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Oct 17 2011

Suffer, Earthlings!

Creationists have this idea that history can be nothing but an unremitting decline — their version of the second law of thermodynamics is a weird thing that has everything ratcheting down into chaos equally, with no possibility of local decreases in entropy at the expense of an overall greater increase. They have almost convinced me. I once would have said no one could be dumber than Kent Hovind, but I have seen the works of his son Eric, and it’s a forthright demonstration of creationist thermodynamics.

Eric Hovind has disproven the K-T meteor theory of dinosaur extinction.

It’s impossible for a couple of reasons for an asteroid to kill them [dinosaurs], because the asteroid, they say, was millions of years ago. The earth isn’t millions of years old. And second, they’ve lived with man, as is very very evident.

I’m so sorry. I’m looking at that quote, and realizing that as soon as I press the “publish” button, it will sweep out in a wave of electrons all around the world, and trillions and trillions of innocent neurons will die in agony as they try to parse it. And I think, I have the power to do that, but do I have the right? Is it ethical to inflict such cognitive pain on so many people?

Eh. Atheist, scientist, slightly mad.

I press the button. Bwahahaha!

(Also on Sb)

139 comments

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  1. 1
    Physicalist

    Aaaarrrrrgghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

  2. 2
    Phillip Han

    http://i.imgur.com/wRQF7.jpg

  3. 3
    Mr.Kosta

    Somebody ought to tell Eric boy the Flinstones isn’t a documentary.

  4. 4
    Ichthyic

    i second Phillip:

    404

  5. 5
    Marcus Ranum

    Yeah, that’s right, the dinosaurs lived with humans. So, why didn’t noah include them on his ark, dumbass?

  6. 6
    Mattand

    It’s like a Monty Python sketch, minus the humor and talent.

  7. 7
    Christopher

    I keep thinking that Eric is only as stupid as his father is, just for the money. As long as the money keeps coming in, he’ll continue to promote such stupid ideas.

  8. 8
    Zerple

    What is this I don’t even.

  9. 9
    Jacob van Beverningk

    .. as is very very evident.

    That ALMOST had me convinced!
    If only he had thrown in a few more ‘very’-s!

  10. 10
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    The biblical story is impossible for a couple reasons. Because it says all life was created recently, when we know that life has been around for billions of years. And second, the stupid is very very evident.

  11. 11
    cnjnrs

    That quote is the funniest thing I’ve seen this week.

  12. 12
    davo_301

    PZ what happens when you read one too many mad quotes like this and finally snap? Will you start building a base and planning world domination? If you are, do you want any help?

  13. 13
    MarkA

    It’s worse than I even imagined. I actually started to read some of the transcript. They start out by questioning the assumption that dinosaurs are even extinct! They cite some folk tales of large animals that could be dinosaurs, and seriously entertain the notion that dinosaurs are still alive and well (and not in the form of modern birds, either).

    I had to stop reading before my brain jumped out of my skull and ran screaming down the street….

  14. 14
    Snowshoe the Canuck

    I just finished marking a set of physics quizzes where many students invented their laws of the universe. If was good enough for Hovind, Newton and Einstein, it’s good enough for them.

    So when PZ builds his secret base, can I be one of the evil henchmen? Davo can be #1 and I’ll settle for number 2.

  15. 15
    Glodson

    That bit of reasoning has convinced me! I mean, I just needed proof to buy into Creationism. Clearly, he’s right. His assertions without any evidence is much more convincing than all that pesky “evidence” that backs up the normal conclusions held by scientists and all you educated types.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be praying my little head off and thinking of the day that dinosaurs will walk with me in Heaven.

    (Sarcasm, just so no one misses it.)

  16. 16
    Sam Chapman

    Ohhh, now that you put it that way, Eric. . .

  17. 17
    Spamamander, the Good Kind of Spam

    I think my brain just broke.

  18. 18
    ChrisH

    Ugh! How long does it actually take to cultivate that particular strain of stupid. Aurora Borealis mistaken as the second coming of Christ? UFO sightings are Demon activity? Sounds like the next Spielberg blockbuster to me.

  19. 19
    feralboy12

    When exactly did their story change from “God (or devil) put dinosaur fossils there to test our faith” to “dinosaurs lived alongside people?”
    The former is the one I heard repeatedly throughout the 90′s; the latter seems a more recent phenomenon, although I may have just become aware of it with the rise of the Internet. Did I miss a memo?
    I did a cartoon video a few years ago called Jesus & His Dinosaur Buddies based on the “test our faith” interpretation, only to be told in the comments that “we Christians believe in dinosaurs. It’s just evolution that we don’t believe in.”
    Putting aside the laughable idea that Christians all believe in the same stuff, I have to say I’m amazed at the way their inerrant, irrefutable truths keep changing. From “the fossils aren’t real” to “the fossils aren’t old.” What’s next? Dinosaurs are living among us now?

  20. 20
    Duckbilled Platypus

    It’s impossible for a couple of reasons for an asteroid to kill them [dinosaurs], because the asteroid, they say, was millions of years ago. The earth isn’t millions of years old. And second, they’ve lived with man, as is very very evident.

    Man lived with asteroids?

  21. 21
    Amanda T.

    Why did I read that? I knew it was going to hurt, yet I read it anyway.

  22. 22
    Snuffy Smith

    Nonsense. Who does he think he is, Cuvier? The dinosaurs haven’t been wiped out. I’m riding Deno to the store right now to pick up a box of Rox Crispies.

  23. 23
    arensb

    @Marcus Ranum:

    So, why didn’t noah include them on his ark, dumbass?

    You seem to have forgotten that in addition to being a creationist and a conspiracy theorist, Kent Hovind is also a cryptozoology nut, which supports the hypothesis that lack of critical thinking in one area leads to lack of critical thinking in other areas.

    If you listen to the rest of the episode (which I don’t recommend), one of the hosts talks about how he met an unnamed Kenyan woman on a flight who told him that people in her country allegedly believe in creatures that allegedly look a lot like pterodactyls, and therefore dinosaurs are still around.

    QED. I mean, how can you argue with that kind of evidence?

  24. 24
    Zinc Avenger

    @Duckbilled Platypus: i just snorted scalding hot coffee. I hope you are proud of yourself.

    On the other hand, I now have clear sinuses. (Therefore, God)

  25. 25
    Ichthyic

    I did a cartoon video a few years ago called Jesus & His Dinosaur Buddies

    Jesus.

    Jesus.

    Jesusandhisdinosaurbuddies…

    now I’m gonna have that as an earworm all day.

    curse you.

    ;P

  26. 26
    Matt

    I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…

  27. 27
    patrickkanne

    My mind can perfectly deal with quotes like that PZ. But I’m sure I woke up the neighborhood laughing at the responses you generate.
    The funny is very, very evident.

  28. 28
    opposablethumbs

    I want my neurones back. I don’t have so many to spare that I can afford the hecatomb involved in reading this.

  29. 29
    Daniel Schealler

    @Marcus Ranum #5

    So, why didn’t noah include them on his ark, dumbass?

    Probably because of all the dino-sodomy.

  30. 30
    movac

    When exactly did their story change from “God (or devil) put dinosaur fossils there to test our faith” to “dinosaurs lived alongside people?”
    The former is the one I heard repeatedly throughout the 90′s; the latter seems a more recent phenomenon, although I may have just become aware of it with the rise of the Internet. Did I miss a memo?

    Well, I got the latter story from Creationist biology textbooks during my home-schooling in the early ’90s, and I’ve never heard the former one advanced as an explanation without a heavy amount of sarcasm or irony.

  31. 31
    TomF

    From the transcript:

    Paul Taylor: And eventually confirmation that they’ve definitely got it [Laughter]. Definitely got it, does that mean they’ve sent some camera man back through a [indiscernible 00:03:31] or something. Sorry that’s a British TV reference

    If that word you said is TARDIS, and I’m betting it is, then the August Order of Whovians are going to do you for outrageous and wanton blasphemy for dragging His Uncanny Vessel (IBOTI be unto it) into your tawdry little sky-god hallucination. The traditional punishment is being made to watch The Happiness Patrol until the end of time. A cruel and inhumane punishment to be sure, but who are we to disrespect their beliefs?

  32. 32
    Kevin Alexander

    “Man lived with asteroids?”

    You don’t have to. A little prepH will clear it up.

  33. 33
    Inaji

    And second, they’ve lived with man, as is very very evident.

    No. Just no. I know your daddy once said:

    In spite of their ferocious look, many people would probably argue the T-Rex was a vegetarian. The ferocious teeth would have been great for, you know, crushing stuffed pumpkins or something, you know. I don’t know if it has ever been proven they were meat eaters. There is plenty of evidence from cracks in the enamel with chlorophyll stains in them indicating they were certainly eating plants.

    which implies that someone was stuffin’ the pumpkins…but it’s not true. Really.

  34. 34
    Glen Davidson

    I’m guessing that Eric hasn’t explained the “iridium layer,” the Chicxulub crater, or the dearth of non-avian dinosaurs in later sedimentary rocks.

    Oh well, the IDiots have never explained anything, so why should any creationist?

    Glen Davidson

  35. 35
    Snowshoe the Canuck

    Once upon a time, my brother the religious studies prof sent me a link to a babble coloring book showing JC riding a T Rex. Therefore, dinosaurs were on the ark and then died out. Musta been them pesky Romans what done it, just before they crashed the last dinner party.

  36. 36
    Freebird

    Paul Taylor: We’re simply showing that according to their ideas, it’s impossible for them to be more than 10 million year old. Of course it could be less than 10 million years

    Eric Hovind: Of course

    Paul Taylor: For example, six thousand years

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! How about:
    For example, fifty thousand years
    For example, 2 million four hundred thousand years
    For example, sixty hundred two thousand years 38 days nine hours and 11 minutes

  37. 37
    uke

    The stoopid, it burns

  38. 38
    TV200

    @31 TomF

    You’re such a killjoy. Yer getting sent to the Kandyman

  39. 39
    Margaret

    Man lived with asteroids?

    Hemorrhoids, not asteroids. The dinosaurs were killed by hemorrhoids, not asteroids. And now man is living with hemorrhoids, which may kill him too.

    Whimper. You shouldn’t have published that PZ. I may not recover.

  40. 40
    ibyea

    @TomF
    Personally, I liked the Happiness Patrol. :) Except for Candy Man’s costume. That was the worst costume in Doctor Who history.

    Say, I wonder if PZ was actually referencing Genesis of the Dalek, or it was just an accident that the paragraph sounds similar to a famous quote of the Doctor?

  41. 41
    Margaret

    Phooey. Kevin Alexander beat me to it. And did it better.

  42. 42
    CardinalSmurf

    PZ, you put that enticing link there on purpose, didn’t you?

    Brain Hurts! It will have to come out! – P. Z. Gumby

  43. 43
    patrickkanne

    @feralboy12 from the transcript:
    “Yes, I mean how do they even know that dinosaurs actually are extinct?”

    And then they go on debating how dinosaurs might not be extinct..

  44. 44
    sayamika

    Painful.

    They must be having us on. Did they really say that there was a theory that the dinosaurs died of terminal flatulence?

  45. 45
    NitricAcid

    #29 and #39- That sounds like the old joke about the megasoras.

  46. 46
    A3Kr0n

    Physicalist #1
    CRAP! You took all the wind out of my sail!
    Still…
    Aaaarrrrrgghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

  47. 47
    CardinalSmurf

    Eric Hovind doesn’t surprise me, he was raised in that household (I assume).

    For some reason I cannot explain, likely my years of exposure to some very decent British TV shows and films, I have a really hard time seeing Brits talk nonsense. It’s totally unexpected. I’ve learned to expect so much more from them that when I see this…well I suppose reality sets in. I guess I should just be happy to be wiser.

    Man, disillusionment is such a bummer!

  48. 48
    CardinalSmurf

    Perhaps Chrisopher’s comment (#7) has merit. Perhaps Mr. Taylor is only in it for the money?

  49. 49
    Spamamander, the Good Kind of Spam

    You know, the hemorrhoids thing might be a legitimate scare for some of these guys. Their god sure seemed to like inflicting them on people…

    The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. — Deuteronomy 28:27

    the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts. — 1 Samuel 5:6-7

    And the men that died not were smitten with the emerods: and the cry of the city went up to heaven. 1 Samuel 5:12

  50. 50
    A3Kr0n

    We aren’t required to read the whole, transcript, are we PZ? I hope not. I stopped after reading “we’ve got Mark Spence from living[FUCKING]waters.com”
    Still…
    Aaaarrrrrgghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

  51. 51
    CardinalSmurf

    @A3Kr0n: you’re a wiser one than I. I kept on going. I may never recover. It’s too late for me…save yourselves! Partake not of the filth!

  52. 52
    Marcus Ranum

    arensb writes:

    how can you argue with that kind of evidence?

    I admit, it’s gotta take an extra-tall helping of “strident”

  53. 53
    Glodson

    I just had one of those things that the Hams would call “a headache with pictures,” or an idea to the rest of us(Thanks Futurama). It occurs to me that maybe my problem is that I have the wrong Bible. The problem is that we’ve been reading the wrong one. Mine didn’t have dinosaurs in it. I feel cheated now. My Baptist upbringing could have so much more dynamic with Biblical Dinosaurs!

    I mean, Jesus riding into town in a raptor is much better than the crap I had to read. And fiction should be fun, damn it!

  54. 54
    Marcus Ranum

    Margaret writes:

    Hemorrhoids, not asteroids. The dinosaurs were killed by hemorrhoids, not asteroids. And now man is living with hemorrhoids, which may kill him too.

    And who created the hemorrhoids? Satan! Of course! It all makes sense now.

    This “sophistimacated theology” stuff is kinda fun.

  55. 55
    Snowshoe the Canuck

    The magnetic field deflects solar rays… Confusion between electromagnetic radiation and charged particles
    (sound of wall striking head)
    The magnetic field of Earth is on a steady decline which means 25Ma life on earth was impossible
    Reaches for arithmetic machine….

    Sigh, 1840 days, 6 hours before retirement.

    Those two make my weakest student look like a Nobel prize winner. thanks Hovind, you just shown my dad was right again. As he often said, “no one is completely useless, they could always be used as a bad example”.

  56. 56
    4004bc

    PZ, how can you complain about us aussies sending you Ken Ham to live in the land of the free when you already have such luminary figures as these for him to play with (along with his pet T Rex)?
    There is no way we could have kept him for ourselves alone.

    As the permanent brain damage that your lint has just inflicted…
    At least my dangerously low blood pressure has gone!

  57. 57
    raven

    The fundie xian view of life is bleak and dismal. The xian Sky Monster can’t even keep a universe going for 6,000 years. Darwin’s universe is 13.7 billion years old and just a baby.

    God created the universe and man in his own image, 6,000 years ago. Things went wrong immediately when he accidently left the Tree of Knowledge and a smartass snake, left over from his last universe, in the Garden. His attempts to fix things with murders and mass murders didn’t work. But it doesn’t matter because any day now he is coming back to kill 7 billion people and destroy the earth.

    The scientific view has us as the dominant species and survivors of 3.8 billion years of evolution. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and just getting started. The galaxy appears empty of spacefaring life right now. If we can keep it together we could spread throughout the galaxy and own 1 billion star systems.

  58. 58
    kelseighnieforth

    I’m surprised nobody’s commented on the bit at the end where they’re chalking up alien abduction to demons.

    I can just see Eric wrestling with this, knowing it’s mad but the CEO of CMI wrote about it, so he’s stuck pushing it. Guess it doesn’t matter, he doesn’t have credibility in the first place, and the believers will swallow whatever hogwash they get tossed.

  59. 59
    eNeMeE

    It’s things like this that make me glad I’m already crazy

  60. 60
    Amphiox

    Dinosaurs younger than 6000 years he says?

    So what about that C14 result from the T-rex and the mosasaur that gives 26 000 years, huh?

    Can’t explain that!

  61. 61
    apenpaap

    Wow. Making other creationists look intelligent and their arguments logical by comparison is not a pretty place to be in.

  62. 62
    Jek

    I tried to get through that transcript, but then I felt something weird on my shoulder and realised it was my brain dribbling out of my ear onto my work shirt. I thought I better stop.

  63. 63
    raven

    I’m surprised nobody’s commented on the bit at the end where they’re chalking up alien abduction to demons.

    A common fundie xian belief is that UFO’s exist and are piloted by demons from hell.

    This is pushed by some famous xian apologist from Arkansas whose name I’ve mercifully managed to forget.

    It’s the old saying. In for a penny, in for a pound.

    If you are going to believe crazy things and have cast lose from the mooring of reality, might as well believe anything and everything, no matter how silly or stupid.

    About all Hovind and Ham show is that the worst our society has produced includes fundie xians. If jesus existed, he would be so proud.

  64. 64
    flyv65

    Ohh, Jeebus PZed: did you have to post a link to the frikkin’ show? I read the damn thing, and at first it was funny, but then it started making my head hurt.

    Bryan…teh stoopid: it burns!

  65. 65
    carpenterman

    Ow, Ow, Ow. My head. I’m fifty years old, and nothing in my life has prepared me for such a level of idiocy. I mean it… I don’t even know how to respond. The intellectual cluster-fuck that go’s on in that man’s head must be like something out of one of those awful dreams you get when you have a fever.

  66. 66
    RealityBasedSteve

    I think that it’s hilarious that about 2/3rds of the way down they start on this “stranger in a strange land” riff. If only they had quoted some Heinlein on religion. One that comes to mind is:


    History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it. [Robert Heinlein, Notebooks of Lazarus Long]

    Now that I’ve read the entire article, I’m going to lie down quietly and weep for our country.

    Steve
    Who can handle fools gracefully, but draws the line at ‘Aggressively Stupid’

  67. 67
    raven

    Where UFO’s Originate – Facts and Fablesw ww.delusionresistance.org/ufo/ufo_origins

    Read below and see what I (and surprisingly many people) believe are the origins of these craft. … Anyway, no human pilot could withstand the g-forces that accompany objects when they …

    Craft operated by demonic entities – a supernatural force. …. of UFO’s tend to avoid; that being those who are Born Again Christians. …</b.

    There are lots of websites devoted to babbling on about UFO’s being piloted by demons.

    I wouldn’t bother reading them unless you have good antivirus software and can run your brain through the washing machine when you are done.

  68. 68
    Philip Legge

    Davros:

    I’m so sorry. I’m looking at that quote, and realizing that as soon as I press the “publish” button, it will sweep out in a wave of electrons all around the world, and trillions and trillions of innocent neurons will die in agony as they try to parse it. And I think, I have the power to do that, but do I have the right? Is it ethical to inflict such cognitive pain on so many people?Eh. Atheist, scientist, slightly mad.I press the button. Bwahahaha!

    PZ Myers:

    Yes. Yes. To hold in my hand a capsule that contained such power… to know that life and death on such a scale was my choice. To know that the tiny pressure of my thumb, enough to break the glass, would end everything. Yes. I would do it! That power would set me up above the gods. And through the Daleks, I shall have that power!

  69. 69
    Philip Legge

    For that matter, the Doctor’s soliloquy in Part Six of the same Doctor Who story has a lot in common with the ethical dilemma here. :)

    For the sake of accuracy I decided to inspect the relevant part of the video myself – as PZ Gumby would say, “MY BRANE HURTZ!!1!”

    Amended transcript:

    Paul Taylor: Definitely got it, does that mean they’ve sent some cameramen back through a Doctor Who TARDIS or something?

  70. 70
    CardinalSmurf

    These guys are a good example of some of the fears people have of how others on our planet might react to E.T. visitation going public. If these guys believe they are demons, then they may pose a threat to intergalactic diplomacy.

    We have a long way to go before we are ready to “entertain” guests here on earth.

  71. 71
    The Ys

    I’d like to know what kind of raptor Jesus had for a pet.

    I’d also like to know why said raptor is never shown in any painting that depicts events in Jesus’s life. And why aren’t they included in any of the movies? Just think how cool the Ten Commandments would be if Moses unleashed dinosaurs on the Egyptians! Parting the Red Sea is lame in comparison to T-Rexs stampeding an entire army.

  72. 72
    skmarshall

    My hat’s off to the genius in Microsoft’s marketing department who gave those two nitwits their new laptops.

  73. 73
    CardinalSmurf

    @Philip Legge:

    That must be what it is about Paul Taylor that makes it so difficult for me to take him seriously as a creationist or xian. He likes one of my favorite David Bowie songs and has at least a superficial knowledge of Dr. Who. Or is it just wishful thinking on my part? Does he knows these things simply because he grew up in England during the right time?

  74. 74
    ss123

    Think they’ll go to hell for all the lies/nonsense in that transcript?

  75. 75
    LeBleaux

    Just a general question for the citizens of North America. Are you aware of the image nonsense like this creates for the rest of the world. The US becomes difficult to take seriously. I accept that not everyone thinks like this, but this sort of crap is permeating its way into your political hierarchy, into the very ‘stuff’ of the United States. It makes one, upon meeting an American for the first time, have to go through a bit of a surreptitious level-set to find out whether you are dealing with a god bothering cuckoo. Do you guys realise the effect this crap has on the way you all present yourselves to the world – you need another revolution.

    I live in slumberland (New Zealand) by the way

  76. 76
    CardinalSmurf

    @LeBleaux:

    Do you realize the effect Flight of the Conchords has on the image of NZ the rest of the world has? =P

  77. 77
    elronxenu

    It’s a flotilla of futility sailing on a sea of stupid. Next port of call – idiocy!

  78. 78
    LeBleaux

    You betcha – talented, laid back and funny.

  79. 79
    Randide, Mais il faut cultiver notre jardin

    Do you guys realise the effect this crap has on the way you all present yourselves to the world – you need another revolution.

    Agreed, but we should probably just pick a new name for the country afterward. Too much baggage with the current one. We could use a rebranding.

  80. 80
    AussieMike

    ERROR 404! Intelligence not found.
    System failed to parse comments resulting in a processor lockup.
    System is trying to recover from irrational imput. This may take quite some time!
    Suggest loading Dawkins 1.0 recovery disk and rebooting system.
    If this fails suggest running hitchslap 5.0, Harris 6.1, Dennett 8.3 followed by dawkins 2.0 (also known as the ‘What if you’re wrong?’ file.

  81. 81
    Brain Hertz

    Eric Hovind: I don’t even like the question. We’ll get to the comment idea, but the question has a, some assumptions in it. What we all can refer to as presuppositions.

    Paul Taylor: That’s true.

    Eric Hovind: They’re assuming something just by asking the question, aren’t they?

    Paul Taylor: Yes, I mean how do they even know that dinosaurs actually are extinct?

    Eric Hovind: That’s a very good question.

    Paul Taylor: I mean I suspect that they possibly are, I mean I’ve never seen one personally [indiscernible 00:05:43].

    WTF?

    I keep waiting for Eric to announce that the whole thing was just a big joke to see how far they could go before anybody noticed…

  82. 82
    raven

    I live in slumberland (New Zealand) by the way.

    Two of our wackiest fundie xian creationists are

    Ray Comfort from New Zealand and

    Ken Ham from Australia.

    The pot should make sure it isn’t really a kettle.

  83. 83
    Daniel Schealler

    *coughAlsoBrianTamakicough*

  84. 84
    Amphiox

    Two of our wackiest fundie xian creationists are

    Ray Comfort from New Zealand and

    Ken Ham from Australia.

    The pot should make sure it isn’t really a kettle.

    But I think the Australians and New Zealanders have a secret method of dealing with their kettles.

    They try to export them to the US.

    (Lousy, sneaky, bastards…..)

  85. 85
    LeBleaux

    Two of our wackiest fundie xian creationists are

    Ray Comfort from New Zealand and

    Ken Ham from Australia.

    The pot should make sure it isn’t really a kettle.

    Yes, the pot should indeed be careful in how it addresses the kettle – I accept that. But, you know, to the best of my knowledge neither of those guys got any traction in their respective countries, but both have in the USA. I had never heard of Ray Comfort in a New Zealand context before. On the one hand, you have to respect the US for granting these people the freedom to speak their mind – I certainly respect this and would not have it any other way – but on the other hand you need to understand that, when these folk do spout forth, the entire country and ALL its citizenry gets tarred with their brush. I asked the question initially because I am interested in understanding whether the general population realize this. I did not set out to cause offense and apologize unreservedly if I have done so.

  86. 86
    LeBleaux

    I also apologise for Brian Tamaki

  87. 87
    AussieMike

    @amphiox
    We don’t export them, that suggests a valuable commodity. We deport them to a more sympathetic environment.
    …ouch!

  88. 88
    Pan

    I feel so, so stupid right now. Total brain meltdown.

  89. 89
    joshuaz

    It is a valid in argument in the technical sense that the conclusion follows from the premises. An asteroid could not have killed off the dinosaurs millions of years ago if the dinosaurs lived thousands of years ago. The problem is that arguments need to not just be valid but need to be sound: they need to have true premises.

    Eric is probably also not aware that one cannot make an argument to support one claim by using an equally controversial claim.

    In summary, this is bullshit.

    I actually feel pretty sorry for Eric Hovind. Given his father’s general behavior and how he likely raised him, it would take tremendous cognitive abilities to admit that everything his father taught him were simply lies or to admit that his father was probably more interested in money and praise than in truth. I suspect that if one of us were in Eric’s position we might act the same way. Of course, feeling sorry for the poor bastard doesn’t make the arguments any less stupid.

  90. 90
    fred

    If this were a Penn & Teller routine, it would go down among the century’s great parodies.

    …but these clowns are SERIOUS! It simply makes my teeth itch.

  91. 91
    grumpyoldfart

    Eric doesn’t care if you laugh at him. He’s making a fortune from gullible Christians who pay him to say such things during his lectures – so the opinion of unbelievers worries him not at all.

  92. 92
    tushcloots

    That fucking does it. I don’t know how you people can resist this for so long. I give. Ken Ham is right and you know it.
    It’s over folks. There is no such think as macro extinction, only micro extinction, there fore the dinosaurs are not extinct.
    Maybe some of them die a little bit, get a little sick – but all of them at once, randomly coming apart into trillions of atoms instantly, every dinosaur at the exact same time, spontaneously??!!? Nobody’s ever seen that happen in their lifetime.
    It’s only a matter of time ’till he reveals all the dinosaurs to the world, and you will see. And then he’ll ask them about Noah’s Ark, and they’ll confirm it.
    I’m going to organize a mob of devout believers and go down there and demand. our. dinosaurs!
    Giv us our dinosaurs back, you shyster, Ham! Noah saved them for everybody, not just you, you heathen!!!!!!

  93. 93
    Spector567

    I read somewhere once that 1% of the human population can be defined as a psychopath. They of course do not go around murdering people but lake empathy.

    I wonder if there is a hereditary component? After all it takes a lot to have 2 generations make there living by lying to children.

    Of course creationists are not psychopaths but Eric and Kent both have had FULL knowledge and have been shown many times by others that what they are saying is grade A BS. Yet they still do it.

  94. 94
    Ray, rude-ass yankee

    LeBleaux@75, I live here and I can’t take my country seriously any more. You don’t have a room for rent to a rational person looking for a sane country to live in do you?

  95. 95
    Ray, rude-ass yankee

    Well, mostly rational. But I am house trained.

  96. 96
    Ragutis

    Oh, FFS. That’s cost me more brain cells than all the pounds of weed I’ve smoked in my life.

    Is there any way we can hurry the Rapture along and be rid of these idiots? How many of those model rocket engines do you figure it would take to ascend Eric to Heaven into the Sun?

  97. 97
    Jek

    @ Tushcloots, I wish there was a like button for that.

  98. 98
    tigerhawkvok

    Well, the K-Pg impact didn’t kill off the dinosaurs. They’re still around and the most numerous tetrapod clade, as a matter of fact.

    Oooh, non-avian dinosaurs. ;-)

    Remember kids: Girrafatitan (n.d. Brachiosaurus) is more closely related to Polly the Parrot than to Triceratops.

  99. 99
    Patrick Smythe, Calm No More

    But you can’t prove that dinosaurs aren’t extinct! That would be proving a negative! Huh? Huh? Got you!

  100. 100
    Ichthyic

    If we can keep it together we could spread throughout the galaxy and own 1 billion star systems.

    my mind flashes forward to a future where Real Estate Agents dominate the galaxy.

    *shudder*

  101. 101
    Ichthyic

    That would be proving a negative!

    technically, this is not a problem. I wonder who was the person most credited with the logical fallacy that you cannot prove a negative?

    I really hope it wasn’t Randi, but I can’t prove it wasn’t.

  102. 102
    Ichthyic

    I also apologise for Brian Tamaki

    Hey, at least we learned from sending Ray Comfort to the US:

    Don’t export your garbage!

    We’ll treat Tamaki like the waste sewage he is, but keep him here at home this time.

  103. 103
    Ichthyic

    The pot should make sure it isn’t really a kettle.

    seriously Raven.

    Things are VERY different here in NZ from the states.

    speaking of Brian Tamaki… he tried to run for government here once…

    and people laughed him off the fucking stage.

    people here just don’t truck with the “politicians must be xian” schtick.

    one of the reasons I came here, in fact.

  104. 104
    Ichthyic

    oh, and one last thing…

    If you actually look into the background behind the Destiny Church here in NZ… look who sponsored Tamaki to start this stuff, you’ll find this guy:

    Thomas Weeks

    Who, by the way, is from the US, and was convicted of fraud twice, IIRC.

  105. 105
    F

    Duckbilled Platypus:

    Man lived with asteroids?

    Isn’t that why bigpharma invented Preparation A?

  106. 106
    Owlmirror

    In August 2010, Eric Hovind commented on Pharyngula, saying:

    Yes, it is wrong to misrepresent scientific theories to preach the word of God

    I’m pretty sure that Eric knows that at least some of what he claims about science are in fact misrepresentations of scientific theories, so Eric is knowingly doing that which he says is wrong.

  107. 107
    tushcloots

    Patrick Smythe, Calm No More says:
    18 October 2011 at 3:15 am

    But you can’t prove that dinosaurs aren’t extinct! That would be proving a negative! Huh? Huh? Got you!

    Yes I can, I just have to catch one. Don’t think I can? Prove it!

    (Feck, I can’t tell if I’m acting Like a mature creationist, or a goofy 7 year old)

    TWEEEEEEEEEEET!! And there’s a flag on the play. Here’s the call: “The call on the field – number 105. Major foul, piling on after the punchline. The touch back stands.”

    Wow, he really got creamed on that play *&%n … hold on, seems that a dinosaur is loose on the field! I thought they were extinct?
    Not much unless they’ve been eating Brussels Sprouts..

  108. 108
    Hawgh

    *Hurgh*
    You mad beast. What have you done?

  109. 109
  110. 110
    marko

    Those guys are geniuses. Pure comedy gold.

    …but somehow the really sensitive animals like butterflies and frogs, they survived.

  111. 111
    Kieran

    Yes but I think we all forget that he is using the most powerful argument “Quia ita dicam” using this no other proof is needed and to say otherwise would just be unfair and he’d have to run home crying because you guys are all so mean!

  112. 112
    José Silva

    Quoting Lewis Black:

    ‘There are people who believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, that they roamed the Earth at the same time. There are museums that children go to, in which they build dioramas to show them this. And what this is, purely and simply, is a clinical psychotic reaction. They are crazy. They are stone-cold-f*** nuts. I can’t be kind about this, because these people are watching The Flinstones as if it were a documentary.’

  113. 113
    Dorset Troll

    Snuffy Smith says:

    “The dinosaurs haven’t been wiped out. I’m riding Deno to the store right now to pick up a box of Rox Crispies.”

    You really should know better. Texting, Tweeting or any other distraction while in charge of a dinosaur is VERY dangerous, and is probably covered by any of the Distracted Driving Bills and laws.
    An uncontrolled dinosaur traveling at speed can be a danger to other road users, not just yourself.

  114. 114
    Birger Johansson

    We need to re-cast this dialogue as a comedy, with the Black Adder and Baldric. But the viewers would complain that it was too far out, too surreal.

  115. 115
    campbellboyd

    Thanks for posting this, PZ. I needed a really good laugh this morning.

  116. 116
    misunderestimated

    Eric Hovind:

    You know it’s very interesting, I met a woman after hearing, after hearing reports of a Pterodactyl type animal in Kenya of Africa. I met a woman in the airport, and she’s from Kenya, and I said “Hey, I just got a question. I have heard reports of big bat-like creatures, Pterodactyls. Have you heard of those?” She’s like oh yeah, they’re over there. And she talked about it as if it was normal everyday stuff …

    It couldn’t be that they’d mistake the The Flying Fox (also know as: Pteropus) with another kind of large bat from mainland Africa? I mean … knowing how much research they did at the airport!?
    Nah, it’s very very evident they did their homework properly -.-

  117. 117
    Matthias

    Oh no!!! You shouldn’t have pressed that ‘publish’ button, now I am barely able to type this (it’s a case of the second law of laughing, I think). Maybe some of the electrons and neutrons and protons that once were you, will pass by my desk some day. Rest in peace, PZ!

  118. 118
    Moggie

    Ichthyic:

    my mind flashes forward to a future where Real Estate Agents dominate the galaxy.

    Gregory “Elephant” Pelton owns known space. Kind of a real estate agent, and also a bit of a dick.

  119. 119
    richardelguru

    Kevin Alexander says:

    “Man lived with asteroids?”

    You don’t have to. A little prepH will clear it up.

    I don’t know, have you seen the size of some of those asteroids?

  120. 120
    HaggisForBrains

    Of course there are still dinosaurs: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/dayintech_0822

    Come over to Scotland and check out the irrefutable evidence: http://www.nessie.co.uk

    The truth is out there.

    PS. you’ve just ruined another irony meter:

    Paul Taylor: That’s very very exciting indeed, where we’re going to be having an animated film, which is going to be in 3D animation of the first three chapters of Genesis, that’s gonna be great.
    Eric Hovind: It’s really gonna be incredible. You can check that out at genesisseries.com, and of course the Proof of God conference can be checked out at proofconference.com…

    Paul Taylor: But have they taken film of the actual meteorite hitting the earth, I know I’ve seen the cartoon film
    Eric Hovind: The cartoon version of it, yes.
    Paul Taylor: Yeah so I mean that proves it. You saw that meteorite…
    Eric Hovind: As long as you see it on TV,
    Paul Taylor: Yeah
    Eric Hovind: That proves it
    Paul Taylor: It is, yeah.

    My brain hurts!

  121. 121
    electrabotanical

    The only dinosaur they won’t acknowledge is the legendary lesbian dino. Do you know what it’s called? Naturally, it was named the Lickalotapus.

  122. 122
    greame

    But can he tell me how much the letter ‘L’ weighs?

  123. 123
    Frank Lovell (Jr)

    Eric Hovind makes Young-Earth Creationist-bashing too easy; indeed, he just about makes Young-Earth Creationist-bashing unnecessary!

  124. 124
    Ilaria

    *urgh* sorry, i’m just a lurker, usually, but i had to comment: my brain just exploded -_-

  125. 125
    Brian

    What was so hard to parse about those sentences? Bullshit sentences, of course, but simply understood bullshit.

  126. 126
    TonyJ

    I have trouble wrapping my mind around the fact that they truly believe this stuff.

  127. 127
    Naked Bunny with a Whip

    Please stop your fear mongering, Dr. Myers. I surgically removed my brain prior to reading Hovind’s quote as a precautionary measure, but it turned out to be a profoundly simple and obvious refutation!

  128. 128
    Sean

    http://wearscience.com/design/button/

  129. 129
    lazybird

    Yes there are still dinosaurs walking around, they have names like Hovind, Ham, Ratzinger, Bachmann and Limbaugh.

  130. 130
    peterh

    “It’s like a Monty Python sketch, minus the humor and talent.” And without even the remotest connection to reality. But you knew that.

    Another Heinlein/Lazarus Long: “One man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh.” But you knew that, also.

    Perhaps in a philosophical sense, this country is to be viewed kindly for letting such blitheringly idiotic people speak their minds. I feel the embarrassment comes from realizing how many are so dim in the dome that they honestly believe such side-show charlatanism.

  131. 131
    Salty

    Sorry to go off topic, but I just have to complain – yesterday one of my psych 101 students turned in an essay about drug use and cited http://www.godandscience.org as a source…… Blarrrrgh I feel so discouraged.

  132. 132
    Ichthyic

    http://wearscience.com/design/button/

    I liked the pic in the sidebar for that, with the highlight button that says “enlarge”.

    :p

  133. 133
    johnm55

    It is unfortunate,but I think that there is a reader of this blog even stupider than Eric Hovind. Yes I was daft enough to click on the link that PZ slipped in. The stupid has fried my brain, I hope it’s not permanent.

  134. 134
    Rick

    Oh how I wish their page allowed comments – it would be so much fun!

  135. 135
    Chris Booth

    Projection:

    Paul Taylor: And what they’ve done is they’ve looked at the an…they’ve got what they think is the answer and they’ve tried to find the evidence to fit it, which is not scientific research.

    But it is also lying. The “Commandments” always apply to everyone but the “faithful”. They can lie, cheat, steal, murder, and whatever else their impulses lead them to.

    Because it is not about “belief”. Its about authority. That’s why the Great Invisible But Oh-So-Threatening Sky-Ape is so much like them, and so very approving of whatever they want. What we, even here, fail to realize is that “belief” is a post hoc validator of what they want, not the starting point. “Belief” is a position taken from which to argue. Even “god” is not a real concept. “God” is really just an abstraction of themselves and their wishes, but–in their minds–the ultimate authority-gambit. That’s why on the one hand, “God” tells them hurting children is bad, and on the other hand “God” tells them to marry–and consummate the marriage–when girls are nine years old, or sodomizing alter-boys is righteous, yea; it depends on whether they are basically good folks or not–without the religion. It doesn’t tell nurturers to rape children, it gives the hurters an opportunity to hurt. Even in their minds, “god” is a non-entity, a blank to be filled in with their desires and assumptions. And after the scrimmage with wish-and-text, its open-field lying. After all, they are the ref.

    So, lying for Jeebus? Alles gute.

  136. 136
    kermit.

    Icthyic I wonder who was the person most credited with the logical fallacy that you cannot prove a negative?

    I really hope it wasn’t Randi, but I can’t prove it wasn’t.

    I’m pretty sure it was a nameless nobody who didn’t understand logic very well. You can’t prove there is no god, if you define this god vaguely enough, or say, as “an omnipotent entity who doesn’t want to be found”.

    But for anything that would be expected to leave evidence, like elephants in my house, why yes, of course you can prove a negative.

  137. 137
    kermit.

    A few thoughts:
    The inability to recognize “Dr. Who Tardis” is simply evidence of the Creationist distaste for science and science fiction. They both go together. Exercise in “what if” speculations, in following the consequences of circumstances is very dangerous for somebody whose self-worth, tribal identity, and eternal life depends on not doing those things. Science and science fiction and even fantasy are discouraged. Remember those accusations that Harry Potter books would lead children into witchcraft? (When my daughter was eight, I told her that some folks believed that playing fantasy games would corrupt the player’s soul, and he or she would be given Satanic dark powers. To which she replied “cool!”)

    I am as old as Taylor, and I remember being told that we didn’t know why dinosaurs went extinct, although many hypotheses were being considered. It’s not strange that folks who cannot understand learning would have trouble with explanations changing as new evidence is found. Taylor: “Obviously I’m very very old, and I remember that when I was in school, they didn’t teach this [Chicxulub], because this idea hadn’t been developed then. It was developed in the early 1980’s, so when I was at school, this idea hadn’t come about.” Yeah, you fool, we turned up new data.

    And don’t worry about the damaged neurons, folks; I was raised Fundie 50 years ago, and the doctor says that my brain is just about healed up now.

  138. 138
    Kol

    At first I was pissed at PZ for exposing me to this tripe.
    But then I realized that I actually enjoy exposed tripe.

    Hmmm… I’ll try again. Just use the standard visual of morons hissing when exposed to the light of blinding rationality.

    I actually watched the entire video.

    I repeat.
    I. WATCHED. THE. ENTIIIIIIIIRE. VIDEO.

    I think I deserve a purple heart emblazoned with a scarlet “A” right there. (Make one, I’ll buy one)

    So I asked my 11-year-old what he would think if I told him that the universe was 6000 years old.
    He immediately questioned the source of the statement, adding “bonkers” in his response.

    So, I’m using my uberskills to put the video on our local network so that we can all snuggle up in bed and watch this monumental, ermmm, revelation together.

    Then we do the Benny Hill marathon.

  139. 139
    local seo

    I just uncovered your website on Ask Jeeves, a definitely excellent read.

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