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Dating tips!

Rats, it’s too late. If only the girls had studied these dating tips back in the day, I might not have grown into the sullen, resentful, entitled git illustrated here.

dancing

driving

And my favorite…

deserve

There’s the root of the whole problem! Men deserve your complete and total attention at all times!


While we’re on the subject of how the wimminz ought to behave, I should mention the F00t’s new video, titled, “Do Hot Girls Have All the Advantages?” Yep, it’s about how women have an edge by just being pretty.

Let that sink in for a bit.

Oh, I wish I were pretty! Then there’s an interesting reply: Why Can’t Thunderf00t Be More Like Indiana Jones? Isn’t it interesting how we can overlook superficial attributes in a man, but they’re always prioritized in women? And how some people can look on this skewed perspective as advantageous for women?

Although, I have to say, I don’t expect the guy to look like Indiana Jones, but am just dismayed at how he’s looking more and more like Pat Robertson every day. Robertson recently fielded a question from a young viewer about how he was troubled that his father seemed to be growing more distant from his mother; his answer was basically that his mother just wasn’t pretty enough, which was why all the romance is leaving the marriage.


One more: misandric pants.

Comments

  1. rowanvt says

    I really like the second one. “Man needs it in driving…” I imagine that sentence being accompanied by chest pounding and grunts.

  2. Sastra says

    To be fair to the disgruntled man in the restaurant who deserves, desires his date’s entire attention, it would be rather disgruntling to have your date babbling on and on to the headwaiter about how much fun she had while on a date with some other guy. Though I suppose it’s possible that this other guy was ever so much fun ’cause he didn’t demand her entire attention — and she’s making a point.

    You go, girl.

  3. Karen Locke says

    How on earth can you be a sullen, resentful, entitled git when you have such a wonderful Trophy Wife?

  4. rq says

    Third down (at the link – Don’t sit in awkward positions) was my favourite, especially Man’s expression. Then the last three. I’m surprised there isn’t one about not-smoking (because Man hates the smell of cigarettes on women – florals only, please!).

  5. IslandBrewer says

    I like, (paraphrased) “Don’t be sentimental – Man no like talking ’bout emotion things!”

    It truly is ooky talking ’bout emotion things. Man no like.

  6. Rodney Nelson says

    Whenever I’m in a car I’m quite annoyed when someone uses the rearview mirror to adjust their makeup, especially when they’re driving.

  7. Skeptic Dude says

    FYI PZ the gulf of manliness between T-foot and Indiana is not nearly as vast as the one between you and T-Foot.

  8. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    @Skeptic Dude
    I’m not entirely sure how to parse your word salad.

    Are you a Thunderbigot fan who thinks they deserve, desire attention?

  9. Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts says

    ROTATO’s link is to an MST3K clip, for everyone’s information.

  10. jba55 says

    It really does seem like it should be read in caveman/Hulk style. “Man no like date! Man smash!”

    Although to be fair, drinking til you pass out is actually pretty good advice, although not so much because it might make Man unhappy.

  11. Aratina Cage says

    Then there’s an interesting reply: Why Can’t Thunderf00t Be More Like Indiana Jones?

    The side-by-side of him and Ford–ouch. That has to burn.

  12. Beatrice says

    Someone is having a conversation somewhere on the Internet that is not about Thunderfoot. Better find them and correct their mistake right now, Skeptic Dude. Hurry up, there might even be more than one such conversation. Good luck finding them all, take your time. Buh bye!

  13. says

    Yup. Women have all the advantages because they’re pretty.

    FUN FACTS:

    1. There are no unattractive women! They, uh… they don’t exist. Right.

    2. Women never age! They just kind of… disappear.

    3. Handsome men never receive advantages that unattractive men don’t! And, when they do, it’s proof that women are shallow.

  14. says

    Speaking of waiters, some years ago I encountered the best dating advice ever:

    Pay very close attention to how your date treats the waiter/waitress. That will be the way s/he will treat you eventually.

    P.S.; entirely unrelated: it took me long enough to get rid of that stupid green geometric thingy instead of a proper profile pic.

  15. mudpuddles says

    “Misandric pants”

    That’s just an awesome name for any product. I’m getting me a pair. Don’t care if they’re for gils, I want them just so I can tell people I have misandric pants.

    I shall wear them over my feminazi knickers, and hold them up with my ball-buster belt.

    I’m gonna look so flippin’ cool.

  16. karpad says

    For what it’s worth, if you go out on a date with someone, then spend pretty much any length of time chatting with the waitstaff about what a good time you had on some other date with some other person, that is super, super rude.

    But it also isn’t gendered. If he spent the date chatting with a waitress over how much Wild Wing Wednesday was when he and his buddies showed up to watch the game, that’s still a dick move. Or talking about how pretty the last girl he brought was, perhaps thanking the restaurant for providing such a good time since she put out and this totally isn’t being directed as a passive aggressive thing at my current date either.

    If you’re on a date, you do actually owe your attention to the person who you came with.

    But I’m probably overthinking this.

  17. says

    I actually watched Wooly Bumblebees “misandric pants”
    So, she buys pants for her daughter (9.99$) and 1% of the net proceeds (now you can guess how much that’ll be) goes to charities supporting education and clean water for girls in the 3rd world.
    And that’s misandric because it’s not for boys.
    Must. think. of. the. men.
    Who cares that boys get sent to school much more often?
    Those poor kids of her…

  18. Beatrice says

    Ups. I only now realized that PZ added bits to his post (I was wondering why the hell people were talking about misandric pants). So I guess Skeptic Dude didn’t start talking about Thunderfoot on an unrelated topic after all.

  19. Stacy says

    Wooly Bumbler has 4 daughters. How sad is that?

    And that poor kid liked those pants. Sorry, honey, mommy is outraged that .09 cents might go to help a little girl in Pakistan go to school.

  20. mythbri says

    Huh. Seems like the crowd that screams “Misandrist!” at western feminists are now in denial that women face systemic discrimination and disadvantages in much of the world.

    ….

    ….

    Huh.

  21. screechymonkey says

    Giliell:

    So, she buys pants for her daughter (9.99$) and 1% of the net proceeds (now you can guess how much that’ll be) goes to charities supporting education and clean water for girls in the 3rd world.
    And that’s misandric because it’s not for boys.
    Must. think. of. the. men.
    Who cares that boys get sent to school much more often?

    I guess it just goes to show — for anyone who actually doubted it — that the “Dear Muslima”/”FirstWorldProblems” sneer is just a cynical ploy and not an expression of genuine concern for the plight of women in other countries.

  22. Nick Gotts (formerly KG) says

    Cross-posted from the “misandric pants” thread on Man Boobz

    To get back to the “misandric pants” for a moment, improving the education and status of girls in poor countries is probably the single most beneficial goal for everyone there: it leads to smaller families in the next generation, which means lower infant mortality, better health, and more resources for the children of that generation, lower unemployment when they grow up, a more equal sex ratio so the boys who want to find a wife when they reach adulthood have a better chance of doing so, less environmental damage… Opposition to prioritising women and girls isn’t “anti-misandrist” – it’s anti-human.

  23. mythbri says

    Opposition to prioritising women and girls isn’t “anti-misandrist” – it’s anti-human.

    Psssst….Nick Gotts! Women aren’t human. The real ones are the ones with penises.

  24. Ogvorbis: Uncomfortable because I relly do feel good. says

    While we’re on the subject of how the wimminz ought to behave, I should mention the F00t’s new video, titled, “Do Hot Girls Have All the Advantages?” Yep, it’s about how women have an edge by just being pretty.

    Yet another Irony Meter (Creationist Strength (my pasty white arse!)) gone. Tried to hit a 33 on a scale of 1 to 11. Cheap piece of shit.

  25. johnmarley says

    @danielwaddell
    I didn’t watch more than 5 seconds of that. The scare-quotes told me all I need to know. Thanks.

  26. rowanvt says

    @ 40, ahah-

    I am hereby submitting a request for exactly 1 minute 10 seconds of my life to be returned to me.

    I am also enclosing the following bit of mockery:

    PZ is only a so called ‘blogger’? Is this not a blog right here? Are you *really* that stupid you had to scare quotes the word blogger and act like he doesn’t blog? The idiocy, it BURNS.

    Thank you and I look forward to my reimbursement.

  27. Nepenthe says

    @Zinc Avenger

    I’m now going to chat up every head waiter I meet as a precautionary measure.

  28. Becca Stareyes says

    … Great, now I have Emilie Autumn’s “Thank God I’m Pretty”stuck in my head. For those who don’t want to google the lyrics, it’s a very sarcastic song about how women can’t win: ‘ugly’ women get ignored, while ‘pretty’ women get distilled down to their looks/sex appeal and are supposed to be flattered by this.

  29. mudpuddles says

    Oh good freaking Jebus, I just watched that misandric pants video in full.

    What the fucking hell???? That has GOT to be a parody, in all seriousness.

    Either that, or Wooly Bumblebee is Alex Jones’ twin. Conspiracy!!!!!

  30. DLC says

    A Guy is only doin it for some Doll. Poor menz has to be manly and tough all the time, when he really wants to be nice, an sensitive. youse dolls don’t appreciate what us guys go through.

  31. Ogvorbis: Uncomfortable because I really do feel good. says

    nightshadequeen:

    I think DLC is being sarcastic. It’s hard to be serious when quoting from the Broadway Musical Guys and Dolls. I may be wrong, of course, but I think that is sarcasm.

  32. says

    Wow. There is so much wrong with f00t in mouth’s latest creation it’s hard to cover all the bases. The Indiana Jones link was genius. The comments here good.

    I can think of one more to add: Searching for Debra Winger. If you have not seen this documentary it’s a must. Whoopi Goldberg’s segments are hilarious and there’s a group discussion in which they tell their war stories.

  33. says

    DLC, are you being sarcastic?

    Doll(s) = 1st clue
    the ‘z’ in “menz” = 2nd clue
    youse = 3rd clue

    Clues, how many do you need? [/closed-captioned for the sarcasm impaired]

  34. says

    The Indiana Jones link was genius.

    Mildly funny, I’d say. And I note that it repeats the old “PZ Myers kicked TF00l off FTB” canard.

  35. Ogvorbis: Uncomfortable because I really do feel good. says

    When you see a gent
    Paying all kinds of rent,
    For a flat that could flatten the Taj Mahal:
    Call it sad, call it funny,
    But it’s better than even money,
    That the guy’s only doin’ it for some doll!

  36. says

    I guess it just goes to show — for anyone who actually doubted it — that the “Dear Muslima”/”FirstWorldProblems” sneer is just a cynical ploy and not an expression of genuine concern for the plight of women in other countries.

    I’m shocked–shocked I tell you!

  37. says

    Hmm… something about these dating tips, especially the last couple, suggests they might not be offered entirely in earnest. Put me in mind a bit of a song recorded in 1940 by the Southern Moonlight Entertainers, “How to Make Love” — addressed to the guys, a list of do’s rather than don’ts:

    Do you want your girl to love you?
    Do you want to be her beau?
    Well, I’ll tell you how to do it boys.
    I’ll tell you all I know.
    Put on your bib and tucker
    And scrub your face real hard.
    Part your hair right down the middle, boys,
    And slick it down with lard.

    Put your derby hat on sideways.
    Pull your pegged-up pants up short.
    Get a big bow tie on a rubber band
    And show her you’re a sport
    Buy yourself some drug-store perfume
    And sprinkle it on your clothes
    Just a dime’s worth will be plenty, boys,
    To tickle her little nose.

    . . . . . . . . . .

    Brag about her family.
    Her grand-dad and her pap.
    And before you know it
    She’ll be a-settin’ on your lap.
    Tell her she’s so purty
    She takes away your breath
    And before you know it
    She’ll be a-huggin’ you to death.

    Oh but if she will not love you,
    Just make her jealous then
    Tell her you love somebody else;
    That she is just a friend.
    Take her out to dances
    And flirt with the other girls
    Hug ‘em close and whisper soft
    And give ‘em all a whirl.

    Laugh out loud with the others
    But with your girl don’t you speak
    And when she comes around you, boys,
    Just turn away you cheek.
    Just follow these directions
    And she will be your wife.
    Or else she’ll marry somebody else
    And hate you all her life!

  38. travisrm89 says

    If you had even bothered to watch the video, you would know that it isn’t about Thunderf00t complaining that hot women have an edge just because they are pretty. He pointed out that attractive women tend to get more attention, but that this can have downsides because it sometimes means that that their message isn’t being heard as well because people are too focused on their looks. Moreover, he praised Ana Kasparian for handling with grace the critical comments she receives, despite the fact that those comments are sometimes aimed at the way she looks.

    There are legitimate things to criticize about Thundef00t, but you lose all respectability when you completely exaggerate and misrepresent everything that he does.

  39. says

    travisrm89:

    Moreover, he praised Ana Kasparian for handling with grace the critical comments she receives, despite the fact that those comments are sometimes aimed at the way she looks.

    And you don’t see the problems with that, do you?

  40. ckitching says

    I wonder how many supposed “long time readers” will leave due to this mention of Tfoot. Amazing how they could manage to miss all the other mentions of him, until they have to inexplicably leave on this mention.

  41. anathema2 says

    @ travisrm87:

    I watched the video. Thunderf00t essentially said that women shouldn’t complain about sexism on the internet because that’s just asking for trolls to harass them.

    If you don’t see how this sort of victim-blaming and this whole sexism-will-only-go-away-if-we-ignore-it mentality are, then I really don’t know what to say to you.

  42. travisrm89 says

    @anathema2,

    I didn’t get that impression from the video at all. Trolls are never going to go away as long as the internet exists, so advising someone to ignore them is just practical advice. If he were saying that she should ignore sexist comments from her coworkers or from other prominent members of the atheist community, that would be different.

  43. Amphiox says

    He pointed out that attractive women tend to get more attention, but that this can have downsides because it sometimes means that that their message isn’t being heard as well because people are too focused on their looks.

    And in his next video, perhaps he’ll point out that the sun rises in the east.

  44. says

    I did once yell at a young woman who grabbed the rear-view mirror in order to primp. I snatched it back and realigned it, fuming all the while. She was miffed that I had objected. I was really upset by it. Fortunately, I never had another occasion to give her a ride. (It wasn’t a date. I was just giving her a lift, along with a coworker who was friends with her.)

  45. says

    travisrm89:

    Trolls are never going to go away as long as the internet exists, so advising someone to ignore them is just practical advice.

    It’s not only not practical advice, it’s bad advice. Extremely bad advice. I’ll also point out that there’s a difference between ‘net trolls and groups of people systematically engaging in threats and harassment, and keeping that harassment going for close to two years. Seems to me you’re just another person who is happy to *handwave* sexism away.

  46. says

    They’re not trolls, the people we’re talking about. Thunderfoot is lying, as per usual, when he characterizes them that way. As Anita Sarkeesian noted, they organize their efforts to systematically harass certain targets and reinforce each others’ efforts with praise and bragging. They use troll tactics, but they are utterly sincere about their misogyny and their burning desire to never be confronted with a woman who breaks from the ambulatory fuckhole/baby machine archetype.

  47. mildlymagnificent says

    Isn’t it interesting how we can overlook superficial attributes in a man, but they’re always prioritized in women?

    Turns out we don’t overlook them. http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/management/good-looks-bring-a-handsome-return–32000-a-year-20130106-2cb65.html

    For those who don’t want to bother with the link, that $32000 is the difference between the highest and lowest ratings for men’s appearance, not the advantage over average. In fact, the disadvantage of below average looks costs more than the advantage of good looks gains in terms of employment, wages and marriage.

    The differences for women are less clear. But the article has some interesting stuff if you want to look further.

  48. travisrm89 says

    @SallyStrange: It’s different because you can’t help what some anonymous person on the internet says. There are always going to be anonymous idiots on the internet. But if it’s someone that actually has some amount of importance in your community, then you should speak up about it. You have to pick your battles, and battling internet trolls is useless.

  49. rowanvt says

    @69-

    Except that by maintaining silence with the ‘trolls’, you’re basically telling people that what they are doing is just fine and dandy. By saying nothing, other people begin to pick up those behaviours as acceptable.

  50. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    You have to pick your battles, and battling internet trolls is useless.

    Not here. It is required to battle trolls to prove their idiocy. We feed them until they explode. Otherwise, lurkers don’t know who they should listen to…

  51. stevenbrown says

    If Ana received the kind of systematic, organized abuse that feminists in the skeptical community are receiving TYT would have their lawyers out documenting it and passing it on to the authorities. Those same lawyers would follow it up and make sure these people got the message.

    Sadly most bloggers don’t have that kind of cash so they have to fight it the only way they can: by calling people on their behavior and trying to make it unacceptable in their organizations.
    Ignoring trolls doesn’t do ANYTHING. They might go away eventually, although that doesn’t always work, but they will still have the same misguided ideas, still think those ideas are acceptable and will still attack the next person to speak out against them.
    It takes more backbone to stand up to those fuckers every day that it takes to ignore them and pretend everything is peachy when it’s not.

  52. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    But if it’s someone that actually has some amount of importance in your community, then you should speak up about it. You have to pick your battles, and battling internet trolls is useless.

    You are mistaken. We have people delurking all of the time, thanking us for taking on these trolls. Usually it falls into two categories; people who like that the troll is being challenged and people who claim that they learned a new argument to use in RL.

    It is never just you and me here. We have hundreds, maybe thousands, reading what we are doing. And some of them are actually learning from the interactions here. And some have claimed to be encouraged to stand for themselves, that they are not alone in how thet think or present themselves.

  53. says

    I think I’ll find some long-established blog with a large and extremely active commentariat, be sure not bother to familiarize myself with that blog or community and what has transpired there, and then proceed to tell them that the things they do, the details and effect of which I am ignorant of, are bad and damaging.

    Yeah, that. Think I’ll do that.

    Also I’m gonna go find a bunch of people to hound me and pester me so I can ignore them so they’ll go away.

  54. travisrm89 says

    @Janine: Fair enough. I think you make some reasonable points. But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t. It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

  55. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Thunderingfool is a liar. One cannot have a debate with a liar.

    Also, when Thunderingfool joined FtB, it was him who went on the attack against everyone on this network. Most of us, bloggers and readers, were genuinely happy that he joined.

  56. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t. It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    Then show conclusive evidence TF is not a sexist MRA pig. PUT UP OR SHUT THE FUCK UP. Your OPINION is irrelevant. Let the EVIDENCE speak, not you.

  57. says

    @ travisrm89

    Thunderf00t’s video, although on the surface may appear supportive of women, by focusing on Kasparian he missed the larger point: that for the most part women who appear on camera tend to be very attractive because they have to be in order for them to appear on camera, but men do not have to be attractive and they appear on camera nonetheless. Comparing and contrasting her with Cenk came close to this realization, but oh, so close yet still so far. Having all the same sort of qualities and talent that makes Cenk a good commentator is not enough for most women. That is the problem I alluded to with my reference to the documentary about actresses who Hollywood turfs out shortly after they turn 40. I probably should have made that point more clearly. Mea culpa.

  58. rowanvt says

    You don’t think that his desire to be able to hit on women, and even physically touch them, whenever *he* wants is sexist? You don’t think that a guy feeling he has the *right* to violate my personal space is sexist of him?

    WTF DO you think is sexist then?

  59. travisrm89 says

    @rowant: I might be wrong, but I don’t think Thunderf00t has ever said that men have the right to touch women whenever they want.

  60. rowanvt says

    Actually, he has. Right at the beginning of all this, he said that getting consent to touch a woman ‘ruins the mood’ and that if he wants to bite a woman’s leg, he should just be able to do it.

  61. says

    travisrm89:

    But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t. It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    Gee, what happens when one side is obviously and unashamedly sexist? Because that’s what is going on here.

    I’m reminded a great deal of jacksul here, right down to my apparent invisibility.

  62. Anri says

    But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t. It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    Speaking for myself, I don’t hate him.

    I’m facehoofingly disappointed in him.
    I’m saddened that he’s using a pretty decent intellect and highly visible bully platform to essentially tell women to sit down and shut up about all this ‘equality’ nonsense.
    I’m enraged and baffled that he has shown such triple-hulled resistance to even the most basic and obvious facts about the way the world – even (or sometimes especially) the wealthy first-world parts of it – treats women.

    But no, I don’t hate the man.

    And, I must admit confusion – if we’re fighting against sexism, wouldn’t the ‘other side’ be, pretty much by definition, sexist? We can assume apathy only so long as the people involved aren’t being active, and ignorance only so long as they have not been educated. As neither of these apply to TFoot, what’s left?

  63. rowanvt says

    In fact, if I remember correctly, he was against anti-harassment policies because they would require he get written consent in triplicate before touching anyone and that would make everything no fun.

  64. bovarchist says

    So let me get this straight:

    PZ has his BVDs in a bunch because some 50 year old article dares to make a few reasonable suggestions for how women should treat men with courtesy and respect.

    BUT

    He also has has his BVDs in a bunch because people criticized Rebecca Watson for making unreasonable suggestions for how men should treat women with courtesy and respect.

    Thank you. Carry on.

  65. travisrm89 says

    @rowanvt: I feel like that quote, if true, had to be in the context of already being in bed with someone.

  66. rowanvt says

    @88. Nope. He was at a convention. Complete with picture of him biting a woman’s leg (who was a friend of his, and okay with it). But he did not say “biting the legs of my friends”… just biting women’s legs. Your hero’s knightly armor is starting to look a little tarnished, isn’t it.

    @86. So men *deserve* the undivided attention of women? We’re only there to dutifully gaze upon men adoringly so they feel fulfilled? *Men* get to sit however they want, but women have to sit daintily? And the stereotypes about women and makeup and that women are incapable of holding their alcohol is all perfectly fine and dandy too?

  67. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I feel like that quote, if true, had to be in the context of already being in bed with someone.

    What you feel or think isn’t evidence. EVIDENCE comes from outside of you and your OPINION. We know the citation, as folks have quoted it here from when it was first given. It is hyperbole, and not what anybody wanting written harassment policies said or would expect. Typical of MRA thinking to exaggerate reality.

  68. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    @rowant: I might be wrong, but I don’t think Thunderf00t has ever said that men have the right to touch women whenever they want.

    You ARE wrong. Why do you think you’re entitled to jump into this conversation and be listened to on an equal footing, let alone an authoritative one, when you know nothing about the subject?

  69. says

    travisrm89:

    I feel like that quote, if true, had to be in the context of already being in bed with someone.

    No, it was not. Jesus Christ, why are you arguing this when you don’t have the slightest clue as to what has taken place?

  70. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    So let me get this straight:

    PZ has his BVDs in a bunch because some 50 year old article dares to make a few reasonable suggestions for how women should treat men with courtesy and respect.

    The problem is that a large number of them are NOT reasonable, even though they may have a recognizable kinship with suggestions that are, and are premised on unacceptable ideas about the relative importance of women’s wants and needs, versus men’s wants, and what relationships mean for a woman. The ones that are reasonable (like not grabbing the mirror, which is fucking dangerous) almost seem to have gotten in there by accident.

  71. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    @rowanvt: I feel like that quote, if true, had to be in the context of already being in bed with someone.

    It wasn’t.

    What the fuck is WRONG with you that you think we should give any weight at all to such a “feeling” when you haven’t even made the tiniest effort to educate yourself before spouting off?

  72. says

    It’s also worth noting that Phil had nothing to say on the subject of feminism or sexism until he was invited to FTB and bothered to pay attention to what others were talking about, for once. Now, he can’t get enough of attempting to stick it to all the uppity feminists.

  73. stevenbrown says

    Speaking of thunderf00t. Is there an independent archive of the posts he made on FTB? I remember reading them at the time and thinking wtf but I kinda want to go back and read them again so I can make sure I’ve got all my facts straight.

  74. neutrinosarecool says

    It all seems kind of chimpy. Ever notice how ‘picking lint off a man’s suit’ is a form of social grooming behavior? “Only groom your date, ladies, otherwise he won’t feel like an alpha male!”

    Point being, even if your genes direct you to act like a chimpanzee (male or female, alpha or beta), you can overrule them with your rational, intelligent, educated mind. You don’t have to give into the mindless prejudices handed down in the name of tradition, cultural norms, your upbringing, etc.

    Yes, your mind can overrule your immediate hormonal urges, boys and girls – even without the ‘ol Satanic hellfire threat to keep you in line.

  75. speed0spank says

    Actually, on TYT just the other day Ana stopped mid-story to rant about sexist comments. If I remember correctly she was on with Jimmy Dore, reporting on a story about Morning Joe acting like a sexist asshole and being called a chauvinist for it.
    Anyways, she stopped mid-story to rant about how Cenk can scream and yell and pound his fists constantly and he is wildly praised for how passionate he is about a topic. She compares that to when she speaks out strongly about something and a hoard of comments come rolling in about how emotional she is being.
    I also remember recently, maybe it was a Post Game show, she talked about some guy messaging her on FB and saying something crude about sucking his dick, and she threatened to use his own FB information which listed his wife’s profile and his employer against him. He shut up real quick.

    So, Ana does in fact call out trolls, and those trolls aren’t even sending her death or rape threats. Ana is a strong woman who I admire very much and I can’t imagine her letting death and rape threats roll off her back if she received them as often as someone like RW does.

  76. says

    But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t.

    Why the fuck shouldn’t I hate a sexist asshole who has made a cause of objecting to any attempt to combat sexual harassment at conventions? Are you going to now lecture me about my tone, or start in with the “that makes you just as bad” bullshit?

    It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    How terrible, to accuse sexists of being sexist. Fucking concern troll.

  77. Anri says

    Speaking of chimply, I’m gonna go for the low-hanging fruit of this comment:

    So let me get this straight:

    Doubtful.

    [JohnStewart] Go on…. [/JohnStewart]

    PZ has his BVDs in a bunch because some 50 year old article dares to make a few reasonable suggestions for how women should treat men with courtesy and respect.

    Hey, that was almost clever, how you re-worked the ‘panties in a twist’ belittle into your comment there!
    Almost as belittling as the article itself. Which I would see as perfectly reasonable if my fuzzy feminist-brains weren’t distorting it to appear to be a social tool assuming women were primarily interested in pleasing the local menfolk, but sadly too dumb to do so. It might be a useful comparison for current attitudes for social control of women, if only someone were to give us such an example…

    Pity no-one is quite dense enough to do so.

    BUT

    HARK!

    He also has has his BVDs in a bunch because people criticized Rebecca Watson for making unreasonable suggestions for how men should treat women with courtesy and respect.

    Thank you. Carry on.

    Now, I could assume, right here, that this was a sort of epic “own goal in two short sentences” kinda thing.
    But I’ll hold off until I get some confirmation that there was actually some foot in the shoe with the smoking bullet hole.

    So, bovarchist, do us all a favor and quote Rebecca Watson and explain your (no doubt fully sensible and justified) objection to her (no doubt shrill, hysterical, and worst of all female!) suggestion.
    Thanks!

  78. ladyatheist says

    “it’s about how women have an edge by just being pretty”

    Is the corrollary that unattractive women are at a disadvantage?

  79. Amphiox says

    But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t.

    Then you are clearly not informed enough to comment intelligibly on this subject.

    Also, you need to learn the distinction between “hatred” and “anger and contempt”.

  80. says

    Speaking of thunderf00t. Is there an independent archive of the posts he made on FTB?

    This. I remember the blog remaining here as an archive at one point, but it’s been deleted now. Was any backup of the posts made? It might be handy to refer to for these types of discussions (i.e. when somebody comes along and decides we’re all wrong despite not having any idea what we’re talking about).

  81. katenrala says

    @ 86 bovarchist

    He also has has his BVDs in a bunch because people criticized Rebecca Watson for making unreasonable suggestions for how men should treat women with courtesy and respect.

    Watson made no unreasonable suggestions unless you think that strangers (and yourself by extension) are entitled to others’ time, space, boundaries, body, and sense of safety.

  82. katenrala says

    On TFoot: he makes a big to do and lots of noise about creationists, to creationists, on youtube, but he can’t even debate them in reality. His body language was an incredible affectation of defeat and concession and without confidence in his “debate” with Comfort (on more swig of the water nervous one) and it’s no wonder the Phelps later mopped their floor with the hair of his head. Way to represent atheism o atheist-representer-guy-dude!

    I think he can only truly handle himself against a kid who has a greenscreen, a bud with sunglasses, a stack of context-less bible quotes and bad facts via his own greenscreen. I used to watch him years ago before he showed us all his character.

  83. says

    PZ has his BVDs in a bunch because some 50 year old article dares to make a few reasonable suggestions for how women should treat men with courtesy and respect.

    Women! Don’t have interests, ideas, opinions, needs or desires. Just please the MAN! Reasonable, basic courtesy!
    ++++

    re: misandrist pants
    Yep, just because some tiny amount of the money would benefit girls, take them back because it’s clearly better for nobody to benefit.
    UNICEF: hates adults
    OB gyns: The most misandrist profession ever. Have you noticed how they totally only care about women and never about their husbands?
    And don’t get me started on animal shelters. They clearly want humans to die and those evil bigotted charities that help blind people. What about the deaf?
    And I hope she goes after Renee Hendricks fiercely because she claims to collect donations for children with clefts. What about those with cripled feet?

  84. coldthinker says

    An honest question: I watched the misandric pants video. The woman who made it holds some really, really strange opinions about this world and apparently does so quite strongly, since she has bothered to publish them on a video.

    I can only come up with a few blind guesses about where she’s coming from, because her language didn’t indicate a strong conservative religious background. But I know there are a lot of people on this site much more familiar with the strange landscape of the American mind than I am. So, could anyone shed some light on the psychology behind her thinking?

  85. mudpuddles says

    @ Azkyroth #87

    Dunno… maybe because then Wooly Bumblebee would have to do a video decrying the pro-piscine bias and cursing the fact that pants were not being specially made for mammals, birds, reptiles and bugs.

  86. rq says

    Giliell
    I’d like to see the manual for men that explains to them how to treat women with courtesy and respect. Real courtesy and respect, that is, none of the chivalrous stuff from the Middle Ages… A bit outdated, that manual.

  87. Don Quijote says

    For any of those girls out there who manage to capture your man, here is some advice from B. Bacharach and H. David.

    Hey, little girl, comb your hair fix your make-up, soon he will open the door.
    Don’t think because there’s a ring on your finger, you needn’t try anymore.
    For wives should always be lovers too.
    Run to his arms the moment that he comes home to you.
    I’m warning you.
    Day after day, there are girls at the office and men will always be men.
    Don’t stand him up, with your hair still in curlers, you may not see him again.
    Wives should always be lovers too.
    Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you.
    He’s almost here, hey, littile girl, better wear something pretty.
    Something you wear to go to the city.
    Dim the lights, pour the wine, start the music, time to get ready for love.
    Time to get ready for love, yes it’s time to get ready for love.
    It’s time to get ready, kick your shoes off baby…

    Remember all of the in spite of what else you may have to do.

  88. Gregory Greenwood says

    travisrm89 @ 76;

    Fair enough. I think you make some reasonable points. But I still don’t understand this hatred of Thunderf00t. It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    Have you familiarised yourself with Thundrf00t’s stance on sexism?

    This is the guy who drones on endlessly about how anti-harrassment policies are the greatest injustice on the history of the world.

    Who claims that securing consent ‘ruins the mood’ and so it is unreasonable to expect a bloke to bother checking if the woman he is touching actually wants him to touch her, and who has stated that if he wants to bite the leg of a woman, he should be able to do so at will, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is some kind of hysterical prude.

    Who has actively cultivated a grossly misogynistic online following, and generally believes that the safety and bodily autonomy of women is at best a minor secondary consideration set against men having a ‘good time’.

    If none of this counts as ‘sexism’ as you define it, then I find it hard to imagine what action possibly could make the cut; short of someone growing a suitably twirlable villain moustache, donning a cloak and top hat, and starting an ongoing campaign of tying women to train tracks.

  89. hypatiasdaughter says

    Haven’t looked at WB’s video but may I ask if possibly, the reason the company donated money to 3rd world GIRLS was because they made GIRL’S clothing? If they makes boy’s clothing, do they donate money to causes that affect BOYS?
    Ah, well. I suppose a company that only makes girl’s clothing is, de facto, misandric because they don’t care that boys walk around unpanted..
    (BTW, it is usually the women and girls who fetch water, sometimes walking for miles every day to get it. I assume they share it with their menfolk.)

  90. says

    Does this count as sexism, Travis? Once, when I was commenting on Tf00t’s blog, one of the commenters made a rape threat against me. Like, “I will find where you live and track you down and rape you”, not “You oughta be raped.”

    I commented and emailed Tf00t to alert him that he had a harasser and a threat maker making threats on his blog. As far as I know, he never took down the comment, and he never responded to me at all.

    Later, some Slymepitters started a rumor that in fact is was actually me, sockpuppeting myself, who made the rape threat, all for the purpose of, I don’t know, discrediting Tf00t or something. Of course, Tf00t, being the owner of his blog, is the only person with the information to debunk this vicious lie. To my knowledge, he never did.

    It is in fact illegal to issue that sort of specific threat. I would have liked to at least report it to the police in the area where the anonymous poster was living. Tf00t did not see the point in that, I guess.

    Does THAT qualify as sexism?

  91. Ogvorbis says

    SallyStrange:

    [SATIRE]No, not sexism. You just don’t understand male bonding humour. [/SATIRE]

  92. ckitching says

    Gregory Greenwood wrote:

    …short of someone growing a suitably twirlable villain moustache, donning a cloak and top hat, and starting an ongoing campaign of tying women to train tracks.

    I’m glad I wasn’t drinking at the time, or I might need a new keyboard now.

  93. says

    Sally
    No, no, no
    It only counts if rape threats are made against ALL women.
    Since they’re only made against you on accounts you being loud it’s just reasonable disagreement with the dogmatism of gender feminism [/sarcasm]

    rq
    Funny how dating advice nowadays still is focussed on what she should/not do in order to please him, interest him, not annoy him, while the PUA advice is how to manipulate her into fucking*

    *Before some idiot goes off on this: No, there is a tiny amount of sensible advice for all kinds of people (seriously, nobody wants to hear you bash your ex all night long on a first date) and there is an even smaller amount of advice geared towards women that goes against the “be pleasing” ideas.

  94. myuido says

    Well it seems that the actual subject of tf00ts video has made a response to him (Ana Kasparian of The Young Turks). Unfortunately she doesn’t seem offended, and agrees with the points raised in his video, which were that attractive looks have both advantages and disadvantages for women in media.

  95. rowanvt says

    I wonder if Travis will be back here in a few hours, of if we have traumatized him by showing just how much of a creep Thunderfoot actually is?

  96. says

    Sally Strange:

    Does this count as sexism, Travis?

    I have a feeling that ‘travisrm89′ is jacksul. The arguments are exactly the same as in the Dillahunty thread and I’m just as amazingly invisible to ‘travisrm89′ as I was to jacksul.

  97. dadboyghost says

    You will love this…do a search for ‘women, know your place’ on Youtube for the wonderful Harry Enfield parody of the 50’s and the start of a trail of excellence.

  98. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I have a feeling that ‘travisrm89′ is jacksul. The arguments are exactly the same as in the Dillahunty thread and I’m just as amazingly invisible to ‘travisrm89′ as I was to jacksul.

    Ah, that explains the insipidity of the posts, and the utter lack of evidence presented, and the running away when evidence must be produced. Shorter version, “there must be a middle ground, WAHHHHHH”

  99. says

    Pointing out sexism becomes a bad thing when thunderf00t does it?

    He didn’t point out sexism (well, involuntarily he did). He complained about how women just have to be smart and pretty to get attention (and free abuse) while men only have to be smart and don’t get the abuse and apparently he finds that unfair against men.

  100. Lofty says

    myudio:
    “A stopped clock is right twice a day.” Thunderfool may say some right things but it doesn’t stop his basic stupidity on sexism overall.

  101. stevenbrown says

    Thunderf00t did highlight an issue and if you were unfamiliar with his other writings on the topic you could probably decide that he’s a bit misguided but generally on the right track.
    The problem is that context tells us that he’s put on the breaks and he’s stuck where he is. Not because he hasn’t been provided with the information to keep going but because he doesn’t WANT to develop the ideas any further.

    Also although it seems like Ana is agreeing with Thunderf00t if you listen to the last bit about censorship you’d see that in extreme cases she does block people and remove their comments. Not only that but her definition of extreme seems to line up fairly closely with EXACTLY what is happening to people like Surly Amy, Rebbeca Watson and others.
    I’m tempted to go over to the youtube comments section on that video and make a polite but firmly anti thunderf00t post. The resulting shit storm would might show Ana that thunderf00ts video isn’t quite what it appears to be at first glance. Then again I wouldn’t want to expose anyone to that kind of shit.

  102. says

    travis @ 76 (before he fled)

    It seems like we can debate the best manner to fight sexism without accusing the other side of being sexist.

    People who have established anti-sexist cred can certainly debate whether fighting sexism requires lots of X and a small amount of Y versus a soupçon of X and a barrage of Y. The debate in question, however, is whether to fight sexism by fighting it or “fight” it by ignoring it and hoping it’ll go away.

  103. Louis says

    I am (generally) a sceptic. I am (occasionally) fairly rational. I do not believe even Thunderfoot, with his current clueless campaign of “anti-feminism he doesn’t like” would make a video with the unself-reflectively stupid title “Do hot girls have all the advantages?”.

    {Checks YouTube}

    Well, I was wrong. Okay, well I am still sceptical that the video isn’t Swiftian satire, or named satirically, or a deliberate piece of humour.

    {Watches video}

    I…I…Erm. Okay, first thing, I was wrong again. That’s fine, I can live with that. I’m wrong quite a lot. But, well, erm, I, how do I put this, wow, I mean, phew, crikey, I fear some points may have been missed by dear old Thunderfoot somewhere along the line.

    I am flabbergasted.

    Louis

  104. douglas1102 says

    Damn… if only I had a scanner. I have a full two page story in the Toronto Star of my aunt from about 1955. The did the story simply because she was a single lady supporting herself in her own apartment.

    She was also in the newspaper as one of three “best dressed women in Canada” the other two candidates had royal titles.

    She choose to stay single… her other sisters married an NHL player and a President of a TV network. She certainly could have been married had she wanted.

  105. Pteryxx says

    stevenbrown and LykeX:

    Was any backup of the posts made? It might be handy to refer to for these types of discussions (i.e. when somebody comes along and decides we’re all wrong despite not having any idea what we’re talking about).

    Thunderfoot didn’t even transfer his FTB posts to his own blog. (If you care to look: thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com ) Many critics quoted TF’s original posts extensively; for instance Greta’s ‘So much wrong’ series and Zvan here. The only *complete* quote of one of TF’s entire posts that I could find is here, interspersed with responses.

    http://aceofsevens.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/addressing-some-things-thunderf00t-definitely-actually-said/

    TF’s own blog does have his ‘PZ Lyers’ post, and the post where he crows about the listserv breach.

  106. submariner says

    To be truthful, Tf00t argued both sides of the issue of women being attractive. It was a balanced view of the issue and Ana responded with a video thanking Tf00t for his fair treatment of the subject.

  107. David Marjanović says

    Right at the beginning of all this, he said that getting consent to touch a woman ‘ruins the mood’

    :-O

    Argh. If he was serious, he’s indistinguishable from a potential rapist.

    If he wasn’t, and thought this was “just” “funny”, I’m very disturbed why what he considers “just” “funny”: he’s furthering rape culture.

    PZ has his BVDs in a bunch because some 50 year old article dares to make a few reasonable suggestions for how women should treat men with courtesy and respect.

    *headdesk*

    Have you read those suggestions? The few that are reasonable go both ways; others take one man (probably the author) and simply assume all men are exactly like him*; and some are just cringe-inducing.

    * As in comment 111: “Run to his arms the moment that he comes home to you” – of course there are men who like that, but there are others – at the other end of the spectrum, I guess – who’d find it childish and embarrassing, at least in the long run. (And the same, I hope it’s obvious, holds for women.) Opposite effects on different people.

  108. says

    I always use to face a lot of problems for some or more that same reasons. Being beautiful is not always good as people would chase you for getting physical rather than for a companionship. I always wanted to increase my friend circle and who dont wants too? Rather than browsing through social media’s I preferred searching for a dating site
    where I could find something interesting and I found one which have made me more active and social.