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May 26 2013

[Lounge #420]

Aistopod

Aistopod

This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. I don’t know if it’s a good idea to accept reader suggestions for the image in lounge posts…

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread

741 comments

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  1. 501
    mildlymagnificent

    Oh dear. Grog. Plenty of. Also delivered.

  2. 502
    opposablethumbs

    Congratulations to Nerd and The Redhead!!!!!
    .
    Shit, Ace of Sevens. It must be very hard to resist being steamrollered in custody when you don’t know the law or anything, and of course they know that. I hope Portia’s link helps.

  3. 503
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I am eating a spinach salad in honor of PZ :P

  4. 504
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    Don’t encourage him. Spinach is an invention of the Devil.

  5. 505
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Nope. Twould be cauliflower, not spinach.

  6. 506
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    Cauliflower? Really? Surely if anything was an invention of the devil it would be the banana. Or Ray Comfort.

  7. 507
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Tee hee…
    Giggle…
    Snort…
    Bwahahahahaha!
    Anyone want to try Gluten free body of Christ?
    http://www.mysecretatheistblog.com/2013/03/some-require-jesus-to-be-gluten-free.html?m=1
    ‘ Certified by The Bishop’s Council in the UK as compliant with the Liturgical Rules of the Roman Catholic Church.

    This altar bread contains Gluten content of 20 part per million or less making it much safer than other Catholic use altar breads typically at upwards of 200 parts per million. Although termed gluten free, this host still has trace amounts of gluten. In the Catholic Church, trace amounts of wheat (which is the source of gluten) are required. Recommended for use by all churches.”

    I’d like to state that I am not trying to make light of anyone who suffers from a gluten allergy. Rather, I am pointing out how absurd it is that Catholics believe they are injesting the body of Christ as if that was beneficial. Yet “he” can cause a terrible reaction in those with Celiac’s disease.

  8. 508
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    Yes, that’s been an arkward little issue…

  9. 509
    rq

    *confetti&sparkles&fireworks for the absence of mortgage (oh how I await the day!).
    *hugs&comfort* for those in need, I hope all situations are resolved quickly.

    And spinach, thank you, is fine… as is cauliflower. Bananas, as we all know, have been invented by a god, but grapes – of Wrath or otherwise – are the One True Invention of the Devil. Just think – perfect choking size, and wine (alcohol!!! sin!! iniquity!!!) is made from… *gasp* Grapes (well, not exclusively, but originally). *horrors*

  10. 510
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    …why is it called “chilli” if it’s hot?

    The Nahuatl’ word for the chili pepper is xilli (the ‘x’ has a hard ‘sh’ pronunciation).

  11. 511
    carlie

    Tony,
    To be even more absurd, that’s a very recent development. I remember a couple of years ago there was a huge stink in the media because someone with celiac had petitioned his diocese for a gluten-free wafer and was turned down. The bishops or whoever it is in control said that ONLY a wafer made of wheat flour was the holy kind, so that guy and people like him could either eat the wheat wafer they gave him and get sick from it or GO TO HELL for not participating in communion. Here’s one example.

  12. 512
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Nerd:

    Congratulations to you and the Redhead! That is fantastic!

  13. 513
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Justin Vacula’s group put up a banner on the public square stating “Nothing Fails Like Prayer.” Of course, the local population freaks out. At the city council meeting (which opens with a prayer!), the mayor of Wilkes-Barre said that he agrees that the banner is hate speech but that, unfortunately, the constitution even gives him freedom of speech.

    How many things can you find wrong with that paragraph?

  14. 514
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Type atari breakout into google, and then do image search :)

  15. 515
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    On the previous page, there was a short discussion about dinosaurs and, more specifically, the various ways that the willfully ignorant deny the evidence. I heard a new one: The dinosaur bones are just regular horse and lizard and rabbit bones that have swelled up to appear giant because of the groundwater. Just heard that one fifteen minutes ago — dad telling that to a small boy.Yes, I bit my tongue. Yes, it hurt. Both physically (tongue) and mentally.

  16. 516
    dianne

    Justin Vacula’s group put up a banner on the public square stating “Nothing Fails Like Prayer.” Of course, the local population freaks out. At the city council meeting (which opens with a prayer!), the mayor of Wilkes-Barre said that he agrees that the banner is hate speech but that, unfortunately, the constitution even gives him freedom of speech.

    How many things can I find wrong…I know I’m going to miss some, but let me at least make a start…
    1. Vacula is such an idiot that if he says nothing fails like prayer I feel the sudden need to test prayer out because if he’s against it maybe there’s something to it after all.
    2. The local population apparently isn’t serious about this “free speech” thing or secure in their beliefs or they’d just roll their eyes at Vacula and say, “Whatever dude”.
    3. Separation of church and state…or not in the case of the WB city council.
    4. Hate speech is not constitutionally protected.If it’s really hate speech then Vacula is likely committing a crime.
    5. It’s not hate speech. No person is being disparaged, only the act of praying. An elected official should know the definition of hate speech.
    6. “Unfortunately”??? The mayor doesn’t sound like he’s very into this free speech and democracy thing. Perhaps the people of WB should demonstrate its workings at the next election.

  17. 517
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Perhaps the people of WB should demonstrate its workings at the next election.

    In the last election, it was this idiot, a libertarian asshat, or a GOP social fundamentalist. Our current mayor was the least destructive choice.

  18. 518
    dianne

    Our current mayor was the least destructive choice.

    Joy.

  19. 519
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    4. Hate speech is not constitutionally protected.If it’s really hate speech then Vacula is likely committing a crime.

    Hate speech actually is. Fighting words are not. Otherwise I completely agree with you.

  20. 520
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Apparently I’m in a contrarian mood this morning. (Woke up earlier than I wanted to, pout).

    From carlie’s link:

    The Vatican also said that Catholics with celiac disease could receive Communion via wine only.

    If the author is correct, they are not condemned to hell for not eating the wheat. Although I suppose there are folks with levels of wheat intolerance that don’t rise to the level of celiac. What about them?

  21. 521
    carlie

    Hm. Good idea, or way to hell paved with good intentions? Superhero cartoon where the hero changes gender.

  22. 522
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    IIRC, T has a gluten allergy, but not Celiac’s disease. She would get a rash if she consumed too much gluten and her stomach would be in knots. So even those who’s (or is it ‘whose’? I can never remember. Where is John M?) allergy to gluten* isn’t extreme can be adversely affected by it.

    *spellcheck on my phone is silly. I initially forgot the ‘L’ in gluten and it corrected as ‘fireman’.

    ****
    Ogvorbis:
    Shame there’s no way to correct that father.

  23. 523
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Carlie

    ~00:35
    particularly adds the wow factor.

  24. 524
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    In fact, I think it sucks to mislead children about stuff like that. I recall the joy I had as a child learning about dinosaurs. I loved seeing them on tv or reading books about them. I loved trying to pronounce their names too. As an adult, I still have an appreciation for them. Last year I downloaded Walking With Dinosaurs from iTunes and enjoyed it immensely.

  25. 525
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Gosh wouldn’t it be amusing if someone at FtB stood up for Justins right to put up that banner? ‘Justin Vacula does something right for a change (dont worry, he reverts to sexist asshat quickly)’

  26. 526
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Tony

    In that sentence it would be “whose” :) If in doubt, try replacing it with “who is” and see if it works.

    Question for everybody. I went to a public-place (library) meet up with the secular humanist group for my first event, just to be safe. Tonight there is a “Pizza and Discussion” gathering at someone’s house. I didn’t get a creepy feeling from anyone, and got good vibes off most people. I am still leery about going by myself but am open to the possibility that I’m feeling overcautious. Any thoughts?

  27. 527
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Tony

    Gosh wouldn’t it be amusing if someone at FtB stood up for Justins right to put up that banner?

    If it helps any: “he was perfectly entitled to put up that banner. “

  28. 528
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    This is from back in 2011 (took me a while to find it (I really am very slow)). This illustrates one of the three mayoral candidates back in the last election (I’m gonna blockquote it because, even though I wrote, I am still quoting myself (is this how the Song of Songs got started (sounds rather recursive to me)))::

    I had a discussion yesterday evening with a local libertarian teaparty mayoral candidate for our small city. I was out on the porch, wearing my cowboy hat, smoking a cigar, and she walked up the sidewalk stuffing campaign brochures in doors. She handed me one and asked who I was planning to vote for?

    (This is not an exact, verbatim, transcript, but it is pretty damn close to reality — especially the rant before I asked her to leave)

    I ignored her question (I have read enough about her in the newspapers to have already formed a very negative opinion) and asked, “Who paid for the sidewalk you just walked up?”

    She paused for a moment and said, “You did, with your high taxes.”

    “No,” I replied. “I didn’t. That sidewalk was already here when I bought my house. It was paid for by previous taxpayers. Who paid for the road your big SUV is sitting on?”

    “You did, with your taxes.”

    “And so did everyone else in the country, since part of the repaving project was paid for through a federal grant.”

    As soon as I paused to take a breath, she jumped in. “But the sidewalks and roads are necessary. Of course we need to pay for those. But most of our taxes go for stuff that nobody wants and most of that gets wasted.”

    “Have you even read our city’s budget? Infrastructure and emergency response are more than half of our budget. Are those waste?

    “You have the damn gall to drive up here in your $60,000 SUV and tell the people on this street that if they stop paying taxes, if public education is defunded, if the streets are allowed to rot, if we go back to 1890 and let the poor die in the streets, they will be better off? You drive on public roads, you are protected by the public police, your company depends on workers who can read, write and do math thanks to public schools, you eat food that you can be reasonably sure is safe, you have clean water and waste disposal, and you have built a good life for yourself taking every advantage of all the hidden good that government does and now you want to make it as hard as possible for anyone in this middle-class neighborhood to follow your example? Get off my lawn.”

    And she did.

    And then I said, “The sidewalk is public. We all paid for that. Enjoy using it as you walk away.”

    The stunned look on her face was precious.

    And then I continued reading Going Postal as I smoked my Romeo y Julieta Reserva Real Minutos Petite cigar.

    Maybe she thought, with the cowboy hat and the cigar, that I was a kindred spirit.

    She was wrong.

  29. 529
    Inaji

    Theophontes! Theo is front and center at Rattitude again. :D

  30. 530
    Lynna, OM

    Fallout continues from the research finding that women are the sole or primary source of income in 40% of homes in the USA.

    The latest round of right-wing flak comes from Brian Fischer:

    I don’t think it’s a healthy dynamic to have a wife out-earn her husband, because so much of his sense of worth as a male is tied up in what he does vocationally and providing for his family. That’s his calling. It’s not his wife’s job to provide for his family; he knows that it’s his job. And if he has a wife who out-earns him, I think that’s going to put some stress on his psyche. It’s going to put some stress on that marriage.

    Right Wing Watch link. Quote above is from the video.

  31. 531
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Well done, Ogvorbis. That was a thing of beauty.

  32. 532
    Lynna, OM

    More on the Brian Fischer nonsense noted in comment #530: Fischer also used such handy catch phrases as “biblical” family model, and he made a point of emphasizing the “physical strength” and “brain power” of men. He is a prime example of the latter.

  33. 533
    dianne

    I don’t think it’s a healthy dynamic to have a wife out-earn her husband, because so much of his sense of worth as a male is tied up in what he does vocationally and providing for his family. That’s his calling. It’s not his wife’s job to provide for his family; he knows that it’s his job.

    Just to point out, in a traditional Jewish family, the woman earns the money and sees to the practical matters of running the family so that the man can complete his “calling” of contemplating god. He doesn’t feel the least bit threatened by her earning more than him or even telling him what to do in matters such as where to live or how to raise the kids because his job is to consider “higher things”. Fischer needs to learn more about traditions outside his own before he starts talking about what “men” do and what “men” find threatening to their psyches. I suspect what he really means is that he would feel threatened by a woman who outearned him, though why a woman with an income would spend 5 minutes with him I don’t know.

  34. 534
    dianne

    Ogvorbis for mayor! Or senator. If you run for senate I can vote for you.

  35. 535
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    I know I probably wouldn’t go, but that has more to do with my level of comfort among a group of people I don’t know very well. Have you swapped numbers with any of them? Maybe your apprehension could be allayed that way.

  36. 536
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ogvorbis:
    That.
    Rant.
    Was.
    Priceless.

  37. 537
    Pteryxx

    Caine sighting! eeeee! you were missed. ♥

    —–

    Portia: apologies because I don’t remember exactly what your concerns are about groups of barely-known people, and as a stranger-friendly critter myself my POV isn’t much help. Would going to someone’s house be stressful just because it’s someone else’s personal home, bathroom, fridge and such that everyone will have to navigate and share? Not just because lots of new people are around? And how comfortable would you feel leaving abruptly if it gets to be too much for you? (with or without a pre-made excuse such as ‘I can’t stay long’ on arrival.)

    re SheZow!… and I was hoping folks would be interested, but not like that article says. From the ads I’ve seen on the Hub, it’s got nothing to do with being transsexual or transgender at all – the main character’s a boy who apparently *freaks out* that his magic superpowers come with a female costume, and he has to *endure* looking female and using pink sparkly accoutrements as the price of having the powers. I read it as all about femmephobia, so just maybe the message conveyed will be that pink sparkly things don’t make you weak or repulsive or incompetent or, heav’s forbid, turn you into a girl. I figured with some trepidation that it’d depend on how the show handles its protagonist going “eww! girl stuff!” after the initial shock. (Though it disturbs me no end that even BEING A FREAKIN’ SUPERHERO isn’t good enough to outweigh the shame of a girly persona.) Guess I shouldn’t be surprised that all the media fuss is about TRANSGENDER!! TRANSSEXUAL!! and not simply ‘what do people think of you just because of your gendered clothing’… though the irony factor is incredible here.

    ‘Nother link to the trailer, since the original appears to be down: Vimeo link

    Sheesh:

    Created by Obie Scott Wade (a writer on Baby Looney Tunes) and produced by Kickstart Productions and Moody Street Kids, SheZow has been airing in Australia since December 2012, and as reported by ABC news, is picking up heat from conservative pundits like the Catholic League’s Bill Donohue who criticized the show for exposing children to gender bending at an inappropriate age. “The target audience here is not adults,” said Donohue. “The target audience are young people, many of whom may be confused about their own sexuality.”

    source (CartoonBrew, not the Daily Mail *ptui*)

    —–

    in awesomeness news via Cracked:

    Actor Christopher Lee, who played Saruman, Dracula, and Count Dooku; who was a personal friend of Tolkien and Ian Fleming, fought in WWII, and was one of the real-life inspirations for James Bond, just turned 91 years old.

    …So he released a metal album. IT’S NOT HIS FIRST.

    Cracked link

    At first glance, the cover art of Christopher Lee’s albums seem like pretty basic collections of heavy metal iconography — swords, kingdoms, Gothic crests, fire, and the dead-eyed glare of a terror wizard.

    But here is where Christopher Lee stands out. That crazy sigil on the back is his family’s actual crest, the coat of arms of the Roman Empire bestowed by the crusading emperor Frederick Barbarossa. Because Christopher Lee’s bloodline used to hang with Charlemagne, meaning all the swords and castles and fire are so deep within his wheelhouse that they’re probably fucking heirlooms.

  38. 538
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    ::his royal Shoopiness waves at Caine::

  39. 539
    Lynna, OM

    This is another “corporations are people” argument, one in which Hobby Lobby contends that corporations have religious rights.

    In the most prominent challenge of its kind, Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. asked a federal appeals court Thursday for an exemption from part of the federal health care law that requires it to offer employees health coverage that includes access to the morning-after pill.

    The Oklahoma City-based arts-and-crafts chain argued that businesses — not just the currently exempted religious groups — should be allowed to seek exception from that section of the health law if it violates their religious beliefs.

    The arguments Thursday centered on the Green family, founders of Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. and a sister company, Christian booksellers Mardel Inc. An eight-judge panel peppered both sides with questions about whether the contraceptives mandate is an undue burden on the Greens’ religious belief.

    The Greens contend that emergency contraception is tantamount to abortion because it can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb. They also object to providing coverage for certain kinds of intrauterine devices….

    Hobby Lobby calls itself a “biblically founded business” and is closed on Sundays. Founded in 1972, the company now operates more than 500 stores in 41 states and employs more than 13,000 full-time employees who are eligible for health insurance….

    http://www.startribune.com/politics/208651741.html

  40. 540
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    The apprehension is based in “this is a private place where there are no passers by if something bad happens.” I can deal with being in someone else’s house, especially if there are several people to hide among if I feel uncomfortable. And I don’t have a problem jetting out if I need to, I don’t think. I’m more concerned with stranger-danger, I guess.

  41. 541
    carlie

    . It’s not his wife’s job to provide for his family; he knows that it’s his job. And if he has a wife who out-earns him, I think that’s going to put some stress on his psyche. It’s going to put some stress on that marriage.

    Which is why that model needs to die, no? I have seen men who are completely brainwashed into that “head of the household” nonsense, and when they are out of work for an extended period of time, the entire family suffers miserably. They are depressed and angry at the world for not living up to the bargain they think they had, they are mad at their wives for daring to be successful when they’re not, they are resentful at any bit of “help” around the house they’re gently asked to provide now that they’re sitting there all day. It’s a really ugly situation. Know what can avoid that situation? Not teaching those guys that their sense of self-worth is tied to their job in the first place.

  42. 542
    Lynna, OM

    I loved the Ogvorbis version of, “Get off my lawn!” Well done. Of course the right-wing politico was driving a $60,000 SUV.

    In other news the Nuns on the Bus campaign is back in the news. This time the progressive, thorn-in-the-hide-of-the-Vatican nuns are promoting immigration reform.

  43. 543
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pteryxx:
    From the SheZow link upthread, I got the impression that this would be a show that subverted gender stereotypes. The main character chooses to transform into a girl with super powers. She is the one that saves the day she is a pivotal driving force on the show. She gets to outperform boys in feats of physical ability (showing that yes, women can and are strong and fast).


    Of course I cannot watch it on my phone. Le sigh…

  44. 544
    carlie

    Hi Caine!!!!!

    The Greens contend that emergency contraception is tantamount to abortion because it can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the womb.

    Can’t a lawsuit be thrown out of court if it is a total lie? Becuase IT DOESN’T DO THAT EVER EVER EVER PROGESTERONE KEEPS PREGNANCIES GOING OH MY GOD BASIC BIOLOGY.

    It doesn’t do that in rats. It doesn’t do that in monkeys. It doesn’t do that in people.

    FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

  45. 545
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    And may I say I am sick of the insipid idea that ‘corporations have rights as people do’?

  46. 546
    Pteryxx

    Portia: to me, that means if something bad goes down, protection comes from the other people in the group. I’d have assumed that myself, but after this last few years of seeing how bad various local freethinker groups can be? Like, what if (worst case scenario) a local group turned out to be a certain JV and his friends? Yeah… I still gauge the odds to be minimal that anything *does* happen, but it sure is justifiable to be concerned. Especially if they all know each other already and you’re the only new person, or one of very few newcomers (or women).

    Gah, I’d totally offer to go and have your back if I were in the vicinity. (And if you were near Texas, and thus the local group was too, ALL THE MORE REASON.)

  47. 547
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    I don’t think it’s a healthy dynamic to have a wife out-earn her husband, because so much of his sense of worth as a male is tied up in what he does vocationally and providing for his family. That’s his calling. It’s not his wife’s job to provide for his family; he knows that it’s his job. And if he has a wife who out-earns him, I think that’s going to put some stress on his psyche. It’s going to put some stress on that marriage.

    BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA. I’m sorry, because it’s really not funny, it’s sad and disturbing, but at the same time, holy fuck, my “sense of worth” (a) has nothing to do with being male and (II) has absolutely nothing to do with what I do for a living. I work because I have to and, as soon as I’m out that door, I’m thinking about something that interests me much more. And “stress on [my] psyche?” If my wife didn’t earn more than me, that would be some stress because then we’d be really poor instead of mostly.

    I just really don’t get this line of thinking in the slightest. They might as well be speaking Klingon.

  48. 548
    Pteryxx

    Tony: re SheZow, yah, ‘subverting gender stereotypes’ is a much better phrase. I’m a bit annoyed if the message ends up that women can be stronger and faster than men due to magical superpowers, but for a target audience of kids that’s probably less important than having a strong, fast, girl-looking superhero *at all* who isn’t just the partner/distaff version of a real male superhero… something sadly lacking in basically the entire freakin’ superhero GENRE going back to the Golden Age. Also, and this is no trivial thing… having a feminine superhero that boys can imagine being. (And by extension, all children of any gender, via a boy-character being the universal default. Basically there’s no hurdle to ID as a girl before imagining oneself playing THIS superhero role… and that’s what makes me wish sooo hard that this show succeeds in its subversion.)

    I have the strong suspicion it’s meant to foster acceptance of kids doing things like this:

    5 year old boy dresses as Daphne for Halloween

    The pink nail polish kerfuffle

    Is it really a big deal that my son wants to be Wonder Woman

    (Also, SheZow isn’t a *sexualized* female persona – no cleavage, no exposed skin. If anything she’s Golden Age with a dash of old lady, going by the hair. ♥ Oh how I hope they can pull that off without tapping ageism for their humor.)

  49. 549
    Pteryxx

    Much better background reading:

    According to the official description of SheZow from The Hub, which is airing the show starting this Saturday, the main character Guy “fancies himself an extreme dude” and has his own macho catch phrase, “It’s a GUY thing.” But when he gets superpowers from his ring, it gives him an “outrageous female superhero costume,” which helps him on “his personal journey to become one heck of a super man.”

    So is this a show, at its heart, about a macho 12-year-old who learns to appreciate femininity? Although Wade insists there’s no agenda to the show, he does say that Guy learns a lot of stuff from becoming SheZow — in one episode, he gets a “sense of super-empathy.”

    [...]

    And the show is absolutely not laughing at girliness or saying that femininity is silly, says Wade. “I think that it shows a very positive role-model in SheZow. There’s been a number of SheZows over the decades, throughout his family. It’s something that’s passed down from generation to generation. And so women are very much honored in the show, and in his family.”

    from io9 via The Mary Sue

  50. 550
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pull out the hankies. A one minute video that will make you cry tears of hope:
    http://www.upworthy.com/i-never-thought-a-1-minute-video-could-punch-me-in-the-heart-yet-here-we-are-3

  51. 551
    Lynna, OM

    We knew this would happen. As soon as the Boy Scouts of America announced that they would accept gay scouts (not gay leaders though), some church-sponsored troops would leave.
    Courier Journal link.

    Southeast Christian Church will break ties with a Boy Scout troop because it believes the youth organization has become too polarizing, its executive pastor said.

    The organization’s National Council voted last week to allow openly gay youth but maintained its ban on gay leaders.

    Tim Hester, executive pastor of Southeast Christian, said the youth organization’s consideration of that issue started the discussion that eventually led to the church’s board of elders deciding against renewing the church’s charter with Troop 212, but it wasn’t the deciding issue.

    The charter was going to be broken regardless of the Boy Scout vote, he said.

    “Truly for us it’s a logical decision,” he said. “We cannot be distracted from the mission God has called us to.”

    The Scouts have until the end of the year to relocate.

    Barry Oxley, CEO of the Boy Scouts’ Lincoln Heritage Council, said Southeast Christian had notified the council earlier this year that scouting would not be offered on its campus in 2014….

    Wait … which organization is being “too polarizing” — maybe the “mission from God” folks?

  52. 552
    Funny Diva

    Oh, lookie:
    a nice example of
    Even some _women_ JUST. DON’T. GET. IT!

    Sent to me by a friend who thought I’d be interested because I’ve enjoyed the new “Sherlock” from the BBC.

    OK…how do I come “out” to my friends as a capital-F FEMINIST without alienating them forever? I’m clearly doing it rong!

  53. 553
  54. 554
    Funny Diva

    rq @338
    THANK YOU for linking the Patrick Stewart clip. I was hoping it had already been shared here!

    As I commented to a FB friend:
    Forget “services to _drama_”. Give that man another Knighthood for Services To HUMANITY!

    That clip makes me DOUBLE teary-eyed, from his compassion for his mother and all victims of domestic abuse AND his compassion for his _father_, who was clearly a victim of toxic patriarchy (among other things).

    The other thing I always find remarkable about Sir Patrick is that he talks about these things without ‘splainin’. At least, I haven’t ever felt a-splained to when I listen to him.

  55. 555
    Funny Diva

    Wow, Lynna, OM @ 553

    Doesn’t HE sound like a complete sweetheart!
    For when sweetheart = completely toxic admiral of his own Douchecanoe FLEET.

    And, wait…guy leaves an AR-15 in his car and it gets stolen. And he still gets to have all his other guns WHY?! (never mind. I know why. I just think if you leave an AR-15 in your car and it gets stolen, you are by definition, ipso facto NOT A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.)

  56. 556
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Hmmm, I wonder how many in the atbeoskepticsphere would benefit from watching this very upworthy video on racism, Black History Month*, and the dreaded P-r-i-v-i-l-e-g-e:
    http://www.upworthy.com/the-definitive-response-to-jerks-asking-but-what-about-white-history-month

  57. 557
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Funny Diva:
    This (from Lindelof):
    ” Eve isn’t in her underwear because she’s a woman in a Star Trek movie. She’s in her underwear because she’s a hot, relatively young adult in a franchise built around relatively young, hot adults in space. But hey, Pine is also the star. He doesn’t just get to be ogled —he gets to fight bad guys, save his friends, and save the galaxy. Not so much with Eve.

    So! Keep on noticing, highlighting, and kvetching —especially about all the different things both genders do and don’t do while wearing clothes. But at least when it comes to not wearing clothes, the men and women of Star Trek may already be equal.”
    http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/05/22/star-trek-damon-lindelof-alice-eve/

    Shows how much he doesn’t get it either.
    Yes Damon, we get that you don’t understand the problem in showing her in a state of undress. No need to sound even more ignorant.

  58. 558
    yazikus

    @Ogvorbis
    That was awesome. You probably gave her something to think about.

  59. 559
    Pteryxx

    That White History Month video links to a really useful reference: (link to pdf)

    By Debra Leigh, Organizer, Community Anti-Racism Education Initiative

    28 COMMON RACIST ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS
    THAT INDICATE A DETOUR OR WRONG TURN
    INTO WHITE GUILT, DENIAL OR DEFENSIVENESS.

    Below is a list of 28 common racist attitudes and behaviors
    that indicate a detour or wrong turn into white guilt, denial or
    defensiveness. Each is followed by a statement that is a reality
    check and consequence for harboring such attitudes.

    examples:

    9. We Have Overcome.

    “We dealt with racism in the 60s with all the marches,
    sit-ins and speeches by Dr. King. Laws have been changed.
    Segregation and lynching are ended. We have some details
    to work out but real racism is pretty much a thing of
    the past.”

    REALITY CHECK + CONSEQUENCE:
    The absence of legalized, enforced segregation does not equal
    the end of racism. This denial of contemporary racism, based
    on inaccurate assessment of both history and current society,
    romanticizes the past and diminishes today’s reality.

    15. Not Here in Lake Wobegon.

    “We don’t have a racism problem here at this (school,
    organization, community).” or “We didn’t have a racism
    problem in this town until that Mexican family moved
    here.”

    REALITY CHECK + CONSEQUENCE:
    As white people, we do not have to think about racism when our
    school, organization or community is all white. Racism does not
    usually become apparent TO WHITES until there are people of
    color in their frame of reference.

  60. 560
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Pteryxx:
    #17 on that list strongly applies to the anti feminists in the skeptic/atheist movement.

  61. 561
    rq

    Ogvorbis is awesome, and I feel inspired by the rant he (you, Oggie!) posted.
    Funny Diva – you’re right, he manages to do all this stuff as a white male, and he never sounds condescending. ♥ He needs another knighthood.

    re: SheZow
    I love the idea, and I would love to see that show broadcast here for my children to see, and I hope they can carry the idea well, in a fun way, and break barriers as a result. I don’t have the words right now to explain completely (long day, relatives of Husband’s side visiting, beer) but it would be awesome just to let my so-far-self-identified boys to see that it’s ok to like/be ‘feminine’ and still be magical and strong and on the winning side. Props for the look, too – no overt sexualization! This is something to look out for.

    That is all.

  62. 562
    carlie

    NOooooooOOOOOooooOOOOOooo…

    Matt Smith is leaving Doctor Who.

    And he was the only thing that didn’t need to change!

  63. 563
    cicely

    Caine!
    *pouncehug*
    -
    Ogvorbis @ 528: *vigorous applause*
    -
    Sister1′s ex-husband had problems with the fact that she out-earned him. Among other things.
    -

  64. 564
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Not a fun day here at Casa La Pelirroja. Apparently, getting the Redhead out bed this morning triggered leg cramps. Which don’t bother her sitting, but standing to be washed or transferred on/off the commode, painful. Walking, out of the question. Hopefully it settles down overnight.

  65. 565
    Funny Diva

    Ohhhh, sorry to hear that, Nerd of Redhead. Hope Redhead feels better soon and that tomorrow is better.

    Ogvorbis, that rant was AWESOME. “Get offa my lawn. But enjoy the PUBLIC sidewalk.” Bwahahaha!

    Hugs, chocolate and bacon of comfort for all who need and/or would welcome them.

    Today I went to my nearest grocery store and played “crazy garrulous lady”. Found out that it is once again family owned and run, with three generations working there. Grandpa manages Produce. Dad manages Meat. Junior helps out with meat/fish. I am _delighted_ to know this. I found this out because I had just picked up some very high-quality top sirloin at a great price and told the meat manager how much I appreciated that. He told me the “family owned/run” story (this is now their one-and-only store), and I replied that I was glad to know, hope they find their balance between staying in business and having good prices on high-quality things, and that their Cafe baristas ROCK (they pull shots by hand, the old fashioned way. they get their beans from a regional roaster).
    Then I told the floral manager that I’d made a bouquet last week with her flowers and that her quality and selection are much appreciated. We had a nice chat, and she sent me home with a halfway open rose out of the cooler. “There’s a lot of life left in this one,” she said. “Thank you. I’ll take good care of it,” I said.
    It’s this kind
    http://www.fleurigros.ca/eng/flowers/?query=mundial
    In the bud they have even more of a pistachio green cast around the outside. Not much scent, but a long, strong stem and a big, glorious, creamy bloom.

    I love my friendly days. Even my psycho-kitten (q’est q’est c’est?) loves me today.

  66. 566
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Ohhhh, sorry to hear that, Nerd of Redhead. Hope Redhead feels better soon and that tomorrow is better.

    Yeah, the historical data is that it happens early at night, and is gone the next morning after adjustment to remove likely triggers. My hope is a calm overnight will settle things down. Tomorrow she is going to the Lincolnshire Marriott to see South Pacific with a friend (with physical assistance from a Nerd for initial/final transfers)

  67. 567
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    In full disclosure, this gives me time to do shopping without having to keep an eye on the clock for commode duty.

  68. 568
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    I feel the need to interrupt again. My apologies.

    Anyways, what do you intend to do with the sirloin?

  69. 569
    Funny Diva

    Full disclosure? Is that what they’re calling win-win these days? :-)
    Hope you get to have a little fun/time for yourself with the shopping. And then, sing-along afterward!
    Bali hai may call you, any night, any day…

  70. 570
    broboxley OT

    so my lease sez I have to mow the 2 acre lawn. An ancient wheezing mtd yard machine gold riding mower was presented. Last weekend I told son to mow the lawn when I was gone. Came back, no lawn mowed. He explained it had a problem. I got on it, road about 20ft when the deck belt scattered. Get model number and head to fleet and farm.(store chain) No record match in the cross match books. Make a guess and head back. Check on line, no xref for belt. Belt too big, back to store, 4 belts later I get one that works. On the plus side I can change that fucker out in under 6 minutes.

  71. 571
    chigau (違う)

    gonna wash that man right outta my hair…

  72. 572
    Funny Diva

    Owie. That sucks. Sorry about that, broboxley OT. At least sonny was not being uncooperative?

    I hope you picked up the Big Belts Assortment on that second trip. If it were me I’d forget and try one at a time, with trips back and forth until I got one that worked…and it would take me a LOT longer than 6 minutes to change it out. And my lack of cussword vocabulary would become glaringly apparent after the first ten minutes…

  73. 573
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    And there goes New Zealand politics. We’ve just had some documents leaked documenting plans to force our politicians fairly hard to the right. I find it massively disturbing that they see what is wrong with US politics and hold it up as something to aspire to.

    The document is below:

    http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lusk2.pdf

  74. 574
    David Marjanović

    Dinner today: cheap, reportedly sustainable trout steamed in butter, with parsley potatoes containing more butter (possibly too much). Same thing tomorrow, because half of the trout is left.

    or GO TO HELL for not participating in communion

    What. Ever since Vatican II, you can stay in your bench and commune in spirit or something. I see people doing it every single time I’m dragged to church, and that’s how it’s been explained to me.

    Type atari breakout into google, and then do image search :)

    Too late.

    Well done, Ogvorbis. That was a thing of beauty.

    Seconded.

    Caine sighting! eeeee! you were missed. ♥

    Also seconded. :-)

    q’est q’est c’est?

    Qu’est-ce que c’est ?

  75. 575
    markbrown

    Grats to Nerd, kudos to Ogvorbis, and *hugs* to all those that need them.

    Beatrice #514

    There went 10 minutes of my life! Kinda curious how I ended up with images of “singapore rice” when I finally stopped. 0.o

    rq #561

    As long as they handle it right Shezow could have potential, but I’m not getting my hopes up. From a discussion here:

    It’s not a very good show. I’ll just tell you that right now.
    His powers aren’t incidentally attached to a female costume/persona. His powers are all “eww girly”. One of his powers is a slap. It reinforces negative female gender roles more than breaks down male ones.
    And the animation is total buttnuggets.

    ————–

    Kinda disappointed I got beaten to posting this article about women dressed as badgers chasing EDL supporters through London… but at least it gives me hope for my country!

  76. 576
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Thanks for all congrats for paying off the mortgage. There are still a couple of significant days in the next couple of months. The first is our wedding anniversary in June, one of those that has a zero (and a four) or five as the last digit, and the following month has me working for the same company (three owners in the interim) for 25 years. Free grog will be available on the appropriate dates.

  77. 577
    markbrown

    But I no longer drink alcohol! *sniff*

    Not even the virtual kind.

  78. 578
    broboxley OT

    funny diva

    If it were me I’d forget and try one at a time, with trips back and forth until I got one that worked…and it would take me a LOT longer than 6 minutes to change it out.

    that is exactly what I did, sure I had it right each time. It took me about an hour to figure how to change it, and understand what provided the tensioning. It was the last belt thst took 6 minutes because I had figured it out. 4 cotter pins, out, lay belt in. raise platform up, align, cotter pins in and done.

  79. 579
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    But I no longer drink alcohol! *sniff*

    Not even the virtual kind.

    Complementary virgin grog available. All the hangover, none of the “make the room spin” side effects.

  80. 580
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Buttnuggets…snort

  81. 581
    Funny Diva

    David Marjnovic’ @ 574

    Mmmmm, trout. Mmmmm, butter. I do not think there can be too much butter for that meal. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so!

    As for my (execrable) French, I was riffing off the Talking Heads song.
    Psycho-kitten
    Qu’est Que C’est
    meow meow meow MEOW meow (2x)————-> (or “miau” if you prefer)
    Run run run run run run run away!

    This particular kitteh is particularly packed with purrsonality. Make that multiple purrsonalities (that’s why she’s so packed with same). But I’ve been “sitting” a friends kitteh this week, and I think mine has gotten lonesome. She sure was happy to see me when I came home from my swim…I think she was worried I’d gone to spend hours and HOURS with that _other_ kitteh.

    Kittehs. They’re pretty funny sometimes. Not everyone’s cup of tea as pets, but I loves ‘em.

  82. 582
    yazikus

    Hi All,
    I had a super long and productive day. I got to hang out with my little fella and his buddy all morning. We hit farmers market, the park, and downtown.. I was pretty tired afterward. I watched Religulous (sp?) for the first time. Parts of it were quite funny, but others left me, well, wanting. And a bit angry. The one muslima he interview, he talked over her like there was no tomorrow.

  83. 583
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    Totally threadrupt, but I’ll leave *a pile of hugs and chocolate* – take and/or distribute as needed.

  84. 584
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks for the talking-through, Pteryxx. I went to the gathering and enjoyed some conversation. I felt a little awkward but survived it. The liberturdian woman also seems to be a climate change denier. Well, anthropogenic CG anyway. But me and another person demolished her arguments on that so that was fun. Everyone was very welcoming. I’m about 20 years younger than anyone though, but that’s never stopped me from socializing.

    I had a friend who was also homeschooled posit once that we are hyper-observant of social cues. Because we are always trying to make sure we’re fitting in so we consciously try to gauge reactions to ourselves and see what the norms are for a given group. So spent a lot of energy doing that tonight. I also just blurted out argumentative responses to Lib’s crap though. On the plus side, my observations of the others indicate exasperation with her going on and on. I know that I still have internalized misogyny/social conditioning that makes me critical of assertive women, so I try to separate that out of the amount of annoyance I have with her. It doesn’t always work. She wasn’t terrible the whole time though.

  85. 585
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    And may I say I am sick of the insipid idea that ‘corporations have rights as people do’?

    I’ll believe corporations are people when BP and the West Fertilizer Company are executed for murder.

  86. 586
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    So, apparently Toyota Priuses run on 1/3 of their spec oil charge, and I’m not a very attentive car owner.

    On the other hand, the offspring was actively helpful in changing oil this time, much more so than last year. >.>

    This would have been the perfect day to open that bottle of Older Viscosity. Wish I’d thought of it. >.>

  87. 587
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    And may I say I am sick of the insipid idea that ‘corporations have rights as people do’?

    The thing is, corporations were created to have some rights like people do. Just not all the rights. The question isn’t whether corporations are people. Mitt was right when he said that, and not because of Citizens United. Corporations can buy and sell property, for example. “Corporate personhood” was a thing long before CU. Corporations can sue and be sued, that’s another one. It’s just a matter of whether we want corporations to have certain rights, like speech. Or voting, for that matter. What about a Fourteenth Amendment right to privacy? What if a corporation successfully sued for privacy?

    The point I’m verbosely trying to make is that “Are corporations people?” is a false dichotomy. There are myriad rights that natural people have and corporate people have a divvying them up properly is the relevant concern.

  88. 588
    Funny Diva

    broboxley:
    Cotter Pins! *shudder*
    I hope you’ve gotten to put yer feet up and enjoy a tall cold one after all that. Maybe while watching sonny drive the now functional mower over that 2 acre (!) lawn. (don’t suppose you’ve considered, like, goats or sheep?)

  89. 589
    Amblebury

    Ah HAH! I spotted a wild Caine TOO!
    -
    Dongiovanni – can you provide a bit more background on that bizarre document? Who are these people and what degree of sway do the have? As a member of one of those leftist parties they deride, this curious mind wants to know.
    -
    HELLO EVERYONE.

  90. 590
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    The point I’m verbosely trying to make is that “Are corporations people?” is a false dichotomy.

    Corporations are manifestly not people; there are certain societal goods that are most efficiently obtained by pretending that they are in a limited range of circumstances, thus, the legal fiction of corporate personhood, while facially absurd, is tolerated for pragmatic reasons. Pretending that they are people in others requires positive arguments that societal goods will likewise be obtained in those other circumstances.

  91. 591
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Portia:
    I see your point.
    For clarification, much of my opposition to corporations having rights is in response to the idea that corporations can have their religious beliefs infringed. I’m of the opinion that only PEOPLE can have religious freedom. Of course that begs the question: where is the line drawn between rights of a person and rights of a corporation?

  92. 592
    rq

    There is no such thing as too much butter.

    I missed saying hello to Caine last night, so hello to Caine!!!

    broboxley – boo for a hassle with the mower, but yay for new skills!

    markbrown – I am no longer excited about SheZow. :( That is extremely disappointing, that they went that route with super-powers and the like. :( What an awesomely missed opportunity. And thanks for the badgers.

    Portia – Yay for the meeting being alright! I’m glad you had a good time, and it sounds like you’ll have to good support with the miso-denying member. (I also understand your difficulty – sometimes assertive women just have wrong/horrible views, and it seems wrong to speak against them because they’re assertive about them… But as long as she’s not horrible all the time, it might help you feel easier about being assertive against her views rather than her. Sorry if my point is not coming across, it’s not early morning but we’re only waking up slowly now, so my brain is on slow rev and I might not be as clear as I think I am.)

    Funny Diva – I love shopping local/family, and I know I’ve been accepted as a regular when they save special perfect-sizes cuts of meat for me in the refrigerator rather than in the display case. ;)

  93. 593
    Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    I had a friend who was also homeschooled posit once that we are hyper-observant of social cues. Because we are always trying to make sure we’re fitting in so we consciously try to gauge reactions to ourselves and see what the norms are for a given group. So spent a lot of energy doing that tonight.

    …sounds rough.

  94. 594
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    *stands alone in the desert, looking at tumbleweed rolling by*
    *sees something on the horizon. Is it a person? Is it in aeroplane?*
    ….
    ..
    **tumbleweed**

  95. 595
  96. 596
    broboxley OT

    corporations can be executed by a judicial fiat. It’s called disincorporation

  97. 597
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Azkyroth:
    Sorry if I was insensitive.

    About corporations, I get where you’re coming from. I think we’re talking about different definitions of “people.”

    Tony:
    I think you’re very right. There are some rights that it’s nonsensical for corporations to have, like freedom of religion.

    rq:
    I get what you mean. I was trying to find places to relate to her (like when camping came up) so that I wouldn’t just be in a constant state of annoyance. Captain Awkward often talks about trying to head off the phenomenon of “Everything this person does becomes part of the story about how they’re horrible”

    I wish I had the means to rent the basement apartment in my house. The new tenant down there has loud friends who smoke inside. I smoke sometimes, but I hate smelling in inside.

  98. 598
    Lynna, OM

    More backlash from religious leaders regarding the decision by Boy Scouts of America to allow gay scouts to join:

    A Roman Catholic church in Crystal Lake will no longer sponsor a local Boy Scout troop because of the Scouts’ new acceptance of gay members.

    It’s believed to be the first church in the Chicago area to take such a step, though some evangelical churches in the South have also severed ties with Scout troops, and church and scout leaders alike expect more houses of worship to wrestle with the issue.

    The Boy Scouts of America National Council voted May 23 to end its exclusion of openly gay scouts next year, while maintaining a ban on gay adult leaders.

    In response, the pastor of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church notified local Scout officials by mail last week that the Cub Scout pack and Boy Scout troop it chartered will have to find a new meeting place.

    The Rev. Brian Grady wrote that the Boy Scouts are “condoning” homosexuality, which the church opposes.

    “For a young boy to (have to) share a tent or be exposed to other boys who are openly homosexual is not only unjust, but immoral,” Grady wrote. “As a former Boy Scout, I know how uncomfortable it would have been to have to be in close proximity with boys that would perhaps be looking at me as more than just a friend.”…

    Chicago Tribune link.

  99. 599
    Lynna, OM

    The religious-rights flavor of the “corporations are people” discussion started here.

  100. 600
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ah I missed your post on that, Lynna. I was aware of that lawsuit but hadn’t realized it was particularly based on an argument that the corp itself should have recognized religious beliefs.

  101. 601
    carlie

    As a former Boy Scout, I know how uncomfortable it would have been to have to be in close proximity with boys

    Good lord, what were they doing in that troop? This gets at something that has always bothered me: nudity for the sake of… machoism? Forced embarrassment? What? I mean, what the hell is the deal with communal showers and open toilets and etc. in bathrooms and locker rooms? When I was in high school, part of our PE grade was based on whether or not we took a shower after gym, and the PE teacher sat outside the communal shower room with a clipboard staring through the window in the shower room to keep track. (Most of us kept our underwear on, kept bras on but dropped the straps, and went in with a towel wrapped around and mimed opening it in front of a shower spray without getting close enough to actually get wet.) Hell, I was once at a freaking church camp where the bathroom stalls didn’t have doors. I mean, seriously. It doesn’t cost that much extra to throw up a door, fer chrissake. Plastic curtains, if you must. I just. Don’t. Understand.

  102. 602
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    This gets at something that has always bothered me: nudity for the sake of… machoism? Forced embarrassment?

    In at least one cub scout pack, yes. When I wa

    sorry. backing out.

  103. 603
    carlie

    Especially the bathroom stuff. I am SERIOUSLY private about bathrooms. I can’t even go when there’s someone else in the room who knows that it’s me in there. That whole chatting through the stall door while you’re going about your business? Oh hell no. If I’m on my way into the bathroom, and someone else sees me and walks in with me and starts talking, I have to pretend I’m just there to wash my hands and then come back later. Cannot deal.

  104. 604
  105. 605
    rq

    carlie
    I think it originally was a way to affirm that bodies are nothing to be ashamed of – everybody has them, etc. etc., the more casual we are about it, the less problems we’ll have later.
    Obviously, this theory is working well in practice. [/snark]
    (I’m private about bathroom stuff. It’s just… not something I want to share. I need my alone time!)

  106. 606
    carlie

    Oh Og, I’m so sorry. Here is an emergency tiny dog protecting kittens from an overly rambunctious large dog.

  107. 607
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Ogvorbis,
    *careful hugs*
    Do you want us to drop the topic (I have a reply to carlie, but it won’t be a great loss if we drop it)?

  108. 608
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    calrie and Beatrice:

    No, keep going. I’m stpping back fro right now.

    Not your falt. I triggered myself. Ishould be strong enought to know where I shoulnt go, but is still do.l Sorry.

  109. 609
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Ogvorbis,

    Not your fault either, just so you know. You can’t know what will trigger you.

  110. 610
    carlie

    Og – it’s my fault. In my mind I went so fast to the general topic of cultural norms that I didn’t stop to think of what the actual origin story was.

  111. 611
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Ogvorbis:
    ::Hugs::
    ****
    Speaking of gays in the shower, I recall trying to hide my sexuality in middle school. I had realized that something was different about me in fall of 1987 when I felt myself feel something strange towards my gym coach. I remember looking at him in a way I’d never looked at a guy before, but I had no idea what I was feeling. My family moved from El Paso, TX to Huntsville, AL in the middle of my 6th grade year. I was so nervous about gym class, and changing clothes around other guys, or showering with other guys that I forged a note from my parents saying that I had a psychological aversion to football (I also didn’t even want to play to begin with). I was scared at the thought of having an erection around a bunch of my peers and being teased or ridiculed, so I avoided it. It worked. I sat out of football for that semester.
    FSM, I wish I had a role model somewhere to look up to when I was that age. I was really scared.

  112. 612
    rq

    Erp. Sorry for going on about it, Ogvorbis! :(

  113. 613
    Jackie

    Our little kittehs are getting stronger and goofier. I entertained them by “running away” from them last night while my eldest made their bottles. Occasionally they’d try to run and do the Hannah Barbera *googly-googly* move. They’d suddenly get frightened and puff up like wee little balls of fluff. I have to say, they are entertaining and adorable when they aren’t peeing on me or trying to climb my bare legs with their teeny widdle razor toes.

  114. 614
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    Ogvorbis –

    It’s officially fire season in the West. SoCal. New Mexico. Colorado. On fire. Are you still in a job which will involve fighting wildfires this year?

    Please stay safe!

  115. 615
    rq

    The Queen is in space.
    It’s a great message, but the patronising, paternalistic message to ‘protect the weak’ just grates.

    +++
    Jackie
    Any (new) photos of the fuzzballs?

  116. 616
    rq

    Little girl likes to read. Too bad nobody asks her what she wants to be.

    More news out of Istanbul. Might as well give them publicity, don’t know what else to do!

  117. 617
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    rq@ 615:
    Yeah, that mothers message was a good one, though it got bogged down a bit with the patronizing and sexist bit about men needing to protect women.

  118. 618
    carlie

    The Queen is in space.

    I see the “asteroid”, but where is the star whale?

  119. 619
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good evening
    We’re back from out trip. It was nice but very, very muddy :)

  120. 620
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Carlie and rq:

    No, I apologize, you have no need to.

    I let myself trigger; I read on even after some warning signs started showing up; I even started to reply and then realized how I felt. And, because I remember what I did, because I am not strong enough to avoid these situations, I just squelched what might have been a very good conversation. There is no reason that my weakness, that what I did, should prevent you having the conversations that you want to have. I’m sorry that my reaction silenced you. That wasn’t my intent, but, as we always say, intent is not magic.

    Maybe I just need to walk away and let y’all converse freely without me bringing you into my own failures. Sorry.

  121. 621
    rq

    Ogvorbis
    I’m still apologizing, and you can’t make me stop, so please just accept.
    I’d rather leave this space as comforting for you. This conversation can always be had at a later time, and it’s far more important for you to have a comforting space, if at all possible. So, sorry.
    *hugs* if you want them

    Giliell
    Welcome back! :) You reminded me of this picture.

  122. 622
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Ogvorbis

    Maybe I just need to walk away and let y’all converse freely without me bringing you into my own failures. Sorry.

    Nooooooooo!

    (Which also summarizes my reaction to being stuck on Cracked for… um… a while now (with three more tabs currently open).)

  123. 623
    carlie

    Og – dude, we were talking about peeing and bathrooms. Not a conversation that needed to be had. And I care about you much more than any particular conversation, no matter what it’s about. So there, nyah.

  124. 624
    rq

    Pangaea by country.
    And a happy thought to close off the night.

  125. 625
    David Marjanović

    Pangaea by country.

    As it says, there are geological features in there that didn’t exist back then. All of Iceland, for instance (it’s oceanic crust). To fit it in, they moved the British Isles around, which is nonsense – the English Channel is an epicontinental sea, it doesn’t have any ocean floor under it.

    One click away is a map of where the world’s atheists live. The godless Czechs shine like a beacon. :-D There’s much interesting discussion further down the page.

  126. 626
    yazikus

    Greetings all! I need recommendations for a good laundry folding movie (or documentary or show, preferably available on netflix instant). I’ve got pretty varied tastes, but netflix has done something dreadful with how they sort things on the site, and I can’t navigate it worth a damn. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

  127. 627
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    For a minute, I thought you were looking for a documentary about folding laundry. Then I read it for the fourth time and the fog cleared. I have recently enjoyed:
    Call the Midwife
    Luther
    Jekyll
    House of Cards

    Also in my queue are these documentaries:
    The Invisible War
    5 Broken Cameras

  128. 628
    yazikus

    Then I read it for the fourth time and the fog cleared.

    I should read my comments before posting. Not only was it not very clear, but a tad enthusiastic as well, with all of my exclamation points. I guess I was excited at the prospect of a quiet house, a glass of wine and some quality laundry time with no little hands to unfold it.

  129. 629
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Ha, you were fine. That does sound relaxing : )
    Those are all on Netflix, since I wasn’t totally clear.

  130. 630
    carlie

    yazikus – there are some websites that will do searches for you, I’ve recently learned. Haven’t checked any of them out, though. Pretty bad when there’s an entire industry of sites to fix a company’s own search engine!

    Wow. There are several documentaries I’ve just searched for that I know I watched on netflix instant, but they’re not available any more. Pout. Well, Herb and Dorothy and Grey Gardens are good if you can find them. Also Ken Burns’ The Dust Bowl, which might still be on the PBS website, and Peter Sagal just did a 4 part series on the Constitution that’s on PBS online.

    Neat documentaries on Netflix streaming:
    Blue Planet
    Between The Folds (origami)
    Jiro Dreams of Sushi

    Also on Netflix Instant:

    Not a documentary at all, but A Town Called Panic. You will spend the whole time saying “WTF?” and laughing.

    Also Paranorman should be watched.

    And the Bernadette Peters version of Into The Woods.

    And every time what to watch comes up, I try to push Stephen Fry’s Kingdom. It’s so lovely.

  131. 631
    yazikus

    Perhaps someone ought to make a laundry-folding documentary, now that I think about it. I’ve had many a spirited discussion as to the proper folding method for bathroom hand towels, fitted sheets & plain t-shirts. Ooh, and pleated pants for that matter.
    -
    Yes, I would totally watch that documentary. Hopefully it would include a thoughtful commentary on how the feminist movement has affected the laundry process in general, mentioning the advent of tools to speed up the process gave women more time to pursue feminist activism. /daydream

  132. 632
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Hiya carlie! Speaking of netflix, I’m on Season 4 Episode 11 of Arrested Development. When I’m done I want to talk with you about it if you’ve watched it.

  133. 633
    yazikus

    Between The Folds (origami)

    I watched this a while back, and it inspired me to learn how to fold paper, and concluded with every christmas gift I gave being accompanied by an adorable origami owl (I think I was up till two in the morning completing them). Also my tree was topped with an origami star. I really quite enjoyed it!

  134. 634
    David Marjanović

    *fluffy hugs for Ogvorbis*
    I don’t understand why you think of such things in terms of strength and weakness. I think that’s something people indoctrinated you with – it doesn’t make actual sense as far as I can see.
    *more hugs*
    *cocoa with orange blossom honey*

    *pouncehugs for Amblebury and Giliell*

    Complementary virgin grog available. All the hangover, none of the “make the room spin” side effects.

    Subthread won.

    Mmmmm, trout. Mmmmm, butter. I do not think there can be too much butter for that meal. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so!

    Not sure if it was too much butter or just too much. Apparently it’s not quite possible to eat a kilo and a half of potatoes in two days, not even with fresh parsley and butter and the mentioned trout with more butter. There is, uh, circumstantial and weak medical evidence that there was in fact too much butter, but I digress. :-)

    Qu’est Que C’est

    Qu’est-ce que c’est, literally “what is that what that is”. The ce is silent; that’s probably why all the stuff behind it got added. Similar things, I recently read, are going on right now in European Portuguese: como estás, “how are you”, would be pronounced [kɔmsˈta], so it gets expanded to como é que estás, “how is it that you are”, pronounced [kɔmɛksˈta].

    [peeing and bathrooms: doors]

    what is this I don’t even

    It worked.

    Astounding. :-)

  135. 635
    David Marjanović

    Petition-like entity: “Shame on the 28 Democratic senators who voted to cut food stamps!”

  136. 636
    carlie

    Portia – oh yes!

    Perhaps someone ought to make a laundry-folding documentary,

    Too late.

    And again.

    etc. :) Not really a documentary, though.

  137. 637
    cicely

    Portia, glad that you had a good time at the social gathering—and also that the others seemed unimpressed by Lib’s nonsense. Kudos on the demolishment of her AGW arguments!
    -
    HELLO, AMBLEBURY!
    :)
    -
    *solidarity hug* for Ogvorbis.
    -

    Because before the invesntion of oxygen, people just didn’t breathe. They lived on Pure God Alone.

    *snortle*
    -

    Little girl likes to read. Too bad nobody asks her what she wants to be.

    Well, I guess it’s progress that it wasn’t, “Just think of all the bedtime stories she’ll be able to tell her kids, when she’s grown up!”
    -

  138. 638
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    All this tv watching call for some nice buttery popcorn with brewer’s yeast.

  139. 639
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Thanks cicely!

    She literally said that we call it “climate change” now instead of “global warming” because the planet’s not warming overall. Someone else demolished second part of that claim then I pointed out that “climate change” is more accurate because it’s more comprehensive. After I made that point she went back to saying it’s not actually warmer. I said “But he already addressed that.” and she quit. It was a nice tag team effort ^_^

    I think my popcorn is exactly as burnt as Tony would like.

  140. 640
    yazikus

    Portia, I’m folding my fourth and final load of laundry, into the second episode of Jekyll. Thanks for the advice! I’ve added the others to my queue and am looking forward to them.

  141. 641
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    glad you liked it, and well done with all the laundry! That show kind of creeped me out, but in a way that made me unable to stop watching. I usually don’t like creepy, so that’s saying something. :)

  142. 642
    broboxley OT

    got a new shiny! 1985 mazda rx7 with 76k original miles, looks just like this

  143. 643
  144. 644
    cicely

    New shiny looks slick, broboxley. Not that I am a good judge of car-flesh, mind you. But to my uneducated eye, it at least looks a good game.
    -

  145. 645
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Fun wheels broboxley :)

  146. 646
    rq

    Good mornings!

    broboxley
    I like the shiny. Reminds me of the ’87 Ford Mustang a friend of mine drove (and let me drive a few times) back in high school.

    This morning’s kitten-cute.

  147. 647
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    @Amblebury

    Sorry for the late reply. If you’re still out there, the document was from Simon Lusk, one of National’s political advisors – involved mainly with Judith Collins’s faction. He’s upset that John Key and the rest of our centre -right government have something approximating a conscience. Fortunately, Key and co have since attempted to dissociate from them, so as long as Collins stays out of power their influence should be limited – fortunately. They generally seem like loonies who are not likely to get much support, but it’s still concerning.

  148. 648
    dongiovanni (Now onto Wagner)

    Also: such an adorable kitten! I want one.

  149. 649
    Parrowing

    I love those GentleWhispering videos, carlie! I probably watched them during my folding video frenzy :D

    *

    yazikus, I enjoy origami also! One Christmas I made a bunch of little vases out of canvas and cardboard, on which I painted a flower. In the vase I stacked three origami lilies and then hot glue gunned painted shells and lucky stars between the petals. I gave them out to pretty much everyone that year because I had no money to buy anything but had plenty of art supplies. That Christmas was right after I met my now-husband & I had a feeling we’d end up getting married, which is (one of the reasons) why I gave him the vase I liked to look at most ;-) (it now sits on our bookshelf). I’ve since figured out how to make a little card that, when opened, pops out an origami crane, which I now include with birthday presents.

  150. 650
    rq

    I know it’s an after-weekend-party Monday when all that’s left for breakfast is eggs and cake (and four chicken drumsticks, but I’m saving those for lunch!).

  151. 651
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Good morning
    So I skipped one class to finish the assignment for another one. Brilliant…

    rq
    It’s not so much that they threw themselves into the mud, but they fell.
    #1 forward into a muddy puddle (and then she decided that she was wet and dirty anyway so biiiiiiiiiig fun) and the little one backwards off the swing (glad there was all this mud so she didn’t hurt her head). And the little one sometimes got stuck in the mud and couldn’t free herself anymore except by getting on her knees.

  152. 652
    rq

    Giliell
    That is some impressive mud! Sounds like it was mostly a good time, though. I’m glad for that.

  153. 653
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’ve since figured out how to make a little card that, when opened, pops out an origami crane, which I now include with birthday presents.

    That sounds really neat, what a fun thoughtful touch to receive with a gift.

    Sounds like good muddy times indeed!

  154. 654
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    I’m trying to prepare for a hearing with no contact from the client. Arg. Fingers crossed he even shows up. Can somebody wave a magic wand and make this migraine stop growing in my head? *whiiiine*

  155. 655
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    Pangaea by country.

    Huh. I’ll be darned. Welp, I’ll be walking over to the West Sahara if anyone needs me…

  156. 656
    cicely

    Portia, if I had a Wand of Migraine Banishment, I’d gladly use a charge to help you out.
    Unfortunately, all I have to offer is *hugs*—but at least I never run out of charges.
    :)
    -

  157. 657
    Lynna, OM

    A Mormon Moment of Madness that continues to influence mormon sheeple. They are all supposed to be prepared to walk to Missouri from wherever they are (mostly from Utah) when the great sifting, or the end times, or whatever-the-hell occurs:

    When God leads the people back to Jackson County, how will he do it? Let me picture to you how some of us may be gathered and led to Jackson County. I think I see two or three hundred thousand people wending their way across the great plain enduring the nameless hardships of the journey, herding and guarding their cattle by day and by night, and defending themselves and little ones from foes on the right hand and on the left, as when they came here. They will find the journey back to Jackson County will be as real as when they came out here. Now, mark it. And though you may be led by the power of God “with a stretched out arm,” it will not be more manifest than the leading the people out here to those that participate in it. They will think there are a great many hardships to endure in this manifestation of the power of God, and it will be left, perhaps to their children to see the glory of their deliverance, just as it is left for us to see the glory of our former deliverance from the hands of those that sought to destroy us. This is one way to look at it. It is certainly a practical view. Some might ask, what will become of the railroads? I fear that the sifting process would be insufficient were we to travel by railroads. (Journal of Discourses, 24:156–57.)

    The speaker/writer here is none other than Joseph Smith himself.

  158. 658
    Lynna, OM

    If you wish to torture yourself a bit, you can read the LDS church’s sort-of denial and sort-of explanation of what Joseph Smith really meant when he talked about walking to Missouri.

    https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/04/missouri-myths?lang=eng

    Yeah, the Prophet said that but he didn’t really mean it like it sounds. ‘Cause the way it sounds is fucking bugnuts, so we’d better adjust that MMM.

  159. 659
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Hello everyone!

    A bunch of us have been working on a blog project: http://feministhivemind.com Come check it out and give us some love!

  160. 660
    Lynna, OM

    Steve Benen, writing for the Maddow Blog, covered the latest iteration of “corporations are people” fallout. (See these comments for earlier discussion: 539, 545, 585, 587, 590, 591, 596, 597.)

    The company’s lawyer, Kyle Duncan, said that if corporations have free-speech rights under Citizens United, then corporations have religious liberty, too.

    “We don’t say, well, a corporation can’t exercise a right because it’s in corporate form,” Duncan said. “Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. … It’s not a purely personal right.”

    And in this case, this “person” is so opposed to birth control, he/she/it doesn’t want his/her/its employees to have subsidized access to contraception, the workers’ preferences notwithstanding.

    The Obama administration, not surprisingly, doesn’t see it that way.

    A lawyer for the U.S. Department of Justice argued that allowing for-profit corporations to exempt themselves from requirements that violate their religious beliefs would be in effect allowing the business to impose its religious beliefs on employees.

    “If you make an exemption for the employer, it comes at the expense of the employee,” said Alisa Klein, who argued the government’s case in a similar contraceptives mandate appeal heard Wednesday in the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago….

    Bitten in the butt by Citizens United … again.

  161. 661
    Lynna, OM

    I forgot to include a link for the excerpt posted in #660:

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/03/18724092-corporations-have-religious-liberty-my-friend

  162. 662
    chigau (違う)

    Hi.
    ‘rupt
    ‘sup?
    Alexandra??

  163. 663
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Hi chigau. *waves*

    READ OUR BLOG http://feministhivemind.com

  164. 664
    Pteryxx

    Also threadrupt, but y’all who need fluffy hugs or chocolate bacon or permission-to-vent certificates know who you are… especially you folks who think you might not deserve them. (That means you Oggie. ♥)

    Alexandra @659, feministhivemind looks awesome. So many commenters on FTB have said they WOULD speak out more, or blog more, if there were a safe and moderated space in which to do so. I don’t know if I’ll have the time to volunteer anytime soon but I’d gladly chip in some moderating for y’all.

    Also, everybody, check out the feministhivemind 101 section which has fresh resources.

    Leaving this here: from David Sirota at Salon, a research- and link-filled takedown of education “reform”ers’ insistence on erasing poverty from the equation.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/03/instead_of_a_war_on_teachers_how_about_one_on_poverty/

    One way to appreciate this reality in stark relief is to just remember that, as Barkan shows, for all the claims that the traditional public school system is flawed, America’s wealthiest traditional public schools happen to be among the world’s highest achieving schools. Most of those high-performing wealthy public schools also happen to be unionized. If, as “reformers” suggest, the public school system or the presence organized labor was really the key factor in harming American education, then those wealthy schools would be in serious crisis – and wouldn’t be at the top of the international charts. Instead, the fact that they aren’t in crisis and are so high achieving suggests neither the system itself nor unions are the big factor causing high-poverty schools to lag behind. It suggests that the “high poverty” part is the problem.

    That, of course, shouldn’t be a controversial notion – it is so painfully obvious it’s amazing anyone would even try to deny it. But that gets back to motive: the “reform” movement (and its loyal media outlets) cast a discussion of poverty as taboo because poverty and inequality are byproducts of the same economic policies that serve that movement’s funders.

  165. 665
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Pteryxx:
    Do you still have my email address? I might need mod help later this summer.

  166. 666
    Pteryxx

    Audley, I’ve got your gmail address; I’ll keep it in mind, and thanks! Reading and saving the comment policy now.

  167. 667
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Beautiful!

  168. 668
    Pteryxx

    I am not trampling on your free speech rights if I choose to ban you (or warn you or tell you to shut the fuck up). These rules are intended to shape The Hivemind into a space for feminists to discuss important topics without constantly fighting to be heard. Don’t like it? There’s plenty of internet right at your fingertips.

    lawl ♥

  169. 669
    David Marjanović

    Alexandra @659, feministhivemind looks awesome.

    It does!

    One more incentive for me to start my blog at long last, so I’ll have a WordPress login. *sigh* Currently I can’t comment at feministhivemind – of course I have nothing to say yet, except for wondering why Jadehawk didn’t directly turn the footnotes into links instead of listing them at the bottom of the page.

  170. 670
    Pteryxx

    Oo, just saw that Ophelia did a shout-out to the Hivemind too:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/06/welcome-the-feminist-hivemind/

  171. 671
    David Marjanović

    (Well, I could log in via Fb, but it’s just evil that that’s even a thing nowadays.)

    If, as “reformers” suggest, the public school system or the presence organized labor was really the key factor in harming American education, then those wealthy schools would be in serious crisis – and wouldn’t be at the top of the international charts.

    To be fair, schools elsewhere in the world are of course fully unionized, so it’s not a priori surprising that unionized schools in the US aren’t worse than them.

  172. 672
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    David:
    I did the formatting and was interrupted before cleaning everything up– long story short, I’m in the ER waiting on test results for severe abdominal pain. I will clean up all the little issues when I get back home.

  173. 673
    carlie

    Alexandra,
    Squeeee!!!! on the site! It looks fantastic. Now I just have to figure out what to log in with.

    Boooo on the hospital – I hope nothing is wrong and they make you better soon.

  174. 674
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Carlie:
    It’s probably my gall bladder, yay.

    I could add even more logins, if you’d like. ;)

  175. 675
    Lynna, OM

    I had trouble logging in to Feminist Hive Mind. Will try again later.

    In the meantime, great looking site, and awesome posts so far.

  176. 676
    cicely

    *hugs* for Alexandra.
    I can’t log in at the Hivemind for some reason, but that’s not important now. Surely.
     
    Gall bladders are Evil.
     
    They were probably invented by Horses. And made out of peas.
    -

  177. 677
    morgan ?! epitheting a metaphor

    Hi friends. Completely threadrupt here.
    Apropos of nothing other than being polite, how does PZ’s daughter Skatje pronounce her name? My meatspace name gets routinely mangled and I am sensitive to the problem. Thanks for the help.

  178. 678
    Lynna, OM

    @664:

    Leaving this here: from David Sirota at Salon, a research- and link-filled takedown of education “reform”ers’ insistence on erasing poverty from the equation.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/03/instead_of_a_war_on_teachers_how_about_one_on_poverty/

    Thanks for that link. Great article. It may take some time to read through the many sub-links, but the effort is rewarding.

    I note that in the fine example of an Ogvorbis rant (528) education was mentioned.

  179. 679
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Morgan:
    I have wondered the same thing.
    ****
    Portia:
    I have an open bucket at the end of my usb for the popcorn.

  180. 680
    David Marjanović

    It’s probably my gall bladder, yay.

    Boo. *happiness tea*

    how does PZ’s daughter Skatje pronounce her name?

    With “y” as in “yes”. You can hear PZ pronounce her name in the video of the first G+ hangout last Saturday.

  181. 681
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Audley:
    Is that you? Nym change? This queer Shoop is confuzed.

  182. 682
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Alexandra:

    I’m going to check out the site tonight, looks great!

    cicely:

    I don’t know if it was your kind well wishes or getting lunch in me but the headache has receded : )


    Tony:
    It’s all gone…I snarfed it last night while finishing Arrested Development.

    Ooooh
    Carlie! What did you think of AD?

  183. 683
    rq

    It’s nice to know that my work schedule isn’t a priority to some people.
    Now where’s that sledgehammer? I have a powerful need to break something.

  184. 684
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    rq,

    *sledgehammer*

    Here you go.
    I might need it back tomorrow afternoon, there’s a meeting tomorrow I am very much not looking forward to.
    Good night!

  185. 685
    rq

    Beatrice
    Will do. I’ll leave it in that corner so you don’t miss it. Good night!

  186. 686
    rq

    Well, this actually cheered me up. [Warning: Game of Thrones spoilers!]
    Good night from me too!

  187. 687
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Tony,
    Yes, it’s Audley. I’m now blogging under “Alexandra”, so I changed.

    I’m scheduled for surgery tonight, yay. :(

  188. 688
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    rq –

    Night night and sorry I missed you today, I’ll probably be equally busy tomorrow but I want to continue our convo!

    -

    Alexandra -

    Oof, yuck. Hope it turns out well for you.

  189. 689
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    I am enthralled by the Hivemind feminist links…

  190. 690
    David Marjanović

    Petition to Faux Noise to fire Lou Dobbs and the other ignorant misogynists.

    German news feature about how the Turkish media say nary a peep about the protests (which the soccer fans have joined, soccer being a big thing over there). Apparently, somebody phoned CNN Türk and asked: “Yesterday you showed a great documentary on penguins. Unfortunately I missed it, because I was on the road(s). Are you going to wait for the next revolution before you broadcast it again, or will you broadcast it again soon?”

  191. 691
    Lynna, OM

    The conservative side can boast some intelligent policy wonks who are qualified to comment on issues like healthcare. Avik Roy is one of these wonks. So what does Avik Roy do? He uses his knowledge to twist the facts so hard that he ends up lying.

    Several commenters have responded to Roy’s lying ways. Let’s start with Krugman:

    New York Times link.

    The thing you want to bear in mind is that Roy is widely considered a good example of a reformist conservative, not to mention a health policy wonk. …

    … Roy claims that Obamacare will cause soaring insurance rates, using a comparison that is completely fraudulent — and I say fraudulent, not wrong, because he is indeed enough of a policy wonk here to know that he is pulling a fast one.

    So here’s the comparison Roy uses: he points out that the insurance premiums that will apparently be charged on the California exchange will be higher than the lowest rates being offered by some insurers in California right now.

    … it’s comparing apples with oranges you can’t even buy.

    Right now, California has a basically unregulated individual market, in which insurers are free to reject whoever they choose, and charge whatever rates they choose. This means that a few young, healthy people with no record of prior medical problems can get cheap plans; these are, of course, precisely the people who need insurance least, and these plans are cheap not just because they’re only available to the very healthy but because they don’t provide much insurance. …

    So looking at these rates tells you nothing at all about the success of a program that offers insurance to everyone, regardless of medical history, and sets fairly high minimum standards for the quality of that insurance. …

    And Roy is about as good as you get in this stuff: his tone is even, he actually knows something. Nonetheless, he goes for the cheap, misleading shot….

    Anatomy of a Bogus Obamacare Argument: How an irresponsible Forbes writer distorted the debate. New Republic link to article by Jon Cohn.

    Ezra Klein in the Washington Post. Excerpt below:

    …Last week, California released early information on the rates insurers intend to charge on the new insurance marketplaces — known as “exchanges” — that the state is setting up under Obamacare. They were far lower than anyone expected. Where analysts had anticipated average premiums of $400 to $500, insurers were actually charging $200 to $300. “This is a home run for consumers in every region of California,” crowed Peter Lee, director of the state’s exchanges.

    The Affordable Care Act’s critics saw it differently. Avik Roy, a conservative health writer at Forbes, said Lee was being “misleading” and that “Obamacare, in fact, will increase individual-market premiums in California by as much as 146 percent.” Obamacare, he said, would trigger “rate shock,” the jolt people feel when they see higher rates.

    I ran the same search Roy did. … The average monthly premiums of the five cheapest plans is $114. So I took the middle plan, HealthNet’s IFP PPO Value 4500. It’s got a $4,500 deductible, a $2,500 deductible for brand-name medications, huge co-pays and a little “bestseller” icon next to it. And it’s only $109 a month — if they’ll sell it to you for that price.

    Click to buy the plan and eventually you’ll have to answer pages and pages of questions about your health history. Ever had cancer? How about an ulcer? How about a headache? Do you feel sad when it rains? When it doesn’t rain? Is there a history of cardiovascular disease in your family? Have you ever known anyone who had the flu? The actual cost of the plan will depend on how you answer those questions.

    According to HealthCare.gov, 14 percent of people who try to buy that plan are turned away outright. Another 12 percent are told they’ll have to pay more than $109. So a quarter of the people who try to buy this insurance product for $109 a month are told they can’t. Those are the people who need insurance most — they are sick, or were sick, or are likely to get sick. So, again, is $109 really the price of this plan?

  192. 692
    cicely

    Alexandra, *tentacles crossed* for your surgery, and *hugs* for before and after the procedure.
    -

  193. 693
    Dalillama, Schmott Guy

    Alexandra
    *hugs* and best wishes for the upcoming surgery.

    Lynna

    The conservative side can boast some intelligent policy wonks who are qualified to comment on issues like healthcare. Avik Roy is one of these wonks. So what does Avik Roy do? He uses his knowledge to twist the facts so hard that he ends up lying.

    There are really only two kinds of conservative policy analyst: Stunningly ignorant and lying bastards (although some are both, I suppose).

    Update on the homefront here:
    D is spending a couple weeks in a residential facility, after which she will be moving in with her stepmother. Things have reached a point where she and L can’t live together right now, as both were constantly inadvertently triggering each other, leading to unpleasant emotional spirals. We all hope that with time and mental healthcare for all concerned that we will be able to change that again in the future, but for now things are as they are, no matter how much it hurts.

  194. 694
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Dalillama:

    I’m sorry that it’s painful, but that sounds like a good resolution for the short term. I hope things improve and can please everyone as much as possible in the future.

  195. 695
    cicely

    Dalillama: *hugs* and sympathy for all involved, and hopes for an good eventual outcome.
    -

  196. 696
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Hi.

    TRIGGER WARNING

    Back from the brink. The mention of group showers and forced nudity for ‘bonding’ triggered a memory that was still hiding back there. I remembered taking a shower (maybe more than one?) with my rapist. And it was a lot more than just a shower. No need to go into details.

    /TRIGGER WARNING

    I do feel bad that my triggering (over which I have very little control (though you would think that I would be doing better at recognizing what will trigger me (then again, since I didn’t remember this, how would I know?))) can silence conversations that, obviously, others want to have.

    It’s officially fire season in the West. SoCal. New Mexico. Colorado. On fire. Are you still in a job which will involve fighting wildfires this year?

    I have some mandatory training/indoctrination coming up in mid-June, so I should be on the fire call-out list by ?June 20 or so. I hate being away from wife, getting a break from work is good, the fires are fun (you’ve read my fire stories, right? I mean, what could be more fun than 9 days in the same clothing, right?), and the pay is fantastic. yeah, still in the job.

    I’d rather leave this space as comforting for you.

    But, at the same time, I should not be denying others the conversations you want.

    Og – dude,

    I think that I have never been called ‘dude’ in meat space.

    we were talking about peeing and bathrooms.

    Which is a normal part of being human (subtract the bathroom part and it is a normal part of being a mammal). So of course, when I triggered, my first thought was that I was stupid and weak because I waded into a potential trigger even though I had no idea it would be a trigger (has anyone noticed I tend to blame myself?).

    a good laundry folding movie

    I know this is late, but have you tried Sergei Eisenstein’s Skladnyye Prachechnoy Isverzheniya Kapitalisticheskogo Ugnetateley? A beautiful love story involving the members of an informal soviet in an Imperial Russian Army laundry.

    I don’t understand why you think of such things in terms of strength and weakness. I think that’s something people indoctrinated you with – it doesn’t make actual sense as far as I can see.

    I tend to view everything as my fault and, when I am panicking or depressed, it tends to multiply itself. If I walk into a room and people are laughing, I know that they are laughing at me. If a pile of somebody else’s books slide of the table at work, I wonder, sometimes aloud, if I may have unbalanced them when I walked by them 15 minutes ago. I am hung up on the idea of control (the idea that if I am not in control of who I am (which would include being in control of my triggers (which is (of course) bullshit))) so the idea that I am not in control of my triggers is terrifying. I think it may be something I taught myself (but I think I had a depressed neurotic for a teacher).

    All the hangover, none of the “make the room spin” side effects.

    I think that is called the flu.

    got a new shiny! 1985 mazda rx7 with 76k original miles

    Cool. Those are some of the last minimalist sports cars (small engines, light body, great handling, minimal extras). Of course, in high school, we called the people who drove cars with Wankel rotary engines wankers.

    Alexandra @659, feministhivemind looks awesome.

    Seconded. The writing style is Audley familiar, though.

    I’m scheduled for surgery tonight, yay. :(

    yikes. Be safe. I hope you gave them the right name.

    ———

    Had a good and somewhat relaxing day. Won some money at the casino. Bought some cigars. Spent two hours smoking a Gurkha. Excellent.

    Made a pizza with roasted garlic, roasted sweet peppers, and roasted tomatoes rather than tomato sauce. Excellent.

  197. 697
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Damn. The cigar was a Gurkha Seduction gordo.

    Hugs to Dalillama.

  198. 698
    David Marjanović

    *heap of hugs for Ogvorbis*

    *heap of hugs for Eristae, who never seems to take a look in here*

  199. 699
    broboxley OT

    Og 696, if I get tired of wanking, one can flip the engine bracket backwards, and drop a 302 in there easy peasy, http://grannys.tripod.com/1stgenrx7fordv8.html

  200. 700
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    *tacklehugs!* for Oggie.

  201. 701
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    David Marjanović

    Danke.

    broboxley:

    Well, why not? I knew a kid who wedged a 351 Cleveland into a Vega.

  202. 702
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Oof.

  203. 703
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I do need to thank all of you, though. Really. When I triggered on Friday (well, your Sunday) and felt myself sliding down, I went back and reread some of the threads in which y’all talked me down (Lounge 393, I think?) and was able to walk myself through and put this in perspective — shitty but nothing to beat myself (or others (well, there is one . . .)) over. Thanks.

  204. 704
    cicely

    *hugs* for Ogvorbis. Not your fault.

    Spent two hours smoking a Gurkha.

    Which my mind remixed as “smoking a gherkin”.
    :)
    -

  205. 705
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Which my mind remixed as “smoking a gherkin”.

    Now that would have put me in a real pickle.

    It was full-flavoured, very mild body, rich and creamy smoke, and lasted about 2 hours. Helped me relax and think things through.

  206. 706
    broboxley OT

    well according to the link a 351 will fit as well with the right oil pan. Whats neat is that there is no major mods to be made.

  207. 707
    cicely

    But srsly, Og, I for one am willing to help talk you down as often as it takes.
    :) :) :)
    -

  208. 708
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    no major mods to be made.

    The suspension will handle that much weight?

  209. 709
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I for one am willing to help talk you down as often as it takes.

    You (and others) did. Rereading one of the old ‘Ogvorbis Breakdown’ threads helped me loads.

  210. 710
    carlie

    Ok people, did I miss it? Because I can’t believe that this thread is almost over and there have been NO pot jokes based on the lounge number.

    Alexandra, best of luck. And also for whoever is taking care of bowing to the whims of DarkBaby in your absence. :D

    Portia – I didn’t like the first episode at all. By the fourth it got a little better because I started to see the pattern. By the GOB episode I had completely bought in. However, it was still not as funny as I expected it to be. But I did like how instead of going for all of the old jokes, they did riffs on the old jokes. Back on the other hand, now that I’m more aware, a lot of the “har har ironic transphobia” lines I wouldn’t have really paid attention to before fell flat. I do want to go back and rewatch now that I know the whole thing to see what I missed.

  211. 711
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Because I can’t believe that this thread is almost over and there have been NO pot jokes based on the lounge number.

    Failure to grok in fullness.

  212. 712
    ednaz

    *Gentle pats on the shoulder for Alexandra*

    Doctors – Repair Alexandra properly. And be nice to her, too.

  213. 713
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    A grog for Ogvorbis to make his room spin properly after his trigger session.

    Best wishes to Alexandra for her upcoming surgery.

    My eagle-eyed internist saw a slight problem in some blood work, and had me have an ultrasound, a CAT scan, and referred me to an urologist in quick order. One kidney is working but not draining into the bladder. The urologist will put in a stent for drainage next week. No cutting involved, and in/out in the same day.

  214. 714
    carlie

    Og, you will just have to accept that we adore you and will do whatever we can to help you in whatever you need.

  215. 715
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

  216. 716
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    “Audley familiar”…
    Ooooh…the punning, it burns !!!

  217. 717
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Sorry, Azkyroth, I fell asleep on the job. Or was that the couch? *lights a comically-oversized joint*

  218. 718
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    *hugs* for Og.

    carlie:
    I agree with you, it was hard to get with the program for a couple episodes. And it wasn’t super funny. I got tired of the “Lindsay’s a poser” schtick pretty quickly. I would have liked more Maeby. I love Maeby.

  219. 719
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Ogvorbis420 Explained

  220. 720
    ednaz

    Nerd of Redhead

    Holy Smokes!

    May everything go well and may you get the best results possible.
    *gentle pats on the shoulder*

  221. 721
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    Firstly, I for one would like to second carlie at 714.

    Tis all.

  222. 722
    Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate)

    Eep, hope it goes well, Nerd.

    WMDKitty, better late than never ;)

  223. 723
    Pteryxx

    *leaves hugs for Og and Alexandra*

    drive-by awesome: chzbgr image link

  224. 724
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Right. I vaguely remember that from years (decades?) ago. Thanks. Just my hipster counter-counter culture perona shining through.

  225. 725
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    And the Bruins beat the Penguins (the team wearing black, white and yellow won!). Off to bed. G’night and thanks.

  226. 726
    chigau (違う)

    My netbook is completely fucked
    I may be back

  227. 727
    chigau (違う)

    I fucking hate fucking computers.
    I’m going back to postcards.

  228. 728
    ednaz

    I sent a bottle of rum through the USB for you, chigau. : D
    Hope it comes through o.k. and eases your computer pain.

  229. 729
    chigau (違う)

    Thanks ednaz.
    It’s welcome.
    I think I’ve lost all my bookmarks :(

  230. 730
    Hekuni Cat, MQG

    *hugs* for Alexandra and Nerd. I hope your procedures go smoothly and largely pain free.

  231. 731
    chigau (違う)

    Yes.
    virtual hugs and grog for all the meaty issues.

  232. 732
    Tony! The Queer Shoop

    chigau:
    Sorry to hear that your netbook died. Let me guess, you had A LOT of bookmarks?

  233. 733
    chigau (違う)

    Tony
    Oh my, yes.
    Tomorrow, I go to seek a geek.

  234. 734
    rq

    My sincerest Best Wishes for all Procedures and Surgeries on schedules for today. I hope all goes well, safely and quickly.

    *extra hugs* for Ogvorbis, and I’m still going to prioritize your right to a Safe Space over mine to have any conversation I want in here. It’s a kind of privilege I have, and deferring to your needs will cause me no harm whatsoever. Dude.

    Portia – no worries, if you have time, we can go on with the conversation, if not… Well, I’ll be up late yet again anyway, deadlines, deadlines.

    chigau
    With postcards, you may end up extremely threadrupt.
    And a lot of expenses. ;)
    (Good luck with the computer.)

  235. 735
    WMDKitty -- Survivor

    Fuck. Gracie didn’t come in tonight.

    Hope she’s just stuck in someone’s garage.

  236. 736
    Kevin, Youhao Huo Mao

    I need a major hug today… like seriously I’m going through a massive panick attack. I dropped the cap off my shaving cream and started to shake uncontrollably (makes it hard to shave when you’re doing that.)

    I called in sick, and I’m probably going to write and do chores at the apartment, but seriously… it sucks.

  237. 737
    carlie

    Katherine – many hugs! Also, emergency cute.

  238. 738
    rq

    Katherine
    *hugs*

  239. 739
    rq

    Sew.
    Exercise as inspired by Horses (special for cicely).

    And Iris (no, not that one – creepy video, by the way)! With a (I do believe) potential black one, special for opposablethumbs. And a few others in between those bookends.

  240. 740
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    This had me really conflicted, and I thought that other people might appreciate a gander.

    Sticking to the principal of Freedom of Expression can be really fucking difficult sometimes :(

  241. 741
    PZ Myers

    NEW THREAD.

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