The horror! The video they don’t want you to see!


Emily Letts recorded her abortion. You know what you expect to see: Anguish! Pain! Screaming! Bloody body parts flying around the room! Regret!

Oh, wait.

She’s comfortable with the choice, she smiles through the procedure, and it’s so quick — having watched my wife go through three childbirths, the contrast is striking. I suffered far more than Letts in having a cyst removed last week, but what I went through was trivial compared to what women experience in labor.

There is so much fuss over something that ought to be regarded as a fairly simple decision for most women.

Comments

  1. birgerjohansson says

    Check out “South Park: Woodland Critter Christmas” for smiling kid teaching fluffy cougar kittens how to perform abortions.
    A nd they have Santa going Arnold with a shotgun, too.

  2. Anders says

    Well, to be fair, most anti-choice people aren’t particularly pushing the idea that the procedure is painful for the woman, are they?. In fact they seem to be completely void of any form of sympathy or empathy for the actual humans involved in the process, and more concerned with the health of the lump of cells that’s being “murdered”.

  3. blf says

    Of course there were no “baby parts” flying about the room. They were carefully decanted into a flash for Stem Cell Gazpacho by The Stem Cell Gestapo !

  4. Ichthyic says

    Well, to be fair, most anti-choice people aren’t particularly pushing the idea that the procedure is painful for the woman, are they

    actually, yes, I have seen a great many forced birthers lie about how horribly painful the procedure is, and talk about non existent side effects as well.

    but the main tool they use is not the procedure itself, but telling people how guilty they SHOULD feel afterwards, much like Emily mentions in the video.

    Xians are NOTHING without the baton of false guilt to hit people over the head with.

    that’s another reason, perhaps the MAIN reason, videos like this are so important.

  5. birgerjohansson says

    BLF
    Of course there were no “baby parts” flying about the room

    They were sold to Eric Cartman (they officially “fell off a truck”).

  6. birgerjohansson says

    You know, for very early abortions we could just save the embryos in liquid nitrogen. Nothing dies. The precious souls are just put on hold.

    That would blow the minds of those trying to say the procedure is murder.
    If you want to mess with catholics, just say good catholics should save their used condoms in liquid nitrogen, and their sould will be safe.

  7. birgerjohansson says

    …and if the Pope thinks this is bad, you can just mail him your used condoms and ask him to do the cryogenic storage himself.

  8. birgerjohansson says

    “Sould” should be “soul”s. Maybe I was thinking of the Go’uld? they sure have a messy type of reproduction.

  9. birgerjohansson says

    Damn typos!

    “Anguish! Pain! Screaming!”
    Time for a fundie “reconstruction” of a typical abortion (includes hydraulick drills).
    (and buckets of blood)

  10. birgerjohansson says

    I am so tired I cannot spell right. Logging off. Have a nice Monday, everyone.

  11. Ichthyic says

    If you want to mess with catholics, just say good catholics should save their used condoms in liquid nitrogen

    silly! Catholics don’t use condoms, remember?

  12. tbtabby says

    Anti-abortion propaganda is a two-pronged attack: they depict abortions as painful, horrific, gory experiences to scare women out of getting them, and they depict it as a quick-and-easy process that women do without thinking to whip the anti-choicers into a frenzy.

  13. Infophile says

    @13: It seems to be a standard tactic by reality-deniers of all sorts. I call it the “Denial Trammel.” Like a trammel net, which has multiple types of mesh to catch multiple types of fish, they throw out multiple claims to catch people for different reasons, even if the claims are mutually-contradictory. Global warming deniers do this as well:

    Claim 1: Warming isn’t happening.
    Claim 2: Warming is caused by natural causes, not anything humans do.
    Claim 3: Warming is happening and it’s caused by humans, but it’s already too late; we can’t stop it now.
    Claim 4: Even if we did stop now, we can’t force other countries to stop, and they’ll ruin it for all of us.
    Claim 5: Warming’s not so bad anyway. It might even be good!

    Even though all of these are false (except perhaps 3 – we could at least slow it down, though), they only need to convince people of one each to get them on their side. They usually don’t use all these claims at the same time, but more spread out (either among different people saying each one, or the same person saying each claim at vastly different times), so no one will catch the contradictions. But they say it frequently enough, to make sure everyone has heard each claim, and they count on the rebuttals not being said as often, making it all the more likely someone will believe one of their claims and think it hasn’t been rebutted. In a way, it’s a long-game version of the Gish Gallup.

  14. shadowspade says

    What an excellent video. It shows it for what it is, a medical procedure. I get tired of people saying those who support the availability of this procedure as pro abortion. In a way I don’t think anyone is pro abortion, none of us are wearing jerseys and saying yay go abortion go! It’s rarely a happy woo woo event. I don’t think anyone is skipping and jumping into the clinic. What most women, and sometimes sadly girls, need is an arm around the shoulder and some kind words instead of people screaming that they are going to hell.

    I don’t like to think of myself as pro choice even. I’m pro women’s health. This is a procedure that absolutely needs to be available. It’s necessary and sometimes life saving necessary. But in the end it’s a procedure that is there as a part of a woman’s overall health care. Sometimes I feel weird as a male supporting it because it’s none of my damn business.

  15. Ichthyic says

    Anti-abortion propaganda is a two-pronged attack: they depict abortions as painful, horrific, gory experiences to scare women out of getting them, and they depict it as a quick-and-easy process that women do without thinking to whip the anti-choicers into a frenzy.

    good point. xians have indeed become masters of doublespeak.

    must come easy with the heavy amounts of compartmentalization they employ.

  16. Ichthyic says

    it’s rarely a happy woo woo event. I don’t think anyone is skipping and jumping into the clinic.

    to be honest, I know a few teens who have been quite happy to get this procedure. and rightly so when faced with the alternatives.

    but in the end, the attitude going in, or coming out, has nothing to do with whether the procedure should be readily available to those who want it.

    it’s like asking if I would be happy to be getting an appendectomy if I had appendicitis.

    who cares? it has no bearing on whether or not the procedure should be available to me!

    frankly, it wouldn’t affect my opinion on the availability of abortion procedures if EVERYONE was skipping with joy to their appointments, always.

  17. shadowspade says

    Well I did say rarely Ichthyic. In the end though I was just trying to get the same basic point across that you did. It’s just a medical procedure and that’s how we need to view it. That’s why I prefer the term pro women’s health – I think it conveys how it’s just a tiny part of an overall health system.

    Although after typing it, I’m starting to think what an abortion jersey would look like……

  18. says

    I had an abortion last November. My experience was much the same as hers — except this video rings a little melodramatic to me (I did not have nor need people holding my hand telling me how much they love me as I went in for the procedure). A good friend came with me and waited in the lobby. The procedure was a piece of cake. After, my friend took me to her place to recover, we smoked a fat bowl, and I took a nap. When the woozy-making drugs wore off, I woke up and ate dinner. I felt fine. I’ve had heavier periods (and my periods aren’t that heavy). I was 100% back to normal by the next day.

    My wisdom teeth removal about 4 years ago was far more bloody and dramatic (I wasn’t put under, and one of my teeth were pretty impacted; my surgeon was hilarious and held up the last little bit of teeth in the air like a prize: “I DID IT!” as I cracked up in the chair, spraying blood everywhere).

    And let me tell you what: If someone came up to me today and said: “You have to choose between another anal abscess, or an abortion. Procedure happens tomorrow. CHOOSE!”

    I’d choose the abortion. I had a recurring anal abscess (look it up! I dare you!) several years ago and it was STRAIGHT UP AWFUL. Ever have doctors in the ER drain an abscess in your bung hole without any sort of anesthesia? NOPE NEVER AGAIN. I’d rather go through like, 10 abortions.

    My kidney stone last year was also far more painful and traumatizing. And one time I sprained my foot really badly. That was also way worse than the abortion I had last year.

    Not long after the abortion, maybe a month, I went in for something else, something minor, and I was asked if I’d recently had any surgical procedures. I chose “none” on the form. It wasn’t until I got home that I remembered…oh yeah, I had an abortion.

    The only time I think about the abortion is when discussions like this come up! It was by far one of the easiest decisions I’ve ever made, and I made it with no hesitation. I knew I was going to have that abortion the very second the pregnancy test came up positive.

    I’m so lucky to live in the middle of the city (near downtown Phoenix). I was able to go to a very nice clinic (not planned parenthood; and in fact, it was like $10 cheaper than PP quoted me), in a clinic on the 2nd or third floor. There were no protesters. My surgeon and his staff were amaze-balls!

  19. says

    it’s rarely a happy woo woo event. I don’t think anyone is skipping and jumping into the clinic.

    I was too nervous to skip and jump on the way in, but on the way out I was sorta goofy from the woozy-making drugs and apparently I couldn’t stop giggling. I remember being REALLY FUCKING HAPPY that it was over with and I wasn’t going to be forced to give birth.

  20. Ichthyic says

    Although after typing it, I’m starting to think what an abortion jersey would look like……

    how about abortion pom-poms?

  21. Compuholic says

    I just hope she is going to be ok.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if she received death threats from pro-lifers (oh the irony…)

  22. says

    shadowspade

    In a way I don’t think anyone is pro abortion

    Actually, I am.
    I think that we need to make abortion far more available and less stigmatized so women see it as a good alternative as opposed to having kids whose lives they will fuck up and who will fuck up their lives.

  23. says

    I had a uterine polyp removed and it was clearly much worse than this. They gave me a lot more drugs for one thing. I’m guessing it’s because they have to use mini-scissors and hooks and a fiber optic light and lens, hence more trauma to the cervix. She didn’t specify whether she had that general “punched-in-the-gut” feeling for a few days after though.

    I’ve never really been unhappy before my medical procedures. I look at the evidence, talk to the doctors, and go for it. I know going into it that the evidence favors a net positive outcome.

  24. Freodin says

    *** little side rant ***
    I agree with most of the comments made here. For me the most annoying thing about this video is that I cannot watch it because our national “give us tons of money before you can listen to music” agency has problems with the score the vid uses.

    Fuck the abortion shamers and ranters… and fuck the GEMA!

  25. opposablethumbs says

    I’m totally pro-abortion, pro-appendectomy, pro-dental treatment, pro-radiotherapy, pro-any damn medical procedure whatsoever that somebody needs. If you need it, it should be available, end of.

    Forced-birthers pretending it’s bloody and awful and the end of the world is such a load of crap.

    Been there and done that twice, and I was as happy as a clam both times. Maybe not having had the contraception failure in the first place would have been less hassle, sure – I did have to miss half-a-day of things that I wanted to do – but given that the IUD did fail the decision was a) already taken years in advance and b) utterly painless. The procedure itself was painless and hassle-free too.

    And I know I’ve mentioned this before, but my two kids wouldn’t be alive today if I hadn’t had that nice easy and free-of-charge abortion access (if I’d been forced to have kids before I wanted any, there’s no way I’d have been trying for pregnancies all those years later when I did).

  26. Ichthyic says

    I’ve never really been unhappy before my medical procedures.

    i have, but that’s only because I was in mindwarping pain.

    you wouldn’t think a stupid little thing like a gallstone could convince an entire medical staff you were having a massive coronary, would ya?

  27. throwaway says

    I saw this a few days ago, thanks to a Facebook acquaintance. Here is what they had to say about it :
    (Trigger warning for typical anti-abortion slut-shaming)

    this woman is a legit psychopath. she says “I am strong.” actually, you’re weak. you’re a very weak and immature person. you created a baby. a human being. a life. a life that could’ve done great things. you made a person. and then you killed that person because you didn’t want to deal with the consequences of your actions. this woman is a sick person. she says “I knew it was right because it was right for me.” what about your child’s life? what about what’s right for them? what about what fair for them? she didn’t care because she’s a selfish, weak, and immature girl. she doesn’t deserve to be called a woman. this disgusts me on so many levels.

    “… you killed that person…” Fuck out of here with that shit. I badly want to tell her off. Like, in her face, tell her to fuck right off.

  28. HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr says

    I’ve never had an abortion (never been pregnant, so), but I have had a D&C before for a different reason. The pain was pretty minor. I’ll be having another in a month, along with a uterine ablation, and I have to say, I am super excited for it. Likely won’t be dancing and skipping going in, because the timing suggests I’ll have cramps that made me pass out again like they did a couple days ago, but I will probably be happily wiggling a little afterward.

    I’m 100% pro-abortion. I am 100% for abortion for anyone who needs one. (“needs” = does not wish to/cannot continue a current pregnancy)

  29. says

    shadowspade @ 15:

    It’s rarely a happy woo woo event. I don’t think anyone is skipping and jumping into the clinic. What most women, and sometimes sadly girls, need is an arm around the shoulder and some kind words

    Oh FFS. Have you ever read at I’m Not Sorry net? Do so. My abortion was quick and easy, and all I felt was absolute relief. I was quite happy, thank you. Don’t go around promoting the myth that it’s a terrible, difficult, weepy decision for all women.

    I didn’t need an arm around me, or “kind words”, nor did any of the other women in the waiting room, which was stuffed to capacity. And what’s with the sadly girls bullshit? It’s just ever so devastatingly sad that a young woman will have a procedure which will allow her to go on to have the life she wants, which can include children later on if she wants them? Fuck you for that. I was 17 when I had an abortion, and it saved me a life of fucking misery, and it most certainly prevented yet another child on this planet being subjected to awful abuse.

  30. cactuswren says

    throwaway @ 29: I’ve been down that road and I’ve never even had an abortion. In a Usenet newsgroup some years ago, I’d mentioned that I was both pro-choice and childfree. One of the resident pro-liars replied (this is a quote):

    “Really? No wonder you don’t see the love in {newborns’} eyes. It would be very painful for you if you had. How many of your children have you killed, if you don’t mind my asking? Do you know what sex they were? I hope you don’t think it rude of me to ask.”

    In the same newsgroup I mentioned one reason I was glad abortion existed: if my mother had not had an illegal abortion before my birth, I would almost certainly never have existed. Someone demanded to know how I could be so incredibly self-centered as to think my life was more important than that of my poor dead brother or sister.

  31. mikeyb says

    Abortion is such a Faux issue. All the talk of the Faux genocide we have been conducting since Roe v Wade. It’s a Faux issue to the extent that it isn’t even in the Bible. Imagine if men had to choose whether to have an abortion or not. You can bet that in a NY minute, the entire anti-abortion movement would virtually abolish overnight except for a few wackos. The anti-abortion movement is almost entirely a movement to dictate women’s private reproductive decisions, it has nothing to do with “protecting the unborn,” no matter how much these people squeal. When these kids are actually born, where is the concern for considerably beefing up public subsidies and care for these precious children – none, that would require substantial help from the evil guvment.

  32. says

    mikeyb, @34

    Actually there is one explicit discussion of abortion in the Bible, in Numbers 5 where a woman suspected of adultery is forced to drink an abortifacient drug. If she miscarries on the spot she’s guilty of adultery, if the fetus makes it, she’s innocent and the husband raises the baby as his own. It’s the closest thing to a “pro-abortion” argument I’ve ever seen anyone take seriously in modern times.

    It really sums up the whole Biblical attitude towards sex: women and children are things, Israelite men can have as many nice things as they want, things have no rights, things can’t fight back, it’s fine to take things from other ethnic groups but you need to respect the property rights of your fellow believers, you can throw out your things after they get dirty.

  33. Amphiox says

    It’s rarely a happy woo woo event. I don’t think anyone is skipping and jumping into the clinic. What most women, and sometimes sadly girls, need is an arm around the shoulder and some kind words

    One must be careful not to confuse the circumstances that lead up to the decision to seek an abortion with the abortion procedure itself.

  34. plainenglish says

    Thank-you Emily Letts. What you felt a need to share, matters very much to me. I will share this video with my daughter, tell her I love her and support her in whatever life brings us. I am happy to know you have supportive love around you now. And know this: your sharing heart sings loud and clear.

  35. neverjaunty says

    cactuswren @33: No doubt the people screaming you were ‘selfish’ are the same ones who say they oppose abortion because it was illegal when their mothers got pregnant and if it were legal, they wouldn’t be here today.

  36. says

    neverjaunty @ 40:

    the same ones who say they oppose abortion because it was illegal when their mothers got pregnant and if it were legal, they wouldn’t be here today.

    My mother wanted to abort, but didn’t because she was afraid of dying from a back alley abortion. If she had, “I” would have been spared years of intense abuse, and her life and several others would have been much better.

  37. Alverant says

    I understand the need to film a medical procedure, but I’d rather not watch it. It’s a no win situation with her expression. If she smiles the anti-choice crowd will say she’s a psycho. If she’s serious they’d say she regrets what she’s doing. Whatever happens they’ll twist it to their advantage.

  38. Ichthyic says

    It’s a no win situation with her expression. If she smiles the anti-choice crowd will say she’s a psycho. If she’s serious they’d say she regrets what she’s doing. Whatever happens they’ll twist it to their advantage.

    good thing the film wasn’t meant to influence forced-borthers then.

  39. Rey Fox says

    Well, of course it’s not going to make the hardcore anti-choicers change their tune. It’s for all those ignorant of what the procedure of abortion is. It’s an exposing of many of the anti-choicers’ lies.

    The anti-choicers will twist literally anything to their “advantage”. It’s what they do. They’re liars.

  40. Rey Fox says

    As long as something is truthful, I see no point in worrying about how it will make the other side react.

  41. Seize says

    Another “my abortion was great” story for the fire: I played World of Warcraft in the waiting room while waiting for my abortion. The one mistake I made was going for the abortion pill (“medical abortion”) instead of surgical abortion. By gosh that period was a beast and a half! I needed my mom to take care of me. She brought me tea and soup, gave me ibuprofen, and sat with me and petted my head. I was a teenager at the time and I remember very clearly thinking, “This is what a REAL mother is. I couldn’t do for anyone what my mom is doing for me now.”

    What DID change my life forever was encounter those abominable anti-choice sidewalk stalkers outside the clinic. A year after my abortion I became a clinic escort to help women and their companions access abortion services without harassment. I highly recommend this volunteer activity to all comers! Google “clinic defense” or “clinic escort” plus your area.

  42. anbheal says

    Yes, everything Gilliel said, and yes, pro-abortion, the same way you can be pro-antibiotics and pro-public health. And I’m reminded of the “Soft Left” (who drive a Prius and have some gay friends) and their reaction to Josie Cunningham — their own daughters should have the right if they got pregnant at Princeton, but a reality TV contestant who does it in furtherance of a modeling career is somehow suspect and flippant and undeserving of the privilege. Ya know, fuck you. Hell, if more women, and more married women, talked freely about it, there’d be fewer prom-dumpster-babies, and less fear of stigma from parents or friends. Let’s say Serena Williams freely announced that she needed a quick abortion before Wimbledon, or Jennifer Lawrence mentioned that the filming of the next Hunger Games installment was delayed a week so that she could get an abortion — how differently scared teenage girls might look at their options!! So sure, skipping and laughing, or at least no more kerfuffle than a colonoscopy or a root canal.

  43. barnestormer says

    Chiming in as another pro-abortion person. Abortion is a medical technology that saves lives by the thousands, and allows millions more people a modicum of control over their reproductive lives. Safe, readily available, voluntary abortion is a boon to humanity. Or will be, once humanity gets its shit together.

    I absolutely hate and am terrified of going to the dentist, but I’m not wringing my hands about how “no one is pro-dentistry!!” I can be personally uncomfortable with the procedures involved in keeping my teeth healthy, while still being really, really glad that I live in a world where they’re available.

    (I’m almost infinitely less squicked by abortion than by anything having to do with scraping / drilling into / otherwise manipulating my teeth. Actually, the numbing effect of 1000000 endlessly repeated bloody-fetus posters has probably made abortion the least squick-inducing of all medical procedures for me).

  44. says

    Actually, my own abortion was a sad story and I was heartbroken afterwards.
    This was because I really, really, really wanted to be pregnant. The suffering was mine and mine alone. No, my child didn’t die that day. The fetus was not a dead person who was mourned. I, on the other hand was a woman who had suffered a miscarriage. The subsequent abortion was just a quick and easy medical procedure.

  45. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    No anti-choice wingnuts yet? I’m honestly a bit suprised.

    Just gonna add my voice to the “hurrah for abortion” crowd. I’m a bloke, so I can’t really put myself in the place of a pregnant woman whether they want an abortion or not, but it seems obvious to me that they ought to have the option. I genuinely can’t wrap my head around the idea that others have any right to take that choice away from them. It’s beyond me.

  46. procrastinatorordinaire says

    Here in the UK, I believe the most commonly used method of abortion is medical, i.e. the woman is given two pills to take, which I imagine would make it even less invasive than the procedure shown in the video.

  47. David Marjanović says

    because our national “give us tons of money before you can listen to music” agency has problems with the score the vid uses

    No, because the agency might have problems with the score. Read it again: “[…] da es Musik enthalten könnte, über deren Verwendung wir uns mit der GEMA bisher nicht einigen konnten.”

    That said, I don’t understand why so many filmmakers* put background music to everything. What for? Who needs that? What does it add?

    * From people who put one video on YouTube all the way to Hollywood.

  48. specduckular says

    In 2014 how do women who don’t want to get pregnant, get pregnant?

  49. neverjaunty says

    @specduckular: Welcome to Earth! In your parallel (Earth-Gamma, I’m guessing) science has progressed to the point that women can block conception by the mere act of thought, and reverse it likewise. Here, alas, we have not reached that technological zenith, and we’re stuck with imperfect and often harmful birth control that is not widespread, is mainly available to women, and is prohibited and discouraged in use to the point that many people don’t even understand it exists.

    Could you bring back some of your superior technology next time you jump the warpgate?

  50. The Mellow Monkey says

    specduckular @ 53

    In 2014 how do women who don’t want to get pregnant, get pregnant?

    Because shit happens.

    Typical failure rate for IUD: 0.8%
    Typical failure rate for for LNG IUD: 0.2%
    Typical failure rate for implant: 0.05%
    Typical failure rate for injection: 6%
    Typical failure rate for combined oral contraceptives: 9%
    Typical failure rate for progestin only pill: 9%
    Typical failure rate for patch: 9%, but may be higher in women who weigh more than 198lbs.
    Typical failure rate for hormonal vaginal contraceptive ring: 9%
    Typical failure rate for diaphragm or cervical cap: 12%
    Typical failure rate for male condom: 18%
    Typical failure rate for female condom: 21%
    Typical failure rate for spermicides: 28%

    Add in extra mistakes beyond typical use, complications arising from illnesses, interference, sabotage, pressure not to use birth control, poor education, or–the most common problem–lack of easy access to birth control and you’re looking at a lot of unwanted pregnancies. Those odds add up over the years, across billions of people on the planet. Some people will never have an unwanted pregnancy because there really are some good options now for those who have access to them, but even a 0.001% chance of failure is going to add up when dealing in millions of people in an industrialized nation.

  51. cicely says

    Additional to The Mellow Monkey’s list (#56) is a biggie: Ignorance.
     
    There are still people—adults, who’ve successfully graduated from high school, and are in, or have graduated from college—who believe such Old Wives Tales as that if the woman remains absolutely still, she can’t get pregnant…or that, if they have sex up against a wall, or with the woman on top, the sperm can’t swim up-stream (’cause Gravity), hence she can’t get pregnant…or that douching immediately afterwards will prevent pregnancy (with some variability in the fluid recommended for the purpose)…or that All Will Be Well if he pulls out before climax…or (my personal favorite!) that a woman can’t get pregnant on her first time.
     
    And, yes, I’m talking about in 2014, and in an industrialized, allegedly-well-educated nation (USAia).
    -

  52. specduckular says

    Never Jaunty.

    Thankyou earth being. The warp gate only opens every 123 years. We did drop some pills off last time we were in your galaxy about 50 of your earth years ago. We left you the technology to make more, did you lose the instructions?

    The mellow monkey.

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.

  53. chigau (違う) says

    specduckular
    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.
    So … abstinence?

  54. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The mellow monkey.

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.

    How about reversibly sterilizing all males until both partners want an child? Oh, that’s right, the responsibility is upon the woman, not the man…

  55. The Mellow Monkey says

    specduckular @ 58

    …some pills…

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.

    Some pills, eh? Look once more at what I cited from the CDC. There is a 9% failure rate for The Pill. How this translates is that out of every 100 sexually active people on the pill* the odds are in favor of nine of them becoming pregnant over the course of a year of use. Nine out of a hundred, every year.

    There are around 62,000,000 people capable of getting pregnant in the USA right now. About half of the adult female population is married. So let’s say we’ve got 31,000,000 married, responsible people who can get pregnant. These married, responsible people want to plan their families and only have a manageable number of children, have them spaced out, only have them when they’re financially ready, and 20% of them or so will never have children at all. So let’s say that at some point in hir life, every single one of those 31,000,000 people will spend a year on the birth control pill. That would result in 2,790,000 unplanned pregnancies and that’s only if these married, responsible people were trying to prevent conception during one year out of their entire lives, while using the birth control method you suggested. And this is how in the 21st century many, many people can get pregnant when they did not choose to become pregnant.

    There’s no shame in having difficulties grasping math and applying it to real world situations. I hope that if you consider this post at length you’ll be able to understand the numbers. Otherwise, there’s plenty of shame in being a willfully ignorant jerk.

    *Assuming reproductive sex acts, of course.

  56. Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought says

    specduckular,

    And what do you care if someone’s reason for an abortion is “I got drunk at a party and forgot the condom” or “We were horny, we had no condoms, he didn’t pull out and we just hoped for the best”?

    Shit happens.

  57. cicely says

    speduckular, you can buy, or not buy, anything you like…nonetheless, the specific ignorances I listed are so, whether you choose to believe in their existence, or not. Each of them was taken from Real Life On A College Campus. I heard these all at first hand, either from the people who had been told them, and believed them, or whose partner had been told, and believed them.
     
    But I think it’s clear where your biases are, in the soft-and-shiny bubble wherein you reside.
    -

  58. says

    MM
    I think mistakes are calculated in the typical failure rate as opposed to the perfect use failure rate

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.”

    Tranlation:
    Sl*ts should not open their legs.
    If they do and get pregnant they are irresponsible harl*ts* and should suffer the consequences.
    What men?

    *Why people would want these women to raise children then is beyond me**
    **not that I consider them reesponsible

  59. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @speckduckular

    Oh goody, you’re here too. Yay.

    You at #59:

    Yeah… I’m just not buyin’ that.

    On what grounds?

  60. dianne says

    In 2014 how do women who don’t want to get pregnant, get pregnant?

    In addition to what has already been said, not every pregnancy that ends in abortion was unwanted at conception. A pregnancy might turn from wanted to unwanted (or at least acknowledged as impossible) when the ultrasound or amnio results become available.

    Also, in 2014 fewer women who don’t want to get pregnant are getting pregnant. Hence, the lower abortion rate, in states with and without increased restrictions. Most people credit the IUD, not the pill, with this change.

  61. ButchKitties says

    If I had to compare the discomfort for my abortion against the discomfort of my IUD insertion, the IUD insertion was easily the worst of the two procedures. No contest. It was probably worse since I’m nulliparous (and because the doctor’s office forgot the medicine to soften my cervix prior to the insertion, but they’d screwed up my appointment twice already so I went ahead with the insertion anyway) but that first night after I got my IUD was absolutely miserable. I was confined to bed with a heating bad because I was so worried I was going to expel the damn thing. Worst cramping I’ve ever experienced.

    There wouldn’t be much to film for my abortion. I took a pill at the clinic. Then 24 hours later I took two more pills.

    The worst moment during my abortion happened after I took the second set of pills. I got really nauseous because those are the pills you’re supposed to hold between your cheek and gums and let dissolve slowly to avoid getting an upset stomach, and mine dissolved almost immediately. So… 15 minutes of intense nausea, after which it pretty much stopped. And then I had a day of cramps that were no worse than my normal period cramps. I typically avoid analgesics because of my migraines and fear of rebound headaches, but OTC painkillers would have been more than sufficient for the cramps.

  62. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    In 2014 how do women who don’t want to get pregnant, get pregnant?

    Generally one of two ways:

    1) from sexual intercourse, which consenting adults have every right to have, in a world where birth control and access to it is less than infinity percent perfect, which I notice you aren’t doing a damn thing to improve, you smarmy, dishonest, misogynistic piece of shit.
    2) from rape, and fuck you with a rake the Rake the Rake tied to a rake and holding another rake* for the implicit suggestion that a woman who’s already been violated against her will should be violated again by being forced to bear a child with her rapist, you smarmy, dishonest, misogynistic piece of shit.

    *ONE IN EACH CLAW

  63. EvoMonkey says

    throwaway @ 29
    I knew this sentiment was coming from the anti-choice fundies:

    …because you didn’t want to deal with the consequences of your actions. This woman is a sick person.

    They are so selective in their moralistic thinking. I have never heard this argument used when someone has a lap band procedure or stomach stapling to surgically deal with the consequences of what the fundies would also surmise to be his/her actions.

  64. barnestormer says

    @59 specduckular

    Your question has already been answered pretty well above, but I’d like to add a book recommendation. Innumeracy by John Allen Paulos is a teriffic, easy to understand introduction to (among other things) probability and why events that “feel” extremely implausible can actually be quite common.

    You can buy a used copy for 89 cents right now on Amazon. It’s a great book to have in your library regardless of your political beliefs, and regardless of whether or not you are a troll.

  65. says

    speckducular:

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost

    Yeah…the sheer amount of men who refuse to take responsibility and get a vasectomy is overwhelming.

  66. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost

    Having an abortion IS taking personal responsibility, you smarmy, dishonest, misogynistic piece of shit.

  67. Amphiox says

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing

    Note to clueless fool who clearly has never taken ANY personal responsibility for anything HE* has done, least of all the thoughtless spewing of triggering words on a public forum:

    Getting an abortion IS taking personal responsibility. One must take time away from one’s scheduled activities to have the procedure, arrange the required transportation to the place of the procedure, accept the surgical risks involved with the procedure, deal with and recover from the post-procedural morbidity, among many, many other things.

    *generic

  68. nich says

    Amphiox@75:

    Getting an abortion IS taking personal responsibility.

    Ya beat me to it.

    speckduckular@59:

    Yeah…I’m just not buyin’ that

    You really, really should because the comment you were responding to is very plausible. People, especially in flyover country, are spectacularly fucking ignorant about birth control methods. A younger member of my family was prescribed birth control for reasons unrelated to preventing a pregnancy. When she revealed this to her bible-thumping jackass of a father, he immediately fed her a ton of bullshit about BC, particularly that it can cause a woman to “lose her eggs” and never be able to have a baby. When it came time to take her medication, she was close to tears that she might not be able to have kids. When I asked her mom how anybody could be so ignorant, she told me that said daughter only happened with said bible-thumping jackass because she had been fed similar bullshit at that age.

  69. dianne says

    We did drop some pills off last time we were in your galaxy about 50 of your earth years ago.

    Actual history of the OCP: Margaret Sanger and Katharine Dexter McCormick pitched the idea to some chemists and helped them obtain funding and/or provided funding for the experiments to make the pill work in humans. No benevolent aliens involved, just some women who decided that they’d like to see medical research that might be useful to them for a change.

  70. EvoMonkey says

    Applause, Aphiox @75:

    Getting an abortion IS taking personal responsibility

    speckduckular, your comments here are just another version of the moralistic thinking of the religious fundies that these women are not living with the consequences of their actions.

  71. opposablethumbs says

    Horde, I fucking love you (especially Amphiox and nich right this moment). Speckduckular, you are an innumerate arrogant piece of shit who wouldn’t know personal responsibility if it bit you.

    Abortion on demand together with free access to contraception makes for great personal responsibility. And of course, there’s always the option of giving every boy a reversible vasectomy before puberty … except that, you know, I’d kind of not like to make even that procedure mandatory. (not to mention that you’d still need access to abortions because even vasectomy is not 100% reliable)

  72. dianne says

    @Gileill: I didn’t know that, but given that it was done at the same time as the Tuskegee and radioactivity trials, I can’t say I’m surprised. We’ve got IRBs and extensive formalized consents now for a reason.

    And it **still** doesn’t manage to block all abuse…

  73. specduckular says

    @ Nerd of Redhead…
    How about sterilizing everyone? The responsibility, in the main does fall upon the woman, biology ‘n’ stuff. Is it really such a cross to bear in 2014…Seriously.

    @ The Mellow Monkey.
    You assume that the pill taken in isolation, is the sum of birth control, its not.

    @Beatrice, an amateur…
    I don’t.

    @Cicely
    I’m skeptical that in the age of the interwebs people don’t have access to information… especially on college campuses. FYI my bubble is hard and opaque, what’s yours like?
    @Giliell…
    Your characterization of your assessment of my characterization, is wrong. Being responsible does not diminish any persons right to a vibrant healthy sex life, it generally supports it.
    I don’t know why you seek to diminish the state of any person to that of a, “slut”, or “harlot”, it seems a little harsh.
    I didn’t understand the rest of your post.
    @Thumper….
    On the grounds of incredulity.
    @Dianne.
    OK.
    @Azkyroth…
    Not sure if troll… Or very stupid.
    @barnestormer
    … Meh, I’ll pass.
    @Inaji
    Don’t you mean the sheer amount of people who don’t get sterilized is overwhelming.
    Your post is a little sexist.
    @Amphiox
    I ignored your first paragraph… You seemed upset.
    2nd Paragraph.
    I agree, however the basis of the question is formed in the knowledge that there are methods by which, and conduct through which, pregnancy can be prevented in the first instance.
    @Nich
    I’ve agree that abortion is taking personal responsibility.
    2nd point. I’m not convinced.
    @Evomonkey
    I don’t think the question necessarily evokes a moral dimension, merely an examination of why in a world of options does a woman in a first world country fall pregnant when she doesn’t want to.

    OK, sorry if it’s a bit of a mess, I didn’t really expect much of a response. Still I think I owe it to those who commented to at least give some reply. TTFN.

  74. chigau (違う) says

    specduckular
    …an examination of why in a world of options does a woman in a first world country fall pregnant when she doesn’t want to…
    You appear to have read the other comments.
    How have you failed to understand the answer to this question?

  75. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Is it really such a cross to bear in 2014…Seriously.

    Yep, you either put up or shut the fuck up. Evidenceless loser talk from you

    Being responsible does not diminish any persons right to a vibrant healthy sex life, it generally supports it.

    Define what you mean by responsible. Vagueness does not make an argument. Precision in defining what you are talking about does.

    I’ve agree that abortion is taking personal responsibility.

    Then what the fuck is your problem? Either you agree and have nothing to say, or you really disagree and are concern trolling. Which is it? I bet the latter.

  76. specduckular says

    @chigau

    I don’t believe I have misunderstood the points proffered. I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing. This is a question of taking personal responsibility.
    .
    The, “answers” don’t seem to me to be, “answers”, they seem to be justifications.

  77. specduckular says

    @Nerd of…..

    Point 1. Your simple assertion seems to negate your argument for evidence.
    .
    Point 2. Responsible is a fairly well understood word. I don’t know that I could do the term more justice than a dictionary… so I suggest you look it up.
    .
    Point 3. I don’t have a problem. You have projected a meaning and a prejudice to a question that is simply not there and proceeded in ignorance.
    .
    I have no idea what a concern troll is.

  78. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    @Azkyroth…
    Not sure if troll… Or very stupid.

    Bored with anti-choice trolls who execute one of a handful of predictable patterns, one of them being mild-mannered-asking-questions-with-a-smug-edge-to-them. Feel free to convince me you’re not another one. You’re batting pretty l…

    Oh, that’s right, you don’t believe in probabilities.

  79. loopyj says

    I had a great abortion. Fentanyl is a lovely drug. In the procedure room was a doctor or two and a couple of nurses (all women), and my then-boyfriend.

  80. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing. This is a question of taking personal responsibility.

    This is flatly contrafactual.

    Even with PERFECT use, the failure rate for the contraceptive pill, for example, is around 0.1% to 1% depending on the source. This means that a woman who uses the contraceptive pill absolutely correctly has on average between a 1 in 100 chance to a 1 in 1 thousand chance of getting pregnant after one year of being sexually active, while making all their appointments and taking all their pills.

    We can write this as “1/100″ and “1/1000″. We can also write them as 0.01 and 0.001, respectively.

    Take a sample of 1000 women using the pill PERFECTLY. You can use a device called a “calculator” to do something called “multiplying.”

    After a year, between 1 and 10 of them will get pregnant. You can show this using a calculator: 0.01*1000 = 10, and 0.001*1000 = 1. That is between one and ten women who are “taking responsibility” per your insinuations and yet still need an abortion.

    Now, try multiplying 30,000,000 by 0.001. What do you get? And more to the point, what part of this is not fucking obvious?

  81. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Actually, troll, back the fuck up. Explain, in one to three sentences, clearly, what you mean when you say “taking personal responsibility.” And understand you are committed to either abiding by that definition or explicitly retracting it for the rest of the argument.

  82. specduckular says

    @azkyroth
    I’m not sure I could convince you of anything.
    .
    You seem to be one of those who shoots first and then forgets the question.

  83. neverjaunty says

    specduckular @58: Oh dear! It appears that your universal translating device got somewhat damaged during your last warp. Those Pills were exactly the imperfect birth control I was referring to, and as you remember from the instructions (which we did in fact hang onto), they are not entirely safe, to say the least, they fail, they are not freely available, and they should not be used by an awful lot of fertile women such as those over 35.

    Perhaps your confusion is that here on this Earth parallel, we only have human women, and not feminine analog thought-forms who can instantly control all fertility through the mere focus of will? That would certainly explain your ignorance of human reproduction.

  84. specduckular says

    @azkyroth

    Actually how about I choose to ignore you as you seem to be a bore and a tyrant.

  85. neverjaunty says

    @Azkyroth, remember that forced-birth supporters aren’t reasoning from facts to a conclusion; they’re starting with the conclusion – women who get pregnant and don’t want to be are irresponsible sluts who should therefore be denied abortion as punishment for their carelessness – and then trimming the facts to fit. Hence whoppers like the claim that women in 2014 can’t get pregnant if they really don’t want to. Otherwise, inconvenient facts might lead to a different conclusion, and we can’t have that.

  86. specduckular says

    @neverjaunty

    You formed a tongue in cheek comment… I merely replied in kind.
    .
    Live long and proper, Obi Wan.

  87. says

    Inaji:

    Yeah…the sheer amount of men who refuse to take responsibility and get a vasectomy is overwhelming.

    Agreed. Some people seem to think the responsibility for avoiding pregnancy lies solely (or largely) with the woman…conveniently forgetting the man’s responsibility.

  88. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I’m not sure I could convince you of anything.
    .
    You seem to be one of those who shoots first and then forgets the question.

    What is your definition of “personal responsibility” and what is 0.001 times 30 million?

    @azkyroth

    Actually how about I choose to ignore you as you seem to be a bore and a tyrant.

    No.

  89. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    @Azkyroth, remember that forced-birth supporters aren’t reasoning from facts to a conclusion; they’re starting with the conclusion – women who get pregnant and don’t want to be are irresponsible sluts who should therefore be denied abortion as punishment for their carelessness – and then trimming the facts to fit. Hence whoppers like the claim that women in 2014 can’t get pregnant if they really don’t want to. Otherwise, inconvenient facts might lead to a different conclusion, and we can’t have that.

    I do remember. Hence my responses upthread.

  90. Ichthyic says

    Actually how about I choose to ignore you as you seem to be a bore and a tyrant.

    how does one become a boring tyrant?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    I’m not sure I could convince you of anything.

    pretty sure that will apply to anyone on this board, or frankly, anywhere. You see, it has to do with the fact that you have no arguments.

    you actually have to have an argument, then back it up, before anyone should even bother listening to you, don’t you think?

    oh wait, right. you don’t think, thus, the problem.

    oh well, do us a good flounce at least.

  91. Ichthyic says

    This is a question of taking personal responsibility.

    Indeed it is, which is why women should always have the choice to end their pregnancies as they wish, since, as you say, it is a matter of personal responsibility.

    what you REALLY are saying though, is that YOU want to take personal responsibility for everyone else.

    you want to make that choice for them, right?

    it’s the only reason you’re here to slut shame everyone but yourself, though I doubt you have the self awareness to realize it.

  92. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    perhaps specduckular thinks Arguments From Incredulity count…

    “Argument from incredulity” is a little bit too dignified. This is “I know you are but what am I?!” Unironically, no less.

  93. Ichthyic says

    We did drop some pills off last time we were in your galaxy about 50 of your earth years ago. We left you the technology to make more, did you lose the instructions?

    ever consider taking a birth control pill yourself?

    no?

    why not?

  94. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    ever consider taking a birth control pill yourself?

    no?

    why not?

    He has his personality already?

  95. Amphiox says

    You formed a tongue in cheek comment… I merely replied in kind.

    No you didn’t. You may have tried to, but you failed, and bit your tongue.

  96. Amphiox says

    I don’t believe I have misunderstood the points proffered. I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing. This is a question of taking personal responsibility.

    Since you continue to dishonestly ignore the point, it bears repeating.

    GETTING AN ABORTION IS TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

    Now, if you are honest and consistent, you should be arguing that anyone who stubs their toe should not be allowed to see a doctor to have it treated. Since, after all, this is 2014, and steel-toed boots are a thing in 2014.

    Similarly, you must also support the position that anyone who gets lost in an unfamiliar city should not be allowed to speak to a police officer, or any other public servant, to get directions. Because this is 2014, cell phones are ubiquitous, and Google Maps is a thing.

    It is, after all, a question of taking PERSONAL responsibility.

  97. Amphiox says

    And if your computer happens to get infected with a virus, specduckular, you will not be allowed to take it to an expert to have it removed. Nor are you allowed to search the internet for instructions or download any virus removal programs. You must remove it yourself, with source code you write and develop and compile yourself, or buy a new machine or hard drive.

    Because this is 2014, and with anti-virus programs being a thing in 2014, the only way anyone can go from Point A, not having an infected computer, to Point B, having an infected computer, is to not pay attention to what they are doing. So this is a question of taking personal responsibility.

    And if you run out of gas on the highway, you will not be allowed to call 911 for help, or any other service for towing your vehicle or providing you with transport. Nor can you ask any other person nearby or elsewhere, to come and pick you up or help you in any way. You must walk, on your own personal foot power, to the nearest gas station to buy gas to bring back to your vehicle.

    Because this is 2014, and gas tank indicators have been a thing for decades now, and the only way to go from Point A, gas in tank, to Point B, gas tank empty on the side of the highway, is to not pay attention to what you are doing. And this is, after all, about taking PERSONAL responsibility.

  98. says

    speckduckular

    I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing.

    Let me assure you, the problem here lies entirely with you.
    Because everybody else here is very aware and educated about the risks and failure rates of various forms of birth control.
    Because everybody else here is actually aware that such a thing as rape exists, so fuck you very much for saying that rape victims who got pregnant were not paying attention and not taking personal responsibility.

  99. specduckular says

    @Ichtyic
    1. Ask Azkyroth.

    2. I don’t think I am making an argument. I think I’m making an observstion and forming a question.

    @ Amphiox

    As I’ve stated twice now, I agree that abortion is taking personal responsibility. My observation surrounds the bit leading up to the abortion. How is a question about falling pregnant a comment on abortion.

    You then dibble on at length about fatuous nonsense, and in the last sentence you make my point for me. Thanks for that.

  100. specduckular says

    @Giliell

    I think you may have missed your true calling, you should be a movie theatre… cos you sure do like to project.
    .
    Thanks for adding to the conversation with your sledgehammer.
    .

    I’m having a little laugh at your expense. Sorry ’bout that.

  101. says

    specduckular:

    I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing. This is a question of taking personal responsibility.

    As Giliell pointed out, women can get pregnant from rape:

    In 2012, 346,830 women were raped.9 According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%. By applying the pregnancy rate to 346,830 female survivors, RAINN estimates that there were 17,342 pregnancies as a result of rape in 2012″

    Since you don’t understand how women can get pregnant in 2014 without paying attention (or in your words “being responsible”, which of course is only the job of the woman during sex, neeeeeeeever the job of the man), you’ve just treated 17,000+ women as if they don’t exist. Congratufuckinglations…you’re an asshole.

    And, as Azkyroth pointed out, there is a failure rate of contraception. Yes, that rate can be quite low, depending on the type of birth control used, but it still exists:

    Intrauterine Contraception
    Copper T intrauterine device (IUD) —This IUD is a small device that is shaped in the form of a “T.” Your doctor places it inside the uterus to prevent pregnancy. It can stay in your uterus for up to 10 years. Typical use failure rate: 0.8%.
    Levonorgestrel intrauterine system (LNG IUD)—The LNG IUD is a small T-shaped device like the Copper T IUD. It is placed inside the uterus by a doctor. It releases a small amount of progestin each day to keep you from getting pregnant. The LNG IUD stays in your uterus for up to 5 years. Typical use failure rate: 0.2%.

     

    Hormonal Implants
    Implant—The implant is a single, thin rod that is inserted under the skin of a women’s upper arm. The rod contains a progestin that is released into the body over 3 years. Typical use failure rate: 0.05%.

    Injection or “shot”—Women get shots of the hormone progestin in the buttocks or arm every three months from their doctor. Typical use failure rate: 6%.

    Combined oral contraceptives—Also called “the pill,” combined oral contraceptives contain the hormones estrogen and progestin. It is prescribed by a doctor. A pill is taken at the same time each day. If you are older than 35 years and smoke, have a history of blood clots or breast cancer, your doctor may advise you not to take the pill. Typical use failure rate: 9%.

    Progestin only pill—Unlike the combined pill, the progestin-only pill (sometimes called the mini-pill) only has one hormone, progestin, instead of both estrogen and progestin. It is prescribed by a doctor. It is taken at the same time each day. It may be a good option for women who can’t take estrogen. Typical use failure rate: 9%.

    Patch—This skin patch is worn on the lower abdomen, buttocks, or upper body (but not on the breasts). This method is prescribed by a doctor. It releases hormones progestin and estrogen into the bloodstream. You put on a new patch once a week for three weeks. During the fourth week, you do not wear a patch, so you can have a menstrual period. Typical use failure rate: 9%, but may be higher in women who weigh more than 198 pounds.

    Hormonal vaginal contraceptive ring—The ring releases the hormones progestin and estrogen. You place the ring inside your vagina. You wear the ring for three weeks, take it out for the week you have your period, and then put in a new ring. Typical use failure rate: 9%.

    Emergency contraception—Emergency contraception is NOT a regular method of birth control. Emergency contraception can be used after no birth control was used during sex, or if the birth control method failed, such as if a condom broke.

    Women can have the Copper T IUD inserted within five days of unprotected sex.
    Women can take emergency contraceptive pills up to 5 days after unprotected sex, but the sooner the pills are taken, the better they will work. There are three different types of emergency contraceptive pills available in the United States. Some emergency contraceptive pills are available over the counter.

     

    Barrier Methods
    Diaphragm or cervical cap—Each of these barrier methods are placed inside the vagina to cover the cervix to block sperm. The diaphragm is shaped like a shallow cup. The cervical cap is a thimble-shaped cup. Before sexual intercourse, you insert them with spermicide to block or kill sperm. Visit your doctor for a proper fitting because diaphragms and cervical caps come in different sizes. Typical use failure rate: 12%.

    Male condom—Worn by the man, a male condom keeps sperm from getting into a woman’s body. Latex condoms, the most common type, help prevent pregnancy, and HIV and other STDs, as do the newer synthetic condoms. “Natural” or “lambskin” condoms also help prevent pregnancy, but may not provide protection against STDs, including HIV. Typical use failure rate: 18%.

    Female condom—Worn by the woman, the female condom helps keeps sperm from getting into her body. It is packaged with a lubricant and is available at drug stores. It can be inserted up to eight hours before sexual intercourse. Typical use failure rate: 21%, and also may help prevent STDs.

    Spermicides—These products work by killing sperm and come in several forms—foam, gel, cream, film, suppository, or tablet. They are placed in the vagina no more than one hour before intercourse. You leave them in place at least six to eight hours after intercourse. You can use a spermicide in addition to a male condom, diaphragm, or cervical cap. They can be purchased at drug stores. Typical use failure rate: 28%.

     

    Fertility Awareness-Based Methods
    Natural family planning or fertility awareness—Understanding your monthly fertility pattern can help you plan to get pregnant or avoid getting pregnant. Your fertility pattern is the number of days in the month when you are fertile (able to get pregnant), days when you are infertile, and days when fertility is unlikely, but possible. If you have a regular menstrual cycle, you have about nine or more fertile days each month. If you do not want to get pregnant, you do not have sex on the days you are fertile, or you use a barrier method of birth control on those days. Failure rates vary across these methods. Overall, typical use failure rate: 24%.

    Permanent Methods of Birth Control

    Contraceptive sterilization is a permanent, safe, and highly effective approach for birth control. These methods are meant for people who are sure that they do not desire a pregnancy in the future.

    The following methods have a typical use failure rate of less than 1%.
    Female Sterilization—Tubal ligation or “tying tubes”— A woman can have her fallopian tubes tied (or closed) so that sperm and eggs cannot meet for fertilization. The procedure can be done in a hospital or in an outpatient surgical center. You can go home the same day of the surgery and resume your normal activities within a few days. This method is effective immediately.

    Transcervical Sterilization— A thin tube is used to thread a tiny device into each fallopian tube. It irritates the fallopian tubes and causes scar tissue to grow and permanently plug the tubes. It can take about three months for the scar tissue to grow, so use another form of birth control during this time. Return to your doctor for a test to see if scar tissue has fully blocked your fallopian tubes.

    Male Sterilization–Vasectomy—This operation is done to keep a man’s sperm from going to his penis, so his ejaculate never has any sperm in it that can fertilize an egg. The procedure is done at an outpatient surgical center. The man can go home the same day. Recovery time is less than one week. After the operation, a man visits his doctor for tests to count his sperm and to make sure the sperm count has dropped to zero; this takes about 12 weeks. Another form of birth control should be used until the man’s sperm count has dropped to zero.

    Contrary to your arguments from “I don’t know how this could happen bc I’m too fucking lazy to verify whether or not my assertion–

    I think I’m asserting, that the only way I can see to get from point A, not pregnant, to point B, pregnant, in 2014, is to not pay attention to what you are doing.

    is true or not”, women can AND DO become pregnant while knowing what they are doing. Rape is a thing, unfortunately, and can result in pregnancy. I hope I don’t need to explain how it’s not the fault of the woman in that horrible situation (and I hope you don’t assert she needs to “pay attention”). As for contraception, as mentioned, there is a failure rate that varies depending on the type of birth control utilized.

    In the future, do yourself a favor and make sure the assertions you’re making about reality match the facts, ok Cap’n Douchebag?

  102. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Your simple assertion seems to negate your argument for evidence.

    Those who can’t/won’t bother to look up their presuppositions and fact check them don’t deserve to be listened to. Those who can’t/won’t dcfine their terms are playing word games and should be dismissed.
    See how it works? Until you can be wrong, you can never be right.

  103. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I don’t think I am making an argument. I think I’m making an observstion and forming a question.

    Nope, the evidenceless observation not based on reality is being dismissed. Don’t like it? Try actually forming a cogent argument, define your terms, and check your reality.

  104. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @speckduckular

    @Thumper….
    On the grounds of incredulity.

    Incredulity based on what, you fucking jackass. When someone says “What are you basing that opinion on?”, incredulity is not an answer.

  105. specduckular says

    @Thumper.

    There, there don’t cry.

    I’m incredulous at how credulous you are.

    All clear now. Good.

  106. specduckular says

    @Tony!

    Do you know what the term prolix means.
    .
    It’s the reason my interest in reading through your post diminished with every passing word, until its inevitable demise… around word four.
    .
    I think I would rather listen to Vogon poetry.

  107. says

    specduckular:
    So you’re not here to have an actual discussion. You’ve come to your conclusion based on no evidence whatsoever and you’ve no interest in changing your mind based on actual evidence.
    You’re trolling.

    Begone asshole.

  108. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Christ, this guy’s a moron. I am having trouble believing that a grown adult can be this stupid.

    Speckduckular, let’s try this once more:

    On what grounds do you reject the notion that simple ignorance of sex ed is:
    a) widespread in the USA in 2014, and
    b) that such ignorance contributes to a higher rate of pregnancy?

    Please note that the phrase “on what grounds” means, what evidence do you have that such a notion is in fact untrue? What have you read, or heard, or watched, that leads you to believe that the above proposal is in fact untrue? Let’s see if you can answer like a grown up and give a cogent, coherent, directly relevant answer in which your hitherto unevidenced and logically fallacious claims are backed up with facts and sound reasoning.

  109. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Do you know what the term prolix means.
    .
    It’s the reason my interest in reading through your post diminished with every passing word, until its inevitable demise… around word four.

    Prolix
    adjective
    (of speech or writing) using or containing too many words; tediously lengthy.

    [Emphasis mine]

    I rather think that says all that need be said about speckduckular.

    @Tony!

    To be fair, it was rather impressive how he managed to combine the Argument from Incredulity and Circular Reasoning all in one go.

    I’m not buyin’ that…

    “Why not?

    Because I’m incredulous!

    That’s some weapons-grade stupid, right there; but he then goes on to say that he cba to read your (very short) post, because Waaah! There’s too many words!q> *sob*. The guy’s an idiot.

  110. specduckular says

    @Nerdof…

    Thank you for your input. However your cogent dismissal of specious arguments means that I have no alternative other than to follow suit and consign your comment to the rubbish bin of bunkum.

    Thanks anyway.

  111. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I suspect speckduckular is just another MRA troll. Lights on, nobody home.

  112. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    However your cogent dismissal of specious arguments means that I have no alternative other than to follow suit and consign your comment to the rubbish bin of bunkum.

    Why don’t you look in the mirror before you post nothing. For example, I still can’t make out what is irresponsible by your claims. That’s because what people are being irresponsible about is unexplained. Why don’t you elucidate and inform us of why you think certain behavior is irresponsible. But that requires real thinking, which you are incapable of doing.

  113. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    …consign your comment to the rubbish bin of bunkum.

    I’d ask on what grounds, but we all know how that’ll go…

  114. says

    specduckular:
    Are you willing to alter your beliefs based on the evidence? I’ve presented the evidence that shows your assertion is false. Are you going to be intellectually honest and revise your opinion? Or is trolling your sole purpose here?

  115. specduckular says

    @Tony!

    I’m pretty sure I’m not the troll here.

    If I were I think I would be in good company.

  116. says

    specduckular:

    I’m pretty sure I’m not the troll here.

    If I were I think I would be in good company.

    If you’re not here to troll, then stop evading and answer the question. Are you willing to alter your beliefs based on the evidence?

  117. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Since we’re doing contraceptive methods on this thread, there’s a new one under development in India. It’s called RISUG (reversible inhibition of sperm under guidance), and involves injecting a non-toxic polymer into the vas deferens which coats the insides, allowing sperm to pass (So no excess pressure and granulomas as can happen with a normal vasectomy), but incapacitating them as they pass. The procedure is easily reversible by injecting a non-toxic solvent which dissolves the polymer, it’s relatively cheap, and “in study after study, RISUG has been proven to work 100 percent of the time.”

    I, for one, am excited by this. If (when) they perfect it, I will certainly be getting one. For a start, it means my GF can take her implant out, which is good since the new one has the unfortunate side effect of making her cry all the time over nothing. She is beginning to get very frustrated with this side effect, and it’s not exactly fun for me either.

  118. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Ignorant troll does not understand the definition of the word “troll”. How suprising.

  119. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I’m pretty sure I’m not the troll here.

    Sorry, you are trolling. Classic example. And will do so until you actually respond to requests for evidence the right way. With a link to relevant data.

  120. specduckular says

    @Nerdof…

    …Cos I don’t have a mirror? ??

    I don’t think I am making an argument. You don’t seem to grasp this simple notion.

    I’m asking a question as an illustration of an observation, that I think I’ve made. I’ve stated this twice now.

    You’re all twisting like pretsels because you are imbuing said question with characteristics it doesn’t contain.

  121. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Ignorant troll also does not understand the definition of “argument”.

  122. says

    Specduckular: you’re a very familiar sort of troll. You throw out some vaguely sneering comment, and then make 20 more comments that avoid addressing the issue specifically, preferring to prod contemptuously at the other commenters. Either sincerely engage or get the fuck out of here.

  123. says

    I’ll also note that specduckular has only commented in three threads: they’re apparently only interested in expressing contempt of feminist issues. That’s also telling.

  124. Howard Bannister says

    I’m asking a question as an illustration of an observation, that I think I’ve made. I’ve stated this twice now.

    You’re all twisting like pretsels because you are imbuing said question with characteristics it doesn’t contain.

    I know he’s gone now, but I just have to say, the second half of that contains some amazing projection. Weapons-grade.

    Because, yes, he did start by asking a question as an illustration of an observation. That’s true.

    Then people addressed the meat of that. They dug into the presuppositions, the buried misogyny, the untrue facts.

    The pretzel-twisting? That’s him pretending that after all those facts he was faced with his question still makes any sense at all.

    Weapons-grade projection.

  125. specduckular says

    Well my my my.

    How the vitriol amps up when the understsnding of your missaprehension finally dawns.

    Dont worry no need to appologise.

    I forgive you.

    TTFN.

  126. says

    And there goes specduckular, doing exactly what I told them they’ve been doing. It’s uncanny how predictable the trolls are.

  127. Howard Bannister says

    How the vitriol amps up when the understsnding of your missaprehension finally dawns.

    The misapprehension that he was ever here to participate in any meaningful way instead of just throwing stones, of course.

  128. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    How the vitriol amps up when the understsnding of your missaprehension finally dawns.

    BWAhahahaha!

    Our misapprehension? And he thinks this is vitriol?

    He’s in for a shock. I think this could be fun.

    I note he hasn’t replied to me since #118. Perhaps, having pinned him down and explained the question I want answered and the standards of evidence required as if I were explaining them to a pre-schooler, he’s afraid he might actually have to give a straight answer?

  129. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @chigau

    As detailed in #147, I am experiencing much the same thing. He appears to be perfectly happy to give sneering, irrelevant platitudes, childish restatements of the argument (as an answer), and abject denials of trolldom, but the second he realises that he’s not getting a rise and the only option left to him is to give a straight answer he pretends you don’t exist.

  130. specduckular says

    @Chigau

    Restate your query, I must have missed it.

    I’m sure it’s a doozy.

  131. specduckular says

    @Pzmyers

    You change from referencing the singular to the plural in your last missive, you realise this makes no sense right?

    Perhaps you would care to rephrase.

  132. specduckular says

    @Chigau

    I’m not on my computer, I’m on a smartphone, so the ol’ scrolling and searching is a little problematic.

    If you are on a computer then you have the advantage of me; if so perhaps you might indulge a poor feckless technology orphan.

  133. FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!) says

    What is that whistling noise? Could it be specsuckular’s vacuous trolling sucking up the atmosphere? No, that’s not it…..

  134. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What is your definition of “personal responsibility” and what is 0.001 times 30 million?

  135. specduckular says

    @Chigau

    Yeah … good point.

    However the sentence moves from the singular to the plural in reference to me. It may not have been meant this way, but that is how it reads.

    In any event my invitation still stands.

  136. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Re: singular to plural–perhaps we have realized that it would be impossible to fit that much stupid into a single person?

    Specduckdynasty, have you ever known a real woman? Just curious.

  137. says

    Dear Spec,

    I have a question. Actually, I have two questions.

    1. How do you define “personal responsibility”? (Which is to say, please don’t offer links to dictionaries. We’re all familiar with the various dictionary definitions. The question is getting at what “personal responsibility” means to YOU.)

    2. What is the product of 30,000,000 and 0.001?

  138. specduckular says

    @aray…

    Pretty sure I’m married to one.

    Let me just check.

    “Babe! This guy(?) On the interwebz wants to know if you’re a real woman”?

    She says yes. *actually she said somethin’ else, but I cleaned it up a bit.*

  139. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Specduckdynasty,

    Please give your wife my deepest condolences. It must be rough for her living in your mother’s basement like that.

  140. specduckular says

    @aray

    …And there we go disparaging remarks directed at my wife.

    You people fancy yourselves as pro woman, but you are in fact at your core bigots.

    Thanks for showing the world your true face.

    I’m happy to live in a place where we are all equal, and bigoted nutballs like you are half a world away.

  141. says

    I am not a fan of the “lives in mother’s basement” variety of insults. Clearly, looking at human history, it’s obvious that some of the worst woman-haters were successful men who had wives and children, blah blah blah.

    Now, spec, how about answering my questions? Since your poor scrolling finder is sprained or whatever, here they are again.

    1. How do you define “personal responsibility”? (Which is to say, please don’t offer links to dictionaries. We’re all familiar with the various dictionary definitions. The question is getting at what “personal responsibility” means to YOU.)

    2. What is the product of 30,000,000 and 0.001?

    Thanks in advance for your honest, clear, non-waffling response.

  142. says

    Although, Spec, note that it’s a rank dishonesty to pain ARIDS’ remarks as being disparaging of your wife. His remarks are sympathetic to your wife. They are disparaging of you.

    (You knew that already, you just felt like it was worth lying to get a little tu quoque cargo cult social justice potshot in.)

  143. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Specduckdynasty,
    I will admit to being prejudiced against pernicious little turds. Actually, though, I am more than willing to give those with a different point of view the benefit of the doubt. It is only when you have demonstrated beyond all doubt that you are a privileged fuckwit that I switch to abuse. You’ve contributed nothing to this conversation. No thought, no insight, no humanity. You are a nullity. The sooner you leave, the better.

  144. chigau (違う) says

    specduckular #164
    I’m happy to live in a place where we are all equal, and bigoted nutballs like you are half a world away.

    So you really are from another planet.

  145. specduckular says

    @Sallystr….

    He (?) chose to attack me through the vehicle of my wife, an insult to my wife which seeks to evince not only her poor judgement but her low character as well. An insult that would never be made to my face.

    Your pathetic defence of this miscreant speaks volumes.

    Pro woman my ass.

  146. says

    Okay, Spec. If you really want it to be an insult to your wife to observe that your wife is married to you, fine. Stop insulting Spec’s wife, ARIDS. Spec himself has so many insultable qualities, I am, quite frankly, disappointed. I expect a better caliber of insult from you.

    How about those questions? These ones, remember?

    1. How do you define “personal responsibility”? (Which is to say, please don’t offer links to dictionaries. We’re all familiar with the various dictionary definitions. The question is getting at what “personal responsibility” means to YOU.)

    2. What is the product of 30,000,000 and 0.001?

    Any time now.

    Unless you prefer to discuss your wife some more.

  147. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    @Azkyroth

    I’m ‘noring you.

    You’re not very good at it.

    Maybe you just aren’t taking enough Personal Responsibility?

    Now then:

    What is your definition of “personal responsibility” and what is 0.001 times 30 million?

  148. specduckular says

    @a-ray…

    You are a fuckin’ hypocrite. You pretend to be all, “I’m so feminist”, and yet your preferred method of getting to me is to denigrate a woman.
    .
    We’ve worked hard in this country to get rid of sexist pigs like you, and thankfully the only place we find you now, is on the interwebz.
    .
    How fitting to find you lurking here.

  149. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What is your definition of “personal responsibility” and what is 0.001 times 30 million?

  150. specduckular says

    @Chigau
    Don’t bother me with that shit.

    This whole thread I’ve had to put up with your bullshit narrative about how you’re all so pro woman.

    Then this piece of shit minimizes and marginalizes my wife… and the silence if deafening.

    You don’t care about real misogyny, you are weak.

    This is why you are so ineffective, you are feeble, pandering, sycophants.

    You are like the Peoples Judean Front, all talk and bullshit.

  151. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What is your definition of “personal responsibility” and what is 0.001 times 30 million?

  152. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Specduckdynasty,
    Unless you are implying that a woman being married to you is denigration (which is arguable), then I am afraid I don’t see where I have denigrated any woman. Care to quote chapter and verse, foodtube?

  153. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Clearly, Specduckdynasty is sensitive about living in his mom’s basement. If she’s handy, Spec, why not have her read our correspondence so she can explain it to you. You seem to be having some trouble parsing it.

  154. throwaway says

    Pro woman my ass.

    Pro-woman (rather than the accurate pro-equality) does not and should not entail an exemption from insult for making bad choices, such as marrying a clueless dolt who doesn’t understand in which direction the greater insult lies or that the reason for the insult is not based in sex at all.

    Then this piece of shit minimizes and marginalizes my wife… and the silence if deafening.

    I’m having a hard time understanding how an insult is a marginalization or minimization. If I said “I can’t believe your kids haven’t divorced you and gone their own way yet” that is not an indictment of your children, but yourself. So yeah, you’re way off-base here attempting to utilize words you’ve been familiarized with through exposure without actually doing the hard work of like, you know, showing that you actually know what the fuck you mean.

  155. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @Speckduck

    You seem to think that a-ray-dilbert was disparaging towards your wife @#163. He wasn’t.

    Please give your wife my deepest condolences. It must be rough for her living in your mother’s basement like that.

    This is clearly disparaging towards you, and offers sympathy to your wife for having the misfortune to be shackled to such a miserable creauture as yourself. Offering sympathy is not disparaging. Your comprehension issues continue to abound.

  156. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Ignorant troll does not understand the definition of the word “minimise”.

    Ignorant troll does not understand the definition of the word “marginalise”.

    Seriously, I could do a series of these.

  157. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    Real Misogyny™ is only Real™ when it involves an insult directed at Smegduck’s wife. Whole screeds claiming that abortion is unnecessary, painting any woman who gets pregnant unintentionally in the 21st century as careless, and claims that such women lack “personal responsibility”, totes don’t count because Reasons™.

  158. says

    @ specduckular

    He (?) chose to attack me through the vehicle of my wife, an insult to my wife which seeks to evince not only her poor judgement but her low character as well. An insult that would never be made to my face.

    As evidenced by what, exactly? The entire interlocution is available for all to peruse.

  159. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Clearly, Specduckdynasty is sensitive about living in his mom’s basement.

    How DARE you imply his mom has a basement, you sexist pig!

  160. says

    Of course, Spec could never muster an explanation for why being “pro woman” might be a good thing, nor what being “anti woman” would entail and why that would be a bad thing.

    It’s cargo cult social justice.

  161. Amphiox says

    Then this piece of shit minimizes and marginalizes my wife… and the silence if deafening.

    There was no minimization or marginalization of your wife, you pathetic liar.

    The insult was directed at YOU, so why don’t you take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your vile words and actions and stop hiding behind your wife?

  162. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Clearly, Specduckdynasty is sensitive about living in his mom’s basement.

    How dare you suggest that his wife is opaque, you sexist pig!

  163. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    so why don’t you take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for your vile words and actions and stop hiding behind your wife?

    How dare you suggest that his wife is opaque, you sexist pig!

  164. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @theophontes #183

    As evidenced by what, exactly?

    Oh christ, don’t ask Smegduck to actually justify his opinions. We’ve seen how that goes.

  165. says

    Wow.
    Specduckular is spectacularly bad at reading for comprehension. No, a_ray did not insult, disparage, marginalize, or minimize your wife. Sympathy=/=disparaging. *YOU* were being disparaged. Now you’ve chosen to latch on to that and avoid answering any questions directed your way. Questions? What questions?

    Me @132:

    If you’re not here to troll, then stop evading and answer the question. Are you willing to alter your beliefs based on the evidence?

    Thumper @122:

    On what grounds do you reject the notion that simple ignorance of sex ed is:
    a) widespread in the USA in 2014, and
    b) that such ignorance contributes to a higher rate of pregnancy?

    Please note that the phrase “on what grounds” means, what evidence do you have that such a notion is in fact untrue? What have you read, or heard, or watched, that leads you to believe that the above proposal is in fact untrue? Let’s see if you can answer like a grown up and give a cogent, coherent, directly relevant answer in which your hitherto unevidenced and logically fallacious claims are backed up with facts and sound reasoning.

    chigau @60:

    Yeah… the whole personal responsibilty thing kinda gets lost in the grab bag of convenient, yet implausible excuses for recklesness, that you proffer.
    So … abstinence?

    I’ll add a new one.
    Why do you feel the responsibility of avoiding pregnancy rests with the woman, rather than the man?