Comments

  1. Sven DiMilo says

    fuck, more link borkage. I meant to link to the comment in which Josh reported Laden’s changing his comment. I’m not about to track it down again, sorry.

    Gotta go!!!

  3. Knockgoats says

    Hi SC, since you’re around, did my comment on your latest blog post (2 or 3 days ago) get through?

  4. Lynna, OM says

    To celebrate Threadmas, I made a sour-cream chocolate cake, with cream-cheese frosting. Even a guy with recent mount damage, say, for example, the Professional Poopyhead, could carefully chew some and enjoy. Such a nice bite, with the sweetness of cake mixed with the tang of the sour cream and the little bit of cream cheese. I must say, for not being a very good cook, I’m proud of this one.

    BTW, loved all the Threadmas carols, especially the submission from Pygmy Loris. Others were also good, and I sang them out loud (good think I work alone).

  5. Brownian, OM says

    Even a guy with recent mount damage

    That’s happened to me before. Now I take precautions before mounting anything.

    Yep, precautions and penicillin.

  6. Brownian, OM says

    BTW, loved all the Threadmas carols, especially the submission from Pygmy Loris. Others were also good, and I sang them out loud (good think I work alone).

    Yeah, me too. If you folks could do that on a regular basis you’d have poor Cuttlefish turning positively white.

  7. MrFire says

    Dust:

    and I’m older than Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM

    Try the Christian Baby DietTM and you can keep your youthful lustiness, the way I imagine she does.

    (On a more serious note, I’m real, real sorry about your job).

    SC:

    You know what tastes soapy to me? Tilapia. I find it inedible.

    Up until now, I’ve had so much respect for you. But this…

  8. badgersdaughter says

    Kiyaroru, drop me a line and I’ll e-mail you back the same recipes I sent Josh.

    And your grandmother made chicken soup. Doubtless it was excellent, but it’s not the same thing.

  9. SC OM says

    So, my favourite hockey player was Wayne Gretzky (natch!)

    :) Bleh. I always liked goalies. Quirky ice poets like Dominik Hašek.*

    Hi SC, since you’re around, did my comment on your latest blog post (2 or 3 days ago) get through?

    No! I checked yesterday, and there was nothing from you. I would never not publish one of your comments. Let me check again…

    *Linking several Thread and blog themes: The first time people started to think I was a witch was when a hockey player who had stood me up – on the day I had my wisdom teeth pulled (not a big deal in my case) – was injured shortly thereafter. In my defense, he was an NHL goon and not a blogger, so this was an occupational hazard.

    :)

  10. badgersdaughter says

    Oh, dammit, sorry, my e-mail is my username up there with the usual “at gmail.com” appended to it. Anyone who wants the recipe may request a copy. I sent Josh five recipes, three of the dish itself for comparison, and two necessary accompaniments. Too long to post here.

  11. SC OM says

    Up until now, I’ve had so much respect for you. But this…

    Dude, you linked to Squeeze.

    *runs*

  12. badgersdaughter says

    I have been … ordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and connected to the network all night long tonight so they can get in and futz about with network security or some shit.

    Uh, that is some shit. I work in IT. We are forbidden to leave our computers logged in and unattended. Our IT department has a master administrator account we can use to log in and do stuff that the user accounts can’t even do, which is best practices and standard procedure throughout the industry.

    If anyone in IT asked me to do this, I would “accidentally” “forget” and bring my work laptop home with me “like I usually do.” I also figured out how to bork the remote access that the IT staff is supposed to be able to do without my consent. Last time they tried that shit on me without asking first, I repeatedly shut down my computer until they came and asked me why I wouldn’t let them work. And I gave them a large piece of my mind with whipped cream and a cherry.

  14. Jadehawk, OM says

    Jadehawk @ 5, did you mean “п разу око?” Or “п разы око?”

    I meant exactly what I wrote, since I was writing in Polish. I don’t know what the phrases above mean exactly, even though they look kinda like what I wrote. *shrug*

  15. Knockgoats says

    SC, OM,

    Ah, I’ll repost if I can recall what I said! I’m puzzled though, because I thought it went through.

  17. Brownian, OM says

    Jadehawk @ 5, did you mean “п разу око?” Or “п разы око?”

    I miss Kseniya.

  19. SC OM says

    I don’t have any difficulty appreciating that. No one but the most deluded believes that capitalism is some sort of magic force for good.

    No, your beliefs about it are completely magical. They should be based on a reasoned assessment of history.

    If corporations can use the coercive power of government to entrench their own position, then they will – and they do. I thought you realised that I was aware of this, since I am an outspoken critic of, inter alia, farm subsidies and protectionist measures, which are promoted by Western agri-business for their own interests and which impoverish people in the developing world.

    This is typical. I want you to not speak again about agricultural subsisies (of which, globally, you know little) and address the actions of corporations that have been recounted to you here time and time again.

    No one thinks that corporations are angels; that’s a strawman conception of libertarianism.

    Who gives a shit about “libertarianism”? I’m addressing what you said specifically.

    But I can’t change any of these things.

    Pardon?

    On the other hand, detained refugees are a different matter: my own national government is depriving them of their civil liberties,

    Amd what is the history of that? What is the reason for that? Whose interests does that serve?

    and that’s something I feel morally bound to fight against using the means at my disposal.

    These include historical analysis. You’re a student at fucking Oxford.

    Unlike the global economy, it’s something that is, to some extent, within the scope of my influence as a citizen, as a (future) lawyer and as an activist.

    Strange lines you are drawing.

    As I understand it (though I’m not an expert in these matters), libertarian theory

    No one – no one – gives a flying fig about libertarian theory. Get it?

    does not rest on the assumption that corporations are interested in anything other than profit. Libertarians accept that the primary purpose of a corporation is to deliver a profit to its investors, and that it will do whatever is in its power to maximise that profit. But because of the effect of the “invisible hand” of the market, this does – in theory, and sometimes in practice – lead to effects which maximise efficiency and productivity. Libertarian theory, as I understand it, rests on the (relatively well-founded) assumption that many human beings are motivated primarily by self-interest, and that they will be more efficient and productive if they derive direct financial reward from producing goods and services that they can sell to people.

    History.

    Of course, its major downside – as I have acknowledged – is the ever-expanding consumption of resources, and consequent environmental cost. And I agree with you that this is a very serious threat, and something which the free market cannot possibly handle. But I don’t think that’s an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether, merely for using government regulation to conserve environmental resources.

    History.

    It’s possible, of course, that this is an overly optimistic view on my part. Any government is to some extent influenced by dominant financial interests, and when those interests want to consume more resources in order to make more profit, it could be argued that government regulation will tend to serve the interests of the largest corporations rather than those of society or the environment.

    History.

    But I have hope that this can be tempered by a certain amount of activism, on the part of those of us who know and care, against iniquitous government policies (like Western farm subsidies and tariffs) which help the wealthy and hurt the poor. And I think there are ways in which government regulation, within a capitalist economic framework, can effectively conserve resources: look at the success of the system of transferable fishing quotas in Iceland, for example.

    And you think wrong. I’m sorry, but you do. Any improvements or controls are temporary and easily captured. Moreover, the system is fundamentally wrong and undemocratic – why should communities, as part of the world, not decide economic matters like they do political (in theory)? You want to argue, on the basis of little or no historical knowledge, that your ideal conception of economic arrangements will ultimately (the theory says!) bring about the best world, their ideas about what’s best for them be damned. In this you sound just like Marxists.

  21. WowbaggerOM says

    Hmm, Cath the Canberra Cook hasn’t come back to clarify the Wowbagger confusion issue.

    That comment totally threw me – not the least because I haven’t been to Canberra in years – but because it made me wonder if her handle was only chosen for its alliterative value rather than it’s geographical precision; i.e. that Cath was someone in Adelaide who’d used her keen powers of deduction (or induction; I tend to get the two confused) to work out who I am and happened to meet me and realised who I was – but hadn’t told me who she was and that she’d put two and two together and got infinitely prolonged.

    I’ve yet to actually meet anyone while referring to myself as Wowbagger. I don’t know how I’m going to cope at the GAC when using it to introduce myself to people; it’s a great handle (and a much-beloved character from a much-beloved book written by a more-beloved-than-nearly-any-other writer) but it’s kind of silly for meatspace.

    This is what happens when you’re a noob on a blog and, in your rush to comment on something you’re excited about, you grab the first thing that comes to mind to put in the box.

    Oh, I’m rambling because I’ve way too little sleep, something I’m currently referring to as ‘Fringesomnia’. Current show count is 12 shows in 6 nights.

  22. David Marjanović says

    cilantro? hot?

    It’s… strange. It’s not actually hot, because it doesn’t hurt on my lips, but inside the mouth I find it similar.

    oh and btw, don’t think I missed the part where you were offering to bite me. I’m just still trying to figure out if it’s worth getting you pissed off more just to get bitten more. it’s a tough choice, you know ;-)

    :-)

    I don’t actually need to be angry for that, you know… there are things I don’t normally do that I would do for people…

    And thanks David M, too.

    :-| I just wish I could, you know, help.

    But like David, I like the soapy taste.

    As I said, I don’t actually find cilantro soapy… at least not in soups, and I haven’t had any elsewhere.

    But then, I haven’t licked at soap much.

    How do you folks follow anything?

    The Power of Procrastination

    (Though I did write my entire first grant proposal today. It was limited to a page, but shortening stuff isn’t easier than just adding more and more and more information.)

    Or “п разы око?”

    The latter, but with п in Greek lowercase (the number, you know…) and the rest in Polish spelling.

    The first time people started to think I was a witch

    :-) :-) :-)

    And now I’ll submit this somewhat lengthy comment before singing Threadmas Night. Not that another 100 comments were posted in the meantime.

  23. Brownian, OM says

    But because of the effect of the “invisible hand” of the market, this does – in theory, and sometimes in practice – lead to effects which maximise efficiency and productivity.

    So how come airline food is so universally shitty, and when it’s not, it’s because it’s non-existent. Government subsidies?

  24. SC OM says

    Knockgoats and windy, I’m so sorry! Your comments have now been published. I must have checked the meter but not the moderation.

    So… the street was so straight and empty and your wheels so perfectly aligned that you survived it?

    Apropos of nothing, Siesta was one of the strangest movies I’ve ever seen.

  25. Knockgoats says

    Ah – I went to Salty Current to repost, wrote a new version, tried to post it, was let down by my broadband connection, refreshed – and there’s the original! I do believe in leprechauns :-p

  26. AJ Milne says

    The reason I bring this up is because this hypothesis came to me in a flash at some point in Grade 8 when I noticed one of my fellow students had posters of Alyssa Milano in his locker and I thought it was a very nuanced choice, as if Alyssa Milano were the Shelby Mustang of pin up poster girls for the 80s.

    While this is probably true in your friend’s case, in this case, it was just the first thing I could come up with that had some assonance with ‘cilantro’ when I went grepping in my archive of hot starlet names…

    …so, technically, I could still be gay. Or even an AI. Or a dog. On the internet, no one knows, y’know?

    … but I hear ya on the cars/sports thing. Wasn’t so much the abusive father, in my case, but I just never got into any of that stuff. Hell, even in sports I actually do, now, I’m not much for following pro stuff at all.

    … re the hockey thing, what’s especially annoying is when you’re traveling in the US, and there’s this natural assumption that since you’re Canadian, you were born with skates on (presumably, Canadian mothers find this uncomfortable, but they’re tough, see?)…

    And while I can, technically, skate, and even pretty well, I can’t name one current player in the NHL, owing to the fact that I just don’t actually watch any TV sports (the only Olympic stuff I’ve seen yet, I kid you not, I’ve seen in a bar in a ski lodge while getting dressed or undressed before/after boarding)…

    So I’ve often thought there should be some service you could get on your smartphone for these situations: sports smalltalk helper for those who truly don’t give a damn. It could give you talking points–who’s winning what, why you should care, y’know… So if some guy in a job interview or somethin’ making nice to the Canadian asks an opinion, you could say somethin’ like ‘I hear the Habs have a good shot at the playoffs this year if player X stays off the injury list’, and then quickly change the subject.

    (/Or create a diversion and flee the room. Anyway.)

  28. Apolipoprotein E says

    Can I ask the people here for advice?

    I was in class yesterday where we discussed the anthropological implications of the risk of women traveling alone. Four of the men in class had basically said that when a woman is rape, it was her fault for being too provocative, and not using her reason/common sense. I had wanted to retaliate by saying that “I wanted to steal their liver because they provoked me to do it by showing how healthy and vulnerable it was and that they should have use common sense and not travel alone” but I thought my statement would be rather impotent. What should I have said?

  29. Knockgoats says

    Walton can talk about the “invisible hand of the market”, and still claim his beliefs are not magical!

    *chortle*

    OTOH, Walton, kudos for your intention to do some voluntary work for detained refugees. These are indeed people right at the bottom of the pile, and appallingly oppressed by the state.

  30. David Marjanović says

    <sigh> Looks like I’m already too tired. I cite one possibility and say “the latter”. Yes, разы is it, letter for letter.

    Amd what is the history of that? What is the reason for that? Whose interests does that serve?

    Or in other words…

    Everything is the way it is because it got that way.
    – J. B. S. Haldane

    I don’t know how I’m going to cope at the GAC when using it to introduce myself to people

    Don’t introduce yourself. Wear a nametag, shake people’s hands, and say “hi”.

    There are reasons why scientists wear nametags at conferences, you know…

    = = = = =

    Anyway: Threadmas Night. Someone mentioned snark…

    Silent snark, unholy snark,
    Bacon crisp, chocolate dark,
    Make me want to sing like a lark.
    Burgeoning Internet romances – hark!
    Much more fun than Fark
    (or as the Isle of Sark).

  31. Carlie says

    I’ve often thought there should be some service you could get on your smartphone for these situations: sports smalltalk helper for those who truly don’t give a damn.

    There was a funny sketch (maybe SNL?) I saw once about an iphone app to make it look like you’re listening to cool music when you’re not, complete with prompts as to band names etc. I’ll have to look for that later.

  32. SC OM says

    It can get worse, you know. Much, much worse.

    So part of my school story is that I was so sickly that I missed so much school that had I gone to public high school I could not legally have graduated. Hence my extensive knowledge of TV trivia.

    There was a show in like the ’90s (I don’t think I was sick, but I did see the first few episodes) in which the lead character was in the music business. In (IIRC) the pilot episode, he was on a first or second date with a woman and talked about his favorite song – can’t remember what it was, but I think it was good. She was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s one of my favorites, and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdj9NRzqC4 .”

  33. badgersdaughter says

    ApoE: I’m just throwing one out here, but who says rape is limited to attractive women? Would those men, if they ever were raped, as is not uncommonly the case, think it was their fault for seeming “provocative”?

  34. SC OM says

    OTOH, Walton, kudos for your intention to do some voluntary work for detained refugees. These are indeed people right at the bottom of the pile, and appallingly oppressed by the state.

    I second that, and apologies for not saying so earlier.

  35. David Marjanović says

    <headdesk>

    Wrote “as” instead of “than” (a specifically German error; “than” is als) and then had to watch that for a minute, helplessly, because comment submission is so slow! That’s cruel.

    As mentioned, I’m seriously tired to…night.

    Oh, and… chocolate with two syllables… is that British-only, like medicine?

    On the internet, no one knows, y’know?

    As I already said: it wasn’t difficult to figure out that Cuttlefish is not human.

    So if some guy in a job interview or somethin’ making nice to the Canadian asks an opinion, you could say somethin’ like ‘I hear the Habs have a good shot at the playoffs this year if player X stays off the injury list’, and then quickly change the subject.

    I’d like to post an extremely offensive song about one of Vienna’s two football (…soccer…) teams. Unfortunately I’d have to explain a lot of background first, and I don’t want to be mistaken for a fan of the other team either…

  40. Jadehawk, OM says

    Oh, and… chocolate with two syllables… is that British-only, like medicine?

    it has only two syllables in American English, too.

  41. Pygmy Loris says

    Apolipoprotein E,

    The difference between a woman who has been raped and a woman who has not is that the latter has not been alone with a rapist. It is the presence of a rapist, not a woman’s behavior that ultimately dictates whether she will be raped.

    Shakesville has some great posts to give you a starting point. Rape Culture 101 is a good place to start.

    Within the anthropological context, you could discuss the relative cultural positions of men and women, and how the structures and mores of particular cultures create an environment where women are perceived as responsible to the actions of men.

  42. Katrina says

    Dust: my condolences on the loss of your job. Especially right now.

    To all: Happy Threadmas!

  43. Carlie says

    What should I have said?

    @528

    1. The only thing that all rapes have in common is the presence of a rapist. Old women have been raped, toddlers have been raped, women who were barely dressed and falling over drunk in the street have been raped, women who were at home in bed with the doors locked have been raped, women who were traveling alone have been raped, women who were traveling in groups have been raped. The only way to ensure that a woman doesn’t get raped is for the rapist not to do it.

    2. Anyone who thinks that women are just “asking for it” by virtue of showing a bit of skin, or by being friendly, or simply existing, is a pretty serious misandrist. It’s not feminists who think poorly of men; it’s men (and women) who think that men are so stupid, uncontrollably sexualized, and unable to control themselves that they simply can’t help but rape any woman who sets off their horny signals.

  44. Lynna, OM says

    I’ve been vindicated for highlighting the trend of mormons sucking up to catholics. The trend to rehab the catholics in mormon eyes as something other than the “Whore of Babylon” is speeding up.

    When the mormons stepped discretely behind a catholic/evangelical false front when it came to anti-gay campaigns that followed the PR disaster of the Prop 8 campaign, I figured there would only be more of the same. So, now they love the Whore of Babylon and have invited her to speak at BYU repeatedly.

    The latest example includes Cardinal Francis George speaking, greeting LDS apostles Elders M. Russell Ballard and Quentin L. Cook, and BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson at BYU devotional, yesterday (February 23).

    I guess that getting in bed with the Whore of Bablylon is preferable to allowing gays to have a life. And, of course, secularists are dissing god right and left, so this is an emergency.

    he fight to defend moral principles is linking Mormons and Catholics like never before.
         “In recent years, Catholics and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have stood more frequently side by side in the public square to defend human life and dignity,” Cardinal Francis George told nearly 12,000 students, faculty and community members gathered Tuesday at BYU.
         “I’m personally grateful that after 180 years of living mostly apart from one another, Catholics and Latter-day Saints have begun to see each other as trustworthy partners in defense of shared moral principles.”
         Believed to be the highest-ranking Catholic official to ever visit BYU, Cardinal George spoke about the need for both religions to stand together to protect religious freedom — not simply as a set of private beliefs, but the ability of individuals and groups to practice their religion in the public square.
         “Any attempt to reduce that fuller sense of religious freedom, which has been part of our history in this country for more than two centuries, to a private reality of worship and individual conscience so long as you don’t make anyone else unhappy, is not in our tradition,” said Cardinal George, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Archbishop of Chicago. “It was the tradition of the Soviet Union.”

    His message was echoed by Elder Dallin H. Oaks, who spoke recently at BYU-Idaho.

    “Religious values and political realities are so interlinked in the origin and perpetuation of this nation that we cannot lose the influence of Christianity in the public square without seriously jeopardizing our freedoms,” said Elder Oaks, a member of the LDS Church’s Quorum of the Twelve.
         Protecting those freedoms, despite theological differences, is so crucial that both Catholics and Latter-day Saints are seeing themselves as “spiritually united,” said Robert George, a devout Catholic and professor at Princeton University who spoke at BYU in October 2008….

    The article is three pages screens long, so there’s lots to enjoy if you like horror shows.

  45. Carlie says

    Pygmy Loris – ha! You posted that while I was hanging on my comment checking out Shakesville’s rape posts. Couldn’t find the one I was looking for(it wasn’t the same one you linked to)so I gave up.

    Happy Threadmas to all, and an extra tankard of grog to Dust. Hope things get better soon.

  46. Pygmy Loris says

    Apolipoprotein E,

    One way to turn the discussion around on the males in your class would be to ask them if they think they are entitled to put their penises in the vagina of any woman they find attractive, regardless of her feelings on the subject. If they say no, ask them why it matters how she’s dressed then. Ask them why they don’t find it insulting to their entire gender that they’re saying men are incapable of self-control. Tell them that in other cultures and at other times in our own culture, provacatively dressed has meant showing ankles or knees. Ask them how much flesh women should cover to be “safe” from rape. Tell them that people from infants to the elderly have been raped. Ask them how much clothing an infant should be wearing to avoid being raped.

    You can also look them straight in the eyes and ask if every woman they had sex with actually said yes.

    This will probably make them defensive and uncomfortable, but it’s rather satisfying.

  47. Knockgoats says

    G’night all (00.15 here). BTW, I’m tiring of my current nym, and may change it soon. Of course, I’ll announce it if I decide to do so.

  50. Katrina says

    Jadehawk:

    Where I grew up in Oregon, we pronounced chocolate with three syllables. My kids, who spent four of their first seven years in Italy, sometimes pronounce it with four.

  51. MrFire says

    Oh hey, it looks like they’re making a documentary on the origins of the Tea Party Movement.

    You can see the trailer here. It’s pretty informative.

  52. SC OM says

    Ask them how much clothing an infant should be wearing to avoid being raped.

    Sickeningly, needed to be repeated.

  53. llewelly says

    Knockgoats | February 24, 2010 7:19 PM:

    BTW, I’m tiring of my current nym, and may change it soon.

    Wait, no, don’t do that. I just barely learned to stop associating it with the wanton abuse of virgin animals.
    Anyway, goodnight, and rest well.

  55. Lynna, OM says

    We’ve noted the unholy alliance of mormons and catholics before. Just one example: the subject came up when PZ blogged about “How Not to End the Scourge of HIV” (Novembere 29, 2009), and the Uganda-The Family -Apostle Ballard-Robert George connection was made in the comments. The Manhattan Declaration and other anti-gay, anti-secular sulfurous pronouncements make it harder to fight HIV, harder to promote equal rights, and harder to have a reasonable discussion about separation of church and state.

    In the current meeting of the axis of religious evils (see comment 544), we see the same players, plus the ubiquitous Apostle Dallin Oaks, about whom PZ also blogged [October, 2009]. The emphasis on political action is heating up. The latest mormon-catholic festivals of self-congratulation include calls to political action.

  56. WowbaggerOM says

    BTW, I’m tiring of my current nym, and may change it soon. Of course, I’ll announce it if I decide to do so.

    I know what you’re doing – you’re just hoping for another round of people -like those who didn’t realise you have an OM under your previous moniker – will nominate you for one, aren’t you?

    I don’t think I could bring myself to change mine. I’ve never had a reputation before; I’m kind of attached to it…

  57. Carlie says

    Another way to turn it around, especially with the traveling alone argument, is to ask why exactly the responsibility is on the victim rather than the person committing the crime. It would make just as much sense, if not more, to say “Men really shouldn’t ever travel alone without an escort, because it isn’t safe. You never know when he’ll go nuts and try to rape somebody!”

    There’s a great list out there on the internets that is in the style of “how to protect yourself from rape” posters that instead is “how to not be a rapist”, but I can’t find it. :(

  58. Carlie says

    I found a reference to the list I was thinking of – looks like the original post is no longer where it was, but the reference had the first three tips for avoiding being a rapist:

    1. Don’t put drugs in people’s drinks in order to control their behavior.
    2. When you see someone walking by themselves, leave them alone!
    3. If you pull over to help someone with car problems, remember not to assault them!

    There have been several other versions, one long one here, including:

    8. If you see a woman in a parking lot, don’t rape her.

    9. If you see a woman walking alone at night, don’t rape her.

    10. If you see a woman in a short skirt, don’t rape her.

    11, If you see a woman with long hair, don’t rape her.

    12. If you see a woman walking down a dark street at 4 AM, naked, don’t rape her.

    13. If you see a woman who is not carrying pepper spray for self protection, does not know karate, does not have a gun, and is not even holding an umbrella to ward you off, still don’t rape her.

  63. Lynna, OM says

    There are enough anti-Catholic slurs in the writings and speeches of mormon bigwigs to bury the Vatican, but never mind all that. I’m sure it was just a misunderstanding. They agree on the basics, including the fact that rape is embarrassing … for female victims; and that what is really important is that all the babies get incubated and then raised up into obedient tithe-paying bigots.

  65. Dust says

    Thanks to all for your kindly comments concerning my recent job loss. Fortunately, I live frugally, am out of debt and have a good amount of savings, but still…..

    My hopes for a good year for 2010 we dashed last month with a suicide in my extended family…something that may of contributed to my ‘bad attitude’ (ya think?)

    I get to find out first hand how brutal suicides are to families and it is just terrible and difficult to communicate the terribelness. Don’t like it, not one bit.

    So, first that loss and now this loss, well shit I’m not the most resilant person and am concerned about depression creeping in.

    Sigh, had a good bike ride tho.

    Oh yeah…BACON!

  66. MAJeff, OM says

    Oh hey, it looks like they’re making a documentary on the origins of the Tea Party Movement.

    How far back in time are they going? The Know-Nothings? The Klan? Father Coughlin? McCarthy? Nixon? Reagan?

  67. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Ooh! Are we drinking for Threadmas? I have enough $3/L sangria to induce a coma!

    Happy Threadmas, everyone!

    And my special thanks to our tentacled overlord. I really appreciate what you’re doing here, PZ.

  69. SC OM says

    And my special thanks to our tentacled overlord. I really appreciate what you’re doing here, PZ.

    Yes, it so often goes unsaid. Thank you, PZ.

    ***

    PS to MAJeff: I tried to text you today but have a new phone that I don’t get. Didn’t receive the e-thing. I’m in, though, of course, whatever it says.

    :)

  70. aratina cage of the OM says

    And my special thanks to our tentacled overlord. I really appreciate what you’re doing here, PZ.

    Hear hear, strange gods! A Merry Fucking Threadmas to all!

  71. MAJeff, OM says

    PS to MAJeff: I tried to text you today but have a new phone that I don’t get. Didn’t receive the e-thing. I’m in, though, of course, whatever it says.

    Might be in your spam folder…I’ll re-send the link.

  72. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    About an hour and a half for thirty more posts to reach the 28,000 total, Svens goal. We can do it.

  73. kiyaroru says

    badgersdaughter #508

    My Hungarian Grandmother, who immigrated from Hungary where she learned to cook from her Hungarian mother, called the result of the recipe I posted “paprikash”. It did contain paprika. She’s forty years dead so I can’t ask her if she meant “soup”. Maybe it’s a regional thing.

  74. badgersdaughter says

    Kiyaroru, since as best I can determine it means “in paprika sauce” we’re probably both right. It’s not anything like my Hungarian immigrant father’s recipe, or any similar recipe called that in cookbooks, though.

  75. Lynna, OM says

    Atheism book found in home linked to fire suspect

    DALLAS – Investigators have seized books on demons and atheism as well as rifles and knives from in a home linked to one of the men charged with setting an east Texas church on fire and suspected in a string of similar blazes.

    I think the investigators may have missed the most telling aspect of the derangement that ended in burning a church, namely that Bourque and McAllister were childhood friends who used to attend the First Baptist Church in Ben Wheeler — well, that right there is more apt to explain torching the place.

  77. llewelly says

    Apolipoprotein E | February 24, 2010 6:31 PM:

    Four of the men in class had basically said that when a woman is rape, it was her fault for being too provocative, and not using her reason/common sense.

    If you get shot, it’s your fault for standing in front of the bullet.

    I think you should have spoken up with your liver example. It’s fair, although maybe it should be more succinct.

    The “provocative dress/behavior justifies rape” argument relies on two assumptions: (0) provocative dress or behavior makes rape more likely, and (1) that makes rape ok. The first is claim for which I have never seen evidence. People have lots of anecdotes, but I’ve got plenty of my own. The second is an example of the naturalistic fallacy; just because it is natural to act on a desire does not mean it is ethical to do so. I’ll second the recommendations to go read the posts on rape culture at Shakespeare’s Sister.

  78. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Just a quick check-in to say hi to the Pharyngulite Horde, especially the three Pharyngulettes who constitute (in Lynna’s felicitous phrase) the other three sides of my “love square.”

    I haz much intertubes and real life dramaz (dramaz, not srs bzness) to put to bed.

    Oh and also to badgersdaughter – thank you for the paprikash recipes!

  79. Carlie says

    And also, yes, thanks PZ. This site has grown far beyond what you ever probably thought you’d have to deal with back when you started, and it stands as one of the most easy to navigate sites I’ve been at, with clear expectations of behavior and excellent moderation thereof. Watching everything go down at other blogs makes me realize that we might not notice how good we really have it here, but we do.

  80. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Dust, that really sucks, that you have to deal with all this at once.

    So, first that loss and now this loss, well shit I’m not the most resilant person and am concerned about depression creeping in.

    You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends. Depression will make you less motivated to do these things, but they’re necessary to prevent depression from worsening. :

  81. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | February 23, 2010 10:19 PM

    – w

    + 1

    = 27745

    Post #345

  82. Lynna, OM says

    Oh, goodie, Utah is proposing more laws that will turn victims into criminals … especially if the victims are women. Measure on illegal abortions heads to governor

    The Utah Senate has joined the House in allowing homicide charges against expectant mothers who arrange illegal abortions….ome Senate Democrats attempted a last-minute amendment to remove the word “reckless” from the list of criminal acts leading to miscarriage. They argued that criminalizing reckless acts leaves open the possibility of prosecutions against domestic violence victims who return to their abusers only to be beaten and lose the child.
    “It’s part of the cycle of domestic violence,” said Sen. Luz Robles, D-Salt Lake City.
         “I hope none of you ever have to face that situation,” she said after realizing the majority would pass the bill as is, “or have a daughter facing that situation, or a granddaughter.”
    But the bill’s sponsor, Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, said the bill doesn’t target victims at all — only those who arrange to terminate their pregnancies illegally….

    See also http://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/
    And this: http://jezebel.com/5479032/the-next-anti+choice-target-miscarriage

  83. Carlie says

    Sooooooo cloooooose….

    Sorry to hear the drama, Josh. I’ve been roiling in a few of my own lately too. So energy sapping.

  84. WowbaggerOM says

    I honestly had no idea that coming here (after reading a random article on a site I now don’t even remember) to find out who this PZ Myers person was, and why he was tossed out of a cinema screening of some creationist film in the US would lead to this site becoming a constant fixture in my life.

    The thought of it shutting down is enough to keep me awake at nights – well, if I wasn’t already being kept awake at night by the sheer volume of information running through my brain as a result of all the wacky theatre I’m seeing.

    Funny – watching tv never seems to lead to insomnia. Kind of telling, isn’t it?

  85. aratina cage of the OM says

    Bourque’s girlfriend and family live discovered paperback books titled “Demon Possession” and “The Atheist’s Way,”

    Demon Possession, if that is the right book, is a Christian book. The other one reeks of woo in the title and the Amazon.com reviews. This use of “atheist” as a dog whistle for “immoral” in the news report only encourages me to be more vocal about atheism. Atheism is not a dangerous idea—theism is.

  86. Lynna, OM says

    Josh @578: Hi right back, oh manly side of the Love Square! Take care, and may all your dramas sort themselves out.
    First Wife, Lynna

  87. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    First Wife, Lynna

    You do know that Number One Wife must walk 12 steps behind. . .

    (ducking and running with a giggle)

  88. Lynna, OM says

    You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends. Depression will make you less motivated to do these things, but they’re necessary to prevent depression from worsening.

    I want to second this recommendation from strange gods @580.

    Depression that is easily understood and therefore “justified”, that is, depression that stems from loss of a job or loss of loved ones (in this case, both), can be used to also justify withdrawing. Even if you don’t feel like doing so, go out with friends, or do like I did — make yourself go for a hike in the great outdoors. You don’t have to be up to your usual standards with your friends, nor do you have to accomplish anything, nor meet any goals, etc. Just go.

  89. boygenius says

    I would also like to thank PZ for having created this (magical?) environment. Thanks also to the OM’s and other commenters (even the trolls)that make this place fun, educational, thought provoking, and downright hilarious at times.

    Although I’ve been reading Pharyngula for just under a year, I’m quite addicted and don’t know what I’d do without it.

    Merry Threadmas to all!

  90. Caine says

    Between the animal activist thread and the RDF thread, there is a wealth of stupid going on. So I’ll just say I cannot abide cilantro, might as well chew on a bar of soap. Yecch.

  91. Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM says

    Posted by: Dust| February 24, 2010 3:37 PM

    Thanks Brownian, OM.

    Job hunting in the USA always sux but especially these days, and I’m older than Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM (that Crusty Cow [did I get that right?]) so job hunting should be fun!

    (No longer a)BRIDE! You have a lot to answer for!

    GGGRRRRRRR!!! err… MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

    Anyways, good luck, Dust. (Wait! Is that also younger than you?) Being severely under employed, I sympathize.

    If Nick Knock Goats is going to change his name again, perhaps I should also. It should be something that reflects who I am. Call me Buttercup.

    One last thing. SC! The next time you link to a dog awful pile of shit, please give a warning! At least I warned people they were linking to a Donny And Marie bit!

    A raspberry for everybody the Threadmas!

    And an other raspberry because I just wanna be with you!

  92. badgersdaughter says

    Just go.

    If you have no friends, as I may soon, or if you have evil friends who dissolve into their own juvenile drama at just the point when you need them most, like mine are, then there are still things you can do.

    Stay in touch with people. Any people. People at the mall, people at work, just give yourself human contact.

    Activity is good, even solo activity. A study was done recently that showed that daily exercise was as effective as the usual medicines for mild to moderate depression. I bought an exercise bike. I get on the thing whenever I start feeling deadly gray. It works for me.

    As for going outside… meh, I can’t speak to that; I live in Houston and nobody ever goes outside around here. :)

  94. Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM says

    Josh! Lynna! I will NOT be walking behind anyone.

    ‘Now has a very stern look on her face.’

  95. Carlie says

    Speaking of drama, I’m dealing with email fallout from the first exam of the semester. I ask questions that require more than a single letter choice of a pre-fed set of statements! I require learning of material! I assume that things I’ve said are important! Blargh.

    I assume Janine is second wife – am I number three? And does that make me Margene?

  96. MAJeff, OM says

    Dang, it’s snowing out. The one night all week I can’t sit home…

    at least it’s warm enough to snow…

  97. Lynna, OM says

    Demon Possession, if that is the right book, is a Christian book. The other one reeks of woo in the title and the Amazon.com reviews. This use of “atheist” as a dog whistle for “immoral” in the news report only encourages me to be more vocal about atheism…

    Very good point, aratina cage.

    Demon Possession is a Christian book. The headline was sensationalist and sloppy. Unethical.

  98. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Josh! Lynna! I will NOT be walking behind anyone.

    ‘Now has a very stern look on her face.’

    Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

  100. badgersdaughter says

    Janine, don’t forget, it’s easier to give wedgies from the back than from the front.

    Three wives? Hmm, according to Islam Josh gets another one. I’m not applying; I’ll just sit over here with a glass of red wine and my knitting and be wry Sister Badger. :)

    Speaking of red wine, I feel like having people over. I know I’ve only been vocal in the threads for a little while, but I’ve been lurking for years. What say you to a small get together at my place in Houston?

  101. WowbaggerOM says

    Wasn’t the goal to get to post number #600? My brain is way too frazzled to do any maths right now.

    Hilariously, I got an email from my editor in which he expressed his concern regarding the impact of my busy schedule. His rationale? That I’d made two typos in the last review I sent in. I explained it was more due to haste than fatigue – though that was yesterday, and I’ve had one more night of poor sleep since then; it may now actually be more about brain-sluggishness than having too little time to do a thorough edit.

    Am now heading out to purchase myself some chamomile tea to see if that’ll help me drift off tonight.

  102. Carlie says

    Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

    That’s an awful lot of breasts.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  103. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    If Sven’s numbers are correct, Badgersdaughter is our 28,000 poster on the eternal thread. Merry Threadmas to one and all. We made it.

  104. SC OM says

    If you have no friends, as I may soon, or if you have evil friends who dissolve into their own juvenile drama at just the point when you need them most, like mine are, then there are still things you can do.

    Like keep hanging here!!!

  105. badgersdaughter says

    Whoa, I was totally not expecting that!

    Whee, here’s some confetti and ticket tape

    ………………….

    __________________________

  106. Lynna, OM says

    Oh, of course not! I have a better idea. Let us four all walk . . . abreast.

    I always enter rooms breast first. Walking abreast sounds good.

    Oh, and to the other lady-loves of the Official SpokesGay, the “First Wife” comment was meant as irony + sarcasm + comedy.

    I am highly amused by our Official SpokesGay’s declarations of love for the ladies. He gets so much action!

  107. SC OM says

    One last thing. SC! The next time you link to a dog awful pile of shit, please give a warning!

    Sorry! But what was so amazing was that a network show was mocking it. OK, so it was cancelled right after that…

  108. Jadehawk, OM says

    You may have to make conscious effort to keep doing the things that you enjoy, and spending a lot of time with friends.

    sorry to highjack this bit, since usually it’s really good advice, but I feel the sudden urge to vent.

    I deeply, passionately hate the “spend time with friends” advice for depression. For one, I rarely ever had such friends (I had two in Seattle… and before that, I had one in 4th grade) so reminding me of that back when I hadn’t come to terms with my loner-dom made me even more depressed; and two, spending time with “people in general” (this being the second half of that piece of advice usually) always meant putting on my public persona, i.e. the one who isn’t anti-social and unhappy and generally grumpy; which was exhausting, and ALSO just made me feel worse.

    I eventually solved that problem by cultivating coffee-shop friendships, i.e. getting to the point where the staff knew me by name, but since they were at work I could mostly ignore them and read, while still being surrounded by people I could exchange a word or two with if necessary, and who didn’t get insulted because I left whenever the fuck I had enough of human company.

    :-p

    soooo anyway, I hope you’ll figure out how to avoid falling into depression, dust! good luck and everything.

  110. Jadehawk, OM says

    at least it’s warm enough to snow…

    if it makes you feel better, it’ll snow here tomorrow… :-p

  111. Lynna, OM says

    I assume Janine is second wife – am I number three? And does that make me Margene?

    Margene has by far the cutest clothes — though that’s not saying much when it comes to the ladies of Big Love. Still, there was that episode in which she wore a stewardess costume (short skirt, little hat — kinda like the lates 1960s or the 1970s — adorable). Margene is also the sexiest one. Oh, yeah, she also has a pink (check? polka dots?) bikini.

  112. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    I am not a number! I am a free woman!

    Janine, mistress mine, just in case. . .you do know I’m just playing the cheeky, naughty role of SpokesGay, right?

  113. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Thanks, Jadehawk. I’m aware it might not be useful advice for people who don’t have a lot of IRL friends at the moment, but I don’t know what else to say to those people.

    Except “keep doing the things you enjoy and schedule them on your calendar to ensure that you’ll actually do them instead of procrastinating, and find a psychiatrist who will do talk therapy as well as prescribing an antidepressant.”

  114. Ichthyic says

    a little late, but:

    Uh, that is some shit. I work in IT. We are forbidden to leave our computers logged in and unattended. Our IT department has a master administrator account we can use to log in and do stuff that the user accounts can’t even do, which is best practices and standard procedure throughout the industry.

    yes, you would think it strange, but the reason they want the comp logged in with the primary user’s account is specifically for the active directory update.

    normally, you wouldn’t, but the way active directory works, it has to set permissions for the primary account for each user for each directory, both in the registry and on the disk itself.

    if you aren’t logged in with the account at the time it tries to upgrade, it will fail.

    and, no, an admin account won’t do; unless you yourself have set your account with full admin privileges from the very first.

    In fact, it’s why we never went with active directory when I was in IT.

    Too much hassle to upgrade :P

  116. David Marjanović says

    I miss Kseniya.

    Who doesn’t.

    What say you to a small get together at my place in Houston?

    The closest I’ll get anytime soon will be Pittsburgh, in mid-October.

  117. strange gods before me ॐ says

    BTW, engaging the advice of Pharyngula.

    I have a friend who’s in her fifties and suffering the empty nest. She is employed, but they’ve cut her hours, and she spends a lot of time at home. She has confided in me and only me that she thinks about hanging herself from the basement rafters. She doesn’t have more than a couple of friends, and she has always been antisocial; in the decade I’ve known her, I’ve never convinced her to go out and meet more people. She did promise me that she would look for a therapist, but she hasn’t started going to one yet. I know her children, and they do not know that their mother is contemplating suicide. She does not want me to tell them, and she spoke to me in the strictest of trust.

    What should I do? My gut tells me that she is safe at the moment, but I don’t know that this will continue.

  118. badgersdaughter says

    Oh, it’s an Active Directory thing, mm? Oh, OK. I support a non-Microsoft database product. That “oh, just log in and leave” behavior just raises all sorts of red flags with me. Thanks for the explanation.

  120. cicely says

    Deck the trolls with snark from Mollies,
    fa la la la la, la la la la
    Pass around the bacon lollies,
    fa la la la la, la la la la.
    Fill your mug from the beer barrel,
    fa la la, la la la, la la la
    This concludes my Threadmas Carol,
    fa la la la la, la la la la.

  124. David Marjanović says

    Typical of me. First I complain about being tired, then I “get sucked into the drama” till 3 at night, and now it’s over half an hour later.

    As usual, Jadehawk and SC are right – if (like me) you don’t really have any friends in meatspace, keep hanging around here.

  125. Dust says

    Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse,OM quiried

    Anyways, good luck, Dust. (Wait! Is that also younger than you?)

    Ahem, I may be older than dirt*, but I’m younger than dust.

    *but then again, I may not.

  126. Carlie says

    Ok, I’ll take the outfits and the jewelry business, but I am NOT having any more babies, and that’s that.

  128. SC OM says

    What should I do? My gut tells me that she is safe at the moment, but I don’t know that this will continue.

    Does she have goals?

  129. Carlie says

    Sadly, I have never once watched an episode of Big Love (as I don’t have HBO), but I’ve read recaps of almost all of the episodes because I find it strangely fascinating.

  130. David Marjanović says

    What should I do? My gut tells me that she is safe at the moment, but I don’t know that this will continue.

    Help her find a community online… and actively get her a therapist. I don’t think she’ll do it herself.

    bacon lollies

    ROTFL!

    David– Pittsburgh? Visiting the Carnegie?

    That’s probably planned as a side effect of this little meeting of easily 1000 people.

  131. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Josh, be my beard and I’ll be your beard!

    OK everyone, in the key of F major –

    “I’ll always be Alice Toklas, if you’ll be Gertrude Stein. . .”

  132. Antiochus Epiphanes says

    David M: Ah. I bet some of our paleovert people will be there also. The Carnegie is fun.

    Tips on visiting Pittsburgh: If you want to blend in wit the natives, grow a thick moustache, wear black and gold, and when at a loss for words simply say “Go Stillers”.

  133. Carlie says

    strange gods – seconding David’s advice. Online community (hopefully one that can help her segue into a live one, like Drinking Skeptically or the like). If she’s a good friend and nearby, start up something together that she can continue without you once she’s comfortable with it – nothing that’s specifically social, but interest-based. Chess club? Curling? Volunteering at Planned Parenthood to be an escort for the patients? Knitting club to knit Linus Blankets or prosthetic boobs? I’m trying to to think of things that would be social, but not considered necessarily as such, so her exposure to people would be secondary to the main task, and if the main task is feeling useful by helping others, so much the better.

    Also the same with the therapist – if you’re really concerned, you might have to be the one to make an appointment for her and take her there. Depression creates some strong-ass inertia that is really difficult to overcome.

  134. Lynna, OM says

    LOL, as is often the case, Steve Benson, grandson of the former Prophet of God, Ezra Taft Benson, comes up with great Utah stats:

    According to this source–(who personally knows the former head of the Circle K convenience store chain Karl Eller; who got the following information directly from Eller; and who then gave me explicit permission to share it)–before the advent of the Internet, the top Circle K outlet in its worldwide chain for the sale of Playboy and Penthouse was (drumroll, please):
         the Circle K store in South Provo

  135. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Does she have goals?

    She wants to help her children and grandchildren in any way she can.

  138. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Can I just say I hate bad writers? Just sayin’. Why do people who type things such as, “It is to be hoped that,” and “After consultation, it was decided by all present that. . .” think they have any business drafting public communiques?

    Sweet Jeebus. Deliver me from Writing by Committee, and from the passive voice.

  141. Lynna, OM says

    Sadly, I have never once watched an episode of Big Love (as I don’t have HBO), but I’ve read recaps of almost all of the episodes because I find it strangely fascinating.

    You can get the series from Netflix.

    Regarding the question from strange gods about a friend who mentioned suicide: only an expert will be able to tell if your friend is in danger or was just venting during a difficult time. You can’t tell, you can’t judge. This puts you in a hard spot, either having to honor her request for secrecy, or having to breach her trust by arranging some help. My brother thought a high school friend was joking when he talked about suicide, but the kid killed himself about a week later. You can’t ignore it. But maybe you can give your friend a chance to keep the secret from her children (for now, anyway) by arranging for a therapy session and taking her there.

  142. Katrina says

    I wanted to thank PZ and all of the regulars for this blog and the endless thread.

    I started following Pharyngula in the fall of 2007, when living overseas. It had become evident, over that summer, that I was going to have to home-school my oldest son. There is a paucity of good science material in the home-school curricula. And so I turned to the internet for resources, and found Pharyngula. I have been here, mostly lurking, ever since.

    So I offer a toast to the hoard; some of the good Sicilian Nero d’Avola we brought back with us. I look forward to many more entertaining and (especially) enlightening discussions.

    Thank you, everyone, and cheers!

  143. SC OM says

    She wants to help her children and grandchildren in any way she can.

    And they want and need her. My grandmother died when I was little (Thanks, RCC!), but I’ll always remember her. I can’t even imagine if I had had the time to study music and piano and everything with her… It doesn’t matter the field – it makes a difference. They need you there. Few appreciate it at the time, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t important. And aside from that, what she wants to experience is important!

  144. strange gods before me ॐ says

    I’m taking in everyone’s advice. Thank you! I’m not sure exactly what I’m going to do yet, but I am listening.

  145. Lynna, OM says

    Katrina, my children have graduated from school and are busy with new careers, but I still use Pharyngula to continue their education (and mine). Both kids have been delighted by some of PZ’s posts that I forward to them.

  146. llewelly says

    strange gods before me ॐ | February 24, 2010 9:27 PM:

    She doesn’t have more than a couple of friends, and she has always been antisocial; in the decade I’ve known her, I’ve never convinced her to go out and meet more people. She did promise me that she would look for a therapist, but she hasn’t started going to one yet.

    Going to see a therapist is a social interaction. People who dread social interactions will dread a therapist at least as much as any other sort of social interaction. If you’ve never convinced her to go out and meet new people, you already know that convincing her to meet a therapist – who is, after all, most likely a new person – will be extremely difficult. You cannot expect that just making a logical case that it is medically necessary will result in her doing it. If she reacts well to having someone familiar along for support (not everyone does), you should at least consider trying that.

  147. MrFire says

    How many posts are we at, MrFire?

    Only the Great Sven DiMilo truly knows, and he’s not around right now. His peer-reviewed analysis and predictions can be found here and here.