Comments

  1. Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne says

    Waiting for my ride to the Mercury Rev/Portishead gig to show up. Not really sure what to expect from either; at least with The Flaming Lips last night I had, having seen them live before, some idea of what they do in their live shows.

    I expect it’s going to be good, though. I’ve been waiting a long time to see Portishead.

  4. John Morales says

    [datum]

    When in a London street, I saw a very black woman flaunting electric-blue hair.

    Took me a moment to realise that it would look as odd on a white person (or anyone, really).

    (She was rather comely, nonetheless — I can ignore such trivia)

  6. says

    Benetton pulls pope-imam kiss ad after Vatican protest (Linky):

    [Benetton] … said it was “sorry that the use of the image had so hurt the sensibilities of the faithful.”

    The statement came shortly after the Vatican expressed “the firmest protest for this absolutely unacceptable use of the image of the Holy Father.”

    I would have had the pope sucking face with a dead porcupine.

    @ TLC et al

    [chainsaws … and scaring yourself after the fact]

    I once had a job as a gardener. There I was, sawing through a branch against a hedge. I didn’t see the metal fence in the hedge. The chainsaw kicked back and missed my face by millimeters. I still cringe inside every time I think of that.

  7. says

    South Africa 1 for 43 at drinks on the first day of the second Test. Listen Live

    according to Fifa boss Blatter, both sides should just shake hands and get over it.

    Yeah, and fuck him too.

    Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand has hit out at FIFA president Sepp Blatter on the state of racism in football.

    Blatter claimed players should accept that racism, and other forms of abuse, is part of the game in the heat of the moment and that it should be resolved with a handshake.

    Could this principle be applied to rape, assault, murder as well I wonder ? “Sorry mate,about the whole clubbing your wife to death thing there, heat of the moment and all, no worries right !” (dramatization for illustrative purposes ok !)
    Blatter is such an insufferable asshole.

  9. John Morales says

    rorschach:

    Could this principle be applied to rape, assault, murder as well I wonder ?

    Being insulted ≠ being physically assaulted, so, no — not on the same basis.

  10. First Approximation says

    Blatter claimed players should accept that racism, and other forms of abuse, is part of the game in the heat of the moment and that it should be resolved with a handshake.

    Fuck him.

  11. says

    Being insulted ≠ being physically assaulted, so, no — not on the same basis.

    You did notice my drama disclaimer ? Btw, 2 for 50 something now. I have to go buy cigs, brb.

  12. John Morales says

    rorschach,

    You did notice my drama disclaimer ?

    Yes.

    (“Ask a silly question, get a silly answer”, as we say here — i.e. responding to the hyperbolic as literal with a straight face)

  15. says

    Can anyone here convince me why Zwarte Piet is not a racist stereotype?

    I mean, I get all the arguments about the two black ravens of Odin being the origin and him being covered in soot instead of being black, but what I see is a stereotype of a black person, blacker than black, accentuated lips and curly hair, who is acting dumb and/or goofy. How is that not racist or at the very least insulting?

    Very few people in the Netherlands seem to get this. Am I wrong? It’s also very hard to fight this, without telling your kids that *spoiler*.

    Here is a Dutch site protesting the racist stereotype of Zwarte Piet, with a very good piece by Liesbeth Tjon A Meeuw.

  17. says

    Here is a Dutch site protesting the racist stereotype of Zwarte Piet, with a very good piece by Liesbeth Tjon A Meeuw.

    The FAQ section amused me:

    Willen jullie het Sinterklaasfeest afschaffen?
    Nee.

    (Do you want to abolish Christmas. – No)

    In Germany, Santa Claus has traditionally been accompanied by Knecht Ruprecht, who is some kind of manservant to Santa Claus with a long staff to punish children who haven’t been good. Basically looks similar to Santa Claus in a “good cop, bad cop” kinda way.
    Apparently in some folk traditions Knecht Ruprecht is accompanied by captured devils whose roles are played by “men in blackface dressed like women” (though I’ve never seen this custom personally).

    But there is of course der Schwarze Mann (black man), the German version of the bogeyman, and little children are taught to fear him (symbolising strangers I guess) (is there a zwarte man in the Netherlands?). A tag game played by kids is called Who’s afraid of the black man?, though acc to the Pfft nowadays alternative names are preferred, such as stupid/evil/savage man/shark (Yeah, because “who’s afraid of the stupid savage” is soooo much better!!!)

  18. Beatrice says

    Krampus has a similar role here. He accompanies St Nicholas and bad children get a little bare stick from him. It’s supposed to represent the punishment the kid deserves, I guess. Today, those sticks are actually silver or white branches with a red ribbon, quite nice.

  19. Carlie says

    But there is of course der Schwarze Mann (black man), the German version of the bogeyman, and little children are taught to fear him (symbolising strangers I guess) (is there a zwarte man in the Netherlands?).

    Oh yes. Yes, there is.

  20. says

    Carlie,

    your article was about Zwarte Piet brought up by SQB, the Dutch companion of Santa Claus.

    I was asking if they had a black man as an equivalent to the bogeyman myth.

  21. Carlie says

    I stand corrected – I have not had my tea yet this morning, and am not properly caffeinated. And am making excuses for my own shoddy reading comprehension. :(

  23. Birger Johansson says

    Miscellaneous links:
    -How Pizza Became A Vegetable Through The Magic Of Influence-Peddling http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/16/pizza-vegetable-school-lunches-lobbyists_n_1098029.html Another Republican bill.

    -Twin study offers insight into antisocial behavior http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-twin-insight-antisocial-behavior.html Genetics may play a large role in psychopathy.

    -Leonid Meteor Shower Peaks on Thursday http://www.space.com/13637-leonid-meteor-shower-peak-observing-tips.html?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=SP_11162011

    -Scientists embark on Mongolia ice-making experiment http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-scientists-embark-mongolia-ice-making.html Could this be something for USA?
    -New York state may soon suffer outsize effects from climate, says report http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-york-state-outsize-effects-climate.html

  26. Ariaflame says

    Leonids? So that’s why it was rainy and cloudy tonight!

    (No, I don’t believe they cause rain or anything but it is frustrating how many times this date has been clouded or rained out here.)

  28. Muse (evidently temptress of Pharyngula women) says

    So the talk of Flowers for Algernon reminded me of Elizabeth Moon’s Speed of Dark which bears some resemblance to it, but is also a really interesting book.

  30. Jules says

    Hello, Thread! I’m so sporadic with my posting these days, but I promise I still love y’all.

    I’m popping in real quick, hoping to catch everyone who is going to be at Skepticon. Those of us on facebook can coordinate there, but cicely isn’t a user.

    So, cicely, what’s your plan? I will be there for all of Saturday (but probably not any of Friday). Sunday’s lineup looks really appealing, but I’ll have a 9-hour drive ahead of me, so I’m not certain how long I’ll last. I’m going to attend at least some of it (the last panel–the one on skepticism and mental illness–is one of the ones I want to see most *sigh*).

    Anyone else on here (and not on facebook) going? Where should we meet?

    I am pretty sure I can recognize Reality Enforcer and Rey Fox, having met them more than once, but my facial recognition issues might cause trouble for those I’ve only met once. And, of course, those I’ve never met will present a challenge as, alas, I am not psychic.

    So, what’s the plan?

    (P.S. I miss Muse and onion girl right about now…)

  31. Carlie says

    Jules! (hugs)

    I’m so jealous of skepticon. I do have a friend in Springfield who went last year, I think – I need to email her and see if she’s going this year.

  32. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Most people I meet just give me a blank stare when I ask them if they’ve ever read ‘Flowers for Algernon’. – TLC

    One of the saddest stories I’ve ever read. Brilliantly written, though.

    KG

    Yes it is. It’s been a long time since I last read it, and even so just remembering it still has a powerful impact. Agree w Carlie – the spelling and grammar are crucial and could never adequately be conveyed in film.

  34. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    Jules!!! *hugs*

    So, cicely, what’s your plan? I will be there for all of Saturday (but probably not any of Friday). Sunday’s lineup looks really appealing, but I’ll have a 9-hour drive ahead of me, so I’m not certain how long I’ll last. I’m going to attend at least some of it (the last panel–the one on skepticism and mental illness–is one of the ones I want to see most *sigh*).

    My plan is to show up before 9:00 on Saturday, and stay all day. Whether or not I go along to the Farmer’s Gastropub afterward is contingent in many ways on whether The Husband is able to get the front wheels on the wheelcair replaced, or not. If the answer is ‘not’, I expect to be pained and cranky, and will bail in search of drugs; if the answer is ‘yes’, it will depend on the proximity of FG to the Gillioz; if it’s a shortish roll, I will undertake it. I haven’t put in enough hours flying the wheelchair to suspect that my shoulders are up to any long trips.

    Sunday’s menu looks tempting, but unfortunately I won’t be there for it. Maybe some of the talks will be up later on YouTube?
    –
    Sailor, your linky @533 is borked.
    –

  35. says

    Rick Perry invited Spkr Pelosi to a debate.

    Her reply: MSNBC’s Mike O’Brien reports that Pelosi laughed at the request, saying she’ll be “out west” on Monday and not available to debate. She later wrote on Twitter: “Re: Gov. Perry–Monday I’ll be in Portland. Later visiting labs in CA. That’s 2. I can’t remember the 3rd thing.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/17/failing-miserably-in-gop-debates-perry-challenges-pelosi-instead/

  36. says

    *sigh*

    One of my Facebook friends posted this photo on his wall.

    I responded, “Y’know, the only thing *I’d* regret would be hooking up with someone who makes snide comments about someone’s weight.”

    Another of his friends replied, “Look out we have the moral police .”

    And the guy who posted the image said, “Even freud said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”

    I *so* want to say, “… and sometimes a shitstain is just a shitstain.” Can anyone give me a good reason not to?

  37. Dhorvath, OM says

    Might not be what I would say, but I can’t think of any good reason not to reply. Grainy picture is grainy and sometimes a thousand words tell the wrong tale. I dunno.

  38. Carlie says

    Benjamin – I’d be all for the ignore. Unless your mental reserves are full, there’s just no use wasting the effort. And I’d file it mentally under the person’s name in the list of “when there’s enough of this crap compared to anything interesting that I won’t feel bad at all defriending this person”.

  40. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    After all the sturm und drang of moving the FtB server, why is nothing any better than it was before? All morning this site has been taking 10 to 20 seconds to load (any blog, not just Pharyngula). Half the time it conks out saying “problem loading page.” Very, very frustrating.

  41. Cannabinaceae says

    Benjamin “∀ herp ∃ derp : herp derp” Geiger:

    Can anyone give me a good reason not to?

    Speaking for myself, I would use the “don’t post” tactic as an escalation-avoidance mechanism, which is good enough reason for me.

    On other topics, I have been coding like a maniac (procrastinating the job application thing ha ha) and finally have figures I can show a potential co-author. Conveniently he will be at a wine/beer tasting just a few blocks away…

    Just some Perl, SQL, glued-in-other-people’s-programs, and the vast array of genetic sequence data out there.

    …OK, well, gotta go. Must impoodlerate Toby, wrap up warm, then head on out to the tasting.

  42. Ms. Daisy Cutter says

    Has anyone else seen this article expressing “skepticism” about PTSD? I know Alternet’s a leftie site, but we all know that some lefties aren’t immune to buying into victim-blaming shit if it lets them get in jabs at “the establishment.”

  43. says

    cicely, thanks, link un-borked:
    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/11/17-5
    Former Philadelphia Police Captain Joins Occupy Protesters, Gets Arrested
    ++++++++++++++++++
    This has been 4 days of Mondays, I sure hope tomorrow feels like a Friday. We’re under the gun for a scientific meeting (ARVO) submissions and no one seems to have their abstracts together yet.

    It’s been challenging helping people who haven’t analyzed their data yet, and in some cases aren’t done collecting. The Turkey Day schedule is going to throw all in disarray (that’s a pun, I work with image arrays) right when all our labs are looking to me to do the back-end analysis and figures.

  46. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    John Morales and Sailor: But I use my right hand for absolutely everything else, so I can’t be THAT sinister.

    I was seeing a girl last night, and it turned out, LAST time I’d seen her, I’d left a tiny bit of weed at her house. And she actually saved it for me. Most people would have smoked it or tossed it, but no, she went and hung on to it. She couldn’t have known that I would be out of weed this time, but still, I am overflowing with pathetic pothead gratitude.

    Regarding Flowers for Algernon and the movie: I agree, spelling and grammar was crucial. FfA was recommended to me by my high school biology teacher. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he’s reading this thread right now, he really would have fit in here. But anyways, I was a crazy weird teenager trying to be a christian in those days. A supernaturalist and firm believer in ghosts. He was always recommending reading material for me, stuff that really expanded my brain (including every new edition of Skeptical Enquirer for a while,) and one I remember very fondly was Flowers for Algernon. Definitely got me thinking about stuff.

    Another good one, though the title always escapes me, was about this dystopian future where everyone was ‘guaranteed equality’, basically, so a guy who was really strong would have weights attached to his body, a person who was particularly beautiful would have to wear an ugly pig mask in public, and a person who was exceptionally intelligent would have to wear a device that makes random noises in his ear to screw up his thinking process.

  47. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Oh yeah, I wanted to also say a hypothetical Flowers for Algernon movie COULD be good, but it would have to be an ‘in spirit’ version in some ways. I’m sure there could be a good way of portraying the same improvement and decline onscreen, but they’d have to step away from the source material a bit.

  49. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    For not just John Morales (I’ll write to the others, tho’ I expect you to read this & am not trying to exclude the possibility of your feedback, should you want to give it).

    I normally have no problem arguing. However something came up with John Morales @

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2011/11/a-bully-plain-and-simple/

    I made a comment that someone’s “reasoning fail(ed)”. JM insisted that the logic didn’t fail, it was unsound. I tried to say that reasoning != logic.

    Is there another opinion available here, someone who’s willing to read what was written & try to say what John’s saying in another way. If he’s right & i’ve screwed something up, I’d like to know, however, I think that it’s quite standard to say that reason != formal logic (which is not even = logic) and that the world “fail” perfectly captures what happened to the endeavor, regardless of how it failed (in the premises or in the logic or in the use of the correct formal logic vocab).

    I also was trying to be ironic & funny with a quip at the end about English, but that flew over him, too. Now his snarky bit about me needing to stay away from logic til I could fathom it feels even worse – the fact that he couldn’t see any irony in what I was saying makes it seem more likely that what he said about logic was not meant in even the facially-vicious-but-really-we’re-just-having-fun-arguing way that was my previous best interpretation of what he said.

    And, frankly, I don’t know how to say what I’ve said other than to say that for literally hundreds of years we’ve used the English word “reason” to mean something distinct from, but often inclusive of, formal logic (in the same way that if I say someone’s math failed, I don’t necessarily mean that they added things wrong since arithmetic is only part of the process of math).

    Anyone willing to step in (or John, do you have something you think can truly clarify why you think I should never have expected people to distinguish reason from logic, or other points that have become contentious between us)?

  50. John Morales says

    TLC,

    … but still, I am overflowing with pathetic pothead gratitude.

    Good People, she seems to be; your gratitude is most appropriate.

  51. changeable moniker says

    @#549, I can only offer that a colleague did a PhD on “the logical necessity of proof”. This made my head hurt.

  53. changeable moniker says

    GAAAAAAAAH!

    Paging all FTB elves, paging all FTP elves, I already told you about the newline thing. Gah.

  54. says

    TLC, they made a pretty good movie, it’s called Charly.

    I will never, ever read the short story, the book or watch the movie ever again. It’s just too sad.

    I had amazing respect for Daniel Keyes, the author, even before I learned he gave back the book advance because they wanted to have a happy ending.

    It’s one of the best things I have ever read and watched, it made me hurt.
    ++++++++++++++++++

  55. Father Ogvorbis, OM: Delightfully Machiavellian says

    Hi. Still around. On vacation this week.

    Girl has introduced me to a band called Derp Kick Murphey. Kinda like Dick Gaughan with heavy rock versions of folk songs.

    Anyway, hi.

  57. says

    Oh, TLC, I agree with John Morales, seems like a good start with your (*** scurries around, trying to find the correct term … fails***) date?
    +++++++++++++
    As long as we’re talking about movies “A Boy And His Dog”

    Read it, saw the movie, enough’s enough. I don’t have to see it again, it’s locked into my brain. And that was years ago.

    Harlan Ellison is by all accounts an asshole, but what an asshole! He’s fucking brilliant he is.

  61. says

    Ogvorbis, part of me wants you to just haz fun and ignores the intertubes, but most of me wants to read more fire and steam stories … and whatever you feel like writing about.

  62. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Another good one, though the title always escapes me, was about this dystopian future where everyone was ‘guaranteed equality’, basically, so a guy who was really strong would have weights attached to his body, a person who was particularly beautiful would have to wear an ugly pig mask in public, and a person who was exceptionally intelligent would have to wear a device that makes random noises in his ear to screw up his thinking process.

    TLC

    I remember that story! It really stuck in my mind (even though the whole premise – in fact the whole story – was such a massive, massive strawmanning of the ideals of equality and level playing fields). But I can’t remember the title or author either, dammit.

    Whenever that happens – you know, you remember everything about a film or a story, but try as you might you just can’t remember the name? – we call it the Thomas Crown effect after a time (pre-the-days-of-having-google-at-one’s-fingertips-24/7) when we went for ages (it was days, maybe even weeks) trying off and on to remember the title of the damn film. Thank dog for the internet!

  64. Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne says

    Well, the new Firefox 8 still crashes on my Linux netbook when I try to open FtB; ditto the most recent Chrome. Opera too – which is very frustrating given it took me about 20 minutes to install it.

    The only one that’s even close to consistent is Midori – and it still borks out every now and then.

  66. Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne says

    I wish I knew. One day everything worked fine – had never had Firefox crash, ever – then one day every second page I opened (including all FtB pages) would kill it. Mozilla hasn’t been any help and neither has the Ubuntu forum.

    Very pissed off.

  69. Tethys says

    SQB

    Can anyone here convince me why Zwarte Piet is not a racist stereotype?

    Hmm, it does appear to be racist, but the folklore origins are interesting. Zwarte refers to Dark Elves who lived underground. Dwarves seems to be related linguistically, and has similar connotations as magical creatures who lived underground and were skilled miners and metalsmiths in folklore.

    Piet from latin Petra has the additional meaning of rock ie. Saltpeter

    Pelamun

    I was asking if they had a black man as an equivalent to the bogeyman myth.

    Oooh, this makes it even more interesting. I don’t think it originally referred to human men but nature spirits who could be either dark or light. Nickel=demon,goblin,rascal

    I have found Pelznickel here described as tall, thin and stern faced. He wears a green fur coat and arrrives on December 6th to fill childrens shoes with treats.

    He is distinct from the Christkindl who comes on December 24th and is described “When the door was opened, there stood an apparition dressed in a white sheet. In one hand it held a white linen bundle and in the other a flexible stick.”

    Treats for the good children, and switching for the bad.

    Another village has a slightly different tradition. There is the good “Starrnickel” and the scary horned “Stornickel” who hunts children.

    At Christmas time the children go “Zammetran?” just like at Easter time. Already on the evening before the Christ child comes, or the “Starrnickel?”, but today the tenderly raised children are not so energetic as in earlier times. The Christmas trees of our grandparents were much simpler than today. Usually a blackthorn branch was replaced with some apples and nuts on the Christmas tree. On the Christmas tree (Boxing Day) the lads ride out and receive from the girls ribbons in a row.

    Besides the reverence for Sylvester in the church, no events take place in the passing of the last days of the year. In the night one can still encounter the “Stornickel?”. He has a large felt cap, the “Schlaraffegsicht” (Cockaigne face), horns and a shaggy “Bunda?” on and his appearance with rattling chains and the “Bumschell?”, as well as his “Scheerestang?” (pole), he also hunts the courageous children whose legs are trembling.

    It is interesting to note that the Stornickel is abroad during the darkest part of winter. I am unsure of the etymology of “Stor”. It could refer to storms, or it could refer to the meatpole that he carries. Or in true Swabian fashion, it carries both connotations. Zammetran is the practice of going door to door collecting treats. Gingerbread cookies and silver coins are traditional.

  71. Tethys says

    Starstuff (and any other crochet/ needlework enthusiasts.

    Amazing crocheted appliques. I have no idea how she makes the veins in the flowers.

    The embroidered sampler translates AFAICT to “When cooking you should spare the coal, otherwise you will get black holes. (doughnuts)

  72. says

    Tethys,

    no doubt that the origin of Zwarte Piet and Schwarzer Mann lies with the belief in devils/evil spirits (maybe another modern continuation is the monster under the bed). The Krampus figure Beatrice spoke of is usually still depicted as a devilish figure.

  74. cicely, Inadvertent Phytocidal Maniac says

    With Flowers for Algernon, you could show the protagonist painfully scrawling his mis-spelled diary, and then later, typing on his laptop.

    Then, the misspellings and misgrammaring starts to slip into his typing….pointed up by Spellchecker….and he tries to compensate by going to a larger font size, thinking at first that it must be his vision going wonky….and eventually, he can’t remember how to run his word processing software….and goes back to the hand-written diary….

    I think I’ve read FfA twice; fore-knowledge did nothing to buffer the grief. Snot and tears, all over again.
    –

    Whenever that happens – you know, you remember everything about a film or a story, but try as you might you just can’t remember the name?

    Or a piece of music. I’ve been trying for frickin’ years to remember the name of this one piece my high school band played; yesterday, my so-reliable memory suddenly barfed it up while I was doing something else, not even thinking about music, or high school, or commencement (our class lobbied vigorously, but unsuccessfully, to be allowed to “process” in to graduation to this piece instead of tired ol’ Pompous Circumstances). It was The Patriots, “Processional March”, by Clifton Williams. I’m going to have to buy the download from Amazon, just to see how it matches my memory.
    –

  75. John Morales says

    bloggle, your pathetic nature (and your hoggling) is duly evident, there’s no need to click on your naked link and wade into its sputum.

    (Can’t even copypasta the name correctly — pretty piss-poor, that)

  76. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    The Sailor and John Morales: Thank you, she is pretty cool. I feel a bit bad for her though, she’s ‘too nice’. A lot of people appear to take advantage of her gentle and nonconfrontational nature.

  78. Tethys says

    Pelamun

    Krampus and Stornickel have much in common. Horns, chains, clanging bells.

    The traditional costume of Black Peter might trace back to The Wild Hunt. Many of those demons were pagan goddesses or their servants.

    I despise Charlemagne for burning all the pagan books.

  80. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Oh and Pteryxx: I’m finding your link on Gaslighting interesting. I heard the term a lot but my ideas of what it meant were fuzzy and ill informed, it appears, so thanks.

  81. Father Ogvorbis, OM: Delightfully Machiavellian says

    Dropkick Murphys are an integral part of New England life!

    And thank you for helping with the name of the band. I was going strictly on what Girl was saying.

    Apropos of nothing anybody here is talking about, but last night my wife and I bought our daughter her first legal cocktail.

    I was at a forest fire in New Mexico on Boy’s 21st birthday. And his thorough enjoyment of his first (and second and third) margheritas.

  82. boggle says

    http://integralmath.blogspot.com/2011/09/caine-fluer-du-mal-is-lying-she-hag-and.html#disqus_thread

    It’s the truth, right there. You baboons just sit around showing your arses to each other, wanking with furious purpose and shrieking at intruders. Being baboons, when your alpha male scolds you for attacking a friendly monkey, you run away hooting “it wasn’t me, I was just, err, stroking the wee thing. It was that bitch-monkey Abbie that did it all. Do you still love me?”.

  85. Algernon says

    Ugh. I just realized I can’t handle the article on gaslighting. Of all the things in my past that is the one that really gets me, and the one I think has had the most lasting impact on my sanity.

    Honestly, that happened to me so much… and I now realize it was deliberate (and much worse than I thought but I couldn’t have known that then). The game was to get me to admit to doing something I hadn’t (more things here that can’t be said publicly for reasons those very close to me here know). This confused me so much that in school I could *not* tell the difference between something bad happening and having done something bad. Which led to more pointless punishment. I know that’s not what the article is about… rather more extreme. But this rather familiar torture to confession or just constantly badger with false “memories” until nothing seems real still bothers me. I honestly feel capable of dealing with some of the other things, but the amazing vulnerability of not knowing how to keep other people from taking control of your mind and whole sense of being left me open to… well… that.

    I have trouble sustaining even what most people would call a basic narrative sense of reality. It is, much less obviously disturbing than psychosis. As a kid one of the ways I dealt was to believe sometimes I was mistaken for my doppelganger. That some times I was her and I forget. After a while… there was no difference anymore.

    *shudders*

    Some things in my mind are like shining lures on the ocean floor. I go for them, and the water goes murky with clouds. What was I down there for anyway? I’ll go there to drown I suppose some day. Until then…

  87. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    That makes me sad to hear Algernon.

    My former friend appears to have used it more than once or twice on me. I wasn’t really susceptible to it, so I just wrote it off as me being just a touch smarter than him and having a vastly better memory, but eventually I realized excusing it and/or ignoring it was almost the same as ‘falling for it’.

    I don’t think he tried too hard on me though, the sad part is I think he saved his better tricks for women. One of his ex’s and I are still good friends, and she’s such a goodhearted person it makes me a bit sick to remember the cold and uncaring way he treated her. She was a convenient live in babysitter and domestic servant, because he was just ‘traditional like that’. I can’t say if he used the tactic on her, but I wouldn’t doubt it for a second.

  88. julian says

    Oh, would you just fuck off already?

    Careful.

    With the way Ms. Smith and Friends interpret such things, Mr. Hoggle will soon have a tirade up about how Pharyngula endorses and encourages sexual violence against men.

    Because, after all, telling someone to fuck off is the same as vocalizing you wish you could kick their cunt in.

  89. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    As I’ve said, I’ve come to embrace my baboon self. After all, I am a primate, and I do have a thick ruff of hair around my head and neck, and I do possess canine teeth. The evidence is there.

    But even from this lowly savage simian perspective, Hoggle and his hogglin’ ways still seem like an evolutionary dead end.

  90. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Yay for Coyote’s date! What luck to meet someone who actually saved that bit of pot you left behind should you ever come around looking for it. Sounds like she’s a considerate person, something very few people seem to appreciate these days.
    ——————————————

    I finally bought Wyrd Sisters. And I love it! I want to get every book in the Discworld series. Like I don’t have enough books already…
    ——————————————-

    The last time my head just seemed to HUM with sexual energy was maybe back when I first started dating. Between M being ill and having the kids, plus Thanksgiving plans, J and I had to forget about seeing each other tomorrow night. It seems that when my body is anticipating sex, and then realizes it’s not going to happen, that puts my libido out of sorts.
    ——————————————-

    Writer’s block seems to have gone away, although that may be only temporary. Now I just have to decide which pieces to send where.
    ——————————————-

    Bill Dauphin: Heh, Mom admitted later that seeing my brother with an actual glass of beer in his hand for the first time on his 21st was a shocker. One of those times when imagining doesn’t quite prepare you for the reality, I guess.

  91. julian says

    @Algernon

    I’m sorry for what you had to endure and I’m sorry you have to endure it today. Everyone deserves a self independant from the world.

  92. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Insomniac: I didn’t even look for it, I’d totally forgotten about it, which is what made it a pleasant surprise. Considerate people seem to be rare in this world, and should be treated with due consideration in turn whenever come across.

  93. boggle says

    @ boggle

    Oh, would you just fuck off already?

    Yes, yes, we understand you hate us. Now go away and do something better with your time than bother us.

    I don’t hate you, I just pity your simian lives upon this baboon island. So starved of intellectual food are you that you are forced to subsist upon the occasional trollbone. However, because your endless hooting is associated with a big A/S traffic-gatherer, I have to show up your bullshit in order to advance the cause.

    “Would you just fuck off already?” Nope. Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

    Your insular nonsense needs to be shown up for the Myers-money-making-mess it is.

  94. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Boggle: Here’s a tissue for when you’re done.

    And for fuck sakes, wash your hands this time.

  95. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Your insular nonsense needs to be shown up for the Myers-money-making-mess it is.

    Proof you are a baboon making baboon noises saying “Look at me, the loser”…

  96. Algernon says

    I have to show up your bullshit in order to advance the cause.

    You are just showing your own bullshit. Nothing else. No exposure. You can’t control what other people will make of any of this. The fact that you think you can, well that is really all that needs to be known about you.

  97. Algernon says

    Anyway, you mean contempt, not pity. Pity implies empathy which you lack. You’re just a sick fuck. Plenty like you in the world. Always will be.

  98. Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarne says

    Don’t feed the troll, people. He’s a coward who’s only here while PZ is busy elsewhere.

  100. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I didn’t even read more than a third of that Caine article. It appeared to be a weird obsessive point-by-point of a whole bunch of stuff Justicar or whoever didn’t like. If there was an underlying point to it all it was completely lost on me, but what do I know.

    I am after all, just a baboon.

  101. julian says

    Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

    We quoting Rage Against The Machine now? Dude, they are soooo, like, 90’s. What’s next, LimpBizkit?

  102. says

    @ TLC

    Yeah, I read most of it. It was utterly pointless. And the comments section is just a bunch of butthurt people who apparently have something personal against PZ and the commenters here. Honestly, it’s one of the most pathetic things I’ve read in a while.

  104. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Starstuff: Yeah, it’s pretty poorly written on top of being pointless. I give it an F. For Fuck off already.

  106. Father Ogvorbis, OM: Delightfully Machiavellian says

    Damn. I though I was the Ranger. Oh, well.

    Then again, I don’t even rate with those bozos, so . . . .

  107. says

    ahs: If I remember rightly, Kevin Carson rejects the label “anarcho-capitalist”, since he argues that actual existing capitalism has always been bound up with coercive state violence, used to protect the interests of the owners of capital against the poor, and that corporate power and state power in the real world are deeply intertwined. (On that specific point I think he’s right, though I don’t agree with many of the rest of his views.) Rather, he refers to himself as a “market anarchist” or “individualist anarchist”, since he contends that the ideal of a non-coercive market society which he espouses bears no resemblance to actual real-world capitalism.

    (I didn’t know he blogged at Alternet, though. I just remember reading some of his writing back in my libertarian days; so I could be misrepresenting him.)

  108. texan realist says

    Pathetic. Can’t even blockquote.

    Don’t feed the troll, people. He’s a coward who’s only here while PZ is busy elsewhere.

    I do not track PeeZus’s movements, unlike you freakish sycophants.

    You are just showing your own bullshit. Nothing else. No exposure. You can’t control what other people will make of any of this. The fact that you think you can, well that is really all that needs to be known about you.

    Hehe, completely meaningless. Is English a second language for you?

    Proof you are a baboon making baboon noises saying “Look at me, the loser”…

    This is just noise. What the fuck are you trying to say to me, little monkey? Oh, how I wish I could speak your language.

    Boggle: Here’s a tissue for when you’re done.

    And for fuck sakes, wash your hands this time.

    Is this a wanking reference? How heterophallonormative of you to assume that a troll is male.

  109. Father Ogvorbis, OM: Delightfully Machiavellian says

    Is this a wanking reference? How heterophallonormative of you to assume that a troll is male.

    You think that female humans are incapable of masturbation? Wow. The bullshit is strong in this one.

    And on that note, g’night, all.

  110. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    Walton: you characterize his own claims accurately. I give him the label anyway, as I am not bound to accept his fantasies about how True Free Markets will be totally awesome.

    Every anarcho-capitalist has a similar fantasy about what a stateless laissez faire society will look like. Carson describes the same crap, but has the good P.R. sense to understand that the word capitalism probably is beyond rehabilitation.

  112. Algernon says

    Is English a second language for you?

    And if it was?

    The point stands though, the fact that you can’t grasp it is also of no consequence.

    You can not control what others will make of your efforts. Only idiots and bullies presume to be able to.

  113. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    Father Ogvorbis: On top of that, I assumed ‘Boggle’ was a poor pseudonym for ‘hoggle’, whom we all know is male.

  114. says

    John:

    bloggle, your pathetic nature (and your hoggling) is duly evident, there’s no need to click on your naked link and wade into its sputum.

    It is pathetic, because the post they keep linking to is old news. They could at least attempt to stay current.

  115. says

    Oh, I just googled and realized it was also Carson who coined the term “vulgar libertarianism”. Referring to those libertarians – a very widespread breed – who use the rhetoric of “free markets” and “individual freedom” in defence of existing corporate capitalism and the power and privilege of the rich, while ignoring the fact that real-world capitalism is not a free market and never has been, and that coercive state violence has always played a huge role in creating and sustaining the existing capitalist order.

    I’m talking about the sorts of “libertarians” who will argue that taxing the Koch brothers or regulating their business activities is illegitimate coercion, but that deploying armed riot police to forcibly eject protestors from the Koch brothers’ properties is simply “self-defence”. The sort who deny that private property rights are built on state coercion, and, accordingly, are happy for coercive violence to be used as long as it defends the existing economic order and the power of the rich.

    Up to this point I agree with Carson: I think he’s right that the imaginary non-coercive society that individualist anarchists desire, in which everyone owns the product of hir own labour and trades it freely with others through voluntary transactions, bears no resemblance to capitalism as it actually exists in the real world. But I’m unable to join in his utopian aspirations for what a hypothetical free society would look like; because I honestly don’t know how we could tackle the question of the distribution of wealth and resources in a truly non-coercive society. More realistically, I suspect that the abolition of the nation-state would just lead to the power-vacuum being filled by the local gang of armed thugs, as it has in places like Somalia.

  117. says

    Well, my feminist hair got chopped off today. The allergic reaction I had is still going strong and not being able to brush my hair at all since last Thursday…ugh. No way was I going to be able to get it untangled. Broke the news to Mister via e-mail today, he took it okay, even though he prefers my hair long.

  118. Algernon says

    I can’t believe some one can post something on this thread that is so stupid and so boring that I find myself thinking “Oh good! Walton is writing about Libertarianism!”

  119. says

    I can’t believe some one can post something on this thread that is so stupid and so boring that I find myself thinking “Oh good! Walton is writing about Libertarianism!”

    Well, I haven’t done so on a regular basis for years now. And I’m criticizing libertarians (or at least a certain widespread school of libertarian thought). Give me some credit. :-)

    (Besides, at least I’m not talking about monarchy.)

  121. says

    Argh. It seems my italic tag – such a gentle, delicate-seeming creature – broke loose from its pen, rampaged, and wreaked havoc all over the penultimate and ultimate paragraphs of my preceding comment. That was embarrassing.

  123. says

    Shorter Walton

    “I’m not a psychopath! I am a high functioning sociopath!”

    Eh… what? I think you’ve misunderstood me. :-/

    Observing that there are different schools of thought that can be termed “libertarian” does not imply that I agree with any of them. For the record, I’m not an individualist anarchist; but I do agree with his analytical criticism of mainstream “libertarianism”. (Much of what passes for “libertarian” thought in modern Anglo-American politics, after all, is just plain old right-wing capitalist-conservatism fluffed up with some extra rhetoric. I didn’t think that was a controversial observation around here.)

  124. eric watkins says

    Is English a second language for you?

    And if it was?

    Fucking perfect proof of my point: this question/question combination never happens when a horde member asks the first one. You all are just so happy to use the trolls’ methods when it suits you.

    If you aren’t a baboon? Fuck you, asshole loser dickface etc.

    Laughable.

    boggle

  125. says

    I’m not sure. Is Coyote a Ranger or a Druid?

    I’m feeling weirdly meta; I just set my character on Sims Social to playing computer games…

    I don’t think I’ll stick with it, though. I don’t mind a bit of world-building, but a castle with dragons or a floating island in the sky or a fairground full of cute anthropomorphic animals is much more my scene. Sims are weird. And just how many fucking showers does a cartoon character need anyway? Face it, having a shower is just so much less interesting than mining for flame crystals.

  126. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    He knows how to cultivate a niche market, that’s for sure. I wonder if Chuck Munson ever looks over his shoulder, sees Kevin Carson, and thinks “there’s that guy again; is he following me?”

  127. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    what’s your point? That we treat people who just come in posting shit differently from people who have actually built up a bit of goodwill here?

    This revelation is almost too much for my little baboon-brain to handle! Truly, the scales have fallen from mine eyes.

  128. says

    Oh, I used to love The Sims! And Sim City. (Before I started playing computer games, my favourite pastime was to build Playmobil towns and make up stories about the characters’ everyday lives.)

    I’ve never been interested in games that are about “winning” or “strategy” and suchlike (hence why I wasn’t so fond of Age of Empires and the like). I just want to create a fictional world that is as similar as possible to the one I imagine, and then run it indefinitely.

  129. says

    (Before I started playing computer games, my favourite pastime was to build Playmobil towns and make up stories about the characters’ everyday lives.)

    (I should add, for the sake of clarity, that this was when I was a small child. I don’t play computer games any more, because (a) my laptop has very limited graphics capability, which tends to lead to one’s SimCities briefly disappearing and then reappearing in interesting shades of purple; and (b) I’d never get any work done if I did.

    Though I still love inventing, and reading, stories about fictional societies. I actually really enjoy nswiki.net, the NationStates wiki; I’ve never actually played NationStates and have no interest in doing so, but I love the wiki articles people write about their fictional countries’ political systems, cultures, societies, histories and so on. Some, of course, are of higher quality than others.)

  130. Tethys says

    Caine

    I hope the allergic reaction resolves itself soon. How do you like the hair cut? Is it feminist hair? :-0
    —-
    Poor wittle boggy pants, not even worth a gnaw.

  132. SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu says

    “I’m not a psychopath! I am a high functioning sociopath!”

    Seems more descriptive of Ahs than of Walton.

  133. says

    Tethys:

    I hope the allergic reaction resolves itself soon. How do you like the hair cut? Is it feminist hair?

    Me too. The swelling is gone, but I now have a body wide rash and blisters all over. Narstiness. The hair? Oh, I’ve had it this short before (about half inch all over, kinda spiky). My hair grows very quickly, so I don’t care.

    I don’t know if it’s feminist hair or not. As Algernon said, the rules keep changing. Used to be undyed hair was feminist hair; now dyed hair is feminist hair. All the dye isn’t washed out as of yet, so…partly feminist? Dunno the rulez about length. I probably have feminist butch hair now. Or somethin’.

  134. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    Seems more descriptive of Ahs than of Walton.

    What a fine day.

    Let off whatever steam you have. I of course have no feelings to hurt.

  136. says

    Sally, I gather that Ing wasn’t calling me a sociopath; rather, as I understood hir, xe was using a colourful analogy to express the view that Carson’s attempt to distinguish his own philosophy from that of “vulgar libertarians” is just meaningless empty rhetoric, and that a libertarian is a libertarian is a libertarian. I don’t entirely agree with that view – I think there are fundamental analytical differences between conventional libertarianism and Carson’s brand of “market anarchism” which are worth discussing, out of academic interest if nothing else – but I don’t have time to expand on it now, because it’s past midnight and I need to sleep.

  137. says

    Damn. Now those were some poorly-constructed sentences at #636. My brain seems to be melting (or at least those parts thereof that deal with grammar and coherent self-expression).

  138. SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu says

    It wasn’t an insult either way, to either Walton or Ahs. It’s a quote from the modern version of Sherlock Holmes, starring Benedict Cumberbatch (excellent series). Ing was comparing Walton to Sherlock Holmes. I was comparing Ahs to Sherlock Holmes. Affectionately. No hard feelings anywhere.

  139. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    Ah. Well there’s a cultural reference that went way over my head.

    Here I was wondering if, after all my talk of hunting Singularitarians with garlic and wooden stakes, my defense of plagiarism was the last straw.

  140. Jules says

    I’m fairly well acquainted with gaslighting, too. My ex-husband did it to me so badly that I was pretty disoriented for a while. Hell, probably still am. It wasn’t just that he would make me quit every job I got, or have me work in his bakery, then not pay me, then say I wasn’t contributing to the family; it was stuff like waking me up at 3 a.m. (sometimes crying, sometimes energetic with a new plan for business), or selling my furniture behind my back or breaking my possessions and then acting like he’d never heard of them. He also took out credit cards and a cell phone in my name without my knowledge, and when I confronted him about it, he told me that I’d agreed to it.

    Even thinking about it now has me all twisted up.

    But that could be because I spent the day on facebook with a family member who was doing it too. Not breaking my alarm clock or nice dishes or killing my houseplants, obviously, but finding a particular label and insisting that it fit me (the label was “spoiled,” which is a pretty fucking annoying label to get saddled with when you’ve lived below the poverty line for your entire goddamn adult life, excepting the last year or so, and still managed to pay off the debt from your psychopathic ex-husband).

    I still have nightmares about my ex. The one and only time one of my episodes of sleep paralysis deviated from my usual demon possession theme, the creature that was holding me down and crushing my chest was him.

  141. chigau (む) says

    awesome, I really like your current ‘nym-extension.
    I, too, wish I had more middle fingers.
    ——
    I, for one , welcome 10-15 cm of snow.
    It covers the disgraceful mess we left the garden in.
    I could do without the -18°C, though.
    ——
    Caine
    Sorry about your hair.
    I had a buzz-cut for a while and liked it.
    But I grew tired of being addressed as “Sir”.
    More for the embarrassment on the part of the addressers than any distress on my part.
    I also sported a mullet for a short time.

  143. chigau (む) says

    Jules
    *hugs* and rum, if you like.
    A fairly close genetic kin of mine acted kinda like that.
    Later diagnosed as an actual Schizophrenic.
    Not that that makes it any better.

  145. The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus) says

    I’m still reading the comments in the gaslighting article. Very educational.

  146. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    commenter Peter N over at B&W suggests “vanity killing” as a replacement for the term “honor killing”. I think it’s 100% brilliant.

  147. chigau (む) says

    I had to google Brian Warner.
    and I must say:
    “Marilyn Manson is over 40 years old, bwahahah.”

  148. says

    Farmer’s Gastropub

    A rather unfortunate name for a pub, I have to say. Do they serve meals ?

    ;)

    34C/93F here today, bit on the oppressive side. Cricket later tonight. And writer’s block. Or rather, topic block.

  149. says

    Walton, if I’m playing a game I don’t want too much reality. So the Sims don’t resonate for me.

    Feminist hair… dunno. I have hippy hair – long, undyed or occasionally hennaed. (Flow it, show it, long as I can grow it, my hair.)

  150. SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhu says

    I had a totally shaven head for a few years in my twenties. It was nice, and funny. And annoying sometimes. People complimented me on the shape of my head, which was odd. And they wanted to “pet” me–literally, that was the word they used. Which was nice sometimes and annoying others.

    I kind of want to cut all my hair off. But then I’d be pigeonholed and people would look at me oddly.

  151. says

    @ SQB

    Zwarte Piet…

    Back when I lived in Delft, I used to schmink my face and dress up as Zwarte Piet in order to earn much needed extra money. In my experience (YMMV) there were no negative connotations to this in any of the families or communities that I worked in.

    Both St Nicholaas and Zwarte Piet where seen as heroes by the children, who where often quite beside themselves with joy at our arrival. This holds true in both the native Dutch (autochtone) and Surinamer (allochtone) communities. Zwarte Piet is, like myself, an African. St Nicholaas is Turkish (though generally presented as an old white guy).

    The idea is to fairly faithfully represent individual fantasy characters and certainly not to insult anyone’s ethnicity. I think this is generally understood.

    Tethys and pelamun raise interesting points too. I do not know for certain how much of the original “magick” can be read into the modern version of the story but it is interesting to note that blackening one’s face was once part of the ancient yearly harvest rituals in Europe.

    @ All

    Theophontes has completed another circle around the sun, and feels very old.

  152. chigau (む) says

    Since I first heard about Hair donation, I have wanted to.
    But it takes me 10 years to grow it to a decent length.
    By that time, the hair is not that good.

  153. ahs ॐ i wasn't born with enough middle fingers says

    That’s like 80 in rock star years.

    And in other “storm’s a brewin, my knee’s acting up” news, Kurt Cobain would be 44.

  155. John Morales says

    Theophontes has completed another circle around the sun, and feels very old.

    May very old Theophontes one day wistfully recall the days when Theophontes only thought Theophontes felt very old.

    (Cheers!)

  157. says

    Happy Birthday, Theophontes!

    Regarding Zwarte Piet/Schwarzer Mann:

    I see this along the debates of the etymology of offensive words: it might be true that term X originated as an unoffensive term, but now that it has become to be seen as offensive, one should strive to avoid it.

    And I don’t doubt your experience that these customs not necessarily are celebrated in a consciously racist manner. But the bottom line is that to many people these customs have become offensive, as evidenced by the Zwarte Piet is racisme movement which was started by Dutch Surinamese people.

    In a similar vein, I don’t doubt that the Schwarze Mann originally came from devils/fairies, and then maybe from the general fear of strangers instilled in little children. But I think nowadays the Schwarze Mann runs the risk of reinforcing racial stereotypes.

  158. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    Happy circumnavigation-of-the-sun day, Theophontes!

  159. John Morales says

    pelamun:

    But the bottom line is that to many people these customs have become offensive

    In America, “Happy Holidays” has become to be seen as offensive to many people.

    Do you advocate that, therefore, one should strive to avoid it?

  160. says

    John Morales,

    I of course meant “become offensive” for touching racial sensibilities. You’re right that I didn’t specify that in that one sentence, but I think that was implicit from what I wrote, i.e. “racial stereotypes”.

  162. John Morales says

    pelamun, excellent response.

    (Yeah, I was basically quote-mining there. Careless, that)

    That reinforcing racial stereotypes is a bad thing is also implicit, but not a claim I care to dispute.

  163. chigau (む) says

    theophontes
    Happy Birthday!
    —
    It took me 15 minutes to post this.
    The combination of cheap netbook, Explorer and FtB is lethal!!!!!1!!!

  164. John Morales says

    chigau,

    The combination of cheap netbook, Explorer and FtB is lethal!!!!!1!!!

    Under those circumstances, you should consider composing your comments on Notepad or similar, then pasting them into the comment box for publication.

    (I noticed that at work not long ago, when using a networked thin client to access this site. The software we are using is extremely inefficient (even back in DOS days a mere keystroke triggered a large number of interrupts and a huge amount of processing before it was echoed — and things have become far, far worse since then))

  165. Birger Johansson says

    I found two news items that go against “common wisdom”.

    “Massive volcanoes, meteorite impacts delivered one-two death punch to dinosaurs: study” http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-massive-volcanoes-meteorite-impacts-one-two.html
    The asteroid impact at Chixchulub merely coincided with the second magma flood event in India.
    — — — — — — — — — — —
    “Treatment for juvenile offenders shows positive results 22 years later” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-treatment-juvenile-positive-results-years.html
    But since the effective treatment costs money I anticipate Republicans saying “just send them to boot camp”.

  168. ChasCPeterson says

    169 for no wicket at lunch on day 2

    Sleep furiously, colorless green ideas.

    —

    You see, boggle & the hogglers are now engaged in a long-term campaign to prove that PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, Ophelia Benson, and their friends, defenders, and commentariates are hypocritical. This single-minded quest gives meaning to their pathetic internet lives. Only by continually reminding each other that their sworn tribal enemies are fallible and inconsistent hypocrites can they maintain their own tribal cohesion, now an end rather than a means. It is their imperative. Might as well get used to it. There is no distance they are unwilling to stretch to score a stupid gotcha point. Sometimes Abbie notices!!!!!!!!

    (Shortly this will all be quoted back as a big snuggly warm tu quoque and they will chortle with glee. Personally, I think they have a limited point–the tribalism is a little thick around here too imo.)

  169. Algernon says

    Fucking perfect proof of my point: this question/question combination never happens when a horde member asks the first one.

    Well that’s a lie.

  170. Algernon says

    Even if that weren’t an outright lie, it would still only imply that no troll or outsider has *ever* thought to question just what is meant to be insulting about speaking English as a second language.

    In this case, the point was perfectly clear, as evidenced by the idiot’s continued denial of it.

  171. Algernon says

    I think they have a limited point–the tribalism is a little thick around here too imo

    I don’t know. I don’t actually feel particularly “plugged in” or connected to people here these days. I just pop in when it suits me and talk to whoever cares while doing my best to ignore the rest. There are people I get along with and people I just don’t want anything to do with. This makes it less a family and more a “place” to me, which is ok. I used to feel that way, but that was when I was more concerned with belonging. Now, I only notice it when certain people use belonging or not-belonging in an attempt to get power or control or to be hurtful.

    But there are people like that in every and any group.

  172. Birger Johansson says

    I am 100 in rock star years.
    Speaking of which… a generation ago Mick Jagger wrote to Margaret Thatcher and angrily demanded the government do something about unemployment among the youth. She replied that he should stick to music instead of politics. Today it seems as if Jagger’s concern has been overwhelmingly vindicated:

    “UK Politics: The Shameful Squandering of One Million Young Lives” http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/anne-marie-carrie/youth-unemployment-shameful-squandering-of-one-million-young-lives_b_1097631.html?ref=uk
    — — — — — — — —
    Dumb And Dumber:
    Swedish uni sacks man over pro-Breivik blog http://www.thelocal.se/37408/20111117/
    “Girlfriend turns in coke-snorting cop after call to prostitute” http://www.thelocal.se/37414/20111117/

  174. Dianne says

    effective treatment costs money

    That’s often the problem with effective treatment. But think of the savings in court and prison costs later on. Oh, wait, prisons are now for-profit institutions that don’t want to be deprived of their slave labor pool. Never mind. Carry on as usual.

  175. KG says

    while ignoring the fact that real-world capitalism is not a free market and never has been, and that coercive state violence has always played a huge role in creating and sustaining the existing capitalist order. – Walton

    Sorry, just wanted to see that again, to remind myself how far Walton’s travelled, and give myself an ego-stroke for helping him (if rather brutally) on his way – I remember using practically identical language in arguing with him.

  176. Ms. Daisy Cutter says

    Tethys: Dwarf isn’t etymologically related to Zwarte. The latter means “black, dark, dirty,” and is cognate with English swarthy, German/Yiddish Schwartze, and Latin sordidus. The former is discussed here; it may come from a proto-Indo-European root meaning “something tiny,” and it has no cognates outside the Germanic languages.

    Hoggle, if you’re still here:

    Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.

    Do not, under any circumstances, shove a cactus up your ass.

    Caine: Sorry to hear about the allergic reaction. I don’t think it’s whether hair is dyed or not that’s “feminist”; it’s whether it’s dyed an “appropriate” color. If Rebecca had dyed hers blonde, that’d have been OK for the troll, but she dyed it bright red, and poor babby can’t fap to that.

    Jules: Does this family member pull that crap often with you? Might be better off unfriending them and avoiding them IRL.

    Theophontes: Happy Birthday!

  177. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    You see, boggle & the hogglers are now engaged in a long-term campaign to prove that PZ Myers, Rebecca Watson, Ophelia Benson, and their friends, defenders, and commentariates are hypocritical. This single-minded quest gives meaning to their pathetic internet lives. Only by continually reminding each other that their sworn tribal enemies are fallible and inconsistent hypocrites can they maintain their own tribal cohesion, now an end rather than a means. It is their imperative. Might as well get used to it. There is no distance they are unwilling to stretch to score a stupid gotcha point. Sometimes Abbie notices!!!!!!!!

    (Shortly this will all be quoted back as a big snuggly warm tu quoque and they will chortle with glee. Personally, I think they have a limited point–the tribalism is a little thick around here too imo.)

    yeps

  178. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I’ll have to admit it, I’m looking forward to taking my niece to see the new Muppet Movie next week.

    I hope there’s a lot of Beaker.

  180. Algernon says

    Sorry, just wanted to see that again, to remind myself how far Walton’s travelled

    I know!

    Ugh… Walton gives me hope for people.