Except, instead of holding one umbrella, the top-hat guy is holding two and refuses to give the extra umbrella to the other guy.
For example, there are about 5 to 6 times as many vacant homes in America as there are homeless people.
blfsays
They are both thieves, stealing the rain. Neither one of them paid for it. Lazy moochers!
peptronsays
@ MJP #1:
But but, homeless people WANT to be homeless!
(Seriously, a lot of libertarian types seem to embrace a variation of karmic law: no matter what happens to you, not only do you deserve it, but you actually wanted it.)
redwoodsays
The smug fellow assured me of how dry it was under his umbrella as I trudged beside him, at least until it began raining red drops from his throat. His gurgles mixed in with the sounds of the water as it ran through the gutter.
Wait, did I get this comment mixed up with the two-sentence horror story response?
Chie Satonakasays
Except, instead of holding one umbrella, the top-hat guy is holding two and refuses to give the extra umbrella to the other guy.
Also, the guy without an umbrella actually works at the factory making them, but can’t afford one of his own. And the guy with the umbrella’s family has owned the factory for generations, uses federal resources to run their business, but guy with umbrella still thinks he “earned” his umbrella without any help from anyone.
Alverantsays
@ MJP #1:
Source please
Patrick Phenowsays
The always important alt-text: “Listen, I’m not even 100% convinced that it’s raining. Or that rain exists.”
The information is from late 2011, but at that time, there were 3.5 million homeless and 18.5 million vacant homes. The ratio comes out to about 5.3.
unclefrogysays
and so it was until another mam showed up with out an umbrella, soon there were two men sharing an umbrella and one man struggling in the rain
uncle frogy
Compared to the general population, libertarians are significantly more likely to be non-Hispanic white, male, and young. Nearly all libertarians are non-Hispanic whites (94%), more than two-thirds (68%) are men, and more than 6-in-10 (62%) are under the age of 50.
…
Libertarians are composed of a disproportionately high number of white mainline Protestants (27%) and religiously unaffiliated Americans (27%). Only about 1-in-10 (11%) libertarians identify as Catholic, and no libertarians identify as black Protestant.
I was disappointed to see that there was no data on income (although to get meaningful results I think you’d need to look at parents’ income or else exclude college students). But the survey questionnaire indicates that there were a bunch of questions that have been withheld for future release.
opposablethumbssays
I’m sorry, I really am. But not quite sorry enough to refrain from the obligatory:
The rain it raineth on the just,
And also on the unjust fella.
But chiefly on the just, because
The unjust stole the just’s umbrella.
So for total numbers in a year, there are more than 4 times as many vacant homes as homeless. For any given week, there are almost 17 times more vacant homes than homeless.
Seems MJP is pretty accurate in his comments.
Alverantsays
I wasn’t denying MJP was correct, just looking for a source because that seemed rather unlikely.
rationalinkssays
My cousin is a die hard libertarian (Ayn Rand and Von Misses worshiper type). I argue with him all the time about this kind of crap. He’s not wealthy nor did he come from wealth. I just can’t fathom how someone who has taken advantage of government programs and come out ahead (he was homeless at one point in time) can buy into that nonsense.
Markita Lynda—threadruptsays
I suppose it could run either way: he knows he’s a great fellow, therefore he deserves his present comfortable life; or he has a comfortable life now so he must deserve it and therefore he will never be homeless or poor again. One rationalization is soothing to the ego and the other is a cantrip against anxiety.
Markita Lynda—threadruptsays
Of course, either way there’s no Rational Reason for him to help anyone who is currently in difficulty.
busterggisays
If only a squirrel had buried an acorn next to them forty years earlier and forgotten it – there would be a wonderful oak treet that could protect them both.
But that would be socialism.
screechymonkeysays
rationalinks@14:
I just can’t fathom how someone who has taken advantage of government programs and come out ahead (he was homeless at one point in time) can buy into that nonsense.
There was some polling data recently that showed that a large percentage of people who claim not to have ever received any benefits from a government program when the question is asked in a general way, will admit to having used specific programs. I think there’s some rationalization going on about what “counts” as government help, and what they “earned.” Sort of like the Tea Party folks with “Get government’s hands off my Medicare!” signs.
That’s his “use” umbrella.
He has a collection of several hundred diamond-encrusted limited edition ones that he doesn’t use in order to keep them “mint.”
Loftysays
The not-rich are supposed to aspire to be like the rich and entitled, whom they admire deeply, by working really really hard. That is the fiction the rich and entitled have sold them. If you slave away for 18 hours a day, eventually you will earn your very own umbrella.
MJPsays
There was some polling data recently that showed that a large percentage of people who claim not to have ever received any benefits from a government program when the question is asked in a general way, will admit to having used specific programs. I think there’s some rationalization going on about what “counts” as government help, and what they “earned.” Sort of like the Tea Party folks with “Get government’s hands off my Medicare!” signs.
A while back, the Daily Show played a clip of some celebrity on Fox News saying “I’ve been on food stamps. I’ve been on welfare. Did anyone help me out? No!”
I think it’s part of a tendency towards “othering” people on welfare, probably rooted in the welfare queen stereotype/myth. They’re saying “yeah, I’ve been on welfare, but I’m not one of those people.“
Rey Foxsays
busterggi: Investing in the future is even worse than socialism.
“I just can’t fathom how someone who has taken advantage of government programs and come out ahead (he was homeless at one point in time) can buy into that nonsense.”
It seems to me that there is this childish notion of morality at play. Good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people. An amoral universe is just too scary or complex.
Pierce R. Butlersays
Had only the fellow in the derby spent more time listening to The Hollies, he could have made this situation into a beautiful romance.
Acolyte of Sagansays
I know the cartoon was just metaphor, or analogy, or figuratively metaphorical (H/T Author) but….sharing a brolly does result in a certain amount of unavoidable body-contact, so if the chap with the brolly had just said that he doesn’t feel comfortable having strangers invading his personal space, there wouldn’t be a problem.
What a Maroon, el papa ateosays
@25, 26,
Traditional umbrella sharing is between one man and one woman. Allowing two men to share an umbrella would be a threat to the institution of umbrella sharing.
jimfoleysays
Reminds me of that classic quote about George W. Bush: “Born on third base and thought he had hit a home run”.
Gvlgeologist, FCDsays
Born on third base and thought he had hit a home run”
Except, instead of holding one umbrella, the top-hat guy is holding two and refuses to give the extra umbrella to the other guy.
For example, there are about 5 to 6 times as many vacant homes in America as there are homeless people.
They are both thieves, stealing the rain. Neither one of them paid for it. Lazy moochers!
@ MJP #1:
But but, homeless people WANT to be homeless!
(Seriously, a lot of libertarian types seem to embrace a variation of karmic law: no matter what happens to you, not only do you deserve it, but you actually wanted it.)
The smug fellow assured me of how dry it was under his umbrella as I trudged beside him, at least until it began raining red drops from his throat. His gurgles mixed in with the sounds of the water as it ran through the gutter.
Wait, did I get this comment mixed up with the two-sentence horror story response?
Also, the guy without an umbrella actually works at the factory making them, but can’t afford one of his own. And the guy with the umbrella’s family has owned the factory for generations, uses federal resources to run their business, but guy with umbrella still thinks he “earned” his umbrella without any help from anyone.
@ MJP #1:
Source please
The always important alt-text: “Listen, I’m not even 100% convinced that it’s raining. Or that rain exists.”
Source:
http://blog.amnestyusa.org/us/housing-its-a-wonderful-right/
The information is from late 2011, but at that time, there were 3.5 million homeless and 18.5 million vacant homes. The ratio comes out to about 5.3.
and so it was until another mam showed up with out an umbrella, soon there were two men sharing an umbrella and one man struggling in the rain
uncle frogy
Here’s a timely survey:
I was disappointed to see that there was no data on income (although to get meaningful results I think you’d need to look at parents’ income or else exclude college students). But the survey questionnaire indicates that there were a bunch of questions that have been withheld for future release.
I’m sorry, I really am. But not quite sorry enough to refrain from the obligatory:
The rain it raineth on the just,
And also on the unjust fella.
But chiefly on the just, because
The unjust stole the just’s umbrella.
More current info shows the number of vacant homes are at 14.2 million (http://www.realtytrac.com/content/news-and-opinion/americas-142-million-vacant-homes-a-national-crisis-7723).
The number of 3.5 million is based on people that are typically homeless at any point during a given year. At any given time, the number is about 850,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#Other_statistics).
So for total numbers in a year, there are more than 4 times as many vacant homes as homeless. For any given week, there are almost 17 times more vacant homes than homeless.
Seems MJP is pretty accurate in his comments.
I wasn’t denying MJP was correct, just looking for a source because that seemed rather unlikely.
My cousin is a die hard libertarian (Ayn Rand and Von Misses worshiper type). I argue with him all the time about this kind of crap. He’s not wealthy nor did he come from wealth. I just can’t fathom how someone who has taken advantage of government programs and come out ahead (he was homeless at one point in time) can buy into that nonsense.
I suppose it could run either way: he knows he’s a great fellow, therefore he deserves his present comfortable life; or he has a comfortable life now so he must deserve it and therefore he will never be homeless or poor again. One rationalization is soothing to the ego and the other is a cantrip against anxiety.
Of course, either way there’s no Rational Reason for him to help anyone who is currently in difficulty.
If only a squirrel had buried an acorn next to them forty years earlier and forgotten it – there would be a wonderful oak treet that could protect them both.
But that would be socialism.
rationalinks@14:
There was some polling data recently that showed that a large percentage of people who claim not to have ever received any benefits from a government program when the question is asked in a general way, will admit to having used specific programs. I think there’s some rationalization going on about what “counts” as government help, and what they “earned.” Sort of like the Tea Party folks with “Get government’s hands off my Medicare!” signs.
That’s his “use” umbrella.
He has a collection of several hundred diamond-encrusted limited edition ones that he doesn’t use in order to keep them “mint.”
The not-rich are supposed to aspire to be like the rich and entitled, whom they admire deeply, by working really really hard. That is the fiction the rich and entitled have sold them. If you slave away for 18 hours a day, eventually you will earn your very own umbrella.
A while back, the Daily Show played a clip of some celebrity on Fox News saying “I’ve been on food stamps. I’ve been on welfare. Did anyone help me out? No!”
I think it’s part of a tendency towards “othering” people on welfare, probably rooted in the welfare queen stereotype/myth. They’re saying “yeah, I’ve been on welfare, but I’m not one of those people.“
busterggi: Investing in the future is even worse than socialism.
MJP, that was Craig T. Nelson.
“I just can’t fathom how someone who has taken advantage of government programs and come out ahead (he was homeless at one point in time) can buy into that nonsense.”
It seems to me that there is this childish notion of morality at play. Good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people. An amoral universe is just too scary or complex.
Had only the fellow in the derby spent more time listening to The Hollies, he could have made this situation into a beautiful romance.
I know the cartoon was just metaphor, or analogy, or figuratively metaphorical (H/T Author) but….sharing a brolly does result in a certain amount of unavoidable body-contact, so if the chap with the brolly had just said that he doesn’t feel comfortable having strangers invading his personal space, there wouldn’t be a problem.
@25, 26,
Traditional umbrella sharing is between one man and one woman. Allowing two men to share an umbrella would be a threat to the institution of umbrella sharing.
Reminds me of that classic quote about George W. Bush: “Born on third base and thought he had hit a home run”.
Actually, the quote was, “Born on third base and thought he had hit a triple”, which makes a bit more sense. According to the link below, 1st by Barry Switzer, then by Jim Hightower about GWB.
http://www.twofeetthick.com/2004/09/who-first-said-born-on-third-thinks-he-got-a-triple/