Sep 05 2012

Phase II of the new Molly awards

Categories:

Man, you’re a ferocious and mouthy bunch. You gave me links to a lot of excellent comments, and I pared them down to these eight (next time, I might cut them down more). The next step: vote by leaving a comment with the number of the nomination you like best. These are just short excerpts, you’ll have to click on them to read the whole thing.

Anyway, respectful transgender people and transsexual people alike wanted to organize around the common ground that does exist (which is plenty). So they/we needed a word that we could agree *did* represent everyone.
This is fucking serious: A man just made a joke about raping a woman who he’s never met, who never did him any harm, who he doesn’t know at all, and he did this without considering how the fuck it might impact her or people like her.
I’ve done a bit more reading and thinking, and feel more than ever that the 2nd amendment was intended to facilitate well-trained militias, and had diddly to do with personal gun ownership.
Why are you so damned insistent on finding that one special circumstance when it’s morally OK for you to do something horrific to me? Why is it so unacceptable to you that I have bodily autonomy in all circumstances?
That hard truth being: torture is, as many, many competent professionals are telling you, close to useless for getting timely and precise intel. Rather: its only particularly reliable value as a tool of statecraft is as a method of terror and suppression.
The demands religion makes on human sexuality are unreasonable. There has literally never been a human society on the face of the planet, no matter how thoroughly crushed under the thumb of theistic tyranny, where people actually consistently restricted themselves to monogamous marital sex.
BTW, keep your Oogedy Boogedy death cult religion away from my kids and pets.
Playing devil’s advocate does not require lying about your own position. Indeed, that term is generally used only if a person agrees with others in the discussion, but wishes to present the position of someone who disagrees.

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122 comments

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1

John Morales

5 September 2012 at 9:39 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
2

tytalus

5 September 2012 at 9:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2
3

Caine, Fleur du mal

5 September 2012 at 9:44 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Number 4.
4

markr1957 Inc.

5 September 2012 at 9:44 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
5

John Phillips, FCD

5 September 2012 at 9:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#5

It can’t be repeated enough. But I’ll be honest, it was difficult to pick an outright winner as they are all excellent and valuable comments, it’s just I have a thing about torture and those who twist and turn to try and justify it.
6

FlyingToaster

5 September 2012 at 9:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7
7

sadunlap

5 September 2012 at 9:57 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#7

2nd choice: #2.
8

Suido

5 September 2012 at 10:16 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2.
9

mythbri

5 September 2012 at 10:20 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
10

chigau (違わない)

5 September 2012 at 10:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Is this meant to be easier?
4
11

Evil Laura

5 September 2012 at 10:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
12

Amphiox

5 September 2012 at 10:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4, 8 and 6.

In that rank order.
13

Usernames are smart

5 September 2012 at 10:48 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

10

I was waffling between two and four when I got to ten. The “pets” part was the clincher.
14

despard

5 September 2012 at 10:48 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
15

rogiriverstone

5 September 2012 at 10:49 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

1 cuz not enuff of your readers r GenderQueer, so won’t vote for it. The majority is often wrong.
16

Usernames are smart

5 September 2012 at 10:49 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Damn, wtf. I mean 7
17

Crissa

5 September 2012 at 10:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Darn, that’s a hard choice. I don’t know if I need to choose #1, although it’s true, the ownership of ‘transgender’ to mean those with a variant gender specifically over others has fallen in disuse. I’ve made that exact speech to real people in a real venue before… But that was over fifteen years ago. Now a days we can say ‘transwoman’ and ‘transman’ without needing an asterisk or aside to define it in most conversation. The world we live in today is far more informed and awesome than the one of twenty years ago.

And then, I’ve also made the point in #3, but never so eloquently. That’s just so detailed and with depth I don’t think I’d have followed through on.

So many good nominees.

I gota go with #3 as well-thought enough to be its own blog post.
18

consciousness razor

5 September 2012 at 10:59 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
19

voyager

5 September 2012 at 11:05 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
20

Badland

5 September 2012 at 11:11 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
21

katkinkate

5 September 2012 at 11:14 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I like 6 and 2 as a second preference.
22

donaji

5 September 2012 at 11:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4, then 3.
23

magistramarla

5 September 2012 at 11:26 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#6
24

strange gods before me ॐ

5 September 2012 at 11:30 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Tough choice. I like 1, 8 and 4, but I learned the most from

1.
25

brazenlucidity

5 September 2012 at 11:31 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

5
26

Tuppy Glossop

5 September 2012 at 11:32 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
27

Jason Dick

5 September 2012 at 11:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2
28

Hatchetfish

5 September 2012 at 11:39 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
29

Hammer of dog

5 September 2012 at 11:42 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#3

That was a well reasoned interpretation of the intent of the 2nd amendment.

I am so tired of this “I have the right to bear arms well beyond what I would need for personal protection, sport/target shooting, and/or hunting. I need to have the power to protect myself from my government.” Good luck with that. Got nukes?
30

upagainsttheropes

6 September 2012 at 12:10 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

funny i keep coming here thinking i’ll get realtime reaction to the real world but no it’s fuckfest of self flagellation

#sandra fluke #megyn kelly

shit this ain’t twitter
31

wytchy

6 September 2012 at 12:12 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6.
32

natashatasha

6 September 2012 at 12:12 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
33

Quinn Martindale

6 September 2012 at 12:15 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

1
34

McC2lhu saw what you did there.

6 September 2012 at 12:20 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#2 – Erista’s post was the most insightful view into genuine emotion and reasoning behind the fear and anger rape victims are burdoned by every day. Anyone unsympathetic after reading that would have to be an immensely callous and vile personality.
35

screechymonkey

6 September 2012 at 12:34 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
36

shripathikamath

6 September 2012 at 12:37 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6 (SIX). Oh c’mon, it has to be #6.
37

lexie

6 September 2012 at 12:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
38

Menyambal --- Sambal's Little Helper

6 September 2012 at 12:48 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Hey, number 3 is me. Thanks, John Morales.

I like number 7.
39

Avenel

6 September 2012 at 1:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I have to go with #6.
40

redwood

6 September 2012 at 1:28 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#5 for me.
41

Susannah

6 September 2012 at 1:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#6
42

echidna

6 September 2012 at 1:46 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4 and 5.
43

StevoR

6 September 2012 at 1:51 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

From later on in choice 2 there :

(Comment #478. Erista aka Eris.)

So, please, stop treating us like we’re something foreign, something alien, something that doesn’t care when people casually joke about hurting us in a way that many of us have already been hurt. The thought of our pain should not be amusing to you. I don’t know what else to do than say PLEASE care about if you hurt me, to beg you to stop insisting that I have no right to be hurt, because there’s a time when even anger isn’t strong enough to serve as a shield. My ability to take blows is not endless, but the number of people who have the ability to inflict blows when I’ve never even seen them is very nearly endless. To you it might be just one little smack, but to me, it’s a blow that’s falling on an already bruised and broken body. If you throw enough stones at me, even little ones, I will die.

This. So powerfully highlighting the effect on real individuals when they get so much undeserved, wrong and just vile hatred spewed continually their way by truly disgusting trolls and scumbags. Powerful, moving stuff that should make anyone stop in their tracks and really think.

Especially in light of what we witnessed yesterday from Jen McCreight :

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/09/goodbye-for-now/

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/09/05/congratulations-to-team-douchebag-on-their-first-major-victory/

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/09/05/must-be-this-tough-to-ride/

(Warning lots of possibly triggering evidence eps. on the last link.)

So my vote is for (2) to win the New Molly Award gold medal.

With (4) as my choice for silver and the informative historical (1) getting my bronze medal place.
44

Beatrice

6 September 2012 at 1:56 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
5 (if you decide to take more than one vote per person into account)
45

giantpanda

6 September 2012 at 1:57 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
46

tort

6 September 2012 at 2:08 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2 and 4
47

clarysage

6 September 2012 at 2:12 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2
48

Paul Durrant

6 September 2012 at 2:27 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2
49

piegasm

6 September 2012 at 2:34 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#2
50

Maarja

6 September 2012 at 2:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

first choice: 2
second choice: 6
51

Amateur Hour

6 September 2012 at 2:54 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4

And, if it doesn’t win, I will still quote them at every appropriate instance.

#4

Why are you so damned insistent on finding that one special circumstance when it’s morally OK for you to do something horrific to me? Why is it so unacceptable to you that I have bodily autonomy in all circumstances?
52

rpolak

6 September 2012 at 3:18 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7
53

mikmik

6 September 2012 at 3:24 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Y’know, it’s hard enough to whittle it down to 8, let alone 1, as almost every time I read a couple of threads here, I find eloquent and brilliant comments and rebuttals. That said, this person almost never fails to do so – ever.

#6

Sigh. #2 Eloquent emotion.
54

Nancy New, Queen of your Regulatory Nightmare

6 September 2012 at 3:24 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7 as the tie-breaker between 2 and 4.
55

echidna

6 September 2012 at 3:29 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’ve just read 2 (again) and am kicking myself that I didn’t vote for it. There are good reasons to vote for every single one of the entries.
56

eachknee

6 September 2012 at 3:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

As one with a long list of credentials in the field, I must say #3 caught my attention immediately for its almost incredible, tragically misinformed, profoundly shallow ignorance of the history and meaning of weapon use by Homo sapiens sapiens (a knowledgeable tool-using primate– get it?). And I shall resist the urge to debate the topic here for the same reasons and with the same tenacity that certain evolutionary biologists resist debating ID with creationist fucktards. The other comments are rather good. NB: when I click on #2 it goes to #4 (#4 is great). #5 is close to me too, been there. I like #6 also……and #1, #7, #8…. OK
#5, #6
Please not #3, it is very wrong. Thanks
57

strange gods before me ॐ

6 September 2012 at 3:37 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Oh, if anybody feels like updating it to reflect the new process, there’s this:

http://pharyngula.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Molly
58

Shplane, Spess Alium

6 September 2012 at 3:43 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#6
59

feedmybrain

6 September 2012 at 3:55 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

8
60

NuMad

6 September 2012 at 4:50 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

8.
61

Lyn M: Necrodunker of death, nothing but net

6 September 2012 at 5:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2.

Can’t think of a better way to make the problem clear than Erista’s comment.

But I would really like to vote for them all. It was most affecting to read these comments all together. Logic, feeling, intelligence, learning, coherence, elegance. All of those in these comments.
62

puppygod

6 September 2012 at 5:09 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#5

Hard to choose, there’s many good entries. Number 5, because that’s the point that needs to be reapeated – It. Does. Not. Work.
63

johnmorgan

6 September 2012 at 5:23 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4

But I really dislike FPTP ballots, as there are other worthy choices here, I like both 2 and 3 almost as much as 4.

Can’t you find some geek to whip up a program for you, one containing an algorithm to perform Condorcet elections?
64

aleph squared

6 September 2012 at 5:59 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
65

vaiyt

6 September 2012 at 6:30 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2

(torn between 2 and 4 actually; I like the I’m-not-taking-this-shit honest tone of 4. I considered 5 for the longest time because it puts in a good argument what I’m tired of saying about torture…)
66

Fleegman

6 September 2012 at 6:32 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Erista’s at #2

Fucking awesome, and I wish there were a way to get it tattooed in mirror writing to the chests of all the assholes defending that fucking “joke.”
67

StarStuff, a soulless cunt

6 September 2012 at 6:40 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4 was great.
68

Audley Z. Darkheart: My name is Legion, for we are many

6 September 2012 at 6:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4!

Alethea summed the up why the whole stupid “but what about the stupid slut who changes her mind in the 9th month??” anti-abortion “argument” is offensive and ridiculous in one righteous post.

♥
69

schweinhundt

6 September 2012 at 7:27 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

5. It is both accurate and succinct.
70

schweinhundt

6 September 2012 at 7:27 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Missed irony alert: Not making the anti-gun piece choice #2.
71

Loud - warm smiles do not make you welcome here

6 September 2012 at 7:34 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Number 2, definitely.

If that comment does not get through to ‘rape joke’ people, then nothing will.
72

billhaines

6 September 2012 at 7:52 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
73

ButchKitties

6 September 2012 at 8:03 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
74

tlorquin

6 September 2012 at 8:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4 though difficult to select just one.
75

roxolan

6 September 2012 at 8:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
76

richvr

6 September 2012 at 8:14 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7
77

Negathle

6 September 2012 at 8:33 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
78

Louis

6 September 2012 at 8:36 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4 for me!

Louis
79

AylaSophia

6 September 2012 at 8:48 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

It was a tough call, but had to go with

6
80

hanchman

6 September 2012 at 8:48 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
81

Ibis3, member of the Oppressed Sisterhood fanclub

6 September 2012 at 8:49 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4

But I bookmarked several of the others.
82

nathanieltagg

6 September 2012 at 8:51 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I love this new system. I usually don’t have the werewithal to dig into the comments section, so this is a great way to see some gems.

I’ll go with

4
83

carlie

6 September 2012 at 8:55 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4

But if I’m allowed a second vote,

2
84

Stephen T

6 September 2012 at 9:04 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
85

Jerry

6 September 2012 at 9:15 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

5.

Second choice 2,
then 3,
then 8.

I was thinking that it is So hard to pick just one, when I realized the question must be asked…

PZ, why *are* you limiting this to just one award when there are so many so very eloquent entries? The fact that you had so much trouble deciding, as well as many of your regular commenters, means multiple entries deserve recognition. Maybe next time, there will be zero, also deservedly so.
86

alexanderz

6 September 2012 at 9:25 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
87

xmnr

6 September 2012 at 10:10 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Split my vote between 2 & 4.

But I’d also like to make a special note for #1.

I am exceptionally ignorant of the trans* community, and over the last few months my ignorance has been reduced by posts like #1.
88

neXus

6 September 2012 at 10:52 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#5
89

Gregory Greenwood

6 September 2012 at 10:57 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

My first vote is for 4.

Should I be allowed further votes (pretty please), then my second vote is for 2, and my third for 6.

All the posts are great, but those are my top three.

That said, I also really like 1, because it taught me much about the history of trans* as a term…

And 3 was fantastic because it laid out the case against the claims that the notional ‘right to bear arms’ should be viewed as an inviolate so well…

Also, in an age where things like waterboarding still happen even in the US, 5 makes vital points about the inefficacy of torture as anything other than a tool of fear and oppression…

And you’ve got to love 7 – keep the Oogedy Boogedy death cults away from me too…

As for number 8, it is simply all kinds of win, pointing out the strengths of the scientific method whilst simultaneously calling Joey to account for arguing in bad faith and not knowing what ‘playing devil’s advocate’ actually means – what’s not to like…?

OK, I have to stop now.

4, 2, 6 – those are my picks. I am going to leave before I am tempted to change my mind again, or I take it into my head to rank all eight comments and try to squeeze in a vote for each…

Actually, now that I think about it, that’s not such a bad idea…
90

chrisj

6 September 2012 at 11:28 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Ouch; that’s a hard choice. Why so many smart people saying interesting, well-thought-out, and solidly evidenced things? Is this [looks around suspiciously, takes straw out of mouth] some kind of sciency place?

That said, number 4 gets my vote.
91

baal

6 September 2012 at 11:34 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#7 please and thank you.
92

twincats

6 September 2012 at 11:37 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#6
93

Randomfactor

6 September 2012 at 11:39 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4.
94

eriktrips

6 September 2012 at 12:13 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2.

second choice:
4.
95

Krasnaya Koshka

6 September 2012 at 12:22 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
96

woodsong

6 September 2012 at 12:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

So hard to choose! I do like them all.

I’ll go with 4, 2, 3 and 5, in that order. And I secobd the call for multiple awards!
97

Jamie

6 September 2012 at 12:33 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Good choices. I’d rank them 5,6,2,8. If I had to go with one, I’d just pick 5.

Also, did I miss a post where quotes were submitted for Phase II of the new Mollies? I had some choice quotes I’d saved somewhere.
98

cicely (Something Dark and Humorously Mordanted)

6 September 2012 at 12:35 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Damn, this is a tough choice to make!

*reading entries*

Oh, man….

*re-reading entries*

I’m going to go with Anne C. Hanna’s performance in #6, “The demands religion makes on human sexuality are unreasonable.” My second choice would be #4, “Why are you so damned insistent on finding that one special circumstance when it’s morally OK for you to do something horrific to me?“, by Alethea.
-

There are good reasons to vote for every single one of the entries.

That’s the problem….
-
99

bluescreenlife

6 September 2012 at 1:23 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
100

jefrir

6 September 2012 at 1:53 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4, closely followed by 2.

Also, you all need to stop being so fucking awesome, you’re making it hard to choose.
101

fastlane

6 September 2012 at 2:58 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’m going to buck the tide and vote #2.
102

Wild old caveman, now less rancid

6 September 2012 at 3:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7
103

jedimasteryoda

6 September 2012 at 3:44 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4

That post and thread really brought home to me why pontificating about hypothetical situations can’t inform or change a bodily rights based (the only one that matters) prochoice position.
104

Stevarious

6 September 2012 at 3:47 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
105

carovee

6 September 2012 at 4:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#2 hands down. Hand me in tears.
106

meandmine

6 September 2012 at 5:10 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6
107

ladyh42

6 September 2012 at 5:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
108

opposablethumbs

6 September 2012 at 5:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
109

Tethys

6 September 2012 at 6:22 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4

6
110

cm's changeable moniker

6 September 2012 at 6:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
44
4444
4444444444

(Sorry, I’m channeling Data in Cause and Effect. Except 4, not 3.)
111

Margaret

6 September 2012 at 6:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4. If I get a second vote, then 2.
112

joed

6 September 2012 at 7:27 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

5
113

verbascum

6 September 2012 at 8:26 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
114

Larry Poppins

6 September 2012 at 9:01 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

#4
115

Hekuni Cat, MQG

6 September 2012 at 9:34 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Number 4
116

echolocation

6 September 2012 at 9:39 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

3
117

WMDKitty (Always growing and learning)

7 September 2012 at 12:42 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

4
118

Marie the Bookwyrm

7 September 2012 at 1:56 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Still taking votes?

NUMBER 4!
119

katchen

7 September 2012 at 3:58 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

6, by a whisker; 2 and 4 if we get multiple votes – 1 was also an outstanding comment.

Not an easy choice.
120

didgen

7 September 2012 at 4:20 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

2
121

Crip Dyke, MQ, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

7 September 2012 at 1:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Okay, I’ve read them all now, and some of the context precomment for almost all.

Here’s what I’ve concluded & I wondered if anyone else noticed:

When you combine #4 with #5 you think that they belong in exactly the same thread. Hypothetical fantasies about when I can take over your body w/ regard to sex, pregnancy, and (ultimately) rape in one bleed over using the concept of assault into hypotheticals about, “Can’t I just torture the bearded guy if we assume X?” It’s another hypothetical obsessing over what opportunities one might have to do horrible things because someone is just not satisfied with the answer, “Never. Never are you allowed to do horrible things to another person.” They just have to have their hypotheticals because it is somehow obscenely important to preserve *their rights* to do horrible things to unconsenting other parties.

I can’t separate #4 & #5 because they seem like perfect complements to each other. Therefore I put my vote for the gestalt of the two.
122

AtheistPilgrim

7 September 2012 at 8:30 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Number 4, but I also really like number 7.