Episode CCLXVI: The Pharyngula bump?
Recently, that goofy guru Deepak Chopra thanked me on Twitter for helping his book, whatever it was, become a NYT bestseller. It would be nice to imagine that I have some fraction of the power of Colbert or Oprah, but I think he was indulging in some wishful thinking. So what else is new?
Anyway, just because I can, here’s a short video of a young woman asking Chopra a straightforward question…which he is unable to answer. His mouth moves, his lips flap, his tongue wiggles, but no sense comes out. Again…so what else is new?
changeable moniker:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:08 am
I had a vague feeling a new thread was in the offing …
Glen Davidson:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:12 am
Oh yeah, the moment you can’t say why your bullshit is gold, and the other guy’s deserves flushing, blather about subjectivity vs. objectivity. In the dullest and most meaningless philosophical sense he’s more or less right, other than the stupidity about science retreating back to his level of sophistic and fuzzy thinking, but who cares?
OK, Deepak, we’ll accept that you have nothing more than feelings and blithering to offer.
Glen Davidson
DemetriusOfPharos:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:14 am
@Sili (689, previous thread):
Shit… I didn’t mean to jinx you. So far I haven’t been much of an ass – well, not more than usual. According to some, it’s part of my charm. I did, however, get passed-out-drunk three nights in a row – something that I’ve never done before. The two events aren’t entirely unrelated.
Therrin:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:14 am
Sally Strange, got any grapes?
(Earworm warning.)
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:15 am
FYI this beer is fantastic.
Palo Santo Marron
So incredibly tasty. One of Dogfish Head’s best.
Watching Frontline about the father wrongly convicted of burning his children to death in Texas that Rick Perry ignored the evidence of his innocence.
He was sentenced to death and killed as most likely an innocent man.
Esteleth:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:15 am
Woohoo! New thread! :D :D
I have no particular desire to talk about Chopralites (or as a friend of mine accidentally tweeted, Coprolites).
Yesterday I was mostly not-around. It was an exciting day! I came into work to find my desk covered with bananas. It seems that a joke of some sort had gone down Friday night at Happy Hour, which led to several people bringing bananas to work to leave on someone else’s desk (someone who was in on this joke). Said someone decided that 15 bananas was too many, so moved them to my desk.
Why me? No idea.
So I took them home and made banana bread. The recipe is one that I modified from the one in <i<JoC and it came out well.
I went to the bookstore and bought Snuff. Finished it in about 2 hours. Me like.
Lion IRC:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:16 am
Dont sell yourself short.
Counter-apologists, Gnu Atheists, Horse men, hoarse men, et al can take a LOT of credit for the resurgence in God chatter.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:18 am
I watched that entire “debate.”
My main conclusion was that Deepak Chopra is an arrogant douchebag whose main rhetorical strategies are 1. obfuscate and 2. talk over people.
I had no idea the duck story was, like, a thing. Learn something new every day, I guess.
Stupid fuck. Errr, duck.
Esteleth:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:18 am
Bah, I fail at html. JoC should be in italics.
In other news, my thesis came back from my advisors with approval to send it to the committee. 21,567 words. Woohoo!
PZ Myers:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:19 am
Oh, crap. Lion IRC? We don’t need another godbot here. Go away.
Aquaria:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:21 am
My thoughts exactly, PZ.
Go away Lionfuckface, you smug, dishonest douchebag. You’re too stupid to be around people with brains and sanity.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:22 am
Sally:
Did you see that the “doctor” showed up in the MRA/creationist thread, claiming to not get MRAs at all, oh no?
PZ, Lion IRC has been infesting threads for a while.
Maki:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:24 am
Young woman with the killer question is Sara Mayhew, comic artist and skeptic :)
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:25 am
Sili, I’d buy you a drink if I could. I would guess if there’s a corner in the saloon for those of us with regretted missed/botched potential romantic opportunities, we’d all be smashed into it around the same table (and probably draining the absinthe bottles by the case). It really sucks, though, and I’m sorry you’re stuck in it right now.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:33 am
Not caught up yet, but I just want to say that I have now seen an up-side to this whole Iraq debacle. Because without Gulf War I & II, my so ever-so-charming urologist would still be living in Iraq, instead of emigrating to Australia. I mean, what’s a few hundred thousand deaths compared to me having an enjoyable, if fleeting, professional encounter with a cute guy? We had a nice chat about Turkey, too – his wife’s Turkish; I travelled there in May.
(Do I need to say that’s a joke and I would be a really horrendous person if I actually meant it? And why am I feeling paranoid about this?)
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:34 am
Same dude, really? No, it escaped my notice. I was too busy trying to nail his slimy ass down in the “Secwet” thread.
victorwilson:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:41 am
Sweet Jeebus cannibal cracker coma! Any valid science of consciousness will have to consider the subject-object split? Let’s not get carried away here!
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:41 am
We have a live one here, if anyone wants to come and play.
San Ban:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:42 am
Poor Deepak is making the terrible mistake that so many undergrads do – he thinks that because the words are all found in the dictionary and all arranged in grammatical sequences that the utterance actually means something! He’s wrong, of course.
victorwilson:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:44 am
For science I think it’s perhaps even more relevant to focus on the phenomenon of spiritual poopsicles miraculously emanating from Chopra’s oral edifices…
Sara E.Mayhew:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:47 am
My favourite part of the video is when I’m shaking my head and rolling my eyes in the background!
-young woman
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:53 am
Chopra once offered to have me work with him, I turned him down because he’s a tendentious twit.
I did work with a conservative Christian once, fellow by the name of E. Gary Gygax. A conservative Christian, yes, but no tendentious twit. :)
Amphiox, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:53 am
Oh, they mean something, alright.
They mean that Chopra is a liar and an idiot.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:53 am
Yeah Sara!
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:54 am
Kwok? Is that you?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:54 am
Sally:
Yep.
Dr. R:
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:56 am
#21, Sara
You can draw hands! (You wouldn’t believe how hard some people find drawing hands. :)
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:57 am
DemetriusOfPharos says:
No jinxing occurred.
I blame my cold for getting drunk, but I may well be lying to myself. (I’ve been a good boy tonight, though.)
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:01 am
Plaisir d’Amour an’ all tha’.
Thanks.
les autres animals:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:05 am
Caine 12
Really? It gives you a kind of thrill to be PZ’s little class monitor? No job IRL?
Get over yourself, you ridiculous attention whore.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:07 am
Oh, fuck off, you useless piece of shit. PZ can’t be everywhere at once, people who happen to be around tell him stuff. Get over it. Christ.
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:07 am
The. Hell?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:09 am
laa:
I would, Sugar, but you won’t get off the cross.
Jim1138:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:11 am
Isn’t there a computer program that spits stuff out like this? Was Deepak reading from a teleprompter by chance?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:11 am
I loves me some… mascul…dom. Maybe I ought to give up and go to bed.
—
Speaking of which I only slept three hours last night and I ate barely anything til five! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:12 am
Irony meter meltdown imminent.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:13 am
Leaving aside the pointless trolling, can we please stop using “whore” (and variants thereof) as an insult? It’s sexist terminology, and contributing to the shaming and marginalization of sex workers is really, really not a good thing.
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:15 am
Sigh…its whack a troll night on TET.
Stupid pompous trolls are why we can’t have anything nice.
Yes, Im looking at you lion and the idiot animal author.
les autres animals:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:17 am
Caine 33
What a shit insult. I’d probably have gone for something more forceful, like demanding that I force a porcupine up my ass. You know, the kind of violent sexual demands which thrive here in this place of protection from…errr…never mind.
Anyway, here’s my response: Caine, go push a pineapple up your pipe.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:18 am
Get lost, oblivious slime. No one gives a millifuck what you have to say.
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:19 am
Are you sure you’re not me?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:20 am
laa:
Yes, yes. Get it out of your system, tiny cupcake. *yawns*
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:22 am
Pandagon did a post on Sonic Youth and Anita Hill today.
Have I mentioned that Pandagon is awesome? Also, I’m annoyed that I didn’t listen to Sonic Youth when I was young and they were COOL.
When I was a teenager, I’d pretty much only ever listened to New England style folk music (fiddles, pianos, Irish-style jigs and reels)(thanks a lot, mom and dad) and the occasional bit of mainstream classic rock or pop music. The Red Hot Chili Peppers seemed terribly subversive to me, and Sonic Youth was… well. CRAZY STUFF! Definitely beyond the pale for my vanilla ass.
Oh well, it’s never too late…
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:23 am
Good news on the Alfie front – syringing him baby food (Sweet potato tonight) is working wonders. He’s getting his strength back. *Phew*
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:23 am
I am absolutely certain BECAUSE no femdom no.
Other than that, I would not be sure. Are you sure you’re not me?
les autres animals:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:24 am
Classical Cipher 40
Not even when I point out that the whole anti-sexual-violence schtick comes undone when the standard response to undesirables is “shove a porcupine up your ass”? This is the internet, douchebag; how do you know whether or not the object of your insults (despite their stated views) has suffered sexual assault and may be insulted/sickened/frightened by your choice of “hilarious” in-joke way of saying “fuck off”.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:26 am
Awwww. Someone’s got a grudge.
It’s cute.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:28 am
Whining idiot, do you understand what sexual violence is?
Here’s a hint: you can’t do it to yourself.
Imbecile.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:28 am
Such an idiot. The anti-violence isn’t undone at all, Sugarbrain.
No one is told to shove a porcupine up their ass. People are offered a decaying porcupine, with instructions for appropriate usage. It’s not as though a delegation turns up on your doorstep to see that you follow through.
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:29 am
Dead porcupines are too good for such a poor troll as laa.
Hmm, come to think of it Laa does sound like the other idiot known as SS/PaulG. Sockpuppets are so boring.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:30 am
Rev. BDC:
It is, ennit? Especially adorable when they are such a lackwit.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:31 am
Killfile is getting a workout today!
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:35 am
Caine
Hooray! That is good news.
The spine is pretty damn cool too.
Now, could someone pass me the absinthe please? I’ve always wanted to try it and maybe trolls turn into magical fun pixies if you drink enough of it.
Azkyroth:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:38 am
Deepak Chopra has a “Pharyngula Bump?”
Has he been craving pickles and calamari, too? :P
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 2:40 am
I remember someone taking this exact same tack, almost word for word, when I explored the slimepit. I just can’t remember the nick.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:41 am
zing
jose:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Is this guy some sort of mystic? I know there are people who distinguish direct experience and introspection from science. For example, I know what I was thinking 5 seconds ago, and science will never discover that. I didn’t use the scientific method to discover what I was thinking, I just knew it because I’m me. It seems what this guy wants is to learn things about the world through introspection. Basically, 1) become one with the world; 2) use introspection since the world is now part of you. That way independent confirmation and statistical analysis as well as other scientific customs shouldn’t be necessary.
There’s just one problem with that approach: we’re we and the rest of the world isn’t. It’s a pretty basic difference and it kills any hope to make it useful.
You can fool your brain to make it think you’re becoming one with the world, though, mainly through the use of drugs, particularly salvia. You will literally see your hands melting into the air and the ground you’re sitting in becoming you. But that’s just because your brain is all fucked up and 20 minutes later you’re alright again.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Thanks, Tethys! Here’s the :hic: absinthe.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:42 am
So, I’m going to be in NYC this weekend, playing with my band for the Halloween parade in the village. I’m hoping some pharyngulites will come out and I will get to meet them? Or at least come and enjoy the show! I’ve never been before. Drop me a line on Facebook under Sally Strange (with the Hedy Lamarr photo) or sallylichtenstein 303 at yahoo. Sally Lichtenstein is not my real name, BTW.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:44 am
Oh, laa’s a Slimeball for sure. After I realized that, I killfiled hir. I hope xe goes away. Speaking of which, anyone need some killfile?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:44 am
TLC:
Eh, they all sound alike. There’s more than one who thinks I’m a massive prick (or a nasty bitch, once they figure out I don’t have a prick.)
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:49 am
Really? I’ve seen people use words like “blog whore” (don’t recall “attention whore”) without being called out for it. Do you have good variants?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:50 am
pelamun, blogwhore and attention whore have been freely used here, but given that it is part and parcel of gendered insults, we’ve been trying to be better.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:52 am
Really? There are only female “whores”? Sure maybe the perception is that but really, not so much the case.
Rawnaeris:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:54 am
Holy shit, I’m not able to keep up with TET for a few weeks (*blushes*) and we have LLIRC show back up, plus two more Cupcakes?
I’ll try and be a good Horde member and keep up better.
/Aside; Anyone know if Greasemonkey has an extension for Opera? It’s looking like I may need to dust off the Killfile.
sandiseattle, fannypack user since 2000:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:55 am
Driving by tonight.
So all I get outta the above is : what would a millifuck be anyhow? I suppose just thinking the word fuck might count. Meh. Leave it up to the originator, CC, want to give a working def?
/zoom
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:56 am
Rev. BDC:
Yeah, I have an issue with people who think all prostitutes are women, they aren’t, by a long shot. Still, I get not wanting to be overly comfortable using whore.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:58 am
Sandi, shut the fuck up and go away. We’ve had the quota of trolls tonight.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:58 am
sorry. I meant not “variants”, but “alternatives”.
Well, I don’t think I’ve used them here myself, because I like to err on the side of caution.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:01 am
pelamun, I’ll still go with blogwhore when that’s what someone is doing, because it’s difficult to come up with an accurate replacement. I don’t use it often though.
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:01 am
On a similar note. I miss my killfile, but I can’t seem to find the custom css program that I had for chrome.
It is not stylebot.
Any IT folk have a suggestion?
MikeG:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:03 am
There are male whores, true, but the connotation is gendered. Is there some equivalent phrase that can be used? X-slut is out, x-barker is lame and not derogatory enough, x-pusher has the same problem. Dealer? I’m at a loss for a word that can replace it without losing the non-misogynistic part of the punch.
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:05 am
Old Thread:
*hug* and *boozes* for Jules. Look on the bright side—even the suckiest day eventually turns to an end, and the hope that, just maybe, tomorrow will suck less.
-
Available as a tee shirt in various places. I like this one best.
I also want one of these.
-
I can only say that I got no comfort at all out of my staph.
That was the morphine’s job.
-
I…did not. I thought he was a newcomer, over on the latest Male Supremacists thread. If he’s a vampire, we may be in trouble, folks.
-
-
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:07 am
Uh….hustler? Blog hustler, attention hustler? No?
MikeG:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:10 am
Hustler’s not too bad. That may work.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:13 am
Of course there are male sex workers. But “whore” has a long history as a gendered insult, and, in particular, as a way of shaming and blaming female sex workers (including those who are trafficked and/or forced into prostitution). In most countries, sex workers are not protected by the legal system from rape and violence, and rape of sex workers is alarmingly common – especially in jurisdictions where the prostitution industry is illegal and underground (though legalization is not a panacea either) and in which many sex workers are undocumented migrants or other marginalized people. (Again, this happens to be on my mind at the moment, since I’m taking a course on human trafficking and labour migration.) Sometimes police and courts have refused even to accept that sex workers can be raped, or have regarded a victim’s involvement in sex work as a mitigating factor in a rape trial. And, of course, who could forget the shitbag Massachusetts legislator who thinks it’s just awesome for undocumented migrant women to be afraid to come forward and report their rapes, lest they be deported?
Against this factual background, using a term associated with sex work as an insult contributes to the stigma attached to being a sex worker, and make things worse, not better.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:17 am
(Not that that has any direct bearing on the sex work question. Sorry… brainfart there. But I was thinking of the related issue of people who are stigmatized and unprotected by the law being victimized with impunity.
Anyway, it’s getting late and I should go to bed. Apologies for rambling.)
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:17 am
Congrats, Esteleth! *confetti*
-
I had no idea that Gygax was a conservative Christian. Huh. You learn something every day.
-
Good news indeed! Hurrah!
-
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:19 am
Caine,
as far as I can see, no-one has used “blog hustler” yet. If this word gains currency as a neologism, you can be credited as its creator!
First Approximation:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:20 am
How about instead of ‘whore’ we use ‘politician’? The things they do for money are far more morally questionable.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:20 am
“Blog hustler” sounds good to me. I’ve never been able to come up with something as pithy as “blogwhore”, but I’ve been uncomfortable for a while with using “whore” as a term of disparagement.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:21 am
QFT!
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:22 am
I don’t know if everyone’s already aware of this but Occupy Oakland’s gone really bad. Twitter and the video feed say the police have been using tear gas, flash grenades, rubber bullets, and sound cannons against the protesters. There are apparently severe injuries and a lot of people have been arrested.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:24 am
If I may disagree here. There are actually people who get into politics for idealistic reasons. Though even the Green party was transformed by its “Marsch durch die Institutionen”..
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:26 am
Pelamun:
Oh. Um…yay?
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:29 am
Every year at the annual meeting of the Linguistic Society of America, the American Dialect Society chooses several Words of the Year, which get featured in the oress. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves..
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:31 am
Hmmm, instead of politician, I’d go with a synonym, such as agitator, haranger or fanatic. (Synonyms for demagogue.) Would they work though?
Blog agitator. Attention agitator.
Blog haranger. Attention haranger.
Blog fanatic. Attention fanatic.
First Approximation:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:31 am
Those either change to survive or leave politics, :P.
Fuck. Reminds me of this.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:35 am
Most of the time, when I post on FB about things like this, I get a number of people complaining that I’m “overreacting”, “pre-judging the issue” and so forth, and defending the actions of the police. This happened even when I posted a video of a cop with his motorbike parked on a man’s leg, while the man was lying screaming in pain on the ground; when the man finally managed to kick away the motorbike, he was set on by three cops with batons. Even with this strong evidence of police violence, I was told that I was jumping to conclusions.
I do have to be aware of my own bias; I admit that I have a strong anti-authoritarian viewpoint and that I’m inclined, by default, to distrust cops. Even so, it annoys me that some people (all, you won’t be surprised to hear, on the political right*) are so keen to defend everything the police do (and/or, in some cases, to attack the credibility of the protestors).
(*By British standards, anyway.)
===
True. One of them, Jimmy Carter, even made it to POTUS. However, he wasn’t a great success in that office.
Mostly, the political process selects for people who prioritize the acquisition of power over adherence to ideals, since the former tend to be better at winning elections. There are plenty of idealistic people in politics, and plenty more who would like to be in politics, but few make it to the highest offices.
I wouldn’t last five minutes in electoral politics, personally. What I do hope to do is help to shift the Overton Window – particularly on issues like immigration, where the extreme xenophobes have a loud voice in the political process, while there are few comparably loud voices on the pro-immigration side. I obviously don’t think I’ll see the abolition of immigration detention or deportation in the immediate future, but I do think activism on this issue is a worthwhile endeavour; after all, there are many other social justice objectives which were once considered fringe minority positions and have later become mainstream.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:36 am
s/whore/preacher/ ??
I’m trying to think of a word for a slimy person who will do anything for money (attention/blog hits), but it’s difficult. Huckster, hustler, preacher, peddler, pusher?
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:38 am
Blogvangelist? (After all, a picture of the late unlamented Oral Roberts ought to appear in the dictionary next to “making a fool of oneself for attention and money”.)
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:39 am
I like narcissistic wanker. You could even term it a tauntology.
DemetriusOfPharos:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:41 am
@Tethys
Personalized Web
I was using that back when FTB first launched and Pharyngula was lacking familiar styles. I think I picked it up from TET, actually. But if you are looking for a killfile, there is one that gets linked to now and then – try the previous edition of the thread, or upstream. I’m fairly sure I saw it brought up today.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:41 am
Some of your FB friends are yucky, is what I think.
Oakland PD is currently trending on Twitter. That’s a good sign, I think, even if it doesn’t mean much. Here’s more live video, for people who can follow it.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:41 am
you only came up with Jimmy Carter?
Look at European leftist governments, you might find some more there. For instance, Willy Brandt.
Of course even in leftist parties, there are power struggles and so forth, but the impulse of them getting into politics is often idealistic. And if you look at political scandals, conservatives are better at money scandals than social democrats/greens. They’re not completely above it.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:41 am
Walton:
Why wouldn’t fool work? Blogfool, attention fool? It doesn’t have as much snap, but it’s workable.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:43 am
Demetrius:
Tethys knows about the killfile. What she’s looking for is something similar to greasemonkey for Opera. The KF we have requires Firefox and greasemonkey.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:43 am
That’s for sure. But good idea about the Overton Window. You’d be the gnu equivalent to the accommodationists in the immigration question, like me.
I was involved in politics briefly a long time ago, but the power struggles over meaningless stuff just disgusted me. Now, it might be too late.
First Approximation:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 am
Only somewhat related, but I like the term ‘bought priesthood’.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:54 am
Ah, the pass of the sweet potatoes by the grog keg appeared to helped. Often does.
BCskeptic:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:55 am
It either takes insanity, or great skill to string together a bunch of words to make it sound all sciency and stuff, while not saying anything. It is just B.S., sucked up by the masses, and Chopra’s laughing all the way to the bank.
What a crook.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:57 am
In countries with a “first past the post” electoral system, such as the UK and the US, the number of viable parties tends to be quite small. Voting for an idealistic leftist party (or an idealistic rightist party, for that matter) is usually a wasted vote, unless you happen to live in a constituency / district / state with a very unusual political complexion. One can find the occasional maverick legislator with strongly-held ideals, but they’re not the norm.
In terms of serious leftist parties in the UK, the only one that has even a hint of electoral viability is the Greens, and I strongly disagree both with their blanket anti-nuclear stance and with their support for alternative medicine. And although they’re miles ahead of most other left-wing parties electorally (having had European Parliament and local government seats for some time), they won their first ever seat at the Westminster Parliament in 2010 and are unlikely to win another one. Realistically, it’s a choice between the three main parties, and there’s little to choose between them. (And since the party whip system is so strong in Britain, the identity of one’s local candidate doesn’t really matter, unlike the US.)
I favour proportional representation of some kind, as used in most European democracies. But I don’t think it would solve the problem, since idealists often have to sell out their principles in order to take part in a coalition. (And a lot more energy would also have to be devoted to combating the xenophobic far right, which often – though not always – does pretty well out of PR systems. This is a price I’d be willing to pay for the benefits of PR, but it is a real problem nonetheless.)
Besides, I find electoral democracy alternately aggravating, petty, and boring. Having left Britain, reading news stories and friends’ posts about British party politics, I’ve seen more clearly than ever how asinine it all is, and how little the game of party politics has to do with the real issues; it’s about self-promoting hacks battling over their own careers, and it’s all completely useless and pathetic. (I was involved in student politics when an undergrad, so I have first-hand experience of what it’s all like. I was a Tory in those days, but I knew people involved in the other parties as well, and the whole scene is basically the same.) I realize there isn’t a dramatically better political system – my periodic wisecracks about monarchy notwithstanding – but I just don’t really find it useful or worthwhile for me to be involved in party politics at all. I’d rather engage in activism in other respects (lawyering, volunteering, supporting NGOs, and so on).
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:58 am
Demetrius
YES!!! Thank you. That is the program I lost. I installed it and voila, kill file is once again ready to do my bidding.
Katrina:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:59 am
Caine, glad to hear things are looking up for your little rattie.
Was drinking wine from the small glass tonight, but somehow it didn’t help. I am just this side of incoherent, so preemptive apologies.
Opera is supposed to be able to use “greasemonkey” scripts without having to install killfile. I downloaded the script from pharynguwiki and it worked for a while, but doesn’t seem to be working now. (Must be time to reboot the computer.)
Ogvorbis, I recently read Timothy Egan’s The Big Burn. It was a fabulous book, and I couldn’t help thinking it needed a
at the beginning. I would like to offer my belated {{{hugs}}}/{{chocolate}}/{{{adult beverage}}} for the loss of your Sherman. We have an eldercat here, whom we thought we would lose last winter – but she’s still with us. How do they manage to become such an important part of our lives…
Time to tuck in the (not so) wee ones. I suppose it will take me days to catch up again.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:00 am
Nerd:
It did. Thank you. :)
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:01 am
Chopra sez: Nature doesn’t care about the subject-object split; we are All One.
I say: Chopra’s been reading the Dr. Bronner’s bottle again.
nah, that’s Allen Kell*gg. Not quite as bad.
Blogsolicitor. Attention solicitor.
That’s at least the same meaning, but not much punch as insults, I’m afraid.
hmm.
There’s the Yiddish schnorrer. That’s not bad.
Blogschnorrer? It almost rhymes, even.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:04 am
I’m feeling a bit verklempt right now – splitting my attention between the Occupy Oakland livestream, and an old photo of my late uncle posted by his widow on facebook. She just told me he would have been proud of me and that I held a special place in his part.
Drugs and alcohol took his life – he would have been such a cool, interesting uncle. When he died, I was only 17, and I didn’t understand at the time what I was losing.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:05 am
This looks weird to those of us from across the pond… in England, a solicitor is a type of lawyer.
(I imagine there’s a lawyer joke just itching to be made there. But I won’t make it.)
zugswang:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:05 am
Well, there’s always “tempestuous histrionic”, but it just sounds so damn clinical.
DemetriusOfPharos:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:05 am
@Caine – In this thread it was Rawnaeris who mentioned Opera. Tethys was talking about Chrome, CSS editing, and then a killfile (unless I missed something).
Incidentally:
@Rawnaeris – My google-fu turned up this old blog post on greasemonkey for Opera. No clue if it works, I don’t generally use Opera anymore.
For Opera CSS, I found these two: IncludeCSS and Easy User CSS.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:06 am
Thanks, Katrina. Good to see you here. :)
theophontes:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:06 am
@ TLC (and other lovers of woodcarvings)
I had the good fortune to stumble across the work of a local artist here in Hong Kong, by the name of Kevin Fung. Thought you might want to take a look. (He is also using dyeing of the wood in his works.)
Link to Theophoties (geddit? kekeke)
Link to website gallery.
His work is (eerily) spot-on.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:06 am
Walton,
yes, the British system of course makes it even harder, like in the US. It’s surprising there are three major parties at all.
However, I’d say that unfettered idealism isn’t helpful either, you need to find a balance between idealism and pragmatism.
But you know, once in a while, an inspiring politician comes along, with a visionary goal. Like Willy Brandt with his vision of reconciliation between East and West. He inspired a lot of people to join the SPD, his successor then caused many to quit again due to NATO double track and his support of nuclear energy (though I think he was a good chancellor. He was much more of a pragmatist than Brandt, but he did contribute to the development of the EC institutions etc)
les autres animals:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:07 am
It pains me to wade into your filthy den, but I do it for the good of mankind. [Please: let's not get into debating the etymology versus the current usage of "man". You know what I fucking mean.]
Justify it ten ways til Sunday, but you and I and his brother all know that a) this place fights against sexual violence and that b)this place has a self-recognizing defense against argumentative outsiders of “shove a porcupine (state of decay and angle of approach are variable, according to the poster’s particular perversion) into your rectum”.
How the Friday do you reconcile these? Seriously. Very seriously. The next time you trot out the tired “MRA” and “mansplaining” lines, have a think about the equally sleepy “porcupine” stuff. It’s old, it’s exclusionary, and it’s really fucking offensive.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:09 am
Demetrius:
Ah. I’m sorry, my comprehension seems to be gone tonight. The killfile script is kept at the Pharyngula wiki, under Greasemonkey.
DemetriusOfPharos:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:13 am
Incidentally, I found this post on Greasemonkey for Chrome. Seems Chrome and Opera both just treat user scripts as extensions (if I read the posts correctly, I just skimmed them). YMMV.
DemetriusOfPharos:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:14 am
Uh, this is the link: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/24790/beginner-guide-for-greasemonkey-scripts-in-google-chrome/
I think on that note of HTML fail, I’m off.
theophontes:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:17 am
@ Alfie
Gentle rodent hugs. Get well soon little fella.
@ Sally
New word for me. I know the expression verkrampte only too well.
… and now to catch up with TET properly….
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:18 am
laa:
Not enough, Cupcake, not enough.
No, you’re doing it to troll.
It’s easy. At least it’s easy for those with more than two brain cells.
If it’s ‘sleepy’ and ‘old’, then it shouldn’t be bothersome. It is a Pharyngula meme, you’ll just have to deal with that. As for it being offensive, too bad. You don’t have the right to never be offended. I find douchecakes like you offensive. *shrug*
The offer of a decaying porcupine is simply a creative way of saying “go fuck yourself”. Simple as could be. You’re hardly the first person to whine about it being the same as actual sexual violence, it’s been done before. Try some reading, dear lackwit: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/stop_using_the_lens_of_your_pr.php
I doubt you’ll learn anything, but you know what they say, hope springs eternal and all that.
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:19 am
Oh noes, the auteur is pained by its metaphorical porcupine.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:19 am
Theophontes:
Aaaw, thank you. I’ll see them delivered in the morning, he’s sleeping soundly right now.
Crudely Wrott:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:20 am
Awww, give it a break, laa.
Do you actually suppose that anybody could in fact force a dead porcupine up their butt?
Do you actually suppose that anyone here who applies that curse to trolls of your or any other ilk really expects you to attempt the feat?
Have you never, evereverevereverinyourwholelifecrossyourheartandhopetodie told someone to go do something impossible?
Do you have inside jokes with people you know?
Are you fully human?
Are you really Eliza?
Go stuff your face with your favorite food, take a little nap, watch a favorite movie with your significant other, make a little love and get a good night’s sleep. It’ll be better in the morning.
There, is that a better curse?
*sheesh, what an ultra maroon*
stevegray:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:22 am
Deepak should stop reading books on Quantum Mechanics. He clearly doesn’t understand it and tries to invoke subject and object to explain his belief in woo.
Deepak is a Quantum asshole.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:22 am
Crudely Wrott:
I’d like for xem to simply go away, with or without porcupine. The stench is invading our lounge. Don’t need that slimy nastiness here.
Tethys:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:25 am
Caine
You are a commenting ninja. Trolls tremble at the merest whisper of your name. I raise my absinthe in delight. skol!
Crudely Wrott:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:25 am
Oh, Caine, I haz happy for Alphie. :)
Spose knuckleheads like laa ever see the love and respect and good humor that is the big end of TET?
Nah. Me neither.
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:28 am
That’s a good spot. You don’t get as much Brylcreem on you.
Right, right. Attorney, barrister, solicitor.
I’m going with ‘schnorrer’ (though I can’t remember ever using the old term anyway).
I think it’s overused, but “really fucking offensive”? I think people use it because it’s so obviously, self-evidently, absurdly metaphorical, except maybe to idiots.
Do you think “go fuck yourself” is evocative of sexual violence? I mean, come on. The porcupine thing is just one step more ansurd.
No, I’m afraid that the tu quoque is a real stretch here. It’s just as not-getting-it as the clowns at ERV and the clowns at the Intersocktion before that.
If you want your criticism to hit home, it has to actually, you know, make sense and be accurate. Yours fails.
don’t let the decomposing porcupine hit you in the rectum on the way out
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:29 am
absurd, obv
Sally Strange, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:33 am
Second stupid typo today – Tpyos is delighted with me!
It kinda takes the oomph out of my emotion, though.
Oh well. Time for bed.
First Approximation:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:36 am
He’s in a pure quantum state of assholeness.
_ _ _
On math puns, here’s a great song of them:
Finite Simple Group (of Order Two) – The Klein Four Group
The path of love is never smooth
But mine’s continuous for you
You’re the upper bound in the chains of my heart
You’re my Axiom of Choice, you know it’s true
But lately our relation’s not so well-defined
And I just can’t function without you
I’ll prove my proposition and I’m sure you’ll find
We’re a finite simple group of order two
I’m losing my identity
I’m getting tensor every day
And without loss of generality
I will assume that you feel the same way
Since every time I see you, you just quotient out
The faithful image that I map into
But when we’re one-to-one you’ll see what I’m about
‘Cause we’re a finite simple group of order two
Our equivalence was stable,
A principal love bundle sitting deep inside
But then you drove a wedge between our two-forms
Now everything is so complexified
When we first met, we simply connected
My heart was open but too dense
Our system was already directed
To have a finite limit, in some sense
I’m living in the kernel of a rank-one map
From my domain, its image looks so blue,
‘Cause all I see are zeroes, it’s a cruel trap
But we’re a finite simple group of order two
I’m not the smoothest operator in my class,
But we’re a mirror pair, me and you,
So let’s apply forgetful functors to the past
And be a finite simple group, a finite simple group,
Let’s be a finite simple group of order two
(Oughter: “Why not three?”)
I’ve proved my proposition now, as you can see,
So let’s both be associative and free
And by corollary, this shows you and I to be
Purely inseparable. Q. E. D.
Rey Fox:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:37 am
Pull the other one.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:41 am
Tethys:
Here’s to stinky trolls getting the fuck out of lounge! *clink*
Crudely Wrott:
:D Me too. Thank you.
Nope. Can’t be trippin’ up that cognitive dissonance.
uncle frogy:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:42 am
now that is a very good example of his version of “Hindu science”. He sounds so weird to some but to me he is just using what I would expect of someone who went into science and then retreated back into the religion of his childhood. it does sound very different from what you would hear from a westerner who has a similar experience not so much jesus but more brahma though he does not use the words. his distillation how ever like those of most popularizesers is to bland and limp and has lost most if not all of the poetry and insight possible. if it was manure the only thing left would be the salt.
uncle frogy
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 4:55 am
Theophontes: Very nice. I like his subtle use of color, and the way he leaves tool marks in. Some people, decoy carvers in particular, strive for absolute realism, and I respect that, but I like carvings that are still very obviously woodcarvings.
Jules:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:58 am
Thanks for the virtual lovies, guys.
I’m just going through one of my oh wait, Dad is dead weeks. It’s been a year and a half, so they’re fewer now and farther between. In some ways it makes it worse, like I should be over it.
I guess it started when I saw my niece for the first time since she was born 2 months ago. Mom referred to Brother as Dad. Anyway, you know how we make associations.
My niece kinda looks like me. That means more when you know that I’m the odd one out when it comes to looks. But she’s still a squishy newborn, so I doubt it’ll last.
On the upside, my current editing project has been fun. Material for imaging specialists can be really boring, but this bit goes into anatomical detail. My sophomoric side revels every time I read penis, and my professional side is proud every time I don’t giggle.
In other news: yippee for trolls.
Jules:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:02 am
Beer + typing on phone = HTML good idea!
The Ys:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:15 am
Good evening, everyone,
I’d like to thank those who posted a link to where I could find the killfile script. I’d also like to thank whoever put a link to Set on that page.
Because I needed another addiction. *cries*
Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:17 am
some pissant wrote:
Well, duh. Of course it’s exclusionary and offensive, you clueless goat’s rectum. Your posts demonstrate you’re an asshole, so we’ve decided we don’t like you; ergo, we’ll do what we can to offend you and exclude you in the hope you’ll leave and never come back.
Of course you have an alternative available: to stop posting the sort of nonsense that identifies you as a grade-A clusterfuck. I doubt you’re bright enough to do that, though.
Thomas Lawson:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:18 am
Well, PZ, it’s true. You’ve sold all but 2 of my books with this “Why I Am An Atheist” campaign. (I bought the other 2 as gifts.)
If it makes you feel better, it’s nowhere near being a NYT Bestseller. But many thanks anyway!
MikeM:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:18 am
I finally got to watch “The Pat Tillman Story” tonight.
During Kevin Tillman’s testimony before Congress, I cried.
Tillman family, I am with you now. They never say straight out this was W’s fault (by manipulating and influencing the message for propaganda reasons), but I received this message loud and clear.
If you haven’t seen this movie yet, you need to.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:20 am
Thread-bankrupt driveby!
THIS is why people line up for ghey secks with Brownian. I bow.
Jules:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:28 am
Mwahahaha! I mean, there there. It’ll be just fine.
*rolls around madly on table covered in Set cards, cackling and howling and screaming SET!
First Approximation:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:41 am
WTF? Just saw this on The Daily Show:
Pat Robertson Says GOP Getting Too ‘Extreme’ To Win Election
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:05 am
This is not today’s insane Herman Cain ad, this is from a couple of months ago. If anything, this is more unhinged.
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:07 am
If the Democratic Party had any intestinal fortitude they’d already be running ads like “Republicans: Too crazy for Pat Robertson!”
SteveV:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:47 am
(previous thread)
You can’t polish a plumber.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
They won’t take that sort of Finnish.
chigau (meh):
October 26th, 2011 at 6:47 am
blog-mammothrept
A mammothrept is someone who was raised by their grandmother.
also can be described as “a self-willed, pasty-faced, brat of hell”.
That's Not Funny:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:00 am
So, how many feminists does it take to change a lightglobe?
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:06 am
From my experience, one. But why take the word of a lying girl?
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:07 am
@#149: you’re not from around these parts, are ya?
That joke actually was funny the first maybe 4 or 5 times. The last 6000, not so much. Do be sure to drop it into every appropriate thread, however.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:19 am
Subject/object split? Yeah, there was a time that my computer and my body was was one.
mtskeptic:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:21 am
I think Julia Sweeney said it best:
“Deepak Chopra is full of shit!”
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 7:42 am
Got a bit of a pet problem, it seems.
I was looking at Jack the Starling’s legs, and his claws have grown ridiculously long. Starlings hate to be held, or at least mine does, and it’s enough of a struggle whenever the end of his beak needs trimming, and I hate how much it stresses him out. I’m terrified that if I try I’ll end up hurting him somehow, but I don’t think I can just leave them either.
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:01 am
Oh, that Sara Mayhew, who was on the SGU the other week. Nice!
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:25 am
Mazzy Star has a new single, Common Burn. Who knew this was coming? I liked the two Hope Sandoval albums that came out in the almost two decades between Mazzy Star releases. Hope Sandoval’s musical partner in The Warm Inventions, Colm Ó Cíosóig, is the drummer for a band that could not come up with a follow up album to Loveless, My Bloody Valentine.
And for no reason at except, well I like the song and the video amuses me, here is Romance by Wild Flag.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:27 am
One could say that there is no subject/object split for Deepak and his shit.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Late night music nostalgia. My college DJ self would be harshly mocking middle age me. Cuckoo by Curve was in very heavy rotation for me in the mid nineties.
Missing Link
Turkey Crossing
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am
TZLC, do you know the bird-banders’ hold? From behind with the neck between fore & fuckyou fingers?
Like this or this.
Most birds will stay calm when you gently immobilize the wings this way, and if you’re dextrous (or sinister) you can even clip with your other hand. Much easier for 2 people, of course.
This works great even with jays and crows.
ChasCPeterson:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am
-Z
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Split by Lush was also on very heavy rotation for me at that time.
Light From A Dead Star
Desire Lines
Otrame:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:36 am
@154
You MUST trim them. If you can afford a vet visit, have them do that and the bill. They will work fast (experience counts) and he won’t blame you for the trauma. Be sure to find a vet that routinely deals with birds. The techs working for “cat and dog only” types won’t have much more experience than you do.
Otherwise, look up the procedure on the net. You really can’t let them grow too long. I always have at least one “sandpaper” type perch for my cocky. His claws stay fairly short and only get trimmed at his annual checkup.
Birger Johansson:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:50 am
Researchers (in Sweden and Finland) have found evidence for the existence of a hypnotic state http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-10-evidence-hypnotic-state.html
If you want to get influence on a par with Colbert, you must harness the power of hypnotism! (cue reference to “Doctor Mabuse”).
BTW, wasn’t the agenda of Dr. Mabuse identical to that of the Republicans? “We must create chaos so the people turn to us to restore order….[snip]…and introduce the (phrase roughly translatable as “dominion of crime”, “herrschaft” of crime)”.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 10:26 am
Chas: I’ve tried that one. He struggles hard enough that I worry about his neck. He’s very hand tame, provided he’s sitting on the hand and not being grasped by it.
I suppose I’ll have to try again. The beak I’m able to manage, but I have to talk calmly to him and move slowly for a while. He fights it but eventually gives in and lets me hold him down with my hand, as long as he’s still got his feet on something else. I’m only nipping bits of keratin off the ends to even up the tips anyways, nothing painful.
It’s just that those legs are so skinny, and nipping one beak tip is easier than eight little claws.
Otrame: I suppose a sandpaper perch would only help a little, and not completely eliminate the need for claw trimming?
MudPuddles:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Hello everyone, I have a Chopra-related query. I was surprised to find out that Chopra and Leonard Mlodinow had collaborated on a book called “War of the Worldviews: Science vs. Spirituality” (for those who don’t know of it, its basically a written debate on issues scientific and spiritual, with Mlodinow writing a chapter on the secular scientific view point of whatever, and Chopra responding with his religious version.)
I picked it up in my local bookshop and opened it at a random page where Chopra was talking about being a student of consciousness and how that gave him a better perspective on science than blah blah blah oh holy crap at that point my brain began to turn into mush.
So has anyone read it? Is everything Chopra has written in the book so full of utter nonsense? And if so then why the hell has Mlodinow agreed to such a pointless exercise? My esteem for the man has dimmed somewhat.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 10:54 am
I’m no expert on either (and truth be told the first time I ever heard of Chopra was through a playboy magazine when I was 14, one of the models mentioned being a fan of his, and I barely heard of him ever again for years) but I assume it was a misguided effort to combat that whole “Scientists are all cold emotionless robots” stereotype in the public consciousness.
Rumtopf:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Have you tried toweling him so just his feets poke out? Works for my ‘tiel, he stays quite calm and still in the dark (but he has a sort-of fixation with towel-cloth, likes to hump the stuff, little bugger). But I do recommend a vet visit if you feel you’re not confident enough to do it, or if you lack a bird-savvy friend to help.
Sandpaper perche covers do help cut down the amount of trimmings needed. Ideally you want perches of differing widths in the cage as well, to keep bird feets happy and healthy. You can get those big chunky parrot perches that seem to be made of a pumice stone like material, that would be fab. I use bits of brick in my rat cages, strategically placed in high traffic areas, to keep their claws down but I dunno how that would work out for birds.
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am
MudPuddles,
in this context you might be interested in this video documenting the arguably first ever direct encounter of the two authors in a Q&A session
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y5D7q1O1Uk
out of which, I can only assume, this collaboration arose.
Rumtopf:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:15 am
Eeee rats! Caine, I hope Alfie comes out of it okay. They’re tough little things. Try him on egg food(I use EMP brands, it’s a seed/egg/vit+min feed, used as a feed for caged bird breeding), you make it into a mash and it’s wonderful stuff for building up infant, pregnant/lactating, sick or elderly rats.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Rumtopf: I might try that. It’s a particular concern, because from all the scant internet information I could find about starlings as pets (and it is SCANT, and most of it is old, like geocities old), they appear to be prone to foot problems. Almost all of the older (as in around middle age and up) birds in the photos had really gnarled knobby arthritic looking feet, though seemed otherwise healthy.
It’s only recently that his nails have become much of a problem though.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:29 am
I. Must. Have. This. Painting.
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Katherine,
oh I like that, too! A copy of the oldest known painting of Stockholm, and at the same time with a fascinating optical phenomenon. Ok, all we have to do is break into that church and get it! Or, maybe, they have a gift shop ;)
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:35 am
HI there
I only skimmed the thread, so it might as well be that I missed something important.
In German I’d make the distinction between a more physical state and a more psychological state.
“Verkrampft” means you need to relax physically (mostly), or, when doing something, you are trying to hard
“Verklemmt”, unless it refers to some object actually stuck somewhere (and you need to pray to Annoya), means that you’re too prude and has an exclusive sexual connotation.
So, most American conservatives would count as “verklemmt”
substitute for “blogwhoring”
How about “click-fishing”, as in fishing for compliments?
pet food
Not my rabbit “Pünktchen” has become increasingly choosy. We got them from a breeder who keeps them for meat and expositions, so they were exclusively pellet-fed when they arrived and everything that was fresh and green was delicious. But after the first delight went away he stopped eating this and that.
Also, the gras is always greener on the other side of the fence, no matter if the rabit run has been placed on a fresh piece of green just before.
completely useless information
5 out of 6 two-year-olds agree that cupcakes are much better when shared with mummy, provided that mummy eats the cake while they have the topping.
Birger Johansson:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:35 am
“The guilty are invincible…” the text of this song makes me think of Wall Street for some reason. “Laleh – Invisible” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ll4SSMktwU
Rick Perry On Increasing Income Inequality: ‘I Don’t Care About That’ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/25/rick-perry-tax-plan_n_1030991.html
NY Fed’s $40 Billion Iraqi Money Trail http://www.cnbc.com/id/45031100
— — — — — — — — — — —
Actually Tax Cuts Don’t Seem to Have Much Impact on Economic Growth…(but who cares?) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-strauss/tax-cuts-economic-growth-_b_1031376.html
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:43 am
@Alex:
Hmm… maybe we can construct a giant wooden badger?
Birger Johansson:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:48 am
“So, how many feminists does it take to change a lightglobe?”
The juxtaposition of “globe” and “light” seems a bit astronomy related. Change a Dyson sphere? Anyway, did any of you see this light show? : “Northern Lights Travel South: Aurora Borealis Seen In Over 20 States (PHOTOS)” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/25/northern-lights-aurora-borealis-pictures_n_1030854.html
— — — — — — — — —
One of the very few true examples of inherited differences between black people and others: “Gene variant increases risk of kidney disease in African-Americans” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-10-gene-variant-kidney-disease-african-americans.html
Actually, the idea of providing economic compensation for kidney donors makes sense, and in *this* case it would not be rich people buying organs from poor people.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
“A new video by Joey Boots shows conservative blogger Evan Coyne Maloney confronted while attempting to distribute bongs and Che Guevara rolling papers to protesters at Zuccotti Park in New York. A small crowd forms as a protester begins publicly questioning Maloney’s blatant attempt at creating a hippie-esqe photo-op.”
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Katherine,
I’m thinking along the lines of something like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dalah%C3%A4st_i_avesta.jpg
It’s traditional, proven technology, and has cultural streed cred in Sweden.
GJames:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
I’m amazed Deepak manages to brush his teeth in the morning.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Alex:
Ooh, that’ll work! Now how do we get them to bring the horse into the church?
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
blogflog
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Damn you, Urban Dictionary.
Haruhiist:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
On a substitute for blogwhoring: may I suggest using blogmongering? After fishmongering, not warmongering.
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
#25,
Underestimate me not. :)
julian:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@Katherine & Alex
How do you intend to split the booty? There’s two of you and only one of it.
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
I like blogschnorrer (barring connotations unknown to me) and blogmonger.
Or blogchaplain. :)
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@GJames
How does Deepak Chopra not know exactly what he is doing. He’s rich, and damn popular.
@Katherine Lorraine
Easy, since the European mainstream churches are pretty progressive nowadays and open for new ideas, we can write some bible verses and Darwin quotes on it and claim it is a temporary arts installation we want to do in the church highlighting the subtle invasion of religious thought by the idea of evolution.
ChrisH:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
I did work with a conservative Christian once, fellow by the name of E. Gary Gygax. A conservative Christian, yes, but no tendentious twit. :)
THE Gary Gygax? I never had the pleasure of meeting Gary, but I did get the chance to shake hands and say hi to Dave Arneson when I attended Fullsail. Very nice man.
ibyea:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Wow, even the youtube commenters think Chopra is full of crap.
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
oops. I guess the most sensible thing would be to sell it on the black market and invest the money in advance for an artist to make two faithful copies of it.
This is more complicated than originally anticipated.
———–
Btw has anyone seen Little Fockers, the second sequel to Meet the Parents? There’s one scene where they have a video call with the Owen Wilson character, a goofy rich investment banker and aspiring interfaith spiritual priest, and Deepak Chopra has a cameo in that scene as his yachting buddy.
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
There’s a word for male sex workers, ones who service women. Midnight Cowboy was about one. But for the life of me I can’t recall what the word is.
ckerst:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I didn’t understand a thing he said, he must be really smart.
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
#188 ChrisH
Not only was Gary a conservative Christian, he was a libertarian as well. Just recently I learned his son Luke and a few other people ran an annual convention in his name in Lake Geneva WI, Gary Con. Google “gary con” and go visit the site.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Are you thinking of gigolo, mythusmage?
Amusingly (for a certain value of amusing) the dictionary says a gigolo is a kept man (esp. if kept by an older woman) or “a man who is paid to dance with or escort women” – because of course they couldn’t possibly actually want sex, could they now? ::rolleyes::
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Or you could just visit Gary Con.
(Yes, I space obvious things. I think it’s my Aspergers.)
mythusmage:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
#194, Opposablethumbs
It”s either gigolo or a synonym.
Mark:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
I watched closely during Chopra’s reply, looking for signs of actual information being communicated from one point to the other, but I could detect nothing.
Dr. Strabismus (WGP) of Utrecht:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Allow me to recommend the latest Jesus & Mo comic.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
gigolo?
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
And, as I predicted, my most recent post about the Oakland violence has led to more argument. *sigh*
MudPuddles:
October 26th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@Alex #168
Hi Alex, thanks for the link; I saw that video and its the same Q&A session as the one in PZ’s post. After that event I believe that they agreed to meet, ostensibly so that they could discuss the use of the term “quantum” and whether or not Chopra understood what the word really meant. I can only guess that Chopra actually made enough sense for someone like Mlodinow to agree “yeah, we both have valid viewpoints and we should work together on a book”. But from my (admittedly limited) perusal of the book, its all “quantum consciousness” woo on Chopra’s side, and I imagine a book akin to PZ writing on evidence for evolution with alternate chapters by Ray Comfort writing about the joy of god’s bananas. Unless each Mlodinow chapter is a no-holds-barred smack down of Chopra’s Fantasia-inspired version of theoretical physics, I’m baffled.
I started watching a HuffPost video of Chopra and Mlodinow discussing the book, but switched off after 2 minutes; the host was a god-bothering goon obviously enamoured with Chopra and bemused by science, and when Chopra spoke (and interjected constantly) Mlodinow seemed unable to hold his own. I also hate the fact that the book is framed as the battle between science and spirituality, when there really is no battle there at all; science and religion yes, but science and an individual’s subjective perception of their place in the world and their own personal views on life / the universe / everything? Not necessarily – and atheists are some of the most spiritually fufilled people I know.
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
One for Walton
The dress was rather pink, wouldn’t you say ?
hoverfrog:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Science doesn’t need to evolve to fit into Chopra’s way of thinking. He needs to adjust his way of thinking to fit in with the evidence and conclusions of science. Science is a tool that furnishes us with the best available explanation for…well for just about everything. Of course, sometimes the conclusions of scientists are proven false and this is a good thing because it extends out knowledge and understanding.
Bullshit the like of which Chopra spouts doesn’t help anyone and actively keeps people in a primitive and ignorant mindset.
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Random question: does anyone else’s nose itch sometimes after they eat? I’ve been noticing it more the last few years, but have never stopped to pay attention to what kinds of foods it’s related to. Someone once told me it might be related to food allergies. I finally just looked it up and found a decent argument that it could be caused by histamine-rich foods, and that the increased blood flow to the face while eating might concentrate the histamines in the nose region. I then looked up what foods were histamine-rich, and saw… chocolate. While sitting at the computer, rubbing my itchy nose, empty Dove wrapper in my other hand.
Damn.
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
So how many people actually think that police brutality at Occupy Oakland is going to be treated with the sort of seriousness that it should be?
…and how many think that it’s going to get mischaracterized to hell, because if it’s in Egypt it’s okay but over here it’s just “first world problems”?
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I like it, actually. *ducks*
But I’d never wear it with black shoes :/
Oh well, that’s an English thing isn’t it?
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Well, right now, several of my friends are busily defending it.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Rorschach: Good to see Her Majesty the Queen of Australia meeting her people. And what’s wrong with the pink dress? :-)
Also, trams are awesome. One of my favourite forms of transport. (Actually, I think the last time I travelled on a tram was in Bremen, Germany, about five years ago now.)
arakasi:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Deos everyone remember the annoying little twerp Eugene Delguadio and his fundraising letter from this post ?
Well, he is up for reelection this year, so I decided to do a little anti-fundraising. I sent his opponent, Alfonso Nevarez, $50 and followed it up with an email explaining why.
Yes, I am easily amused. Why do you ask?
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Walton, you deal with your Oakland crowd on FB, but may I say that I don’t believe in kings or queens, but rather in people who got lucky at birth. Our Prime Minister earned some respect back when she didn’t bow to the nice elderly lady the other day.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Your friends are weird.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
*sigh* I just don’t know why some people are so insistent on being apologists for police brutality, however egregious the actions of the police.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
If you need an illustration of how my week is going, here it is.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Some people just enjoy being apologists for irrational things because they’re attracted to the idea of it, and it makes them happy to imagine the order of the universe depends on it… even if it hurts people or has hurt people.
Some times, it tries the patience of others to be around such arguments.
But friends abide, don’t they?
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
If it helps, I loved your recent pictures (favorites: #18 of the balloons and the first of the fall group).
zugswang:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Well, MSM has been working overtime to cast Occupiers as the impotently angry and ignorant parasites of public space rather than taking time to really examine or report on their list of grievances. It probably won’t receive the attention it deserves, beyond reporting police action as pest control to remove an entrenched hippie infestation.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Excellent book. I have witnessed firestorms from afar, but have never been up close and personal with one. They are scary. I was four miles away from one in Idaho and, as it got rolling in the afternoon (burning through some doghair fir), I felt the wind shift strongly as air was pulled in at the base of the conflagration.
Well, it has already been revealed, through the ever accurate Faux News, that the leaders who have created this plot against capitalism and ‘Mercuh are, in fact, Canadian, so the police brutality will be ignored because the protesters are not ‘real’ Bachmannite Americans.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Thanks! Trying to get out shooting more but that dog in the .gif above keeps keeping me down.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Oh yes… Real America.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
OT:
Is it just me that finds this Onion article a little misogynistic and/or classist? I get the intended joke, but something about it just sets my teeth on edge.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Sure Walton, but then again they’re satirizing the already patronizing social strategy for getting people to stop smoking so I don’t know.
I do know that Trish would be a hit with hipsters and she’d probably get more kids smoking these days.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Oh, I didn’t see it on that level. I guess the article, rather than mocking “Trish” herself, could be seen as satirizing the whole nasty shaming-and-blaming approach that our society seems to take to public health problems.
(I understand why people are anti-smoking. I don’t smoke and have no desire to start, and of course it’s true that smoking is very dangerous. But it strikes me that a lot of the social opprobrium presently attached to smoking, like that attached to obesity, is really just a pretext for some people to mock and humiliate those people they see as making the “wrong choices” and lacking “willpower” – in total ignorance of the latter’s circumstances, and usually with a heavy dose of oblivious socio-economic privilege and of ignorance about mental health and addiction.)
curiouser:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Carlie:
That’s interesting. I’ve noticed for awhile that since I’ve worked my way up to eating strong chocolate, I sneeze every time I start (and then I’m itchy-nosed, but otherwise fine, while eating the rest). The idea that increased blood flow to the face combined with histamines makes some kind of sense, intuitively anyway. I have a history of food sensitivities and other allergies, so my immune system is particularly histamine-sensitive; maybe that’s the connection? At any rate, you’re not alone in this experience. I don’t think it’s dangerous (for me, at any rate, since additional exposure has not changed the reaction). It sure is irritating, though.
By the way: hi everyone. I’m a hardcore lurker, and though I rarely comment myself, I really enjoy the community here. You all are doing great work, and it’s helped me personally on quite a number of matters. Hearing good, clear arguments has been important in developing a more rigorous way of thinking. So, thank you.
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
You’re welcome mate, and welcome ! I just hope somebody start paying us for this shit already. Or give us a purple internet heart or something.
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Just in case I didnt post this last night : Pretty Woman
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@Alex:
That’s a fantastic idea!!
And yes, I agree to that. We shall merely sell it and get reproductions.
Or additionally we could, y’know… attempt to find a print. Probably cheaper, and less people would be harmed by it, and no international theft incidents.
Dianne:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Rorschach @18: Thanks for the link to the new chew toy, but it seems to have been a rather wimpy one: didn’t stay to argue his point, just posted and ran. Sigh.
greame:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Completely OT, but I’m wondering if anyone might have some suggestions for me. I have an older, 18 year old cat. My old girl has been my best friend for most of my life. For the last week or so whatever she ate, she would throw up and she hasn’t eaten anything for maybe a day now. She drinks a little water, but I can’t get her to eat. I’m well aware 18 years is really old for a cat. She’s an indoor cat and was always traumatized whenever we took her to the vet, even just to get her nails clipped and would hide for days afterwards. If she is just getting old and ready to pass away, I don’t want to put her through being poked and prodded at the vet, and I don’t want her last interactions with us to be so negative. If she is just on her way out, I want just want to make her comfortable. I want to respect her as much as possible. What do you think? Should we bring her to the vet and see if there is anything we can do to make her well again? or just make her as comfortable as possible with her family?
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Yeah, one hit wonder, that one.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
They’re talking about these ad campaigns:
Article
Example here
The problem with them is that a lot of people are just repulsed by sick people and don’t connect the other person to themselves, or just react against people trying to scare/shock/hurt them.
IOW, they backfire.
Hence, the sarcasm of “put an ugly person on it and people won’t buy it” in the article.
At least, that’s my take on it. In the end, it just ends it just comes off like the people running the ad campaign are hateful people.
rorschach:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
I agreed in a weak moment to appear at this event where students want to discuss the ramifications of elevatorgate tomorrow :
I might call in sick I think. They better have beer.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Graeme, as hard as it is I would take her to the vet. If she is sick enough you will be surprised at how passive she’ll be about it.
It could be something like an abscess which they can treat if the food she vomits isn’t chewed for instance it may just be making her sick.
Cannabinaceae:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Rev, I will be keeping my eyes out for it. Perhaps it will be available when I dine on a coal-fired square pizza at Joe Squared tonight before the Lucinda Williams concert. Did you have it from bottles or from the tap?
Sailor, last TET: A groan (or confession thereof) is the highest form of flattery.
Others: Visions of police brutality leave me feeling impotent and uninvolved. I share and support the emotions behind the Occupy movement, but you won’t find me Occupying as being in a big mob makes me feel like I’m about to panic. Just going to a concert as I will be doing tonight has a relatively unpleasant essence to it, but I can cling to the inherent structured basis of concerts.
greame:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Thanks, Algernon. My mom is convinced that it’s just old age and doesn’t want to bring her, but after doing a bit of reading it may be something that’s treatable. I’m going to see if there are any mobile vets that would make a house call to see if we can avoid the stress and they’d be in a better position to tell us if she she can be treated or not. Thanks a lot.
speedwell:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Blogsplainer
?
Richard Austin:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Carlie/curiouser:
I seem to get a histamine reaction when I eat anything – running nose, flush face, sometime sneezing. I assume it’s some kind of low-level food allergy, but I’ve no idea what it could be since, as I said, it seems to happen no matter what I eat (even just munching apples as a snack); the more I eat, though, the longer it goes on.
Of course, it may also just be a random factor of my alien biology (I’m the 37.5% German, 37.5% Irish, 25% Czec who’s allergic to alcohol; there is -is- a deity, xe has a sense of humor).
Katrina:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Graeme, I have a cat who just turned nineteen.
If you can, take her in to get some blood work done. Then, you’ll at least have a better clue what the problem is and be able to make an informed decision about her.
We thought we’d lost ours last winter. Her kidneys had been on the verge of failing for several years, and we thought they’d finally gone. As it turned out, she’d developed diabetes. Once we started providing insulin, she bounced back.
Since then, we actually haven’t done much blood work. We know what’s wrong with her, and we know that whatever happens next time will be “the last straw”.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Two pieces of string and an old piece of knotted rope walk into a bar. One of the pieces of string approaches the barman to order drinks.
String 1: Three beers please.
Barman: Er … are you by any chance a piece of string?
String 1: Yes I am.
Barman: Well fuck off… we don’t serve string here.
The string returns to the table looking dejected. The second piece of string tries to order drinks but also gets told to fuck off.
Finally the old piece of knotted rope summons the courage and approaches the barman.
Rope: Three beers please.
Barman: Er … are you by any chance a piece of string?
Rope: No, I’m a …
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
… frayed knot.
curiouser:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Richard Austin:
Huh, I got nothin’. Makes me wonder if maybe it has to do mostly with increased blood flow rather than an actual allergy. Possibly irritation caused by the small amount of swelling? Since you say it happens no matter what food, unless you’re sensitive to everything, that seems to rule out a specific allergic reaction.
But wow, I thought I was the only one. Seems I’m not so weird after all, sneezing from eating. o.O
Benjamin "Durr Hurr" Geiger:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Light globes.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
As many of you know, part of my job includes going to forest fires (I was also at Katrina and in NYC for the World Trade Center incident). At wildland fires, a frequently used tactic is the backfire — using fire to fight fire. Since the bad jokes have been flowing all over the place ’round these parts, here are my three wildland firefighter jokes (and you have only yourselves to blame):
Pitiful, eh? Don’t worry, I’m saving the best for last.
And now, the best (or at least the longest) for last:
Richard Austin:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
curiouser:
Mine’s probably gustatory rhinitis; if you’re reacting to specific foods, it might be a histamine allergy instead. Regardless, it’s slightly annoying but livable (at least for me).
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
curioser and Richard – glad to know I’m not alone! Now I’m going to embark on a quest to test foods and my reactions to them. :)
Greame, if you have a good vet, they’ll understand and probably even tell you that there’s no point being really invasive at that age (although I didn’t realize quite how much of an emotional hit it would be hearing it from them instead of thinking it myself).
I don’t know how comparable prices are, but a set of comprehensive bloodwork where I am is about $150. Depending on the problem, you might want to treat or go for palliative care, but you’d know what options you have. My elderly (16) cat was in a similar situation to Katrina’s; the first big dip was a kidney disease diagnosis last year, and the second big dip was in February – after we did bloodwork, it turned out to just be a potassium imbalance. They added potassium to her fluid injections and she perked right back up with appetite and mobility for several more months after that and made it all the way to the end of September, with very good health until the last two weeks. But then again, that was giving her injected fluids several times a week, so there’s also what you’re willing and able to do that’s a factor.
It’s really up to you and how your cat is. If your cat was fine before this, it might be something easily fixable. If it’s the latest in a long line of decline, then there might not be much use finding out exactly what it is.
Emrysmyrddin:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
More teeth-grindingly stupid male-orientated asshattery:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/15452596.stm
…and a great reaction from an industry insider:
http://blog.timesunion.com/boxing/a-conversation-with-dr-c-k-wu-more-on-warriors-in-skirts/4263/
zugswang:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
So would you be down for an Occupy [Town Hall Meeting]?
greame:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Thank you, Katrina and Carlie. She didn’t have any major health issues before so I’m hoping there may be something we can do for her. Cost is not really a concern…I’m more concerned with causing her unnecessary pain and stress. We’ll take her into the vet tonight. I’m hoping with me and my mom there, we’ll be able to keep her somewhat comfortable. Thank you again.
Rey Fox:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Funny, they appear to be the same questions from before.
Algernon:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
If anyone hasn’t seen it there is a wonderful post on the Kos. If I could share it on FB I would.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/21/1028500/-A-Voice-From-the-1
“First let me note that I am not part of the yacht and private jet set, which represents an even smaller subset of incomes than mine. The threshold for inclusion in the top 1% of income earners in 2008, the most recent year for which published data is available from the IRS, was $380,354, enough for an extraordinary life but nowhere near enough for a harbor berth in St. Moritz. Nevertheless, I am – for now – comfortably ensconced in that demographic. Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would save me roughly $400,000 a year in taxes, and President Obama’s tax proposals would cost me more than $100,000, yet I support the latter and consider the former laughable.
Thus you can imagine my amazement this summer when I watched the Republicans in Congress push the United States to the brink of default – and the world to the brink of ruin – over whether to repeal a portion of the Bush tax cuts and raise my taxes by 3.5%. I know a lot of people with high incomes and even the conservatives among them were confused by that sequence of events. Here is a secret about rich people: we wouldn’t have noticed a 3.5% tax increase. That is not only because there isn’t a material difference between having $1 million and $965,000, which is obvious, but also because most of us don’t actually know how much money we are going to make in a given year. Most income at that level is the result of profits rather than salary, whether it comes in the form of bonuses, stock options, partnership distributions, dividends or capital gains. Profits are unpredictable and they tend to vary wildly. At my own firm, the general rule of thumb is that if we are within 5% of our budget for the year, everyone is happy and no one complains. A variation of 3.5% is merely a random blip.
I was not amazed but disgusted when John Boehner and his crew tried to justify the extremity of their position by rebranding the wealthy as “job creators.” While true in a very basic sense, it obscures the fact that jobs are a cost that is voluntarily incurred only as a result of demand. Hiring has no correlation at all to profits or to income – none. Let me keep more of my money without increasing customer demand and I will do just that – keep it. Perhaps I will spend a little more of it, though probably not, but even if I do it won’t help the economy very much. Here is another secret of the well-to-do: we don’t really buy much more stuff than everyone else. It may be more expensive stuff, sure, but I don’t buy cars, or appliances, or furniture, or anything else more frequently than the average consumer. The things I do spend more money on are services such as travel, entertainment, restaurants and landscaping, none of which generate well-paying middle class jobs. There, in a nutshell, is the sad explanation of what has happened to the American economy over the last 25 years of “trickle down” economics.”
Cannabinaceae:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
I don’t really know, is that a real thing, or should I substitute something for [Town Hall Meeting]?
What I would love to see is a creative response, that wasn’t a mob scene, that would allow me to express my solidarity by mere participation. I confess to a certain laziness: about all I can think of is switching banks, but the hassle factor has me immobilized on that, which I feel guilty about.
We’re already on the low end of the consumer scale – drive less than 10,000 miles a year per car (more like 5,000 this year); we consume so little (two person household) that we usually only put the garbage out every other week, in a small can, yet. In fact, W.U. brings recycling home from work as we only half-fill our bins in a week’s time. We use air conditioning only to cool the small office room where the computers live, so in a sense our lifestyle itself is an invisible protest, but it’s not like we’re sacrificing, it’s just how we live, which we do extremely richly, as far as personal experience goes.
B:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Dear Deepak: Was you last name “Rasputin” in a previous life? Inquiring minds want to know………
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal.
-
Welcome in, curiouser!
Wait. You’re not a vampire, are you?
-
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Rumtopf, thanks!
curiouser:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
cicely, thanks. I had to look up that reference! Nope, no vampire here, just a variation on my typical handle.
Richard Austin, you are probably right. I think I might join Carlie in scientific food experimentation to see what else is a trigger. But I’m not giving up my chocolate, oh no. Sneezing is worth it.
madbull:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:18 pm
Does Deepak ever listen to himself talk ?
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
I am playing an extremely violent video game. The character swallows hir foes whole and either spits them out at others or absorbs the entire essence of what makes them who they are.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Anti-Occupiers… always a class act.
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
@Rey Fox
It’s just abysmally worded, that’s all.
@madbull
I am pretty certain it is hard to hear yourself talk with the sound of all those cash registers resonating in your head.
@Katherine Lorraine,
LOL, I hope those are NPCs you are talking about :)
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM says:
Well, I’m not into the hardcore stuff. Just assertive women with bigger sexdrives than their boyfriends and the occasional bit of pegging.
But I’m pretty sure I’m not you since I’ve only just acquired a book on learning Greek – from the lovely wooly Corbie.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
@Alex:
Yea. NPCs, little fluttery bugs, waddling guys, sword masters, fireballs.
Kirby is a violent game when you put it in its real terms.
pelamun:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
An entry on squids on Notalwaysright.com
http://notalwaysright.com/some-concepts-like-squid-are-slippery/14472
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
Yeah, that’s often the case. Imagine someone would play real life chess,
sacrificing the lower classes to protect…
oh. wait.
slignot:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
TLC, I’m crazy late, but I wanted to chime in with notes on bird nail trimming.
I have a fairly hard time trimming my nanday’s toes because he really, really hates it and always fights. We have to immobilize him in a towel to prevent bloodshed; parrot beaks are dangerous. (He hates this too, but we give him a reward afterward, usually juice, so he doesn’t hold a grudge.) However, our method usually involves the coordinated efforts of two people, one to catch and hold in the towel, while the other quickly takes care of the nails.
What makes it harder is that his nails are black, so you can’t easily see where the quick is. Our avian vet actually suggested using a dremel bit to sand down the tips of his nails rather than trimming them. (Less sharp edges and chance of bleeding) But if you do use trimmers, make sure you have some styptic powder handy in case you trim too far. Usually you don’t take much off at a time, obviously.
I do not recommend sandpaper perches; they are hard on the feet themselves with fairly little aid in accomplishing a neat wear on the nail.
Benjamin "the mobile site won't let me log in" Geiger:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Oh, wonderful.
Remember that movie Ray Comfort inflicted on the world recently? “180″?
They’re handing out copies on campus.
I got one and it’ll sit next to my copy of Expelled. I may even watch it once if I can find a strong enough antiemetic.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
Slignot: Starling beaks aren’t sharp and dangerous like a parrots, but they still present their own challenge.
I’m sure you’ve all read about the specialized ligaments in a starling’s beak that allow them to use it as a prying tool, and if not, well, starlings have specialized ligaments in their beaks that allow them to use it like a prying tool. And it’s strong. He’s been able to crowbar my fingers right off him before. I have to wire his cage doors shut, because he can pry them open too, and used to do it any time he pleased. (Know what’s annoying? trying to sleep in and having a friggin bird land on your face). It was very ‘cute’ (yeah right) when he discovered this awesome power, because then he wanted to use it on literally everything. Even things that don’t really work that way.
Does your parrot talk? I was talking to Jack last night, and I noticed that whenever he says something, his pupils constrict while he’s talking. I think I’ve noticed this in video of talking parrots too. I wonder why that is. Guess I’ll have to hit up AAB again.
I still can’t get over the fact that birds are dinosaurs, and starlings are very much maniraptors. Sometimes, I can’t help but try to picture him with teeth and wing claws. It’s not very hard to picture.
In case anyone’s wondering, this was my inspiration for getting one in the first place. Once I read up on paleontology and learned that birds -ARE- dinosaurs… not ‘descended from dinosaur relatives’, or ‘closely related to the same stock the dinosaurs came from’, but actual living dinosaurs, I had to get one. A pet starling cannot be an impulse purchase, because you can’t purchase it. The price was roughly two months of my life, a fuckton of effort, and my former friend acting like a whiny pissant because I wasn’t dropping everything to hang out at his place all day.
Well, I suppose I’ve wandered way off the topic of nail trimming, but I can’t help but go on about him. No other animal I’ve known is so simultaneously annoying and endearing. I’m thinking of someday trying to make a video or website, writing up absolutely everything I know about starlings and their care, since information is scarce.
If any of YOU decided to get one: Remember: Bread=garbage. Feed it dog food.
I think I might try the towel suggestion. He isn’t gonna like it though, and I don’t have any mealworms to placate him with.
The very model of a modern armchair general:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
What is this I don’t even
slignot:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
@TLC, the pupil movement is called pinpointing or flashing. It’s a common sign of interest or excitement. It’s easier to see in some birds than others, based on how contrastingly the eyes are colored. (Eclectus vs. African Grey for example) The sheer amount of movement that they can exercise is nuts to me.
I remember a video you linked a while ago with Jack talking a bit; it was awesome. Beaky isn’t a huge talker in terms of vocabulary, but he uses the words he knows frequently and with great enthusiasm (read: volume). He* also has a number of non-word sounds he learned to use.
Towelling to restrain during grooming isn’t too hard once you get the hang of it, but you’ll probably have to learn to surprise him about it somewhat. We have to behave as if everything is routine and normal while taking him in an enclosed room, then put a towel over him and scoop him up. If he catches sight of the towel, he starts begging us to do it by trying every “cute” behavior we reward at once. He tends to be super snuggly afterward as well, sort a “please don’t do it again, I’ll be good” reaction that’s rather heartrending.
I’ve not looked any closer at a starling’s beak than a few feet, but I can well believe how strong a force they can apply. It’s amazing how strong a beak can be at prying. We discovered very early that one of Beaky’s favorite toys (bells are best frenemies) had to be regularly repaired with pliers. It’s amazing to watch a bird stick its head inside a bell and come out playing with the loose clapper.
What has always fascinated me is tongues. A parrot’s tongue is quite dexterous, and reminds me almost of a thumb.
*I don’t actually know Beaky’s sex, since they’re not sexually dimorphic, but based on his size compared to a sexed female I’ve seen as well as his comparative eye color, we decided he’s probably male. Never started laying after 6-7 years, so I’m sticking with male.
davem:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Just watched first episode of David Attenborough’s latest – Frozen Planet. Had to stop myself saying ‘wow’ every few minutes. Maybe the best yet.
slignot:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
Missing a word in there. He begs us *not* to trim his toes.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
I don’t know Jack’s sex either. Starlings can’t really be visually sexed, so short of a DNA test I’ll never know if ‘Jack’ is really ‘Jacqueline’. But ‘he’ is about the same age as your Beaky, and no eggs, so I’m gonna go with male too.
I know what you mean about the parrot tongues. I’ve always liked how parrots are highly intelligent animals, but lacking hands with opposable thumbs ‘make do’ with weird beak/foot combinations.
Oh, I wish. Either Beaky is a particular sweetheart, or starlings are just not like that. If Jack knows I’m trying to hold him down for something, he’ll make a fight out of it. He’ll make me chase him around the room and try to corner him. I dunno if anyone here knows what a starling’s alarm call sounds like, but it’s a pretty horrible, almost ‘insectlike’ rusty squawk.
I suppose, unlike parrots, no matter how much he likes people, being grasped will always feel like ‘predation’ to his mind. I wouldn’t be surprised if that defensiveness is one of the factors that contribute to making starlings such a successful invasive species.
fatpie42:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
To be as fair as possible to Deepak, he wouldn’t see that as a failure to answer the question. For him that is a very satisfying answer. It’s just that sensible people are rather less impressed.
That pretty much sums up his career, doesn’t it?
Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
fatpie42,
you are way too generous. You think that he honestly thinks that he has given a good answer, and not fabricated one which will leave his followers happy and paying.
Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
It starts in Australia on Sunday evening. Can’t wait – though am slightly baffled by the fact the promos feature awful electronic music completely at odds with the images on the screen.
slignot:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
He’s a hand-raised hookbill, I think that’s not uncharacteristic, although behavior obviously varies from individual to individual. Handraised parrots can be incredibly snuggly, although some species are less prone to it than others. Amazons are known as more talkers than teddy-bears.
To be fair, he also has some overbonding issues and will not play nice with everyone. Also, if he’s on someone he likes a lot, it’s not a good idea to try to get him to step up. Nipping is the normal reaction, often with an angry squawk.
It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s simply the different base behavior in a starling that makes them more cautious with their human flock; they seem far more nervous of predators than parrots, who can be incredibly bold and brazen.
When Beaks is being especially snuggly, puffy and petting us (yes, he pets humans, it’s adorable), I sometimes think about how strange it is that a prey-species so small could bond so powerfully to giant scary predator-eyed humans. It doesn’t make sense.
Oh FSM, the alarm calls. He can render us nearly deaf if he’s close during one (or the rare in your ear screams). I don’t have unfiltered access right now, but if you search for nanday alarm calls, you’ll understand. How such a noise can come out of such a small creature is beyond me.
The Sailor:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:02 pm
All the news I read about the Occupy Oakland police riot only includes statements from the cops.
And of course it looks like the place was trashed, the cops trashed it when they attacked peaceful, sleeping protesters at 4:30 in the morning.
This shit pisses me off.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
There are nail clippers available for dogs that have a sort of guard across the gap you need to stick the nail through that prevents it going through more than a set distance – so that it’s not physically possible to clip off more than a small amount. They might not be the right size for a bird, of course – is there anything similar in their size, I wonder, or would it be possible to modify dog clippers (e.g. by adding a shim to thicken the guard) so as to shorten the length of nail you can clip off?
imthegenieicandoanything:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
Cheeses!
I haven’t been here since literally the first offically named TET.
You people ENJOY this (since it is clearly not meant to accomplish the smallest goal)?
It’s no harm to me, so go on, but I call bullshit on this when it’s done where I can’t escape or ignore it.
Yuck.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Slignot: I just looked up Nandays. Beautiful.
My bird is also handraised. I think it’s the only ethical way to keep a bird as a companion, really. Unless of course it’s just a small flock of zebra finches or canaries or something, and they have each other to bond with.
With budgies it really bugs me, the way they’re sold as ‘impulse pets’ pretty much the same way hamsters, gerbils, and sadly rats too are sold, and I think most pet budgies aren’t getting the proper care and attention they need. An animal that lives in 100 strong flocks in the wild, cannot be kept alone in a cage with just a mirror to interact with, and be expected to be mentally healthy. On top of that, most budgies do not appear to be handraised, so it’s not even like their human owners can step in and fill that need. At least not without more patience than most pet owners are willing to invest.
I wouldn’t say the effect of the starling alarm call is ‘deafening’, so much as ‘nails-on-a-chalkboard’ unpleasant.
He can do deafening though. He has this song he sings, the exact same way every time. He’ll be twittering pleasantly in this song, and then he’ll suddenly burst out with this powerful shriek that seems engineered to be as loud and obnoxious as possible. A combination of ‘tantruming toddler’ and ‘the raptors from Jurassic Park.’
At that point I usually tell him “Shut up, Jack!”, which doesn’t shut him up, but at least usually gets him talking instead of screaming.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
You are correct, we do enjoy having a thread where we can talk about our interests and just let the conversation flow without feeling obligated to stick to a ‘topic’.
What’s your point? You hate seeing people converse freely about things that interest them?
Standard Curve:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Help! I am considering a move to Nashville for a job. Please talk me out of it or into it!
changeable moniker:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=imthegenieicandoanything
Comment by imthegenieicandoanything blocked. [unkill][show comment]
zugswang:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
opposablethumbs:
I use a Dremel rotary tool for my dog. It’s been a lot less stressful for me than using clippers, and it’s not very noisy, so he doesn’t get spooked by it.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
What the hell are you even talking about? Do you mean having a TET at all? Because it actually does achieve a goal. Small talk and off-topic conversation takes place here, preventing it from taking over other threads while still allowing us to get to know each other better and help each other out.
Rey Fox:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:58 pm
#276: What?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Here’s a link to HuffPo (I know, I know, and here’s a link to the Guardian. Both of them have decent coverage.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Also, KTVU has been doing good work documenting what’s going on on the ground.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Actually, there is a way. On every web browser currently available, there’s this little button in the top right hand corner. It should look like an X and light up red when you scroll the mouse over it. Click this button, and TET should disappear off your computer screen.
kohldamunga:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
What else is new? I think his latest NYT bestseller is new.
Benjamin "Durr Hurr" Geiger:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:07 pm
Actually, it might be on the top left (Macs and some Unix GUIs).
Just being pedantic.
myeck waters:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
zugswang #281
What are you using as the business end?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Hey PZ! Next time we accidentally Pharyngulate a friendly site (which I haven’t seen us do recently, but I know we have from time to time) I think it would be funny if you would put up the video for “I Crush Everything.” It’s about a giant squid who crushes everything he loves. Yes, I realize it’s quite old, but … so… anyway I’m sleepy.
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
CC – I just downloaded the Artifical Heart album, so been listening to Jonathan Coulton almost non-stop lately (except for when I’m listening to Gotye non-stop) :) I heard him say in an interview that I Crush Everything is his favorite song that he’s written, and that he didn’t realize until long after he wrote it that it was autobiographical.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Well that’s… kinda heartbreaking.
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:29 pm
Well, hello yourself! You see, people are what we call social animals. We like to cooperate and work in groups at times, and learn things from each other. It’s called being social. And people have this thing called language, which is how we can communicate and be social, and we have this thing called the internet, which facilitates communication across distances. Perhaps you can look up information on people and learn some more about how people interact with each other!
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
True. And the running theme through Artificial Heart is heartbreak and the complications of relationships (“Today with your wife” makes me just ache). But he seems to be pretty happy now.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
I have to give a twenty-minute talk… followed by a debriefing in which people ask me questions and then comment on my presentation style. On a “work in progress.”
*sob*
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Oops, didn’t link.
Today with your wife
Sili:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Via LanguageLog:
New meme.
Now never say octopi again.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
What’s the best way to get PZ’s attention?
This troll here needs an insta-ban-hammering. No 3 post rule required. (Don’t look unless you want an example of especially nasty cunting.)
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Yeah, yeah, whatever. I suggest you go away. Decaying porcupine optional.
Carlie:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
Alethea – he responds fairly quickly to things brought to his attention via email (I don’t understand how, with the volume he gets!) – make the subject line something attention-grabbing for vileness control and put a link to the comment in the email and he should notice it soon.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
*hugs* Best of luck. I know it can be nerve-wracking.
Walton:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
*looks* Yuck. Yeah, that was pretty nasty. (Probably H*ggle or one of his followers, incognito.)
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
Alethea:
Email.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 26th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
Ugh, this shit’s getting creepy. I mean, I know from others who’ve been following this stuff for longer than I have that it passed ‘creepy’ a long time ago, but I’m starting to realize it with mine own eyes now.
Do they have no self awareness whatsoever? Do they have no idea how it makes them look? I can understand being ‘shocking’, I can understand being rude and crude, hell, I AM rude and crude most of the time, but there’s a fine line between being a ‘lovable li’l bastard’ and…. Hoggle’s ilk.
There’s nothing more I can really say, that hasn’t been said far better than I could by people who understand these things far better than I do.
Well, I can say this at least: Hoggle claims to be standing up for ‘free speech’, but he doesn’t realize that he’s actually making a pretty good (on the surface) argument AGAINST it. I mean is this what you’re supposed to do with your freedom of speech?
Alethea H. Claw:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
Ta, email sent.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:02 am
Me too.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 12:13 am
Alright, here goes. Dug out some nail clippers, let the bird out of the cage, now I’m just letting him play around a bit before I start trying to get those claws.
I have a feeling, with beak trimming at least, that the reason he eventually settles down and lets me clip it is because he notices it works better afterwards. So maybe after the initial hurdle, he’ll make the same connection with his feet?
Doubtful, but there’s an outside chance.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:16 am
And it’s gone. How does PZ do it so quickly? I suppose it’s something to do with tentacles.
zugswang:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:18 am
myeck waters:
It’s the rounded sanding bit, the 952 one, though I’ve also used the 932.
kruse:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:20 am
How much more popular is chopra than pz? What is the ratio of his twitter followers to deepaks? One might conclude that chopras memes are much more widespread and successful. Just natural selection, and survival of fittest. Die, loser. You ain’t the future. There are better than you waiting to be born.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:22 am
Kruse:
Yes indeed. You might want to get right on that dying business, no need to waste time here.
Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women):
October 27th, 2011 at 12:24 am
kruse – why do we care? Go away.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:26 am
kruse, I’m not impressed by your style of argumentation. “I have more Twitter followers, so I must be right!” Gee, where have I heard that before…
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 12:28 am
Hahahahahahaha, I suppose you do have a point. Mindless parasites of various kinds are extremely successful in nature. Doesn’t mean your point isn’t stupid though.
Got it done. Why so quickly? Well, it wasn’t as bad as I at first thought.
None of the restraint worked. As soon as I tried, Jack started making the most piteous sounds, sounds I generally interpret as begging. Very sad. I couldn’t do that to him.
The solution turned out to be fairly simple: The bird will not be restrained, so don’t try to restrain him. And so I was able to sneak up on him while he was standing and carefully but quickly nip the problem claws.
One cannot control a starling without somehow hurting it, even if just emotionally/mentally. One must work with the bird.
Let me know if anyone’s getting sick of the starling talk.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:32 am
:D
Let me just put something out there: my ex (the good and decent one whom I’m still friends with) used to call me Starling, because his sister shares my first name. Your starling posts make me smile.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:34 am
PZ,
if I may make a suggestion:
next time, please post the Chopra stuff in an own blog post, that way the trolls will stay away from TET…
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:36 am
pelamun:
The trolls don’t stay away anyway. It doesn’t matter what PZ posts. Besides, the content is for us. There’s virtually nothing PZ could post that would keep trolls away.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:39 am
Oh yes, and I for one would welcome a post about the Chopra nonsense. But I had the impression that due to the video above, we’ve had more than our share of trolls on TET today…
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:39 am
And where is that?
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 12:49 am
Thanks :)
So I take it there might be a tiny sliver of a metaphor in there?
Aspies tend to go on and on obliviously about our interests, so I’d hope I’m not doing that here.
Part of it, I think, is that I may possibly be the foremost leading expert on starling care on Pharyngula. :p
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:52 am
A few billion people know the pope, who has covered up for thousands of child rapists, encouraged policies that cause women to die in scores of countries, and heads an organization that takes billions of dollars from people and uses the money for pomp and frippery.
Pretty much nobody knows Zurana Horton, a pregnant woman in Brooklyn who died after throwing herself onto a group of kids to shield them from a rogue gunman on top of a nearby roof.
So what the fuck does popularity have to do with anything useful?
sandiseattle:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:55 am
So scanned by some OCCUPY stuff above.
So all these OCCUPY X protests going on, I don’t see any good coming out of them except of course for giving comedians material. It seem our local OCCUPY has died down some. It didnt even make the news today. (Big news here is the traffic crunch with the Viaduct closed. )
Who’s annoyed at them?
Who’s in support of them?
Speak up.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:58 am
Maybe a little.
I thought that was what you might be concerned about. But I personally like it. I sometimes think that’s one of the best aspects of the fact that TET has so many spectrum folks: we get lots of long long posts about things that people have actual expertise in. And unlike in person, if I’m actually not interested or don’t have time, I can scroll past! It’s great.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:58 am
pelamun:
There have been dozens of posts about Chopra. If you missed them, go back to Pharyngula sciblogs and search.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:59 am
Ok prepare for some boo hooing
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Ok, new contender for dumbest thing said on the internet today.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:10 am
Regardless of what one thinks of their goals, I’m in support of their right to protest, and I strongly oppose the horrific police violence against protestors we’ve been seeing over the past couple of weeks. The frequency of police brutality in this country, and the impunity with which it is committed, is absolutely horrifying.
=====
QFT.
zugswang:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:11 am
#249 Cannabinaceae:
As far as I know, it’s not a real thing. I was suggesting mobbing town hall meetings and the like, going to political functions and air your grievances or show your collective discontent. Something less long term, and more discrete.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 1:16 am
That’s good to know CC.
I wish more people knew about starlings as pets. Tons of people find lost baby starlings and attempt to ‘care for them’. This could be the start of a beautiful friendship, but through lack of knowledge typically ends up in heartbreak.
You cannot raise a baby insectivorous bird on bread soaked in water. Without a huge protein source, bones and feathers don’t develop properly. Earthworms would seem like a good ‘natural’ diet, but often contain intestinal parasites. Both will lead to a slow death.
Dog food soaked in water. Get it nice and mushy, and then force it down the throat, for as long as the bird continues begging. Can’t emphasize it enough. Dog food contains the proper protein and best mimics the diet their parents would feed them.
There are probably a few sites about pet starlings still around, but last I checked, they were OLD, hadn’t been updated in years, and most of the links were broken.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:19 am
Caine
No, I know, and I didn’t miss them. It was only a suggestion after all..
Sili:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:19 am
Hmmmm. This spinning thing is addicting.
I rather suck at it still, but I did just manage to fix a broken thread.
My spindle seems to be a tad unbalanced, though. I perhaps I’m just twirling it too hard.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:19 am
GAHHH I wish we had known that.
We hand-raised a baby bird from the time when it didn’t have feathers until it flew away. We fed it on cut up worms. It was the most disgusting thing in the universe and I’m still nauseous thinking about it. I still can’t look at earthworms. Ugh.
Good to know.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:24 am
Holy shit Carlie, that story is great but the amazingly racist and misogynistic crap in the comments just made me very very sad.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 1:27 am
CC: Well, worms are risky, but if yours grew up and flew away then it obviously worked. I have heard that roundworm infections in baby birds are fatal and horrific to look at. Also it might depend on species- the local robins appear to raise their clutches almost exclusively on earthworms.
DEFINITELY DEFINITELY never feed baby birds bread though. It’s bad all around. Almost no nutritional content.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:32 am
We thought he might have been a robin, but he didn’t have the red breast, he was all just the same shade of grey-brown. He was pretty, though. And yes, it might have been luck. But I desperately wish we’d known dogfood would work. That would have saved us all kinds of horrible horrible grossness.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:33 am
We fed our found bird watered down cat food. Seemed to work. It grew and flew.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:34 am
I really like birds actually.
Chas:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:35 am
He prays for a new science. Hah. Pray in one hand and s*** in the other and see which fills up first
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 1:37 am
Robins don’t fledge with red breasts. Fledgeling robins are speckled, with speckled orange breasts. Camoflage while they learn to fly well, I assume.
Similarly, starlings don’t fledge in their nice glossy irridescent black with white ‘stars’. They fledge into uniform grey-brown colored birds, with a bit of a black spot from eye to beak.
The stars appear one by one after the bird’s been fledged for a few months.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 1:43 am
Algernon: I heard cat food works too, but all I read suggested dog food was better. I imagine it’s the protein that counts, and protein was what all my sources stressed to me. Must have a near constant flow of protein to support that rapid growth and muscle development.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:50 am
Back in England, we had a robin in our garden a couple of years ago! And a baby robin in spring. It was so cute. :-)
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:51 am
Dog food probably is better, for all I know. We just went with cat food because it was on hand. The bird reacted well to it though. It turned out to be a mockingbird. I think you can get in trouble for holding onto those in this state. But that bird flew away a while ago. Funny thing is, he stuck around our house for a long time (we had feeders and things for birds anyway but we always knew him because he’d stand on the railing out back and do the same little dance he did right before he started flying).
I miss having birds around, but I feel conflicted about caged birds and I probably can’t give them the home they’d need. Plus, I sadly have some one living with me now who drastically shapes my life for the time being.
Is what it is.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:51 am
That sounds right. And looking up the pictures of young starlings on google, it does look like Peanut. I have one picture of myself with him in my lap, when I was like ten and had giant round glasses.
Hee.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 1:56 am
CC: They say handraised starlings can’t be released, they never really integrate into wild flocks, but I dunno. I think imprinting in birds is a bit more plastic than most people think. I got my chickens at a few days old, well after they had imprinted on their chicken mother, and the one I got a few days earlier than the other (Lucy) has definitely re-imprinted on me. She follows me around if I’m outside, and the other hen follows her.
Similarly, I got Jack after his eyes had opened, all my sources said that the window for imprinting has passed, but here he is, an animal that looks towards people for companionship.
I can definitely understand the temptation to release a just fledged starling though. They go through a ‘phase’.
slignot:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:07 am
@TLC, glad that it worked without a lot of trouble, although I’m jealous you were allowed to get near your bird with trimmers. Beaky does not like scissors, clippers, aluminum foil, many plastic objects among others. And parrots can act unpleasantly when someone they like is near something they are afraid of: they bite that someone to make them flee.
So if spouse or I were holding trimmers, he will bite not only the trimmers but also our hands in a desperate attempt to get them away. They have a strange fight or flight reaction sometimes. You also have to do a decent amount of aggression prevention when doing initial socialization.
From what I remember of the family hand-feeding baby cockatiels when I was little, the tricky part was being careful to not obstruct air passageways when they were tiny. Starlings seem like they would be wonderfully fun pets.
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:07 am
Algernon – yeah. I read it at feministe, where it was pointed out that if it had been a white woman on the Upper East Side, it would have been the only thing in the news for days. Black woman who already has a lot of kids in Brooklyn? Not even worth a mention.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 2:17 am
Slignot: That’s interesting behavior. In Jack’s case, he seems all too aware of what they are and how they work. If I show it to him, he barely reacts, and definitely not with fear, but as soon as I make like I’m about to clip something, he knows what’s up.
I try to make a point of never trying to ‘trick’ him. Betrayal of trust and all that. If I’m gonna clip something, I show him those clippers and tell him what’s going to happen. He probably doesn’t understand, but I kind of think he does. He’s surprisingly aware of other things, and tries to use words and sounds in context (like making a lighter click whenever he sees me rolling a joint).
slignot:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:29 am
@Algernon, I feel fairly concerned about the way that inexpensive parrots are treated, because as @TLC noted, they are sold as impulse purchases along with more short-lived rodents.
People who get solitary birds without meaning to treat them as truly companion animals make me terribly frustrated. So long as you put in the time to mentally and emotionally stimulate their lives, it is rewarding for all involved.
This seems very similar to how Beaky likes to play with cat/ferret toys and people. There’s something wonderfully goofy about conures. The belly game is something I never would have believed until I saw/experienced it.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:32 am
1. Already you notice that the mainstream media is not talking about the deficit anymore, but rather the jobs crisis and economic inequality.
2. Now that police brutality is taking place, people’s awareness of the steady erosion of first amendment rights and the militarization of the police force is being raised.
3. Various economic and political policies are getting more attention and now have a better chance of being put into place: campaign finance reform, regulation of the financial sector, raising taxes on capital gains and financial speculation, shifting from GDP to GPI-type measurements, etc.
More democratic participation by citizens is always a good thing.
Unless you’re an authoritarian.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:34 am
Tonight, I should be writing my paper that’s due on Friday. Instead, I’m watching an obscure and pointless YouTube video of Prince Charles arriving at a railway station in Stoke-on-Trent. (And, now, posting here to tell you all about it.) I can’t help wondering whether this level of procrastination is normal.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:36 am
I’ve never raised a baby bird; but when we had a family of robins living in our garden one winter, it turned out that they really liked freeze-dried mealworms. (Which were expensive, and rather unappetizing-looking, but they kept the robins plump and happy through a very snowy winter, so it was definitely worth it.)
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:41 am
If you use me as your standard, then yes. Yes it is.
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Lawrence O’Donnell is about to interview a protester from Occupy Oakland on MSNBC.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 2:48 am
Walton, I seem to recall that you’re from the UK, if so your robins are not the same as our American robins by a long shot.
Your robins are Erithacus rubecula,
ours are Turdus migratorius, which I believe is Latin for ‘migrating turd’.
The European robin is certainly an appealing little bird though.
One time, we had a nest of steller’s jays hatch out and fledge directly above our back deck. My brothers and I just happened to be sitting in the sun out there on the day and moment the babies left the nest.
There was a runty one who was clearly less developed than its siblings, and it was having trouble. You’d think the others wouldn’t care, but they always stopped and called to the one lagging behind in the treetops, waiting for it to catch up. It fell at one point, and snagged its claw on a tree and hung there upside down for a bit, but just as we decided to help it, it righted itself and caught up.
Katrina:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:50 am
Better to keep the starlings indoors, anyway. Outside (in North America) they are a nuisance and an invasive species. They out-compete and kill our native bird populations.
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:51 am
*hug* for Classical Cypher. I hope your presentation goes well.
-
TLC, you can post about The Care and Feeding of Starlings all day long, as far as I’m concerned; I find it very interesting. If it begins to bore me, well, I know how the scroll wheel works. :)
-
Nice one, Carlie.
-
sandiseattle: the Tea Party rallies should be allowed to be considered to express the dominant opinion by default? Fuck that noise!
Plus, those things that Sally Strange said at 349.
-
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:54 am
No.
This has been another episode of “Short Answers to Strange Questions.” Seriously? Watching a video of a royal
parasitearriving on mass-transit to prove he is just regular folk just may be the most egregious form of procrastination ever.Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:54 am
D: ;_;
Ours just flew off one day! We took him outside, he flew off (which he had never done before), he didn’t come back, and since our intention had been to raise him until he was able to fly away, I just figured that was okay!
I hope he was fine :(
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:55 am
For good measure, here’s a ten-minute-long video of Princess Michael of Kent* putting some flowers in a pot and talking to some Russians about gardening.
I’m now giggling inanely, and trying to remember what I’m supposed to be doing.
(*Who I mentioned lately in the context of baboons.)
Rawnaeris:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:56 am
Ok, I only got to skim the last 100 posts or so…
1) Thanks to Demetrius and Caine for the Greasemonkey script help for Opera.
2) Contrary to my promise that I made earlier to try and keep up, I’m likely gonna be unable too most of the weekend.
As 3) My mother was in a wreck that totaled her car today. Dumb *insert favorite insult here* female ran a red light and took the front end off of my mom’s car. A foot more to the right and the other driver would have t-boned Mom directly in the driver’s side door. Thankfully, the other driver has admitted fault, so any medical bills and car replacement bills my mom has are supposed to be covered by insurance.
and 4) I get to play ‘hunt for new job in same company’ as my contract does not go up for another year and my current department is, to borrow a phrase from Eddie Izzard, “Slowly collapsing like a flan in a cupboard.”
I saw a few other people are going through crap right now too, good luck, chin up, all that.
Have a good night all.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 3:00 am
CC: Mine flew off one day, but he came back three days later on the verge of death. He chose the heat of summer to pull it off, and his beak was caked in some kind of green sludge. But mine did it well after fledging. I think, like I said, that there’s a good chance birds are a little more plastic than we think with their imprinting.
That was part of my reasoning too. In the wild, they’re invasive and pushing beautiful cavity-nesting native species out, but as pets they’re delightfully clever and very interactive, and as skilled talkers as most parrots. They are a bit difficult though, and clearly aren’t equivalent to parrots in several key ways.
I wonder if part of the reason starlings are more defensive to being touched and ‘cuddled’ than parrots is that by way of their beak design, a starling is less well armed and thus less able to defend itself? A starling’s beak is a precision tool, but a parrot’s beak is a precision powertool.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:07 am
Now that’s not nice.
To the baboons, I mean.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:15 am
Cheap shot. I was referring to the fact that when researchers in Botswana discovered that social rank in female baboons is inherited from mother to daughter, Princess Michael reportedly visited them in Botswana, and is reported by the New York Times as having said:
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:17 am
The science segment on the Daily Show just now was fantastic.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:25 am
Yes. Yes it was. In my defense, however, when anyone leaves themselves that open for a cheap shot and no one takes the shot it ain’t fair to either party.
Now go back and write your paper. And be brilliant. And enjoy.
Have a good night, Walton. And the rest of the horde. I’m heading off to bed.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:29 am
The title “Princess Michael” freaks me out a bit. She’s the woman with no name. Could be anyone. Lord Lucan? Amelia Earhart? Mrs Ralph Hapschatt?
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:44 am
Her maiden name is Baronin Marie Christine Anna Agnes Hedwig Ida von Reibnitz.
The reason she is “Princess Michael”, and not “Princess Marie-Christine”, is because she is not a princess in her own right. Under the archaic system of protocol still used in Britain, the style “Princess [firstname]” is only correct for a princess who is born into the royal family (such as Princess Anne, or Princess Beatrice of York). By contrast, a woman who marries a prince can use her husband’s name and title, but does not become a princess in her own right. Hence why Kate Middleton is now styled “HRH The Duchess of Cambridge”; if Prince William had not been given a dukedom, she would have been “HRH Princess William of Wales”. It is incorrect to call her “Princess Catherine”.
(By contrast, a man who marries a princess does not automatically receive any title or style at all, unless the Sovereign expressly confers one on him. Princess Anne’s ex-husband, Captain Mark Phillips, and her current husband, Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence, have both remained commoners; and Princess Anne’s children Peter and Zara Phillips, although in the line of succession to the throne, do not have royal titles. Likewise, Prince Philip would not automatically have been entitled to any British title by virtue of marrying Princess Elizabeth, as she then was; George VI created him Duke of Edinburgh after the marriage in 1947, and the Queen made him a Prince of the United Kingdom after she succeeded to the throne.)
Rare exceptions are made to the general rules. For instance, when Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, died in 1974, his widow, the Duchess of Gloucester, received special permission from the Queen to style herself “Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester”. (Otherwise, she would have been known as “HRH The Dowager Duchess of Gloucester”, as the widow of a Duke.)
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:53 am
Alethea,
Princess Michael came up the last time or so when Walton had one of his monarchy love fests.
And the comments she made about the baboons, dripping with entitlement and privilege. She should have stayed there to live with the baboons if they reflect their royal lifestyle so much..
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:56 am
It seems that my post at 368 came too late…
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:56 am
Oh, I doubt she meant it entirely seriously. (I don’t know her personally, of course, but she strikes me as someone with a sense of humour.) I just thought it was an amusing anecdote; I was reminded of it a few subThreads ago when people were talking about baboon behaviour.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 3:57 am
Hey, don’t assume the baboons want her.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:04 am
If you want a more depressing monarchy-related story, I found out yesterday that a referendum to legalize abortion in Liechtenstein failed last month. Hereditary Prince Alois*, being a devout Catholic, had reportedly threatened to veto the bill if it was passed. As it turned out, the public voted against it by a narrow majority of 514 votes… even so, Alois’ anti-choice idiocy has destroyed a little of my faith in the institution of monarchy.
(*The heir-apparent to the throne; in Liechtenstein, the eldest son of the reigning monarch is styled “Hereditary Prince”, broadly equivalent to the titles of Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall in the UK. His father, Hans-Adam II, the reigning Prince of Liechtenstein, passed on responsibility for the governance of the principality to Hereditary Prince Alois in 2004.)
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:15 am
(Actually, come to think of it, I’m not sure why German Wikipedia lists her title as Baronin and not Freiin. My understanding is that Freiherr is the usual equivalent to “Baron” in German, and that the female equivalent is either Freifrau for the wife of a Baron, or Freiin for a Baroness by birth. Do any of the German-speakers here know the answer?)
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:15 am
Come on, it’s Liechtenstein, what did you expect.
To cheer you up, I read in the Spiegel dated October 10, that now that Polish citizens have full movement in the EU, including Germany, they have found that Polish people have no left their permanent positions in droves to replace them by temp jobs in Germany. Poland has had a boom of sorts, and companies have been raising salaries, so staying in Poland has become an attractive option for many.
Those who consider moving to Germany are the unlearned, who might earn 2 EUR an hour in Poland and 4 EUR across the border. They compete with immigrants from non-EU countries for those jobs, as most Germans aren’t interested in them.
This being a Spiegel story, of course they didn’t reference any actual studies/statistics, but nonetheless a positive story in favour of freedom of movement.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:20 am
Yes I knew a Freiherr von Bavaria, his sister was a Freiin (but her name would be stricken from the Gotha should she marry a commoner).Back then he wasn’t married yet, so I don’t know firsthand, but I think Freifrau is correct.*) Their ancestors were present at Charlemagne’s coronation, or so they claimed…
*) “Frau” used to be the term for “woman of high birth”, thus the term “Freifrau” vis-a-vis “Freiherr”.
The normal term for “woman” used to be “Weib” (cognate to “wife”), but has now become a pejorative.
Thus
Weib – Mann
Frau – Herr
has become
Frau – Mann
Dame – Herr
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:23 am
Probably the German Wikipedia editors were translating from the English, and Baroness became Baronin. That’s probably wrong, as her father is “Freiherr von Reibnitz”.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:28 am
FROM Bavaria, not a person called von Bayern.
Several of my friends though took an Ancient Greek class together with one of the Hollenzollern guys (the born-again Christian one). Apparently he is an elementary school teacher in the country side and can be found in the telephone book, under P, as in von Preußen.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:37 am
Note to self: don’t poke the Walton.
Seriously, some obscure Liechtenstein princeling’s position on abortion has shaken you? When any number of utterly ridiculous monarchs throughout history – not to mention good old Charlie-boy’s woo and homeopathy, and the little prince’s unfortunate nazi dress-up games – have all left you unmoved.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:41 am
unfortunately, he is not that obscure, he is the head of state and a monarch with absolutist tendencies, probably the monarch with most powers in the Western world, except for the pope.
Also probably corrupt, or at least nepotistic, given that his family owns the biggest bank(s) in Liechtenstein, though I don’t know the details, so I don’t want to go out on a limb here..
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:46 am
Sorry, I haven’t been paying attention and just now discovered the “sshhh” thread. So this Boeckmann chap is elevatorguy ? So just some dude who hates Watson and spread the message to McGraw ?
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:51 am
Au contraire. Liechtenstein is a Principality, so the Sovereign Prince is the head of state. Hereditary Prince Alois is his son and heir, and, since 2004, has been de facto regent.
Apart from the Vatican City, the Liechtenstein monarchy is the most powerful in Europe. The Prince of Liechtenstein’s powers were expanded in a set of constitutional amendments passed by referendum a few years ago. So – unlike most European monarchs – he has real political power, and what he says on this subject matters somewhat. (Up to a point, since, of course, women in Liechtenstein can travel to get an abortion in neighbouring Switzerland or Austria.)
Generally I’m a big fan of Liechtenstein, so this was a little bit of a setback. But the population of Liechtenstein is almost-entirely-Catholic and, by all accounts, generally conservative and religious, so I guess it isn’t surprising. (In this case, the population voted against legalizing abortion, so it wasn’t left up to the Prince to decide.) And, of course, much the same situation on abortion exists in Ireland, which has been a republic for quite a long time.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:51 am
rorschach,
how was your event? Was the discussion useful, or a lot of mansplaining going on?
I wonder if we’ll ever know who EG was. But the discussion on that thread was helpful for me because it made me rethink my position re Stef McGraw. Apparently she had been posting on a CFI blog, and there had been goings-on behind the scenes amongst the CFI student people, and a lot of accusations in the direction of RW, though they never spoke to her directly.
At least that’s what I got out of it, YMMV.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:55 am
“Absolutist” is overstating it somewhat; Liechtenstein is still a constitutional monarchy with an elected parliament and regular referendums. But it’s true to say that the Prince has real political power, unlike most European monarchs. (Generally I see this as a good thing, but this case doesn’t paint him in a good light: although it’s also true, evidently, that the majority of the voters agreed with his position.)
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:01 am
Walton, I said “tendencies”.
I can’t find anything good about the place: it’s a tax haven making money off of European tax evaders, a stiflingly conservative place with an idiot for a prince (and also I prefer the sea over the mountains, but that’s just me).
There was a series once on the Vaterland, one of the two main newspapers, about “Liechtensteiners aboard”, if you read between the lines you could sense that they were glad to have gotten out of the place. Oh, and that makes the place even more conservative, because Liechtensteiners abroad can’t vote….
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:01 am
Yes. Prince Hans-Adam II owns the LGT private banking group, and has an estimated fortune of about US$4 billion, making him the richest monarch in Europe. They have, reportedly, been in some trouble for facilitating tax avoidance.
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:01 am
Well, the funny thing is, there aren’t so many options, and I wonder whether PZ actually knows. Probably really doesn’t matter by now. Although maybe he could get some lucrative interview deals out of it.
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:05 am
So what was all that talk about Justicar being EG?
(I’ve been away from this for quite a while now. Can you tell?)
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:06 am
This issue has completey destroyed the reputation of Liechtenstein in Germany, most things people associate with it, if anything, is tax evasion. The shitstorm comes up every few years, sometimes they get into trouble together with Switzerland, but Switzerland is big enough that is known for other things, amongst them being a destination for Germans who can’t find work in Germany, or for Germans who didn’t get into medical school at home.
But the then finance minister was giving speeches about “sending in the cavalry”, greatly upsetting the Swiss and the Liechtensteiners..
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:08 am
(Was that a Spartacus thing?)
chigau (meh):
October 27th, 2011 at 5:08 am
On a new topic:
a youtube video
Rebuild a Jeep under 4 minutes
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:08 am
I like the mountains. I’ve never been to Liechtenstein, but I’ve visited the Vorarlberg and Tyrol (in summer; I’ve never been during the ski season) and I’ve always liked that part of the world.
(Though I couldn’t move there, since I don’t really speak German; I may have a detailed knowledge of German titles of nobility, but these are of limited usefulness in daily conversation.)
=====
Unlikely; I thought Justicar said he was gay?
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:09 am
where was that? Was he in Dublin? If he were EG, that would explain a lot of things, but where did you hear that?
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:10 am
Have a look at Liechtenstein immigration procedures, it’ll be almost impossible for you to move there, unless you wind up being the Prince’s personal lawyer…
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:11 am
In other news : Thai Capital Warned “Massive” Water on the Way
And there was such bad flooding already when I was there 2 weeks ago !
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:16 am
According to this website,
they draw permanent residencies by lot.
28 each year for EU citizens who have a job waiting for them,
and
8 for a residency without a work permit.
I like to call it the Alpine version of the Green Card Lottery.
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:33 am
I think that, too – though that alone doesn’t disqualify him.
But read on.
Hold on, now. Let’s not start any unfounded rumors here. When the whole thing blew up and out of control around the time of the Dawkins comment, I (think!) I read something about Justicar admitting to being EG. On his blog.
There are four distinct possibilities here:
1. I misread it at the time.
2. I’m misremembering it now.
3. He did say it, but wasn’t being serious, or wasn’t being honest and was trying to make a point or was just trying to screw with Rebecca, or he was joining a wave of “I am Spartacus!” claims.
4. He did say it, and he is EG.
Be aware that I am not in possession of ANY special knowledge about this. That’s why I was asking, not telling. I’m assuming that I know less about this than you guys. If you have no idea what I’m talking about, then the truth of the matter is most likely some combination of possibilities #1 and #2.
(A quick Google reveals that some guy on Justicar’s blog posted a comment in which he claimed to be EG, but it was clearly bullshit and a low blow at RW. Pffft. A poor use of the Spartacus ploy.)
Alethea H. Claw:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:37 am
Heh, in my world the entire NATION of Liechtenstein, and all its princes, paupers and profiteers, are obscure. I can’t even think where it is without googling. I know about Luxemburg and Andorra and Vatican City and Monaco. I can definitely name a lot more famous Belgians than Liechtensteiners. Liechtensteinians? Lichens? Whatevs.
So hey, you learn something every day. I now have a much more negative view of the place.
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:42 am
Justicar was not EG. He’s gay and his obsession with the pic that supposedly proves Ms. Watson made the encounter up do not make sense if he was the person who approached her back in Dublin.
There’s no reason to start or spread rumors about who EG could be. It really does not matter.
Philip Legge:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:50 am
I would very much doubt Boeckmann is EG; he used to be the head of the UNIFI student group at the University of Northern Iowa. And like Justicar claims, Boeckmann’s posted that he’s gay on the blog.
Rorschach, how many people were still at the bar when you left? There can’t have been that many going on at 3 am, can there? (The conference attendance looked like it was in the hundreds, judging from video of the Q & A sessions.)
Alethea H. Claw:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:59 am
I don’t particularly want to out EG, even if we can. I think it would only muddy the waters more, and probably result in even more vitriol for Rebecca.
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:01 am
Does any of this matter? How does knowing who EG was add anything positive to the last four months? If he wants to step forward and discuss his feelings on the matter that’ll be his choice. Right now though we’ve got no business trying to out someone who’s still mostly a private person especially considering the number of nutbags running around.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:03 am
*shrugs* For all we know, EG watched the video, facepalmed, realized he’d erred, and resolved to be more careful in the future. If I were him, I wouldn’t want to come forward either at this point.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 6:05 am
Julian and Alethea: I have a feeling that if he knows who he is, he’s pretty embarassed by now. And he’s only responsible for the stupid thing he did in the elevator, not the wretched wave of scum and villainy that followed.
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:06 am
It was a tiny bar, and there would not have been more than 10 or 12 people there that late. And there was also nowhere to hide. So 1) no way anyone could not have heard Rebecca say she was tired and going to bed, and 2) EG can only be one of 10 or 12 people, two of which are me and PZ.
But I tell you the truth, I really don’t want to know now, it wouldn’t change anything.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:17 am
“If you’ve never been called a kafir, or a traitor, being an activist in Pakistan, you don’t matter. If you have been called a traitor, for calling the state to introspect and look for errors within your country, then I believe nothing is more beautiful than that.”
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:23 am
Looks like another bad night in California. Police in riot gear are at San Francisco now. Very concerning.
I’m not feeling well and I need to finish my work so pretty soon I’m going to have to step away from the computer. :(
First Approximation:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:25 am
Agreed. I expect there to be a post about it.
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:26 am
I happen to agree, but I wrongly believed that his identity was common knowledge, and was therefore surprised by Rorschach’s first post (which is why I asked).
Really, though. The guy’s identity was never the point. I don’t need, or want, to know. If he wants to come forward, that’s entirely up to him, but given the shitstorm that has swirled around this thing…
chigau (meh):
October 27th, 2011 at 6:31 am
Then there’s this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Jansen
look at his stuff on youtube
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:32 am
Sally, help me out here – I don’t get the connection between that quote and the Brooklyn shooting.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:35 am
OMG, so sorry Kseniya. I am embarrass.
“If you’ve never been called a kafir, or a traitor, being an activist in Pakistan, you don’t matter. If you have been called a traitor, for calling the state to introspect and look for errors within your country, then I believe nothing is more beautiful than that.”
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:36 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This one. This one is the good one. Not the first one.
X__X
Kseniya:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:37 am
Ah, wrong link. (I thought that might have been it!)
Thanks for the clarification. I’ll catch up later; it’s WAY past my bedtime. Night all!
Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:42 am
I think the identity of EG is irrelevant at this point; the bigger issue is the frightening number of truly repulsive misogynists there are in the atheist community – and the obvious follow-on from that: what the hell do we do about it?
Sally Strange, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:45 am
Holy shit. Rachel Maddow is AWESOME.
Monado, FCD:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:56 am
Is FTB still looking for science bloggers?
chigau (meh):
October 27th, 2011 at 7:09 am
Just because:
tubular bells
chigau (meh):
October 27th, 2011 at 7:23 am
Sometimes I watch Jesus Christ Superstar because I’m sure that Ted Neeley’s neck is going to explode.
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:44 am
Anyone have any tips for a good children’s book with dragons, castles and the like in the 4-6 age group ?
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:55 am
@Rorschach
Only one I can think of is The Practical Princess.
chigau (meh):
October 27th, 2011 at 7:55 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paper_Bag_Princess
Crudely Wrott:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:57 am
Sally Strange, Rachael Madow is my favorite news personality (After Uncle Walt). She is awesomeness personified for her fearlessness and her bold truthfullness. Not to mention her sparkling good humor. I do hope she keeps her job.
Re: Mitty’s response to being asked if he was against birth control. He answered, tiredly, thoughtlessly, trendily, “Absolutely”.
I’d like to state here and now that I am absolutely convinced that the use of the term “absolutely” in place of the simple “yes” or the slightly hedging “I guess so” is absolutely wrong.
And lazy. And an affectation driven by mimicry. And non informative. And a careless, misleading and self conscious attempt to sound well informed and of sound judgment when neither case is so. It is a Tee Vee artifact that I find extremely off putting.
I’m sure that I’m not alone in thinking so.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:05 am
Good morning
It’s clearly getting winter, with all the trolls coming inside for a good roasting.
Given the population of Lichtenstein, how many percent are that?
Generally speaking, they’re arrogant leeches that live off tax evaders and then get their royal knickers in a twist when people have the audacity to call them out on their criminal behaviour. Or, heaven beware, sell data-disks to German authorities.
birds
We have wuite a diverse bird-population here and one of the treats in winter is watching them from my parents kitchen window. There are several kinds of woodpeckers, robins (not all of them migrate), thrushes, blackbirds, tits (yes, I’m talking about birds), and many more.
In my flat, there are mostly crows. They live on the rooftop, and since I’m livig on the top-floor they’ll fly straight at my window to use the warm currents near the house for a final upswing and then land on the roof.
Once I found Mr. flat on his stomach in the livingroom because that manouvre had just been performed by half a dozen of them and he’d instinctively thrown himself on the floor.
They’ll annoy all the brids of prey from the zoo away. Even the bald-headed eagles. They can’t hurt them, but a handfull of the buggers will attack constantly until they leave.
EG
Really doesn’t matter.
For all I care the original event was trivial. Not zero-bad, of course, but just one of those daily things women have to put up with and that make this world a worse place.
What makes it important was what followed.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 8:23 am
If you can get your hands on a copy of a book known as ‘Voyage of the Basset’, I heartily recommend it for the art. Any kid will be enthralled by it, and the story itself is in some ways a bit of a clever parody on Charles Darwin exploring the Galapagos, only with fantasy creatures and such. It’s not your typical fairy tale, but you get yourself a good smattering of Greek mythology, with some European trolls, dragons, and mermaids.
OK, it might be a little bit advanced for 4-6 year olds, but I recommend it anyways. It’s awesome.
crowepps:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:30 am
rorschach @ #419 “a good children’s book with dragons” – I highly recommend The Tale of Custard the Dragon by Ogden Nash. It’s great fun to read out loud. He does eat a pirate, but my kids never seemed to find that scary.
http://www.amazon.com/Tale-Custard-Dragon-Ogden-Nash/dp/0316590312
rorschach:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:40 am
Thanks guys, great tips ! Shopping on Amazon now…
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:05 am
I didn’t read those comments as Boeckmann being EG, but being the first person to look at her reasonable comments and start yelling about how terrible she was to say it and how awful a person she is. Sort of the guy at the front of the mob pointing and shouting “She’s a witch! Burn her!” and getting everyone else riled up.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Really! Meet anyone from there? Or just figure because they have a ruling monarch it must be a happy fairy land. It *does* seem to be the perfect intersection of libertarian and authoritarian ideals, doesn’t it?
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Just covering both sides. He never said if his answer was absolutely no or absolutely yes.
Birger Johansson:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Another normal day in Scandinavia:
“Swede shocked by backyard elk ‘threesome’” http://www.thelocal.se/36994/20111027/
— — — —
BTW Swedish scientists have identified yet another deadly disease carried by ticks…
— — — —
Question to any Canadians: Has the political opposition finally grown a spine?
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Oh my, I can not tolerate food woo very well. Too much stupid.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:55 am
I have a coworker who believes that stuff too, won’t eat anything with yeast in it (um, I guess except everything that has yeast ON it).
Birger Johansson:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Those Dancing Days – Can’t Find Entrance (official video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uBl4NB2A6c
A really good indie band, this music sounds a bit like The Cure.
It is an all-woman band, these days such bands are common enough. It must have been harder in the pre-punk days to get taken seriously.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
No. Nor have I ever been to Liechtenstein itself. But I’ve been near there, having visited both eastern Switzerland and western Austria. It’s a very pretty part of the world.
(A little like how I imagine Lancre from the Discworld novels.)
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
I am, unfortunately, somewhat prone to this particular kind of rose-tinted vision.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
This is something of an unjust stereotype of the 36,000 inhabitants of Liechtenstein, surely?
birgerjohansson:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Romney the moderate has Lebanese ethnic cleansing chief ideologue as advisor ???
“Top Romney Adviser Tied to Militia That Massacred” http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/10/walid-phares-mitt-romney-lebanese-forces
AJ Milne:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
The occasionally-surfacing eternal optimist in me wants to picture this. Better, it wants to picture him coming forward and say something like ‘Grrooooan… ‘Kay, you’re right, that was really pretty incredibly obnoxious and presumptuous and I don’t know what the hell I was thinking and if, just maybe, I was really being a creepy guy who was half hoping it might even intimidate her into saying yes, fuck, I’m a bastard and I guess I should stop that stuff and I’m sorry… and failing that, even if I really wasn’t, and was more just being clueless, I shoulda at least realized it might just have come off that way and was pretty inappropriate like six ways beyond that anyway… And, um, also, you whinging pricks going on about how her actually pretty measured and sensible response and observations thereafter–observations which, by the way, it probably would help secular groups and members thereof to take to heart for future events like that and for life in general–all you lot going on about how these make her some kinda man-hating monster and those of you now randomly hurling somewhat disturbing abuse in her direction: what the fuck is wrong with you people?’
It actually wouldn’t help that much, at this point, no. We’d still have a small army of other mouthbreathers embarrassing me about my entire involvement with secularist groups and communities. But I think it would still amuse me, in a somewhat dark way, at least.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
The Revd Dr Giles Fraser, canon chancellor of St Paul’s Cathedral, resigned today in protest at plans to forcibly remove Occupy protestors from the cathedral steps.
Fraser is a good guy. He’s also a supporter of LGBT equality who has criticized Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, for not doing enough to stand up to the homophobes within the Church.
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
*sigh* I had to explain to the GF last night about how Watson had been calm in the original video, wasn’t making a big deal out of the whole thing, and was just giving some advice to guys who may not realize how creepy they’re beeing.
She kept saying stuff about how Watson had been freaking out, made it a huge deal, etc etc.
I will have to find the original video and show her how it was like 2 minutes of an 8 minute video.
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Whoever linked to that Rachel Maddow section…
That was very condescending and sexist to men, to be honest. Not as condescending and sexist to women as other segments other anchors do… but still.
Ing:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Oh honey…you weren’t cheated of your dream. You got exactly what was promised.
ChasCPeterson:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Sili @ #297: No good. ‘Two cephalopod mollusca’ is far more generic (wait, no…classic?) than ‘two octopuses’. Still, I agree with your prescription to avoid ‘octopi’.
bullshit. You just have to know what you’re doing.
(Catching them in the first place is, of course, the trick.)
Starling fans definitely ought to read this (warning: cheezy autoplay music). That host site looks to be pretty up to date, by the way, re starling care.
Except that cats are far more carnvivorous than dogs, and catfood is therefore higher in protein. If dogfood is better, it’s for some other reason (more carbs, less fat, less taurine…?).
Classical Lorenzian imprinting is only a piece of the social-conditioning story. Did you know that this kind of thing has been studied rigorously for decades? A half-hour on Google Scholar would substitute nicely for anecdote-based speculative bloviating, IMO.
no, atheists.
iswydt
Yes, I am (absolutely) on board with this prescription as well.
re Maddow clip: wait, “hormonal forms of birth control prevent implantation, not conception”? That’s not true, certainly not of the classic Pill, which principally prevents ovulation in the first place. Maddow mentions this at 7:15, but then goes on to way, way overemphasize the controversial (and in any case second- or even tertiary) anti-implantation effect.
That’s worrisome misinformation from ‘our side’, Romney’s ignorance aside.
Spinning facts to better conform to personal preferences, everybody’s doin’ it!
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@trinioler:
Are you being serious?
That segment was about a fucking personhood amendment that will, in actuality, limit the choices women have to safe and effective birth control and you’re talking about how it’s condescending towards men?
What the fuck?
ChasCPeterson:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
trinioler: People will argue with your usage of ‘sexist’, but I agree that was done in as condescending a fashion as possible.
What’s more annoying than somebody being simultaneously condescending and wrong?
Not one of Maddow’s better moments.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@Chas:
I think the point is that the oral contraceptive functions in a manner that it’s impossible to tell which of the three functions caused the pregnancy to not happen. Did it stop ovulation? Did it stop sperm from entering the cervix? Did it stop implantation?
It’ll be a baby-with-the-bathwater type scenario “well, one of the three possibilities is that it will stop implantation, so it’s gotta go.”
ChasCPeterson:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
That’s right, dumbass, it was condescending, irrespective of its content (about which see above).
Romney was the idiot, not ‘men’.
Yes, I am tone-trolling Rachel Maddow.
The Sailor:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Fun facts: My Uni is 1/10th the size of Liechtenstein and has almost 2x as many students as they have population.
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Katherine, my point was that, she acted as if men would only pay attention because of the “man-cave”, the sports, the beer, etc. Its very condescending, and sexist in the sense that it reinforces gender roles and stereotypical behaviors in men. As a guy with no interest in sports, that hates beer, and detests the concept of her using a “man-cave” to make men feel more “comfortable”, that whole segment just left me feeling cold towards the methods she used.
I do agree, that because you can’t prove which of the three methods the pill uses to prevent pregnancy, that it would likely just be outlawed outright. I am unfamiliar with medicine and chemistry enough to ask, is that function implicit in the pill, or can it be removed?
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@Chas:
So the gist of what you’re saying is that it was a bad segment because Maddow was a little condescending. No matter that she was talking about a law of which the entire intent is to turn poor and middle-class women* into ambulatory incubators.
And let’s also be honest here, it is men who are the problem. It’s rich, straight, Christian, white men who are trying to write into law things that will help them out and make life more difficult for the people who just so happen to be out of those demographics. Not all men, certainly am not espousing that.
Those people are evil, and a little condescension towards them is fine in my books.
*This law won’t affect women who are able to get out of the state to have an abortion, only those unable to do so.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@trinioler:
Maybe I’m just looking at this from the point of view that the segment was not directed at men like you, but more towards the kinds of men who would vote for this kind of law, those who need it thrust into their faces that “yes, idiots, that is how the pill works!”
That said…
@Chas:
Apologies, that was far too defensive a reaction from me. Should’ve paused and waited to see whether my intent would have followed through in the response I gave, but anger at being dismissed as a “dumbass” prompted a half-hearted, bizarrely worded response to yours and triniloer’s point.
Re: Condescension:
I think it did come across a bit condescending and perhaps reinforcing of stereotypes, but as I mentioned above, it didn’t appear to me to be directed at men who are knowledgeable and understand the needs and aspects of OBGYN. It seemed to have been directed at the ‘FOOTBALL!’ types who didn’t know that the pill worked the way it does. I concede that it was reinforcing of stereotypes, and likely could have served better in a different kind of segment without the “man cave” aspects.
Also, did she open up three “beers” during the segment?
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
They were “near-beers”, and yes she did. I get your point, I just feel that the condecension, at the very least, gives people a valid reason to dismiss the video.
Also Munchkin is so gosh-darned cute! EEEEEE
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I had a problem with the Maddow piece because of that emphasis on non-implantation, as well.
Most of them do, in fact, prevent ovulation. I’m ashamed that I can’t find the original source where I read it, but I’ve read that the “and may prevent implantation” was more of an add-on labeling issue than anything rooted in biology, in the same way that backyard slides have to be labeled not to use while drunk to avoid lawsuits even though nobody will be using it that way. I can find references to studies showing that progesterone-high birth control (such as Plan B), act specifically to prevent ovulation and do not affect implantation rates of already-popped-out-eggs (such as here). Since progesterones are heavily involved in keeping a pregnancy going, an actual fertilized egg has an easier time implanting, not harder.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@trinioler:
I’ve learned from this blog to pause when people are dismissing me and saying that my points are dumb cause they usually are… of course at the same time I get defensive and try to solidify my position, but in doing so I’m making myself out as even dumber. Should take the hint that maybe what I’m saying isn’t quite right and I should step back and think before posting.
Walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Well, I’m a guy who has no interest in sports and hates beer, and I didn’t find the segment objectionable in the slightest. I saw the whole “mancave” thing as mocking the idiot macho sports-obsessed mentality of “Real Man” types, not as an attack on all men.
(Whether it was wrong in biological terms is a question on which I am unqualified to comment. But I didn’t see anything wrong with the tone.)
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Also see here
Lalitkumar PG, Lalitkumar S, Meng CX, Stavreus-Evers A, Hambiliki F, Bentin-Ley U, Gemzell-Danielsson K. Mifepristone, but not levonorgestrel, inhibits human blastocyst attachment to an in vitro endometrial three-dimensional cell culture model. Human Reprod. 2007;22:3031-7.
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Interesting Carlie.
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
That’s how I saw it, too. I was under the impression Rachel Maddow did that sort of thing often. When I used to watch her she would add in little jokes to her pieces whenever they touched on this or that ridiculous stereotype or position. Or at least that’s how I remember it.
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Ah, here is the one I was thinking of.
Post‐coital administration of levonorgestrel does not interfere with post‐fertilization events in the new‐world monkey Cebus apella
“CONCLUSION: In Cebus monkeys, LNG can inhibit or delay ovulation but, once fertilization has taken place, it cannot prevent the establishment of pregnancy. These findings do not support the hypothesis that emergency contraception with LNG prevents pregnancy by interfering with post‐fertilization events. ”
This one was apparently criticized, and responded to here
aladegorrion:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I like this xkcd from a few days ago, if you haven’t seen it: http://xkcd.com/968/. This is how I want to feel about a life partner if I ever find one. Want, not need.
The anti-woman and anti-contraception stuff in Mississippi freaks me out. I’m fairly sure I don’t want to have kids, but not quite always, and this makes me want to just go get sterilized so I never have to have an unwanted pregnancy if abortions are going to be even harder to get.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Mississippi Goddamn, indeed.
Benjamin "Durr Hurr" Geiger:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
*snerk*
Another idiotic screed from Eugene Delgaudio, this time talking about this idiotic (ex?-)teacher.
But I mostly love the first sentence of the disclaimer: “Because Public Advocate of the U.S. is a nonprofit, charitable organization that fights the radical agenda of the Homosexual Lobby, contributions are not tax deductible for IRS purposes.” “Charitable”: ur doin it rong.
SC (Salty Current), OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
In case people aren’t aware, bluharmony has been misrepresenting the wiki page and what happened with it (claiming vicious lies, libel, violation of terms) for the past few days on Twitter. The latest:
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Wow. Things just get more and more interesting the longer they sit in her head.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Hahahaha.
“Libel” like claiming she’s a liar, no doubt.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Walton
Walton, I wasn’t stereotyping 36.000 inhabitants but a nation.
You know, like saying the USA are war-mongering and such.
And as a nation they live comfortably by supporting criminals. I don’t see a mass protest of the inhabitants of Liechtenstein about this. I don’t see them voting for any efforts to change those matters.
The are, as a nation, involved in organized crime. They are, as individual citizens, not very concerned about this. And yes, they, as their political spokespeople freak out whenever anybody mentions this. You most likely didn’t follow their “Zwergenaufstand” when, after the last data CD was bought or in the process of being bought, they became all uppity about how those evil governments would “support criminals who stole data by rewarding them with money”, while they are doing the exact thing since like forever.
You know, it’s like all those catholics: They never abused any children, they think it’s bad, but probably not as bad as people claim and they become upset when you criticise the pope.
So, if I said that catholics supported a criminal organization, would you become upset, too?
bluharmony
She really, really needs to stop. For her own good.
Concerning Rachel Madow
Every grown heterosexual man, who has been sexually active and most likely left the contraception part to his female partner and who has never bothered even reading the instruction-leaflet in the packet deserves to be condescended.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
It won’t matter. The power and control over whether you can be or should be pregnant will be used against you because the highest levels of power have set the precedent that it is something they can control about you. Your total status in society will suffer, unless you enter the profitable business of exploiting your own.
But don’t think I’m moralizing. My big plan is to GTFO.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Does anyone think a certain diplomat’s “bourgeois feminist” trope sounds familiar?
Benjamin "Durr Hurr" Geiger:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
That depends on whether “who has … most likely left the contraception part to his female partner and who has never bothered even reading the instruction-leaflet in the packet” is intended as a restrictive clause or a descriptive clause.
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Ben – sometimes commas are the enemy.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Yep, I fully admit to having made a defining relative clause into a non-defining. Call the grammar police ;)
Just ignore the comma
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
reminds me of the Second Amendment – unfortunately SCOTUS ignored the linguist expert testimony on the usage of commas in 18th century English.
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005229.html
Richard Austin:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
A couple friends (a gay couple, actually) found a baby pigeon on the ground near their house one day. They were unable to locate a nest nearby, had no idea how the bird got there, and knew it would die if left, so they took it in and nursed it until it was grown enough to fly. As this was in the San Fernando Valley, there were plenty of wild pigeons around, and the little bird had examples and such and eventually flew away.
… And still comes back every day or so. His name is Phineas. Normally, he’ll show up around dinner time if they’re sitting on the porch. He’ll walk over, walk up the shoulder of one, and be fed little bits from plates and such (and even do “kissing” and things). He’ll also occasionally bring a “friend” with him who is decidedly less comfortable around the guys but still hangs around a bit and gets fed.
The really odd part is when they’re eating inside and Phineas walks in the doggie door, walks into the kitchen, hops up on the counter and starts drinking out of his bowl. The first time I saw this, I had no idea what was going on, and it was almost Disney-ish.
AJ Milne:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Yeah. If no one present whistles the tune to ‘I’m Wishing’ from Snow White when that happens, an opportunity’s been missed, I say.
Also a propos of nothing much, if ‘The Pharyngula Bump’ isn’t already a dance, it should be.
Rey Fox:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Grammar Police, arrest this nerd…
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
I see what you mean, but in general I think it’s very important not to anthropomorphize the nation-state in everyday language. (This is one of the things I hate about traditional international law and international relations; thankfully, it’s gradually changing.) We should not talk about “the nation” when what we actually mean is “the state”. Nation-states are arbitrarily-defined entities, which we have no choice but to be subject to; and the people who happen to live under the rule of a given state are not collectively accountable for what the state does.
(Whether the country is democratic or non-democratic is irrelevant; this observation would hold true even in an imaginary perfectly-democratic country. If I am outvoted, I am not morally responsible for what the majority has chosen to do against my wishes. The only situation in which it would be just to hold everyone collectively responsible for the acts of the state would be one in which all decisions required complete consensus of every individual in the country; I’m not aware of any society in history that has ever been governed that way.)
So “the USA” is not war-mongering; “the USA” is an area of land inhabited by 300 million individual people, of wildly diverse views and opinions and cultures and political outlooks. The United States federal government is war-mongering; the people responsible for this are the politicians who start wars, and their supporters and campaign donors, and the people who voluntarily sign up to carry out their orders.
This might sound like pedantry, but I think it’s important. We often talk of nation-states as though they were people, and as though the government and the nation were one and the same; we say “France did X” or “The US thinks Y” or “Israel wants Z”. (And many people – including me, occasionally, but it’s a habit I’m trying to break – use the term “we” and “us” to refer to things our nation-states have done, even to things they did long before the speaker was born and without any kind of personal involvement on hir part; e.g. “We beat the Spanish Armada in 1588″ or “We left India in 1947″.) This is a leftover from the nineteenth-century paradigm of international law and geopolitics, in which the nation was identified with the sovereign, and the sovereign had absolute power to do whatever xe wished within hir territory; international law dealt purely with relations between states, and was silent on the relations between the state and its subjects. (Thankfully, international law has come a long way since then, although it’s still unduly obsessed with “state sovereignty”.) It’s very silly, and it contributes to the reinforcement of tribal national boundaries.
Apologies if this comes across as a lecture; I know you don’t support nationalism, and I doubt you were intending to suggest that the nation-state should be treated as though it had a collective will. But I think it’s important, because I’m trying to work against nationalist thinking in all its forms; we all naturally internalize, from early childhood onwards, language and habits of thought which contribute to the idea that there is a difference between “our people” and “foreigners”.
Er… there’s a bit of a big moral difference between tax-evasion and child-abuse, don’t you think?
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
(I should add that I’m not intending to criticize the military here, by any means; nor do I want to get into a discussion about US foreign policy. I just adopted this example because it was the one that Giliell used.)
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
To be fair, Walton, I really think you shouldn’t get to upset about that comment when you have just admired a nation whose inhabitants you know little of because their recent political actions harshed your monarchy buzz.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Since that sentence made no sense, let me clarify:
What the fuck do you care about people living there? You didn’t care about them when you used them to bolster your day dreams of monarchical paradise, why the fuck do you pretend to give a shit about them now?
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
There are people who disagree with this notion. Though I’d personally tend more towards your position..
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
On this point I wasn’t really talking specifically about Liechtenstein; rather, I think it’s generally important not to anthropomorphize the state or to ascribe collective moral responsibility to its inhabitants. (Again, I apologize to Giliell if it came across as lecturing; I really didn’t mean to. It’s just one of those things that is normal in our language, but that grates on me somehow.)
And what gave you the impression that I don’t care about the people of Liechtenstein? :-/ I’m upset about the decision to keep abortion illegal precisely because I think it’s the wrong decision and will be bad for the people there. If I didn’t care about the country or its people, I wouldn’t be interested.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Yes. And they’re wrong. That was my point. :-)
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
I actually care about the Liechtensteiners in exile, who very understandably fled your little dream mountain principality and are now disenfranchised.
I mean those Liechtensteiners who are left are pushing initiatives like generously giving Liechtenstein women the right to have an abortion in Switzerland, because they don’t have the guts to oppose the Dear
LeaderPrince at home.pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Nah, I’ll just let it go…
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
….
….
….
I would never make it in law. I’d stab someone. Repeatedly. In the face.
Jesus Christ, are my rights really that paper thin?
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
The fact that you assumed things were rosy because they have a monarch until they did something that apparently merits your attention. And the fact that you didn’t seem to be that bothered until it turned out the people there went on to push this through anyway.
Would you have posted triumphantly, say, if the people for some strange reason opposed this so much they threw out their leader and stripped him of his title. Would you be cheering for their victory?
I doubt it.
LS:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Argh. Have a family member who’s in an… interesting situation.
She *wants* to work, and has been working, and thus has lost access to disability and, with it, medicare (or was it medicaid?).
Our system here is so stupid. She can’t afford her freaking medicine, so she should stay on disability for her epilepsy, but she *can* work. When it’s being controlled.
The problem is that she’s racking up medical bills that she can’t even begin to pay (though they’re garnishing her already meager wages to try), because she has to go into the ER at times to get medicine that she can’t seem to get anyone to prescribe her.
Sorry, bit of a rant. Just BS health care system as usual in the US. I’m going to have to tell her that she needs to get a disability advocate and get back onto disability so that she can get the medicine she needs.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
I don’t have the superhuman ability to follow every political event in every country in the world. That doesn’t mean I don’t care, or that I don’t have strong feelings about it when it’s brought to my attention.
Ing: Od Wet Rust:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Yes.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
I still don’t trust that you care as much about the people there as you do about your own beliefs in what that place should be.
Though, I will admit, my troll-fangs haven’t retracted yet.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Oh, it’s worse than you think. Heller is nowhere near being Scalia’s worst ever decision.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Walton
Few people have your, ehm, enthusiasm about absolutely correctly used terms that must not be mixed.
Of course there’s a big difference between child-abuse and tax-evasion and that was not what I compared. I compared the reaction of the non-complicit catholics to that of the non-complicit citizens of Liechtenstein. They support the system in not doing anything against it.
I’m not so eager to let everybody off the hook because they are not directly involved. I hold more with Erich Kästner:
I know we’re pretty powerless, and we can’t pick every fight, let alone win, but the apathy of the majorities is in my eyes as dangerous as the action of few.
Apart from that: What Algeron said: you were quite happy to use “Liechtenstein” as an entity talking about its landscape or political system
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
But on the Liechtenstein issue:
I do think the population is complicit.*) How can they not be. A population that in this day and age accepts a constitutional reform making the Prince the most dictatorial head of state in Europe (after the pope). When the referendum came up, they should have said: fuck you, go back to Austria.
But they choose to back this regime because it creates a lot of money for enough connected Liechtensteiners anyways. Those who aren’t connected can go away, it’s not like they’d have the vote anyway…
*) not as a matter of personal liability, but as a moral one. You might find nation states arbitrary constructs, and of course you’re right, but in the political process, a population is a real definable entity.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
I was predisposed to like the Liechtensteiner form of government because I like monarchy in general. However, I’m not capable of entirely ignoring evidence that contradicts my worldview. (If I were, I’d probably still be a libertarian, and/or a devout Christian.)
Ing: Od Wet Rust:
October 27th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Scalia is a shit stain in a robe.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 27th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
I had a pet pigeon for a while in my old town, that I handraised from a half grown baby. He lived outdoors and hung out around the chicken coop, but he disappeared one day. He was pretty interesting.
Chas:
OK, I will check out this google scholar thing.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Some things need fixing
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Except that Catholics can leave the Catholic Church* without having to emigrate.
(*I know that it can be near-impossible to leave the Church officially. But they can, at least, remove themselves from the effective jurisdiction of the Church, if they so wish, by not going to church and by ignoring any church commands they disagree with. By contrast, inhabitants of a nation-state can’t remove themselves from the effective jurisdiction of the state, except by physically moving out of the state. This may not be such a huge problem for Liechtensteiners, but – as a general principle – it is a major hurdle for most people in most states in the world, especially given that most states impose strict immigration controls.)
And 47 percent of Liechtenstein voters did, in fact, vote in favour of legalizing abortion, so it’s not accurate to say that none of them did anything to oppose the system.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Indeed. In my field – immigration law – he has a tendency to take an extremely narrow view of who should get asylum, and is perfectly happy to send people back to countries where they may be tortured or killed if they don’t fall within a narrow construction of the statutory definition of “refugee”. (See, for instance, Immigration and Naturalization Service v Elias-Zacharias 502 U.S. 478.)
Among other Scalia highlights, he thinks that it’s A-OK to execute people who were teenagers at the time of the crime (Stanford v Kentucky 492 U.S. 361) and the mentally retarded (dissent in Atkins v Virginia 536 U.S. 304). And he voted with the majority in District Attorney’s Office v Osborne 129 S. Ct. 2308, in which the majority of the Court held that a person convicted of a crime had no constitutional cright, after conviction, to have the DNA evidence against him independently re-tested (even at his own expense).
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Walton,
since the EEA/EU is the place where your ideas of post-nationalism are advanced the furthest, you shouldn’t bring in “the entire world” when it’s convenient for you.
Some numbers
Liechtenstein: total population: 35,446
citizens: 23,649
estimated Liechtenstein citizens abroad: 3300!!
Now I don’t know if those 3,300 count are included among the 23,649, I’d say so, because you can stay registered with your home town registry (a Continental notion I know, but Europeans usually register at their place of residence).
So in that case, 1/7 of Liechtenstein citizens have voted with their feet and left the mountain principality.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Walton
Yes, but they can also be excommunicated for becoming too troublesome, while the citizens of Liechtenstein won’t be deported because they oppose making their federal budget from criminal activity.
You can turn it around, too.
And what does that matter about opposing something happening in your country? US-citizens against the wars didn’t have to emigrate. Occupy Wallstreet isn’t happening with exiles all over the world.
And lastly it hasn’t got anything to do with the deeply offended knee-jerk reaction when other countries’ governments suggest that they’re fucking annoyed about Liechtenstein helping thugs to bancrupt their countries.
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
My ignorance may be shining through but, why would that even be a case? How does having a separate lab retest evidence in anyway undermine the justice system?
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Which spares us the troubles the USA have with registering voters and the fraud the rethuglicans commit by barring undesirable groups from voting.
Not the worst concept, I’d say.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
I think my guess is correct. The Liechtensteiners abroad are not counted amongst the eligible voters. The law also says that in order to participate in elections, a Liechtensteiner must have lived in Liechtenstein for at least a month prior. So you couldn’t just return home to cast ballots (which would work because most Liechtensteiners abroad live in Switzerland, Austria and Germany).
According to news sources, I found the following figures for the 2003 referendum:
16,932 citizens eligible
87.7% of those eligible voted
from those 14,633
64% voted for the Prince’s bill and 83% voted against a bill which would have given the Landtag more powers.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
I also note that there is a contradiction here, but I can’t resolve as I’m not an expert in Liechtenstein law, so I don’t know if you could stay registered in order to vote, or whether there are requirements that you have to maintain a presence in Liechtenstein so you can stay registered.
Probably at some point, most European states would make you de-register too.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Osborne was convicted of a sexual assault in state court in Alaska. He claimed it was a case of mistaken identity. During the trial process, a condom found at the crime scene was tested for DNA using a relatively inexact method of DNA testing called “DQ Alpha” testing, which, according to the facts in evidence, can only narrow the perpetrator down to about 5 percent of the population.* At trial, his defense attorney failed to seek the more precise form of DNA testing (known as “restriction-fragment-length-polymorphism” testing, or RFLP), and he was convicted.
(*I can’t confirm this claim myself, since I have no expertise in forensic science, but these are the facts that appear in the judgment.)
Later, on appeal, he wanted to have the DNA retested, using either RFLP testing or a more effective method, “short-repeat testing” or STR, which had since become available. After the state appellate courts refused to allow him to access the DNA evidence, he brought proceedings in the federal courts, claiming that he had a constitutional right under the Due Process Clause to have the evidence re-tested. He won in the District Court and the Court of Appeals, but the Supreme Court reversed the judgment. Chief Justice Roberts, writing the majority opinion (with which Scalia joined), held:
trinioler:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Good news! The gf, has been approved for Gender Reassignment Therapy by one of her two therapists today! She just has to pass the second one, and save up the money. Yay!
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Giliell:
Yes… I think perhaps I misunderstood what you were originally arguing; I don’t think we’re really in disagreement. Of course I don’t think it’s ever right to hold people collectively accountable for the acts of other inhabitants of an arbitrarily-defined polity; but obviously you are absolutely right that people should be considered accountable for their own actions or inactions, including their failure to actively oppose a bad law. I’m not personally responsible for the fact that the British government is detaining immigrants in inhumane conditions and deporting them by force to very nasty places, for instance; but it would be fair to criticize me if I were not speaking out against it. So it’s fair to say that citizens of Liechtenstein have a moral responsibility to actively oppose the abortion ban, for instance.
julian:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
@Walton
So in short, once we find you guilty, we get to decide if we’ve made a mistake or not?
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Yep. Basically. And given the number of people who have been convicted and imprisoned based on inaccurate eyewitness testimony, and later exonerated by DNA evidence, it’s a very worrying holding. (The jury trial process is remarkably unscientific and relies very heavily on unreliable eyewitness evidence, and even trials which meet all the formal requirements of due process are still prone to convicting innocent people.)
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Hmmm, I’m experimenting a bit with the fail-fudge. So far, the second batch with chocolate failed, too, but the lavender-Fleur de Sel is really intense, although a bit soft.
At the moment I’m trying something a bit more caramelish and with christmas spices.
The Ys:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
I wasn’t sure if the ‘Thugs Amuck’ thread was the right spot to mention this, so I’m bringing it up here.
This depresses the hell out of me:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-occupy-security-statement,0,7071518.htmlpage
“Sexual abuse and assault are dehumanizing acts for the survivor as well as the abuser.”
So…we’re supposed to care about the abuser being dehumanized because that person hurt someone else?
And then:
“Though we do not encourage the involvement of the police in our community, the survivor has every right, and the support of Occupy Baltimore, to report the abuse to the appropriate law enforcement.”
Isn’t it nice of them to admit that people have a right to protection from those who’ve abused them?
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Giliell:
I tried the fail-fudge last night (sixth time in 35 years). And I have caramel-textured fudge. Sticky and the consistency of soft caramel. Well, it’ll be good as hot fudge over ice cream anyway.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Oh yes, won’t some one think of the abusers. They deserve real sympathy here.
Fuck, wasn’t I just arguing about that? You really never do get away from it. No where you go, so long as there are humans.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Armed robbery is dehumanizing for both the survivor and the robber.
Though we do not encourage the involvement of the police in our community, the survivor has every right, and the support of Occupy Baltimore, to report the robbery to the appropriate law enforcement.
…
Thought not.
consciousness razor:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
That last clause just makes my head hurt. Isn’t this saying Osborne has a limited interest? How? What? The state can’t determine a person’s own interests. The only exception I can think of is if one is mentally incapable of making such a determination for oneself, and in that context it wouldn’t be to deny them their rights but to secure them.
Don’t you think the same rule applies to a government as it does to a nation-state? One could just as well claim not everyone in the government is responsible for a government’s actions, that governments ought not be personified either*, but it looks you’ve done that more than a few times, rather than referring to some individuals working in it. I don’t think it’s really a problem when speaking casually, but since to me this looks exactly like your complaint, I figured I’d mention it because I’m often surprised by which particular ways you disagree with me. ;)
*I will not mention the “M” word, for fear of what that may cause, but please don’t take this as a reference to it.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Hmmm. I think there’s some truth there, but it’s still a slightly different situation. (And yes, I’m sometimes lazy in talking of “the state” or “the government” as though it were a single body with a single guiding will, rather than – as most modern states are – an overlapping network of different bureaucracies.)
In the case of governments, I’d say whether a person should be considered to be responsible for the actions of the government should depend on hir rank, position, and extent of personal involvement with the actions we’re complaining about. To take an obvious example, a desk clerk in the Department of Veterans’ Affairs or a ranger in the US Forest Service is not personally morally responsible for the torture of detainees at Guantánamo; the director of the CIA is, even if he was acting on direct orders. But if one is a government official and one is told to do something that violates one’s conscience, I’m comfortable saying that one has, in general, a moral obligation to resign rather than do it.
(Military personnel are in a special position here because members of the armed forces can’t just resign at will. Even so, it’s well-established in international humanitarian law that a soldier should refuse to commit a war crime if ordered to do so, and that xe has a defence if subsequently court-martialled for refusing orders. Whether a soldier should refuse an order that is immoral but not illegal, and risk being executed or imprisoned for mutiny as a result, I’m less willing to offer an opinion on; I’d like to think that I’d have the courage to do so, but of course I’ve never been in that situation. But I admire Bradley Manning very much.)
Of course, I should add that my analysis is forward-looking rather than backward-looking. I’m talking about what one should do when one is in such a position. I’m not necessarily saying that people who are complicit in such acts should be held responsible and punished after the fact; since, as you know, I don’t buy into the idea of retributive justice, and I don’t think punishment should always be assumed to be the right response to wrongdoing. (Which is not to say that I don’t think punishment is ever an appropriate response; I wouldn’t make such a sweeping claim, by any means. But it depends on the parameters of the situation.)
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
trinioler – that’s fantastic!!!!
sandiseattle:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
So I’m back:
Cicely- I don’t know much about the teabaggers.
chigau- is Ted Neely the one who played Judas or Simom Zealotes? (My fav scene in JCS is “The Power and the Glory” with Simon Zealotes. Its very frenetic.)
Species8472:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
So, what are you endlessly talking about today?
@507 trinioler: Awesome!
consciousness razor:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Well, they can, but there are dire consequences for doing so. This is just one of many reasons not to join the military. Most of them involve killing people. I’m not at all inclined to put military personal in a special category in regard to ethics. Inter arma enim silent leges.
I know this is just a metaphor, but it always bothers me*. We can’t actually see the future, just the past. We analyze the past and use it to make decisions.
*I mean it always has. Whether it always will, I couldn’t say.
I agree, but I think sometimes you’re a bit too keen on labeling something as “retributive punishment” when it doesn’t seem so obvious to me. (I wish I could remember a specific instance where I disagreed with your assessment, but I’m just going to have leave it at that for now.) As a general example, one might think of imprisonment as a kind of punishment in some cases, while another thinks of it as protecting society. I don’t think it really matters how people think about it if they’re doing the right thing, but the point is that it’s not clear where the boundary is, so we have to be careful that we’re not arguing against the only effective option available in a particular situation.
mythusmage:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
(My apologies if this has been answered.)
#487, LS,
Was she on SSI? If she was (is?) they have a program where a recipient can work and still receive Medicaid.
mythusmage:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
#515, Algernon
You’ve never been a robber.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Aaron Baker does not like me. How shall I go on?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
A more pressing question: who the hell is Aaron Baker, and why is he so very very stupid?
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
I wish I knew but he keeps showing up when the topic is Hitler. And he keeps bringing the Table Talks.
walton:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
This isn’t quite what I meant. What I meant is that my analysis is intended to be used for making decisions in the present about how we should resolve dilemmas now; it’s not intended to be used for looking back and condemning everyone who’s been responsible for perpetrating bad acts in the past. We could engage in the latter pastime all day – condemning everyone from Paul Tibbetts to Harry Truman to Henry Kissinger to Donald Rumsfeld to Leon Panetta for their part in perpetrating various atrocities, as though we were judges at the Hague – and it won’t accomplish anything. I’m not interested in “responsibility” in the sense of “finding someone to blame”. (Not that I haven’t sometimes judged and condemned bad politicians in my mind, or labelled them “monsters” and suchlike – I have – but the fact that I’ve done so doesn’t imply that I can justify it as a rational or useful endeavour.)
Of course you’re right, though, that we have to analyze the past in order to make decisions in the present. And I’m not meaning to suggest that an analysis of the moral dynamics of past situations is useless. Rather, I was just concerned because I found myself talking about “moral responsibility” a great deal in the preceding post, and I wanted to reassure people that I do not mean that I buy into the mindset of “we have to hold someone responsible and punish them”. (That would be rather obviously inconsistent with my own past statements on the subject of free will, moral agency and punishment.)
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
According to Zerple, he is the one person in a blog that contains 900 trolls.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
When I asked him about those, he said he was explicitly NOT referring to them..
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
He has a history of referring to Table Talks until someone calls him on it. He will back away until the next time and do it all over again. Because, as consciousness razor points out in the latest thread about Hitler, Nazism was an primarily a secular movement. So Darwin must remain in the discussion.
As an other person pointed out, there is a distinct David Marshall feel to him.
consciousness razor:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:01 pm
Walton:
I understand what you meant, and in a sense I agree what you’re talking about is “forward-looking” rather than “backward.” The metaphor just bothers me. That’s all I was trying to say, but I’ve been very tired and scatterbrained lately, so I probably didn’t make that as clear as it should’ve been.
That’s not what responsibility means anyway.
Responsibility doesn’t entail all of that. It just means, quite literally, the ability to respond, so unless you do start talking about blame and punishment, I don’t think many people will confuse them. Also, none of that stuff about determinism enters into the question of whether or not a certain act is “punishment.”
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Total Thread bankruptcy.
Anyway.
FUCK THIS SNOW.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
I see. I did notice a certain obtuseness re the Social Darwinism issue.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Also, just heard a radio ad– apparently the Misfits are playing around here this weekend.
The Misfits, really? Who wants to see The Misfits without Glenn Danzig?
Carlie:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Audley – noooooooo!!!! I was just eying the rain an hour ago thinking that some of those drops were falling a little too slow to be just liquid water…
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Audley, the Only brothers have been doing this for decades. Enough continue to show up for them to keep on the road. If the Doors and Queen can do it, why not the Misfits?
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
did this GBD moron just deliberately change his avatar in order to make a petulant point?
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Carlie,
It’s been snowing for hours here. :(
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
When the women are liberated by the revolution, the hot ones will wear bikinis!
Meh… what an ass.
Algernon:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
It’s raining here. Actually, it’s really nice. I like this time of year.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Janine,
Yeah… I know. I just didn’t realize that The Misfits were still a thing.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Oh, shit. The Rookie just showed up at the latest Hitler thread. It only took a couple of comments to show that he is still an idiot.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Oh nonexistent gods, Rooke is back.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
Caine, I see you caught on.
Heh.
pelamun:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
he was already asked to post on TET and is currently searching for it.
Pssst, everyone, keep quiet :D
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:00 am
Janine, hard to miss an asshat that big. Ugh. That one can’t be slammed into the dungeon fast enough.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:04 am
Wow. Pete Rooke! You know, it was partially because of him that I got the nerve up to talk to Walton.
Hmmm…. I wonder if he’ll have any tortured analogies handy.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:06 am
Caine, actually, I was too amused by the Rookie to want the banhammer brought down on him. But his mistake was to want to talk to the insane Canadian when he did his shit fingerpainting when PZ was gone for a weekend and had to clean up hundreds of comments.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:11 am
The Rookie is so absolutely clueless. He was provoked.
He is such a treasure trove of easy laughter for me.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:17 am
I just got a new moniker!
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:18 am
Well, today with Alfie was interesting. He’s not getting much better, so it will be back to the vet on Monday. When I got him up today, his poor little eyes were stuck together, so I took him in the bathroom to clean up. He had a fair amount of hair stuck together from peeing too, so I went to clean up there and noticed his monumental* testicles were missing. I now have him on a heating pad, hoping they’ll descend again.
*Anyone who has ever had a male rat can tell you that their testicles are *enormous*.
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:18 am
Still figuring out how to do the simplest things on my computer.
Monado, FCD:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:19 am
Waaay up at the discussion of alternatives for “blogwhore”–how about blog-panderer?
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:23 am
Nah. He’s just riffing one liners. Lame ones, at that.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:25 am
European (religious) idiocy of the day
The last witch trial in Western Germany was 1738 in Gerresheim, today a district of Düsseldorf. Two women, Helena Curtens, 16, and Agnes Olmans, 47, were burned at the stake. The City Council was discussing the issue of rehabilitating the two women, supported by the Social Democratic (SPD) and Green Parties.
The city councillor in charge of cultural affairs, from the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) said that City Hall would not be able to grant that request, as it had been a lawful verdict at the time. He had sought the expertise of a theologian and proclaimed that it was beyond doubt that the two women were “engaged in superstitious acts”.
(Source)
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:26 am
That’s a damned shame.
walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:34 am
Why has Freethoughtblogs now started sending me email notifications every time someone posts on the Endless Thread? And how can I stop this?
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:38 am
Walton, you must have checked the box.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:38 am
Under the ‘Leave a Reply’ box is a checkbox with “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.” I suspect that if you uncheck the box it may stop filling your inbox.
BTW, Wife (who grew up in Lexington) wants to know if Ruggles (a British-style pizza restaurant) is still in Harvard Square?
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:39 am
Walton, look at the bottom of the screen when you type out a reply. See the line Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting. Is the box checked? Uncheck it.
Monado, FCD:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:47 am
Laughing Coyote, pet stores have (or used to have) tubes of fine sandpaper that you could slip onto birds’ perches to keep their claws trimmed. I’m sure you could improvise with your own sandpaper and a bit of glue.
However, people do hold birds for measuring and tagging, so maybe you could just hold him and trim the claws or get a friend to do so. It sounds like a bit of a three-handed operation. Or you could wrap him in a handkerchief with just the feet sticking out, for the required 30 seconds or so.
Then do the sandpaper perches so they won’t grow back so quickly.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:48 am
Walton, I accidentally your inbox!
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:50 am
Miley Cyrus and Ke$ha will be covering Bob Dylan.
I am feeling tangled up in something and it is definitely not blue.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:50 am
Yes, I must have checked the box by accident. The problem is now solved. (I managed to access the “Manage my subscriptions” page and deleted my subscription to the thread.)
Monado, FCD:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:50 am
Pet stores also have some hard calcium carbonate stuff for birds to strop their beaks on–cuttlefish bone, I believe it’s called.
I see you trimmed the claws by stealth–good for you!
First Approximation:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:52 am
As long as he doesn’t post those creepy fuckin’ analogies, I don’t think he should get banned. I actually do think we were getting to him before. He kinda reminds me of another young naive English commenter, except for being far, far, far more out there.
David Marjanović, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:52 am
O hai! Not caught up, of course. Among other things, one of onion girl’s kittehz doesn’t leave me enough time. ^_^
Good news:
Scientists join Occupy Baltimore.
In France, there is no gay marriage (though teh gheyz can has Marriage Lite, called PACS, which is open to everyone and most common among young hetero couples). In comes a woman in the body of a man, marries a woman, has 3 children in 15 years with her, and then transitions. What happens to the marriage??? Attorney General sez it stays. Lawyer says gay marriage is just around the corner. Harold Camping may only have been off by two months this time. :-) News feature in German citing AFP (Agence France Presse).
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:54 am
Eh… not to my knowledge, but I haven’t explored all the side streets around there. (There is, however, a good pizza place called Oggi’s in the Holyoke Center, by the university health clinic. And there’s also an excellent vegetarian-fast-food place to which I was introduced a few weeks ago by MrFire.)
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:05 am
Walton:
Considering she hung out there 25 years ago, there are probably a few changes. Newbury Comics is still there, right?
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:44 am
Caine,
Poor Alfie. And I will agree, rat nuts are huge.
The heat lamp in Emery’s tank just blew. *sigh*I do not want to have to replace that right now, but it’s gonna be hella cold tonight, so I gotta.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:50 am
Audley, thanks. Oh man, you gotta replace the heat lamp already? Shit. Order extras.
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:40 am
sandiseattle, I am way too tired and depressed to tell you about the Tea Party. Google is your friend.
-
*confetti*
-
I’m sorry to hear that Alfie is still under the weather.
-
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:30 am
How the hell do you get yourself out of a real slump. Weeks go by like days. Every evening I get off and I think I’ll do something but I don’t. I veg around (like the people I used to scoff at who worked all day and then just watched TV and waited around to die) and then go to sleep.
It’s pathetic and worthless. I hate it.
How the fuck do you stop it though? It seems like I just come home and sleep then work then sleep then work then…
and I don’t even get paid enough for such a worthless and meaningless existence. It’s utter shit. But when I come home, nothing seems to happen. I just *don’t* fucking do anything I mean to anymore.
Part of it is not having enough alone time, I know that. I have almost none anymore, and it’s not totally in my power right now to fix that.
But even when I do, I’m still just not using it. What the fuck can one do?
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:30 am
Would you like to be truly educated? Fear!
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:35 am
Maybe I should set a clear goal, like “One creative project a day start-to-finish (or else it will never get done” for one month.
Then see what the fuck happens, because I can’t see a point in going on like this.
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:44 am
Remember Eugene Delgaudio? The great fighter of traditional values? The one who got your e-mail addresses (Be them real and fake.) for his fraudulent petition? If anything, he is becoming more unhinged.
Conservative Traitors Opened The DoorTo Radical Homosexuals
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:45 am
Algernon:
I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but on my latest piece, I lost all motivation some time ago. That’s why I started the blog to document daily work. That motivation worked – even when I don’t feel like working on it, I have to have something to photograph and post.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:54 am
Alfie is dead. Chas is damn near hysterical.
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:57 am
My condolences.
myeck waters:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:58 am
Damn, Caine, sorry to hear that.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:02 am
Janine, Myeck, thanks. Poor baby, he only made it to 1.5 years.
Rey Fox:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:02 am
Sorry.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:10 am
Thanks, Rey. I held Alfie’s body for Chas, who groomed and cleaned it for a while. Now Chas is lying on my lap, boggling.
Ray, rude-ass yankee:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:12 am
Caine, Fleur du Mal@578, Damn that’s rough. I’m so sorry. I’ve been lurking and reading TET trying to keep up and from the updates it sounded like he was getting better. I hope Chas can calm down. Best to y’all.
Condolences
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:18 am
Ray, r-a y, thank you. The infection was just too much. Chas has had it rough, he’s been upset that Alfie was sick, now he’s being uncharacteristically quiet.
We’ll think about getting him a new companion or two next week.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 28th, 2011 at 4:27 am
My condolences for Alfie, Caine. He was clearly a great rat.
Ray, rude-ass yankee:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:33 am
Algernon@575, Just my $.02 of course but if it helps to motivate and energize you then go ahead, but don’t get stuck on the “start to finish” part. Sometimes a creative project can take more time to gel. Maybe something like Caine’s approach (@577) with documenting progress every day. Kind of an incremental thing.
Keep trying, don’t ever give up. The best is yet to be!
G’night everyone.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:43 am
TLC, thanks. Alfie was a fabulous personality. A tremendous explorer, tracking rat and cat chaser. He’ll be missed.
Kseniya:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:44 am
Caine: Oh, dear. We had two generations of pet rats when I was a ‘tween and my brothers were still in elementary school. They were pretty nice pets, being quite a bit smarter than the smaller (and allegedly cuter) gnawing critters. Sorry to hear that Alfie didn’t make it. Even under the best of circumstances, rat life expectancy isn’t very long, so it’s hard to see one go ahead of his time. We lost one of our first pair at a very young age (maybe 4 months) and our friends never really got why we were so sad about it. Hug.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:49 am
Kseniya, thank you. It is hard to see them die so young.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:51 am
Oh Caine :( I’m so sorry. *hugs, chocolate, swill, hugblankets, the works* Little guy had a great life, and great friends, and lots of love, and that’s the most any of us can ever ask for. But I’m sorry.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:55 am
CC, thank you. ♥. Chas needs my attention now (at least, he’s demanding it at the moment.) We’ll go out and bury Alfie tomorrow.
chigau (meh):
October 28th, 2011 at 5:08 am
catching up from the bottom
Caine
I’m so sorry about Alfie.
*hugs*chocolate*
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:09 am
Aah, peanut butter. Chas’s idea of the perfect comfort food.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:10 am
Chigau, thanks. Chas is indulging in peanut butter, which seems to be making things better for him. Goofball.
Beatrice, anormalement indécente:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:16 am
Oh, I just open this for a minute before work and there’s sad news.
I’m sorry to hear about Alfie, Caine. A hug if you want it. And a little hug for Chas.
Tethys:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:24 am
Caine
I’m so sorry about Alfie. I’m sure from all your stories that he was well loved. Losing our furry friends is always sad, most especially when it comes too soon. *hugs/chocolate/tea/snuggly soft blanket for you and Chas*
Crudely Wrott:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:30 am
Farewell, Alfie, small one.
You were a welcome addition to the Horde and a source of great delight.
We will miss you.
Condolences to you, Caine, and to Chas.
.
.
.
.
.
. . . need Kleenex now
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 28th, 2011 at 5:46 am
Lots of people don’t ‘get’ rats, but anyone who’s owned them and actually paid attention gets it.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:56 am
Oh, how sad. I was just popping in to say good night, and now I learn that Alfie is no more? What a sad day. Well, he was a well-loved rat. And now he is a well-mourned rat.
Here’s to Afie.
*pours one out for Alfie*
May all beings know such love.
Gnight all. Wish me luck at my job interview
tomorrowstrike> in eight hours. It’s a low-paid food service job, but it’s at the coop so if I get it I’ll get a major discount on all kinds of delectable organic produce and food products. And it’s temporary.It’s been hard really taking good care of myself lately. Low motivation, just want to stay in bed all the time, play games, watch movies. It’s hard even just admitting that this is a problem for me. Thanks for being here.
Sally Strange, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:57 am
Dang, I am tired. Sorry.
It’s a low-paid food service job, but it’s at the coop so if I get it I’ll get a major discount on all kinds of delectable organic produce and food products. And it’s temporary.
It’s been hard really taking good care of myself lately. Low motivation, just want to stay in bed all the time, play games, watch movies. It’s hard even just admitting that this is a problem for me. Thanks for being here.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:15 am
Caine, I’m sorry about Alfie. (And I’m also sorry for snapping at you the other day about the bluharmony thing. In retrospect, it was very bad timing.)
And Sally, good to hear about the job.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:16 am
(and good luck with the interview.)
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:20 am
Good morning
Caine
I’m sorry about Alfie.
I hope Chas comes around soon.
Sally Strange
Fingers are crossed. You had an exceptiona amount of bad luck lately and I hope this will change now.
I “need” creativity. When I’m not doing much in that department, even though there are projects enough, it shows that I’m doing badly.
But I know what you mean, I need projects that show progress, too.
What have you thought about?
pelamun
Well, I’m glad the CDU remains strong. What would happen to us if we admitted that there were times in our history when law was shitty and unjust, especially if it was a mixture of holy and state law.
Keep showing people that you give shit about innocent women.
Kind of reminds me of the “no DNA testing after you’ve been convicted” verdict Walton cited.
LS:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:21 am
@mythusmage:
I honestly don’t know the exact specifics, she started having seizures at age 14 or so, and her mother signed her up for disability. After she moved out and got a job, they reduced and finally removed her disability and Medicaid. Her Disability came up for review, and they decided to drop her entirely. Not sure why.
Her epilepsy has recently gotten worse, and she’s having ‘cluster seizures’, where she has a dozen or more seizures in a 30 minute to 1 hour period.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:21 am
Oh no, poor Alfie. My condolences, Caine, and some e-hugs too.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:27 am
He’s been here a long time, as you know. I am a bit torn over that one, we’ve had so many fights, I don’t even remember, but every now and then he does say something of value, or something that I wasn’t aware of. So yeah, he’s not the worst I guess….
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:28 am
Caine,
sorry about Alfie.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:28 am
Beatrice, Tethys, Crudely Wrott, Sally, Walton, Giliell and Alethea, thank you very much. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Chas is much calmer now.
Sally, best of luck with the interview, tentacles crossed for you.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:29 am
Pelamun, my thanks. :)
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:32 am
The Walton needs to sleep. He has been up all night writing a paper and it is now half-past two in the morning, and he is tired enough to do something so pretentious as to write about himself consistently in the third person. Also, his brain hurts.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:34 am
I can haz linky ?
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:41 am
rorschach,
her twitter username is the same as the one she used here.
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:59 am
I will likely be forever baffled as to why people think they can get away with saying that they’re a better person for making a claim and refusing to back it up =/
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:12 am
Ah thanks pelamum, btw, my dad sent me the same link you posted above.
As to bluharmony, remind me, isn’t that the one who put all this private info about herself onto the wiki in the first place ? I haven’t been following, sorry. Reading twitter now.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:24 am
Rorschach:
Yes. After discovering the entry, she added all the personal, identifying info, then whined and moaned about it being taken down. She didn’t care about personal info, but she used it to get all the links to things she’d posted (and the criticism) disappeared.
She’s still going on about it being taken down, touting it all over as a major victory and a sign of how powerful she is, what with being a mighty lawyer and all.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:24 am
Hm, those tweets are intriguing indeed. Brian Dunning, Kylie Sturgess, Metamagician (Blackford) ? Seems like blu has found herself some allies.
Btw, a blog Blackford linked to the other day turns out to have the Hoggler on his blogroll.
This is all very regrettable, and I have absolutely no clue how it all turned out to become some sick Lord of the Flies rerun.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:28 am
rorschach,
which link is that? The one about the women burned at the stake?
Re BH
Yes, that’s her. If you wish to see the original page in order to better assess her claims, shoot me an email, I have saved it on my computer.
I’m a bit worried that she will now talk people into believing that the page really had unsubstantiated claims about her. Ophelia Benson on twitter seemed to appear at least neutral about this claim of BH’s.
you_monster:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:29 am
Hi everybody. I heard about this phenomenon where you can suppress the gag reflex by clinching your left thumb in your palm. I was wondering if anyone had heard of this, or could confirm this effect. If so, what is the mechanism behind this response.
I have a terribly severe gag reflex. I avoid going to the doctor when I think I have strep because the test for it is more traumatizing to me than suffering through the illness.
Is this a legitimate means to suppress gagging? I couldn’t find many scholarly articles on it.
Thanks in advance to anyone with any input.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:34 am
And then there is this :
I imagine the conversation went something like this :
blu : Hi, my name is XY, I’m from the USA, and I’d like you to tell me what Rebecca Watson’s floor and room number were when she was staying there back in June.
Hotel clerk : *blink*
Goodness. What is this supposed to prove anyway ? That the elevator ride wasn’t long enough to propose Watson ? Jebus H Christ.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Rorschach:
Yep.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:37 am
rorschach,
about her elevator research, you might also want to check the post on Greg Laden’s blog (“XXXX can kiss my ass”), and his talk of hotels with first floor zaniness…
Beatrice:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:49 am
Wow, if she actually went to check what floor Rebecca was on and isn’t just pulling that info out of her ass, that’s a seriously unhealthy obsession. Actually, even if she did make up the information, it’s still an unhealthy obsession.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:01 am
Beatrice,
she claims to have checked if coffee was available in the hotel rooms.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:04 am
in 624 above,there was an adverb missing, to the effect of “also/even/additionally”
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:09 am
You know, occasionally I really do get the urge to say violent things.
I restrain myself. But the impulse is there.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:13 am
I read through Laden’s post, thanks for the tip. And I think it was good of him to close comments. I reckon Matt Penfold wins one internet there :
In other news, love interest is hastily fleeing Bangkok as we speak, because in addition to the 50cm of water in her district already, major additional flood waters are currently only 15-20km away from the CBD. It’s going to get much worse before it gets better there.
julian:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:16 am
So this is what skepticism is all about.
sigh
At first I thought The Lousy Canuck was going to far with his accusations of denialism. Now I’m starting to think he’s right.
I’m not even upset with any of them anymore (well most of them anyway).
Beatrice:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:17 am
pelamun,
People in the office are now looking at me strangely for laughing so hard.
I don’t know should I fear or hope the next thing you say is that she also checked all men in single rooms on the same or above Rebecca’s floor.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:21 am
julian,
anything in particular you’re referring to? If so, do you have a link?
julian:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:34 am
@ pelanum
just this new egate chapter. They really are going all the way with this ‘true skeptic’ thing.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Yes, my dad lives close to Duesseldorf.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:43 am
Oh dear.
Did she also think about checking what type of elevator they have?
Because, there are fast ones and slow ones.
I will further propose the following experiment:
If you’re in the mood and have an acceptable sparrings partner ready tonight, at about 10pm, ask them if they’d like coffee.
Report whether you end up in the kitchen or in the bedroom (or on the kitchentable, whatever fancies you).
Let’s take science and skepticism to a whole new level!
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:49 am
julian,
didn’t see any particular post on the Lousy Canuck. But I think I
got it now. It’s along the lines of “a true skeptic questions the (feminist) dogma” or sth like that?
julian:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:00 am
It’s how they obsess over everything, make huge leaps in logic but call out every minut detail, misinterpret everything that’s said to them, preserve every slight ever done against, take screen shots of everything they write and how they refuse to beleive everyone isn’t out to get them while simultaneuasly arguing the world is finally waking up to the evils of their opressors. At this point they’ve become E-Gate Truthers.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Some more news:
- 200 North Koreans stranded in Libya as they have been barred from returning home for fear that news of the Arab Spring will become known in N.K. http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/10/27/north_koreans_in_libya_banned_from_returning_home
- Pope denounces atheists, praises agnostic in apparent misunderstanding that agnostics are “searching for god”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/281522/pope-praises-agnostics-michael-potemra
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:01 am
pelamun
It’s the “unless you have peer reviewed evidence I’m not going to believe that you have had cornflakes for breakfast” stance.
They completely fail to realize that it wouldn’t matter shit if RW had dreamed the whole episode while falling asleep on the elevator.
Urgh, I think I’ve just given them a new idea.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:05 am
julian, Giliell,
the atheist version of Birthers/Truthers
eeewww…
Beatrice:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Giliell,
Well, it was 4 in the morning. (just kidding)
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Beatrice,
well I had an idea that would work for a lawyer – just subpoena the hotel for the records of its security system, to get to the bottom of E-Gate once and for all!
And if the hotel tells you that the records no longer exist, you know the Atheist-Feminist Cabal is responsible for hiding the truth!
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Julian:
There really isn’t an “at this point” though. They’ve been saying this shit since July. It’s just intensified, thanks to people like Abbie giving them a home for their foment.
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Occupy San Diego is being evicted by police in riot gear.
julian:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:20 am
And she had been drinking after all.
That actually hurt to type. I’m one of those people who is prone to conspiracy thinking and the kind of crap you see come out denialist groups. My entire motivation behind adopting skepticism was because I recognized I was close to wearing a tin foil hat (no really. I had some pretty crazy thoughts running through my head in high school) and needed something to ground me. Skepticism seemed the way to go. It not only required you to consider the evidence but how you may be interpreting the evidence and how easily fallible you were in your conclusions. So seeing so many skeptics devolve into this crap sucks all the optimism right out of me.
Come on guys, be skeptical about your conclusions and your biases. Does this behavior seem reasonable given the claims made?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:29 am
Julian:
It isn’t about skepticism. It’s about a lot of people being confronted with their own privilege and sexism. A lot of people who chose to get defensive and have kept upping the ante in order to protect their privilege and sexism. Skepticism is simply being used as an excuse.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:36 am
julian
Any good tips how to get somebody to take the tinfoil hat off?
Mr. sometimes shows those tendencies.
You know, since famous person X died in a car crash, and car crashs are easy to arrange for, ergo X was murdered by the CIA/MI6/FBI/KGB…
Oh they don’t have any.
julian:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:40 am
I know and I’m sorry for trying to make out like it is.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:41 am
I’d just go with Occam’s Razor. And that vast bureaucratic apparatuses are bound to leak at some point.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:46 am
Actually I was asked this at a job interview once. What would you do if you were posted to the United States and an American colleague brings up a 9/11 conspiracy theory…
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:03 am
Caine, just read about Alfie (time zones) and wanted to say I’m sorry. I loved reading all your posts about living with the two of them – he must have been just about the best-loved and best-looked-after a rat can be.
Good luck with the job, Sally Strange (mmm for discounted Good Things!)
Algernon, that’s very hard to break (at least, I find it very hard). fwiw I think your idea is spot on, but maybe you could try starting with really small chunks of a goal? Just to begin with? So if you don’t manage to complete a whole project it doesn’t make you feel worse; it’s progress.
rorschach:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:09 am
In breaking news, CHOGM has embraced changes to the succession on the British throne, allowing women to be considered as successors, starting with Charles and working downwards. Or something. Also, monarchs can now marry Catholics. As if that was a pressing issue.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:12 am
Argh, I just realized that this part:
of what I’ve written to Sally Strange is of course meant for Algernon
Sorry for the mix-up
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:20 am
IIRC, there were still reservations about a Catholic being British PM. So Tony Blair waited until he had left office to formally convert.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:25 am
opposablethumbs:
Thank you. :) Alfie was a terrific rat. He never was a cuddly sort and boggling was a rarity for him. He spent more time boggling this last two weeks than he did his whole life, which let me know our caring for him did matter and it was appreciated.
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:29 am
I’m really sorry about Alfie, Caine.
I haven’t been to the pharynguwiki page (don’t have the link), but I think given what bluharmony is saying about it now, it would be a good idea to note somewhere related to her name on it why her page was taken down. She’s claiming things that aren’t true, so there should be something in “print” on the site that documents that there was a page there and that it was taken down because the subject put personally identifying info on it but that the admins felt that to be a bad idea, or that it was taken down because the focus of the wiki changed to not emphasize trolls, or something like that.
theophontes:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:32 am
@ Caine #578
Hi Caine, so sorry to hear about Alfie. Thanks for bringing him round to TET, we’ll miss him.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Caine, condolences for the death of Alfie.
Setár, self-appointed Elf-lord of social justice:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Occupants are still at San Diego, even though the live stream got cut off and the cameraman arrested. Reports of a police officer with an assault rifle on Twitter.
Occupy Nashville and Tampa also got evicted.
But most importantly of all, the media was not allowed at Occupy San Diego when the police moved in. This is getting somewhere.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Caine, just waking up and reading before work. I’m sorry to hear :( That’s sad, you’ve been taking such great care of him.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:22 am
That’s a great idea. It might alleviate both my zombi-like state, and my guilt over never updating my blog.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart OM, liar and scoundrel:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Shit, Caine. That is awful. *hugs* to you and gentle smooches for Chas.
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
I hope everyone already reas it, but there’s a new hyperbole and a half, about why she hasn’t been posting lately due to depression. It’s sad and fantastic in the way she does so well.
Species8472:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
A Twitter exchange on #skeptics that PZ replied to got me a bit annoyed by the self-important people who demand we respect their world view.
I made it into a whole rant:
http://blog.itsfortytwo.net/2011/10/respect-my-worldview
Now for some coffee …
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
I just realised I was targeted by the Slimepit folks. Though my blog was probably too boring for them. But still, is there a club I can join now?
http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/08/have_you_ever_met.php#comment-5625530
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Looks like the thread I linked has become the Slimepit’s version of TET, it’s still active even though it started in August. And further upthread, lo-behold what BH herself wrote there, addressing the Slimepit folks
(lest I be accused of quote-mining: with two exceptions. Yeah, those two exceptions totally prove that she didn’t condone anything misogynist that was said over there)
AJ Milne:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Algernon: I trick myself into it by starting very small.
So I tell myself: just do one stupid little chord progression. It can be a dumb two chord hook six bars long and repeated thirty times or a completely bullshit cliche sketch of 600 words; it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t have to turn into anything. Just do it, record it or save it somewhere, leave it there. Sure ya can, champ*. Yes, you’re in a funk and a slump and the days are a fucking treadmill. But just do this one stupid little thing, anyway. And then use whatever’s left of the precious six seconds you actually had to yourself for sleeping or staring irritably at bad news, if you must.
And next night it’s: now add something to it. It’s just sitting there, after all. Just one little thing. Trivial, crappy, stupid, useless, doesn’t matter. Just do it anyway. Don’t feel inspired? Fine, just edit yesterday’s, refine it, if that’s all you got.
Me, I keep at that, and before I know it, either I’m in the mood again because something caught my interest, or, okay, maybe I only every was a tiny bit and for a moment or two, I’m already done something anyway, and that, actually, is better than nothing, and at least gives you a little something to tell yourself the next time you feel like that: it doesn’t matter. Who gives a rat’s ass? Yeah, I’m down. It happens. So what. I can work around it.
I do sometimes think I’m a mite prone to depression. Not terribly or nothing, but yeah, a bit. And I’m not quite the only one saying it, and some of ‘em should probably know. But I think I’ve just been at it so long, y’know, I function around it. I’ve done entire works people actually later told me they quite liked with only very limited bits of enthusiasm occurring at my end of the deal, in those tiny flashes, at best, through the whole thing.
What comes out of such efforts, oddly enough, can become something pretty cool, given long enough and enough effort. Or, okay, you’ll wind up burning them, to protect the innocent. Either way, it’s a bit of exercise, at least.
(/And yes, I know, I’m just full of advice this week.)
(*/For the record, in my actual inner monologue, I rarely use a phrase quite so irritatingly glib and likely to cause homicide as ‘sure ya can, champ’. But that is kinda the attitude.)
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Caine:
Sorry to hear about Alfie. You have my sympathy. Amazing the way the little furry things can worm their way into our hearts, ain’t it?
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Holy fucking shit. She just made a comic about my whole fucking life!
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
At the moment, the succession to the British throne follows the rule of “male-preference primogeniture”. So the throne passes to the monarch’s eldest son; if the monarch has no sons, it passes to the monarch’s eldest daughter. Sons always inherit before daughters. (So, for instance, the Queen’s sons Prince Andrew and Prince Edward are higher in the line of succession than the Queen’s daughter Princess Anne, even though Anne is older.) A woman can inherit if she has no brothers, however, as was the case with the present Queen when her father George VI died.
The proposal is to change the rule of succession – as has already been done in Sweden, for instance – to equal primogeniture, so that the oldest child always inherits, irrespective of gender.
(Historically, the British system was actually very progressive for its time. Historically, most continental European monarchies used “Salic Law”, which meant that only men could inherit. Some, such as the Austrian monarchy, used “Semi-Salic Law”, in which a woman could inherit only if there were no remaining male heirs in any branch of the family.)
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Also, David Cameron is a little clueless:
Technically, the monarch isn’t “the head” of the Church of England, but the “Supreme Governor” of the Church of England.
(And there’s no particular reason why the monarch’s religious role need continue, in any case. Though I don’t feel strongly about it either way.)
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Algernon – she’s getting a lot of comments saying the same thing. I just noticed that Token Skeptic here has a similar story, with a snake: here
trinioler:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Hey Caine,
Sorry to hear about Alfie. That is a terrible thing to go through. My condolences, and it was obvious he was very well cared for and loved, and he knew it. I hope Chas gets better.
Katherine Lorraine, Chaton de la Mort:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
@Caine:
*hug*
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Since we’re on the topic of primogeniture/monarch and religion, let’s talk about Japan:
Primogeniture and female succession
There have been female Empresses (as sovereign I mean) in Japanese history, but that was 1,000 years ago and back then the real power was in the hands of a chancellor, who was effectively ruling instead of the regenbt, who was nominally governing for the Empress or the Emperor (and sometimes even abdicated Emperors were in the mix too) – yeah Japanese history has always been complex about the question who actually ruled.
But when the current crown prince’s wife couldn’t conceive, and after years of pressure*) finally gave birth to a girl, for a brief moment, it looked like conservative monarchists and feminists would join hands in Japan to change the law of successoin, but alas, the crown prince’s younger brother’s wife then gave birth to a son, and he willl take precedence.
*) here we can see how misogynist the institution of monarchy truly is: here we had a self-confident woman, a diplomat schooled in Oxford and Harvard and fluent in a couple of languages (I’m typing this from the road so I might misremember a thing or two), and then she marries the Crown Prince, and very shortly after that her spirit is totally crushed, by the pressure, the misogynist rituals (like walking three steps behind her husband), all these arch-conservative mandarins from the Imperial Household Agency
Monarchy and state religion:
yet another aspect monarchy violates modern democratic principles. But in Japan, the most important role of the monarch has always been the function of a high priest of Shintoism, since ancient times. As I’ve alluded above, for vast periods of time, the actual power was never in the hands of the Emperor, that was always just a symbolic idea (no wonder the dynasty has endured continuously, as the real rulers could always count on the Yamato clan, whoever came on top). In a way, the title Emperor is a misnomer.
And it’s a big violation of the separation of state and shrine (I guess that’d be the Japanese version), which is mandated by the Japanese constitution (though one dictated by the US), and it’s an embodiment of privilege. There are Japanese that don’t belong to Shintoism, after all..
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
FTFY.
The British monarchy was way ahead of its time when it came to gender equality. The Kingdom of England, and later that of Great Britain, had ruling Queens – Elizabeth I, Anne, Mary II, Victoria – in an era when women could not vote or hold positions of leadership in most European societies. The system of male-preference primogeniture is anachronistic now – and it should be changed, certainly – but in its historical context, it was exceptionally progressive.
(Number of women to succeed to the throne in Great Britain since 1789: 2.
Number of women to be elected President of the United States since 1789: 0.
Number of years that Britain has had a woman as head of state since 1789: 123. (1837-1901 and 1952-present.)
Number of years that the United States has had a woman as head of state since 1789: 0.)
And some monarchies have already changed the line of succession to adopt equal primogeniture: Sweden did so in 1980, for instance, and the current heiress apparent is a woman, Crown Princess Victoria. There is nothing inherently misogynistic about monarchy.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Dammit. Why doesn’t the strikethru tag work any more?
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
Haha, keep deluding yourself. That’s all I can say for now, as I’m in a car right now. Probably in the interest of anyone else here, I WON’T elaborate later, I’m sure people will agree without me having to spell it out.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus):
October 28th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Yeah I’m gonna echo pelamun here, that was a bit of a WHAT? statement for me too.
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
I guess the fact the British Monarchy is not misogynistic explains why it has taken till now to realise that primogeniture discriminates against women.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
I said that there is nothing inherently misogynistic about monarchy. I did not deny that many monarchies have been misogynistic; many monarchies have existed in highly sexist and patriarchal societies, because most societies have been highly sexist and patriarchal.
But this does not mean that the concept of monarchy is inherently misogynistic. A gender-equal monarchy is absolutely possible: and, indeed, such monarchies exist (in Sweden, for example).
In the US, no woman has ever been elected President, thanks to a long history of ingrained misogyny in the culture. Does this mean that the concept of a presidential republic is inherently misogynistic? Of course not. It is not the form of government that is misogynistic, but the culture surrounding it. And that’s what needs to be changed. Replacing hereditary succession with presidential elections, or vice versa, will not magically make a difference to gender equality.
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
There is also at least one example of a legal heir being usurped because she happened to be female.
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Walton,
Well a monarchy does start from the position that one group of people are more important that everyone else.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
With freethoughtblogs, you need to use the full word strike instead of the letter s. <strike>example</strike> =
exampletrinioler:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
The reason for that is so people don’t abuse rendering quirks and sneak a script tag in there, so they can run javascript.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
Oh, ok. Thanks, Nerd.
aladegorrion:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
I’m so sorry to hear about Alfie, Caine.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@ pelamun
Yup, I have to echo pelamun here. But only in the contemporary monarchies. In days of yore it was the High Priestess that swung the scepter. The king was a lowly sex toy. My, how humanity has sunk since the swing to patriarchy.
@ [Rachel Maddow]
OK, I think Rachel Maddow is flippin’ fantastic.
HOWEVER…. she really must learn how to pronounce the Koch brothers surname. It is not “Coke”. It is pronounced with the “Ko-” part as the front end of “cough”. The “-ch” part is pronounced as the “kh” in “Khartoum”. Yes it sounds like clearing snot from the roof of your mouth. Quite appropriate rather.
The Ys:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Um, what?
Monarchies were started by men with swords who raised armies, subjugated people, and killed those who disagreed with them or who rebelled against them.
Men. Patriarchy. Etc.
It’s incredibly rare to read about a woman establishing a monarchy. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever come across a mention of this occurring.
The Ys:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Caine – I’m sorry to hear about Alfie. :(
curiouser:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
theophontes:
Is that really true? If so, the Wikipedia entry’s pronunciation needs to be fixed (unless I’m reading it wrong?), and a close family member I have who works at the company has been getting the name wrong for a decade or so now. Wouldn’t that be funny. I always had to say “No, not Coca-Cola, Koch as in the huge scary private company.” (Back before people had heard of the Brothers or the Industries.) A different pronunciation would make that much less difficult to clarify…
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
How can one argue that treating one group of people as being more important than another group is wrong when it is in respect of sexism and men being treated as being more important that women, but a good idea if the groups are a hereditary ruling family and their subjects ?
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Vincent Tabak, the person who killed Jo Yates and who has been discussed here has just been found guilty of her murder. He has pleased guilty to manslaughter but the plea was rejected by the prosecution.
He has been given a life sentence and will have to serve at 20 years before he can be considered for parole.
First Approximation:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
I’m going to disagree with people here and say that’s technically true. While monarchy’s history is unquestionably misogynistic, you can theoretically set up a monarchy that is not. However, hereditary monarchy is inherently anti-egalitarian, anti-democratic and unfair. Which raises the question of why bother updating this medieval relic and not just scrap altogether?
Anyway, we’ve had the monarchy debate with Walton here many, many, many times before and it doesn’t look like either side is changing its mind. The last time I had it with Walton was in meatspace among sheep and wool. Later that night we put a crown on his head. For me, that’s great place to leave it.
Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women):
October 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@Caine – I’m so sorry to hear about Alfie. It was lovely the way you brought him into the lounge with you.
Moggie:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Carlie:
Oh boy, the death of feelings. Been there, done that.
a_ray_in_dilbert_space:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Caine,
Sorry to hear about Alfie. It’s enough to make you want to get a parrot or a tortoise–something that will outlive you.
You gave Alfie a good home, plenty of love and plenty of stimulation for his tiny, little rat brain. He died warm and in comfort. A rat could expect no more.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Monarchy is inherently misogynist because the hereditary principle puts pressure on the woman, regardless of whether she is queen or the consort, to bear children. I mean you did read my story about the Japanese crown prince’s wife who had her spirit crushed also BECAUSE she couldn’t conceive. And of course SHE was the one who was blamed (though one time a German newspaper made a joke about HIM, titling a photo of him with “Tote Hose”, a slang term, lit. “dead pants” meaning “nothing going on”, it’s also the name of the OTHER great German punk rock band; of course the Japanese ambassador got all huffy and protested yaddayaddayadda – how dare you put the blame on the man).
Theophontes,
German immigrants to the US have been known to change the pronunciation of their names, sometimes even Anglicise them. Two World Wars will do that to you…
Matt Penfold:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Plus, it has to be said, a good number of Americans don’t do foreign pronunciation.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
First Approximation # 692
+1
Walton would do a better job of it than most, I suspect. But I’d much rather a pantomime crown on the head of a thoughtful and compassionate person than a real one on the head of someone so far removed from the trials of normal life that s/he wouldn’t recognise them if they bit hir on the arse.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Also, German immigrants have generally been among the groups that have assimilated rather quickly. Well apparently 1/3 of Americans have German ancestry.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
I guess you get around the hereditary principle by setting up an electoral monarchy, like the King of the Holy Roman Empire, or the Pope. But then you might as well get a ceremonial president…
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
I guess you COULD get around….
SteveV:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Caine:
Many of us who never met Alfie ‘in the flesh’ will miss him.
I know I will.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@ curiouser
Koch
Sounds great in Dutch, less so in English. Trust me on this one.
[wikipedia]: /ˈkoʊk/ gillende geile gadverdomme KOCH …. this is 100% wrong.
@ FA (former Feynmaniac … kewl nym)
Woah Safari! Much, much older. As Walton will confirm. Religions and monarchies ALWAYS reflect their underlying societies. There was a long time when the women where in the lead. It was only recently that teh menz tried taking over. There are still several fully functioning matriarchal societies out there. The old religions worshiped female gods. Yahwe is a pathetic johnny-come-lately.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
wherewere That is teh wherewolf speaking.Moggie:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
I will raise a glass tonight to Alfie, a wise and generous relative who I wish I could have known better.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
thephontes,
can you give me examples with sources of real matriarchal societies? Because the only ones I can come up with are matrilineal or matrilocal ones, and everyone knows that these societies can still be full of patriarchal shit.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
oops,
theophontes,
my apologies.
First Approximation:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
I was talking specifically about the British monarchy.
When were women in the lead?
I’d also like some examples. From what I’ve read, there are no unambiguous examples of (human) matriarchal societies.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
@ pelamun
I realise there have been some changes to fit in. But I would find it kind funny if Rachel Maddow would start using the real ethnic Dutch (not German, as far as I know) pronunciation. Koh-KH. kekeke. Kinda funny.
Sadly matriarchal societies have been dying out for millenia. There are still several in China. Including true matriarchal societies. The Southwestern Yunnan province is full of them. (Though the largest minority, the Dai, are not full matriarchies, the Mosuo people are truly matriarchal.)
European societies where matriarchal up to a few thousand years ago. The Greeks even report of matriarchal tribes during the Golden Age. This menz shit is a pretty new idea.
Well there is theaphontes, spawnphontes and theophontes…
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
The place where I did my fieldwork research (a remote place in SE Asia), some ethnic groups were patrilocal, some were matrilocal, but they were patriarchic all the same. Big factor contributing to this, their adopted religion, either Islam, or Catholicism, though I daresay that their traditions were partly patriarchal even before the advent of missionaries in the reason.
First Approximation:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
The patriarchy shit really started to come around the time of the development of agriculture and domestication.
Anyway, from Wikipedia’s article on matriarchy:
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
@ pelamun
Mosuo are pretty damn matriarchal. The Dai are not so straightforward. Societies are traditionally run by women, but the men are still very important. (Unlike amongst the Musuo.) It is more a fairly distinct seperation of roles. The women take authority AND responsibility(and it is hard work). (Contrast this with the “wham, bam” rethuglicans and teh menz.)
In an offshoot of the Dai, the Honi, the woman are also very strong within society. They would make great pharangulites.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
theophontes,
according to Hua Cai, the Mosuo are rather matrilineal than truly matriarchal.
A society without fathers or husbands: the Na of China.
(This is referenced on the Wiki article on the Mosuo. I just got me the book, so I’ll check it in more detail.)
But in the mean time, this quote from Wikipedia:
The Sailor:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Caine, I just caught up to # 578, I’m so very, very sorry about Alfie.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@ pelamun
Yup, the whole entitlement of the “nobility” in China is a huge factor in screwing up the ideal. I would treat the Pfft of All Knowledge with the same regard as they deserve for screwing up the pronunciation of “Koch”.
But I would be glad to hear from you if my views on the Mosuo have been corrupted by my own rosy coloured spectacles.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Well I’ve first ascertained that Na indeed are Mo-Suo. For the rest I’d need to read the book a little bit in more detail. I’ll see if Wiki represents Hua correctly or not. Watch this space ;)
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
(For example with the Dai, they do not entertain non-Dai, “uninitiates” into ceremonies or lore. It is hard to gain a real picture of what the societies are about in terms of these “blind spots”. Also, they are constantly changing.
I have had he good fortune to travel a lot in these areas (not the Mosuo though) and to meet up with some very knowledgeable people in this regard. I still have very much to learn and probably will never get the whole picture.)
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
theophontes,
I don’t know if effort to get into these societies, staying there for years, even for a PhD. Hua seems have been trained in France (the book was originally titled Une société sans père ni mari: Les Na de Chine). I’ve made only good experiences with French anthropologists in my area ;)
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@ pelamun
The most knowledgeable person I have met (wrt the Dai) is Gao Lishi, who has written extensively on his experiences with the Dai. He is married to a Dai princess (there are quite a number – Walton take note).
You might be able to get hold of his: “A collection of Gao Lishi’s Research Works on the Dai”. (ISBN: 7-5367-3541-3). He is also very knowledgeable about water management and agriculture, which gives this a unique perspective.
Esteleth:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I foolishly decided to debate the MRA over in the circumcision thread. Should have known better.
Among other things, I learned that white American middle-class women control 80% of the country’s wealth! Oh, and we’re living in a matriarchy.
I’ve been caught in a CLEAN ALL THE THINGS spiral for the past few days, which is never healthy. Stopped when my roommate asked me why the spice rack was alphabetized by chemical formula / binomial species name. *twitch*
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
I should also add that, whatever the hidden truths are about Musou society, they have a very real idealised existence within the Chinese consciousness. They are certainly perceived by most as being an inversion of the male oriented status quo. This alternative form of society might be more important as myth, than reality (as you suggest), but I am still for it.
(If I was to bet, I would call it a real matriarchal society. It is more likely to be as it appears.)
My experience in Yunnan has been very much in support of very (by Chinese standards) empowered women running the show. Women clients, women CEO’s, women managers… This is a very strong reason why Yunnan is my favourite part of China. I really think the whole world would be better off following this way of doing. (Actually I have a lot of other reasons to think this, but I don’t want to commandeer the Endless Thread completely.)
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Caine, I’m so sorry. *hugs/boozes/chocolates/bacons* and commiserations.
-
*hug* for Sally Strange, and best of luck at your interview. And please do take care of yourself for us.
-
And damme if it doesn’t sound all too familiar <John Astin voice>…but I’m feeling much better now.</John Astin voice>
*enormous, slightly unhinged grin*
-
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
Lonely Boy
curiouser:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
theophontes:
Ah, that makes sense now. You’re talking about the original Dutch. I thought you meant we were pronouncing it differently than they pronounce their own name, which I would agree would be factually incorrect (and embarrassing for the employee). I don’t see how using their own pronunciation is really wrong for Maddow, though, considering it was most likely changed to fit when their ancestors immigrated, and she is using their own version, from what I understand. The existence of one (possibly original) pronunciation doesn’t make another one invalid, especially in the case of names.
I like the spirit of it, though. Coughing and hacking is too good for those guys, but at least it’s closer to what they deserve.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
@ Rev. BigDumbChimp
The Black Keys’s singer is a dinosaur… as much as they disavow it …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=x_PrT25o8Vs
(Dino’s are Ebil?)
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
I’m gonna have to start blogging again. This shit is just too easy:
Yeah. That whole ‘culture of life’ phrase he keeps using? I do not think those words mean what he thinks they mean.
cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
True. In theory, a monarchy with matrilineal primogeniture would be just as much a monarchy as the patrilineal variety, or straight first-come-first-serves primogeniture; or for that matter, a non-primogenital (*snerk*), last-royal-standing monarchy.
-
David Marjanović, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
Till right now, one of onion girl’s kittehz was sleeping next to me, on the sofa, with her back against my thigh, for something like 4 hours, following a round of purring. (Now only her feet and tail touch me.) That cat officially owns me. Every time onion girl leaves, teh kitteh cuddles herself against my shins and demands to be petted a lot, rubbing what must be her scent glands against me just like she does with all corners of furniture. (I can’t smell the scent.) She also sometimes jumps on my bed and dozes there before I get up.
I’m sure you can see them from Liechtenstein, but there aren’t any in the country itself, which is in the Rhine plain.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 28th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Wait a minute. IIRC, the main hamlet is in a valley…
myeck waters:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
David H. Koch is one of the underwriters for the PBS show NOVA, and at the start and end of every episode it is pronounced “coke”.
In the 1970s I knew a family named Koch. Pronounced it “cook”.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
When people ask “What is wrong with journalism these days?” here is a good example:
http://boingboing.net/2011/10/28/how-occupy-wall-street-cost-me-my-job.html
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Original story:
http://gawker.com/5854118/how-occupy-wall-street-cost-me-my-job
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
” What are the implications of this for a democracy founded on free speech ideals? Are these “teaching moments” like mine going to dissuade people who have jobs they want to keep from expressing their opinions, however benign?”
Indeed.
Katrina:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Oh, Caine, I’m so sorry. {{hugs}} for you and an extra spoonful of peanut butter for Chas should be coming through the USB port any minute now.
Janine Is Still An Asshole, OM,:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Earlier in this thread, I linked to a bit of asshattery by David Barton. No one said a think. So here is David Barton explaining we should have a biblical view of women. Love how he credits this to an Orthodox Rabbi.
Oh. And death to royalty.
Dhorvath, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
LS,
Catch-22, eh? This is not the sign of a healthy society. Sadly I have only outrage to offer, I don’t even live there and no little about how to escape the trials of your nation’s healthcare system.
___
mythusmage
I think it would be fair to point out that having been dehumanized is more than likely what leads someone to becoming an armed robber, while committing the act spreads that to the survivor as well. My sympathies are still stronger for the one than the other, and were it an immediate situation I know who I would act to help first.
___
Audley,
Snow? Ooof.
_
Err, I would watch Glenn without the Misfits.
___
Caine,
I am sorry to hear about Alfie. Give Chas an extra bit of attention from the wet coast.
___
Audley,
Can you get by with heater pads? Our frogs and our tarantula both had the heater pads which seem to last indefinitely and generate a good amount of heat for comfortable baking.
___
SallyStrange,
Best of luck with the interview.
___
rorschach,
Hope love interest can keep above the waters. That sounds very scary, keep us up to date.
___
Giliell,
Challenge accepted. I would expect something akin to all of the above though.
___
Carlie,
Thanks for that link. I hesitate to comment at all as I can grasp but poorly the troubles that too many find familiar in that comic. Still, it will stick with me whenever I ride with furious intent, eat skittles, or touch spiders.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
David, are you still here?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Carlie, Theophontes, Nerd, Algernon, Audley, Ogvorbis, Trinioler, Katherine Lorraine, Aladegorrion, The Ys, Muse, A_Ray, SteveV, Moggie, The Sailor, Cicely, Katrina and Dhorvath, Thank you all so very much. I’m smiling and crying a little.
♥ ♥ ♥
Dhorvath, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Caine,
Smiles and tears shared to be sure.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
I’ve never been a rapist either.
Abuse tends to be commonly experienced by abusers, but as an abuse survivor I will honestly be offended if you say that it excuses it.
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
You’re welcome and I understand.
Arkady:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Caine {hugs}, sorry to hear about Alfie
Question for the academic/tech geeks among the horde: I recently had to get a new computer due to old one dying, and it turns out my copy of Endnote X2 is not compatible with Word 2010. I heard vaguely some time ago of an equivalent open-source bibliography program, but for the life of me can’t remember what it was called. Any recommendations? I’m in the final, hectic year of my PhD (I used to think the UK system with 3-4 year time limits was better than the US with indefinite-length PhDs, now that I’m hitting the final year I’m not so sure…) so will need something reliable for thesis-bibliography.
Gyeong Hwa:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Caine, I’m so sorry to hear about Alfie. Hugs.
trinioler:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Caine, I cuddled Munchkin extra hard for you and Alfie today. She seemed to rather enjoy it and went to sleep in my lap while purring.
Aratina Cage:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Very sorry to hear about your loss, Caine. :(
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Algernon:
Emphatically seconded.
Arkady, Gyeong Hwa and Aratina Cage, thank you. ♥♥♥
Trinioler, that’s nice. Love her while you can. :)
trinioler:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Oh I certainly do. :)
Father Ogvorbis, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
We’re expecting somewhere between 4″ and 16″. All depends on where the low sets up off of New Jersey.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
Oh, little Chas. He just wants to sit on my shoulder and be fed peanut butter. At least peanut butter is a relatively cheap drug. :D
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Caine – snuggles for Chas, too.
We didn’t have snow here, but finally got wood delivered today from about a half hour away and it had been under 6 inches of snow before coming our way.
Speaking of shoveling, there’s some shit happening on today’s “why I am an atheist” thread if anyone’s sitting around bored.
Ooo, if anyone has open-source biblio programs, I’d be interested too.
Sili:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
So it goes.
Dhorvath, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
Ogvorbis,
We aren’t really that far along in autumn yet, snow still feels very distant. Remember that small shovels more often is actually faster than big shovels and injured.
___
Carlie,
Noted.
Sili:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
pelamun says:
I thought he was at Mattir’s.
And I didn’t know oniongirl had a cat.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Carlie:
Thank you. He’s having some tea now, after setting some choice lettuce leaves aside in the ferret tent for Alfie. :sigh:
I found the entry unfortunate and distasteful, but I’m not going to get in the middle of those comments. I think it was mostly thoughtlessness, hopefully the person that wrote it will comprehend the problems now.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
?
onion girl, OM; imaginary lesbian:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Caine, I’m so sorry to hear about Alfie. :( Lots of *hugs* and chocolate coming your way.
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Sili – still sending virtual hugs and chocolate and liquor your way.
And for everyone – it’s been a hell of a couple of months around here, looking at everybody’s problems together. We need a Spanking Saloon holodeck we can all transport to on the weekends.
pelamun:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
Programs like JabRef, Zotero, Mendeley? Or something else entirely?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Onion Girl, thank you. ♥
Aratina Cage:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Dang, has anyone seen the controversy about James Randi’s partner?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl-amazing-randi-jose-alvarez-identity-theft-20111018,0,3618316.story
and
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/plantation/fl-amazing-randi-jose-alvarez-identity-20111021,0,6085219.story
I assume they mean life partner, as in lover. If so, it would seem that Randi fell into the same legal trap that all binational same-sex couples in the USA face since we are not allowed to sponsor our partners for a visa like opposite-sex couples can. Randi would have had it even worse than same-sex families today because the two apparently met in the 1980s before legal recognition of one’s relationship at the state level existed and before we ever had a president who is somewhat sympathetic to the plights of binational same-sex families.
This just fucking sucks! The news report says his partner is going to plead guilty to stealing someone else’s identity (a man in New York who is still alive), which probably means deportation and a very difficult road ahead for him and Randi.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
That’s very depressing, Aratina Cage.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Aratina Cage, that is utterly infuriating. We should be so much further by now, to say the very least.
Algernon:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Aratina Cage, am I confusing you with some one else or were you recently in a similarly difficult situation with your partner having to leave the country indefinitely? I’ve been gone for a while and I may also be getting confused.
I don’t mean to be invasive, just hoping things got better.
Sili:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
Carlie says:
Thanks, but what have I done to deserve such care?
Algernon says:
!
Sili:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
I do not like Andrew Napolitano. He tries to appeal directly to the audience, while turning his back on Jon Stewart who asked the question.
And he lives in Cloud Cuckoo Land.
Aratina Cage:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Algernon, you are not confused. That was me. My defacto husband’s visa ran out and he had to leave. Luckily, he was able to come back for a few years for work so we are hoping for the best (repeal of DOMA or sponsorship through work) by the time it becomes an issue for us again. Really, we are very lucky. So many families have no chance like we did and no way to launch a legal fight as some other binational same-sex couples have recently done; most either have to separate or live here or in the foreign country together under a lie. (And I can’t stress enough how if a binational same-sex couple legally weds, the marriage itself is grounds for deportation under federal law. Talk about fucked up!)
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Indeed. (I work in an immigration law clinic on campus, so this is an issue I’ve come across before.)
A US citizen who is married to a non-citizen can file a Form I-130 petition in order to get hir spouse Legal Permanent Resident (“green card”) status. This is one of the fastest ways to get a green card, since one can file the I-130 and I-485 (application for permanent residence) at the same time (unlike the other family-based petition categories, for which Congress sets annual limits, so one often has to wait years after filing the petition for a visa number to become available). But thanks to DOMA, the most misnamed and ridiculous piece of legislation in history, this doesn’t apply to same-sex couples – even if, as here in Massachusetts, they are legally able to marry under state law. It’s completely fucking stupid.
Repealing DOMA would be just the tip of the iceberg in fixing America’s screwed-up immigration laws, but it would be a good start. There is absolutely no justification for splitting same-sex couples apart by force, where an opposite-sex couple in the same position would have the right to stay together.
Sili:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:02 pm
But he did just come out in favour of unions.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Because the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth, apparently. Especially if one happens to be a furriner.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Carlie
That would be awesome, wouldn’t it? It would be such fun to virtually meet the far-flung horde!
.
Aratina Cage
Fuck. Of course not – that would be too much like recognising opposite-sex couples as real human beings with real relationships. How can people not see how unjust that is?
And I’ve just realised I don’t know whether – despite the existence of Civil Partnerships – same-sex couples can get “fiancé visas” in the UK either …
MikeG:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
Caine,
More hugs for you and peanut butter for Chas. That story about the lettuce is making me cry. my furry kids will get a little extra scritching tonight.
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
opposablethumbs: Yes. For most legal purposes, including those of Part 8 of the Immigration Rules, a civil partnership is treated as equivalent to a marriage. So the civil partner of a British citizen can apply for leave to enter and/or remain on the same basis as the husband or wife of a British citizen.
The rules are still ludicrously restrictive, but at least they treat same-sex and opposite-sex couples equally.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
MikeG:
Aaw, thank you. Chas is having a tough time, but he’s coping. He’s just so used to having Alfie around, that he does things from habit. I know that extra scritching will be appreciated. :)
Walton:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Of course, in a sensible world, it wouldn’t be an issue, because it would be possible to live and work wherever the hell one pleases without having to plead for the permission of a government in order to do so, and a person’s rights would not be defined by the accidental factor of where xe happened to be born. But that’s a faraway goal. All one can do is seek to make it better one step at a time.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
A quick google suggests that same-sex couples can in fact get a same-sex equivalent of the “fiancé visa” to the UK.
.
Apropos of nothing (TET rules OK) I was suddenly reminded earlier today that Carlotta Ikeda is perhaps the most wonderful dancer the world has ever known (British understatement ur doing it wrong but I don’t care). Well, in butoh anyway. I am a dance ignoramus, but she is so powerful it takes your breath away (I admit I don’t know much – hardly anything about dance. I’m mostly thinking of one time I saw her perform when she was younger – strength incarnate. I’ve read she is still like that even now that she is older).
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Oh, sorry Walton – I was writing (slowly) while you were posting. I thought you would certainly know all about this, but wasn’t certain if you were around right that moment (and it felt a bit presumptuous to just say “oh, Walton will know” – you know?)
The Sailor:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
USAtoady had an article about Unvaccinated behind largest U.S. measles outbreak in years
I was so surprised that the comments I’ve read so far seriously smack down the anti-vaxxers crowd.
I expected less from the people who read USA Today. (It came up on FARK.)
++++++++++++++++
Yeah, I was slightly bothered by the latest “why I am an atheist” post. I thought the post was touching and honest, if clumsy and unaware.
I thought the vituperative attacks on the writer were unjustified. A simple “ya know, this is where you fucked up” would have been sufficient.
slignot:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Caine, I’m so sorry about Alfie. I know it’s hard on pets when they lose a compaions, so I hope that Chas handles it okay in the next few days. Chocolate and alcoholic beverages added to the pile.
Immigration and marriage: people here have a much greater degree of experience in this area and it’s currently under discussion, but my question is a little bit off the current topic of same-sex partner inequity under the system. I have a cousin (once removed I think, but my extended family is pretty close) who is married to a Danish woman. She is here illegally and has been for years (I’d guess a total of eight or so based on their son’s age). I believe she’s using the fact that she’s not gotten a green card to avoid having to contribute to her household. She keeps lamenting that they have no money and that’s such a shame she can’t work to help out.
My aunts who are resident aliens have told her that she should just get it taken care of, but she whines that they don’t understand it’s so hard because she’s currently here illegally. Is this true? Is it actually the case that it would be difficult for her to get residency because she’s been here illegally since her marriage?
I should note that I personally don’t like her because I think she’s the laziest person I’ve ever met. She is sleeping or hiding every time I go to visit my elderly great-aunt, who they live
withoff of, and their place is perpetually filthy. (Not simply messy mind you, it’s actually a bit gross.) It feels like she just wants to not do anything at all, whether it’s help an old lady clean up or hold down a job.Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
Slignot:
Thank you. Chas is coping, but it’s still fresh.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
Eh. This is another one of those things where… it’s an open wound for some people.
Carlie:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Aratina, I’m glad it’s worked out for now. I hope it continues to do so. Also, very good to see you around more again. :)
The Sailor – most of the more vituperative comments were aimed at other commenters who swooped in to say there was nothing wrong with anything in the essay at all. And yeah, for people who are seeing that attitude for the five hundredth time, I think they had reason to be upset.
Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
Hugs and snuggles for Chas, and chocolatehugsswillwhateverelse to Caine. I don’t care if it’s a bird, a rat, or a dog – losing a pet too early is never easy.
————————————————-
It must be realizing that the anniversary of WinAce’s death is drawing close, or my job is really getting to me, but for the past two nights I’ve had bouts of crying. For the former, WinAce was only a few months younger than me when he died. I think that really drove home just how fragile and brief life is/can be. You’d think losing my dad just two months earlier would have done the job.
Tonight I’m tired, sad, and frustrated all at once. I feel like stabbing something or someone. We wouldn’t happen to have any life-size dummies of the Teabag Party figureheads, or maybe of the people at my place of work, in the back of the Saloon?
No? Right…off to play some DDO and hope that killing vampires and such will help me feel better.
The Sailor:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Classical Cipher “Eh. This is another one of those things where… it’s an open wound for some people.”
yeah, I get it.
Carlie, I do get it, but when I left the thread they were attacking the author. I thought the author had nothing but best intentions.
I didn’t find ‘man-boy’ insulting, it’s kind of an accurate description. It’s a boys thinking process stuck in an ever aging body. (That was badly phrased, like the author’s)
It is called ‘developmentally disabled’ for a reason.
I live next door to a foster family that has 2 developmentally disabled children. The boy is around 10 and kind of a bully, but when you call him on it he’s fairly amenable to reconsidering his actions. And not sullenly. e.g. He gets it that you shouldn’t throw rocks at the (tethered) dog.
His sister is about 14, she’s sprouting out all over, and she has no idea why ‘uncle jimmy’ is bringing her presents. Her foster parents seem aware of this.
I’ve lived next to these kids for 4 years. Soon she will be a woman-girl. I’m sorry if that offends, but men and women are treated differently in our society, and I would be stupid not to acknowledge it.
I just try to be a good neighbor, and treat people the same, but I do make allowances.
Does that make me condescending?
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
PTI, thank you. I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time. {hugses}
First Approximation:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Yeah….
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Bwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahah
First Approximation:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:09 am
From there:
Wow.
Carlie:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:10 am
The Sailor – but would you use them in a story about yourself, as an example of what a kind and generous person you are to be so good to those poor lesser people? I really don’t think you would. That’s what’s really being objected to, that the guy is so proud of himself for being kind to such a lesser being and doing so while thinking that he’s so superior.
I’ll stop, because I know this is a refuge from other threads where people don’t want to have stuff dragged in. But I did make a lot of comments on the other one, if you want to see my viewpoint on it.
David Marjanović, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:14 am
On rare occasions. :-) I’m busy with (among other things) a manuscript that has come back from peer review and needs additions, I suddenly have a social life in meatspace this month, and Freethoughtblogs is still much worse than ScienceBlogs at dealing with long threads.
I still haven’t mentioned (why do I keep forgetting such things?) that teh kittehz chirp like Jurassic Park “compies”*. It’s quite incredible. At least one of them can meow, but only does it at special occasions.
Sili, what goes how? And yes, I was in the Mattir House of Pets and Chaos (…Mattir’s term), now I’m at onion girl’s Apartment of Purple and Glitter and Stars and Butterflies where the cats have their own room (but don’t stay in it), tomorrow a Horde shall gather at the National Museum of Natural History in the Smithsonian Institution and I’m probably expected to give them a guided tour, and then the Mattir family plans to take me on a trip through West Virginia and its roadcut geology/paleontology. Then, Las Vegas; then, Los Angeles, and I still don’t know how many people want to meet me and/or each other there. Bliss all over, it’s just all too short. :-(
Caine, *hugs* *chocolate* *tea with honeybush custom-mixed for onion girl* *more hugs*
* In the book and the movie, cat-sized or smaller, predaceous, mildly venomous, attack in hordes large enough to kill people; in the book, stupidly lizardlike, complete with specifically lizard/snake skin, behavior like seen in some lizards and nowhere else, and all the rest of Crichton’s ignorance. “Based” on the Triassic (not Jurassic or Cretaceous) Procompsognathus, which was – in hindsight – a bad idea, because that animal is known from little more than a leg; the skull that came with it was identified as belonging to a crocodile-in-the-widest-sense in 1992.
ChasCPeterson:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:20 am
Memento mori
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:31 am
*sniff*
:(
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:32 am
David, thank you. ♥ Chas, I never forget.
ChasCPeterson:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:41 am
Caine, I do not doubt it.
It’s the young who need reminding. Or get it anyway. *shrug*
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:50 am
Chas:
You’ll get no argument out of me on that one.
ChasCPeterson:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:59 am
Yeah, but aw fuck I’m being an asshole I guess.
I am old and dissatisfied.
So what: enjoy yer youth; what the fuck. I’ll shut up.
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 1:09 am
Unfortunately, yes. I haven’t dealt with cases of this kind and don’t have any direct expertise; I’ve just spent the evening trawling through statutes, law review articles and the USCIS website to check, but I’ll have to do some more research before I give you a definite answer. But, since she is unlawfully present, my understanding is that she can’t file a Form I-485 application for adjustment of status from within the United States. Instead, she would have to leave the country and apply for an immigrant visa through a US embassy or consulate in her home country. Unfortunately, due to a nasty xenophobic piece of legislation passed in 1996 called the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA), those who have been unlawfully present in the US for more than one year are thereafter inadmissible to the US for ten years. So, if I’m understanding this correctly… if an undocumented migrant who is married to a US citizen wants to become an LPR, she has to leave the country; but, having left, she will not be allowed back into the country for ten years. It is possible to apply for a waiver of inadmissibility – Form I-601 – but this will only be granted if the applicant’s US-citizen-spouse would experience “extreme hardship” in the event of her being denied admission.
(Obligatory disclaimer: This is not legal advice. And I’m also not certain that I’m right; I’ll do some more digging and confirm at a later time.)
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 1:11 am
(That is, an undocumented migrant who has been unlawfully present for more than one year. If xe has been present for more than 180 days but less than one year, xe is inadmissible for three years. Again, there is the possibility of applying for a waiver on the ground of extreme hardship. But obviously it’s very risky.)
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 1:12 am
(This just illustrates the way that the present US immigration laws tear families apart, and seek to make people – including children – suffer merely for being born in the wrong place and for crossing a border without permission.)
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 1:52 am
I’m watching Five Easy Pieces.
Wholey Fuck.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:07 am
Chigau:
Heh. I saw that at the theatre when I was 12.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:12 am
Caine
Yeah.
I saw it about then, too.
Not precisely as I remember.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:13 am
Jack Nicholson had a nice ass and great legs, forty years ago.
Esteleth:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:14 am
US immigration law is completely fucked up and deeply cruel. The things it does to LGBT binational couples is horrid.
I have a pair of friends who are engaged. They’re utterly perfect for each other. One is American, one is not. They decided to not plan their wedding (they live in MA) because that would look like the non-American is intending to overstay her visa. So they (both highly educated in fields that desperately need talent) are planning to emigrate to the country where the one can sponsor her wife for residence.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:16 am
jebus
I was first and second!!!
(and third?)
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:25 am
Chigau:
I suppose. Not my type, not then, not now. Of course, when I was 12, I was completely preoccupied with girls. And my girlfriend.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:27 am
Chigau:
Does that count on the second page? ;P Now I’m glad that pagination’s in place, it really helps out when PZ is off saving the world.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:30 am
Caine
re Jack’s ass
As a fifteen-year-old I didn’t respond to his 30-something ass.
As a fifty-something, I do.
Isn’t life strange.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:30 am
If anyone’s interested, Alfie’s death photo.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:33 am
Chigau:
Ya know, I understand that perfectly. Life is just so eminently fucked up.
I’m doing that sort of thing with books right now. I never read many young adult books when I was young, so I’m doing it now, in my fifties. The Monstrumologist is the one I’m currently reading.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:34 am
Caine
I’m counting it as a “first!”.
I’m also liking the Five Easy Pieces sound track.
—-
I just went to make a peanut butter sandwich.
I’m out.
Does Chas have any to share?
trinioler:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:35 am
Can I just say how much I hate, hate, hate, HATE, the whole “color-blind” idea?
Dealing with it at Occupy Vancouver’s facebook page. One woman spoke out about a need for a safe space for women. She was immediately challenged and asked what had happened to make her feel unsafe, “I was unaware of any violent assaults that had happened.”
Oy and *facepalm*. Then there was the whole, “There is a safe space for humans, period.” Which is just…. rrrgghhh.
FINALLY got him to concede there may be a need after more women spoke up about their experiences and how uncomfortable they had felt at times. But he’s still harping on the whole “segregation” and “separate” issue.
This from a guy that claims the following resume:
“.like when i fought hard at the 1st United Church in the DTES for a separate women’s section or refuge for women because they were being sexually assaulted…there is so much to me you don’t know…..i think women should be seperate…like when in college i advocated for a safe house for battered women in a swanky neighbourhood in N. Van but got shut down. I have no patience for segregation in the Occupy Van site as all are equal and safe and welcome….!”
But having women speak up, and having guys tell him to fucking listen is actually having an effect. The women are eloquent and passionate, including testimonies like this:
” I agree with the OP. I don’t think men are always aware of what makes women feel unsafe. When I was facilitating last weekend, I had a man come on stage and grab me from behind. When I stepped off the stage, I was surrounded by men and it wasn’t comfortable. They were supportive, but hugs aren’t something that should be demanded. None of these things were noticed by the men around me. They aren’t sensitized to how easily women feel unsafe, sometimes. the amount of intoxication on site deters me from going by when it’s late and makes me nervous when I’m there/leaving – yet, when I brought up the issue of intoxication the first weekend, all that happened was an announcement was made that someone had asked about it – despite the lengthy debate about smoking on site. I feel like when women say what they need to feel safe/what makes them feel unsafe, they need to be listened to more attentively.”
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:35 am
Crap. I shouldn’t have looked :(
Awww… animals affect me more some times than people.
(Yes, I know, I’m not going to bother with the conflict there right now. Another time.)
trinioler:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:36 am
Oh and this great testimonial, from the same woman, Sasha Wiley:
trinioler:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:40 am
ARGH, and now one of the women is saying this:
What did we decide to call these people?
Esteleth:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Assholes?
trinioler:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:43 am
AUGH!
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 2:43 am
Now we are watching Catch 22.
The SO has never seen.
During the opening credits he is commenting on the accents of the dogs and crows and loons.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:44 am
Chigau:
Share? Peanut Butter? Those words don’t go together in the Chas ‘verse. Honestly, it acts on him like a drug, a nice little nosh of rattie downers.
Algernon:
Oh no, don’t be sad. I don’t want anyone to be sad. Alfie had a very good life and his death was a quiet one, just went to sleep and didn’t wake up.
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:45 am
Speaking of the stupidity of immigration laws, apparently Alabama’s draconian immigration statute is completely destroying the state’s agricultural economy, which relies heavily on undocumented migrant labour.
There’s something so sick and twisted about the whole situation… everyone knows that the farm economy in the southern US is very, very, very reliant on undocumented migrants. Yet there’s so much political resistance (backed up by stupid xenophobic arguments) against giving undocumented workers amnesty and a path to citizenship. Because, while people are evidently happy to hire undocumented workers, it would, apparently, be “un-American” actually to give them civil rights and protect them from exploitation and abuse. *sigh*
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:46 am
Esteleth:
Yep.
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:47 am
Immigration reform is a basic human rights issue. The treatment of migrants in the US – detention, deportation, tearing families apart, and depriving undocumented migrants of basic civil rights even though the economy relies on their labour, and so on – is appalling beyond belief. IIRAIRA in 1996 made it a great deal worse. And since the government doesn’t even pay for legal counsel for aliens in removal proceedings – immigration courts have no equivalent to the public defender system that exists in criminal cases – many migrants aren’t even aware of the legal remedies they have even under the grossly-unsatisfactory existing law.
Kseniya:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:47 am
> Five Easy Pieces.
I’ve never seen that. (Should I?)
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:48 am
Slimebag, impersonating an OM, in the Jim Mader thread. That means I’m out of there.
—
The picture actually made me smile a little for that reason. I’m glad he seems to have gone so peacefully.
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:50 am
Who is that person, and why are they referring to SC that way? From the slimepit thread?
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:50 am
But anyway, I’m sorry for filling the thread up with rants. I’m very sleepy and should go to bed.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:50 am
Kseniya:
Yes.
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:52 am
No no, it’s not that. It’s just the unbearable juxtaposition of cute and gone.
Though it’s a nice momento mori.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:52 am
As far as I can tell, it’s to make juvenile jokes by capitalizing certain letters of her surnym. If there’s another reason, I don’t know about it, but it’s a useful shibboleth.
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:54 am
Oh ok, I wasn’t sure if it was that or a TM incarnation. Fuck if I know. All I know is that they don’t have much of a point other than a list of people they don’t like.
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:54 am
I’m guessing “Slimebag” is the demonym for denizens of the Slimepit.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 2:57 am
It’s mine, anyway.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 3:03 am
Kseniya
Seconded on the “yes” for Five Easy Pieces
Just understand it’s now a “period piece” and the blatant sexism is part of the “milieu”.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:05 am
It’s true. But now that TU’s blatantly lying about me, I think we can be fairly certain it’s not TM (I don’t think that’s his style).
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 3:08 am
Caine
I have Eastern European in my background.
Death photos are completely normal.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:09 am
I remember reading Wisconsin Death Trip for a class. I cannot for the life of me remember why. It was such a strange, sad little book.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:10 am
CC:
I’d be extremely surprised if that was TM, given that he does respect those who have garnered a Molly. Also, he posts here as nothing sacred these days.
It’s someone who has been smacked around by OMs, and there are a lot of idiots in that category.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:12 am
Chigau:
Yep, they are.
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:17 am
No, I agree. That could never be TM. TU has gone on to be a complete liar, much more like a slimepit poster and really concerned about the word cunt.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 3:21 am
I don’t remember TM (truthmachine?) as being a liar or a coward.
Algernon:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:22 am
Ooh I have that! It’s really a nice and interesting little collection.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:23 am
TM is still over at SB, doing duty on threads with real and dumb trolls (txpip*r, S*lach**, Sh*l*h), as a Yahoomess. I don’t think he has migrated to FTB yet, nor do I know if he will.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:27 am
Nerd:
He posts here as nothing sacred.
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:31 am
837 comments? I only see 41 … What is up with yesterday’s comments on TET?
Walton:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:31 am
Nerd: Well, according to the same post by the latest troll, you’ve been beatified. (What do I have to do to become the Blessed Walton?)
(And the troll has also appended “OM” to his name without being a Molly recipient. Perhaps he’s a member of the Order of Merit, but somehow I doubt it. Alternatively, maybe it’s national Award Oneself A Title To Which One Has No Claim Day: if so, I want to be Duke of Devonshire, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, and a Knight of the Order of the Elephant.)
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:33 am
Theophontes:
Pagination kicks in at 800 comments. See the ‘older comments’ above Leave a Reply? That will take you to the first page.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 3:52 am
“chocolate covered cotton”
bwahahaha
theophontes, feu d'artifice du cosmopolitisme:
October 29th, 2011 at 3:53 am
Thanks Caine.
:)
kristinc:
October 29th, 2011 at 4:47 am
Caine, I’m sorry to hear about Alfie. I still think he was a lucky rat.
Aratina Cage:
October 29th, 2011 at 5:15 am
@Walton
Please don’t be sorry over that. I really appreciated your rants today about immigration laws.
@Carlie from #780 in previous comments:
Thanks! *blush* I am mostly lurking these days but am still around.
Aratina Cage:
October 29th, 2011 at 5:22 am
@Caine,
Algernon was right. Alfie’s death photo teared me up a little. I think it’s the first one I’ve seen outside of the news. Such a cute little rat he was.
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 5:24 am
Kristinc and Aratina Cage, thank you so much. Alfie may have been a lucky rat, but we were lucky people for having him.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 5:52 am
Because We got left-over breadandbuns from community events I have not made bread in almost a month.
Wish me luck.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 6:12 am
It’s sourdough.
And it’s not dead yet.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 29th, 2011 at 6:35 am
Oh, Insomniac, did you know WinAce personally? If so, have some hugs for the occasion. I remember him fondly from his online persona.
chigau (meh):
October 29th, 2011 at 6:38 am
I hate the oblate spheroid.
I wish we were all in the same time zone.
amblebury:
October 29th, 2011 at 7:55 am
Resoundingly seconded, Chigau.
I just picked up the news about Alfie – I’ve been following. I used to have a pet rat, Wes. He was brilliant.
A few of you know I’m dealing with the death of Sandy, my fourteen-year-old border collie, two days ago.
Hurts, all right.
Monado, FCD:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:06 am
Caine, just dropped in–so sorry to learn about Alfie.
rorschach:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Don’t worry about flying in for the Melbourne Cup, tourists : Qantas grounds entire fleet
Monado, FCD:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:15 am
Need new widget:
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:40 am
Partial bancrupty…
For those who need a smile (and like “cute kids stories”, I’m aware not everybody thinks them to be as cute as the parents):
The following scene just happened at here.
Daughter #1 (4 yo) picks up a sponge, holds it against her ear and goes “hello, who’s there?”
Her dad asks: Oh, is it a phone?
She gives him a long, hard, “are you stupid or what?” look and tells him: No, I’m only playing, that’s a sponge!
julian:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:53 am
This is late but
I’m sorry to hear about Alfie. I know it may not mean much but at least he died surrounded by friends and those who cared for him.
rorschach:
October 29th, 2011 at 8:57 am
Fun at Laden’s :
*BLINK*
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OM:
October 29th, 2011 at 9:35 am
What the
Wha
whtfk
oh fuck it i don’t even care anymore
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Amblebury, Monado and Julian, thank you. Amblebury, I am so sorry about Sandy. My condolences.
Rorschach, I’ll join you in that *BLINK*
Caine, Fleur du Mal عنتر:
October 29th, 2011 at 9:42 am
CC:
So nice to know we’re right up there with the klan, eh?
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces:
October 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am
@amblebury #56 – my sympathies re Sandy. Fourteen years is a long time, and they leave such a big hole in your life.
Carlie:
October 29th, 2011 at 10:21 am
So sorry, amblebury. There’s been a lot of loss lately.
I was the opposite – kept refreshing yesterday’s page thinking “why are there no new comments?” The link to newer didn’t show up until I had exited and started the page new.
Alethea H. Claw:
October 29th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Sympathies, Amblebury.
–
Speaking of MRAs, the self-styled Marxist is still going on in the MRA thread. He is so hilariously blind; it’s oddly cathartic just calling him a moron.
rorschach:
October 29th, 2011 at 10:48 am
Bangkok under water, with pictures.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls:
October 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am
I suspect that TU is Slanted Science. The MO is typical of it. IIRC it nominated itself for a Molly. Must have self-awarded one.
Giliell, the woman who said Good-bye to Kitty:
October 29th, 2011 at 11:42 am
OK, mostly caught up.
Esteleth
Bu-hu-hu-hu, you stole my MRA-friend.
I didn’t read all of it, but that seems to be his game: Try to play “good cop” by making compliments about “how reasonable” somebody is (what happend? 20 posts ago I was the only reasonable person there *cry*) and when they’re not falling for him, start sprouting bullshit.
amblebury
I’m sorry about your collie.
PZ Myers:
October 29th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
NEW THREAD!