Café Scientifique in Morris on Tuesday evening »« Grandpa Simpson lives!

Comments

  1. says

    You know… when I combine the reverb pedal with the delay pedal, it sounds like someone is playing guitar really loud at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and you’re sitting at the top of it. Just really glorious stuff, I totally need to get a serious recording studio built in the corner of my new office. All covered in bright-red Tolex. :)

    And my parents almost know how to work email. It is scary.

  2. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    On the topic of indie authors, I’ve read a lot of those lately. From giveaways and authors looking for honest reviews so my collection is pretty varied on genre. Usually, they are pretty good to me. Of course I’m a terrible writer so I don’t know if I’m such a great judge of writing ability. I review more for the enjoyment factor.

    If anyone is interested on specific recommendations or want to browse my selection, I can email you a link to my reviewing account. As long as you promise to be careful to keep my name here separate from my name there so there’s no trace between my accounts.

  3. says

    rq,

    NO! I’M HAVING A BEER OR 14 AND ENJOYING THE NIGHT!

    I’ve got 4 days to pack two rooms, I packed 5 rooms in the last three days. And really the living room is just electronics plus the TV stand. And my office is guitar and computer stuff. I’ve got this. Tomorrow I take apart the TV stand and pack everything but the TV, XBox, and DVR. Maybe if I’m smart I’ll move the computer to the living room and connect it to the TV, and pack the monitors and printer. I’m really close to the deadline, but I actually feel like I’m also close to done rather than putting off because it is too much to deal with.

    And I owe it to your folks in the Lounge. Thank you all so much, you’ve been a huge goddamned help.

  4. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Feel the love!

    Scott Lively, fine christian warrior who helped to instigate Uganda’s Kill The Queers bill, celebrates a building exploding. A building that contained a strip club.

    I wonder if Scott Lively would also have been celebrating if any strippers, club workers and audience members were killed.

    Is not the big sky daddy glorious?

  5. says

    The infuriating thing about 50 Shades is, if it had focused properly on what a creepy damaged character Christian was it would have been actually pretty hot fantasy for those of us with perverted tastes.

    By tortuously twisting “creepy and damaged” into “ZOMG so romantic and sweet” it managed to insult anyone with a functional idea of how relationships work AND be completely uninteresting from a kinky standpoint.

    Total incompetence.

  6. rq says

    Alright, Imrpobable Joe, I’ll let up, but only because I’m going to bed.
    It sounds like you’ve done a huge amount of work, and deserve a bit of a break.

    JAL
    I’m going to think about your offer, because I’m interested in good/interesting/entertaining reads. I’ll get back to you, and yes, if I accept, I promise to be careful.

    +++

    Good night to all!!

  7. rq says

    And yes, Joe, once again I spelt your ‘nym wrong. Sorry. :P Have another beer and you won’t notiec!

  8. says

    Threadrupt catching up.

    Life is shit right now, Ing family not doing well

    ************************

    I’m watching the Red Letter Media review

    Think I saw one review and didn’t get the appeal of the guy. Missing something?

    Yeah, I know that, but I don’t like using “ha ha it’s just fanfiction” as a derogatory factor since fanfics can actually be quite well written. It’s not all Mary Sue/Gary Stu crap.

    But yeah, it stinks that the author managed to publish a work of fanfiction as if it were original work.

    Star Wars is reworked from ideas for a Flash Gordon movie

    Batman especially early on was very close to a Shadow fan fiction/rip off

    Watchmen started out as a story for the Charlton Comic Characters DC had at the time recently bought

    Point is it is possible to salvage fan fic ideas into something workable. I think writers should actually be applauded for reworking previous ideas into final products.

  9. says

    Anyways, somebody/something knocked over my fucking trashcan. I’m planning on shooting someone/something if they fucking do it again. I’M SO TIRED OF LIVING IN THIS GODDAMNED SHITHOLE.

  10. says

    Sorry Ing, I hope the family is doing better soon.

    The Red Letter Media reviews I’m talking are the “Half in the Bag” reviews rather than the “Harry Plinkett” reviews, less slurring and serial killing, more straight-ahead reviewing. Not completely straight-ahead, though.

  11. says

    So where I’m living is a nice place generally but the rent is too damn high and asshole land lord provides no utilities or services. Bank is slowly being bled dry by this fucker. No formal lease either and last people to piss him off had their shit emptied out of the apartment and crushed with a backhoe. Looking for new ones has problem that renting gets to be like a poor tax and locks you in an area for a year. For people hoping to go back to grad school this is an issue. Mother wants to help as she feels she might need to move in with uncle whose cancer is taking a turn. Problem is mom has an issue that is either like or is hording…been trying to clean out area just for her for long time and it’s becoming a stress on us and on the marriage. Really would love to accept her help of renting to us because it gets her in healthier conditions and would be a good leg up, but every time we feel the plans are going no where and trying to get her to take steps to declutter feels like trying to chew through a brick wall. So yeah have no options and the one that exists seems to be Sisyphean.

  12. says

    Alethea,

    All of the shit is going on the back of a trailer towed by someone else who is NOT ME, so noise doesn’t matter. :) I might wrap the flatwear caddy in cardboard before packing, to avoid accidental poking on the unpacking.

    The bad news is the car I’m driving will have four cats and a dog in it. It is a 2001 Toyota Corolla. It is a 30 hour drive. I’m not sure where I’m even going to sleep.

  13. cicely says

    I grabbed an e-mail address for Ogvorbis from his blog and sent off a brief e-mail to him. I’ll let everyone know if I hear from him.

    ty, Caine.

    Joe – window got stuck in the down position. :(

    Well, shit. I hate it when that happens.


    Ing, sorry to hear that your family isn’t doing well.
    *appropriate beverages*

    I agree that life is shit right now. I’m hard-pressed to remember a less pleasant Thanksgiving holiday-time since ‘way back in the mid ’80s…and that involved a new baby (Son!) and no jobs.

    I’M SO TIRED OF LIVING IN THIS GODDAMNED SHITHOLE.

    But soon you can moon them as you drive away FOR THE LAST TIME EVER. Shooting someone now would only prolong your stay. “Nil carborundum….”
    -

  14. says

    Caine,

    You need carriers, though. The animals have to be in a carrier if you leave the room.

    Since I only plan on staying long enough to sleep and shower before getting back on the road, that shouldn’t be a problem. :) I’m not exactly going to power through all 30 hours, but I’m not bullshitting and lollygagging either.

    Funny story. It took my family 15 hours to drive from Northwestern NC to Orlando, Florida. I was in the car, and I did most of the nightime driving including being stuck in a traffic jam for almost 2 hours and having to take the long way around, and then got in the back and went to sleep. When I stopped driving we were just north of the Florida border. When I woke up three hours later, we were just south of the Florida border, and we were parked in a Cracker Barrel parking lot, where my idiot family were having a sit-down breakfast and then wandering around the FUCKING GIFT SHOP! Then we drove through every shit town in NE Florida because the idiot family in the other car thought that would be the best way to go while drinking heavily and smoking pot.

    I drove back home with just me and my older brother in the car on the way back, and it took us 7 hours and change even though I had to drive through a hurricane.

  15. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    So nice to see that heddle is still an idiot.

    Oh, thanks to everyone for validating how cool and smart I am.

    (Sorry. I am commenting about something happening at an other blog.)

  16. Suido says

    PZ, I’m worried for your health. That’s a gorilla, and you say ‘Ook’? The Librarian might just decide you’ve got a serious case of Too Many Arms.

  17. jose says

    I’m growing increasingly impatient and grumpy about the carefree use of quotation marks and italics theologians and christians in general use to excuse themselves when you argue the points, to claim that they didn’t mean what they meant because it’s in italics, so the word really aims to something deeper so what he wrote is not really what he’s saying. Gah.

  18. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    The word of god is literal unless it is meant to be metaphorical.

    The word of god is metaphorical unless it is meant to be literal.

    Jose, it is your own damn fault that you cannot understand that.

  19. says

    jose,

    Don’t forget that when no one can make sense of the stupidity of religion, it is because the perfect god made us too imperfect to understand… sort of like claiming that you’re the perfect furniture builder and all your tables and chairs wobble on mismatched legs. THE LEGS HAVE FREE WILL!

  20. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Trying to stay in the kind of sailing theme I am now in, I wanted to play Come Sail Away(Yes. That song.) as covered by No Empathy. Could not find a playable version. So I give you The Night Chicago Died.(Yes. That song.)

  21. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald-NRBQ

    Dang, that’s right. Happened about this time of the year. I was in Dah YooPee then. Big news, needless to say. *Has the Pullet Patrol™ lower flag to half mast*

  22. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Nerd, did you watch the video?

    No, I didn’t.
    *looks are video*
    Too much laughing for my taste. Gordon Lightfoot recorded had an appropriately solemn ballad.

    Wiki Article.

    The Cousteau team later found the wreck at the bottom of Lake Superior broken in two. The theory is that high waves built with the trailing winds and the narrowing channel, with a long distance between them, so that the bow and stern were supported, causing the middle to sag and break. Artist rendering of the wreck.

  23. ImaginesABeach says

    Dalillama – please tell L that the person who bought 2 hats recently will not be able to send pictures, because the hats are for my GirlChild, however we will check back frequently for more hats.

  24. ImaginesABeach says

    Caine – thank you for the latest pictures of Zoe. GirlChild and I check Rattitude regularly, and were starting to worry about her.

  25. mildlymagnificent says

    Joe, just a reminder about something you haven’t mentioned.

    Make sure you’ve left enough space in your car for the mop, vacuum cleaner and other clean-up-after-the-removalists-expose-marks-&-dust-make-their-own-mess and other ‘final moment’, before I go, cleaning tasks.

    It’s one thing to remember you have to do it. It’s another to have the car space for that stuff or be prepared to give it away.

  26. says

    mildlymagnificent,

    Good call… except that I’m already moving everything and cleaning under it. :) I’ve picked two spaces, one upstairs and one downstairs, where I’m staging everything. Those were the very first spaces I cleaned, and I’ve been shifting/lifting/moving and cleaning under and behind as I go. :)

  27. says

    ImaginesABeach:

    Caine – thank you for the latest pictures of Zoe. GirlChild and I check Rattitude regularly, and were starting to worry about her.

    You’re welcome. Zoe is doing great and now that she’s 5 months old, we’re pretty sure she is permanently out of the woods in regard to the megacolon. Our vet did check her colon prior to her spaying and was astounded – it’s perfectly normal. Apparently, this never happens. We’re at a loss to explain it, but are very happy to have her with us.

    She’s a sweet girl, fast as greased lightning, a calm shoulder rider and quite the ferocious fighter.

  28. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Nerd, still not as many people who were killed when the SS Eastland capsized on July 24, 1915 on the Chicago River.

    I am still amazed at how unknown this disaster is.

  29. carlie says

    I’m sorry, Ing. I hope you can figure something out.

    Joe – go back and find the proper kind of motel (Red Roof or wherever that allows pets) between 1-2 hours closer than the ones you’ve picked, too. That way if you end up behind or needing to sleep more, you won’t panic about not being able to make the next stop on time.

  30. says

    carlie,

    Thanks. The good news is that I’m driving on I-40 the whole way, and that’s such a major highway that I shouldn’t have a problem finding a place to stay, and I won’t drive too far.

  31. says

    To expand:

    I plan on making at least three stops, maybe four. Maybe five. I’m not going to drive more than 7-9 hours without getting my ass into a hotel room. Regular stops to walk the dog and check the cats for poop/pee in their crates.

  32. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Nerd, still not as many people who were killed when the SS Eastland capsized on July 24, 1915 on the Chicago River.

    You are right. I see that memorialized on TV and in the Trib every so often.

  33. magistramarla says

    Joe,
    We’ve made cross-country trips with pets. LaQuinta motels are wonderful about pets and they don’t charge extra for them, either. Petsmart has disposable litter boxes, which are quite helpful, too. We also carry a collapsible crate to put the cats into at the motel. Quite handy for those times that we needed to clean their carriers.
    We also made sure that we got them chipped and that they wore tags on their collars with ID, just in case.
    Good luck on your trip!
    We’ll be moving 1700 miles next spring with two cats and a German Shepherd.

  34. says

    They’re scheduling my appointments at times when I have classes, which means they’re either not reading the schedules I gave them, or I accidentally mislabeled my spring and fall schedules.

    And I might have missed a test on tuesday, because I’m so frazzled I’m losing track of scheduling and which tests got postponed and which didn’t.

    And I’m exhausted. So bone-deep exhausted, it’s making me cry. And that’s aside from the pain everywhere.

    Everything just sucks.

  35. says

    Jadehawk,

    I’m sorry you’re getting jerked around, and I wish I knew something I could say or do to help. You have my sympathy, and any support that I can give under the circumstances.

  36. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Jadehawk:
    I’m sorry things are going crappy for you. I wish I had more to offer than my sympathies.

    ****
    Ignorant [and possibly too personal a question, apologies if it is] question here (thanks to a comment from GILIELL over at Lousy Canuck):
    I know nothing about the process of getting an abortion. Is it uncomfortable? Painful? Somewhere in between?

  37. says

    Ing, Jadehawk: hugz and/or beverages, if youse wantz ‘em. [/Philly chick.]

    Improbable Joe: I cannot even imagine traveling that far with my one cat, let alone four. I’m pretty sure one of us would not survive the trip. I hope you and your menagerie have a safe journey and find much happiness at your destination.

    I haz fucking shingles. Also: antiviral medz are nauseating. My doc said “You know you’re sick, right? Act like it. Rest, drink water, blah blah blah.” BUT I FEEL FINE! (Okay, except for this excruciatingly painful festering rash…) She just glared at me. #wtf.

  38. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Jadehawk, I am sorry to hear that you are in pain and in difficulties. *hug*

    —–

    Somebody up there mentioned ManyBooks.net as a source for free book files. That site has the most different file types that I have seen, and an easy download method. It has one of my favorites, The Outlaw of Torn, by Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author of the Tarzan books. It’s about a fictitious outlaw in 13th century England, but it isn’t Robin Hood.

    I like that ManyBooks gives text files with no formatting at all. That makes them easy to read in a text window, no matter how wide or narrow. (If you want to waste time on your work computer, reading a text book in a small window is hardly noticeable and totally unexpected.)

    —-

    For your home laptop, rigging an additional monitor is easy and very useful. All you need is a monitor with the right cable to plug into your laptop’s port, which for my old laptop is most monitors. Newer laptops will do most of the setup for you, and on older ones, you right-click on your screen to bring up the menu/window that has display Properties at the bottom, pick Properties, then click the Settings tab on the far right. There’s an option for Multiple Monitors, and you should be able to work out the rest.

    Knowing your new monitor’s dimensions is nice, but you can just try anything. Arrange the screens as you prefer, and choose to extend your desktop onto the new screen. Warning: you may mess up your desktop icons in the process. (Having some wallpaper up will let you now when you get the new screen working.)

    Almost any monitor will work, and many will shut themselves off when you disconnect. I’ve a couple from desktop computers that quit working, and a couple I picked up at garage sales for a dollar or two.

    I just leave the monitor powered on, and shove the connector into the laptop when I’m at that desk. I have to tell the computer to use the monitor then, but disconnecting requires no ceremony. (Well, I had to remember to put my text window on the laptop screen, because Notepad doesn’t automatically go back to the main screen.)

    It’s easier than I made it sound, and it’s really nice to have multiple monitors.

  39. says

    Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞

    Assuming you mean a surgical abortion (as opposed to a medication abortion), an early term abortion is no picnic, but of course nothing compared to childbirth. Many clinics offer anesthesia — for an extra fee which insurance doesn’t cover — in which case you don’t experience/remember the pain during the procedure itself, just the cramping afterward when you come to in the recovery room. Cramping/bleeding can last a few days or more.

    I just read the IUD thread over at Lousy Canuck, and it sounds like getting an IUD is similar to having an abortion. I.e. sucks for a little while, but it’s worth it.

  40. says

    Iris:

    just the cramping afterward when you come to in the recovery room. Cramping/bleeding can last a few days or more.

    I didn’t have any cramping or bleeding after mine. I took a valium before the procedure, that was it.

    Back in the day, I also had an IUD (copper 7). I had more of a physiological reaction* to that insertion than the abortion.

    *The only time in my life I felt like I was going to faint. I came close, but didn’t. No cramps or other hassles after. Both the abortion and the IUD were done when I was 17, don’t know if that matters or not.

  41. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    irvisvanderpluym:
    Sorry, I was unaware there were different types of abortion.

    Thanks to you and CAINE for the response.

  42. says

    Caine:

    Both the abortion and the IUD were done when I was 17, don’t know if that matters or not.

    It probably matters. How far along the pregnancy is no doubt matters too. And of course every person is wired differently with respect to physiology and pain. I wonder how much variation in the skill of the physician matters too. But I’m afraid to look into the research (lest I lose more faith in humanity and/or the medical profession).

  43. Alexander the Good Enough says

    Well now, since the elections are over we’ve got to think about something else for the nonce to keep our blood up. This is completely OT, I know, and I hope it doesn’t get moderated out of existence, but I’m going to say “Pope.” On the off chance no one here has noticed and commented on it, and IF anyone cares this early in the season, the Pope, Il Papa!, has joined the “War on Christmas!” The Horror! The wailing and gnashing of teeth! Of course, I’m rather inclined to think that Benny and all of his red-hat buddies in Rome are a nest of atheists, and not the good kind either, that have been running the biggest scam of all time. But maybe they’re slipping?

  44. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Alexander:
    Here in the Lounge, as long as you are kind, there is no ‘off topic’. It is an open thread. We frequently have multiple conversations going on in addition to various links to items of interest, such as yours.
    Welcome. Pull up a chair.

  45. says

    Alexander the Good Enough:

    For a fact, the Christians stole Christmas. We don’t mind sharing it with them, but we don’t like this pretense of theirs that it is the birthday of Jesus. It is the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun–Dies Natalis Invicti Solis. Christmas is a relic of sun worship.
    -Anne Nicol Gaylor

    The pope is an arrogant sonofabitch.

  46. Alexander the Good Enough says

    Been around a long, LONG time; mostly just lurk. I’ve never commented on the endless thread, but I thought I’d bring Benny’s, umm…, heresy to folk’s attention, and I figured this is probably the best place to do it. Other than getting old, no other real problems to complain about… Oh well…

  47. F says

    Caine

    Love the hammock. The rats look great.

    Jadehawk

    It is teh suck. More power to you.

    Janine

    Thanks for the playlist.

  48. Alexander the Good Enough says

    Caine, getting old didn’t much bother me until I hit 60. Then I had to sit down and think about it. (Being male maybe helps a bit, but only a bit if one considers the actuarial realities…) At 60, perhaps the biggest change is in one’s perspective on the future. It starts becoming very finite.

  49. says

    Ing:

    Spouse and I have decided that if we ever have kids we’re not doing Santa…we’re going to make up our own bastardized version. So it’s going to be Abe Lincoln visiting the good children to give them books and toys for being good.

    If I had ever wanted sprogs, I would have gone with Krampus.

  50. says

    Alexander:

    Caine, getting old didn’t much bother me until I hit 60. Then I had to sit down and think about it. (Being male maybe helps a bit, but only a bit if one considers the actuarial realities…) At 60, perhaps the biggest change is in one’s perspective on the future. It starts becoming very finite.

    Yeah, it’s a bit tough when you hit a point where you know your time is limited. My biggest problem, I suppose, is that I’m still 27 in my head.

  51. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    JAL:
    has there been any improvement in the situation with the father of your little one? Apologies if I missed an update. I just hope you and yours are free of him.
    ****
    I too miss Oggie. I also miss Krasnaya.
    ****
    Alexander’s delurking has me wondering-once again-how many lurkers we have here (in the Lounge). Ah well, probably no way of knowing, but I hope they know they are welcome here.

  52. chigau (無) says

    Caine
    re:#110
    Is the response to:
    “Can we haz ratty cam?”
    still:
    “When hell freezes over.”?

  53. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Just remember: you’re not really old until you’re automatically suspicious of unfamiliar teenagers. O.o

    (You’re ancient once you start confusing 20-somethings with teenagers.)

  54. says

    Chigau:

    Is the response to:
    “Can we haz ratty cam?”
    still:
    “When hell freezes over.”?

    Yes. Sorry. The studio is *huge* and as the rats free range, to do a rat cam would require about a hundred cams set up all over the place. You can’t see them more than half the time anyway, they’re in boxes or hammocks or other types of cover.

  55. says

    Azkyroth:

    Just remember: you’re not really old until you’re automatically suspicious of unfamiliar teenagers.

    I didn’t give a shit about teens when I was one and I don’t give a shit about them now.

  56. F says

    Caine:

    Fantastic! I want to know people are having fun. I’m glad the rats are happy, and it makes me happier.

    My cats, you see, are not in fun mode. My old evil kitty, who strangely is very tolerant and even friendly with other cats that come into the apartment, is not having a good time with the new kitty. After he stopped acting afraid of everything, he decided he wants to dominate the old cat via surprise attack. She’s still being good about it, but moving from annoyed to depressed. This is not good for My Lord Arioch. I think Jack(Rabbit), who is also really a good cat, picked up some bad information from his former roomate who liked to walk all over him.

    So that’s the update, too, from the previous Lounge, for Beatrice, rq, Giliell, and Socio-gen. Further: I don’t need to submit to Jack, he’s not that kind of cat. (To be honest, I’m not that kind of submissive-to-cats human, either. In jest or not, some people really are, aren’t they?) On average, he’s a bit of a scaredy. Pics: I’ll work on that.

    Hooray for rats! Oh, and cats too. Dogs. Turtles. Nice humans. Les animaux.

  57. chigau (無) says

    Caine
    What about little-teeny cameras attached to each rat?
    That shouldn’t be to hard.
    (I was giggling so much, that was hard to type)

  58. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Ing:
    I’ve wanted kids for over a decade now. Among the many things I’ve wondered is how to handle the Santa thing. There’s something dishonest about it that bugs me, and given how I have come to embrace the impotance of truth, I just don’t think I want to raise my child thinking imaginary creatures are real.
    Lounge Parents:
    How have you handled the Santa thing with your kids (assuming Santa is even a thing where you hail)?

  59. Alexander the Good Enough says

    Azkyroth, I’ve worked for the last 35 years making and selling wine. ALL under 30-somethings look to me like a threat to my continued employment! They get proofed.

  60. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    I was pretty clear up front with my daughter that Santa was a fun pretend game. Her mom is still bitter about that, I hear.

    (She occasionally pipes up with “Daddy! Momma believes in pretend!” lately.)

  61. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Caine:
    Sounds like the answer is individual head mounted cams on all the rats ;)

  62. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Askyroth:
    See, your approach makes sense to me. I mean, did the lack of a real Santa make xmas less exciting for your daughter?

  63. says

    Spouse and I have decided that if we ever have kids we’re not doing Santa…we’re going to make up our own bastardized version. So it’s going to be Abe Lincoln visiting the good children to give them books and toys for being good.

    Does Santa Lincoln also dispatch zombies while banging his male mistress or something? Because that could be awesome.

    Is there a listing of which FT blogs it’s okay to swear in service of non-dipshittery in? Because while I lucked out on Zinnia’s, and waited for others to do so at Butterflies and Crommunist, I really have no earthly idea whether it’s fine at any given moment elsewhere.

    Well, okay, Physioproffe and Lousy Canuck. But other than *that*.

  64. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Rutee:
    I think it varies blogger to blogger. No site wide rule. I think some cursing is deemed ok at most of the blogs, but the level of discourse allowed at Pharyngula is rare.

  65. says

    Good morning

    Ing
    I’m sorry to hear.
    I understand your worries and anxieties over talking to your mum. Always remember that even if she decides you’Re cruel and mean, you’re not and you’re doing it out of care

    Tony
    I gues that’s a huge “depends”.
    Depends on age of gestation and what method and so on. Look at it like dental work: There’s nothing wrong about getting a root canal done, and it’s not killing you, but you’d prefer to have a healthy tooth instead.

    just the cramping afterward when you come to in the recovery room. Cramping/bleeding can last a few days or more.

    I had a general which made me fucking tired for days. And yeah, cramping bleeding at the “normal period X 3″.
    Although I should add that the psychological factor of it being a wanted pregnancy gone wrong probably played a lot into it.

    Hello, Alexander
    *waves*

    +++
    Christmas
    It’s a a game we play. I take care to make it clear to the kids that this is play pretend.

  66. says

    Postscript…
    Abortion again
    Part of my “I really don’t want to need one” stems again from my position: I can’t get a legal one. I can get an illegal one that isn’t punished (any ou can never trust them) after I endure mandatory pro-life counselling. Combine with difficulties to fit everything into my schedule, the idea alone freaks me out. The idea of a third kid freaks me out much more, of course.

    Christmas again
    I just noticed that I’ll be alone with the kids on St. Nicholas eve. Need to call my friend…

  67. mildlymagnificent says

    Tony, we did Santa as part of the benign conspiracy of adults to make life fun for littlies. It’s not really dishonest unless you do it wrong. What a lot of people who want to be “honest” with their kids miss out on is that for little ones everything in their world is mysterious and inexplicable and magical.

    Try telling a 3 year old how electricity works – at some point, you will get to ‘it just is’. And you have no way of knowing, at all, whether they’ve understood what you told them up to that point. You only find out years later, if ever, what they took from such conversations. They might be able to name every single dinosaur or other thing they find interesting, but still be under the misapprehension that, when they grow up they’ll be able to fly like Astroboy (one reality detail that I managed to break at least one little heart over).

    You play all sorts of not-of-this-world imaginative things with little ones. Provided you introduce the reality check at a suitable point, you’ll have given them lots of toddler/pre-schooler delight, and an appreciation for how hard parents work, and how nice it is of them in the first place, to make things fun for their children.

    I might point out that our family tradition is to make the stuff that comes from Santa completely and entirely separate from the exchange of family gifts. There’s a santa sack at the end of the bed, maybe a trike or other *big* present, from santa. The family has a huge lunch after assembling all gifts into a gigantic heap and then there’s an orgy of distribution and unwrapping – orchestrated by the senior family member **playing santa** as the names of recipients are read out. All kids in our family are familiar with the idea of ‘playing santa’ being something that adults do for the family.

  68. Orange Utan says

    @mildlymagnificent

    All kids in our family are familiar with the idea of ‘playing santa’ being something that adults do for the family.

    In our family, it’s the youngest that gets to play santa and hand the presents out. My 3 and 4 year old nieces see it as an important responsibility making sure everybody has a present to open before they get one themselves. Rinse and repeat until all gone.

  69. rq says

    Good morning to everyone!
    Welcome to Alexander!

    Tony re: Christmas
    On my end, I look at Santa as a convenient bringer-of-mystery-toys, but I try not to push too much on the reality of it all. He’s just a character that hangs around this time of year, that’s all, along with snowmen, sugarplum fairies, and other assorted talking animals. I don’t really mind the point when they’ll figure out it’s all a sham, I’m hoping we’ll still have fun with it.

    The Husband’s family is a bit uptight about it, though. ALL presents come from Santa, no matter who they’re actually from, which I find somewhat odd, because when I was growing up, we had ONE present from ‘Santa’ (kind of like mildlymagnificent mentions above). All other presents were labelled according to giver, and it didn’t retract anything from the joy of Christmas(Winterfest).
    Then again, Husband’s family is hell-bent on keeping Christmas(Winterfest) just for kids, which I don’t agree with at all, because I want to enjoy Christmas(Winterfest) too, and feel a bit of surprise and wonder myself, not just leave it for the kids. Otherwise I will age too quickly (and I’m not even that old yet). (But this gets into the child:adult fun:serious dichotomy prevalent around here.) In any case, for them, you’re not supposed to reveal the true giver because that will ruin Christmas(Winterfest) for the littluns still believers. Bah HUMBUG, I say!

    +++

    chigau
    30-somethings with teenagers? Really? May I offer new glasses? ;)

    +++

    It looks like the most junior smallest slug is about to salivate himself into mobility. Distinct signs of sufficient effort and co-ordinated movement in evidence.
    Time to, once again, block off all cables and outlets, and warn the cat.

    +++

    F
    Thanks for the kitty update! I hope things settle into a lot of fun all around! :)
    And, by the way, what? You are not totally submissive to your feline overlords??? I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to pass this information on to those in charge…

  70. opposablethumbs says

    Jadehawk, I really hope the scheduling is sorted soon – especially after how difficult it was to get this even rolling. Crossed tentacles for you, it must be beyond horrible to have this going on :(

    Nearly on your way, Improbable Joe – nearly! (I’m impressed by the packing progress).

    Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck – having done each one (abortion and parturition) twice, as it ‘appens (thank you IUD failures), I honestly can’t remember anything about having an (early) abortion apart from the overwhelming feeling of YESSSSS!!!!!!! relief afterwards. I do remember I only missed a morning of classes, and was back in uni the same afternoon (that was for one of them – I actually don’t remember the other one at all. Remember one stupid judgemental nurse, though). Not a patch on giving birth, which was frankly bloody painful both times (with pain relief, thank you very much) and which I’d much rather forget. And it was three whole days before I was back at work, too.

    Oh yeah, and all of the above was free of charge thanks to the NHS. FSM but I appreciate that.

    Those rats have the best fun and food I can imagine any rats getting any time anywhere, Caine! They must seriously be the happiest rats in the world!

    We have never done santa – never even thought about it. The kids get presents from us (and my sibs and I got presents from our parents). What could be better than a (hopefully nice) surprise from someone who loves you?

  71. ednaz says

    Tony –

    Is it uncomfortable?

    A sharp pain for just a few moments. It was a very quick procedure. No pain afterwards.

    At 2-3 weeks.
    26 years ago.

  72. ednaz says

    Ing – Sorry you are in a tough place right now. : ( Please keep us updated.

    Jadehawk – I am sorry you are in pain. I hope your appointment gets straightened out soon.

    carlie – I hope your window gets unstuck. Is it o.k. if I swear for you?

  73. ednaz says

    Joe – Just a little while longer and you’ll see that place disappear in your rear view window.

    And Joe, one more thing. This is very important…

    Forget about all that macho shit and learn how to play guitar!

    *holds up lighter*

  74. rq says

    ednaz is in the house! :)
    I’m going to piggy-back on your 145 and send warm thoughts and support to Ing, Jadehawk and carlie!

  75. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ @ 115-

    Aw, you’re so sweet! I’m here, just lurking as usual.

  76. Beatrice says

    Ing

    Star Wars is reworked from ideas for a Flash Gordon movie

    Batman especially early on was very close to a Shadow fan fiction/rip off

    Watchmen started out as a story for the Charlton Comic Characters DC had at the time recently bought

    Huh. I had no idea.

    Point is it is possible to salvage fan fic ideas into something workable. I think writers should actually be applauded for reworking previous ideas into final products.

    Ok. Point taken.
    I’m not sure how to determine when a work is just a rip-off of another (except from really obvious rip-offs), and when it is changed enough for it to stand independently.


    Now that Ing has reminded me of Flash Gordon, I want to watch it again. I always loved that movie.

  77. rq says

    Beatrice
    Banana bread, that is… And I’ve never seen Flash Gordon.
    Thinking about it, that seems kind of strange, considering I grew up on the original Star Wars, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and E.T.. Also horse movies (Black Stallion, Black Beauty, Phar Lap…).
    Time to root through the archive; thanks for the trip into nostalgia, Beatrice! (/no snark)

  78. says

    Ooooooh, kitty pictures.

    Dear body
    You had food, you had something to drink, you had sleep, you had coffee. Stop acting like you’re going to faint any minute now, it’s not funny.

    Jadehawk
    Hugs and support.
    Is there any possibility you can leave the sorting shit out to somebody else? Honestly, there’s no cheating at this point. Get all the help you can and don’t give a fuck about burdening other people.

    Santa again
    I would guess that the kids would be pretty confused about things if we really did pretend there was one.
    Why do parents, grandparents, friends and family ask waht you want for christmas if that’s Santa? And why the fuck does he leave presents in all different places? And how come that mum and dad take me looking for a bike but never give me one but Santa knows exactly which one I picked.
    Related to this, I just went to the horror that is a toy-store to get a birthday present for #1’s BFF, 5 St. Nick’s presents (my kids and my friend’), small stuff and stuff to fill their advent calendar. I’m out of ideas already and I haven’t even started looking for christmas presents.

  79. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Beatrice – I’m doing well. Just getting ready to go to my most difficult student (I teach English here in SPb) so that doesn’t thrill me. But I just had three weeks off and can’t complain. Well, I guess I can complain, I just probably shouldn’t.

    Plus, I picked up the novovirus on a cruise ship and haven’t quite shaken it so I feel a bit nauseous. I know, poor me.

    Thanks for asking!

  80. F says

    Yes, I’m lucky to be able to have cats. Almost everyone around here does, and I get to interact with all of them. Dogs, not so much. I should start taking pictures, and be an intarnetz catz person.

    Cats take my mind off other crap when I need to decompress. Cats for everyone! Especially Jadehawk.

  81. says

    Is there any possibility you can leave the sorting shit out to somebody else?

    no, there really isn’t anyone able to do this for me.

    Cats for everyone! Especially Jadehawk.

    Jadehawk has a quite sufficient number of cats already

  82. says

    Jadehawk
    I’m sorry to hear. I hope you and they can work it out quickly.

    +++
    Head-> Desk
    I just noticed that at the beginning of the semester in one of my classesI made a mistake. I mixed up the different courses.
    For background, they didn’t reform any of the courses from 1981 to 2003. Since then they changed a whomping 4 times with all different requirements and credits and stuff and I got confused and fucked up and signed up for the “wrong” course.
    For my course I would have to write a class protocol and an exam, but I thought I was in the one that has to do a presentation with good hand-out.
    And now to completely confuse myself, the documents I have say 3 CP and that woudl be the one I thought I was and now, I’ll write a second mail and get confused even more.

  83. Beatrice says

    Krasnaya Koshka,

    I’m sorry you’ve been ill.

    Three weeks vacation and a cruise? That sounds great (except for the norovirus).

    John Morales,

    Heh. That does sound fun, at least for a bunch of teens.

    —-

    I wanted to go to the zoo, but I don’t feel like it any more, even though it is a beautiful day. I don’t want to go alone.

  84. rq says

    Ah, I love my nose… It does a fine job of reminding me I left my lunch heating on the stove. Preferable to the fire alarm, at any rate.
    (Damn you, interesting blogs, for making me lose track of time!!!)

  85. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Beatrice – Yeah, it was pretty wonderful, regardless. I know I’m super lucky.

    My lesson was not like pulling teeth today. Ура! And all my vast amounts of paperwork for residency and employment are now finished (it only took three years)!

    I understand not wanting to hit the zoo alone, but if it is a beautiful day? I likely would. I have a feeling we won’t be seeing any beautiful days here for quite some time. Although I do really love time alone, too.

  86. says

    @106,

    Other than getting old, no other real problems to complain about… Oh well…

    Maybe time for some of this then:

    Mother’s Little Helper

    (I was just listening to a report on the radio that the Stones are doing some concerts in London atm, and Jagger at age 69 sang 23 songs in a row without tiring)

    Jadehawk, hang in there! You’ve come this far!

  87. Beatrice says

    It just makes me sad that this is yet another thing I have to get used to doing alone. Things were easier when I was in contact with more people at the uni. Friends that I still have have either moved away or are on their way to having their own families (or both), having less and less time for a weirdo friend who’s getting nowhere.

    Meh, depressed.

  88. rq says

    Beatrice
    *hugs*
    I have an idea of how it might feel, but I know I (mostly) enjoy being alone (although there are different kinds of alone), so it’s probably different for you. Tea?

  89. Beatrice says

    rq,

    I do enjoy being alone… to a certain point. But I would like it to be something I can opt out of instead of just the way things are. If that makes any sense.

  90. rq says

    Beatrice
    That does make sense. A lot of sense.

    tea:
    I have chamomile, peppermint, black (two types), black with chocolate bits, fresh ginger, green-citrus, white-mandarin, melissa, meadowsweet, and rosehip-hibiscus. (We like our herbal teas. :) For flavour, not medicine.)
    Honey, sugar, milk? We’re out of cookies, I”m afraid (except animal crackers).

  91. chigau (無) says

    Can fake tattoos express a real sentiment?
    If they meant it, they’d get a real tattoo.
    (I know. Leviticus.)
    —-
    And have they defined “man” and “woman”?

  92. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Chigau, I have no ink and want no ink. (I am the only adult member of my family who is inkless.) Also, it has been decades since I had a temp tattoo. (Does henna count?)

    Can I mean anything?

    *snark*

  93. chigau (無) says

    Janine
    At least with henna when you put your One True Love’s name over your heart you don’t need more ink to change it after you break up.

  94. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Bit of this and that:

    The customer service rep who called me to follow-up on something and get my opinion of my visit to the service center could NOT have seemed more bored. I wanted to give her a hug. :(

    Spilt DMSO on my (gloved) hands. Changed the gloves immediately, gave my hands a good scrub. Still have that garlicky ick taste in my mouth. *grumbles*

    On the drive home from Feast of Turkey Eating, I found myself listening to a pop radio station. And this song came on. 5 minutes of googling has HEIGHTENED my squicked-out feelings of this song. D:

  95. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    You could have warned us that it was an Eminem song.

    Could have been worse, it could have been that Chris Brown/Rhianna song.

    *squick*

  96. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    If that had been Brown and not Eminem I think I would have started crying, Janine. That song is BAD ENOUGH as it is.

  97. says

    Well… I made all my phone calls, I have the trailer scheduled for drop-off at my house and delivery to the new house, I had to book a SECOND set of movers because the first set never called me back or answered any emails and apparently don’t exist. I’m so glad I paid up-front for that… fuckers. Updated my insurance info with Virginia DMV so that they don’t suspend my licence during my cross-country “exciting adventure on the road.”

    I swear, that part of it is maybe more stressful than the packing. At least the packing is in MY hands, and I have some control over it. This other stuff… not so much.

  98. cicely says

    You have my sympathies, Jadehawk. This month just seems to be overflowing with suckitude.
    :(

    Howdy, Alexander the Good Enough; welcome in!

    We didn’t do Santa or Jebus, with Son. He seems to have survived both absences just fine.

    We went for the “historically, human cultures have tended to have some celebration of the turning of the seasons from the Longest Night toward longer days, as well as harvest-time (approximating Thanksgiving, and leaving out the Pilgrim/Indians garbage) and spring fertility festivals (approximating Easter)” approach.

    F: I used to have a cat named Arioch. :)

    What about little-teeny cameras attached to each rat?

    I visualize the cameras being on tiny little leather helmets. With teeny, tiny little chin-straps.
    :D
    -

  99. says

    I’m not sure how to determine when a work is just a rip-off of another (except from really obvious rip-offs), and when it is changed enough for it to stand independently.

    My rule of thumb is when it rips off of three or more sources :-p

    Though really much of art is taking in separate things and using them to synthesize something new. The matrix for example is one often refereed to as rip off because it is very clearly influenced from many sources, most notably Ghost in the Shell, Dark City, John Woo movies etc. But while it takes notable elements from those inspirations it doesn’t’ really plagiarize persay, there’s no characters you can point to and claim they’re just a pallet swap of someone.

    I think the trick is the art of drafting. pre-draft outlining is to get the ideas out and see what works then each rewrite explores the themes and interaction with characters and retweaks them seeing what peices work well and thus becoming more and more ‘original’.

    50 Shades does fail because the names are sort of very clear pallet swaps, not enough is changed to make them distinguishable characters rather than just someone in a new suit.

    Oddly the first few chapters and all would work VERY well for a horror story

    (+********************

    Got emial back from mother and looks positive. Yay

    ***************************

  100. broboxley OT says

    #131 Azkyroth
    “Mr. (insert name here) recently arrested and jailed for child molestation”
    very hard to prove malice as a cursory google search offers up a large portion of folks with that last name incarcerated so the defence would be “oopsie”. It is along the nature of the question.
    “when did you stop beating your spouse?” sux but passes legal muster

  101. says

    Dale McGowan at Parenting Beyond Belief has a great take on Santa being the ultimate skepticism dry run — a mystery to solve that’s exciting and that kids can be proud of themselves for figuring out.

    I came on that idea too late, as much as I like it — we didn’t do Santa, just presents from family and stockings on Xmas morning filled “by Weinachtsman” with a wink and a nod, which both kids figured out was a game in no time at all. Now everyone in the family plays Weinachtsman, slipping surprises in people’s stockings.

  102. says

    Does Santa Lincoln also dispatch zombies while banging his male mistress or something? Because that could be awesome.

    Is there a listing of which FT blogs it’s okay to swear in service of non-dipshittery in? Because while I lucked out on Zinnia’s, and waited for others to do so at Butterflies and Crommunist, I really have no earthly idea whether it’s fine at any given moment elsewhere.

    Yes he does. Also rather than fly or come down the chimney he has slender-man extending arms and legs and climbs in through windows. You leave old already read books for him along with cookies and wild turkey.

  103. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Krasnaya:
    Very nice to hear from you. I hope you shake off that virus soon
    ****
    mildlymagnificent:
    Thanks for the perspective on Santa. I never looked at it that way. Did you & your family downplayed the supernatural aspects of Santa?
    ****
    Beatrice:
    I’m going to wave my magic wand and teleport over to you. I like going to the zoo too. Haven’t gone for years. I am not a ‘do things by myself’ type person. Don’t get me wrong, I obviously do frequently find myself going places alone. I just would much rather share experiences with someone. If I go shopping I want to talk with someone or have fun trying on clothes or discuss clothing styles. If I go to lunch, I want someone to eat with. That’s one of the reasons I’ve never gone on a cruise. My desire to not be alone is amplified to fear fraught proportions. The thought of going somewhere completely new all by myself, surrounded by no one I know fills me with dread. To make matters worse, I don’t make friends easily because I prefer having quality friends and it takes time to cultivate that kind of friendship.
    ****
    ME: I hate typing on this phone. I am usually a stickler for punctuation and spelling and both are difficult to do quickly on here. I’m about ready to say SCREW THE APOSTROPHE!
    __
    I’m of course finding most people on Match.com to be Christian and in many cases, Catholic. None of the matches in my area are my type thus far, but it’s something I worry about if/when I encounter someone who I share chemistry with.

  104. Beatrice says

    Oddly the first few chapters and all would work VERY well for a horror story

    Haven’t read the books, but from some excerpts, it certainly looks like it.

  105. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Yippee! Just got an email update saying West Florida now has an American Humanist Association chapter. I actually know several kther atheists so I don’t have to go to meetings alone.
    ****
    cicely:
    ARIOCH is a really cool sounding name. And +1 for being unique.
    ****
    kristinc:
    Santa as a skepticism dry run sounds like a great idea. I wonder if he gradually dropped hints or clues as his children got older.

  106. ImaginesABeach says

    We did Santa with my kids. When BoyChild told me there is no god, he pointed out that there are no vampires or Santa either. As in “people talk about Santa, but can’t prove it, therefore there is no Santa. People talk about god, but can’t prove it, therefore there is no god.”

  107. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Jadehawk:
    If women are not women anymore, what the heck are they (that sounds like the lead in to a joke)? Oh for the day when FOX news takes the cruise to oblivion.

  108. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    ImaginesABeach:
    Was skepticism taught in your household? It is fantastic that Boychild came to that conclusion.
    ****
    John @150:
    That came across as a passive aggressive way of saying “you’ve exceeded the three post rule”. I don’t care if anyone does that, personally. I try to avoid it bc PZ is Ruler of All and thats what he wants. A gentle comment might work better, IMHO.

  109. Beatrice says

    Tony,

    The thought of going somewhere completely new all by myself, surrounded by no one I know fills me with dread. To make matters worse, I don’t make friends easily because I prefer having quality friends and it takes time to cultivate that kind of friendship.

    I know exactly how you feel. It’s scary how similar this is to my own thoughts.

  110. ednaz says

    Caine – Thanks! Love the new play station! hee hee

    rq – Looks like I turned in when you were getting up. : )

    Beatrice – Thanks for the recipe. Yay!

    Esteleth – Yes. squick. Wrong on so many levels.

    Alexander the Good Enough – Hello! *waves*

    Ing – Yay?

  111. cicely says

    Tony: I can’t claim any originality for Arioch…since I nicked it from Michael Moorcock’s works.

    Since Arioch was a Lord of Chaos, and cats as a species, in my opinion, align decisively chaotic, it seemed appropriate.
    -

  112. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Caine:
    When you mentioned the rats’ new playstation, I got an image of 20+ rats huddled on a couch with controllers playing on a PS3…

  113. says

    On my end, I look at Santa as a convenient bringer-of-mystery-toys, but I try not to push too much on the reality of it all. He’s just a character that hangs around this time of year, that’s all, along with snowmen, sugarplum fairies, and other assorted talking animals. I don’t really mind the point when they’ll figure out it’s all a sham, I’m hoping we’ll still have fun with it.

    That was my approach, generally. And I think we’re past the ‘figured out it’s a sham’ stage, now. There were and will still be gifts ‘From Santa’. When the kids got to the point where they were asking, I figure they’d mostly worked it out, anyway. I felt comfortable enough by the time my daughter asked (my son technically never did, just announced he figured it didn’t make much sense, seems to have heard stuff around school or whatever) just saying stuff like, okay, well, you know the stories; you work out if it makes sense to you. And seeing as we were doing things like watching that online ‘NORAD Santa Tracker’, and my kids do have a general sense of the size of the world and just how many people are in it, it’s not like it was a hard one. Picturing Lightspeed Santa™ somehow doing millions of chimneys in seconds, presumably appearing to observers as a barely perceptible blur of red and white for parts of a microsecond in each home and in an age and in places where not everyone even has a chimney (and the ski condo where they usually are on the 25th has an airtight woodstove that’s generally roaring, presumably making some kind of serious insulated protection–not to mention some kind of shrink ray, considering how narrow the flue is–necessary to get safely down around the time the Elf should be showing up), well, it’s not like it was exactly ever the most credible story, anyway.

    I don’t blame anyone for having some anxieties about it. I always did, honestly, am kind of relieved it’s come to this point where it’s now a bit academic. Just kind of fumbled to that solution, really. And it’s not perfect. My wife, I think, still fears I’m raising some kind of variant of dangerous pan-skeptics/unbelievers under her roof on purpose, and this may be yet one more grievance, as she seems mildly miffed the little guy is catching on comparatively young (notwithstanding, again, I think I had little to do with how his views have developed, I’m still not sure I won’t be blamed for this, too)…

    But what can ya do. If I could do it all over again, I’d probably play it more or less the same, honestly. Just haven’t come up with much better. They still seem to have lots of fun at this time of the year, anyway. Working it out, then moving on to assisting at playing the role, it’s kind of a rite of passage, I figure.

  114. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Ing @199:
    Sounds like an amalgamation of Santa and Inspector Gadget…

  115. rq says

    Beatrice and Tony re: being alone
    It’s funny (in that strange way, not haha), what you both say about not wanting to be alone. When I was younger, I felt the same way – my One True Dream was to find the Love of My Life by 16 (like in all the movies – ok, fine, 18 at the latest) and live happily together.
    Except it never happened. Not in that way, at least. I couldn’t stop the feeling that nobody around me understood me, or that I understood them, and having friends didn’t make me feel any more comfortable – in fact, the more social I tried to be, the weirder I felt. People liked me, and I liked people (for the most part), but there wasn’t ever any connection.
    I still feel it every day, and I think that’s what let me do things on my own. I didn’t like it at first, but it became a matter of course, and later – a matter of pride that I went everywhere alone. I’ve spent a whole lot of time trying to find the kind of understanding that I want, and I don’t think I’ve ever found it, or ever really will.
    And I have companionship, and yes, the love of my life, and yes – a happy situation, but I’m still not understood instinctively. I’m still (I still feel) alone. But I suppose I’ve stopped trying to change that.

    Essentially: good luck to you both. Being alone can be fun and exhilarating, except when it’s the last thing you actually want.
    But it is, yes it is possible to find someone with whom not to be alone. Usually when you least expect it (yeah, that’s a cliche, but it seems to be true, in my case – anecdotal evidence?).
    (These days I’d rather be alone, but that’s just because I’m also anti-social. :) )

    ANYWAY. Whatever. Blah. Ech. I’m going to go cry now.

  116. Richard Austin says

    I think it’s totally possible for little kids to “catch on” even when parents are trying to keep the myth of Santa alive. According to my mother, I never believed in Santa – even when my older sister still believed. I didn’t challenge it, but she says I would give her “knowing looks” and play along.

    I certainly remember being 4 or 5 and signing tags on presents “from Santa’s elves” – since my parents were Santa, that made me an elf.

    But then, I don’t think I ever really believed in god either: I was raised Catholic, but church was just another thing I had to do (like school). You went through the motions, said what you were supposed to say, and that was that.

  117. says

    Beatrice (and Tony

    Friends that I still have have either moved away or are on their way to having their own families (or both), having less and less time for a weirdo friend who’s getting nowhere.

    Right there with you on this one. Turkey Day was pretty much the first time I’ve seen any of my meatspace friends (other than the people who live with me) in better than a year at this point.

  118. says

    … oh, and speaking of playing the role: my daughter has already wrapped up a present for her Lucasfilm-obsessed younger brother marked as coming from ‘Skywalker Industries’ on ‘Tatooine’, with the postal code ‘5t4r w4r5′. She arranged for the doorbell to ring, then pretended to answer and receive it for him. But (note the code) I don’t expect he was particularly meant to buy it, nor did he at all seem to. So, again, I think they get it, and are having fun with it, and that’s satisfying to see…

    That said, this year, I think I’ve resolved after some brief thought on the matter still not to leave any blatant tells in the ‘Santa’ gifts or the stockings, as previously, largely because that’s part of the fun, getting that right, and, especially and importantly, part of my wife’s fun: sneaking stuff in, sneaking the stockings into place, making sure the wrapping paper used for that stuff appears nowhere else, that’s part of the game, for her, and I’m not going to spoil that for her. I’ll play it by ear as the years pass, and I’m sure the day will come when if I feel like putting in some homemade chocolates into the stocking that look an awful lot like the ones I happen to make, that’ll be no big deal. But it’s probably a little early for that this year, and for everyone, honestly, even if there’s folk might see that as a bit silly. Doing the pretending right, making a bit of an effort to do so, that’s part of the ritual, the way I see it. It’s only kind, if we move onto that, even, seems to me, and worth a little trouble to concoct a version thereof you don’t see the rest of the year. Call it making an effort, making it a little special. We’re in an odd place, with this stuff–my wife never really got to do this stuff as a kid herself–so I’m making it up as I go along, again. But I expect it’s probably the best move I’ve got, for now.

  119. Richard Austin says

    rq:

    Except it never happened. Not in that way, at least. I couldn’t stop the feeling that nobody around me understood me, or that I understood them, and having friends didn’t make me feel any more comfortable – in fact, the more social I tried to be, the weirder I felt. People liked me, and I liked people (for the most part), but there wasn’t ever any connection.
    I still feel it every day, and I think that’s what let me do things on my own. I didn’t like it at first, but it became a matter of course, and later – a matter of pride that I went everywhere alone. I’ve spent a whole lot of time trying to find the kind of understanding that I want, and I don’t think I’ve ever found it, or ever really will.
    And I have companionship, and yes, the love of my life, and yes – a happy situation, but I’m still not understood instinctively. I’m still (I still feel) alone. But I suppose I’ve stopped trying to change that.

    I’ve spent my entire life feeling like the outsider. To me, there is no “home” – no place that is special or has some secret meaning. There hasn’t been a person who I’ve ever felt “groked” me. I have friends – even what could be considered close friends – but I never, ever feel like I belong in a specific crowd or that the person sitting across from me has any real connection to me.

    And the feeling is never not there. A good reason why I travel so well is that, really, I’m just as comfortable in a hotel as I am at home. I’m perfectly comfortable talking to total strangers because in a weird sense even people I’ve known for decades feel like total strangers.

    Most of the time, it’s livable. Some days, it’s hard. Once in a blue moon, it’s downright debilitating. But it’s always there.

    There’s a passage in the Illuminatus! Trilogy that hit it really hard for me:

    Once there was a man who was condemned to live on the moon. He knew the punishment was just, because he hated his father and such a sin deserves an extreme penalty. Nonetheless, his isolation was terrible and there were times when he thought his heart would break, just because he could never hear a human voice again.

    Well, he made the best of his cruel situation. He began sending messages from the moon, telling everything he knew about life on earth-all the joys and agonies and struggles, “the horror and the boredom and the glory” of the long climb upward from the slime to higher and higher consciousness. The people back on earth loved these signals, which contained so much of life’s drama, and they praised him extravagantly, and that gave him some comfort through the long years of his exile.

    Once, however, he sat down and made a message about his own loneliness, telling how it feels to be separated from humanity by 250,000 miles of Dead Silence.

    He called it the Hammerklavier Sonata.

    I don’t hate my father, and I don’t feel like this is “punishment”, but I’ve spent most of my life feeling like the man on the moon sending messages back to Earth. Some day, maybe I’ll write my own sonata.

  120. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Are we going to throw a Mayan end of the world Lounge party?

    Also, which of the silly scenarios is the funnest?
    Personally, I cannot decide between the ‘black hole swallowing the Earth’ or the ‘poles shifting’…

  121. Beatrice says

    rq,

    *slides the last piece of that choco&banana bread to you*
    That may or may not be a bribe so that you don’t cry.

    (If I ever have kids, they are going to be such spoiled brats)

    Dalillama,

    At least we’ve all got this place to relax and chat and complain… and occasionally release some pent-up anger by vigorous troll-stomping.

  122. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    …the lab next door has an unbalanced centrifuge. The floor is shaking. ಠ_ಠ

  123. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Meh…

    I have lived through a lot of end of the world prophecies. I prefer to ignore them.

    Besides, the Mayans did not even call for an end of the world. It was just a calender.

    What if someone from an other culture looked at on of our calenders and declared that the world ends on December 31.

    Maybe partying will help.

  124. broboxley OT says

    #227 Tony,
    you do realize that if you dig in the high arctic you find tropical artifacts. :-)

  125. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Richard:
    It’s funny. We both felt much the same way growing up, but it seems like you’ve come to be at peace with it, thus travelling alone is easy.
    M was the only person I have ever known who ‘got’ me. I like to think it was reciprocal.

    ****
    Beatrice:
    Have you ever thought “damn it I am going to overcome this parslyzing fear of going places alone and book a trip to Tahiti” only to be unable to go through with it? I actually tried to overcome this-fear isnt quite the right word for it-years ago by taking a birthday trip by myself. The result was me in a new city in a gay bar sitting at the bar drinking and feeling insecure that everyone was staring at me. Needless to say, fun it was not. I haven’t done that again.

  126. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Beatrice:
    Yeah, it is good to have this place. Even if you people eat strange foods…

  127. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Beatrice @175 – Ah, yes. I wasn’t putting into the bigger context. Well, of course I can understand even more then. It’s not simply “going to the zoo alone”.

    I’m very familiar with depression.

    I was under the impression for a long time that if I’d only gotten a university degree my life would’ve been much better. But I understand now it would’ve made no difference to me.

    Being a homo makes you have to leave your family eventually (in my experience, for my sanity–I realize not everyone feels that way) so I moved to San Francisco in 1987 and created my own family and my own friends. These are my friends today, my best friends. In some ways, being gay is really great for ending depression, though it heaps on depression of a different kind.

    I am not suggesting you become persuaded to the lesbian side. I’m saying there’s something about you that will draw like-minded people to you and then you’ll make the best friends of your life.

    Dear Beatrice, I know you’re quite young and I was impatient when I was young (I’m not saying you are) but good things will come to you. (I absolutely HATED when people said that to me but it’s true.)

    You are a very interesting person and there’s a huge world out there.

    I was obsessed with Russia and now I live in Russia and am like a pig in slop.

    As an aside: In January, 2010 my gf and I were going to Zagreb (my gf is a travel photographer for many Russian tour companies as a second job so we travel a lot) but while I was allowed to go, she was not. Russians have to get a ridiculous number of visas but this time it was that she had to have a notarized validation of our hotel in Zagreb, on paper. Russia needs paper, and wet stamps. Or maybe it was Croatia that needed it. Anyway, we diverted to Lakarta, Cyprus with our parkas and snow boots. So I have never seen Croatia. Still on my “I Want To” list.

  128. says

    rq
    All I can offer is *hugs* and commiserations. If I knew anything that would help, I’d have done it myself.
    Richard Austin

    but I never, ever feel like I belong in a specific crowd or that the person sitting across from me has any real connection to me.

    And the feeling is never not there.

    I hear this too, although I don’t travel that well anymore either. My sense of direction is crap, and I’m used to navigating by landmarks, so if I’m anywhere unfamiliar I start to get nervous about locating myself/getting lost.

  129. Beatrice says

    Tony,

    I planned it. You know that trip to Italy this summer? I thought this friend wouldn’t want to go (she moved out of town more than a year ago, and we had only seen each other once after that) and I had no one else to ask (there are three people in my life I would consider travelling with and two were busy over the summer with job/boyfriend). But I was determined to go, so I decided that I would go no matter what she said.
    In the end, she accepted, so I didn’t have to think about going through with it. I don’t know. I think I would have stuck with my plan and traveled by myself.
    Would I have cried myself to sleep later in the hostel, after walking around the city alone? Probably.

    I’ve tried convincing myself that “I don’t need anyone”, but I do, I really do. I like enjoying beautiful or happy things by myself, for a while. Take it all in without interruption. But I also like to be able to share them.

  130. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    I was in a flea market, one time, and found some lovely glasses. Drinking glasses, I mean, shaped like parabolas inside and out, of cobalt-blue glass. I bought them because I loved them, and hoped one day to have a home where I could have them seen and used, where they and I would be at home.

    The sales clerk wrapped them carefully, and I added some padding so they would be safe in storage.

    I brought a couple of them out, once, and they got broken by a housemate. So I put the rest deeper in storage.

    I live in a house, now, and it is supposedly my home, permanently, as part of a family. But the glasses are still in their box.

  131. Richard Austin says

    I hear this too, although I don’t travel that well anymore either. My sense of direction is crap, and I’m used to navigating by landmarks, so if I’m anywhere unfamiliar I start to get nervous about locating myself/getting lost.

    *blink*

    You know, that’s one thing I don’t think I’ve ever thought about. Like, honestly. I mean, I’ve had situations where I didn’t know where I was going – e.g., I didn’t know the location of the place I was trying to reach – but I don’t know that I’ve ever been in a situation where I didn’t know where I was, at least in a general sense if not fairly specifically.

    /instinctive-navigation-privilege?

    (Seriously, maps and directions have always been, to me, about getting someplace, not about knowing my current location. That’s always been a given. I guess I’ve never really thought that everyone isn’t like that – I mean, I guess I knew it, but I didn’t really grok it. Something to ponder.)

  132. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Beatrice:
    Please get out of my head ;)
    I completely understand.
    I’ve likened it before to a security blanket in human form

  133. Beatrice says

    Tony,

    *shakes head sadly*
    *waves a little flag*

    —–

    Krasnaya Koshka,

    Yeah, I’m hanging on to the idea that something good is going to come eventually. And I don’t really have it all that bad, comparing to, for example, your having to leave your family because they didn’t accept you. But I’m glad that turned out so good for your, that you found good friends.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Croatia wanted extra papers from your girlfriend. Our bureaucracy loves making people’s lives complicated by paperwork too. I hope you manage to visit Croatia some day. It is quite nice here, especially if you visit the coast just before/after high season.

  134. Krasnaya Koshka says

    rq @219 – But we are always alone. Of course. You’re born alone and you die alone. You can’t expect anyone to totally understand you, except you. To do so is to set yourself up for failure.

    My gf is Russian. She speaks broken English. I speak crappy Russian but we love each other deeply. I know she has my back and I have hers but she hates horror movies while I love them. I hate sappy romance movies but she loves them.

    We have no connections media-wise (she’s wholly disinterested in music while I’m a music fanatic) except I think she’s a great person–generous, honest, kind and she’s brilliant. Her side interests are interests of mine because she’s a marvelous human. And she’s embraced all music I’ve introduced to her.

    So I will sit through “The Bodyguard”, for her. And she’ll listen to Kate Bush for me.

  135. rq says

    Richard Austin
    Some days it just really really bites, you know? Even when I know I prefer being alone, when I know I prefer going alone, when I know I have the guts (even though being terrified) do go to that movie alone (again)… In a way, it’s better now that I am married, but at the same time, now I feel claustrophobic. And then I have inner conflict and guilt about the combination of these two feelings.
    One day I’ll finish writing that story I have, the one that I think more or less encapsulates that feeling of constantly-searching, of being a singularity yet fearing it, desiring something always just-out-of-reach…
    Yes, that passage out of the Illuminatus! does very much hit the nail on the head.

    Honestly, you’d think being in the middle of a translation about tourism would make this less emotional.

    +++

    Beatrice
    Thanks for the banana-choco-bread. That was excellent, but you have to remember, sometimes bribes don’t work. :) Even on children.

    +++

    Esteleth
    I hate the noise of an unbalanced centrifuge. I think it’s the most frightening sound on earth, especially late at night, alone in the lab, with plans on a Saturday night. My sympathies.

    +++

    Tony
    I give you – one dose of liquid courage! But seriously, here’s some *hugs* because I may know how you feel on the surface, but I never had the paralyzing fear, because I didn’t care (in that bad, I’m-so-bad-ass-I-don’t-give-a-shit spiteful way, not the I’m-proud-of-who-I-am awesome way), and I wish I could help you.

    +++

    Dalillama
    Thank you for the kind words. I suppose it’s just something I have to live with because that’s the way I am. :) I’m not all that old but I’ve lost the hope that I’ll ever find that understanding I want. I was putting small change on this place, but it’s too early to tell.

    +++

    re: Santa
    I figured Santa out with my siblings when we discovered he has identical handwriting to my mother’s. But we kept up with the joke, and it was a running joke, having one present from ‘Santa’ that was just a bit extra, for celebrating Christmas(Winterfest).

  136. Krasnaya Koshka says

    Beatrice @242 – Yes, I’ve heard Croatia is gorgeous (from Russians, and they’re harsh judges) so I so want to go. I feel stymied. I should’ve been there already.

    It was not the same, shuffling along in my snow boots on the “cold”* beaches of Cyprus. I’m not a huge fan of beaches, honestly. I burn in about two minutes.

    “What are we going to do? We have only winter clothes packed!”

    *Aeroflot agent**- “Cyprus has cold beaches.”

    **To be fair, Aeroflot is my favorite international airline. The best food and endless drinks, provided you speak Russian.

  137. rq says

    Krasnaya Koshka @243
    See, that I understand. I know I’m never going to be identical to anyone around me. I’m always going to have some different interests, etc., and that’s fine.
    My Husband is native-Latvian more-or-less conservative-rural post-Soviet mentality. I’m third-generation-Canadian-exiled-Latvian raised-Catholic-now-nothing-much rural-forest-to-suburban typical-Canadian-from-the-1990s mentality. Somehow we make it work. Considering the road we took to get where we are, I am more than 100% convinced that we would do anything for each other (including sitting through terrible movies for each other’s pleasure :) ).
    But there’s always a feeling of being outside and looking in, and never being on the same wavelength as anyone else, even the Husband – not so much having the same interests, etc., but being instinctively understood. I don’t know, it’s strange to try to explain it, because you could mention what it is like, and I would say, Yes, but…
    Richard Austin painted it well.

    Richard
    What you say about navigation. I’ve always needed a map to know where I was going, because I’ve also known where I am. My problem has usually been getting someplace else, and I hate the feeling of not knowing where I am, or of reading the map wrong. It’s terrifying, but so far I’ve managed to figure out ways around that (picking one giant landmark, getting there, and then basically working out everything from zero).

    Beatrice
    Something good will come for you.

    Tony
    Something good will come for you.
    (PS I’m a personal fan of the shifting poles, if you want end-of-the-world scenarios to laugh at.)

    Menyambal @238
    For some reason that strikes me as very sad.

  138. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    birgerjohanssen:
    I am so sorry for the loss of your uncle. I’m glad you will be able to console your mother.

  139. cicely says

    Well, well, well. I am shocked.

    I thought that everything was out there, somewhere on the Interwebs…and yet, I looked for an image of something (banner, tee shirt, bumper sticker) with

    No Jesus!
    No Peas!

    and came up empty.

    Huh.
    -

  140. says

    I certainly remember being 4 or 5 and signing tags on presents “from Santa’s elves” – since my parents were Santa, that made me an elf.

    This makes me feel a little more reassured, I guess. That I’m not some mutant or somethin’. And, at the present time, mebbe more pressingly, that it isn’t some dreadful outlier that my little guy is where he is, when he is. I don’t even think I was that young. And he certainly isn’t.

    But then, re:

    But then, I don’t think I ever really believed in god either: I was raised Catholic, but church was just another thing I had to do (like school). You went through the motions, said what you were supposed to say, and that was that.

    Funny thing. This, too, sounds awfully familiar. But as I’ve done tens of thousands of words already on this, I won’t go on yet again…

    … except to say: what strikes me at the same time is: your #226/Hammerklavier Sonata thing, it also has this familiar ring…

    … I’m going to avoid overanalyzing*, drawing premature conclusions for what may just be a random correlation, and me in some mood to find them and familiarities. Because I don’t think I’d have described my sense of distance/anywhere is home thing quite as starkly, at least prior to seeing that (very eloquent) one just now… I think, and whoinhell knows…

    … still, noting. Interesting.

    (*/Oh, as if I’m going to avoid it, entirely. But I’ll try, for now, is all I’m saying.)

  141. Krasnaya Koshka says

    rq @247 – Yes, I TOTALLY get that. I mostly get that when I’m trying to interact with my family, though I do keep trying.

    Sometimes when I’m listening to something that very much affects me, like Donizetti’s Maria Stuarda with Edita Gruberova, I feel very alone that no one can experience it with me.

    Or feel very alone being American roaming the streets of Saint Petersburg (though I made that, so maybe I like to compound my feeling alone).

    Anyway, I’m happy you didn’t find my comment patronizing. I sometimes really believe I’m losing my ability to have English conversations. And so I run away.

  142. Beatrice says

    Krasnaya Koshka,

    I mostly just planned to take the risk, then lucked out when friend decided to travel with me.

    *hugs* for everyone who’s feeling down

    I have a chocolate bar and “Feet of Clay”, I’m off to read until I fall asleep.

  143. says

    birgerjohansen
    Condolences on the loss of your uncle.
    rq

    Even when I know I prefer being alone, when I know I prefer going alone, when I know I have the guts (even though being terrified) do go to that movie alone (again)… In a way, it’s better now that I am married, but at the same time, now I feel claustrophobic. And then I have inner conflict and guilt about the combination of these two feelings.

    You have stated it better than I think I could. Marriage helps me less with that as well because L is severely agoraphobic, and thus not much prone to go out either. I find that even when I do go somewhere, be it alone or in company, I can’t mingle. I feel as though I’m watching a movie about a gathering, not attending one in person. There’s always seemed to be something that people are doing, or knowing, that allows them to start conversations, make connections, etc. but I’ve never seemed to have it, and I can’t even really work out what it is, let alone why I haven’t got it.

  144. says

    Tony:

    When you mentioned the rats’ new playstation, I got an image of 20+ rats huddled on a couch with controllers playing on a PS3…

    Oh gods, they would *love* a couch if I’d let them have one. They’d probably eat the PS3.

  145. Beatrice says

    Oh, and Krasnaya Koshka, don’t run away! I hope you’ll comment in the Lounge more often instead.

  146. rq says

    cicely @250
    I smell a market for you.

    Krasnaya Koshka @252
    I actually did read it as being patronizing at first, but I thought about it, and decided not to take it personally. :)
    As for compounding the feeling alone, yeah, I think I do it, too. Maybe not so much anymore, but previously, a lot. But mostly because I was scared of what other people would say about me, because I take negativity pretty badly, so I’d convince myself I could do everything alone.

    birgerjohansson
    Sympathies!!! 94 – impressive! :( I hope your mother and you are doing as well as can be.

  147. rq says

    Beatrice
    Enjoy the book and the chocolate, and good night (I think?)! Thanks for all kind words today.

    Dalillama
    You said it here: “There’s always seemed to be something that people are doing, or knowing, that allows them to start conversations, make connections, etc. but I’ve never seemed to have it, and I can’t even really work out what it is, let alone why I haven’t got it.” Because my husband is super-social and easily does this, I feel like I stand out even more. Because I just don’t get how he does it. I’m crap at small talk. Total crap. (I don’t like small-talk.)
    Watching a movie would be a great way to put it.

  148. DLC says

    Joe. good luck moving.
    Jadehawk : sorry you’re having such a rough time.

    Re: old timers: I had a birthday recently and so my insurance reminded me to get a colonoscopy. Drinking 4L of PEG in 2 2L shots is an experience not to be repeated.

  149. says

    DLC:

    Drinking 4L of PEG in 2 2L shots

    Oh, I’ve had to do that before. Fucking awful. As bad as it was, though, it wasn’t as bad as the castor oil in jello water which followed later.

  150. says

    appointment has been rescheduled to a time I can actually show up, which is nice.

    No idea what to do about the test I likely missed, though. And the anxiety over that is making me not able to show up to that class, which is not precisely helpful either.

    wonder if the counseling center would be willing to write me a note or something, confirming that I’m too crazy to be expected to actually show up regularly, and therefore it’s totally not my fault i failed the test by failing to show up for it? [/wishful thinking]

    fuck, i so wish i’d caught on to this problem sooner; now it’s having serious consequences, and i can’t even get them medically excused, probably :-(

  151. rq says

    Jadehawk
    I’m glad the appointment has been re-scheduled for you.
    :( about the test. Maybe if you get a note, you can get the test re-scheduled for you. I don’t know if the teacher is the understanding kind?

  152. ednaz says

    Jadehawk – I wish I were near you. I would call your teacher and find out your options for you. *hugs*

  153. says

    Jadehawk
    IME, that’s often mostly up to the individual prof. If your instructor is understanding about mental illness, you might well be able to re-take the exam at a later date, especially if the counselor will write you a note. There may be a re-testing fee, though. There was when I was at university.

  154. ednaz says

    I wish I were near.

    I would go for a walk. I would go to a movie. I would go shopping. I would go to lunch (even though I feel self-conscious eating in front of others). I would start a conversation.

    I would do all of these things with The Lounge members who have been so kind to me.

    Big hugs and so much love to those who feel alone. <3

  155. birgerjohansson says

    How to end a Fox News interview abruptly: Call Fox ‘a wing of the Republican Party’http://mediamatters.org/embed/static/clips/2012/11/26/27873/fnc-hn-20121126-ricksfoxbenghazi

  156. says

    Jadehawk,

    From personal experience: yes, you can get that note. And generally, teachers accept that note. Hell, I once got that note in the Marine Corps, and they had to accept it.

  157. says

    ednaz,

    You sound like OK folks in my book. :)

    Lounge lizards and Hordelings and various and sundry. I didn’t do any packing today. I woke up at 5AM and my office was trashed because somehow one of the cats figured out how to open the door, and one of them was fighting Office Cat while the Boobster ate all of the food. Spent the morning trying to get my money back from Movers #1 and trying to reserve Movers #2 on a few days notice.

    Still no bonus check, but my wife signed the lease today so I have a place to send my stuff and end my wonderful cool driving experience. Also got cat sedative, enough to cover three of the four cats for most of the drive. The fourth cat is actually pretty fucking mellow.

  158. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    ednaz:
    I totally know what you mean. I would hang out with you folks too.

    ****

    rq:
    I find small talk irritating. When I speak, I like to have a point. I want to convey something to others. Talk for the sake of talk typically gets on my nerves. To be sure, yes, I’ve engaged in small talk, but it is not something I like doing.
    (I think situations like a date are different. Small talk is part of getting to know about a person. Of course, that gives the conversation a purpose, which to my mind makes it NOT small talk so that was a pointless caveat on my part…SIGH)

  159. says

    Good evening

    OK, so, I found out which course I’m in.
    Turns out my confusion stemmed from the fact that the Romanistik faculty does things a little differently and in the place where the other faculties put the “Course of study” (which simply is a date) they put another date.
    So, everything is fine…

    Beatrice
    ((Hugs))

    Jadehawk
    I’m glad they could re-schedule your appointment. I know the place you’re in and it isn’t a good one.
    Can you shoot the lecturer a mail?
    I’m much better at writing mails than talking to people. It might still take me a week or two, but that’s better than never.

  160. says

    So… no bonus check until Friday. FUCK!!!

    Well, we could have the check tomorrow, taxed at 42%. Or wait until Friday and it be taxed at whatever the regular rate is, closer to 25-30%. The difference is roughly $1000. I guess I’m going to bounce a couple of checks(overdraw the debit card) this week to get what I need to finish packing. I’d rather spend $100 on overdraft charges than pay $1000 in extra taxes.

  161. birgerjohansson says

    Bruce Bartlett’s mini- autobiography:

    ” Revenge of the Reality-Based Community” http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revenge-of-the-reality-based-community/

    Excerpt:
    “The final line for me to cross in complete alienation from the right was my recognition that Obama is not a leftist. In fact, he’s barely a liberal—and only because the political spectrum has moved so far to the right that moderate Republicans from the past are now considered hardcore leftists by right-wing standards today. Viewed in historical context, I see Obama as actually being on the center-right.

    At this point, I lost every last friend I had on the right. Some have been known to pass me in silence at the supermarket or even to cross the street when they see me coming. People who were as close to me as brothers and sisters have disowned me.”

    Logical. The one Republican whose predictions turn out correctly is shunned because he has dared notice the conservative Emperor is naked.

  162. says

    Can you shoot the lecturer a mail?

    theoretically yes, practically it won’t happen, because how no matter how I phrase it, it’ll amount to “hey, did we have a test last tuesday? if so, can I get a redo? no, i don’t have a doctor’s note, and but can I have the redo anyway?”

  163. says

    extra special bonus for basically having missed all classes adjacent to the thanksgiving long weekend, which does not at all look suspiciously like good, old-fashioned skipping

    *sigh*

  164. says

    birgerjohansson,

    You know what I love about Bruce Bartlett? He’s 110% committed to being a lying right-wing hack… and even HE can’t go along with the current party. He brags about his dishonest book about how the Democrats are a racist party because of what the racists in the party did before the 1960s, and ignores that the racists defected as a group to the Republican party and became its base.

  165. says

    plus, the reason I don’t know if I can get a note is that I’ve so far only had the “initial screening” session, so they might not be willing to write a note excusing missing an exam to a person they’ve talked to once, for just under an hour

  166. says

    can you not talk with a school counselor

    I’m trying, but I don’t have my first appointment with them (not counting the initial screening) until wednesday

  167. rq says

    ednaz
    We can drink soup out of mugs if that makes you more comfortable.
    Because, yes, I would hang out with the Lounge lizards (to use Joe’s term) here.

    Improbable Joe
    Cats. Just cats.
    I will also hold some thumbs for your check and also for the movers to get some sense and give the money back. Because this long-distance superstition shit really works, right.

    Tony
    I agree re: small-talk. On dates is ok. What I hate is the forced aspect in family settings – you know, talk to your aunt or she’ll think you hate her, so it’s always the weather or the neighbours. ANd I hate the other kind of family setting, where I have no clue what the going gossip is (which, generally, is terrible any way you look at it), and I just don’t have anything to add, so I look anti-social. Oh no.
    At parties, I just don’t know how to start a conversation, so I feel out of place, even though I’m quite talkative once approached (if I want to be approached). Yeah, I’m that kind of a person.
    But it’s mostly irritating, the small-talk, because apparently that’s what makes the social world go around. *shrug* Ah well, when you and I hang out, we can definitely talk about deep, significant stuff like peas and horses.

    Jadehawk
    At least ask the counsellor… At least ask. It’s got to count for something. And maybe if you (feel like) explain(ing) that you’re in the process of getting diagnosed, they’ll be understanding, too? Because the process of starting to get help is extremely stressful, too… Try?

  168. rq says

    PS Jadehawk that last little bit was meant as ‘If you feel like explaining to the professor‘, even if you only can do that/get a note after Wednesday.
    Better than losing that class completely…?

  169. dianne says

    If I were a hacker bent on getting into, well, anywhere at all, I’d try the password “fuckyouIT” in various combinations of capitalization along with various random letters and numbers. That is, however, not the password I chose after a long and frustrating search for what exactly was wrong with my password. But I considered it. Often.

  170. rq says

    In any case the computer ruined that last paragraph by turning off on its own, which means I’m going to bed.
    Good night to all, hugs all around to those in need/want, and the holding of all possible thumbs for those requiring moral support at a distance!

  171. Rey Fox says

    I’ve tried convincing myself that “I don’t need anyone”, but I do, I really do. I like enjoying beautiful or happy things by myself, for a while. Take it all in without interruption. But I also like to be able to share them.

    Yep.

    At parties, I just don’t know how to start a conversation, so I feel out of place, even though I’m quite talkative once approached (if I want to be approached).

    Yep yep.

    I’d go on about living alone and traveling alone and being alone, but I’m a bit too down right now with project stress and perhaps some of the loneliness. I’m thinking of seeing a movie now, I don’t really mind doing that alone.

  172. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    kristinc:
    But theres no drama at Pharyngula. Who would you want to killfile?

  173. jose says

    Any thoughts on Mere Christianity by Lewis?

    I got it because I learned it begins with a defense of an objective moral law. But the arguments for it are appalling, not far from inferring Thor from lightning storms. Is this book prestigious and respected? I know the author is.

  174. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    So, I just received a notice from the IRS claiming I owe $720 in back self-employment taxes for 2010 and $41 in interested, on the following basis:

    “We have no information to show.”

    I’ve never sympathized with people who refer to them as a criminal organization until this moment. >.>

  175. carlie says

    Jadehawk – I know it’s almost impossible to do right now, but the sooner the better when it comes to the instructor. Some will be assholes, but most won’t be, and as long as they feel like they’re being kept in the loop they’ll be more likely to give you extensions and stuff. Doing it by email would be fine. Having your boyfriend write it from your email account so it looks like it comes from you would be fine. It just has to say that you’ve had some significant personal issues over the last month, you’re working with the counseling center and hope to have some official paperwork soon, and in the meantime you want to keep the instructor apprised that you’re trying to complete the semester as best you can and ask if they’d be willing to work with you on making up your missed assignments.

    A truly decent one will say yes, a halfway decent one will say yes but ask more probing questions about what’s wrong, which you can deflect and they probably won’t probe more. Any official paperwork you get from the counseling center won’t be detailed in what the issues are, it will just say that in their professional opinion you have a valid reason for asking for accommodations.

    In happy things, this is a 15 minute Brett Domino Trio Christmas medly. I do not know many of the songs at the beginning (the more recent pop ones). But something about the way he sings Gaudete made me snort-laugh.

  176. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Also, on the Christmas discussion: my parents would occasionally tag the metal cds I requested “To Alex from Satan.” :D

  177. says

    jose,

    Yeah, Christians take that Mere Christianity bullshit VERY seriously. They don’t really have any good arguments at all, so their next safest bet is old bad arguments from more widely-known sources. And don’t be fooled by anyone who uses the term “sophisticated theology” either, because that just means “the same bad arguments in ‘sophisticated’ language.”

  178. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Personally, I cannot decide between the ‘black hole swallowing the Earth’ or the ‘poles shifting’…

    Isn’t someone here in Poland?

    See how many people you can get to hit “SHIFT” around midnight :D

  179. anteprepro says

    Any thoughts on Mere Christianity by Lewis?

    I got it because I learned it begins with a defense of an objective moral law. But the arguments for it are appalling, not far from inferring Thor from lightning storms. Is this book prestigious and respected? I know the author is.

    It’s standard sophisticated theology. Which is to say, it is well-respected and the best of the best arguments for Jesus, until you actually read it. Then it is nothing special, look over there for the REAL good stuff. To actually answer your question, wikipedia says:

    In 2006, Mere Christianity was placed third in Christianity Today’s list of the most influential books amongst evangelicals since 1945.[6] The title has influenced Touchstone Magazine: A Journal of Mere Christianity and William Dembski’s book Mere Creation. Charles Colson’s conversion to Christianity resulted from his reading this book, as did the conversions of Francis Collins, Josh Caterer and the philosopher C. E. M. Joad.

    To say nothing of it being the source of Lewis’s most famous apologetic argument, the Lewis Trilemma. It has had a rather large impact, though the more intelligent Christians are rightfully embarrassed by the dreck and try to keep their distance.

  180. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Any thoughts on Mere Christianity by Lewis?

    I got it because I learned it begins with a defense of an objective moral law. But the arguments for it are appalling, not far from inferring Thor from lightning storms. Is this book prestigious and respected? I know the author is.

    Once upon a time I was in Junior High and interested in dating a Conservative Christian girl.

    (I got better.)

    I was invited to their house, somehow, and she asked me while I was there if I was familiar with C.S. Lewis. I confused the name with Lewis Carroll and asked “isn’t he famous as a writer of nonsense?” She wasn’t amused.

    I was, years later, when I realized how right I’d been after all.

  181. anteprepro says

    I was invited to their house, somehow, and she asked me while I was there if I was familiar with C.S. Lewis

    Once, I had the privilege of hearing the devout, college-aged children of a pastor talking about how they heard C.S. Lewis was great and all, but they hadn’t actually read any of his apologetics and should probably get around to it. The even more devout adults pretty much were in the same boat. It makes me wonder how many “this book will TOTALLY prove Christianity to you non-believers” recommendations are by people who haven’t so much as skimmed the first chapter, and are just relying on the hype being accurate. Though it hardly matters, since Christians read apologetics differently from anyone who bothers to look at the arguments with any amount of rigor. Their assessments of quality for arguments on behalf of Christianity simply can’t be trusted to be accurate, even if they have actually bothered to even assess the quality themselves in the first-place.

  182. mildlymagnificent says

    Tony. The kids gradually worked out that what santa did had a very, very strong resemblance to what we, mainly me really, did for other special times. The Easter Bunny at our house used to have tiny eggs tied on to branches in the trees and shrubs outside as well as thrown randomly under various bits of furniture, so easter egg hunts might not finish for days. I always did super decorated cakes for birthdays.

    And for xmas – the trees were out.stand.ing. I’d grown up with a small artificial tree which *needed* covering up with tinsel and baubles. So my kids grew up in a house with 12 foot ceilings and huge real trees to match, also completely, entirely, gaudily, extravagantly covered with baubles, tinsel and all other sparkly gee-gaws I could find. They shifted quite comfortably from xmas, easter, birthdays at our house are done the same way, to our mum and dad make it that way. They also had the advantage of knowing that santa is only for little kids. When you grow up you only get stuff from other people, so abandoning santa is part of that very desirable more grown up status. Helps to offset the letting go of a lovely fantasy thing that kids have to do all the time as they grow. Getting them to act as santa’s elves on xmas day when they’re little is also laying the groundwork for moving on.

    (Of course, I was still doing silly, jokey santa sacks when they were near 20.)

  183. says

    A couple of years ago I listened to a Christian give a speech about apologetics and how being a Christian was intellectually valid, and after I asked her if she thought anything she said would convince someone who didn’t already believe the same as her. She didn’t have a real answer, except to say that her goal was to prevent Christians from thinking that they needed to consider other viewpoints… or evidence, or reality.

  184. anteprepro says

    She didn’t have a real answer, except to say that her goal was to prevent Christians from thinking that they needed to consider other viewpoints… or evidence, or reality.

    This is commonly said of apologetics, but I also think apologetics also serve to intimidate non-believers. Baffle them with bullshit, put on airs. Get the non-Christians who don’t know any better to be shamed into accepting Christianity, because it seems like a smart thing that smart people believe in and they can’t put in the effort or find the resources to realize that everything that makes Christianity seem smart is bunk. Apologetics keep Christians complacent and unreflective, while trying to trick non-Christians into just accepting Christianity, because it is less mental effort than trying to counter the barrage of culturally-respected, frequently repeated bullshit.

  185. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Lewis’ books are pretty run-of-the-mill Christian apologetics. I do have to admit that he does a not-to-bad job (for what it is) of tackling theodicy in The Problem of Pain. Also, The Screwtape Letters is fall-out-of-your-seat hilarious.

    Lewis, for all that he had a way with words, was a stuck-up prat who had issues with anyone who wasn’t a het cis white Anglo Christian male. Look up his relationship with his stepsons, if you want to be horrified.

  186. mildlymagnificent says

    One thing that occurs to me about my family. Both our kids were very imaginative. My husband and my mother had always “blamed” their own childhood, make up stories for your own entertainment, behaviour on being an only child. Both of mine did that ‘stage director/dramatist’ thing all on their own despite having a sibling fairly close in age. We also read to them – a lot – and they were both avid readers and story-tellers.

    Being accustomed to the notion of things being either entirely made up or, not as they first seem, as a story device might help kids sort out fantasies or stories told for their benefit and enjoyment on the larger, adults all in it together, scale.

    Though I have to say dashing outside after a couple of hours sleep to empty out the forgotten water bucket left for the reindeer (without leaving a telltale damp mark anywhere) is way beyond the call of parental duty. Especially when you had already dutifully chomped down the accompanying carrots.

  187. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Side rant: I am hereby giving Pandora the side-eye for listing “The Dance of the Sugarplum Fairies” as a Christmas hymn.

  188. ednaz says

    midlymagnificent –

    You had me at

    without leaving a telltale damp mark anywhere

    but this

    Especially when you had already dutifully chomped down the accompanying carrots.

    just slayed me!!

    : D : D : D

  189. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Azkyroth:
    Phew. None of those are offensive euphemisms for vagina. I was worried for a second. ::eyeroll::

  190. Menyambal --- in flagrante delicto says

    Speaking of offensive language: The foul-mouthed teen with the knows-everything attitude completely failed to get a Uranus/your-anus joke/pun. Just sat there as it went by, and started in with the self-aggrandizement as soon as a word could be got in edgewise. The adult involved managed to keep a straight face—I was out of sight, fortunately.

  191. F [disappearing] says

    rq

    It’s raining kittens at the moment. I blame it on you.

    That works on so many levels, I cannot begin to tell you. Go right ahead.

    Jadehawk

    Jadehawk has a quite sufficient number of cats already

    Excellent! You are already well covered then. I don’t mean to wish additional cats at you, I’m running that program myself, right now. (But they can be cats of the mind, too. Things that provide the good things that cats do for people who love cats.)

    Janine

    Kids love them!

    Women want to be with them. Men want to be them. No one can get enough!

    Esteleth

    Spilt DMSO on my (gloved) hands.

    Gakk. Spluh!

    And this song came on

    I don’t even wanna – oh, gakk spluh.

    Improbable Joe

    I had to book a SECOND set of movers because the first set never called me back or answered any emails and apparently don’t exist.

    The hell?

    Janine

    Japanese vampire with goatse hairdo.

    OK! At least the goatse not on fire.

    cicely

    I used to have a cat named Arioch. :)

    Since Arioch was a Lord of Chaos, and cats as a species, in my opinion, align decisively chaotic, it seemed appropriate.

    All your blood and souls belong to cats.

    Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞

    If women are not women anymore, what the heck are they (that sounds like the lead in to a joke)?

    I remember when men were men and women were trains.
    And I remember when men were trains.

    Ing

    Womyn is trying to learn VOTING. But Womyn already knows 4 moves! Delete a move to make room for VOTING

    NON-TRADITIONAL!

    Janine

    The party’s over before it begun.
    Alas, poor Andrew W.K.

    What. The. Fuck.

    Maybe partying will help.

    As always, you win. Many internets, a fistful of institutes, and cats.

    Beatrice, rq, Richard Austin

    Yeah, I hear you. Even from the back of my cave. I hear you.

    Menyambal @ 238

    Ha! Yes! (I don’t mean that to sound happy and ecstatic, although maybe it is a bit, as is sometimes the manner of sudden recognition.)

    Caine

    Well, well, Stedman’s disclaimer in Faitheist is certainly interesting.

    Which is odd, because that adjective describes a condition exactly opposite of Stedman himself.

    Jadehawk @263

    Best wishes. I know I failed spectacularly over less. I think you’re better than I.

    Azkyroth

    So, I just received a notice from the IRS claiming I owe $720 in back self-employment taxes for 2010 and $41 in interested, on the following basis:

    “We have no information to show.”

    Asshats. I once was tracked to another state after three years by a local tax agency for 42 cents. And I wonder how much that cost them. (Just mailing it was beyond my tax bill.)

    Owlmirror

    Heh, Wow. But you didn’t just say “IP thief”, did you? ;)

  192. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Krasnaya Koshka, Ing, Jadehawk, Carlie, irisvanderpluym – *hugs*

    Alexander the Good Enough – Welcome!

  193. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    chigau – Nice to see you too.

    I’m finally emerging from a three-week-long migraine cycle and can think again, so there is much cause for rejoicing at the moment. Also, I’m threadrupt for the last several threads, with the exception of a largely cursory review of the current one. I will press onward from here. It’s the only way to go. :D

  194. mildlymagnificent says

    Well it’s good evening mealtime here.

    All very happy, it only got to 29 today, and they’ve already lowered tomorrow’s forecast to 37 so it’s all good. (But I’m just as happy we have leftover risotto that only needs a coupla minutes in the microwave to serve – the west facing kitchen gets a bit warm on a hot day.)

  195. Crudely Wrott says

    /pops in threadrupt/

    In the off chance that no one has mentioned this, I recommend Lawrence O’Donnell’s “Last Word” broadcast from last night concerning the ability of atheists to be thankful and feel a special warm glow at this time of the year.

    Asking, “Who is more Christ-like, Pat Robertson or Ricky Gervais?”, the answer is clearly shown.

    Linky is: http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/26/happy-atheist-ricky-gervais-rewrites-pat-robertson/

    The sentiment in Ricky’s statements hit close to home for me. Next week will mark two years since my mother, Helen, died. I brought my sorrow here to this forum and received a double measure of compassion and comfort. I remain, and shall remain, so very grateful for that.

    /goes to top of comments to try to catch up/

  196. rq says

    mildlymagnificent
    Only 29? :)
    (I remember that one Christmas in Adelaide with dad’s family, where a dry 37 felt wonderful. And then we went to Sydney…)

    +++

    Today got off to a great start by nearly (key word: nearly) stepping into cat vomit beside the bed.
    Then got word from work about the new CODIS program workshop in January – something to look forward to, especially since I have been (unofficially) made language liaison with the Americans coming! Yay! *does a little dance*

    Also remembered one of the brothers coming here for Christmas. Relief!

  197. says

    HI there
    So, back from college and dentist.
    Root canal episode #4684681. Let’s hope it lasts this time…

    beatrice
    I know what you mean with friendships drifting apart after college. Actually, the reason why I still have friends is that they#re willing to put up with my family and come to visit me.

    Jadehawk
    What carlie said.
    The thing about “Schrödinger’s lecturer” is that you automatically fear the worst case to be true and don’t want to know. That’s at least my reaction (go home, puke, curl up under your blanket, don’t leave the house).
    (((hugs)))

    Azkyroth
    Well, my parents once got a “you owe us 2.000€ taxes. We made that number up because we lost your tax declaration. We will deny we ever had it until you can prove otherwise.”

    +++
    Also, dear polyamourists:
    If you want broader acceptance and tolerance it’s a bad marketing-startegy to declare all non-polyamourists to be unhappy and dishonest and fake in their relationships.
    Here’s a hint: they’Re the majority, they gots the privilege and if they think you’re just a bunch of assholes they won’t give a shit about you.

    +++
    And I need a nap now.

  198. John Morales says

    Cicely:

    Since Arioch was a Lord of Chaos, and cats as a species, in my opinion, align decisively chaotic, it seemed appropriate.

    Meerclar.

  199. rq says

    Giliell
    I hope the tooth sticks this time!!
    Tooth repair is one of my biggest fears, because I’ve never had any. And all I hear are horror stories, especially from the Husband, coming back from local anasthesia, drooling all over the place…

    re: poly-amorists
    Context? (Just wondering, because I’ve met a couple, and they never seemed too pushy about their views – total sample size of two, so I’m curious about what others may be like…)

  200. rq says

    John Morales
    I know for me personally I prefer not to divide my attentions.
    I did try it, when I was younger, but it didn’t work for me – just didn’t like it, no jealousy involved. I found it difficult to balance everything out without feeling guilty that I was paying more attention to one or the other.
    Also, I don’t have issues with pre-agreed open relationships, as long as that is stated up front and I’m ok with it, going into the relationship (or if it is discussed openly in the course of a relationship). But if I’ve agreed to be exclusive with someone, and they’ve agreed to the same, then it’s just cheating, and I don’t deal well with that.

    And I have to say, being exclusive is quite good enough for me, in many, many, many awesome ways. ;)

  201. Dhorvath, OM says

    As actual marketing, it’s gonna do a better job of hooking the insecure and unhappy, which everyone knows is a great base for any stable healthy relationship. Still, I don’t know who said what, but I am sure they weren’t speaking for everyone poly.

  202. John Morales says

    rq, I get you.

    (I see nothing wrong with polyamory, anymore than with gayness or bisexuality or asexuality; different strokes for different folks — but I do think honesty within relationships is a good thing, because its lack can cause needless angst and suffering)

  203. says

    re: polyamourists
    It was just a poster in college which said “Polyamoury: For real and honest lives and relationships”.
    Given that they have zilch power over me and my relationship, even this reaction is a bit too much, but really, can they be a bit more stuck-up and arrogant?
    *shrug* In the end, it ain’t going to hurt me.

  204. rq says

    Giliell
    Yeah, that’s a bit overboard. I don’t know if that’s the actual message they’re trying to get across (that monoamorous people are unreal and dishonest), but it’s definitely coming across that way.
    And yeah, they probably could be more stuck-up and arrogant. :P Not that they need to be.

  205. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    I’m under the influence of holiday and work-induced threadruptiness. But I want to say hello. I ctrl-f’d for “Ogvorbis” to see if he had resurfaced, and am joining you all in being perturbed that he has not. After the vegan thread, it’s kind of worrying (not that you all don’t know that).

    Hugs for everyone else who needs them, and now I’ll try to catch up.

  206. Crudely Wrott says

    @ theophontes, #325:
    Thanks for the hugs. Some back at you.

    Fell asleep without catching up much but I do hope that Improbable Joe’s move goes smoothly and he and critters arrive at destination un-frazzled. Happy trails, Joe! (Have you any kitty tranks? I had to purchase same for two thousand mile move with Big Guy some years ago. That kitty was so grateful. ;^>)

    I hope that as many of the Horde as possible will follow the link I posted @322. O’Donnell’s report is a truly epic smack down. Guaranteed to bring a smile to each and every godless heart especially at this wonderful time of year. Please, check it out.

  207. says

    In a past Moment of Mormon Madness, Brigham Young University invited Dick Cheney to be the commencement speaker in April, 2007. A group of BYU students jumped through the considerable hoops required to organize a protest, a protest limited in time and limited in space.

    Those students learned what BYU administrators think of them, and they received a full dose of slap-down. It was quite a revelation, but not of the mormon prophet variety.

    Although this is old news, I think Romney’s recent campaign for president makes it fresh again. The video demonstrates what mormon culture is, what the patriarchy of the mormon culture is really like. Mr. Assholiness holding the Q&A for students is particularly revealing.
    YouTube link.

    The video is stomach-churning, especially the Q&A portion.

    Yes, the LDS Leaders really mean it when they say, “”It is wrong to criticize church leaders even if the criticism is true.” (Apostle Dallin Oaks)

    The protests were covered in The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/us/11byu.html

    After viewing the short video documentary, I don’t think the LDS Church & BYU administrators came off looking as badly as they should have in the national press.

  208. Dhorvath, OM says

    In that case, I see some pushing back by the poster’s designer. ‘Not real’ and ‘lying to yourself’ or variants of those ideas are used to dismiss poly people as playing at a game, not enjoying fruitful interpersonal relationships. Could they have phrased it better? I would have preferred something along the lines of: Polyamoury: It’s real relationships too. For some, it’s the only way to be honest. I recognize that is dramatically different, but it’s hard for me to see saying that with fewer words and not being misunderstood.

  209. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Thanks, rq, it’ great to be back (even if today will be busy and keep me from the Lounge more than I’d like). Holidays were kind, got lots of the most important family (Mom) and got some more good (and by good, I mean, awful/eye-rolling) stories about the less-great family. My sweet aunt for whom I am named taught me to piece a quilt and showed me she had bought a bunch of fabric that reminded her of me. So now I’m making a quilt :)

    I’m sure you’ve already said how your holidays were, in the parts Ive missed, but how is your post-holiday week going? :)

  210. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Here’s a hint: they’Re the majority, they gots the privilege and if they think you’re just a bunch of assholes they won’t give a shit about you.

    You know, it’s not like this argument is accepted for any other group

  211. says

    Dhorvath
    That’s why I said marketing. Most people haven’t ever heard of polys, let alone prejudices. Also, the “for” really makes a bad case. If you think that to say certain things about relationships is wrong and hurtful, just don’t do it.

  212. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    I am a happy music geek today.

    As you may or may not know, Big Dipper was/is one of my very favorite bands. Crunchy punk/power pop with very tongue in cheek lyrics, it was fucking aural manna for me. Heavens and Craps were on heavy rotation for years.

    Alas, they were one of the many causalities of the major labels in the early nineties, put out a rushed sub-par album and faded away.

    Merge put out a collection of their career (Without the major label Slam) in 2008. (One of the last CDs I have bought. I am so modern!) This created enough interest that most of the old band made a new album, Crashes On The Platinum Planet. I just listened. More of that off kilter crunchy power pop that I loved. More silly and strange lyrics. I like. I have to give it more time to see if it ends being a keeper like their first two albums.

    But damn! This makes me happy!

    Robert Pollard

    Yes. It is about the man from Guided By Voices. And about writing songs. And about Macca. And about being a music geek making music for music geeks.

    *squee*

    I am sure that this will be ignored by the general population. But my little corner of the world is rocked! We middle aged music geeks will not be denied.

  213. says

    @ Gilliell
    That poster was definitely poorly phrased. I think that Dhorvath #340 has a part of what they were trying to get across, but there’s definitely also a tendency among poly folks to generalize that way about monogamous types. It’s very much a stereotype that doesn’t apply to all monogamous couples, but after you watch the same people crash ‘monogamous’ relationship after relationship because they can’t keep their pants zipped, one starts to think that maybe they’re just not really suited for monogamy, whatever they claim, and they’re doing themselves and their partners a disservice by pretending they are. It’s a short step from there to assuming things about relationships you don’t know the insides of, and thus that all monogamous people are like that, and some just hide it better. I realize that it’s not true, and that many people are in fact perfectly happy, but the availability heuristic is a bastard that way; it’s far too easy to generalize based on a few examples if you don’t watch yourself.

  214. says

    It was just a poster in college which said “Polyamoury: For real and honest lives and relationships”.

    Feh. There’s nothing superior in any sort of romantic arrangement except as it pertains to the specific people involved.

    My partner and I are “real and honest” with one another. Whether or not we also have relationships with other people has nothing to do with it.

  215. says

    Giliell,

    A lot of subcultures have a large contingent of that sort of “everyone is really like us, if they were only more open-minded” assholes. I’ve seen it in the BDSM community, there’s a segment of feminists that at some point declared that women should reject “traditional roles” even if they feel happy and comfortable in them, and so on.

    I’ve usually broken my judgment of the sexual stuff into three broad categories:

    1) Probably cool for most people in most situations, sort of the bell curve deal.

    2) Probably cool for some people in some situations, context dependent. If I wouldn’t do it, it doesn’t mean no one should.

    3) Pretty much bad for all people in all situations, safe to assume the worst.

    Poly relationships fall into that second category. Nothing wrong if it works for you, nothing wrong if it doesn’t. I’m one of those people for whom it doesn’t work, because I find myself stretched too thin emotionally, which drives the jealousy.

  216. Tony ∞The Trolling Queer Duck∞ says

    Wait… What time is it? 11:00 am? And I awoke at 9:00am? The hell is wrong with me? *I do not do mornings*
    They are beneath me.
    Wait, I ate breakfast too?
    Who am I and what happened to the real me?
    [Feeling slightly existentially crisisey ain’t he?]
    (Nosiree, he is not speaking in third person. That Tony guy is vewwy vewwy strange.)

  217. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Thanks Tony! :D

    For the Lounge’s amusement, the first installment of Cringe-Worthy Regressive Relative Holiday Tales, at which to point and laugh:

    Stepmom: “Some people just vote based on color.”
    Me: *innocent face* “You mean red or blue?”
    Dad: “No, black or white.”
    Me: “You’re right, some racists just voted for Romney because he’s white.”
    Dad: “Yeah and some black people just voted for Obama because he’s black.”
    Me: “Guess which one I think is a problem.”

    *backtowork*

  218. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    (that is to say, point and laugh at the people and their recitation of FauxNews talking points, not the awfulness contained therein and its pervasiveness in society)

    /disclaimer

  219. says

    Janine #346:

    Thanks for the music suggestions. I’d not heard Big Dipper before, but I am a huge power pop fan. I’m glad there’s still stuff out there I’ve not heard before.

    They are on their way to my front door.

  220. Dhorvath, OM says

    Giliell,
    I don’t follow why the for is bad formulation. It’s not immediately apparent to people in general that these things are needs for some set of people, making that explicit is a fair way to change that misconception.

  221. rq says

    Portia
    Not much of a post-holiday week, since I’m not a celebrator of American Thanksgiving (and the Canadian one was in October), and also our local American ex-pat, who usually does a giant Thanksgiving extravaganza, was away in the States this year, so I’ve just been lamenting (to myself) the lack of turkey goodness and everyone else’s habit of posting really, really deliciously delectable recipes here. Then I steal them for future reference. :)

    Tony
    Check the mirror. It might not be you.

  222. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq

    Right, sorry for the USA-centric moment of memory failure. :) I am also a collector of delectable recipes. Which is rather funny, since I usually end up disregarding any recipe I use and doing whatever I want anyway. :)

  223. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    NigeltheBold, I have a simple solution; find a copy of Supercluster.

    If you have Spotify, you can stream it there. Not sure about other streaming services.

  224. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    rq,
    I got it all just fine. I sometimes make errors here and then remind myself it’s a conversation, not a dissertation.

  225. says

    Janine:

    Done, ordered from Amazon. I think I am a happy camper, considering how long it’s been since I’ve been pointed to new music out of the blue like this. The last time it happened, I was suggested Nevada Bachelors and Neutral Milk Hotel, both two of my long-term favorites. Oh except A.J. Milne suggested Agnostic Mountain Gospel Choir more recently, and I really groove on them, too.

  226. Beatrice says

    Janine,

    I very much enjoy your geeking out in this thread. I’ve never even heard of Big Dipper before, but I’m loving the music.

  227. says

    good news: the test wasn’t last tuesday, it will be next tuesday; and I might be able to get a note tomorrow after my appointment

    bad news: i still have to produce (almost from scratch) a workable draft of a paper plus outline for a ppt presentation on the theory of social change as applied to the women’s suffrage movement by 3:30pm today (that’s in 4 hrs). and then I have to give that presentation on thursday. and I’m here talking to y’all instead.

    *panic attack*

    P.S.: no, i can’t postpone any of this, it’s 2 weeks before the end of semester and there simply won’t be any time for me to postpone any of this to

    *back to having panic attack*

  228. Janine: Hallucinating Liar says

    Thanks to Jadehawk, I am having memories of the Midnight Sisters. They called themselves this because they would not write a paper until after midnight, working overnight to write their papers the day it was due.

    Yes, they both graduated.

  229. says

    all my papers are the results of long procrastination followed by a marathon writing session, but there’s last minute, and then there’s last minute; and I don’t usually suffer from writer’s block when i finally sit down to write the paper

  230. Beatrice says

    Jadehawk,

    re. good news: great!

    re. bad news: You still have time to get over the writer’s block and finish the draft. Not a lot of time, but you might surprise yourself in the end. Good thing about writing something at the last minute: your expectations are so low, it is almost certain to turn out better than you expected. If you have something that relaxes you, like a cup of hot chocolate or some little thing like that, make it.

  231. says

    If you have something that relaxes you

    …I’ll fall asleep, since I’ve been up all night, trying to make this paper happen. And the longer it takes, the less I can think… etc.

  232. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Sophomore year I went from choosing a topic to turning in a 50 page research paper in 6 hours.

    (I got a B+ on it)

  233. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    All your blood and souls belong to cats.

    Indeed they do! And my Bitsy-cat made a withdrawal, in blood, just last night. Of course, she was only clawing my shin in an attempt to get my attention…which had momentarily wandered to the computer….

    Hekuni Cat!
    *pouncehug*
    Three…weeks…of migraines????
    *shudder*

    A *wave* and *hugs* for Crudely Wrott.

    rq: Ah, the joys of not stepping in cat barf! I’ve never been able to decide whether it’s worse to step in it while it’s warm, and extra gooooshy, or cold and soft-set.

    Our Pixel-cat has this so charming quirk; she’ll start to barf, apparently become alarmed by the barfing, and try to run away from the act of barfing, thereby leaving a sort of cometary tail of cat barf between her starting point, and the final punctuation, as it were. The up side, of course, is that once you’ve trod in it in one spot, 1) you know to keep your eyes open for the rest (sparing yourself additional nasty surprises), and 2) your eyes are now wide open…even if it’s the middle of the night. Nothing quite like stepping in cat barf to bring you to immediate wakefulness!

    John Morales:

    Meerclar.

    Indeed. But though Meerclar is a recognised god, she is specifically one of the Beast Lords, Patron of Cats, and not a Lord of Chaos. And when naming Lords of Chaoscats in a male/female pair, Arioch and Xiombarg are a much more obvious choice. Unfortunately, we didn’t have Xiombarg for very long.

    Re polyamory: I am a woman of limited means. I can only pay so much attention.
    ;)

    *hug* for Portia.

    kristinc: *high five*

    *hug* for Jadehawk.
    -

  234. Beatrice says

    Ah. Well, in any case good luck with it. You’ll manage to come up with something I’m sure.

    You’ve got cheerleaders here.

  235. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    cicely

    Thanks :) hug back

    Jadehawk

    Good luck!

    kristinc

    That’s really awesome!

    -===-

    I’ma get some lunch…and resist the urge to nap before a client comes for her appointment.

  236. rq says

    music
    Thanks to everyone’s suggestions – I’ll be slowly going through them this evening as I finish up some more translating (good music always welcome).

    Portia
    Ha, cooking by improvisation is the way to go. But sometimes recipes can be a good inspiration.
    Also, have a good lunch!
    And I’m ok with grammar mistakes here and there, but I hate reading run-on sentences and I hate writing them but sometimes one or two just slip through the cracks…

    Jadehawk
    Good luck!

    cicely
    Laughs for comet-cat. :P Gross. Ours usually does it in two tries – first time gets a bunch of crud out, usually somewhere visible, where he gets all nervous and runs away; second batch is usually a bit more liquidy (thus more difficult to see against wood floor) and somewhere a bit more obscure.
    But yes. Once awake, it’s worth finding it all, just in case.

  237. ImaginesABeach says

    Jadehawk – I’m sure this isn’t helpful, but once you start writing, you are brilliant.

  238. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Alex Trebek:
    “He is a sexist asshat who thinks women do not belong on the front lines of battle because they makeadebabies”
    Me:
    “Who is noelplum99?”

    Alex Trebek:
    “Ladies and gentlemen, the winner and champion of JEOPARDY: MASTER OF THE OBVIOUS is the artist formerly known as Queer Duck!”
    “Your prize is an autographed hand made tee shirt by PHARYNGULA regular cicely. This special tee is made of horse hide, is highly durable, unwashable and states: NO JESUS, KNOW PEAS”

  239. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Already have my own POWER POP thankyewvewwymuch. It was part of the package I got with my coronal mass erection award.

  240. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Re:polyamory-
    I cant pay one person to love me, let alone multiple people. Oh, you say this ‘falling in love’ thing is supposed to be free? 37 years of doin’ it wrong…

  241. Portia, sporty and glam, pelted with pastries says

    Client called in sick…so I was going to bake cupcakes for my uncle’s birthday (which i just realized is today) but then I remembered my oven is busted. :(

  242. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    This special tee is made of horse hide, is highly durable, unwashable and states: NO JESUS, KNOWNO PEAS”

    More attention to your spelling/use of homophones in the future, Tony. “Pea-fucker” is such a harsh gibe to leave yourself open to.
    -

  243. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    I like my Bloody Marys with alcohol thanksabunch. No virgin marys here.

  244. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Yeah but to KNOW JESUS =/= KNOW PEACE. so my way works better. Nyah nyah :P

  245. says

    I give up. because my gut hurts like hell, and I’m absolutely refusing to break down crying at the coffee shop.

    I’ll try to stay awake and not-ill enough to sit through the lecture at least, seeing as it’s the last one before finals… but this essay is not gonna happen. fuck if i know what i’ll be presenting on thursday

  246. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    You can contact Audley or Onion Girl, Kristinc. Or I can do it on your behalf if you like. :)

  247. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    Yeah but to KNOW JESUS =/= KNOW PEACE. so my way works better. Nyah nyah :P

    No it doesn’t.

    You are wrong.

    Wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong.

    So very, very wrong.

    *hugs* for Jadehawk.
    -

  248. carlie says

    Jadehawk – at this point in the semester, you’re probably looking at asking for an incomplete. Those are hard to deal with, but still better than zeros. Honest, if you can manage sitting through class do it, and look as obviously sick as you are – don’t try to hide it. After class if you can, let the ninstructor know you’ll be contacting them more about what’s due today soon – if you can, say you don’t have it done for reasons you can’t discuss right now. If yuou can’t, that’s ok, just show up and look like death warmed over. That will plant the seed in the instructor’s head that something is going on, and that will make it easier to bring up later. If they ask you point-blank for the assignment, just say you’ll need to talk to them about it but can’t right now. Any instructor should respect that – if they’ve been doing this any amount of time at all, they can tell real distress.

  249. carlie says

    Jadehawk – and if you can’t handle even going to class today, that’s ok. there’s plenty of time to work it all out. Semesters are just guidelines – lots and lots of people pull work past the end of the semester when they have emergencies, and this is an emergency.

  250. says

    Fuck it. All my moving plans are in the toilet. As of right now, I have no money to pay the movers, no money for gas or a hotel room for at least the first night, and my bank account is $800 in the red. My wife’s bonus check doesn’t come until Friday, along with her paycheck which will all be in an actual paper check which will probably not be processed and in the account until Monday.

    I guess I get to sell some more of my stuff. Fuck it.

  251. says

    Yikes! That sucks, Improbable Joe. That sucks a lot.

    I’ve been there. I hated it. While my condolences won’t get you two coffees and a donut, you have ‘em.

  252. says

    nigelTheBold,

    Thanks, condolences help. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel… apparently also broken glass and nails every step from here to there. I mean, it is seriously ridiculous how close the end of this is, and how many bullshit hurdles keep popping up. Two steps forward, one step back. Uphill in the snow both ways.

  253. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Oh no! And things were going so well!! :( I’m hoping for a last-minute reprieve.

    Jadehawk
    Goodthoughtsgoodthoughtsgoodthoughtsgoodthoughts

  254. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Joe, how much do you need? I could spot a thousand or so for a few days..

  255. says

    Azkyroth… wow, really? Yeah, I would totally appreciate a loan for about 5-7 days if you can spare it? My mail thingy is improbablejoe at the google mail.

  256. says

    Azkyroth:

    Joe, how much do you need? I could spot a thousand or so for a few days..

    That *pop*ing sound you just heard was the sound of my heart growing three sizes.

  257. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Joe, how much do you need? I could spot a thousand or so for a few days..

    That *pop*ing sound you just heard was the sound of my heart growing three sizes.

    Same here. ♥

  258. Esteleth مقدس پنیر اور بسکٹ کے ساتھ says

    Really? I bork my blockquotes that badly? :/

  259. says

    Esteleth,

    At least you got the heart thingy to work.

    Ironically, my wife and I decided to get the bonus on Friday in the first place to SAVE $1000 in taxes, because they tax bonuses at 42% but if they ran it as regular payroll it goes to the lower tax rate. And it is too late to undo it, so fuckity fuck fuck fuckballs.

  260. Beatrice says

    Azkyroth, you are awesome.

    Joe, I hope you two manage to think of a way to do the transfer.

    Good night.

  261. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Azkyroth:
    you are an amazing person
    I tip my hat to you.

  262. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    kristinc:
    Uh, how much time do you have to spare in any given day?
    It can be a task to keep up on here, let alone adding PET to the mix. When I joined earlier this year, it was in the wake of the no holds barred end of moderation PZ is pissed off period. I stayed away from here a good chunk of that time. PET moves at a quick pace as well.

  263. says

    Dalillama,

    We’re working it out. It looks like Western Union is going to be our choice, especially since there’s at least two locations within a mile of me.

  264. opposablethumbs says

    Jadehawk, no matter what happens, at some point you will be able to communicate at least part of what is going on with your health to your tutors/profs and – judging from what people who seem to know the system are saying – there will be a procedure for dealing with students prevented by illness from completing parts of a course. They don’t want to lose students, after all.

    It must be horrendous right now, but please keep breathing and dealing with even the tiniest bit at a time. I’m so sorry you have to cope with this, and I’m really hoping it all eases up on you soon.

    Azkyroth, you and the other Horders who are able to help and do – you are so awesome. Joe, you’ll get there. You will. Only a few more days, and next week you’ll be on the other side.

  265. opposablethumbs says

    I’m really looking forward to reading about when JAL and Little One are safely in a good place …

    And to hearing from Ogvorbis. I guess you didn’t get an answer, Caine? I hope we hear from him soon :(((

  266. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    And to hearing from Ogvorbis. I guess you didn’t get an answer, Caine? I hope we hear from him soon :(((

    I keep having a vague memory of his saying he would be away for a while. Either visiting spawn or celebrating an anniversary.

    Off to cook the pizza and dice up the salad for dinner.

  267. says

    Opposablethumbs:

    I guess you didn’t get an answer, Caine?

    Nope, but I don’t think that’s unusual. I don’t know how much he uses his blog e-address and he’s often gone for large amounts of time, given his work.

  268. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    From the Shades of Grey discussion earlier, I was linked to Jennifer Armintrout’s blog, where I found the following as one of the examples here.

    You notice he quickly discloses information about his past or present or his emotional pain.

    Can someone explain why this is a “warning sign?”

  269. says

    Azkyroth, I think it’s because it can be a way to force intimacy. Opening up in a way that’s not socially appropriate (which, yeah, there isn’t really a bright-line there and I guess it would be context dependent) can make someone feel like they owe you intimacy in return. It’s definitely a tactic that some people use to manipulate.

  270. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    I HATE NESTED COMMENTS WITH A FIERY PASSION EXCEEDING A QUADRILLION EXPLODING STARS.
    Sorry for all caps there. I just dove into a thread at The Atheist Experience and it was maddening trying to follow Rutee, Michaeld, bobo, SallyStrange and others battling against the idiocy of a few anti-feminists.

  271. says

    Azkyroth:

    Can someone explain why this is a “warning sign?”

    I haven’t read that particular mess, but I’d say it’s talking about much more than getting to know you type chat. Generally speaking, it takes time for someone to open up about their past and in particular, emotional pain. In order to talk to someone about emotional pain, it’s usually necessary to trust them. It takes a while to build trust.

    Often times, when someone starts immediately spilling out serious detail in regard to their past, their present and any sort of emotional pain, they have much baggage, usually highly negative baggage, such as being obsessive, possessive, controlling, stalkery, etc.

  272. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Azkyroth:
    I think it is a warning sign when accompanied by other signs. On its own, probably nothing terribly significant.

  273. Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞ says

    Actually, CAINE’s response is probably closer to the truth.

  274. says

    I agree with you too though Tony. Maybe it’s not so much of a giant red flag on its own, but it shouldn’t be viewed as counterbalancing other red flags. It’s not like “Well, he lost his temper easily, but he’s so open about his painful past!” Those two signs that might be moderately iffy on their own are really bad news in conjunction.

  275. says

    Azkyroth,

    Can someone explain why this is a “warning sign?”

    Imagine you’re on a first date. What would your reaction be if the person:

    a) mentioned their parents?
    b) talked half the night about their parents?
    c) invited their parents on the date?

    There’s levels of sharing that is appropriate, borderline, and over the line, depending on the type and level of the relationship. Oddly, sometimes the less-intimate the relationship the more you are allowed to share up to a certain point. But usually when you start dumping all of your crap on a new romantic partner from the outset, it is because you’re planning on using the other person as a reservoir for all of your issues.

  276. says

    kristinc,

    It’s not like “Well, he lost his temper easily, but he’s so open about his painful past!” Those two signs that might be moderately iffy on their own are really bad news in conjunction.

    Right. And while it might sound somewhat unfair to say, people who don’t have their own business worked out to a certain degree simply shouldn’t be in intimate relationships until they do. It is one thing to need to lean on someone occasionally, but it is unfair to use other people to work out your personal issues.

  277. Nutmeg says

    I definitely think very early disclosure of problems is a warning sign. To me, it indicates poor judgment, poor self-control, emotional immaturity, and possibly poor critical thinking skills.

    Example: I went on a first date with a girl this fall. The afternoon before the second date, she emailed that she had a bad haircut and was feeling a little insecure about it, so she would wear a hat. Fine with me – I made a joke about how I would just admire her taste in hats. But she responded with another email about how she was feeling generally insecure and uncertain about things and didn’t know if she wanted to go out that night.

    I wouldn’t mind dealing with a little bit of insecurity in an established relationship, but a big FEELINGSDUMP before we’ve even been on a second date is a bad sign. Since she obviously wanted to cancel the date but didn’t have the guts to call it off herself, I did. I didn’t reschedule.

    Of course, I am a very controlled person, and I might expect a bit too much from my dates in that department. But, as a rule of thumb, I don’t want to hear about your big intense feelings before the fourth date. The bigger and more intense the feelings, the longer you should wait.

  278. says

    Nutmeg:

    I definitely think very early disclosure of problems is a warning sign. To me, it indicates poor judgment, poor self-control, emotional immaturity, and possibly poor critical thinking skills.

    All this ^ in spades. I’ve met people who have, after a brief introductory meeting, started spilling their guts all over the place to me. My instinctive response is run, fast and far away. If nothing else, there’s a level of neediness implied which is fucking scary.

  279. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    I definitely think very early disclosure of problems is a warning sign. To me, it indicates poor judgment, poor self-control, emotional immaturity, and possibly poor critical thinking skills.

    While I understand the sentiment not all early disclosures indicate poor judgement. Back when I was in a bad way oddly enough I was also single. I would disclose just enough to let the person I was dating know where I was at. To do any less would be to misrepresent myself and I don’t think anything good can come of that.

    Now if all the person talks about is their problems, that’s a bigger issue. But a simple heads up shouldn’t be considered too harshly.

  280. says

    FossilFishy,

    I think this bit is the point: “I would disclose just enough to let the person I was dating know where I was at.” It is fair and good to give people a rough outline, but that’s different from a major emotion dump, which is what I think everyone means. Saying “hey, I’ve got this issue and I’m dealing with it but it sometimes can be a problem” is different from spending a whole early date talking about it.

  281. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    [ducks as the point whooshes by overhead]

    Fair enough Joe. I’m skimming quickly here, too quickly apparently.

    How’s the move coming along?

  282. cicely (fair-to-partly-cloudy) says

    I definitely think very early disclosure of problems is a warning sign. To me, it indicates poor judgment, poor self-control, emotional immaturity, and possibly poor critical thinking skills.

    And/or a cold-blooded set-up for emotional manipulation.
    -

  283. says

    FossilFishy,

    Move is not so great- but I’ll get through it. I’m a little sad that I’m not going to have quite as money as I expected. I found an amazing amplifier at an amazing price, and I can’t afford it.

  284. Nutmeg says

    FossilFishy: I agree with you that a simple, casual disclosure of relevant information isn’t necessarily a red flag. I wouldn’t be too put off by someone telling me some things early on. Things like, “My last relationship ended pretty badly, so I want to take it slow” or “I get kind of nervous around new people, so maybe meeting all your friends at once at a giant party next week isn’t a good idea”.

    Everyone draws their own lines for these things. I would probably go with my gut. If I had to think about specifics, I would want early disclosures to be a)relevant, b)delivered calmly, and c)brief outlines, not hour-long therapy sessions. In that case, disclosure could be a sign of good judgment and thoughtfulness.

    (And I have been accused before of being too picky. Of course, that was when I was still trying to date men despite not actually being attracted to them. I’ll have to see if that pattern persists now that I’m dating women.)

  285. says

    It is fair and good to give people a rough outline…

    Somehow this and FF’s has me picturing this skit-comedy type routine, in which a date with absolute and incongruous calm nonchalance begins describing these escalatingly alarming details of their life…

    … and, of course, their companion is likewise completely unfazed:

    ‘Y’know, seriously, Cheryl, there’s this thing I just like to do, toward the end of the first date, if it feels to me like things are clicking, just so, y’know… So people know the way of things with me… This isn’t too soon, no? No… Oh, good… I’m really having fun, too!… Anyway, I figure it’s only fair just to tell people that sometimes, when the moon is full, I wake up in a park somewhere, naked, in the middle of the night, no idea how I got there, and with this awful taste in my mouth… Say… How’s your entrée… That looks good… Can I try some?…’

    ‘Anyway… Yeah, I really liked the movie, too! Great choice! Stiller. That guy just slays me, every time… Also, anyway, sometimes, at the same time, there’s all these sirens and lights and it turns out the police or the local wildlife officers are out in force looking for a wild animal that’s horribly mauled some jogger… I know, I know! It’s weird! Like almost every month… Oh, really good! The sauce is just incredible. Peanut, I think… Here, try a bite…’

  286. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    Okay, FUCK MONEYGRAM AND WESTERN UNION BOTH.

    I feel like crying.

  287. says

    Joe/#469:

    Well, like the skit says: it’s only fair to get these things out of the way early. There are people who might have a real problem with something like that.

    (/… like, say, what if they have allergies?)

  288. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Sorry to hear that Joe. Another amp will come along, hopefully within a reasonable time. Currently I’m lusting after one of these. It’s the most rational stringed instrument I’ve ever seen.

    Of course I’m a member of the working poor who had hubris to commit to having a house built. (Thank you Aussie Gov. for that first home owner’s grant, without it I wouldn’t have considered putting my family in such a debt.) The damn thing is $4000 US and by the time I raise that kind of scratch they’ll no doubt be out of business.

  289. says

    FossilFishy,

    That harpejji thing is INSANE! I was just thinking of getting a 5W Marshall Class 5 guitar amp for $300 instead of $500. As a bedroom player, I have finally wised up and so have the amp manufacturers. I don’t need a fancy distortion pedal, I need a low-watt amp that I can crank into distortion without unreasonable volume. So my plan is to buy a couple of low-wattage amps and cover all the bases on tone and then build a cool switching system. :)

    You know, like everyone does. Everyone has 4-5 low-watt amps stacked in a pile in the corner.

  290. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Joe: Yup, overdriving a small amp to get a great tone at a reasonable volume is one of those studio tricks that’s been used for decades. A lot of famous records with epically heavy guitar sounds were done that way. Your plan makes good sense acoustically and financially.

    The Hapejji is haunting me. I suspect that I’ll never play in any kind of band again. And I’m okay with that. Much as I love the feeling of being in a band when everything is clicking the bullshit involved outweighs that to the point where I can’t be assed. Assuming of course there was in fact anyone to play with in this tiny town. Besides, I started my musical career, such as it was, as a classical guitarist. Playing solo is nothing new to me.

    An instrument where I have the full range of a bass and guitar that has such a rational, intuitive layout and tuning, that also allows for really complex chord structures of up to ten voices is fucking perfect for me. Looking at the virtual harpejji on that site, and having watched a few vids, I’m confident I could have a reasonable facility with the thing in a very short time.

    Ah to be a young, single, child and business free man again. One gainfully employed with a regular paycheck. /middleclass first world whinging

  291. Nutmeg says

    Just started reading Tipping the Velvet. The first two chapters remind me uncomfortably of Twilight. Poorly characterized protagonist with low self-esteem who becomes infatuated with someone she barely knows and behaves irrationally.

    So far, I am not impressed. This book is not living up to the hype. I hope it improves.

    (I generally hate romance novels. Why did I think it would be different for queer romance?)

  292. says

    FossilFishy,

    First… it helps me a lot to talk about something other than my problems, so thanks for that.

    Secondly, for about the last 10 years my dream has been a 5-10W amp with all the features of a 100W amp. Maybe the best amp overall I’ve owned was an Egnater Renegade amp, because it had all the bells and whistles and an 18W switch on it. Still really loud, but better than nothing. I’d love to see a 5-10W amp that had that many tone shaping options.

    I miss playing in bands too. I’ve never been in a “good” band, but I had one really strong experience where we were all trying as hard as we could, and it was fulfilling even though none of us were that good. I’ve played with better musicians, and I’m better now than I was then, but the bullshit as always wrecked things.

    You sound like you’re a better musician than me. I would just be stumped by a harpejji. I can barely make sense of a guitar after all these years.

  293. says

    Nutmeg:

    So far, I am not impressed. This book is not living up to the hype. I hope it improves.

    Actually, the book is good. You should try to remember the time in which it’s set. If it turns out that the book just isn’t going to be your cuppa, try the DVD of the BBC’s production, it’s fab. They didn’t deviate from the book overmuch.

  294. Nutmeg says

    Caine: I’m going to give it another chapter or two. I may just not be in the mood for romance tonight, and it’s rare for me to like historical fiction. The write-ups for Fingersmith did look more interesting, so I may give it a try if I don’t get into this one.

  295. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    …I bet you could make actual “whisker biscuits” topped with coconut shavings or something. O.o

    Better than my idea of [angel-]Hair [pot] Pie >.>

  296. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Don’t be too impressed Joe. I have a pretty good technical knowledge of music, harmonies and such like, and my left hand technique is pretty good, a legacy of the early classical training. But you might as well cut off my right hand and replace it with a power drill or a reciprocating saw. I can finger pick pretty well but my rhythm sense is poor.

    In every recording I’ve been a part of my track ends up buried in the mix. Partly that’s due to my unassertive nature. I hated they infighting that was needed to be front and center. And honesty compels me to admit that partly that was because I wasn’t that good.

    Classical guitar performance with its emphasis on solo performance is poor training for playing a band. To this day I have to force myself to really listen to the other players. And my time keeping is a mite more, er, idiosyncratic, than is ideal for ensemble work.

    Mind you, I really miss the high points. I love that feeling when everyone is on and the pocket expands out to where you can feel the drummer pushing or dragging the beat as the song requires. Where you can snuggle down in the beat and a bobble or ghost note is cause of laughter rather than angst. I love that big fermata pause before the final chord, the one where you hold, and hold, and hold, and everyone just knows that NOW we come down on the final chord like a hammer dropped from orbit. I love it when you throw the music out to the world and it’s caught by the feet of those who were standing still just moments before. I love the sweaty WTF feeling of walking off stage and realising that an hour and a half has passed but to you it was just one long timeless moment of being wrapped in sound and fun and the creation of something greater than the sum.

    Shit, now I’m really missing it.

  297. says

    FossilFishy,

    I guess you and I are opposites. I’ve got a really solid right hand. My left can’t do anything too complicated, but I can chug along with the beat forever. I’m not that good either, and it is tough because being the rhythm guy and being the boss doesn’t work for a lot of bands. I’m not the front guy, I can’t sing and I can’t improv a solo for more than 4 bars without injuring myself.

    But I’m with you in feeling that special moment when everyone is grooving together, and everyone is living in the pocket and the band and the audience are linked and it all works. It hasn’t happened to me often, but when it did it was as close to a miracle as an atheist like me can imagine.

  298. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Joe and Jadehawk – *more hugs*

    cicely – *returnpouncehug* Unfortunately, the three-week migraine cycle is still happening. Hopefully I’ll be out of it soon.

  299. says

    Alethea, Kuiper-Belt-Forever,

    Yeah, that loan sort of fell through. I think in large part because we were trying to go too big. Apparently, Azkyroth wasn’t allowed to make that large of a transfer because it sounded like a scam to the idiot they talked to at the bank. I can make it on a smaller transfer, preferably in the USA, since the fees are cheaper.

    I wish I’d insisted on smaller. There’s a shitty option for me that only costs $200… it is sort of terrible, but I can survive it. It involves me driving to my childhood home and camping there with no phone or cable or Internet for as long as it takes for my wife to get her check cashed.

  300. says

    Hekuni Cat, MQG:

    Hugs are always welcome, and appreciated. At least online. In real life, hugs are only welcome with an announcement, and from the front… I have a weird semi-neuropathy when it comes to unexpected touches.

  301. chigau (無) says

    I could be part of a band.
    As long as I am not required to actually play an instrument.
    Or have rhythm.
    Or sing on key.
    .
    .
    .
    Need a roadie?
    (oh and I can’t drive after dark)

  302. Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Oven says

    More precisely, Moneygram decided to veto the transaction on “nanny” grounds, and Western Union’s website is buggy, their cusomter support is useless, and some combination of their software and my bank’s hyperactive automatic protective features will not approve a transaction, in any amount, despite attempts at negotiating with both parties. Complicating this is the fact that I don’t really have any actual CASH to spare, just credit card space I could loan for a few days. >.> (Annoyingly, making the loan using a card and then being repaid in actual money would have been a net benefit since rent’s coming up).

    Anyone else feeling inspired? :(

  303. Nutmeg says

    Yes! for the hate of unexpected touching.

    I am okay with non-surprising hugs and other touching, if I like the person. But I’ve known people who thought it was a good idea to pounce-hug me with no warning, or to tug my ponytail or squeeze my shoulder from behind. I had to go the drastic-overreaction route to get them to stop that behaviour. Scaling up to a big dramatic reaction wasn’t hard, because my natural reaction to unexpected touching stops just short of pulling someone’s arm off. Grrr…

  304. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Doesn’t happen often, but I’m with you on the miraculous feeling. Addictive that is. And you know, it’s the one place where a rational skeptic can say fuck it, subjective truth is good enough.

    I tell youngn’s that they better enjoy rehearsal because you’re going to be doing that way more often than performing. Mind you I’ve had that feeling in practice as often as in performance, it’s just better when there’s an audience adding to it.

    I can’t sing either and it sucks. Everyone expects that because I did music in uni that I can sing. I tell them: No, no I can’t. They insist and are always surprised when it’s true.

    I can improvise pretty well. Knowing how harmony works really helps with that. I can noodle along with just about anything. But here’s the kicker: I don’t know any of the standards. Jamming sucks because of that. No one wants to play with “That” guy who always solos but never holds down the changes so others can take their turn.

  305. says

    chigau,

    You’re clearly a bass ukulele player. That was the position we picked for the non-musical “member” of my first band.

    Azkyroth,

    I hope you don’t feel guilty. My problems are not your problems, and you chose to try to help anyway. The fact that it didn’t pan out doesn’t make your effort mean any less to me.