Say he got word that some terrorist had kidnapped hundreds of babies and was holding them hostage until the government met his ransom demands — and he’s no piker, he’s asking for tens of billions of dollars.
Well, I’m a little disappointed that no action hero has stepped forward to deal with this situation.
Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border to at least three “tender age” shelters in South Texas, The Associated Press has learned.
Lawyers and medical providers who have visited the Rio Grande Valley shelters described play rooms of crying preschool-age children in crisis. The government also plans to open a fourth shelter to house hundreds of young migrant children in Houston, where city leaders denounced the move Tuesday.
Since the White House announced its zero tolerance policy in early May, more than 2,300 children have been taken from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border, resulting in a new influx of young children requiring government care.
Rachel Maddow has the response I would make, because I’m no action hero either.
So what we have here is, surely, a crime against humanity if there ever was one. America, land of the genocides (Canada included).
Also, Rachel’s moment should be on every T.V. screen for the next two weeks. You go girl!
In my heart of hearts, I want to believe that the swaggering jackoffs that glibly talk about “showing them furriners that ‘Merica means business” now grasp the human cost of turning campaign braggadocio into actual policy.
They won’t, obviously, but I can dream.
What many don’t understand is that they don’t think of these babies, their siblings or their mothers and fathers as human beings with feelings, hopes, fears etc. as we have them. I don’t believe there are this many sociopaths, so many people without any empathy not just in charge, but doing the actual deeds. The only way that a feeling person can handle something like this, is if you deny the people you do this to their humanity, consider them subhuman. It’s how an entire country could send their neighbours into concentration camps: Germans during the Nazi regime weren’t all sociopaths, either. But they denied the humanity of their victims to deal with what inhuman things they wanted done to them.
Ad 4: And that’s why not everybody will choke up when thinking or talking about this. If one thinks of this as happening to other people, it’s hard not to choke up. Think of them as… not that… and it’s easier to justify, easier to handle.
For mine Susan (et al I assume here) it is not even the swaggering jackoffs you refer to that I find hardest to understand. There are people at the pointiest of pointy ends of this policy who are physically taking children off the parents. How do you be that person carrying a screaming toddler away? What is going on inside that guys head when he was cracking orchestra jokes? What do you even say to your fellow parent and/or your own kids on the way out the door to go to work when you all know what that day at the office is going to involve?
For those who weren’t watching, Rachel’s whole first act tonight was “They Want This,” the point being that Trump and his base are feeding off of the outrage caused by this policy and see it as in their political best interests. The cruelty’s a feature, not a bug.
You’re tougher than me, Rachel. I was in tears last night when you played that audio tape.
Well, Saganite got to it perhaps as I was typing, i suppose.
@ 4 Saganite: Through moral deference, I think most of these agents of evil avoid thinking about it at all, or at the very least avoid letting their thoughts influence their actions. The Milgram experiment didn’t require dehumanization. It made it easier, but it didn’t require it.
A lot of the comments I see on various news sites are people blaming the parents for putting their children in this situation. “What kind of loving parent would put their children in such danger by bringing them here, knowing what they will face?” is the general sentiment, rather than asking “Why are we the danger they will face?”
There is a real disconnect in information going on here, where a lot of people think this situation involves people caught sneaking across the border to Take Our Jerbs™, rather than people turning to Border Patrol asking for asylum because where they came from is even more dangerous and they can’t afford to wait there to see if it gets better.
I don’t do newsfeeds or twitter or whatever but usually there are a wad of celebrities saying stuff about this kind of stuff that I usually read here.
Where are they?
@indianajones As for those people, I don’t know whether to damn or pity them. The human mind is a powerful engine of self-delusion and there are always ways for even the best people to rationalize any horror (cite: the entirety of human history). And, assuming this doesn’t get a “mulligan” it’s going to be these people taking the brunt of the punishment while those who gave the orders avoid any accountability.
@Susan Montgomery:
I personally would say “Damn them.” Even before I had children, I would have sat down and cried after the first attempt to separate parent and child. I wouldn’t have the strength of will to actually quit, but I would just not do the job.
As others have said, they have to not even see these people as humans in order to separate them like this. The average person would have trouble separating most mammal infants and toddlers (equivalent) from their parents, let alone humans from their parents/children.
I wonder what Malcolm X would have to say about our dear leader and his regime
uncle frogy
@methuseus It doesn’t happen all at once. I recommend a book called “Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me) for a detailed look at how this corruption grows slowly, almost imperceptibly. A question I would like to ask is why these people are so corrupted already that it doesn’t prove to be a problem.
I would tend to go with ‘whatever makes it most likely that these people and others like them knock that shit off and never do it again’
As noted in a previous comment, that is one of the (many) angles being spouted by the nazis’s propagandist machinery. Others include:
● Trying to draw an analogy with the jailing of Paul Manafort: .
● .
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And on and on and on. Including outright lies, such as circulating a picture of Syrian children, in Syria, holding guns, and all-but-saying these are the children being separated from their families.
If you want to know how this turns out in the end, ask the Romanians.
Dunno about twittering, fracebork, and the other Russian media (a possible clew right there (semi-snark)), but they are there; e.g., Bruce Springsteen denounces ‘inhumane’ border policy during show:
Also, some people are threatening to stop producing for Fox, Child separations: TV makers threaten to boycott ‘evil’ Fox over coverage. Some have actually done something, e.g.:
What I am mostly seeing in the reliable press are “heavyweight” actions — Governors recalling the National Guard from border harassment duties; condemnations from the UN, Amnesty International, and various governments (e.g., Ireland); the ACLU suing; New York state also suing (New York to sue Trump over treatment of immigrant families); and similar. Also, Facebook campaign to help separated children seeks $1,500 but gets $7.5m:
Ok, kudos to Facebook on that last point.
There are also reports of competent lawyers donating their time, etc…
A group noticeably absent are the frothing xian wannabe-theocrats, A moral crisis grips the US border. Yet the religious right is shamefully silent.
FWIW, the current misinformation campaign being pushed by the right is that the policy of separating families that apply for assylum was created by Democrats.
this, is an outright lie. the only policy ever set up was to deal with children that showed up at the border WITHOUT parents, in order to figure out how to reconnect them with parents.
there never, ever was a policy of separation, especially in response to assylum seeking, which bluntly put, is actually illegal by our own laws (the separating assylum seekers).
no, this “policy” came directly from the mouth of one of Cheeto Mussolini’s own picks for the Dept. of Homeland Security (which I still say needs to be immediately abolished in entirety), John Kelly.
https://scontent.fakl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35431157_1811691812472300_7601207458031206400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeGNDbuPYwPNESeT1LGtzAd_1x1pFaN6jluHObywBR4SMHhuhrC10n9NB16nyXDEnaXY5V_UzidpFNDxD9HG36mAW5339z-Y2TKYLyhXAdkvZw&oh=2bc274301bae6f4d9d79fccfe8f68e14&oe=5BEC016D
don’t know if that will come through or not, but it’s a screenshot of John Kelly describing his new policy on Mar 6, 2017.
“Not cages, they look to me like fenced pens”, he said on Fux News.
You know synonyms are synonymous, ie mean the same. Stop trying to confuse the issue with word games.
–
These people are coming here, desperate to provide safety to their children, willing to do the jobs left empty by resident Americans, harvesting crops etc. and when lining up at the single legal entry door, are turned away, go away, and resort to nearby doors left open with “no entry” above them and LEO lying in wait at honey trap to round up more bargaining chips hot their sacred leeder [sic].
This whole thing is making me sick. I’mnoffbyo barf
teawithbertrand @ #7:
Prior to seeing the clip in the OP online this morning, I had only seen Maddow’s first block, “They Want This.” In it, she shows a clip from Fox earlier in the night where a guest on a panel mentions the report of a 10-year-old girl with Down Syndrome being separated from her mother and brother, and Cory Lewandowski responds “Womp womp” (the host just sat there like a blank-faced soulless jerk, because Fox). Talking about that sickening callousness and then being hit with the AP report was a lot.
Meanwhile Corey Lewandowski mocks a 10 year old girl with Down Syndrome. And I’m asked to give Trump a chance.
I think it’s time to call these “detention centers” what they really are. Concentration camps. For fucking children. There are no fuckiing words.
The GOP’s #1 operating rule is a form of Blamecasting (their favorite activity): “If you can point to someone else, in some other time, who did a thing vaguely similar to what you’ve just been caught doing, then you’re off the hook and can keep doing it.”
With their multiple-pronged lie, “Obama passed (#1) a law (#2) that you can do this (#3),” they have satisfied their #1 rule and can now go back to throwing infants in Kiddie Kamp with what passes for a clear conscience over there.
At this point, Trump voters should be treated like the Germans that voted for Hitler, back in 1932.
How long before the epidemics of childhood diseases start sweeping these baby jails? Guessing a large percentage of kidnapped children are unvaccinated.
Which means that the US will start a global war, millions of people will die, economies will collapse, and in the end the US will pay for all of it.
That would be bad. We’d better avoid it, if we can.
The only speck of light I see, is that in the end Germany became one of the most democratic and civilized countries in the world.
The crime? FAMILIES seeking a decent life. PARENTS with their CHILDREN.
So, take a long hard look, Amurika: those are the “very bad hombres” you heard tell about! They obviously must be, otherwise they wouldn’t have to be treated so harshly. How else can one dissuade these “very bad hombres” from pursuing their dreams of “infesting” our country? Why, you separate the kids from the parents and put them in “tender age” cages. That’ll show ’em, by God! Then if anybody objects, blame anybody and everybody else for forcing them to do it.
Evil psychopathic fascist Nazi lying bastards.
From the Gruniad’s live blog, Trump doubles down on family separation policy as ‘tender age’ shelters stoke outrage (15:55 mark, slight edits for formatting reasons (not marked)):
When I checked, that’s essentially true. Compared to the US subpage at the Grauniad’s International site, e.g., where eight of the top ten “most viewed” articles are about the concentration camps, there is nothing (two(?) of many many stories). One (Warning: faux news link), Kevin Costner slams Trump’s border immigration policies, says he’s ‘not recognizing America right now’, touches what is happening, albeit it’s in the “Entertainment” section and is mostly about Mr Costner’s current project:
I have not verified the above-quouted faux excerpt, but it seems plausible. More to the point, this “Entertainment” article was about the only — and earliest listed — mention at the site. It never explains or references what “the border policy” is, albeit since they’d probably misrepresent it (see @17 & @21), that is perhaps a “good” thing.
There’s some pushback from, of all groups, the Southern Baptists: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/southern-baptists-call-off-the-culture-war/563000/
If this is what it appears to be on its face, all I can say is good for them. I’ll note that I’ve been fooled before, but I guess I’m just a Pollyanna, deep down. At least I hope I still am.
I can’t believe the number of excuses I’m seeing from the Right blaming the parents for bringing their children along to “break the law”.
These parents are friggin seeking SANCTUARY FFS. They aren’t flocking here to steal all the good hotel housekeeping and residential landscaping gigs red-blooded Amuricans are clamoring for. They’re just hoping to give their kids a chance.
Fuck Trump. Fuck “Voice for Women” Ivanka. Fuck all the spineless Republicans “infesting” Capitol Hill. It’s a good thing you’ve kept Guantanamo open, because nobody else has done more to terrorize, to harm this nation and erode its purported values than you. I hope you enjoy those chain link cells as much as these poor children have. Just think of the taxpayer dollars you’ll save not needing a tanning bed, Donald. I can’t believe that acts you’ve treat so cavalierly can bring out what I feel to be the absolute worst, most hateful in me. I shudder to think how I might feel if your inhumanity somehow sinks to even lower depths.
For someone who values his name, his “brand” so much, you’ve got to be a fucking idiot not to realize how your presidency will be viewed/taught for the rest of American history. By the time Barron graduates from college, his surname will be a curse, an albatross around his neck. Good thing he’ll have his inheritance to live on. Something millions of others won’t, and will suffer for, thanks to you.
How can we ignore child refugees facing cruelty and toxic stress?:
This is how it ends – the American ideals I thought I grew up with – through being inured to the constant horrors slowly ramping up every week. I wish I could say it’s the beginning of the end but we all know it’s been going for awhile now. There are no mass protests in the street. No large groups of enraged citizenry demanding an end to this. A year ago, I believe there might have been. A year ago I could have imagined people marching on the centers where these kids are being held. Not now. Apathy has set in. Another day in America, another horror unleashed, but hey, at least the stock market is up, Right?! Right.
I’m guilty of it too. I’m numbed by watching what I thought to be the values of my nation stripped away and systematically destroyed for the last 18 months (longer to be fair, but openly now like never before). I’m horrified at the neighbors and family members I see embracing the xenophobia, hate, and lies. I’m aghast that I never saw this in them before – for surely it was already there, this is nothing that newly arrived.
I was naive.
I know our history. I thought we had learned from it, we were growing past it (though with a long way to go yet). I was wrong. Many haven’t learned. They just kept quiet with their hatred. Now I’m one of them – I hate: not the immigrants, not the minorities, not the vulnerable… I hate the people that espouse hatred of the “other”. Some would say that’s OK…but it isn’t – because hatred is always about the “other”, its just a matter of definition – and it always leads to destruction.
I despair for my country. I despair for it’s soul though I now know that the soul I hoped it had, never was.
Children are being ripped from their parents at my border. They are being placed in warehouse, in cages, like so much livestock. It foreshadows a future that looks far too much like the worst of our past.
This is America.
: David Horowitz, the thinker who sponsored Stephen Miller:
When are the reactionaries coming in screeching Maddow is a “crisis actor”?
There absolutely is a non-trivial chance of this happening.
If you had said, “in the end the U.S. will be impoverished, cast out and treated as a pariah,” I might have agreed. You may have meant that but your choice of words was at least unfortunate.
Five hours ago, maybe — browsing the account, and heavily based on what is retwitteringed, they are a wingnut.
No, strike the “maybe”. They are a loon — the preceding twittering:
I can tell you exactly why.
the vast bulk of their authoritarian leaning personalities were simply wiped out in the war.
they got 2 generations of basically no authoritarians running for government positions.
you can do the same thing without the slaughter though. it’s just that non-authoritarians must actually participate more in government, and run for office themselves.
but, that won’t happen.
so… there will be blood, and an entire generation of authoritarians who were lied to about who their enemy really was, will end up being slaughtered, again. This is our history, all of us, across the world, for as long as there have been humans.