Maybe this is not the place, or the time, but I want to say something about Lt Col Arnaud Beltrame, a French Gendarme, who has given his life so that others might live.
He volunteered to take the place of people taken hostage by an ISIS terrorist who had already killed three people, fully aware of the danger.
‘… the decorated officer would have known he was almost certainly walking to his death.’ (The Guardian)
A real hero.
Au revoir, Arnaud, May we always remember your courage.
hemidactylussays
Good video. Sad actually as a summation of where we are at now as a “movement”. Might re-listen to your appearance on Serious Inquiries Only. Seemed between the lines at the end Kristi was imploring you to remain part of the movement. Maybe we need the moral compassy curmudgeon guidance. You were quite prominent before the movement left you, to use an old political trope. Integrity beats success or fame every time. You stand against the big thinky juggernaut. Several of them wrote frickin books on morality.
jazzletsays
I think we need to get over the idea that The Movement has to be a monlith We need a movement based on the promotion of what we value, lets start that movement or rather formalise it as it does already existand leave the existing movement to the adult sized male toddlers. I’m not suggeting a movement that everyone on our wing would have to join, but offering something tht many would want to join because there is no doubt that coming together with those who share your values is life affirming (sorry, I hate that phrase, but it is useful shorthand for what I mean).
billyjoesays
I don’t listen to many podcasts mainly because of limited time and also because of the usual time-waste on irrelevant banter. I did listen to this one because I was interested in the views I anticipated would be expressed, and I was keen to get a handle on why PZ has lost faith in the Atheist Movement. Overall, I found it quite instructive. Obviously I have some minor criticisms – one of them being assuming motives on the part of the people mentioned which, I think, is always a bad starting point or end point of any argument – but they are minor criticisms and outweighed by my improved understanding of PZ’s position.
To be clear, I have never actually been part of the Atheist Movement. I first became aware of such a movement at about the time of Elevatorgate, and was completely put off the irrational, derogatory and shameful response of individual atheists and the atheist movement itself. But, in any case, I have always thought that we should separate Atheism from Humanism. After all, Atheism is, by definition, a non-belief in god or a belief that god does not exist (strong version). It doesn’t really have anything to do with ethics or morals. For that we have Humanism, and I much prefer to be called a Humanist.
However I now more fully understand the push back against the Atheist Movement. Although it is true that atheism is simply the lack of belief in god and, therefore, that the role of the atheist movement is simply to promote that lack of belief, the motivation should be to promote a better world guided by Humanism in place of religious indoctrination. So, when prominent members of this movement do not conduct themselves according to humanist principles, and when the movement then closes ranks and simply says it’s off-topic, then how on earth is the movement going to promote a better world? Maybe, we should just have a Humanist Movement.
billyjoesays
I just wanted to add that perhaps the anti-AtheistMovement movement should try not to make enemies of friends.
One example is Steven Pinker, whose name is hardy ever mentioned here without a pejoritive. The video below is worth listening to in its entirety, but, if you don’t have time, please watch just the bit between 31:15 and 37:25 where he explains the misinterpretation of that truncated video that was shared on this blog some weeks ago:
You would have to call him a liar to still defend the view that his is alt right. Or an “enabler” or “useful fool” of the alt right, whatever that could mean as a criticism.
paxollsays
KGsays
You would have to call him a liar to still defend the view that his is alt right. – billyjoe@5
Steven Pinker is a liar. That’s been obvious at least since The Blank Slate
Maybe this is not the place, or the time, but I want to say something about Lt Col Arnaud Beltrame, a French Gendarme, who has given his life so that others might live.
He volunteered to take the place of people taken hostage by an ISIS terrorist who had already killed three people, fully aware of the danger.
‘… the decorated officer would have known he was almost certainly walking to his death.’ (The Guardian)
A real hero.
Au revoir, Arnaud, May we always remember your courage.
Good video. Sad actually as a summation of where we are at now as a “movement”. Might re-listen to your appearance on Serious Inquiries Only. Seemed between the lines at the end Kristi was imploring you to remain part of the movement. Maybe we need the moral compassy curmudgeon guidance. You were quite prominent before the movement left you, to use an old political trope. Integrity beats success or fame every time. You stand against the big thinky juggernaut. Several of them wrote frickin books on morality.
I think we need to get over the idea that The Movement has to be a monlith We need a movement based on the promotion of what we value, lets start that movement or rather formalise it as it does already existand leave the existing movement to the adult sized male toddlers. I’m not suggeting a movement that everyone on our wing would have to join, but offering something tht many would want to join because there is no doubt that coming together with those who share your values is life affirming (sorry, I hate that phrase, but it is useful shorthand for what I mean).
I don’t listen to many podcasts mainly because of limited time and also because of the usual time-waste on irrelevant banter. I did listen to this one because I was interested in the views I anticipated would be expressed, and I was keen to get a handle on why PZ has lost faith in the Atheist Movement. Overall, I found it quite instructive. Obviously I have some minor criticisms – one of them being assuming motives on the part of the people mentioned which, I think, is always a bad starting point or end point of any argument – but they are minor criticisms and outweighed by my improved understanding of PZ’s position.
To be clear, I have never actually been part of the Atheist Movement. I first became aware of such a movement at about the time of Elevatorgate, and was completely put off the irrational, derogatory and shameful response of individual atheists and the atheist movement itself. But, in any case, I have always thought that we should separate Atheism from Humanism. After all, Atheism is, by definition, a non-belief in god or a belief that god does not exist (strong version). It doesn’t really have anything to do with ethics or morals. For that we have Humanism, and I much prefer to be called a Humanist.
However I now more fully understand the push back against the Atheist Movement. Although it is true that atheism is simply the lack of belief in god and, therefore, that the role of the atheist movement is simply to promote that lack of belief, the motivation should be to promote a better world guided by Humanism in place of religious indoctrination. So, when prominent members of this movement do not conduct themselves according to humanist principles, and when the movement then closes ranks and simply says it’s off-topic, then how on earth is the movement going to promote a better world? Maybe, we should just have a Humanist Movement.
I just wanted to add that perhaps the anti-AtheistMovement movement should try not to make enemies of friends.
One example is Steven Pinker, whose name is hardy ever mentioned here without a pejoritive. The video below is worth listening to in its entirety, but, if you don’t have time, please watch just the bit between 31:15 and 37:25 where he explains the misinterpretation of that truncated video that was shared on this blog some weeks ago:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vK3mm8P21ao
You would have to call him a liar to still defend the view that his is alt right. Or an “enabler” or “useful fool” of the alt right, whatever that could mean as a criticism.
Steven Pinker is a liar. That’s been obvious at least since The Blank Slate