Comments

  1. carlie says

    And the opposite – my usual makeup wear ranges from none to a dab of foundation powder on the port wine stain and a colored lip gloss, so the few times I do put on a full set of makeup I get comments about that (which makes me want to wear makeup even less, if there’s going to be a big to-do about it…)

  2. says

    Thanks for reassurances, all, on previous iteration, re impulses re messing with conspiracy theorists’ heads.

    I guess it doesn’t necessarily entirely reassure me I’m not just evil or somethin’. But at least now I know who to call if the messing-with requires allies.

    In other news, the local mountain is open tomorrow, and I hope to do some eight hours on the snow Saturday, shortly after which, I hope, I may again become somewhat more pleasant to be around.

    … Dunno if I mulled this previously here, but I wonder again if the folk doing modelling on consequences for the world of continued global warming have factored this into their calculations: the growing social costs of cranky boarders in withdrawal.

    (/Today’s PSA: please turn off your ignition when stopped in traffic for lengthy periods. Because you won’t like me in an endless summer.)

  3. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    (/Today’s PSA: please turn off your ignition when stopped in traffic for lengthy periods. Because you won’t like me in an endless summer.)

    The problem in my area is that Metra shares the tracks with freight trains. The passenger trains are quick, whereas the freight trains may take a while (depending on where in line you are).

  4. John Morales says

    There is no salient difference between a new Lounge thread and a new page in a Lounge thread.

    (I think it’s just a tradition from the old SB platform days)

  5. says

    I have a house to move into! WOOO!!!!!!!!

    Already looking at decorating ideas, sort of like this office/bedroom idea except office for ONE. I likes my privacy, but I also want lots of bright colors and sun. Our fenced-in backyard will allow me the comfort of actually opening the blinds every once in awhile.

  6. cm's changeable moniker says

    No chocolate from the giant chocolate train for me.

    Have you seen the damn thing? It’s awesome even if you don’t eat it.

    And somewhere in this room there’s a renegade smoke-detector whose battery is almost empty and since it’s not the one on the ceiling I can’t find it.

    Just don’t be these people!

    :-)

  7. carlie says

    Is there a sulking corner set aside for those of us who are unwillingly apart from family at the holidays? I haven’t lived near my parents for about 20 years now, but I still get a touch of the melancholy. Just called home to hear my brothers and my brother’s family all over and having a great raucous time, and my phone call was an intrusion at the wrong time and therefore awkward so we just cut it short. :(

  8. says

    carlie,

    If there’s a sulking corner, I’m in it with you. My wife is in New Mexico, I’m in Virginia, my family is in North Carolina, her family is in South Carolina. I’m all by myself here… other than the constant police sirens, and the screaming neighbors and barking dogs that certainly seem like they are inside my house.

  9. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Thanks for reassurances, all, on previous iteration, re impulses re messing with conspiracy theorists’ heads.

    I guess it doesn’t necessarily entirely reassure me I’m not just evil or somethin’. But at least now I know who to call if the messing-with requires allies.

    I would suggest avoiding messing with any who you have reason to believe or suspect have an actual mental illness. The ones who’ve merely never watered their critical thinking skills or weeded their prejudices are fair game.

  10. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The Redhead’s been leaving a movie channel on during the night to keep her mind occupied. Recently, the movie channel of choice had series of female tragedies, Dr. Zhivago, Anna Karenina, and Madame Bovary. During the last of AK, the Redhead was rooting for the train to finish off AK ASAP, as it seemed to be taking forever…

  11. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Hooray of habitation Joe!

    On a related note: We heard yesterday that the builder could be starting as soon as next Thursday. Now, I would be excited about this, but we started this process over two years ago. Two years. I’m not going to believe that our tiny, passive solar, rainwater gathering, photovoltaic clad, solar hotwatered home is real until I’m moving my bed in the front door.

    Of course this might be a difficult illusion to maintain as we can see the build site from where we’re presently living. And one might think that taking a time-lapse sequence of the build would interfere with my comforting self-deception. One could also be forgiven for thinking that the inevitable shin barking that will be incurred whilst surreptitiously checking out the day’s work after the builders have gone home would put paid to any willful ignorance of the reality of said home. But one would be wrong.

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years of fundy fighting is the power of the human mind to redirect reality into a form more palatable to the emotions. That’s right I’m coming out, right here, right now: I am a Housing Denialist.

    The primary tenet of HD is that houses are not constructed. They simply appear, fully formed and ready of occupancy. The evidence for this is quite compelling: after two years of trying to get a house constructed the land upon which it is to sit remains unchanged in any way. What? Not good enough for you? Fine.

    I have emails, thousands of emails detailing every possible aspect of this purported house. I have plans, elevations, schematics and stigmatics. I have renderings, receipts and revisions upon revisions upon revision and yet a quick glance out the window reveals just grass, a skittish old horse and the occasional pile of cow poo. Clearly this is just smokescreen laid down by the House Fairies to deceive the gullible. Open your EYES people!!!1!!111!!

    HOly fuck. As I was putting in the proper punctuation I got a call from our next door neighbour, there’s a guy there right this second dropping off building materials. Damn, but those House Fairies are on it. Must have a Black Helicopter monitoring my computer.

    Anyway, all I need to do now is figure out a way to monetise HD.

    Thoughts?

  12. cicely says

    Tony:
    I like lima beans…just not as over-cooked mush.

    Can’t the Deranged Penguin (may She always keep the odds in my favour) just find a way to turn those peas into horses? Chocolate- or wasabi-covered, doesn’t really matter (they both wash off).

    The problem with trying to wash off Horses is, the Horses remain. Undiluted.

    Are any white cats are involved? Always check for the white cat. Infallible sign of a megalomaniac. Sometimes hidden under strange-coloured troll hair. (The megalomaniac, not the white cat.)

    And sometimes, the white cat contains the consciousness of a Deep Seven. In which case, you may very well be hosed; the megalomaniac will be the least of your worries.

    Does it make me a bad person that, in spite of (or maybe because of) my enthusiasm for archaeology, I sometimes just itch to plant faked antiquities? And that it’s just an incredibly good thing that I don’t have access to a time machine, because I’m not sure I could restrain the mad impulse to set up a duplicate of Stonehenge, with stone from the same sources, in Antarctica?

    Warning, it is Rush Limbaugh.

    My boss is a regular listener to that asshole’s radio show.

    But then, he also is a big Velikovsky fan.

    It was so bad it collapsed into a black hole and is slowly evaporating away (Hawking radiation). Might be the source of peas… no self-respecting particle would dare be seen radiating away from such a monstrosity.

    Maybe that is why the peas are frozen?

    No. It’s the reason why the peas are radioactive.
    -

  13. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    As reference, Electra and Werther, while bloody (fake blood pouring down a staircase during Electra), didn’t cause the same “get it over with” reaction.

  14. says

    FossilFishy, Yay? On the off-chance something good happens before 2014?

    carlie, I’m cooking everything and two birds in part to avoid the whole “sitting quietly by myself drinking until my neighbors start screaming at each other and their dogs start barking and fighting, at which point I go outside with my gun and start shouting at all of them and by Satan if one of them puts a goddamned toe on my property I’m emptying all five magazines into them and their family and friends and house, and then I’m hacking their dogs to death with my katana and then I’m going to take a dump on their porch while I wait for the cops to come” thing.

    We’ve all been there, right? Right?

  15. says

    Since I’m officially doubling the number of comments I’ve made on FTB by adding this one, it’s okay that I start off with a cheerful hello, right?

    @Carlie: Thanks for posting the article on makeup. Complicated topic, isn’t it?

  16. carlie says

    Joe – you could always do a free trial period for Netflix and binge on an entire season of something all day. They have all of Arrested Development, and a lot of the Dick Van Dyke show, and Kingdom, and the first two seasons of Downton Abbey, and a bunch of other things.

    Hello, freethinkingahead! Welcome!

    FossilFishy – I’ve watched too many people build houses to ever think of trying it myself. More power to you.

  17. says

    I’m having the deep desire to cover everything in my soon-to-be-office in matching Tolex… Tolex being the stuff they cover amps with.

    I’ve been wanting to sort of restore/refurbish my guitar amplifier, which is a 1991 Peavey Classic 50. I got it for very very cheap, it sounds like a million bucks, and looks like about $1.50. I was going to go with as close to British racing green as I can find, with brown leather corners and gold-plated stuffs. Now, I’m thinking something to match the blue walls and carpet of my new office. Really bright red?

    But then I thought: what if I buy one of those Ikea tabletops, and cover it in the same stuff? It would MATCH! I likes matching!

  18. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    2014 Joe? The very thought of that has me hoping that world really is ending right away. ;)

    Thanks carlie. Mind you, it’s all up to the House Fairies, I just have to have faith.

    Er, or have a wife who’s an engineer and has successfully supervised multi-million dollar building projects. The I’s be well and truly dotted and the T’s, oh those fuckers be righteously crossed on every aspect of this. Despite my histrionics upthread, we really stand a good chance of getting it done with minimal drama.

  19. Ray, rude-ass yankee says

    Also, Yay baby rhino! It’s like a baby tank with legs instead of treads, Awww. What’s with the buck tooth though?

  20. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    FossilFishy: what would you suggest for someone who aspires to do something similar for their own housing someday?

  21. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Tolex Joe? Yeegods that stuff gives me hives. I can’t look at it without the phantom smell of stale beer, cigarette smoke and unwashed drummer invading my brain.

  22. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Azkyroth, are you talking retrofitting (more)sustainable features or building from the ground up?

  23. says

    From last thread:

    Dalillama, there is how they deleted all the rape tropes because the advertisers were complaining, then sloppily reinstated them.

    This sort of thing really pisses me right off. Advertisers whining b/c of the content of whoever they’re advertising with. I mean, you knew what content you were buying advertising with before buying it, and if not, you damn well should have. Seriously, what the hell is their problem?

  24. ImaginesABeach says

    John – thank you for the link. It explained much better than I could what I tried to say with this:

    All of this assumes that it is necessary to mention the disability, of course – that it is relevant to the conversation.

    AND it pointed out that people get to label themselves, which is a point I missed.

  25. says

    Ooh, how exciting. Building! My bestie is moving into her newly renovated house tomorrow, and the hassles have been unbelievable.

    Hers has been immensely complicated by the fact that they didn’t choose this: it’s had to be renovated for wheelchair accessibility. So add to the mere building & finance work a huge collection of insurance companies, lawyers, hospitals, therapists, OT reports galore and every goddamn kitchen & bathroom salesperson mansplaining (ablesplaining?) how they know what she wants better than she does.

  26. says

    Thanks Ray! This is coming on the end of a drama that’s been going on since fucking… June? Maybe earlier?

    FossilFishy, you say “stale beer, cigarette smoke and unwashed drummer” like it is a bad thing! What would you suggest for a guy on a budget? I probably can’t afford that much actual tweed, and it wouldn’t match anything in any case.

  27. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Yikes Alethea, that sounds like a nightmare.

    We had problems with Golburn-Murray water doing their level best to get us to give up. This isn’t paranoia, they don’t want any more construction in the watershed if at all possible and actively try to discourage it.

    But Mrs. Fishy has a vast working knowledge of planning and development from the inside perspective. She’s also spent her working life dealing with the patriarchal culture within in the trades. I won’t say it’s been easy, nor will I say that it’s been stress-free but we’re almost there. I can’t wait to get home and go look at the pile of materials on our previously lonely and neglected land.

  28. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Improbable Joe:
    YAY for housing!! Congratz!

    carlie:
    I’ll join you and Joe in the sulking corner. I’m 1300 miles away from my kids and almost everyone I love. My immediate family is having a huge get-together with lots of extended and adopted family attending. Throw in the fact that no matter what budgetary feats of magic I perform, there is no going home over winter break, which means I won’t see any of them until next summer…and I’m primed for pouting.

    On the positive side, I’ll get to have dinner with five people I really like — and unlimited quantities of wine.

    FossilFishy:
    Yay for House Fairies! *waves to the black helicopter people*

    freethinkingahead!
    Hello! Welcome!

  29. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    On the positive side, I’ll get to have dinner with five people I really like — and unlimited quantities of wine.

    Lucky you. >.>

  30. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Nerd, I again recommend an audiobook under the pillow as a night-time sleep aid. And to avoid the confusion that arose last time, I say to pick a favorite happy story or two, and run it/them over and over (don’t put in a new suspense thriller and hope to nod off).

    I like P. G. Wodehouse, read by Frederick Davidson (who uses other names) and have two Jeeves and Wooster books that I’ve been using for months now. Happy stories, lovely accents, marvelous writing, gentle humor, familiar plot. And sleep.

  31. strange gods before me ॐ says

    Yay baby rhino! It’s like a baby tank with legs instead of treads, Awww. What’s with the buck tooth though?

    That’s the egg tooth.

  32. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Oh I know Joe. I was trying for funny/nostalgic rather than actual criticism.

    Still, “Tolex” as a word always conjurers up the sense-memory of grabbing my beer off the top of my amp and taking a big swig, only to find that it was a can that had been sitting there for weeks marinating a half a dozen butts. And no matter how good your imagination is, I can guarantee the actual experience was worse. It was so bad that once the others stopped laughing at my expense a quick consensus was reach that empties were henceforth to be crushed upon completion.

  33. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Socio-gen, I hope you have a good time. ‘Tis sad to miss your family.

    My wife is going to make pies. And she makes good ones—generally, when eating pie, I’ll leave as much of the crust as possible, but she bakes up the scraps of her pie-crust, and I eat them, plain.

    The rest of the dinner is being done by another experienced cook, and will also be yummy.

  34. Pteryxx says

    *waves* Right now I’m not active anywhere, just reading briefly when I can. (Also no gendering plz.) Dunno from Caine but the ratified blog keeps mysteriously updating every so often…

  35. says

    Pteryxx,

    Glad to see you’re doing fine, I’m assuming your gender is “apricot” until further notice, and this is much better than last year. Just saying, last year was bad enough that I was thinking about it this year.

  36. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    …at the risk of being insensitive, is being “gendered” here something anyone can opt out of? O.o

  37. says

    Azkyroth,

    …at the risk of being insensitive, is being “gendered” here something anyone can opt out of? O.o

    Good luck with that. I’ve already gendered you “aluminium” in my head, and thus that is how you shall stay. :)

  38. says

    Hawesome re housing, Joe!

    (And I think Tolex everything would also be hawesome, but I’m betting my SO would be less impressed. What can ya do.)

  39. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    If you gender me “aluminium” youu haeve tou aedd silnte vouwles tou aevaerythngi, four startres.

    Counsitaency maettres.

  40. says

    Azkyroth,

    No way! All I have to do is add an extra “u” to “color” and “honor” and “labor”, and put vinegar on my fries chips, and I can get away with the extra “i”! Apparently I also have to adopt a funny walk and work a pun into at least one conversation a day.

  41. says

    Fishy, yes, it’s been a nightmare. We decided last night that the reason she isn’t currently rolled up in a ball screaming is because she has completely utterly run out of her entire lifetime supply of adrenaline. Suddenly find that you can barely walk and need knee surgery ASAP, while your husband is in hospital with pneumonia, and someone in the hospital has damaged his wheelchair so you have to organise repairs, and the removalists are arriving on Friday, and the kitchen benchtop order got screwed up and it won’t be there until Monday, and the insurance company is demanding Yet Another Report? Meh, just another day. Apply bourbon and coconut loaf until symptoms improve.

  42. says

    I was thinking more along the lines of Tolex on my desktop, since I tend to spill things, and Tolex on maybe a picture frame or three?

    This seems perfectly reasonable to me…

    … and maybe even achievable…

    Sure. It’s all in the negotiation. Start by proposing this, plus Tolex on the walls, chairs, and floors. Then haggle down to desk plus picture frames.

  43. says

    Alethea,

    Joe, can I has new gendering plz?

    Sure you can! Actually, since you put me on the spot… you get a choice from three options. You can be gendered “fried chicken strips” or “yellow” or “the Kuiper belt”… the decision is yours. :)

  44. says

    … shit.

    We need to find a new word for what I’m doing here, because I’m being a total asshole to people who reject binary gendering. Shame on you folks who encouraged me rather than shutting me down.

    Anyone and everyone who I could have possibly offended directly or otherwise?** Yeah. I was sort of a gigantic idiot for doing it, and I’m sorry. I was trying to be funny and cute, but I should know better than to do it at the expense of other people and I fucked up pretty bad there. I’m sorry, seriously.

    Alethea, you can still be the Kuiper belt… you’ll always be the Kuiper belt to me. Just not in a way that mocks gender identity, OK?

  45. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Azkyroth:
    Yes, yes I am.

    Improbable Joe

    I’m going to pull out my guitar and start playing sad blues badly any second now.

    Ba-bah-da-bum-bum….

    Good timing! I’m attempting to cheer myself up by watching Adventures in Babysitting and it’s almost to the scene where the kids are in the blues club.
    +++
    New gendering for me as well? Something in red?

    FossilFishy

    taking a big swig, only to find that it was a can that had been sitting there for weeks marinating a half a dozen butts.

    Good news – my gag reflex works! *does the “ew ew ew” dance with scrubbing motions*

    I would have to rinse my mouth with Lysol or bleach after something like that. Possibly battery acid. *shudder*

    Menyambal:

    It should be a really nice afternoon. My cousin and her family are great people and we always have fun together.

    I think part of what makes me sad is that, even if I were home, I wouldn’t have a good time. I’d either have to be constantly challenging the racist/sexist crap from a lot of the relatives (and hear how much I’ve changed) or else keep my mouth shut and fume silently…

    Pteryxx! *anklehugs*

  46. says

    kristinc,

    Yeah, I fucked up there, and we should all stop referring to what I’m doing that way.

    It doesn’t mean we can’t re-label it more accurately and in a way that isn’t an insult to anyone. It needs a new label… re-species-ing? Sort of clumsy, although it gets the point across more accurately and less insultingly.

    Whenever we figure out what to call it, under that title you’ll be ethyl vinyl acetate. :)

  47. Amblebury says

    Heyo!

    I’m making a Thanksgiving dinner, because even here in NZ we can be thankful Mitt Romney didn’t get to be president.

    I put the turkey on a (covered) barbeque, set the temp. and napped for and hour. I set the temp, waywayway too low. It’s going to be a long night.

  48. says

    Do you really think it’s a fuck up? I’m not sure. If you want to be serious, then here you can have whatever gender identity you like, or none at all. And you should, IMNSHO, be entitled to that in real life, too.

    I’ve always wanted some sort of “conscientious objector” option for my gender, because even though I am actually cis-female I reject so much of what customarily goes along with that. And why do people care so damn much and want to know all the time on totally irrelevant forms? It offends me. Retail websites? Just shut up and take my money, and don’t try to sell me pink shit.

  49. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Sorry Joe! I didn’t refresh before I posted so I missed it. My apologies for continuing the theme.

  50. says

    On a completely different subject…

    My dog is a basenji/shepherd mix. She chases things. We’ve taken to calling everything outside a bunny, since chasing bunnies was how she got started. So cats are “house bunnies” and squirrels are “tree bunnies” and birds are “sky bunnies”…

    What the hell category do I put a woodchuck into?

  51. says

    Alethea,

    If you want to be the Kuiper belt because you personally reject gendering in general and are actively mocking it, then you’re in the clear.

    As for me, I feel like I was going into that “color-blind racist” territory, where I was mocking something as meaningless while it still has real meaning in the lives of a whole lot of people, which is why it was wrong for me to make a game of it.

  52. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I’ve always wanted some sort of “conscientious objector” option for my gender, because even though I am actually cis-female I reject so much of what customarily goes along with that. And why do people care so damn much and want to know all the time on totally irrelevant forms? It offends me. Retail websites? Just shut up and take my money, and don’t try to sell me pink shit.

    Seconded.

  53. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    As for me, I feel like I was going into that “color-blind racist” territory, where I was mocking something as meaningless while it still has real meaning in the lives of a whole lot of people, which is why it was wrong for me to make a game of it.

    For what it’s worth I appreciated it. :/

  54. says

    Azkyroth,

    On some level I’m always going to be an obnoxious asshole shithead. As I get older, I can only hope that I can at least target my worst impulses towards specific people who deserve it, rather than randomly hitting/hurting people who have nothing to do with why I’m feeling particularly obnoxious at any given moment.

  55. says

    I do see your point. I’m certainly not intending to mock people who want to be a specific gender, more the people who want to stop them doing so and insist on defining others. But I can see how it might come across that way.

  56. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Pteryxx, hi!

    Um, your ‘nym reminded me of a joke the kids had going:

    “Why do you never hear a pterodactyl taking a piss?”

    “Because the “P” is silent.”

    ======

    Speaking of the kids, one has to write a paper comparing the Scottish play to a song, which actually come up as a common Google search. I got roped in to “help”, and here’s how my homework starts:

    The main theme in the play Macbeth could be summed up by the song I Need Some Sleep, by the Eels, from the movie Shrek 2. Sleeplessness runs through the play. It provides the proverbial line, “Sleep that knits up the ravell’d sleave of care.” The most famous line, “Out, damned spot!”, is said while sleepwalking.

  57. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Whereas I’ve always been acutely conscious of the arbitrariness of “gender” concepts (and the bitter irony of being on the receiving end of so much aggressive policing) and it was briefly refreshing to not be clubbed over the head with the assurance that other people DO NOT EXPERIENCE IT THAT WAY AND MY CONTRARY EXISTENCE IS AT BEST AN OTHER AND AT WORST A THREAT.

    Ah well.

  58. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    …I semi-sincerely hope that’s not offensive to people who have actually been attacked with clubs. >.>

    I should sleep it off.

  59. says

    cicely,

    Thanks! And you’re invited. You’re ALL invited! We’ll have wine and beer and probably a little too much Scotch, and a place for a few of you to crash, and plenty of parking!

  60. chigau (無) says

    Improbable Joe
    During my catch-up, at first, I didn’t see the re-gendering as harmful (because haz cis-privilege).
    I was wrong.
    Then I got to thinking; why do personal pronouns need to be about gender?
    and a trip to wikipfft showed that they(heh) don’t.
    But I think it could continue if we see it as ‘not using inappropriate pronouns’.

    on another paw
    pronouns are used to avoid:
    “Alethea says that Alethea doesn’t mind if you identify Alethea as female.”
    If everyone has their(feh) own pronoun, it kinda defeats the purpose of pronouns.

    and
    pronouns should be shorter than the noun-being-pro’ed.
    “Kuiper belt”, while lovely, involves a lot of typing.

    It’s about the pronouns not the gender.

  61. says

    It’s about the pronouns not the gender.

    It is about finding an individual identity without stepping on any groups who are fighting for their identity to recognized. It doesn’t hurt to joke about identifying as random funny stuff I can come up with when I’m tired and drunk… especially since you’re all lucky I didn’t go with my 8th grade default. That was “Madagascar” and you can live with that. :)

    It does hurt someone out there if my joke ties funny identity to gender identity.

    But your other point, chigau non-English symbol, sort of falls apart for obvious reasons. :)

  62. says

    Azkyroth, I am confused. Did something I said come across as metaphorically clubbing you? I was intending the exact opposite, so I really hope not!

    FWIW, I hate gender roles; I hate the social requirement that everyone must be clearly labelled as one of a choice of two genders; I dislike people who try to enforce that. I certainly do not dislike people who want to be their official gender, the other official gender, or neither or something else. I would rather answer “mu” (or “Kuiper Belt”) to the “M or F?” question, even if the official answer basically works for me.

    I think Kuiper Belt is going to be my new star sign, too.

  63. says

    @ FossilFishy

    There is something about building buildings (and I’m sure your wife can confirm) that always makes me nervous. It takes so damn long for them to get anywhere after the contracting companies arrive on site. Things never seem to “get off the ground”.

    There is of course good reason for this. They must set up, undertake earthworks, prep services, lay foundations, surface beds and so on and so forth. It is intensive and goes on and on without the building having risen a millimeter. But then suddenly: WOOOSH!, it takes off like a rocket.

    So no worries… :)


    I miss Caine. I hope Theo is getting regular scritches too.

  64. says

    If your not aware. Hobby Lobby is suing the federal government health care mandate. They do not want their female employees to have access to emergency birth control because of the owners religious beliefs. Good news; they have been losing the cases in the courts where they operate, including the HQ in Oklahoma. If you want, join the Boycott Hobby Lobby facebook page. ooh, and this is funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4pTZIHtmnw&feature=share

  65. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Socio-gen, Sorry. Should have put a gag trigger warning on that.

    Alethea: You know, one of the things Phayrngula has given me is a much deeper understanding of privilege. And that understanding has many positive ramifications, in this case personal ones.

    When I hear a story like your friend’s it makes me appreciate just how lucky I am. Sure our journey to househood has been difficult, but my able-bodiedness and able-mindedness (mostly) has made the process so much easier.

    Recognising and acknowledging that privilege makes my life better. It makes me more compassionate and more appreciative and oh look: I don’t need a metaphysical carrot and an infinite stick to be a better person.

  66. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Oh indeed theophontes. The peristaltic nature of construction is part of the reason I’m now the Grand High Poohbah of the Church of Housing Denialism. The damn thing will not be real until my only option for a sheltered night’s sleep is within it’s walls or under the bridge behind the pub.

    Now if you’ll pardon me, I have to go circle the slab site three times widdershins whilst reciting Clause 27, paragraph 3 of our building contract, and then prepare the saucer of cheap lager that’s to be left out for the House Fairies.

  67. chigau (無) says

    Joe

    But your other point, chigau non-English symbol, sort of falls apart for obvious reasons. :)

    Good Lord Something, man Joe, which other point?
    “obvious”?
    Do you know how much rum is left?
    And why “obvious” ain’t?
    [ said with a genuine :) ]

  68. birgerjohansson says

    You need a lot of karate skills to earn the Kuiper Belt, apart from that it is a good choice.

  69. John Morales says

    anuran, from your link:

    The law requires that plaques celebrating the power of the Almighty God be installed outside the state Homeland Security building–and carries a criminal penalty of up to 12 months in jail if one fails to comply.

    That doesn’t make any sense to me; who is supposedly to be jailed for not installing such a plaque?

  70. John Morales says

    Improbable Joe, Thanksgiving is (not yet) an Australian holiday.

    (Far as I can tell, it’s a misnomer anyway — an excuse for gluttony rather than an actual thanks-giving)

  71. chigau (無) says

    John Morales #102
    The Canadian lesser beings did Thanksgiving a month or so ago.
    The American lesser beings are doing it in a few days.
    Would you like to discuss National Holidays?
    Is there a ‘holiday’ that does not involve ‘gluttony’?

  72. blf says

    That doesn’t make any sense to me; who is supposedly to be jailed for not installing such a plaque?

    The local priest?

    It’s stone age oral mythology. It only makes sense if you live in a cave with the rest of your tribe who are routinely eaten by sabertithed toogers. (Probably no wasabi, however… ☹ )

  73. rq says

    Good morning to all!

    Improbable Joe
    Hooray for the house, and yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you! May the feast be delicious!

    John Morales
    The Canadian Thanksgiving is a celebration of the end of the harvest season, where people celebrate the end of the hard-labour season and are thankful for the harvest that they have had. Historically, at least. It matches up with many other cultural holidays in Europe held around that time, most of which signify the end of autumn and the beginning of time-to-hunker-down-for-winter.
    I’m a bit more shabby on my American Thanksgiving history.
    But as an excuse for gluttony, that may be so now, just like the holidays around winter-solstice-time, which used to be about marking the turning point in the year and being together with family, and for others the birth of a mystical saviour-god, is more about giving and receiving lots of expensive presents.

    And also, I’m with chigau. I’m pretty sure all holidays consist of gluttony in one form or another. :P

  74. John Morales says

    chigau:

    Is there a ‘holiday’ that does not involve ‘gluttony’?

    Heh. Good point.

    In principle, Lent and Ramadan are supposed to involve self-abnegation.

    (But you’d need to be a religious loony to actually follow through)

    PS I’m reliably informed that Americans are not lesser beings, but rather greater ones (in corpulence, at least).

  75. rq says

    John Morales
    We do, and it’s always on the second Monday of October. Or something equally vague (usually around the 10th of October).
    We eat mostly the same stuff the Americans do, just six weeks earlier. :)

    Also, are Lent and Ramadan considered holidays…? (Probably yes, if taking the original meaning of holidays into account, but still?)

    chigau
    Good night to you, then. :)

  76. blf says

    For those who don’t know, this week’s Doonesbury theme is the post-election math-and-science victory parade, featuring:

    The 99% of climatologists who agree that global warming is man-made;
    Pregnant “legitimate rape” victims;
    and lots of other snarks and giggles…

    (Apologies if you know this, but I only found out last night in the pub, with the usual result of everyone else looking at me and thinking “WTF is he laughing about this time?”)

  77. John Morales says

    rq, I guess Lent isn’t, though where I live “Good Friday”, “The day after Good Friday” and “Easter Monday” are indeed public holidays.

  78. rq says

    Alethea
    True.
    In a similar fashion, Ramadan involves eating lots before sunrise, and then feasting every night after sunset.

    I guess the gluttons win everywhere.

  79. says

    Good morning

    Yay for house, JOe

    Hello freethinkingahead!

    make up again
    Well, us women just can’t win, can we?
    One thing is, when I didn’t wear make up I didn’t get comments for it. People just got used to how my face looks when it’s scrubbed clean. But as I mentioned, I always have dark shadows under my eyes which means that when I’m fully rested I look like other people after they didn’t get any sleep last night. If I don’t get any sleep at night, you don’t want to know what I look like.
    And I don’t wear much make up (see how apologetic this sounds already?), a light foundation, to my everlasting surprise pink eyeshadow, and brown eyeliner. Which all in all adds up to that “make up that is so commonplace nobody actually realises it’s there unless it isn’t” look. You know, don’t annoy me with how you actually look like, but don’t make me notice that it takes efforts thingy.
    But then again not wearing any make-up for me was one of those things that indicated that I simply neglected myself. Spending 5 min on me? Too much effort. I only brushed my teeth because my bad smell would annoy other people, so, no make-up.
    Which is why I get fucking angry if somebody wants to tell me that by wearing it I’m just bowing down to other people’s expectations, giving in into all those ideas about women when I’m actually doing something that is part now of my “mental healthcare by caring about my body” routine.
    And anyway, how come that when my husband spends 10 min a day and quite some money on a clean shave (have you ever looked at the prices of Gilette or Wilkinson razorbaldes?) that’s just normal and totally not out of order while technically speaking of course absolutely not necessary, but when I spend much less time and money on a bit of make-up I’m a vain woman who spends money on frivolous things?

    cm
    My brother in law took over my room in the flat I had shared with a friend previous to moving in here. One day he cleaned up the whole room in search of a cricket, which turned out to be the smoke-detector as well. He threw it away…

    Joe again

    No way! All I have to do is add an extra “u” to “color” and “honor” and “labor”, and put vinegar on my fries chips, and I can get away with the extra “i”!

    What you didn’t notice is that unless you put those letters there it’s objectively wrong and I will make it with a big red sharpie.
    Also, it’s a long a in caaaaaaan’t.

    Alethea
    Oh the nightmares. I know the trouble we had to get the stuff for grandma and that was several people on some minor tasks.

    gender
    I don’t reject being feminine, I reject femininininity.

    Azkyroth
    How about you telling us what you’d prefer and we just stick to it?

  80. blf says

    The Church of England can no longer continue as an arm of the state:

    By voting against women bishops, it has shown itself to be a discriminatory organisation that seeks to be above the law

    Up until now I cannot say I have been overly concerned with female vicars. … [M]ostly I am with Bill Hicks: “Women priests. Great, great. Now there’s priests of both sexes I don’t listen to.”

    At the heart of the church is a steely core of evangelicals who have far more say than they should. The provisional wing of the CofE is as fundamentalist as they come: the one thing that all fundamentalisms share is the need to keep women in their place.

    Thus we had the farce of the vote against women bishops when there have been women priests for 20 years, which the majority of the congregation accepts. To ban those women from promotion is discrimination that would not be acceptable in any other walk of life. The church, with its mystifying voting process, looks not only archaic but also impotent as the vast majority of the synod did not want this result. …

    As the conservative MP who speaks for the synod in parliament said: “I think the great danger for the church following the vote is that it will be seen increasingly as just like any other sect.” Indeed, this is how many of us already regard it. The question then becomes how can the church continue to function as an arm of the state when it endorses such out-and-out prejudice?

    Remember there are already 3,600 women priests in the church and 37 women Anglican bishops worldwide. Africa has just got its first woman bishop. So now we lag behind Swaziland.

    The issue is not belief — people can believe in fairies as far as I am concerned …

    The church, in seeking to be above the law, is now a discriminatory organisation, though it holds 26 seats in the House in Lords, from which women are barred. This effective debarring of women from the legislative process is more than an “embarrassment”, it is profoundly undemocratic.

    A secular country — and that is largely what we are — should have no truck with this. Why on earth should we respect this bizarre sect any longer? The separation of church and state is long overdue. An institution that allows the maintenance of a stained glass ceiling for its female clergy to bang their heads against should not only lose its moral authority. Let it also lose its unearned privileges.

  81. John Morales says

    blf, ah, but the Primate’s boss is the Queen, who currently is a woman.

    (It being an established church and all)

  82. blf says

    Well, us women just can’t win, can we?

    Cooties. It’s all about the cooties. Get rid of ‘em, and you too can be like the mildly deranged penguin. Glutton without Holiday, Genius with her own Cult, Active supporter of flying kittens, Creator of sentient cider, et al. Trebuchet optional.

    Instead, with the cooties, all you’ve got is the magical power of the vagina.

  83. John Morales says

    Some feel-good news: Crushed zookeeper defends elephant’s actions

    The Sydney zookeeper who was crushed by an elephant has defended the actions of the animal.

    Lucy Melo was badly hurt when the elephant, Pathi Harn, also known as Mr Shuffles, pushed her up against a bollard during a training exercise at Taronga Zoo last month.

    She is now recovering from broken ribs and has written an open letter thanking her family, colleagues and medical professionals for their support and help.

    Ms Melo also explained the actions of Pathi Harn, saying he was trying to challenge and test boundaries, which is common in juvenile elephants.

    […]

    Ms Melo says Taronga Zoo has now changed how staff manage the elephant.

    The zookeeper added she was “looking forward to getting back to work and seeing all the elephants again, especially Pathi Harn”.

    (Includes obligatory cute images)

  84. rq says

    But, blf, how do I get rid of the cooties???

    +++

    re: make-up
    Last time I spent money on make-up was a year ago. I like putting on some make-up for me (mostly eyes), but there are days when I just can’t be bothered, so I hide behind my glasses.
    Sometimes I feel guilty about not trying so hard, when picking up eldest from his kindergarten (for example), but honestly, I’d rather put that make-up on for myself (when going out-out, when I have the time, when I feel like it), rather than trying to make myself presentable to those around me, just because.
    No, I don’t go out like a slob. I just like not doing what other people would prefer me to do.

  85. rq says

    Audley
    :P Thanks. Last night I went to bed hungry because of all the feasting talk, and now you’re getting right into it, bright and early, which means I’ll be hungry all day, no matter what I eat. :)

    Alternatively, how are you doing? And DarkInfant? And Mr. DarkHeart (DarkFather?)? Best wishes and lots of sleep to all of you!

  86. says

    Good news: Washing machine is repaired
    Bad new: 130 bucks because it was one of the kids’ pencils

    rq

    Sometimes I feel guilty about not trying so hard, when picking up eldest from his kindergarten (for example),

    I became mightily popular with the kids at kindergarten while wearing no make up at all, because I bothered to learn their names and have something nice to say about them.
    I became known to the teachers as a caring and reliable parent by being one.

  87. Have a Balloon says

    Giliell, kristinc, rq
    I haven’t worn make up since I was really little, and had one of those kid sets that I used to play with. I wasn’t interested in make up as a teenager so I never went through that phase of learning to wear it and getting it wrong, but it’s okay because you’re 13.

    So my make up skills are still at the level of a 9-year-old, I couldn’t wear it even if I wanted to. Mostly I’m happy – I save money from not spending it on make up supplies. But I do feel out of place when I’m around other women who are wearing it and look really striking. Funnily enough nobody has ever commented that I don’t wear make-up, and occasionally in photos people will assume that I am wearing make-up. But that’s probably because I’m young enough to get away with it, and as I get older that will change. And I’m scared about that.

    I also live in terror of imposed make-up as part of a dress code at work. I honestly couldn’t do that as part of a daily routine. I don’t want to wake up one day and find that I have to choose between wearing make-up or losing my job/missing out on promotions because I look old etc.

    blf
    I would definitely support disestablishment at this point, and that article underlined why. Because the CoE has 26 spaces in the House of Lords that have just been confirmed to be male-only. I have mixed feelings about the House of Lords but there are enough men in Parliament already, without cutting women out even further. They don’t have to let women be bishops, but then they should get out of our government and our schools. Can’t have it both ways.

  88. rq says

    Giliell
    It’s not so much coming across as a caring parent – I’m pretty sure I manage, including engaging with his friends and knowing their names, too. The teacher I’m fine with (most of the time she looks supremely frazzled herself, but hey, spending a day with 20 active 5-year-olds will do that!!). It’s mostly the discomfort of, as Have a Balloon said, being around other women who do the whole visible-make-up thing, when my skills with make-up are rather conservative.
    I think it is partially an extension from high school, because my dad forbade make-up for me and my sister (eventually we rebelled) but starting about grade 7 or so, when my friends would regularly try make-up, I’d get the questions why I wasn’t wearing any, why I wasn’t allowed, why didn’t I, I’d look soooooooo pretty with it on… Those comments kind of stick around, which is why, even when I do put make-up on, I feel guilty if I put on lots of bright colours…
    Also, when I graduated high school, I needed my sister to help with proper make-up because I had no idea how it worked.
    Got a bit better in university, but my sister still regularly made fun of me for not being on the ball about what make-up is good for me and what would suit me. So generally I chose not to engage, because the risk of ridicule (for getting it wrong or looking too garish and painted) seemed way too high.
    Still does, even though now I feel the risk of ridicule for not wearing. It’s a me thing, I suppose.

    I’m banking on good genes on my maternal side to keep me looking fresh well into my 80s.

  89. Beatrice says

    Hello!

    Congrats to Joe and Fossil Fishy for house news.

    re: make-up

    I go through stages. Sometimes I put it on almost constantly for months, then months go by when I put on make-up only very rarely. I’m in the no make-up phase right now (with rare exceptions). I just can’t be bothered.
    If I look a bit like a zombie, well then, people will just have to deal with the horror of my face. I’ll call the whambulance if it gets too much for them.

    Even when I do use make-up, it’s usually just some concealer under my eyes and a bit of mascara. If I feel like putting on a bit more, I go as far as using a bit of eyeshadow and/or kajal.

  90. opposablethumbs says

    Have a Balloon

    the CoE has 26 spaces in the House of Lords that have just been confirmed to be male-only … they should get out of our government and our schools. Can’t have it both ways.

    QFT

    PS I like the way your nym can be read as either “here, have this nice balloon I’m offering you” or “Have balloon (will travel)” :)

  91. Beatrice says

    I made a gazillion copies of all the documents I usually have to send when applying for jobs. The universe is now supposed to arrange so that I get a call one of these days with the news that I got one of the jobs I already applied for, just so that I could later complain “Oh damn, and here I went and made all these photocopies for nothing!”

    That’s how things work, right?

    *waiting*

    /silly

  92. says

    No, that’s not a scale model of the Alps. It’s the assorted dirty laundry that accumulated since the amchine broke down…

    Have a Balloon
    That’s what I hate about the whole thingy: the compulsory aspect. And the fact that you’re still not off the hook if you do it: then you’re vain. And wasting money.

    beatrice
    It would have worked if you hadn’t mentioned it….

    +++
    And now for some college stuff. That’s why I prefer going there even if I don’t have classes. The hour spent driving pays off by not getting distracted by housework.

  93. rq says

    Beatrice
    I think you just jinxed yourself out of a job anywhere. :P Is that how it works?
    I think in this case you should also send out 9384759283749283 applications to jobs that you’ll never get, so that one of them can give you a fantastic offer after you’ve already accepted that position the university will give you.

    +++

    Speaking of mountains of laundry…

    +++

    Apparently using the local cemetery in lieu of a park to walk my children has been a bad idea, from a spiritual point of view… Who knew?

  94. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    It would have worked if you hadn’t mentioned it….

    Fuck.

    —-

    Universe,
    Sorry, universe Universe! Please ignore what I wrote. Let’s pretend it never happened. That comment doesn’t exist. I didn’t write anything. Do you see anything at number 131? Noooooo! Of course not. So, just do your business, as planned. I’ll just sit here with my mobile phone close by.

    XOXO

  95. says

    rq
    My mum got told if you bring an infant to a cemetery before they turn 1 they’ll die before that age…

    ++++
    Talking about the universe. Last night I spent some 3 hours on the handout for my presentation and now I couldn’t find the file anymore. Somehow I manage to save it in Mr.’s profile…

  96. rq says

    Giliell
    Yeah, I got told a whole bunch of crap about being pregnant and attending funerals, too. Same sort of idea.
    (My mother, however, attended her father’s funeral while pregnant with me, and the attitude was the opposite – she was told she would give birth to a very gifted child. Interesting, the consistency in traditional superstitions…)
    Also, I think the Universe wants you to know the correct place to put all that intellectual stuff… In Mr.’s profile!!! /snark

    Beatrice
    Misdirection might work a bit better – Look, Universe, over there! kitties!!!

  97. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Look rq and Beatrice, I would have thought that with your obviously deep understanding of the magical nature of the universe you’d recognise what I’ve been doing. Yup, by denying, despite having physical proof such as a nasty little scratch on my right thumb from trying to pry up the top sheet of a bundle of tin roofing to see what the colour we chose looks like in real life, that there might, just possibly, baring the zombie apocalypse or such like unnatural disaster, be a house constructed in the near future, I’m doing the ol’ reverse one and a half logic gainer on the universe. And you people, with your kind words and good wishes, ARE NOT HELPING!*

    Oh and Socio-gen the Black Helicopters waved back and were wondering when you were going to return the code book? The also mentioned something about peas, JFK and a quarter horse named Florence that sounded a little too good to be true.

    *run-on sentences are too good writing, cause, cause, magic that’s why!

  98. rq says

    Fine, then FossilFishy: that house will never get up off the ground! You know why? Because I’m not seeing any building site, nor any materials at this imaginary building site, or anyone to put those materials together. ;) Is that better?
    (And is the tin roofing the right colour in real life?)
    And speaking of zombie apocalypses, yesterday I gave Beatrice pink hair, and today she says she looks like a zombie due to not wearing make-up. Zombies in bright pink troll hair? That sounds like an apocalypse to me.

  99. Have a Balloon says

    opposablethumbs

    I like the way your nym can be read as either “here, have this nice balloon I’m offering you” or “Have balloon (will travel)” :)

    I did not think of that. Hooray!

    Giliell
    Yes. Society piles on the pressure to women to buy and wear make-up, in lots of cases it’s compulsory for them to do it, but if women spend money on it then they’re being frivolous. We had a case in the UK with a woman working at Harrod’s who refused to wear make-up and got fired, or something. She complained that it was discrimination and the company said it wasn’t, because men have the ‘equivalent’ dress code of ‘shave and wear a tie’. I never understood how that was equivalent to ‘put chemicals on your face’. That case scared me.

    Funerals
    One of my friends from school was 13 when her grandfather died. On the day of the funeral she was told she couldn’t go because she was on her period.

  100. rq says

    Have a Balloon
    re: funerals
    SERIOUSLY?? Wow. Not exactly helpful to say that to someone grieving. (Couldn’t they wait for her period to end to have the funeral? /more snark)
    Thankfully, though, while all my children have been strolled through cemeteries before the age of 1, as well as been taken on extended walks through the local forest which is also a mass grave site from WWII, they have all survived past the age of 1 and, to my unprofessional eye, seem fairly normal and unpossessed by any spirits. Then again, sample size = 3, so I guess that doesn’t count. Right?
    (And I did go to that one funeral while pregnant, and nothing happened. Dundundunnnnn…)

    re: make-up
    That case sounds a bit freaky to me, too. I can understand dress-code “wear clean, ironed clothes; tie hair up; keep nails clean”, but to be fired for not wearing make-up is discrimination (not exactly equivalent to the whole shave+tie thing), in my unofficial and unlegislated book. What if she’s allergic to make-up? Is her workplace going to compensate her expenses in having to buy more expensive make-up?

  101. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Thank you rq, the cosmic wangdoodle thingamebob of balancing quantum vortexes is now restored.

    And just how would I know if the tin colour was right? What with it not existing and all. Never mind that I couldn’t actually separate these non-existent sheets far enough without damaging them to see…

    We ordered Evening Haze for the roof, Loft for the walls and Pale Eucalypt for the guttering, downspouts and such like. Scroll across the colour bar to see names. We chose to go with a steel exterior all round because it has good thermal properties in that it doesn’t retain heat and because all the off cuts are fully recyclable.

    Zombie Beatices with pink hair? Sounds like a party to me!

    And with that bit of barely coherent nonsense I’ll bid you all a good night.

  102. blf says

    how do I get rid of the cooties?

    The mildly deranged penguin has only heard of two methods:

    (1) They are apparently quite tasty. Scrape yourself down throughly, sauté in butter and olive oil, and serve with rice pilaf or pasta, topped with a mélange of melted cheeses. However, they return quick quickly, but if you keep it up — every meal for six or seven decades — then eventually the problem is solved.

    (2) Barnacles. Totally immerse yourself in the sea for a year or three, making sure you acquire a heavy coating of barnacles. Any surviving cooties leave, albeit it’s not quite certain why, and new ones attempting to reinfest just bounce off your barnacles. So to keep from being reinfested you have to maintain a thick coating of healthy barnacles.

    I’ve attempted to test the first method. However, for some reason, any girls I’ve approach whilst wearing a full biohazard suite and carrying a cleaver tend to run away screaming. Most don’t even stay around long enough for me to ask them to remove all their clothes.

  103. Beatrice says

    Have a Balloon,

    One of my friends from school was 13 when her grandfather died. On the day of the funeral she was told she couldn’t go because she was on her period.

    *hate*

    I can’t even imagine how horrible that made her feel.

  104. rq says

    FossilFishy
    Very nice imaginary colours. Or should I say, they’re so atrocious, I’m practically puking, and thank the Universe your house will never go up, because no one would want to look at the horrendous pile of materials it would be. (If I’m pushing too far in the opposite direction, sorry, but take it as insurance against anyone else’s good wishes.)
    And good night!!

    blf
    I can’t imagine why you’d illicit that response from girls. I’m sure your calm explanations about removing cooties and sauteeing them in butter and olive oil (add garlic?) did’nt sound freaky at all.
    My preferred method would be (2), but, unfortunately, I just can’t spare the time (at the current moment) to immerse myself in the cold, stormy Baltic Sea long enough for all necessary barnacles to take hold (plus, they might be the wrong species). I’ll just head back out to outer space and figure out a way to nuke them from the other side of the moon.

  105. says

    But then, he also is a big Velikovsky fan.

    There are still Velikovsky fans?

    I’m actually finding this strangely… charming. I wonder if the folk who first realized an angler had actually caught a live coelacanth felt a bit like this.

  106. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I get to cook at 22 lb turkey today that the Redhead bought for the family reunion prior to her stroke. It was stored in the neighbor’s freezer, who wants the space back. We’ll be giving a lot of turkey away.

  107. birgerjohansson says

    House problems? Readers of Jack Vance knows you just need a seed for one of those houses from Izm. Water it daily.
    — — — — — — — — — —
    Subprime Bankers Have Much To Be Thankful For “Mortgage Fraud Lawsuits Fail To Deter Bank Cheating, Experts Say” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/mortgage-fraud-lawsuits-_n_2174002.html?ref=topbar
    “If you want one case to describe the greed culture that existed in the mortgage industry, this is it,” Cox said. “Gordon Gekko couldn’t have done better.”
    — — — — — — — — —
    Pardon the Turkey, Not Industrial Farms http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karen-steuer/pardon-turkey-not-farms_b_2168534.html?ref=topbar
    — — — — — — — —
    After Hurricane Sandy, The Costs Of Doing Nothing To Protect New York Come Into Focus http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/hurricane-sandy-new-york_n_2171199.html?ir=Green&ref=topbar “SOFT EDGES” could blunt some of the damaging force of waves from hurricanes
    — — — — — — — — —
    Mount Tongariro Erupts: New Zealand Volcano Eruption Filmed By Teacher (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/mount-tongariro-erupts-new-zealand-eruption-video_n_2172511.html?ir=Green&ref=topbar A volcano that erupts without warning? That is cool! Huh-huhuhuhuh.

  108. says

    rq:
    DarkInfant, Mr Darkheart, and I are all doing quite well, if not a little tired. In fact, I was up so early taunting you all with food because she was nursing at 5 AM. (Thank goodness for tablets. One thing no one tells you about breast feeding is how absolutely boring it is.)

    I still have a batch of stuffing to make– this one sans pork. I have a feeling that the turkey bacon/butter substitution just isn’t going to be as good… .

  109. Beatrice says

    What’s the point of the US president pardoning a turkey? They are going to have another one for dinner anyway.

  110. Have a Balloon says

    She wasn’t too upset – she wasn’t very close to him because they lived overseas, and because she was still quite young she didn’t really get the whole ‘unclean’ implication. She told me that it was the morning of the funeral and her mum just went up to her to ask if she was on her period, and she said yes, so her mum said “oh, you won’t be able to come then.”

  111. birgerjohansson says

    “There are still Velikovsky fans?”

    Bad ideas never die, but sometimes they change packaging.
    Madame Blavatsky’s “abnors” became Scientology’s wossname (evil spirits trapped inside volcanos). Hubbard just changed a few names.

    Speaking of volcanos, see link about Mount Tongariro. The spirits were so pissed off, they gave no warning.
    — — — — — — — — —
    You *should* walk the kid across cemeteries, so the souls of the evil can attach themselves to the cerebellum. That is how you prepare the kids for a future as corporate raiders.

  112. rq says

    Audley
    Breastfeeding time is a great time to catch up on reading. Because all those gooey stories about bonding, yes, they seem to omit the fact that… well, it is boring. I got through many a novel that way (no tablet for me; lucky you!).

    Beatrice
    Because pardoning a turkey just makes sense. Just ask the Mildly Deranged Penguin. I’m pretty sure there’s a connection somewhere.

    Have a Balloon
    Still. How utterly hateful. It’s bad enough feeling a bit weird having your period (dunno, when I was 13, I felt a bit weird about my period) without having other people tell you it’s unclean.

    AJ Milne
    I’m a Velikovsky fan. In the ‘ooh look another science fiction writer’ kind of way. His wikipedia page states that, ‘Within weeks of his arrival in the United States, WWII began.’ You’d think he had something to do with it.

    Nerd of Redhead
    Good luck with that beast. Have you pardoned it, by any chance?

  113. rq says

    birgerjohansson
    I was not aware the spirits actually went for the cerebellum. I thought it was more frontal cortex or something. (What if I don’t want them to be corporate raiders?)

  114. says

    What’s the point of the US president pardoning a turkey? They are going to have another one for dinner anyway.

    So very cynical. You do realize that many pardoned turkeys in the past have gone on truly to make something of their lives, these lives now turned around, the stain of their past sins now long behind them, following this single act of transcendent mercy, do you not?

    Indeed, pardoned turkeys have gone on to become master chefs, captains of industry, prominent social justice crusaders, and, in one remarkable case, president.

    … I’ll leave it to the reader to work out which president*.

    (*/Oh, okay. One hint. Honestly, how did no one ever notice that Reagan** had a dewlap?)

    (**/And it is thus also left as an exercise for the reader whether this is genuinely an argument in favour of pardoning turkeys.)

  115. says

    @ Audley Z. Darkheart

    Teh babz is reading Pharyngula while being fed? Tres cool.

    (For some reason I missed the pix of DarkInfant somewhere a million miles up in the threads. Do you have a linky?)

  116. blf says

    I’m a Velikovsky fan. In the ‘ooh look another science fiction writer’ kind of way.

    Even as science fiction it’s absurd. It isn’t even good fiction, ignoring the totally non-existent science.

    I sortof view Velikovsky as an Uri Geller — a kook some people find entertaining with a few conned into believing there’s something real in the trickery and fiction.

  117. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Have you pardoned it, by any chance?

    If by pardon, you mean thaw, that is almost done. I can absolve it of all guilt for its crimes against humanity (none I suspect) prior to becoming a bird brick later.

  118. cazfans says

    Audley,

    We made pork free stuffing once with ground beef & lots of the “right” spices (mostly sage, thyme, salt & pepper). It worked OK, the trick was the spices.

    Caz fans

  119. broboxley OT says

    decided on the hot sauce injection for the turkey
    last night took 1/4 stick of butter 1/3 cup hot sauce melted together then injected into breasts and thighs of turkey. This would be a medium hot wing sauce.
    rubbed soy sauce over all of the exposed skin then liberally covered the skin with seasoning salt (no msg)
    stuffing was cornbread stuffing package with onions, peppers, celery, dry salami, smoked oysters (small) and Mandarin orange slices. Put it all together and let it marinate in the fridge overnight.
    Spouse will put it in the oven covered at 325F around noon. After I get off work I will make mashed potatoes and mashed yams.
    Luckily work is quiet for a change.

  120. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    “Here in Britain, of course, it’s Thank Fuck We Got Those Weird Jesus Bastards On The Boat Day”

    ― Warren Ellis

  121. blf says

    I can absolve it[a turkey] of all guilt for its crimes against humanity (none I suspect)…

    How amazingly little you know about turkeys……

    …prior to [it (I assume)] becoming a bird brick later.

    Gee, a month or several ago, people got all squeamish about preparing lobster. And now they are enthusiastically talking about doing really nasty things to turkeys. Wicked witches living in gingerbread cottages are a picnic compared to youse guys </snark>

  122. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    I am grateful that I do not live under the theocracy that the Pilgrims desired.

    Shit, they were not happy living in the Netherlands. Too permissive.

  123. rq says

    blf
    That’s what I mean. He’s mildly entertaining, with completely fictional theories, and I wonder, where do they come from (his theories)? And that makes me a fan: the obscure thought processes, I find them irresistible…!!!

    +++

  124. thunk, cold air advection says

    We’re cooking a 6.5 kg turkey (free range, small farm, we know where it’s from), no stuffing.

    We usually do goose, but this is a departure from (or returning to?) tradition.

  125. says

    I’m not sure what happened yesterday, the whole thing is a blur even before the excessive drinking. Somehow I came home with a 17 pound turkey… and a duck… and a ham. I apparently made 10 different side dishes and appetizers last night. I didn’t shut my office door properly when I went to bed, and my Office Cat is so traumatized that she shit on the bookshelf and is still hissing at me.

    The amazing thing is that when I woke up(before noon!) and came downstairs? The kitchen was SPOTLESS. Like someone else came and cleaned it for me.

  126. Matt Penfold says

    I am grateful that I do not live under the theocracy that the Pilgrims desired.

    Shit, they were not happy living in the Netherlands. Too permissive.

    And the reason they left England was because they were annoyed they were the ones being subjected to religious persecution rather than the ones doing the persecuting.

  127. Beatrice says

    Since everyone is talking about food, I’m now eating that squid risotto I mentioned yesterday. Yummy.

  128. Rey Fox says

    Boycott Hobby Lobby

    Way ahead of you. I already personally boycott any large business that closes on Sundays. I figure if they’re that afraid of the arbitrary dictates of an invisible sky daddy, or are putting on a show of such, it’s a pretty good indicator of rot throughout the company. Admittedly, I’m only basing this off a sample size of two thus far (unless anyone has any more examples), but it’s proven its worth.

    “Here in Britain, of course, it’s Thank Fuck We Got Those Weird Jesus Bastards On The Boat Day”

    Hmm. As if the genocide of Native Americans wasn’t enough cause to get depressed on Thanksgiving. Poor Jefferson et al., the Enlightenment fans were the richer and more on-the-ball folks at that point and they tried to put this nation on a good foundation, but did they know that they couldn’t fight the tide of the Puritans and their ilk forever?

  129. birgerjohansson says

    rq,
    My memory of how the brain is built has faded since I was a young student.
    “What if I don’t want them to be corporate raiders?”

    Oh, I get it. Yes, warlords, cocaine barons and televangelists also make a lot of $$$ and get lots of respect. It was wrong of me to assume everyone else have the same ambitions as I do.
    .
    “It isn’t even good fiction, ignoring the totally non-existent science”
    The same can be said about the “pyramid on Mars trope, the Bermuda Tricorn Area, Nessie surviving in a very small, frugal
    lake and 100% of religions.
    But it did not stop a lot of people from buying it. If I can decode what makes garbage successfull I will make millions.
    — — — — — — — — — —
    “Instant facial recognition a two-edged sword” http://phys.org/news/2012-11-instant-facial-recognition-two-edged-sword.html I recall David Jones (aka Daedalus) of New Scientist magazine/Nature suggested that in the future, public access to surveillance cameras coupled with face recognition software would re-introduce the kind of social control that used to be a fact of life in small villages.
    The government would get that kind of control free, just by appealing to people’s curiosity.

  130. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Poor Jefferson et al., the Enlightenment fans were the richer and more on-the-ball folks at that point and they tried to put this nation on a good foundation, but did they know that they couldn’t fight the tide of the Puritans and their ilk forever?

    The supreme irony, the southern colonies that were founded purely for economic reasons ended up being the eastern part of the bible belt. While the religious colonies, New England (Do not forget, Mormonism started in New York), ended up being more secular.

  131. says

    Theophontes:

    I miss Caine. I hope Theo is getting regular scritches too.

    I miss you too. ♥ I’m busy! Too busy lately. All the rats are well except for Merlin, who took a very bad bite to the tail the other day. He’s recovering and it looks like his tail will be okay eventually.

    Theo is curled up inside my robe as I type, getting pets and scritches. Peas, corn and chocolate soy milk have been served for breakfast and I have to get the work day started.

  132. thunk, cold air advection says

    Hi Caine! Sorry about Merlin; hope he gets better.

    Give some scritches to Basil as well.

  133. blf says

    The duck. It’s gottabe the duck. They’re dangerous.

    Not the one in my oven

    Bad move. Seriously bad move. Ducks are dangerous, but slow to get going… you’re warming it up!! It will soon burst forth and vent its red-hot anger on you, the cat, and the neigbouring state.

  134. Matt Penfold says

    The only way this bird can vent its red-hot anger is if I get some grease spatter on me. Duck is a fatty bird.

    But duck fat does make for seriously good roast potatoes.

  135. carlie says

    Socio-gen – I’m there with you. Hope your dinner is good!

    Audley – Happy Thanksgiving! Your gift is still sitting on my table – it will get mailed sometime before DarkBaby goes to college…

    My mum got told if you bring an infant to a cemetery before they turn 1 they’ll die before that age…

    My grandfather died a month after my older son was born, and going back for the funeral was his first introduction to the family. So he was at a funeral AND a cemetery. He’s still very much alive.

    I’ll complain about sales a little more. The stores all started their online sales for tonight/tomorrow early this morning; don’t know if that was a secret plan to begin with or one did it and they all followed suit in an avalanche. Ordered older child’s present. Amazon has had younger child’s present listed as being one of the scheduled sales tonight for the last two weeks, but it’s suddenly gone from the lineup, so now I have to search around and see if anyone else has it on sale at all (this had been the best deal in the last month by about $10). Argh.

  136. carlie says

    Also, turkey is in the oven, and per our own little family tradition, butter has been churned. (if one can call “shaken in a plastic container” churned).

  137. blf says

    The only way this bird can vent its red-hot anger is if I get some grease spatter on me.

    Yeah, when it bursts forth from the oven, all warmed up and screaming obscenities and curses, oven shrapnel and flying hot grease are some of the accompanying dangers. However, the duck is yer main problem. It’ll charge at you, jabbing the cat en route with the meat thermometer, and launch a furious ferocious assault.

    They make duck-proof armoured suits. Which work (the mildly deranged penguin has one). However, the suits are not bean-proof.

  138. says

    HI Caine
    I’ve seen that you’re busy. I can’t believe yo started the whole thing over again *serious respect*

    +++
    Superstition around funerals
    I guess it has to do with the times when infant mortality was fucking high and people clutched every straw they could find.

    +++
    So, since my kids have been singing Christmas songs all week I figured it’s time I exchange the Halloween lights with some Christmas lights…

  139. says

    Hallo Beatrice! Pets delivered to little Beatrice. She’s currently enjoying some whole grain rotini.

    Hi Carlie, Happy Thanksgiving to you!

    Rey, Merlin is alright, he’ll have quite the battle scar and he left seriously impressive swaths of blood all over yesterday. He’s not fond of me at the moment because of the antibiotics & pain meds I’m making him take, but he’s been back to business as usual, chasing the girls all over the place.

    Giliell, I know, I’m crazy. Hey, third time’s the charm, right? I need to get 36 pieces of red work done today and catch up with the black work on the tail.

  140. says

    Re ‘Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women’…

    It’s one of those things really does keep me up at night. What happens when nasty old authoritarians adapt powerful new technologies for their own purposes.

    Networks, digital communications, it’s always been a bit of this, a bit of that. Disruptive, let new communities flourish, make end runs around old methods of controlling discussion, yes, sure, they can do all that.

    … and then offer increasingly powerful and intrusive methods of monitoring people, to the regimes that start looking for that, yeah, too.

    It seems unlikely to me the gnus would be much of anything without the net. And sometimes, it lets people trapped in previously closed and cloistered communities escape, or at least see outside, see a wider world, realize there are other people who live other ways. Scientology, as one example, is probably having its teeth pulled in large part because anyone can find out about the Xenu nonsense and other, nastier, more direct crimes of the sect more easily, given what’s out there on the web…

    … but then again, a police state can really watch everyone now. And authoritarian threads within formerly more permissive states see possibilities to use such technologies, turn such places effectively into police states with them. And people are lulled by notions of security from such surveillance, and forget the simple lesson that where power can be gathered together, someone will gather it, and technology changes the game, offers huge new opportunities to the virtual Stalins-to-be, if they’re quick enough to see the possibilities.

    What the US and the UK, as two examples, have been becoming, with cameras and surveillance of the essential means of public comunications and burly men with automatic weapons guns ever more casting their shadow in public places, due to various anxieties about security threats, that’s one alarming thing…

    And then there’s this lovely vision: a mediaeval monarchy with 21st century networking and surveillance technology at their disposal.

  141. Beatrice says

    That’s funny ‘cos that’s the only pic when she wasn’t pooping.

    Ooooh, so that‘s the reason for that worried/concentrated frown in the last photo.

  142. says

    Tho’ it is in no way Thanksgiving here, as I’ve a ski condo to supply, shortly, and the weekend will be really busy up there, I’m baking bread today.

    It’s one of those things I’ve worked out you can do while working. Since so much of it is just waiting for stuff to rise.

    Traditional sponge and dough method. So it’s: make sponge. Set timer. Return to work. Add dough, knead, cover. Set timer. Return to work. Break into loaves. Cover again. Set timer. Work. Put in oven. Set timer. Return to work.

    … at which point much tastiness abounds. And it’s really only the kneading step that takes any appreciable time.

  143. Beatrice says

    Aha!
    Thank you, AJ Milne! I bought some button mushrooms today and wasn’t sure what to do with them. I’ll buy a couple of courgettes and make bread.

    yesssss…

    —-

    How the hell is a person of low self-esteem supposed to write a good cover letter?! I can’t convince myself that I’m worth the effort and I’m supposed to persuade some stranger. In a short letter!?
    /rhetorical

  144. Have a Balloon says

    Augh

    So apparently, an influential parliamentary committee carrying out an inquiry into “Women in the workplace” decided to invite an MRA to give evidence, because they want to hear ALL THE OPINIONS.

    His evidence apparently consisted of “the gender pay gap should be bigger because women don’t like working, they don’t want to be promoted and they’re just cutting out more qualified men.”

    Now I know how LGBT people feel when religious bigots are allowed to testify in court about why they can’t have nice things. :(

    Also hurtful: the comments in this article basically saying “yes well he’s right stop whining.”

  145. Have a Balloon says

    AJ Milne that looks so tasty.

    Almost as tasty as peas.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    *runawayrunawayrunaway*

  146. Beatrice says

    AJ Milne,

    Nice!

    I’m now thinking, since I’ll be baking, I might as well make a loaf of ordinary bread too. And I do have some sunflower seeds.

  147. carlie says

    How the hell is a person of low self-esteem supposed to write a good cover letter?! I can’t convince myself that I’m worth the effort and I’m supposed to persuade some stranger. In a short letter!?

    Pretend you’re somebody else. Seriously. Might get you past your mental block. Pretend you’re your best friend you’re writing the letter for – you’d write a smashing good letter for your best friend, right? Right.

  148. says

    Urrrrgh
    I has upset.
    I wanted to call my family to tell them that we won’t stay for dinner tomorrow. Tried to call my mum, nobody picks up. Nothing to worry, they’ll be downstairs at gran’s and have forgotten the phone upstairs. Call gran, no reply either. Call sister on the mobile, still no reply.
    Fuck.

  149. Beatrice says

    Giliell,

    I understand that you can’t help worrying, but it’s probably a weird coincidence.
    *hugs*

    I hope you reach one of them soon (and that it was just a case of mobiles buried deep in the bag and gone unheard).

  150. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Now that I’m awake:

    Azkyroth, I am confused. Did something I said come across as metaphorically clubbing you? I was intending the exact opposite, so I really hope not!

    Not you specifically. I don’t even remember what you said.

    I was remembering other conversations. I personally have a weird relationship to not just gender roles but the concept of gender itself which doesn’t fit very well into either the “traditional” narratives or the narratives I’ve seen preferred by trans activists and their allies, and when I’ve tried to discuss my own experience and feelings people have tended to be….less than gracious. I found the “joke” validating while it lasted. :/

  151. opposablethumbs says

    Yay Caine is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ahem. Good to see you :-D

    DarkInfant is looking good there, Audley! Love the Possessed Demon Baby look :-) (but also the general cuteness).

    Saudi Arabia. Fuck. Just … fuck. What would they do to a woman who wears visible chains in public. Find some way to punish her more, I guess.

  152. says

    BTW, has anybody seen Ogvorbis?
    I knew he had some hard time at work in front of him.

    +++
    In the realm of heartbreaking fuck:
    I just called my other (paternal) gran to invite her for coffee and cake on the second day of christmas (that is a very traditional German invitation, coffee and cake) and she talked to me how nice it was and that she’s glad and that sure my mum can’t do all the stuff she used to do anymore, it’s just to hard for her because of (maternal) gran.
    And you want to shout down the line that no, for fuck’s sake, this has nothing to do with grandma but everything with Schnapps and that this had already been going on way before gran fell ill and that we had just covered it up.
    And instead you go on with the lies and you agree and fake sincerity because really, what good does it do to rob a 91 year old her beliefs about her wonderful daughter in law?

  153. Beatrice says

    chigau,

    I really hope he is ok. His disappearance after that bit in the vegan thread is worrying. :(

  154. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I really hope he is ok. His disappearance after that bit in the vegan thread is worrying. :(

    I just hope he and wife are off with spawn, and away from the computer.

  155. rq says

    chigau
    I haven’t heard/seen anythign of Obvorbis since I was away for the weekend, it’s been nearly a week…
    I hope all is well!

    Beatrice
    Was it bad? :(

  156. Beatrice says

    Nerd,

    Yeah, it will probably turn out to be something like that. Weird coincidence, like with Giliell’s phone calls.

  157. rq says

    chigau
    I got through some of that thread, but I’m not at that nerves-of-steel point yet, where most of you seem to be. :/
    I left it when it got too difficult for me.

    And that last comment by Ogvorbis isn’t too encouraging. :(

  158. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Audley, the baby looks adorable. And rather grown-up. I mean, most babies that age look more like AJ Milne’s bread (which looks good, too), but that little precious looks lively. You did good.

    —–

    The child here is having trouble with her boyfriend of the moment, and was telling us how she was going to go find a Muslim man, because “they just worship their women”. She was in no mood to listen, but we got across the fact that we thought otherwise, which is doing better than usual.

    —-

    I just came up with an excellent idea for a new design of solar cooker, and was glad to feel the creative particles sleeting through like they used to. I’m still mulling it, but starting to realize that getting a prototype built is going to be damnably difficult for me, here and now. Well, I shall have to be creative about that, then.

  159. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Thomas T. Turkey (Redhead’s description) has finally thawed, been buttered, salted, and garlic powdered, and tossed in the oven with pop-up indicator in the breast and a real bimetallic thermometer in the thigh (and a thermocouple BBQ fork at ready if needed). Even I should be able to determine when it’s done.

  160. says

    Menyambal
    Urgh. I should hook her up with my ex-BFF some day who, as a very young woman got herself a woman-worshipping muslim guy. He worshipped her until he had her seperated from her friends and family and then made her stay at home while he went out to amuse himself.

    +++
    Now I’m trying hard not to be biased against somebody whose first and last name together add up to “Christian Apostel”, but the poor guy hopefully can’t help it

  161. says

    … most babies that age look more like AJ Milne’s bread…

    (Looks thoughtful…)

    Hrm. One sec. Should prolly check something…

    (Mouse click sounds…)

    Oh. Nope. Those are all loaves of bread, all right.

    (/Wouldn’t have been so dreadful a faux pas, would it? I mean, all I’d have had to do is change the caption to ‘Two loaves and a baby’…)

  162. Beatrice says

    Cooking time should depend on the size, so… how big is it?

    Note: even if you answer, I won’t actually be able to say anything helpful. I have never cooked a whole turkey in the oven, only chickens up to 1.5, maybe 2 kg.

  163. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Also, I went to a Tau Beta Pi bowling event on Saturday. Best pun of the night: “I’m a Physics double-major. OF COURSE my spin is non-classical.”

    ^.^

  164. rq says

    I like finishing work, even when it’s late.

    +++

    Improbable Joe
    I hope complete disaster can be averted!

  165. Beatrice says

    rq,

    At least you are doing something useful instead of sleeping, I’m just sitting here and doing nothing. Or well, I’m waiting for my hair to dry a bit more before I go to bed. Otherwise, it will stick in all kinds of amusing directions in the morning.

  166. rq says

    Beatrice
    I suppose, but it was a silly translating job which I would much rather have slept through. Although, considering it’s that extra cash that is eventually going to buy us new furniture, I’ll take the translating.
    Amusing directions for hair is cool. Just dye it bright pink, to make people really sit up and say ‘Wow!’

    Anyway, that also means I should get to bed before the usual mid-night wake-ups. Thanks, kids.

    Good night to all!!

  167. cm's changeable moniker says

    You know, I thought I was pretty well-informed about the causes of the financial and economic crisis … and then, courtesy of RationalWiki, I find this (from 2009; apologies if it’s old news):

    Did Christianity Cause the [Subprime] Crash?

    tl;dr summary: prosperity gospel => subprime loans => boof!

    … and even in the aftermath, the delusion is still strong.

    *headshake*

  168. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Caine and Audley, Happy Turkey/Tofurkey (insert preference) day. Our feast featured turkey, roasted root veggies, roasted brussels sprouts w/ garlic, stuffing with venison sausage, salad (with lettuse from our garden…in November) and cranberry relish. Cheesecake for dessert.

  169. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Damn, I almost forgot the most important part of todays menu–a delicious helping of schadenfreude that Mitt R-Money’s share of the vote is going to be damn close to 47%. I only wish he had enough sense of irony to share the deliciousness with me.

  170. says

    Well… that turned out weird. Dinner, I mean. Turkey is done, but I already ate duck so the bird got stripped and wrapped and refrigerated. The duck/turkey drippings are now gravy. I’m going to have some pie in a few minutes. I had such big ambitions, but I didn’t quite pull it off. The winner of the meal was the Brussels sprouts. Wow, they are so so good when bought fresh and roasted.

  171. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Improbable Joe–agreed on the Brussels Sprouts. The heat brings out the sweetness.

  172. a_ray_in_dilbert_space says

    Caine–it was not so much a celebration as a dinner alone with the wife…which come to think of it, is kind of a celebration.

    As to Thanksgiving, I prefer to think of it as Lincoln’s invention rather than that of the Puritans.

  173. says

    A_Ray:

    As to Thanksgiving, I prefer to think of it as Lincoln’s invention rather than that of the Puritans.

    The actual history of it is nasty and blood-soaked. For me, it’s a day of mourning. I tend to hide out most of November and simply enjoy being able to have Mister home for an extra day.

  174. cicely says

    For those who don’t know, this week’s Doonesbury theme is the post-election math-and-science victory parade, […]

    And it has been awesome!

    FossilFishy: perhaps your house summoning ritual should include miniature sawhorse fetishes? It’s just that the arrival manifestation of a new house always seems to be preceded by the appearance of saw horses, so maybe you could sorta ‘prime the pump’?

    The last time I wore makeup…hmmm…Son’s wedding (seven years ago)? No, wait—just last Halloween. I used eyeliner pencil and eye shadows of various colors to draw a butterfly mask. It all worked very well in that capacity.

    My biggest problem with make up, on me, is the way it slithers around my face, refusing to stay where it is put. Especially the foundation. Powder doesn’t seem to help.

    *hugs* and a wish for adequate sleep for Audley.

    Giliell, sorry to hear about the wa$hing machine. I assume the pencil had been left in a pocket?

    Son once left a blue-purple crayon in his pants pocket. It got through the washer alright, but boy did it make a mess in the dryer! Crayon melted into everything. :(

    I’ll just sit here with my mobile phone close by.

    Just in case. Certainly not expecting anything, nope, nope, nope!
    :)

    What if she’s allergic to make-up? Is her workplace going to compensate her expenses in having to buy more expensive make-up?

    Don’t be silly! If she is unable to comply with the <eye-roll>entirely sane and reasonable</eye-roll> requirements for that job, then she is free to find some other job. One that may not pay as much, but which accepts skanks as employees.
    -

  175. says

    Happy turkey day to all the USAnians! (I’m not calling it “Thanksgiving” after the stuff I’ve read recently.)

    Personally, I am a) not happy and b) not eating turkey and c) onto Friday already and d) not a USAnian. But whatever.

    I’m not seriously unhappy, just grumpy from not sleeping for no apparent reason. And my nice plans for the day have been all spoiled. I’m too tired to exercise. I’m not cheerful about going to work for a few hours to do some lightweight stuff. And my friend had to cancel our brunch date.

    On the plus side, I did just eat a very nice bacon and tomato sandwich. And mildlymagnificent’s coconut loaf is mildly magnificent with chocolate chips in it. And I’m very glad that I avoided the vegetarian thread.

  176. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dinner was a success. The Redhead chowed down on a turkey leg, mashed potatoes, stuffing, gravy, and green bean casserole and a glass of wine, followed by pumpkin pie ala mode. We have about 2.5 gallons of leftover turkey, some of which I’ll convert to a tetrazini.

    Watched a Nova Science Episode that showed rats engaging in empathy, releasing a fellow rat from a cage before going after treats in a similar cage, and sharing those treats with the other rat, although the first one in took a majority of the chocolate chips.

  177. says

    Alethea:

    On the plus side, I did just eat a very nice bacon and tomato sandwich.

    Oh, that sounds delish. I’m going to have to make one of those for myself one of these days.

    I’m sorry things are less than happy for you right now.

  178. cicely says

    There are still Velikovsky fans?

    Well, I can’t speak for the existence of them in the plural, but I assure you that a crusty male of the species still exists; most weeks, I could easily tag him with a transmitter 5 days outta 7, on accounta the way he tosses back the vodka…except that I rather enjoy getting paid. Still, I could point you to his lair, if you wanted to set up a conservation program or something….

    I’m a Velikovsky fan. In the ‘ooh look another science fiction writer’ kind of way.

    Ah, the same way that I’m a Sitchin fan! Makes a fantastic AD&D campaign backdrop.
    *smiles reminiscently*

    *hugs* for Caine.

    DarkInfant has such lovely glowing red eyes!

    And then there’s this lovely vision: a mediaeval monarchy with 21st century networking and surveillance technology at their disposal.

    Fritz Leiber’s Gather, Darkness!. Theocratic rather than monarchic, but still….
    -

  179. ednaz says

    Happy Thursday and/or Friday EveryOne!

    It was fun hearing how everyone celebrated, or not. : )

    We had sandwiches, Ruffles and Barq’s for lunch. Then spent (most) of the day at our computers happily reading.

    We don’t celebrate Thanksgiving. The Hoodlum and I would like to see it become a day of atonement for the genocide of the Native Americans.

    We might need another century before that happens.

  180. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Turkey dinner was quite good, and the family part was better than most.

    Part of what made it relaxing was the fact that a total lack of money means I didn’t have to plan to go out for the Black Friday sales. People from civilized countries may not realize it, but Americans traditionally start their Christmas shopping on the Friday after Thanksgiving. So the stores open earlier and earlier every year, and offer really great prices on some stuff. So Americans eat extra crazy one day, and then go out shopping as early as possible the next day.

    So it turns out that somebody’s Christmas present is something useful, that is on sale Friday morning at 5AM, so somebody needs to get in line well before that. So I’m volunteering to stand in line in a WalMart for three hours when I should be sleeping. At least it will be inside, rather than outside in the could, with a chance of getting trampled.

  181. ednaz says

    On a lighter note –

    Has anyone seen ‘The Amazing Spiderman’ (2012)?

    At the end of the movie it seemed like Aunt May figured out Peter was Spiderman. Did anyone else see that?

  182. ednaz says

    Menyambal @ 260

    So I’m volunteering to stand in line in a WalMart for three hours when I should be sleeping. At least it will be inside, rather than outside in the could, with a chance of getting trampled.

    Please take care tomorrow. It’s scary how crazy Americans can get.

  183. says

    ednaz:

    Has anyone seen ‘The Amazing Spiderman’ (2012)?

    Yeah, I suffered through it last week. Should have been called “Teen Angst Meets Wannabe Godzilla”. Bleargh.

    Erm, I didn’t like it.

  184. says

    Ednaz:

    What’s one of your favorites?

    Movies in general or comic book genre? An all time fave is Bubba Ho-Tep, another is Spirited Away, another is…nah, the list goes on forever. In comic books, the recent Avengers with Whedon at the helm was good.

    Recently watched Moonrise Kingdom, very good. Quirky, smart and fun. Also saw Cabin in the Woods, which was bloody brilliant.

  185. ednaz says

    Caine – I agree about Avengers 100%!

    The others I haven’t seen. Will have to check them out. : )

  186. says

    I got sucked into early Black Friday (Gray Thursday?) shopping. ModCloth has 50% off on a number of things and I ordered a beautiful black dress for holiday festivities. Worth the ridiculously inflated price ModCloth charges for most things? No. Worth half that price? Hell yes.

  187. mildlymagnificent says

    Good grief Alethea.

    We’ve been turning that coconut loaf out as staple family fare for decades. And in a mere couple of weeks you’ve turned it into the universal quick cake for those of varied tastes.

  188. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    I never thought of it as a Christmas movie, like the video stores did, but _Toys_ with Robin Williams, Michael Gambon, Joan Cusack, Robin Wright and LL Cool J is my favorite “Christmas” movie. It has some good music, fine acting and surreal scenery, with only a few scary spots, and it is ant-war.

    My very favorite Christmas vid is Monty Python’s _Christmas in Heaven_ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmZYIyySxPE from _The Meaning of Life_.

  189. says

    Ednaz:

    Caine – Have a favorite Christmas movie? (or top 5)

    Uh…hmm. We aren’t too into xmas movies, but we own Badder Santa (The unrated version of Bad Santa), which is fab.

    Oh, another must see, if you haven’t seen it, is Pan’s Labyrinth.

  190. Rey Fox says

    a delicious helping of schadenfreude that Mitt R-Money’s share of the vote is going to be damn close to 47%.

    My day has officially been made. A link to this information so that it may be spread far and wide?

  191. ednaz says

    Yeah, Caine it’s kind of a strange question for this group. After Tony asked about movies I got curious. : )

  192. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Hope everyone had a good day, whether celebrating the Festival of Food or not. I actually had a great day — and possibly too much wine. Got to geek out talking sociological research, social policy, and books and then won at Balderdash despite (or perhaps because of) the wine.

    In what was possibly the best moment of my life so far (aside from meeting each of my kids the first time), my uncle told me how very proud he was of all that I’ve accomplished in the last few years and how happy he is that I’m finally seeing myself the way he’s always seen me — as strong, courageous, and capable of great things. *sob*

    After I got home, my sister and I managed to figure out Google Hangout(with a lot of help from our teenage nieces) for her iPad and my laptop, so I got to see and talk to my family back home! Not as good as being there, but still wonderful to share at least a bit of the day with them.
    — —
    FossilFishy:

    the Black Helicopters waved back and were wondering when you were going to return the code book? The also mentioned something about peas, JFK and a quarter horse named Florence that sounded a little too good to be true.

    Code book? I know nothing of any code book. Nor anything to do with peas, presidents, or horses. Really…. *glances around nervously*

    funerals
    The different traditions/myths associated with funerals are interesting. In my family, everyone attends the funeral unless they’re extremely ill, infants included. My daughter was 6 weeks old when my paternal grandmother passed away and no one blinked an eye at her presence at the wake or the funeral. In my ex-husband’s family, on the other hand, a person under 15-16 is a rarity because they think any associations with death/dying will scar the kids.

    makeup
    I have a love-hate relationship with makeup. On the one hand, I feel I have to wear foundation/powder because my complexion is extremely blotchy-looking (yay, vitiligo!) and my eyes vanish in photos without eyeliner. (Really, I look like those creepy dolls with teeny buttons for eyes.) On the other, I hate that not having a perfect complexion or a naturally “perfect” face is going to see me judged as less professional or less competent regardless of my abilities.

    And, of course, wearing makeup makes me vain and a sell-out to the patriarchy, while not wearing it makes me a man-hating femi-nazi.

    Audley:
    One of the things I adored about feeding time (I couldn’t nurse) was that it was the perfect time for reading, and no one could say anything about my being lazy or whatever. (And yes, I had a few people who couldn’t understand why, a few days after a c-section, I hadn’t vacuumed or caught up on the laundry. Despite the fact that I couldn’t even stand up straight….)

    DarkInfant is so so adorable! Even with the demon eyes!

  193. ednaz says

    Socio-gen

    how happy he is that I’m finally seeing myself the way he’s always seen me — as strong, courageous, and capable of great things. *sob*

    This is so full of awesome! : )

  194. F says

    I figured that of all the places in the world to announce this, the comments section of Pharyngula would be the most appropriate venue:

    I’ve got a new kitty.

    Dis someone say “Romney”? Romney Style.

  195. says

    Good morning

    I hope all of you who ate too much are in a deep slumber right now.
    The little one just got herself dressed. She’s wearing all the right items, but not necessarily hers or in the right order.
    Those are the moments you live for as a mum :)

    F
    Yay, kitty!

    +++
    Urgh, Christmas shopping
    I’m about a trizillion years behind it and I managed to run out of black embroidery thread for the homemade stuff. And I have no idea what to put into the advent calendars and yesterday my gran ordered me to buy something for the kids because she’s sick and tired of just handing over money. And it should be something they need. But I remember that she was always very fond of giving me underwear, which is about the worst christmas present ever (if you live in a middle-class family).

  196. thunk, cold air advection says

    I was waiting for someone to mention that, F. Thanks.

    Also, how’s life? Good? Snowy? Rainy? Warm?

  197. rq says

    Good morning all!

    F
    Congrats on the new kitty! I hope you learn to submit to its violent urges with patience and grace.

    everyone who ate too much
    I wish you all a speedy and happy recovery!

    movies
    I wanted to recommend a few, but it looks like most people have already recommended the ones I would recommend, anyway. I’ll have to sift through my collection and see if there’s anything else I would recommend to anyone else.
    Oh, one off the top of my head would be Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy (the new version – is there an old one?). That was one suspenseful movie where nothing much happened.
    Also, for another creepy movie where nothing much happens, try Picnic at Hanging Rock.
    For horse-lovers, The Man from Snowy River was a childhood favourite. Especially the final horse-chase scenes and scenery.
    And an unexpected find for Husband and I in the romantic comedy genre was Music and Lyrics, which actually made us laugh enough to watch it three times (no, not in a row)/
    I second Pan’s Labyrinth and several other movies in this thread so far.

    +++

    I wish it would snow. Dreary November would be so much nicer. This whole thick-cloud-cover-with-wind is getting to me. :(

  198. Beatrice says

    F
    Congrats on the new kitty! I hope you learn to submit to its violent urges with patience and grace.

    Also, photos or it didn’t happen.


    rq,

    Oh, one off the top of my head would be Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy

    I loved that movie. Friend who went to see it with me almost fell asleep. Some people just don’t know a good thing when they see it (and she also worked afternoon shift that day, so I guess I have forgiven her ;) )

  199. rq says

    Beatrice
    I loved that movie because it was slow. They made a super-spy-thriller with barely any action. It was all about putting the little pieces together. To be honest, I don’t know about you, but I was watching it alone, late at night one of those weekends when Husband was away, and I didn’t quite follow all the leads (usually I manage a few guesses as to the conclusion of these kinds of movies), so I didn’t figure anything out. But it was still a suspenseful view.

    And I don’t know why, but one of my all-time favourite movies is Gladiator.
    And if one ignores the condescending women-saving, Sahara has its moments, too, but I definitely have a dislike of Matthew McConnaughey. Can’t even spell his name right. :P
    Has anyone here seen Pillars of the Earth (mini-series)?

  200. says

    So, about those societal expectations (mini rant ahead)
    Yes, by wearing make-up I confirm to the societal expectations that women should wear make up. But please not too much. Do so subtly. Don’t make us notice that perhaps this isn’t how you look when you get out of bed. Which is probably also why they can’t stand women who don’t wear any: It makes the truth obvious. Don’t shatter our precious illusions!
    So yes, by wearing make-up, and not much of it at that, I intergrate into the large body of women who maintain this illusion, who get held against those who don’t as an example of correct womanhood.
    And sometimes some feminists criticise my behaviour because it is seen as a happy participation in patriarchal structures and oppression.
    But the fact is that I can’t make it through the day without participating in that. I do so when I take my kids to kindergarten, I do so with every meal I cook, every load of laundry I do, every spot of dirt I clean up.
    And of course, many will argue that children have to be taken care of, meals have to be cooked, laundry has to be done, so I maybe get a pass on this.
    But I also do so by crafting nice things, by making gorgeous cupcakes, by buying myself a cool Surly.
    None of these thigs are necessary in the sense of making meals, all of them are optional fun-stuff like wearing make-up and all of them confirm traditional views about women.
    And then there’s the big life choices: Studying languages instead of going into STEM, having children, staying at home for a while. All those things are taken and flung at women who don’t confirm. The child-free woman gets told to look at me, how happy I am with my kids. It causes real, actual and severe harm to women. Yet I guess nobody will argue that I should have chosen a career I don’t like (we’re not talking about influences that might have made me dislike STEM), remained childfree although I wanted to have children and to, I don’t know, leave them alone at home instaed of staying with them.
    I mean, really, I can’t win. And neither can those feminists who argue that we shouldn’t participate in some thing or other because it reinforces patriarchal structures, because asking women to give up something they want for the sake of others is probably one of the most basic patriarchal ideas that just get put into concrete demands differently at different times and places.
    It’s not my choices that hurt other women. It’s how my choices get used to beat other women over the head with.

  201. says

    Oh hell, yeah, Giliell, the whole thing is a minefield. It can be quite freeing to realise that you CANNOT win this game. It’s utterly rigged. Are you a woman? Yes? Bzzt, you lose. Play again (Y/N)?

    Nothing is ever right, so there’s no need to worry. Do what pleases you, and the hell with the game. I do feel sad about people who are obviously still trying to win it, and hurting themselves in the process. But it’s mostly not my business.

    You may enjoy this thread – http://captainawkward.com/2012/11/20/397-pretty-should-be-optional/

  202. rq says

    Giliell
    I agree with pretty much everything you said.
    In a similar but not identical vein, that is why I have a hard time articulating to people why I could possibly still be unhappy, being married and with kids and being able to stay home and all. I mean, I have everything, right? (Well, except a daughter…) There’s no reason to feel trapped or sad or frustrated, I have everything a self-respecting woman could possibly ask for, including a university education. Plus, I’m a great cook and all I have to do at home is some laundry from time to time.
    The trouble is, that’s not all I want. I still want to continue my education. I still want to work, on my own terms (none of this evenings-and-weekends crap, although it will be unavoidable for another couple of years). I’d rather work than stay home with the kids, but come on, why would I want to work if I can stay home and do nothing (right)?

    And I love to cook and experiment, but that’s not how I would like to be defined – or at least, not only, yet every time we go out to visit to the country, even though I’m the one married into the family, it is (apparently) my responsibility to figure out what we’re all going to eat, because I have kids and all, and obviously that’s what I love to do.

    Basically, that’s why I have Rage Days – from the outside, I have the perfect everything, because I have somehow, through pure luck (I assure you) achieved the ideal family situation and the perfect kids and I still manage to keep up a few hobbies. But it’s so frustrating because if I tell anyone that sometimes the whole situation makes me unhappy, I look like an ungrateful freak, because some women are never this lucky.
    And it’s not that I don’t appreciate it. It’s just that I want a little bit more, for myself.
    Something like that.

  203. John Morales says

    Alethea, um, perhaps the performer who uses the stage name of “Lady Gaga” ain’t winning, but I don’t think she’s losing, either.

    (Yes, I know you speak in generalities, but in any distribution there are outliers)

  204. rq says

    PS Giliell
    I also realize that at least some of my current situation is temporary (I hope), and that once the littlest one grows up a bit, I’ll have the chance to go back to school and defend my rights to an education more actively (I know exactly which people will be surprised). And I also realize that, on the scale of things in the world, I honestly don’t have anything to complain about, besides this kind of trivial thing.
    But it’s so frustrating sometimes, and people’s reactions are so predictable, but it’s difficult to just ignore it.

    I compare it to when I decided to move here, and people would constantly ask me why the hell I would want to do that, if I could live the good life in Canada (even at-that-time protoHusband). One person – one – and not even a particularly close friend was simply excited that someone from North America would consider staying here. No questions, no confusion, no blame, just excited. That person is now responsible for providing me with the courage to actually be here, but he doesn’t know it, I don’t think. I may have told him once, but I can’t remember. But I am grateful to him for it.

  205. says

    rq
    Oh, I so know what you mean.
    I filled the roles of the wife, the mother, the daughter so perfectly, there wasn’t anything of me left. It had all been taken up. I guess the thing that kept me alive were my little job and my crafts, but as the energy drained and I wasn’t being good enough at mother, wife, daughter anymore I couldn’t even think about being a student anymore either.
    Hang on.

  206. says

    Oh and you know what really helps: Talking about that shit.
    Because we’re not supposed to. Because we’re not supposed to be somehow unhappy and we’Re not supposed to burden others with our little troubles.
    It’s well know that women are much more likely to become depressed, not only because we get more pressure, but also because we’re supposed to shut the fuck up about it.
    And so I was unhappy, and felt that I had more on my plate then I could handle, and then I looked to my friend who had three kids in the time I had two, who had to get back to work when the little one was a year and who has to juggle childcare with her husband and her working shift. And who has to take care of a house and not just a small flat. And who doesn’t make as much with the money of her husband together as Mr. makes alone and who would still throw a birthday party with 20 kids when I felt that my two alone were more than I could handle at the moment.
    Until we talked business, and we talked about how unhappy she was, how she didn’t know how to make ends meet, how the kids were driving her crazy, how her marriage was a disaster and that she needs help. And we were not alone anymore.
    And we weren’t judged anymore.
    We didn’t need to be afraid anymore of being an abject failure.
    And for her I was the model she meassured herself against, too. How could she complain to me when I had to deal with being alone with the kids during the week and managed everything, including handcrafted gifts?
    Talking with her, talking here, that’s important. That lets us destroy those fake images and have a more realictic look.

    I guess I’m in rant-mode today…

  207. rq says

    It’s ok, you’re driving me into rant-mode as well.
    And that’s part of the reason why I’m here, because I can’t find anyone close enough to whom I can complain. Or, I suppose which is part of the problem, anyone I feel would have the time to listen to me, or would understand. Because it’s this whole idea of coming out as a non-believer, too – I can’t (don’t want to) talk to my mum, because she’s raised 5 kids and she is now enjoying the fact that we are all grown up and she can do what she wants. I respect that (although most people seem to think she has some kind of a responsibility to watch my kids so I could go to work, because that’s what grannies are for, and I just can’t agree because I know how much my mum has put into raising us, and she doesn’t need a new set of kids to make her happy…).
    Then I know a few women who’s attitude is ‘well, it’s your damn fault for having kids if you’re not happy about it’, annnd then a few others who already have kids old enough to go full-time to kindergarten/school (and they can work full-time), and then there’s the woman to whom I could conceivably complain, but she moved away and also she could never understand why I would want to go back to school.
    There’s one with whom I’d love to talk some more, she also has three kids (boys) and she has managed to go back to school and work, and she’s not much of a typical housewife (and pleasantly unashamed of it), but we don’t get to meet too often. But last time, we both got some good complaining done, and it was really good. :)
    So I’m going to try writing things down here, and maybe that will help. Because I can’t stand the attitudes around me anymore, and I don’t have much opportunity to find alternatives locally… haha, I have no friends!! (Ok, false, I do… But everyone’s busy.)
    Meh. Thanks for listening, though. Reading, I guess, and responding. It does help.

  208. rq says

    Also, I don’t feel depressed. I feel apathetic and frustrated most times. You know, like – I know I’m perfectly capable of doing another load of laundry or washing those dishes or picking up those toys or vaccuuming again, but I just don’t care enough to do it. So I let it lie, and do it later together with Husband (who, yes, enjoys housework), and while it does make me feel guilty, most times the end result of doing it together makes me feel better overall.
    And I don’t like being apathetic. Like I could make myself care, if I tried, but then I’m terrified that I’ll relax and let go and I’ll settle for what I have, and I’ll forget all about those other plans I have for myself. And I’m scared to accept that cost of being completely happy, because I don’t know if I could pull it off for too long, anyway.
    Bah. Like you say, can’t win.

  209. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Thank you Giliell.

    Fuck anyone who tries to trivialise social media, tries to demonise the internet. They are the grand tools of our age.

    They are the instruments of radical, unprecedented social change. They are the hammer and the anvil that can, with time, effort, and a will to use them for all their worth, strike off the chains of isolation under which so many people have been buried.

    We live on the edge of an unknown abyss. The fundies feel it, and they rage and they fear. And I stand before them, exulting in the sheer possibilness that lies before us. The fall will be scary, headlong and wild, but holy fuck, it will take us to places far beyond the pitiful horizons that once girded us all.

    Rattle those chains.

    Strike at them one voice at time.

    One story after another, sharp and relentless, thrown to the world for all to see is a power beyond reckoning.

    I believe with my whole being that they will release us to a dazzling future.

    I can’t fucking wait.

  210. Beatrice says

    I’m at the opposite end of the spectrum, being single and having no kids. And I guess I’m pretty lucky in that I don’t have people bothering me about that. Well, that’s probably because they have given up on me ever losing the “single” status… or some possibly think I’m lesbian. I’m not sure, really.

  211. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Woohoo! The car has new tires all around, and I got a free donut from the WalMart people for standing in line for four hours–1 to 5AM. Well, for the first three hours the line was just me, but I had a book to read and something on which to sketch my latest idea. Once I get re-hydrated, I can get some sleep.

  212. rq says

    Beatrice
    In a way that’s just as bad, because obviously you’re an unhappy and/or incomplete womanif you’re single and with no kids!! THE HORROR!!!

    Menyambal
    Hooray for you and the car both!! Hooray for surviving!

  213. Beatrice says

    rq,

    Well, I am unhappy being single. :/
    Not so much about the kids part.

    Although, being single maybe even wouldn’t be such a bad thing, if reasons for being single didn’t bother me in other areas of life as well (or if there were any indication that my situation might change eventually). Short story: I have issues. I don’t know how to deal with people.

  214. rq says

    Beatrice
    Sorry if that came across the wrong way. :( I was running on the premise that it’s more or less a choice for you; sorry I was wrong.

    What makes you think your situation won’t change eventually? ‘Eventually’ being, sometimes, a really long time, I’ll grant you… but it’s not never.

  215. says

    (((hugs))) for you beatrice

    Ahhh, and thanks everybody for joined ranting.
    I had noticed that I’d been getting back into my “not good enough” routine” over the last week (I had some time off and I didn’t use all of it, the horrors!), focussing on what I didn’t get doe instead of the stuff I did get done.

  216. rq says

    In other news, on our recent day of independence (November 18), a young man was caught on video trying to set fire to the Latvian flag. Today, media reports that he has been identified and will soon be arrested.
    Yes, for vandalizing a sacred national symbol. Or attempting to do so, at the very least. *sigh*
    I don’t agree with his actions at all, but arrest? It’s an opinion. It’s not going to change in prison.

    Reminds me of last year, when they (I believe) fined an entire political party because it threw out a whole stack of little paper flags in the trash following an event, and that also counts as vandalizing a national symbol…

  217. carlie says

    Good morning, everyone! Or evening, as the case may be.

    Went shopping for 2 hours, left at the entirely respectable time of about 5:15am. Got all of the specific items I was going for, which were few and mostly utilitarian (cat litter for half price! Yes, I will get up early for that. Also a set of flannel sheets for the child whose last set of flannel sheets ripped last year.) Crowds were quite sparse compared to what they usually are, thanks to all the online shopping and timed sale rollouts. I’m not sure which way is better for store employees; on the one hand, they have to be at work longer and on the holiday and pay attention to what gets released for purchase when, but on the other hand, no rioting trampling desperate crowds of customers.

    I’m not seriously unhappy, just grumpy from not sleeping for no apparent reason. And my nice plans for the day have been all spoiled. I’m too tired to exercise. I’m not cheerful about going to work for a few hours to do some lightweight stuff. And my friend had to cancel our brunch date.

    That sounds like a rotten time. I’m sorry. I’d love to hang out with all Pharyngulites, but you’e always been one I thought it would be really fun to live near and go do things with. :)

    Menyambal, congrats! Hope it wasn’t too cold out there.

  218. Beatrice says

    rq,

    No problem.

    I appreciate that you and Giliell are sharing your rants here.
    *hugs* for both of you.

  219. blf says

    Why is ‘feminism’ such a tough badge to wear?:

    Students are full of assumptions about feminism, most of them wrong. …

    You’d think feminism was a four-letter word if you came to my campus.

    In a seminar a few weeks ago (about culture and diversity, by the way) the lecturer asked any feminists in the room to raise their hands. I’m ashamed to say that I didn’t — in fact, only one girl in a class of 20 people did.

    I’m not embarrassed about what I stand for, far from it, but I’m reluctant to label myself a feminist because of the assumptions people jump to.

    As Siobhan Garrigan, who studies English at the University of Lincoln, puts it: “Young people don’t want to identify as feminists because there is this man-hating, frumpy, lesbian image forced on us.”

    To me, what feminism boils down to is the realisation that, in some areas, women still have a harder deal than men.

    The control we retain over our reproductive organs is under threat …

    Women are far from equal in the workplace …

    …[W]omen remain reluctant to report the crime [rape]. The poor understanding by young men of what rape is all about worries me.

    If you type the word “feminists” into google, one of the top auto-complete options is “feminists are sexist”. …

    [Caitlin] Moran [wrote How to be a Woman which] represents today’s feminists the way we are — just informed women who don’t think we’re quite there yet on the equality front.

    That’s what I’d like people to see when I say that yes, actually, I am a feminist.

    In the above excerpt, I’ve omitted the quotes from an apparent MRA.
    Warning: The toxic MRAs are in the reader’s comments section…

  220. carlie says

    On shopping – eshakti also is doing 50% off dresses today. They’re a good company. I ordered from them once and it turned out to be the wrong size, but the quality of the dress was fine. They also go up to much larger sizes than most places and allow modifications (like adding longer sleeves) to most of their items.

    On womanhood and ranting:

    I’ve been absurdly privileged my whole life, and I was a precocious little snot. That meant that I was always told that I was going to go places™ and do things™ and be one of those breakthrough women! However, I also had a crippling amount of impostor syndrome* to go with my low self-esteem, and also was in a church that generally said women do not do those kinds of ambitious things. So I’ve always been fighting against both people not understanding why I wanted to go do anything (“Why don’t you want to stay home with your kids?”), and people telling me that what I was doing (and being scared of failing the whole time) wasn’t enough (“You don’t want to stay in this job forever, do you? Don’t you want more than that?”). I swear, if someone had sat me down when I was 14 and explained what middle management was, I’d have sighed in relief and said yes, that sounds just right for me.

    *not really, because I really wasn’t good enough! er, right?

  221. says

    #257/cicely:

    Y’know, prior to just now, somehow I don’t think I’d ever even heard of Sitchin.

    Clearly, my education has been sadly neglected.

    I hereby add The Devil’s Backbone to the movie recommendations, with the condition that if you like Pan’s Labyrinth, I figure it’s pretty likely to work for you, too.

  222. mildlymagnificent says

    not really, because I really wasn’t good enough! er, right?

    That actually brings Germaine Greer to my mind. I remember reading with one of those little chills of recognition her comments about watching very clever girls suddenly drop their intellectual bundle around the age of 13. At the time, her interpretation (and I suspect most other feminists would have agreed then) that this was all about girls succumbing to the femininity rules. That society was always pushing the prettified appearance and the submissive behaviour expectations well ahead of any individual talents or ambitions.

    Now I’m starting to think that it’s one of those instinctive responses. You know you simply can’t win. So you don’t try.

    It’s only the strong-minded who can resist or the lucky with family and other supports who can succeed. If you don’t see yourself as strong-minded enough or lucky enough, you let it go.

    Thirty+ years later, many more girls make it through that barrier to discover after graduation that educated adult women can face the same ‘can’t win’ bargain. Only the stakes are different for people with bills to pay and maybe partners and/or children in the picture.

    But still the makeup, hairstyle, grooming, clothing, behaviour and attitude gremlins will get you if they can.

  223. rq says

    mildlymagnificent
    That thought makes me very, very sad – that, at 13, the instinctive response is to give up.
    I would argue, though, that it’s not necessarily the strong-mindedness itself that might or might not carry someone through, but the support around them, either knocking down or reinforcing the belief that one might (or might not) be strong-minded.
    Because you can be as strong-minded as you like, but if everything and everyone around you, at every level of consciousness, for your entire life, is telling you that you just can’t win, I doubt you could do it. Maybe, maybe… I don’t know personally… But it would take so much undefined strong-mindedness (perhaps being stubborn to a point well beyond obstinacy?).
    And that also makes me sad.

    So here’s to the fight, and here’s to giving support, and here’s to letting young people (of all kinds, shapes and sizes) believe that they can win (a little bit), because that little bit of belief might work wonders.

  224. says

    Good day folks.

    Well… not good, because I woke up today to the realization that my packing came to a complete halt a week ago, I’ve got a massive amount of work to do, it is absolutely crunch time… and I have absolutely no interest in doing any of it, at all. Just none.

    If anything, the problem is WORSE now, because I’ve neglected cleaning over the past couple of weeks because heyI it will get done with the packing! Ummm… and now I have to do it. Shit, I think I might be fucked.

    How’s everyone else doing?

  225. rq says

    Hi, Improbable Joe.
    How can we help motivate you back into packing? Because it MUST be done. How many days do you have left?

  226. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Good morning!
    — —
    F
    Congrats on the new kitty!

    ednaz
    It was so awesome! Of course, I was so stunned and blown away that I did that really unattractive crying, runny nose, sobbing/snorting thing….

    Giliell

    It’s not my choices that hurt other women. It’s how my choices get used to beat other women over the head with.

    This!

    Alethea

    It can be quite freeing to realise that you CANNOT win this game. It’s utterly rigged. Are you a woman? Yes? Bzzt, you lose. Play again (Y/N)?

    Agreed. No matter what choices you make, you’re doing womanhood wrong. Once I realized that (turning 40 helped immensely), I just thought “Fuck it. If I’m always wrong, I might as well be wrong doing what works for me and makes me happy.”

    rq

    But it’s so frustrating because if I tell anyone that sometimes the whole situation makes me unhappy, I look like an ungrateful freak, because some women are never this lucky.

    Jeebus yes! Because we’re trained that the ultimate fulfillment for women is catching the right man and making babies and devoting oneself to the care and raising of a family — so obviously the problem must be you if you aren’t happy. [sarcasm]

    In one of my classes, we read Adrienne Rich’s Of Woman Born and I got into a real scrap with most of my classmates because they were all waxing poetic about motherhood and I — the only person who actually had children — said I completely understood where she was coming from when she talked about resenting her children because their needs limited her ability to do what she wanted. Obviously, my kids must have had a horrible life because what decent mother would ever admit that 95% of mothering is hard and often boring work, not the greatest joy in the world. If I wasn’t blissed out every second of every day of raising my children, well, the problem was me. Wanting more? Why on earth would anyone want more??

    And it’s always that you shouldn’t have had kids if you aren’t blissed out by them. My kids weren’t the problem; it was the idea that they had to be my everything that made me feel like I was being slowly strangled. It wasn’t until they were grown that I felt like I had permission to do what I wanted, and I really resent that wasted time now.

    If you haven’t read it, this is a great explanation of how the pressure to maintain the socially-demanded image of perfection is hurting us all: The Disease Called Perfection.

    What is the disease called ”Perfection”? Perhaps a list of its real-life symptoms will help you better understand it. We live in communities where people feel unconquerable amounts of pressure to always appear perfectly happy, perfectly functional, and perfectly figured. “Perfection” is much different than perfectionism.


    Giliell

    Oh and you know what really helps: Talking about that shit.

    Yes. It’s scary as hell to open up and admit the hardships, fears, struggles, inperfections, and frustrations of your life, but the amazing thing is, once you do it, you make it okay for those around you to talk about their struggles. You let them know they aren’t the only one, and the more people who are honest, the more the effect ripples.

    I started doing it after reading the post at the link above, and although I still struggle with being that open and vulnerable, my friendships have gotten deeper and more real as a result because none of us has to put on a performance for the others.

  227. says

    rq,

    The movers come a week from today. Eek!

    Part of the problem… OK, most of the problem is that I’m lazy! The rest of the problem is that I have really bad anxiety all the time and I deal with it by almost always doing 2-3 things at once, and cycling through a bunch of activities all day. For instance, right now I’ve got a movie on one monitor, this on the other monitor, the XBox is on with a game of Assassin’s Creed 3 paused and ready to pick up any second now.

    It makes it hard to work because I feel like I need the distraction to not get too anxious, but I’ve also trained myself to seek distraction so I’m bound to get sidetracked even when I do start.

    I’m going to try to go upstairs and do something there today, without getting distracted too bad by trying to set up entertainment up there.

  228. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Does it help if you have music on some portable device to plug into your ears? Or two? At least a partial distraction, while you pack… Or something loud playing downstairs while you listen to something else. I used to do homework like that, which sounds strange, but it seemed to work and helped me focus, because other parts of me were distracted.
    Just a suggestion. And good luck with all that you have to do!

  229. Beatrice says

    Joe,

    Want me to yell at you to GO START PACKING RIGHT THE FUCK NOW? :)

    It’s no problem, really. I could do with some yelling.

  230. birgerjohansson says

    Attention booklovers.
    Friday to Monday, Bookcloseouts has a book sale. http://www.bookcloseouts.com/store/browse/_/N-2jd?promo=Black+Friday+to+Cyber+Monday+Sale
    Here are some Science fiction titles I found at the site
    (-I have read them all and can recommend them):

    Brass man (Neal Asher)
    Divisions (ken McLeod)
    Fuzzy Nation by Scalzi
    Julian Comstock by Robert Wilson
    The Light of Other Days by Arthur C Clarke
    The Merchants’ War (Book Four of the Merchant Princes) by Charles Stross
    Our Lady of Darkness by Fritz Leiber
    Transition by Iain Banks¨
    The Dome by Stephen King
    — — — — — — — — —
    Anthologies: “Futures from Nature”
    Nebula Awards Showcase 2010
    Songs of the Dying Earth (stories in honour of Jack Vance)

  231. rq says

    Socio-gen @324
    *hugs* for you, too, and thank you for that link. I’m going to read it bit by bit in the hopes that it’ll be less tear-inducing.
    And yes, I hate this idea that, because I’m not always TOTALLY THRILLED to do everything that mothers are obviously supposed to love doing, including feeling mildly useless through the middle of the day, when there’s no real work to be done and no time to do something for me (so I sit in Pharyngula, mwahahahaaa), and all the other times when it’s dull and glamour-less… Anyway, because I’m not enjoying every single moment, I must hate my kids and they must be having a bad time of it.
    Which I doubt, considering they’re mostly happy, they appear well-adjusted, and they like spending time with me (but then, I would say that, right?), because surprise! I don’t push them away, I just get frustrated from time to time, because – *gasp!* I have personal needs that I want to attend to (eventually).
    This is beginning to ramble because I lost my train of thought, what with the background noise, but anyway. I’m sure you understand.

    And thank you for understanding, and thank you to everyone else who understands, and… well, just thank you.
    This is why I’m glad I started talking here, in writing form, at least. But to be honest, I think I was getting to the point where holding it all in for fear of others’ condescension etc. was becoming dangerous to my overall happiness and actual satisfaction.

  232. rq says

    Oooooh, you tell him, Beatrice! Are you actually yelling out loud at your computer screen? Because some of that would make me feel better (no, not you yelling, me yelling at the computer screen).

  233. blf says

    The mildly deranged penguin has no problem packing. It makes a mess. She likes making a mess.

    (Especially if it’s also LOUD. Hence, a favourite packing technique is to attach rockets to each item, aim carefully at a box, and ignite. Works even better if the box contains explosives or additional rockets.)

  234. says

    Since I was going to start shouting at myself in a mirror, I guess it is cool if you folks start yelling at me via your screens. I went ahead and ate lunch, fixed a big pitcher of lemonade, and set up my tablet with a set of computer speakers I had upstairs so I can listen to music while I pack.

    The house has four bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs, three rooms and a half-bath/shower stall downstairs, and I have seven days including today but NOT including moving day to get everything packed and cleaned. The downstairs is going to be more complicated than the upstairs, because there’s a lot more disassembling downstairs with the computer and TV and guitar stuff. So the plan is to take the weekend to do the rooms upstairs minus the bathroom plus the kitchen and half-bath downstairs. That gives me Monday-Thursday to pack up my office and the living room, and I’ll clean the upstairs bathroom Friday morning after I shower.

    At noon… which as I’m typing this is 15 minutes away… I’, going to go upstairs and work as hard as I can for an hour, take an hour break, and repeat until I just can’t stand it anymore. if I can get three rooms done, that gives me two days to do the kitchen and master bedroom. The trick is to break it down into manageable sections, so I figure one room=one hour give or take, and if I get done with one sooner I can move onto the next one and so on.

  235. thunk, cold air advection says

    Hia all.

    Improbable Joe: Go. Pack. Up. Now.

    rq, sociogen: *hugs*. My sympathies that you’re expected to live solely through your sprog. You’re people too– don’t forget that.

  236. Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Ugh. It’s been too long. I miss you all. I have to say that all that stuff they say about law school and there not being anywhere near enough time to learn it all: that’s true. That’s even true if you didn’t have to sell you house, move to another country, and keep crossing the border to bring back up another few boxes. It’s even true if you aren’t a new step mom trying to make things work with a terribly empowered 4-year old who just loves to refuse to do only those things that are actually necessary to do.

    But I have found a little time to myself this morning…and this:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/video/2012/nov/22/david-mitchell-soapbox-religious-freedom

    I rather loved it.

  237. rq says

    thunk @335
    Thanks. :)
    I suppose I’m just looking for the assurance that I’m allowed to feel the way I do.

  238. thunk, cold air advection says

    rq:

    I suppose I’m just looking for the assurance that I’m allowed to feel the way I do.

    There’s nothing wrong about that. Feel as you damn well please.

  239. Socio-gen, something something... says

    rq

    One of the things in Adrienne Rich’s book that really resonated with me was how she talks about how she encouraged her kids to be independent out of the “selfish” desire to have more time/space for herself.

    After reading it, I let go of all the guilt I had for carving out time and space for myself by expecting my kids to do more for themselves than many of their friends’ parents did. They learned entertain themselves, to not need me every freakin’ second, take care of each other and their own stuff, to handle issues with their siblings on their own, etc. It got easier as they got older, of course. They were doing their own laundry by 12 and could figure out and make dinner for themselves by 13-14 (if I was working late) and so on.

    The thing is, that “selfishness” on my part created three very independent adults who’ve not just survived my moving several states away, but have thrived. They grew up knowing they were very important to me, but not the sole focus of my existence, which (I believe) was good for all of us.

    Improbable Joe
    Shall I sing the packing song? I make up the words each time I move, but the various lyrics are something like “Oh holy fuck….why the hell do I own so much stuff…throw it in the box throw it the box….bubble wrap bubble wrap tape tape tape… oh shit this stupid thing is heavy can I leave it behind?”

    thunk
    Thanks! Like I said, I felt a lot of guilt because I wanted (and pursued) my own life instead of living through them, when everyone else seemed to be perfectly happy that way.

    It also puts too much pressure on kids themselves to be perfect, in order to “pay back” that devotion and single-minded focus. That’s how my mother made me feel — that I couldn’t disappoint her because she had nothing beyond me (and my siblings). If I didn’t get A’s, if I didn’t make the perfect marriage, if I didn’t have the perfect house or the perfect children…she would have wasted her entire life on a loser.

  240. says

    One hour down!! I actually got two rooms done, plus part of a third. Most of the rest of the upstairs is going to be carrying down trash at this point. I have about 300 empty beer bottles that I collected for my homebrewing project that got sidelined by the financial problems that started back at the beginning of the summer, and I am don’t think I’m going to take them with me. Although… and tell me if this is fucked up of me… I’ve hired laborers to move me, so would it be bad for me to box up the bottles and have them carry them out for recycling pick-up? Or maybe I do pack them and cross my fingers that they survive? That’s sort of “flip a coin” at this point. I certainly have enough boxes…

    Socio-gen, love your packing song. I don’t normally get past “shit fuck shit fuck shit!” before giving up.

  241. Beatrice says

    Joe,

    Great job!
    If you wrap each bottle in some old paper, they should have a pretty good chance of surviving the trip.

  242. rq says

    Socio-gen @341
    Yeah, we’re pushing for the independence aspect, but sometimes I feel guilty about that, too, because most of the mothers around me don’t see anything wrong with completely immersing themselves into the lives of their children. I know my mother wasn’t like that (we did our own laundry, fed ourselves, made our own lunches for school, etc.). So I’m not entirely sure where it’s all coming from, but it’s a bit scary, even though I know my ‘selfishness’ is allowed and (probably) even better for my kids than being that helicopter parent that can’t allow their child to do anything without their supervision. Or who tries to live through their children.
    I suppose it’ll get better as they get older and more independent all on their own, and they’ll have their own hobbies and I’ll have mine, but still… Sometimes, just overwhelming.

    And great packing song. I had a melody in my head when I read that. :)

  243. says

    Beatrice,

    Wrapping bottles in paper sounds like work, and work is what I’m trying to avoid! :) Although if you think about it, the bottles made it from the brewery to the store in cardboard boxes, and most of the bottles I have are in those same boxes, so they should mostly survive?

  244. Beatrice says

    Joe,

    If they are still in the boxes, then what are you wondering about? Get them in the truck next week and maybe you will be able to do some brewing in your new home.

  245. chigau (無) says

    Joe
    My 2¢.
    Don’t take the bottles.
    They’ll be a big headache to move and you don’t know when (or if) you will start a brewing project.

  246. Beatrice says

    Note: I have never moved, so I have no idea what is or isn’t practical.
    (But I do have this issue with throwing things away, or rather, not throwing things away even when I should.

  247. chigau (無) says

    You’re getting down to the wire, Joe.
    Be ruthless!
    I can pretty much guarantee that whatever you discard, there will be some things that you will regret later.
    And in what you keep, there will be stuff that makes you say “WTF was I thinking?” when you unpack.

  248. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    I’m notoriously bad at packing, and especially at throwing things out (also hopefully moving soon, and I’m dreading the moment), but bottles seem useful…
    And that’s the problem. If they only seem useful and you have no guarantees that the brewing will occur in the near-future, toss the bottles. How hard will it be to get new ones?
    Cut as much as you can. It’ll also make you feel better and more productive. :)

  249. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Hi all:
    Hugs and sympathies to anyone who needs them.
    I’m going to be posting infrequently for an undetermined amount of time. My cable has been shut off, so as a result, I can’t get online through my computer. I’m using my smart phone. But its not easy to type lengthy responses.
    Also, being the holidays, I get bummed out. I hate that I’ve been single 10+ years with no option in sight (joe, I signed on to MATCH.com, BTW). With family and loved ones coming together for the holidays, my loneliness becomes more palpable this time of year. Combine that with being massively broke, not being able to see my family-again-for the holidays, and having my 37th birthday coming up next month, I don’t find myself very chipper. I spent thanksgiving at work, and thankfully was task focused enough to not break down in tears, but FUCK. I just wish I had a break, you know? Mom keeps trying to lift my spirits with trite phrases like “it will get better”, “it all works out in the end”, or “its always darkest before the dawn” and I want to fucking scream. That stuff may come from a caring place, but how does it help pay the utilities?I’m sorry to be such a downer.

  250. carlie says

    rq and Socio-Gen – She’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but I got a lot of comfort out of reading High Tide in Tuscon by Barbara Kingsolver when my kids were little. It has several essays about the contradictory pulls of self and motherhood. One excerpt:

    “by working at something else I cherish, I can give my child room to be a chip off any old block she wants. She knows she isn’t the whole of my world, and also that when I’m with her she’s the designated center of my universe. On the day she walks away from my house for good, I’ll cry and wave a hanky from my lonely balcony; then I’ll walk to my study, jump for joy, and maybe do the best work of my life.”

    Joe – good job! Keep packing! Maybe set a 25 minute timer and see how much you can get done in that time, then take a break. :)

  251. rq says

    Tony
    Just lots of *hugs* and more *hugs*

    carlie and Socio-gen
    Thanks for the reading suggestions, I’ll try to seek them out and give them a try!
    And yes, carlie, that’s the reaction I’m pretty sure my mum had and that i’m hoping to have, too!

  252. says

    Well… here’s the deal with the bottles. They are all upstairs. So either way they’re all getting boxed if only for convenience in disposal. So I went upstairs and started boxing, and it turns out that a large U-Haul box holds 8-twelve packs with a perfectly square 3″ gap in the center of the box, and about 3″ at the top. Two boxes holds 16×12=192 bottles. That’s enough for 4 batches of home brew, and in the meanwhile they’ll take up a total of about 4 square feet of floor space in the garage at the new place. The rest I’ll set out for recycling.

    And that’s three rooms done. Just what I hoped to accomplish for the day, three hours sooner than I thought I would be done, and I’ll probably do some more nibbling around the edges this evening roundabout the kitchen.

  253. Mr. Fire says

    Carlie:

    I love High Tide In Tuscon!

    One of my favorite entries is the one about the peccaries taking over her little plot.

  254. rq says

    Oooh Improbable Joe that’s a nice idea! Not that I have a lot of spare cash, but if it helps Tony, why not? (As long as he agrees.)

  255. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Thank you folks for being kind and compassionate.

    Joe, rq: the thought is greatly appreciated, but many of us are struggling and I wouldn’t want anyone to go out of their way for me.

  256. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    What were you thinking, a can of peas and a pony? :)

    Here, Tony, this one‘s for you. (I’m sorry there’s no subtitles, I had a version bookmarked but the uploader took it down.)

  257. cicely says

    Son has been suffering from extreme marital turbulence, and will almost certainly be divorcing.

    I haz a massive sad.

    Bigger than that.
    :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

    Hi, Crip Dyke!

    GET PACKIN’, JOE!!!

    *big hugs* for Tony.
    -

  258. says

    cicely,

    Holy shit, sorry about your son. Divorce is tough on everyone.

    Also, I just got out of the shower, so no more packing today! Now it is time to kick back, drink a couple of beers, and hope I can play some music not so loud that I can’t tolerate it anymore, but loud enough that it will drown out most of the neighborhood noise. I can’t get this place in my rear-view mirror fast enough.

  259. rq says

    cicely
    Massive hugs for you, and for tonight, I’ll revoke all peas and horses from my conversations. :( For whatever that’s worth.
    I just hope you all manage to make it through the turbulence in whatever way is best for all parties involved, for the mutual/overall happiness of all.

    Improbable Joe
    Sounds about right to me… ;)

    +++

    Anyways a lullaby for you all, I’m off to bed… It being a wild Friday night and all. Hugs to all who want/need/are too shy to ask for them, and good nights all around!

    +++

    And Joe, GET BACK TO PACKING!!! :)

  260. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Cicely:
    I’m sorry to hear about your son’s marital troubles. I hope they aren’t compounded by outside stress like inflexible religious teachings on divorce.

  261. thunk, cold air advection says

    Tony:Ouch that you don’t have cable. My sympathies.

    Same with Cicely’s son– sorry about the predicted divorce.

  262. says

    Oh, and related to absolutely nothing…

    I always thought it was only in comic books that someone can have gray hair on the sides and dark hair on top… until I looked in the mirror tonight. I usually keep my hair close to military regs, but it has grown out enough to see it is much more gray on the sides.

  263. cicely says

    Thanks, all, for the commiserations. This is…not enjoyable. And it isn’t gonna be enjoyable.

    There are at least a couple of “good” things, here: no religious underpinnings of any sort, and no kids.
    -

  264. cicely says

    Of course, my mother would say that that was what scuttled the marriage…notwithstanding the religious underpinnings that failed completely to prevent my sisters’ divorces (2 each), or my nephews, or my aunts’, or….
    -

  265. says

    cicely, at least there’s no kids involved. And maybe it is for the best in the long run? The only think I can imagine worse than ending a bad marriage is staying in one.

  266. says

    1. BIG HUGS for Tony

    2. BIG HUGS for Cicely

    3. The rod of loving correction for Joe, should he need it

    4. Feast Day greetings for Pharygulites. It’s been a while since I posted in the Lounge but I have been keeping up a bit.

    Update: my candidate got trounced, as did many local Democrats. The national upswing in Democratic power was a bit of a solace, but it was still very sad for many of us. We are going to work to try to keep the momentum going with the organization and the connections we built through the campaign. One of the things we’re doing now is trying to make sure the “fiscal cliff” (aka the austerity bomb) doesn’t wind up leaving us with deep cuts to social benefit programs we can’t afford. Amerikaners, please to write your Congresscritters and tell them that you won’t tolerate trading progressive tax policy (i.e. raising taxes on the rich) for austerity measures like raising the age of eligibility for Medicare or Social Security benefits.

    My family is fun, the nieces are almost talking and we had some excellent food and drink. Very relaxing.

  267. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    SallyStrange:
    Thank you. These virtual hugs are uplifting.

    thunk:
    Thank you my friend. I should have added that the loss of cable isn’t that bad. It’s hardly a necessity. But with it, my internet connection is gone, and this place is important to me, so reducing my ability to be part of this community is frustrating.

  268. cicely says

    *hugs* for SallyStrange.
    I understand that the problem now is not to let the structures that helped re-elect Obama atrophy; after all, mid-terms also need attention, but attention…flags.
    -

  269. carlie says

    chigau – if we say it three times he shows up, right?

    MrFire – hi!!! I miss hearing about wee Spark. :)

    Hugs, cicely. Better now than after more years of acrimony, I suppose.

    More Tony hugs.

    Also hi, Crip Dyke!!

  270. says

    Hugs to Tony, Cicely, and others as needed.

    Joe, when you wake up again it’s packing time, remember that. Also, congrats on the distinguished silvering temples. My hairline is receding in a horseshoe pattern, leaving me with a tuft on the front, separated by an increasing area of skin from the rest of my head.

  271. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Giliel, RQ, Carlie, Socio-Gen, etc.

    I’m reading this discussion and I relate, in various ways, to huge swaths of it. Which I’m apparently not supposed to? I don’t know. :/

    We need to make this better.

  272. says

    Dalillama,

    When I wake up is the time to start even thinking about packing. I’m a little bit ahead of schedule, and if I have a solid day tomorrow I can be a good bit ahead of schedule… but if I work too hard or get too invested I could get too anxious and screw the whole thing up. I will pack/clean for an hour tomorrow, and then a second hour, and we’ll see what happens.

  273. chigau (無) says

    John Morales #384
    You’re probably right but I am very worried about Ogvorbis.
    I may post a comment on his dormant blog.

  274. carlie says

    Azkyroth – why shouldn’t you relate? You’ve mentioned before feeling ill-at-ease because of not fitting into the classic gender stereotype, and that’s the core of what we’re talking about, I think. Yes, it will be different for men and women in a lot of ways, but there are a lot of similarities as well.

  275. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    There are at least a couple of “good” things, here: no religious underpinnings of any sort, and no kids.

    Oh thank mythical christ.

    Update: my candidate got trounced, as did many local Democrats. The national upswing in Democratic power was a bit of a solace, but it was still very sad for many of us. We are going to work to try to keep the momentum going with the organization and the connections we built through the campaign.

    If it helps, at least we got Lungren out of congress. My little brother was more or less the keystone of the get-out-the-vote effort that accomplished that, too.

    (Damnit, everyone’s kicking ass and I’m just sitting here integrating. >.> )

  276. says

    My wife is out shopping for a coat, something neither of us own at the moment. Who would have thought that New Mexico would be so much colder than Virginia?

  277. says

    Azkyroth,

    Did I mention “Fuck Richmond”? This place has been a disaster for me and my wife from pretty much the first day, and has only gotten worse over time.

  278. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Tony
    *hugs* I hope things will improve for you, and soon.

    carlie
    I’ve never read anything of hers before, but that quote makes me want to!

    Improbable Joe
    Wow! You got a lot done in a pretty short amount of time!

    cicely
    I’m sorry to hear that. *hugs* for you and your son.

    SallyStrange
    I’ve written to all of my current Critters and all my former ones from PA. I’ve also been working to educate folks on why austerity is such a bad, bad idea. I don’t know if I’m making a difference on that front (lots of Fox News propaganda to overcome) but I’m trying.

    Azkyroth
    I can’t see why you shouldn’t relate. We’re all under intense pressure to perform, to keep up the charade of perfection. The particular struggles and the type of pressure we face might be different, but none of us are supposed to let others know we’re scared, struggling, frustrated, different.

  279. says

    Socio-gen,

    I’ve been nibbling at the edge of packing for weeks… so when it came time to DO, it turns out I had already done more than I realized. For instance, it looks for all the world like my bedroom needs a lot of work, but really once I pick up everything off the floor and pack the clothes into the wardrobe box, all that’s left is taking apart the bed and vacuuming. That’s MAYBE 30 minutes to an hour for the whole process. My office and the living room are the big projects, just because of all the electronics.

    Speaking of which, I’m still struggling with what to do with the guitar amplifier. It is 21 years old, and I worry about it making the trip in a cargo trailer OR in the trunk of my car, and a suitable flight case costs more than I paid for the amp. Fill the trunk of my car with bubble wrap?

  280. John Morales says

    Improbable Joe:

    Speaking of which, I’m still struggling with what to do with the guitar amplifier.

    First-world problems, eh?

  281. says

    I’ve written to all of my current Critters and all my former ones from PA. I’ve also been working to educate folks on why austerity is such a bad, bad idea. I don’t know if I’m making a difference on that front (lots of Fox News propaganda to overcome) but I’m trying.

    Fantastic! I’m trying to get my family to sign anti-austerity postcards to send to Congress.

    Sad news for Congress, and me: Maurice Hinchey, a really awesome Democratic Representative, is retiring. His successor is one of the folks who lost in my region, although by a very slim margin, in contrast to the guy I was working for. Hinchey is fighting colon cancer. I used to hear him on the radio even when I was living in VT; he is a very vocal advocate for environmental protection and economic equality. The new Republican Representative, Richard Hanna, is definitely not.

    Question to Pharyngulites: any resources on hydraulic fracturing? The question of fracking is very divisive around here. People are balancing the question of jobs vs. environmental damage. Jobs are scarce in upstate NY, so it’s hard to get people to consider the long-term risks of drilling deep into the ground and explosively injecting a mix of water and secret chemicals. As an environmental scientist, I doubt their claims that underground sequestration of waste could possibly be “permanent,” but there is also a lot of woo making the rounds on the anti-fracking side of things, as is typical when you have lefty hippie types engaging in political activism.

  282. says

    Sally, have you done a search on the bigger liberal blog site like Daily Kos and FireDogLake? I’m pretty sure one or both sites have active bloggers who are focused specifically on fracking and will have a shit-ton of links to the sort of stuff you need.

  283. chigau (無) says

    Joe

    My wife is out shopping for a coat, something neither of us own at the moment.

    I know we all live in different places…
    but this stuns me.
    It’s only -8°C (about 14°F) here.
    I wouldn’t put on a coat to go to the alley with the garbage but to not own a coat.
    wow

  284. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    SallyStrange:
    What’s the point of this?

    Perspective.

    Here’s some: being annoyed by other first-worlders taking their problems too seriously, when you’re not even involved, is the ULTIMATE “First World Problem.”

  285. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Also, Joe: beyond the altitude, it’s much less humid, which means the specific heat of the air is appreciably lower, among other things, so it’ll cool off faster and further once the sun goes down.

  286. says

    Come on Nerd, don’t trouble me with facts. It has “Mexico” in the name, so it is supposed to be hot!

    Actually, I’m also surprised that Virginia is as warm as it is, truth be told. I have no clue what temperature any place is supposed to be, and my gut is a terrible guide!

  287. John Morales says

    Azkyroth, being annoyed may be, yes, but what about seeking to be helpful? ;)

    (I don’t consider that a problem)

    Also, I’d not be involved had that been in a private communication.

    (What is your involvement?)

  288. says

    Folks, please don’t engage with that person on my behalf. I’m not sure what game he thinks he’s playing, but I would appreciate no one participating in it when something I’ve said is the jumping-off point.

  289. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    John, meta: uninvited lectures about “perspective” and the like are almost universally perceived as condescending, and by nature what is condescending is not helpful.

    Or, to put it another way, being helpful is like being an ally: you have to actually listen.

  290. says

    Azkyroth,

    Yeah, I think I realized about the nighttime temps, because I spent a summer in the Mojave desert. I had zero clue about the altitude though. Apparently there are… mountains? I never actually took a geography class and have never had a real interest. :)

  291. John Morales says

    Azkyroth:

    John, meta: uninvited lectures about “perspective” and the like are almost universally perceived as condescending

    Perhaps, but the issue at hand is a one-word response to a question, not an uninvited lecture.

    Or, to put it another way, being helpful is like being an ally: you have to actually listen.

    Hasty generalisation: you’re denying the possibility of unintended helpfulness no less than that of counter-intentional helpfulness or that of oblivious helpfulness.

    (Tsk)

  292. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Improbable Joe
    That’s great. It’s always nice to realize more has been done than appears! Hopefully this gives you a little room to relax instead of the frantic “FUCK it’s 5:30pm and I was supposed to leave yesterday” feeling — which I am all too familiar with. Let’s just say, I make procrastination into an art form….

    SallyStrange
    Whoa! You must be near my old neck of the woods! (Bradford County PA) Hinchey was well-liked by a lot of friends on both sides of the border for sponsoring the FRAC Act.

    On fracking…ugh! I don’t have any really neutral sources for environmental impacts of the fracking process — part of that is the difficulty obtaining info from the industry that would allow scientists to actually assess the potential for harm. And I’m not all at neutral on the negative impacts on quality of life in my (former) county. Short version: It sucks, it’s horrible.

  293. says

    Socio-gen,

    I have had a recent example of what happens in this neighborhood if you’re not out when you’re supposed to be out: they fling your shit into the alley. They don’t even bag or box it up, they just grab armfuls and throw it. Someone in the duplex next to this house got evicted last month, and some of their shit wound up IN A TREE.

    When they say “you were supposed to leave yesterday” they come with a couple of cops and change the locks.

  294. Rey Fox says

    Hugs to Cicely and Tony.

    Yeah, New Mexico sits atop the continental divide. A fun trivia question to trip people up with is to ask what state capital is the highest in elevation. It ain’t Denver, folks. Santa Fe is a good 2,000 feet higher.

  295. Socio-gen, something something... says

    Joe:
    I’ve never had that happen, luckily — the deadlines were always self-imposed ones, usually two or three days ahead of the real move-out date. I know I’m going to procrastinate and end up tossing things like crazy, but I don’t want to be playing beat-the-clock for real and risk losing any of my stuff.

  296. says

    Socio-gen,

    I’m having a trailer parked outside my house on the 29th, movers coming on the 30th, and have to be out by the 1st. It is sort of close timing, but because I didn’t know when I would have a house to move to, I put the move off to the last possible minute. I’m trying really hard to prevent having to spend $400 on storage on the other end of the move. I’ve done worse moves, and I’ve been forced to abandon stuff. By comparison, this should go relatively smoothly.

  297. John Morales says

    Ing, what have I written that is incorrect?

    (Isn’t that a first-world problem?)

    You’re not being helpful you’re being annoying.

    But I didn’t claim I was being helpful, did I? :)

    (Also, one can lead a horse to water, but…)

    And unless we’re all playing some bullshit game, it’s almost certainly intentionally so.

    Let me guess, you’re trying to be helpful, not annoying. ;)

  298. says

    Whoa! You must be near my old neck of the woods! (Bradford County PA) Hinchey was well-liked by a lot of friends on both sides of the border for sponsoring the FRAC Act.

    Yup, totally! I’m just over an hour’s drive from Scranton, the hometown of our favorite “atheist leader,” Justin Vacula.

    I did not realize how elevated New Mexico was, but now, thinking about it, it makes sense.

    I know there are good resources on fracking out there, I know of some, I was just casting a wide net to see if there’s anything I missed. Now the election is over, I want to start blogging again and I intend to write on the subject.

    John, you continually insist that you have respect and perhaps even affection for the people who post here, but you are hardly ever able to demonstrate this. I take you at your word that you don’t MEAN ill, but it puzzles me that, even after all these years, you somehow manage to communicate ill intent without intending to.

  299. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Come on Nerd, don’t trouble me with facts. It has “Mexico” in the name, so it is supposed to be hot!

    Ah, reminds of a trip to California when I was younger (almost 50 years ago, give or take). It was over 100 degrees in the Central Valley. By the time we got up Lassen National Park with a lake, it was in the 40’s. A quick lesson in temperature drop with altitude.

  300. says

    Ah, reminds of a trip to California when I was younger (almost 50 years ago, give or take). It was over 100 degrees in the Central Valley. By the time we got up Lassen National Park with a lake, it was in the 40′s. A quick lesson in temperature drop with altitude.

    Reminds ME of my summer in the Mojave, sleeping in tents with a couple of dozen of my closest friends. We saw temps in the high 130s some days, and people kept saying “but at least it is a dry heat!”… and then there was a morning where the temperature was in the low 60s and we were FREEZING. Someone said “Holy shit it is cold” from inside his sleeping bag, and immediately someone else shouted out “Yeah? But at least it is a dry cold!”

  301. carlie says

    John,
    It’s rude particularly because the person you’re chastising has been in serious financial trouble over the last few months and you know it, so trying to remind him how great he has it now that he’s trying to pack the things he has left after selling off the rest is a very pointed kind of rude.

  302. thunk, cold air advection says

    Joe:

    high 130s

    As the resident weather geek, let it be made clear there is no reliable temperature record higher than 129 F.

    However, it’s still damn hot where you were. Saunas are dry, but they’re still quite hot.

  303. says

    thunk,

    To be fair, the temps were coming from some sort of weird Marine Corps field thermometer, so who knows how accurate/inaccurate those things are? Also, the guy reading it was usually that creepy Navy corpsman who spent a little too much time in the showers, if you know what I mean.

  304. says

    Ing,

    JM

    Here’s helpful advice, go fuck yourself

    This is why I asked people to not engage. Now I’m involved with you crossing the line that the other person has been tiptoeing around all night.

  305. says

    Ing,

    I know you don’t give a shit about me, but I’m not sure what possible good you’re doing since you keep doing it and nothing changes.

    And that’s all I’m going to say about that. :)

  306. says

    @Joe

    It’s not that I don’t give a shit about you, don’t be fair.

    I know you don’t give a shit about me, but I’m not sure what possible good you’re doing since you keep doing it and nothing changes.

    And that’s all I’m going to say about that. :)

    I’ll make the effort to conform to the standards and adopt passive aggressiveness rather than out right confrontation then.

    God bless

  307. says

    Ing,

    Seriously, I see that it doesn’t have anything to do with me at all, either way. You’re sick of a fucking troll regularly passive-aggressively trolling the Lounge. But short of someone with some actual pull around here recognizing and acting on the very clear goddamned pattern, I don’t see what good it does to give the troll any attention at all. Especially not the kind where YOU are saying things that could be acted on.

  308. says

    Seriously, I see that it doesn’t have anything to do with me at all, either way. You’re sick of a fucking troll regularly passive-aggressively trolling the Lounge. But short of someone with some actual pull around here recognizing and acting on the very clear goddamned pattern, I don’t see what good it does to give the troll any attention at all. Especially not the kind where YOU are saying things that could be acted on.

    It makes me sad that this is, in fact, good advice.

  309. carlie says

    HEY LOOK, A DISTRACTION.

    Richard Dawkins apparently said in an interview that children being taught about hell is worse than children being raped. I didn’t see that, but here is a tweet where he reasserts it. Can he please keep his damned mouth shut on anything not directly related to academic atheism? He’s really fucking it up for the rest of us.

  310. says

    carlie… Richard Dawkins is a ridiculously wealthy highly educated white man from a ridiculously wealthy highly educated family, and everything he says and does goes through that incredibly privileged filter.

  311. says

    Egad, can someone contact Atheist Central and tell them to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop using rape as their referent for “really really bad”?

    Yes, fucking please. There are certain words and phrases that need to be saved and only used to describe the one thing that they actually mean. “Rape” is at the very top of that list.

  312. says

    Sort of related to Dawkins but is anyone one else finding themselves like really really REALLY bored with Atheist stuff?

    No moreso now than I have been for a great deal of time. But that’s been a while, generally.

  313. says

    Then again, maybe I’m not as much as I think, and just usually shut up about them because they don’t matter as much to me. Still amused by the precise workings of plenty of fool believers though. Currently amusing myself with a Pokemon PbP and a silly Singulitarian.

  314. says

    Sort of related to Dawkins but is anyone one else finding themselves like really really REALLY bored with Atheist stuff?

    Yeah, and I find the tone off-putting. On the other hand, I remind myself that I’m a life-long atheist, and even I was excited the first time I saw “Atheist stuff” and how much more excited someone must be to be seeing that stuff for the first time.

  315. says

    Ing,

    Maybe the problem is that it isn’t that some people are just talking to the same level of audience, it is that their understanding of the subject hasn’t grown with their audience? For instance, Sam Harris might have been cutting-edge Gnu Atheism 5-6 years ago… and now he seems like an ignorant clod who isn’t making very good arguments past the basic ones that every atheist gets at the start of their exploration of the underlying ideas.

  316. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    *facepalm*

    A person can leave behind the teaching of a concept of hell. A person cannot be unraped.

    For a smart person and some one who does not lack compassion, Richard Dawkins can say some incredibly stupid shit.

  317. says

    Sort of related to Dawkins but is anyone one else finding themselves like really really REALLY bored with Atheist stuff?

    No moreso now than I have been for a great deal of time. But that’s been a while, generally.

    I was pretty excited about atheist stuff, oh, about 5 – 6 years ago. I got REALLY bored with it about 2 years ago.

  318. ednaz says

    Cicely – I am so sorry for your pain. Sending *hugs* and wishing there was something I could do. It’s so hard when our children are grown and we can no longer hug and kiss their hurts away. : (

  319. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Ok no one pelt me with peas, but I just read a highly entertaining review of the final Twilight movie.

    ***pauses***
    I can’t do links on my phone, but seriously, go check out Masala’s review over at SKEPCHIC. She made twilight more entertaining in one sarcastic review than all the shitty movies combined. It’s from November 20.
    It also made me think about something. Twilight lovers don’t see any of the subtext in the movies. They also seem to tune out the creepy actions of the characters. They have a romanticized vision of the characters. They see all the good and none of the bad.
    Just like many religious believers.
    I wonder if there’s a link between believers and those who enjoy Twilight…

  320. says

    Hugs to cicely. And Joe, get back to your packing!

    Man, if anyone had first world problems, it was me yesterday. Not looking forward to having fun at work? A friend cancelled a brunch date? Oh noes, the horror! It’s JUST LIKE BEING RA…. oops, dodged that bullet there. THE HOLOmphpmph oops. LYNgrarrrgghhh urgghh

    Hey why is my common sense and empathy interfering with my typing?

  321. says

    Jeez Alethea, if I pack at the pace you folks demand, I’ll be packing the neighbors’ crap by Wednesday… which would be double-bad for them since it is all rent-to-own stuff that they have to pay triple the value for, even if I steal most of it.

  322. chigau (無) says

    I ♥ the interwebs!
    I’m watching sumo live, including the injunctions to not throw your cushions and to take your garbage away with you.

  323. cicely says

    ednaz: I have, at least, the good fortune that Son lives in the same city as I do; at least we can offer him hugs and a place to go, when he needs a break from the stressfulness of being in their house. It also (at this point) looks as if they may manage to keep it amicable. (Oh, I so hope they can keep it amicable!) So, it could be so very worse. It’s just that there’s no switch to turn off caring about DiL, or what’ll become of her once it’s all over.
    :(
    -

  324. chigau (無) says

    Joe
    I have ♥ed sumo since I first saw it in 1988.
    I am indifferent to most sports* but I love sumo.
    If you want to take a look
    http://www.sumo.or.jp/eng/
    click ‘goo sumo’
    (leftmost on the grey bar)
    click the live stream option

    * I think sumo may be a religion or at least a cult.

  325. Nutmeg says

    BTW, Tony, thanks for the long-ago tip that Season 1 of Buffy kind of sucks. I tried a couple of episodes and didn’t enjoy it. But since you said that season 2 is a big improvement, I skipped to it, and it’s a lot of fun. Especially since most of my outdoor hobbies have wrapped up for the winter and I’m a little bored in the evenings.

  326. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Richard Dawkins apparently said in an interview that children being taught about hell is worse than children being raped. I didn’t see that, but here is a tweet where he reasserts it. Can he please keep his damned mouth shut on anything not directly related to academic atheism? He’s really fucking it up for the rest of us.

    I seem to recall him having known at least one person who opined that her experience of being threatened with hell as a child was more traumatic than being molested. Which I find credible; I’ve known a couple other people who felt that molestation wasn’t anywhere near the worst thing that happened to them. He really shouldn’t be generalizing from that… >.>

  327. says

    chigau,

    Sumo is… sumo? I mean, I’ve watched it on ESPN 8: The Ocho and whatever. It is much less dumb than the miniature golf they used to show on TV when I was a kid, right before “Combat!” on Sundays. And I’m sure people get obsessed with it, since it is a one-on-one gladiator-style thingy.

  328. says

    Azkyroth,

    I seem to recall him having known at least one person who opined that her experience of being threatened with hell as a child was more traumatic than being molested. Which I find credible; I’ve known a couple other people who felt that molestation wasn’t anywhere near the worst thing that happened to them. He really shouldn’t be generalizing from that… >.>

    Certainly, Dawkins needs to keep any points he wants to make concerning rape off of Twitter. So do most people, come to think of it. No one should generalize about rape off the cuff, or mostly ever.

  329. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Nutmeg:
    Cool. Glad you enjoyed S2.
    I highly recommend S3. Ah, shit. I can’t really tell you why its good without spoiling anything, but I feel its the best of the seven seasons.

  330. chigau (無) says

    Oh, Joe.
    re sumo
    ohmy
    If you watch it DO NOT watch it from any American provider.
    go to the Nihon Sumo Kyokai page
    and if you’re interested, the book The Joy of Sumo (even though published in 1991) is still available.
    It is brilliant.

  331. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    (…as a point of clarification: this person had experienced both being molested, and being threatened with hell, and stated that she felt the latter was more traumatic.)

  332. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Joe:
    One of the problems with regard to many discussions of rape, IMHO, is that a great many people (predominately men) don’t understand what rape entails. They likely don’t have a full understanding of the value of bodily integrity either.

  333. Rey Fox says

    let it be made clear there is no reliable temperature record higher than 129 F.

    Tell that to all the people I’ve heard from who talk about places like Iraq and say that it gets up to 140 degrees every day.

  334. says

    I seem to recall him having known at least one person who opined that her experience of being threatened with hell as a child was more traumatic than being molested. Which I find credible; I’ve known a couple other people who felt that molestation wasn’t anywhere near the worst thing that happened to them. He really shouldn’t be generalizing from that…

    This was part of it. He also mentions he was himself fondled, and that it was unpleasant, but he doesn’t think he suffered any lasting damage, and could well imagine how the fear of hellfire could have been worse.

    Whole of it is here. Generally, yes, he does pretty directly say that fear of hellfire could be worse than some molestation, and anyway, could easily be pretty awful, and why don’t we talk about that more?

    … on which, yeah, I dunno. I guess if he was set off by this woman coming to him and saying as much, I get how he got there, at least.

    I don’t know quite where to go with that comparison, myself, honestly. I’ve never been raped or molested, and I don’t know that much about that trauma even academically. Best I can say is: I know people who’ve been raped, I know people who’ve been molested, (but, seriously, then, whoinhell doesn’t?), and generally, it seems to have been a pretty damned big deal to them…

    Rather different deal, really, too, from what I think I’d call the worst of what religions tend to do. And this is the thing: it does sound pretty apples and oranges to me, at the very least. The hellfire thing, the rape thing.

    All that said, however, and more my point, here: the hellfire stuff sure has hell can mess people up pretty bad. More generally, religions quite regularly do, and in an awful lot of ways beside that one…

    And, y’know, this is one of the places people are likely to come, looking for community, when that happens. So, no, you’re not going to catch me ever writing I don’t care about that, nor even so much write I don’t care about ‘atheism’ anymore, lest anyone get the idea that’s the implication. Even if someone talking too far beyond his expertise did wind up downplaying an experience that regularly does leave horrifyingly deep scars.

    It wouldn’t, for that matter, ever even occur to me. Because I very much still do care. For what that’s worth.

  335. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Thanks to Roger Ebert I now see some pretty racist undercurrents in Twilight. Jacob is a Native American who transforms into a savage beast, while Edward is the ‘gentle’ REALLY white man who protects Bella. Gah. Stephanie Meyer’s horrid Mormon views infested the entire series.

  336. thunk, cold air advection says

    Rey Fox:

    Tell that to all the people I’ve heard from who talk about places like Iraq and say that it gets up to 140 degrees every day.

    All right, as long as it’s air temperature in the shade. To do otherwise is comparing apples and oranges.

    That said, earth skin temperatures in Iran’s Lut Desert have reached into the 170s, so it’s not beyond credibility. I’m still skeptical.

  337. thunk, cold air advection says

    That said, earth skin temperatures in Iran’s Lut Desert have reached into the 170s

    Actually, about 70 C, or 160 F. Still much hotter than the official records.

  338. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    katenrala, http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/23/i-really-hope-none-of-you-went-to-walmart-today/comment-page-1/#comment-497198 is darkly depressed. Any sympathy available?

    Sumo? I accidentally acquired a Japanese bathrobe with sumo wrestlers on it (the one I tried on was brown, with mountains on it, and I grabbed a blue package off the shelf, okay?). I feel a bit odd prancing about in only a robe with nearly-naked fat men on it, but it is comfy.

    Azkyroth, I am in the same situation, and perhaps the same position.

  339. says

    I live in a big big house now–I’m kinda house- and dog-sitting. I’m paying $350 per month but the landlord is taking care of all utilities. Anyway, I’m getting a roommate and she came over last week to drop some stuff off, and then she was going out with her friend to watch Twilight. I was like, “Oh, you’re going to see the Mormon abstinence porn?” They were like, oh haha, and I was like, “No really, it’s super Mormon, especially the bit with the gracious and civilized white good guys and the deluded and dangerous brown bad guys.”

    They seemed like such nice girls. I sincerely hope I ruined the movie for them. Such toxic bullshit should not be allowed to infest the minds of our young people unimpeded.

  340. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Menyambal:
    Sympathies and support given. My god xie sounds like xie’s is in a bad place.

  341. ednaz says

    cicely –

    I have, at least, the good fortune that Son lives in the same city as I do; at least we can offer him hugs and a place to go, when he needs a break from the stressfulness of being in their house.

    This is good. (Probably helps your heart a little.)

    If you ever need to, you can talk to me about it. I have some experience with this.

    I will hope for the best and I offer you my ear.
    <3

  342. says

    PBP = Play by Post. Play a roleplaying game on the internet, using a forum instead of an instant messenger service of some sort. There’s a pokemon tabletop RPG, so I’m using that. I actually considered inviting you, Ing, because I know you both RP and like pokemon, but the game is exceedingly system heavy and I also remember you not liking that, and while I’m not the biggest fan of heavy system, I don’t gut it out as much as you (which is cool and all, it clearly works for your group). Also everyone I know has a habit of hating each other, so there’s that.

    Ok no one pelt me with peas, but I just read a highly entertaining review of the final Twilight movie.

    Why would that be bad? I think a lot of people here read Stoney’s amazingly hilarious rendition of SPARKLES: A VAMPIRE MORMON TALE, or however i’ts called.

    Thanks to Roger Ebert I now see some pretty racist undercurrents in Twilight. Jacob is a Native American who transforms into a savage beast, while Edward is the ‘gentle’ REALLY white man who protects Bella. Gah. Stephanie Meyer’s horrid Mormon views infested the entire series.

    It actually gets worse. I’m now obligated:
    http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html?format=light
    Sparkledammerung, that was it.

  343. says

    Azkyroth:

    I seem to recall him having known at least one person who opined that her experience of being threatened with hell as a child was more traumatic than being molested. Which I find credible; I’ve known a couple other people who felt that molestation wasn’t anywhere near the worst thing that happened to them. He really shouldn’t be generalizing from that… >.>

    Credible or not, I have serious problems with that. First, the term molest covers a lot of territory and really doesn’t provide any clue as to the nature of the molestation.

    I had the threat of hell pounded into me to a point that it was, by far, the most difficult aspect of religion to rid myself of, fear of it lingered well into my adult life. I was also raped on a regular basis for six years of my life, from ages three to six.

    While the threat and fear of hell was what I’d describe as abusive, it did not shatter my personality nor gift me with PTSD.

    Given Dawkins’s attitudes about sexism in general, I don’t think he has any business whatsoever speaking about any type of sexual abuse. This is a subject which he should have the sense to shut the fuck up about – he is most seriously not helping.

  344. says

    Before I click that link…on a scale of one to ten, how bad?

    The link? The link itself is a thing of beauty and wonder that increases net joy in the universe, though it may be stale if you’ve read a bunch of twilight skewerings that were actually good.

    The racism in Twilight? On a scale of 1 to whatever, ‘a lot’.

  345. ednaz says

    Joe –
    I’m fall cleaning (winter cleaning?) so when we are able to move there will be less to do. Also trying to sell, give away or throw away what I can for the same reason.
    Your moving updates are encouraging so keep up the good work. : )
    Need to apply at a couple places next week, so send me any courage you can spare. : )

  346. rq says

    Good morning!

    +++

    Azkyroth
    Please, please don’t feel like you shouldn’t relate, because if you do and have a perspective, please share! It can only broaden all our perspectives, right?

    chigau
    I’m with you on the ‘not owning a coat’ bit… Wow?
    And yes, please go post on Ogvorbis’ dormant blog. I’m getting worried, and I’m new here, so I imagine some of you regulars would be even more so.

    Improbable Joe
    Oh boy, did I do some packing for you! Too bad it was in my sleep.
    And yes, trunk FULL of bubble wrap. :) It’ll be fun.

  347. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Rutee:
    I love the link. I haven’t read any Twilight reviews before today.
    Back at Skepchick, I’m reading Masala’s review of last years Mormon inspired crapfest. Once again I see the racism displayed wrt Jacobs people. Now its worse. The barbaric, uncivilized savage Native Americans (sorry, werewolves), want to kill Bella’s fetus. The civilized family loving WHITE Cullen family want to protect the fetus. Gosh, what insulting parallels are they making there?
    Really, did no one involved in these movies have any objections to this material? I want to puke.

  348. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    That reminds me:

    Can anyone recommend any works that portray Native American characters, or other “native-as-seen-from-Western-perspective” characters, in three-dimensional, flawed-person (not the sub-usual noble-savage crap) but ultimately positive and respectful depictions?

    It’d be handy to have those kinds of references available maybe? I dunno.

  349. rq says

    re: Twilight movies

    The people to whom I’ve tried to explain the nastiness in the Twilight books (and movies) usually come back with the ‘Yeah but it’s fiction and I’m allowed to fantasize’ response. Never mind all the stereotypes and bad relationship models they’re flooding back into popularity (back?), and reaffirming that they’re ok because they’re popular.
    Trying to explain things like the patriarchy and subconscious reaffirmation and all that stuff usually just ends with ‘You don’t want me to have any fun’.
    I had a similar conversation with my sister yesterday about 50 Shades. And I admit, I struggled through the Twilight series, but I refuse to touch 50 Shades with a pole of any length.
    How do people block these things out???

  350. says

    That reminds me:

    Can anyone recommend any works that portray Native American characters, or other “native-as-seen-from-Western-perspective” characters, in three-dimensional, flawed-person (not the sub-usual noble-savage crap) but ultimately positive and respectful depictions?

    It’d be handy to have those kinds of references available maybe? I dunno.

    There honestly is so much crap out there on the topic due to poor scholarship and out right con artistry that I am really reluctant to even share anything I read before I can go back and vet it

    Also you know technically “Native American” characters is kinda wrong in of itself. It covers two continents worth of cultures

  351. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    How do people block these things out???

    Where did you think the expression “blockhead” came from?