I’ve been targeted by KotakuInAction, that wretched hive of gamergate villainy. My crime? I reviewed Greta Christina’s book, Bending, without declaring that she was a writer on “MY” network. It’s a silly complaint, but the funniest thing is how much the gamergaters get wrong.
I lost track of how many outright fabrications and errors there were in these comments…without even counting the fact that they spelled my name three different ways.
They also advance various conspiracy theories, like that we put up “Jen MccReight” as a figurehead while we masterminded the nefarious deeds of the group.
I’m still trying to figure out how creating an online forum gives us the power to blacklist all of atheism we don’t like. Or how that would affect people who don’t subscribe to the forum.
That other camp of enemies (there are many camps besieging me; I see their campfires flickering in the night), the Intelligent Design wackos, are whining about Larry Moran and his authority — they also drag in me and just about every other biology blogger who criticizes ID. We apparently don’t count unless we’re publishing cutting edge research in evolutionary theory all the time. Not that they have to do likewise.
The big problem with their argument, I think, is that they’re overstating the difficulty of their arguments. You don’t need to be the World’s Greatest Scientist to see through the bullshit ID is peddling; basic competence in one’s field and a little familiarity with creationist arguments is sufficient to equip one with everything necessary to knock ’em down time and again. You really don’t need a top-flight cardiac surgeon to put a band-aid on a boo-boo, and you don’t need to be publishing 40 papers a year in Nature to tear apart the follies of creationism.
In fact, what’s most useful in preparing to deal with creationists is an active teaching career. A research career prepares you to address a narrow topic in great depth; teaching helps you acquire the breadth of knowledge you need to correct ignorant flibbertigibbets.
I didn’t know there were that many ways to spell “PZ”?
In the world of ID, argument from authority is not only not regarded as a fallacy, it is also the only kind of argument they’re willing to accept.
Waaaait… hang on.
What?
Guys, no. Elevatorgate wasn’t a movement. Nor was Watergate, for that matter – it was a hotel (and still is, as far as I know). I think gamergate is probably the first instance of the X-gate thing being used as a movement’s name. I can’t say I’m surprised that they’re confused about that, though. From what I’ve seen of them, they seem to be confused by everything. They’re like ICP – fucking rationality; how does that work?
I’m still waiting for the IDiots to prove their case. Which starts with showing their designer/deity isn’t imaginary…Otherwise, all they have is delusional presuppositions.
Them, yeah.
Wait we’ve got them now!
After all, they themselves failed to declare that they’re posting on the same internet as everyone else, right?
Isn’t flibbertigibbets one of the side order options on the TGI Friday’s menu? A nice compliment to the chicken and bacon fajita wrap melt.
They keep claiming RationalWiki is part of “Atheism+” too. As far as I know, there are literally zero people in common.
Of course, this is using “Atheism+” as a snarl word for “atheist but not an asshole like me”. IT’S AAAALLLLLL CULTURAL MAAAAARXISSSMMMMMMM
Is Atheism+ actually active at all? The RW page marks it as dead, but I’ve heard non-assholes mention it as if it’s active.
For some reason, every time I read one of those GGer’s pathetic little rants, I can’t help but see Don Quixote tilting at windmills.
Oh geez, I thought I’d gotten away from those GG idiots. Look, I’ll still refer to myself as a gamer, if only because I play video games, but they don’t speak for us overall or me specifically.
As for ID, if they ever came up with new arguments, rather than their tired old trite, perhaps people would need to work to refute them. But as long as they use the same old bullshit, anybody with a working browser can google the many, many reasons they are wrong easily enough. It reminds me of the criticism some people have of the arguments against Creationism: There’s no new ground there, people arguing against Creationism are just rehashing refutations. Well, duh, that’s because apologetics in Creationism hasn’t advanced in decades.
Of course PZ is the leader. I’d follow him anywhere. I mean Rebecca Watson. I’d follow Watson anywhere. Whoever. I’d follow our leader anywhere. Just so you know.
a bit of synchronicity by mentioning poor usage of the term ‘movement’. I’ve been listening to Arlo’s Alice’s Restaurant Massacree, where his final ~verse~ mentions, “if 50 people a day come in, sing Alice’s Restaurant, and leave; they’ll think it’s a _movement_ (and they’ll be too young to even know what a movement is {wink})”
The parenthetical phrase is exactly what, the quoted, is referring to. The “enemies” are giving names to things they fall back to calling “movement”, when doing so is very mistaken. “Movement”, at this time, is approaching the status of being an archaic artifact of “the Sixties”.
Too bad they don’t know I’m really pulling all the strings. Dance, puppets, dance!!! Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.
addendum to 12:
“-gate”, as a suffix, is to indicate a label for a Scandal. To think it is appropriate for a movement‘s name is not even wrong.
Actually, GGers seem quite incapable of telling you what they really are. Yes, a movement is one thing one could call them, but some among them seem to dislike the term, because it implies some sort of overarching plan, goal and organization. Some refer to it as a consumer revolt or just a loose assortment of people with sometimes overlapping goals. The point behind this, I think, is to be able to claim the supposed victories of GG for their group, while denying any responsibility for the shitty things they do. So when somebody says “GGers did this shitty thing”, they simply claim that it wasn’t GG since GG isn’t a coherent movement, it was just unassociated trolls or harassers or even “false flag”-operatives. No blame can be placed on GG overall because GG isn’t organized, has no leaders, has no plans or unified goals. Basically, it’s wanting to have their cake and eat it to: Appropriating the positives while applying No True Scotsman to the negatives.
So this is where the Fox News hosts are recruited from?
BTW you should see the kind of mail Mikey Weinstein gets, examples are provided in “Dispatches from the culture wars”
Memetic mutation. Some day, they’ll both be conflated into one person: PZ Watson, Grand Poobah of Atheismbad. It’s about ethics in elevators.
birgerjohansson #16
Yes, and the funniest thing is that they don’t even know that. That’s why they themselves were surprised by Milo Yiannopoulos’ and Christina Hoff Sommers’ support. They are so delusional that they think of themselves as fair and balanced, while the conservatives see them for what they really are – Fox News drones.
It’s so amusing.
Oh, they could tell you, but “misogynous assholes” doesn’t have a very nice ring to it.
Goodness. All that bilious misinformation, and nary a mention of feminist hair. I’m disappointed.
I agree with everyone here 100% because I am skeptical. Those other people are terrible. Long live our leader.
Only when they appear in the light of a full moon. Otherwise, they’re zombie skeletons.
Free, though blogs.
Free, though. Blogs??
I can’t figure out how to punctuate this properly.
Yes, yes, that’s all well and good. But what about the legitimate criticisms?
Such as the fact that you’re the reason I forgot to clear my snorkel tube.
Also, that DJ you have on at noon never plays the songs I like.
Can’t believe you also led the overthrow of Mubarak’s government.
Shame on you, ZaP Meijers.
“Jen MccReight”
That’s the weirdest spelling of Rebekkah Wattsun’s name I’ve ever seen. Whatever happened to “know your enemy”, Sun Tzu?
I’m reminded of this Simpsons clip:
They forgot to mention that Sarkeesian and Watson (Ia! Ia! Shub-niggurath!) are actually the same entity (as are Quinn and Wu) and that their real Gamesheist+ Mistress Plan™ is to take over Gaming™ and Atheism™, to force everyone to play as a woman of colour in Mass Effect and to enforce compulsory attendance at Sunday Assemblies where readings from Louisa May Alcott, Germaine Greer and the Vagina Monologues are shouted at you for five hours by a chorus of progressively angrier and drunker women wearing coveralls.
And let’s not forget their mad scientist lickspittle Prof. Omega Myers – his is the unholy task of MAKING THEM ALL CUPS OF WEIRDLY-NAMED TEA.
Fear ye GAMESHEISMPLUSGATE™!
_________________________________________
This film treatment (c) 2015 Hank_Says
There was a vote, at the last meeting Dr. Mayers (heh), how soon you forget. Rebecca Watson mounted a spirited mutiny that she was destined to win because, as you know, we male slaves of the feminazis were promised we’d get laid. It’s in the minutes.
PZ, I liked your final paragraph. I remember when I got my masters degree and one of the classes was statistical analysis. We spent a week discussing faulty conclusions from reading various “scientific” studies. As I remember it, there were a few students in that class who never did realize that the purpose of our discussions was not to shoot down these papers, but to analyze HOW THOSE PAPERS REACHED THEIR conclusions. And often such an analyses revealed that what they said they concluded was not what was in the data. It really opened my eyes.
I’ve used the critical thinking that that course taught all the time.
There’s something really quite funny going on with KotakuInAction at the moment. See here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/391i2d/massive_brigade_from_rkotakuinaction_on_top/
but the short version is that a mod on a gaming subreddit banned a transphobic prat. The prat whined about it (of course) and the mod offered that if he wrote a 500 word essay on how transphobia affects trans people in the US he would unban him.
Well, you can imagine the reaction, but this comment (real! not made up!) sums it up:
Ah, the salty tears of gamergaters called on their bullshit.
Has Pee Zee Mauyor been rude to poor, downtrodden, unappreciated assholes again?
Viel Feind, viel Ehr :) – German Proverb
(many enemies are a sign of great honor)
@Hank_Says:
OT:
I’ve been wondering ever since I first saw your nym whether it derives from the Myth of Hank or from some other source/experience/your off-line nickname/your off-line legal name/etc. I don’t really wanna invade your privacy if it comes from somewhere else, just kind of curious in a yes/no sense about the Myth of Hank hypothesis.
Although I suppose it could be both/and instead if your legal name is Hank and you happen to kick the shit out of people who leave town without your permission, you billionaire philanthropist, you.
@soul_biscuit, #23:
Ooooh, good grammar puzzle!
Perhaps it’s referring to things that are:
Something else?
ack. really should have been an ellipsis after Though …
I’m not tilting at windmills, I’m over here in the corner drinking wine.
If you don’t share with Porthos, you’re going to be fighting a giant soon, though tilting at one seems preposterously anachronistic.
Of course, if you’re sharing a table and some bottles with Porthos, then you soon will be tilting at a giant, changes in weapons technologies notwithstanding.
Not that that’s a bad thing, as long as Porthos doesn’t notice you drooled on his shirt.
I was “fortunate” enough to get to see elevatorgate from a community frequented by these people. I was a frequent poster on Ponychan’s serious discussion board when Rebecca Watson made her mild and reasonable comment about avoiding behavior that looks creepy in elevators. It was the most irrational outraged bullshit I had gotten to see by that point. Frankly creationists were less polarized, hyperbolic and desperate to paint someone as an enemy of hitlarian proportions.
The underlying theme was simply “that woman/female is doing something I don’t like and we need to make her stop!”. There was absolutely no attempt to provide any reason or logic and the response was large and concerted enough that it was one of the things that made me appeal to the idea of a “de facto conspiracy” (group action based on common characteristics and little actual planning). Because I was a long-time reader at FTB and ScienceBlogs I knew that it was the result of a society loaded up with lots of BS about feminism and motivated reasoning to keep women in a subordinate/submissive position. But it sure looked like a conspiracy. I think they are seeing the same thing.
@Saganite, a haunter of demons
<blockquote cite=""The point behind this, I think, is to be able to claim the supposed victories of GG for their group, while denying any responsibility for the shitty things they do. So when somebody says “GGers did this shitty thing”, they simply claim that it wasn’t GG since GG isn’t a coherent movement, it was just unassociated trolls or harassers or even “false flag”-operatives.</blockquote cite=""
That is a point, though they do not always recognize that in themselves. Leaders and group identity can be a drawback and you are correct about the tactical advantages dismissing or avoiding it that we see in other political conflicts.
I think that it's also worth thinking about the anonymous culture that has been fostered by imageboard communities. Many of these people are already used to operating as loosely associated collectives and taking advantage of the lack of a figurehead or solid structure. I've wondered what an "anon psychology" might be shaped like.
This must still be functionally dealt with on a social level though. Human psychology being what it is if a leaderless and loosely affiliated social collective becomes a threat because of the behavior of some of its members, the people being harmed will grab onto whatever social tool they need to in order to end their suffering. We will settle on the simplest symbol that represents the threat and that became "GamerGate".
If you have no figurehead then leaders are defined in terms of who affects group cohesion and action. That can become literally all of them and it is rational. It's literally rational discrimination on the basis of how reality is arranged. It is a form of stereotyping but as it’s not based on inherent immutable characteristics that society abuses at the group level like race or sex, it becomes a social tool for targeting behavior through group affiliation. We do it with republicans and libertarians and as long as we keep in mind that the goal is basically shame via group affiliation it can help prevent reasoning problems like ad hominems. If they care about their political goals they will start policing behavior.
These people can’t allow themselves to accept the fact that so many people are complaining and organizing around the same problems. They have to have a way of dismissing us individually and as a group. I’ve seen some of them outright admit that their primary tactic is to utterly avoid addressing anything that you are interested in while they repeatedly shove what they want to talk about at you. I’ve had to adapt to that and other BS.
Well that was some impressive formatting fuckups. I wonder how I managed that one.
@3:
The Watergate is a complex of buildings that includes a hotel. The break-in occurred at an office building in the complex.
@rietpluim #11:
PZ is the leader. I should know; I’ve followed a few.
What the world needs now is a device that harnesses the energy of such ‘movements’ and supplies it to the grid…
Yes, I suppose there are ethical concerns. Inasmuch as it would create a financial interest in too many at once not waking up and smelling the bullshit. We might become tempted to farm them, keep them in a fantasy world, pipe in a steady stream of badly produced YouTube videos declaring Anita Sarkeesian Satan and so on…
(… Oh. Wait. Right. Evil… Erm… This totally had hasn’t already happened or anything, GGers. Rage on, then.)
soul_biscuit@23,
freethought blogs. You know, blog authors thinking freely and writing about freethought and stuff.
Given the sheer number of times Voltaire’s prayed gets answered for you, PZ, sometimes I’m a little surprised you’re still an atheist!
Sun Tzu also advised that one should very carefully consider the cost of battle before starting a fight….
That was updated version of the old game of Telegraph, look at how much information changes as it is passed along from random trolls to trolls crying about the manufactured “Elevatorgate” to the Slymepit and finally the continuous rage machine that is GG.
Gamergate is a movement in the same way that your leg jumping upward when your knee is tapped with a hammer is a movement.
They have an equal amount of thought behind them.
As long as they don’t all start singing the campfire song song. http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Campfire_Song_Song
Or maybe you could try singing it preemptively.
I’ll follow anyone who smells of fish.
Not true!
The stretch reflex arc is subject to inhibitory neocortical modulation, a level of sophistication, complexity, and self-control which thus far as not been observed anywhere in Gamergate.
elevatorgate and gamergate are the gatiestgates in the whole history of gaters, gating, and gaterism. I call them gatergategate.
The watergate is actually the end of the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal. The complex was named after it. /needless pedantry
I travelled the length of the C&O, once. I have a picture of the water gate.
@Crip Dyke #33
I’d like to claim “Myth of Hank” as my ‘nym inspiration, but the truth is far more mundane: Hank is a shortening of my given name and it’s exclusive to my friends (and, I guess, the entire internet). No small number of said friends have linked me to “Myth of Hank” tracts over the years though, and I did actually threaten to kick the shit out of my best friend earlier this year when he left Australia and moved to bloody Manchester.
I’ll leave you to speculate on the billions.
“You don’t need to be the World’s Greatest Scientist to see through the bullshit ID is peddling.”
No and I am personally evidence for this. I never even finished university; I’m just a teacher math and physics. I spend four evenings reading Talkorigins; I’ve also read WEIT and What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters. I can easily debunk 95% (I’m cautious here) of IDiocy and other creacrap.
Marcus Ranum wrote:
I’m guessing they were dying to do a Nazi reference but couldn’t figure out a way to fit it into Watson’s name (probably couldn’t get past the female genitalia references they’re all so fond of). Not sure why they bothered to keep the final ‘t’, though.
@8
I just had a look at the forum index (haven’t been there in a loooong time). Still seems active if you define Atheism+ in that way. I’m happy to say I see much admirable, and nothing wrong, with it as defined by Jen (http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/08/atheism/). However, I need organised atheism movements of any shade about as much as I need religion (ok, maybe a little more – good to have advocacy to prevent the dominionists taking over). Not that I have anything against people with similar views, goals and aspirations at all. I just don’t like being told what to think. You don’t either? What do you mean we should hang out? STOP TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!
I’ll just pop the brain leech back into place a go back to doing and thinking what PZ McCreight Watson and the rest of the Hive dictate…
… wut? o_O
Heh. I always thought they were stupid to use the term “Gamergate” as a term to describe everyone who OPPOSES an alleged controversy. But believing that other things with the -gate suffix are also movements in the same manner is just profoundly and hilariously idiotic.
So somehow PZ is not a leader, he’s just a clown. And an advisor. And judge/jury/executioner. Perhaps “leader” sounded too humble. Also: WITCH HUNT!!1!1!!
Oh, and I found bonus sexism! See the line about how Watson is just PZ’s spokesperson? Like how Anita Sarkeesian is “for McIntosh”? Well, turns out McIntosh is a reference to Jonathan McIntosh, her boyfriend: http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/off-topic-31/anongamer-uncovers-possible-anita-sarkeesian-scand-1450691/
The jist: Asshole tries to dig up as much “dirt” as they can and put a nonsensical spin on it. Claims that Jonathan is “the brains behind the operation” because he was an activist since 2006, and had a 2009 article about Tomb Raider being sexist. Also, they travel a lot, so the Tropes vs. Women kickstarter was a scam! (They really fucking the fact that she got Kickstarter money).
It’s pretty obvious what the underlying thought process is: It is only men that matter and only men who act, and any woman of significance is just put there as a pawn or representative of a man.
Watson is just PZ’s representative. Anita Sarkeesian is just her boyfriend’s representative. They have no significance aside from doing what The Man tells them and saying what The Man tells them to say. And this bold assertion is so obvious to them all that it requires barely any evidence at all to “prove”, at least to themselves and their in-group. Telling, isn’t it?
Also, in their concern for PZ’s review of Greta Christina’s book: Ethics in Gaming Journalism. That is what the gaters are all about. Except they can never hit all three points. Worrying about a conflict of interest counts as Ethics, I suppose. But there is nothing at all resembling Gaming, and Amazon Reviews are hardly Journalism.
Gamergate: It’s about Ethics. Or Gaming. Or Journalism. (And also about bashing women and/or left-wingers)
Alternatively
Gamergate: Fair and Balanced.
What amuses me most is the authoritarianism. Soon they’ll have assembled a complete demonology where every Duke of Hell and every Spokesperson of Hell has their place.
Or this one is just a typo. :-)
I think that Larry brought up a few good points about the ID guys. I have yet to see a creationist who actually understands evolutionary biology. Even the ones who have a rudimentary idea of how it works still get tons of stuff wrong. This includes people who should know better, like Behe or Wells, who you think would have studied evolutionary biology while earning their degrees.
It doesn’t even make sense to say that you have to be actively researching a scientific theory in order to understand it. If you’ve studied the theory and understand it, then you understand the theory, that’s all there is to it. This whole thing is just a gambit to justify ignoring the vast majority of people who explain to them why their understanding of natural selection or comparative genomics is wrong. Their arguments are almost entirely based off of misunderstandings of how evolution works, so they’re looking for any excuse to keep using their bogus ideas about it.
Larry also pointed out, correctly, that if they wanted to be consistent about this argument, they would also have to disregard the arguments put out by all of the non-biologists, and non-evolutionary biologists that make up the creationist movement.
It’s about ethics in freethought blogging!
@61 emergence
Behe’s primary example of “irreducible complexity” is the bacterial flagellum. The evolutionary steps leading to the bacterial flagellum were worked out in the 1960s, while Behe earned his PhD in 1978, and his book came out in 1985.
So, from this we learn that: 1) Behe didn’t learn any evolutionary biology while earning his PhD, and B) he was wrong before he even started.
Or, he was deliberately playing stupid through the Dover v. Kitzmiller trial. Besides science being able to show all the flagellum intermediates which he claimed science couldn’t do, Behe said no books had been written on the evolution of the immune system since it was irreproducibly complex. The lawyers doing the cross examination then dumped a dozen books with titles like “Evolution and the Immune System” on the witness stand asking “have you ever seen these”. The Judge Jones got the point.
I thought “Elevatorgate” was the insane response of the people who are now “gamergaters” to Watson’s suggestion that they not hit on strange women in enclosed spaces at odd hours of the night…
On Gates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals_with_%22-gate%22_suffix
http://public.oed.com/aspects-of-english/english-in-use/the-gate-suffix/
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/36800/why-do-we-use-the-suffix-gate-when-referring-to-a-scandal
And an article bemoaning the gate suffix in January of last year. Dramatic irony.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/rieder/2014/01/15/time-to-jettison-the-gate-suffix/4490115/