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Feb 15 2012

The Poll of Childhood Pain

This is an awful poll: it’s trying to build a list of 15 Places Kids Should See Before 15, and here are the top 5 so far:

#1:U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL

#2:Creation Museum, KY

#3:Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC

#4:Alabama Space and Rocket Center, AL

#5:Yellowstone Nationsl Park, WY

The Creation “Museum” was at #1 earlier, but it has begun to slide downward. How about pushing it further?

There is the problem that there are so many options that it’ll be hard to focus and knock out the Creation “Museum” — it has 700 votes already — so you might want to peruse the list and vote for any choice that has a chance at passing it by.

152 comments

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  1. 1
    Maureen Brian

    Shouldn’t the poor little buggers have got outside the US at least once by 15? How else are we to stop them imagining they are the only people here?

  2. 2
    crys

    the least they could do is learn to spell national

    but yes, I second that thought, how about a few international locations on that list? would that really be so bad?

  3. 3
    David Marjanović

    What the fuck. I’m only the sixth person to vote for the AMNH!?! (“American Museum of Natural History, NY”.)

    Remember, you can give “thumbs up” to several choices.

    …I’m also the 6th person to vote for “Cretin Museum, KY”.

    …And it turns out “Musuem [sic] of Natural History, NY” has 71 votes. I commented. :-/

  4. 4
    myeck waters

    The alternate spellings of “Creation Museum” are pretty funny.

  5. 5
    edhensley

    You can vote for more than 1 attraction. To pharygulate this poll, each person should vote for all the attractions that have more than 100 votes other than the Creation “Museum” every day.

  6. 6
    keithroragen

    Seems like a pretty dumb poll. Aren’t #1 and #4 the same thing?

  7. 7
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    My first idea was the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. But the Grand Canyon isn’t on the top 5???? Sacrilege!

  8. 8
    holytape

    Apparently, Mount Saint Helen’s is in North Dakota…. And there’s a Plymou, MA where the Pilgri landed. It’s a really sad list.
    St. Mandi

  9. 9
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I voted for two places that I lived before I was fifteen — Death Valley and Grand Canyon. Places where the history of the earth is exposed in the most stunning way possible.

    Though, oddly, they have GRCA placed in NV. Continnental drift?

  10. 10
    McCthulhu, now with -25% less fat.

    I actually would visit the Creeashunnn Muzm since it would obviously be a parody of the real thing and immensely more enlightening. I would especially like the mockument behind the museum of the dinosaur footprints alongside those of Neil Armstrong’s space boot-prints.

  11. 11
    andybreeden

    Someone added the Creatard Museum. Nice. I added Kent Hovind’s prison. Kids should see that.

  12. 12
    frankb

    I’m bad. I chose the city museum in St. Louis Missouri which had 34 votes. But I can’t imagine very many people wanting to visit the creation museum more than once or twice. The city museum is an absolute blast. I have visited it three times and would go again. If a parent goes with young kids, he or she will come out with sore muscles and joints from having climbed through elaborate structures and tunnels. It is so fun. The art work is fantastic. One site is a monument to authoritarianism where laughter and fun are not encouaged. The other is a monument to art and creativity and youth.

  13. 13
    Zeno

    Oy. A list of places kids should be dragged by the scruff of the neck. Fond memories of “fun” family trips. Oy.

  14. 14
    ciucilon

    After seeing Bill Maher Religulous I would so love to see the creation museum. I mean, a triceratops with a saddle! How cool is that! I want to get photographed riding it.

    Talking to the people there or see Ken Ham would be a lot of fun too. Up to the point when they’ll probably turn upset and throw us out…

    As of the “to be seen thing”, it’s akin to Disneyland. So, for something enlightening go to to a National history or/and industry and techniques museum. Not some amusement park…

  15. 15
    Kevin Anthoney

    That’s assuming they manage to build the thing within the next 15 years.

  16. 16
    scottplumer

    I voted for Cleveland. Get your kids into urban exploration early!

  17. 17
    Moggie

    I can see the creation “museum” being a worthwhile place to take kids, as long as you provide suitable commentary. Learning how to recognise bullshit is an important part of education, but too often neglected.

  18. 18
    Synfandel

    I particularly like “Niagra falls, NY”, an awesome force of nature powered by a little blue pill.

  19. 19
    Kevin Anthoney

    That’s assuming they manage to build the thing within the next 15 years.

    Aaargh!! I was thinking of the Ark Park. Ignore that.

  20. 20
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    Because just everyone has the opportunity to go zipping about the country or the world. And we should, really, until all we have left will be in museums.

  21. 21
    nonsense

    It looks like you can reload the page and vote again for the same things, without waiting the 24 hours. We can just vote the shit out of everything else, really.

  22. 22
    greaterthanlapsed

    I actually sort of think that seeing the Creation Museum can be good for kids. My daughter is 8 and REALLY into science, and she was just APPALLED when we explained to her (just the other night, actually) what the Creation Museum is.

    Of course, we promised her a trip there sometime to marvel at the insanity of it all. Maybe this summer; since we live in Cincinnati, it’s not a far drive for us.

  23. 23
    Synfandel

    I tried to add the Royal Tyrrell Museum, but one is required to choose a state and, of course, Alberta is not among them.

    Do you think Budget Travel has a rational reason for restricting the scope to US locations—perhaps that they only sell travel to US destinations—or is this just another example of Americans forgetting that anything exists beyond their borders?

  24. 24
    osteenq

    The have the Alamo listed as an attraction in Arizona. Stupid poll.

  25. 25
    dianne

    the Alamo listed as an attraction in Arizona

    **Snicker** Everyone knows the Alamo is in Hollywood. Well, the one you want to see is anyway. The one in San Antonio is disappointingly small.

    Don’t take your kids to the Alamo. Take your cynical and rebellious teens there so they can see an example of propaganda. All that talk of martyrdom to freedom. And what “freedom” were the Anglo Texans rebelling over? They were rebelling in protest of abolition. In short, the Alamo is a microcosm of how the CSA would have spun the Civil War if they’d won.

  26. 26
    nemothederv

    C’mon Diane, everyone knows that Alamo is at the airport.

    It’s strange. This isn’t the kind of fundie site you would expect results like this to come from.

    Think I’ll add “creatine museum”

  27. 27
    Glen Davidson

    What do you have against kids laughing at Ham and company?

    Or, was there some other reason someone would take them there?

    Glen Davidson

  28. 28
    coralline

    The have the Alamo listed as an attraction in Arizona. Stupid poll.

    They moved the Grand Canyon to Nevada to make room (as strange as that sounds).

  29. 29
    Wren, a Tru Hoppist

    @greaterthanlapsed

    Take her on Xmas eve, if you have the time. It’s free that day.

  30. 30
    andusay

    About the first 30 comments praise this piece of crap, an obvious attempt to poll crash this by creotards. But then after that, the comments go downhill fast. Worth reading for the amusing critiques, how many different ways can you torpedo this monument to stupidity? Looks like the creotards have given up on supporting this in the comments, they probably hope nobody will bet past the first 30. Too bad you can’t down vote.

  31. 31
    shouldbeworking

    I agree that kids should visit another country. But if they go to Alaska or Niagara Falls they can at least see different countries, right? That counts for something, I’m sure. Don’t confuse the issue with how the children would get to Alaska without seeing another country. We wouldnt want to confuse them, they think the Alamo is in AZ. And Hawaii’s Volcano Park is in a foreign country.

  32. 32
    PZ Myers

    Worse…despite my encouragement to vote for the leading candidates, I’m the guy who had to nominate the AMNH this morning.

  33. 33
    littlejohn

    CM down to fifth place now. The pro-Creation Museum comments will make you weep for the children of creotards.

  34. 34
    dianne

    I’m the guy who had to nominate the AMNH this morning.

    Thank you.

  35. 35
    dianne

    Think I’ll add “creatine museum”

    How about the creatinine museum? It’s never too soon to learn the importance of your kidneys.

  36. 36
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    BudgetTravel.com seems to be deleting the parody entries. I just added one for the “Cremation Museum” and provided this rationale:

    Because it’s hot, hot, hot! Also, what a perfect illustration of the proverb about “ashes to ashes”!

    Wonder how long it’ll stay up?

    Maureen, #1: I had the same thought. Airfare overseas for three or more people might not be affordable for Americans these days, but if they’re able to afford a trip at all, there’s no reason they couldn’t visit Canada or Mexico.

    Also, I beg your pardons? The Alamo is in Medford, Mass.

  37. 37
    Paulino

    Kent Hovid’s Prison, hehehehehhe

  38. 38
    davem

    As a non-US citizen, I have to say the only thing I’d have crossed the Atlantic for was the Grand Canyon. Awesome. And not awesome in it’s over-used colloquial sense, but really awesome in the original meaning of the word.

    Oh, and the other national parks. Indeed, America’s national parks are the jewel in its crown.

    But as to a kid under 15? ‘Abroad’ is the place I’d send every child. No offence intended to any Canajuns here, but ‘Abroad’ does not include Canada. In 40 years time we might then see governments composed of people who see ‘Abroad’ as merely different, not a place to bomb.

  39. 39
    HappyHead

    To those who’ve been creating and voting for “creation museum” misspellings – you should stop doing that, it looks like the poll owners have noticed, and merged the entries (and their subsequent votes) into one block, resulting in a massive jump for the CM, and if you voted for more than one of the fakes, you just gave multiple votes to them.

  40. 40
    richardelguru

    Hee! Hee! I put the ‘”Creeation” Museum’ at the top of the list. and I already have 4 votes!

  41. 41
    richardelguru

    @HH
    Oh! Shit!! Didn’t think of that
    :-(

  42. 42
    jand

    Creation museum now 4th, Grand Canyon only two votes short of overtaking it.

  43. 44
    richardelguru

    Now the bastards are 5th

  44. 45
    Anthony K

    Consistently, the ones with the highest votes are the sites or wars and speeches and the birthplaces of demigods like Lincoln and Washington.

    Will your nation ever get tired of gazing at its own navel while fantasizing that its birth was the most momentous event to ever be ordained by the one true god?

  45. 46
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    DaveM, do you really think that every family in the U.S. can afford to travel overseas? It costs a lot more to visit Europe, for example, from the U.S. than it does from the U.K.

    Also, we don’t get anywhere near as much mandated vacation time as non-Americans do. In fact, some of us get no paid days off at all. And lots of us are working just to keep afloat. A vacation is, for many people, a luxury.

  46. 47
    dianne

    Re sites outside the US: The poll states at its beginning that it is specifically about places in the US that kids should see. One could argue (and I would) that that’s ridiculously limiting, but all suggestions must be within the context set out by the people who created the poll. Thus, places kids should see in other countries are irrelevant for this poll. Sorry.

    Will your nation ever get tired of gazing at its own navel while fantasizing that its birth was the most momentous event to ever be ordained by the one true god?

    Highly unlikely.

  47. 48
    Louis

    Oh I don’t know, visiting the Creation Museum as a kid would be quite useful. Think of all the fun you could have with a canister of petrol and some matches…

    And as for US parochialism, it’s not so bad. I’ve met people from Yorkshire. ;-)

    Louis

    DISCLAIMER: This is the internet. Someone, somewhere will think I am seriously advocating the destruction of property/endangering of lives by making a comedy reference to arson. No. Just no. Naughty paranoid delusional. Naughty. Back in your box. No biscuits, extra mockery. The thing about Yorkshire….that was true.

  48. 49
    Moggie

    Louis:

    And as for US parochialism, it’s not so bad. I’ve met people from Yorkshire.

    Yorkshire is just Texas with whippets.

  49. 50
    Aquaria

    **Snicker** Everyone knows the Alamo is in Hollywood. Well, the one you want to see is anyway. The one in San Antonio is disappointingly small.

    But the rest of the grounds are not. They’re about the size of a city block. But I doubt that you know that, given that your next remark is this:

    Don’t take your kids to the Alamo. Take your cynical and rebellious teens there so they can see an example of propaganda. All that talk of martyrdom to freedom.

    You went on the 50 cent tour, didn’t you? Did you bother to go out of the main building itself? Did you know that there are historians in the expanses around the Alamo, and in assorted other buildings of the complex?

    It’s true!

    You can find women doing bobbin lace–a common way for women to be exploited to make fancy things for the rich. Just ask the people who are ready to answer your questions. There are people making toys out of wood and rope for children, and you can try your hand at playing like children of 1836 would have. There’s a lady with a table explaining to you what a traveling salesman would have to sell people of the frontier, with actual examples. The Institute of Texas Cultures is out there, showing you artifacts of the pre-European era of Texas.

    And more. So much more.

    Did you see the diorama out in the priest quarters? Doesn’t sound like it.

    The Alamo has been one of the best museum experiences I’ve ever had. And it was 100% free.

    Now I’ll grant you that I might have gone on a day when they had the whole shebang set up for the tourists. But having that at all is much, much better than what I saw of the Alamo as a kid in the early 70s. Mr. A and I spent maybe–maybe 30 seconds inside the main building on our visit in the early 2000s. We spent 5 hours outside it. That’s how good the exhibits are if you get away from the main tourist trap and gift shop.

    And what “freedom” were the Anglo Texans rebelling over? They were rebelling in protest of abolition. In short, the Alamo is a microcosm of how the CSA would have spun the Civil War if they’d won.

    The reason for it was stupid and pointless, but that doesn’t make the site worthless. The siege at the Alamo still happened, and it still played a role in the formation of Texas the nation and state. Just because taking Fort Sumter was a victory for the Confederates doesn’t lessen the historical significance of the place itself. Or do you think that nobody should remember what happened there, either?

  50. 51
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Yorkshire is just Texas with whippets.

    But Whippets are from Vermont! After all, the Rutland Railroad was “The Route of the Whippets!” No True ‘Merkin would name something after something from England! Even if it is in New England.

  51. 52
    marybierbaum

    Ha! PZ, you’ve made the list.

  52. 53
    dianne

    You went on the 50 cent tour, didn’t you?

    No, the 25 cent tour: I lived in San Antonio as an adult for four years and went to the Alamo once, just so I could claim I’d been there. I don’t remember a lot about it, apart from the rather silly plaques about the defenders giving their lives for “freedom”. I do remember the grounds being quite lovely, but never really parsed them as part of the Alamo. More part of San Antonio. San Antonio, as a whole, is a nice place to visit and not so bad to live in. Better than Dallas, certainly.

    The reason for it was stupid and pointless,

    No, it wasn’t. It was actively evil. Anglos went to Texas on the promise that they would abide by Mexico’s laws. They lied. And the reason they did not fulfill their contract was that Mexico, along with all other civilized countries in the Americas, was ending slavery. Not something that should be celebrated. Remembered, yes. Celebrated, no. And it seems to me that the Alamo spins it as a celebration. At least from what I’ve seen of it.

    but that doesn’t make the site worthless. The siege at the Alamo still happened, and it still played a role in the formation of Texas the nation and state. Just because taking Fort Sumter was a victory for the Confederates doesn’t lessen the historical significance of the place itself. Or do you think that nobody should remember what happened there, either?

    No, I’d rather people remember the truth of what happened there. The defenders at the Alamo weren’t there because they were oppressed by the evil Mexicans, they were there because they didn’t want to fulfill a promise they had made to the country they immigrated to. They decided that they’d rather take it over and remake it in their own Anglo-Saxon slave holding image.

    I’ve always felt that anti-immigrant, especially anti-Hispanic immigrant, sentiment in the US had a strong element of projection.

  53. 54
    heironymous

    I just nominated the Udvar-Hazy Center. That, Monut Vernon and Colonial Williamsburg should definitely be way ahead of any Creation Museum.

  54. 55
    markr1957

    Where are the pyramids on the list? The Parthenon? Stomehenge? I truly believe kids should see some of the British “Stately Homes”, just so they can know just how far inequality will go if they let it. If nothing else kids need to see any part of the world outside our borders.

  55. 56
    osmosis

    That’s how we vote for our elected representatives here in BC – we vote against the one we like the least.

  56. 57
    Aquaria

    One could argue (and I would) that that’s ridiculously limiting, but all suggestions must be within the context set out by the people who created the poll. Thus, places kids should see in other countries are irrelevant for this poll.

    You’re batting 0 for 0 here.

    This time you’re making an assumption that everyone in America has the time or the money to go outside of the US to travel. Most Americans don’t. Try to think of the people who don’t get much paid vacation, if any. Or the people who are lucky to be able to afford a trip to Yosemite in their lifetimes. I went on exactly one vacation that didn’t involve visiting family before I was 10. Hell, I grew up less than 100 miles from the Louisiana border but I didn’t set foot outside of Texas before I was 15–and that was on a school trip. That’s how poor we were, you fucking pretentious, privileged snob.

    Also, consider that America is a large country, and there’s a lot to see here, even if a fuckfaced nitwit like you doesn’t think much of the place itself. It’s the same with Mexico or Brazil. You could do entire pages about all the different and unique cultures and natural phenomena either of them have that other people haven’t considered or seen yet, simply because they’re both so huge.

    There’s no shame in listing off some places right here in the US of A that might be interesting to others, particularly for a magazine catering mostly to Americans who might never have a chance to go anywhere else.

  57. 58
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Markr1957, for pete’s sake, scroll up and read the thread. Not every American CAN travel abroad for financial reasons.

    Seriously, the classism here…

  58. 59
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    They’re deleting comments

  59. 60
    Synfandel

    No offence intended to any Canajuns here, but ‘Abroad’ does not include Canada.

    No offence taken, just puzzlement. If, from the standpoint of the US, Canada is not ‘Abroad’, then why are Canadian provinces not in the poll’s list? The answer, of course, is that in the geographically fuzzy American mind Canada is in a nebulous state of being not-part-of-the-US-but-not-really-foreign.

    I bought a piece of software from a US company by phone back in the days when software got mailed out on floppy diskettes. It had to go from California to Ontario. They added an “overseas” shipping charge. I explained that the Great Lakes aren’t really seas and in any case you can go around them. It took several explanations and a geography lesson to get my point across. In the end I had to pay the “overseas” shipping charge anyway, of course.

    In every US television program or movies that shows a classroom, there is always a large map of the United States on the wall. Alaska and Hawaii are rescaled as necessary and tucked in wherever it’s convenient, usually off the coast of California or in the Gulf of Mexico. Beyond the political boundaries of the US there is darkness and void. The US exists in pure nothingness. I’m sure that map actually appears in US school rooms and it probably contributes to the pervasive geographical ignorance of the average American.

    (As you said, no offence intended.)

  60. 61
    Glen Davidson

    Christ, you idiot Americans, if Europeans are able to visit Europe, what excuse do you have?

    Glen Davidson

  61. 62
    davem

    DaveM, do you really think that every family in the U.S. can afford to travel overseas?

    No, but we’re talking fantasy here, aren’t we? Besides, if you’re going to go as far as the Grand Canyon from, say, New York, Mexico is closer, and more of a life-changing experience.

    Besides, come the revolution, you’re all going to start taking longer holidays, right?

  62. 63
    carlie

    No offence intended to any Canajuns here, but ‘Abroad’ does not include Canada.

    It does in terms of money. You have to have a passport now to get there, which is $130 per person over 16, not counting getting the passport photos etc. So you’re at close to $300 just to be allowed to go to Canada if it’s a family with two adults, before you even start to count the cost of a vacation itself.

    No, but we’re talking fantasy here, aren’t we?

    Not really – these kinds of polls are supposed to give you ideas. People can either remember or find out about places close to them, and people with more means can have more options for their own travel.

  63. 64
    carlie

    I also second frankb’s suggestion of the City Museum in St. Louis. My kids went there this last fall and had an absolute blast. I wasn’t with them, but the pictures made me wish I had been.

  64. 65
    Aquaria

    No, I’d rather people remember the truth of what happened there.

    It’s not like the information isn’t out there for people to learn, or even that the Alamo itself doesn’t provide some of those people. There were literally dozens of historians at the Alamo the day I went, and even one who gave a talk about some of the less attractive sides of the Alamo history. My husband and three other people were there to listen, on a Saturday, with literally thousands of tourists swarming the place. Most people just don’t care.

    The defenders at the Alamo weren’t there because they were oppressed by the evil Mexicans, they were there because they didn’t want to fulfill a promise they had made to the country they immigrated to. They decided that they’d rather take it over and remake it in their own Anglo-Saxon slave holding image.

    I know that, and you know that. But Americans are stupid. Since you’ve lived in San Antonio, you know that the people who are visiting the Alamo have squeezed it in between Sea World and the Buckhorn Saloon. They’re just checking off that they’ve been. They go in, look around for 30 seconds, hit up the gift shop, get their picture taken outside, and then leave.

    I’ve always felt that anti-immigrant, especially anti-Hispanic immigrant, sentiment in the US had a strong element of projection.

    It has a strong element of the powerful sowing conflict between the poor of different races, who otherwise might band together against the powerful. This has been true since the earliest days of America. In colonial times, there were numerous uprisings of poor blacks and whites. To keep this from happening again, poor whites were given some crumbs from the economic and property table, just enough to make them happy and less prone to wanting to rise up against the powerful. It left blacks in the lurch.

    Divide and conquer. It’s been going on a long time.

  65. 66
    davem

    No offence taken, just puzzlement.
    Only because it’s not really that much different. It’s not really a life-changing experience for a kid. Same standard of living, same language, a milder version of the same culture.

    A bit like me travelling to Yorkshire :0)

  66. 67
    Hurin

    Well that was depressing.

  67. 68
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Christ, you idiot Americans, if Europeans are able to visit Europe, what excuse do you have?

    Money?

    Not all Europeans are able to visit the US. Just as not all here are able to go to Europe.

    It is a little more in reach for a middle-class European family as, in Europe, there are a mandated number of vacation days. Here in the US, I know people making $50k who get zero actual vacation days. If they want to go on vacation, they do not get paid. At all. Which kind of puts a crimp in going overseas. Or even to Yellowstone.

    I am lucky. I grew up in the NPS. When the kids were younger, we were able to take two family vacations to Yellowstone. These days, the only way I get to an exotic locale is when it is on fire. Or the fire is nearby (that’s how I got to Crater Lake a few years back (another place that should be on one’s dream list)).

  68. 70
    karleyjohnston

    No Dinosaur National Monument?!? SHENANIGANS

  69. 71
    Teh Merkin

    My first vote went to: Ken Ham’s Piglet “Petting” Zoo.

  70. 72
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    No, but we’re talking fantasy here, aren’t we?

    Are we?

    Besides, if you’re going to go as far as the Grand Canyon from, say, New York, Mexico is closer, and more of a life-changing experience.

    I renewed my passport a few years ago. It cost me $167. Do you really think this added cost for three or more people will keep such a vacation affordable?

    It’s not really a life-changing experience for a kid. Same standard of living, same language, a milder version of the same culture.

    Not all vacations are or have to be “life-changing.” I have fond memories of a two-week trip to a coastal town not far from our hometown when I was 8.

  71. 73
    Herr Mann

    #59: They’re also deleting votes… Just a few moments ago the “Yellowstone Nationsl Park, WY” had 0 votes. And it seems that they’re deleting the Creation “Museum” spoof entries and adding their votes to the correct one.

    This a silly, silly poll indeed.

  72. 74
    some bastard on the net

    What, no LHC? How could anyone forget the LHC?! I don’t care what branch of science you favor, that thing is just bitchin’!

    I’m putting it in there, right now!

  73. 75
    some bastard on the net

    Apparently I didn’t notice that it only accepts U.S. entries.

    Those bastards, they’re killing DREAMS!!

  74. 76
    qwerty

    I voted for the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History which has the highest vote total next to the Creotard Museum.

    I see that some wag nominated PZ Myers.

  75. 77
    frog

    People seem to forget the sheer size of the USA. If one visits New York, Houston, and LA, it’s kind of going to London, Rome, and Prague in terms of distance.

    In terms of cultural change, only an ignoramus thinks that the US has a homogeneous culture. Just because the language doesn’t change much, it doesn’t mean it’s the same place. I’m one of the folks who’s been privileged to travel to a couple of foreign countries, and there are plenty of USA cities much more alien to my eyes than Tokyo or Calcutta.

  76. 78
    Louis

    Davem, #66,

    A bit like me travelling to Yorkshire :0)

    Don’t! According to myself, Dianne and Ogvorbis, it’s full of whippet carrying Texans. Or something.

    I went there once and they turned me into a newt.

    If you must visit be sure to try the outstanding natural scenery, the excellent beer and the charms of a woman with pierced nipples from the Bavarian bar in the centre of Leeds. {cough} Allegedly.

    Louis

  77. 79
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I went there once and they turned me into a newt.

    So you are typing on a water-resistant keyboard? A really, really small one?

  78. 80
    Matt Penfold

    Yorkshire certainly has good beer. It is home to my favourite brewery in the entire world: The Black Sheep Brewery.

  79. 81
    Louis
    I went there once and they turned me into a newt.

    So you are typing on a water-resistant keyboard? A really, really small one?

    I got better.

    Louis

  80. 82
    doktorzoom

    Markr1957 @ 55:

    Where are the pyramids on the list? The Parthenon? Stomehenge?

    Well, there’s the Luxor casino in Las Vegas, the Parthenon replica in Nashville TN, and of course Carhenge and Manhattanhenge

  81. 83
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Louis:

    Thank you for helping with my MPMotD.

  82. 84
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Well, there’s the Luxor casino in Las Vegas, the Parthenon replica in Nashville TN, and of course Carhenge and Manhattanhenge

    I’ve actually been to Carhenge (we were coming back from a vacation in the Black Hills of South Dakota when the kids were young). It is both underwhelming (smaller than expected) and overwhelming (someone had way the fuck too much time).

  83. 85
    brucecoppola

    The exception to Canada’s similarity to the USA is, of course, Quebec. It’s quite possible, even in Montreal, to forget you’re in North America. At least that’s what my wife and I felt on an extended visit there some years ago.

  84. 86
    georgemontgomery

    Foamhenge

  85. 87
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Even in Europe, there are people who can’t afford to travel. For instance, in Germany, 6.7m out of 80m people receive welfare assistance, incl. 1.7m children.

    While they may go on vacation, vacation is considered a luxury, and there is no financial support from the state for that. Moreover, going on vacation will arouse suspicions that you’re hiding income, and even if you have a friend who invites you to go on a luxury vacation for 2000 EUR, then this will be considered “special income” and deducted from your assistance. Of course, if you can justify your vacation destination with visiting family/friends, it might be ok, but that limits your options drastically.

  86. 88
    Louis

    For the all time “Award for Vastly Too Much Time on His Hands” I nominate the Rock Garden in Chandigarh, India. I’ve been there, I’ve seen it, it is interminable.

    In many ways I am still there. It was amazing…for the first 3 hours of walking through it. The second 3 hours began to grate a little. By the third month, I was getting a little frantic and towards the end of my fourth decade of trying to escape I just resigned myself to it and died.

    Louis

  87. 89
    firefly

    @some bastard, #75

    Fermilab in Batavia, IL it is then.

    —-

    On the cost, traveling is very expensive and sadly simply not possible for many people. I have lived in TN for just over a year now (moved here from England) and I have made it as far as a trip to West Virginia in that time.

  88. 90
    Cat's Staff

    With a little help from regex, here’s the current standings beyond the top 5…

    U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL – 1731
    Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC – 1496
    Alabama Space and Rocket Center, AL – 1342
    Grand Canyon, NV – 1235
    Creation Museum, KY – 1187
    Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC – 981
    Kennedy Space Center, FL – 958
    Yosemite National Park, CA – 819
    The Statue of Liberty, NY – 670
    USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, AL – 557
    Boston (…), MA – 549
    Niagra falls, NY – 473
    Mount Rushmore, SD – 467
    Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, IL – 445
    American Museum of Natural History, NY – 441
    The Mall and monuments in DC, DC – 423
    Gettysburg Civil War Battlefield, PA – 379
    White house, DC – 366
    Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, OR – 361
    Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM – 330

  89. 91
    Travis

    I see a few people mentioning they are voting for this or that specific place, but I think people should be upvoting the leaders as well as many of the other ones that are not the creation museum. Remember, you can vote for as many as you want. It would be bad if everyone started voting for the lower ones and allowed the creation museum to creep up as the top 4 get neglected.

    Also, I am sad to see the unflattering entry about PZ is gone. I wish copied the exact name of the place the person nominated.

  90. 92
    wanstronian

    I think kids should see the Creation “museum,” as soon as they’re old enough to understand that it’s a shining example of arse-brained fuck-wittery.

  91. 93
    markr1957

    Markr1957, for pete’s sake, scroll up and read the thread. Not every American CAN travel abroad for financial reasons.

    Seriously, the classism here…

    As a former UK citizen who came here and became a citizen by choice I simply want people here to try and see a bit of the lifestyle differences that made their great grand-parents leave to get away from what Europeans had to live through.

    Imagine seeing the Palace at Versailles when you live in a mud hovel, or Balmoral Castle when you just got evicted from your bothy in the Highlands. The difference in living standards is an obscenity everyone should know about – especially the low income people here who think they’re doing us all a favor by voting for their overlords because their minister told them to.

  92. 94
    doktorzoom

    Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, OR

    Anyone looking for the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum in Oregon is going to be as disappointed as those looking for the Alamo in Arizona or the Grand Canyon in Nevada. Sure, there’s the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum, which is home to the Spruce Goose, so at least this listing isn’t quite as wildly inaccurate…but yeesh, that whole list is a testament to American Geography Fail.

  93. 95
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    As a former UK citizen who came here and became a citizen by choice I simply want people here to try and see a bit of the lifestyle differences that made their great grand-parents leave to get away from what Europeans had to live through.

    Great. May I presume you’re going to pay for their travel expenses?

  94. 96
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Ms. Daisy, you have to admit, it’s hilarious to see someone who had the money to move to the US from the UK by choice and to travel around getting outraged lecturing people who have to choose between healthcare and keeping this lights on about their duty to proper class awareness is funny as fuck. I mean, that kind of total lack of self-awareness is amazing. What are these families who can’t afford to go on vacations going to eat on the Markr1957-mandated tour to understand class inequalities? Oh right, duh! Cake.

  95. 97
    HappiestSadist, Repellent Little Martyr

    Also, Markr15957, poor people fucking know what class inequality is anyway. It’s fucking everywhere, in every second of every day. If you think people should spend their nonexistent vacations of field trips gawking at even more of it, perhaps you should examine your own fucking class privilege.

  96. 98
    neuroturtle

    Really, the U.S. Space and Rocket Center should be far and away the leader, as there is no “Alabama Space and Rocket Center.” The USSRC (affectionately known as Sprocket by the locals) just happens to be located in Alabama. Those votes should be added together. Doing so moves the Creation Museum up to 4th place, though. =/

    The area is pretty heavily religious… I bet the same people are voting for USSRC and for the Creation Museum. Another fine feature of Huntsville, Alabama is the ridiculous number of churches, including First Baptist aka Eggbeater Jesus, and Whitesburg Baptist aka Fort God.

  97. 99
    counsel

    The Smithsonian Natural History is almost there. One more push!!

  98. 100
    jeffsherry

    Strange that the Grand Canyon NV has a higher listing than the Grand Canyon AZ.

  99. 101
    Glen Davidson

    Strange that the Grand Canyon NV has a higher listing than the Grand Canyon AZ.

    Thank God. Nevada’s closer to where I live.

    Glen Davidson

  100. 102
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Strange that the Grand Canyon NV has a higher listing than the Grand Canyon AZ.

    Grand Canyon, NV has been on the list longer than Grand Canyon, AZ. That might explain it.

  101. 103
    richardelguru

    @Markr1957
    “just got evicted from your bothy in the Highlands”

    But and Ben, surely.

  102. 104
    pelamun, the Linguist of Doom

    Markr1957,

    seems to be woefully ignorant of the situation of people in developing countries. They do have these things called TVs*) and watch these things called soap operas, which present them with the life style their respective nation’s elite enjoys (often with a rags-to-riches American Dream style plot thrown in). So they do have an idea, and some of them might even move out to the national/regional capital, or go abroad for work if given the chance.

    *) If not at home, there usually is a neighbour/relative/friend in the next town who has a set, or a community centre etc, true there are some truly isolated communities, so this may not apply to all regions, but it’s not like you need to fly them to Versailles to make them understand that there is a wealth gap.

  103. 105
    echidna

    Well, the Grand Canyon isn’t listed at all anymore.????

  104. 106
    JesseW, the Juggling Janitor

    Current top 25:

    3810: U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    1963: Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    1719: Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    1505: Kennedy Space Center, FL
    1451: Creation Museum, KY
    1271: Yosemite National Park, CA
    823: American Museum of Natural History, NY
    823: The Statue of Liberty, NY
    726: Boston (Freedom Trail, Harbor, Navy Shipyard, Commons, Beacon Hill, etc.), MA
    695: Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, IL
    644: USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, AL
    584: Niagra falls, NY
    567: Mount Rushmore, SD
    549: Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, OR
    510: The Mall and monuments in DC, DC <- This is NUMBER 15! ***
    506: Gettysburg Civil War Battlefield, PA
    470: NASA – Johnson Space Center – Houston, TX
    453: White house, DC
    451: Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM
    370: Acadia National Park, ME
    333: Mammoth Caves National Park, KY
    326: National Air and Space Museum, DC
    299: Great Smokey Mountains National Park, TN
    281: Disneyland, CA
    262: Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, HI

    List generated with the following javascript code (run with the bookmarklet shell)

    function getN(a) {return a.getElementsByTagName("em")[0].innerHTML;}; function getName(a) {var b=a.getElementsByTagName("a");for(var x=0;x<b.length;x++) {if (b[x].href) {return b[x].textContent}}}; function sortF(a,b) {return (getN(b)-getN(a));}; var a=document.getElementById("cst-nominees-list").getElementsByTagName("li");var z=[];for(x=0;x<a.length;x++) {z.push(a[x])}; z.sort(sortF); for (x=0;x<25;x++) { print(getN(z[x])+": "+getName(z[x])+(x===14 ? " <- This is NUMBER 15! ***" : "" )) }

  105. 107
    echidna

    Ah, the Grand Canyon, AZ was a previous winner, so it is disallowed.

  106. 108
    j.workerbee

    Just a thought/suggestions…the website notes that they are possibly going to balance for geography. Since the talibangelicals got a early headstart on the Cretin Museum in the Kentucky, the rationialists need other options in that region. So, my suggestion is that we also upvote attractions that actually show the natural beauty of this region that were made by realworld forces….

    …so I suggest a campaign of ALSO upvoting Mammoth Cave Park and Smokey Mountains. You can vote for these, in addition to the higher voted attractions in other parts of country.

  107. 109
    Teh Merkin

    Shame they are deleting entries. Vote for the Ken Ham National Porcine Insemination Laboratory while you still can.

  108. 110
    dianne

    This time you’re making an assumption that everyone in America has the time or the money to go outside of the US to travel. Most Americans don’t.

    No, I’m making the assumption that people willing to consult a list of things children MUST see probably have enough money for a vacation. Do people without paid vacation really have the resources to consider whether to go to the Smithsonian or the Creation Museum? Their choice will more likely to be dictated by whether they live in DC or Kentucky than by whether we vote for the Smithsonian over the Creation Museum.

    I’m also surprised that someone living in Texas would automatically assume that it would cost more to travel outside the US than within. It’s cheaper for a south Texan to drive over the border to Mexico and spend the day there than to take a flight to DC or NYC.

  109. 111
    dianne

    BTW: Forgot to add that the comment about the Alamo being small is a reference to an old running joke in San Antonio that visitors’ first comment on seeing the Alamo is that it’s smaller than they expected. I suspect you’re too young to have heard that line.

  110. 112
    Algernon

    As a former UK citizen who came here and became a citizen by choice I simply want people here to try and see a bit of the lifestyle differences that made their great grand-parents leave to get away from what Europeans had to live through.

    What makes you think our great grandparents weren’t born here?

  111. 113
    echidna

    Mammoth Caves, KY is special to me. A vector map of these caves was turned in to the first Adventure game: Colossal Caves. Good times. I really want to see them one day.

  112. 114
    Algernon

    I wouldn’t really want to take a vacation just across the border right now anyway. Things are kind of stressful, and some of my friends are afraid even to visit their family. But as some one who flies a lot, cost of tickets for international is more than domestic generally. I can fly to NYC for much much cheaper than London. I can fly to Oregon for less than a flight to Canada.

    Also, there are more airlines to choose from.

    I can also take a train in some instances (though not very well from Texas) which is something I can’t do well in another country. There is no currency exchange problem with my money amounting to less. Also, cost of hotels are much less generally.

    I do know some people who take church sponsored vacations to Africa that involve a day or so of slumming it after which they emerge with a profound sense of self importance. Maybe you’d like that Markr1957!

    I do think that travel out of US borders is good and important, I really do. I just think that if you were a little more aware of the inequity you’re talking about you’d realize why a lot of people don’t manage it with their kids.

  113. 115
    Algernon

    As a kid I really enjoyed seeing the Pueblos in New Mexico and white sands.

    It is one of two vacations my family ever took, do-able by driving and on a low cost if you live in the Texas or the Southwest.

  114. 116
    dianne

    I wouldn’t really want to take a vacation just across the border right now anyway. Things are kind of stressful, and some of my friends are afraid even to visit their family.

    True, it’s not really safe. Thanks to one of the US’s more notable exports to Mexico, aka guns. But it is cheap.

  115. 117
    inflection

    Yosemite is at 1441 to the Creation Museum’s 1489. We’re nearly there — get your friends to vote Yosemite!

  116. 118
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Things are looking up!

    #1:U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    #2:Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    #3:Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    #4:Kennedy Space Center, FL
    #5:Creation Museum, KY

  117. 119
    Markita Lynda—threadrupt

    Do search the nominations a bit because some things seem to be entered two or three times with different variations, e.g. National park of Attraction vs. Attraction Name. or Blah Museum vs. EsteemedSponsor Museum of Blah.

  118. 120
    alektorophile

    Never heard of the US Space and Rocket Center, does it deserve to be at the top of the list? I have been to Kennedy Space Center in FL as a kid, I imagine it is a very similar kind of attraction?

    To be fair, if by attraction one means educational opportunity, I can see the educational value of a visit to the cretin museum. Something akin to taking one’s child to a slum to teach him that the world is not always a fair and nice place and that there are problems that need addressing, such as poverty in case of slums or ignorance in case of the cretin museum.

    In any case, the AMNH in NY deserves to be at the top of the list. Best museum anywhere by far, and pretty good human evolution exhibit.

  119. 121
    alektorophile

    That is, not really ignorance per se, but religion and its delusions in case of the cretin museum.

  120. 122
    Amphiox

    Will your nation ever get tired of gazing at its own navel while fantasizing that its birth was the most momentous event to ever be ordained by the one true god?

    This phrase applies equally well to virtually every nation on this planet.

    And if some of them still haven’t managed it after several thousand odd years, it is a tad unfair to expect the USA, with its paltry three and quarter some centuries, to have done it already.

    I mean, it’s not like the US is somehow special, or something, right?

  121. 123
    Koshka

    Corporal Ogvorbis #68,

    Christ, you idiot Americans, if Europeans are able to visit Europe, what excuse do you have?

    Money?

    If Europeans carefully select their destination, it is actually quite inexpensive for them to visit Europe.

  122. 124
    Jafafa Hots

    Went to Mammoth Cave (they didn’t use an s back then) when I was a kid, it was awesome. I’ve always wanted to go back.

  123. 125
    MissEla

    If you’re out near Oregon, the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry is a great place to visit. It’s a fully interactive museum, with everything from geometric puzzles to an earthquake simulator (like you need a simulator on the coast :P ). They also have a traveling exhibit that visits libraries and public schools!

  124. 126
    JesseW, the Juggling Janitor

    Here are the current rankings:

    5856: Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    4236: U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    1961: Yosemite National Park, CA
    1960: Kennedy Space Center, FL
    1816: Creation Museum, KY
    1431: American Museum of Natural History, NY
    1086: The Statue of Liberty, NY
    1079: Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, IL
    923: Boston (Freedom Trail, Harbor, Navy Shipyard, Commons, Beacon Hill, etc.), MA
    755: Niagra falls, NY
    743: USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, AL
    703: Mount Rushmore, SD
    653: NASA – Johnson Space Center – Houston, TX
    645: Gettysburg Civil War Battlefield, PA
    625: The Mall and monuments in DC, DC <- This is NUMBER 15! ***
    582: Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM
    581: White house, DC
    511: Acadia National Park, ME
    457: National Air and Space Museum, DC
    441: Mammoth Caves National Park, KY
    381: Great Smokey Mountains National Park, TN
    370: Disneyland, CA
    336: Musuem of Natural History, NY
    335: Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, HI
    328: Everglades National Park, FL

    We need over 1200 votes to put the Creation Musuem out of the top 15. Everyone **you can vote for //all// the attractions** once a day. Go for it!

  125. 127
    Trorbes

    Now here’s a peculiarity:

    #1:Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    #2:U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    #4:Kennedy Space Center, FL
    #5:Yosemite National Park, CA
    #6:Creation Museum, KY

    It appears to be skipping over #3, almost as if it’s trying to keep the Creation Museum on the top.

  126. 128
    evilerik

    To whoever mocked Yorkshire, I won’t have anyone badmouth Whitby. The rest – knock yourself out :)

  127. 129
    scorpy1

    Curious, I could understand BudgetTravel removing the “Alabama Space & Rocket Center” since the correct place was already nominated, but it made no sense to eliminate the “Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC” after it knocked out the Cretin museum.

    I second Trorbes…something is fishy about these results.

  128. 130
    Dr Marcus Hill Ph.D. (arguing from his own authority)

    If Markr1957 emigrated from the UK to the US because of the lower level of inequality between the rich and the poor, I must congratulate him on his longevity. The atrocious state of the American Social Security system means it has had a far higher gap between rich and poor than anywhere in Western Europe for a considerable period of time.

  129. 131
    gussnarp

    The Creation Museum fell to number five yesterday, now it’s back up to number three, so the creationists are hitting this hard. They have an advantage in that they only have to figure out how to spell to only have one item to vote for. But if we want the Creation Museum out of the top five we all need to go back every day and vote for whatever is right behind the Creation Museum at the moment we vote. It’s probably counted by IP address, so be sure to do it from home as well as from work, Starbucks, wherever.

    Also, the eliminating number three thing may be a glitch, it did that for a moment, then went back to listing it when I reloaded.

  130. 132
    Dr Marcus Hill Ph.D. (arguing from his own authority)

    No, don’t just vote for whatever is right behind. Vote for everything that isn’t the Creation museum. You can vote (according to the site, actually more in practice) once a day for each attraction.

  131. 133
    gussnarp

    Once for each? OH, OK, then I’ve got a lot of voting to do…

  132. 134
    Travis

    I get the feeling the creationists have much more staying power in this type of thing than we do sadly. We can easily beat a poll that is lopsided and does not have a huge number of votes, or one that closes fairly quickly, but this one is going to be open for many more days. I fear they are going to win out on this one.

  133. 135
    David Marjanović

    it made no sense to eliminate the “Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC” after it knocked out the Cretin museum.

    Maybe some idiot temporarily confused it with the Smithsonian Museum of American History, which is close by but an entirely different museum.

  134. 136
    David Marjanović

    The Dinosaur National Monument is there.

    Both in Colorado and in Utah.

  135. 137
    David Marjanović

    I get the feeling the creationists have much more staying power in this type of thing than we do sadly. We can easily beat a poll that is lopsided and does not have a huge number of votes, or one that closes fairly quickly, but this one is going to be open for many more days. I fear they are going to win out on this one.

    LOL! I have a bookmark button.

    I shall not forgive
    I shall not forget
    I’m too unimaginative to come up with a pseudonym.

  136. 138
    JesseW, the Juggling Janitor

    Current rankings:

    4593: U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    4096: Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    2646: Creation Museum, KY
    2622: Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    2423: Yosemite National Park, CA
    2336: Kennedy Space Center, FL
    1895: American Museum of Natural History, NY
    1407: Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, IL
    1379: The Statue of Liberty, NY
    1157: Boston (Freedom Trail, Harbor, Navy Shipyard, Commons, Beacon Hill, etc.), MA
    917: Niagra falls, NY
    836: USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, AL
    835: Mount Rushmore, SD
    806: NASA – Johnson Space Center – Houston, TX
    796: Gettysburg Civil War Battlefield, PA <- This is NUMBER 15! ***
    760: The Mall and monuments in DC, DC
    715: Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM
    701: White house, DC
    623: Acadia National Park, ME
    599: National Air and Space Museum, DC
    557: Mammoth Caves National Park, KY
    462: Great Smokey Mountains National Park, TN
    441: Disneyland, CA
    419: Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, HI
    418: Musuem of Natural History, NY

  137. 139
    McCthulhu, now with -25% less fat.

    I have a feeling that trying to Pharyngulate this poll is like pissing in the ocean. As pointed out in #127, I also suspected this thing is being played from the website end, especially when the ‘Cretinist’ museum postings were just added together for one big middle finger, numbers are disappearing to keep it in the top five, and other museums that could have been joined for larger votes just vanished.

    You may remember the poll on that creationist website last year where the question changed mid-poll so people doing the poll-bot approach ended up supporting creationism. Someone at this travel site IS a creatard and fudging the results in favor of their mind-leprosy. I hate to advocate ‘ignore it and it will go away’ but that’s probably the better option since this one is just going to be another ocean piss.

  138. 140
    ledasmom

    We were rather disappointed that “Kent Hovind’s Prison” disappeared from the list. However, it is now possible to vote for an attraction that will provide at least as much reality as the Creation Museum – JLA headquarters.

  139. 141
    myeck waters

    Makes you wonder why ALL of the Grand Canyon entries were deleted.

  140. 142
    Herr Mann

    I found out the Grand Canyon already won on the previous list, that’s why they keep deleting the new entries.

    And aw, they deleted my Grave of the Dead Gods entry, in Morris, MN…

  141. 143
    myeck waters

    Thanks for that info, Herr Mann.

  142. 144
    Glen Davidson

    Took quite a while to get the stupid out of the top five, but at the time of this posting these are the five highest:

    #1:U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    #2:Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    #3:Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    #4:Yosemite National Park, CA
    #5:Kennedy Space Center, FL

    Read more: http://www.budgettravel.com/contest/nominate-15-places-kids-should-see-before-15,10/#ixzz1mhBoTRcu

    Budget’s little piggyback above is just fine, since it would be good if people would continue to vote for the higher non-stupid sites every day.

    Glen Davidson

  143. 145
    Glen Davidson

    Took quite a while to get the stupid out of the top five again

    Thought I’d put “again” in there, because I believe it was knocked out previously.

    Glen Davidson

  144. 146
    Glen Davidson

    Damned dirty atheists have no right to vote in open polls, notes a pig rapist.

    And please, don’t bother me that he didn’t exactly say those things. For the a-hole to suggest that we have no right to vote or point to the idiocy and dishonesty of his appalling “ministry” amounts to pretending that we lack the rights that genocide-praisers like himself own.

    Feel properly chastised.

    Glen Davidson

  145. 147
    markr1957

    For all my faults, and I admit to having many, “classism” isn’t one of them when you have to join the Army at age 17 because your parents can’t afford to keep you in school despite both being RNs – the British NHS doesn’t pay at all well. The British Army picks its officers by family name, not education, and they (mostly) don’t like smart-ass other ranks showing them up for the dummies they often are, meaning I had to work for everything I got out of life.
    For choosing to come to America I admit naivety was the driving force for me. You have RIGHTS over here while I grew in the UK where, during my childhood and much of my adult life, we had none – at least none in written law. As a serviceman I had to give up what few rights I did have, in particular the right to be gay, even though I really didn’t know it when I joined but once in I faced jail time for certain, and probably many beatings if found out. Playing that particular game of hiding who I really was led to some of my darkest years during which I had to play the sexist misogynist card to the max, and to behaving in ways for which I can never forgive myself even though nothing I did was strictly criminal.
    So yes I admit to many faults while continually striving to improve myself, but one thing I cannot be accused of is ‘classism’. Clearly asking for foreign sights to be on the list was wishful thinking but the point I was trying to make is that children need to see where unequal distribution of wealth in the extreme gets you before we end up living it.

  146. 148
    Glen Davidson

    I put the Scientology Museum on the list, pointedly comparing it to the Creation Museum.

    Glen Davidson

  147. 149
    Glen Davidson

    The stupid squad is out in all of its idiocy today, and the Creation “Museum” is back at #3:

    #1:U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    #2:Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    #3:Creation Museum, KY
    #4:Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    #5:Yosemite National Park, CA

    Read more: http://www.budgettravel.com/contest/nominate-15-places-kids-should-see-before-15,10/#ixzz1mmF5l82M

    Remember, you can vote once per day for as many sites as you like. All of those with higher numbers would be a good choice.

    Glen Davidson

  148. 150
    JesseW, the Juggling Janitor

    Current rankings:

    Note that they’ve extended the contest to the 28th.

    6271: U.S. Space and Rocket Center, AL
    5826: Smithsonian Museum of American History, DC
    5195: Creation Museum, KY
    5114: Yosemite National Park, CA
    4892: Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, DC
    4447: Kennedy Space Center, FL
    3659: American Museum of Natural History, NY
    2596: Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum, IL
    2430: The Statue of Liberty, NY
    2133: Boston (Freedom Trail, Harbor, Navy Shipyard, Commons, Beacon Hill, etc.), MA
    1762: Niagra falls, NY
    1684: NASA – Johnson Space Center – Houston, TX
    1564: Mount Rushmore, SD
    1512: Gettysburg Civil War Battlefield, PA
    1359: The Mall and monuments in DC, DC <- This is NUMBER 15! ***
    1313: USS Alabama Battleship Memorial Park, AL
    1264: Carlsbad Caverns National Park, NM
    1263: White house, DC
    1215: National Air and Space Museum, DC
    1043: Acadia National Park, ME
    945: Mammoth Caves National Park, KY
    881: Corning Museum of Glass, NY
    769: Great Smokey Mountains National Park, TN
    732: Disneyland, CA
    702: Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, HI

  149. 151
    scorpy1

    Just FYI, the poll has been extended another week “due to popular demand”

  150. 152
    Glen Davidson

    15 More Places Every Kid Should See Before 15

    Notice what is missing from the list–the anti-science place that received the most votes.

    Good for Budget Travel, since they can hardly say that any nomination should be an educational experience, yet include an anti-educational place like the Creation Museum.

    Glen Davidson

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