I can think of a few other scumbags from that era whose demise would prompt me to break out the Macarena, too.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I can think of a few other scumbags from that era whose demise would prompt me to break out the Macarena, too.
Yeah but Bill Cosby is getting out of prison so… you just can’t win on any given day I guess.
Kissinger is still walking around, free. And Dick Cheney is still waiting for his heart to reject him.
But Rumsfeld, who seems to have thought highly of himself, is now equal.
The Onion describes Rumsfeld as a “Weapon of Mass Destruction.”
“Kissinger is still walking around, free.” Jeez, Kissinger is 98.
I truly regret Rumsfeld’s death – because now there’s no possibility that by some miracle justice will be done and he would have died in prison some day, having known a tiny fraction of the horrors he inflicted on millions of people around the world, especially in Iraq and in Bush’s Gulag. Rumsfeld is one of those people that make me wish there really were a god of justice wthl a prison called Hell. Rumsfeld would be serving a maximum sentence there by now.
Call me when it’s Trump.
So, if I believed in Hell Rummy is there now, with a pitchfork up his colon. Can’t wait for Kissinger. And Hi, Donald! You’re another who needs to drop dead. Am I violating the comment standards? Sorry
@Autobot:
National Freakin’ Holiday for the Not Unhinged. Maybe Ding Dong the Dick is Dead? I don’t know, help me out
Shrug.
He lived way too long considering.
Two of my friends were killed in Iraq.
They are still dead.
I will definitely raise a glass of wine tonight in celebration though.
Let the obituary white-washing begin.
Rummy and Cheney were minions of Dubya, the guy who also lowered the bar so far that Trump could walk over it. Lest we forget.
stroppy @9: Dubya was the minion.
@stroppy: Were they minions, or were they the ones who were really calling the shots behind the scenes?
Charges to be filed against Trump Inc.tomorrow.
Canada celebrates national holiday on the same day.
Co-incidence?
He was no doubt receptive to what they had to say, but that doesn’t let him off the hook. Their views were in sync with his views in regards to “strategery” and he no qualms with the ends justifying the means, imo. They all came to the game immersed in same toxic culture.
My memory is a little shaky, but I think he was the one who bullied Powell into submission, fwiw. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I honestly forgot the guy was still alive considering how quiet he’s been the last half a decade or so.
@14
he was a “good republican” not wanting to do or say anything to bring negative scrutiny to the republican pres.
an asshole and a politician
stroppy @13: I don’t think anyone’s trying to let Shrub off the hook, just establish who was in charge. And you’re right that he was the one who was responsible for getting Powell to go along with the stupidity.
@Autobot Silverwynde, #5:
See, I understand that sentiment, because I feel it too. Yet compared to G-Dub and his crew with the stupendous human cost that their military adventures have inflicted on the world, it seems like the worst thing about Trump is that he’s rude.
[kermit flail]
YAAAAAY!
@16–
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld played on Powell’s appallingly stupid militaristic* version of loyalty, but only one person is responsible for Powell’s decision to lie to the UN. That person is Powell. Nobody was holding a gun to his head.
*(I say appallingly stupid because Powell’s actions directly contradict the official US military code of values, which puts foremost emphasis on loyalty to the US Constitution before anything else. And specifically the code states “Put the welfare of the nation, the Army and your subordinates before your own.” There is no way that Powell could possibly believe that lying to the UN to foment war with Iraq could be possibly be good for the nation, the army, or the many thousands of subordinates who died or were left with permanent disability. According to his own fucking values, he should have refused to perjure himself and by extension the entire US polity. And yes I know he wasn’t speaking under oath, but given the momentous implications of his lies, I’m more than happy to call it perjury. Certainly the repercussions of those lies were far, far more devastating than any of the quotidian criminal perjuries being made daily in American courtrooms.)
Ishikiri–
Trump isn’t just rude, he ushered in a regime of criminal corruption that penetrated every nook of American political life. It is true, however, that he is the first president since Ford to finish his term without a new war.
@#9, stroppy:
It began a long time ago, when the Obama administration failed to push for war crimes trials in order to not have to answer awkward questions about Biden or Clinton.
Sorry for the stupid question, but what was the actual reason for the Iraq war? I still don’t get it. Was it military contractors?
@lotharloo #22:
Oil. Iraq had the fifth-largest reserve in the world, which (if there hadn’t been so much damage to the country’s industrial capacity during the invasion and in the resistance to it afterwards) could have been used to flood the market and undermine OPEC. The invasion would also end the threat that Iraq, foremost among other countries, posed to using the euro instead of the dollar as the international medium of exchange for the commodity.
@chrislawson, #20:
Sure, and he also stacked the judiciary with right-wing psychos, albeit at the behest of groups like the Federalist Society. But like I said, in terms of total lives lost the Bush II Administration was far worse, and while I would take immense pleasure in Trump’s (preferably violent) death, I don’t really feel anything for Rumsfeld although I’m glad he’s gone. I feel like that reflects poorly on me.
Vicar (mono) @21, nope.
@Rich Woods:
I had obviously heard about the oil reason but I don’t think the numbers are there and a lot of the contracts were won by non-US companies.
Rest on peas.
Ishkiri — I wasn’t disputing your assessment of the Junior Bush Regime’s place in history. I was responding only to your statement that “the worst thing about Trump is that he’s rude.” That’s all. I don’t think we have any significant disagreement here.
I remember a lot of people taking it as fact, even back then, that Bush Jr was being puppeteered by the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld, but at the time I was too young (and too foreign) to really evaluate the signs for myself.
Can anyone recap why it seemed so obvious?
@lotharloo #26:
I don’t think it matters in the least that some contracts were given to non-US companies, because the primary concern was that they increase oil production in order to force global prices down (advertised as funding Iraq’s recovery, of course). As it was, because of the post-invasion disruption overall production in Iraq didn’t return to the 2002 pre-threat high until 2009. However Hussein’s move towards selling oil for euros rather than dollars was rolled back by the Iraqi government, and that was the major threat to the petrodollar which would have had consequences for the deficit funding of the US economy. Bush undid all of Clinton’s work on balancing the economy due to the cost of his GWOT and through his promised tax cuts — government revenue (proportional to GDP) was cut by a fifth in his first term.
@Rich Woods:
I hear those but still they don’t sounds very convincing. As you say, oil production slumped (a predictable outcome of war) for years, oil contracts didn’t go to US companies (I guess US could have avoided that by trying to install a puppet government, but they didn’t). The switch from US to Euro is really peanuts and a ridiculous reason for a war. Basically, what I am saying is that once you look at the numbers, “Iraq war was for oil” sounds like post hoc reasoning. Why would Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and co care about a slight increase in oil production 10 or more years down the line? It just doesn’t add up.
Bush was the guy to vote for because he was the kind of guy you wanted to drink beer with at your backyard barbeque. Good at schmoozing. Not obviously evil and easy to hate, in contrast to Cheney for instance. And he was no doubt a big hit with his Skull and Crossbones buds as well. Easy to overlook his smirky meaness.
lotharloo @ 22
Not a stupid question. It’s a very good question.
— To steal oil. It was there for the taking and it would pay for the war.
— On the theory that it would protect Israel.
— Delusion and ignorance — to transform the middleast once and for all eternity according to God’s evangelical Christian plan for the world.
— Because why not? Afghanistan seemed easy. The stain of Viet Nam was being washed out supposedly, and it was back to BAU and imperial “strateegery.”
Ah, The Fog of War.
(Me at 32 continued.)
And yeah, Cheney and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
for Haliburton.
lotharloo @2:
Because when a bully gets his nose bloodied (911), someone has to be kicked, doesn’t much matter who. Iraq was winnable, and also consistent with the Ledeen doctrine; “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business”.
Also, Dubya wanted to finish the job his daddy declined to do.
The rest (profits for Halliburton, etc) was just gravy.
That should be @22, not @2.
Big fan but dancing when someone dies? Don’t sink to their level.
Big fan but dancing when someone dies? Don’t sink to their level.
Dauphni @ # 29: Can anyone recap why it seemed so obvious?
Throughout his political career, GW Bush relied very heavily on those around him, particularly Karl Rove (widely nicknamed “Bush’s Brain”, much to Bush’s annoyance). As Governor of Texas, he mostly went along with what Lt. Gov Bob Bullock told him; as a presidential candidate, he needed his daddy”s fixer, former Secretary of State Jim Baker, to get him through the Florida vote-counting debacle.
When Bush Jr needed to pick a vice-president, he passed the job off to a campaign advisor named Dick Cheney, who helpfully provided a list of names – and a list of reasons why each was unacceptable … except for one. That one, by amazing coincidence, was – Dick Cheney! (Who was later shown also guilty of having not voted in the presidential primary race that year, a sin for which he scratched off at least one of his “competitors” for Veep.)
In just about everything he did, the Shrub needed someone else to guide him: he was putty in the hands of a savvy old Washington insider and game-player like Rumsfeld.
Yeah, but it’s hard to draw a line between being manipulated or deliberately choosing advisors who will help you create the environment you want. I mean you’re being manipulated if you’re being maneuvered into doing something you really wouldn’t want if you weren’t so clueless.
Bush’s style may have been more passive than some presidents, but suggesting he’s a complete dupe seems like an oversimplification to me.
What, our very own NutraSweetie? ;->
His bio reads like an American version of the quintessential
“Alpha Male”(TM). (And in the private sector, he did it all —
pharmaceuticals, electronics, and biotechnology.)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/us/politics/donald-rumsfeld-dead.html
+++++
Donald H. Rumsfeld, Defense Secretary During Iraq War, Is Dead at 88
Mr. Rumsfeld, who served four presidents, oversaw a war that many
said should never have been fought. But he said the removal of
Saddam Hussein had “created a more stable and secure world.”
By Robert D. McFadden
Published June 30, 2021
Updated July 1, 2021
. . .
Mr. Rumsfeld had been an athlete at Princeton and a Navy
fighter pilot after the Korean War, and when he got to
Washington in 1957 he seemed like an All-American who had
stepped off the Wheaties box — a strikingly handsome
Midwesterner radiating confidence, taking on big tasks and
doing everything well. . .
+++++
lotharloo 31
First of all the USA did try to install a puppet government in Iraq. The way the US government at first tried to impose a new Constitution in Iraq indicates that and there was a lot of talk about de-nationalizing the Iraq oil industry and selling it off. And besides the US did indeed acquire a lot of influence in Iraq. At the time it was painfully obvious that the Bush II administration wanted Iraq to be conduit of American influence in the Middle East. During Saddam’s trial great care was made to avoid dragging in the unpleasant fact of US support for Saddam before the invasion of Kuwait. (Thus largely ignored were certain Saddam atrocities like the Anfal campaign. Or US downplaying of Saddam’s use of poison gas etc.)
It instead happened that Iran has acquired a lot of influence in Iraq a totally unintended effect. Especially so since many in the Bush II administration wanted to get rid of Mullah dominated Iran.
“NutraSweetie”
Obscure, I don’t know what that means. Sounds insulting, though.
@ravensneo
Wrong. “Sinking to his level” would be rounding up every Bush administration defense and intelligence official, throwing them in a cell with no trial, and torturing them for the rest of their lives. Dancing on Rumsfeld’s grave is a pale shadow of that psychopath’s deeds.
Also from
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/us/politics/donald-rumsfeld-dead.html
+++++
Leaving government for the first time in 15 years,
Mr. Rumsfeld became president and chief executive of
G.D. Searle & Company, the pharmaceutical maker,
which was struggling. He turned the company around by
cutting costs, selling subsidiaries and developing the
artificial sweetener NutraSweet [aspartame], which made
billions after its approval by the Food and Drug Administration.
In 1985, the company was sold to Monsanto, a move that made
Mr. Rumsfeld wealthy. . .
From 1990 to 1993, Mr. Rumsfeld was chairman and chief
executive of the General Instrument Corporation, an
electronics manufacturer that specialized in cable,
satellite and ground-based broadcasting applications
and pioneered the first all-digital high-definition
television technology. Mr. Rumsfeld took the company
public and made another fortune.
From 1997 to 2001, he was chairman of Gilead Sciences,
the developer of Tamiflu, used in the treatment of bird flu.
After he became defense secretary in 2001, he recused
himself from any decisions involving Gilead, but his holdings
in the company grew substantially when avian flu prompted
widespread anxiety over a possible pandemic. . .
+++++
@DrVanNostrand
Sorry, just pointing out that dancing on someone’s grave makes you look like the type of person that would dance on someone’s grave.
Ravensneo @45:
Not just “someone.” Donald “we don’t do body counts” fucking Rumsfeld.
Sheesh. I do not feel that dancing on his grave fully encompasses the level of hatred this man deserved. He escaped justice but at least now he can do no more harm. I am ec-fucking-static about that fact. If only it were sooner hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved and millions would have avoided suffering due to his war-hawking. Fuck this anguish over respectability.
Frankly, I think the way things are going, we may need to dismember the corpses of rightwing nutjobs. Not only is the appropriate for traitors, it will this keep them from coming back as zombies, and then we can segregate regions of “the grave” into dancing and areas where one may wish to do “something else” on the grave.
There is a great article in the Guardian about” MR Duck Shoes” .lol.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/05/donald-rumsfeld-iraq-war-defence-secretary-legacy