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Aug 14 2013

Five year olds asking questions! Teenagers going to the bathroom! Fox News can’t cope!

Fox News is such a joke, and Michelle Malkin is demented. They are now horrified at passage of bill in California.

“There is such an impetus to pander to political correctness,” Malkin explained. “I think this is social engineering run amuck. Apparently according to the bill that was signed, transgender is defined anyway they way to! As long as a child has the self-perception that they are transgender, they will be able to go into any bathroom that they want. Really, I think it’s a usurpation of local, parental and community control.”

“Five-year-olds are now exposed to — I don’t know — ‘What is transgender? Hey mommy, what is transgender? Am I transgender?’” co-host Eric Bolling asked, adding that it was “very scary, slippery slope.”

“And also, we know that kids like to pull pranks,” co-host Gretchen Carlson pointed out. “Can you imagine now, the boys want to go into the girls bathroom and the girls want to go into the boys bathroom, and they can just say, ‘Oh, well, I was transgender for the moment.’”

So if a person identifies as transgender, which is not something you can casually do on a moment’s notice, they’d rather force them to conform to expected gender identities? Because that’s exactly what this is about. The bill is primarily about ending stereotypes and giving equal support to all genders. It’s all about making schools supportive places for everyone, not just those to conform to majority norms.

Read Assembly Bill 1266 for yourself. The Fox News idiots haven’t.

221.5. (a) It is the policy of the state that elementary and secondary school classes and courses, including nonacademic and elective classes and courses, be conducted, without regard to the sex of the pupil enrolled in these classes and courses.

(b) A school district may not prohibit a pupil from enrolling in any class or course on the basis of the sex of the pupil, except a class subject to Chapter 5.6 (commencing with Section 51930) of Part 28 of Division 4 of Title 2.

(c) A school district may not require a pupil of one sex to enroll in a particular class or course, unless the same class or course is also required of a pupil of the opposite sex.

(d) A school counselor, teacher, instructor, administrator, or aide may not, on the basis of the sex of a pupil, offer vocational or school program guidance to a pupil of one sex that is different from that offered to a pupil of the opposite sex or, in counseling a pupil, differentiate career, vocational, or higher education opportunities on the basis of the sex of the pupil counseled. Any school personnel acting in a career counseling or course selection capacity to a pupil shall affirmatively explore with the pupil the possibility of careers, or courses leading to careers, that are nontraditional for that pupil’s sex. The parents or legal guardian of the pupil shall be notified in a general manner at least once in the manner prescribed by Section 48980, in advance of career counseling and course selection commencing with course selection for grade 7 so that they may participate in the counseling sessions and decisions.

(e) Participation in a particular physical education activity or sport, if required of pupils of one sex, shall be available to pupils of each sex.

(f) A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.

If you experience panic on seeing someone who doesn’t look exactly like you in a public restroom, the problem lies with you, not them. If they’re there to intimidate the users, sure, there’s not good — but that’s not at all a transgender issue. I remember the boy’s room as the place where you had to be wary of bullying by people who identified as boys, so that’s a concern that exists independently of recognizing the reality of transgender students.

65 comments

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  1. 1
    David Marjanović
    “[...] Really, I think it’s a usurpation of local, parental and community control.”

    Translation: children are the property of their parents, their community and their region.

    Even though the latter two sound more like communism.

  2. 2
    Louis

    Why do all the “questions” and “complaints” from Fox News folks and their chuckling funster fellows basically boil down to “Waaaaaah! We’re going to have to treat people different from us like humans too!”?

    Louis

  3. 3
    Amphiox

    More 5-year olds asking “what is transgender?” and more parents answering that question is a GOOD thing.

  4. 4
    kantalope

    Children may not know the term transgender but that won’t change the fact that they do know the difference between boys and girls and may want to act like one or the other.

    Children also don’t (shouldn’t) know the words oncology, benign, and malignant – but not knowing something doesn’t make it not so.

    If not knowing something was protective in some way – faux news people would be bulletproof now wouldn’t they.

  5. 5
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    In that one case of a well educated boy who is familiar with laws and regulations regarding the treatment of trans individuals, but is also a little asshole who just wants to get into the girls’ bathroom… teachers should give him a stern talking to about not bending rules by way of mocking people’s identities, possibly combined with some voluntary work for a trans rights group if it exists in the school/area.

    Now that that one case is out of the way, could we stop pretending that kids will declare themselves trans just for the fun of it, since trans individuals are treated so well by society? Thank you.

  6. 6
    unbound

    To paraphrase Louis CK, “A child can’t be transgender because YOU don’t want to talk to your ugly child for fuckin’ five minutes?”

  7. 7
    Jackie

    WTF?
    My five year old had no issue with finding out one of her adult friends is transgender. Neither did any of my other kids. If you are not trained to think that anything but gender binary bs is weird or wrong, understanding and acceptance come easily. It isn’t going to hurt the cis-kids to learn to accept and even appreciate diversity. On the other hand, the trans-kids are going to suffer if the other kids don’t learn to accept them. This is the same argument the right wingers made for trying to keep anti-bullying measures out of schools because it meant that the kids would be told that gay people exist and aren’t monsters.

    But let’s be honest, that’s what these tranphobic assholes want. They want to keep the world a dangerous place for people they don’t like and they want to maintain their privileged position in society. That’s what this is about, not concern for the kids.

  8. 8
    Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion

    We can’t believe the accusations of victims of sexual assault recognise transgendered people’s rights because then people will abuse the system by lying! People will make false rape accusations against others to ruin their lives lie about being transgendered to… go into the WRONG TOILETS!!?!!one!

    Oh, and of course – it’s just to protect people from liars in loos. Because it’s the fault of trans* folk that people will now be assaulted in toilets. Because… reasons. or something.

    There’s something fundamentally broken in these people’s brains. Probably the brain itself. Remove, scrub, replace, I recommend.

  9. 9
    thinkfree83

    Call me old-fashioned, but shouldn’t you mind your own business in a public bathroom, regardless of how you identify? I know that women’s bathrooms all contain stalls, so how can you tell who has what anyway?

  10. 10
    Jackie

    Story:
    This summer, my kids attended day camp. On the first day a little boy locked himself in the girl’s bathroom. He had smuggled a pair of his sisters shoes to camp and wanted to wear them. He got in trouble.

    Now, maybe that was his idea of a prank, but I don’t think so. I don’t know if he’s trans or just liked the shoes and thought no one would look for him in the ladies room. I could not get involved in any way. I told my kids to have his back if anybody teased him. I wish there was more than that to offer kids who need help being understood by their peers.

    I’d love for these things to be talked about in schools. I think we could save lives that way.

  11. 11
    harbo

    I don’t have a gender specific dunny in my house, so why do we need them elsewhere?

  12. 12
    carlie

    I have been using women’s bathrooms for several decades now. I have never, not once, ever, seen any part of a woman in a women’s bathroom that one would not also see outside of that bathroom. I do not understand the bathroom panic stuff.

  13. 13
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    “…kids are going to feel from the beginning of the school year that their privacy is being violated”

    Only because you’ll tell them it is, you fucking bigoted pillock.

    As long as a child has the self-perception that they are transgender, they will be able to go into any bathroom that they want.

    Lol, nope.

    “Five-year-olds are now exposed to — I don’t know — ‘What is transgender? Hey mommy, what is transgender? Am I transgender?’”

    “Oh noes! Parents will actually have to do some fucking parenting and explain to their kids what transgender means! Big Government! Socialism! Communism! Nazism! ism ism ism!!!11ELEBENTY!!11!!”

    Gah, these people are so fucking irritating.

  14. 14
    timgueguen

    Same old story. Being straight is the only right and correct way to be, yet it’s apparently so fragile that the not-straight can easily replace it by its mere presence.

  15. 15
    franko

    How nice to read an assembly bill that understands the difference in meaning between the words “sex” and “gender”.

  16. 16
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @David Marjanovic

    Yeah, I had similar problems with that line.

  17. 17
    Jackie

    Thumper,
    Exactly! What’s wrong with a kid asking “Am I transgender”?

    That’s the right wing’s biggest fear over teaching tolerance for lesbian/bi/gay folks too. They believe that they can suppress any natural tendencies in their own kids, so long as they keep them ignorant until they are old enough to be taught to be ashamed and afraid.

    Come to think of it, they seem to use a similar strategy with religion.

  18. 18
    Erin

    @timguegen

    This has nothing whatsoever to do with being straight. We’re talking about trans* people here, not gay people (although those sets do intersect, their symmetric difference is nonempty.)

  19. 19
    jamessweet

    There was a time in the past that I was somewhat sympathetic to the “people might lie about being transgender” argument against trans bathroom rights. It seems prima facie plausible (at least to me), so I felt that there was a difficult balancing act between the legitimate rights of an oppressed minority and the potential for abuse.

    However, other places in the world have already crossed this bridge, and what they’ve found is that in practice it’s just not really a problem. Despite whatever prima facie plausibility the argument may have had for some people (myself included), it’s now been shown to be a weak argument.

    Of course, Fox News thrives on ignorance and “common sense” arguments, so it’s no surprise this has not penetrated their awareness.

  20. 20
    WellYesYouMay

    It isn’t even a difficult conversation to have with kids. The younger they are, the easier it is. My three year old doesn’t know the term transgender, but we’ve been over the concept (she’s very interested in who’s a boy and who’s a girl right now). She doesn’t know the word gay (that I know of), but she knows that some kids have two mommies or two daddies. She’s never questioned it.

    Gender and sexuality was easy. Now explaining what happened to our cat that died when she was just old enough to remember it? THAT was a hard conversation.

  21. 21
    Eamon Knight

    Most of the quoted regs are about gender-equal access to curriculum and courses — and I’m surprised (though I shouldn’t be) that it even needs to be said.

    When I was in junior high (c.1970) it was a bold new thing that the boys and girls both got home ec AND shop. Then I moved districts to a less progressive high school — and in 1975 my GF was disallowed by the principal to take electronics, despite the fact that the teacher was quite willing for her to be in the class. She got her revenge a couple of years later, when we dropped in to the school for a visit one day in June, by which time she was halfway through her EE program — at MIT. And the teacher got to tell the principal, “Remember that girl you wouldn’t let take my electronics class? Well…..”

    By now, gender-blind educational options ought to be taken for granted.

  22. 22
    Inaji

    I don’t know — ‘What is transgender?

    There’s your problem, Mr. Bolling, you’re ignorant! Christ, I loathe these assholes who treat having to actually learn something outside of their comfort zone as the ultimate anathema.

  23. 23
    samurai

    PZ, you “If you experience panic on seeing someone who doesn’t look exactly like you in a public restroom, the problem lies with you, not them.” is a nice start for a blame-game.
    Yea, always the person who thinks different from me/has different values than I have is the person who is wrong.

  24. 24
    poxyhowzes

    As someone who saw his mother succumb to a medically diagnosed condition called “dementia,” I’m uncomfortable having that adjective used to describe Malkin.

    I could accept “sick,” even though that conjures images of Dr. Sen. Bill Frist ‘diagnosing’ Terry Schiavo from his Senate-Floor consulting rooms. I could accept “(speaks/behaves) as though she were demented,” except that I don’t think that “demented” is a very accurate description of Malkin’s speech/behavior, at least in this clip.

    I think Malkin speaks/behaves as though she were massively uninformed, and/or as though she were pushing an untrue agenda, and/or acting from a script she does not understand, and/or like a religious fundamentalist, and/or….
    — pH

    /rant

  25. 25
    Inaji

    Carlie:

    I have been using women’s bathrooms for several decades now. I have never, not once, ever, seen any part of a woman in a women’s bathroom that one would not also see outside of that bathroom.

    Neither have I. Amazin’, ennit?

    I do not understand the bathroom panic stuff.

    I don’t grok it myself. Even if you do see stuff you don’t normally see outside a bathroom, so what? As for male side, if there’s a panic about seeing something you don’t want to see, do away with the urinal business and go all stalls. There, it’s all private now.

  26. 26
    karmacat

    I was at an amusement park with my son who was five at the time. He took one look at the picture of a princess on the ladies restroom door and decided he would never go into a woman’s bathroom again. Five year olds really don’t want to go to other gender’s bathroom to spy on them. These people spend way to much time displacing adult wishes onto children.

  27. 27
    Inaji

    samurai:

    PZ, you “If you experience panic on seeing someone who doesn’t look exactly like you in a public restroom, the problem lies with you, not them.” is a nice start for a blame-game.

    Yea, always the person who thinks different from me/has different values than I have is the person who is wrong.

    I think you’re misinterpreting what PZ said. If a person cannot cope with anyone in a bathroom who does not conform to their idea of who belongs in said bathroom, then yes, the problem does lie with them.

  28. 28
    Jackie

    Carlie,
    I’ve expressed breast milk in a bathroom and seen women comparing areolas.
    Granted, I breast fed in public too and I’ve seen alot more nekkid bewbs outside the bathroom.

    However, that we were comfortable doing those things in a women’s only space does not mean transwomen should not be there. Transwomen are women. If a guy wants to fake trans to see some ta-tas and hear some tremendous lady-farts, I guess someone should explain to him how the internet works. Because thanks to the miracle of teh intrawebs, you can do those things in your own home. It just seems highly unlikely that that’s a thing that would be a problem, whereas transwomen and girls needing a safe women’s only space to pee too seems like a given.

    I know that women going to the bathroom together is an old joke, but one of the reasons we do that is because we don’t want to get hurt. If I’m alone, I check the stalls for Ted Bundy wanna-bes. The “bathroom rapist” is for me as an adult, what the closet monster was to me as a kid who read too much Steven King. The difference being that monsters don’t exist and rapists do. So, I understand that phobia up to a point. That point is where transwomen (and men) deserve some fucking respect and safety too. They are not a threat. They are the one’s who are most at risk. They need to be shown some support and solidarity.

  29. 29
    skeptifem

    do these assholes even remember what school was like? as if someone would risk getting their ass kicked to identify as trans for a few minutes.

  30. 30
    magistramarla

    Jackie’s comment at #7 says it all.

  31. 31
    Jackie

    karmacat,
    For my boys the ladies room is where little boys go potty with their moms. As they are sure that they are big boys now, they refuse to use it anymore. Now, one is barely able to open the doors alone and he has to leap up onto some counter tops to reach the soap, but it’s worth it to feel like a very mature lad that does not need his mommy with him to use the bathroom. For them it is more about independence than gender, but gender is certainly a factor.

  32. 32
    Quodlibet

    These clowns would have conniptions should they visit many colleges and universities, where gender-neutral dorms and bathrooms are the norm, rather than the exception.

    I know it would cost more money than the usual male-only and female-only arrangement, but a reasonable solution seems to be to offer three restrooms: male only, female only, and gender-neutral. Sometimes the gender-neutral facilities are labeled as “family” restrooms, I guess so that parents can accompany their kids to the bathroom regardless of gender. But would these also be a safe place for trans* folks? I hope so. Until then, I will continue to use public restrooms as I always have: Mind my own business, afford privacy to others, and be aware of any person who seems threatening, regardless of gender. (Probably theft is a greater problem in public restrooms than assault. I notice that in newer facilities, the hooks where one can hang a backpack or purse in the stall are off to the side rather than right over the top of the door, right within reach of anyone outside the stall!)

  33. 33
    Jackie

    Wellyesyoumay,

    She doesn’t know the word gay

    That’s funny. I just recently told my kids that word, because someone had used it around them. I realized that they knew that people could date who they wanted, regardless of gender. But, they didn’t know there was a name for same sex attraction. It was a good conversation and it happened easily over dinner. So, what are these people afraid of?

  34. 34
    gmcard

    kantalope @ 4:

    Children may not know the term transgender but that won’t change the fact that they do know the difference between boys and girls and may want to act like one or the other.

    With regards to kids, education, and gender, what is the horde’s thoughts and advice on how to discuss with children what might seem like two conflicting gender issues–that of transgender and, like kantalope states, knowing the difference between boys and girls and wanting to act like one or the other, and the breaking down of socially enforced gender roles, such that “act like one or the other” doesn’t make sense.

  35. 35
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Jackie #17

    They seem to think if the child has no word for the feelings, then they cannot experience said feelings. They don’t seem to realise that words are just set sounds used to describe existing phenomena, rather than magic spells which, once said, poof said phenomena into existence.

  36. 36
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @gmcard

    How old are the kids? I would say start by explaining the difference between “sex” and “gender” and talk about how the two aren’t necessarily the same, but I guess that would depend on how capable you think the kids are of understanding that.

  37. 37
    Ibis3, Let's burn some bridges

    @David #1

    I think your translator’s just a bit off. I think “community” here is a stand-in for Church, not region.

  38. 38
    Ibis3, Let's burn some bridges

    @kantalope #4

    Um. It seems like your comparing being transgender to having cancer. Did I misread that?

  39. 39
    David Marjanović

    do these assholes even remember what school was like?

    Uh, yes. They were the bullies. Next question?

    I think your translator’s just a bit off. I think “community” here is a stand-in for Church, not region.

    Good point. By “region” I mean the “local” part, and I actually planned to write “town” there, but I hadn’t actually thought about churches. European… privilege.

  40. 40
    nathanaelnerode

    It’s sad that an *anti-sex-discrimination* bill has to be passed. But it’s extremely overdue.

    What’s worse is that it’s not even complete. What’s the exception allowing sex discrimnation for a “class subject to Chapter 5.6 (commencing with Section 51930) of Part 28 of Division 4 of Title 2″ mean?

  41. 41
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    As long as a child has the self-perception that they are transgender, they will be able to go into any bathroom that they want.

    BWAHAHA! Oh, wow. “Able to go into any bathroom that they want”. That’s rich.

    I mean, A) Why would that be a terrible thing? OH NOES! TRANS* PEOPLE! PEEING! IN THE BATHROOM OF THEIR CHOICE! AIEEEEE!

    And B) Bullshit they are. One of the first things you end up trying to train yourself in when you’re trans* is the art of never ever needing to go to bathroom in public. Because those gendered restroom spaces are a nightmare. Even in “progressive areas”, going into the correct restroom nets one a huge amount of awkward stares and people on the verge of making a fuss that can turn ugly at any minute. And going into the wrong restroom is not only a guaranteed massive gender dysphoria trigger, but also risky as fuck in its own regard, especially if you’re all done up in a gender performance intended to make it easier for others to read you as the correct gender.

    And that’s the “good” areas. Rest stops in the middle of rural nowhere? Fucking terrifying. I nearly had a panic attack breakdown at one during a long road trip.

    And it’s the fact that we gender our fucking bathrooms that’s the problem. Too many people feel comfortable “policing” the space from what they perceive as interlopers and those who blur lines are seen as extra threatening and inherently frightening even though they are just trying to pee.

    I had a poor intersex kid in a recent class who always ended up going to the bathroom alone in a radically different time than anyone else because already they knew that there was danger in not being perfectly gender conforming in a restroom space.

    And another thing, for all the fear and bullshit, there hasn’t been one case of an abuser or rapist “donning women’s clothing” in order to abuse, assault, or rape those in the women’s bathroom. You know what they do when they want to assault someone in the women’s bathroom? They just go the fuck in, dressed as their cis-male selves. Because those doors aren’t fucking magic. A trans* person using the bathroom uses it for the same reason as everyone else. To shit and piss and wash their hands. And usually, they’ve been so trained that they’re not even going to try and make eye-contact when in there.

  42. 42
    Cerberus is working overtime at the outrage factory

    gmcard @34

    Well, one I’ve used in the past is that there are people who are boys and people who are girls. And sometimes whether they are boy or a girl doesn’t reflect what their guardians thought they were when they were little like you. Now, there are going to be a lot of people who tell you that there are certain things only boys can do and certain things only girls can do and that you’re supposed to do one thing or the other, but EVERYONE can do everything that the other can. There’s nothing a boy can do that a girl can’t do. And nothing a girl can do that a boy can’t do. And those that tell you otherwise are just trying to limit your imagination and make you think small like them. Never let them.

    Another one I’ve used in classes* where I didn’t want to derail the conversation to a long rambling conversation on trans* issues on my company’s dime, but I was asked a question about my gender performance was: “I wear skirts because I’m a girl who likes skirts. They help people tell that I’m a girl because I was born with a birth defect that gives me a lot of hair on my lips and a deep voice.”

    Which yeah, before I got discriminated out of the job where I was out, that was something incredibly valuable. Being an out trans* teacher demonstrated rather firmly that kids DO NOT GIVE A FUCK about issues of transgender and that the hate and rejecting is something that is carefully taught by society and parents.

  43. 43
    mnb0

    The day a kid says “I was a transgender for a moment” is the day that transgenders are completely socially accepted.

  44. 44
    notsont

    Exactly! What’s wrong with a kid asking “Am I transgender”?

    I once had this conversation with a person who was complaining about a boy child wearing a girls shirt. The answer which shocked me basically boiled down to “You don’t have the right to try to make my children not bigots” He tried to phrase it differently but eventually he agreed that yes that is basically what he meant. He wants his children to be bigots and if you don’t like it too bad.

  45. 45
    Inaji

    The day a kid says “I was a transgender for a moment” is the day that transgenders are completely socially accepted.

    No, it isn’t, you flaming doucheweasel of a troll. Take your assfax somewhere else.

  46. 46
    sundiver

    Rather agree with poxyhowzes’ gentle chiding of PZ’s use of the word demented to characterize the festering pile of camel snot otherwise known as Michelle Malkin. Asshole, fuckwad, shithead, and cement head are terms I would consider acceptable. Having watched a family member succumb to a non-alzheimer’s form of dementia calling an allegedly able-minded person demented just strikes me as wrong. That said, the blabbermouths at fucked noise getting their dander up over such trivial shit while dismissing travesties like two stupid wars in the mid-east is just showing how vapid their intellects are.

  47. 47
    gmcard

    Cerberus @42

    Thanks! That is helpful.

  48. 48
    Robert B.

    The sentiment “We don’t want to have to explain to our children that you exist” is horrible. It makes me feel erased just reading it, and it’s not even aimed at me or people like me (this time).

  49. 49
    Kevin Schelley

    I actually would be super freaked out if I saw someone who looked exactly like me enter the bathroom. I’d think it was some kind of delusion or something.

    Maybe it’s just me, with my male privilege and all, but I don’t really care who comes into the same bathroom that I’m in as long as they’re respectful and mind their own business. To me a public restroom is a place to take care of certain bodily functions, clean up a bit after them, and leave so the next person can use the facilities. I also tend to be rather non-social much of the time, so this might color my perceptions.

  50. 50
    reggiedunlap

    I would be all for unisex bathrooms. It would be more efficient and would nullify the issue.

    However, I see the situation in which we have sex segregation of bathroom, and locker facilities tragic without a perfect solution, particularly with showers. Some people would and do feel uncomfortable sharing with the trans individuals for the same reason that the trans individuals feel uncomfortable with the alternative arrangement. I have sympathy for both sides and don’t see how this can be resolved in a way that isn’t a problem for legitimate concerns.

  51. 51
    Naked Bunny with a Whip

    This is why conservatives are so bad at humor. They think these sorts of questions are clever and insightful, and that mocking the disadvantaged is amusing.

  52. 52
    timgueguen

    Erin, you know there’s a difference, and I know there’s a difference, but I doubt Malkin and company do. Or care if they do understand. To them it’s just another group of people who are disobeying the “natural order” of things, and who could spread their “infection” if not suppressed.

  53. 53
    diziet

    The separate bathroom thing has always bothered me. It is probably important to note that I think public nudity should be legal. In light of that, I have never heard a convincing argument for why bathrooms should be separate in the first place. As was already mentioned by Cerberus the doors aren’t magic. If someone of the opposite sex is coming in the bathroom to hurt you, they aren’t going to be stopped by a sign. And if they aren’t coming in to hurt you then what is the problem? I have only discussed this with a couple friends; so I would really appreciate it if someone could give me a good solid reason why we should gender segregate our restroom use.

  54. 54
    Guy.Tanno BonGiovanni

    I’ve tried to access the relevant parts of this bill but cannot find section 51930 online, and so ask the blogauthor, or readers who have read it, for the link to “Title 2 Division 4 Part 28 Chapter 5.6 section 51930″ (per part b, quoted above, please.)

    Thanks

  55. 55
    lochaber

    Supposedly, Malkin attended Oberlin College. Not sure what she did while she was there, as it seems she didn’t learn anything.

    Damn near every dorm has a ‘co-ed’ bathroom, and many have ‘co-ed’ showers as well.

  56. 56
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Diziet:
    Over the last few months, I have been thinking the same thing. My gut-which I fully accept is wrong at times-tells me there is nothing wrong with opening restrooms to all genders and that religion has something to do with keeping men and women separate.

  57. 57
    Lofty

    Where I live nearly all new public toilets are unisex. Each cubicle has a bit of space, a handbasin and a mirror. Outside is the rest of the world. Not exactly hard to do.

  58. 58
    khops

    “And also, we know that kids like to pull pranks,” co-host Gretchen Carlson pointed out. “Can you imagine now, the boys want to go into the girls bathroom and the girls want to go into the boys bathroom, and they can just say, ‘Oh, well, I was transgender for the moment.’”

    I’m sorry does this genius think that there is some sort of forcefield that currently keeps boys out of the girls room if they want to play pranks and vice versa? What a ridiculous objection.

  59. 59
    Anri

    PZ, you “If you experience panic on seeing someone who doesn’t look exactly like you in a public restroom, the problem lies with you, not them.” is a nice start for a blame-game.
    Yea, always the person who thinks different from me/has different values than I have is the person who is wrong.

    You have a good point there, samurai. Those people might have differently colored skin, after all!

    Oh, you didn’t mean that kind of disliking different people, you meant another kind of disliking different people.

    My bad or something.

  60. 60
    Jadehawk

    I do not understand the bathroom panic stuff.

    too much exposure to hentai based in school-settings…?
    because if that ain’t it, I got nothing.

  61. 61
    se habla espol

    “Title 2 Division 4 Part 28 Chapter 5.6 section 51930″

    According to the bill text as linked to in the article, the bill concerns the California Education Code. On the page containing the bill text we find a link named California Law. Clicking there gives a bunch of links, one of which is “Education Code (EDC)”. Clicking that link, so as to peek at the Education Code, we find a Table of Contents (bunch-of-links), wherein we spot
    TITLE 2. ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION
    §33000-§64100.
    Moving down a little, we find
    DIVISION 4. INSTRUCTION AND SERVICES §46000-§64100;
    PART 28. GENERAL INSTRUCTIONAL PROGRAMS §51000-§53303;
    CHAPTER 5.6. California Comprehensive Sexual Health and HIV/AIDS Prevention Education Act §51930-§51939.
    Alternatively, back at the bunch-of-links to the various codes, one can select EDC in the Select Code dropdown, enter 51930 in the search-box named ‘section’, and click on the search button.
    See how easy the internet is?
    The names of the various entries might be enough to answer whatever questions come up for you.
    This particular route into Calif EDC does not provide usable URLs. You get to follow their navigation (such as what I gave), or find a different edition of the EDC. IIRC, courts.ca.gov can lead to a URL-friendly version.

  62. 62
    Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    At some point soon I’ll read the comments. I got to it late b/c of busy RL. But really all I have to add:

    When my father disowned me, one of the reasons he gave was:

    “What will I tell [his daughter by 3rd wife/my half-sister] when she starts asking questions?”

    Yeah: the specter of 5 year olds asking questions *is* dangerous – but not for the parents. Oh, and the questions? Never mind them. We never actually hear any 5 year olds asking questions. We just raise the specter that they might…and, ooh, spooky, what could they be?…and presto: throw the trans folk out of families, throw them out of schools, throw them into prisons, why don’t’cha? Will no one think of the children’s questions?

    No, really: Will no one actually think of the children’s questions? Someone other than Bolling with his, “Am I transgender?” scare-capades. [The answer to which, of course, is easy as pie: “Probably not, but maybe. You’ll have to figure that one out yourself when you’re a bit older.” Pretty much the same answer you’d give a kid to, “Am I a genius?” or “Am I schizophrenic?” or “Am I an artist?” or even, “Am I inane enough to host a program on Fox news?”

    This story also makes me think: When even our incremental successes in creating a more gender-just world become opportunities for people to bash us – sometimes to death – it becomes damn hard to want to try anymore.

    Which, of course, is part of the point for some of these authoritarians.

    Argh. not a good day to read anything relating to Malkin.

  63. 63
    myeck waters

    Ah yes, the dreaded having to answer questions your kids ask. So traumatic.
     
    I remember back ca. 1996 when I was in an online discussion with someone who was seriously worried about this whole “gay people being openly gay in public” thing and asked how I would feel if I had a kid who asked me what a gay person was. Fittingly, my 8 or 9 year old daughter had asked me what a lesbian was just a few months earlier, so I already knew how I felt.
     
    And it wasn’t “traumatized”.

  64. 64
    Guy.Tanno BonGiovanni

    I have read all the comments up to this moment. Many are heart-making, personal, passionate. Most express sincere reactions to what they have heard is in the bill, (or heated reactions to other’s reactions) but not one person seems to have read the actual bill… at least, none seem to have not read the specific item of exemption (# 51930.)

    Countering that trend, see “se habla espol” in comment 61.

    (Thanks for those clear step-by-step links leading to another pointer for “Title 2 Division 4 Part 28 Chapter 5.6 section 51930.″ As you know, it pointed to but did not contain the specific information.)

    Thus to date the actual text of 51930 remains unseen. Not even the aide to my rep can locate it.

    {If you dear reader, wonder why I pursue this, suppose that elusive text in 51930 were to say something like “all public school bathrooms for grades k-6 are exempt from this bill.””

    Again, thanks to se habla espol for the clarity and effort offered, and to all of good will.

    Peace in

    @guyatree

  65. 65
    Natalie Russell

    @guyatree FYI — California Education Code 51930
    excerpted from http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/california/codes/california_education_code_51930

    California Codes > California Education Code > Title 2 > Division 4 > Part 28 > Chapter 5.6 > Article 1 > § 51930

    (a) This chapter shall be known and may be cited as the
    California Comprehensive Sexual Health and HIV/AIDS Prevention
    Education Act.
    (b) The purposes of this chapter are as follows:
    (1) To provide a pupil with the knowledge and skills necessary to
    protect his or her sexual and reproductive health from unintended
    pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.
    (2) To encourage a pupil to develop healthy attitudes concerning
    adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual
    orientation, dating, marriage, and family.

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