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[Lounge #398]

geoduckclam

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. We’re all happy as clams!

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

Comments

  1. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Hey, as long as it isn’t an assclam!
    :D

    If we need to give permissions to wiki-fy our Commune-related posts, then consider it given.
    -

  2. The Mellow Monkey says

    I think I must have missed something. Commune posts are going in the wiki now? Is there a link to whatever’s up?

    I’m up for anything I’ve posted on the topic going there.

  3. Cannabinaceae says

    That looks like a geoduck, pronounced “gooey duck”.

    No, I’ve never eaten one, but I would if I had the chance. Well, maybe not a whole one, I’m not all that big.

  4. morgan says

    Hey it is a Geoduck clam… pronounced gooey-duck. This looks like a baby. They are yummy, but their phallic appearance freaks out many folks. Too bad. But not for the clam I suppose.

  5. Esteleth, Ultra-PC Feminist Harpy Out To Destroy Secularism says

    Funny:
    I’m currently chatting with the Someone I Met. And I mentioned Pharyngula.

    So she says, “What is that?”

    I briefly explain. Both the biology and the blog.

    Leading to her saying:

    OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER

    Horde, I think I am in love.

  6. says

    Jafafa Hots,

    Regular duck is good too… OMG I love duck! My wife hates it because it tends to be fatty and gamey, but I love it because the meat is richly flavored and the rendered fat makes an incredible gravy.

    For me, I think the temptation of the geoduck is that it affords a level of size that most clams just don’t. I think most people chicken out and just grind or dice the geoduck like it is more cost-efficient clam. I’d like to experiment with larger pieces and see if I can work the texture and flavor to my advantage. Maybe like a spiral-cut geoduck?

  7. J Bowen says

    I accidentally caught a clam once while I was fishing for walleyes. I didn’t know what to do with it so I threw it back in the river. It was just barely hooked through the flesh on the outside of its closed shell.

    Happy clam.

    About a year later me and my wife were strolling down the dry river bed spotting clam shells everywhere.

  8. permutation says

    If you haven’t caught last week’s Quirks and Quarks podcast yet, you at least need to know is that it includes a researcher who has set up video cameras in hopes of capturing deviant barnacle sex.
    http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/episode/2013/01/19/january-19-2013/
    The gooseneck barnacle doesn’t have the usual legendary barnacle penis – instead, it found a way to mate with others far, far away.

  9. says

    I went clamming at the Bay of Fundy as a kid.
    The resulting clams were gritty. We ate them with ketchup.

    The next year when we went back (was it the next year?) there were signs all over warning people not to eat the clams because of some disease.

    I think that was where it all went wrong.

  10. says

    I sort of like the idea of Lounge matchbooks… largely because I don’t have much of anything from my past to hang onto.

    When I was a kid, one of my uncles stole everything we owned… literally backed a truck up and filled boxes and plastic bags and left our home looking like no one had ever lived there*. When I was 10, my family packed up and moved to North Carolina, and all of our stuff was moved into a barn with a leaky roof while my dad tried to unpack it, and a bunch of it was destroyed. When I moved out of my parents’ house, they moved my stuff into an unfinished basement where most of it was destroyed by water or mold.

    So I’m all about collectibles. Someone make a T-shirt, let’s have some matchbooks, who wants to make a commemorative plate?

    *I don’t have any clear memories before my 8th birthday. I’m relaying what was told to me.

  11. rowanvt says

    Threadrupt:

    Did you know, I really *love* owners who tell us that yes, their cat be a little aggressive because it’s a feral that their taming, but they can totally pet it (and sometimes it won’t attack them when they touch it) and they got in the carrier just fine (lying, cat scratched the owner) but then *don’t* tell us that the cat also charges them at random and climbs their legs while attacking them.

    I really am enjoying my bite wound on my right index finger from this evil 2 year old (now formerly) intact feral tomcat that got his only rabies vaccination the day he bit me. AND he bit me through a towel and thick leather gloves.

    I’m also enjoying the aching arm from my tetanus vaccine.

    We told the owner that once the 10 day quarantine is over… put the feral BACK outside where they found it. Adult ferals rarely fully tame. Adult feral toms are even less likely to tame. An adult feral that is also of the charge you and try to rip your eyes out variety is almost guaranteed to NOT tame and if they want a rescue cat, they should foster a feral kitten that will probably tame.

  12. Cyranothe2nd says

    @ 27–Improbably Joe

    First, that’s awful and I’m sorry that that happened to you.

    Second, my parents were the kind of people that didn’t value the belongings of others or the privacy of us kids, so it wasn’t unusual for me to come home and find some of my stuff just gone. I had to hide the stuff I really valued. As a consequence though, I throw practically everything away. I keep important documents (to a point) but throw or give most everything else away when I get tired of it. I never really thought this was weird until a few years ago, when my partner got a new coat and had trouble throwing the old one out because he’d worn it all through high-school and college. It never occurred to me before that “normal” people imbue objects with emotional significance. While some things are significant to me–my daughter’s baby book, for example–other stuff just isn’t on my radar (her first blanket, or first pair of shoes or other stuff that people save. To me, that’s just stuff.) And to me, “collectibles” and “collections” are just clutter. The only things I keep for longer than a year or two are books, and I still ruthlessly cull those out after a few years.

    No point here, except that we had the exact opposite reaction to similar experiences.

  13. says

    rowanvt:
    Oooh, geez. My sympathies.

    ****
    IJoe:
    I totally had a thought the other day of a shirt or hat that gets shipped around to each of us. We sign it and ship it to the next person. Once we have all signed it, as many of us who are financially able to, pitch in to produce multiple copies of said hat/shirt for all Lounge denizens. Lovely idea, but I have no idea how to make it work while retaining everyone’s anonymity.

  14. says

    rowanvt,

    I’m the opposite sort of “owner”: I tell people the very worst thing my furry kids have done up front. Better that others take unnecessary precautions and they aren’t needed, rather than they take no precautions and get hurt for their trouble.

    I took my dog in to the vet about two weeks ago. I muzzled her myself. The fact that she didn’t act like she needed to be muzzled doesn’t change that later that night she bit my wife badly enough that both of them were on antibiotics.

  15. Cyranothe2nd says

    Rowant:

    Do feral kittens or adolescents tame easily? I have a friend who adopted a feral when he was maybe 6 months, and he’s still hyper-aggressive and scratchy/bitey. I don’t know if he needed special handling or what… (probably too late now, as she’s had him a few years.)

  16. rowanvt says

    @Joe #33-

    You are my favorite type of owner. I’m always delighted when someone warns me about their pet. I’m also sorry to hear that your wife got chomped that badly. She has my sympathy.

  17. rowanvt says

    @Cyranothe2nd #34-

    Feral kittens tame down easiest if they are found before 3 months of age. After that, it’s up in the air. I’ve seen a few tame, a few that became semi-tame, and some that never tame at all. My nymsake, Rowan, is a semi-feral that I own. I got her off the streets at 9 months old and she’d clearly had *some* people exposure before I got her. But she is entirely unable to be handled and will back into a corner growling and hissing if you startle her. I have more scars from that cat than any of the evil cats at my old job.

    The best way to tame a young feral is to stick ‘em in a bathroom with food, water, litterbox, toys and sit in there for a couple hours every day. Don’t look at them. Don’t talk to them. Just read a book or something so they have to deal with you merely existing. Also bring in a nummy treat such as tuna or baby food and set it a few feet away from you (and take it when you leave). After a few weeks of that, begin reading out loud so kitten gets used to the sound of your voice. A few weeks of that and you can begin looking at the kitten and bringing the nummy treat (if kitten eats it) incrementally closer to you. Once they can eat close to you, you can try playing with the kitten via a string toy or some such.

    It can take a few months for a 3-monther sometimes, but most kittens when I’ve done the above have actually tamed in just a few weeks.

  18. borax says

    J. Hots,
    Was the disease Red Tide? That stuff will make you sick.
    Now when it comes to duck, it comes in two varieties; delicious and horrible.

  19. says

    Second, my parents were the kind of people that didn’t value the belongings of others or the privacy of us kids, so it wasn’t unusual for me to come home and find some of my stuff just gone.

    One day when I was maybe 10 or 11 I came home from school (this was a little while before my whole family just fucked off and left me outright) to find that all of my stuff in my room was gone. My books on archeology, science, etc., my collection of insulators… (I was a strange kid), everything.

    My mother took it all to sell at a flea market. She was surprised that I was upset.

    It was unsettling. Turned out to be a minor event compared to what followed, but at the time I thought it was important.

  20. says

    “Was the disease Red Tide? That stuff will make you sick.”

    Dunno, my memory is vague (I’m not even sure I have the timing right) but I seem to recall just a vague mention of contamination or bacteria or “Warning – can make you sick” or something.

    I’d still like to visit the Bay of Fundy again though. I figure maybe they’ve fixed their clams by now.

  21. says

    Cyranothe2nd,

    You threw that irritating “y” in there, that’s the reason people call me IJoe/iJoe. :)

    Otherwise, I feel like we’re really similar, although maybe a couple of years apart in seeing how other people treat things as valuable. I’m just now wanting to have that feeling of being connected to a past. I’m only in the last 2-3 years feeling attached to things beyond their purchase price. And ironically, “normal” people seem to think I’m a fucking idiot. I guess people with a more traditional background give a whole bunch of things a little bit of value, because I only have a few things they all take on huge value to me.

    The first decade of my life is GONE. The second decade consists of a handful of mold-covered yearbooks. The third decade is a couple of things from the Marines and nothing else at all. The remaining years are a little bit more populated, but I tend to be a bit silly-sounding to people when I talk about that stuff… because it is most of what I have that’s solid to show I ever existed.

  22. mieuxvaut says

    I’m just going to take this opportunity of civility to delurk…

    Hello! I’m a feminist atheist to-be scientist. I like cats (even the bitey ones). And I’m still traumatised by my mother throwing out some of my old toys when I was 17 – but not the ones she knew I didn’t care about, only my favourite stuffed toy (a cat, natch) and my baby blanket.

  23. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Second, my parents were the kind of people that didn’t value the belongings of others or the privacy of us kids, so it wasn’t unusual for me to come home and find some of my stuff just gone. I had to hide the stuff I really valued. As a consequence though, I throw practically everything away.

    Huh.

    When I was little my mom would buy my brother and me too many toys, especially stuffed animals, and then when she decided the mess in our rooms was Too Overwhelming she would force us to cull our toys. At least once she tried to tell us we could only keep 10, or 15, or something like that. (I remember I pushed back pretty hard on this, and increasingly successfully as I got older…though that doesn’t seem to have stopped the box that had my remaining childhood stuffed animals in it from disappearing by the time they moved out of their house a few years ago). Stuffed animals were the worst because they were cute and I anthropomorphized them and felt a deep sense of loss and loneliness at having to give them away. As an adult I’d try fairly hard to avoid buying things that might have to be given away later, and have been reluctant to throw things out or give them away; though I’m slowly getting better about it, I still often defer deciding whether to keep things in lieu of getting them better sorted and/or put away. When my then-wife would come home with some impulse purchase we couldn’t afford, she’d often ask me if I wanted her to return it and I felt like it would be some sort of betrayal to demand she do so. I’ve always handled my daughter’s toys carefully…trying to discourage people from buying her things she wouldn’t actually want, and once she was old enough, asking her if she wanted me to go through and donate toys she didn’t play with any more (generally yes), and if she wanted to be involved or just wanted me to handle it (also generally yes).

    I actually had a sobbing breakdown when mom was helping me sort out the toys that had been left in a mess in the de facto playroom when daughter and I were getting ready to move back out of the house we’d been renting for a year (her mom being shacked up with a Not A Boyfriend by that point), and she was pushing me to keep less things, and reminded her of how traumatic the forced culling had been for me as a child…and of course she insisted that it was never forced, and she’d only wanted us to donate the things we didn’t want any more, and that she’d always allowed us to keep the things we actually cared about (technically true at least some of the time, but there was a LOT of “are you sure? Really? Are you sure?” and other pressure. I don’t think she accepts that pressure counts).

    Business as usual. >.> (Well, somewhat atypical, actually; usually she just doesn’t want to talk about any childhood experience I’m trying to process as an adult).

  24. says

    Oh, and Tony… I had a similar thought to yours. I thought I’d buy everyone a snazzy hat, and we’d know each other by the hat, and how cool would that be?

  25. mythbri says

    On the anniversary of Roe v. Wade this week, protesters gathered outside my local Planned Parenthood clinic.

    That clinic does not offer abortion services. I suppose they were protesting general healthcare. Or pregnancy testing and related pre-natal care. Or cancer screenings. Or men’s healthcare (Oh no – how silly of me. No one protests men’s healthcare). Or HIV testing. Or STD testing, treatment and vaccines. Or women’s healthcare.

    I just don’t understand it. I can’t help but believe that people who are anti-choice have just never really thought about it. Really. I know that’s naive, but I don’t understand how someone could really put a lot of thought into the issue and come down on the side of forcing women to give birth against their will, or to outlaw a potentially life-saving procedure.

    I don’t understand it.

  26. says

    mieuxvaut,

    Please, stay unlurked! The community we’ve built here doesn’t see new people as splitting resources, but as adding to the pot. More people don’t take away from, they add to.

    And I feel your trauma… I’m still hurting from where my dad destroyed my G.I. Joe #1 comic book, and then thought he would fix it with a 4th reprinting a few years later.

  27. mieuxvaut says

    :) Thanks Joe. Anonymity will help!

    I hope that you managed to replace it yourself at some stage, but I guess not if you’re still hurting. My mother denies that such an event ever took place, in much the same way that she denies anything bad ever happening to us, ever. A true revisionist historian.

  28. mieuxvaut says

    Thank you Caine and Chigau. Grog is the most welcome of all welcomes. And… sleep well, I guess? If that’s what you’re going there for. I mostly use mine for the consumption of media and peanut M&Ms.

  29. says

    I tend to keep things that were gifts, as an aid to/substitute for memories. Otherwise, I generally don’t really have much attachment to things (although I’m a tad peeved about my mother losing/getting rid of all my old magazines. Not because I was attached to them per se, but because I was saving them for particular articles which I now can’t find anymore.) No one’s deliberately got rid of any of the things I do care about, but I know I’ve lost or broken some of them over the years. I just don’t know what they were anymore, for the most part, or who gave them to me, or why I was keeping them.

  30. says

    mieuxvaut,

    My first name is not actually “Improbable”… anonymity is OK and respected here. :)

    I’ve not replaced the things my parents destroyed… including some things my mother smashed when I got bad grades… but I’ve been trying to create new things, related to my new life. Sometimes it is hard to get people to understand, when those people have had stable lives and real records of their lives, that new things you get can have strong meaning. But it is cool, because I have an awesome wife who always tries and usually succeeds in understanding, and is supportive either way.

    My parents… I’ve trained them to be better parents, by threatening to cut them off and never speak to them again. My mother has “revisionist” tendencies too. She had something called “Mom math” where every dollar she ever spent triples and quadruples in the retelling. When I was 14 she bought me a Fender Stratocaster ripoff from a pawn shop for $175. If you asked her when I was 24, it cost $300, and by now it must be worth at least $800. Not so bad, except one time where I borrowed $1400, paid her back $900, at which point she claimed I owed her $2000.

  31. deoridhe says

    After chatting it up in a couple of threads (iPhones are a wonderful thing, yo), I’d thought I’d introduce myself too. Deoridhe, feminist raised by a feminist, not atheist but a skeptic of sorts, devout soft scientist (my eternal love is psychology, but I have a soft spot for sociology, anthropology, archaeology… pretty much anything where natural science rules), lover of cats (mine is sleeping on my bed right now, but he’s a cuddler and I’ve had him since he was nine and a half weeks), social justicer of sorts, geek…. very weird, but I like to think entertaining.

    Whenever I hear about people with sad childhoods, and disrespectful parents, and all that, I wish I could loan out my mom. Even when she didn’t understand what I valued and loved, she tried to value it because she loved me, and she taught me so much about being a scientist (she’s a physical chemist and used to take me and my brother to her lab when we were kids to watch obscure studies on the chemical makeup of sulfur, and to play with the liquid nitrogen). I’d love to loan her out to people; she was the adopted mom to most of my friends.

  32. says

    deoridhe,

    Welcome to the Lounge. The folks here are among the best people I’ve ever known. They give as good as they get, so I suggest you meet them in kind, and you’ll have no problems here. :)

  33. says

    As for me, my parents never threw out any of my belongings. A few times my dad threatened to throw out our legos, but only if we failed to pick them up from the living room and kitchen floor IMMEDIATELY.

    That’s a terrible invasion and upset of a child’s sense of self and boundaries between self and others.

    It is extremely sad that so many people have so many bad experiences at the hands of their parents. I know the parents don’t mean ill, too–it’s just childish behavior, lashing out, thoughtlessness. Still and all. It affects people so deeply.

    mieuxvaut, bienvenue. You’ll have to pardon me if I continually switch your ‘nym to “vaut mieux” in my head. Can’t be helped. Just sounds odd the other way around. That’s how I understand languages – patterns of sound just like music. Things just sound right or wrong.

    My boss sucks.

    I’m in love. And it’s reciprocated.

    How about you?

  34. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    Hello mieuxvaut and deoridhe, welcome.

    rq, I think, and everyone else involved in the commune project: well done! Fun, fun, fun. And I have to say that being the only person in the “Random Useless Skills” category made me laugh almost to the point of tears. And before anyone else tries to horn in on my action may I say: no way, ain’t going to happen. I can guarantee that my skills are more random and more useless than anyone elses, anywhere anytime. :p

  35. mieuxvaut says

    Thank you dalillama, and Jafafa Hots. Joe, I would pass you some M&Ms but I probably can’t throw that far.

    Deoridhe, nice to meet you! Your mum sounds awesome. My parents are both a bit perplexed by science, and also by being respectful human beings. They try, though.

    I laugh whenever anyone in this thread talks about geoducks, because my inner 13 old is telling me that they are surely Pokemon.

  36. says

    Tony – yes! Well, actually, it’s the same man I’ve been in love with since – fuck, since 2006. We’ve spent the past year living in different states. I just visited him (along with the Hordelings, though sadly not concurrently – he had to work during our dinner hour) and we had a great time. Again. Fourth such visit since June. We’re both changing, and for the better. We’re getting better at resolving our conflicts and enjoying our time with each other. We’re both dropping expectations and not putting so much pressure on each other or ourselves. He’s having a rough time on account of working 3 jobs and being too busy to have a social life, but I feel confident he’s going to hang in there long enough to find a job before the end of his Americorps thing.

    And, yeah, that giddy happy feeling I had when we first met is still there. So. In love.

    Okay, it’s true. I’m a romantic and a softie.

    /rambling

  37. deoridhe says

    iJoe and Caine: I’m a total fan. *blushes, flails, generally looks embarrassed*

    I’ve been lurking for about six months. I am a significant lurker. I’ve had places I lurked for years before becoming a loudmouth, but well… you guys seem so awesome, and Pharyngula felt so safe. I literally used to come here to reassure myself about the validity of humans after particularly rough days; it’s so relaxing to be in a place where being just is more important than polite, and the kindness when given is without hidden costs or strings attached.

    Thanks or the welcome Tony!

    Oh gods, I miss being in love! May it last you a long time, Sally.

  38. mieuxvaut says

    Thanks Tony, Sally and FossilFishy! Don’t worry if you do awful things to my name in your head – I’m not French, just pretentious.

    Sally, congratulations! And good luck Tony :)

    (Oh, I do have better things to do than camp on a comment thread. But they are no fun, and it’s a rainy Friday.)

  39. says

    deoridhe:
    The people here are some of the best humans I’ve known.
    And yes, this is a safe place. Even if The Lounge is the only place you want to post.

    ****
    Long Time Regulars:
    is it me, or have we seen more de-lurkers here in the last few months? Maybe I’m off here, but it feels that way.
    As I have said many times, I appreciate and welcome diverse points of view and new people with new stories to share (as they choose).

  40. says

    Anyone need an android cell phone?
    Someone gave me one. A Samsung Admire.

    I can’t afford a cell phone contract. No use to me.
    I’d donate it to one of those thingies where you donate it, but I don’t know of one around here.
    Nobody wanted to buy it dirt cheap (any offer accepted) from craigslist.
    None of my family members who do use cell phones use MetroPCS.

    I can just pop it in a bubble envelope and mail it. Or something.
    Seems like a waste to have it sitting here useless.
    (needs a charger, they’re like $5-$10 on eBay)

  41. says

    Sally: you being excited and happy makes me feel excited and happy too. I’m already in love and thrilled with it, and seeing anyone else in the same state just amps up my own feelings. :)

    deoridhe: I know we’re not polite, but we are generally kind to one another. And yeah, no strings attached. I’m probably still in the hole here 90% of what I’ve gotten from them financially, and all anyone asks of me is that I try to be good to myself and to my wife. Really genuinely good people here… and the angrier the person seems, odds are that’s how decent they are.

  42. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    There seems to be a lot of giddy love floating around The Horde lately.

    [Does a happy dance involving Peanuts like moves]

    [Notices a customer]

    “Uh, hi. Sorry about that. What can I do for you?”

    “No worries, I was looking for a tube like this one.”

    [Hands over tube.]

    “Yup, I’ve got one of those.”

    [Digs around for correct size.]

    “So, if you don’t mind me saying, you looked pretty happy there…”

    [Obvious question of why? indicated with a rising inflection.]

    “Uh, yeah, it’s just, er, here’s your tube…”

    [hands tube over, ponders for a moment, decides the world needs more joy.]

    “Look, this is going to sound stupid, but I was dancing like an idiot because a bunch of people that I know on-line have been finding relationships and being all in love and things, and well, I got caught up in the happy for a second…”

    [Customer gets big grin.]

    “Can I dance too?”

    “Of course!”

    [Flailing silly dancing for 10 or so seconds followed by helpless laughter]

    Thanks for triggering an awesome end to a pretty average work day, Sally.

  43. deoridhe says

    Tony: I’ve kinda opinionated it up already in the Thunderdome. When I delurk, I do it with energy. Hee hee. Actually, the lounge is one of the few places I haven’t lurked. It always felt more invasive. Elsewhere, there are debates and it seems public, but the lounge always felt like someone’s living room and like if I was going to watch, I should speak up, too. Isn’t it weird how subtle differences can cause such effects in different people? (I don’t expect others to agree with me, it’s just a weirdness in how I operate. See? Psych obsessed. Permanent navel gazer.)

  44. says

    deoridhe:
    No, it isn’t weird at all.
    It took me some time before feeling comfortable enough to post here. I felt like I was intruding, even though the nature of this area is that multiple conversations are often going on, it is open to all, and it is an open thread. Yet for all that, I still felt I was intruding. Really though, there is not any “good” time to post (by that I mean a point where no ongoing conversation is occurring where one could insert a comment into).

  45. says

    I still feel like I’m intruding on a group and forcing my way in.</blockquote.

    Shoot, even offering free stuff hasn't made the cool kids welcome me. ;)
    Man, it really would have been embarrassing if I had baked brownies like I originally planned.

    Tell you what, WMDKitty, lets you and me just choose corners to sit in and look brooding and thoughtful and like, artistic and stuff. :)

    Actually I think this lounge just closes early. Where I grew up, they closed at 4AM at which point everyone headed to various Greek diners for breakfast. Nobody even started getting READY to go out until at least 11pm. You didn't want to show up in the place until at least after midnight.

    Imagine my shock when I walked into a bar here where I am now for a beer and was told they'd be closing soon because it was almost 11pm.

  46. says

    Jafafa Hots
    If no one actually needs such a thing, I wouldn’t object to it; it looks a bit nicer than my current one. OTOH, if you want a cellphone, simple plans are dead cheap nowadays; I’m paying about $25/mo for mine.

    deoridhe
    It’s not just you, I felt the same way.

  47. says

    WMDKitty,

    We ALL feel like intruders and fakes from time to time. There have been times where someone has said that they feel like you feel, and then someone else says “Oh no, not you! But maybe me?” and then I’ve popped in to say “you two are awesome, but I don’t belong here!”

    I know that I care about the people here even if I don’t always feel like I fit. And I’m coming to learn that the people here don’t need to constantly reassure me in order for them to care about me back.

  48. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Dropping by to say hello.
    And I promise I’ll try to be nice.
    Cheers, mates( or comrades if you please), and have a good one.

  49. says

    Jafafa Hots:

    Shoot, even offering free stuff hasn’t made the cool kids welcome me.

    Yeah, right. You’ve always been a cool kid to me. ♥

    On the phone, I loathe cell phones. I have an uber cheap one and put minimum time on it as needed. It’s for emergencies only and the only person who has the number is Mister.

  50. says

    Jafafa Hots:
    Ummm, this bar does not close early. Have you seen how late I stay up? I’m *the* bartender here. You wants a drink?
    Imma fix you a drink.
    What’s your poison?
    A Paden on the rocks?
    A frozen Bumblebee?
    A Shermer shaken and strained?
    A shot of Groethe?

  51. deoridhe says

    Man, now I want brownies. *bats eyelashes at Jafafa*

    I’d take your free phone, but I just got a nearly free iPhone 5 (I have really nice friends, lets just say) and I’m still gleeful over the act I now have over two dozen books on it all for free. Free Austen, free Baum, I haven’t even looked up free Socrates and Machiavelli yet! The world is a wonderful place.

  52. says

    Dalillama, this being an android smart phone thingie, most people would want a data plan.
    Even simple plans aren’t that cheap around where I am, I think.
    But I don’t call people anyway.

    So anyway, let’s let the offer percolate until tomorrow to see if someone with a serious need comes along. If not, it’s yours.

  53. says

    On the phone, I loathe cell phones.

    Yeah, me too. I actually have one that is (generously of them) on someone else’s plan, but I never even charge the thing except when I need an alarm clock for a Dr. appt.

    Tony, judging from my body’s reaction, I’d guess my poison is lactose.

  54. says

    Dalillama:

    simple plans are dead cheap nowadays; I’m paying about $25/mo for mine.

    That’s not cheap. I wouldn’t dream of parting with 25 a month for a phone. Sorry, I can buy books with 25 bucks or food for my rats, or…

    I just buy x amount of hours at one time. I never use the thing.

  55. says

    Tony:

    As far as I’m concerned, if you post here, I care.

    I know it! :) That’s my point, I don’t need you to say it every time… not that I mind when you do! But I think I’m going to be able to be cool even when nobody says it to me. :)

  56. deoridhe says

    I used to loathe phones, and then I got this awesome bluetooth headset so I can hear everything perfectly, and well I’m not planning on sitting and chatting or anything, but the phone stuff I have to do for work isn’t as much of a pain anymore. It’s very new, so I’m still getting the sense of it, but I had a string of emergencies on Wednesday and it make them so much easier to balance.

  57. says

    Phones are… phones. My wife MUST have one, so adding me to her doesn’t mean much. But since I have one, it is so cool that I can use it to keep up with here, and alter the sounds of my guitar, and help me navigate in a new town, and all the other things the phones do these days!

  58. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Thanks good people.
    Looking forward to internetting with you.
    *orders a goodnight cap and lights up one last smoke before zzztime beckons*

  59. says

    I used to be senior consumer affairs rep at Fisher-Price.
    150-plus phone calls a day.
    Sometimes concerned and upset but polite parents of kids who had been hurt (and in some cases nearly killed (and in a couple actually killed)) by our products. (I caused a couple of recalls, that’s always fun…)

    More often outraged, irate and foul-mouthed parents violently upset that the stickers were missing and I wasn’t “next-minute-air”ing them to them.

    6.5 years of 12 hour days of that. I was good at it too, but I think I totally used up my “phone.”
    Now I hate the damned things.

  60. says

    Deoridhe:

    I used to loathe phones, and then I got this awesome bluetooth headset so I can hear everything perfectly

    That wouldn’t make a whit of difference to me. I do not like talking on the phone. I don’t like doing anything on a phone. I have a tablet, that’s as small as I’m going to get as far as ‘net stuff and I don’t have to talk to anyone on it, and more to the point, no one can call me on it.

  61. says

    Tony:

    I don’t like talking on the phone. I like talking…to people, in person.

    There’s a big difference. I’m not social either, and when I’m around people, I tend to watch and listen more than talk. If I’m just with a couple of people that I know, then I can enjoy talking. I’m fine on the ‘net. The ‘net is good.

  62. says

    Oh man, StevoRacist is about, Lee The Misogynist Coye is still yakking and I’m weary of idiots, racists and sexists.

    So, I’ll go back to spending time with worthwhile Misogyny (the one by Jack Holland). G’night, all.

  63. says

    Caine
    I needed a phone for job hunting, although then I was only paying $10. My current plan does include limited data, so now I can find places more easily, which is a boon as my sense of direction sucks. Also, I need to have a cell so that L can get in touch w/me while I’m out; sometimes he needs to be able to communicate w/me. Beyond that, having the phone allows me to carry books with me a lot more conveniently, and gives me convenient access to content from Baen, project Gutenberg, etc. Plus it allows me to keep up with the lounge at work, even when I can’t post :). I don’t actually use it as a phone hardly at all, though. I’m not terribly social at the best of times, and I don’t like talking on the phone if I can avoid it. I’ll cheerfully talk if I’m in a group of less than about 5 people, no more than 2 of whom are strangers; otherwise I tend to just sort of lurk. I really hate incoming calls, but that’s mostly a legacy of my last job at a call center, and the fact that 99% of my incoming calls these days are bill collectors.

  64. deoridhe says

    Ugh, Gilielle! Sounds like a really rough time. Tantrums are such a pain.

    Yeah, I prefer the body language of talking to people in person, or the entire lack of talking through text, but the half-life of the phone is off-putting.

    I can’t deny it’s handy, though; honestly my favorite love is how it gives me internet access, game access, texting access, a calendar to keep me organized, to do lists, and my new favorite the Unfuck Your Habitat application which makes me ever so happy and may result in me having a clean house due to awesome. I’m so thoroughly on the “my phone can do eeeeeeverything” bandwagon and having a ball that it’s kinda pathetic.

  65. says

    I would like a tablet kind of device, but a little smaller, for directions (I walk & bus everyone, surprisinlgly that makes directions far MORE important) and quick research when out… but then I have to admit to myself that I’m practically a shut-in, rarely venturing more than a half mile from where I live, so for those few occasions like appointments or winning a free concert ticket or something, it’s not worth it.

    Plus I just hate carrying crap, so even the phone I have that does crude mapping I leave uncharged at home.
    (I should maybe check my voice mail. It’s been at least 2 years since the last time I checked.)

    But the main reason is things are wrong with me so I’m not bragging or anything.

  66. bluentx says

    And now begins the Lounge Lull. That time of the day JUST when I can take time to comment —everyone goes to bed, leaves for work… A person could get a persecution complex :)
    Yoo hoo, anybody home?

  67. Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion says

    Caine – Just have to say it, because you’ve been so hard at it lately – You are awesome. Any thread with a whiff of sexism and you’re there fighting the good fight and showing the arseholes exactly how badly they stink.

    Thank you.

  68. John Morales says

    Jafafa Hots,

    I would like a tablet kind of device, but a little smaller, for directions

    Which reminds me, in future past goggle and earpiece sets that could provide virtual overlays and mark up reality were just around the corner.

    (What happened?)

  69. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Just figured out the utc time. Hadn’t seen it before, nice one.
    Surely this will wreak havoc upon my surrealistic sleeping patterns. Heh…patterns, not bloody likely.

  70. says

    Well, I’m not getting any relaxtion or reading in, the rats have decided it’s fight, fight, fight night.

    Tony:

    There’s an email I’d like to send you.

    You can grab my e-address from my zenfolio: http://caine.zenfolio.com/

    Sophia:

    Caine – Just have to say it, because you’ve been so hard at it lately – You are awesome. Any thread with a whiff of sexism and you’re there fighting the good fight and showing the arseholes exactly how badly they stink.

    Thank you.

    Thank you. You’re hardly a slouch in the fight yourself, you know. ♥

  71. bluentx says

    Ponies and owls,oh my!
    Tony, I caught the comment up thread and saw the Commune wiki for the first time! Ooooo…
    And that, deoridhe, is part of MY delurking testimonial. I delurked here just before christmas (and unfortunately haven’t been able to get back lately). With just a few comments from my end the regulars included me on the spreadsheet!

    *sniffle, sniffle* I’m getting misty-eyed.

  72. says

    John:

    Which reminds me, in future past goggle and earpiece sets that could provide virtual overlays and mark up reality were just around the corner.

    (What happened?)

    The dream of Macx is dead.

  73. deoridhe says

    Awww, I haven’t been on a wiki since I was a big name at FandomWank! Of course, most of what’s on there about me is lies written by me…

    Hee hee, yay Elvish! My name is just bastardized Irish. I love learning how people got their names, though, and the meanings behind them. The toss off, a year later it’s a major identity ones are almost more interesting than overthought ones like mine.

  74. bluentx says

    My nym started out as political commentary but can double for many things lately. Every time Rick Perry, Joe Barton. Ron Paul, Louie Gohmert, or John Cornyn open their mouth I get blue, red, hostile… Maybe I should just change it to ‘facepalm n tx’.

  75. bluentx says

    Blue is fine, Caine.
    [Sucking up to follow...]
    Caine, some of your comments (during my lurking period) were what kept me coming back to read. Thanks for the education and insight.

  76. bluentx says

    Time to make the hour commute home. Wonky rural internet providing I’ll be back online then.

  77. says

    Caine, some of your comments (during my lurking period) were what kept me coming back to read. Thanks for the education and insight.

    Thank you, Blue. I really appreciate that, you have no idea how much. Have a safe commute.

  78. deoridhe says

    Yeah, I’ve been Deoridhe since 2006. People regularly call me that offline, and I answer to it the same way I answer to my legal name.

  79. says

    God I love Changi airport in Singapore. Managed to break my glasses in my sleep on the flight over, and was walking through the world in a miopic haze until I found a little mini market that sells superglue! It’s not pretty, but at least I can see for now.
    Murray seems to be beating Federer, I will catch up on the result when I get to Bangkok in a few hours. I have an appointment with a Sky High bar on the 24th floor overlooking the city of 10 million, my favourite place in the world. Or close enough.

    Also, Deadric weapons are fun! And Im looking forward to see if the Nettlebane sword will kill the damned Spriggans in the Grotto quest when I get home the week after next! *Skyrim reference*

  80. says

    Tony,
    Email has been received. I will reply after I’ve cleared the cobwebs (it’s 5:45 here and I haven’t had any coffee).

    For anyone thinking about getting a tablet, I totally recommend investing in a stylus (they’re cheap!) too. Makes using the touch screen sooooooo much easier.

    Hello new people!

  81. bluentx says

    Well, only one seemingly suicidal deer on the way home. Fortunately it changed it’s mind at the last minute and neither of us was damaged.

    I know there are a few Texas Loungers/Pharangulites but are there any legal types who might be able to help me navigate through the stupidity that is Texas Open Range Laws?
    The Justice of the Peace (a friend from High School) told me that– yes, what I read online IS pretty much correct. Because of the Open Range Laws it’s mostly on ME to keep my neighbors goats off my property not his responsibility to control them!WHAT!?
    So, now I not only have to spend money on fencing material to try and patch the fence but will have to pay my lawyer to ‘threaten’ a civil suit because I know no amount of ‘patching’ will keep goats out. Grrrrr!

    Okay, got that out of my system now…. Good Morning everybody!

  82. jjgdenisrobert says

    OK, dude, the popups on this site are getting really annoying. It seems like every whitespace is a link to some dumb ad???

    Getting damn close to the straw that broke the camel’s back, PZ.

  83. Pteryxx says

    Or free Firefox and adblock. Incidentally it’s Ed Brayton who’s in charge of the site advertising, not PZ. (Ed’s at Dispatches from the Culture Wars in the sidebar.)

    Welcome more new awesome peepz and Caine-fans.

    I’d rant about parents that trash their kids’ stuff but first I have to go hide things. >_>

  84. Matt Penfold says

    Are there really pop-ups on this site ? Only I thought I recalled Ed saying that was one type of ad they would not allow. The only ones I see are the standard, click-on to visit type.

  85. mildlymagnificent says

    Federer v Murray now in fifth set.

    Which reminds me about the commune. Didn’t we have some ideas about education as well as healthcare – we should also have games and, if not the real thing, piccies of equipment and copies of rules. Croquet and field hockey much more doable than tennis and some other games I would have thought. A goodly stock of board games wouldn’t go astray along with playing cards.

    Welcome to de-lurkers. Commiserations to the not-so-well. Love to the loving in love.

    Laughing at FF and customer.

  86. billingtondev says

    Delurking is kind of an odd process. I did it – then wondered why the hell I did it? Still not sure really – except was only way to get over that felling of ‘prying’. And acknowledge the great stuff – and people – here.
     
    Got my nym from the authors of a book on Composting that happened to be sitting on bookshelf next to the computer.
     
    Good Grief! Just pulled it out and had a look at it – it was published in 1956. Well revised in 1956 – first published in 1952! Clearly I’m not one of those that throws things out.

  87. bluentx says

    Parents throwing things out? I have/had the opposite problem- got the packrat gene from both sides! Expecting the film crew from ‘Hoarders’ to show up any day*- I’m working on my ingrained neurosis (did I tense/spell that right?).

    *Better ‘Hoarders’ than ‘Cops’ I guess.

  88. Beatrice says

    I am totally and utterly threadrupt and was trying to catch-up.

    Then I read this:

    Tony:

    And let me just say, I love that, courtesy of MacGuyver, Beatrice is in charge of explosives!

    Um. Ok. Interesting. I guess I could blow things up if needed. How hard can it be?
    Right?


    And now I remembered that I forgot to give Dalillama confirmation that whatever comment of mine he (or rq) finds valuable, they can use it.


    Tony, where did you get this info about the commune? Should I send rq and email, or is it somewhere else?
    Sorry, I’m a bit lost right now.


    Also:

    update on my worries about getting a day or some hours off to go write a test for another job:

    I panicked needlessly (as usual). Boss was great, wished me luck.

  89. bluentx says

    billingtondev:
    Always liked that story about Lee Hays of the folk group The Weavers. He was an avid gardner. When he died (supposedly) in his will was the stipulation that his ashes be turned into his compost bin. Story goes they had a ceremony/party and did just that. I think I heard that via Ronnie Gilbert one of his ‘band’ members.. or was it Pete Seeger telling the story? Been a while…

  90. bluentx says

    Beatrice:
    Having trouble linking but see Comment # 21 this thread. Especially note the spreadsheet links at bottom of wiki page. :)

  91. Beatrice says

    bluentx,

    Ah, there it is. That’s what I get for skimming comments, I miss obvious things.
    Thank you!

  92. bluentx says

    Eh, not so obvious the Schmott Guy was kinda sneaky. Gotta be-we can’t have everybody in on the ‘Secret Plan’ before it’s complete—rrriiight?

  93. howard says

    Mythbri @ 48

    Mind if I drop a link to one of the best answers to that question I ever heard?

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

    And you can read my rant on the matter at Manboobz here (though I mostly just repeat her with a lot more yelling, and a connection to why MRAs terrified of spermjacking refuse to get a vasectomy)

    Summary: because they don’t actually give a good goddam about the babies, of course. It’s really about controlling women, and anybody in the movement who thinks too hard about the babies eventually ends up leaving the movement in disgust, because of their hypocrisy.

    Also, I’ve been lurking and reading around these parts for, I don’t know, a year? And it’s a pretty awesome place.

  94. billingtondev says

    bluentx:

    Ha! Cool story. Hadn’t heard it before – but makes sense to me.
    I think I inherited the book from my Dad. He was a great gardener too. And an old atheist from way back. He stipulated that his body be donated to science when he died. He couldn’t see any sense in being buried – taking up space in perfectly good ground that could be used for something productive. And somebody might as well get some use from his remains since he didn’t need them any more! He would have liked the composting idea too. Pete Seeger… oh my – yup, thats a while ago alright…

  95. camcaran says

    Hello. I’m a delurker too.

    I also wanted to share my thoughts on holding onto stuff. I don’t remember very much anything of my life before the age of 13 or so. And even to 18 or 19 my memories are very foggy. (I’m 26 now) Until lately my mother kept almost all my old toys and drawings, but I didn’t see much value in them. After all, I don’t even remember ever having them. But when I looked through them, as my mother was moving and didn’t have space for them anymore, she had to throw them away, among those things was this very little, plastic, sad looking turtle. And when I saw it started to cry, but I don’t know why. That and couple of teddy bears are only things I have kept from my childhood. I also have other items important to me, but them I have bought or received later as an adult.

  96. bluentx says

    Okay, was just scanning back through yesterdays comments. Now I’m a little concerned– FossilFishy and family you okay out there in fire country?

  97. dianne says

    I don’t understand how someone could really put a lot of thought into the issue and come down on the side of forcing women to give birth against their will, or to outlaw a potentially life-saving procedure.

    Some haven’t thought it through any further than “oh, the poor babyz” and are picturing 3 month olds being torn apart in the average abortion. But most are simply evil. Get to talking to a “pro-life” man and pretty quickly the rapist comes out. A person who believes he has the right to tell you what to do with your uterus will believe he has the right to tell you what to do with your vagina.

  98. dianne says

    camcaran, not having any memories before age 13 is concerning. Would you consider talking to a therapist and maybe getting a physical exam to make sure there’s no physical problem preventing you from forming memories properly? (Some caution though: bad therapy might be worse than none…false memories and so on.)

  99. birgerjohansson says

    Miscell. books and films:
    If Lovecraft had been a woman: Kiernan:”The Red Tree”
    Alan Moore: “Nemo: Heart of Ice” League of extraordinary gentlemen go to the Mountains of Madness
    Film: “Grabbers” …The evil critters from beyond space turn up at a small Irish island.
    Fortunately, drinking alchohol makes you taste badly, so the protagonists try to stay plastered while saving the world.
    — — — — — — — — — — —
    NB: False beliefs persist, even after instant online corrections http://phys.org/news/2013-01-false-beliefs-persist-instant-online.html The comment section is a free-for-all battle Royale, with creationists and AGW denialists. I am not at all surprised that the conspiracy theories common in Republican circles resist any correction.
    — — — — — — — — — — — —
    Never do this: ”Home Alone” http://www.xkcd.com/1164/
    — — — — — — — —
    Energy policy: The rebound effect is overplayed http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v493/n7433/full/493475a.html
    — — — — — — — —
    Expert warning: Resistance to antibiotics to be apocalyptic http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-expert-resistance-antibiotics-apocalyptic.html
    — — — — — — — — —
    Tumor cells engineer acidity to drive cell invasion http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-01-tumor-cells-acidity-cell-invasion.html

  100. The Mellow Monkey says

    Oh, wow. That commune skills chart is wonderful. Makes me rather wish we really were all pooling our skills together. :D

    Welcome to mieuxvaut, deoridhe, Jesper, bluentx and anyone else I missed!

    FossilFish:

    [Customer gets big grin.]

    “Can I dance too?”

    “Of course!”

    [Flailing silly dancing for 10 or so seconds followed by helpless laughter]

    Love this!

    I powered through The Creation of Patriarchy by Gerda Lerner yesterday, since holding a hot compress to my face made it difficult to do much else. It’s a bit dated in places, but really helped me better conceptualize how patriarchy develops and works.

    Now that this Sudden Mystery Wisdom Tooth has erupted, my head in general is feeling quite a bit better and the ear infection has cleared up. I’m still really cautious, though, and have resigned myself to spending what little savings I have on a dentist if there’s any pain by Monday or if it gets worse again today. I had a wisdom tooth come in without me even noticing it once before. That time, I don’t think there was any discomfort at all. Just one day I noticed I had an extra tooth.

    I may actually be an elephant.

  101. Pteryxx says

    ooo! forgot the pull quote, but this is a better one anyway: (bolds mine)

    For example, aversive racism
    theory (Gaertner & Dovidio, 1986) proposed that wellmeaning
    Whites now regularly tried to suppress and deny
    overlearned, negative stereotypes of Blacks. The Civil Rights
    movement had successfully created dissonance between
    American ideals and the undeniable history of brutal racism,
    slavery, and segregation in the United States. Sympathy for
    Blacks (motivated by egalitarian ideals and ‘‘white guilt’’)
    created the ‘‘positive’’ pole of ambivalence toward Blacks.
    In short, racism theorists viewed racial ambivalence as a contemporary
    phenomenon, a post-Civil-Rights-Era syndrome,
    in contrast to ‘‘old-fashioned racism,’’ which had been open,
    explicit, and unconflicted.
    A similar analysis might seem to apply to sexism. Not only
    had gender role norms and attitudes clearly been changing,
    but by the late 1980s and early 1990s, Alice Eagly and

    Antonio Mladinic (Eagly & Mladinic, 1989, 1994) had
    demonstrated that American students (male as well as
    female) had more favorable stereotypes of women than men.
    Nobody was arguing that sexism (then defined primarily as
    hostility toward women) had disappeared,
    but the ‘‘women
    are wonderful effect’’ seemed to confirm that attitudes toward
    women had, like attitudes toward Blacks, transformed from
    hostile to ambivalent.
    But was ambivalence toward women a recent phenomenon?
    Eagly and Steffen (1984) had already pointed out that
    positive attitudes toward women were rooted in women’s role
    as nurturers. As these researchers noted, people think women
    are wonderful because of (not in spite of) traditional stereotypes
    about them.
    In contrast, theories of racism viewed traditional
    stereotypes as the primary cause of negative attitudes
    toward Blacks. Furthermore, the underpinnings of subjectively
    positive feelings toward Blacks (recognizing and sympathizing
    with their historical social disadvantages) did not
    seem to apply to men’s attitudes toward women: ‘‘male guilt’’
    over women’s disadvantages did not seem to be that strong (if
    it existed at all).

    That might sum up where the local anti-feminists are coming from, eh? They only recognize overt hostility, only when it’s extreme enough, and tend to misrepresent or misinterpret concepts like Schroedinger’s rapist or unconscious bias as accusations about all-men being awful people compared to all-women.

  102. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    There are two people ’round these parts who have Elvish nyms.

    ‘Course, Gilliel’s is Quenya, mine is Sindarin. I think that means that Gilliel is more high-class than I am.

    Welcome, newcomers!

    In about half an hour, I’m going to the doctor. Finally seeing about getting these damn sebaceous cysts chopped off. The big one (and there are several) is bigger around than my thumb and sticks up half an inch. And it isn’t painful per se, but it is starting to feel tight. Pre-painful, I guess. The shits run in my family, so when I started getting them in middle school, my parents were all, “Yep. Sebaceous cyst. When the get big, cut them off. But they’ll regrow.”

    Trufax trufax.

  103. bluentx says

    I commented about this on another thread but that thread was dead thereafter. The subject has probably already been touched on at Pharyangula or elsewhee on FTB but…

    Having been raised in and lived most of my adult life in Texas most of my friends and FB ‘Friends’are godbots. I am so sick of the prayer requests and ‘God is so awesome’ posts, some days I contemplate just deleting my account altogether. But then there are other reasons not to.
    It seems some of these friends are so invested in their outrage they don’t even do the least bit of research. Case in point:

    I just refreshed my FB page to find a long time friend bemoaning the fate of: Judge Roy Moore! She’s seems totally unaware that he is back ‘in’. She’s still fuming about him being removed from office and how the ACLU is trying to ‘strip him of his ability to practice law’!Well, I hope they are but my friend seems unaware that he was reelected!
    Yeah, I know they shouldn’t be held accountable just because of… of… facts! *sigh*

  104. ChasCPeterson says

    was it Pete Seeger telling the story?

    well, Lee Hays wrote a song along those lines that Pete used to sing a lot in performance.
    wait a sec…here, I found the lyrics.

  105. birgerjohansson says

    I recall an entymologist who died in Africa while researching insect vectors for pathogens. He wanted his body to be consumed by his favourite species of insects.
    — — — — — — — —
    “Imagining a future when machines have all the jobs” http://phys.org/news/2013-01-future-machines-jobs.html
    Perfect! The one-percenters will be able to do without those pesky “workers”!
    (also, see the short SF story “The New Santa Claus”)
    — — — — — — — —
    But don’t worry, the computers will probably save some of us for national parks.
    Also, see “The Great Computer” by Olof Johannesson (About he eventual obsolescence of humans.
    The author was actually Nobel laurate Hannes Alfvén, the one behind “alfven waves”)

  106. The Mellow Monkey says

    That is an excellent article, Pteryxx. This passage alone is mindblowing:

    A woman is beaten every nine seconds in this country. Just to be clear: not nine minutes, but nine seconds. It’s the number-one cause of injury to American women; of the two million injured annually, more than half a million of those injuries require medical attention while about 145,000 require overnight hospitalizations, according to the Center for Disease Control, and you don’t want to know about the dentistry needed afterwards. Spouses are also the leading cause of death for pregnant women in the US.

    “Women worldwide ages 15 through 44 are more likely to die or be maimed because of male violence than because of cancer, malaria, war and traffic accidents combined,” writes Nicholas D. Kristof, one of the few prominent figures to address the issue regularly.

    Quite a perspective when you look at it all together like that.

  107. birgerjohansson says

    “A woman is beaten every nine seconds in this country.”
    But if you put forward legislation to do something about it, the Republicans can still use the filibuster to stop it.
    Democrats -in this case Harry Reid- are fucking useless. One party consists of psychopaths, the other of spineless roundworms.
    — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
    You don’t exist in an infinite number of places, say scientists http://phys.org/news/2013-01-dont-infinite-scientists.html

  108. says

    Duh. I am so dense sometimes. I can post my idea on PET. That can reach a wide group of people. A bit easier than doing individual emails (though as some are not on there, I still intend to contact a few more peeps individually).

  109. UnknownEric says

    It took me some time before feeling comfortable enough to post here. I felt like I was intruding, even though the nature of this area is that multiple conversations are often going on, it is open to all, and it is an open thread. Yet for all that, I still felt I was intruding.

    Yeah, I feel like that too. It’s why I tend to just pop in occasionally. I tend to feel like, “Oh hey, I know you’re all having a nice conversation here, now let me talk about myself!”

  110. Pteryxx says

    Maybe y’all shy folks could apologize a lot, and then go ahead with whatever you wanted to say? ;>

  111. rq says

    [sneak]
    I found this for cicely.

    Also, thank you to SallyStrange and, subsequently, FossilFishy, for a delicious laugh about love and dancing. Still one of my favourite activities – dancing with my love, but as it happens, rare these days. ;)

    Tony, I’m all for hats and/or t-shirts (but I would prefer hats, I love snazzy hats and would love to wear one anytime, as long as it’s either (a) an all-season hat (needs insulation and ears) or (b) a transformable hat (can be transformed according to season)).

    To the de-lurkers: a big welcome, Tony does great drinks, and the various snacks appearing randomly are delicious. For anyone with useful/-less skills, or just a random collection of resources (books, tools, old chemistry sets), or just skills that you think are useless but might be useful in some mystical situation, you can contact either me (a random rq in bold will catch my attention, since I’m currently officially on re-lurk but as things are sorted that will become wander-in-wander-out; e-mail also works, see item#3) or, I suppose, Dalillama, who’s been putting the info online, via here.
    And remember, FossilFishy has dibs on random useless skills. ;)

    Quick commune note: the information on comments currently appearing on the wiki is not complete. There are a few more comments to ‘finish’ the conversation – might be a formatting issue (.pdf vs. .doc of the documents I sent Dalillama), but if anyone wants the full conversation before it goes up, see item#3 linked above.

    *hugs* and *happy jumps* for those in love.

  112. says

    Dianne #165
    What camracan describes matches my experience very closely. I will contradict your recommendation, however, in that as fas as I’ve been able to determine there’s fuck-all they can do about it; camracan would be wasting their time and the doctor’s.

     
    I picked up my ‘nym a 15-plus years ago when I was hanging out with Discordians a lot (there’s sometimes a ‘Pope’ attached to the front), and I kept it for a sense of continuity and to keep myself from having to remember a new one. At this point when I see it written, my brain actually inserts my actual name a fair piece of the time.

    birgerjohansen
    </blockquoteImagining a future when machines have all the jobs” http://phys.org/news/2013-01-future-machines-jobs.html
    Perfect! The one-percenters will be able to do without those pesky “workers”!
    (also, see the short SF story “The New Santa Claus”)
    There’s been a fringe political movement for decades insisting that we implement that kind of thing to the maximum possible extent, and do it yesterday. Then everyone can make a living working 5-10 hours a week and everyone’s happy. (That’s the short version, obviously).

  113. dontpanic says

    My father seriously wanted his body (after he died!) to be left out in the desert for the coyotes. I think eventually he realized that there were legal issues, and the potential for freaking out anyone who stumbled across his bones. Now I think my parent’s plan is to scavange (organ/skin donation, etc) what they can, donate the rest to science.

    Currently participating in a meeting by phone — damn frustrating. People not speaking up loud enough; presenters not telling what slide they’re on (and, no, “next slide” isn’t good enough if you’ve confused me so much that I don’t know where you currently are). And then there’s the student who’s working on optimizing step 2 of a chain of computer simulations. So he runs step 1 + 2a, and 1 + 2b, but since he didn’t make the effort to ensure that step 1 is the same in both cases (random #s) then he’s got a 20min presentation that tells me … nothing. The thing is, a month ago he did do it the right way: run step 1, keep the output, feed that to step 2a and in parallel step 2b. I wacked him with a verbal clue-by-4 but … what a waste of his time for the effort and everyone’s time during the meeting. [rage]

    Following up from previous lounge: Dreams. Hmm. For the fifth time in 2 weeks I’ve woken up knowing that I’ve dreamed and remembering bits. That’s about 30% of my lifetime (50+ years) total. DON’T LIKE. Please make stop. They’re not “horrible”, but I just don’t like the whole “dreaming” thing. Hmmm, perhaps I should see the doctor about adjusting the pressure on my sleep apnea CPAP machine.

  114. dontpanic says

    Pteryxx
    Sorry (how that for a start?)

    I only skimmed the article on infinite repetition but this bit stuck out at me:

    But the scientists’ biggest criticism of the idea of infinite repetition in both proposals is the assumption that the universe is infinite.

    Most of the time I see talked about these sort of doppleganger situations the author is not talking about duplication within a universe, but rather duplication of universes. Thus the universe in question needn’t be infinite, you just have to allow for there to be a mulitiverse (collection of universes). Not that I really expect even if there are such things, that there’s one with a “evil Captain Kirk” (goatee beard and all). Infinities are strange things — even if we physicists tend to wave many of the away. Quantum mechanics isn’t discrete in a way that really allows one to “spin” off new universes at every “decision point”. The cat isn’t dead or not dead, it’s dead at time t (or not) or dead at t+Δt (or not), etc. where the time slice becomes smaller and smaller.

  115. The Mellow Monkey says

    Really good article on Feministing: Men shouldn’t need to “imagine if it were your wife/daughter/mother.”

    “Imagine if it were your wife/daughter/mother.” Yes, this phrase is almost reflexively brought up when discussing rape, other forms of gendered violence, abortion–really, anything that affects primarily women. But try to picture a woman being call upon to do the inverse: “Imagine if it were your husband/son/father.” It rarely happens. The idea that a woman would need a reminder on how to empathize with someone–as well as way of mentally replacing the object of empathy with someone else who is more personally valued to them–seems slightly ludicrous.

  116. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    Just about 6am here. Sitting on my porch watching a line of thunderheads roll past. Saw at least one ground strike maybe a K away, actually, most likely a little more as I suspect my agitation is upping the tempo of my count.

    bluentx We’re okay for the moment, at least in the sense of immanent danger anyway. Mrs. Fishy’s uncle is the closest but they’ve had days to bulldoze containment lines around their house and are well prepared to defend. I am not okay in the anxiety department. This line of storms woke me an hour ago. Normally I love a good thunderstorm when seen from cover. But this is exactly what I was fearing. I’ll be fucking amazed if this hasn’t touched off new fires. All I can hope is that they’re far enough away and small enough that we’ll get the chance to run.

    Pteryxx

    Maybe y’all shy folks could apologize a lot, and then go ahead with whatever you wanted to say? ;>

    I know you meant this kindly and all, but despite the winky some shy folks are going to read that as mocking their need to apologise rather than as an invitation.

    rq I’m really, really good at riding a bicycle on ice. I live in Australia. It ain’t just hubris that makes me claim the “random useless skill” category as my own. :)

  117. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    Fucking hell, CFA truck just went by, lights on. And another one. Small grass fire and a structure fire according to the website. 20k away 15? Keep the fucker out of the trees anonymous firefighters. If I hear them loft the helicopter we’re outta here.

  118. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    So I totally walked across campus for a meeting that was totally in the same building as the one I work in.

    And it is 12 degrees and windy.

    And I missed the shuttle. Both ways.

    Because of course I did.

  119. thunk, hull overheating says

    lessee, rq ;

    My useless skills would be rudimentary weather prediction, map reading and other ossum geography memorization, piloting (simulated) spaceplanes, and digging up potatoes.

    I also have a knack for not falling after slipping on ice.

  120. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    *hug* for rowanvt. I consider a feral cat to be roughly equivalent to unexploded ordance found unexpectedly lying around without explanation. Back away sloooooowly….

    And let me just say, I love that, courtesy of MacGuyver, Beatrice is in charge of explosives!

    Son knows how to make napalm! Can’t do without napalm!

    mieuxvaut: Welcome in!

    I have a serious problem with people messing with My Stuff. *Mine! hssssssss!* I think it’s…territorialness. Of course, most of My Stuff has tended to be books, which have semi-sacred status on their own; but seeing someone (especially a not-friend) rummaging through My Stuff provokes a strong desire to 1) grab My Stuff outta their filthy meat-hooks, and 2) club them over the head, and 3) not explain why they later surface in a number of dumpsters in a three county area.
     
    I have always managed to refrain.

    Also welcome in, deoridhe.

    I know the parents don’t mean ill, too

    Except, sometimes, when they do.

    And Huzzah! for reciprocated love.
    :)

    Tony: Good luck on your date.
    -

  121. Pteryxx says

    I know you meant this kindly and all, but despite the winky some shy folks are going to read that as mocking their need to apologise rather than as an invitation.

    Sorry FossilFishy, and sorry people who don’t feel comfortable speaking up, that’s a good point. I meant to invite y’all to feel free(er) to post, and if you’re concerned about not being an ass to folks then you probably won’t be. I’m just extra snarky today for some reason. <_<

    HEY! SHY PEOPLE! COME OVER HERE AND POST MORE! HEY WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING?…

  122. thunk, hull overheating says

    Hi pteryxx. Good to see you.

    Fossilfishy: Be careful. Fire is hot.

    Everyone: yayhi! Good to see you around.

  123. Beatrice says

    Could I please get a hug?
    It’s possible that I don’t really deserve it because I’m evil. Or I do because I’m being manipulated and convinced by repetition into believing I’m evil. Or crazy. Maybe it’s that. Not sure.

  124. Pteryxx says

    *pounces fluffily on Beatrice’s ankles*

    …Generally people who are being evil aren’t spending any time worrying about whether they’re being evil or not. It’s likely you’re being manipulated. Hope you have someone to vent to, if not here.

  125. Pteryxx says

    oh, and heya Thunk, it’s good to see you when you do pass through here. (I fail at consolidating my replies…)

  126. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    A delayed thanks, Beatrice. :-)
    I’m still in the semi-lurking phase, but I have a feeling this will be a beautiful friendship.
    Time for a cup of joe, and this evenings first cancerstick.

  127. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    WMDKitty: You are not intruding, or forcing your way in!
    *hugs*

    Welcome in, Jesper Both Pedersen !

    Nobody here but us ponies.

    *looking around suspiciously*
    I trust that you are not a Horsist spy.
     
    As the old saying goes: If you lie down with Horses, you’ll get up with peas.

    Caine: What Sophia said. You are truly awe-inspiring in your wrath.

    Which reminds me, in future past goggle and earpiece sets that could provide virtual overlays and mark up reality were just around the corner.
    (What happened?)

    The Future lied to us, John. Where’s my self-cleaning house? Where’s my gourmet food pills?

     
    Where’s my damned Hoverchair™???

    Which reminds me about the commune. Didn’t we have some ideas about education as well as healthcare – we should also have games and, if not the real thing, piccies of equipment and copies of rules. Croquet and field hockey much more doable than tennis and some other games I would have thought. A goodly stock of board games wouldn’t go astray along with playing cards.

    Dice! Lots and lots of dice! And rulebooks.
    -

  128. chigau (違う) says

    Dice! Lots and lots of dice! And rulebooks.

    Rulebooks?
    We don’t need no steekin’ rulebooks!

  129. says

    Beatrice
    big *hugs* for when you get up. Also, you’re definitely not evil; I’m sure the Horde would have noticed by now. Indeed, just from the comment you made right here, I can say with as close to absolute certainty as I find in the world that the answer is, in fact, c) you’re being manipulated (or possibly gaslighted, bullshitted, or a few other related terms; I can’t say for certain which one). I say this based on the number of times I have heard exactly those sentiments expressed by people who’s situations I am quite familiar with and I can follow a pattern when i see one.

  130. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Beatrice: Glad to hear that Boss didn’t freak out.

    Howard and camcarran, welcome in!
    (Gang, I think we’re gonna need more chairs.)

    rq, that was a criminal waste of good yarn.
    *scowling fiercely*

    *hugs*, moral support, and hopes of good luck for FossilFishy&Family.

    *hot drink* and sympathy for Esteleth.

    *pouncehug* for thunk.

    *hugs* and reassurance for Beatrice. You are not evil, or crazy, or crazy-evil.
     
    “Manipulated” is a strong possibility.

    chigau: If we have no rulebooks, how can we ignore them???

    Caught up at last! Wheeee!

  131. chigau (違う) says

    cicely

    If we have no rulebooks, how can we ignore them???

    Excellent point.
    We need Rulebooks!!

  132. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    mieuxvaut, deoridhe, Jesper, howard, camcaran – Welcome to the Lounge!

    Sally – Congratulations on being in reciprocated love!

    The Mellow Monkey – *hugs* I hope you feel better soon.

    Beatrice – *hugs*

    cicely *pouncehug* Also:

    If we have no rulebooks, how can we ignore them???

    My thoughts exactly.

  133. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    In other news, the GP I saw said that she was going to send me to a plastic surgeon. Because in her opinion, the cysts are too big to be handled by a dermatologist.

    o_O

    She also said to make sure to tell the surgeon that they’re uncomfortable and frequently irritated (and that this shouldn’t be hard, as the big one is covered in scar tissue), so that my insurance will cover the removal.

  134. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Jafafa Hots, if you are still trying to give away that Android phone, I’d like to whine for it. The phone I now have is very far from a smartphone, and I’d love to be able to carry books and music. I need a new phone number to hide from my creditors, and probably to switch over to pay-as-I-go so I have fewer creditors. I’d like a WiFi phone to replace this dying laptop for home internet use, too. And just maybe I could spring for a data plan to get internet when out and about—I could have used that today to post this message earlier.

    I use an audio-book player for under my pillow so I can sleep at night, but that’s losing effect. If this phone will let me do internet research at night when I can’t sleep, that will be better. I usually lie awake going around and around about bad obsessions. It has gotten to the point that I am afraid to go to bed, even. If that phone will work as a WiFi browser, or even a game device, it might save my brain.

    Yes, please, I’d like that phone.

  135. says

    So many clam stories.
    I got one.
    Way back in the 70’s my roommate convinced me to go with his girlfriend and her roommate out to the Cape just before summer season started. Off we went. Motel somewhere out there right on the water.
    So we all go out into the water and soon my roommate and his girlfriend leave me with this girl and my feet are digging down in the sand and OMG, I come up with a good sized clam. We are elated and spend close to an hour without finding one more, during which time we slowly rationalize how one clam a sauce could make. We return to the room fully convinced we have the gastromomic ultimate to find that roommate and girlfriend had been shopping and had a coupla pounds of clams !!!
    That girl didn’t work out for me.
    Not sure if it was the clams though.

  136. says

    Memyambal,
    The phone in question can do all of the things you mention, and pay as you go plans are available; I have one. Your claim on it superior to mine, and I relinquish my request for it.

  137. says

    Beatrice, if you’re evil,* you’re the kind of evil I love. Very much. Many hugses to you. ♥
     
    Besides, you are naturally evil, all us women are – we’re a punishment from the gods, ya know, sent as revenge on the poor menfolk. We can’t help it, it’s our nature, everyone (men) says so.**
     
    **Yes, that book Misogyny is inhabiting the brain.

  138. says

    I’ve now reached early CE and the very early days of Christianity in Misogyny and read this most interestin’ bit:

    Christians felt a ‘contempt for their present existence’, which they believed was a merely passing phase that had to be endured. Some declared ‘a boycott of the womb’. A young wife turned Christian rejects her husband when he comes to bed with these words: ‘There is no place for thee beside me because my Lord Jesus with whom I am united is better than thee.’ Another young woman signals her rebellion against marriage and reproduction by informing her parents she is refusing to wash. St. Jerome (CE 342-420) would later sing the praises of Paula ‘squalid with dirt’ as the ideal of Christian womanhood.

    [...]

    The effect of this and similar sentiments was to make early Christianity – with its hostility to sex, disparagement of the married state and obsession with virginity – one of the mos profoundly anti-family movements ever come into existence.

    My, how things change. :D

  139. says

    Jesper:

    That’s just weird and creepy, caine.

    This was when Christianity was on the verge of merging with Platonism, which resulted in Catholicism. Paul’s attitudes toward the body had, er, inflamed the minds of early xians. It’s interesting that this happened, given that Christianity was propelled by primarily women. It’s because of women it grew so tremendously (being that early xianity gave women rights which they did not have in non-xian society.)

    Now, of course, you have the case of Christians claiming that xianity is the last preserve of family values, traditional values. It’s amusing.

  140. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Hehe, yeah it’s amusing. But also a bit scary, ’cause what if the fuckers suddenly thinks they were right all along, if you catch my drift. :-)

  141. Ogvorbis says

    First off, the commune stuff? No problem. If I accidentally wrote anything useful I give full permission for use.

    Congrats Sallystrange.

    I leave at oh-dark-thirty tomorrow morning. I figure it isn’t cold and snowy enough in Pennsylvania, so I and Wife are headed up to visit my family in Maine. I will be incomputercado until February 1 so, if you don’t hear from me for a while, don’t worry. I’m doing good. Well even.

    As for me, my parents never threw out any of my belongings. A few times my dad threatened to throw out our legos, but only if we failed to pick them up from the living room and kitchen floor IMMEDIATELY.

    I got that threat when I was young. Boy has also gotten that threat. Nice to know the nut doesn’t fall far from the acorn.

    At the moment every “no” is met with a serious tantrum and my head is already burtsing.

    Queue sappy music:

    Those were the days, my friends,
    We thought they’d never end,
    That they would last forever and a day!

    Been there. Done that. Survived. Hugs.

    Don’t those thunderstorms have rain?

    I’ve seen dry thunderstorms out in Montana (while at a forest fire) last for hours. One night, the lightning was so constant I could read my book by it. Scary.

    stay safe, Fossilfishy.

  142. says

    Well, they already think that. Most xians are abysmally unaware of the history of their own religion. They just listen to whatever their religious leaders tell them. It’s not like questioning is encouraged. The book I’m reading is about the history of Misogyny, and outside of Plato and Aristotle, xianity is the primary source of the misogyny we still get to deal and live with today.

  143. says

    Me:

    The book I’m reading is about the history of Misogyny, and outside of Plato and Aristotle, xianity is the primary source of the misogyny we still get to deal and live with today.

    To clarify, xianity took the earlier misogyny, adopted it fully, then *added* the concepts of sin and shame to it, exploding it to a much higher level. (The early Greeks and Romans didn’t have a concept of sin, their gods didn’t work that way, and they weren’t tied into the idea of bodily shame, either.)

  144. says

    IJoe:

    Caine, that boook sounds so interesting.

    It’s a good one, I’m learning a lot. I learned that in 305 BCE, Roman women launched the first recorded public protest movement ever organized by women to abolish the Oppian laws, and “mobbed” the forum for the hearing on said laws and caused a massive scandal, and led Cato to make a befuddled and impassioned speech on the spectacle and horror of women in the streets and at the senate house, concluding with:

    Woman is a violent and uncontrolled animal, and it is no good giving her the reins and expecting her not to kick over the traces. No, you have got to keep the reins firmly in your own hands…Suppose you allow them to acquire or to extort right after one another, and in the end to achieve complete equality with men, do you think that you will find them bearable? Nonsense. Once they have achieved equality, they will be your masters…

    So, it would appear that women have been fighting for their rights for a tad bit longer than most people think. :D

  145. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    “Well, they already think that. Most xians are abysmally unaware of the history of their own religion. They just listen to whatever their religious leaders tell them. It’s not like questioning is encouraged. The book I’m reading is about the history of Misogyny, and outside of Plato and Aristotle, xianity is the primary source of the misogyny we still get to deal and live with today.”

    I agree to a certain extent.
    I’m currently playing( in my head of course ) with the hypothesis that most religious humans know deep deep down that they’re wrong. Their faith simply doesn’t compute with facts, and therefore it isn’t a matter of faith. It’s a matter of fact.
    Those who do not are simply con men/women, or sociopaths. And that’s just nasty. But it’s the truth nonetheless, if you accept this hypothesis. :-)

  146. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    I wonder if women all-of-a-sudden doing [odd thing] in the name of Jesus was women who desperately craved autonomy grabbing onto a handy excuse?

    And the women refusing their husbands – maybe this was an excuse to say no to a husband who treated them badly in bed and/or getting around having to have more babies?

  147. Eurasian magpie says

    @birgerjohansson

    I recall an entymologist who died in Africa while researching insect vectors for pathogens. He wanted his body to be consumed by his favourite species of insects

    You probably mean William D. Hamilton, one of the most important evolutionary theorists of the 20th century. He died in London though.

    Here’s an excerpt of an essay he wrote called My intended burial:

    I will leave a sum in my last will for my body to be carried to Brazil and to these forests. It will be laid out in a manner secure against the possums and the vultures just as we make our chickens secure; and this great Coprophanaeus beetle will bury me. They will enter, will bury, will live on my flesh; and in the shape of their children and mine, I will escape death. No worm for me nor sordid fly, I will buzz in the dusk like a huge bumble bee. I will be many, buzz even as a swarm of motorbikes, be borne, body by flying body out into the Brazilian wilderness beneath the stars, lofted under those beautiful and un-fused elytra which we will all hold over our backs. So finally I too will shine like a violet ground beetle under a stone.

    Sadly, that is not what happened. He was buried in English soil.

    I had the privilege of meeting him once in the early 90s. Very much the eccentric professor but in the good way.

  148. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Esteleth – *hugs*

    Caine:

    xianity is the primary source of the misogyny we still get to deal and live with today.

    There’s a shocker. Not. My copy has been mailed. I can’t wait to get it.

  149. Pteryxx says

    I don’t suppose the Misogyny book has a computer-readable version for those of us without readers? Did it offer y’all a pdf or some such? (Paper’s fine *for me* but difficult to quote extensively…)

  150. says

    Esteleth:

    I wonder if women all-of-a-sudden doing [odd thing] in the name of Jesus was women who desperately craved autonomy grabbing onto a handy excuse?

    In this case, no. Women converted to xianity in masses because xianity gave them the right to refuse marriage and to make the choice in regard to reproduction, which earlier Greek and Roman law did not.

  151. says

    Pteryxx:

    I don’t suppose the Misogyny book has a computer-readable version for those of us without readers? Did it offer y’all a pdf or some such?

    No pdf in my case, but I went through B&N to get the e-book.

  152. Aratina Cage says

    you will do it kindly.

    Strangely, I read that as “kinky” today instead of “kindly”.

    We’re all happy as clams!

    Well I was after I got my ‘Pit Name: Clammy Steel. (And then for some reason Twitter removed most of my follows and followers, making me an unhappy clam.)

  153. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    In this case, no. Women converted to xianity in masses because xianity gave them the right to refuse marriage and to make the choice in regard to reproduction, which earlier Greek and Roman law did not.

    So, then, the second theory I posed?

  154. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    Concussion Coconut.

    (If accidents “count,” that is)

    Otherwise, I’m probably Chigger Infestation Coconut.

    I think I prefer “Concussion.”

  155. says

    Esteleth:

    So, then, the second theory I posed?

    And the women refusing their husbands – maybe this was an excuse to say no to a husband who treated them badly in bed and/or getting around having to have more babies?

    There’s no way to rule it out entirely, but from the context, I’d say it would also be no for most women. This was more of an ecstatic experience, a refusal to give in to the horrible flesh, a desire to utterly eliminate desire. To break the spell of the bed was to break the spell of the world. This was in the early days, shortly after the time when xians believed that Jesus was a comin’ back right quick, so they wouldn’t be stuck with these awful bodies much longer. As belief in that started to fade, there was a sort of headlong descent into militant asceticism. While this militant asceticism was primarily practiced by unattached men, it was infecting all xians to some degree. The emphasis on being virginal was supreme, so women took that route. There’s this bit on militant asceticism:

    During the third and fourth centuries, thousands of monks known collectively as ‘the desert fathers’ took refuge from the world in the deserts of Syria and Egypt, living in caves or primitive huts, even on top of pillars, sometimes alone, sometimes in small communities. Running from society was a lot easier than running from the body – it has a habit of coming along with you with its bundle of desires and needs, especially those related to women.

    ‘Torture your senses, for without torture there is no martyrdom,’ advised an old monk to a neophyte. The spell of the bed was transfigured into a nightmare of self-loathing, as misogynistic tendencies intensified to psychopathic levels, creating scenes like those from a grade-B horror movie. One ascetic monk, driven crazy with lust, dug up the rotting corpse of a woman, dipped his cloak in her putrefying flesh, smelled it and then buried his face in it. He hoped – undoubtedly with some justification – that this would turn him off women for life.

  156. says

    I’m glad I got my DoublePox Schnapps in early.

    Funny thing about the schnapps… I almost invariably puke it up. That’s not the funny part, the funny part is that I usually ONLY puke up the schnapps. Everything else in my stomach usually stays put, and the schnapps gets booted out like a drunk getting forcibly removed from a party.

  157. The Mellow Monkey says

    Mine is… Fifth Banana.

    I just had one of those terrible “let’s discuss The Future and Babies” discussions that ended in “I’m leaving and I’ll talk to you later.” I feel like such an utter asshole now. Apparently, he’d been waiting until I was no longer sick to bring up Serious Relationship Talk, which I appreciate, but…ugh. I know I hurt him badly with my answers.

    I think tonight is a dark chocolate and Sherlock night.

  158. Aratina Cage says

    Varicella Lemongrass

    Concussion Coconut

    Parotitis Cilantro

    All great ones! Surely there must be a few in the Pea family on Pharyngula, too?
    –Clammy

  159. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    @Mellow monkey.

    Sounds like he’s acting like a little girl. All offended and not amused by your apparent individuel thoughts.
    Mmmmm, dark chocolate and sherlock. I’m right there with you.

  160. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    OMG, I’m squee-ing that so many of you are playing my game of find your Pit Name!

    You shall address me as Impetigo Lima.

  161. says

    MM:

    I just had one of those terrible “let’s discuss The Future and Babies” discussions that ended in “I’m leaving and I’ll talk to you later.”

    Ah hells. Those can run from tough to devastating. My sympathies. Sounds like this one wasn’t easy. A bit of distance is a good thing here. *hugs* ♥

  162. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    And it wasn’t an insult btw. Just a little “fuck him if he can’t handle it”. My five cents, anyway.

  163. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Oh, and also too, I’m invited to a baby shower tomorrow. The invitation notes that the couple is registered at “diapers.com.” Jesus H. Christ tomatoes in a sidecar.

  164. Ermine says

    So that would make my ‘Pit name.. Um.. Jaundice Marmite? Would that be considered an illness? If not, it’d be.. Hepatitis Marmite. Noooooooo!

  165. says

    Jesper:

    Sounds like he’s acting like a little girl.

    Let’s get something very clear here – we do not indulge in gendered slurs/insults nor rank sexism of this kind. It is not a laughing matter, and if you think it is, then going the fuck away would be your best choice.

  166. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Jesper:

    Using gendered terms to call out “shameful” behavior is, in fact, an insult, even when we don’t intend for it to be. It’s the same thing as calling someone’s reaction “bitchy.” Doesn’t matter if the target is a man or woman. The implication is bitch=womanly=bad or worthy of contempt.

    Applies also to “gay” as a synonym for “undesirable.”

    That’s how we roll here.

  167. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    And it wasn’t an insult btw. Just a little “fuck him if he can’t handle it”. My five cents, anyway.

    Than fucking sat that. Nothing wrong with being a little girl. Many of us were at some point.

  168. says

    Jesper:

    And it wasn’t an insult btw.

    The fuck it wasn’t. You compared MM’s partner to a little girl. That pretty much tells of us a lot about how you think, and it isn’t pretty. You were being flat out sexist. There’s no defense.

    By the way, a lot of us here do not fit into the het cis box, so watch it.

  169. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    Thanks for the concern folks. Sorry about my previous, by the light of day and a couple more hours sleep they look a little dramalama.

    The CFA kicked ass once again and the new fire is contained already and more importantly they managed to stop it getting into the bush. Once the bub is old enough to help defend the new, actually defensible house I’m joining up. Helping others in the future is the best way I can think of to repay those keeping us safe right now.

    Chigau, even wet thunderstorms can throw lightning kilometers away from where it’s raining. And it’s dry here in a way that I never experienced back in the old country. So dry that when the weather radar is showing light rain you can be pretty sure none of it’s reaching the ground. It simply evaporates as it falls. It’s going to a good week or so soaking to really make any difference in how flamable everything is. Every fire that has been a concern to us has been started by lighting.

    Anyway, were good, thanks again folks.

    Oh and my ‘pit name: Croup Cilantro

  170. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Damn, that escalated quickly. I’m here to stay, though, like or not.
    Just for the record: I don’t give a sh*t about gender roles.
    A human is a human and I love humans.
    So, up yours. ;-)

  171. Nutmeg says

    Hmm….Scarlet Fever Black Licorice doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. What else don’t I like? Ooh!

    I shall be Scarlet Mango.

  172. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Jesper:

    And since you’re new here, let me offer you some friendly (really, not being snarky) advice. Do not—do not—come back and defend it, or tell people they’re over-sensitive, or that you don’t mean it that way. Don’t. This has been a very serious, very painfully fought issue here, and the reasons we don’t use those slurs are legitimate. Have enough respect, please, to do some reading in the archives and respect the mores built up here as a newcomer who, through no fault of his own, does not have all the backstory yet.

  173. says

    Jesper:

    Just for the record: I don’t give a sh*t about gender roles.

    Let me guess, which you think excuses your sexism. It doesn’t. I don’t give a flying fuck about whether or not you are “here to stay”. Take your sexism and shove it.

  174. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    I learn by doing. That’s how I roll.
    If you guys can’t handle that, then ignore me and I’ll go away eventually.

    You’ll be losing one hell of a scientist, though.
    Your choice.

  175. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Damn, that escalated quickly. I’m here to stay, though, like or not.
    Just for the record: I don’t give a sh*t about gender roles..

    If you actually been paying attention, you would know these two things.

    First, no gendered insults.

    Second, you can fucking spell out swear words.

    Also, if you do not give a shit about gender roles, why the crack about acting like a little girl.

    Or is that beyond gender?

  176. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Caine, if you really think I’m being sexist, what does that tell you about gender roles?

  177. The Mellow Monkey says

    Yeeaaah, no. Ain’t nothing wrong with being a little girl, but a lot wrong with using it as an insult.

    chigau, I may well have been as happy as the wiki babby, too. It was a mild illness for me, and I got to look all cool and colorful!

    Caine:

    Ah hells. Those can run from tough to devastating. My sympathies. Sounds like this one wasn’t easy. A bit of distance is a good thing here. *hugs* ♥

    *hugs* Thanks. I think spending a little time apart for him to sort through his feelings and us both to think is probably the best thing we can do at this moment. We love each other, but there are some serious differences and problems that need to be addressed. I’m hoping this doesn’t turn into a Big Thing, but if it does… c’est la vie.

  178. Aratina Cage says

    Jaundice Marmite? Would that be considered an illness?

    I think so. That’s why I went with Clammy. Oh, and ewwww!

    Scarlet Mango

    Very athy.

    Impetigo Lima

    The original!

    Fifth Banana

    Fifth Banana is going to scare the crap out of the Pitsters. :)

    Anyone for some Thai curry?

    One of my favorites!

    DoublePox Schnapps

    I still love saying your Pit Name. It gives the lips a bit of a workout.

  179. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Jesper, you’re stepping on a land mine. Please don’t do that. Please extend good faith and understand you’re talking to people who are sick to death of sexism, homophobia, ableism, classism, and lots of other thoughtless prejudices. Many have been the targets of this in dramatic ways.

    We all harbor these linguistic tendencies, we’re all soaking in them, and we all make mistakes. This is not a proclamation of JESPER IS EVIL.

    But do learn, and don’t have the insouciance to overplay your hand. You’ve got no cred here yet anymore than I’d have political capital to spend walking into a poker round never having played a hand in my life and demanding the table let me in lest they “lose a hell of a fun guy.”

    Don’t be that guy.

  180. Ogvorbis says

    If you guys can’t handle that, then ignore me and I’ll go away eventually.

    Ignoring sexism, whether overt or covert, intentional or accidental, makes sexism acceptable so no, I will not ignore you when you make a gendered insult.

    You’ll be losing one hell of a scientist, though.

    I’m sure there are scientists out there who understand gendered insults and just why they are bad.

  181. Eurasian magpie says

    I wants to play too! My pit name is…

    Strep cilantro.

    I likes it.

    @Jesper Both Pedersen

    It was clear that Mellow Monkey was talking about a man. So, why did you choose to write “like a little girl” rather than little boy? Think about it.

  182. says

    You know, given the refusal to blockquote and the casual sexism, Jesper is reminding me of Douglas, the top yootube commenter, who refused to blockquote or give any consideration to his casual sexism either.

    Hmmm.

  183. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Nope. I’m not big on archives. They have a tendency to try to define what is wrong and what is right.
    And that’s just silly. Wrong or right depends on the situation, not on the “accepted behaviour”.

  184. says

    You’ll be losing one hell of a scientist, though.

    Yes, yes, you’re a genius. We’re not a lab, why in the fuck would it matter? There are all manner of fields represented here. You aren’t a special snowflake.

  185. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    OK, gloves off.

    Go fuck yourself, asshole. I bent over backwards to be calm and non-accusatory. You’re reacting like an entitled shit head. Guess what? You’re not entitled to anything and people are gonna rip your shit from stem to stern pal.

    Why be such an ass?

  186. Ogvorbis says

    Wrong or right depends on the situation, not on the “accepted behaviour”.

    So you claim there are times when gendered insults are right? Fuck you.

  187. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    I wrote “like a little girl”, because little girls have a tendency to get easily offended. Some boys too, but mostly girls. And no, not all girls behave this way, I know. Stop being so sensitive people. It leads very easily to a sense of “offence”.

    I used to work at a kindergarten btw.
    The kids loved me.

  188. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Jesper, you just might be mistaken about your claim to be here for a long time.

  189. Ogvorbis says

    I wrote “like a little girl”, because little girls have a tendency to get easily offended.

    And xe actually doubles down on hir sexism.

    Please leave.

  190. says

    MM:

    I’m hoping this doesn’t turn into a Big Thing, but if it does… c’est la vie.

    Yeah, there’s not much more to say. At least you know that these talks sometimes result in deal breakers. I really hope that doesn’t turn out to be the case, there’s little sense in ignoring it though.

  191. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    I wrote “like a little girl”, because little girls have a tendency to get easily offended. Some boys too, but mostly girls. And no, not all girls behave this way, I know. Stop being so sensitive people. It leads very easily to a sense of “offence”.

    This from the person who claims not to give a shit about gender roles.

    But the little girls are easily offended. But not all.

    So not sexist.

  192. chigau (違う) says

    Jesper Both Pedersen
    This is the Lounge.
    It is heavily moderated.
    I’m sure the regulars are ready to take this to the Thunderdome.
    How about you?

  193. says

    Janine:

    Jesper, you just might be mistaken about your claim to be here for a long time.

    If this crap continues, I’m sending an alert. I had a feeling, I did, when Jesper first appeared, which is why all he got from me was a “hello” and not a welcome.

  194. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Damn, I hope PZ has a bit more sense of ball to the walls, ladies and gents. So to speak.

    Anyway, it’s his call. Y’all are just being nasty and closeminded atm.

    Good vibes peeps, good vibes.

    *pours another cup og joe, and lights up another cancerstick*

  195. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    So he goes full-on troll. Which one are you a sock puppet of you dumb fuck?

  196. John Morales says

    Jesper:

    Damn, I hope PZ has a bit more sense of ball to the walls, ladies and gents. So to speak.

    You’re harshing the vibe.

    (Take it to Thunderdome)

  197. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Remember this the next time some hand-wringer whines about how people will listen to reason if you just say it to them nicely.

    No, no they won’t, not when they get their kicks being a smegweasel.

  198. Ogvorbis says

    G’night.

    Hitting the road at 4:00am so I gotta go to bed.

    Talk to y’all next month.

    Jesper? Take this to Thunderdome and keep it there. Please.

  199. says

    Y’all are just being nasty and closeminded atm.

    pointing out sexist language is actually neither of those things.

    As an aside, I’d like to point out that the lounge is heavily moderated. Fights like are supposed to be moved to the Thunderdome or else abandoned. Continuing them here will not end well.

  200. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Jafafa Hots, thank you profoundly. I sent an e-mail to your G-mail.

  201. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Yup, spelling can be important sometimes. And alas, there is no edit function.

  202. Ermine says

    Jesper, friendly warning – LISTEN to people here when they take the time to explain something to you! Something that can be resolved at the beginning with a simple “Whoops, you’re right, that was dumb of me, sorry!” can put a serious long-term blot on your reputation if instead you double-down and insist that you’re going to do things your way, whether it hurts others here or not.

    This is the First Rule of Holes: When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING! Really, they’ve got you dead to rights here. You said something unthinkingly sexist, we all do now and then. The question that you’re answering for the rest of us now is, “What happens when they get called on their mistakes?”

    So far, your response isn’t looking very good, and the goodwill of the Horde is likely draining away rapidly. Mine certainly is. Your responses just while I was writing this are almost enough to convince me to write you off already, but I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and finish this reply, giving you the time to read it and (hopefully) stop and -think- for a moment before responding.

  203. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    WMD Kitty:

    Take the name of the first childhood illness/injury you know of then add to it the flavor of food you hate the most.

  204. John Morales says

    Jesper:

    Yup, spelling can be important sometimes.

    Your incapacity is not the issue.

    And alas, there is no edit function.

    Yeah, there is: see the button that is labelled ‘preview’ next to the ‘submit comment’ button?

  205. says

    Jesper: read the OP. THIS IS A HIGHLY MODERATED THREAD. You are being an arrogant ass and breaking all the rules and expectations, while not contributing anything of interest. Keep it up and you will be banned with no regrets on my part…your departure would be no loss at all.

  206. says

    Take the name of the first childhood illness/injury you know of then add to it the flavor of food you hate the most.

    Mumps Budweiser?

  207. John Morales says

    Josh:

    Take the name of the first childhood illness/injury you know of then add to it the flavor of food you hate the most.

    Anglicised, I would be ‘colic brains’.

  208. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Thanks, John. :-)
    I’ll make sure to use that one instead of double posts.

    The hivemind is strong in this one, btw.
    And no, I’m not trolling. Not at the moment, anyway.

  209. says

    The hivemind is strong in this one, btw.
    And no, I’m not trolling.

    great. and who’s going to pay the medical bill for the muscle I just sprained while rolling my eyes at this?

  210. morgan says

    Caine, my apologies, but could you repost the title of the book you are currently reading? I’ve scrolled way back, to no avail, and have tried the search function unsuccessfully. Many thanks.

  211. Aratina Cage says

    Mumps Budweiser

    Hah!! I tried pomegranate flavored Michelob Light a short while ago. Nearly puked.

    colic brains

    *side-piercing pain from laughter*

  212. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Check, PZ. Maybe my lurking days aren’t quite over yet.

    Stay cool peeps, and try to relaxe a bit.
    Smoke some weed, and look at the universe. It’s a brain teaser.

    *goes to the bar and orders some hard liqour, looking grumpily at all the folks that seems to be having fun*

  213. says

    John:

    Anglicised, I would be ‘colic brains’.

    :falls over laughing:

    Morgan:

    Caine, my apologies, but could you repost the title of the book you are currently reading?

    Sure thing. It’s Misogyny: The World’s Oldest Prejudice, by Jack Holland.

  214. The Mellow Monkey says

    You know, I remember years ago, when I said some stupid shit on a message board. I made generalizations about how “women” act in relationships versus how “men” behave. Everyone jumped on me. I got defensive. I left that community. Not long after that, I started figuring out exactly what was wrong with what I had said.

    I feel shame over that. Every time I see someone acting like I did that day, I flash back to that and just feel so ashamed and wish I could take back every stupid, essentialist bit of crap I spewed. I can’t, though. All I can do is watch myself and try to avoid ever doing it again, and apologize if I do, and take every step I can to help improve the world. As awful as that shame is, it keeps me aware of myself and careful.

    I keep hoping that maybe even the ones who double down and refuse to admit that they’re wrong will, eventually, feel that shame and learn from the experience. I don’t think it’s very likely in this case, though.

  215. John Morales says

    Josh, so I asked my SO (I actually asked the question context-free) and her response was ‘Migraine Oyster’.

  216. says

    …Mumps Budweiser?

    …Pneumonia Tofu

    So good. The first has a ’30s ring to it.

    ***

    I tried pomegranate flavored Michelob Light a short while ago. Nearly puked.

    I nearly puked just reading that.

  217. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    @ PZ. Look at the post that started the “trolling”. I was trying to comfort MM.

    The wording was a bit off perhaps, but the intention was fucking real.

  218. Pteryxx says

    I saved this cite via Caine because folks need it so very often.

    NICE GUY™ 101.

    Here’s an excerpt:

    Being an ally is not a destination. It’s a process. Everyone fucks it up sometimes. I have made some spectacular fuckups myself, and that’s with trying to be very, very careful and aware. There is no get-out-of-jail-free card; there is no Magical Incantation. If you catch yourself thinking that of course you’re not like those men, stop and take a good hard look at yourself, because statistically speaking, chances are good that you might be patting yourself on the back and forgetting that you have to walk the walk as well as talking the talk.

    If you consider yourself an ally, and you wind up doing or saying something that gets a really strong negative reaction, and you see one of your friends saying something along the lines of “it’s okay, he’s one of the good guys, it’s not like that”, that should be a warning sign that it’s time to immediately apologize. A real apology, not an “I’m sorry if you were offended” — because that kind of language isn’t an apology at all. You clearly did offend someone, or else the dogpile wouldn’t have happened. “I’m sorry that I offended you, and I’d like to make sure I understand why, so it doesn’t happen again; what I’m getting is that it was such-and-such, and I’m sorry I did that, and if that wasn’t it, I’d like to listen to anything else you have to say…”

  219. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    The wording was a bit off perhaps, but the intention was fucking real.

    *jazzhands*Intent is magic!*jazzhands*

  220. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    @Janine
    LOL

    *makes a futile attempt at jazzhands and goes John Travolta pulp fiction on the dancefloor*

  221. Pteryxx says

    Oh, and new peeps/lurkers, the preview function makes yer paragraphs and links look like hell. It’ll usually come out right in the post. (And youtube links will autoplay unless they’re wrapped in a set of a href= tags.)

  222. says

    Jesper:

    @ PZ. Look at the post that started the “trolling”. I was trying to comfort MM.

    The wording was a bit off perhaps, but the intention was fucking real.

    Crispy Christ onna stick. You just won’t get a fucking clue, will you? What in the fuck makes you think PZ would be impressed by your “intent”? Intent is not magic.

    You’re just looking to be banned, which, at this point, I’d be fine with. You looking to get your pitstar, Cupcake?

  223. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You’ll be losing one hell of a scientist, though.

    *snicker* I don’t think so Tim….

  224. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Caine, please explain how you define sexism.
    If you insist on calling sexism bullshit on this one, I’d like to know how you came to that conclusion.

  225. says

    Mine doesn’t work. Too many words.

    I have a choice between Nocturnal Enuresis Oyster, Transverse Fracture Oyster or Greenstick Fracture Oyster (I was only 4, I know both bones in my arm were broken through but dunno for sure how badly since I was 4).

    If I can alter it a little, I’ll go with Transverse Oyster since I play ocarina (transverse ocarina).
    (It may have just been how the oysters were cooked, though.)

    Problem is I tend to deliberately unremember foods I detest.
    I also don’t know for sure what my first injury or illness was.

    THIS STUFF ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE SO HARD!!!!

  226. says

    MM
    *hugs* Hopefully things turn out well with SO.

    Jesper
    Please stop fucking about in the Lounge. I come here to relax, dammit.

     
    My name would be Impetigo Durian or Head Injury Coconut.

  227. says

    Jafafa Hots:

    I have a choice between Nocturnal Enuresis Oyster, Transverse Fracture Oyster or Greenstick Fracture Oyster (I was only 4, I know both bones in my arm were broken through but dunno for sure how badly since I was 4).

    Oooh, what about Greenstick Oyster? That’s got a swingin’ sound to it.

  228. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Hehe, sorry Dali, I can be a bit rowdy and clumsy at times. But i aim to have fun….

    *cheeeeers*

  229. says

    Jesper, you ignored or snottily dismissed all of the many previous explanations. Why should anyone expect that repeating them means that this time you’ll listen?

  230. says

    I’ve decided that Bitter Dysplasia and Dysplasia Bitters are twins. In a kind of Parent Trap style, one remained in England while the other returned to Italy to exact revenge on the evil Campari clan who’d orchestrated her family’s dislocation in the nineteenth century.

  231. says

    Oooh, what about Greenstick Oyster? That’s got a swingin’ sound to it.

    I like that too.
    Since I can never think of names for my compositions, maybe my next tune will be called “Greenstick Oyster.”

    (Since what I compose ranges from vaguely classical to vaguely impressionist, the names I come up with are usually jarringly ill-fitting.)

  232. John Morales says

    I know it’s petty of me, but I quite dislike entitlement, and I particularly dislike it when people consider a privilege to be a right.

    (Jesper, you’re still here, and this still ain’t the Thunderdome)

  233. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    @Caine

    I guess that’s settled then, and fuck you too.

    *heads of to the thunderdome*

  234. says

    SC:

    I’ve decided that Bitter Dysplasia and Dysplasia Bitters are twins. In a kind of Parent Trap style, one remained in England while the other returned to Italy to exact revenge on the evil Campari clan who’d orchestrated her family’s dislocation in the nineteenth century.

    Oh, perfect!

  235. Aratina Cage says

    Migraine Oyster

    Makes me think of how a tiny octopus might feel slurping down a gigantic oyster.

    I nearly puked just reading that.

    *sorry grin through teeth*

    Bronchitis Okra or Impetigo Bell Pepper

    Impetigo Bell or Impetigo Pepper sound great, too. :)

    Transverse Oyster

    Heehee. I didn’t know oyster was so hated round here.

    THIS STUFF ISN’T SUPPOSED TO BE SO HARD!!!!

    I had the same problem. I went with “steel” because I detest the taste metal forks leave in my mouth.

    Impetigo Durian or Head Injury Coconut

    I like the “H.I. Coconut” potential, but durians are much more dangerous and “I. Durian” isn’t too bad, either.

  236. The Mellow Monkey says

    SC:

    I’ve decided that Bitter Dysplasia and Dysplasia Bitters are twins. In a kind of Parent Trap style, one remained in England while the other returned to Italy to exact revenge on the evil Campari clan who’d orchestrated her family’s dislocation in the nineteenth century.

    Now I desperately want this to be a movie or book.

  237. says

    Greenstick Oyster Jump.

    That would either have to be something from the 1940s or 1950s pop charts, or better yet a rag.
    I could never compose a rag though.

  238. says

    SC:

    I’ve decided that Bitter Dysplasia and Dysplasia Bitters are twins. In a kind of Parent Trap style, one remained in England while the other returned to Italy to exact revenge on the evil Campari clan who’d orchestrated her family’s dislocation in the nineteenth century.

    Could you throw in a little Tomax/Xamot from 1980s G.I. Joe cartoons? You punch one and the other one goes down with a busted lip?

  239. says

    I didn’t know oyster was so hated round here.

    Well I only had them once, it coulda been in the cooking.

    I’d happily try them again as long as an EMT was standing by. (Though I’m far more afeared of crab & lobster, I think I may be allergic.)

  240. says

    well I’m glad I was busy all day long and couldn’t get into the lounge .
    Dalillama, IJoe, Esteleth:
    it looks like opening this restaurant is going to keep me busy for the next few weeks . I do not think I will have the time to work on that special project I mentioned. Dammit.

  241. billingtondev says

    FossilFishy
     
    Wishing you and yours Happy Australia Day!
    Yay for two flags.
     
    Hope those storms have brought some precipitation close and kept the fires at bay. All fingers crossed for you.

  242. says

    The alert I sent about Jesper read “Alert: sexist in the lounge”. Now I have that scene from the first Potter flick of Quirrel running in and yelling “Troll in the dungeon!” running through my head.

  243. The Mellow Monkey says

    Now I feel deprived. Caine’s alert didn’t end with a theatrical fake faint.

  244. says

    MM:

    Now I feel deprived. Caine’s alert didn’t end with a theatrical fake faint.

    Oh dear. Sorry about that. However, don’t despair, Jesper might have a theatrical swooning session soon, in Thunderdome, where he continues his sneering over the notion of sexism.

  245. Aratina Cage says

    (Though I’m far more afeared of crab & lobster, I think I may be allergic.)

    I have been lucky to not know that fear. I have had it happen a couple of times where I ate a spoiled version of a food I loved and, after recovering from that, felt repulsed by it for more than a decade.

    Now I have that scene from the first Potter flick of Quirrel running in and yelling “Troll in the dungeon!” running through my head.

    :) It did kind of go that way.

  246. says

    That would either have to be something from the 1940s or 1950s pop charts, or better yet a rag.

    Huh. My first thought was a rag, but I didn’t like the sound of it, and love the juxtaposition of oyster and jump. I didn’t know jumps weren’t around in the ’30s. Learned something new – thanks!

  247. says

    Could you throw in a little Tomax/Xamot from 1980s G.I. Joe cartoons? You punch one and the other one goes down with a busted lip?

    Ooh, that would be an interesting twist!

    And don’t get me started on the “bittersweet” theme…

  248. carlie says

    Scarletina Brussels, at your service.

    Jafafa Hots, I got my son an ocarina (OF TIME) last Christmas. I learned all the notes it was capable of and a few songs, but then I put it down and probably couldn’t quite do it now without an hour of refresher.

  249. Esteleth, OH NO ZEBRAFISH ABORTION IS MURDER says

    I am seriously not sure if I should be “Concussion Coconut” or “Chigger Infestation Coconut.”

    The concussion came first (I was 18 months old). But does that count? And are chigger infestations more nymworthy?

    Also, I just spent 40 minutes watching Bio-Rad ads trying to determine which is the funniest.

  250. throwaway says

    I would feel honored to be checked on my privilege by any of you. Except PZed, who seems to only correct the most egregious offenses with frightening red text and the scowl of a million demonic brows.

  251. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Ogvorbis: Safe travelling, and have fun.

    I am Ear Infection Peas.

    *hug* for The Mellow Monkey.

    How can you hate the taste of budweiser when it does not have any?

    It haz a flavor, all right—and not a nice one!
    -

  252. runcibald says

    Supposedly PZ has agreed to a discussion on “trolling, internet freedom, and the future of the internet” with youtubers C0nc0rdance, TheSkepticalHeretic and TheTruePooka.

  253. Aratina Cage says

    Scarletina Brussels

    Sounds like a name out of a fairy tale.

    Ear Infection Peas

    Hey! The first child of the Peas family! Welcome. :)

  254. John Morales says

    runcibald, I reckon if PZ had done so, he’d have put it on his blog.

    (Obviously, the clear implication is that he has not done so)

    PS Naked links to YouTube are pointless to me; I will not click on them.

  255. bluentx says

    Concussion Coconut… lounge singer… How convenient for us.

    “Hit it, Esteleth! Show us what ya got!”

  256. Pteryxx says

    The naked youtube link goes to TheTruePooka’s posted video titled “PZMyers, C0nc0rdance, TheSkepticalHeretic &TheTruePooka”. Other videos by the same youtuber include “ZinniaJones: Incorrect X 3″, “GirlWritesWhat and AVoiceForMen: HATE?!” and “ANTI-MALE PEDOPHILIA-HYSTERIA!!!”

    No I didn’t load the video. *patpats Noscript*

  257. billingtondev says

    Catarrh Coriander
    (corinader = the Other *cough proper cough* name for cilantro)
    There’s some discussion that there’s a genetic component to the dislike of coriander. I.e. those that don’t like it have the ability to taste a chemical that others can’t. My daughter hates it as well – neither of us is fussy eaters.
    http://gizmodo.com/5911387/is-cilantro-hating-genetic
     
    I just don’t get it with the Jesper types.
    What exactly is there to lose by paying attention to what people say is acceptable behaviour in their own place? You don’t even have to understand it. Just respect it.
    I’ve been to places where it was not acceptable to; step over other peoples legs; touch someones head without permission; sit on any surface that is used to prepare or serve food; sit on a pillow that someone will use to put their head on – etc. I don’t fully understand all these things – but it cost me absolutley NOTHING to respect them. And to apologise if I screwed up and forgot them every so often.
    I just don’t get it. Or at least trying to get it just jangles my brains.

  258. Aratina Cage says

    @John Morales & Pteyrxx: The link to the blogmeister’s comment-free retweet of TheTruePooka: link. That’s why it seems legit to me.

  259. cicely (Mostly Harmless) says

    Caine:

    Ear Infection Peas

    Otitis Media Peas sounds better. ;)

    At that age, I’m sure I couldn’t tell the difference.
    :D

    [...]or Pox Pea.

    *theatrically throwing arms wide for an embrace*
    Brother!
    :D
    -

  260. bluentx says

    First illness/injury? Who knows, here’s a guess..
    Seperation Anxiety*(Canned) Asparagus**

    * I went home from the hospital a week before my mom was allowed to.
    ** Love fresh, well prepared asparagus. It’s the commercially canned, overcooked crap I can’t stand!

    Just call me: Anxiety Asparagus for short, won’t you?

  261. thunk, hull overheating says

    My most reviled flavour is hard to tell. Most of the foods I would revile the most I have not touched. I’d have to go by smell here.

    Same with my first childhood illness. That would make my name Kimchi Collarbone, or Kimchi Migraine (I love those). I probably have something earlier I can’t quite remember.

  262. says

    Caine:
    That works nicely :)
    ****
    I am having the absolute BEST experience with the new job. I feel respected, desired, appreciated, welcome and just right at home. The restaurant is run by a lovely lesbian couple who feel like the cool older sisters I never had. We have several openly gay employees and I think they said there is a trans* man as well. Everyone I have met is friendly and accepting. I just…wow!
    ****
    Why do I feel driving around in a car with a cracked windshield and dents somehow reflects on my character? I feel like I am going to be judged for having issues with my car. Maybe it is all in my head. Has anyone else ever felt this way?

  263. bluentx says

    ^separation.even.. Hail Tpyos!

    Someone will tell Ogvorbis (when he gets back) that I have reformed. I misspelled Tpyos my first time out! *The Shame, The Shame!*

  264. says

    Tony:

    I feel like I am going to be judged for having issues with my car.

    Anyone who would judge you on that basis is an asshole, so what do you care? Besides, beaters have an advantage – carjackers and car thieves aren’t interested in them.

  265. says

    Tony
    Glad the new job is working out well. The car is a huge, huge, status symbol in the States, and there’s all kinds of cultural bullshit surrounding what car you drive, etc. etc., with all the usual classist, sexists stuff coming into determining what the ‘best’ car to have is.

  266. says

    Threadrupt, but I noticed a call for wiki releases re the commune, so I thought i’d get that out of the way. Anything I say here can be put in the wiki, I hereby release, indemnify, codify, and nixthamilize anything I say here for pharyngula wiki use.

    Off to catch up.

  267. bluentx says

    Tony:
    My first car was a ’67 Dodge Dart– that I got in 1981. Talk about a beater! But I just named it after a B-52’s song and drove it ‘fast as the speed of light’ and went on.* Loved that car!
    *Yeah, I know. Not the right make but close enough.

    Good luck with the job!

  268. says

    Shopping in Bangkok. Read “slim fit” as slimepit in a clothes store. I blame Aratina Cage. And I guess it’s a hint to get off the internet more often…

  269. John Morales says

    Tony,

    I am having the absolute BEST experience with the new job

    It is irrational that this makes me happier.

    (But good)

  270. Aratina Cage says

    Why do I feel driving around in a car with a cracked windshield and dents somehow reflects on my character?

    Tony, you’re in FL, right? Last I heard, windshield repair/replacement is free there by law (insurance company has to pay full amount).

    Read “slim fit” as slimepit in a clothes store. I blame Aratina Cage.

    Heehee. I breathe life into their nightmares of persecution.

  271. says

    ok. I think i’m caught up. Misogynist seems to have vacated, fires seem to be away from the Fishies, Oggie:safe travels, and assorted and sundry other things that have been well addressed by others. It’s amazing how behind one can get when one’s sister visits, then one gets hammered by the flu.

    I just have to mention my pit name: Jaundice Fois Gras. I like it. Sounds like a super spy, or a Batman villain.

  272. bluentx says

    “I breathe life into their nighmares of persecution.”–I just may have to steal that line.
    If/when I get up the nerve to change my ‘religious’ status (to atheist) on FB and post the links/comments I REALLY want to, I’m sure some of my ‘friends’ will cry PERSECUTION!

  273. deoridhe says

    *offers The Mellow Monkey comforting hugs if wanted*

    I so feel you on the whole “flashbacks to a bigoted me” thing. Sometimes I seriously cringe at what I’ve done! I found some sort of peace in figuring out ways to explain why I was wrong and explaining it when I see other people acting like me. It gives me the sense that at least my ill actions aren’t wasted, you know? I can’t change the past, but I can learn from it and try to both be better and bring other people with me.

  274. Pteryxx says

    Anyone up for some technical paper critique?

    Scuse me if folks covered this already, the paper’s from Oct last year – calculating the decay rate of DNA under near-ideal conditions from a set of moa bones:

    By comparing the specimens’ ages and degrees of DNA degradation, the researchers calculated that DNA has a half-life of 521 years. That means that after 521 years, half of the bonds between nucleotides in the backbone of a sample would have broken; after another 521 years half of the remaining bonds would have gone; and so on.

    The team predicts that even in a bone at an ideal preservation temperature of −5 ºC, effectively every bond would be destroyed after a maximum of 6.8 million years. The DNA would cease to be readable much earlier — perhaps after roughly 1.5 million years, when the remaining strands would be too short to give meaningful information.

    http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

    From the abstract:

    Claims of extreme survival of DNA have emphasized the need for reliable models of DNA degradation through time. By analysing mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from 158 radiocarbon-dated bones of the extinct New Zealand moa, we confirm empirically a long-hypothesized exponential decay relationship. The average DNA half-life within this geographically constrained fossil assemblage was estimated to be 521 years for a 242 bp mtDNA sequence, corresponding to a per nucleotide fragmentation rate (k) of 5.50 × 10–6 per year. With an effective burial temperature of 13.1°C, the rate is almost 400 times slower than predicted from published kinetic data of in vitro DNA depurination at pH 5.

    http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/279/1748/4724

    A friend asked me to check it over, and as far as I can tell it looks tight – they covered their butts with multiple repetitions of their qPCR, checked it against collagen extracts and so on – but I can’t tell if they were too generous with their data interpretations to fit them into their decay rate model. That’s where my little two-cylinder math brain burned out. Anyone happen to have an opinion on their choices of datasets here?

  275. says

    Guys, I feel like I’m the only one flagging the hateful comments here.

    Her son received a note/poem from a male admirer, and handled it with grace and understanding, and now she’s getting hate-bombed by horrible, horrible people. Some of them are probably just trolling, but the comments (some threatening!) are still very highly disturbing.

  276. Aratina Cage says

    Concussion Chitlins or Pox Pea.

    Pox Chitterling?

    Or even Chitlin Pox. :)

    Kimchi Collarbone, or Kimchi Migraine

    Kimchi Collarbone it must be!

    Anxiety Asparagus

    Perfect.

    Otitis Media Sashimi.

    Regal sounding.

    O. Pisum

    Hahaha!

    Jaundice Fois Gras

    The ‘pit will never know what hit them.

  277. mildlymagnificent says

    I think I’ll have to go with Mumps Curry.

    Can’t be sure if it’s the first childhood illness – unless you want to include “knocked over by a huuuuge, towering beast in the milking yard when I was four” as the first physical injury I can remember. Mumps was memorable because it ‘hit’ on Xmas Day – I was OK when the first course was served. Finished up in bed, unable to eat my portion of pudding – and crying with the pain because my rotten cousin and my rotten sister made me laugh.

  278. says

    We and our whole community of canons, recognizing that the wickedness of women is greater than all the other wickedness of the world, and that there is no anger like that of women, and that the poison of asps and dragons is more curable and less dangerous to men than the familiarity of women, have unanimously decreed for the safety of our souls, no less than that of our bodies and goods, that we will on no account receive any more sisters to the increase of our perdition, but will avoid them like poisonous animals.

    A 12th century Abbot, on the subject of all those pesky nuns.

  279. Nutmeg says

    Hey, can someone talk me down from a middle of the night “Oh god I have melanoma” freakout?

    I have lots of moles. I’ve already had a few sliced off at the recommendation of my dermatologist. I saw her in September, and she didn’t notice anything wrong with this mole, although I didn’t specifically ask about it. The mole I’m worried about is on my face and appeared a few years ago, with hairs that I need to pluck. A few months ago, it started sprouting a bunch more hairs (I have weird hormonal stuff going on and hair growth everywhere), and of course removing a hair every couple of days causes irritation. So it’s now less flat than it used to be, and it looks bigger but I think that’s scar tissue. Plus I had a big zit there a few weeks ago so there’s zit-related scar tissue too. And there’s also a couple spots darker pigmentation that looks like it’s under the skin.

    Okay, I know that sounds totally terrible and is basically all the warning signs for melanoma. I noticed the changes before Christmas and made an appointment with my dermatologist; that’s Feb. 14th. But now I’m freaking out and thinking that I should have been much more aggressive and I’ve waited too long. So I’m hoping that the darker pigmentation could actually be the roots of hair follicles, and the slight raised-ness is scar tissue and irritation? Or that even if it is melanoma, the changes are too recent for it to have spread?

    I have an appointment with my family doctor next week to get the weird hair growth stuff checked out, and I’ll ask him if he thinks the mole is something that can’t wait 2 more weeks. But if anyone has reassurance that hair growth and scar tissue can make moles look a lot scarier than they really are, that would be great.

  280. says

    Nutmeg, all kinds of things could cause what you describe. It sounds like there’s been a great deal of irritation, so I wouldn’t panic just yet. If you’re really freaked and feel like you’re going to stay freaked, call your dermatologist back up and say you can’t wait, you’re having an extended panic attack and need to see someone now.

  281. Nutmeg says

    Thanks, Caine. I see my family doctor on Tuesday morning, and I have a family member who’s a vet and can look at it before then. If my family doctor thinks it’s freakout-worthy, he can probably get me in somewhere quickly.

    I guess it’s a law of the universe that I must only freak out while everyone in meatspace is sleeping.

  282. says

    Nutmeg:

    I guess it’s a law of the universe that I must only freak out while everyone in meatspace is sleeping.

    Any time I injure myself in a manner requiring medical intervention, it’s on a Sunday in the middle of the night. :D

  283. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Can you call the dermatologist and tell them what you think it might be, get the appointment moved up?

  284. bluentx says

    Nutmeg:
    *hugs* if you want ‘em
    Haven’t had exactly you situation but can empathize.

    11/29/12 I had a biopsy on a cyst/growth. Benign but it seemed to take for ever to hear that.
    This Great American Healthcare System (TM) ya know. Sooo much better that that commie Canadian/British/etc. system where you have to wait fooooor evvver.
    In rural ‘Merica I only had to drive 150 miles round trip, with a 3-4 week delay before getting the OB-GYN appointment,a $50 specialist co-pay fee and wait another two weeks for tests results. During the already stressful holiday season..

    It’s the 21st century and there is not one gyno in my whole county?!With a new multi-million dollar county hospital and half the population female they don’t have even ONE full time gynocologist on staff– just a once-a-month TRAVELING gyno!!!???
    /rant
    So, yes Nutmeg vent all you want! I ‘get’ you and I’ve got your back!(If you want ) ; )

  285. says

    Every last medical emergency I can remember having has happened between 1 and 3 AM. Gallbladder? 2AM. Hernia (incisional, result of removing aforementioned gallbladder)? 1AM. Pinched nerve in back? 1AM. Twice in one week, even.

    I’m honestly not sure how the Emergency dept. stays busy during daylight hours.

  286. says

    Aratina:
    Yes, I live in FL. I have full insurance, so I can get my windshield repaired for free. I just haven’t been able to keep my car in one location for long enough.
    ****
    My date was ‘enh’. Not bad, but there was no chemistry. He seems nice, but I had to work hard to draw a conversation out of him.

  287. Nutmeg says

    Thanks for the reassurances/commiseration, everyone. I’m feeling a little better. Night-owl atheists FTW, eh?

    If my family doctor thinks it’s at all worrisome, I will be super-aggressive about getting things done.

    One of the folks on PET had similar problems with a mole and hormone imbalances, and it resolved when the hormone issues were treated, which reassures me somewhat. Although if slicing the damn thing off so I can stop thinking about it is an option, that sounds pretty good.

  288. bluentx says

    12:07am childbirth- after 17 hours of labor …
    2:00 am emergency room check-in for kidney stones…
    Fun times!
    And that doesn’t include the ER doctor ,when I was 11 y/o. By the time he examined me my back pain had eased so he couldn’t find anything wrong. When my mother was out of the room he told me “Your parents should take you home and beat the shit out of you for lying.!”
    The ambulance driver (who was also one of the local morticians) ‘diagnosed’ my problem on my way out of the hospotal– “Probably a pinched nerve or muscle.”He was right I’ve had both multiple times since.

  289. says

    Or, phone the dermatologist to ask if you can get on a waiting list in the event that someone makes a cancellation — these days all of the specialists and major medical practices seem to send out SMS messages asking for a confirmation 24 hours ahead of the consultation (since missed appointments are expensive wastes of time), so they presumably are in the position where appointments at short notice can become available. Best of luck.

  290. says

    Dalillama, IJoe, Nutmeg, bluentx, chigau:

    Thank you for the well wishes.
    ****

    Hugs to all in The Lounge. I got to discuss this place tonight to our IT/jack of all trades guy. He opened up about his low self esteem and lack of confidence. I shared with him the fact that this community has been a tremendous boon to me.

  291. says

    Good morning
    Totally ‘rupt but slowly feeling better again.
    Even had coffee this morning.

    And now for a moment of internalized female guilt:
    So, I spent most of yesterday in bed (on the plus side, I finally managed to read the first two hunger games books). So, when Mr. came home from work he picked up food, piled up the kids, did laundry, made supper, got the kids ready for bad and I got a damn bad conscience about lying lazily in bed while he was working non-stop. Until I realized that I do this 5 out of 7 fucking days…

  292. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    So I guess my pit name is Dehydration…

    …I’m having a hard time thinking of foods where the taste bothers me more than the texture. O.o

    Let me get back to you on that.

    Also, I went to a bar and totally socialized with like 7 different people :D

  293. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    No, wait, at least twice that.

    *mental counts* yeah, that’s about right. O.o

  294. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Well, talked at some length with 8 people. Met and chatted a little with a few more. It was an organized event, to start with, so that helps, but I wound up wandering over to the bar section. Three members of our group stayed and chatted until about the time I left the bar. Unfortunately, one of them seems to be a global warming “skeptic”* and has some business ties to my company so I had to avoid that conversation. :(

    *Possibly more of a “pathological moderate”, but… >.>

  295. says

    ::Attention Horde::
    Does anyone have experience getting words and/or images printed on clothing (specifically, a tee shirt)? I know nothing about this, but the idea I have is getting individual signatures printed on a shirt. It need not be ultra professional. Time is a factor. A single shirt is all that is necessary at the moment.

  296. says

    Trying to catch up

    re:things
    I think my mum had a pretty clever system: Stuff was regularly packed into boxes and stored in the attic “for later”. Two years later we didn’t give shit and if she asked “can I take this stuff to the children’s hospital?” I was more like “what stuff? Sure!”. Except for some things like books and Legos which the kids “inherit” now. And I’m a sucker for plushies. they’re all still there and they’re getting more. Yes, for my 34th birthday I got 4 plushies, which is more than most people get for their 4th…
    +++

    re: teeth
    #1 has started to lose her milk teeth. Unfortunately, while she lost the left one of the lower front teeth, the right one is already growing with the milk tooth still in place. *sigh* Guess I need to call teh dentist on Monday…

    +++
    Esteleth
    Nah, Giliell is Sindarin, too (Don’t confuse the iell with double L for the Quenya iel like Galadriel.) The Quenya version is Elenyen. Gil as in star (Gil Galad, starlight) and iell is daughter.
    Best wishes for surgeon appointment.

    cicely
    Oh, books are semi-sacred around here, too. I was totally shocked to see my friend throw her already read paperbacks into the recycling bin. OK, they were a waste of paper to start with, but, but, but…

    Fossil Fishy
    Best wishes, take care (I know you will)

    hugs for beatrice
    Of course you’re evil, but so am I ;)

    +++

    Dice! Lots and lots of dice! And rulebooks.

    We’ll carve the dice out of the bones of the slain zombies.

    ++++
    pit name
    Measles Dill

    +++
    The Mellow Monkey
    I’m sorry your talk ended not so well.
    Sometimes different concepts of the future clash hard :(

    +++

    Nothing wrong with being a little girl. Many of us were at some point.

    I have two of them. They can be a pain in the ass but there’s nothing intrinsically bad about them that would make them a fit comparisson for an adult acting badly.
    ++++

    Tony
    Glad you like the job and thanks for the mail ;)
    +++

    Glad you aired out the Lounge…

  297. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Ow. Swollen, throbbing pain that makes me wish whatever creature is burrowing in my head would explode out already so I’ll be put out of my misery.

    Or, you know, my pain meds could just kick in already.

    Saw the dentist, I haz follow up in 2 weeks and will be able to get the big danger stuff done thankfully. I have the cosmetic teeth cover ups to deal with everything else until I get dental insurance (which means I need a stable, good job).

    I see I missed a whole lot. I’ll either catch up or pass back out. In the meantime please know I love you all, and am here for hugs, commiserations or celebrations.

  298. katenrala says

    Still working on my essay of some members the Gay and Lesbian community attacking Asexuals, but I have a question:

    Do any of you find the word “sexual” or “sexuals” offensive as an identifier for non-asexuals? Personally I don’t think it should be considered offensive, but the rules state that bigots must adjust their language so as to not be offensive. I’ve noticed dust-ups over the label and asexuals called bigots by non-asexuals for using the word.

    I won’t use it in my essay if consensus states that it is an offensive and bigoted word for asexuals to use.

  299. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist, with anit to pick) says

    Have a commiserating hug for the pain and a gentle but heartfelt *celebration* for getting your teeth fixed JAL. All offered with a complementary pain med chaser.

  300. katenrala says

    Nutmeg

    *hugs* cancer scares are the worst scares. ;_;

    Tony the Super-Duper Queer Shoop

    Awesome Tony, it’s great to fit in.

    I used to be in theatre since high-school and got my minor in it when I went to university. Theatre people are the nicest, most accepting people I’ve ever met. I would’ve loved a job in that kind of atmosphere.

  301. katenrala says

    Caine, poisoned chalice

    They say it’s offensive and bigoted to use because some groups have their sexuality used as a weapon against them (by other, typically het sexuals) so asexuals are being bigots by contributing to oppression, even though it’s merely a label to us that we generally independently arrived at.

    Person with sexuality PWS is to close for comfort to PWD, person with disability for me, as I’m disabled and a sexuality is not a disability.

    Person of sexuality POS, looks like piece of shit and is too close to POC, person of color.

    Non-asexual makes it seem like asexuals have privilege over sexuals, which many sexuals claim but I intend to address that weird reversal.

    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    The cis thing is exactly what I thought, these people don’t want to be labeled by a sexual minority group.

  302. says

    Katenrala:

    They say it’s offensive and bigoted to use because some groups have their sexuality used as a weapon against them (by other, typically het sexuals) so asexuals are being bigots by contributing to oppression, even though it’s merely a label to us that we generally independently arrived at.

    :sigh: I think it’s fair to say that most everyone has had their sexuality used as a weapon against them. Women have had it used against them for, oh, forever. Men have had it used against them. Every person in the GLBT tent has had it used against them. I’d say that’s pretty much standard.

    We can hardly get rid of sexual, sex or sexuality on that basis. Given asexual, the only possible way to describe non-asexuals (clunky, that), is to use sexual. Just like atheist/theist. I don’t think anyone here will whine about the use of sexual.

  303. strange gods before me ॐ says

    So, I’d want to see links to actual complaints in order to grok them.

    But I suppose it matters what’s being implied. If it’s suggested that sexual people are sexual to the exclusion of other interests, or otherwise hypersexual, or that our romances are less complete or genuine than the romances of less erotophilic people, or that we are more animalistic, or less committed, then yeah that is going to be a problem for gay men especially — no matter who’s implying it — since we are stereotyped in these ways.

  304. Pteryxx says

    katenrala: that’s the impression I got too, ‘how dare you people stick a LABEL on US!’ when ‘sexual’ just makes sense as a counter to ‘asexual’. (and it’s the safest option I could think of – sexualized? *sexual? (HELL NO) sexualists? sex-with? yessexuals?) Short of inventing some new term, especially with the intended audience having a clue about sexualities and oppression, I’d go with what you have – heck, maybe address this reaction as part of your essay. As one of these sexuals it doesn’t bug me at all except for my grammar danger-sense (I’d better not say “I’m a sexual” in either text or speech without clarifying…)

    OT I’m also curious, what do you think of the QUILTBAG acronym, or GSM (Gender and Sexual Minorities)?

    ———

    *offers hugs to JAL* Good luck with the pain meds.

  305. katenrala says

    Caine, poisoned chalice

    Thank you.

    I think I’ll stick with my instinct and use sexual/s unless someone can argue a good point I can agree with. I’ve had my sexuality used against me, which is the inspiration of the essay, and face-palmed when I read a post by a trans* person I respect say sexual/s is bigotry and she’d be cutting off contact and blocking those “privileged” asexuals who use the label.

  306. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    *enters the bar and looks around. Hmmm….whiskey and stokey time. Asks the bartender to put on some decent tunes*

  307. says

    Katenrala:

    I’ve had my sexuality used against me, which is the inspiration of the essay, and face-palmed when I read a post by a trans* person I respect say sexual/s is bigotry and she’d be cutting off contact and blocking those “privileged” asexuals who use the label.

    Woah. That’s nasty. Projection can be a bad, bad thing.

  308. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    *hits the ignore button and subtlely makes up his mind that some american atheists bigoted sheep*

  309. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Nah, I’m just hanging out, just ignore my posts please. This is the lounge.

  310. says

    Jesper:

    Nah, I’m just hanging out, just ignore my posts please.

    It doesn’t work that way here. If you do not take your troll act back to Thunderdome, I will send another alert. Get a fucking clue already.

  311. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Just alert PZ and get it over with, caine.

    I’m a sexist wolf who doesn’t understand cool cats like you.;-)

    *takes another sipp of whiskey and lights up a cancerstick*

  312. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    Besides, I have a feeling that you already made up your mind when you read my name.

  313. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    *ponders about the meaning of the word “liberal” and takes another sipp of whiskey*

  314. Beatrice says

    While yes, it’s perfectly fine to wander into somebody’s lounge, spit into everyone’s drink, offend their cat, grope the bartender and argue when people accuse you of being an asshole.
    Next day, you wander into their lounge again and say “oh, just ignore me” when everyone warily covers their drinks.
    Some people…

  315. Beatrice says

    doesn’t understand cool cats like you

    offend their cat

    My cat was randomly inserted and had nothing to do with any regular or Jesper’s cat.

  316. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    *hmmmm, wonders about what will happen if all the bees in the world suddenly disappeared*

  317. Jesper Both Pedersen says

    *contemplates the meaning of life and considers eating cats from now on. Like the fucking wolf he is*

  318. katenrala says

    @strange gods before me

    So, I’d want to see links to actual complaints in order to grok them.

    I’ll dredge some up. On one hand I find them hurtful because of my intersectionalities and the erasure of many the same intersectionalities I share with sexuals, on the other hand I just wanted to save it for the essay, but on the gripping hand I understand the need for others to see them.

    http://missvoltairine.tumblr.com/post/13258332827/why-i-will-not-engage-with-anyone-who-insists-on-using

    http://missvoltairine.tumblr.com/post/10423350493/so-were-not-allowed-by-the-powers-that-be-to-use

    2 illustrations from some person I’ve never read before. They even pull the asexuals think sexuals are icky thing.

    Oh and it’s the asexuals fault for dividing the “community.” What community though? We’ve an invalid orientation.

    But I suppose it matters what’s being implied. If it’s suggested that sexual people are sexual to the exclusion of other interests, or otherwise hypersexual, or that our romances are less complete or genuine than the romances of less erotophilic people, or that we are more animalistic, or less committed, then yeah that is going to be a problem for gay men especially — no matter who’s implying it — since we are stereotyped in these ways.

    I understand what you mean, and I think the surface appearance of the “fight” if one were to call it that stems from the collision of right-wing and Christian hatred for Gays and Lesbians and a implicit assumption among the Gay, and Lesbian community that asexuals think themselves superior to sexuals and that asexuals are all slut-shamers by some inescapable trait of our characters.

    But I think the actual reasons for the fight is that people of minority sexualities other than LGBT are making themselves more visible, and it seems an assortment of white Gay and Lesbian people, and a few “progressive” Het people who know that other sexual minorities exist, of influence want to define what is “properly not straight” and have become the gatekeepers of valid non-straight sexuality and invalid non-straight sexuality.

    @ Pteryxx

    katenrala: that’s the impression I got too, ‘how dare you people stick a LABEL on US!’ when ‘sexual’ just makes sense as a counter to ‘asexual’. (and it’s the safest option I could think of – sexualized? *sexual? (HELL NO) sexualists? sex-with? yessexuals?) Short of inventing some new term, especially with the intended audience having a clue about sexualities and oppression, I’d go with what you have – heck, maybe address this reaction as part of your essay. As one of these sexuals it doesn’t bug me at all except for my grammar danger-sense (I’d better not say “I’m a sexual” in either text or speech without clarifying…)

    Yeah, I strongly feel it’s a “how dare you label us!” thing as erasure seems part and parcel of the complaint. Asexuals apparently live perfect un-oppressed lives while every other sexual minority is in the trenches fighting and traumatized.

    OT I’m also curious, what do you think of the QUILTBAG acronym, or GSM (Gender and Sexual Minorities)?

    QUILTBAG has always felt like a subtle slur or jab or a “don’t take ‘em seriously” at sexual minority activism. Maybe I’m weird.

    GSM? That seems very inclusive.

  319. says

    From one of Katenrala’s links:

    +Because dividing people into binary categories of “sexual” and “non-sexual” is a STAPLE of enforcing dynamics of marginalization and privilege – where MARGINALIZED PEOPLE are seen as inherently sexual, and therefore dirty, untrustworthy, incapable of real feeling, and most of all unrapeable, while PRIVILEGED PEOPLE are seen as non-sexual, and therefore pure, innocent, intelligent and compassionate, and most of all worthy of protection and empathy.

    +And therefore when I see people repeatedly referring to anyone who does not identify as asexual or demisexual as “a sexual” or “sexuals”, and talking about “sexual privilege” and “sexual supremacy”, what I see is someone erasing centuries of MULTIPLE, intersecting oppressions – throwing whole classes of people under the bus, and I hesitate to use that phrase because it is so violent, but that’s what this denial is: it’s a violent denial, violent in that it erases and obfuscates so much real violence, and that erasure is a big part of what enables that violence in society already. It’s harming people, directly, specifically, in order to further discourse about an idea and identity that is still fairly new and still finding it’s place, and that does not bode well for me at all.

    While there are valid points in all that, there’s a considerable amount of conflation going on and context and intent are being ignored. If a person is sexually active, they are sexual. Saying that is not the same as saying sexual privilege or sexual supremacy. All this is rather new to me, so if I’m missing something, please point it out.

  320. rq says

    I would like to join the Coconut family, as Purpura Coconut.
    If they will not accept me, I will gladly be Purpura Whitefish instead.

    +++

    I think Monday will be the day it actually happens.

    +++

    Lurking, reading, learning. All the time, from all of you. (heart)

  321. katenrala says

    Caine, poisoned chalice

    I especially like the part where asexuality is a new identity, as if we just popped up out of the weeds, and we need “gardeners” to police inter-asexual discourse.

    Sexual is merely a label to mean not-asexual, as is allistic to not-autistic, as is cis to not-trans*, and probably a bunch of words I’m not privy to because I’m not part of every group. The English language isn’t equipped to handle everything so new words or old words with new meanings get used when groups of particular identities are communicating with themselves.

    I’d contend that very privileged people are seen as not-sexual, but they are also not seen as asexual. Most people don’t even know asexuality exists and we are confused for gay or lesbian or bi or queer, some of us are queer, by the majority, and just like gay, lesbian, and bi people, we face the same legal and secular challenges in society. I can marry the male friend I’m in love with, I’ve been beaten for being a “fag,” I’ve been raped, I’ve could have been murdered if the wrong people sniffed me out, I’ve had my own closet to be in and find the courage to come out of, but the violence asexuals share with sexuals is dismissed and erased.

    This is ugly stuff so I’m trying to tread carefully, but it’s also very enraging, unfair stuff. The Hets need picking on, not a tiny minority of a minority.

  322. katenrala says

    @ Caine, poisoned chalice

    All this is rather new to me, so if I’m missing something, please point it out.

    No you’re not missing anything. It is the conflation and shredded context by sexuals that is the problem.

    Can’t we have our own word when communicating to ourselves? Apparently not.

    LGBT and A are natural allies, but we have to be pushed away for some reason.

  323. Cannabinaceae says

    “Varicella Vinegar”, although the troll has uglified the whole thread in a most distasteful manner, so how about “Chicken Pox Troll”.

  324. says

    Katenrala:

    LGBT and A are natural allies, but we have to be pushed away for some reason.

    I understand and I empathise. I’m a B and back in the day, we had to fight like hell to be recognised at all, and even when we were, we found ourselves being reviled by everyone else. Some days, there’s no winning for losing.