Penn Jillete defends Anthony Cumia. We’re all missing the important detail that exonerates him — sure, he went off for hours in a racist tirade, but don’t you all realize that Cumia is licensed to carry a concealed handgun?
Penn Jillette says that people are
burying the ledein the alleged incident that led to SiriusXM’s decision to fire “Opie and Anthony” host Anthony Cumia. He also argued that he’s never seen any evidence that suggests Cumia is racist as many of his critics have alleged.
We are burying the lede of this story, which is that Anthony, who has a reputation for being a bit of a hot head, is carrying, comes up gets hit in the face and does not hurt the person back,Jillette said during his “Penn’s Sunday School” podcast this weekend.
That is incredible. If I am in the position where I cross somebody who is carrying a gun and who can defend themselves and hurt me, and their choice is to write angry stuff on Twitter instead of fighting me back — wonderful. Gandhi! That’s Gandhi! … That is Martin Luther King,he continued.
Seriously? He just compared a racist ranter to Gandhi and Martin Luther King because he didn’t shoot a black woman in the face?
Sure. This sounds exactly like something King or Gandhi would say.
Savage violent animal fucks prey on white people. Easy targets. This CUNT has no clue how lucky she was. She belted me 10 times. I had a gun
No,an ANIMAL BITCH used it’s instinctual violence on me. I restrained myself from putting it to sleep
It’s a jungle out in our cities after midnight. Violent savages own the streets. They all came 2 defend this pig. I had to yell like at dogs
Gosh. I’ve never shot anyone, and I’ve never even raged at minorities as animals. I guess that means I must be like Jesus!
By the way, the article strangely features a photo of Cumia’s concealed carry license…with a 2012 expiration date. I guess True Skeptics™ don’t give a damn about little details like that.
So, the reason he did not shot her was because his concealed carry handgun license may have been expired (he could have had an updated one?). Had he shot her, he would have been at least arrested for carrying a concealed handgun without a permit. Who knows with the whole, “it was self-defense” argument where ‘good white guy’ murders a ‘black, unarmed women’, if he would have been charged with murder. Thus, he only option for revenge against her was unleashing a torment of hot lead of twitter misogyny, racism, and violent threats. What restraint he showed after being confronted for taking harassing pictures?
Also, fuck you Penn!
Racists always think that they have a right to be racist, so they want applause and parades whenever they decide to be slightly less racist.
Well, Jillette is an Ayn Rand devotee (technical term: “Ayn Rand Asshole”), so it’s no big surprise. The right to be racist is essential to our liberty, or something like that.
loreo #2 – nicely put
also, when a fading celebrity says something edgy don’t assume they’re doing it for any reason other than attention, and don’t reward them with it.
Yeahhhhh…no. racist for sure. “Never seen any evidence that he’s racist”? I guess the KKK isn’t racist since I haven’t heard of them lynching anyone anymore. Burning crosses don’t hurt anyone.
The 2012 expiration date comment is pretty weak though. So what, licenses can be renewed. Why not a picture of a more recent one? Is there a recent picture of your driver’s license on the Internet? That he had a license until at least a couple years ago is enough for me to infer that he probably has one now too. Implying that his current license status is unknown, or that he is unlicensed just because there’s not a more recent picture, would cause me to doubt you if I didn’t already agree so strongly.
“slightly less racist”…not shooting someone is “slightly less racist”?
Wait…so Penn expects the average person packing a gun in public, who presumably is not Gandhi, to answer any physical provocation with a bullet? Punch or slap them, get shot? Every bar brawl or sidewalk scuffle will naturally escalate into a firefight?
And he’s against gun control? What, is this his scheme for preventing overpopulation?
Someone needs to do a Bullshit! Episode about Penn. but it might be a mini-season.
This is a variation on the “no true scotsman” fallacy. After all, TRUE racists build xtermination camps. As long as you’re not going to that extent, you are no true racist.
Racist AND misogynist,let’s not forget that. I guess I will eternally fail at being Ghandi on accounts of not having a gun.Since I don’t have the option to shoot some people anyway I can’t demonstrate proper restraint.
Penn Gillette is on the Philip Morris “Third Party Message Development Contact List”, along with Bill Kristol, Mona Charen, Malcolm Gladwell & Grover Norquist. He’s a useful propaganda asset for the Tobacco industry, and for other industries which want to escape regulation.
Good point, quantifying and ranking racist acts really isn’t helpful.
Let me try again:
Damn, what a self-important and entitled attitude; these two men ignore reality where racist acts are deeply harmful and apparently compare their own behavior to action movie heroes who kill three henchmen before breakfast every day.
An element of the oppressor attitude seems to be “I get to act like a child and everyone has to accommodate me.”
I’m feeling pretty awesome right now. I haven’t ever shot anyone. Of any creed, colour, sexual preference, or ethnic origin…
… I’ve never even pummeled anyone with a tire iron, either, come to think of it…
… and if memory serves, I’ve never used a nuclear weapon on anyone, nor do I regularly run around kicking the homeless nor setting fire to kittens.
… damn. I’m setting up my own fan club, right now. Who’s in?
(/… okay, so I’m also an inside trader and an arms dealer who mostly sells to third world dictators, and Donald Sterling now refuses to have me over for dinner because he finds the way I talk about blacks in private a bit excessive even for his tastes, but, again, I remind you: I’m totally down with the not shooting people thing… Sooo… Where’s my citizen of the year ribbon, anyway?)
Penn Jillete is a pompous, self-aggrandizing libertarian.
I’m kind of baffled that he brought up Gandhi considering that Penn Jilette is the one that taught me that Gandhi was pretty racist when he was younger. It’s in his Holier Than Thou episode of Bullshit! about Gandhi and Teresa.
Not to nitpick, but Gandhi was a racist, at least where blacks were concerned. He was, specifically, in favor of racial segregation. Now, presumably he wanted that segregation to be enforced by non-violent means (incidentally, how? everyone just agrees to be separate-but-equal?), but the fact remains he was a racialist with a view that blacks were fundamentally inferior to Caucasians, or at least “different” enough that they should be kept apart.
Of course, it makes Penn Jilette a giant hypocrite to invoke Gandhi in this context, given that he aired an episode that was highly critical of Gandhi.
Been trying three times now to formulate a coherent thought, can’t get it to work, this is just too stupid. So I’m just throwing in a few fragments.
People seem to be seriously analogy-impaired nowadays. How can you even think of people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King in that context, let alone find that comparable to anything of the issue at hand?
Plus that Cumia asshole, well fuck, what sort of person thinks of other people as animals (yeah in the end we’re all animals, but that’s hardly what he means)? I know I should not be surprised since in most comment threads involving a “representative” sample of contributors, sooner or later some asshole will come along with that attitude, but it is so far beyond me that it leaves me speechless.
Whatever rational reason one may have for the right to bear arms, the gravitating of all sorts of cold-hearted, racist, chauvinist etc. attitudes toward the issue should make one feel a serious guilt-by-association.
I’ve enjoyed being like Ghandi all my life because I’ve never murdered anyone.
How dare you call Penn a misogynist! As far as I know, he has never ever strangled a woman to death, despite having two hands at the end of his arms. That makes him a feminist! He’s like a Susan B. Anthony! Victoria Woodhull! JAAAAANE FOOOOONDAAAAA!
““We are burying the lede of this story, which is that Anthony, who has a reputation for being a bit of a hot head, is carrying, comes up gets hit in the face…”
Hmmm.
Interesting how this claim is accepted at face value by someone who rejects women’s claims of sexual harassment in the name of skepticism.http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/the-straw-woman-of-the-skeptical-movement/
Gee Penn; did you see this alleged assault? Is there video? How do you know Cumia isn’t making it up? Why didn’t he call the police? Was he leading her on? Was he wearing “provocative” clothes?
Self awareness and consistency are not strong points here…
loopyj ,
Why the stutter?
There is no facepalm epic enough for this. I wonder if it’s even possible to wake someone up when they have their head buried so deeply in their ass.
A Hermit:
+1
Penn’s a hypocrite. He thinks nothing of going on tirades against those he doesn’t like, but write a respectful criticism of something he’s done, and he goes off the deep end.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/do-clinical-trials-work-it-depends-on-what-you-mean-by-work/
Only the introduction to the post is relevant to what I mean, but the rest of the post, even though it doesn’t have anything to do with Penn Jillette, is worth reading, too, if you have the time. :-)
I don’t understand the mentality of people who see an incident like this and feel compelled to defend Cumia. They could just ignore it and not get involved. What investment does Jillette have with Cumia? (Besides his being an ass in general, of course).
Yazikus:
Giving Cumia an absurd drama defence makes sure that Jillette’s libertarian, asshole audience keeps on lovin’ him.
So Jillete feels that it’s justified to use deadly force in a non life-threatening altercation? It seems like road rage, domestic violence, etc. could be “justified” under such a ridiculous world view. Not to mention the fact that people who “have a reputation for being a hot head” are the people I’d LEAST like to have conceal carry permits. Jillete doesn’t mind though. Hot heads legally carrying deadly weapons just makes life more interesting, right?
Mr Jillete is rather pompous in manner always maintains an air of smug superiority in all things.
He is also a highly skilled magician, an illusionist of considerable skill.
He is expert in deception, misdirection and slight of hand. He understands how easy it is to fool people, to manipulate, to convince them of what is not and what did not happen. Of course he thinks he is superior because he is not fooled like every other ordinary person.
I have to ask if he is so good at deception and misdirection what is he concealing about himself. I have never seen or heard of him ever coming of stage . He is always in persona as it were. The whole thing feels just like an act, a court jester without the gifts of comedy, honesty nor humility. utterly shallow.
uncle frogy
yazikus #25:
Penn’s been on his show, probably more than once. So he’s met him, and presumably determined that he’s a “good guy,” which means he couldn’t have said or done anything racist or misogynist. Therefore, any public backlash against him must be misinformed and reactionary.
The ass-kinship certainly factors in, though.
It’s not surprising though. Jillete has a history of racism/sexism apologia. I wonder how he’d feel if it turned out that black woman also had a gun. She’s Gandhi, right? She restrained herself from killing someone, even though she was angry. Or should her anger be dismissed as an “angry black woman” stereotype? Ugh…
Penn the cherry picker:
To him the story is; Cumia getting fired cuz everyone’s calling him, “racist!”. Penn then hears Cumia say that he got attacked by that wicked #$%^woman, and even though I had a gun, and a license to carry it, I didn’t shoot her cuz I’m so tolerant of race and womenz. [end of Story] To which Penn attacks the public for attacking Cumia who was such a good person to let himself get beat up when he coulda just shot her to defend himself.
TL:DR
Penn hears two things, does not try to string them together into a coherent story. And gets on his high [stratospherically high] horse to yell at people for firing this ‘good liddle boy’. Where did Penn hear those two little facts? from the Cumia himself, cuz he would never fib; no never; totes ‘truth’ from his lips to Penn’s ear.
Penn is a great illusionist, what he shows us is not what he gots.
It’s sad when people unburdened by empathy choose to be awful instead of wonderful.
Inaji,
This coupled with (from moddy)
makes sense. It seems they share their audience.
No, no, no. He not saying “justified to use …” but the ‘opposite’; that one cannot be denigrated for not doing what was so strongly possible. That frozen peaches are so precious that one can only take action against someone for their action, not just the words they speak. We are to glorify Cumquat, for restraining himself from the temptation of using that weapon he had, and he just took out his rage by tweeting a few words into the aetherverse, not real world.
[I’m starting to think like Penn. off to get the tinfoil hat…]
So because I can beat the shit out of someone I should get a cookie because I don’t? Because I can punch someone in the face but haven’t I am Gandhi?*
I…I…I…I never knew I was that wonderful. I expect statues. Minimum.
Louis
*Needless to say that, for anyone who can beat the shit out of me, there exists a convenient double standard. Those people are monsters I tell you. MONSTERS!
[Penn here]No, not because you CAN but DON’T, you can be Gandhi when you get smacked FIRST and THEN don’t beat the crap out of whoever smacked you. Conventional restraint is just NORMAL, restraint after provocation = Gandhi. Just so ya know. /Penn
Actually, more interesting than “racist asshole fails to murder black woman” is, “racist asshole with admitted reputation for being a ‘hot head,’ but who has radio show, is issued a carry permit by NYC.”
Seriously, in New York state, and the city particularly, gun permits are like unicorn kisses. They’re almost impossible to get. Unless, that is, you have money, fame, and/or connections. Which suggests that Cumia has some combination of the above. Good character and reputation not an issue.
Twas Brillig,
I was definitely provoked. These people are existing on the same planet as me WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. They breathe my air and do stuff I have neither agreed to or asked for. Some of them, and this is really serious, are a BIT DIFFERENT TO ME.
Serious stuff.
Louis
He is skeptical of Cumia’s racism despite all the racist quotes that are available, but then takes Cumia’s story at face value. Interesting what they apply their all powerful skepticism to. Does this mean that Penn Jillete doesn’t think that any white person is racist unless they shoot a person of color?
Also, from the article:
Always out of context. I wish there was a rule that people can’t say that without offering the context that makes it all better. Some things can be twisted out of context. But in what context is “No,an ANIMAL BITCH used it’s instinctual violence on me. I restrained myself from putting it to sleep” not horribly racist??* Was he in a one man show called “Horribly Racist Asshole” and was just running lines on twitter?
*I chose that one because out of context you might think he was talking about a dog… but no, in context he was talking about a person.
“I didn’t murder someone with a lethal weapon after they struck me unarmed! WHERE IS MY MEDAL!!? WHERE IS MY LICENSE TO GO ON RACIST TIRADES AGAINST THE PERSON I DIDN’T KILL!!! I THOUGH THIS WAS AMERICA!!!!”
I have a theory, which is mine.
*ahem*
Anthony Cumia is ashamed that he didn’t have the guts to draw his gun and shoot her.
He was too chicken-shit and he’s worried that he’ll be too chicken-shit if something like this happens again.
Penn agrees with him.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
So Anthony Cumia claims to be assaulted on twitter, and all the skeptics believe him, just like that?
Look, I’m the most anti-assault person there is, and some of my best friends are people named Anthony, but some things just don’t add up. He’s got a picture of the woman, but at no point does she appear to hit anybody. He’s got his camera there, and she’s apparently hitting him, and no pix of the supposed ‘assault’ turn up?
Secondly, the guy carries a gun. Why would you do that if you’re not spoiling for some o’ that ultra-violence? Are we sure this supposed punching wasn’t consensual, and he’s got the buyer’s remorse because he didn’t win the fight?
Thirdly, what was he doing in New York at dark? I’m not victim-blaming, but come on. Thirty-two flavours and then some of Law & Order are set in New York for a reason.
Finally, there’s no mention of what he’s wearing. We don’t know that he’s not wearing a T-shirt inviting people to punch him. I mean, not that such a T-shirt would be a justification, but you don’t wear a eau de gazelle toilet water on safari, do you?
Just sayin’ that this story doesn’t add up, and I’m surprised to see skepticism’s greatest thinkers fall down on the job like this.
One thing has become clear in the last few years, a painfully large number of “skepticism’s greatest thinkers” are utterly unable to apply any sort of scepticism toward themselves, and others with biases similar to their own. Scepticism is a tool you use to make fun of other people, not something you apply to your own ideas.
As others have pointed out above, Penn is wildly wildly inconsistent when it comes to applying scepticism, if it was a woman claiming she had been assaulted, using this same evidence, he would tear it apart, but in this case it is just fine. I find it quite sad that he is unable to see this in himself, and I am even more sad that legions of his followers will blindly agree with him without being the slightest bit critical, while constantly slapping themselves on the back for being such good sceptics.
I find it easy to believe he got in a shouting match with this woman. However, I find his other claims hard to believe:
1- The initial picture was of a sidewalk bridge taken at night. The flash of the picture is clearly illuminating her, and she’s not on the edge of the frame. For him to claim that the picture was anything but a creep shot strains credibility. He may have a right to take it, but she has a right to yell at him and publicly shame him over it.
2- Times Square is loaded with cops to make the tourists feel safe. If someone, and then a larger group, was repeatedly beating anyone on a public street in the Times Square neighborhood, a crowd would have formed and gotten footage, and cops would have broken it up, even if no arrests were made.
3- This violent altercation happened between a famous person, well known in NYC, on a public street in a tourist-filled city, and no one got a video? No one?
4- Anthony, honey, if you’re going to make a living making fun of people using ignorant stereotypes, you don’t get to freak out when a black woman calls you a “white m-f–r”.
5- Did Anthony have any visible signs of having been in a fight the next day?
Casaubon: I’m a sceptic.
Belbo: No, you’re only incredulous, a doubter, and that’s different.
U. Eco, Foucault’s Pendulum
He refrained from shooting her, therefore he never actually sent the tweets he was fired over?
I have not murdered Penn Gillette.
I expect him to send me a check for $500,000 in gratitude for my generousity.
I have often had a hard time deciding how much of an ass someone has to be on specific issues for me to no longer want to hear any of what they say on any topic. I agree with much of what Dawkins has to say on a variety of topics but he’s an ass on many subjects where he’s in the privileged position. I enjoyed a lot of Mr. Diety’s videos, but that garbage defending people who ply sexual targets with alcohol… efff uuuuuu.
I do still follow Dawkins because he leads me to a lot of knowledge that enriches me. I do avoid his website because the business model of simply reposting a portion of what others write seems a bit like stealing to me (I google to find the original). If you have nothing to add, just link to their article. (Note: If I have missed something particularly egregious by Dawkins, let me know. Dear Muslima was soooo close.)
I can no longer watch anything by Mr. Diety without seeing his smarmy “see how easy that was”. Since his videos are entertainment, rather than education, I stopped watching.
I had followed Penn on Twitter a little while ago, knowing that I disagreed with him on many issues but willing to consider views other than my own. After reading this, never before has the choice to unfollow someone been so easy. His redeeming qualities are far too few to outweigh what an ass he is.
Anthony K:
Hey, I’m an Anthony (never gone by that though). I wanna be your friend (hope it means I get to jump ahead in the queue).
Wait, there are other kinds of libertarians?
Cumia’s making some pretty serious accusations. Has he considered the impact on the black woman? He’s casting aspersions on all black women by claiming that she was violent and hit him, when for all we know it was consensual and he wanted to be hit. He’s just embarrassed about it the next day and doesn’t want everyone to know he’s a little kinky. I bet he liked it and he needs to stop telling this story; he’s ruining their reputations and this could prevent them from furthering their professional careers.
/snark in case that wasn’t clear.
Fie! I’m sure he was wearing ordinary gentleman’s evening wear – something like an everyday white sheet with two standard eyeholes, for example.
Strictly speaking, minorities are animals— as are we all.
Well, except me. I come from a factory and I’m made of a special metal.
Hmm. Interesting question. I think the answer kind of has to be “no”, since one of the basic problems they have, which most faith heads all have (and yeah, belief in the unchained/unregulated ‘free’ market is a religious position, not founded on any kind of tested reality), is a total inability to grasp that opinion isn’t the same thing as fact, and that, yeah, some of their own friends might be real assholes, or, gasp! they might be too, on some subjects.
I mean, we are talking about a guy here who has pool parties with some of the weirdest dang people on the planet, including some dude called Extreme Elvis, who would have sent most people running away, rather than inviting him to perform, as well as other strange people, but… apparently… can’t handle the idea that a) people don’t deserve to be shot (how the hell, dear Penn does the idea that violence against another being the **worst thing** anyone, including a government, can do, mesh with the idea that this ass has a carry permit, and, if it wasn’t expired, would have shot someone?), b) that killing someone is **not** an equal, or in any way, sane reaction to merely being hit by them, or c) … just that the whole F-ing situation was, rightly, her “defense” of herself, while his racist friend was “escalating” the problem (which, you know, is kind of one of the arguments against idiots, especially racist ones, wandering around with conceal carry permits – its nearly always a bloody escalation of the situation, not a “defense”). Hell, most people how intend to rob ***do not fire the weapon they carry***, its a threat, not something to kill with, yet, the “solution” is always for some “defender” to start shooting, and escalate the threat into an open fire fight, which, of course, is ***so much better***. Fracking idiots…
Gillette is the guy behind the curtain. An entertaining illusionist with a cursory attachment to skepticism. But in the harsher light, the bloat of his ego has overwhelmed his rationality. I can only see the things he says or does now as solely in service to himself.
Like all opinionated people, Penn can be misinformed/dumb about the issue. Even if Cumia had/has a legal conceal carry permit, what people may not be aware of is that if you draw your weapon “you must be prepared to use it”. Even if he was physically attacked only if he thought she was trying to kill him or his physical body was in danger, would he have any grounds to draw his weapon. I have been looking into conceal carry and this seems to be a big factor. It is illegal to show a gun to another person “even if your trying to diffuse a hostile situation”, unless your an officer or representative of the law, so he couldn’t have drawn or shown his weapon in this manor “legally speaking”.
I am not saying that this was his motive for not drawing the gun, but it would explain why someone with a conceal carry wouldn’t draw the weapon, without equating them to Gandhi or any other person who exhibits extraordinary control.
grignon@54: I agree. I think at one time, Gillette was a decent comedian/stage magician/skeptic. The early episodes of “Bullshit!” were pretty good and actually made points of things that were more common conflicts with reality like religion and creationism. At some point, maybe the ratings were suffering? The show started doing more and more ‘controversial’ issues that were really more political than scientific, like global warming.
At some point, he either drank the Kool-Aid, or like some other right wing blowhards, knows what he’s spouting is (pardon the phrase) bullshit, but realizes there’s good money in it. (Think Limbauh and Coulter.) Could be a bit of both.
@A Masked Avenger #37:
I wonder if reputation might be the reason why he was allowed a permit, that he’s pissed off so many people with his vicious racist and sexist abuse over the years that he was able to persuade the authorities he was at real risk of being gunned down in the street.
Opinionated==douchy?
That’s not Gandhi. Gandhi gets nukes and he ain’t afraid to use them.
Brb, just one more turn.
I’m like Gandhi in that I have never publicly admitted to having sex with an Arcturan mega-donkey.
The standards keep going down. Use to be, you got your “not-a-racist” credentials by not using the N-word (in public). Now, apparently, you need to not be a stand-your-ground-type murderer.
@20 A Hermit,
Great comment. I keep wondering why people are taking Cumia at face value with his claim that this “savage” Black woman assaulted him. Why didn’t he call the police and report that he had been assaulted by her? Have any witnesses come forward and substantiated his claims? What is her side of the story?
I believe nothing that racists claims. He hates Black people and I have no doubt that he is either exaggerating or completely fabricating the entire story just so that he can play victim to a Black “savage”.
Penn can always hire Cumia since he feels that he was so wronged.
Gandhi didn’t care for the kaffirs. (Or niggers. Whichever you find more offensive.) He didn’t quite think they were subhuman, but he considered them a barbarous, inferior ‘race.’