have gotten along.
Audley, follow the link that I provided. That should answer your question.
*snicker*
allencdexter:
I’m sorry, what? This is a “must read daily blog” for you and you’ve never noticed that PZ (and the commenters) can be rather rude?
Either you’re mind boggling stupid or you’re a liar. Which is it?
Audley, click on Janine’s #233.
We like to keep the number of “deep rifts” somewhat equal to the number of “youz-is-all-a-hivemind”s.
Reminds me of when Meatloaf was referred as Mr Loaf.
Or when Hitch kept calling Mos Def “Mr. Definitely” on Bill Maher, except, oh right, that was fucking hilarious, while Phil here is just pathetic and rather dim.
Janine:
Why are you sorry? Those are fucking awesome. :D
*tootles off to see if peen pasta can be ordered*
You’re so almost there.
Because rational people prefer not to make accommodation for, or associate with asshole misogynists? /wildguess
It looks as if freethoughtblogs is committing suicide. What’s up with that?
Awe, yeah! Amazon will gift wrap your order of Weenie Linguini!
Nothing, dear. Go back to having that dream in which you’re cognitively distinct from religious folk.
Please explain, pip.
Janine’s link reminds me that I need to have the ol’ Q-tip up the P-tip test again.
Bad news for the dudebros. I’ve had a look around the shop and we’re fresh out of Yucatanian jaguars. We’ve got some Guatemalan jaguars but otherwise they’ll have to wait for a new shipment to arrive in six to eight months.
O.o
There are places that force women to wear high heels at work ?!?
My poor flat feet are curling in fright.
I don’t think this would fly where I live though. All workers here are covered for accidents / work-related illnesses – health care and salary.
No boss would willingly risk having to pay for the intensive orthopedic and physiotherapy care as well as the stiff fee that would undoubtedly result were they to force people into foot-destroying shoes.
Plantar fascitis, anyone ?
Pip – I didn’t know rolling around on the floor laughing at stupid comments was so similar to seppuku.
Brownian, I can’t believe I missed that. I don’t know whether to damn you, or have your babies.
<Snerk>
pip pip!
Meh, these guys really think that not reading FTB blogs are going to be a severe punishment to this community.
Please, be my guest and also boycott these sites by not commenting anymore.
Inca prostate exam or South American rape jaguar?
Oh brother…
You know, I did plan to refute this post in detail. But after that, nothing can be said. Nothing. There is no discussion. It is dead. DEAD!
There are restaurants which require waitresses, who are on their feet constantly, to wear heels.
Pene linguini.
I once had the searingly brilliant idea of making a penis-shaped breakfast cereal…PORNFLAKES!
I coulda been a contenda for the 1%.
Ambleberry, Pornflakes kind of bring to mind dried, well, secretions.
*back away slowly*
Janine:
Not if it pills first.
Eeeeeeew.
Pornnuts.
I.
Must.
Stop.
Will it cure my grape nuts?
Janine:
O.o
o.O
O.O
Eeeeeeeew.
Audley, you have no case to complain. You are the one ordering Weenie Linguini.
*snort*
Thunderf00t was being a complete idiot and an asshole, and utterly wrong. But removing his blog for it was simply abuse of your power as the admin here. I’d expect better from you; when someone thinks and says stupid things like these, they should be ridiculed and their arguments refuted, not censored (Yeah, I know you didn’t censor him completely and he still has his youtube channel and can still post comments).
To make a long story short, my opinion of both of you has dropped quite a bit by this ridiculous business.
But he thanked PZed at the end. He was being civil. So you see, that makes it all better.
Oh, horrors! Your opinion meant so much.
@293 First of all it was not PZs sole decision to fire Thunderf00t, especially since PZ doesn’t have that authority as Ed Brayton owns the network (though it’s run fairly democratically from what I understand).
Second: what part of this being a privately owned blog network do you not understand? He was invited to participate and when he abused that invitation was was fired.
So, jochematteveld, instead of lecturing about how badly PZ , what should have the FTB administration done.
(Though to be honest, in light of ThunderingFool’s call for war against followers of islam, he should never have been invited to join. But a lot of people here also admired Hitchens.)
Thunderf00t made arguments?
Did you read his blog posts?
“Why would you post something like this?”
TF put his foot in his mouth badly (very badly). As many people pointed out, he spoke for himself and it’s absolutely fair to judge him on that basis.
This is an individual’s letter and it’s MUCH worse than anything Thunderf00t has actually said (as far as I am aware) and I doubt very much that he would be anything but embarrassed and horrified that someone claiming to be his fan wrote this crap.
So, yeah, I was just putting that out there – and it seems that very few people are falling into the “guilty by association” trap that was just placed on the floor.
So happy we passed your test, M. A. Melby.
(sarcasm)
Melby, I didn’t ask why you think it would be wrong to judge TF by his fan’s stupid behavior. I asked why you would post something like that. If you had no evidence that anyone was doing that, why the vague finger-wagging at nobody? If you did have evidence that anyone was doing that, why the vague finger-wagging at nobody?
I’m giggling at the “Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought” section includes:
A different brand of penis pasta
Super Fun Penis Candy
Party Pecker Straws
Blue Balls Penis Ice Cube Tray
Crest 3-D White Advanced Vivid Whitening Strips
I understand the penis novelty items, but a teeth whitening system?
@243 You made me LOL uncontrollably! It was awesome!
Jessa, did you notice that Weenie Linguini had one Five Star review.
Good start….
Uh oh.
Power corrupts, amirite?
You forgot “young man”.
Ridicule and refutation at FTB? Perish the thought….
Yeah, PZ, you should really stop abusing your vast governmental powers. Next think you know, he’ll be taking away our virtual cupcakes.
Oh, wait, so you mean there are other obscure corners of the internet where he can post? So PZ isn’t all-powerful?
Another illusion shattered.
And we’re all crying in our cornflakes over the news. Please, anonymous internet user, whatever can we do to win back your respect?
Not to further pile on jochematteveld, but I really do not get this weird obsession everyone’s supposed to have with the opinions of their fans.
There’s all this blathering on and on about how the freethinking community is a beacon of rationality unto the darkness, and what’s the best argument people seem to come up with? “I don’t idolise you as much any more.”
It’s like the community of skeptics is the living embodiment of sad trombone.
jochematteveld,
Yes.
1) Why? You’ve simply asserted this. Support your assertion with logic and evidence.
2) Why do you imagine that Myers did it, anyway? Isn’t Brayton is the owner of FTB?
As you admit immediately afterwards, he hasn’t been censored.
But let’s get Socratic and follow this notion where it leads.
3) Here is a list of people who’ve been actually banned from this blog. Do you believe it’s wrong for all of them to have been banned; i.e., no commenter should ever be banned from any blog anwhere ever?
4) Do you believe that private entities like Brayton/FtB are morally required to grant a platform for everyone else’s views, even though it costs money/time/effort to provide that platform?
If you answered “no” to questions 3 or 4, please explain why a different principle should apply here.
5) Do you realize that if TF had been allowed to keep blogging, Brayton would have had to keep on paying him money?
6) Do you believe that employers should be obliged to keep all employees, no matter what stupid shit they say, and keep on paying them indefinitely?
Did you read his blog posts?
jochemattveld, I already explained this one today, so I will just repost my #186.
No it wasn’t. Jesus Christ. What is it, exactly, about a private blog network you don’t grasp? Ed Brayton put this together and it’s at his (and the other bloggers) discretion to decide who and what content they want here. Rocket science it ain’t.
Laden fucked up too and was uninvited. Hey, that’s part of life – figuring out that you have to take responsibility for your actions and words.
Janine:
Dude. I was going to send it to you– why else would I have it gift wrapped?
:p
jochematteveld:
Remind me, what is an admin’s job again?
By your own admission T’f00t wasn’t censored. Do you have a point or do you want a little bit of stinky cheese with your whine?
And I’m sure that there’s somebody, somewhere that honestly cares about your opinion.
MA:
Jesus fucking Christ, what is it about that brings out the trolling morons?
When did PZ advocate to give Ken Ham space at TAM? Or for that matter, at FTB?
What. Freethoughtblogs is a website, it is not a sentient being. What.
Nothing. He shan’t be reading these blogs any more.
Jessa:
Oh hey, if a dude is gonna impress the ladeez with all his mighty peen products, gotta have a pretty smile!
Fool. Removing a parasite from your network is not censorship.
M.A. Melby,
What Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy said at #301
Don’t next time. At least without pointing out whom you think you are addressing.
Audley:
You really have to ask?
And have you seen what his fans typically act like?
Geez, Louise. I’m an atheist, but you guys are starting to look like you’re trying to outdo religion with all the schisms and subgroups you’re forming, looking for or making up stuff to feud about. Think I’ll just take my lonely atheism and go elsewhere, thank you.
Goodbye, larry.
Caine:
I want to know what the hell their beacon looks like. Then I can totally dismantle it and maybe pretend that those morons don’t exist for an evening.
larryharnett,
Do you think we should agree about everything?
Or do you just think we should stop talking about the things we disagree on?
The part I emphasized is lulzworthy.
Damn. He leaves before I have a chance to say; Hello, Larry!
*hangs head in shame*
Crossposted from TET, with the same HUGE MASSIVE FUCKING GIANT TRIGGER WARNING and reading the headline should be enough:
Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up Tropes vs Women Creator
-shudder- someone is going to make a rape game next, I just know it.
If anyone needs me, I’ll be in the smoking room.
Leave a little atheism behind for the rest of us!!!111!
Aaaw, be sure to spread your lonely siren song all across the internet, Cupcake. I’m sure there’s another lonely Cupcake out there for you somewhere.
Allow me to suggest “to hell”. It’s funny because it’s ironic, since I’m an atheist, and you’re an atheist, which means we’re all going to hell anyway.
I struggled so hard not to do this.
Alas! I am weak!
Audley, I’ve read previous comments by M.A. Melby. I don’t know why xe’s saying such silly things, but xe’s no trolling moron.
Ah gee, another MRA fuckwit we care nothing about, because at the end of the day it says nothing but attitude in its post. Actual evidence and arguments might make us care. But crockaduck tears with attitude? I don’t think so Tim…
Setár, self-appointed Elf-Sheriff of the FreethoughtBlogs Star Chamber, #325, Ernst Hot’s link at #42 also discusses that game.
I’m sorry your atheism isn’t interested in equality Larry. Perhaps that’s why it’s so lonely.
(Is it me, or are these sudden huffmeisters like Larry all starting to sound like sock puppets? I’m getting suspicious.)
Great idea! We’re full-up on idiots around here.
I presume also of Benson who was quite annoyed at TF as well, right?
Cause everyone is just as bad.
Ahh yes, I remember the good old days when all atheists were in 100% agreement, there was no diversity, and none of them were opinionated, and there were no comment threads.
What in the world happened to atheism??????
Re Gregory Greenwood above, referring to Rebecca Watson:
Hang on… she MADE A VIDEO giving her opinion. On youtube even. Isn’t that teh Free Speech these dudes keep banging on about? Or is Free Speech only a right accorded to
real peopleguys?Nitpick: Yucatecan.
Splitter.
I know I’m late to the party, and I haven’t read all the comments yet… but the whole DMCA abuse thing was a big thing on YouTube a few years ago, and that’s ACTUAL unfair silencing of people’s voices. That’s different from the members of FtB deciding that T-f00tie isn’t a good fit for this blog network. You’d think F00l & The Gang would be able to tell the difference.
Brownian:
Okay, I’ll take you at your word for it.
It was an awfully trollerific post, though.
Loftus has written top 10 things he is against. top 3:
Oh what a lonely boy.
More apologies.
I am so very sorry.
I understand the penis novelty items, but a teeth whitening system?
My guess: the first four are for the bachelorette party and the last for the wedding.
Loftus is against Racism, Sexism, Misogyny, Homophobia and gay bashing. yet he is angry at the people who are struggling against that.
At least I died laughing.
(Before the other jaguars got me.)
I can’t dispute that. But if memory seves, such posts are not hir usual MO.
I imagine the exit reel as Larry leaves the stage. It’s very short.
Hey, the net can be tricky. I just accidentally triggered a Justicar/ScentedNectar tag team match on twitter. Didn’t even know it was Justicar I was trying to talk to. He accused me of using guilt by association.
Even if I were the type to do that, in Justicar’s case it would be overkill. He insisted I only hold him accountable for his own words.
Will do. So much to choose from.
Taking My Business Elsewhere
This one is a good song.
Janine and SC: Yeah, I thought of that connection about five seconds after hitting “Submit”. My brain is working slowly today.
FTB isn’t YouTube or Wrodpress. If one of those places had kicked Thunderf00t off for being a shitty writer and intellectually dishonest, I would complain. FTB isn’t about letting everyone have their say, though. Kicking THunderf00t off is no more an abuse of Ed and PZ’s power than not inviting him in the first place would have been.
So is rush Limbaugh. If you believe the way he tells it. You can’t magically decree yourself to be right or an ‘ally’
Jessa, we are all sluggish in the US right now.
It is too damned hot!
feralboy12 @ #250 wrote:
Jr., you say? I bet he’s always telling people “please, call me Thunder. Mr. F00t is my father.”
larryharnett, your atheism isn’t nearly as lonely as my atheism. My atheism is so lonely that it has to disbelieve in an inflatable God doll.
Jafafa Hots:
Heh. Neither one of them has a hope in hells of matching wits with you.
True. But the non stop tediousness will tear you up.
LOL. That’s for sure. Go get ’em, Jafafa!
I’m on my nook so can’t link but M.A. Melby blogs and sseems more likely to support Greta and Ophelia an PZ than t00t.
Sniff sniff
Thunderfart is invited to the party
Thunderfart lets off some huge stink bombs
Thunderfart is asked to desist
Thunderfart refuses
Thunderfart does some more
Thunderfart asked to leave
Thunderfart’s anal efflusions now waft where they are valued
Everyone’s happy except for the Thunderfart Appreciation Society.
I love FTB! Long live extractor fans.
@Hayden
You are wasting your time. Anybody with any reading comprehension can tell you aren’t defending TF, but to many of the people here, what he said was so bad that any attack is justified, it doesn’t matter if PZ responded to what TF actually wrote, all they care about is that he criticized TF. You say “neither came out well” and they read “Both were as bad as each other”, you say “some of PZ’s responses were to things TF didn’t say” and they read “TF did nothing wrong”
They aren’t mature adults and trying to reason with them as though they are is not going to achieve anything.
Pteryxx @ 337;
I get the impression that these MRA charmers think that free speech is a bonus perk that comes with a bloke’s standard issue pee-pee.
Or possibly they think that free speech is not a right accorded to a person as a whole, but rather is a right specifically of the peen itself. It certainly seems like they employ some organ other than their brain when they compose their inane comments…
Comment by gshelley blocked. [unkill][show comment]
Because i’m just that intolerant of your free speech
The penis is a Talking Stick.
I!
Should!
Shut!
Up!
Now!
Thunderf00t strikes out at P Z Myers again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mLHdTsmPc
Baseball pun intended! I did not know that P Z was the absolute ruler of Freethought Blogs!
Seriously, Thunderf00t seems to have lost his mind!
And bluharmony lies like Rangel on a beach chair, which is also exasperating.
Still unfunny, but points for originality I guess.
gshelley:
You should run off right now and hit up NG or TLC or Discovery for a show on your amazing psychic abilities! Truly. You’re just like all the rest of the amazing psychics – you don’t get a single thing right.
Hi all,
Can someone please point me to the considered and substantive exchanges on this whole PZ/TFoot/FTB thing? I’m arriving late and I get the feeling that the show is over, the quality commentariat have left and this thread contains the drunk teenagers still hanging around in the parking lot.
My concern is noted, etc.
When Thunderf00t was on FTB, he was being a total dick and acting like a child. His writing was rubbish. That is why I thought the owner of the site kicked him off.
SC:
All bluharmony has in life is lies.
Eew!
I am still trying to delete that image from my brain. It does not help that The Daily Show still likes to use it.
alanwilliamson:
Just so you know, we don’t use gendered slurs or insults here. Stick with asshole. Everyone has one.
Right this way: http://google.com/
@ 337,
No, she made a video about moving house and unpacking boxes. It lasted 5 minutes, was rather tedious to watch, and in it she made a 20-second offhand remark : “Guys, don’t do that”.
methferret,
It is.
Have you read this thread? It’s hilarious. Funniest in the last month at least.
What, you don’t like for us to have fun?
Thunderf00t -Trollin’ and immaturity for the win!
It is a shame. I am fairly new to atheism and I was ushered here largely by the two of you. I probably would have been content to be one of those “dictionary atheists” you despise so much, but for seeing the discrimination and hatred directed at atheists. I was heartened to see in increase in skepticism and a decrease in religiosity. I was excited to see a movement coalesce that might hasten the advance of a more secular society. Now I see the movement torn asunder over the the relative importance of sexual harassment policies at conferences. It is a shame.
I have no desire to take sides on any of these issues. I think it is a bit petulant to continue to take shots at Tf00t in this forum when you have banned him from being able to reply, but what is really disheartening is to see you and your followers go after Tf00t’s fans. I count myself among them. I can no more divorce myself from the vitriol directed at fans of Thunderf00t than I can the vitriol directed at atheists. I hope this will pass soon.
Except apparently Thunderfoot
Well see you’re wrong about that.
He has not been banned.
He could comment here if he wanted to.
Because to you, atheism per se is more important than women’s safe participation in atheist social spheres.
keithroragen:
Relative importance? What is that, Keith? How relevant sexism and sexual harassment is to those with penises?
Okay, thanks for letting us know you don’t give a shit about 51% of the population. That was terribly…irrelevant.
You’re a fucking idiot.
You’re obviously just here to be stupid and insulting, but here’s a nice breakdown of some of blunderf00t’s wrong for anybody who’s actually interested.
Jeezis christ on a cracker but it’s fucking sticky and disgusting and hot and horrible. Only good thing about the weather is it’ll probly keep the draguars inactive tonight so my heels will be safe.
ThunderingFool has been commenting about this. Just hot here.
But look at it this way, he can use the responses on YouTube to prove that he is still correct.
pharyngula DOT wikia DOT com/wiki/Deep_Rifts
Seriously, you expect me to feel bad about being mean to TFoot’s fans when
a) His fans were a huge problem and proved to be assholes
b) You’ve given me reason to dislike you personally
Hell, all you’ve shown me is that I was 100% right in judging all of Tfoot’s mouthbreather fan base as utter oblivious idiots
Does anyone find it odd to sign off a letter that includes insults, slander, and rape threats with “thanks”?
Thanks. I’m always so glad to hear about assholes’ apathy to behavior that disproportionately affects my life because it’s not their problem.
HAHAHAHAHA.
I hereby nominate you for most inane and oblivious concern troll of the thread.
Seriously, it was just last night that I was thinking “you know people may have a point, why am I so hair triggered and impulsively snappy at people. Occasionally that leads me into putting my foot in my mouth. Why don’t I slow down and start treating people nicer” then someone like keith shows up and I smack myself in the head saying “OH RIGHT NOW I REMEMBER!”
And there was rending of garments and gnashing of teeth.
The misinformation and misunderstanding of the ThunderFoot incident is working its way to Great Desecration levels.
Seriously people, read up before you open your mouth er.. keyboard and look like a giant fool.
Well, a lot of Thunderf00t’s fans are really terrible people, racist sexist stupid pieces of shit.
If you’re one of Thunderf00t’s few not-racist not-sexist not-stupid fans then surely you’ve noticed this already.
So if the criticism happens to not apply to you, don’t get all offended. We’re just talking about the vast majority of Thunderf00t’s fans who are sexist racist warmongers.
But you, hey, I’m sure you’re cool. You’re not like the rest of ’em. Right?
Right?
But apparently the vitriol directed at women, and the token males who consider them equal members of society, is a-ok with you. Thanks for laying out your priorities so plainly, dude.
And Jeebus, for the eleventybillionth time, TF is not fucking banned. He can comment here if he wants to. He can make 100 rebuttal videos per hour if he wants to. He can start his own fucking blog if he wants to. The total eradication of his 1st amendment rights have been greatly exaggerated.
Well you can fuck right off then. Intelligent, compassionate people understand that it’s necessary to take sides when you’re talking about justice. One important aspect of justice and equality for women is the ability for women to participate fully in public life, such as conferences.
So fuck you. You’re one more Thunderfoot fan who sucks. Just like Thunderfoot.
DEEEEEEEP RIIIIIFTS!
“Thunderf00t’s angry rabble”
Surely you’re not implying that Thunderf00t condones or is somehow responsible for this trollish post are you? He certainly doesn’t deserve ownership of every angry fool on the internet rising to his defense. This is the INTERNET after all. Examples of unrestrained viciousness leaping from the id of the anonymous, or at the very least, emotionally removed individuals typing from the safety and sanctuary of their home computers is not an unknown phenomena. Alas.
I really haven’t been following this fur ball very closely and obliquely experiencing it unfold this way makes my heart sink. I happen to love and respect all of the actors (I suppose I’ll call you) that I happen to know about. Thunderf00t, Rebecca Watson, Ophelia Benson, Blaghag, the Skepchicks, DJ Grothe, et. al. and especially you PZ. Everyone of you have been lights in my life that have helped me understand and develop a more articulate way of expressing my thoughts on atheism and skepticism as a worldview. Such shrewdness, competence, moxie and humor! Now look at you all. In-group / Out-group primate baloney.
I don’t know exactly what thunderf00t has said that caused you to shun him from this little (but potent) group of yours but it strikes me that you invited him into Free Thought Blogs for the admirable qualities he possesses in the first place. He’s been such a tremendous contributor to this cause of ours, why couldn’t this have been settled by discourse, by entreaty, and finally by tolerant consensus? And what’s so wrong with having an outlier in the mix? Maybe he’d come around to your perspective if you gave him a chance. Perhaps this internecine beef could have provided a way for all of us to hone our arguments.
Has his entire character been impugned by a week or two of impassioned disagreement? I should like to weigh an individual’s worth on the whole of one’s work and contributions and not on a single litmus test. Yes?
Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals. All of you are better than this.
dianne,
It’s probably a deliberate joke.
When I send scathing letters to advertisers I’m always gushingly polite at the very end.
However, sustained vitriol aimed at women is just dandy, amirite?
I’m about to do some susurring up in here.
Oh my fuck! Why do you do this? Why do you come into this thread and post your fucking two screens of whining schlock when you SELF-ADMITTEDLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING SITUATION? Fuck off!
sheepdip,
Not necessarily. Can you read?
Thunderf00t’s followers, they are angry rabble, are they not?
Whether they got to be more that way as a result of following him, now there’s a question for science!
You admit you can’t be bothered to read just why this happened, yet you have no problem giving orders to the participants. Go fuck yourself.
Great. An other .
I ask you for your wisdom, sheeptick. How much harassment should a woman put up with before she can complain? How much should a man ignore before he decides to he can side with the harassed women.
Please, fucking help us work this out.
You are better than giving us an empty lecture!
and where’s that, for reference? (I have this weird impression you’re from Germany, but don’t quite recall)
anyway, the policy and resulting drama I’m referring to is from Britain, from 2009*: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/09/16/us-britain-shoes-heels-idUKTRE58F3WL20090916
*there’s some new drama about EU regulations and hairdressers, but fuck if I know what that’s about, since the articles on the first page of google are dailymail & friends
he isn’t banned from replying, so you’re just making shit up.
receiving e-mails != “going after”
TF fans are a systemically disprivileged social group? (or differently: false equivalence)
What is up with all the hand-wringing, disillusioned commenters turning up here? I mean, Hand-wringers, does this usually work for you? I’m honestly curious as to what you hope to accomplish by such entreaties.
sigh
Then perhaps you should go read about it before you come in talking about shit you obviously know exactly nothing about.
Don’t you think?
another fuckweasel who thinks real-time communication is somehow magically better than a medium where you get to take your time to respond and can’t be interrupted.
*checks AARP card*
If you lie about mature adults not being here, what else will you lie about? Everything in your post is my conclusion, based on you being caught out in a blatant lie. Do try not be funny when your own hypocrisy is so easily exposed. It backfires, making you look immature and ridiculous…
if you don’t know what this is about, why are you in this conversation?
sheeptick:
Here’s a suggestion, Cupcake: you run right off with this message of luv to Tfoot and his fans at yootube, then deliver it to the Slyme Pit. Let us know what happens, ‘kay?
sheeptick:
Revealed, not impugned.
They did, thus the booting out of the incompetent one.
(Sheesh!)
Stop right there. Have enough self-respect and respect to the commenters here to read up, get a clue, then come back and give us your valued opinion.
We are primates, and it is in-group/out-group dynamics, but that doesn’t mean it’s baloney.
Try again, this time after informing yourself and putting your thinking cap on.
Because that would require TF to admit he went overboard, needed to back down instead of doubling down, and generally act with more maturity on his part than he was capable of. So, why make a fool of yourself pretending he is more mature than what the evidence shows. All the TF defenders keep ending up with egg of their face with facts. Why don’t you lose the ‘tude, and save your face?
*headdesk*
You may as well just come right out and state:
“I am an ignorant idiot, hear me pontificate!”
“another fuckweasel”
Yeah I’m a fucking monster. No question.
“somehow magically better”
So you’re suggesting misunderstandings that happen in print cannot be resolved by real time or better yet, face to face conversation?
Now why did TFoot have to be so mean to that nice Canadian Christian boy? Despite their disagreements why didn’t they talk it out like adults rather than get the DMCA involved and issuing ultimatums!?
You know I am not privy to the back talk here, but I’m going to take a guess that dialogue would have been easier if TF didn’t ignore e-mails and instead kept digging his hole deeper.
@Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy #385.
Thanks for the link. I guess I was just being snarky after getting halfway down the thread and despairing as to the calibre of conversation on Pharyngula.
I apologise if my comment was casually insulting to the thread participants.
You are not helping your case, sheeptick. People have addressed your self admitted ignorant concerns. And yet you will not answer in kind.
keithroragen,
This is always an amusement to me. What exactly is it supposed to mean?
It is so obviously a reaction like “Mommy and Daddy are fighting!” Do these people think that because two of their Atheist Parents are disagreeing, they are going to get a divorce and that is going to be The End of Atheism?
So PZ and Thunderfoot have an argument. What results do you think are going to come of it?
Me, I have this totally unsubstantiated gut feeling that it’s a good thing, because it gets more people thinking about sexism, but honestly I really can’t quantify that. Null hypothesis is that it makes no difference and I can’t think of anything that suggests otherwise. Regarding the general discussions about sexual harassment at conferences, American Atheists did come out with a good conference policy, so that’s a positive result in general near this issue, but it wasn’t a result of the dispute with Thunderfoot.
How does this actually “hurt atheism”? What does it mean when you say “the movement is torn asunder”? It’s so obviously just your gut feeling of discomfort — nothing necessarily follows from that. Fucking make a substantive argument otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.
sheeptick wrote @ #398:
I for one am glad you’re here to tell us all how you feel about a situation you admit to knowing nothing about, and fully intend to give your opinion every gram of weight it deserves.
you’re confused.
they cannot be resolved better than in writing, no.
what the fuck is it with privileging a form of conversation in which you can be emotionally manipulated, talked over, yelled at, interrupted, and have to try to think on the fly without the luxury of having the time to compose your argument?
No, your interlocutor suggested that face-to-face or telephone interactions don’t automatically (“magically”) resolve disputes better than written interaction does.
Do you always argue this dishonestly?
That requires the immature acting party, in this case TF, to back down. Until you show he was capable and willing to do so, you don’t have a case. TF was playing hardball, and it backfired.
@ Audley Darkheart #151
I should get two. My nym is considerably longer.
sheeptick,
Some advice.
When you come into a highly charged forum and basically scream
It doesn’t say much good about you.
SO my advice is to at least have a clue what you are talking about instead of coming in waving your arms and yelling
I loled, but …probably.
Only in text.
And then he proceeded to step into something he doesn’t understand, was dismissive of people’s first hand experience, knowledge, and criticisms. He argued in bad faith, and then he turned to his YouTube community to back him up with a laughably ridiculous poll.
Whatever goodwill got him the gig, evaporated when he double (or triple) downed on his initial post. It really doesn’t matter that he wrote poorly, he didn’t seem to be honestly engaging with anyone that was telling him “You’re wrong and here is why”
So until you go back and read a dozen blog posts, and a couple hundred comments from people who already have, kindly keep your ignorance to yourself please.
ixchel,
I think it will result in two factions squabbling with each other instead of working together towards a common goal.
Please tell me I am wrong.
If we get a schism that can make a less monochrome atheism then I will get my jackhammer and pound away at that fault line!
[ot]
Speaking of NG, the slime pit has left the Borg for sectors unchartered.*
As you were.
*you probably all knew that.
Sigh…uncharted
What sheepdip means to say is “I don’t like watching my Atheist Parents fight in public; it makes me feel like the Christian Kids At School have Better Families and they look down on me.”
(These are understandable feelings when little kids feel them as regards an actual family. It’s not okay to carry over this childhood response to every other public dispute between “big people” that happens later in life. Some fights really should be public, because we are trying to publicly change the culture.)
Which I might point out was a stupid idea
a) It ignored some troubling negatives
b) the talents he had, were not in fucking prose and PZ never got a preview writing sample. This was the equivalent of inviting a mime to a barber shop quartet
So, keithroragen, answer this simple question. How much harassment should women put up with for the sake of ?
what is this common goal in this case, and how is it more important than the minimization of sexual harassment of women, that it’s more important to sweep all disagreements about the latter under the carpet?
You are wrong.
The Thunderfoot faction was never interested in working towards any common goals.
As demonstrated by Mr. F00t (hee hee) himself, and his fans too, their only goal is feeling better and smarter than anyone else because that is part of their “skeptic/atheist” identity.
Any more questions?
keithroragen,
There are white supremacist atheists over at Stormfront.
Do you think it would be a good idea for us to “work together” with them toward “a common goal”?
(Hint: if you’re thinking mmmmmmmaybe, then you’re wrong, because we don’t really have a common goal with them; we want to make atheism a movement where people of color can feel welcome.)
keithroragen:
You’re wrong.
keithroragen:
You’re wrong.
AE:
They’ve made no secret of their location.
Would you really think so well of TF if he stopped addressing creationism claims because PZ was mean to him?
Yeah, it would be much better if one group of atheists (women) would just put up with being made to feel unwelcome and treated like shit and not make such a fuss about it. Because And
Here’s a hint: Just because you’re a spineless little shit, that doesn’t mean you get to expect us to be.
So is the Slymepit password protected?
Hiya Josh, Yucatan Jaguar of DOOOOOMMMM. RE #37… It might be my fault for bandying the term “banned” around all too loosely. I never meant it to go this far. :D
But seriously, fellow Banned Atheists… if you’re reading this, check it out: You got banned, but it’s just the internets. You have not been silenced. I don’t feel silenced, and hell, it’s my fucking username.
I got banned from DemocraticUnderground.com for engaging in an ad hominem attack on a bigoted troll. My crime? I called him a “bigot” and a “troll” and I got PPR’d from my favorite forum. Did I then mount a troll campaign to discredit DU?
Fuck no. I started my own blog. I have not been silenced, and neither has TF. I didn’t LIKE getting banned, but the fact is I DID knowingly violate DU’s TOS, which states that ad hominem attacks would get me banned.
I truly think FtB would benefit from this type of policy in the comments thread. It gets nastier in here than it ever does in the Religion forum on DU, and it’s mostly all atheists. WTF?!?
I might wear “Banned” on my sleeve, but I wouldn’t think twice about banning, for instance, #397 who writes, “Well you can fuck right off then.” See that’s an ad hominem attack that isn’t conducive to intellectual dialogue. It would get one PPR’d from DU in a hot second. Pretty scary when Catholics and atheists can debate more intelligently and civilly on DU than atheists and atheists at FtB.
If you have to get personal, you just lost the argument. If this was my site, you would also get banned. If two people were both getting personal, they would BOTH get banned.
That’s how I unpack it, Josh. What say ye?
Some of us atheists can wear “banned” as a badge of honor, because we took our lumps… but kept our perspective.
Rock on.
Oh, do tell. What is this common goal? Please state it, briefly. You’ve already stated there is only one goal, so keep that in mind.
I didn’t. What do you mean?
“Because that would require TF to admit he went overboard, needed to back down instead of doubling down, and generally act with more maturity on his part than he was capable of. So, why make a fool of yourself pretending he is more mature than what the evidence shows. All the TF defenders keep ending up with egg of their face with facts. Why don’t you lose the ‘tude, and save your face?”
Perhaps he would admit given the time. I do know the he’s been a pretty great guy for quite a long time and I find it hard to believe that his view that this is a small problem rather than a large one somehow erases all of that. Why was he invited in the first place?
I understand his plea for quietism towards this problem of sexism, threatening and obnoxious behavior can be infuriating but I don’t think he’s unsympathetic to the problem root and branch because of that. I believe he said so didn’t he? Call the cops on the offenders if warranted. Remove the offending oafs from the conference outright. He’s not advocating sexist behavior is he?
I don’t think it marks him as an awful person because he doesn’t think as you. People can be good and wrong at the same time. For every thunderf00t there appears to be 10 or 15 against amongst the Free thought bloggers. Talk about small problems. Allow the honest dissent, as long as it’s honestly given.
No. If you’re so intellectually weak that you can’t understand an argument because someone got personal making it, you’re not worth arguing with.
@bannedatheist
One might argue that you just insulted them and didn’t do an Ad hom arguement and thus didn’t voilate their terms. But they’re assholes
Oh never mind. You don’t understand it either and are an idiot.
Seriously fuck this civility idea in the goddamn eye socket with a barbed wire condom or chainsaw strap on.
Bannedatheist:
Are you simply attempting to demonstrate stupidity in action? Thunderfoot was not banned – he can comment anywhere he likes at FTB.
Sheeptick, I’m tired of your ignorant bullshit. If you don’t understand the fucking situation, shut the fuck up about it. Stop telling people who HAVE followed it closely because they’ve been fucking involved in it how you think things are based on your total fucking lack of research. It’s worthless and insulting.
TF was banned is going to be the new RW freaked out and humiliated a socially awkward guy.
Narrative being rewritten. Amazing how skeptics literally cannot recognize this shift even over the course of what, three weeks at most?
Ing:
Doesn’t seem to be, I didn’t go poking around.
SC, see the link @444. NG came down on the slimepit, so they’ve moved out of the Sciborg collective.
Just reread my #448 and last few sentences included some “you”s. Please note these are rhetorical “you”s — as in “one could say” == “you could say” etc. Not pointed at any one individual.
Just sayin’ — FtB would get better if they would put a posting policy in place that states that those engaging in personal attacks will get the ban.
Categorical no. Fine got ya. More than you know.
Given your apologetics for him, I don’t believe a word of your claims. That’s what you get when you don’t do your homework, and find out the FACTS before making as ass of yourself with ignorance.
His behavior and words speak otherwise. Quit making a fool of yourself defending the indefensible. It only makes you look bad.
Why should cops be called when it is against the terms of attending? Why should they be called except to eject someone who won’t leave when asked? You aren’t making sense…
Most of us here don’t think he is necessarily a bad person except he is not sympathetic toward women being harassed and how to stop it. Quit making a fool of yourself defending him. He can do that himself.
Your bare, bullshit assertion is noted.
bannedatheist,
Well, what was #397 in reply to. Let’s check.
Nope, I disagree. That’s healthy intellectual dialogue. Some people should fuck right off, and Sam has potentially identified one.
(I hold out a very tiny little hope that keithroragen is going to learn something here about why atheism plus anti-sexism needs to fight against atheism plus sexism, and why the former is better than the other. But until keithroragen learns this, Sam has made a valid call.)
“cupcake”
“Here’s a suggestion, Cupcake: you run right off with this message of luv to Tfoot and his fans at yootube, then deliver it to the Slyme Pit. Let us know what happens, ‘kay?”
It’s a terrible affliction my naivete. Do you always diminish people in these interactions?
See the #454, “Are you simply attempting to demonstrate stupidity in action?” would get one banned from DU in under five minutes…
I’m saying — GOOD!! Ban them! Ban TF!! Hell, I’d ban you, Caine!
You clearly misunderstood me, and then engaged in ad homimem attacks on me personally. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. A sane policy that everyone knows about SHOULD include requiring civil discourse, meaning one can’t just start hurling insults around willy-nilly. I didn’t engage in any such personal attacks.
I also have thick skin. Calling me names makes me happy because it makes the name-caller look like the tool they are.
@451. This isn’t the first Internet fight that THunderf00t’s been in. Can you name any examples where he backed down and admitted any degree of fault?
Oh yes that’s the best thing for dialogue! Draconian moderation that punishes heated debate.
Cause everyone loves thanksgiving so much that they want to make every single experience on the net a recreation of grinding your teeth and pretending you don’t hate the absolute fuckstick sitting across from you talking about how Obama should just show his birth certificate
Do you always presume to lecture people on things they understand better than you do?
‘Cause let me tell you, that would be some funny shit to watch.
How about you stop asserting stupid shit for five seconds and read the actual standards and practices here, and thereafter reflect on the fact that different people value different things?
bannedatheist:
Yeah, better for the trolls.
(bah)
—
sheeptick:
Exceedingly doubtful.
(The trajectory of his posting here strongly indicates otherwise)
[
Sure, but I didn’t chart it. Did Ngeo really slam the door? It was kind of hard to tell wtf was going on. Caine, if you did the homework on this, the kind thing to do is not make me, youl know…poke around in tthere. Cuz I’m not going to. But I wanna know.
]
Huh. I guess Christopher Hitchens never won a single argument.
I’d rather not go to their link, but that’s great news (not totally unexpected). Seems like just a few short weeks ago Abbie was saying how cool with it all NatGeo was.
Here are some of my goals:
I want AGW to be stopped and reversed.
I want my kids to have a fruitful and happy life.
I want everyone’s bodily autonomy to be respected.
I want everyone to be equal, regardless of superficial attributes like skin color or religious belief or gender.
I want war to end.
I want the Red Sox to win the World Series.
I want everyone to have sufficient food, drink, shelter, and health care to live a happy and productive life.
I want the world to be safe for everyone to wander through without fear of being attacked.
I want no to mean no.
I want to live half the year in Lisbon and half in Boston.
I want people to stop believing superstitious nonsense.
I doubt there are many people in the world who share all my goals. But if I had to sacrifice the last goal to achieve the others, I’d do it without hesitation.
But you do.
*sigh* That wasn’t an ad hominem.
Which is why I don’t post on DU. If I were commenting on a site with policies like DU, I would have said something along the lines of,
“It appears you don’t share our goals and are willing to subordinate equality for women to advancement of atheism. That is a compromise I am not willing to make. It makes me wonder why you bother posting here, when you could be conversing with others, who, like you, don’t share our interest in feminism.”
Saying you can fuck right off then is far more satisfying, and conveys the message better.
Wait, you WERE just talking about politeness, and now suddenly you bring intelligence into it. They’re not related. You haven’t established any relationship. Linking them, out of the blue like you just did, makes your comment look stupid.
Only stupid people truly believe this.
Whoops. Didn’t scroll my preview screen down. Naughty Sam.
Only stupid people truly believe this.
If this was your site, it would suck and nobody would be commenting on it.
And you would be left only with androids and Vulcans commenting.
No it wouldn’t.
Bald assertion, meet bald assertion.
Ahem.
What is the common goal?
Heh. I see that my point is well taken.
Excellent. Throw yourselves onto the pikes of my rhetoric. Hurl insults when you have no arguments. Say I’m not worth arguing with, because you have no argument to make.
But know this: it doesn’t work. You didn’t win the debate, and in the end, it is only the attacker who looks stupid.
DU learned this over the course of multiple iterations, and despite having been banned from the site, I accept it. I DID break the rule against personal attacks by calling a bigot a “bigot”.
If you read what I wrote, I said I think it was RIGHT to ban TF. I didn’t realize he hadn’t actually been banned, but I would have banned him.
If FtB WANTS to have a pit of insults, never mind. I’m not going to stay here and trade one-liners. See, I like fully formed sentences with clauses, and even better, well-formed paragraphs built like a sandwich. Call me crazy. Just don’t call me crazy on DU. (It’ll getcha banned.)
When they behave as immaturely as you have, yes. Your concern is noted. Now, its time to shut the fuck up, as you have nothing cogent to say. And it shows.
Fuckwit, look at the masthead. Do you see your name there? No, it says PZ Myers. And here’s what PZ Myers has to say about this blog, trumping your mere OPINION seven ways from Sunday, making it irrelevant:
Take you OPINION and shove it up your ass with a decaying porcupine–sideways. That is what you deserve for thinking you run this blog…
Delicious. If these sane posting policies that prohibit ad hominem attacks are so “stupid” (wow, that’s a ZINGER) then how come their site has about 10,000X as many viewers and posters?
Ah, evidence. MMmmmm.
Those who tone troll have no arguments, except tone trolling. And PZ’s word trumps their tone trolling each and every time. Funny how they never pick up on the fact they have lost the argument, and are tacitly conceding defeat on the argument prior to their tone trolling.
“sheeptick:
Has his [thunderpod’s] entire character been impugned by a week or two of impassioned disagreement?
Revealed, not impugned.”
I’d say impugned. Taken on the whole he’s a great guy. Keep in mind he’s not advocating rotten behavior towards women but rather that it’s not a big problem.
“Get on the phone all of you. Talk. Work it out and then come back to exemplify our ideals.
They did, thus the booting out of the incompetent one. (Sheesh!)”
I read this blog a lot and didn’t see this. I read some email interaction. I’ll take a link and shut up if true. He’s hardly incompetent. I raise your “Sheesh!” with a Please.
[meta + OT]
bannedatheist:
It’s not your tegument’s thickness that you demonstrate, and thickies such as you clearly are thus made happy because you don’t see the substance of such comments for the names you get called.
(Calling people tools isn’t name calling? ;) )
It’s the Sheeptick show! All baseless bullshitting, all the time!
bannedatheist wrote @ #448:
Um, no. I’ll gladly take substance over style, please. If you can’t handle grownups saying ‘fuck’ to each other, find another blog.
Um, maybe because people who argue in good faith are more concerned with the validity of ideas than the tone in which those ideas are expressed?
It’s telling how you conveniently ignored the rest of the paragraph immediately following the sentence you lifted. You know, the one where SamStrange made their argument. Why do you care more about whether someone says ‘fuck you’ than whether they make a sound argument?
Did you really just write that? Consider the following:
Person A: “The sky is orange.”
Person B: “Oh fuck off, the sky is blue.”
By your logic, Person A wins despite be demonstrably wrong. That is incredibly fucking* stupid.
* Congratulations! You win, because I used the ‘f-word.’
No no that’s ok. No need to address any points made just go ahead with insults.
Seriously, how fucking hypocritical and/or stupid are you?
@BannedAtheist
I keep feeling like you don’t understand ad hominem.
If someone says something bigoted, you are free to explain why it is bigoted, from experience that effort is wasted and calling them a bigot is the shortcut. Similarly if someone is being a troll.
Telling someone to “fuck off” is perfectly fine if they are going to fence sit on a topic that clearly has two sides.Thunderf00t’s article made statements regarding the importance of conference and the level/existence of harassment, not surprisingly people disagreed with much of his content.
Do you feel that Thunderf00t sufficiently made his case and adequately addressed the criticisms? If you’ve been following then you have an opinion on this, if not then your ignorance on the subject doesn’t further the discussion and you’re encouraged to stop contributing.
Since it is not a problem to TF, but it is a problem to us, we win by default. Your OPINION shows you don’t understand the problem. Deal with TF, not us. Why can’t you do that, go to the source of the problem, which is TF and his ego?
I couldn’t see otherwise from his actions while here. Quit apologizing for him. He can do that himself. Why isn’t he????
Shit, sheepcake, I fucking love it when a engages in harassment of me.
Fuck ThunderingFool.
And fuck you for not understanding why this is a problem.
#478 — Excellent. There it is. There’s the TOS I was looking for.
Interestingly, it’s the same Terms of Service that 4chan/b/ has, minus Desu and, y’know, humor.
So, really, everybody just comes here to insult each other? Really? Wow. Is there ANYONE who is willing to have a civil discourse with someone they find they agree with, if they would just stop hurling juvenile names at each other.
It’s pretty sad. I thought it was a classier and more erudite crowd than that. Guess everyone’s just practicing for sparring with the /b/oys at 4chan, because this isn’t intelligent. It’s not entertaining, either.
No longer sure what the point is, but it’s been illuminating.
Ta-ta!
Oh, yeah, and…
sudo !!
“We are primates, and it is in-group/out-group dynamics, but that doesn’t mean it’s baloney. Try again, this time after informing yourself and putting your thinking cap on.”
I understand we are primates but I refer to the dynamic as base and it certainly seems like baloney. I’m learning more and more all the time as I read and sift. Sorry I wade in late, perhaps you’ll change my views on intolerance towards thunderf00t by entreaty.
Yay! More bare fucking assertions!
What a worthless fucking waste of comments.
“This is new! I usually don’t get rape fantasies, but Thunderf00t’s angry rabble have opened up exciting new vistas. The whole point of free-thinking is to express what you have been thinking to others; what would the point of Socrates’ trial have been if he had not made the impressive speeches he made? If the […]
You are not helping your case, sheeptick. People have addressed your self admitted ignorant concerns. And yet you will not answer in kind.”
I didn’t write any of this
Comment by bannedatheist blocked. [unkill][show comment]
What a fucking asshole
AE:
I don’t know all that much, however, yes, it does appear that NG finally paid attention to the email[s] they received in regard to the slimepit and told Abbie they had to tone it down. Naturally, tone it down being anathema, there was an immediate discussion about preserving the slimepit, that bastion of freethought and free speech and also honouring Abbie. (Yep, for realz.)
(If you click on the comments for any Sciborg/NG thread, you’ll see each comment has a ‘report abuse’ link.)
A forum has been set up for the SP and the last I heard, there was a heated debate about whether or not to allow editing. It appears to be causing a DEEP RIFT!!1!
That’s all I know, ’cause I have no wish to go poking about in there.
Now the sheepcake is throwing together random quotes.
This is not the brightest troll.
FFS sheeptrick the HTML code for quoting is right above the damn box you comment in.
An excellent summary of your blather.
Will you go the fuck away and read?
Oh god…that long scree about what a hero Abbie Smith is was fucking hilarious.
“I for one am glad you’re here to tell us all how you feel about a situation you admit to knowing nothing about, and fully intend to give your opinion every gram of weight it deserves.”
THAT is fine. I’m learning as I go. I think it’s okay to express the opinion as long as I disclose my knowledge, yes? But I don’t think the opinion is completely without merit. I’m not really addressing the specifics you understand.
It happens frequently. When one sticks to the topic, doesn’t troll like you are doing, and argues in good faith, meaning they can be wrong. You aren’t there yet. You can’t be wrong, even if you are. This is PZ’s blog, not yours. You should apologize to PZ for presuming you have any say in how he runs his long running blog. That would show honesty and integrity on your part…
Here’s some advice from an old fart. Shut the fuck up and listen. It’s given to MRA fuckwits, but you need to do the same thing. Your mouth is ahead of your mind.