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Aug 25 2013

[Thunderdome]

This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.

Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread

670 comments

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  1. 1
    Frank Farquar

    Right then I will ! One doesn’t need to know BIG words or even HUGEЯ ones to box a theists ears. I know you’re not one of them, I’m just saying.

  2. 2
    birgerjohansson

    the tentacle-headed organism must lack stereoscopic vision. Maybe it uses echolocation for range estimates?
    The needle-like teeth seem more suitable for fish-hunting aquatic ceatures than terrestrial carnivores.

    If you want tentacles, I would recommend the deep-sea cephalopodiform post-humans in Charles Stross’ latest novel. (something Neptune something)
    they are the only credible description of a really deep-sea civilisation colonising a depth of 190 km, right above the high-density, high pressure phase of ice that is predicted to exist between liquid water and the rocky mantle on planets who are deep-water worlds.

  3. 3
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ AE

    I need one of those key ring cams immediately.

    I had a look around the computer market in Wan Chai. They tried to rush me for HK$500 for one of those things. Redicirous!

    I’ll have a look around the super-mega-electronics-mall in Shenzhen tomorrow.

    Would you like one?

  4. 4
    nerok

    Akchully, that is a Beholder, and those are eyestalks. Most forms of Beholder have magic abilities and use those to hunt. *snort* It also floats in the air, so it’s neither aquatic or terrestrial. How does it feel being that wroooong?

  5. 5
    John Morales

    birger, maybe they’re like Uniocs.

  6. 6
    Kevin Schelley

    There are actually a number of different types of beholders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beholder

  7. 7
    DLC

    Beholder: “not to worry, everything’s equal in my eye! ”
    or
    “Beauty is in the.. oh alright, let’s not go there !”
    or
    “What do you mean mote ? I shoot beams from my eyes! “

  8. 8
  9. 9
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/24/fake-rape/comment-page-1/#comment-676786

    Ok, disappearing comments again…
    Has our beloved hater of Lesswrong returned already?
    Was the flounce flunked?

  10. 10
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Testing???!!!

  11. 11
  12. 12
    Maureen Brian

    David Marjanović,

    See also Wilfred Thesiger’s writings + photos of the Marsh Arabs of Southern Iraq. Forget exactly how the explained / described it all but basically they recognised a “third sex” – people with many of the attributes of women but with the status and independence of single men.

  13. 13
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ok, so apparently I cannot link to it, but believerskeptic appears to be back under the nym blindlabrynth in the fake rape thread (every time I copy/paste the link to said comment and hit submit, the comment disappears into the ether)

  14. 14
    chigau (違う)

    let me try
    believerskeptic link

  15. 15
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Hum. believerskeptic and blindlabyrinth appear to have two different email addresses.

    [believerskeptic's gravatar email hash: 47d443749b5e8245dc74948ffff55622

    blindlabyrinth's: 738a19b976084e788a6082a4aeddc806]

  16. 16
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @8. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! : “Testing???!!!”

    Dunno what you are testing but if it helps I can read your post here.

  17. 17
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    believerskeptic and blindlabyrinth have different md5 email hashes* – I’m not convinced that they are the same person.

    *you can get this by looking at the gravatar URL

  18. 18
    mykroft

    The beastie avatar for this thread reminds me of a Gorgon, which reminds me of a show I saw last night on Medusa, which reminds me of the previous thread in Thunderdome.

    According to the Greek myths (as told by the History Channel), Medusa was a virgin acolyte working in the temple of Athena. She was so beautiful, Poseidon attacked and raped her within the temple. Athena was so pissed that Medusa had sex in her temple that she made Medusa into a Gorgon.

    Blaming and punishing the victim was built right into their mythology, enshrined in their religion. Their most feared monster was a rape victim, and of course it took a male hero to kill her.

    Now the myth is about women making false rape charges. Not much has changed over the past few thousand years.

  19. 19
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @11. chigau (Twoic) :

    Presume its working – clicking that link takes me to comment #178 blindlabyrinth
    25 August 2013 at 1:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment.

  20. 20
    Pteryxx

    Blind Labyrinth is believerskeptic’s band name; the “believerskeptic” handle comes from the name of their podcast, “The Believer and Skeptic Show by Blind Labyrinth”.

    —-

    Leaving these here as a PSA:

    Source

    Sarah Jones

    Not shockingly, Rock Beyond Belief deleted the thread where I asked them to deal with Paul’s behavior.

    Source

    Sarah Jones ‏@onesarahjones

    @RckBeyondBelief, whatever statement you release I’d like it to be clear that I never asked for Loebe to be fired, just face consequences.

    Source

    Sarah Jones

    I’d also like to know why I got banned from posting on .@RckBeyondBelief’s FB after pointing out Paul’s terrible behavior.

  21. 21
    chigau (違う)

    nightshadequeen
    believerskeptic and blindlabyrinth may not be the same person but they are connected.
    (can I see URLs on an iPad?)

  22. 22
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Nightshadequeen & Pteryxx:
    Ah, my thanks.
    ****

    I have no desire to engage in conversation with the racist scuzzbucket. You would think he would have figured that out. What a dull crayon.

  23. 23
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Myth #1: They Target High Level Terrorists

    Only two percent of drone strikes have killed “highvaluetargets,” former counter-terror advisor to David Patreus, David Kilcullen,notoriously remarked in a New York Times column early in the Obama presidency, where he said that 50 civilians were killed for every “high-value target” assassinated. That means that 98 percent of drone-caused deaths have been a mix of low-level militants, civilians, or another dubious Pentagon classification called “unknown militants.”
    [...]

    Myth#2: Drones Are Accurate

    The Pentagon rhetoric touting “pin point” and “laser” accuracy of drones is baseless. Dr. Larry Lewis, a principal research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses, a research group with close ties to the US military, studied the record in Afghanistan and found that drone strikes were no more accurate than traditional air power. So, after all this talk about the ability to discern enemies through surveillance, they are no more accurate traditional fly-bys. Thisrhetoric has allowed us to kill innocent children.

    [...]

    Myth #3: Drone Targets Imminently Threaten America

    The mainstream media have played into the CIA/Administration’s selective leaks about drones, especially the concept of a “kill list.”Thismilitary branding conjures up a process of carefully selected enemies who pose imminent threats to the U.S. However, the reality of “signature strikes” undercuts this P.R. construction.

    Never officially acknowledged by the administration, signature strikes target unknown suspected militants who display “pattern of live” behavior associated with Al Qaeda and the Taliban. What the “patterns” consist of is officially a secret. What we do know is that as soon as signature strikes were implemented there was a spike in number of drone strikes and the number people killed in strikes.

    [...]

    Myth #5: Drones Are Making Americans Safer

    They are not, in fact. Not only are drones effectible destabilizing a nuclear power, Pakistan, in one of the most conflict-ridden regionsof theworld,they are inciting waves of suicide bombers to attack Pakistan. They are also directly threatening the U.S.

    In a global age connectivity there is a new phenomenon of self-radicalization. People who identify with the Muslim Diaspora are seeing their kinsmen being murdered by America in a most brutal way. The Boston Marathon bombers are only the latestexampleof thisphenomenon. Themost notorious self-radicalized terrorist was Faisal Shahzad, who, in 2010, tried to blow up New York’s Times-Square.When asked about his motive, he directly cited drones.

    These rebels with a cause will sadly become the norm as we push and provoke more of the world’s 1.3-1.4 billion Muslimsinto the political fringes where American violence begets more violence.

    http://www.alternet.org/world/5-big-myths-used-justify-death-drone-and-americas-imperial-assassination-policy?page=0%2C1&akid=10843.1073566.OONpTM&rd=1&src=newsletter886777&t=4&paging=off

    I am sure the Racist Scuzzbucket will not amend his irrational beliefs to reflect the EVIDENCE. But then he never claimed to be a freethinker.

  24. 24
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    chigau:

    It’s the image URL, so if you can copy the image URL, you can get it.

    Should look like below.

    https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/EMAIL HASH HERE]?s=40&d=identicon&r=R

  25. 25
    jose

    The third wave in a nutshell

  26. 26
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    According to the Greek myths (as told by the History Channel), Medusa was a virgin acolyte working in the temple of Athena. She was so beautiful, Poseidon attacked and raped her within the temple. Athena was so pissed that Medusa had sex in her temple that she made Medusa into a Gorgon.

    Yes and no. That whole bit is kind of a retcon, whereby the Gorgons were originally a single sea-deity, daughter of a couple of Titans whose names escape me, later divided into three sisters. Later on, the bit about Medusa and Poseidon was added in, and the inconsistencies were just ignored, as so often happens in myth. So there’s all kinds of fun cultural imperialism built in there (the Gorgons weren’t Hellenic sea-deities), along with the victim blaming (which is all the hell over the Greek Myths, not just that one. Neal Stephenson once had a character summarize them as ‘A god is cruising along and sees an attractive shepherd/temple attendant/whatever, flies down and rapes them, which upsets some other god who then does something else horrible to them too.

  27. 27
    chigau (違う)

    nightshadequeen
    Thanks.

  28. 28
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    jose

    …..would you like to elaborate?

  29. 29
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    theophontes: In reality, I have no purchasing power. Because, you know, spy gear on the Internet. I’ve been asked to reign it in by the management. Thanks, but I wouldn’t be able to justify the procurement on my end.

  30. 30
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    I become at times simply crapulent with my delusions of grandeur, and misrepresent what I’m capable of, in other words. I couldn’t really take over the neighborhood, even with a key ring cam and a remote control airplane. I was not joking however about my ability to influence advertisements with my mind.

  31. 31
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Nightshadequeen:
    ::snortle::
    Jose? Elaborate (let alone do so with an informed opinion)?
    I am going to stand over —-> and hold my breath waiting .

  32. 32
    chigau (違う)

    Antiochus Epiphanes
    Remote control helicopters are cooler.
    Especially one like this:
    http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b527/
    please note the above link is to thinkgeek

  33. 33
    ChasCPeterson

    the creature is pretty obviously a medusa + cyclops + anglerfish.
    If the legend of cyclops derives from a misinterpreted elephant skull, and if the legend of Medusa derives from something like a snake ball, then it’s a ray-finned-fish/lepidosaur/afrotherian mashup.

  34. 34
    Pteryxx

    haven’t seen if anyone’s followed up on David Silverman since kellym contacted American Atheists here, so here’s this:

    Twitter source

    Facebook source

    Dave Silverman · 7,209 like this
    August 23 at 7:59am near ·

    I am tired of hearing from people who don’t want to come to #AACON14 because they don’t like the opinions or actions of one speaker or another.

    We have assembled a diverse roster of people who will make you think, re-think, laugh, get angry, get happy, etc. As far as I can tell, all “sides” of our movement (OUR movement) are represented. We are not all going to agree, in fact I promise we will not agree on everything. I certainly don’t agree with everything every speaker has said or done, but that doesn’t make them my enemy, it makes them my ally with whom I disagree on something.

    Perspective please! Diversity is a good thing, and the reality of the movement is that it is diverse, not only in race and sex but also in idea and opinion. So come to the convention and hear differing points and perhaps, oh, I don’t know, communicate with those allies with whom you disagree to see where the common ground is. On the other hand, if you want agreement on everything, stay home and talk at your mirror.

    But for the record, I will not be canceling any of the speakers on any side because of any current issues. If you don’t come, you’ll miss the largest and greatest atheist convention of the year – and it will be all on you.

  35. 35
    mykroft

    @Dalillama
    I’m not sure there was an inconsistency, if Athena turned Medusa into a Gorgon, just not one of the original Gorgons. They did say there were other Gorgons in Greek myth. The program seemed to focus on how Medusa was an archetype figure of the power women could have over men. Make her more powerful, such as giving her the ability to turn men to stone, and she was the ultimate Boogey man (or woman). Something similar to the effect Boudica had on the Roman culture, when she almost kicked the Romans out of Britain. Those societies really got rattled by the concept of a woman being able to hold great power. It wasn’t “natural”, at least in their eyes.

    Still, I expect that the History Channel would provide the dumbed down version of the myth in any case.

  36. 36
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Hmmmm. For sheer functionality, an RC choppah may have drone potential far beyond an RC plane. However, the particular model to which you linked, chigau, sends a message that is almost always false in my case. I have a turtle that wanders about my yard, and the neighborhood. I feed her strawberries on my patio every other day in the heat of the summer. She isn’t in any sense RC, but maybe we could enter into a partnership in which I trust her judgement on which questionable elements of the neighborhood* most need monitoring, and just give (or lend) her a camera, as one embedded journalist to another. And I should blog the results.
     
    In any case, should she demur, I will continue to bring her strawberries when she appears because it gives me great pleasure to watch her eat them.
     
    *just the more reactionary elements of the block watch, I suppose. Fascists.

  37. 37
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Pteryxx:

    I want to be sure I correctly interpreted what I just read. He’s saying that “rape is bad, and rapists should be ostracized” and “rape accusations are slander, and people need to responsible for what happens to them when they drink” are just different opinions? And if you are in the former camp, you’re stifling disagreement? Tell me I’m wrong, because I don’t want to be this disappointed in David Silverman.

  38. 38
  39. 39
    ChasCPeterson

    AE: you should do whatever it takes to make the boxturtle cam a blogged reality.
    imo.

  40. 40
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pteryxx, Portia:
    I probably shouldn’t, but I decided to read the comments on Dave’s FB post…

  41. 41
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Tony:
    Ha! I was just doing the same thing. And I still can’t figure out what he’s saying. Are PZ and Greta the “diversity” that people are supposed to tolerant of? I don’t geddit.

  42. 42
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ooooh boy, this is RICH (from the above FB link):

    Reap Paden
    People need to understand this IS NOT about simple “disagreement” This is about people who make it a habit to personally attack anyone who speaks out against them. David, it is a shame that you would publicly accuse and scold Justin for things he wasn’t guilty of but you sit back and watch PZ act like a twelve year old bully because he isn’t threatening to rape anyone. I’m sick of people pretending PZ Myers isn’t doing damage to the atheist movement or to people who don’t deserve it. He has openly called for atheists to “pick sides” He has labeled a 600+ member forum as unworthy of consideration due to the fact they hate women. How long do we allow this fool to scream misogynist, racist, and now rapist at people before we do something about it?

    (Empasis mine)
    He is finally being honest about the pitters!

  43. 43
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’m sick of people pretending PZ Myers isn’t doing damage to … people who don’t deserve it.

    More honesty! :D

  44. 44
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Wait never mind I think I over-double negatived that in my head. Do I turn my brain off for the weekend or what? : p

  45. 45
    Pteryxx

    Portia: I’m not sure but I’m getting a serious proceed-with-caution feeling about it. At the very least he’s doing an exemplary job of sitting on the civility fence with that statement. I know the initial complaints to AA were about Mr Deity’s victim-blaming epilogue, but from the limited Twitter context I can see, now he’s getting the slander-false-accusation story from the other side without directly confronting or engaging them. (which I gotta say is understandable for anyone who may not want their Twitter feed or con hashtag trashed, I guess.)

    Maybe he’s trying to navigate the Rifts with minimal damage to his convention AND his attendees? Maybe AA’s feminist staff and harassment policy provide robust enough support that their speakers will be on their best behavior or else? (…Is that really the best alternate explanation I can come up with? ugh…)

    This is from just this morning:

    Twitter source

    David Silverman ‏@MrAtheistPants

    @toxicpath Fun is mandatory. We just have to make sure its safe for everyone. #noproblembehappy

  46. 46
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    Oh this is actually kinda fun. In that ‘I am bored and stuck at home and tired of watching paint dry’ kinda way.
    Here is another:

    Kage Sasurai I can see the other ones I want to see elsewhere or support them directly in their works, and for the record, its false equivalence in my favor, not yours. I’d skip on a library for featuring 3 toxic books out of thousands, so it follows ill skip on a conference for featuring a few out of 35, which is a much higher percentage, against it’s not the fact that they are present, but the fact that their presence is being pushed as a reason to attend, you’ll capture their audience that way, but you lose me in the process. I do not want to hang out with a bunch of people who think PZ is a positive force for atheism, anymore then I want to hang out with someone who thinks Putin is a positive force for politics (I’m not suggesting PZ is a political criminal, just that he has gone far beyond the pale in his particular sphere, much like Putin)

    PZ Myers = Putin?
    Totes reasonable. Cuz PZ is a discriminatory authoritarian ruler of a world power with the power to create and enforce laws that negatively impact an oppressed minority

    I see how they are the same!

  47. 47
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    No no no no that commenter specifically headed off any unintended consequences of their analogy by saying they didn’t mean that ;)

  48. 48
    piegasm

    @38

    Uh…wow…

    Damn that Dave Silverman not condemning PZ just because PZ isn’t threatening to rape anyone. And calling people misogynists just because they hate women?! The nerve! The pure, unmitigated GALL!!

    Classic.

  49. 49
    carlie

    Portia – I wasn’t quite sure what it meant, given that I didn’t see what started it, but almost all of the comments I saw on those posts were negative about PZ and Greta, so I’d like to think that his “shut up I’m not taking these speakers off the list” was a comment about them rather than anyone sleazy.

  50. 50
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ok, well take this!

    Damion Torres Reinhardt

    I won’t shop at Chick-Fil-A because I don’t want even a small fraction of what I spend to fund homophobic misinformation.

    I won’t buy tickets to AACON because I don’t want even a small fraction of what I spend to support defamatory disinformation.

    Another Rape Culture supporter.
    I would hate to hear his response if Damion had a friend confide in him about sexual assault.

  51. 51
    Gregory Greenwood

    Pteryxx @ 30;

    Silverman seems to be peddling an oboxious sort of accomodationism here;

    We have assembled a diverse roster of people who will make you think, re-think, laugh, get angry, get happy, etc. As far as I can tell, all “sides” of our movement (OUR movement) are represented. We are not all going to agree, in fact I promise we will not agree on everything. I certainly don’t agree with everything every speaker has said or done, but that doesn’t make them my enemy, it makes them my ally with whom I disagree on something.

    When the bit the other person doesn’t agree on is the proposition ‘women are human beings too’, then you have a serious problem. I do not consider misogynists who see women simply as living sex toys to be ‘allies’ with whom progressive, feminist atheist like myself merely ‘disagree’. This is not like discussing the relative merits of Starwars vs Star Trek; some dry debate with no relevance beyond the idle interest of those versed in that area. This is the single most important issue facing atheism and skepticism today, and reflects a broader, ongoing struggle for equality within society at large – if ‘our movement’ can’t manage/be bothered to deal with it, then frankly the ‘movement’ is entirely worthless.

    I am tired of hearing from people who don’t want to come to #AACON14 because they don’t like the opinions or actions of one speaker or another.

    Isn’t it just awful that people insist on talking about a climate of harrassment, intimidation and sexual assault as if it actually matters enough for people to be prepared to boycott on that basis? Won’t someone think of Mr Silverman? He is tired of hearing all this stuff about the movement being hostile toward women, don’t you know.

    Poor dear…

    Perspective please! Diversity is a good thing, and the reality of the movement is that it is diverse, not only in race and sex but also in idea and opinion.

    When that vaunted ‘diversity’ includes serial rapists and their apologists, and legions of trolls that are prepared to go to almost any lengths to silence women, then diversity stops being a good unto itself.

    And as for ‘perspective’ – I wonder what perspective, exactly, the rape victims and the targets of ongoing harrassment need to get in the world according to Mr Silverman?

    So come to the convention and hear differing points and perhaps, oh, I don’t know, communicate with those allies with whom you disagree to see where the common ground is. On the other hand, if you want agreement on everything, stay home and talk at your mirror.

    No person of principle can find common ground with those who think that the plague of harrassment and sexual assault within atheo-skepticism is of no real import, or worse, presents an opportunity.

    The standard you walk past is the standard you support. I had hoped that Silverman would be able to grasp that.

    But for the record, I will not be canceling any of the speakers on any side because of any current issues. If you don’t come, you’ll miss the largest and greatest atheist convention of the year – and it will be all on you.

    So, if, say, a rape survivor doesn’t want to go to a convention that has a problem with being a venue favoured by predatory dudebros who think they are entitled to procure sex by any means, and furthermore, the organisers are fully aware of this issue but make no effort to take any meaningful steps to tackle it, then it is ‘all on’ the rape survivor?.

    When I see someone compounding the trauma of rape with victim blaming as Silverman is here, I begin to lean away from assuming that they are merely clueless and toward the idea that the act is wilfully malicious.

  52. 52
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    I wouldn’t skip on a library for containing toxic books.

    If they didn’t, I’d have to give money to the authors to debunk their crap.

  53. 53
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Nothing new with comparing PZ to an authoritarian. EG’s icon is a split screen of PZ and Kim Jong-un. And the slymies love to call the regulars readers and commentators at Skepchicks and FtB members of a cult and how we willingly drink the kool-ade. (Being the true skeptics that they are, they ignore the fact that people at Jonestown drank poisoned Flaror-Ade.)

  54. 54
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Er, Flavor-Ade.

  55. 55
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    carlie:

    That makes me feel a little better.
    If I were going to the conference, I would be all for PZ and Greta haters to stay home.

  56. 56
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Well that was a quick read.
    The majority were bash PZ comments.
    I have long since gotten tired of the ‘we just disagree’ argument trotted out by so many of those Skeptastic Fuckwits.

  57. 57
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Chas: it would be something. This turtle has been coming to the patio for nearly four years. Also, it’s cool that you knew she was a box turtle, even though I did not disclose as much. Holmesian.
     
    I bet one of our zoologists has some kind of good equipment for this. Imma look into it. Cuz I’m still really not supposed to buy a key ring cam.

  58. 58
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Ha! Damion will not eat at Chik-Fil-A because of the homophobia yet he is happy to partner with Uberfeminist. Uberfeminist uses a photo of Margaret Thatcher as his icon, she was extremely homophobic.

  59. 59
    piegasm

    I haven’t read the comments but I gotta agree with carlie. If the pitters there are howling about a refusal to disinvite PZ and Greta as opposed to crowing about a refusal to disinvite someone sleazy I tentatively take that as an indication that the post was more directed at the pitters.

    It is rather obnoxiously fence-sitty though. :(

  60. 60
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Gregory Greenwood:
    In this case, I think Dave is speaking up in defense of including PZ and Greta. If the comments on his FB page are any indication, Dave has gotten a lot of people talking about skipping the Con bc PZ will be there. His reference to “sides” may be speaking in their language to them, rather than a belief that there are two equivalent sides in the Misogyny Wars.
    He is not clear in his original post, but later comments seem to allude to this being his position.

    Dave Silverman
    That is a false equivalency. PZ and Greta are not all the speakers – they are two of about 35. Other speakers have been vocal in their disagreement, so by skipping, you’re impacting ‘both sides’ equally.
    *****
    Dave Silverman
    Now you’re just inventing what I’ve said and done. I went on Justin’s show, at his vehement request, and told him not to support base shitty behavior like veiled rape threats. I said in a later podcast that if PZ did the same I’d treat him the same, and I would. I’ve stayed out of PZ’s current issue for the same reason I stayed out of Ron Lindsay’s issue – it involves a professional colleague, and I have a conflict of interest in responding. I/AA endorse PZ no more than I endorse Brian Dalton or Sikivu, all of whom are coming.

  61. 61
    Ing

    ShorTer SIlverman: we cant afford to alienate any of our base so shut up and give us the money

  62. 62
    ChasCPeterson

    skip on a library for containing toxic books.

    yeah, what the fuck?
    I wouldn’t do that even for my definition of ‘toxic’.

    AE, the ID wasn’t too difficult given my sekrit knowledge of your whereabouts*. Either ‘wandering about the neighborhood’ or the taste for stawberries would have been sufficient.
    (Of box turtles you are blessed with two species, but the strawberry thing makes me lean three-toed.)
    (I am one of the world’s still-unpublished experts on boxturtle shit, btw.)

    *incidentally, my whereabouts are about to change drastically. Plan A is Chris Clarke’s neighborhood if I get the job I’m waiting to hear about; Plan B is the southern Appalachians where my brother lives.

  63. 63
    Gregory Greenwood

    Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! @ 56;

    In this case, I think Dave is speaking up in defense of including PZ and Greta. If the comments on his FB page are any indication, Dave has gotten a lot of people talking about skipping the Con bc PZ will be there. His reference to “sides” may be speaking in their language to them, rather than a belief that there are two equivalent sides in the Misogyny Wars.

    Fair enough – my mistake. The original post was so ambiguously worded that it did seem to be chiding people on both sides for the existence of the divide itself, thus implying that the two sides are equavalent. The later comments you have included in your post do make Silverman’s position clearer.

    Of course, there was no such ambiguity in the comments, particulrly on the facebook thread. Many fine examples of Testerical Pitter Ranting (TPR) are to be found there, all impressively disconnected from reality.

    My favourite is the one mentioned upthread that tries – in all apparent seriousness – to cast PZ as equivalent to Vladamir Putin.

  64. 64
    Inaji

    Chas:

    *incidentally, my whereabouts are about to change drastically. Plan A is Chris Clarke’s neighborhood if I get the job I’m waiting to hear about; Plan B is the southern Appalachians where my brother lives.

    Wow, major change. I hope you get the job, Chas. It would be really nice for you and Chris to be in Chris’s area of the world.

  65. 65
    Inaji

    AE:

    This turtle has been coming to the patio for nearly four years.

    You haz a visiting turtle? Oh, jealous.

  66. 66
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Chas:
    Hope you get the job.
    Do you have a preference either way (location wise)?

  67. 67
    blindlabyrinth

    Blind Labyrinth is two people. We’re both an electronic music duo (not really a “band”) and authors of a podcast, called “The Believer and Skeptic Show.” Sometimes Ken posts under Blind Labyrinth and sometimes Rob posts under Blind Labyrinth. The nym believerskeptic was used only by Rob.

    As Blind Labyrinth, we’re essentially limiting our activities on FtB to letting people know about our podcasts and audio-video if a relevant topic comes up. For example, regarding the recent topic “fake rape” it seemed to us that the fact that the pro-misogyny side was being represented by a real life sex offender seemed relevant, so we posted the link to our coverage of that topic. That link is here:

    http://www.thepionear.net/BASS-8-26-13-Rob-Rant-on-Cecil-Fuson.mp3

    Our iTunes podcast feed can be found here:

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/believer-skeptic-show!/id687002587

    Feel free also to check out thepionear.net. If it looks like a web site designed by a blind man, that’s because it is. Ken is the Christian half of Believer/Skeptic and is congentially blind. He designs audio games. Ken and Rob are both political progressives, however, and that’s the unifying theme of the podcast (progressive politics from two divergent religious viewpoints). We are also very much Team Skepchick and Team Anti-Misogynist/Slymepit, and say so on the podcast.

  68. 68
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I do hope Rob does not return until he abandons his smug superiority schtick. He is not morally superior to anyone bc he does not drink. He is not morally superior to anyone bc he does not used swear words.
    Indulging in drinking or the use of swear words are not inherently moral or immoral.
    There are times when issues of morality come into play with regard to alcohol consumption (for instance, drinking and driving) but that moral component must be added by someone. It is not inherent.

    Also, Rob would do well to stay away since he cannot handle criticism well.

  69. 69
    Inaji

    Blind Labyrinth is two people.

    Yeah, great, whatever. Listen, I left a note for you in the ‘fake rape’ thread – posting off topic in order to spam your own stuff is NOT OKAY. Don’t do it anymore.

  70. 70
    Inaji

    Aaargh. *pops Leonard Cohen in at high volume, goes back to cleaning*

  71. 71
    philboidstudge

    I just learned of this from Ashely Miller’s blog:

    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/michael-shermer-legal-fund

    Give early, give often!

  72. 72
    Rey Fox

    Be Worry, Don’t Happy

  73. 73
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    I just learned of this from Ashely Miller’s blog:

    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/michael-shermer-legal-fund

    Give early, give often!

    Or, if you’d rather have your hard-earned money benefiting women instead of rapists, donate to: https://adainitiative.org/donate/

    [Plural is intentional]

  74. 74
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Uh, give money to Shermer?
    You are kidding right?
    Not likely to find many people here doing that.

  75. 75
    Inaji

    Troll, people, it’s a troll.

  76. 76
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Arg.

    Mentally knowing that dropping out of school for a while and working would be probably better for me is not helping quell the “YOU’RE A FAILURE YOU’RE A FAILURE YOU’RE A FAILURE” mantra Jerkbrain is putting up.

    Meh.

    In other news, does anyone know of somewhere that could use a really good bio tech or a moderately competent programmer?

    [Or somewhere where I could be both?]

  77. 77
    LykeX

    Ken is the Christian half of Believer/Skeptic and is congentially blind. He designs audio games.

    Do you have a link for that? I’d love to check that out.

  78. 78
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Yes, the Michael Shermer fund is reaaaaaally taking off.

  79. 79
    Travis

    If the pitters there are howling about a refusal to disinvite PZ and Greta as opposed to crowing about a refusal to disinvite someone sleazy I tentatively take that as an indication that the post was more directed at the pitters.

    Wait, weren’t the pitters part of the freeze peach brigade? I thought they hated people’s free speech being infringed upon, even when in venues where free speech arguments do not work. If they wanted to be consistent I would think they would never consider trying to get someone disinvited.

  80. 80
    Gregory Greenwood

    Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! @ 64;

    He is not morally superior to anyone bc he does not drink. He is not morally superior to anyone bc he does not used swear words.
    Indulging in drinking or the use of swear words are not inherently moral or immoral.
    There are times when issues of morality come into play with regard to alcohol consumption (for instance, drinking and driving) but that moral component must be added by someone. It is not inherent.

    I am a teetotaler* who avoids swearing, but I do not consider myself morally superior to anyone else because of that. It is well known that it is possible to express ethical sentiments that are laden with profanity, and extremely easy to observe the empty forms of ‘civility’ while expressing the most toxic, dehumanising bigotry imaginable. As for the consumption of alcohol, as you say, so long as it is done responsibly with regard to things like not drinking and driving, then that is also no indicator one way or the other with regard to one’s moral integrity. Plenty of people are fully capable of being truly unpleasant bigots without imbibing even one drop.

    Indeed, I think that I have learned much of what I know about being a more or less decent human being from the oft-inebriated, profanity-spouting denizens of the Pharyngula Horde. One of those lessons is that a mindless, obsessive devotion to ‘civility’ in all circumstances is worthless – there are some things in the world to which an angry response it not only acceptable, or even justified, but positively required. Whatever form of words you use to express it, if social injustice and human suffering doesn’t make you angry then you need to take a long, hard look at your priorities.

    Being a perpetually sober, immaculately polite apologist for an oppressive status quo is no badge of honour for any progressive worth their salt.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    * Don’t worry – I am reliably informed that top minds are working on a cure even as we speak…

  81. 81
    Gregory Greenwood

    Travis @ 75;

    Wait, weren’t the pitters part of the freeze peach brigade? I thought they hated people’s free speech being infringed upon, even when in venues where free speech arguments do not work. If they wanted to be consistent I would think they would never consider trying to get someone disinvited.

    Don’t be silly, the only freeze peach worth protecting is their freeze peach. Indeed, their all important freeze peach can only be defended if those same rights are denied to everyone else. It is crypto-authoritarianism 101.

    Far from being the Hobgoblin of small minds, logical consistency is the Pitter’s Kryptonite. If they actually tried to consistently apply all the bogus, disingenuous discursive gambits and outright lies they employ in a bid to prop up their decrepit arguments to every equivalent situation that doesn’t favour their aganda or fit their preconceptions, then a resounding ‘splat’ would likely echo around teh intertoobs as the ‘Pit imploded under the weight of its own exposed hyocrisy.

  82. 82
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Just for shits and giggles; Beware The Naval Gassing.

  83. 83
    piegasm

    If they wanted to be consistent

    If they wanted to be consistent they’d cancel themselves out and this would all be a non-issue.

  84. 84
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Chas: either location sounds pretty awesome. Good luck. I think it is a three-toe, but now I’ve come to understand that maybe it’s a male (lots of red on the skin and in the eyes). I could turn it upside down, bu that would totally destroy the rapport that I have built with this turtle. Incidentally, I actually have been a coauthor on like one or two box-turtle papers because molecules, but I don’t really have any knowledge about them. Kind of ridiculous.

  85. 85
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Gregory Greenwood:
    Your eloquence is always a treat to read.

  86. 86
    ChasCPeterson

    well, I love my brother but I also love the desert.
    Desert option has job, brother option has family, nice mountains, and a shitload of weeds to pull all the time.

  87. 87
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    PZ Meyers touches himself at night.

    Any your point is you don’t touch/scratch/itch yourself either? Poor person.

  88. 88
    sethmassine

    Has anyone here been to DebunkingChristianity lately? They seem to be attacking PZ in a few ways, with regard to Michael Shermer. Someone please bring this to his attention. I can’t, my computer is fucked and email doesn’t seem to work.

  89. 89
    LykeX

    PZ Meyers touches himself at night.

    I’m touching myself right now.

    In the crotch.

    It’s really nice.

    Mmmm.

  90. 90
    eigenperson

    I checked it out. (Although I admit I didn’t read the whole thing.)

    Basically, I don’t think it’s worthy of note. It’s pure spin. The only interesting thing that I can see is that Loftus says Shermer emailed him “his side of the story,” which Loftus finds more credible than PZ’s side. But you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t have a ton of respect for Loftus’s judgment.

  91. 91
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    In a personal email to me Shermer categorically denies these accusations. If what he said about his accuser gets out, it will be apparent to most all reasonable people that PZ Myers published a bold-faced lie

    So why isn’t this email published?

  92. 92
    sethmassine

    I find Loftus to be quite the thinker. One of my favorites, actually. That is why I thought it note-worthy. However, I am not, in any way, agreeing with him. The reason that I even mentioned this was to the contrary; I felt it should be addressed because I side with PZ on the matter.

  93. 93
    sethmassine

    But what do I fucking know.

  94. 94
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Does Loftus have anything to do the accommodationism wars?

  95. 95
    sethmassine

    I don’t believe so….or is that a loaded question?

  96. 96
    Inaji

    But you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t have a ton of respect for Loftus’s judgment.

    Oh, same here, to say the least. Loftus has one very large axe to grind.

  97. 97
    Inaji

    Nightshadequeen:

    Does Loftus have anything to do the accommodationism wars?

    Oh, you could say that. Interested peoples might want to input ‘Loftus’ into the search box for Pharyngula.

  98. 98
    sethmassine

    Yes, Pharyngula. How about inputting his name elsewhere? One blog isn’t nearly enough to vindicate your view. I fail to see how the man fits into this bracket of accommodationist…and even if he did, how that renders his views moot.

  99. 99
    sethmassine

    And your beef with Loftus is? Also, you seem to have a blog-bias. Concerned parties should do a but more poking around (concerning Lofus) than searching his name on one fucking blog.

  100. 100
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Well, the first result in my search of “Loftus” in Pharyngula’s search box reveals this. Which is sufficient to make me seriously question his opinion on…well on just about anything.

  101. 101
    eigenperson

    The thing is, if you search for Loftus on FTB, you get the impression he’s more reasonable than you do from reading his own blog. People on FTB have been awfully charitable to him.

  102. 102
    sethmassine

    The reason I enjoy his writings is because he attacks Christianity at it’s very core: The bible. I never said he was perfect, that all of his views should be respected, etc. I admit a have a slight bias, because he allowed me to unshackle myself from Christianity. But I see your point, Portia. And I apologize for my near double post….I’m drunk and depressed, and I kind of lashed out. My apologies.

  103. 103
    Arawhon, a Strawberry Margarita

    Sethmassine
    Loftus was on the losing side of the Accommodation Wars and has a massive axe to grind concerning PZ because of the way PZ dismantled Loftus’ arguments. Also, that article by Loftus is pure hit piece. Loftus is arguing if PZ is a demagogue, an opportunist, or a principled man, and comes to the conclusion that he is a demagogue/opportunist, but mostly a demagogue. The comments are also filled with pitters, the Freeze Peach Brigade, and a couple fence sitters.

  104. 104
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’m drunk and depressed, and I kind of lashed out. My apologies.

    Take care of yourself. I don’t think you owed me particularly an apology. Maybe take a break though? Give yourself a breather?

  105. 105
    sethmassine

    I see….I wasn’t aware. As I said, my reasons for defending him are personal. His dissection of the bible in particular. I hadn’t realized what you mentioned…as I stated, I am intoxicated, experiencing lapses in judgement, and very depressed…so I apologize for any hasty remarks on the matter. I’m kind of new to Pharyngula.

  106. 106
    Inaji

    Portia @ 96:

    Well, the first result in my search of “Loftus” in Pharyngula’s search box reveals this. Which is sufficient to make me seriously question his opinion on…well on just about anything.

    Yes, Loftus has a history of being on the wrong side of, well, everything.

  107. 107
    sethmassine

    Not everything, IMO. He is an Atheist, acknowledges that the bible is a collection of bronze age myths. He may have some rather archaic and outdated (okay, there is no “may”; I just finished reading the first result for his name) views, but we can at least side with him on a few, no? At this point, I am so drunk that I can barely type. I imagine when I view Thunderdome tomorrow I will feel like a complete idiot. Sorry to anyone I have offended/peeved. Not in the best state. Cheers

  108. 108
    Arawhon, a Strawberry Margarita

    Sethmassine
    As someone who also struggles with depression, it would be best not to post drunk here. Depression and drinking just don’t go well together I’ve learned.

  109. 109
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    sethmassine:
    Like Loftus all you want.
    I do not. He is an asshole.
    Here is an exchange between Loftus and several commenters:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/02/15/target-audiences-and-playing-nice/#comment-3256

    He is free to think that ridding the world of Christianity is the most important thing ever, but I despise the way he dismisses the problems in the atheist movement. He claims to have no problem with diversity, yet is not standing up to defend the minority voices in the movement being shouted down.
    Because to him, the movement is everything.

    The movement is nothing without people. If you cannot reach out to more people and make them feel safe and welcome, the movement will not grow.

    I want to help build an inclusive movement. A movement that has a variety of voices…that reflects varied experiences and approaches. But I want no part of a movement filled with racists, homophobes, sexists, misogynists, transphobes, and their ilk.

    Zero tolerance for bigotry.

  110. 110
    eigenperson

    I agree, Loftus isn’t wrong on everything. He’s wrong on some things and right on others. Like most of us.

    It’s just that his high rate of wrongness, and his unusual behavior when he is wrong, makes me unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt.

  111. 111
    carlie

    Also, you seem to have a blog-bias. Concerned parties should do a but more poking around (concerning Lofus) than searching his name on one fucking blog.

    And commenters shouldn’t assume that people posting haven’t just fallen off the internet truck into this blog and just might have a history in movement atheism spanning several years and multiple sources of information including interacting directly with Loftus himself over the years. Just because you were given one quick way to search for info doesn’t mean that’s the depth of information other people have.

  112. 112
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    carlie:

    I’m inclined to take it a little easy on sethmassine, in case you haven’t refreshed or something. Of course your response is your prerogative. I don’t know him, but I’m hoping he’ll step away and take a break.

  113. 113
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    He may have some rather archaic and outdated (okay, there is no “may”; I just finished reading the first result for his name) views, but we can at least side with him on a few, no?

    I never said he was perfect, that all of his views should be respected, etc. I admit a have a slight bias, because he allowed me to unshackle myself from Christianity. But I see your point, Portia. And I apologize for my near double post….I’m drunk and depressed, and I kind of lashed out. My apologies.

    Nothing wrong with being on the wrong side of the argument if you learn.

  114. 114
    Inaji

    Also, you seem to have a blog-bias. Concerned parties should do a but more poking around (concerning Lofus) than searching his name on one fucking blog.

    Has it occurred to you that there’s a reason for said bias? Most the of the regular members of the commentariat have been here for years, and have a good deal of experience when it comes to Loftus. Loftus does not have a good record when it comes to social justice issues, and that’s an understatement.

    It’s also quite notheworthy that since he left FTB in a serious huff, he’s been nursing a grudge against all who think social justice issues are crucial to address within the framework of the atheoskeptisphere. One can also judge him on the company he chooses to keep. He’s opened his blog to assorted doucheweasels of the worst type. I’m sorry if you think he’s great, but perhaps it’s you who needs to do a bit more research.

  115. 115
    sethmassine

    I must post once more, before I fade for the night. I read the exchange that he had on FTB some time ago, and I must concede that my respect for him is now significantly lessened. I have a fire of irrational torment that burns within me when drink, I realize that posting here (or anywhere, for that matter) when intoxicated is a fools errand. I further realize that I was hasty to judge and defend Loftus. So, to all concerned, I am sorry. My eyes are beginning to open up to John. Carlie, I do not speak from a position of authority on John as you do, considering I am merely a frequenter of Debunking Christianity. I apologize for my comment. Now, to all a good night. Some time tomorrow, I will see what a dumbass I’ve been. Portia, thank you for tolerating my drunk ass and understanding. Now I am officially ‘giving it a break’.

  116. 116
    ChasCPeterson

    in other news, according to Loftus’s link, Thunderf00t is still a snide blowhard and an oblivious asshole.

  117. 117
    Pteryxx

    sethmassine, by reading new information and acknowledging you were mistaken, you’ve already shown yourself to be a better person drunk and depressed than Loftus has demonstrated so far. Rest well.

  118. 118
    Nightjar

    The reason I enjoy his writings is because he attacks Christianity at it’s very core: The bible

    True, Loftus is good at that.

    Apropos of nothing, Loftus’ blog reminds of Alan Clarke the delugionist. That’s where he fled after being banned here (IIRC), only to be banned there as well, but quicker! Ah, good times. Good times when I lived blissfully ignorant of certain people’s doucheweaselness.

    *sigh*

    I must concede that my respect for him is now significantly lessened

    Welcome to the club!

  119. 119
    ChasCPeterson

    …and so is The Justicar.
    Both delivering the same message by the way: they do not believe any accusations that are not reported to the police. That’s Skepticism!

  120. 120
    Inaji

    Chas:

    in other news, according to Loftus’s link, Thunderf00t is still a snide blowhard and an oblivious asshole.

    How veddy unsurprising. One thing about the Hyperskeptical Geniuses™, they are seldom caught changing their mind.

  121. 121
    Pteryxx

    <_<

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/24/bob_filner_san_diego_mayor_resigns.html

    Filner insisted on raising questions about the real motives behind his accusers. “I started my political career facing lynch mobs and I think we have just faced one here in San Diego and you’re going to have to deal with that,” he said. “In a lynch-mob mentality, rumors become allegations, allegations become facts, facts become evidence of sexual harassment, which have led to demands for my resignation and recall. Not one allegation … has even been independently verified or proven in court. I have never sexually harassed anyone.” Still, despite insisting he meant no harm, he recognized that “the city should not have been put through this, and my own personal failings were responsible.”

    …I had no idea Bob Filner was a closeted true-skeptic-atheist all along!

    To forestall the obvious:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-filner-20130824,0,6408544,full.story

    “This settlement is an end to our civic nightmare and allows this city to begin to heal,” said Council President Todd Gloria, one of two council members who negotiated for three days with Filner, his attorneys, and the city attorney to reach the deal.

    Within minutes of the council decision, a spokesman for the state attorney general’s office confirmed that a criminal investigation into Filner’s treatment of women “is underway.” Investigators have been interviewing some of the women who have come forward with allegations.

    Filner’s resignation does not affect the investigation, a source close to the investigation said.

  122. 122
    Inaji

    Also, Seth, if you like bible dissections, check out Steve Wells’ blog (he’s also responsible for the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible): http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/

  123. 123
    Rey Fox

    In other news, water is still wet.

  124. 124
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Burgundy, I am going to respond to something here over in Thunderdome.

    I will critique this statement I’ve surgically removed from your comment.

    Since you’re new, I want to be super-clear that I’m objecting to some language used by you.
    I’m not objecting to *you*.

    women’s position as the sex class,

    This phrase is perfectly representative of existential feminism’s (feminisms’) fundamental problem.

    “the sex class”?

    Cuz trans people aren’t part of the sex class at all. Or not a separate class that is also a sex class. Nope. Oppression is always fundamental, power is binary, and trans folk never exist.

  125. 125
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Ack, I meant to cut, paste & EDIT. I forgot the last. The first sentence, for those not in the know, is supposed to read:

    Burgundy, I am going to respond to something here from over in the Dr Phil thread.

  126. 126
    Inaji

    Crip Dyke, I’ll add something to yours @ 120, just a piece of advice for Burgundy. If you find yourself happily reading at a radfem site, and see AFAB* sprinkled about, get out and go read elsewhere.
     
    *Assigned Female At Birth

  127. 127
    John Morales

    And now, for something different: One million cockroaches reportedly flee farm in China.

  128. 128
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:
    I’m reading through your link dumps. Currently on Rape Culture 101 and what do you know, I learned something (which was my reason for link clicking):

    Rape culture is treating straight sexuality as the norm. Rape culture is lumping queer sexuality into nonconsensual sexual practices like pedophilia and bestiality. Rape culture is privileging heterosexuality because ubiquitous imagery of two adults of the same-sex engaging in egalitarian partnerships without gender-based dominance and submission undermines (erroneous) biological rationales for the rape culture’s existence.

  129. 129
    carlie

    I’m sorry, I hadn’t put all of the context together. I shouldn’t have been so harsh. sethmassine, I hope you get some good rest, and I hope to see you around more.

  130. 130
    carlie

    John: http://youtu.be/CeKjN-tdMkc

  131. 131
    Inaji

    Tony, I’m really glad they are doing good things for you. That’s nice to know. :)

  132. 132
    Chandrese

    Caine, Fleur du mal @ 122

    Crip Dyke, I’ll add something to yours @ 120, just a piece of advice for Burgundy. If you find yourself happily reading at a radfem site, and see AFAB* sprinkled about, get out and go read elsewhere.

    *Assigned Female At Birth

    Caine, why? This is unfamiliar to me.

  133. 133
    Inaji

    Chandrese:

    Caine, why? This is unfamiliar to me.

    The reason AFAB is used is pure transphobia and rank bigotry. The basic idea is that unless one is Assigned Female At Birth, you can never, ever be a female. Jadehawk has a couple of excellent posts about the problems with certain factions of radical feminism:

    http://jadehawks.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/ive-served-radical-feminism-the-divorce-papers/

    http://jadehawks.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/in-which-i-demonstrate-on-a-volunteered-document-just-where-radical-feminists-go-wrong/

  134. 134
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Fairly Odd Parents?!

    We have six right here. (On holiday, limited internet.)

    But we have only a terrible four, not the terrible twos!

    https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rEWu2EKxDg

    .

  135. 135
    Chandrese

    Caine, Fleur du mal @ 129

    Thanks for the links! I wouldn’t have known that. It made me think of a cis-female so I wondered why it was bad.

  136. 136
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    An other term to watch out for is women born women.

  137. 137
    Inaji

    Janine:

    An other term to watch out for is women born women.

    Yes! Thank you, Janine.

  138. 138
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Linkbork.Communication fail.

    Search Fairly Odd Parents The Terrible Twosome for proper link.

    TRANSMISSION ENDS

  139. 139
  140. 140
    carlie

    Hm. I guess God is really mad at them trying to attract the public with non-Bible-based attractions, since it was the new zipline that got hit. That’s the message to take from it, right?

  141. 141
    shripathikamath

    Help! I need Pharyngula sympathizers to help this guy: http://www.volokh.com/2013/08/25/rationalist-activist-murdered-india/#comment-1017329699

  142. 142
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    shripathikamath, already mentioned, a follow-up post. Earlier was the main post. What do you expect us to do¿

  143. 143
    burgundy

    @ Crip Dyke and Caine – Lisa Millbank, the woman who writes the blog I linked to, is a trans woman. I found the blog via a discussion of ways that mainstream liberal feminism was failing trans women. I’ve been interested in radical feminism for a while but I’m also aware of the transphobic nature of part of that movement, so I was very glad to find Radical Transfeminist. I have an awful lot to learn in this area, and part of that is learning which radfem concepts are inherently trans-exclusionary. So I really appreciate your feedback.

    When I was initially writing the post, I considered explicitly saying that this was not a TERF site, and decided not to, for reasons that are irrelevant because intent isn’t magic. It makes sense to me that, without clarification or context, discussions about radical feminism would raise suspicions (at the very least.) I will be more mindful of context in the future.

  144. 144
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @Burgundy

    Oh, I didn’t suspect you were a radical feminist of the existentialist-feminist kind. I just noticed your use of a phrase and jumped up and down on it b/c it made me feel better.

  145. 145
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Carlie @136:
    Oh no.
    God was mad at the fornicating homosexuals.
    He just has bad aim.

  146. 146
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    First I like the upiside down question mark, how do you do that?!?

    must have hit the option and shift keys when hitting the question mark.

    But seriously you could perhaps have answered #137 more constructively, like, not so aggressive?

    I am serious and constructive. Too many folks have vague ideas of what they want done. If they can’t/won’t focus their desires, they really can’t be helped.

  147. 147
    Inaji

    Robert Johnson:

    But seriously you could perhaps have answered #137 more constructively, like, not so aggressive?

    Oh lord, that was *not* aggressive. No, Nerd did not tell anyone to get lost, he asked for clarification. And for fuck’s sake, please do not waltz in here, telling people they are armchair anything. Pardon me for asking, but just what would you know about that? A great many people here are activists, on many different fronts.

    Contrary to popular opinion, we are not the Internet Rescue Squad. If we can help, we do. Other times, it’s difficult to parse exactly what someone expects, so clarification is helpful. Also, we already do a shitload of activism and social justice work right here at Pharyngula.

    So, Robert, I’ll thank you to save your lectures, as most of us are worn to the fucking bone, dealing with a flood of rape apologists since the 8th of this month.

  148. 148
    chigau (違う)

    Well.
    I thought Nerd’s, “What do you expect us to do¿” was a bit terse.
    but
    Robert Johnson’s over-reaction makes me wish for a hushfile.

  149. 149
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Libertarian? Nerd? Heh.

    Heheheh.

  150. 150
    Inaji

    Ogvorbis:

    Libertarian? Nerd? Heh.

    Heheheh.

    Laughing right along with you. Assumptions, they be stupid.

  151. 151
    Inaji

    Chigau:

    Robert Johnson’s over-reaction makes me wish for a hushfile.

    You no haz because of iPad?

  152. 152
    chigau (違う)

    Caine
    Yes.
    I have come to be fond of the iPad but Apple is Evil® and won’t let me go outside their box.

  153. 153
    chigau (違う)

    oooh “evidence”

  154. 154
    Inaji

    Chigau:

    I have come to be fond of the iPad but Apple is Evil® and won’t let me go outside their box.

    It’s not just Apple. I have Firefox on my Nook HD, but there’s no greasemonkey for the tablet version. It’s annoying.

  155. 155
    Inaji

    So very true lucky I only judge on evidence of action.

    Cupcake, you aren’t terribly bright, so you might want to stop pretending you are. All you’re doing is operating on idiotic assumptions and dig, dig, diggin’ that hole.

  156. 156
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Hmm…Wonder if Robert Johnson is Paul Gibson, my internet stalker. Sounds like a similar MO.

  157. 157
    burgundy

    Robert Johnson – I followed the link in #137. As far as I can tell, the request was to back someone up in a disagreement on another blog (that’s my guess based on context, since no details were provided.) Not being interested in participating isn’t exactly a condemnation of someone’s character. Expecting people to be clear about what they’re actually asking for when they ask for help is not a uniquely libertarian position. Nor is it a first-world response to a third-world problem, unless somehow blog comments are now a third-world issue. The conversation (as I understand it) is a common “our religious fundies are equivalent to their religious fundies, yes/no?” argument, so it’s not like this is some kind of pressing social justice issue. (And if I am completely wrong in my assessment of the situation, that just shows how unclear the request was.)

    So… where exactly is all this self-righteousness coming from?

  158. 158
    Tethys

    I always find it amusing when some unknown person (yes, I’m looking at you Robert Johnson) waltzes into a place called the Thunderdome and lectures the denizens on their manners.

    What part of THUNDERDOME are you having a hard time comprehending diddums?

  159. 159
    Inaji

    Nerd:

    Hmm…Wonder if Robert Johnson is Paul Gibson, my internet stalker. Sounds like a similar MO.

    D’oh! I should have thought of that. I’ll send an alert.

  160. 160
    chigau (違う)

    jeez
    re: libertarian
    I get the feeling we aren’t using the same dictionary.

  161. 161
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Got any eveidence of your own, dandelion?

    Yeah, you’re a fuckwitted idjit. Liberturds are morally bankrupt egotist. I’m a progressive independent, generally voting deomocrat these days.
    And the evidence you aren’t a fuckwitted idjit????¿¿¿¿¿

  162. 162
    Jacob Schmidt

    and to me that is pure libertarianism.

    You seem to be quote confused; I suspect the reason is ignorance, willful or otherwise.

  163. 163
    anteprepro

    and to me that is pure libertarianism. Through and through, proof positive, case over.

    Got any eveidence of your own, dandelion?

    What did logic ever do to you to deserve such cruel treatment?

    Hmm…Wonder if Robert Johnson is Paul Gibson, my internet stalker. Sounds like a similar MO.

    *Lightbulb*

    It does fit, doesn’t it? Fixating on one very poor argument against you and repeating it over and over in lieu of further argument. That’s been Gibson every single time.

  164. 164
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Look! A new Smugnoramus!

    Robert Johnson:
    A libertarian…here? We have had a few…two of the most notable rejected that political ideology. You will find most of the regulars are extremely critical of libertarianism, and want nothing to do with any philosophy that believes in “fuck you, I got mine”.

    More to the point of your admonishment, did you click on shirpathikamath’s link? I did. I have no clue what ze is asking for help with. The vagueness of the request actually hurts whatever cause ze was hoping we would side with.

  165. 165
    bad Jim

    In the interest of providing some levity:

    «Normal» has distinct uses in different domains. In statistics it generally means average, neither good nor bad, and normal intelligence is nothing to brag about. In medicine, though, it’s equivalent to «healthy», and deviation from the normal is something to be feared. One of the funniest scenes in the movie “Kinsey” concerned students’ fears that their sexual proclivities weren’t “normal”.

    For the sake of argument, let’s define “normal” sexual activity as that in which most people engage, and further suppose that the only majority position is missionary, but also that most couples engage in elective activities. Under these assumptions it would clearly be abnormal to have only normal sex.

  166. 166
    Inaji

    anteprepro:

    *Lightbulb*

    It does fit, doesn’t it?

    More to the point, stalker Paul decided to be absent once the penny dropped and an alert was sent.

  167. 167
    Rey Fox

    Gad a’mighty on a bicycle, this is how bad it’s getting: I’m starting to wince at the word “evidence”.

  168. 168
    bad Jim

    Fit the second:

    We ought to recognize that when right-wingers project their fantasies of persecution on us, they’re actually making an attempt at empathy. The assumption that other people are just like us is generally considered reasonable, wise, and compassionate, the very basis of liberal morality, the golden rule, the categorical imperative and what-not. Unfortunately, it might not be true. We may be just as guilty of projection when we assume that other people are basically kind and reasonable.

  169. 169
    John Morales

    bad Jim:

    «Normal» has distinct uses in different domains.

    That which is obvious is obvious.

    For the sake of argument, let’s define “normal” sexual activity as that in which most people engage …

    Well, normally, ‘normal’ means conforming to norms — otherwise, the universe of discourse determines the context. Since you’re defining it, it’s irrelevant whether or not it has any other senses than your definition.

    … and further suppose that the only majority position is missionary, but also that most couples engage in elective activities.

    So that, definitionally, non-missionary position sexual congress is abnormal?

    Under these assumptions it would clearly be abnormal to have only normal sex.

    Welcome to the concept of a circular argument.

    (It’s a very silly way to argue, no?)

  170. 170
    Inaji

    bad jim, it’s rather obvious you’re bored, however, the solution is not to be found in spreading the tedium.

  171. 171
    John Morales

    bad Jim:

    [1] We ought to recognize that when right-wingers project their fantasies of persecution on us, they’re actually making an attempt at empathy. [2] The assumption that other people are just like us is generally considered reasonable, wise, and compassionate, the very basis of liberal morality, the golden rule, the categorical imperative and what-not. [3] Unfortunately, it might not be true. [4] We may be just as guilty of projection when we assume that other people are basically kind and reasonable.

    Such shallow pontifications!

    1. In your opinion.

    2. People are different; it’s only a categorical similarity.

    3. It’s true and it’s not true, depending on the hierarchical level of the comparison.

    4. Your ‘we’ doesn’t include me.

  172. 172
    John Morales

    Hey bad Jim, don’t listen to Caine.

    (This is a great way to relieve boredom)

  173. 173
    chigau (違う)

    If you’re bored, you live longer.

  174. 174
    John Morales

    chigau, you advocate for boredom?

    (What about life satisfaction index?)

  175. 175
    Kevin Schelley

    LEONATO
    Neighbors, you are tedious.

    DOGBERRY
    It pleases your worship to say so, but we are the
    poor duke’s officers; but truly, for mine own part,
    if I were as tedious as a king, I could find it in
    my heart to bestow it all of your worship.

    LEONATO
    All thy tediousness on me, ah?

    DOGBERRY
    Yea, and ’twere a thousand pound more than ’tis;
    for I hear as good exclamation on your worship
    as of any man in the city; and though I be but a
    poor man, I am glad to hear it.

  176. 176
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Plus, you know, tedium is far less painful an experience than annejones or stevoR…

  177. 177
    John Morales

    Come on, bad Jim!

    Here, start with a snippet: “when right-wingers project their fantasies of persecution on us, they’re actually making an attempt at empathy”

    Do you seriously hold that it cannot be the case that a right-winger would project their fantasies of persecution on a third party other than because they were making an attempt at empathy?

  178. 178
    Inaji

    “Oh, who will make Bender waffles the way he likes them now?!”

  179. 179
    chigau (違う)

    John Morales
    I’m channelling Dunbar from Catch-22.

  180. 180
    bad Jim

    Let me tie the two considerations together. Normality is healthy (which is reasonable from a medical perspective, because we only continue to function when everything goes right, which for most of us it does, most of the time). Any deviation from normality is a threat.

    That’s perhaps relevant to the panic in some quarters regarding gay marriage (or even contraception or abortion): there’s the way it’s been done since time immemorial, and then there’s everything happening now. It’s not normal! Where will it all end?

    It’s hard to understand why other people aren’t thrilled by the spectacle of two old friends finally being able to unite themselves in a civil ceremony, which brings up the question of empathy. Some of our fellow citizens may feel as gratified by an execution as we are by a wedding. I don’t think that invalidates the concept of a universal morality, but it does reveal a vast chasm between the values at play.

  181. 181
    Deanna Joy Lyons - Mentioner of Patriarchy

    @72 nightshadequeen

    In other news, does anyone know of somewhere that could use a really good bio tech or a moderately competent programmer?

    [Or somewhere where I could be both?]

    I don’t know of any specific openings, but the Seattle area is a pretty good place to look for either of those kinds of positions. Our economy is recovering pretty well lately, although the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage has caused quite an influx of new residents and raised housing prices.

    Good luck!

  182. 182
    Inaji

    Mmmph, I just jammed the eye end of a needle into my finger. Ouches.

  183. 183
    John Morales

    bad Jim:

    [1] Let me tie the two considerations together. Normality is healthy (which is reasonable from a medical perspective, because we only continue to function when everything goes right, which for most of us it does, most of the time). [2] Any deviation from normality is a threat.

    1. By your own definition (that which applies to most people), this entails that to live longer than the median age is not healthy. Since that is a ridiculous conceit, your definition is flawed.

    2. You imagine that being abnormally healthy is threat?

  184. 184
    Inaji

    Oy. Alert sent.

  185. 185
    John Morales

    Phil Lewis, no and no.

    (Try harder, sockpuppet)

  186. 186
    bad Jim

    Consider, for example, the conservative response to the issue of climate change. A lot of it boils down to things like, “Environmentalists want us to live in grass huts and ride bicycles” or comparable drivel. It’s an interesting exercise to work through the cognitive dissonance that leads them to such an absurd conclusion, but the conclusion itself is so weird, so divorced from reality, that it’s worth attention. “Environmentalists want to make everyone do … ” Yes, they’ve ripped off our masks, and as everyone feared we’re communists, although they have trouble deciding if we’re industrial Stalinists or agrarian Pol Pots.

    This isn’t a fringe belief; close to half your fellow citizens think global warming is a hoax, though they haven’t thought through its implications. Perhaps at its root is the conviction that “it can’t be my fault, so I don’t have to do anything about it”, and environmentalists are a bunch of sissy bullies (which, while an obvious contradiction in terms, is absolutely typical).

  187. 187
    John Morales

    Phil Lewis: Ooh!!

    <yawn>

    You’re easily impressed, I see.

  188. 188
    bad Jim

    John Morales, no, medical normality is pretty much optimality. Your doctor might say “you’re normal for your age”, but then she would be verging into statistical usage, saying in effect “you’re dying at the average rate”.

    I watched a lot of missile launches when I was a kid at the dawn of the Space Age, and the term of choice for the NASA announcers was “nominal” when nothing was going wrong. It meant that everything was going as expected. It would be nice if we used such precise terminology to describe our bodily functions.

  189. 189
    John Morales

    bad Jim:

    John Morales, no, medical normality is pretty much optimality.

    So, you consider that the longest-lived people on record are less than optimal.

    (I think that’s a less than optimal interpretation)

    Your doctor might say “you’re normal for your age”, but then she would be verging into statistical usage, saying in effect “you’re dying at the average rate”.

    Your doctor might instead say “you’re better than normal for your age”, but then she would be verging into statistical usage, saying in effect “you’re dying at less than the average rate”.

    (Now what?)

    I watched a lot of missile launches when I was a kid at the dawn of the Space Age, and the term of choice for the NASA announcers was “nominal” when nothing was going wrong. It meant that everything was going as expected.

    It means not outside mission parameters, and it’s particularly context-specific.

    It would be nice if we used such precise terminology to describe our bodily functions.

    You mean you don’t?

    (Would you be surprised to learn that they exist?)

  190. 190
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    If what he said about his accuser gets out, it will be apparent to most all reasonable people that PZ Myers published a bold-faced lie

    1.) Let me guess: She had sex before. Maybe even with people she wasn’t married to.
    2.) Funny how everything is a complete lie yet he know exactly whom he didn’t get drunk and whom he didn’t rape.

    +++

    …and so is The Justicar.
    Both delivering the same message by the way: they do not believe any accusations that are not reported to the police. That’s Skepticism!

    So I guess most of the catholic church child abuse never happened. When are they going to stand up for the poor priests?

    +++

    The assumption that other people are just like us is generally considered reasonable, wise, and compassionate, the very basis of liberal morality, the golden rule, the categorical imperative and what-not.

    It’s also simply wrong. That’s why the golden rule and the categorical imperative are seriously flawed.

    +++

    If you’re bored, you live longer.

    “Doctor, I want to live forever!”
    “Stop drinking, smoking, eating cakes and having sex”
    “Will I live forever?”
    “No, but it will feel like eternity”

    +++
    Caine

    Mmmph, I just jammed the eye end of a needle into my finger. Ouches.

    *fhhhhhh*
    Do you blow on wounds to soothe them, too?
    In any case, think about how much more aweful it would be if you rammed it under your fingernail…

  191. 191
    bad Jim

    Regarding projection as empathy, I have a hard time convincing myself I’m wrong. The average person believes crazy things. Suburban neighborhoods are full of child molesters, it seems, and it’s too risky to let your child walk to school, the way I did fifty years ago. (What a horrible thing to have to write!) The consensual map of the suburban world describes a dangerous, threatening place, which isn’t the world we actually live in.

    But then, everyone carries water bottles around, too.

  192. 192
    bad Jim

    Somebody’s old joke:

    It’s true that exercise adds years to your life. I worked out this morning and I feel ten years older already!

  193. 193
    bad Jim

    And goodnight to a bunch of sweet, gentle people. Take that!

  194. 194
    Lothar Lorraine

    I am a Christian and I am militating for the legalization of all drugs for terminally ill patients. If they can get some pleasure from Cannabis, Heroin, Cocaine or LSD, what does speak against injecting them such drugs?

    They have absolutely nothing to lose.

    It is UTTERLY IRRATIONAL to authorize Euthanasia while prohibiting a terminal drug-induced trip.

    I am entirely serious and if someone disagrees with me, please show me rationally where my logical errors lie.

    Lothars Sohn – Lothar’s son
    http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com

  195. 195
    Arawhon, a Strawberry Margarita

    Lothar are you going to do anything besides spam your blog?

  196. 196
    Kevin Schelley

    I wish this was Lothar of the Hill People. He was much more amusing.

  197. 197
    Nick Gotts

    Your doctor might instead say “you’re better than normal for your age”, but then she would be verging into statistical usage, saying in effect “you’re dying at less than the average rate”. – John Morales

    Some five years ago, when he was 84, my f-in-law was sitting in the GP’s* waiting room. The time for his appointment had passed, but he’s a patient man, and said nothing. Two or three times a receptionist came in, looked around the room, and went out again. Eventually, she came up to him and asked:
    “Are you Mr. [redacted]?”
    “Yes.”
    “Oh, I was looking for an 84-year-old man!”

    *General practitioner: primary care physician in the UK.

  198. 198
    Nick Gotts

    Lothar Lorraine@196,

    No logical error as such, but a political one. There are already well-established and well-argued cases for both the right to die, and the legalization, under regulation, of all recreational drugs. Both are justified on the grounds of bodily autonomy, and the second also on the grounds of harm minimization; but they are logically quite independent. Starting a quixotic campaign of your own merely dissipates energy and promotes confusion.

  199. 199
    John Morales

    Lothar:

    I am a Christian and I am militating for the legalization of all drugs for terminally ill patients.

    Mmm-hmm.

    If they can get some pleasure from Cannabis, Heroin, Cocaine or LSD, what does speak against injecting them such drugs?

    Clearly not Christianity, by virtue of your own example.

    It is UTTERLY IRRATIONAL to authorize Euthanasia while prohibiting a terminal drug-induced trip.

    But then, Christianity is also UTTERLY IRRATIONAL.

    (Your point?)

    I am entirely serious and if someone disagrees with me, please show me rationally where my logical errors lie.

    Can’t do that, since your claim employs no logic to be erroneous.

  200. 200
    jefrir

    If what he said about his accuser gets out, it will be apparent to most all reasonable people that PZ Myers published a bold-faced lie

    Unless what he says is “she was never at the same conference as me, and here’s proof”, this seems unlikely. And that’s going to be tricky, given that he doesn’t know who the accuser is.

  201. 201
    birgerjohansson

    I have given up trying to comprehend the reasoning of the slymepitters and associated people. The term “nicht eben falsch” comes to mind.

    — — — —
    “Beholders are extremely xenophobic. They will sometimes take members of other, non-beholder races as slaves, however they will engage in a violent intra-species war with others of their kind who differ even slightly in appearance”

    If Daleks are the ultimate evolutionary offspring of the humanoid inhabitants of Scario, I suppose Beholders are the ultimate descendants of Republicans.
    — — — — —
    “How does it feel being that wroooong?”

    (aims Evil Eye at Nerok. ZZZAP!!!!) :)

  202. 202
    birgerjohansson

    @ 203, I forgot to add ““What do you mean mote ? I shoot beams from my eyes! “

    )(courtesy of DLC

  203. 203
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    The term “nicht eben falsch” comes to mind.

    ???
    I don’t understand that term. I understand the words, but the term…

  204. 204
    bargearse

    I have given up trying to comprehend the reasoning of the slymepitters and associated people. The term “nicht eben falsch” comes to mind.

    Google translate has failed me so I’m gonna guess, “not even wrong?”

  205. 205
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    “Not even wrong” from Isaac Asimov’s The Relativity of Wrong.

  206. 206
    bargearse

    Thanks Nerd, I’ve always wondered where that came from

  207. 207
    Lofty

    “nicht eben falsch” appears in a German folk song from ca 1907 “Die Sorglichen”
    (translation)

  208. 208
    robyn slinger

    According to Wikipedia, the phrase “not even wrong” (“nicht einmal falsch” in German) is usually attributed to Wolfgang Pauli.

  209. 209
    bargearse

    sigh, and I thought I’d learnt a new attribution. No bother, one of the reasons I keep reading comments around here is for the links to things I otherwise wouldn’t know…and it’s still a useful phrase.

  210. 210
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    The phrase “so wrong it’s not even wrong” probably has a very long history. Asimov brought it to a wider audience with his essay.

  211. 211
    blindlabyrinth

    Here’s a piece of experimental electronic music some of you might enjoy. It’s called “Cataclysms” and it’s about 20 minutes long (which is not uncommon for this idiom). The theme of the piece is how the last hundred years of American history seems to be marked by the bouncing from one cataclysm to the next, and the failure to learn from history.

    https://www.thepionear.net/~thepione/cataclysm.mp3

    Blind Labyrinth

  212. 212
    Hershele Ostropoler

    Caine @ 133

    The reason AFAB is used is pure transphobia and rank bigotry. The basic idea is that unless one is Assigned Female At Birth, you can never, ever be a female

    I was wondering the same thing, since I’ve known transmen to refer to themselves as AFAB, and I thought “I guess TERFs use it to demonstrate ‘cis pride’”. (How do I do wibble text?)

  213. 213
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Ahhh, I see
    The mistake lies in translating “even” as “eben”. It only means that when you’re talking about a surface.
    (the line in the song is “nicht eben falsch gedacht”, meaning it was right). “Nicht einmal falsch” would be it

  214. 214
    Jacob Schmidt

    How do I do wibble text?

    I’m… not sure what this means. Can you clarify your question?

  215. 215
    Pteryxx

    roxy: my guess is that it’s bait for bad faith pedants.

  216. 216
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @roxy:

    It’s unmoderated as opposed to the Lounge.

  217. 217
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    @my 217:

    In addendum, however, that doesn’t mean PZ will let people shit all over the carpet and be vile, disgusting arses.

  218. 218
    chigau (違う)

    The Thunderdome is not moderated but it is Monitored!!1,!
    mwahahaha
    more seriously
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/06/the-new-rules/
    note that the Dungeon no longer exists, banning hardly leaves a trace

  219. 219
    LykeX

    This place is not subject to the normal moderation rules. That doesn’t mean it isn’t subject to any rules, they’re just much more lenient than elsewhere. For example, there are no subject restrictions here, you can talk about whatever you want without being accused of derailing the thread.

    And, of course, there’s the first rule:

    I AM THE BOSS, and don’t you forget it. I have sole and absolute power here; I can ban you, I can destroy your comments, I can shut down whole threads. I am a being of caprice; I don’t have to justify anything I do.

    – PZ

    You can read more here.

  220. 220
    sethmassine

    As expected, upon close review of my first comments…. *facepalm*. Now, fortuitously, I am Sober Seth ™ . And further, John Loftus is a shite. Mine eyes are open.

  221. 221
  222. 222
    sethmassine

    Wow, Loftus continues to plummet….damn it! I actually liked him, too. Curse you fact tossing, open minded blog dwellers. No really, though. Thank the lot of you for correcting me. I was wrong, and I concede to it.

  223. 223
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I was wrong, and I concede to it.

    Refreshing, and laudable. *high five* Hope you’re feeling better, too.

  224. 224
    sethmassine

    Thank you :) I am. Just had one of those days, where everything that CAN go wrong, does. I’m in much better spirits today.

  225. 225
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    *fhhhhhh*
    Do you blow on wounds to soothe them, too?

    Yes.

    In any case, think about how much more aweful it would be if you rammed it under your fingernail…

    Been there, done that. Oh well, I got a nice new set of cushions for my rocking chair done last night, along with a matching pillow. I had picked up some awesome skulls ‘n’ roses fabric.

  226. 226
    Inaji

    Hi guys, I was wondering why it says “UNMODERATED” at the top of the thread when there clearly is moderation here, ie people being banned for whatever reason that isn’t clear to me.

    Not moderated, however, monitored, for things like sockpuppets. Sockpuppets are not welcome, even in Tdome.

  227. 227
    yazikus

    @jefrir

    I have read Shermer’s response, as I said. Had PZ asked Shermer like I did he would not have published this unevidenced accusation. Shermer knows the accuser and presents a more likely scenario than hers in my opinion.

    This is from Loftus in the comments. Bolding mine. Quite frightening, coupled with your quote above. I hope Jane Doe is doing well.

  228. 228
    LykeX

    Shermer knows the accuser and presents a more likely scenario than hers in my opinion.

    Well, I’m sure the hyper skeptics will come charging in any minute to explain to Loftus why they can’t believe him when he’s holding back information and refuses to give the particulars.

    Yep, any minute now.

  229. 229
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *gets popcorn*

  230. 230
    sethmassine

    I seem to have started the Loftus wagon a ‘ rolling…

  231. 231
    sethmassine

    (hides under his bed)

  232. 232
    Inaji

    So if I was to say I like Michael Shermer for what he’s done in his career and for skepticism, and I think PZ Myers is wrong in how he has gone about things with regard to Shermer, is that ok?

    It’s a bit stupid to ask, as you’ve gone and done it. So, you like Shermer and you aren’t concerned with the safety of women. This makes you no different at all from hundreds of other people who can’t think past their own nose. Instead of attempting to argue this here, why not do some reading? Reading is always good, and everything has been covered to death here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/08/what-do-you-do-when-someone-pulls-the-pin-and-hands-you-a-grenade/comment-page-1/#comments

  233. 233
    Inaji

    Seth:

    (hides under his bed)

    No need. Grab some popcorn and beer. This is entertainment. Did you check out Steve Wells’ blog?

  234. 234
    sethmassine

    Yes, I did :) Thank you so much for the link. Very brilliant man, and now I must purchase his ‘bible’, and add it to my growing collection of anti-Religion materiel. Thank you again :) Time to pop that corn…

  235. 235
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Oh, yes, popcorn sounds good.

    So do cookies One of my friends showed me that site last night. Since then productivity hasn’t been particularly good :D

  236. 236
    sethmassine

    Cookies….great. Now I’m hungry.

  237. 237
    Inaji

    Seth:

    and now I must purchase his ‘bible’,

    Oh, you won’t be sorry! I love mine. They did a beautiful job with the printing and binding. Also, I highly recommend Steve’s book Drunk with Blood, God’s Killings in the Bible. The first one is available as an e-book as well as tree book. The revised edition isn’t digital yet, so I’ll be getting the tree version.

  238. 238
    sethmassine

    This blog is awesome :) So many godless heathens! I am surrounded by Mormons daily, so you are all quite refreshing to me :)

  239. 239
    Inaji

    Seth:

    I am surrounded by Mormons daily

    My sympathies. My husband grew up Mormon, and the majority of his gazillion strong family is Mormon. Lived in SLC for quite a while, too.

  240. 240
    Pteryxx

    So, you like Shermer and you aren’t concerned with the safety of women. This makes you no different at all from hundreds of other people who can’t think past their own nose. Instead of attempting to argue this here, why not do some reading?

    It’s even been covered in posts shorter than wading through the Grenade thread.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2013/08/12/harassment-rape-skepticism-denialism/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaesverdad/2013/08/13/sexism-skeptics-and-the-burden-of-proof/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=4419

    Although, given how Carrier writes, his post isn’t MUCH shorter. ♥

  241. 241
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Unproven claims

    Keeping in mind that we are not a jury, and this is not a court of law, what would convince you?

    Answer after you’ve done some reading, preferably.

  242. 242
    Inaji

    Theophontes! Theo is up again at Rattitude. Lookin’ gorgeous, as usual.

  243. 243
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Unproven claims about Shermer doesn’t affect that in any way.

    Actually the claims are corroborated by multiple women, so they are proven to any reasonable skeptic like myself. Unlike your inane and fuckwitted claim that they aren’t. You show nothing by hyperskepticism, which is presuppositional, and your claims can be dismissed without evidence.

  244. 244
    Inaji

    Unproven claims about Shermer doesn’t affect that in any way.

    Oh, you think so, do you? It’s not terribly surprising to find yet another person who is hard of thinking. I imagine you are yet another genius who can’t demonstrate reading skills, either. Let us know when you have read every single comment in the thread I linked. There’s a tad over 4,000 of them. We’ll wait.
     
    Oh, and please don’t try the “I read all those!” shtick. It’s quite easy to show when someone hasn’t done so.

  245. 245
    PZ Myers

    “Unmoderated” means I don’t police this place for content (except you can get your ass kicked for outrageous racism and sexism anywhere), but I still boot people for violations of general rules, like against sockpuppetry, and previously banned individuals are not allowed to return here. Yes, you can say all the stupid things you want! And people can laugh at you and be rude to you right back!

  246. 246
    Pteryxx

    Actually the claims are corroborated by multiple women

    and a few men, including one rape victim speaking under his own name. I did say I wouldn’t be quiet about his statement.

  247. 247
    Owlmirror

    So if I was to say I like Michael Shermer for what he’s done in his career and for skepticism,

    I can sort of understand this. It’s possible, for example, for someone to be an intelligent promoter of scientific thinking, and to think that they’re admirable for that. For example, I (and many other commentators at Pharyngula) point to Isaac Asimov’s essay called The Relativity of Wrong as an example of the self-correcting nature of science. Isaac Asimov was an excellent promoter of science and scientific thinking, in his many essays, articles, and books.

    But it’s also possible for someone to be an intelligent promoter of scientific thinking, and also an entitled asshole with no respect for personal boundaries; a grabby sexual harasser/assaulter.

    Isaac Asimov was notorious for copping feels and/or goosing females at SF cons, especially in enclosed spaces like elevators.

    Would you have warned other young woman about this behavior of his, or would you have kept silent?

    and I think PZ Myers is wrong in how he has gone about things with regard to Shermer, is that ok?

    Would you go drinking with Michael Shermer?

    If Michael Shermer kept topping off your glass while he stayed sober, would you notice?

    If you noticed, would you continue drinking until you were incapacitated?

    If you were incapacitated, would you trust him to get you to your room alone and not rape you?

  248. 248
    Inaji

    Pteryxx:

    and a few men, including one rape victim speaking under his own name.

    Yes, and it’s important to remember this.

  249. 249
    Funny Diva

    Hi, Horde.
    Why, oh why have I not checked out the Thunderdome before? All y’all is as awesome here as you are in The Lounge and on the main pages.
    I’ll just leave this stack of virtual chocolate, bacon and safe hugs here.

    sethmassine, welcome. Hope you’ll stick around. Thanks for handling being asked to “take it to Thunderdome” so well, and for being willing to adjust your opinion of Mr Loftus in response to new information once you got here. Your type of good faith arrival and acclimation are, unfortunately, an exception rather than the norm. So thanks for _not_ being yet another flaming doucheweasel.

    FunnyDiva, naval gassing looser.

  250. 250
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, and Roxy, how would you go about warning women to stay clear of a known sexual predator? Especially those not connected to the back channel gossip who are most likely to be the unknowing victims? This about that….

  251. 251
    Funny Diva

    Caine:

    RATTIES! Thanks for the linky. They are all gorgeous, and not spoiled at all!
    Did the cosmetics affect their little digestive systems? (glad to know I’m not the only one with a collection of eyeshadow for art/craft purposes…)

  252. 252
    Inaji

    Funny Diva:

    RATTIES! Thanks for the linky. They are all gorgeous, and not spoiled at all!

    Hee. No, they aren’t spoiled at all, why they barely get enough to eat.

    Did the cosmetics affect their little digestive systems? (glad to know I’m not the only one with a collection of eyeshadow for art/craft purposes…)

    Nope. Rats, fangs of steel and stomachs to match. Neville has recently figured out how to open a cupboard in the bathroom and has stolen two bars of soap for the gang. (They love soap, any kind of soap.) When it comes to painting with eyeshadow, I’ve found the best mixer is wheat wallpaper paste. Works a treat.

  253. 253
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang, Tpyos is getting full :#253

    This [Think] about that….

  254. 254
    Funny Diva

    Ah, so ratties are like tiny little goatses–they can eat anything!

    I use eyeshadow on polymer clay…or I would, if I was even minimally tidy enough to have a space to craft…

  255. 255
    Funny Diva

    Oh dear…a FB friend just commented that this is “true on its face”:

    Morrissey In Quotes
    “War, I thought, was the most negative aspect of male heterosexuality. If more men were homosexual, there would be no wars, because homosexual men would never kill other men, whereas heterosexual men love killing other men. They even get medals for it. Women don’t go to war to kill other women. Wars and armies and nuclear weapons are essentially heterosexual hobbies.” (2013)

    *facepalm* so much ‘splainin…so little time.

    And I wimped out and (figuratively) rolled into a ball at dinner Saturday evening, when the friend I’d just seen “Star Trek: Into Darkness” with brought up the (re)casting of Khan in a way that was totally dismissive of any objections to using yet. another. white. actor. “Meh, different timeline…different adaptation…” Yeah, way to miss the point.

    Ugh. Some days it’s really not fun to have taken that Red Pill…

  256. 256
    Inaji

    Dianne! Neville is top post at Rattitude now. (Theo is second, sorry Theophontes!)

    X-posted to lounge.

  257. 257
    Howard Bannister

    And I wimped out and (figuratively) rolled into a ball at dinner Saturday evening, when the friend I’d just seen “Star Trek: Into Darkness” with brought up the (re)casting of Khan in a way that was totally dismissive of any objections to using yet. another. white. actor. “Meh, different timeline…different adaptation…” Yeah, way to miss the point.

    Different timelines cannot switch a person’s skin color. If they could, why isn’t Spock being played by Idris Elba? Time doesn’t work that way! It’s not just wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey…

    *Sigh*

    Also, racism.

  258. 258
    Funny Diva

    Howard Bannister

    Yes, that was so going through my mind…I was just too stunned and disgusted (and cowardly) to deliver a smackdown right in the middle of a nice restaurant…

    But, gah, the woman needs a course of Privilege 101, STAT! Also, to read “The Authoritarians”, because she’s also got a very Status Quo supporting mentality…

  259. 259
    sethmassine

    I am happy to be here, and glad that ya’ll changed my view. I am open to the facts, and believe that allowing a bias to mold one’s view is silly. So, how is everyone doing today?

  260. 260
    chimera

    Welcome Sethmassine!

  261. 261
    Inaji

    Seth:

    So, how is everyone doing today?

    Just got out of a scorching hot shower, and now watching rats thieve pasta, while trying to ward off Amelia, who is trying to get the certs out of my mouth. Imma happy monkey.

  262. 262
    sethmassine

    I didn’t come from no monkey. Neither did you…we are made in the image of God! Praise Jesus.

  263. 263
    sethmassine

    Ah shit! It’s time for me to debate my Mormon friends in a round table discussion. Wish me luck (as if I’ll need it. *cough* golden plates…*hack!* magic undies). Farewell all

  264. 264
    Inaji

    Seth:

    Neither did you…we are made in the image of God! Praise Jesus.

    Jesus was an ape. I go with the theory of The Great Cosmic Rodent, however.

  265. 265
    Inaji

    Good luck, Seth! And remember, Steve Wells does a Skeptic’s Annotated Book of Mormon, too. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/index.htm

  266. 266
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good evening
    Caine
    I’ve seen the fabric.
    Well, I’m only moderately fond of skulls (unless they’re calaveras), but it’s cool fabric.
    And I’m getting my machine back from servicing tomorrow, after 4 and a half weeks when it should have taken 2…
    It’s about time because I need to make a gift for a wedding and pimp my dresses…

    +++

    Shermer knows the accuser and presents a more likely scenario than hers in my opinion.

    As I said, isn’t it terrifying that he knows whom he didn’t get drunk and whom he subsequently didn’t rape? I mean, for all the cons and conferences I‘ve ever been to that would be everybody…

  267. 267
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Well, as far as me blithering on about things no one else really cares about:

    The “sore throat” has now morphed into a hacking cough bad enough that complete strangers stare in shock.

    Sigh.

    This better not be pneumonia.

  268. 268
    Inaji

    Giliell:

    And I’m getting my machine back from servicing tomorrow, after 4 and a half weeks when it should have taken 2…

    Auugh, how frustrating! Glad you’re getting it back.

  269. 269
    chimera

    Does anybody want fabric with calaveras on it? I’ve got a lot.

  270. 270
    Inaji

    NightShadeQueen, could be bronchitis. If you’re able, get it checked out.

  271. 271
    Inaji

    Bicarbonate:

    Does anybody want fabric with calaveras on it? I’ve got a lot.

    Do you have a photo of it?

  272. 272
    Funny Diva

    NightShadeQueen:
    I second Caine–get it checked out if you can. And if you start bringing up a _lot_ of phlegm, all the time, _insist_ they take the possibility of pneumonia seriously.

    I’m sorry you’re not feeling well. I’ve only got a little cold, and I’m already sick and tired of it! Hope you feel better soon.

  273. 273
    chimera

    Caine,

    It’s alexander henry’s fiesta de los muertos w/ pink background. You can find a pic on line. I haven’t got anything to take pics with.

  274. 274
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Bicarbonate
    I’m certain that L would love some.

  275. 275
    chimera

    Caine,

    Sorry. Posted on wrong thread. Pic at Etsy, same as what I’ve got:

    http://www.etsy.com/listing/158450701/rare-alexander-henry-salmon-peach-day-of?ref=related-3

  276. 276
    Inaji

    Bicarbonate:

    It’s alexander henry’s fiesta de los muertos w/ pink background.

    Ohhhh. The skulls ‘n’ roses I just used is Alexander Henry, too. Nice stuff. I wouldn’t use anything with a pink background, and it’s not like I need more fabric. I have a metric fucktonne of it as it stands, probably have close to 10 yards in fat quarters alone.

  277. 277
    Inaji

    Oh man, that is very pretty! I’m so tempted…I don’t know what I’d do with it though.

  278. 278
    throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble

    So I went to see a local theater production of Honk! last week. The thing that got the biggest laugh from the audience? A line from Lowbutt about the Cat (played by a woman but disguised as a tomcat in this scene). Lowbutt: “That was one of those nasty transfelines!”

    smfh

  279. 279
    throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble

    It’s not in the original script that I can find. Which means a local director thought it was a good line to put in. Or just left it in after borrowing the script from somewhere else. When I heard it, then I heard the reaction, I was tempted to boo. I should have.

  280. 280
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Bicarbonate
    Sadly, I’m on the wrong continent…

    Caine
    Once upon a time I got close to 500m (~600yrds) of fabric. I have already reduced stocks… And I don’t know how many Ikea fleece blankets I murdered so far….

    Good night everybody

  281. 281
    chimera

    Caine & Dallilama Schmott Guy,

    Cross-posted on Lounge.

    Tomorrow I’ll find the fabric and measure it. I’ve got to get to bed. Will post length tomorrow.

  282. 282
    chimera

    P.s. mailing from France.

  283. 283
    blf

    Different timelines cannot switch a person’s skin color.

    There are calls for The Doctor (Dr Who) to regenerate as a non-white and/or non-male Time Lord.

  284. 284
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    So, how is everyone doing today?

    Not bad. Tired.

    Smoked a Gurkha Seduction. Excellent. Tight, peaty, earthy, a little sweet, medium flavour and medium body.

    Made a batch of kielbasa and white bean soup for dinner. Enjoyed it with some toasted bagels.

  285. 285
    chimera

    Checked the news before bed. The Guardian has a live on Syria. John Kerry gave a war speech. Here we go again.

  286. 286
    Inaji

    Bicarbonate:

    P.s. mailing from France.

    Cool, Giliell is in Germany.

  287. 287
    LykeX

    Different timelines cannot switch a person’s skin color.

    They can if the split happened far enough back. Technically, it wouldn’t then be the same person, but then you could make that argument about any timeline-split, so I don’t think that’s much of a problem.

  288. 288
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Arg arg arg arg arg arg.

    Forgot to tell parents that I really don’t want them visiting right now.

    Especially since they’re in full out “Let’s be old friends” mode and I’m in full out “no wait I’m still trying to sort out all the issues you gave me” mode.

    arg arg arg arg arg arg arggggggggggggggggg

  289. 289
    Nightjar

    Caine! I’m confused and I need your help.

    I tried to post a link to the Wiki twice on the Dr. Phil thread and both my comments went into moderation. Then I posted without the link and it went through, so I thought it was because of the link. I also seem to vaguely remember something about there being problems linking to the Wiki here. However, I just remembered that there are links to the Wiki in the link dump, and you don’t seem to have a problem getting your link dump comments through.

    So… can we or can we not link to Pharyngula Wiki without triggering moderation? Or, what are we doing differently so that you can and I can’t?

  290. 290
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    test

  291. 291
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Hum. Well, that worked…

  292. 292
    sethmassine

    God that was sad. “But, Joseph Smith is DIFFERENT! He was given a vision!”. My friends….I swear. Now I’m afraid I may turn to the bottle again. But this time, I won’t make an ass of myself on this thread :)

  293. 293
    Inaji

    Nightjar:

    So… can we or can we not link to Pharyngula Wiki without triggering moderation?

    The wiki gets caught in the spam trap a lot, I don’t know why. NightShadeQueen burying the link in her ‘test’ worked, and sometimes using tinyurl gets through. Otherwise, you need to holler at PZ to check and see what the problem might be.

  294. 294
    Nightjar

    sethmassine, so glad you stuck around! Also happy to hear you’re feeling better today.

    So, how is everyone doing today?

    Trying to make the most out of this week because I really need to relax and have fun before getting back to the lab next week, and before classes start still-don’t-know-exactly-when. Today it was mostly gardening, climbing a fig tree to harvest figs, editing some photographs I took yesterday (a hummingbird moth showed up on my Zinnias, yay!) and reading Pharyngula, TetZoo, and Lenski’s new blog. IOW, I had a good day and I’m in a good mood. :)

  295. 295
    Nightjar

    Hm.

    Test.

  296. 296
    Funny Diva

    NightShadeQueen

    Oh no. And on top of not feeling well. I _am_ sorry. Family stuff can be so _not_ fun.

    So…hugs if you want some. Also a hot cup of tea.

  297. 297
    sethmassine

    Lenski has a blog?! (shits himself)

  298. 298
    Nightjar

    Okay, so now it works.

    I tried both burying the link in “Done” and just pasting it on the comment box last time. Neither worked. Huh.

    Test #2: http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Crystal_Clear_Consent

  299. 299
    Nightjar

    Well. Ok. *sigh* I bet next time I need to link there it won’t work.

    Lenski has a blog?!

    Yes! It’s very recent, though.

  300. 300
    Funny Diva

    Teliamed Revisited Richard Lenski’s blog.

    There was much fan-personing and possibly self-shitting when PZ posted the news. I shall have to check it out myself.

  301. 301
    LykeX

    I came across this piece about the race of characters in stories and what it means to change the race of a character. I think it’s worthwhile to read; there are some good points.

  302. 302
    John Morales

    Professor John Mainstone, who oversaw Pitch Drop Experiment, dies aged 78

    The former head of the Department of Physics monitored dripping tar from a glass funnel sitting in the lobby of the university’s Parnell Building for 52 years.

    [...]

    Only eight drops have fallen in the 83 years since the pitch began dripping, and no one has ever seen one fall.

  303. 303
    Inaji

    Nightjar, thanks for all your work with the wiki!

  304. 304
    sethmassine

    Ah, thank you for the link. Interesting stuff…I’ve always had a nerd crush on him.

  305. 305
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    Funny Diva

    Thanks :D I know my parents mean well, but….it’s like arg why now.

    sigh

  306. 306
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    They can if the split happened far enough back. Technically, it wouldn’t then be the same person, but then you could make that argument about any timeline-split, so I don’t think that’s much of a problem.

    Sure; Khan is a frozen relic of the Eugenics wars, so if you want him to look different, just say that in this timeline a super-soldier from a different bunch of racist fanatic gengineers. Of course, that does mean he’s a different person, who’s almost certainly not going to be named Singh, and when you stop and thing about who’s likely to make a supersoldier that looks like Benedict Cumberbatch, and it gets even harder to avoid unfortunate implications if you play the character anything like the honorable enemy that the original represents. Really, it would have been much easier to just cast the fucking character appropriately in the first place, because once you make him white, anything you do, from ignoring it to trying to explain it, is just going to further detract.

  307. 307
    Inaji

    it’s what would convince a judge or a jury in a court of law, based on presented evidence, not hearsay in a kangaroo court like pharyngula.

    This is not a court of law, fuckwit. This is why all your bullshit about evidence that would fly in a court is bullshit. The fact that you aren’t terribly bright and aren’t capable of reading isn’t helping.

  308. 308
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    it’s what would convince a judge or a jury in a court of law, based on presented evidence, not hearsay in a kangaroo court like pharyngula.

    Gee, the words of the original complaint was first party testimony. You are one fuckwitted idjit. There was no heresay. All corroborated from first party evidence. You don’t know nothing, and what you say should be taken as nothing but bullshit.

  309. 309
    Dhorvath, OM

    I need no court to decide who to be friends with.

  310. 310
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    in a kangaroo court like pharyngula.

    Show me from legitimate sources outside of your fuckwitted OPINION, that anybody was tried, convicted, and sentenced to any state backed punishment. What happened, was people looked at the real evidence, saw the pattern, and came to an evidence based conclusion. Unlike your presuppositional fuckwittery….

  311. 311
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    it’s what would convince a judge or a jury in a court of law, based on presented evidence, not hearsay in a kangaroo court like pharyngula.

    See, this is why the legal system should abandon use of the word hearsay to its overused colloquial definition and find a new word for the legal term.

    Someone testifying as to what happened to them is not fucking hearsay, you fucking moron.

    Wow. Felt great to get that out. Earlier this month, a judge sustained my hearsay objection and the witness, no shit, said “It’s not hearsay, judge, I was there to hear it.” Jesus Christ.

  312. 312
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *ahem* Sorry. Just had a pet peeve kneejerk there.

    Anyway. Trolly troll can’t answer a simple question, why am I not surprised?

  313. 313
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately “Stay away from Nerd, he’s a known sexual predator” not blurt it out on a blog post saying “Hey I heard that Nerd of Redhead raped a woman, stay away from him.”

    Gee, since I don’t go to cons, women have a lot to fear. Unlike you hero, who has both a reputation and a PRIMARY TESITIMONY OF HIS BADHAVIOR CORROBORATED BY NUMEROUS OTHER SOURCES, PRIMARY TESTIMONY ALL.

  314. 314
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Caine and Nerd, you’re both adorable. Stick to your guns, those bee bees you’re firing might actually hit the mark one day.

    Gee. maybe one day you will mature and realize that being a sexual predator is bad thing, and should be stopped, as being raped is a very bad thing…You need to quick playing like you know something, unless you are willing to supply REAL THIRD PARTY EVIDENCE to back up your claims. Otherwise, you are nothing but a squeaky troll without cogence.

  315. 315
    Inaji

    If anyone was thinking about watching Would You Rather, spare yourself. It was unrelentingly brutal and grim. I ♥ Jeffrey Combs, but it was too much. Also, The Silence (Das letzte Schweigen), while a good movie, involves rape, murder and pedophilia. Not easy watching. I’ve had a bad movie night. Imma go read. G’night, all.

  316. 316
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Oh, an Roxy, no citations, your opinion is dismissed without evidence. Don’t like your word dismissed? Quit dismissing the words of the people giving evidence (primary testimony)….

  317. 317
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Night, Caine. Take care of yourself.

  318. 318
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO. derp

    But can you evidence your OPINION, which is dismissed without evidence? Like this blog is a court of law. Factual claim…..put up or shut the fuck up…

  319. 319
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2013/08/25/cnn-panelist-on-chelsea-manning-prison-will-be-practice/

    I missed this yesterday. this is like 80% of everything I’ve worked against in my life rolled up in one, vicious statement.

    This is worse than reading EEB’s statement. This is the kind of thing that made me found a frickin’ activist org/non-profit. It’s like my last 20 years have been useless.

  320. 320
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Yeah, if this is a court of law, I’m gonna have to go ahead and exclude roxy on the basis that they have nothing relevant to add.

  321. 321
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    roxy:

    Your claim is that PZ’s blog post outing Shermer as a rapist was unjustified, no? Put up or shut up.

    Crip Dyke:

    Not useless, never useless. I’m really sorry that shit has you down. *hugs* if desired. Your work matters to many people.

  322. 322
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    O. d

    Nerd I’m not making any claims.

    Yes you are. Claim: This is Kangaroo Court, and requires evidence admissable in a court of law. CLAIM liar and bullshitter.

  323. 323
    sethmassine

    Roxy, those aren’t bee bee’s they are firing….more like intellectual cannonballs. You have merely hardened your mind to the truth, because you have a Shermer bias. I had a Loftus bias just the other day, but these fine folks lifted it from me. I hope that they can eventually do they same for you. Your judgement is obviously clouded. Why would PZ make something like this up, or even bother relaying the info if he had even a shred of doubt? Please, PLEASE think before you post something. At least I was drunk…

  324. 324
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately “Stay away from Nerd, he’s a known sexual predator” not blurt it out on a blog post saying “Hey I heard that Nerd of Redhead raped a woman, stay away from him.”

    Now fuckwitted idjit, show how you will tell a thousand women this information BEFORE the convention starts….or shut the fuck up. It is a claim.

  325. 325
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Calm down Nerd and google kangaroo court. Maybe you just need a hug.

    Providing sources for your dipshit arguments is your, asshole.

  326. 326
    sethmassine

    Nerd, I got your back! I am a level 78 jaded atheist, so I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

  327. 327
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    It looks like that with your style of “argument”.

    Sorry fiuckwit, your argument is nothing but presupposition, just like the creobots, from start to finish. You haven’t shown a lick of evidence, and I don’t take your word for anything other than bullshit. Want to be believed? Show me you believe the testimony that was offered by several people.

  328. 328
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Sigh. It’s your job.

    Offerings to Tpyos is my job.

  329. 329
    Travis

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately “Stay away from Nerd, he’s a known sexual predator” not blurt it out on a blog post saying “Hey I heard that Nerd of Redhead raped a woman, stay away from him.”

    I guess we have to whisper when this type of thing comes up. Sure we fear for other people, we worry others might be in danger, but since no one has been convicted we must quietly tell our friends about it so they will not get hurt, but screw everyone else.

  330. 330
    sethmassine

    It’s funny….maybe roxy should read Why People Believe Weird things one more time….

  331. 331
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Calm down Nerd and google kangaroo court. Maybe you just need a hug.

    Maybe you need a brain and empathy transplant. Either put up or shut the fuck up. That is what people of honesty and integrity do. Liars and bullshitters such as yourself can’t put up, and can’t shut up. Prima facie evidence they tell porkies.

  332. 332
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Please, PLEASE think before you post something. At least I was drunk…

    Your post was golden, except for this. They probably are thinking, which is the sad part. They’re just thinking about how much they like the rape culture status quo. At any rate, I’m liking you more with each comment :)

  333. 333
    sethmassine

    Roxy….I want whatever you’re smoking :)

  334. 334
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    What’s a hig? Sounds bitter, I’ll pass.

  335. 335
    sethmassine

    Can I have a hig? :-p

  336. 336
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    By which I mean, take your condescension and shove it.

    Tony’s not here, so I’m going to steal his term: we have a Smugnoramus on our hands.

  337. 337
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    hi Portia, you want a hig also?

    Ah, that explains it, you never have had sexual harassment training. Or you would have never made such a sexist and harassing offer.

  338. 338
    sethmassine

    Funny thing….I once knew a Roxy. Vile little creationist….we seem to have a similar case here, albeit a rape culture-ist? Wow, that was weak. But you get me :)

  339. 339
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Why are you such a creepy sexist fucker?

  340. 340
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Calling Nerd a robot raises a red flag for me. Anyone else? Monitors?

  341. 341
    sethmassine

    Roxy, what is your problem? You’ve sunken to childish insults. Perhaps you should get some rest, then come back with an actual argument, maybe (gasp!) evidence to substantiate your claims? :)

  342. 342
    Owlmirror

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately

    So you only want those you know personally to not be raped; you don’t mind if people whom you don’t know are raped?

  343. 343
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Oh Seth…you are so green :)

  344. 344
    sethmassine

    Thank you, Portia :) We have an angry troll on our hands, but I have been troll hunting since I was a boy ;)

  345. 345
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    I can’t even muster decent hit on roxy. F CNN, especially after the “oh, the poor rapists!” framing of their Steubenville coverage.

    Roxy, you are so lucky that in addition to raging I’m distracted. Your sexism and deliberate obtuseness, combined with your clear willingness to hurt other people simply to attempt scoring intellectual points shows a level of moral degradation I wouldn’t deign to recognize with contempt.

  346. 346
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Sorry, should have checked before I shortened your nym. Poor form on my part.

  347. 347
    Travis

    So you only want those you know personally to not be raped; you don’t mind if people whom you don’t know are raped?

    Those are just other people, who cares about them? Also, they were probably asking for it. Seriously, if roxy actually believes what they typed then they are simply a terrible person, based on that one statement alone.

  348. 348
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Hey Nerd, you got the sexy thing going on. I didn’t know robotic drones could be so passionate.

    Gee, if Ed Asner turns you on, I’m still the wrong person harasser.

  349. 349
    Owlmirror

    alert sent.

  350. 350
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks, Owlmirror. I’m not an expert in sock-spotting, so I defer to your judgment.

  351. 351
    sethmassine

    All I know is that I feel at home here. So many intelligent, open minded people! I guess that fodder like Roxy is nice, too….good practice ;) When a person makes up their mind, and cements it with ignorance, you have a Roxy. Truly sad. So, where is my childish insult? Am I a drone, too? I’m waiting….

  352. 352
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Hig = hug, wow you guys like to jump on every little thing. Why are you such angry grasshoppers?

    Why are you such a misogynist fuckwit?

  353. 353
    cicely

    Can I get caught up tonight? Let us see….
    -

    [...] One million cockroaches [...]

    Aiyeeeeeee!!!!
    -

    If Daleks are the ultimate evolutionary offspring of the humanoid inhabitants of Scario, I suppose Beholders are the ultimate descendants of Republicans.

    Nice one, birgerjohansson! I’ll have to remember to pass that on, next gaming session.
    -
    Welcome in, sethmassine!
    :)
    -

    I want to say that, and that’s how I want to say it.

    roxy, you can say pretty much anything, subject to Our Squidly Overlord’s forbearance. What you can’t expect is to have others not laugh and dance and point, if you barf up something stoopid, and for others not to expect you to back up what you say. Evidence is a good thing; constant evasions of demands for evidence is a bad thing, and the sort of thing that can, eventually, get people bounced. Also, the [Thunderdome] is not easily mistaken for a Victorian tea parlor (or should that be ‘parlour’?); if someone thinks you’re being a fuckin’ idjit, expect that they will have no reason not to tell you so. In regards to the subject you open with, I see that Caine has already directed you to the Grenade thread. We’d all be ever so pleased if you’d keep any retreads of that same ol’ shit to yourself—show us some new (not already shot full of holes, in other words) reasons why we should think that PZ Is Doing It Wrong.
     
    Or shut the fuck up. Your choice.
    -
    Eyeshadow on polymer clay…hmmm…. Must try that; thanks for mentioning it, Funny Diva!
    -
    *cookies* and sympathy for NightShadeQueen; may the peeyewmonia pass you by. And best of luck with the parentals.
    -

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately “Stay away from Nerd, he’s a known sexual predator” not blurt it out on a blog post saying “Hey I heard that Nerd of Redhead raped a woman, stay away from him.”

    And if you don’t know them, it’s acceptable to you to just leave them to twist in the wind?
    What if you were the person that someone could have warned about a rapist…but they didn’t, because they didn’t know you? And as a result, you stepped right off into a rapist’s well-practiced trap? Acceptable result, if you get raped? Yes/No; and if No, Why?
    -
    Yes! Caught Up!
    -

  354. 354
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    You gotta have a feminine nym to get the real bile out of this one, it looks like, sethmassine.

  355. 355
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Or be Nerd. Which is the red flag.

  356. 356
    sethmassine

    Perhaps I should dig deeper? Hey, Roxy, you’re a stupid head moron! There….at the Roxlevel I am much more likely to incur wrath….

  357. 357
    PZ Myers

    Roxy got creepy fast. Bye.

  358. 358
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *and there was much rejoicing*

    Thanks Squidly One.

  359. 359
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Sorry you didn’t get the chance to get crapped on, sethmassine. Better luck with the next one. ;)

  360. 360
    sethmassine

    Yes! Goodbye, Roxy! Now we can resume our intelligent, interesting conversations, divorced from stupidity and bullshit :)

  361. 361
    sethmassine

    I was so looking forward to unleashing the full power of my Rational Missiles…oh well…next time, as you say :) Maybe I’ll luck out, and it’ll be a creationist! they are my specialty, after all ;)

  362. 362
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Oooh, yes, I like to watch the creationists go down. I was one for so much of my adolescence that it’s a bit surreal :)

    Thanks to you, sethmassine, I have a new book on my wishlist: Skeptics Annotated Bible. Wicked cool to have.

  363. 363
    chigau (違う)

    darn
    I missed another one.

  364. 364
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    And with that, I’m off to bed…I have exercise scheduled to sleep through early tomorrow morning ^_^

  365. 365
    sethmassine

    Hey, we have that in common. I was an avid reader of any ICR publications, steeped in HAM, and read The Genesis Flood 3 times. I am well equipped to dismantle their cheap lil’ pretend arguments :)

  366. 366
    sethmassine

    Night Portia, and to all here, I must also retire. Peace of Christ be with you all…..

  367. 367
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    sethmassine (Is it ok if I call you Seth?) I’m checking out for the evening but we’ll have to commiserate another day about our former shared delusions :)

  368. 368
    Rey Fox

    If I knew them personally I would tell them privately

    Women have been grapevining for years now with Shermer. Some of them finally decided a signal boost was necessary. And I haven’t seen anything that would refute that.

  369. 369
    sethmassine

    Agreed, and yes, you may :) Have a good night

  370. 370
    sethmassine

    G’nite Thunderdome.

  371. 371
    Owlmirror

    and read The Genesis Flood 3 times

    Have you read The Defeat of Flood Geology by Flood Geology?

  372. 372
    chigau (違う)

    So is MS not identifying Jane Doe because he can’t figure out which one (of the many) she is?

  373. 373
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Caine

    Theo is up again at Rattitude. Lookin’ gorgeous, as usual.

    Scritches to The World’s Favourite Rodent © .

    (Your site is still regarded as subversive by The Powers That Be ™ , so I’ll have to wait until I am back in Hong Kong to see the pix.)

    @ AE

    I managed to get my claws on a micro-camera. It cost all of $10. I’ll see if I can post some video footage.

    How does one attach such a device to a box turtle? (Obviously in such a way as to not inconvenience/stress the animal in any way.) Water soluble glue and velcro? Perhaps Chas has ideas? I’ll also have to find a way to get one to you.

    @ sethmassine

    Aaaaarrrrr! Welcome on board.

  374. 374
    Owlmirror

    I see that the NCSE has two more papers that cite Senter’s paper:

    Pleistocene continental glaciers: a single ice age following a Genesis Flood or multiple ice ages?

    and

    More Geological Reasons Noah’s Flood Did Not Happen

    [Comic Sans] Fountains of the Great Deep. . . . .!! [/Comic Sans]

  375. 375
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @owlmirror.

    I’m reading it now.

    More later, but I’ve seen the chart from the study without reading the whole paper before. Interesting so far.

  376. 376
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Dang, wish I had time to read Owlmirror’s links. Hopefully I’ll get a chance tomorrow. Just got the Redhead to bed. Now my turn. Bye Roxy.

  377. 377
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Gosh, I missed the…what was it called…oh yeah F U N.

    (Psst, Portia…smugnoramus is in the public domain, to be used as one sees fit. Personally, I cannot wait to use CaitieCat’s ‘Skeptijizzum’ [slang for the shit pseudoskeptics spew].)

  378. 378
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    After spending a week on the colorado river through the Grand Canyon, the absurdity of flood geology and young earthism is so spectacularly clear that I never want to stop slapping them.

  379. 379
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    The Skeptics Annotated Bible is also online…

  380. 380
    Funny Diva

    Dalillama, Schmott Guy @306:

    Sure; Khan is a frozen relic of the Eugenics wars, so if you want him to look different, just say that in this timeline a super-soldier from a different bunch of racist fanatic gengineers. Of course, that does mean he’s a different person, who’s almost certainly not going to be named Singh, and when you stop and thing about who’s likely to make a supersoldier that looks like Benedict Cumberbatch, and it gets even harder to avoid unfortunate implications if you play the character anything like the honorable enemy that the original represents. Really, it would have been much easier to just cast the fucking character appropriately in the first place, because once you make him white, anything you do, from ignoring it to trying to explain it, is just going to further detract.

    And when you’ve got Leonard Nimoy onscreen as Spock Prime, and Zachary Quinto is cast and made up to look EXACTLY like his younger counterpart, the whole “different timeline” excuse just falls flat. It clearly mattered _a lot_ that the current Crew believably resemble their ST:TOS counterparts. Khan was clearly iconic enough to cast Ricardo Montalban in ST: WOK. They were just frikkin’ lazy when they had to re-cast Khan for this film. They could and, IMO, should have done much better.
    Not that it would have helped me stay awake through _yet another_ chase/action/fight scene.

    I’ve just been so well educated and sensitized by Teh Horde that privileged dismissal of objections to obvious “White=Default” crapola sticks in my craw. Thanks a lot, Horde!

  381. 381
    chigau (違う)

    We need a troll.
    Where is annejones?
    Where is StevoR?

  382. 382
    Funny Diva

    Portia @321

    Crip Dyke:

    Not useless, never useless. I’m really sorry that shit has you down. *hugs* if desired. Your work matters to many people.

    QFMFT

    hugs from me, too, if desired. Your work DOES matter. Your voice makes a big difference around FTB, and I’m sure it’s even more powerful away from keyboard.

  383. 383
    ChasCPeterson

    who the fuck is ‘roxy’?
    Thunderdome bans? I dunno.

  384. 384
    ChasCPeterson

    alert sent.

    eh.

  385. 385
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Maybe we can get schooled on creationism by a busload of high schoolers again. That killed almost two hours.

  386. 386
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Chas:
    I take it you do not think people should be banned from the Dome? If so, why?

  387. 387
    chigau (違う)

    Thunderdome bans? I dunno.

    jeeez
    Where have you been lately?

  388. 388
    ChasCPeterson

    *shrug*
    You either have a Thunderdome that’s really “no-holds-barred unmoderated chaos,” as advertised. or you don’t, it seems to me.
    But since it’s not my blog, who gives a shit what I think?

  389. 389
    chigau (違う)

    who gives a shit what I think?

    Finally!

  390. 390
    Amphiox

    Is space empty?

    Thunderdome is about as unmoderated as interplanetary space is a vacuum.

    What definition of “un” do you cleave to?

    The philosopher’s?

    The mathematician’s?

    The theologist’s?

    Or the empiricist’s?

  391. 391
    Inaji

    Chas:

    Thunderdome bans? I dunno.

    What a surprise.

    PZ:

    Also, just participating in the thunderdome does not mean you’ve got complete carte blanche. Thunderdome was rigged, remember? You can go beyond the pale there, and I will ban people for particularly egregious behavior.

  392. 392
    ChasCPeterson

    chigau:touché
    Caine: like I said, not my blog.

  393. 393
    chigau (違う)

    ChasCPeterson
    What is your deal?
    You complain about the Lounge and/or the Thunderdome not Really™ being The Endless Thread.
    You renounced your Molly.
    You once were the Keeper of the Stats.
    and other stuff

    Why are you here?

  394. 394
    ChasCPeterson

    a) habit
    b) noplace bettter

  395. 395
    John Morales

    chigau, why are other old-timers no longer here?

  396. 396
    chigau (違う)

    Chas
    ah
    understood

    John Morales
    fucked if I know
    do you?

  397. 397
    chigau (違う)

    and some “old timers” are still here
    and some have returned

  398. 398
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    chigau @397

    Tik tik tik

    Indeed we have.

    Even if we are infrequent.

  399. 399
    chigau (違う)

    Cerberus von Snarkmistress
    and we newbies are delighted to have you back

  400. 400
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I have not felt like commenting much in recent months.

  401. 401
    chigau (違う)

    Janine
    You are missed when you don’t comment.

  402. 402
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Ah, Cerberus!

    I was mistaken for you the other day, to my eternal credit.

    How are you?

  403. 403
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Crip Dyke @402

    Well. Up until very recently, exceedingly poorly. My financial situation was pretty much at impending homelessness and my brain was deciding that a brief break between my summer job ending and my new (doesn’t quite pay the bills) fall job was a great time to emotionally process everything that’s been happening with me. So yeah, emotionally and financially a train wreck.

    But my readers at my blog really pulled through for me and my partner got some help as well from the state, so we might actually be semi-financially okay with a few more things and that’ll give me a fuckton more resources for the emotional stuff. So yeah, doing really good at the moment.

    How have you been?

    Also you were mistaken for me? I would totes love to see that.

    And yeah, I’ve been here, and following all the Shermer crap, but posting infrequently because I like to try and catch up first when I can and have been running myself ragged trying to avoid financial collapse this month.

  404. 404
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Oh and I’m also taking a free online class for trans* rape survivors so I can sort of further process my rape.

    Ironically enough, the crap PZ has been going through hasn’t been triggering my rape flashbacks so much as my abject terror for when I call out my old trans-discriminating employers in the future. But eh, as I said, I’m on a pretty good upswing at the moment because of my readers being fucking amazing.

  405. 405
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning

    Cerberus
    *anklehugs*
    That was some horrible 12 seconds :(

    bicarbonate
    Wait, that’s the right continent!
    May I ask which part of France you’re in? I’m next to Lorraine in Germany.

    +++

    Women have been grapevining for years now with Shermer. Some of them finally decided a signal boost was necessary. And I haven’t seen anything that would refute that.

    And I also remember how the very same people who are howling out now about “horrible women naming him publicly” howled then about “Name names, don’t you care, it’s your fault if anybody gets hurt”

    +++
    Heavy TW child abuse
    A little story about courts and evidence in courts.
    More than 10 years ago where I live a little boy vanished.
    I’m not going to mention all the mistakes and bullshit the police did, but in the end there was a trial against 12 people. They were accused to have raped the boy (and other kids) and killed this child after an excessive gang rape. There were confessions, different people admitting to “having been part of it but XYZ was the one who actually did it” and so on. During all of this the lawyers noticed that the prosecution didn’t have much except those confessions so the accused retracted them as it is their right. They all walked free. The judge said that while he was personally convinced that they were guilty he could not convicted them with the standard of evidence a court demands.
    The only person who was sentenced was somebody who hadn’t been there the day of the murder but who had made a confession of having raped kids there before and the landlady being the facilitator who got money for it.
    So, please excuse me if I don’t want to make my decisions whether to trustt some people or not based on court verdicts….

  406. 406
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I too miss your comments Janine.

  407. 407
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Cerberus:
    So happy for you that things have taken a turn for the better.

  408. 408
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Giliell @405

    SAFE HUGS right back.

    Also that story… fuck.

    It’s always been really obvious to me that the whole “court of law” tack is a) a straight up acknowledgment that our broken justice system makes it nigh on impossible for justice to be mete on issues of rape and sexual assault and b) a means of eliminating any real means to speak about the issue.

    Oh, if you don’t go through this system we’ve deliberately set up to be abusive, then it didn’t happen. And if it didn’t happen and if all the other cases where it happened didn’t happen, then we don’t actually have to do anything, because nothing happened. And if nothing happened when so many women say things have happened, then it clearly means that women are liars and lying about things happening and every time they say something happened, they must be disbelieved, because as we’ve stated, nothing has happened.

    Maybe there’s a core that just wants to run away from what it reveals about the world that so much rape happens every day to so many people and what that says about how likely they are to know a rapist personally or BE a rapist personally.

    Even more, it becomes hard to ignore the pattern of actual rapists and the way they often try and get their victims to minimize the rapes they perpetrate against them and make them feel small and alone and like the only way they can strike back is to go through a rigged game that’s more destructive to the victim than the perpetrator. And to put that together with the actions of the apologists.

    Some, hell, many in fact might just be covering up for their buddies or a culture they have silently or enthusiastically supported.

    But there’s definitely a core who are seeing what we’re all pointing out as rape and going “nah, that can’t be, cause I… Oh, I see. Uh…. no one has ever been raped, they’re all lying bitches”. And trusting their fellow network of rapists and those who don’t want to admit supporting rapists to cover for them and try and terrorize all the victims from being honest and open.

  409. 409
    myeck waters

    Thank you, roxy, for helping make my morning catch-up reading kind of dadaist.

  410. 410
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Cerberus

    Maybe there’s a core that just wants to run away from what it reveals about the world that so much rape happens every day to so many people and what that says about how likely they are to know a rapist personally or BE a rapist personally.

    There’s an excercise I recommend to people who are diminishing the numbers (“80% of women are not raped” “94% of men never rape”): Walk down a busy street and count the women you see. Count to 5. Every 5 is a rape victim (or 4, or 6, 8, or hell, even 10, depending on what statistic you find credible). After a while, count the men. Every 20 is a rapist. Then go and puke.
    It’s frightening as hell. I live in a house with 78 flats, there are probably 50-60 men living here. That’s 2-3 rapists on average and given that somebody already took it on him to moan like he was having sex over the intercom while I held the door waiting for my kids I can quite believe the probability. And I live here, in the same house as they live and I have no fucking clue who they are.
    I think especially for women a lot of denial is to keep themselves safe. If I follow the rules and do the right things I won’t get raped. Those who get raped did something wrong, this can’t happen to me.

  411. 411
    Louis

    chigau, why are other old-timers no longer here?

    Less here due to working. Therefore lurking. Working and lurking. My time management skills might be mighty, but they are finite.

    Unfortunately. Imagine having an infinite skill like that…

    Louis

  412. 412
    birgerjohansson

    I like Templesmith’s take on the Gorgon mythology in Wormwood; Gentleman Corpse.
    No spoilers, you have to read it.

    — — — — — — —
    If you want a troll, I can try writing comments after midnight. I get pretty stupid without sleep.

  413. 413
    Howard Bannister

    283
    blf

    Different timelines cannot switch a person’s skin color.

    There are calls for The Doctor (Dr Who) to regenerate as a non-white and/or non-male Time Lord.

    That’s different. In-canon regenerations are known to be reinventions of persons, and have been shown in canon to switch both skin color and gender. This is known.

  414. 414
    Howard Bannister

    More extreme changes were possible. Cavisadoratrelundar regenerated a complete body after being decapitated; the process was cut short when he was stabbed through both hearts. (PROSE: The Shadows of Avalon) The Eleventh Doctor at first thought he had become a woman before rediscovering his Adam’s Apple, (TV: The End of Time) while the Ninth Doctor suggested two heads or none were possible (TV: The Parting of the Ways). His eleventh incarnation stated clearly that he could become “anything”. (TV: Death of the Doctor) Romana was known to be able to choose her appearance; one option she considered was coloured blue. (TV: Destiny of the Daleks) The Corsair was a Time Lord/Time Lady whom the Doctor had known in both sexes. (TV: The Doctor’s Wife) Time Lords could also change their skin colour, as mentioned by the Doctor, (TV: Death of the Doctor) and seen in Melody Pond’s case when she regenerated into her third and final incarnation. (TV: Let’s Kill Hitler)

    http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Regeneration

    I am not actually a Whovian, but I am a pedant.

  415. 415
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Howard Bannister

    Any relation to Minnie Bannister?

    @ AE

    The spycam records like a $10 dollar spycam¹.


    ¹ ie:“crap” (see also, raw footage)

  416. 416
    Howard Bannister

    @ Howard Bannister

    Any relation to Minnie Bannister?

    It would be a neat trick, given that my name is actually not Bannister at all.

    The nym is taken from the Barbara Streisand screwball comedy, What’s Up Doc? The Picture of Ryan O’Neal is supposed to make it slightly more clear. :P

  417. 417
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Howard Bannister

    I would have been flabbergasted to learn you were related to her: Linky.

  418. 418
    Howard Bannister

    Hmm. As I’m named after a fictional character, and she is a fictional character, I think that means we’re related after all.

  419. 419
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    Okay, this comes close to IDing me to certain people.

    I’m not anonymous in the strictest sense. I used cripdyke as an internet handle but openly connected to my IRL identity for some years, then stopped connecting the two openly because partners were concerned about the death and bomb threats that came from my activism (along with other fun things). I’ve said a lot on here that is personal enough that people could already ID me with 8 to 12 hours of competent work from a private eye or a few days from an amateur. But here’s the thing that really marks me:

    I am identified as the person who started the larger US/Canadian discussion on anti-trans & anti-interesex domestic violence. Of course others were doing it as early as me or possibly even earlier, but only on a local level. I put out a national survey, I conceived and then co-founded the first non-profit specifically to address the issue, and did a bunch of other things. For a long time, I was cited on every single paper written on trans people & DV. When I went back to school to get the classes I needed for law school, I took a class called race, gender & violence. “Queer week” had one author on the topic of trans survivors, and she did no original research, just cited writings of mine. [The professor went on to use this information incompetently, which led to a very uncomfortable exchange since she had no idea that the student named the same as the only primary source on one of the days 3 topics was in fact that only primary source...because my francophone name was oh-so-common in Oregon]

    This is how deeply connected with this issue I am. I’ve avoided getting too close to it at times on here out of respect for the people around me, but really I’m not anonymous in any real sense – not in the sense that would save me from a person determined to commit violence – and the other remaining reason is just to make it absolutely clear that when I’m on here, I’m speaking as a private party, not as a representative of a school or a non-profit or anything else. I think I can say all of the above without compromising that.

    But why did I need to say it?

    Cerberus: you said you were in an online class for trans* survivors. I would love to know who is conducting that class and to make contact. After working against trans* rape and domestic violence for 2 decades – yeah, 2 decades of not just general trans* activism, but specifically on this topic – and hearing that F commentator joke about the rape of trans prisoners in a way that not only endorsed such rape as acceptable, but also managed to demean all women at the same time? This is why I took it so hard. And this is why hearing that there is such a class is such a big deal to me. When I was saying that it was like my activism didn’t matter, I really felt it.

    But when I was looking for help after a violent relationship that included weekly rape, I was referred to a rapists’ treatment group. To think that now I might be referred to an online class specific to trans survivors **is** what my activism has been about. The fact that it could be done without my knowledge when once it was impossible to do anything on this topic without my knowing about it actually makes me more happy than you can imagine.

    I’ve always known that the rape of trans people wouldn’t stop if I was the only person talking about it, or even if I was the only person pushing the conversation at a national level, the only one making the connections between otherwise separated local groups. My goal, since I never believed I could end all rape in my lifetime has always been that the movement for trans survivors get to a point where it doesn’t need me, doesn’t even remember or cite me as my work is so superceded as to be no longer relevant to the movement’s current achievements and contexts. Although I’d like to offer them help if they want it, I’m overjoyed that this seems to be actually happening.

    Thank you, Cerberus. From the bottom of my ventricles and the entirety of the surface of the bottoms of my feet.

  420. 420
    Jacob Schmidt

    So this popped up in the A+ forums.

    I wish I could be surprised, but men silencing women for spaeking on topics about which the men have no experience is hardly surprising.

  421. 421
    smhll

    So this popped up in the A+ forums.

    I wish I could be surprised, but men silencing women for speaking on topics about which the men have no experience is hardly surprising.

    This particular event happened, I think, a week before the conference at which Bria and JT Eberhart interacted. While it’s unlikely he was aware of it, it got a lot of coverage in blogs written by African American women, so there’s some probability Bria knew about it. Therefore, it could have formed a backdrop for the situation that happened with them after the “black on black crime” question. Overall, Bria is a lot more likely to know of situations where women of color were silenced or not included than JT is. Thus his judgement of how much of a reaction is called for is not likely to be universally accurate and just right.

  422. 422
    sethmassine

    Owlmirror: I do not believe I’ve even heard of that, but now you have my interest :) Hello all. How is everyone doing today?

  423. 423
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Janine, Cerberus
    I always look forward to seeing comments from you, and you are missed when you’re away.

  424. 424
    Inaji

    ‘Tis a day filled with circular Kw*kity. Oh my.

  425. 425
    Inaji

    smhll:

    Thus his judgement of how much of a reaction is called for is not likely to be universally accurate and just right.

    Ah, JT. He has a staunch defender front page, accused PZ of tossing another ‘grenade’. Poor ol’ JT. Oy.

  426. 426
    Jacob Schmidt

    While it’s unlikely he was aware of it, it got a lot of coverage in blogs written by African American women, so there’s some probability Bria knew about it.

    Yeah, I should amend my post to “…white men silencing women of colour…”

    Thus his judgement of how much of a reaction is called for is not likely to be universally accurate and just right.

    His judgement seems to be based entirely on how offended he was. He gets the privilege of assuming racism is really just “good natured ignorance” because he isn’t hurt by it and risks nothing by spending time around potential racists.

  427. 427
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Tony:

    I know it’s all online, but I’m a bibliophile :) Being able to grab it off the shelf and point to the verse would also be helpful, I think.

  428. 428
    sethmassine

    Oh freaking fantastic. I just lost my job. 5 years of giving to them and what do I get? Jesus Christ.

  429. 429
    cicely

    *and there was much rejoicing*

    Thanks Squidly One.

    +1
    -
    *non-intrusive gestures of welcoming-back and sympathy* for Cerberus.
    -
    Crap! sethmassine, I’m so sorry.
    :(
    -

  430. 430
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    damn, sethmassine, I’m sorry. : (

  431. 431
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Crip Dyke:

    Hugs if you want them. I’m glad to hear you’re feeling…relieved? hopeful? a little better? Chose your own adventure, I’m just happy for you.

    Cerberus:
    *hugs* if you want ‘em, and good to see you.

  432. 432
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    @sethmassine

    I’m so sorry. USB chocolate-covered hugs coming your way.

  433. 433
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Crip Dyke @419

    Email me at cerberussadlyno At gmail Dot com and I can send you the links, the details, and the two main people who are running it. So far it’s pretty good. A bit 101, but definitely trauma aware and very careful to be inclusive. And free and online, which are two HUGE things considering the usual problem with trans* resources of any kind.

    sethmassine @428

    Oh Bob, that’s terrible. ALL THE SAFE HUGS! Are you going to be okay?

    Jacob Schmidt @426

    He gets the privilege of assuming racism is really just “good natured ignorance” because he isn’t hurt by it and risks nothing by spending time around potential racists.

    And of course, he’s hurt more and views as more terrible the notion of being “thought of” as a racist, rather than someone who is just a slight bit of naive, because he will never experience racism in that way and is only likely to be personally affected by the other. So of course, being thought of as racist when one isn’t is totes worse than anything suffered as an affect of racism.

    And this isn’t in itself racism because, heh, it’s not like those people are really fully real or their problems really penetrate, so why bother even thinking of them as bad. He knows what it’s like to be thought of as racist though and it hurts his feelings (even though his dismissal of the pain of racism shows it to be true) so why bother trying empathy?

  434. 434
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Oh also Crip Dyke, do you have a link to where someone thought you were me? Cause that sounds bizarrely fascinating.

  435. 435
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    It’s here.

    I didn’t initially link to it b/c it’s not that amusing, really. Pterryx just responds with your nym to my comment, when you weren’t participating in the thread (which was the only really weird part, if we were both on there, responding to the nym of an adjacent comment or something is entirely routine, as errors go).

    But the thread has some good stuff in it. If you search for Caine and read both what she writes and the comments of others in discussion with her, you’ll get the high points.

  436. 436
    Inaji

    Oh freaking fantastic. I just lost my job. 5 years of giving to them and what do I get? Jesus Christ.

    Oh Seth, that seriously sucks. I’m so sorry. Let us know if we can help.

  437. 437
    Inaji

    Well, cue the whiny white people showing up in the newsstand thread. *sigh*

  438. 438
    Pteryxx

    Check Avicenna’s latest for the pit’s new low.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongods/2013/08/28/faux-rape-accusations-and-richard-sanderson/

  439. 439
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Crip Dyke @435

    Oh. Ah well, it’s just as well, seeing as how the link is borked.

  440. 440
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Pteryxx, I was just about to link to that post.

    Caine, in light of this, I am sorry that I jokingly said you should talk to Richard Sanderson on twitter as punishment.

  441. 441
  442. 442
    Inaji

    Janine:

    Caine, in light of this, I am sorry that I jokingly said you should talk to Richard Sanderson on twitter as punishment.

    Pffft, don’t worry about it. I’m no stranger to uberassholes.

  443. 443
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    sethmassine
    Shit, that sucks.

  444. 444
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    And Pitchguest drops in to Avicenna’s post.

    Same old hand waving bullshit.

    Was funny when John Scalzi gave him the mallet at his blog last week.

  445. 445
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Sorry, sethmachine

    The rest of you, have fun with poor, poor Dominic Hicks, I’m off to bed. I had too much excitement for one day and the bell rings early…

  446. 446
    Inaji

    Janine:

    Was funny when John Scalzi gave him the mallet at his blog last week.

    Oh gods, that was a thing of pure beauty. Although that dress really wasn’t Scalzi’s colour at all. :D

  447. 447
    Nightjar

    sethmassine, I’m so sorry. I second Cerberus in asking: are you going to be okay?

  448. 448
    LykeX

    @sethmassine
    That sucks. Hope you can work it out and a pox on their houses!

  449. 449
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    Fuck. Paypal just called me. I might be in trouble for my bleg. It sounds like they won’t take away the donations already received, but might make me change the donation type, which I really hope is the case, because I’ve already started using the help to make sure the impending bills and rent get paid.

    I really really hope it’s going to be okay. I just started to enjoy feeling safe.

  450. 450
    Inaji

    Ogvorbis! Jingle bells, traditional drums, rock ‘n’ roll, Indian style:

    We Live

    Reservation of Education

  451. 451
    The Mellow Monkey

    XIT! ♥ Thanks for sharing the links, Caine.

  452. 452
    Inaji

    MM:

    XIT! ♥

    I know! Got Silent Warrior playing around ear bleed level right now. :D

  453. 453
    Inaji

    Ogvorbis!

    And beautiful jingle bells here: Color Nature Gone.

  454. 454
  455. 455
    believerskeptic

    Regarding this FTB blog post that has 28 whopping comments—

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongods/2013/07/15/we-dont-have-a-problem-nope-not-at-all/

    —I responded as follows.

    I post it here, where Pharyngula regulars (which is to say, followers of white male PZ Myers) will actually see it, rather than, say, on a blog written by a black woman or something.

    * * *

    If someone here on FTB starts a very hypothetical, very academic, “Gosh, does white privilege really exist?” sort of conversation, it will get 200+ comments.

    But a story like this that confronts a real, bona-fide example of racism in the atheist community? (Like Sally Strange suggests, I take the source at its word— it’s so not implausible for racist atheists to exist.) 28 lousy comments.

    It’s almost like people at FTB (Pharyngula in particular) like to engage in a lot of academic, philosophical masturbation as they try to one-up each other playing “language gotcha” (all the while, constantly using ableist language— people are always whining [though they could have depression], or being blind to an argument [as though actual blind people make it a practice to be willfully ignorant] of which they’re not aware) rather than confront examples of real racism.

    So, what the fuck, FTB regulars? If this picture (and, despite the fact that the link no longer works, you can still find it via a google archive) were equally heinous from a misogynist standpoint, there would be 200+ posts, full of torches-and-pitchforks righteous anger, ready to doxx this idiot and send him/her packing from the internet for good and all.

    But, yawn, this is racism. And racism isn’t really our issue here. Neither is ableism. Neither is group mental coercion. Sure, we pay lip service here at the FTB— we always throw “racism” on that list— it’s always #1, 2 or 3 along with misogyny and homophobia— and lord knows, we’re ready to engage with a fine philosophical discussion about hypothetical racism against hypothetical minority people, especially if it entails precious opportunities to advance in the neverending “FTB Gotcha Contest.” (Oooh, he said “don’t be a peckerhead”— RUSH RUSH RUSH to be the very, very first point out that “peckerhead” is gendered! Gotcha! Yawn.)

    Faced with an ugly, actual example of real racism? FTB folds its tent. 28 miserable posts since July.

    So where are the torches and pitchforks? Let’s doxx this idiot and send him/her packing from the internet for good and all. What do you say?

    I get that PZ’s horde is a nice, comfy place for a lot of people, but PZ isn’t the only blog on here. If the well-meaning (and remember, intentions are not magic) PZ horde is so committed to anti-racism, why does Siviku Hutchinson’s essay— the most recent essay on Black Skeptics— have at this writing a double-digit comment count? PZ’s cartoon on the theoretical existence of white privilege gets triple-digit posts in a day, but the most recent Black Skeptics article on FTB requires a week to get 68 whopping comments (I count 96 if you count the replies to OPs).

    It couldn’t have anything to do with PZ being a white man and Siviku Hutchinson being a black woman, could it? Gosh, could some of your reading and posting interests be informed by racism and sexism? The gotcha’s on the other foot now, isn’t it?

    How about some of you well-meaning (but intentions aren’t magic) FTB regulars stop having hypothetical discussions about hypothetical black people, and start reading and responding to the black people that actually exist right here on FTB?

  456. 456
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Pteryxx

    Cross-posted from Avicenna’s blog (I think I am still in moderation there):

    ” …

    Sad to hear about what you have gone through. [rhetorical] What motivated him to do this…?

    Perhaps best answered in his own words:

    Now they have set out their standards, use their standards against them. When they have an article in Slate, or whatever rag sees fit to publish them, hit their boards and inform other readers of their past behaviour. – Richard Sanderson

    Linky.

    He is pissed off that “past behaviour” is brought up, and not simply letting bygones be bygones. This rather than calling the behaviour into question or condemning it.

    …”

  457. 457
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    believerskeptic:
    Take your smug shit someone else Captain holier than none.
    Also, your entire post is loaded with assumtions based on lack of comments in one thread? I am sure there is no bias there.
    Smug shithead.

  458. 458
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    sethmassine:
    I know all too well how it feels to be fired from a long time job. I am so sorry.

  459. 459
    The Mellow Monkey

    How about some of you well-meaning (but intentions aren’t magic) FTB regulars stop having hypothetical discussions about hypothetical black people, and start reading and responding to the black people that actually exist right here on FTB?

    What the fuck? Do you know that there are non-hypothetical people of color commenting right here on Pharyngula? A bunch of us were posting about our own experiences with racism and bullshit white allies just today, in fact!

    The number of comments on Pharyngula posts are rarely a measure of how much people care about PZ. (Sorry, PZ.) They’re a reflection of a) the large established community here that has grown over many years and b) how many shitheads come in and say stupid stuff and regulars counter them. It’s good to counter them at other blogs too, but the rules and moderation are also different there. Horde methods aren’t actually encouraged on all blogs.

    And we’re not having hypothetical discussions about hypothetical black people. We’re fighting back against assholes who try to erase and silence us and our fellow commenters. For example, people who assume all discussions about racism are solely about black people.

  460. 460
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ sethmassine

    {hugs proffered}

    @ John Morales

    Yeah, the government¹ here has said it will stop the harvesting of organs from prisoners this year (which is already illegal, go figure!). I am much afeared that the unscrupulous will simply start to find new targets, such as children.

    ¹ They are like a tardigrade riding its battle-rat across the frozen tundra. The appearance of control, in such situations, is but an illusion.

  461. 461
    chigau (違う)

    believerskeptic
    Since there are (at least) two people commenting under that ‘nym, please identify which one you are.
    I am ready to send an alert.

  462. 462
    SallyStrange

    it’s so not implausible for racist atheists to exist

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *snif*

    Hee hee…

    You’re out of your element. Shut the fuck up.

  463. 463
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    believerskeptic:
    Wait.
    Not done yet you assclam.

    Do you think everyone here sits on their ass reading every blog entry by every FTBer and we have all chosen to ignore a thread on racism?
    Seriously?
    You are that hurt that your insensitive comments were called out?
    You are so deeply offended that people insulted you-citing your depression as some sort of +1 Shield from Criticism – that now you blame people for not commenting on other blogs?
    What people choose to do with their time is their own you arrogant fuckface. You do not get to dictate how people spend it. It is great that you condemn racism. Many people (save StevoR, natch) do as well. That you haven’t seen it means less than nothing diddums.

    For my part, I do not follow Avicenna much. Not out of dislike, but bc there is only so much time in the day, and only so many blogs I can reasonably follow. I follow Pharyngula the most bc of the culture here, where I feel welcome, safe, and among people I like. Thats not to say nothing like that could not be forged at Avi’s blog-though having the Lounge and Thunderdome adds greatly, IMHO, to the atmosphere here-just that it has not yet.
    The other reason I do not is that my commenting capacity is limited on my phone. I am much faster on a keyboard and if/when I get net access back, I am likely to comment on more blogs.

    But all of that is, frankly, none of your business.
    I do not need to justify myself to you Mr “morally superior bc I totes do not drink alcohol and do not use language that theists long ago labelled taboo”.

    Btw, if you did a search around Pharyngula, you would find many of us involved in threads condemning racism and criticizing those who spout racist shit. The shit with JT and earlier this year with Zimmerman are but two examples. To say nothing about one current thread (which I have not commented in bc I am reading the thread and lurking so I can learn more).

    Not all of us have a podcast to name drop in our commentary, so we will never be as cool as you. Rock on out of here and I hope the door leaves an imprint on your ass.

  464. 464
    John Morales

    believerskeptic:

    I post it here, where Pharyngula regulars (which is to say, followers of white male PZ Myers) will actually see it

    Your parenthetical is no less revealing than it is wrong.

    It’s almost like [blah]

    Therefore it isn’t like blah. Duh.

    So where are the torches and pitchforks? Let’s doxx this idiot and send him/her packing from the internet for good and all. What do you say?

    There were never any outside your fevered imagination, nor does your straw-monster stand up to any scrutiny.

    How about some of you well-meaning (but intentions aren’t magic) FTB regulars stop having hypothetical discussions about hypothetical black people, and start reading and responding to the black people that actually exist right here on FTB?

    Name one black person who has not been read or responded-to right here on FTB.

    (You’re blathering)

  465. 465
    Amphiox

    believerskeptic @455;

    I’m sorry, but word salad is served at the OTHER table.

  466. 466
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    Treadruptured and likely to remain so for the time being. However– theophontes: maybe a $20-30 turtle cam is the best bet, just in case either 1) the turtle comes back or 2) the turtle doesn’t come back. I need to figure out a way to fasten he cam on as well. Luckily, we also have a turtle living in the house ha we can practice on. I say we because I think my wife is on board. At first she though the idea was daffy, but I got her to see how cool this could be.

  467. 467
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Believerskeptic:
    I see you are attempting to revise history in the Guy thread.
    I seem to recall criticizing YOU for your arrogant comments about being superior to those who drink and use harsh words.

    The more I read from you, the less I want to.
    You are doing a great job as Reigning Smugnoramus.

  468. 468
    Inaji

    How about some of you well-meaning (but intentions aren’t magic) FTB regulars stop having hypothetical discussions about hypothetical black people, and start reading and responding to the black people that actually exist right here on FTB?

    Goodness, you just get more and more assholish, don’t ya? You’re lecturing a number of people of colour, right here, in this thread. Golly, it’s ever so special that you are able to divine what colour we all are from text. That’s quite the talent, you should hit up James Randi for that million bucks, Cupcake.

  469. 469
    Inaji

    MM:

    A bunch of us were posting about our own experiences with racism and bullshit white allies just today, in fact!

    A fact which might have been noticed if BS ever bothered to read a thread, rather than simply using them as an advert opportunity spamming his own stuff, ’cause hey, he’s the center of the ‘verse. Didn’t even bother to skim the comments here in Tdome, or he might have noticed that Pteryxx linked Avicenna’s post earlier.

    Of course, Avicenna’s post is about the ongoing slime tactics regarding Shermer and harassment issues, etc. I’m terribly surprised* that was utterly missed by BS.
     
    *Insert sarcasm tag here.

  470. 470
    Inaji

    There is one thing I’d love to see Scalzi blog about – the proliferation of authors who never use the word boy to describe or refer to an adult male, while always using the word girl to describe or refer to an adult female. It’s driving me batshit. I just started Benedict Jacka’s Verus series, and right at the start, what do I read? “She was a girl in her twenties…”

    Arrrrggggh.

  471. 471
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Even when I was a tween in the late seventies, “September Morn” by Neil Diamond drove me up the wall.

    Look at what you’ve done
    You’ve become a grown up girl.

    Extra creepy.

  472. 472
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I had fun today. EG’s pal, AmbrosiaX blamed the BlockBot for getting the transphobic lawyer, Cathy Brennan Twitter account suspended. I replied that it was suspended because Brennan actively harasses transgendered people.

    I was told I do not know what I am talking about. And that she has Cathy Brennan’s number. Therefore, I should shut up about the issue.

    After more words were exchanged, and I called her smug. She says she cannot be smug because she is right.

    She then changes tactics, says she could tell I am a good person but that I am misguided. That I should learn to think more clearly.

    What the fuck is this shit.

    And for the record, Cathy Brennan active harasses transgendered women. She wants human rights denied for them. She tries to dox people who do not use their name. And she will dox teens to their schools.

    Yes, she is actively harmful.

    And yet there are people who are whining that her right to free speech has been curtail. As if being cut off from twitter could stop her from doing the harm she has been doing before there was Twitter.

    Fucking idiots.

  473. 473
    chigau (違う)

    I am very close to my 40th year of telling people NOT to refer to me as a ‘girl’.
    *sigh*

  474. 474
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Caine:
    Related to your #470-
    I have come to notice how many people refer to women as girls, but not men as boys. I also noticed -months ago – my tendency to do the same.
    Training oneself to stop using words or phrases aint easy. I am at the point that I still say ‘girl’, but catch and correct myself. I hope to have ‘ladies’ or ‘women’ as my default in the near future.

  475. 475
    chigau (違う)

    Tony!
    Don’t bother using ‘ladies’.

  476. 476
    SallyStrange

    Eh, I’m kind of coming around to “ladies,” though I can’t deny, it’s hard for a dude to say “ladies” without “gentlemen” and not sound slightly creepy. YMMV.

  477. 477
    chigau (違う)

    girl – boy
    woman – man
    lady – gentleman
    gal – guy

    I have developed a nasty habit of belching whenever somone refers to me as a ‘lady’.

  478. 478
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Oh, sorry. I was unaware of any problem with ‘ladies’. Anyone have a handy link ao I can read up on this?

  479. 479
    chigau (違う)

    Tony!
    got no links
    ‘lady’, like ‘gentleman’, is a value judgement.

  480. 480
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ AE

    “Turtlecam” sounds waaaay cool. Next I shall make a little camera harness for Ms Molly (and then feed her some catnip!)

    The cams I have found to date have been a bit of a disappointment. They record erratically and for some reason can’t be edited or uploaded to youtube without issues. There are about 20-odd different types of 808 cameras, all with different electronics. Some (#11, #16) are apparently excellent. Others, like my #19, are complete crap. You’ll have to wait a few weeks ’til I am back from Europe though.

    I’ll keep looking.

  481. 481
    mildlymagnificent

    Tony – lady is generally only used in places I frequent for expressions like ladyparts, ladygardens and fluffy pink lady brainz.

    Otherwise it’s used in public as part of “Ladies and gentlemen” in formal introductions to speeches and such. (Or when a couple of people I know are being silly, “Officers and their ladies, sergeants and their wives, other ranks and their women.” pretending they’re writing invitations to a mess dinner in mid 19th century India.)

  482. 482
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    I’m not very fond of being called a lady since, unless it’s a “ladies and gentlemen…” situation, it’s usually making a point out of my “ladiness” to indicate I am expected to behave or look a certain way (put on make-up/wait until someone opens a door for me/stare into excel tables even though computers need to be carried to the garage/…).

  483. 483
    Lofty

    What a waste of tomatoes.
    And Aussies top the list of ticket purchasers. Doh.

  484. 484
    mildlymagnificent

    Hangs head in shame.

    I’m afraid that my family contributed two Australian daughter participants in this stunt a few years ago.

    /confession, contrition mode

  485. 485
    LykeX

    @believerskeptic

    You’re using comments as a proxy for interest, which is highly problematic. First, because not everyone who reads will comment and whether they’ll comment or not may depend on topic, writing style of the blog post, blog commenting policies and any other number of confounding factors.
    Second, because blogs have wildly different readership, some getting thousands of hits daily, others only a handful. In this particular case, you’ve decided to compare two blogs that most definitely have different numbers of readers. This exacerbates the problems mentioned above.

    My point is, on the bare facts, your comparison is bullshit. You simply can’t draw those conclusions from the data you present.

    Furthermore, your complaints are obviously not genuine. This isn’t about the culture of Pharyngula. This is about you. This is about you still having a stick up your ass about having been called out (very lightly, I might add, despite your continuing attempts to describe it as a witchhunt) on an ill-considered comment.

    I’ll say it again (for the fourth time, I think?) if you had simply accepted the correction and moved on, this would all have been forgotten by now. You’re remembered as the arrogant asshat not because of your original comment, but because of your following torrent of bullshit.

    I find it personally offensive when people try to use their illness or other problems as a way to avoid taking responsibility for the harm they do. You’ve been doing that non-stop since this started.
    I’ve even agreed not to use the term “whine” if you don’t want me to. That’s why I referred to you as an arrogant asshat instead.

    If you think an important post has been overlooked, then by all means drop a comment in the ‘dome saying “hey, check this out.” However, do try to avoid the temptation of, once again, making it all about you.

  486. 486
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    And for the record, Cathy Brennan active harasses transgendered women.

    Completely ignorant as to who Brennan is, I decided I should cure that.

    knowledge is power and all that but, not so sure I’m glad i did.

    reading one of her blogs was… aggravating, to say the least.

  487. 487
    carlie

    believerskeptic, you may want to check this out. No, really.

  488. 488
    carlie

    I thought Cathy Brennan was banned from twitter? She’s still there.

  489. 489
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I am very close to my 40th year of telling people NOT to refer to me as a ‘girl’.

    Portia Story:
    Elderly male patient: “You girls are doing a great job, I’ll have to have you come back another time.”
    Me, casting sidelong glance at female paramedic: “They don’t let children drive ambulances, sir.”

    I pretty often resort to feigned ignorance about what they mean when they use “girl” to describe an adult woman.

    I find “young lady” is just as often used in a diminishing way. Like, that’s how a principal addresses a second grader.

  490. 490
    believerskeptic

    I’m wondering if today’s the day.

    I’m wondering if today is the day when one of the Pharyngula regulars will have the intellectual honesty to admit that the motivation for the Neverending Gotcha Contest taking place here is not so much to help others realize the hidden prejudices that are encoded into language so that we’ll all be better people for it, but rather instead to feel smug and superior to someone else. I wonder, then, if the person who can admit that could also admit that this attraction— the feeling smug and superior to others— is not so different from the self-same motivation that attracts our libertarian counterparts to movement atheism.

    I’m wondering if today’s the day. Probably not.

  491. 491
    Nick Gotts

    I’m wondering if today’s the day believerskeptic will stop being a brain-ablatingly tedious, self-important arsehole.

    I’m wondering if today’s the day. Probably not.

  492. 492
    Lofty

    I wonder if teh squidly overlord wants BS spouting BS around anymore.

  493. 493
    Howard Bannister

    Believerskeptic, can you answer me one simple question:

    Is today the day that you admit that your crusade against the lesswrong site is about YOU feeling smug and superior?

  494. 494
    NightShadeQueen, resident nutcase

    This link showed up in my fb feed baring only the title of “15 hottest sideboobs at the VMAs”

    …given that the friends sharing it generally weren’t prone to sharing shitty articles, I clicked on it.

    ….It’s actually excellent. And hilarious.

  495. 495
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    BS caught me. Today is the day.

    I enjoy smugness so much that I’m willfully pursue it at the cost of being called an uptight bitch, belittled as an “extreme feminist” and generally dismissed by a lot of people. There is no benefit to outweigh these costs incurred by calling out assholes, no benefit save the satisfaction of feeling superior. None. Whatsoever.

    It feels good to be honest.

  496. 496
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’m wondering if today is the day when one of the Pharyngula regulars will have the intellectual honesty

    Maybe today is the day you show the intellectual honesty of admitting you are nothing but a bad troll with nothing cogent to contribute.

  497. 497
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’m = I’ll.

    Sigh. I’m only morally superior to others, not typographically.

  498. 498
    Lofty

    Sigh. I’m only morally superior to others, not typographically.

    Good enough for me.

  499. 499
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Sigh. I’m only morally superior to others, not typographically.

    If it helps: I read “orally”

  500. 500
    Lofty

    NightShadeQueen

    This link

    Haha, very good!

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