This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread
Dec 05 2012
[Thunderdome]
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682 comments
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cm's changeable moniker
10 December 2012 at 5:22 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thanks sgbm! I had to do Greasemonkey, edit user scripts, copy/paste, but I have hushfile again.
Weed Monkey
10 December 2012 at 5:31 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
consciousness razor:
Oh, that’s nice. I tried it a few aeons ago and at that time couldn’t get it away.
Caine, Fleur du mal
10 December 2012 at 5:56 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
You don’t get out of life alive. None of us.
– Doug Erwin.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 8:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
consciousness razor,
Yeah, that might be it. I don’t recall whether Wikia offered SSL when I started hosting scripts there, but in any case I wasn’t using it. I’ve just now set the killfile script to use SSL for updates, so you can keep that option checked, but you’ll need to manually download the new version (third one today, I know) which has @updateURL, @downloadURL and @version in the headers. Serverside caching caveat goes here; wait a couple days if you have to.
+++++
Scratch this request:
BTW, does anybody still have a copy of Daniel Martin’s last update to his killfile (the one that worked back at ScienceBlogs)?I got it now. His website was only down temporarily today.
+++++
tests:
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 9:35 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT! WAKE YOUR CATS!
New version of Secret Comic Sans script now brings back Mr Gumby.
chigau (無)
10 December 2012 at 9:42 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
i don’t understand any of this
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 9:44 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Wake your cats and ask them to explain.
Nepenthe
10 December 2012 at 9:46 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
She’s just staring at me and requesting tummy rubs. I don’t see what that has to do with Mr. Gumby.
chigau (無)
10 December 2012 at 9:53 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
‘wake the cat’?
You must be mad.
I value my skin.
[I suppose I could {use a can-opener} or {sharpen a knife}]
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 9:53 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
At http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Greasemonkey there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get the new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 9:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
At PharynguWiki there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get this new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 9:56 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
At PharynguWiki there is the Secret Comic Sans script. You might have to purge the cache first. If you get this new version installed, you’ll see a Gumby in my blockquote above.
consciousness razor
10 December 2012 at 9:57 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I see no gumby. I was promised a gumby. Your brontosaurus can’t even get me a gumby? How pathetic.
Is he willing to provide a gumby, but not able? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is my lack of a gumby?
consciousness razor
10 December 2012 at 9:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Oh. Never mind. I purged the cache. LOL.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 10:01 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I see the Gumby.
Perhapsh you have not properly performed the cache purging rituals. Try them again counterclockwise.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 10:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
A HA
Now kiss my pope rings.
Xanthë
10 December 2012 at 10:07 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
*mwah* Hey, this is fun!
consciousness razor
10 December 2012 at 10:08 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Never. Double-poperdy is unconstitutional.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 10:13 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Bishop Bill Murphy is a secret Brontosaurusist. Catholic commenters, envious of his freethinking, say ridiculous shit.
theophontes (坏蛋)
10 December 2012 at 10:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ StevoR
Mwahahahaha…. (Lurk moar!!!)
Mwahahahaha …. The Greeks are the most mongrel of all (so called) Europeans. Hell, they even speak an Indo-European language! Like the Iranians!!! StevoR, don’t go digging around in the past to justify racism. It just ain’t gonna work.
This has got to take the cake!
Euphemism for Authoritarian.
@ All
Mmmmh. would this work as a nym?:
Xanthë
10 December 2012 at 10:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Quick question, is there an easy css modification to display hidden <abbr> text? I notice theophontes (坏蛋) put several hidden text messages in the immediate previous post, but in the new look FtB theme there is no indication (…) that they are there.
FYI, TIAT.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 10:59 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Damned misleading announcement! Suggests @updateURL can be HTTP while @downloadURL is HTTPS and “Require secure updates” will still work. As far as I can tell this is a lie.
Killfile and Secret Comic Sans now, and only just now, finally should update automatically for everyone (whether “Require secure updates” is checked or not) who installs them after this moment. The good versions are 6.0.1.
Sheeeeeesh.
Xanthë
10 December 2012 at 11:01 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Discovered the answer to my own question: browsers like chrome require an extra line of css:
<style>abbr {border-bottom: 1px dotted black;}
</style>
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 11:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
You might want to specify only those with title attributes, and don’t forget acronym is “different” from abbr so it needs to be mentioned too.
abbr[title], acronym[title] {border-bottom: dotted 1px;}
theophontes (坏蛋)
10 December 2012 at 11:35 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@Xanthë
I just use the < abbr title=”" > tags for side remarks/snark. The downside is that some browsers (eg on cellphones) don’t show the contents, so better to only use for trivial asides.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 11:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Set: 3 Mins, 24 Secs
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
10 December 2012 at 11:44 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I feel so lost trying to follow you folks talking about all this kill/hush-file stuff, or HTML, or any of the other computer stuff. It comes so easy for some people. For others, like me…not so much.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
10 December 2012 at 11:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
We can talk about how a duck evolves into a shoop overnight.
How theophontes is a great and magnificent leader who will never be overthrown.
And why PZ is a poopyhead.
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 12:02 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ SGBM
*Snorfle*
Reminds me…. there is a Monty Python for that.
Linky Linkytube.
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 12:07 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ SGBM
My support for the Politburo’s religio-military complex has not gone unnoticed, nor unrewarded, by Our Divine Double Papeness .
LykeX
11 December 2012 at 12:22 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I wasn’t sure if that was true of Turkey specifically, so I did a little googling:
Yikes!
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 12:55 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ LykeX
Mr Backlash: “If your misogynist bigotry is failing to stop the onslaught of civilisation, then TRY HARDER!”
chigau (無)
11 December 2012 at 1:52 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I want my uniform.
and bonk bonk on all your computerspeak
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 2:05 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ chigau
{theophontes gives startled look over chigau’s shoulder, points}
Look!
{… scuttles off as chigau turns round}
opposablethumbs
11 December 2012 at 2:29 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thank you sgbm. You have succeeded in making it possible for even the terminally-computer-illiterate like me to get things back where they belong – my ftb is graced with hush once more, and possessed of the proper elementals, yea, even unto the last gumbie.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 2:42 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
chigau, the main sense of ‘bonk’ in the Anglosphere is not the same as in your neck of the woods.
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 3:01 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ SGBM / Tony
I didn’t even know what a shoop was ’til today. Now I can even shop a shoop evolution! (Picture or it didn’t happen.)
Ogvorbis: 300-year-old Woodcut
11 December 2012 at 7:06 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
theophontes:
That ain’t a shoop. That’s a shuck. Or a deep? A sheik?
chigau (無)
11 December 2012 at 8:40 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
John Morales #531
“bonk bonk on the head” is a Star Trek TOS reference.
Caine, Fleur du mal
11 December 2012 at 10:17 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Chigau:
Yes, it is, but ‘bonk = sexual intercourse’ is more prevalent these days.
chigau (無)
11 December 2012 at 10:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
We used to say “boink”.
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 10:48 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ Ogvobis
No, that is a picture of the midpoint of the evolutionary process. Don’t you ever listen to Mr Kenneth Ham? :
Duck —(evolves to)—>shoop => (implies) intermediary animal (shuck/doop/shoopaduck)
(I have offered to sell the image to the Templeton Foundation. Hold thumbs.)
@ AR
Fellini was most prescient. How could he imagine something so close to the Thunderdome?
Satyricon
theophontes (坏蛋)
11 December 2012 at 10:56 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
PS:
[Fellini] If we can find his lovechild with Alejandro Jodorowsky, we are onto a winner.
Linky:
Holy Mountain
theoblivionmachine
11 December 2012 at 12:35 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Ahem, random interjection from my feeds, which gives ‘coathanger-lobby’ a little something… extra.
No idea if I want to laugh or cry, but I’ll see after picking my jaw up.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/12/07/worst-marketing-decision-ever-drycleaner-puts-pro-life-message-on-their-hangers
Beatrice
11 December 2012 at 12:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
theoblivionmachine,
Those people have no shame.
Caine, Fleur du mal
11 December 2012 at 1:33 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
theoblivionmachine:
*speechless*
Janine: Hallucinating Liar
11 December 2012 at 1:49 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Just reading the link floors me.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
11 December 2012 at 2:14 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Oggie:
I like ‘shuck’.
****
Theophontes:
Shoop is the newly invented (per Nepenthe) singular form of sheep.
Nepenthe
11 December 2012 at 2:21 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I’m partial to shoopaduck myself. Shuck is already taken, you see.
cm's changeable moniker
11 December 2012 at 3:11 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Speaking of ducks, guess what I saw today?
A fifty-foot-high rubber duck. Floating down the Thames.
(I couldn’t tell if it had hooves or webbed feet underneath.)
*crosses fingers and hopes that preview’s not accurate*
Rodney Nelson
11 December 2012 at 4:27 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
SGBM, thank you for sorting out the killfile. It now works for me.
Ichthyic
11 December 2012 at 4:56 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
anyone who wants to have some fun dogpiling on Paul Nelson, or maybe wanted to ask him whether he will ever answer what “ontogenetic depth” means, he’s currently moving goalposts and dissembling over at Jerry’s blog:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-marshall-mcluhan-moment-with-creationist-paul-nelson/
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
11 December 2012 at 5:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
::shoopaduck::
Tee hee. Sounds like some kinda dance move. Distant cousin to the cupid shuffle.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 5:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Tony, what I know about dance moves I could write in a large font on my pinkie nail, so I guess you’re speaking from a position of privilege.
(But then, I have the privilege of not knowing about dance moves! ;) )
–
Yeah, I’m snarking about the overloading of the concept of privilege.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 6:01 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
John, you’re a dishonest shit.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 6:11 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ, you don’t think I’m snarking about what I claimed I was snarking?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 6:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I think that, as you have in the past, you are snarking about privilege in which there is no such overloading, e.g. the basic concepts of straight privilege, white privilege, male privilege, class privilege.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 6:27 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Moreover, I would like to inform you that, whatever its unstated referent, your joke is so fucking stale that it’s the sort of thing regarded as the height of wit in the Pit, where Stefanelli is getting praised for his new catchphrase: “white cock of authority”.
I hope you aspire to better.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 6:28 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ, ah, you consider that I’m dishonest because though I wrote that it was about the misuse of the concept of social privilege (i.e. overloading the term) you think that it was really about the actual concept itself.
(But do you at least agree that it’s silly for me to claim I’m privileged by not knowing about dance moves?)
SC (Salty Current), OM
11 December 2012 at 6:37 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Whose overloading, specifically? Who’s the target of your snark?
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 6:37 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ:
I hereby state it: the piece addressing ‘literacy privilege’ recently referenced by rq in the Lounge.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 6:38 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
SC, such synchronicity!
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 6:42 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I’m familiar with your oeuvre, John. So I read you as charitably as I read StevoR re daisy cutters. Surely you will not deny that you have at times portrayed this usage of the term as a misuse of the very word privilege.
See my #553.
It appears to be a shorthand for a particular manifestation of privileges: economic class, lack of disability, and the intersection of the two. You are welcome to speak more generally of those privileges if you prefer, but you’d be a fool to deny that the term’s referent is indeed a subset of social privilege.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 6:56 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ:
‘Yes’ would have been shorter and much more direct.
1. Functional illiteracy may be due to social inequality or to personal incapacity — but it may also be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness.
2. The idea that if I have some attribute or competence that another doesn’t means I’m privileged in that regard is a semantic conflation of the sociological usage of ‘privilege’ with its ordinary one.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 7:16 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Except for individuals who engage in code switching, that’s pretty fucking unlikely; but even if it were true, it would not take away the concept’s usefulness for talking about unearned advantages in literacy due to disability or economic class.
Therefore, granting your pretty fucking unlikely premise for the sake of argument, the best you could do with it is still to say that literacy privilege does exist.
This isn’t simply about an attribute or competence, but whether such are apportioned fairly. When you’re confused, like you apparently are right now, try substituting “unearned advantage” for “privilege”. Some attributes do not lead to society conferring upon someone an unearned advantage. Some do. The latter is what’s under discussion here.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 7:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ:
Heh. If it’s unlikely that it may happen, it is possible and therefore can happen; the premise itself is can’t both be unlikely and true.
(Tell me more about how disability provides unearned advantages)
Mmmhmm.
Let me try that: “… the best you could do with it is still to say that literacy
privilegeunearned advantage does exist.”You think I am confused? Heh.
(What I actually wrote is tantamount to claiming that not all literacy is due to unearned advantage, and so referring to literate people as ‘privileged’ by their literacy is unwarranted unless one overloads the term)
Caine, Fleur du mal
11 December 2012 at 7:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Just finished watching Sound of Noise. Very enjoyable.
consciousness razor
11 December 2012 at 7:48 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
You mean “disadvantages”?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 7:57 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
If it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow, which it is, it is possible that the sun will explode tomorrow. And it is still possible to meaningfully posit what would happen if the sun did explode tomorrow — and yet it is still unlikely.
It is unlikely to be true in any randomly selected case, and unlikely to be worth talking about.
An advantage is a difference — though the advantage does not accrue to the person who has the disability. (This tiresome nitpicking against the likely intended meaning of a statement, it does make me think less of you.)
Try it using common sense, and you’ll understand that the substitution will sometimes works best like a circumfix:
“… the best you could do with it is still to say that unearned literacy advantage does exist.”
No, I suspect you’re dishonestly trolling. I said apparently confused.
I don’t know that it matters what it’s due to. It frequently constitutes an unearned advantage, and then is privilege.
And here is a non sequitur. They would certainly be privileged relative to those whose disadvantage is unearned.
Class privilege, for instance, exists even still if somewhere one person is poor entirely due to laziness.
cm's changeable moniker
11 December 2012 at 8:05 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Wait, what now? I’ve been reading Chekhov for nothing?
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 8:35 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ:
Precisely, therefore the proposition that it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow is not an unlikely proposition, unless one thinks that it’s unlikely that it’s unlikely that the sun will explode tomorrow.
</Captain Obvious>
Again: the proposition that something is unlikely to be true is true if that something is indeed unlikely to be true, and if the proposition is true, it cannot be unlikely.
1. But a difference is not necessarily an advantage.
2. My ‘nitpicking’ consisted in addressing that which you wrote rather than what I know you intended to express.
(You do realise I could not pick a nit that wasn’t there, right?)
3. Your estimation of those who pick nits is duly noted.
Wait, now I am confused.
(I’m apparently confused, but you don’t think I’m confused, so therefore I am confused when I ask you whether you think I am confused?)
Literacy is frequently not something that is earned?
(I wish I hadn’t had to laboriously learn it!)
Right. It does not follow that not every case of being literate constitutes a privileged status when compared to not being literate, because “frequently constitutes an unearned advantage”.
(I find your logic peccable)
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 8:38 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
[memo to self: preview before posting]
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
11 December 2012 at 9:07 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Now, please go back and quote something from the discussion about privilege which you think parallels this.
What was said to be unlikely to be true in any randomly selected case, and unlikely to be worth talking about, is your claim that “functional illiteracy may be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness.
This is irrelevant to what was said. You’re being stupid now.
What I wrote was not wrong. If it was also not misleading — and it evidently wasn’t misleading to you — then your nitpicking is not helpful.
Here is probable dishonesty. You should have noticed the qualifier: “nitpicking against the likely intended meaning of a statement”.
Right. I am relying on prior information about you which is not apparent to everyone in this thread.
No, what I said you were apparently confused about is whether an attribute itself constitutes privilege.
The advantages that accrue to a person due to literacy, relative to many people who lack such literacy, are what are frequently unearned.
Probable dishonesty again from you; the word “unearned” immediately preceded “advantage” and was thus obviously modifying it. Yet you pretend otherwise.
You are a dishonest shit. It is unfortunate. You can and should do better.
Probable dishonesty from you. What I said was a non sequitur was that “so referring to literate people as ‘privileged’ by their literacy is unwarranted unless one overloads the term.”
Class privilege, for instance, exists even still if somewhere one person is poor entirely due to laziness.
What this means is that someone could, theoretically, have more wealth than another person in a way that does not constitute an unearned advantage; but even so, it is still meaningful to speak of class privilege.
Or, regarding literacy privilege, as I already said: it would not take away the concept’s usefulness for talking about unearned advantages in literacy due to disability or economic class.
At this point I would like to invite you to talk more about the original issue — so that one of us stands a likely chance of learning something about it — and less about your beloved recursions and subtle inversions of logic. If you want to play games with me, there are better ones.
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 10:00 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ:
You’re the one who introduced it, so how is it up to me to quote something from the discussion about privilege which I think parallels this? :)
But what you wrote was unlikely was that it was possible that this was a cause, though you later granted that very possibility.
You should have noted that I nitpicked about (not against) what you did write and not about what you meant to write.
No; since such advantages are predicated on having literacy and since literacy is earned (no-one is born with it or gets it without effort) it cannot be that the advantages it confers are unearned.
(Not that I dispute that some either have not had the opportunity (or lack the capacity) to acquire literacy — again, what I dispute is that one should assume achieving that status necessarily constitutes a form of privilege)
My probable dishonesty results from applying your advice: “When you’re confused, like you apparently are right now, try substituting “unearned advantage” for “privilege”” — and the subject is the concept of ‘literacy privilege’.
–
I’m all ears.
StevoR
11 December 2012 at 10:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Well I received this in my email inbox today :
***
From: (senders address not showiing
Date: Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:48 AM
Subject: go away stevor
To: (my e-mail address removed)
if u dont leave pharyngula, freethoughtblogs, scienceblogs, badastronomy,
skepchick, and all related sites, VOLUNTARILY and forever, then ur name,
(MY REAL NAME IN CAPITALS), will get publicly associated with a collection of all ur
worst sayings
this will have repercussions for you in the real world
now go away
dont wait for pz to ban you
***
Charming bit of cyberbulling that isn’t.
Hope whoever sent that bit of hatred and menacing is proud of themselves.
I’ve forwarded it on to PZ Myers and Chris Clarke and I hope they take the appropriate action.
Anyone want to fess up to this now and save them the trouble?
John Morales
11 December 2012 at 10:54 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
StevoR:
Yes, that’s nasty and I think every regular here would condemn that. I myself certainly do.
(Note that it’s pretty hard to actually conceal all the originator’s details (e.g. the message path) — don’t judge possibilities by your own competence)
–
I also think there’s no legal impediment to you posting that email’s message headers in full, and I’m willing to bet people here can and will help you trace its origin if you do.
StevoR
11 December 2012 at 11:18 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thanks John Morales : I’m not that great with computers myself so help would be appreciated. I’ve mentioned this here :
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-509815
Hope that’s okay -and am happy to post whatever info I can if that’s considered ok by folks here esp. PZ. I’ll see what people say on this first before I do so.
StevoR
11 December 2012 at 11:21 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
(Cross posted from the Stop now thread – hope that’s ok:)
For what its worth I’ll certainly admit that in the past I have said some things I now no longer believe and aren’t proud of and suspect this is probably true of just about everybody.
I’m the first person to admit that I’m fallible, sometimes mistaken and have said a few silly things and been carried away when drunk and overtired and will try to do better in future.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 12:02 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
That is completely out of line. Personal feelings aside, whoever sent you that threat is 100% in the wrong.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 12:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Oh? Really? That include the horrible shit you’ve been spewing the last week, claiming that brown people are still terribly evil, because terrorism? That bombs are still good? That genocide is still good? That we’re all ignorant shits because you don’t know jack shit about history? Science is only Western, remember?
You’ve been spraying your toxic brand of shit all over, Stevo. Don’t expect me to get all weepy because some unethical moron decided to send you a nasty e-mail. I don’t agree with that sort of shit in any way, however, that does not change who you are or what you espouse.
carlie
12 December 2012 at 12:07 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
SteveoR – posting those details might make the person immediately post your personal info in retaliation, which is what nobody would want to happen. Hopefully the PZ smackdown works.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 12:09 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
StevoR:
Talking about preemptively bombing Muslims or making racist statements =/= saying silly things. When you stop engaging in fearmongering (you live in Australia, you are in no immediate danger of being attacked by Islamic extremists), stop advocating for bombing entire regions in a “kill em before they kill us” strategy, and stop judging all Muslims by the actions of some extremists…then you may find people accepting an apology from you.
StevoR
12 December 2012 at 12:20 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@575. Caine, Fleur du mal :
Total strawperson and NOT what I’ve actually ever said.
I don’t have any problem with “brown people” – although, yes, I oppose terrorism and Jihadists. I’ve never said having brown skin is wrong or makes someone “evil” and never would.
Bombs are simply one type of a weapon humans have invented. Good? bad? A tool that different sides use to gain military victory or use for terrorism. I’d rather there were fewer bombings not more.
I’ve NEVER supported genocide and do NOT think it is ever good or called for.
I’m not claiming *everyone* here is ignorant and certainly not on everything – some people know a lot about some areas and not much about others and I’m ignorant when it comes to some things myself, but I did correct you on the historical fact that Sir Francis Bacon was the first person to invent / discover the scientific method as we know it today.
Never claimed other cultures and peoples haven’t contributed or come up with good things too and never said Science is *only* Western just that the West came up with it as we know it today.
Who I am? I’m a human being and I try to be a good one. I think I mostly succeed tho’ like us all I have my moments good and bad.
What I espouse : environmental action to fight Human Induced Rapid Global Overheating (HIRGO) as I prefer to more accurately term “global warming”, Feminism and treating all people equally, humanely and fairly regardless of skin colour or sexual orientation a secular society with religious dogmas kept away from power, having science better and more widely taught appreciated and understood and yes, what I see as the quintessential Western values of liberty, equality and opportunities to pursue happiness for all.
I think you have misread me and thus misunderstood and misjudged me badly.
Silentbob
12 December 2012 at 12:20 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Under the circumstances, since I may have inadvertently inspired this, I want to make it clear that I find this sort of blackmail absolutely despicable, and I don’t personally have any problem with StevoR continuing to post on this blog, or any other.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 1:12 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
StevoR:
STOP.
Just stop.
You keep denying and people keep quoting you. When are you going to be honest and fucking own what you have said?
No, the words ‘I advocate genocide’ do not seem to have been uttered by you, but the preemptive bombing practices you advocate would have that as a result.
The racism you’ve displayed is evident to anyone who realizes that Muslim identity is tied into their beliefs. When you question why someone would affiliate with Muslims, YOU ARE MAKING RACIST STATEMENTS.
You fail to acknowlege the way words are used in the real world. Get these damn dictionary definitions out of your head!
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 1:18 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
While you’re at it, quit whining about how mean the Thunderdome is if you’re going to keep coming here whining. God you are a broken fucking racist record. You have not shown any consistent change of heart. You have claimed the drunk defense for some of your words. Sorry, as a bartender, I have plenty of experience dealing with drunk people. You did not say anything you didn’t mean. Own up to what you have said. That-not whining about the meanies here-will lead you down the path you THINK you have already completed.
LykeX
12 December 2012 at 1:39 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Neatly ignoring all the work that went before that, much of which was done by Muslims.
If you’re trying to illustrate how reasonable you are, this might not be the best example to pick.
Unless you’re being incredibly narrow in your definition of science “as we know it today”, you’re just plain wrong:
http://explorable.com/history-of-the-scientific-method.html
Hypothesis testing, controlled experiementation, replication and peer review. Sounds a lot like science “as we know it today”, no?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 1:41 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Well, I proposed it as a parallel to your notion that “functional illiteracy … may also be due to a wilful lack of interest, lazyness or mere contrariness”. Illiteracy is unlikely to be due to such. That was the parallel.
I didn’t see anyone introduce any other parallel with anything like “‘illiteracy is unlikely to be due to such’ is an unlikely proposition.” You got weirdly recursive there for no apparent reason. I’ll try to ignore it, since you won’t explain its relevance.
What the fuck? I didn’t “later” grant anything. You are full of shit. Just plain dishonest.
What I wrote was not wrong. If it was also not misleading — and it evidently wasn’t misleading to you — then your nitpicking is not helpful. Shithead.
This part is false. Someone who is paid more for their literacy, relative to someone whose literacy is hampered by disability, did not earn the pay differential. It exists because the other person is unfairly disadvantaged.
It doesn’t necessarily. In a world where no one is unfairly disadvantaged from achieving that status, it would not constitute privilege.
Your probable dishonesty probably results from fucking around carelessly. It should be evident that literacy itself is not the same as the advantages it confers. “Unearned” was a qualifier on “advantages”, not on “literacy”.
Chess: play by forum? I’m not very good at it, but I’d gladly trade it for this conversation.
+++++
StevoR,
In this particular case, you’ve been treated unfairly. I’m sorry to hear about it. I hope this threat is not too stressful for you. Have some tea.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 1:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I hope that didn’t come off as snarky. I meant, like, do something nice for yourself to take the stress off. That’s all.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 2:50 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
consciousness razor (on this thread),
Yeah, PZ still needs to get around to that. This might be one of those things he mentioned where the CSS is redundant and confusing? I don’t know what it looks like from his end.
Secret Comic Sans will do it with <q cite=creationist>, but of course the person you’re quoting is unlikely to see it.
StevoR
12 December 2012 at 6:45 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@577.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
I wish that were true but see :
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/police-probe-links-to-islamic-centre-after-melbourne-terror-raids/story-e6frg6nf-1226473011258
&
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/the-scourge-of-muslim-terror-is-growing-with-the-rise-in-followers/story-fn56avn8-1226475172746
&
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s3100693.htm
Now, okay, its unlikely that I’ll be killed by Jihadists but it certainly isn’t impossible and nowhere onEarth is immune from their threat. The thing about terrorism is you never know where and when it will strike and it generally targets civilians in cowardly unforeseen attacks.
I don’t think that’s what I’m doing. I don’t advocate that.
Alright there might’ve been one night was I was really pissed (in emotional and alcoholic senses of the word) and went too far and I’ve already said that I was wrong about that and regret saying that and apologised for it.
I do think people have really jumped to conclusions on me here without actually understanding what I’ve actually been arguing – and, okay, maybe I could’ve been clearer, but I’ve tried to be.
StevoR
12 December 2012 at 6:51 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@582. LykeX : Okay, that stuff on Ibn al-Haytham coming up with the scientific method is new to me.
I did know – and am willing to acknowledge that the Arabs kept a lot of the Greek knowledge alive during the dark ages and contributed a bit in some areas themselves such as Algebra.
Similar to the modern scientific method is not of course identical but certainly happy to acknowledge the Islamic world made some contributions to modern science and had some great scholars and thinkers at the time.
StevoR
12 December 2012 at 7:00 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
The second link in # 586 is leading to a paywall now? Damn, wasn’t supposed to do that. Oh well see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Australia#Militant_Islamist_Incidents
instead which has the wiki-basics.
vaiyt
12 December 2012 at 7:54 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
From where does that follow that we should go to the Jihadists’ countries and kill their people? Don’t dodge the fucking question, shithead bigot. Own your shit.
consciousness razor
12 December 2012 at 8:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
You get that this means that saying X is not ‘saying silly things,’ yes?
Stop there. Don’t just latch onto the description of “fearmongering” or the danger you think you’re in as an Australian. Don’t cite articles.
That first statement quoted above is true. That sort of thing — even if you never said it or if it isn’t what you think now — is not merely saying “a few silly things.” It’s about as far from silly as I can imagine.
Do you want us to think you don’t believe those things anymore (or never really said them or didn’t mean it that way)? Or do you want us to think you believe right now that bigotry and warmongering, would just be “silliness,” if you had really said/meant them*?
*Which you could then go on to deny, like the dissembling, bigoted liar you are.
If I’m not mistaken, you’ve said similar things in the past; this is because you really are a bigoted warmonger who doesn’t give a shit about these people, even though you may retract, piece by piece, specific positions that are problematic (while leaving the basic foundation of bigotry). So the repetition leads me to think you really do think that. But if you don’t/won’t acknowledge how serious these issues are, don’t even bother with your pretend apologies. They don’t count for shit.
theophontes (坏蛋)
12 December 2012 at 9:16 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
[terrorism]
OK, let us just slow the fuck down for a bit and go online:
Linky:
Daily Beast
AJ Milne
12 December 2012 at 10:11 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thunderrupt:
Kathleen Hanna (Bikini Kill, etc.) was on CBC’s Q just now. Several aspects of the interview struck me as interesting to the online/Gnu scene, etc. Especially a bit where she’s talking about guys who came to the shows, paid the $5 or whatever apparently just to throw a bottle at them, and this line about how the sexism in the punk movement was very definitely there, and it was like this previously unmentionable pimple they were popping just by being there.
I was de-networked at the time (and have to disappear again like immediately) but a lot of their stuff shows up downloadable within a day or so… Show’s site is here.
thunk, cold air advection
12 December 2012 at 11:45 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Yeah, StevoR, let’s talk history.
If you knew anything about it, you’d realize that Europe was very much peripheral to the state of global affairs, constantly fighting itself, and just borrowing other technologies from the Islamic and East Asian worlds. The renaissance was all about “Ooh, the Muslims have found culture and Aristotle etc, let’s have some!” In the 1600s, China had an advanced market economy; earlier, they built the Grand Canal to foster widespread trade, the Great Wall, Zheng He’s voyages (which might have squished European colonialism had he not been stopped early), and the Monsoon Marketplace in which he had traded, let alone the adoption of eastern clothes producing a massive trade deficit in Europe.
Honestly, the only reason we’re still talking about Europe in such terms is luck and a very slight military development advantage.
Amphiox
12 December 2012 at 12:10 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Regarding the “proposition that the sun will explode tomorrow”;
The sun WILL explode tomorrow. It will explode today. In fact it is exploding right now. Has been exploding for 4.5 billion years.
If it stopped exploding, when it stops exploding, it will collapse under its own gravity into a white dwarf star. For the duration of its main sequence life the sun and all other stars explode continuously with more or less just enough force to counterbalance the inward crushing pull of their own gravity.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused)
12 December 2012 at 1:21 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Cyberbulling.
-
Nowhere on Earth is immune from threat. Period. Nutjobs are mobile. Horses cheat.
-
Beatrice
12 December 2012 at 1:28 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thanks for the hushfile again, SGBM. It makes hanging around here so much more pleasant.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 2:04 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
At PharynguWiki ( http://tinyurl.com/f76cy9r ) there are now scripts which change the default tab in the right sidebar — so for instance you can make FTB Recent your default, or Comments and FTB Recent.
Inspired by requests by Crip Dyke, SC, Pteryxx and brucegee1962, so I’m mentioning them in the hope that they’ll notice and find what they’re looking for.
By the way, you can get (imho) better results by using NoScript and telling it to forbid FtB from running its own scripts. This makes both FTB Active and FTB Recent appear at once, one below the other. (NoScript does not override Greasemonkey, so you’ll still have hushfile.)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 2:24 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I’m glad to help, but it’s no big deal. (Because honestly, if the site ever changes so much that fixing the hushfile becomes a big deal, I’ll probably quit updating it. :)
*waves* to all the other people who’ve been so kind as to thank me. You can thank SQB too, as the current version has not diverged much from his. And Daniel Martin, the original author, might appreciate a kind word at [email protected]
AJ Milne
12 December 2012 at 2:29 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
The Kathleen Hanna thing is up now. Audio popup available through here.
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!
12 December 2012 at 2:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ, could you advise me? I cannot persuade Chrome to install the extensions.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 3:01 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Esteleth,
I don’t use Chrome, so I can’t provide detailed help, but Xanthë got killfile working with a Chrome extension called Tampermonkey.
I would try that first, without adding anything — if it doesn’t work on its own, someone on the wiki’s Talk:Greasemonkey page many moons ago said this:
Esteleth has eaten ALL the gingerbread! Suck it!
12 December 2012 at 3:03 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Ok, thanks ॐ. I’ll talk to Xanthë.
*googles “Tampermonkey”*
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 3:12 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Is it possible for a person to disrupt wireless units and just wireless units? Because I had the 5th frigging unit die on me last night. Just now got the new one up and running. *sigh*
Ogvorbis: Exhausted and broken
12 December 2012 at 3:38 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Two words explain it all: Quantum Horses. Yup.
The last time I put in a wireless router, it took me three tries. Not three tries with the software, three routers. Luckily no problem returning/trading them in at the store. I blamed the Quantum Horses then. Same thing for you, Caine.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
12 December 2012 at 3:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Like a wireless internet device? I dunno, probably, but typically a cracker in your neighborhood wants to share your internet connection, not break it.
The above is true. Now I talk out my ass: for all I know, there might be interference on the wireless channel you’re using, and for all I know, this might somehow damage your equipment. (Is this nonsense? I am not an electrical engineer.) Most wireless networks run on channel 6 by default. Maybe try switching to channel 1 or 11.
nms
12 December 2012 at 3:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
For anything that breaks so consistently, the problem might be what you’re plugging it into.
Anthony K
12 December 2012 at 4:04 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Hoo-boy, have I been there. Yowch!
So, whatcha all talkin’ about?
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 4:06 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Ogvorbis:
And here I thought it was the Quantumn Tomatoes.
SG:
Yeah. The one that died last night was a Verizon jetpack. Before that, 4 Verizon mifi things died mysteriously and prematurely. I live in a town of 78. I know every house that has wireless and those people know if they even think about piggybacking on my connection, theirs will be terminated with extreme ruthlessness.
I’m willing to entertain any theory, wacky or otherwise. I can barely keep one of these things functioning for 6 months.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 4:08 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
nms:
Happens no matter where I plug the damn thing in.
cm's changeable moniker
12 December 2012 at 6:19 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Caine, do you still have the busted ones? If you take them apart, they’ll usually have a couple of 3/4″ tall capacitors on the circuit board. Have their tops popped outwards? (So they’re convex rather than flat with three impressed lines on them.) My Linksys router blew up like that during a thunderstorm. If so, a power conditioning strip might help. Unplugging during storms is probably also sensible.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 6:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
cm:
No, I don’t. We put the extended protection on them, so the old ones get sent back when we get a new one. Everything in this house is on a power strip, but as for storms – not one of them died during bad weather.
keresthanatos
12 December 2012 at 6:38 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Try getting a UPS (not SPS) for sensitive devices.
If that doesn’t help, start thinking about other rf devices (microwave, ham broadcast, radio stations, industrial process, etc.).
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 6:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Keresthanatos:
Hmmm. The microwave is a bloody long way from my studio, where the unit is (big old house), as for industry…that’s a huge no. We live serious rural, in a town of 78. We have churches, a saloon and a post office.
I don’t know about ham radio. We are lucky we get any sort of connection, though. Without the signal booster, you can connect to the net, but that’s all. Can’t surf, as a page won’t load without the booster.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 6:48 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I will look into a UPS for sensitive devices – thanks for that. I am so tired of replacing these damn things.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused)
12 December 2012 at 7:19 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
But, Caine—Quantum is everywhere. It’s in the rules.
-
John Morales
12 December 2012 at 7:22 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
cicely,
It simultaneously is and it isn’t.
(Chunky!)
keresthanatos
12 December 2012 at 7:27 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Are you on a 50hz or 60hz AC system? Do you have a solar or alt. energy system that has an inverter? This includes any battery backup systems that you have pluged into your household power system.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 7:33 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Keresthanos:
60hz.
Nope.
Cicely:
Yes, but why does it have such an appetite for my wireless?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 7:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Quantum rats.
Quantum penis.
Quantum cephalopods.
Yup, quantum goes with everything!
keresthanatos
12 December 2012 at 7:53 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Do light bulbs have a short life in your house?
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 7:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Keresthanatos:
Nope, they do great.
keresthanatos
12 December 2012 at 7:59 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
damn, so much for grounding problems. are you at the end of a power line (as the house where the power line ends ?
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 8:12 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Keresthanatos:
Another no, I’m afraid.
theophontes (坏蛋)
12 December 2012 at 9:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ cicely
Thank goodness I did not make it to the race track yesterday!
@ Caine
Apropos Keresthanatos comments, it might indeed be something like “brown power” that can cause problems like that. In which case an UPS would be the way to go.
And cm’s “capacitors”. These are miserable little fuckers. Forever blowing up. And with a particular reason: Many are made in China with incomplete stolen specifications. The result is that they produce H2 and explode. Loudly even. The solution is to replace with Japanese (marked as such for this particular reason) capacitors. What might also happen, considering you are pretty rural, is that the whole batch they are replacing your devices from is FUBAR.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 9:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Theophontes:
This seems most likely, by far, seeing as no other electronic devices suffer the fate of the wireless units. Well, the new unit started life here today, so I suppose we’ll see just how long this one makes it.
Lofty
12 December 2012 at 10:07 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Caine, have you googled the item model numbers in question with the word “problems” added? A world of internet whinges may open up to you. (It’s what I do before bidding on electronic goodies on ebay) Some products are just crap.
theophontes (坏蛋)
12 December 2012 at 10:09 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Chinaoriginally Taiwan. They pop (heh) up in Chinese (mainland) products too.theophontes (坏蛋)
12 December 2012 at 10:16 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@ Caine
Brown power is nefarious. Tardigrade level nefarious. It can do really weird stuff to electric motors, electronics etc. I would not discount it completely.
Caine, Fleur du mal
12 December 2012 at 10:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Lofty:
No, because it wouldn’t do much good to read more whinging. Unfortunately, due to our location, we’re stuck with damn things.
Theophontes:
Oh, I know it is and it’s a known issue where we are, which is why the house is bristling with power strips, surge protection and the like. Back when we had the monster aquariums running, we had extremely expensive filters running and the like, so we took every possible measure to make sure things were protected. As I said, this isn’t happening with any other electronic device in the house. It’s only the Verizon wireless units.
John Morales
12 December 2012 at 11:20 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
[TW]
I put this here and not in the Lounge, because it’s depressing.
I am very grateful to Pharyngula for awakening my conciousness about some things, so that when I read stories such as this one I have a better perspective with which to understand their significance.
Man’s sexual abuse ‘kept in the family’
Koshka
12 December 2012 at 11:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Caine
I would suggest you are getting replacements from the same faulty batch. There is probably not much you can do except hope they run out out of the faulty batch ones. These things probably cost less than $5 each to make and the manufacturers will shop around to save every cent. This will include using inferior components.
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
12 December 2012 at 11:54 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
John:
I am glad you have been awoken to various social injustices. I also like seeing emotion from you. Sometimes your responses have a clinical detachment to them. Thats not always bad mind you. I just like seeing more of a balance (not that you owe such to me or anyone).
…
That story is horrific. That the mother kept quiet the whole time…^rage^. That the guy abused so many female family members…^unbridled anger^.
rorschach
13 December 2012 at 3:45 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
xhtml->extra->quote
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused)
13 December 2012 at 1:46 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
So, then: an unlimited license to molest female relatives, in trade for not causing “talk” (i.e., not “dragging the “family honor” through the mud”), would be my guess. I’m sure his victims thought it was an equitable trade.
</sarcasm>
-
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
13 December 2012 at 2:32 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
While digging up this link for bishoptakesknight — [In Brief] Do Feminists Care About Men’s Issues? (A handy list!) —
I started to read the comment section. It answered a question that had been unresolved for me for a while:
Is valeriekeefe just legitimately angry, or is she a malicious MRA troll?
Answer: troll.
Look at how she treats Miriam when Miriam is responding to another malicious MRA troll.
TonyJ
13 December 2012 at 2:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Test?
TonyJ
13 December 2012 at 2:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Can anyone see this post? I can’t.
Caine, Fleur du mal
13 December 2012 at 2:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
What was the consensus on butthurt? Gendered slur or not?
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused)
13 December 2012 at 3:30 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
My opinion? Not. Everyone has a butt; anyone’s butt may be hurt, whether as a result of teh secksing, or paddling, or otherwise.
-
Caine, Fleur du mal
13 December 2012 at 3:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Cicely, I agree that anyone may have a butt which smarts, however, it came to light on another thread that yes, it is often used as a homophobic slur, so it’s out. I have no wish to provide cover for such douchecakes.
cicely (Possibly Too-Easily Amused)
13 December 2012 at 4:00 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Ah. Okay, then.
-
consciousness razor
13 December 2012 at 5:13 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
For anyone interested, Sean Carroll finally wrote a little summary on his blog about his impression of the Moving Naturalism Forward workshop back in October, and put up all of the videos. (Looks like it’s about 15 hours or roughly 10 metric fucktons of arguing and philosophizing….)
StevoR
13 December 2012 at 9:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I’ve prepared a few replies for some folks here, can’t answer everyone but think these cover the main points and one’s I promised to answer, if others really want me to reply to their points please let me know.
@ John Morales – finally found your questions I think – these the ones? :
@388. John Morales : http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/29/thunderdome-10/comment-page-1/#comment-502331
I’m not sure, it depends on the exact situation and principles at the time. It is obviously best if wars can be avoided that they are avoided but when war has become inevitable sometimes, just occasionally pre-emptive strikes may be the best course of action.
Off the top of my head? No. I could look it up but guess you want me to guess? I know that Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation and that there are plenty of Muslims spread all around the world. It would depend on which nations exactly you consider to be the Middle East / South West Asia whether you include Pakistan, Afghanistan and Egypt in that or not. Maybe 50% or even 45% or so down to 30% if we’re really strict on which countries count? That in the right range / ballpark?
I don’t know. It didn’t happen and the Indonesians did eventually arrest most of the terrorists involved so with hindsight, no I guess not. At the time that option was never suggested by anyone that I recall and certainly not advocated by me then.
@ 345. Amphiox – a few comments below that one on a previous thunderdome.
What is this third way Amphiox and why do you think it hasn’t already been tried and failed?
@@153. Silentbob – 8th December 2012 at 4:48 am (UTC -6)
(1) I think you cherry-picked and that some of those out of context – for instance ignoring that I clearly stated I believed Obama was born in Hawaii – but I guess you did link to the original threads so okay.
(2) Would be correct there. My views have changed on some of those issues over time.
(3.) Having another username on another blog is no big secret. Messier Tidy Upper is a whimsical astronomical reference to the Messier catalogue of Deep Sky objects (galaxies, nebulae of various types, star clusters and a supernova remnant) which makes less sense to use on a non-astronomical blog. Here on FTB I am and always have been StevoR.
StevoR
13 December 2012 at 9:59 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I’ve been arguing here in self defence because I’ve been accused of racism and bigotry and I know that’s not true. Yes, I have my faults, I’m not neurotypical, its no big secret that I have a few mental abnormalities, my brain gets stuck in certain grooves and I’m somewhat of an alcoholic. (Trying to cut down lately and on the light beers mainly at the moment, FWIW.) That doesn’t necessarily make what I say wrong or have any relevance to my arguments here. Because I feel very strongly on some issues and think I’ve got a good case I’ll argue it like, I’d say, everyone else would.
A lot of people here have been wrongly claiming I’m all sorts of horrible things that I know I am not.
How do I prove that to you all and show I deserve another look and chance? What would y’all suggest?
I’m happy to promise not to mention anything to do with Muslims again here for an indefinite period of at least many months and I’m willing to ask PZ to put me on automoderation for a while if he’s willing to agree and folks think that will help? I really don’t want to be restricted to thunderdome since I’d rather comment anywhere else and I do want to make positive contributions here since I enjoy this blog and participating on it, mostly.
(Will cross post to the “Stop now” thread too if that’s alright, apologies if its not.)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
13 December 2012 at 10:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Well, you’re wrong about that. It’s not terribly surprising — a lot of racists don’t consciously know that they’re racists. But this, for instance,
is an extremely racist comment. Your opinions about African Americans are just plain racist, prima fasces.
Caine, Fleur du mal
13 December 2012 at 10:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
That would not mean you had changed your bigoted stance in regard to Muslims, StevoR. Do you really think we would all forget the evil shit you have said, the deep offense you have caused, if you simply stayed ‘off the subject’ for a few months?
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
13 December 2012 at 11:03 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
TonyJ,
I couldn’t earlier. Caine’s 643 was 641 for a while. So, for some reason, your comments were going either into moderation or the spam filter. I guess if I were you I would try commenting again now.
PZ Myers
14 December 2012 at 8:33 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Yeah, the spam filter was going nuts. I approved a giant backlog of about a hundred comments trying to clear it.
Amphiox
14 December 2012 at 12:04 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Great frakking gaseous gods, StevoR, do you EVEN REALIZE what a racist, bigoted statement this even is?
Here you are, presented with a series of alternative self-defence options, and your FIRST ASSUMPTION, your NULL HYPOTHESIS, your default position, the thing that you demand positive evidence to move you away from, is that only the genocidal and near genocidal options work, and that everything else does not?
You see, rational people, humane people, NON-RACIST, NON-BIGOTED people, DON’T DO IT THIS WAY. They do it the OPPOSITE WAY. Their null hypothesis is that the self-defence options that do NOT involve genocide or the risk of genocide are the ones that should be assumed to work first, tried first, and they demand positive evidence to DEMONSTRATE that these options do not work AND that escalating to genocidal and near-genocidal options actually would work, before advocating for them.
Flipping-Mohammed-kissing-Jesus-on-the-other-turned-cheek-while-Buddha-officiates-and-Tsukiyomi-delivers-Marduk’s-ring, if you observed Eta Carinae’s polar axis shifting towards earth, is your FIRST ASSUMPTION, YOUR NULL HYPOTHESIS, THE THING YOU DEFAULT TO BEFORE MORE EVIDENCE IS FORTHCOMING that the reason for this is hostile (jihadist sympathizing) aliens are deliberately doing it with intent to irradiate the solar system with a gamma ray burst???
You are doing the same thing here. It isn’t reasonable to even consider such a thing in astronomy. Why is it reasonable to consider such a thing here?
Amphiox
14 December 2012 at 12:18 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
It’s not like good intelligence and police work hasn’t stopped 51 terrorist plots since 9/11.
Or the Iron Dome system wasn’t successful in intercepting Hamas missiles.
Or that it is utterly unreasonable to at least wait for suspected terrorists to cross your borders and demonstrate at least the possibility of imminent hostile intent before blowing them away.
Or that Osama bin Laden wasn’t taken out in a targeted operation involving boots on the ground and visual confirmation such that his innocent neighbours weren’t vaporized by a misaimed missile and that the only civilians put directly in harms way were bin Laden’s own close associates.
But nooo, none of that is enough for StevoR. None of that “works”. It HAS to be invading someone else’s country, bulldozing someone else’s home, dropping bombs and missiles on sleeping children.
ChasCPeterson
14 December 2012 at 12:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
was he?
(if you click that link, ignore Betty Chestnut)
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
14 December 2012 at 3:18 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
PZ, or a monitor, the troll is back in the Shermer thread.
strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more
14 December 2012 at 4:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Thanks, Caine.
Caine, Fleur du mal
14 December 2012 at 5:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
SG, you’re welcome. I think I’m past overload on the level of stupid invading lately. So I’ll talk about something else.
Has anyone else seen the movie Tomboy? It received all these glowing reviews of how it was a wonderful, ‘feel good’ movie. I didn’t find it that way at all. I was shocked and upset by the mother’s reaction and consequent actions, I thought the ending was flat out bad and I wasn’t impressed by the constant attempt to stuff everyone into convenient ‘boy’ and ‘girl’ boxes.
Caine, Fleur du mal
14 December 2012 at 5:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I also got strong flashes of both homophobia and transphobia from Tomboy. Maybe it’s just me…
nms
14 December 2012 at 11:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Well, this is one of the more terrifying threads I’ve read here.
StevoR
14 December 2012 at 11:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment
@650. strange gods before me ॐ rational skeptic seeking truth for friendship, possibly more :
The quote there is NOT something I still believe or would say today.
@ 654. Amphiox :
Its NOT my first assumption and not my preference, I think you are addressing straw-me there not the real me and not my* actual arguments.
What is your suggested “third way” there exactly and do you really think it hasn’t been seriously tried?
@655. Amphiox :
Such things work sometimes in some situations to some extent. There are situations where those things do help and work and where they do work they are the best choice and my first preference.
However, there are other cases where they may or definitely do not work or are NOT applicable. In those cases more drastic measures may need to be reluctantly contemplated or used instead. I’m not saying they should be our first choice or used when more humane alternatives exist and if things do end in those situations I know we’re already in major trouble and awful situations but sometimes, sadly, that may just be the unfortunate reality.
++++++
* Well not outside of one or two drunken, overtired and emotional posts that I have repeatedly apologised for and said I was wrong to say.Have you never said things you’ve later regretted Amphiox?)
John Morales
15 December 2012 at 12:10 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Well, congratulations, StevoR.
Only took you two weeks to find the questions I posed you, though they immediately followed your own comment!
Not that I’m surprised that your belated responses are pathetically revealing, nor that you have failed to grasp their rhetorical intent (that you engage is unwarranted generalisations based on your ignorance).
Still, if you have some dim apprehension that muslim, jihadist, arab and middle-east are different sets, and that you may be imputing the characteristics of their intersection to their powerset (the fallacy of composition), you have made some progress.
(Well done!)
Ichthyic
15 December 2012 at 12:17 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
which of these do you currently feel correctly reflects your position:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/05/thunderdome-11/comment-page-1/#comment-507495
or, process of elimination, which no longer reflect your position, if that is easier.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 2:23 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Yeah, well, before I learned you said it, I thought it was something you wouldn’t say.
Thing about you, StevoR, is that you say astonishingly fucked up shit and then you wave it away as something you wouldn’t say anymore. But then you say more astonishingly fucked up shit.
I just don’t believe you. I think you would indeed claim that African Americans are not loyal to America. I am confident you’d say it when you’re drunk, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d say it when you’re sober, given a particular audience. So I’d like more than your assertion.
I might be able to believe you if you would explain what is wrong with the quote, and hypothetically what you would say to dissuade someone else who’s saying the same thing. You could add further credibility by explaining how you came to understand that you were wrong.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 2:40 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
My “I thought it was something you wouldn’t say” is about Obama, not African Americans per se, but likewise I didn’t think you’d say the things you later said about Obama. It’s all astonishingly fucked up. And I don’t understand how someone can honestly go from saying
to
John Morales
15 December 2012 at 2:52 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
ॐ, recalcitrant as he may be, I believe that StevoR’s desire to belong here is having an effect on his thinking.
A positive one.
(Even just mouthing what one considers progressive pabulum to appease others’ antipathy means one must process such)
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 3:08 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I believe that is possible, but I want explanations in order to differentiate changing from bullshitting. The first quote in my 666 temporally preceded the second. I want to know how he went from here to there and back again. And I want to know what he would say to someone he encounters today who he overhears saying that “hyphenated Americans” are not completely loyal to America.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 3:10 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I mean, for fuck’s sake, back in 2008 when he mouthed “but racist? Not exactly. More like anti-racist” and “Sheesh. Obama was 8 at the time and hardly knew the guy- then or later”, why didn’t that stick?
Ichthyic
15 December 2012 at 3:33 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
frankly, that disturbs me alongside the comments themselves.
What’s the name for someone that will say anything so they can feel they belong?
Tony ∞The Queer Shoop∞
15 December 2012 at 3:48 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
John Morales:
Dude, how well read are you?
Your vocabulary is second to none.
****
While I’m at it, SGBM, I admire your ability to argue effectively as well as how good (and quick) you are at providing links (seriously, your bookmark page must be huge).
Caine, Fleur du mal
15 December 2012 at 3:49 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
I simply don’t trust Stevo. I do believe his desire to stay here and to belong are sincere. However, his plea in that regard left me more wary than ever, because of his stated willingness to “stay off the subject for x amount of time.” To me, this points to a distinct lack of change in his thinking, meaning he’ll still hold the same repulsive views, he’ll just hide them from sight. That’s not better.
Stevo has deeply offended many (most) people here and we have already lost Ing because of him, which is a serious loss.
There’s also his stated drinking problem, which he seems to feel ought to absolve him to some degree or another. Plenty of people here have posted while drunk and that’s not generally any sort of issue, as they don’t say anything they wouldn’t normally say. Shorter version: In vino veritas.
I don’t have any sort of easy answer as to what it would take for me to accept StevoR here, even on a probationary period.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 3:52 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Honest to Karl, I have no bookmark page. Note the illustration: the drawer is in his head.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 3:54 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
! What? Seriously? I didn’t see this.
Caine, Fleur du mal
15 December 2012 at 3:57 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Yes, it took place in the ‘stop now’ thread – the one about the e-mail StevoR received.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 4:00 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
God damn fuck.
Ing, if you read this, I hope you take a break and come back. You are good people and I will miss you.
Ichthyic
15 December 2012 at 4:06 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
if you’re still looking for it, this is where Ing bailed:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-510010
Ichthyic
15 December 2012 at 4:20 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
…and again when nohellbelowus continued with its inanity:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/11/stop-now/comment-page-1/#comment-510264
has that one been tossed yet, ’cause I can’t recall ever seeing anything worth reading from it?
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 4:32 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Fucking goddamnit.
StevoR, I want you to apologize to Ing for all the shit you’ve said about his friends. Some of it was recent, too, a Thunderdome ago, I think. You goddamned fucking asshole. You called his friends jihadists just this month or last. Asshole. You are a stupid, malicious, hateful bigot, StevoR, and you are hurting people who don’t deserve it.
strange gods before me ॐ
15 December 2012 at 4:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/11/29/thunderdome-10/comment-page-1/#comment-502295
Shithead. Fuck you StevoR. You should fucking beg for Ing’s forgiveness. And don’t make some excuse for why you said it. No ifs ands or buts.
Beatrice
15 December 2012 at 5:10 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
Crap. I thought Ing was just leaving that thread.
PZ Myers
15 December 2012 at 10:47 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment
NEW THREAD.
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