[Lounge #423]


This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Classic mother and children on display today.

Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread


  1. ImaginesABeach says

    Remember back in April, I said life was settling down and I was back? I was wrong.

  2. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    well, it’s good to see you anyhow! Hope it’s good busy-ness.

  3. cicely says

    *hugs* for Cerberus.

    I dunno, brains, man, what the fuck, right?

    Ya got that right.


    Remember back in April, I said life was settling down and I was back? I was wrong.

    *preparing dump-truck-load of hugs*
    Do you want to talk about it?

  4. says

    Hi, everyone! I’m not around very much but wanted to check in and say hello and Happy Solstice. We’ve had some changes, some good, some bad but on the whole positive. Making plans for the summer.

    We have enjoyed a very cool spring while the parts of Alberta are seeing floods like they haven’t seen since 1932. Part of global weather destabilization, I’m sure.

    Hi, ImaginesABeach!

  5. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Hi, Imagines a Beach.

    Hi, Markita.

    Good night’s sleep last night. No nightmares.

    Had a good day off. It was very hot, though.

    Grilled some lime and tequila chicken, some red peppers and some onions and had it with corn bread.

    One of my elderly neighbor’s friends is almost 101 years old. A WWII veteran. Worked in factories until he was 70. His food stamps just got cut from $110 per month to zero. Nothing.

    Why the FUCK are we so hell-bent on starving the elderly, the working poor, and children so that we can preserve huge fucking tax breaks for the super rich who already have more money than they know what to do with?

  6. says

    Wait…a hundred year old veteran got his benefits cut? Why?

    Shouldn’t this be news?

    Unless it’s because he won a zillion dollars in the lottery or something.

  7. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Wait…a hundred year old veteran got his benefits cut? Why?

    Shouldn’t this be news?

    Unless it’s because he won a zillion dollars in the lottery or something.

    He was working poor, union factory worker, his whole life. And his benefits got cut.

    I wonder if he would be amenable to talking to a reporter?

  8. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Sorry, didn’t answer your question.

    His food stamps were cut because we need to give more money to the rich.

  9. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    His food stamps were cut because we need to give more money to the rich.

    *considers chewing barbed wire…but only if up the ass of a rethuglican “public servant*, and yanking on it is required…*

  10. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Og, I agree, that sounds seriously messed up. :-/

    *adds fluffy hugs to teh bin*

    Anyone got some spare grog? I could use a bit tonight. My mid-year review is tomorrow, and my management seems to get thrills out of making me feel like complete and utter shit. My find-a-new-job quest has failed rather miserably so far, so I’m stuck there for the forseeable future.

  11. ImaginesABeach says

    cicely et. al. – It’s nothing exciting. I’m my department’s go-to person for work-out-of-class assignments. So last August, I was given one of these assignments – getting a new medical review agent all ready to take over from our old medical review agent. And since a medical review agent is responsible for prior authorizing services for our Medicaid recipients, and if it doesn’t go well, people’s medical care is delayed, it has been really important to get it done right. So work has been exceedingly busy, including overtime. And at the end of the day, I’ve been exhausted. Turns out, I haven’t been getting enough sleep because I have sleep apnea. But the sleep apnea is being treated, and the work is finally slowing down.

    What have I missed?

  12. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    I’m hot and bored. ENTERTAIN ME

    Sets dinner in front of the Redhead. Gets a pie in the face (or rather, I want to finish this move).

  13. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, need take typing class over, move in #15 is movIe

  14. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Sets dinner in front of the Redhead. Gets a pie in the face (or rather, I want to finish this move)

    Wow, Nerd. You play an interesting version of chess.

  15. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Man, find a newspaper that can trumpet this. What the hell?

    He’s a very shy, very reticent, very quiet and introverted conflict-averse person. Wife and I are going to try to find out if he would be willing to talk with a reporter but, yeah, this is the kind of story that needs to be spread far and wide to show us stupid Americans that these cuts are hurting real people, some of them people who put their lives on the line to protect those rich asswipes.

  16. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says


    If it works for both of you, that is great. I know a couple of people who work in insurance, including one who works with claimants to find ways to get them the care they need. An important job.

  17. says


    Why the FUCK are we so hell-bent on starving the elderly, the working poor, and children so that we can preserve huge fucking tax breaks for the super rich who already have more money than they know what to do with?

    Because that way they’ll have to go to a church to beg for charity, and they’ll have t o toe the curch line to get it, and the church members can feel all close to heir invisible friend because they chose to give him a penny or two.
    Welcome back
    So long as it’s working for y’all, that’s great.

  18. ImaginesABeach says

    It would be interesting to see people’s reactions. Do the OMG he’s a veteran folks squawk louder than the OMG welfare leach people?

  19. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    ecause that way they’ll have to go to a church to beg for charity

    Yeah. Amazing how effectively the rich have co-opted the idea of faith-based charity.

    Do the OMG he’s a veteran folks squawk louder than the OMG welfare leach people?

    Depends. Which OMG would cost more money? Would justify raising taxes?

  20. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Wow, Nerd. You play an interesting version of chess.

    Very similar to Calvin Ball. Rules change with her whims….she’s home, which is the main thing.

  21. JohnnieCanuck says

    Anyone interested in getting some funds together to help out Ogvorbis’ neighbour’s friend? You set it up, I’ll contribute his first month’s worth. Maybe through an existing atheist charity?

    We don’t necessarily need to put his name out there with reporters and such, just publicise his situation.

  22. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says


    Sorry, I’d love to help but you’re not acting stupid or contagious.


    Good to see you back, and even better to hear that things are working out for you and Boss Nurse.


    Fucking hell. Just fucking hell. Vet or not, cutting foodstamps to someone that old is evil.

  23. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says


    That’s not a bad idea. I’ll call the local paper(s) tomorrow and talk to a reporter and try to find out if there is a way to do this anonymously. Which would be difficult. Not sure now.

    Unfortunately, Wife and I both have a summer cold right now so between heat and meds, neither one of us has a whole lot of imagination right now.

    Heading off to bed.

    G’night, all.

    And sorry about that, Nerd, I was trying for humour (intent is not magic, I know). I am glad the Redhead is home even with the challenges. Your love and caring is inspiring.

  24. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    And sorry about that, Nerd, I was trying for humour (intent is not magic, I know).

    I know. Don’t apologize. I thought I was agreeing with you. I try to keep my problems private, but every now and then something slips out. Let’s just say Mel Brooks nailed it.*checks time, oops, need to start the bedtime ritual…*

  25. cicely says

    The mint plants have been…planted.
    They appear to suspect nothing.
    But damn, I’m dead-tired.

    I wonder if he would be amenable to talking to a reporter?

    I wonder if a “reporter” would follow it up, if given a tip? No sex, no violence….

    How fairs the DarkSpawn?

    Rawnaeris, best of luck with your review.
    I have no grog; will you accept *chocolate* instead?

    ImaginesABeach: Delighted to hear that it’s nothing dire.
    Just-’cause *hugs*

    iJoe: At least you aren’t in the completely unsatisfactory housing situation you were “enjoying” previous to the move.
    Grooviness is icing.

    Hurrah for the Redhead being home!

  26. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I wonder if a “reporter” would follow it up, if given a tip? No sex, no violence….

    No sex, and society has been brainwashed not to recognize what is being done here as “violence,” instead being trained to reserve the term for the subtypes which can be effectively directed by the poor against the rich.

  27. bad Jim says

    Is it okay to laugh at David Brooks for revealing his ignorance of the Bible in today’s column commending the value of religion? Brad DeLong draws our attention to this:

    In Corinthians, Jesus tells the crowds…

    As many of us godless heathens know, the letters to the Corinthians were written by Paul.

    Worse, Brooks confuses the Torah (the first five books of the bible, otherwise known as the Pentateuch) with the rest of the Old Testament. We can agree with Brooks that general ignorance of Christianity is lamentable … and funny as hell.

  28. Dr Pepper says

    We have plenty of “competing status hierarchies” today. In fact we have more than ever, plus more freedom to choose among them.

  29. chigau (aaarrgh) says

    *hugs* and *rum*
    I’m reading but participating using my new device is [whinyvoice] hard [/whinyvoice]

  30. says

    *opens a crate of assorted comfies*

    Help yourselves, they’re free!


    Nerd of Redhead

    Yep. Mel Brooks nailed it.

    And now I wanna watch Blazing Saddles again. Or Spaceballs. Or Robin Hood. Hell, I’ll even settle for Dracula Dead and Loving It!

  31. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Is having a visceral, emotional reaction to authoritarianism and servility actually a negative trait?

  32. Pteryxx says

    Still threadrupt… *anklehugs* and greets on offer.

    Abortion bill news out of Texas… after some 700 citizens filibustered the House all day Sunday, the Republicans shut down testimony and forced their anti-abortion omnibus to a vote. However, the vote came around 3 AM; word is that the “citizens’ filibuster” delayed the House vote for so long that the Senate now has a reasonable chance of filibustering their vote on Tuesday and keeping the omnibus off Rick Perry’s desk.


    Maddow Blog ‏@MaddowBlog 15h

    Texas Dems to abortion-bill protesters: You bought us 12 hours, filibuster now possible http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/24/19117053-in-texas-rape-kits-debate-the-sound-of-abortion-politics?lite … #BlueDots

    Tomorrow Texas protesters will be trying to fill the Capital building again in support of a likely Democratic filibuster lasting from 9 AM until the special session ends at midnight. They’re also planning a Twitter storm on the hashtag #SB5 (see also #txlege and of all things, #feministarmy – yes a Republican has already called them feminazis.)

    Twitter storm directions

    Some of the suggested references:

    An Open Letter to Anyone Ready to Write Off Texas: Don’t, Because it’s *Your* Future at Stake (RHRealityCheck)

    By Stifling Debate, Texas House Passes Strict Anti-Abortion Bill (Texas Observer)

    Wendy Davis stands between Texas women and abortion ban (Daily Kos)

    And this is what a filibuster means in Texas…

    The tactics impose stringent physical demands, requiring lawmakers to stay in place without leaning on their desks and to talk or read for hours. They are forbidden to leave for bathroom breaks and often rely on so-called “astronaut packs” to dispose of human waste.

    (cited in the DailyKos article above)

  33. Pteryxx says

    adding to my last – Texas Senator Wendy Davis has put out a call for testimony she can read on the Senate floor. If y’all have written comments or blog posts or have articles to pass along or personal stories to share, which will become part of the public record of this session, please consider sending them. She’s going to need 13 hours’ worth of material.


    Wendy Davis Wendy Davis ‏@WendyDavisTexas

    Stand with me tomorrow, and share your story with me so I can tell it from the Senate floor. http://bit.ly/120aIVM #SB5 #txlege

  34. says

    Very nice to see you round these parts again.
    I wonder where that support for our troops went to. Thats a damn travesty that his food stamps were cut.
    I want to follow the trial, but work keeps me juuuust busy enough to only get snippets. I found it odd that the defense began with a joke.
    I really hope Zimmerman receives a guilty verdict. Not just because he instigated the situation that led to Trayvon’s death (making him responsible in my eyes), but because I hope this case will help to one day bring down the Stand Your Ground laws in various states. Nothing good has come from them.
    Hell Alaska’s governor just signed SYG into law…at shooting ranges (I’d link, but my phone has been acting up, failing to communicate with the server–whatever that means–which results in my not being able to pull up certain sites…ThinkProgress being one of them).
    Great idea.
    You could always engage joey over in the Dome. That will cure that boredom fast.

  35. meganmacsee says

    Hi, I’m newish here. Trying to keep abreast of the sexism and misogyny in the sleptic-atheist movement. Visited the Slime Pit out of curiosity. It left me with a gaping hole of existential despair at the heart of my being. I literally couldn’t get any mental purchase on the discussions because of the acrid smell of hate.

    I’ve pretty much given up on Dawkins, the CFI and JREF because I don’t have the Marie Strumpell spoons to deal with the constant sense of waiting for the next sexism/misogyny bomb to go off. I was wondering, apart from Skepchick and Freethought Blogs and as far as I can tell Bad Astronomy, are there any skeptic-science-atheist sites worth the energy?

  36. birgerjohansson says


    If he is shy, maybe you (or someone more familiar to him) could help him talk into a camera and then you try to make the video go viral…
    I understand he is shy, at that age he will not have many regular visitors. But if you can help him get his plight out there in the media, it would (probably) shame the authorities into reconsidering.

    — — — — — — — —
    Schadenfreude! Umeå has had a bus strike for a week, but now the strike is extended to many other places.

    “Unions expand bus strike across Sweden” http://www.thelocal.se/48650/20130624/
    BTW I support them. They have crappy working conditions.

  37. meganmacsee says

    Morning Portia. rq. I’ll have a look at the Feminist Hivemind. Hoping it’s an ironic name.

  38. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Bad Portia.

    I know what you mean.

    I went out to put the last of the trash by the kerb and a mid-1970s 911 came down my one-way street. Going the wrong direction. Bad Porsche.

    Okay, no, I don’t know what you mean, but it was a good opening for a lame joke, right?

    Wife and I are continuing to discuss the 101-year-old veteran. Not sure how we will try to help (longterm).

  39. rq says

    Good joke. :D
    Especially since our Portia was nowhere near a kerb, a street, or a road, never mind going the wrong way. ;)
    (It’s ok, Portia, I’m sure you’ll do a double-run tomorrow… Right?)

  40. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I’m pretty sure “ironic” is a good word for it :) From the sounds of your preferences, you’ll like it.

    Your Portia/Porsche jokes always put a smile on my face.

  41. John Morales says

    Hey, meganmacsee.

    One suggestion: you might want to check out PZ’s blogroll on the sidebar.

    (Their presence here is tacit endorsement by him)

  42. meganmacsee says

    Hi John Morales,

    I noticed that just the other day and I’ve been slowly working my way through them. It’s great. Seem to be almost over my addiction to mainstream media, replacing it with reading bloggers.

  43. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says


    When I’m in the mood, I do feel the urge to run more than my running program recommends. But I don’t because the beginning runner blogs and whatnot all say “Don’t burn yourself out!” So I refrain. :)

    This morning I have a headache. I’m thinking it will go away. All of my recent ones have before they grew too big. Fingers crossed.

  44. rq says

    I… don’t know what to say. News these days?

    I would have taken that fugitive in, had he come to my backyard. … They don’t eat cats, do they?

  45. dianne says

    Good morning, thread.

    Ogvorbis: Some days I think the government is just trying to be the most ridiculous caricature of an evil capitalist it can be. Denying food to a 100 year old vet? That’s just ridiculous. It’s not like his food stamps cost enough to even come onto the radar of one of these millionaires who need more money.

    iJoe: It’s good to have competent and sane people doing insurance claims so BossNurse shouldn’t feel any guilt about not doing “real” nursing.

    I’ll also just drop some hugs here in case anyone is in need of one.

  46. dianne says

    I’ll have a look at the Feminist Hivemind. Hoping it’s an ironic name.

    Oh, no. The name is meant in complete seriousness. (Said in completely serious tone with earnest look on face. Yep.)

  47. rq says

    The red ones, too?
    Dammit, I only have the one stick of ‘bamboo’ (the decorative stuff that is always explained as not-real bamboo).
    I guess it’s best he found his way back to the zoo.

  48. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Why do people think it’s ever reasonable to say things like this???

    Feel free to join me in taking Candace Lopez down.

  49. meganmacsee says

    diane. I’m glad, irony when I’m plugging in to the hive just gets so confusing. Messes with my feminazi assimilation nanites something terrible.

  50. rq says

    Horde Signal! Horde Signal!
    I just need your Vote, via Twitter or Facebook.
    As I may or may not have mentioned previously, my choir is planning a trip to Canada in the summer of next year, for the Canadian Latvian Song and Dance Festival (program here, that’s us on July 4th). So, one of the local breweries here (Cēsu alus, no comments) is running a competition for local groups of singers/dancers to win a rather large sum of money, which we, the choir, would put towards our trip next year – either for plane tickets, or for sight-seeing in Canada (since that costs money, too, and for the vast majority of choir members, this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to get to North America).
    So, please, if you have a Twitter or Facebook account, go here and vote (click on ‘Balsot’), from each account, every day (I’ll be putting out reminders until you’re all sick of me). Please. This would mean a lot to me and my fellow choir members, as it would reduce a lot of the stress and financial worry currently causing doubts in some members.
    If anyone doubts our skill, I can re-post some of our music – and I’ll (hopefully) have new music/video after this weekend (amateur choir finals on the 29th).

  51. dianne says

    irony when I’m plugging in to the hive just gets so confusing.

    How fortunate that no one here would ever consider using it.

  52. WharGarbl says

    Supreme Court just struck down Section 5 of Voting Rights Act.
    Okay, they “only” struck down the preclearance map, and the congress can still draw a new one. But given the current situation… not frigging likely.

  53. says

    Moment of Mormon Madness: LDS church leaders have always been known to ignore normal boundaries when getting all up in the business of the sheeple, but a recent method of making this intrusion into personal lives more formal, more permanent (record keeping), and more known throughout each Ward has emerged.

    They have a new form to fill out and discuss that pertains to every new member of the mormon church, and to every “returning member.” That last may likely apply to ex-mormons they intend to love-bomb or otherwise pressure into returning.

    Excerpt from the form:

    The bishop regularly review this form in ward council meetings to discuss the progress of each new or returning member. The ward council uses the form to plan specific ways to teach and strengthen new members from the time of their baptism and confirmation until they receive the temple endowment. The ward council also uses portions of this form in planning how to teach and strengthen returning members.

    If you think they are going to discuss whether or not you showed up to clean the ward toilets on Saturday, you are right.

    Of course, the first item on the “Date completed” list is tithing.

    They’re going to do this every month. The form has a bar code. That’s handy. Cult.

    Ex-mormons discussing the form noted that, due to overmuch past experience, the word “strengthening” always gives them the shivers and/or triggers post-traumatic stress syndrome.

  54. says

    Pteryxx provided a good summary of the anti-abortion legislative shenanigans @43. Here’s some more anti-abortion news.

    “Pregnancy Clinic” or “Pregnancy Center” is what the sign says on the outside of most anti-abortion centers. These centers are not staffed with medical professionals. They attempt to fool women seeking an abortion into walking into their office instead of into a Planned Parenthood clinic, for example.

    Finally, someone videotaped the anti-abortion staffers providing false information, medically inaccurate information: http://www.salon.com/2013/06/25/caught_on_tape_crisis_pregnancy_centers_false_dangerous_advice/

  55. says

    They eat bamboo.

    Mostly, although they supplement it with roots, berries, rodents, fish, etc. They’re not near big enough to look at a cat as food, though.
    I think I’ve voted.

  56. says

    Sex education triggers bad memories for Republican doofus Louie Gohmert. It reminds him of 1970s era Soviet Union culture, for one thing.

    Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, decried sex-ex programs in schools because, he said, “actually mankind has existed for a pretty long time without anyone ever having to give a sex-ed lesson to anybody. And now we feel like, oh gosh, people are too stupid unless we force them to sit and listen to instructions.”

    He continued that “there is a natural law that parents should be involved in education,” but this “reminds me so much of the summer that I was an exchange student in the Soviet Union back in the Seventies and I was shocked when they were saying ‘no, the children don’t belong to parents, they belong to the state.’ And if any parent said anything in front of their children negative about the wonderful Soviet Union, then we will take their children away and give them to somebody more deserving.”

    I am reminded of the fact that sex education protects children and teens from parents like Louie Gohmert.
    Salon link.
    Right Wing Watch link.

  57. Pteryxx says

    “Pregnancy Clinic” or “Pregnancy Center” is what the sign says on the outside of most anti-abortion centers. These centers are not staffed with medical professionals. They attempt to fool women seeking an abortion into walking into their office instead of into a Planned Parenthood clinic, for example.

    The fake clinics take taxpayer funding, too. Here in Texas, some of the bills passed to defund Planned Parenthood are redistributing that money to misinformation-peddling, often religious, Crisis Pregnancy Centers instead.


    With the help of Texas lawmakers, crisis pregnancy centers in the state are serving a growing number of women. Since 2005, the state health department, at the direction of the Texas Legislature, has given public money to centers to steer 72,000 women like Sadie to choose childbirth over abortion. (The state’s contract with the centers declares that counselors may discuss abortion only “in the context of promoting childbirth.”) The cash to bankroll the centers was diverted from the state family planning budget—money that had been used to provide Texas’ poorest women with birth control and wellness exams. The state is also directing women toward crisis pregnancy centers in other ways. A new law requires that abortion clinics provide patients with a list of crisis pregnancy centers at least 24 hours before an abortion can be performed. And callers to Texas’ state-funded 2-1-1 helpline seeking information about pre-abortion counseling will find crisis pregnancy centers included on the list.

    Despite all the government support, the state doesn’t require such centers to promote medically accurate information about sexual health. Crisis pregnancy centers promote strict abstinence outside of marriage and don’t distribute birth control. And unlike family-planning clinics, they aren’t licensed or inspected by the state.

    Wendy Davis started her filibuster of the Texas Senate at 11:18 am US Central time.

    Photo via Twitter

    Texas Tribune liveblog

    Live on Youtube via Texas Tribune

    11:59 a.m. by Becca Aaronson

    State Sen. Wendy Davis, D-Fort Worth, must continue talking for 12 more hours to filibuster Senate Bill 5.

    After describing how each bill filed during the regular session failed — many because a group of Democratic senators blocked the bills from coming up for consideration in the upper chamber — she launched into criticism of specific measures in Senate Bill 5.

    “The real aim of this bill is not to make women safer, but to force the closure of multiple facilities across the state of Texas,” said Davis, “without a single care or concern for the women whose lives will be impacted by that decision. Not a single care or concern.”

    She is currently reading letters from physicians describing why they are opposed to the measures in the bill.

  58. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Your Portia/Porsche jokes always put a smile on my face.

    Find something you’re good at and stick with it. Bad jokes are my (Kia) Forte.

    That’s just ridiculous. It’s not like his food stamps cost enough to even come onto the radar of one of these millionaires who need more money.

    Well, yeah, but if we feed everyone who needs help, some of those millionaires might see their disposable income drop from $5,783,415.00 to only $5,782,918.00. And that would make the magic hand of the free market sad.

    They eat bamboo.

    They consume exploding ghosts?

    (Like I said (er, wrote?) earlier, I play to my strength_

  59. Pteryxx says

    Texas filibuster: Wendy Davis now reading the testimonies of 31 citizens who were not allowed to speak before the House on Thursday. First up, the story of someone’s father who was an abortion provider. Via Secular Texas:

    SecularTexas ‏@seculartexas 5m

    @WendyDavisTexas will now read 31 silenced public testimonies. #Txlege #sb5 #feministarmy

    SecularTexas ‏@seculartexas 2m

    Amy’s testimony: her dad was abortion doc who helped low income families receive care. Helped girls as young as 12. #Txlege #sb5

    SecularTexas ‏@seculartexas now

    Amy’s testimony: her father wore kevlar vest, lived in gated community, & had FBI escort in order to provide care #Txlege #sb5 #feministarmy

  60. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    And, apparently, punctuation is not one of my strengths. If anyone sees a ‘)’ wandering around on its own, please stick it in the appropriate location.

    (Damn. ‘)’ is banana shaped. Does that mean a human hand is the appropriate location?)

  61. silomowbray, sans frottage pour la douche says

    Help requested from The Horde!

    My son is turn 7 and I would like to hand him a book on evolution written for kids. He, like so many children, loves dinosaurs, and he spends a lot of time outside looking at bees and flowers and weird insects so I’m hoping his natural curiosity will draw him into wanting to understand how our natural world came to be.

    Does anyone have any recommendations? I did the requisite Googling, but I much more trust the feedback from the hivemind here than I do Amazon rankings and the like.

    Thanks all!

  62. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Og, I’ll take that banana off your hands. *nomnomom*

    Thanks for the hugs and chocolate folks. My review went about as expected. Instead of you know, constructive criticism, they opted for nailing me to the wall for stuff I should have been getting complements on.

    I did get one legit complement at least. So technically that means this one went better than the last 2.

    *sigh* I’m gonna take some of those free hugs lying about.

  63. mildlymagnificent says

    I would have taken that fugitive in, had he come to my backyard. … They don’t eat cats, do they?

    They don’t need to eat cats and you might not be too happy about taking one in. One great disappointment for my mother attending a meeting with a guest speaker who was a volunteer at the zoo. This person talked about red pandas a bit, mainly because someone asked about these cute looking critters.

    Start with the zoo’s web page description which includes the distinctly ambivalent “Some of our pandas are friendlier with the keepers than others.” According to the volunteer they’re nasty and very hard to deal with. None of the volunteers like them very much. I doubt they’d be much fun in a backyard.

  64. says

    Hello hello hello!

    How fairs the DarkSpawn?

    She’s really good. And really big! And getting really mobile!

    She rolled herself from the living room to the kitchen today– which included maneuvering around a couch and a standing fan. She tries to crawl, but she just can’t coordinate all of her limbs yet, so she just flips herself over ’til she gets where she needs to go.

  65. says

    My local public radio station, HPR, has a weekly show in which a local doc covers various medical topics. The doc is very open about her own training, practice, and beliefs which are grounded in western evidence based medicine. This week her topic was essential oils, which she saw some use in but was outside her area so she had a guest to discuss it. Immediately this guest went off on bio-energies, how the flu has a frequency of 57 mhz, while cancer is 25 mhz. Wtf? She cited a Bruce Lipton as her source for this. Anyone ever come across this guy before? Seems he packages his woo in somewhat legitimate science.

  66. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    She tries to crawl, but she just can’t coordinate all of her limbs yet, so she just flips herself over ’til she gets where she needs to go.

    The flopping stage is amusing but it doesn’t last long. In a few (relative time) weeks she’ll be asking for the keys to the car.

  67. rq says

    Oh, his homepage. Anyone who seriously uses phrases like “awakening into a higher consciousness” is… weeelllll, not particularly trustworthy!

  68. rq says

    That’s so true. Like a month or two ago, we thought Youngest would never learn to walk.
    He is now practically running.

  69. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    She’s already there. We had to buy those fake plastic keys for her. XD

    If you ever give her your real keys to play with, say, on a train ride? Close the window first.

  70. rq says

    They can take it up with Bruce Lipton… on the quantum level! Mwahahahaaa!

  71. says

    That’s exactly why she has several sets of her own. The one thing that I get REALLY REALLY paranoid about is losing my keys. Like, I would rather lose my wallet and my shoes and have my car towed than lose my keys.

    See also: Freakouts when I lock myself out of the apartment.

  72. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    See also: Freakouts when I lock myself out of the apartment.

    We locked ourselves out of the house a couple two three times. Luckily, it was when Girl was small enough that we could slide her into the basement through a vent.

  73. dianne says

    If you ever give her your real keys to play with, say, on a train ride? Close the window first.

    Says the voice of experience?

  74. says

    Yeah, last time I did it, I had gone to the supermarket† with Darkling. She was two months old and it was below zero outside. NOT FUN.

    Luckily, my downstairs neighbors were home and could let me in.

    †I keep my car keys separate from everything else.

  75. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Says the voice of experience?

    Watched it happen. At milepost 129. And I knew right where to tell the LEO to look for them. Not my keys, not my spawn.

    Yeah, last time I did it, I had gone to the supermarket† with Darkling. She was two months old and it was below zero outside.

    On the bright side, your ice cream and frozen peas didn’t melt, right?

  76. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Livestream of Sen. Davis’ filibuster: http://www.texastribune.org/

    Right now an old white dude is asking her questions and making arguments with her. I hope someone is putting a tack on his chair while he’s on his feet.

  77. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    tw rape, misogyny


    “…some of that testimony was more anecdotal than expert.”

    – Douchey Senator who is arguing with Wendy Davis.

    Our experiences are not enough. Our horror stories of rape and miscarriage and terror are not enough to show the human impact of abortion restrictions.

    And now he’s just LYING.

  78. Menyambal --- son of a son of a bachelor says

    Alexandra, good to see you here. (I’ve been over on the Space Ape/Aquatic Ape thread, mostly, lately.)

    I have my little ring of keys in my back pocket, AND singles of my house and car keys in my front pocket, at all times. I get really annoyed with car rental companies that hand over duplicate keys fastened together so they can’t be carried separately—one rental company handed over ALL the keys they had for their car, in one big bundle, four ignition keys, two fobs and two trunk keys, all cabled together in one unwieldy mass, and cheerfully told me that was how they always did it.

  79. says

    Thanks for the updates on the filibuster by Wendy Davis. She really knows how to take on those Texas good ole misogynist politicians.

    Go Wendy.

  80. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Yeah, he asked “Are you aware that there are abortions being done past the point of viability in this state for no other reason than that they are not wanted?”

    First, fuck you.
    Second, I don’t need another reason to get something out of my body I don’t want there.
    Third, that’s just a fucking lie.

    Sen. Davis told him it’s like 0.5% of late-term abortions that are purely elective. Boom, statistics, asshole.

  81. says

    BTW, Pteryxx, I knew those Pregnancy Crisis Centers received public money. That makes me spitting mad. The religiously-based, abstinence-only, medically-inacurrate, anti-abortion flea brains are given funds stripped from Planned Parenthood, as you noted.

    It’s a proven way to punish women in the name of god, and to keep women subservient under the aegis of conservative lawmakers. There was even one female Texas lawmaker, Republican of course, who thought that Texas abortion bills don’t require an exemption for rape victims because rape kits that hospitals use “clean her out.” So much ignorance. So little time.

  82. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    One of them just used the phrase “culture of death.”

    (Sorry for the string of comments, I’m just frustrated listening to this).

  83. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    BTW, Pteryxx, I knew those Pregnancy Crisis Centers received public money. That makes me spitting mad. The religiously-based, abstinence-only, medically-inacurrate, anti-abortion flea brains are given funds stripped from Planned Parenthood, as you noted.

    Fucking disgusting.

  84. says

    Thanks! It’s good to be here and way easier to drop a comment or two now that the little one is taking regular naps.

    Yeah, I keep all of my keys separate– car keys, house keys, and work keys (before I quit) all have their own rings. That way if I lose one, I’m not totally fucked.

  85. says

    (Sorry for the string of comments, I’m just frustrated listening to this).

    Don’t apologize. We need your series of comments. Keep on keepin’ on.

  86. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Ok, then, I will ^_^

    There’s a Dem who says he’s pro-life, went on a long heartfelt tirade about “speaking for the unborn” and how his Roman Catholic faith requires his speaking up. Sen. Davis dealt with him really gently, (though she has been exceedingly patient with all of them) and said he had a compassionate heart and related to his struggle to increase food assistance for children. All he made was an emotional appeal, so she met his tone, it was rhetorically interesting.

    She just read a short letter saying that a Christian is praying for her.

    This next letter says that an abortion is a difficult decision “forever remembered.” I don’t like that sort of rhetoric but the next sentence says “Why do men think they can make this personal decision?”

  87. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Pteryxx: That’s AWESOME.

    Oh, the other thing she said to the Catholic Democrat was that she sees him on the floor reading his bible on his ipad…um, that doesn’t sound like legislating. I’m reminded of “if you have time to lean, you have time to clean.” ..if you have time to read yer bible, you have time to legislate, Senator.

  88. cicely says

    Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal

    Welcome, meganmacsee.

    Ogvorbis, might the local VFW be interested/able to signal-boost the veteran’s plight?

    We had to buy those fake plastic keys for her.

    A ruse that will not work for long.
    Time to start collecting up those odd keys that you no longer know what they go to.

  89. says

    Steve Benen, writing for The Maddow Blog, just gave voice to something that has been bothering me since I read the Supreme Court decision today. Nice to know that others are noticing this flaw in Chief Justice Roberts’ opinion.

    …I’m not an attorney, so I’ll concede my background is limited, but in the rulings I’ve read striking down federal laws, there’s some kind of explanation as to the part of the Constitution the law ostensibly contradicts. A statute violates the First Amendment, or the Commerce Clause, or the Due Process clause, etc., and is therefore unlawful.

    So on what grounds, exactly, did the court find Sec. 4 of the VRA unconstitutional? I have no idea.

    Assuming I’d missed something important, I asked the Constitutional Accountability Center’s David Gans to help me out. He told me:

    Your question highlights a fundamental flaw in Chief Justice Roberts’ majority opinion in Shelby County v. Holder. The Court strikes down a core provision of the Voting Rights Act as unconstitutional without ever explaining what provision of the Constitution commands this result. Chief Justice Roberts’ opinion for the conservative majority argued that the Voting Rights Act provision was inconsistent with the ‘letter and spirit of the Constitution,’ but he never really explained why.

    His majority opinion emphasized that the Voting Rights Act diminished the sovereignty of states, ignoring that Fifteenth Amendment expressly gives to Congress broad power to prevent all forms of racial discrimination in voting by the states. As Justice Ginsburg’s powerful dissent demonstrates, the Court’s opinion cannot be squared with the text, history, and meaning of the Fifteenth Amendment.”…

  90. Pteryxx says

    Texas filibuster news: Sen. Wendy Davis has said she’s running out of letters, with 7 hours left to go. Please contribute statements to be read on the floor NOW. They don’t have to be personal stories, they can be statements, information, whatever… for instance, we haven’t heard much about Crisis Pregnancy Centers, or how rare late-term abortions actually are (1.1% after 21 weeks, IIRC.) I’ve seen a request to address how rapists can sue for visitation rights when a woman’s forced to bear their child. Seven hours’ worth of material, 500 words at a time.


  91. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Holy shit, Lynna, I’ve been wondering the same thing about the VRA decision all day. I was too time-pressed to look into it and too embarrassed to ask the question aloud (what with being a lawyer ^_^)

  92. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I submitted filibuster material to the effect that my state-funded birth control has prevented the need for an abortion.

  93. birgerjohansson says

    Three planets in habitable zone of nearby star (w/ video) http://phys.org/news/2013-06-planets-habitable-zone-nearby-star.html It is only 22 light years away, which makes the system part of the 100 closest stars.

    Excited, but cold: Scientists unveil the secret of a reaction for prebiotic synthesis of organic matter http://phys.org/news/2013-06-cold-scientists-unveil-secret-reaction.html Taking a bit of the mystery out of the origin of life.

    High-octane bacteria could ease pain at the pump: Engineered E. coli mass-produce key precursor to potent biofuel http://phys.org/news/2013-06-high-octane-bacteria-ease-pain-coli.html

  94. says

    All you senior citizen “Takers” out there ripping off the government and taking money out of the deserving hands of the Mitt Romneys of the world, listen up. We have the statistics. We will get you.

    Oh, wait. There is a vanishingly small number of you to get, because, guess what, the Social Security Administration has a 99.996% accuracy rate for paying benefits to the right people. Oh dear, this is going to put a rather large hole in the argument that government run programs are less efficient, more scam-prone than programs turned over to private enterprise. Like prisons.

    Yeah, right.

    Here’s how you spin the story, spin the stats, if you are a conservative news organization:

    Slate link.

    “Social Security Kept Paying Benefits to 1,546 Deceased” reads Damian Paletta’s Wall Street Journal headline, revealing that “the agency improperly paid $31 million in benefits” to these dead people.

    And here’s how you report the story, interpret the stats, if you are a journalist with a functioning brain:

    But, as Nicholas Beaudrot writes, this is an astonishingly low error ratio for an agency that makes $750 billion in payments per year. That’s especially true because the Social Security Administration has good reasons for biasing itself against erroneously cutting people off of their benefits. Paying money to 1,546 people who are actually dead is bad. Stopping payments to 1,546 people who are actually alive and winding up with them dying homeless when they can’t pay the rent would be worse.

    In other words—good job, Social Security Administration!

  95. Pteryxx says

    . . .

    The Texas senate is apparently trying to force Davis out of her filibuster by policing her conduct and telling her various testimony is off-topic. If she receives three official “warnings” she can be removed from the floor. Word is she can’t even rest a hand on her desk because “leaning” upon it would be grounds for a warning.


    ChristineIAm ‏@ChristineIAm 18m

    2nd “warning”-“Discussing #abortion during abortion ban bills is NOT germain . #BS #TXLege
    Retweeted by SecularTexas


    Katy Thompson ‏@ktthulu 15m

    Now Watson has been warned, Davis once. Germaineness stickling. Davis only warned once, at 3 warnings will be put to vote. #TXLege #SB5
    Retweeted by SecularTexas

    Comment from a livestream viewer at Shakes:

    10 minutes ago

    This is amazing to watch. What a courageous woman.

    I noticed just now one of the men (of course) sitting behind her leaning forward eagerly, when she was checking a piece of paper. Trying to catch her leaning on the podium. Such sad, small-minded, nasty behaviour.

  96. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Jeebus, Pteryxx, I stepped away.

    They’re going on about germane-ness again.

  97. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Another Senator is asking “Can I ask her to repeat what was germane?” He says he missed some and wants to hear it again, and slowly. Senate President said “Would you like a copy of her testimony?” Senator says “No, I am a slow learner, I need to hear it, slowly. The human element helps me learn.” Love it. Davis jumps in with “Just to be clear, I still have the floor.”

  98. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    They refuse to answer whether repeating it is germane, because it’s “hypothetical.” Fucker.

  99. cicely says

    Excited, but cold: Scientists unveil the secret of a reaction for prebiotic synthesis of organic matter

    Cool beans!

  100. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    All I could understand in this last point of order was “back brace.” Are they trying to say she’s breaking the filibuster by wearing a back brace?!

  101. Pteryxx says

    That’s Senator Ellis (from the district including Houston) asking her to repeat slowly. Tweets are saying “Now THAT is what male allyship looks like.”

  102. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Excellent point, I thought it was great.

  103. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Texas Tribune feed is getting glitchy. What’s going on?!

  104. Pteryxx says

    They’re still arguing over whether touching her back brace counts as a Point Of Order violation. Some of the twitter crowds are reporting refreshing might work for the feed,or trying another site.


    Bobby Blanchard ‏@bobbycblanchard 23s

    MT ‏@pfikac: “Back brace adjustment would violate ban on assistance by another Senate member, I’m told. #txlege #sb5”

  105. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Thanks Pteryxx. I found a new feed.

    Oemgee. The member must sit during Point of Order?

  106. Pteryxx says

    speedquoting the twitter feed:

    Mike Sacco ‏@mikesacco 17s

    good work, Sen. Zaffarini #sb5
    Claire Z Cardona Claire Z Cardona ‏@clairezcardona 18s

    Sen. Z: rule 4.06 when a member shall be called to order by a president or senator, can sit until point of order is decided? #txlege #sb5

    if I read that right, Sen Zaffarini caught that for each POO challenge, she might be allowed (or ordered) to sit until it’s resolved, giving Davis a few minutes off her feet.

  107. Pteryxx says

    more speedquoting:

    Lola ‏@OhNoitsLola 18s

    !RT “@lilithfund: and the overflow room erupts into CHEERS for Senator Zaffirini’s parliamentary inquiry. #standwithWendy #sb5 #txlege”
    View conversation
    TexEnt TexEnt ‏@the_treedweller 18s

    Pres. cautions Davis she must stand while POO is ruled on. Sen. Zaffirini notes alt. rule that may require her to sit. #sb5 #txlege

  108. Pteryxx says

    The futures of 42 clinics and some 3.25 million rural Texas women may hinge on a bunch of Republicans rules-lawyering over a woman Senator’s back brace. America, amirite?

  109. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I believe that’s what I heard from the other Senator as well, Pteryxx. Absolutely brilliant.

    and yeah…’Murka!

  110. Pteryxx says

    Senator Rodney Ellis testifying about why assistance from other Senators has historically been accepted during filibusters… apparently, citing an incident in which other legislators surrounded the one with the floor to provide a screen of privacy so he could pee in a trashcan rather than leave.

    Well, the wilder this filibuster gets, the more the Internet will spread it.

  111. Pteryxx says


    Jodi Ochstein ‏@JodiOchstein 15s

    RT @clinicescort: oh my god. Sen. Zaffirini points out the Senate rules all say “he” and therefore can’t possibly apply to Sen. Davis. #sb5


    Best summary I’ve seen so far is from @AdaMardoll’s feed: Bottom to top:

    Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 3m

    And he’s pointing out that they help MEN members during filibusters. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege @scATX
    View conversation
    Ana Mardoll Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 4m

    He put it to the body; Ellis is arguing slippery slope on diluting the filibuster tool. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege @scATX
    View conversation
    Ana Mardoll Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 4m

    Ellis is talking about a member’s right to use the tool of the filibuster. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege
    Ana Mardoll Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 5m

    Ellis is pointing out people pass ice chips to filibustering members. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege
    Ana Mardoll Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 6m

    Ellis is arguing that if you can hold a trash can for a man to take a piss, you can touch a woman’s back brace. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege
    Ana Mardoll Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 6m

    They said she can’t sit down and gave NO REASON. #SB5 #StandWithWendy #TXlege @DoKnowButchie

  112. Pteryxx says

    Texas senate voted along party lines on whether Ellis touching Davis’s back brace constituted a point of order violation and thus a second strike towards forcing her filibuster to stop.


    Katy Thompson ‏@ktthulu 21s

    Sustained as 2nd warning at this time by vote of 17-11, West inquiring on appeal the decision of the chair. #TXLege #SB5

    Shirley C ‏@ghhshirley 20s

    Howls coming from the gallery. We are in shock. Dem Senator asking for appeal process for ruling. #StandWithWendy #SB5 #txlege #WarOnWomen

    Ellis was told, “You made the mistake of being a gentleman.”


    Ana Mardoll ‏@AnaMardoll 11m

    “You made the mistake of being a gentleman, of being a colleague….The tradition of this body is to HELP ONE ANOTHER.” #SB5 #StandWithWendy

  113. Pteryxx says

    Texas Senate trying to play the off-topic card for a third strike, as livestream viewership goes up over 40K and Obama’s single tweet has over 5700 RT’s.


    Angela Herrick ‏@angelaherrick 1m

    TX GOP is grasping @ straws. Wendy is showing her knowledge of the other bills & laws connected 2 #sb5 & they’re acting like she’s off topic


    Kevin Baker ‏@deutschmarine 1m

    I make a motion to strike the word “germane” from the dictionary and vernacular. #sb5

  114. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    They just approved the third POO and stopped the filibuster.

    Gallery is chanting LET HER SPEAK

  115. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Senate President is going against the procedural rules he outlined before. He is trying to sidestep a vote on both /either the third POO or ending the filibuster. He’s being called on it, and saying he has the right to make a ruling unilaterally

  116. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    The parliamentarian must be ready to pull out her hair. The Dems are stalling hard through every procedural tactic possible.

  117. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    At this point it’s like a tag-team filibuster because the Dems are going back and forth so much. One even asked that they pause and “Check the tape” to clear up what motion was where.

  118. Pteryxx says

    Comment from Shakes –

    Sen. Van de Putte is taking up as much time as she possibly can by getting the speaker to repeat all the details of the earlier points of order that were sustained while she wasn’t present (she has said she was at her father’s funeral). She is showing such dedication to her duty by being here now and supporting Sen. Davis. YAY FOR HER.

  119. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says


    I thought she was just stalling in admirable fashion, then I realized she was using Socratic method to get him to admit the other POOs were submitted for a vote. It was impressive

  120. Pteryxx says

    Boingboing is on it though:


    Texas lawmakers still attempting to run out the clock on restrictive abortion bill, after 11-hour filibuster

    Maggie Koerth-Baker at 8:42 pm Tue, Jun 25, 2013

    Texas Senator Wendy Davis spoke for more than 11 hours straight today, attempting to filibuster a restrictive abortion bill that would, among other things, drastically reduce the number of legal abortion clinics in the state and ban abortions after 20 weeks in most cases.

    Davis’ filibuster was intended to go until midnight, when the clock runs out on the special legislative session. It ended with an hour and 35 minutes left to go after Republican legislators challenged her on several parliamentary rules — including putting on a supportive back brace and talking about a 2011 Texas law that forced women who wanted an abortion to undergo invasive vaginal ultrasounds. As of 10:28 pm, Central,, Democratic legislators were trying to make it to midnight by challenging the challenges to the filibuster.

    You can watch a live feed, read the bill itself, and follow coverage at The Texas Tribute Twitter or The Austin American-Statesman.

    Video Link: Spectators erupt in chants of “Let Her Speak” when Davis’ filibuster is blocked.

    youtube link

  121. Pteryxx says

    President of the Texas Senate wouldn’t let Zaffirini or Wendy Davis talk, but allowed Kirk Watson… who is now very slowly going over the points of procedure. 33 minutes left to go.


    10:45pm CDT: Contact who is in the Texas House Members Lounge currently:

    Shit just got real – DPS just locked the Capitol doors.

    11pm CDT: Same contact says:

    People making bail arrangements & lawyers stationed upstairs. People planning on storming rotunda/Gallery

  122. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I just discovered Captain Awkward.

    I made a point of reading through the entire archives over the last month or so.

  123. Pteryxx says

    Leticia Van de Putte: “At what point must a female senator raise her hand to be recognized over her male colleagues?”

    Applause, drowning out the attempts to roll-call.


    beckcl78 ‏@beckcl78 22s

    “At what point must a female senator raise her hand to be recognized over her male colleagues?” #effffyeah #SB5

  124. Pteryxx says

    via Shakes:

    From Austin reporter: West: Vote didn’t start until 12:01. It doesn’t count. The special session is over.

    But next twitter posting from Austin reporter is: Deuell and other GOP sens: SB5 passed 17-12

  125. Pteryxx says

    Looks like they’re clearing the gallery completely, and word is one woman’s been arrested.


    BuzzFeed News ‏@BuzzFeedNews 5m

    BREAKING: Republicans pass new restrictions expected to close almost every abortion clinic in Texas, @AP is now reporting

    (Oh sure, NOW the media covers it. *spits* )


    BuzzFeed News ‏@BuzzFeedNews 4m

    The official Senate computer says there was a vote, 17-12 to pass #SB5 – Dems say it was after midnight, @cltomlinson reports


    BuzzFeed News ‏@BuzzFeedNews 1m

    RT @TumaTime: So Dan Patrick just told us #SB5 passed 19-10. I asked if it bothered him that no one heard. He said well, the Senators heard.

  126. Pteryxx says

    But CBS News and the AP are reporting SB5 as a done deal.


    CBS News ‏@CBSNews 14m

    BREAKING NEWS: Texas Republicans pass strict new abortion curbs, overcoming long filibuster, and chaos in Senate chamber as deadline neared


    The Associated Press ‏@AP 20m

    BREAKING: Republicans pass new restrictions expected to close almost every abortion clinic in Texas.


    Well, now we know where the mainstream media was… waiting until midnight to deign to notice, and with narratives ready.

  127. PatrickG says

    Worth noting that the source link in the rawstory item is borked (i.e. not found). Not able to retrieve anything from search results at the Star-Telegram. Apologies, as I may have linked inaccurate information.

    That said, silver lining is Republicans from Texas look like absolute idiots at this point. Minor silver lining. :P

  128. PatrickG says

    One further note: Just ignore me. I’m apparently too intoxicated to note that the piece was from 2012.

    If only there was a god I could pray to for forum entry removal!

  129. Pteryxx says

    From the rotunda livestream – Cecile Richards (sp?) president of Planned Parenthood, addressed the crowd and pledged not to leave until the Senators come out of their chamber and give account of what they’ve done. Crowd’s now chanting “Hell no, we won’t go!” filling the rotunda and all three balconies.

  130. Pteryxx says

    Via dustbunny at Ophelias:

    They started the vote at 12.01 am, but it got logged as 11.59pm to make it “legal.” Reporters are all over social media confirming it was after midnight, but Lt. Gov. Dewhurst is still claiming it was just before…

    The official legislature page is getting edited, showing the vote first at 12:01am on the 26th, then at 11:59pm on the 25th.


    Leah Rose Spector ‏@leahspector 23s

    What in the hell #sb5 RT @TexasTribune RT @rdmurphy bill page has been edited. Now shows all votes occurring on 6/25. http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=831&Bill=SB5

  131. Rey Fox says

    That said, silver lining is Republicans from Texas look like absolute idiots at this point.

    When has that ever hurt them?

  132. Charlie Foxtrot says

    “RT @ggreeneva: What confuses Texas republicans: 1) Women 2) Science 3) Clocks #StandWithWendy”

  133. PatrickG says

    When has that ever hurt them?

    It doesn’t usually make national news and entail a court dispute around whether or not they made the midnight cut-off.

    But, as I said earlier, I’m intoxicated from my ‘we’re going to need alcohol to watch THIS livestream’ party. I do hope this will be a bit more assbiting than most R-TX efforts.

  134. Pteryxx says

    Protesters are being arrested around the edges of the crowd while speakers continue in the middle. Apparently crowds around the outside of the capitol building aren’t being allowed in. Meanwhile all Senators are being called back for a mandatory meeting in the chambers (now spectator-free).


    Meg Hargis ‏@Thesaurus_Rex_ 16s

    Hand-cuffed and shoved out. They are arresting elderly women. #txlege #sb5 http://fb.me/E90uEROv


    Teresa ‏@kirktc_487 33s

    Whitmire calls necessary conference for all Senators to meet in room behind Senate chamber for a meeting #txlege #SB5 #StandWithWendy


    laro fatima laro fatima ‏@livingzindagi 20s

    Let me get this straight, protestors in Texas are being arrested while the State Senate conducts an illegal vote? #SB5 #StandWithWendy

  135. rq says

    Pteryxx and Portia
    If I was a nail-biter, I would no longer have any nails… Thanks for the running commentary. All I can say is bravo to Wendy Davis, the courage and determination shown by her is inspiring; she deserves a Real medal for bravery. And all senators asking for testimony to be repeated deserve special commendation.
    And once again I just cannot fathom the logic and stupidity of those trying to push this bill through. Just cannot. The purpose would be what, exactly? I don’t get it.

  136. Pteryxx says

    Thanks rq, I know I’m hogging the Lounge, but I think it’s important to try and curate this in real time. The less coverage it gets, the more important that many of us are watching to remember how it really happened.

    …Someday, I’d kinda like to see a commemorative statue of an ordinary woman in a white dress and sneakers, arms crossed and leaning a little to one side as if unsteady, next to (but not touching) a speaker’s podium. It should have a modest circle of gravel and a few drought-tolerant ornamentals surrounding it, and it should be set upon a wide stone base with good traction so that tourists, kids, and the odd public speaker could stand up there and practice having the right to speak.

  137. PatrickG says

    Please hog the lounge, Pteryxx. I’ve been following this for many hours now, but (see above) don’t feel competent to comment.

    Your effective liveblogging here is awesome, in my opinion!

  138. Pteryxx says

    And I was waiting for a consensus… word seems to be that SB5 is officially dead. Reported from the Lt. Gov and repeated by Wendy Davis herself.


    Stef. Sullivan Rewis ‏@stefsull 16s

    @estellevw (watching live) The lieutenant governor has declared it! Wendy sent word. The crowd’s going bezerkers! YES! Dead (for now). #sb5


    David ‏@damn_it_david 17s

    I do believe the president of Planned Parenthood just announced on the live cell phone feed that #SB5 is dead.


    quin matteson ‏@maryquin 16s

    “@amanbatheja: Cecile Richards just told Capitol rotunda activists #sb5 is dead. Cheers. Crying. Hugs. #txlege” tears, joy, hope.

  139. rq says

    I don’t live in Texas, but I’m relieved. I cannot imagine the extent of their emotions.
    Thanks for the live-blog – you’re right, Pteryxx. If it’s not out in the mass media, as many as possible need to know what’s going on, in order to remember. And now it’s on the internet. :)

    Now all those news agencies will have to take their words back, about SB5 being passed and all that… No defeating this filibuster!!

  140. PatrickG says

    @ Pteryxx: PP is definitely declaring it dead. I’m having trouble finding sources for this, however. Richards is awesome, but I’m not quite sure I’m willing to accept her as a spokesperson for the TX Senate…

  141. Pteryxx says

    During all this, once the Youtube views got up over 100,000, I’ve seen tweets from Germany, France, Britain, and Canada.

    The rotunda crowd is now spontaneously singing “Eyes of Texas” (must be some U. Texas Longhorn fans about.)

    Still waiting on official word from the senators still in the back-room caucus. Wendy Davis gave word through a text message, as far as I can tell.

  142. bad Jim says

    She deserves a statue no matter how this turns out.

    What else pisses me off is that, not only do I have a watch which is accurate to within a second, everyone else has a cell phone which pretty much does too. Doesn’t everyone know what time it is?

  143. Pteryxx says

    It’s done: officially done, in the chamber, gavel hit and all.


    Texas Tribune ‏@TexasTribune 23s

    “Regrettably” @DavidHDewhurst says time expired and #SB5 cannot be enrolled. #txlege. “It’s been fun, but, um, see ya soon,” he says.


    OccupyPhoenix ‏@occupyphoenix 21s

    #standwithwendy @amanbatheja: In less that 48 hours, Gov. Rick Perry will address the National Right to Life Convention in Dallas. #sb5”



  144. Pteryxx says

    While “Regrettably” Dewhurst sleazes to reporters, Wendy Davis is speaking to the rotunda crowd:


    Dylan Osborne ‏@MDylanOsborne 24s

    “@TexasTribune:An unruly mob using Occupy Wall St tactics derailed legislation to protect women, babies, @DavidHDewhurst said. #SB5 #txlege”


    Sing n Play Sing n Play ‏@SingnPlay 24s

    via @scottyd3000: @WendyDavisTexas addresses crowd, victorious #SB5 #txlege pic.twitter.com/ER2rLTKCcS /Great foto. Rep surrounded by The People

  145. Pteryxx says

    wow, that CNN article is some polished-up shit.

    Texas state Sen. Wendy Davis tried Tuesday to block the abortion bill by attempting a 13-hour filibuster, but fell short three hours early when the chairman ruled she had gone off topic.

    The packed gallery of the session erupted in boos. And for 15 minutes — as the clocked ticked toward 12 a.m. — their raucous chants and shouts drowned out the proceedings.

    Midnight came and went. For three hours after that, confusion ruled.

    so 15 minutes of booing fills up three hours of session time! (or maybe six hours)

    The website of the Texas legislature showed a vote had taken place, but didn’t offer details.


  146. bad Jim says

    ABC is still equivocal, NYTimes hasn’t signed on, but CBS says Texas abortion bill fails to pass after epic filibuster. It’s fun watching the news propagate through news sources the way it does on election nights.

    Pteryxx is telling us what’s actually going on, but I’m afraid to believe it until the consensus coalesces. Facts are actually fragile.

    We already had a heroine. Now we have a winner, too. That’s damned nice.

  147. Pteryxx says

    Message of thanks Wendy Davis emailed to her supporters:


    Most importantly, I simply have no words to express my gratitude to those who lent their voice in the over 12,000 personal stories that you bravely and selflessly shared with me to object to this dangerous legislation.

    Although I was the one with the microphone on the floor of the Senate today, it was your voice and your words – it was your filibuster.

  148. Pteryxx says

    and this is a good summary and wrap-up, though again it doesn’t note that SB5 was conceded to have failed:


    Oh, and in other news: Davis only has her Senate seat thanks to Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, the Huffington Post reports. Her many GOP enemies tried to redistrict her out of the Senate in 2011, but with the help of the Justice Department she beat back the plan. I quoted the NAACP’s Ben Jealous Tuesday saying that no matter what any progressive’s No. 1 issue is, voting rights must be their No. 2, especially after the Supreme Court’s Tuesday decision gutting historic voter protections. That very night, we got an excellent argument for Jealous’s case.

  149. Pteryxx says

    *blush* Well, I live here. How could I not?

    Thanks for paying attention, y’all.

    Didn’t see filibuster coverage on the Guardian, but they did republish this piece today from Tiger Beatdown.


    Restrictions on abortion cast are often cast as a uniquely Southern problem, like many other conservative policies in the US. But they aren’t, not with California’s parental notification laws, Ohio’s fetal heartbeat bill, Rhode Island’s TRAP laws. They are a national problem, a reflection of a consciousness that is shifting against choice, against bodily autonomy, against reproductive freedom. They are an indicator of a country that strongly believes that some people are not full human beings, and so not deserve equal access to basic medical care.

    There are attitudes among many liberal corners of this country that “these things” don’t happen in their states, and that “the South” is a uniform monolith; “what’s the matter with [state name]” is a statement oft-heard on the lips of supposedly progressive types. In making statements like that, they write off all the hard work of people on the ground. Of heroines like Wendy Davis, standing on her feet for 13 hours defending the rights of people in her state to access abortions when they need them. Of grassroots organisers and abortion providers and activists and lobbyists across the US South fighting for reproductive rights and, in fact, human rights in general.

    Not just for reproductive rights but for voting rights, for LGBQT rights, for equal access to education, for an end to abuses in the justice system, for an acknowledgement of the tremendous problems caused by class inequality, for an end to racial injustice.

  150. thunk, pitching over at Hadley Rille says

    Oh FFS, I picked the worst night to all-nighter. It’s been thunderstorming for almost two hours as of this point; and they just keep on backbuilding and training.

    The constant lightning isn’t helping my latent brontophobia any.

  151. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    So great to see a win for a change, and in more or less real time too! Thanks Petryxx.

    In less good, and closer to home news, Australia no longer has an atheist woman for a prime minister. Like another leadership coup is going to help what passes for progressives in this country win the coming election. Bah.

  152. rq says

    Such change in leadership, with elections soon after, rarely bodes well for the progressive party… It’s kind of how Canada lost out to Harper, what with the Liberals having a new leader and trying for elections too soon after his ascendancy.
    I hope Australia does better!

  153. ImaginesABeach says

    Wendy Davis may have been filibustering one specific bill, in one specific regressive state, but I can’t help feeling she was standing up there for all of us. My state is almost always a blue state, but we had 2 years of repubican control of both house and senate, and not one principled Democrat stood hard on principle (probably because they knew the governor was a Democrat who would veto whatever he could).

  154. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Gillard just gave her farewell speech. Beautifully done. Said that her gender didn’t explain everything about how she was treated as PM and it wasn’t nothing either. Also said that she was bemused when her colleagues would talk about the extraordinary treatment she faced and then they would turn around and claim that it didn’t mean anything. Said that she knew that her PM-ship would make it easier for the women who would follow.

  155. rq says

    Wow. Which senator was it who asked about women raising their hands to be noticed? Best to yell, and loudly. I approve. [/rq seal of approval]


    Dragonflies having sex. Because this world is beautiful.

  156. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says


    The polls were showing that if Rudd retook the leadership they stood a chance in the coming election. Here’s hoping the the polls were right. The only good thing that I can say about this is that it should put an end to the political infighting amongst this Labour Party.

  157. rq says

    That seems like a positive indicator. I hope the polls aren’t lying.

  158. dianne says

    It becomes clearer every day that the term “pro-life” is a classic Orwellian one. Probably dreamed up in the Ministry of Love. The point, as the Beatriz case makes explicit, is to kill women, not to save fetuses.

    I hope that Wendy Davis and the citizens of Texas have gained a real victory, stopping the bill permanently. But even if they didn’t they are a critical example. The sort of example that leads people to resist in the Milgram experiments. And this gives me some hope for the country.

    At least it would except for the recent Supreme Court decision on the voting rights act. Davis will almost certainly lose her seat and be replaced by a “pro-life” anti-people business thug. May the justices who voted against upholding the act die of something that will be curable 6 months after they die. (Yeah, I know, my curses are crappy.)

  159. carlie says

    Clarification – the tweet I linked to was in response to the news that a CNN host said that the filibuster was a waste of time because they should have tried to compromise instead.

  160. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Pteryxx, I’m gonna add another thanks for your liveblogging of the SB5 filibuster. I didn’t stay up to watch it, but I still felt the excitement and tension in your posts.

    Wendy Davis is the rep for the region I grew up in, and that makes me proud of the Ft Worth area.

  161. says

    Hi there
    I see you had a busy night…

    I merely had a buy evening going to the parents’ meeting at the school.
    That principal is officially bah.
    She told us “we’ll find the best solution for the child” (as if she had any clue) and then patted my fucking arm as if I were a sick horse!!!
    In class we just mostly kept our mouths shut. Didn’t ask anything about non-christian children because I don’t want her to be rejected on basis of us being godless. I’ll pick that fight up once she got accepted.

  162. says

    Congratulations and thanks to Senator Wendy Davis!

    Ogvorbis and others, have you seen this post about the neuroscience and reinforcement of emotional triggers? Memories, Emotions, and Brains? Conclusion: “We can not simple ‘get over it’, or ‘not feel that way’, or turn off our responses. Cries for us to do so, to ‘grow up’, to ‘stop being so emotional’, are demands that, frankly, run contrary to the biological facts of reality, and the beliefs that we can do all of these things are part of the folk psychology that 1) many of us build up inductively over the course of our lives, and 2) is completely wrong.”

  163. Pteryxx says

    Wow. Which senator was it who asked about women raising their hands to be noticed? Best to yell, and loudly.

    That was Leticia Van de Putte, the Senator from the district including San Antonio. She was out of town for her father’s funeral when all this started.

    Also take note of Judith Zafirini representing Laredo, who raised objections to the misuse of “germane”. She is staunchly pro-life yet opposed SB5 because it would limit women’s access to health care.

  164. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says


    Thanks. That makes sense. There are certain stimuli that are linked (I like the ‘neurons that fire together, wire together’ link — explains why triggers can happen (no weakness involved (take that, deflated ego!))). For me, certain combinations of smells = 9/11 memories. So those are pretty much permanently linked? Makes sense.



    Thank you for your work on the filibuster. Fantastic.

    Bravo SCOTUS re: DOMA. Has the right wing freakout started yet?

  165. carlie says

    That was Leticia Van de Putte, the Senator from the district including San Antonio. She was out of town for her father’s funeral when all this started.

    Yep. She literally had to go to her dad’s funeral and then straight from there into the legislative session. She is seriously badass, as are Sens. Zafarini, Watson, and that other guy who kept raising inquiries too.

  166. opposablethumbs says

    Thank you, Pteryxx. That was awesome – I so take off all my hats to Sen. Davis and those who helped her.

  167. yazikus says

    Thank you, Pteryxx, for your work here. That was awesome.

    And Yay! for Wendy Davis!!

    Chiming in to second this as well. Thank you, Pteryxx! I wasn’t able to watch the live feed, so this was perfect for me. Sad thing is, I’m so eager to talk about this, and there isn’t anyone (other than partner) that I can talk to about this IRL.

  168. says

    Many thanks to everyone who helped the denizens of the Pharyngula Lounge stay abreast of the abortion bill fight in Texas. Wendy Davis is a true hero. Barack Obama tweeted “Something special is happening in Austin tonight.” #StandWithWendy

    To add one more bit of information to this story: Texas Republicans tried in 2011 to redistrict Wendy Davis out of her Senate seat. They failed … but only because the Voting Rights Act prevented the nefarious redistricting ploy. Yes, the same art of the Voting Rights Act that the Supreme Court gutted yesterday was used to keep Texas Republicans from drawing district voting maps that were meant to disadvantage Democratic candidates. Guess what Texas Republicans will do next.

    How Section 5 blocked a power grab in Texas.

    Our work is not yet done.

  169. cicely says

    Please hog the lounge, Pteryxx. I’ve been following this for many hours now, but (see above) don’t feel competent to comment.
    Your effective liveblogging here is awesome, in my opinion!

    Yes, indeed! Extra ice cream ration for Pteryxx!

    Wendy Davis may have been filibustering one specific bill, in one specific regressive state, but I can’t help feeling she was standing up there for all of us.

    This, too.

  170. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    So, my ex is now dating yet another guy and wants to introduce him to our daughter a month or two into the relationship. He’s not from AA and he has a nine year old so OBVIOUSLY NO CAUTION AT ALL IS REQUIRED *facepalm*.

    She needs to wait on this. Any suggestions for resources that will convey that, since she won’t listen to me on anything?

  171. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I fell asleep on my keyboard last night, then paused the live feed so I could watch in the morning. So happy with the end, even if the GOP broke every procedural rule in the book. I was aghast at the way they sidestepped and backpedaled and just plain lied about what they said.

  172. says

    So uhh… I got the receptionist at my physical therapy place’s phone number. She’s attractive, and we have similar interests and hobbies.

    Unfortunately, I don’t know her political or religious leanings, and I don’t know when/how to spring the whole neurotic transgender thing on her >_> I’ll ask her out tomorrow to a movie on Friday.

  173. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Katherine, good luck! I’ve found a good litmus test for political and religious leanings is to see if they know and like Tim Minchin’s stuff. YMMV

  174. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    Still basically threadrupt but:

    cicely, David M , Portia – *pouncehug*

    Pteryxx – *gentle anklehug*

    And I’ll leave a *pile of hugs and chocolate* for anyone else who wants/needs them.

  175. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    *pounces towards pouncehug, creating megapounce that shakes foundations of the Lounge*


  176. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Best wishes for finding a kindred spirit, Kat!

  177. Ragutis says

    Finals day at the Oakley Pro Bali. Waves are firing right now and hopefully the wind and tide won’t mess with it before the end. Yeah, the commentating isn’t stellar, (rather banal, actually) especially if you’re not familiar with the people or the sport, but hey, if you can’t find anything else on…


  178. says

    I wonder if David W (from the recent racism in America thread) would think this is not worth blogging about either:

    “Waiting to Exhale” author Terry McMillan today wrote a series of offensive posts that riled up her followers, saying: “Imagine the United States without any Mexicans. We’d probably starve, have dirty houses and no gardens. Lots of educated Latinos too.”

  179. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    My status post for Facebook this morning:

    On June 25th 2013 at 11:18am one woman stood up. She did not sit down again for eleven hours. She stood there as a lonely bulwark against the erosion of the rights of women to control their own bodies. She stood there, forbidden to so much as lean on her desk, forbidden to leave even to go to the toilet, so that the regressive authoritarians could not impose their religious beliefs upon those who are not of their faith.

    On June 25th 2013 at 11:18am one woman spoke up. She did not stop talking for the next eleven hours. She spoke of how this law would affect the women in her state. She told story after story after story about how restrictive abortion laws harm women. True stories passed on to her by the women who lived them. One woman spoke up so that all those who would be hurt by the hateful religious dogma informing this law could have a voice.

    She was forced to sit down two hours short of success, and then a remarkable thing happened. Other voices cried out. The public gallery, filled to capacity in stark contrast to the near empty senate floor, erupted. Voices cried out, separately at first and then in unison, so loud that they made it impossible for the vote to be held. When those voices were quelled other senators spoke up. They questioned, delayed and stalled until they could no longer.

    The vote happened, and beyond anyone’s realistic expectation it failed. It failed despite every effort of those who would deny the rights of another human being to control their own bodies. Efforts that went so far as to tamper with the time stamps to make it appear that the vote was taken before the deadline.

    So today, and everyday henceforth, I urge you to remember Wendy Davis.

    I urge you to stand up.

    I urge you to speak up.

    We are not all legislators but that doesn’t mean that our voices are powerless. As the money quote in another recent blow against sexism states: “The standard you walk past is the standard you endorse.” We can all make a difference by not being silent when the little acts of misogyny happen in front of us. It can even be as little as saying “Hey, there’s no need to bring gender into this.”

    Ever act calling out everyday sexim honours and amplifies the achievement of Ms. Davis. Each of those acts, no matter how small, pushes our culture towards one that embraces the radical notion that women are people. For culture is not just the laws of the land but is also the individual actions of each and every participant in that culture.

    And let me be clear here: the ‘you’ and the ‘we’ to whom I refer are not women exclusively. They’re not even women primarily. Those of us who have the privilege of being male in this culture, whose voices have not be silenced by traditional gender roles, have an obligation to use that privilege. We have an obligation to stand up and raise our voices so that those who cannot be heard are not forgotten.

    Stand up.

    Speak up.

    It is up to us to show Wendy Davis that she is not alone.

    Most of my friends are of a similar mindset to me, but I’m guessing that this will shake out any secret regressives.

  180. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Just saw on Wendy Davis’ Facebook that Perry is going to call a second special session to try and pass SB5 again.

    Stand Up needs to be a lasting rallying cry.

  181. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Annnnd, I did a bit more reading and discovered that my timeline was wrong. /hating on twitter

    What actually happened was that the senators stalled until 15 minutes before the deadline. At which point one woman senator, frustrated at not being recognised to speak said “At what point must a female senator raise her hand and voice to be recognised by her male colleagues?” That’s when the public gallery erupted and they continued to make so much noise that the vote was delayed past the deadline.

    I know that everyone else got that right, but I’m a bit challenged at the moment brain-wise, what with the walking and breathing trying to go on at the same time as the thinking. ;)

  182. yazikus says

    Hey Horde, So tomorrow I am going to be part of committee for choosing a study subject for the next few years. Any thoughts? I’m big on sex-ed. But there are many other issues affecting the community.

  183. says

    Don’t have a lot to say, *hugs* for them as wants them. D is out of hospital again, and things are back to what passes for normal on that front.
    Best of luck with the date.

  184. rq says

    Ooooh, good luck, Katherine!

    *hugs* for Dalillama.


    Reminder: Help me out and vote here for Sonore (we’re near the bottom of the list (second-last); turns out the links are wonky with their proper direction and all, since yesterday my direct-to-Sonore-page link was odd… but it’s all fitting for a brewery!). When you find us on the list, just use your Facebook and/or Twitter account to help us get to and experience Canada next year!

  185. ednaz says

    Thank You so much Pteryxx. You are awesome!

    Thank You for sharing your voice with us, FossilFishy.

    Many many *hugs* for You, Dalillama.

    Katherine, Will happily wait for update. : ) Hope all goes well.

  186. rq says

    What other kinds of topics are on the table for study? Is it anything goes or are there some issues more likely to be chosen/with more relevance than others?


    Lesson on racism, via third-graders. Rather powerful.

    !!! Help the Swamp Line 9 protest! From their Facebook page:

    Early this morning Hamilton Police moved on to the #SwampLine9 protest action in Ontario, mass arresting almost everyone on site. At this moment in time, those arrested are being released with charges. Charges include Disobey Court Order and Trespass.

    Activists have been occupying an Enbridge pumping station north of Hamilton, Ontario since early Thursday morning. This action, dubbed Swamp Line 9, aims to prevent construction on Line 9 and block the transport of Tar Sands through Ontario and Quebec. This action is also part of the Idle No More campaign Sovereignty Summer.

    and spread the word, share!

  187. Nepenthe says

    *hugs Pharyngula*

    I’m supernaturalist-ed out.

    *rolls around in the naturalist milleu like a cat in a pile of freshly laundered clothes*

  188. says

    Good morning
    So, what do I make of that?
    Talked to #1’s kindergarten teacher again. Since the kid noticed that people, especially the principal hold “being an introvert and happy to play alone all day” against her she’s become a social butterfly who actively takes children by the hand and engages them in play…
    As if you flipped a switch.
    Did I mention that she’s too smart for her own good?
    Still doesn’t say “hello”, though. But maybe, just maybe it’s just “being too smart”.

    Big hugs

    Good luck on the date.

    I’m very much in favour of a general “how not to be an asshole” class, but since that’s probably not possible sex ed sounds good, especially since you can make “how not to be an asshole” part of that.

    So, Sandy Davies stood up, she played by the rules, her allies supported her, she won so Republicans decide that they can simply ignore the rules.

  189. rq says

    First, the cheery news – new species are everywhere (even tiny little dinosaurs).

    Then, there’s this Canadian perspective on the Filibuster of Texas, which is more or less blah for its un-sided-ness, but it lost my respect with the inclusion of this:

    There were also jokes, such as the one from Danny Zuker, the executive producer of Modern Family. He tweeted: “I definitely #StandWithWendy but if you want to hear a woman talk for 15 hours just call my mom and ask her how she’s doing.”

    Because listening to your mother speak for 15 hours about her life is comparable to a woman standing up for women’s health and fighting to save lives (to be fair, maybe it is, if your mom is a heart surgeon or a firefighter).

  190. says

    Listening to the new Black Sabbath album. Loving it~&heart;

    From “Age of Reason”

    Mystifying silence
    Talking Peace on Earth.
    We should judge each other for ourselves not what we’re worth.

    A lot of the songs are really… just… dude… DEEP. And there’s a lot of truth contained therein.

    Reminding me once more just why I love me some Ozzy.

  191. mildlymagnificent says

    What a shame. If we’d known we could have bought all. the. shares. in all the pink tennis shoes companies and made our fortunes! (And then donated all the lovely lolly to a certain senator’s run for governor.)

    If Perry’s going to pull this stunt again, I expect to see a lot of pink footwear on the streets.

  192. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    rq: Voted. I think I voted for you.

    Google translate made me laugh: “Did you have become 18 years of age?”

    You are “Radošā nometne 11 deju kolektīviem.
    TDA Zīle
    Vidzeme ”



    Personally, I think the “talk to my mom” bit is annoying because ‘har har women yap forever and they’re boring amirite?!” Fuck that guy. Ugh.

  193. rq says

    You voted for a dance troupe. :(
    But that’s ok. We’re on the left-hand side, second-last from the bottom, ‘jauktais koris Sonore’. We’re the only other group with ‘Kanāda’ in the title.
    Don’t worry, you can try again tomorrow! :)

    And google translate is hilarious sometimes.

  194. rq says

    As for the women-talking guy, yeah. That’s exactly how I read it, the whole ‘women talk non-stop so how is this any different’ attitude that just… doesn’t get it.

  195. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Curses! I’m sorry : (

    I’ll try again tomorrow.

  196. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Wow I guess I have morning brain. Had I looked at the damn PICTURES that are conveniently provided I would have recognized your nifty gowns. Or, had I pressed “translate” on the second page I would have seen “dance” and “choir” …I just assumed google wasn’t translating that part. Sigh.

    *slurps first sip of coffee*

  197. rq says

    Ah, mornings… so fresh, so fine, so flighty! ;)
    Which reminds me, I want my afternoon coffee. *grrr*

  198. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    Due to Perry being a complete asshole, is there a movement to make the pink sneakers a symbol?

  199. dianne says

    An anti’s view of recent events. He’s scared because people are yelling things he doesn’t like. But is presumably willing to dismiss the fears of those whose offices have been bombed or have been shot for their beliefs. Whatever happened to the priests who met martyrdom with a smile on their lips and a song in their hearts? Now they can’t even face hurt feefees….

  200. dianne says

    In case you’re wondering, I read stuff like this because I want to see what people with different world views from mine think about things. I end up sharing the more outrageous ones here because, predictably enough, I end up getting upset at what people with world views I consider dangerous have to say…

  201. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Yesterday was busy and long.

    We had an elder hostile group visit the park.

    I presented three linked programmes at the park. Then, because their dinner speaker was ill, I created a brand new programme discussing the coal economy of the area.

    I started out with 18th century English mercantilism, wandered into iron making, then into fuels, then jumped back to the Carboniferous and the Permian to discuss coal swamps and the Appalachian orogeny event, then through transportation, back to coal and the terrorism associated with proto-unions, through the changing market uses of anthracite coal, to decline and disinvestment, into economic collapse and wrapped it all up in a nice neat bow of heritage tourism. I spoke for an hour, no script, just all the weird shit that I know off the top of my head. It was fun. And, at the end of an hour, I still had them in the palm of my hand and they were asking questions and begging for more.

  202. says

    Ogvorbis, just from that description you have me (and probably others in the horde) wanting to hear it. Sounds wonderful. I know lots about many different topics, but I could never talk for an hour ad lib.

    I’m going to take as given that hostile was a typo for hostel because it sounds very much like they weren’t.

  203. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Whell, it wasn’t totally ad lib. I had about a day to figure out what I was going to say.

    And yes, that was yet another Homage to Tpyos.

  204. Ing:Intellectual Terrorist "Starting Tonight, People will Whine" says

    I don’t know if anyone else saw this but Bryan Fischer on Twitter quoted Andrew Jackson’s response to the SCOTUS regarding the Trail of Tears regarding the DOMA ruling.

    Fischer literally compared his actions to a forced death march

  205. hotshoe, now with more boltcutters says

    An anti’s view of recent events. He’s scared because people are yelling things he doesn’t like. But is presumably willing to dismiss the fears of those whose offices have been bombed or have been shot for their beliefs. Whatever happened to the priests who met martyrdom with a smile on their lips and a song in their hearts? Now they can’t even face hurt feefees….

    ooh, yuck, Longenecker. What a piece of filth he is. Reading him makes me want to – I don’t know – I can’t think of words strong enough to express how much I hate the corrupt murderous Catholic church and every person who represents it.
    Anyone who remains Catholic nowadays is without excuse, and those who deliberately attempt to infect others with the Catholic disease, like sick motherfucking Longenecker, should be treated as lepers and confined for the good of the rest of society.

  206. rq says

    Sounds like an entrancing and educational evening; wish I could have heard you, offerings to Tpyos and all!

  207. says

    Face-palm-worthy details continue to emerge from the fight in Texas over an anti-abortion bill, the bill which Wendy Davis temporarily stalled with her heroic filibuster. Here’s one such detail:

    Salon link.

    Leaflets printed with Bible verses littered the desks of Texas lawmakers early Monday as House Republicans voted to approve a sweeping abortion measure that, if passed, would shutter 37 of the state’s 42 abortion clinics.

    Leaflets with Bible verses! Yeah, that sounds like secular state government. Not.

  208. cicely says

    *hugs* for Dalillama.

    Ogvorbis, your impromptu program sounds interesting. Wish I coulda heard it.

  209. Pteryxx says

    *general hugs and applause for Ogvorbis’s eloquence*

    I’m going to focus almost entirely on Texas for a while yet. Remember that House rep who called the Capitol demonstrators “terrorists”?


    He’s a right-to-lifer on the board of a local Crisis Pregnancy Center – religiously based, and propounding misinformation and pressure tactics on their website. Not linking but look for Arlington Pregnancy Center. For instance, they will give free sonograms (remember, sonograms are *mandatory* before seeking abortions in Texas) but only “if you qualify” by coming in for a interrogation appointment first.

    This is from their page on morning-after treatment (which must be taken within 3 days of unprotected sex, recall:)

    Should I take the morning-after pill?
    Many times women panic after having unprotected sex and rush to take the morning-after pill (Plan B One Step® or Next Choice®). However, you can only become pregnant on certain days of the month — around the time that you ovulate. Taking the morning-after pill during a time when you cannot become pregnant needlessly exposes you to large doses of hormones.

    If you are already pregnant from an earlier sexual encounter, taking the morning-after pill is of no value and may cause harm . To find out if you are pregnant, contact us, and we’ll connect you with a caring, qualified pregnancy center near you.

  210. David Marjanović says

    Oh, and, that centipede wrapping herself around her huge eggs looks a lot like a caecilian that way. ^_^

  211. cicely says

    And apparently your PET link Does Not Allow Hotlinking.

  212. David Marjanović says

    So uhh… I got the receptionist at my physical therapy place’s phone number.

    I’ll just say you have no idea how awesome the grammar of this sentence is. =)

  213. David Marjanović says


    Even this way it doesn’t? Simply try again, then it works. Click on the address bar and hit Enter.

    Now I have to run.

  214. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Ogvorbis, your impromptu program sounds interesting. Wish I coulda heard it.

    (and others)

    If I ever meat y’all in real life, just toss me a subject and, if I know enough about it, I’ll do an impromptu talk just to see if I really am as good as I (and you) think I am.

  215. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Sorry. If I ever mete you out in real life . . . .


  216. Rawnaeris, Lulu Cthulhu says

    I don’t have a topic card, but I’d love to listen to the impromptu talks! :-D

  217. Pteryxx says

    — more Texas stuff —

    Gentlebeings, our Lt. Gov. “Germane” Dewhurst:

    “Obama-style, mob-rule politics exploded in the Texas Senate on the final day of the first special session, derailing legislation of great importance to Texans,” wrote Dewhurst in a blog post Wednesday night. “The message sent by the angry throng gathered from across the country was clear: they will stop at nothing to undermine conservative Texas values.”

    Sen. Davis: ‘Rick Perry’s statement is without dignity’

    (“Gathered from across the country” indeed. The crowd just HAPPENED to know the UT Austin fight song “Eyes of Texas” by heart.)

    Locals are ramping up for the next wave of action, starting with a protest at the Right to Life national convention (at which Dewhurst, Perry, Texas attorney general Greg Abbott and others are speakers). The convention also has a Teens for Life track, including these gems presented this morning:

    10:00 – 11:30 AM

    Why Humans are Exceptional (Wesley J. Smith) Animal rights and even plants’ rights are in the news. Learn from our favorite international expert in the field of bioethics about how and why humans are unique and the most highly valued among all the species on the planet. Wesley combines passion, humor and intelligence as he breaks a complex topic down in a way that everyone will understand. And he’ll make you want to learn more! M: Eileen Newsome

    12:30 – 1:30 PM

    A) Abortion 101 (Eileen Newsome) For those of you who are new, or those who just need a refresher, this session will give you the basic information you need about abortion and how it impacts unborn children, the primary victims of this horrible evil that has decimated two generations. M: April’s daughter


    B) Health Care Rationing 101 (April Holley Thompson) If this isn’t your first convention rodeo, April is here to share some information on a more advanced topic – the rationing of health care. Learn how health care rationing targets the weak and vulnerable and how you can help stop it! M: Colleen Haupt

    And they provide childcare:

    On-Site Childcare for newborn to 12 years: $100
    Childcare price includes care for all three days during Convention hours. This includes snacks & in-hotel activities for newborn to 3; field trips, lunch, and snacks for children ages 4 to 12.

    No sign of an anti-harassment policy though.

  218. Dana Hunter says

    Apropos of nothing, I’d like to beg the Horde’s excellent Pharyngulating skillz. I’ve got a friend you might recognize as one of our own – RQ – whose choir is trying to win an assload of money from a local bar so they can make it from Latvia to Canada. It’s a big deal for her, and you can help with just a couple quick clicks! Here’s how: http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaesverdad/2013/06/26/vote-for-one-of-our-own/. Thank you in advance, my darlings! Mucho grande love to the lot of you!

  219. rq says

    Thanks, Dana!!! :) I’m giving the Horde daily reminders, too, but any and all help is beyond welcome! ♥


    this horrible evil that has decimated two generations

    Do they realize how much social services/support would have to be doled out had these two generations survived in toto???
    Because it’s as always… Fetusfetusfetusfetus, and not a word about improving education, access, social safety net, health care overall, etc. I don’t understand their logic and their thought processes, how they honestly believe they’re improving the world somehow, making it better (even for god). I don’t get it.

  220. says

    Just what we need, more causes for security and surveillance concerns — our cars can be hacked.

    …“Experimental Security Analysis of a Modern Vehicle,” and Comprehensive Experimental Analyses of Automotive Attack Surfaces.

    Taken together, the papers make for scary reading. In the first the researchers demonstrate that it is a relatively trivial exercise to access the computer systems of a modern car and take control away from the driver. The second demonstrates that such mayhem can be achieved remotely, via a variety of methods. The inescapable conclusion: The modern car is a security disaster….


  221. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Is it ironic if the day of the historic gay marriage decisions, I am hired to for my first civil union dissolution? I’m not sure…

  222. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I should say “retained” not “hired”, as it’s a pro bono case.

  223. Pteryxx says

    Lynna’s article was more on-point than mine, anyway. *alliesalliesallies*

    Ana Mardoll (who wrote [this essay] at Shakes about reconsidering her desire to conceive because she lives in Texas) is compiling a timeline and summary of the filibuster as she experienced it, now with the flood of Twitter information and research melded in:


    Texas Senate filibuster rules are hardcore, and not coincidentally were deliberately made even more so on this night in an attempt to silence Wendy. No food allowed, though past senators have been allowed to suck candy mints. No water allowed, through past senators have been allowed to chew ice chips. No bathroom breaks allowed, though the record holding senator for Texas filibusters — Bill Meier who held the floor for 43 hours against a worker’s compensation bill because Big Business — was given the courtesy of a human wall of bodies to shield him from view while he pissed in a trash can that was brought to him by another, all so he wouldn’t have to leave his place on the floor.

    Senator Wendy Davis was not allowed to sit. She was not allowed to lean on her desk. She could not leave the narrow bubble of space around her desk. She was barred from “assistance” from her fellow senators, a term which was loosely defined in order to silence her. She was allowed no “off-topic remarks” which was way she couldn’t read Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale nor hold court with a phone book a la Jimmy Stewart. And unlike the rules in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, Senator Davis couldn’t pass control of the floor to her Democratic allies.

    One woman. Alone. That was the only way the Republicans would allow this filibuster to proceed.

    Senator Davis started with her concerns over the bill before segueing into citizen testimony which had been scheduled (if I understand correctly) as floor business for the previous day, which meant that the testimony was automatically considered “on topic” for the bill. Note that this previously scheduled citizen testimony was not the same as the supporter stories that many of us submitted online and which Wendy read aloud later. This distinction between previously scheduled citizen testimony and newly introduced supporter stories would be important later because of the “germane” restrictions imposed on Wendy’s filibuster.

    Throughout her filibuster, Senator Davis was scrupulous to ask for silence from her supporters in the gallery — silence that was absolutely necessary lest Dewhurst rule to clear the gallery and bar supporters from the room. And despite the emotions the supporters were feeling, their fully justifiable anger and rage and sorrow and joy and gratitude and ALL THE FEELS, they were silent. They were silent because they knew what was at stake, and because we marginalized people are already heart-breakingly adept at silencing our grief and rage.

    One male pro-life opponent of the filibuster was not so restrained.

    And, by the way, if you were watching the live stream of the event, it might have seemed strange to see so many empty chairs in the gallery, as if not nearly enough supporters turned up to fill the senate floor. That is a false impression, which I feel may have been created deliberately — it’s my understanding that the number of spectators was a limit imposed by the Republicans. Pro-choice supporters decked in orange were standing in long lines to get in (when supporters on the floor left for breaks), and huge crowds gathered outside around the building.

    From watching the hashtag streams on Twitter Tuesday night, I can verify the long lines and crowds, and that observers inside the gallery, many of whom were liveblogging for those who couldn’t watch the feed, were coordinating with friends in line to exchange their seats. There were also notes of anti-abortion observers being allowed to sit on steps, put their feet on extra seats and such while orange-shirted choice supporters were not.

    Mardoll is still writing this comprehensive post as she has the spoons to do so – keep refreshing.

  224. dianne says

    reconsidering her desire to conceive because she lives in Texas

    I was willing to get pregnant only because I lived in New York City at that time and felt confident that I would not lose control over my body by becoming pregnant. I will never take that chance again.

  225. rq says

    But but but I thought this legislation was supposed to help babies be born!!! And DOMA, too – together, all hetero-normative married couples (whites only, of course) would have gone at it like bunnies and produced generations and generations of healthy, smart and gun-hungry Americans for the future. [/snark]

  226. says

    I am perturbed.

    I was reading Ed’s opinion on the DOMA ruling and one commenter in the thread made some comments about how mad he was that marriage equality opponents and supporters have said nothing about the sole reason government has any say in marriage–the well being of children.

    Yeah, I know (he also made it clear he thinks children are better off with both parents and that forced sterilization might cause people to think twice before seeking a divorce)

    In any case, I decided to refute a few things he said. In the process I had to read up on divorce in the US, no fault divorce, the effects of divorce on children and all manner of supporting material. I had it all composed and was previewing it when my phone lost its connection to the net and briefly kicked me off (fucking 3G).

    I had been working on that lengthy response since 1230 pm. It is now 430 pm.

    I take consolation in realizing that I learned quite a bit and several commenters provided refutations in that thread.

    But STILL…4 hours!

  227. dianne says

    rq: Know what makes more babies be born? Health care. Prevents miscarriages and reduces the need for abortion. So why aren’t the “pro-life” Republicans complaining about how Obama’s AHCA doesn’t go nearly far enough and demanding more money for research into miscarriage prevention and maternal health?

  228. dianne says

    And, yeah, I know. More biology research is my answer to everything. But it’s so often true…

  229. rq says

    I know, that’s exactly what I don’t get.
    They’re so pro-life, they forget about life when it’s actually life. They’re Pre-life, not pro-life.

  230. dianne says

    rq: This is part of what led me to eventually conclude that their behavior was consistent with wanting to control women’s behavior, not with wanting to save lives.

  231. rq says

    It would seem to be a solid conclusion, but I still don’t understand why. I suppose there isn’t any real purpose besides They Want It So, but… it just seems so pointless. I don’t understand how people can think that way. I just don’t.

  232. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    They fear the loss of their privilege, just like anti-immigration fanatics, just like persecution-complex Xians, just like [fill in the blank].

    : p

    It’s a way to keep us be-uterused people down.

  233. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    They think everyone is as nasty as they are. So, they think that if we get any more power, we will treat them the way they’ve treated us.

    Anything other than the dominance granted to those who benefit from the kyriarchy looks like preference is being given to those who are disadvantaged by it.

    e.g. Sen. McCaskill’s hold on that one lady’s nomination (can’t be arsed to google at the moment) because that lady dismissed charges against a convicted sex offender = war on men.

    Hope my run-on sentences are coherent.

  234. rq says

    I think it’s the They/Us dichotomy that I don’t really understand.
    Yes, for all of my cynicism in everyday life, I’m surprisingly naive.

  235. rq says

    Unfortunately, no.
    Maybe next time.
    (We have a year. I’m sure we’ll be taking advantage of every opportunity to beg for funds for this trip. I’ll keep y’all posted.)

  236. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    the sole reason government has any say in marriage–the well being of children.

    odd. I thought it had something to do with the government’s interest in making it possible for contracts to enforced.

    Does that mean gun nuts are going to start hoarding classic cars?

    Don’t you remember a few years ago when Obama forced through that commienazi bill that helped people get rid of old and inefficient automobiles and trucks. See, even back then Obama knew that he’d be able to hack into cars and control our thoughts through the use of transmission fluid. Thought transmission fluid, that is.

    heir behavior was consistent with wanting to control women’s behavior, not with wanting to save lives.

    Oh, no. It actually has nothing to do with women. They are trying to preserve the sex lives of wealthy white men.

    What are they so afraid of?

    They know that if women can actually make decisions and think for themselves, their penises will fall off.

    True fact.


    You can believe me because I am a straight white male.

  237. cicely says

    And DOMA, too – together, all hetero-normative married couples (whites only, of course) would have gone at it like bunnies and produced generations and generations of healthy, smart and gun-hungry Americans for the future. [/snark]

    But rq…they don’t want smart Future Americans! They want the gullible kind that believe what they’re told, and never even consider thinking otherwise.
    </bigger snark>
    “There’s always a bigger snark!”

    Tony, I join you in mourning those lost 4 hours.
    *doffing hat*

    I can’t be the first to point out https://twitter.com/overlyhnstmthds , yet I haven’t seen it mentioned.

    I know that someone mentioned it, ’cause I’ve got it bookmarked and check it on weekdays, and I think I first saw it mentioned here. Maybe about a month ago???

  238. ImaginesABeach says

    I went and tried on a pair of the shoes Wendy Davis wore for her filibuster. I figured if they were comfortable enough for a 13 hour battle against the forces of evil, they would be ok for my 1 hour exercise workout. Unfortunately, the arch is in the wrong place for my foot.

  239. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    So my landlord has been kind of an ass the whole time I’ve lived here, but I just learned he’s actually breaking state law by requiring me to pay for the utilities for the whole building I live in, rather than just my apartment. He has to jump through several hoops and offer me a rent reduction if he does that. He is too much of a slumlord to ever have cared to look up the law, though. I was bothered but not too much by it until just now when the neighbors asked me to turn on the a/c. I hate a/c and not just because it’s expensive as hell. So I feel pissed off and kind of hampered by not wanting to cause a fuss (damn you socialization) even though as I type this I realize that raising a fuss to safeguard tenant rights is literally my job…I wish I could advocate as well for myself in any area as I am able to for other people.


  240. says

    *hugs* Laws like that are not nearly well enough enforced, due to a combination of underfunded enforcement agencies, insufficient penalties when enforcement does occur, and tenants living on the edge who can’t risk unofficial retaliation for reporting, and often don’t know the relevant law anyway.

  241. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Thanks, Dalillama. *hugs* Unofficial retaliation is one of my worries. And the guy just sort of intimidates me…by being tall and verbally both forceful and dismissive. You’re right about enforcement and penalties…one of my pro bono projects is showing up at the eviction court dates and helping low income tenants as much as I can to know the law and enforce and penalize violations. I hope I can figure out a good solution to the problem, and soon. I feel like saying “you’re breaking the law, dude” is the nuclear option. I dunno.

    I’m going to watch a documentary with my mom and turn in. Night.

  242. hotshoe, now with more boltcutters says

    Just felt a mag 4.1 earthquake, centered about 10km from the house, of course no damage but a noisy little shock.
    My heartbeat’s back to normal but I might have trouble falling asleep tonight.

  243. says

    Aha! PZ is gone and the final component has arrived! Hastily, I open the box, excited that I may finish construction at long l—! Oooh. BUBBLE WRAP!”

    Omniscient narrator–“go take a long break folks. Yes, bubblewrap. It has been proven to be more distracting than kittens, puppies, cephalopods, and even…bunnies. The one thing science and religion agree upon.”

    2 hours later…

    ::unwraps the blueprints for diabolical doomsday device::

    “With this last piece, I can assemble my device and it was all done under the very nose of the Poopyhead Alpha (no need to worry about the *other* one…we have arranged for an all expense paid vacation to a destination of his choice. What…? I’m sinister not evil. Poophead Omega has earned a vacation. Besides, I will countenance no one standing in the way of my goals).”

    ::begins twirling non existent Snidley Whiplash inspired mustache until caught by…HEY!::

    We interrupt this broadcast for an important PSA to be mentally broadcast over the intertubes of anyone who ventures to Pharyngula (or, alternately Missed Connections on Craigslist, bc that is teh shiznit)–

    “As the future benevolent dictator of the northernmost region of FTB, it is unseemly for one of my intellect to sully my hands performing manual labor. I need…an ASSISTANT (plus monologuing about my plans for conquest is so von Doom-ish). ”

    Now seeking lab assistant with unwavering, unquestioning loyalty to me.

    Must be willing to work long hours overnight, lift @ 54.32 lbs and listen attentively to my every word. Your payment will come in the form of cheese. Or a horse. Your choice. Must be able to recite the following line with exuberance for the task and fealty to none, save moi:

    “Gee Mr. Shoop, what do you want to do tonight?”
    ::glances in the corner of the Lounge, cracks his knuckles, pops his neck, dons his monocle and cape and begins to laugh diabolically::

    omniscient narrator-
    “As the Brain our hero cackles ominously, he misses the invoice for the last component of his diabolical doomsday device, which states:
    “We make no guarantee that the Uranium P-32 Space Modulator will function properly. We at ACME are here for the gags, not world conquest.”

    To be continued…

  244. Pteryxx says

    hey, ImaginesABeach, good to see you back.

    I went and tried on a pair of the shoes Wendy Davis wore for her filibuster. I figured if they were comfortable enough for a 13 hour battle against the forces of evil, they would be ok for my 1 hour exercise workout.

    Amazon reviews for Wendy Davis sneakers

    With headings like “Excellent Protection for the Foot and Womb!,” “Marathon shoe for marathon filibustering,” and “Better Than Kitten Heels for Outrunning the GOP,” Davis devotees have cleverly expressed their support for abortion rights and their appreciation for the politician who took a stand for them. A few particularly inventive favorites include:

    If you live in North Dakota, make sure you purchase these within the first six weeks of your running program or you will be prohibited from purchasing them. It’s for the safety of the shoes.

    Love the color and the fit…but would like to see an elephant pattern on the bottom; it would improve the traction!

    And a one-star review reading:

    Even though…

    1) I am a man and these are clearly women’s shoes
    2) I have never gone through the experience of wearing them
    3) These shoes are not designed for my feet; and
    4) They are of a color I would never wear…

    I feel somehow compelled to decide for the shoe’s female target market whether or not they should own them.

    See also:

    10 Reasons You Should Love Wendy Davis (meme pics)

    and if there has to be just one image, it’s this: (tumblr link)

  245. says

    Hi there
    Wish me luck, today is #1’s routine medical examination so she can start school. I’ve packed things she made to show how far advanced she is intellectually.
    And I promise that when this is over I’ll be less of a self-centred prick ;)

    Fun story about bodily autonomy:
    #1’s been talking about wanting earrings. I told her that now at 6 years I consider her old enough to make that decission herself.
    But I was going to be honest with her and give her the facts:
    -Having your ears pierced hurts. Not super-super-mega-giga-much, but it hurts.
    -The holes stay there even if she should decide to stop wearing earrings.
    Result: “I don’t want to have my ears pierced. Ever.”

  246. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Initial thought: it seems to suffer from that annoying fallacy neurotypicals are prone to that the only reason anyone ever fails to do something they’re supposed to is that they don’t really think it’s important. It seems to just take as a given that if you can convince a kid that staying calm and not “overreacting” to unexpected difficulties is desirable that they’ll automatically know how to make themselves a black box that produces the desired output.

    Will read in depth tomorrow.

  247. rq says

    Never mind, I wandered around that site. A bit too much reliance on god for my tastes.

  248. rq says

    And that, too.
    Casually dismissing anything that’s not neurotypical.
    I sensed a strong undercurrent of “if you can’t discipline them, you’re doing it wrong”.

  249. carlie says


    rq- it’s an interesting contrast with the visualization I’ve seen most often with kids who are having trouble adapting and “going with the flow” and keeping from having meltdowns. The one I’ve seen is for the kid to picture themselves as a volcano, or as a glass of soda that is filling up. Every thing that is annoying to them is another bit of heat in the volcano (or pour into the glass) until it is too full and the eruption/overflow occurs. They are then encouraged to think of ways to lower the liquid level themselves by calming techniques, but more importantly, to recognize when the levels are getting too high and trying to remove some of the causes that are pouring in – that is, to walk away from the frustrating situation, to ask for more notice that change is about to happen, etc. The crux of the concept is that their job is to help themselves control the total amount of frustration being put into their system so that a meltdown doesn’t occur.

    With the pipe cleaner example, the only thing I see from that is “you must bend to the will of everyone else”. That’s not really helpful, and takes all of the agency of the kid away. They don’t have to understand themselves and how they react to the world and work to navigate it, they just have to be willing to bend under the pressure of everyone else. :(

  250. says

    Stephanie and Ed blogging about Time editorials’ response to the criticism writer Joe Klein received for disparaging comments about secular humanists inspired me to fire off a letter to express my disapproval (a first for me):

    Members of Time editorial,

    One of the fastest growing minority groups in the United States are the religious Nones. These are people who regard themselves as atheist, agnostic, humanist, secularist, and anti-theist:

    ” According to the American Religious Identification Survey, the percentage of Americans affiliating with no religion has climbed from 8% in 1990, to 15% to 2008. In part, this growth is no doubt due to increased organizational efforts among the religiously unaffiliated. Although factions like atheists, agnostics, and secularists can sometimes differ in their emphases, they have adopted similar strategies in harnessing the media and introducing their aims to the public. Still, nonbelievers face a major challenge: they are one of the most widely distrusted and politically powerless groups in American society.” [1]

    Overcoming the distrust, disdain, and quite often, hatred directed at us for the “crime” of using science, logic, and evidence to reach conclusions about the universe–rather than untestable claims treated as universal truths– is difficult enough a task without the media making false or inaccurate claims about us. A recent article in your magazine had the opportunity to showcase the Nones as having the compassion, empathy, and desire to help their fellow humans in the wake of tragedy. Instead, the article by Joe Klein presented the following falsehood:
    “…-funny how you don’t see organized groups of secular humanists giving out hot meals.”

    Leaving aside the need to make such a gratuitous comment in an article about helping returning troops find purpose in community service groups, the falsehood could have easily been corrected with a simple Internet search.

    ” FreeOK has also been active in other ways. They teamed with Panera Bread and Krispy Kreme to get breakfast to cemetery clean-up volunteers with Frontline Church in Moore, and to volunteers working through the Moore Community Center in the first week of response. They will continue to host volunteer drives in the outlying areas needing assistance in the coming weeks, like many local church organizations. The Red Dirt Party Bus, also owned by a secularist, has been used to run bulk donations around OKC and to distribution centers like the famously generous Grandad’s Bar on NW 23rd in OKC and out to Shawnee and Bethel Acres.”[2]

    The specific point Klein brought up-secular orgs not giving out hot meals-is flat out wrong. Several readers caught this and corrected him. His response:

    ” …it is certainly true, as my critics point out, that secular humanists, including atheists, can be incredibly generous. I never meant to imply they weren’t. But they are not organized.”

    This is baffling. Having been corrected on his falsehood, Klein opts to double down (and the undercurrent of disdain for the non-religious is hard to miss). On a technical level, no, FreeOK is not an organization (although Klein had not given a definition of the word in his original piece. It does not take a huge stretch of the imagination to consider FreeOK an organization):
    ” What is FreeOK?

    FreeOK is Oklahoma’s only freethought convention. This fun and educational day features a series of lectures on topics related to freethought and its community from known freethinkers of various backgrounds.” [3]

    It is a convention held each year by likeminded individuals who share a common interest in Freethought. Several of those individuals chose to assist in the relief efforts following the devastating tornadoes. Klein’s follow up comments place more emphasis on relief efforts being organized, leading one to the conclusion that his emphasis is on relief _organizations_ who provide hot meals. That appears to be a valid point until one remembers that his original article was about returning troops finding a sense of purpose by community activism. His article is decidely _not_ about returning troops finding a sense of purpose by joining organizations that deliver hot food.
    Moreover, his follow up comments made no mention of secular organizations delivering hot food. Rather, he seems to grudgingly accept that secular humanists can be generous, but we are not organized.
    This is another falsehood which can be dispelled with a simple Internet search.

    -Team Rubicon, the organization he applauded for their wonderful efforts is secular.
    -Foundation Beyond Belief funded Team Rubicons relief efforts and has raised more than $400,000 for the Leukemia and Lymphona Society in 2012.
    -Money, time, and effort [following the deadly tornadoes] was also given by Atheists Giving Aid, the Atheist Community of Tulsa, Oklahoma Atheists, and more.

    It is patently untrue that secular humanist and atheist organizations do not offer aid to communities in need. In an article discussing ways for returning troops to find purpose in life, the least Klein should have done is omit his ignorant jab at a minority group that does the very thing he denies. Especially since the absence or presence of religion in service groups for returning troops was not what Klein was discussing.

    At this point, Klein’s shifted the goalposts several times, which is aggravating in its dishonesty. His most recent comments about writing an article on the _decline_ of secular service organizations betrays his ignorance yet again. He couldn’t be bothered to doublecheck his first falsehoods, how can he be certain secular service organizations are declining? After all, a growing number of Americans are nonbelievers. Many of them are highly interested and active in community service.

    Another point of contention in all of this has been the response of the editorial staff of Time:

    ” Service can and will save us if it becomes a way of life,” wrote reader Stephen Holt about Time’s July 1 cover story by Joe Klein, which examines organizations that use service projects as a way to help veterans recover from trauma. Many readers were upset by Klein’s comment about secular humanists, who he said are less likely than members of religious groups to organize for disaster relief.”

    The above response not only dishonestly rewrites Klein’s statements (he never made that comment), it does so and treats the secular readership with contempt. We are capable of re-reading Klein’s comments. They are easy to see. We know he never made that statement. You may dislike the conclusions we have reached about the world around us, but you display a lack of journalistic integrity by warping the statements made by one of your writers to make another jab at the Secular Community. This is unacceptable from a news source many readers trust to be truthful. The magazine has a long history and is respected by many for its journalistic integrity. The criticism before Klein and Time editorial is not controversial. It is a matter of approaching this topic with the least amount of bias and engaging the Secular Community with honesty. For such a long standing cultural icon, honesty in journalism should be an ever present core value.


    (one in a growing number of non-believers in the United States)

    [1] http://harvardpolitics.com/covers/religion-in-america/rise-of-the-nonbelievers/

    [2] http://www.reddirtreport.com/Story.aspx/25721

    [3] http://freeok.org/about/

  251. Dr Pepper says

    @silomowbray, sans frottage pour la douche

    I hope you see this. A book i have fond memories of is “Pagoo” by Holling Clancy Holling. It presents the lifecycle of a hermit crab in a personalized form. I found it an easy and thoroughly engrossing read at 8. The writing style is perfect for an inquiring child, not too technical but highly informative. The charming watercolor illustrations are informative too. And it’s full to bursting with science. There’s stuff on the physics and chemistry of the tidepool that Pagoo lives in along with descriptions of his fellow denizens and their relationships as he experiences and observes them. And his viewpoint changes as he grows from a pencil dot floating in the plankton to a fist sized adult. He has to deal with his pool being diluted by rainwater at one point and nearly drying up at another. And yes, there’s evolution in there, as another thread in thread in the story. I hate to sound newagey, but you might call the educational aspect of the book “holistic”. Best of all, it never uses scary words like “evolution” “environmentalism”, “ecology”, “mutuality”, “interdependence”, etc. so you can even give it to the child of a fundamentalist. Just say it is about the wonders of creation.

    Here it is: http://www.amazon.com/Pagoo-Holling-C/dp/0395539641

  252. rq says

    Reminds me of the Dave Eggers story, There Are Some Things He Should Keep to Himself.

  253. dianne says

    Oh, no. It actually has nothing to do with women. They are trying to preserve the sex lives of wealthy white men.

    But to be able to absolutely guarantee an active sex life for wealthy STRAIGHT white men, they need to control women. I think that on some level they understand that they are advocating slavery and rape, but can’t quite bring themselves to admit that consciously and use “save the babeez!” as a way of making themselves feel better about what they do.

  254. rq says

    I like your method much better. And thanks for the insight on this, sometimes I have a hard time pin-pointing exactly why an ‘amazing’ method seems just a bit wrong.
    Actually, I have the Horde to thank for many of those ‘instinctual’ responses, and I am extremely grateful, because it means I have started to think more and evaluate better information presented to me as Amazing!!!.
    I have taken to trying to (mildly) debunk other people’s scientific claims – you know, when they post things about Everything you know about heart disease is wrong! or Eliminate all wheat from your diet!, I do a five-minute google and usually come up with more substantial information refuting the amazing-ness being pushed. Several friends (ok, let’s be honest – excepting Best Friend who always has something new, two) have already responded positively to my corrections.
    And I Thank the Horde Mosts Gratefully for having provided me with the mind-set that actually does so.

    Dr Pepper
    Thanks for that book suggestion, that sounds like something a lot of fun for my kids, too!

  255. Ogvorbis. Just plain Ogvorbis. No extras. says

    Reminds me of the Dave Eggers story, There Are Some Things He Should Keep to Himself.

    What in the name of the seven pluperfect levels of hell happened to the rest of my comment?

    What I wanted to share was that, somehow, I have ended up with 2 copies of Prothero’s After the Dinosaurs, a study of the Cenozoic mammalian radiation. Not sure why I have two.

    But to be able to absolutely guarantee an active sex life for wealthy STRAIGHT white men, they need to control women.

    I agree. But if they actually came out stated that the only way they can enjoy enslaving and raping women is to find a justification that passes the Faux test (will the social, economic and religious fundamentalists nod and agree with this vapid lie?). Everyone likes babies, right? Babies are good. So protecting babies, making sure that there are as many as possible, is a good thing, right? And baby-making straight sex (pleasurable for the man, don’t ask the women) makes babies so we have to make sure that straight white wealthy men can put their dicks in as many women as possible but we can’t let the women say no, or say they don’t want a baby, or get an abortion, or use birth control because if women can say no, the party is over for wealthy white straight men. Which is bad.

    In short, I agree, dianne.

  256. says

    Finally a sensible person…
    So, today is the day of good news:
    First: I don’t need glasses or anything. Source of my constantly red eyes is dryness, easily treated with artificial tears.

    Second: We had the appointment with the official pediatrcian whose opinion the stupid principal wants to hear before deciding matters. And what a wonderful, competent, sensible person who looked at the kid, looked at the things we’d brought, asked intelligent questions, agreed with out arguments and wrote the letter saying that she supports letting her start school “early”. Now the ball is in the principal’s half and if I don’t think she’s going to decide against parents, kindergarten AND official doctor.

  257. dianne says

    Babies are good. So protecting babies, making sure that there are as many as possible, is a good thing, right?

    I think there might be a dystopian story (hopefully not a dystopian future) in carrying this thought to its logical conclusion. Zygotes are alive. So are sperm. So are eggs. So…saying no is murder. This would actually be arguably more restrictive for men than for women since women can claim to be pregnant already or post menopausal or surgically sterile or not at the right point in their cycle to get out of sex whereas men can only claim to be sterile. And there’s a higher innate risk for men to challenge the claim than for women: Sperm cycle, IIRC, every 4 days. An ovulatory cycle is about a month long. That means that if a woman thinks that a man she has propositioned is lying she has a month to make her case in court and demand that he do his duty or be declared a murderer whereas a man only has 4 days in which to challenge a woman, making the risk of challenging her instead of going on to the next woman much higher. Especially since sex with an infertile woman would be murder, i.e. not giving the poor little sperm ANY chance of fertilizing an egg.

    Really, it makes as much sense as saying zygotes are people. Both zygotes and unfertilized gametes have unique human DNA. Both can, under the right circumstances, eventually become actual people–they require only a single additional step which is so trivially easy that we can make it happen in a petri dish. So if zygotes are people, surely sperm are too. Now, guys, about that mass murder you committed last night…

  258. rq says

    Mass murder, indeed – how many sperm (on average) per ejaculation? That’s a lot of misses. A lot of dead sperm people.

    I’m so glad to hear you met with a competent professional. I’ll keep holding thumbs that the principal listens to her point of view as well. Good luck!!

  259. dianne says

    rq: I’m hypothesizing that the logic would be that if you had sex you did your best and the loss of the rest of the sperm people would simply be inevitable. Sort of like pulling one person out of a burning building isn’t killing the rest (assuming you didn’t start the fire.) Honestly, from a logical point of view, I don’t see why this doesn’t work as well as the claim that zygotes are people. Sociologically, the problem is obvious: it would inconvenience men and put them at risk.

  260. says

    Matt Taibbi on All In with Chris Hayes: Rolling Stone link. Scroll down to watch video.

    Full article on the “The Last Mystery of the Financial Crisis” is here:


    Thanks to a mountain of evidence gathered for a pair of major lawsuits by the San Diego-based law firm Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, documents that for the most part have never been seen by the general public, we now know that the nation’s two top ratings companies, Moody’s and S&P, have for many years been shameless tools for the banks, willing to give just about anything a high rating in exchange for cash.

    In incriminating e-mail after incriminating e-mail, executives and analysts from these companies are caught admitting their entire business model is crooked.

    “Lord help our fucking scam . . . this has to be the stupidest place I have worked at,” writes one Standard & Poor’s executive. “As you know, I had difficulties explaining ‘HOW’ we got to those numbers since there is no science behind it,” confesses a high-ranking S&P analyst. “If we are just going to make it up in order to rate deals, then quants [quantitative analysts] are of precious little value,” complains another senior S&P man. “Let’s hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of card[s] falters,” ruminates one more….

    A triple-A rating is to the financial world what the USDA seal of approval is to a meat-eater, or virginity is to a Catholic. It’s supposed to be sacrosanct, inviolable: According to Moody’s own reports, AAA investments “should survive the equivalent of the U.S. Great Depression.”

    It’s not a stretch to say the whole financial industry revolves around the compass point of the absolutely safe AAA rating. But the financial crisis happened because AAA ratings stopped being something that had to be earned and turned into something that could be paid for. …

  261. says

    Tony @306

    Lynna @295:
    Does that mean gun nuts are going to start hoarding classic cars?

    LOL. It does mean that Edward Snowden should shop for a classic car.

  262. says

    Ogvorbis @316

    Don’t you remember a few years ago when Obama forced through that commienazi bill that helped people get rid of old and inefficient automobiles and trucks. See, even back then Obama knew that he’d be able to hack into cars and control our thoughts through the use of transmission fluid. Thought transmission fluid, that is.

    You do realize what you’ve done, right? This conspiracy theory is tailor made for Glenn Beck and Alex Jones. From there, it will go viral. Look for the Ogvorbis Theory coming to your Faux News media soon.

  263. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    The one I’ve seen is for the kid to picture themselves as a volcano, or as a glass of soda that is filling up. Every thing that is annoying to them is another bit of heat in the volcano (or pour into the glass) until it is too full and the eruption/overflow occurs.

    Do you have any suggestions for how to explain to allistics that this HAPPENS and that willfully pretending that whatever angry response they get is a (disproportionate, of course) reaction ONLY to the most recent thing, in isolation, is basically gaslighting?

  264. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Been out of country (and offline) since Monday, and now I’m completely ‘rupt!

    I have no idea what’s been going on with all you people, but I hope all is fine. I did catch the news that Giliell’s #1 will probably be starting school this year, so YAY! for that.

  265. Ogvorbis says

    Look for the Ogvorbis Theory coming to your Faux News media soon.

    [Walks innocently away from the scene while whistling Little Deuce Coup.]

    My work here is done.

  266. Pteryxx says

    Babies are good. So protecting babies, making sure that there are as many as possible, is a good thing, right?

    *warning, because this is going to be horrible, bleak and incoherent*

    The way I see it, it’s not about the babies, or the sex. We keep arguing against rape culture by saying ‘hello, women LIKE sex too, be nice and everyone can get laid more as they wish it!’ which is true, but the rape apologists couldn’t care less. Similarly, the antis don’t care about healthy happy babies – nothing for prenatal care, nothing for wanted children, nothing about aborting doomed fetuses or preserving women’s fertility; we’ve been over and over this.

    Whenever the abortion fight comes up again, I keep hearing what I was told in fundie school: Let women die in childbirth; that is what they are for. They cleaned it up a little for the kiddies, but that is really what these people think. Women aren’t people, just ablative facsimiles of people. I saw the horror on my female classmates’ faces when a trusted adult teacher (a woman, even) told the class their God-given duty was to have babies no matter the cost and dying in the effort was praiseworthy. (Also bullshit like it wasn’t as bad as they show it on TV and women only scream *as if* in pain because they don’t know what’s happening and that frightens them. That BS goes back to the discovery (and withholding, still common today) of anesthetic.)

    Torturing women IS the goal. That’s my impression. Saving babies is just an excuse to call women murderers and thus provide cover for hatred of them and anyone who tries to stand up for them. Rape has never been about getting sex, but about having the power to break other people and do it in plain sight and still get away with it. And forced pregnancy is about watching women suffer and beg for help before it’s too late. Remember how Republicans on the Texas floor laughed and played games while Davis was giving testimony that brought half the audience to tears? I don’t believe for a minute that they were just blocking it out or not paying attention. They come from the same place as those church members orgasming in ecstasy over lurid descriptions of the torments of Hell. People have fetishes about this stuff. They WANT to hear women tell how much they suffer.

    Davis’s filibuster was heroic, but to the haters watching, they just got to physically and mentally torture an outspoken woman, in public and on camera, with nothing but a set of rules and privilege. Everyone familiar with the rules going into it knew that Perry would just call another special session and it wouldn’t be a permanent win, including Wendy Davis. All these abortion restrictions and indignities and re-victimizations aren’t really about shutting down Planned Parenthood, because they know desperate people with uteri will do anything to not be pregnant anymore. Pregnancy’s a convenient, built-in vulnerability that can be exploited, like parenting a child, or falling in love, or having to breathe.

    What Wendy Davis really accomplished with that filibuster, and also the accomplishment of the crowds that showed up and joined in and became her posse, was a daylighting of how low and corrupt, how founded in lies and hatred and contempt, the anti-reproductive-choice side really is. Word is starting to get out about rape culture, and about sexual harassment, and about racism. What is going to happen to the narratives about abortion?

  267. Ogvorbis says

    dianne and Pterryx:

    My bit about ‘babies are good, yadda yadda,’ was an attempt to show how anti-woman legislation is packaged as pro-baby in order to fool the faithful, it was not an actual argument on my part. honest.

  268. says

    Off-topic … usually lurker, but I had a question. I read a number of FTB blogs regularly, though Pharyngula is my favorite. What do people here think of the FTB blog Heteronorrnal Patriarchy for Men? I find it disturbing and a little bit WATM, even though I am a supporter of actions taken to prevent the massive numbers of rapes perpetrated on men in the military, as well as on women. (Men are still the vast majority of perpetrators in the military, victimizing both men and women.) I also feel our culture damages men as it does women, setting up impossible standards and demanding certain behaviors for both sexes. So I don’t think I’m unreasonable on the subject.

    Does anyone else have a feeling about this? I had a bad taste in my mouth the first time I looked at it.

  269. Pteryxx says

    Ogvorbis, I know you don’t. I just needed to vent, as the National Right to Life convention is going on in my back yard and I’m gearing up for the special session on Monday.

  270. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I find it disturbing and a little bit WATM, even though I am a supporter of actions taken to prevent the massive numbers of rapes perpetrated on men in the military, as well as on women. (Men are still the vast majority of perpetrators in the military, victimizing both men and women.) I also feel our culture damages men as it does women, setting up impossible standards and demanding certain behaviors for both sexes. So I don’t think I’m unreasonable on the subject.

    Isn’t the objection to “WATM” that even when the actual points being made are valid they’re injected into feminist discussions with the effect of hijacking them, and that people genuinely trying to fight the effects of patriarchy on men should set up their own spaces? And now that’s happening, and there’s still complaints…?

  271. Pteryxx says

    Cicely reported it first – “How to report harassment at conferences, a first-person account” – but now someone I greatly admire, Mary Robinette Kowal, has broken the veil and named the harasser; and Stephanie Zvan is joining her along with others. This person’s wall is crumbling.

    From MRK’s blog:

    Back in 2010, while I was still VP of SFWA, I served as a conduit for a woman who had been sexually harassed by an editor to anonymously contact his employer. She didn’t feel safe doing so directly because she was afraid it would affect her career. You see that, right? The power that concern gave the editor over her? The publisher took it very seriously, and due to that the woman felt safe in speaking to a representative directly.

    Apparently, that doesn’t count as a formal complaint because it wasn’t to Human Resources or to the Legal Department. So, here we are in 2013 and Elise Matheson was harassed by the same man at a convention. When she made a report, she was told it was the first one.

    She’s written up an account of her reaction and how to go about making a formal report of sexual harassment. Read on. Please.

    Part of Elise’s account:

    If you choose to report, I hope this writing is useful to you. If you’re new to the genre, please be assured that sexual harassment is NOT acceptable business-as-usual. I have had numerous editors tell me that reporting harassment will NOT get you blacklisted, that they WANT the bad apples reported and dealt with, and that this is very important to them, because this kind of thing is bad for everyone and is not okay. The thing is, though, that I’m fifty-two years old, familiar with the field and the world of conventions, moderately well known to many professionals in the field, and relatively well-liked. I’ve got a lot of social credit. And yet even I was nervous and a little in shock when faced with deciding whether or not to report what happened. Even I was thinking, “Oh, God, do I have to? What if this gets really ugly?”

    But every time I got that scared feeling in my guts and the sensation of having a target between my shoulder blades, I thought, “How much worse would this be if I were inexperienced, if I were new to the field, if I were a lot younger?” A thousand times worse. So I took a deep breath and squared my shoulders and said, “Hell, yes, use my name.” And while it’s scary to write this now, and while various people are worried that parts of the Internet may fall on my head, I’m going to share the knowledge — because I’m a geek, and that’s what we do.


    MLK’s followup: Why am I afraid to name the editor

    Zvan corroborates: Let me tell you a story

  272. Pteryxx says

    Jim C. Hines’s post on the above.


    How to Report Sexual Harassment, by Elise Matthesen

    ETA: Elise has said she’s comfortable with the following comment being shared. “My name is Sigrid Ellis. I was one of the co-hosts of the party Elise mentions. The person Elise reported for harassment is James Frenkel.” (Source)

    I am beyond furious.

    In 2010, in response to a series of specific incidents involving an editor in the community, I posted a list of resources for Reporting Sexual Harassment in SF/F. A number of people made reports about this individual.

    I thought those reports had made a difference. I was wrong.

    What follows is an account and essay from Elise Matthesen describing the process of reporting an incident that took place this year at Wiscon. While I’m not in a position to name names on my blog, I will say that the individual in question is the same one I was hearing about in 2010.

    I ended up speaking to this person a while after I wrote that original blog post. He seemed genuinely contrite and regretful. I thought … I hoped … that he had learned, and that he would change his behavior.

    I was wrong.

    From what I’ve learned, nothing changed. Because the reports weren’t “formally documented,” this person was able to go on to harass other women.

    Please read Elise’s essay. I’ve bolded one section about filing a formal report. If you’re aware of the situation and want to do so, I’ll be happy to do whatever I can to help hook you up with the appropriate contacts.

    My thanks to Elise for her relentless work on this.

  273. dianne says

    Oggie, don’t worry, I understand that you’re just describing the argument, not making it! Sorry that wasn’t clear.

  274. Ogvorbis says

    dianne and Pterryx:

    Okay. All is good. I wasn’t sure based on your expansions. My bad.


    This example of multiple harassment being dismissed as a first time because the complaint was not laid on formally is yet another example of why a published and well-thought-out harassment policy is a really good idea. Especially if that policy shows how, where, and to whom one makes a complaint and how the complaint is documented.

    One of the things that allows serial predators to thrive is this idea that, unless the complaint is made formal, it never happened. Unless the complaint was made to the same group as the one running this convention, it never happened. Or, to steal a line from the Vaculous one, unless the police are called, it never happened. By the time a formal complaint is finally made, the predator may have harassed, or raped, hundreds — but these were hundreds of isolated incidents and each complainant was making the first complaint about the predator. Bleah.

  275. Pteryxx says

    Ogvorbis: I know, I know, or at least I THOUGHT I knew, but I didn’t have it sunk into my heart with steel pitons like it is now. Mostly I was just raging over at Stephanie’s, as I have been one of those volunteers with the power to help if only I knew. Damn them (predators) for hoodwinking all of us.

    Or, to steal a line from the Vaculous one, unless the police are called, it never happened.

    I thought they were making a fallacious argument, not describing their day-to-day mode of operation! FUCK

  276. Ogvorbis says

    I thought they were making a fallacious argument, not describing their day-to-day mode of operation! FUCK

    No idea if they are serious or not, but their normal attitude is that, unless someone is a police officer, they cannot enforce any policy. Which is bullshit (I do it at forest fires) on multiple levels.

  277. Pteryxx says

    Oh gods.

    Elizabeth Moon
    June 28th, 2013 at 12:47 pm · Reply

    Thanks to Elise for this report, and to Jim Hines for the space and for the previous advice on how to report.

    I thank Elise particularly for her recognition that some women will not be, or feel, safe reporting an incident and need support, not criticism, for their decision. Autonomy is threatened by the incident itself; it’s not OK to threaten it more.

    I’m living proof that being older and less physically attractive does not prevent harassment, and that a woman well into her forties and fifties can “freeze” just as easily as a young woman. Experience doesn’t always come with age–it comes with exposure to the wrong people. Also deep past experience of related behaviors can cause the shock and mental freeze, esp. if there’s been no good intervention. (Things changed for me with some therapy after something unrelated to SF conventions. At least they feel changed, and as I’m going to fewer conventions, there’s less exposure to the wrong people–though I have a little list of those I will never share an elevator with.)

    June 28th, 2013 at 1:33 pm · Reply

    If there were only one person in the world you were unwilling to share the elevator with for that reason, it would already be enough to make me feeling ashamed for our society. The necessity to use “list” in that context is beyond what i could imagine for a long time.

    Link to comment

  278. Dr Pepper says


    Every Sperm is sacred
    Every Sperm is great
    When a Sperm is wasted
    God gets quite irate!

  279. Pteryxx says

    what is this I don’t even. Could someone with spoons pass this along as appropriate?

    via BoingBoing

    Abortions do happen in Catholic hospitals – they just aren’t called that

    Maggie Koerth-Baker at 8:49 am Fri, Jun 28, 2013
    The most dangerous time to be a woman in need of a life-saving abortion at a Catholic hospital is right after that hospital has been consolidated into a Catholic system, according the medical demographer Dr. Diana Foster. That’s because doctors with more experience in the Catholic system are more likely to secretly offer therapeutic abortions under the table, and get away with it.

    Links to: Reproductive care in Catholic hospitals: The new underground railroad

  280. Dr Pepper says

    @Beatrice (looking for a happy thought):

    Been out of country (and offline) since Monday, and now I’m completely ‘rupt!

    I have no idea what’s been going on with all you people

    Um, some guy with a funny last name wrote a big rambling poem for you.

  281. rq says

    I haven’t been so scared for my life since last childbirth.
    [/driving old broken cars on the highway in the rain after sunset]

  282. carlie says


    Marianne Kirby gives us four smutty books about shapeshifters to get our minds off of all the badness. One is called “Someone to Cuttle”, another is “Eight Arms to Hold You”. (both of those are gay erotica; there are two others that are het)

    Sorry I’m not up on everything. Today was something and then some. We had major flooding from all the rain, and when it gets this bad my part of town is all but cut off from everywhere else. I had a glaucoma post-check this morning and a 10 minute drive took over half an hour with rerouting. Most of the villages were under state of emergency orders by 10am, and when Spouse went to try to retrieve Child 1 from his overnight visit at a friend’s house (also via a 3x longer route), he got a flat tire. And our mechanic was underwater and closed, and the tire place had been almost underwater and was still open but the main road to them was closed, (and the side road still had about 6-8 inches of water on the road from everyone pumping out their basements) and the spare tire was rusted in place so we had to call a tow, and Spouse missed his physical therapy appt waiting around on it, and argh. Rain has held off today, so hopefully I can get to the house where I’m catsitting for the evening. We’re very lucky that we only got a few gallons’ worth of water in the basement, and it was a couple of days ago, and we caught it as it was happening so were able to cope with it as it was coming in and kept it from spreading everywhere.

  283. says

    Here’s another whistle-blower revelation about the banking industry. This one provides details regarding how Bank of America hits people who are down, struggling homeowners.

    Last week, I detailed bombshell revelations from Bank of America whistle-blowers, in which former employees of the bank detailed systematic fraud and deceptive practices inside their loan modification department — including bonuses and Target gift cards for staff who racked up foreclosures.

    Now, another new lawsuit, featuring a separate whistle-blower, contains additional remarkable revelations – and may shed light on Bank of America’s strategy in getting out from under the mountain of legal exposure and costs in which it now finds itself. Simply put, the bank seeks to pocket quick cash and evade practices set forth in major settlements – by cashing out of the subprime mortgage servicing business. The result would be to leave struggling homeowners back at square one, with even fewer protections to avoid foreclosure….


  284. carlie says

    Clarification: I’m not personally endorsing any of those books, I just think it’s hilarious that someone wrote cuttlefish shapeshifter erotica.

  285. says


    I don’t read the website that way at all. But thanks so much for your very thoughtful reply, which employed a sarcastic question instead of actually engaging me in conversation.

  286. says

    Welcome from de-lurking sueinnm. I’ll try not to be too harsh (being the lounge and you being newly delurked), but … Ah, I’m not sure that Azkyroth‘s reply is that out of line. Complaining that a blog named “Heteronorrnative Patriarchy for Men” is a “little bit WATM” seems, well, pushing too hard. I’ve read a few articles there, and yeah there is a WATM vibe at times, but how about your respond to Azkyroth’s point … isn’t that a safe space for those people who want to discuss WATM? They’re not intruding on other discussions, you can ignore them, so what’s your beef? Ally Fogg’s “About the author” says:

    This blog is dedicated to exploring gender issues from a male perspective, unshackled from any dogmatic ideology. Ally is often accused of being a feminist lapdog and an anti-feminist quisling; a misogynist and a misandrist; a mangina and a closet MRA, and concludes that the only thing found in pigeonholes is pigeon shit.

    Sounds to me like the focus quite clearly encompasses WATM.

    Like I’ve said, I’ve read a few articles. Wasn’t particularly impressed by the posts or the followup discussions. Yeah, he has some good points (but not enough to hold my interest) and some not-so-good ones (but then again everyone get things wrong sometimes), and it’s a bit too infested w/ slymies so I don’t seek it out and I only visit when what looks like an interesting post passes my RSS.

    So what conversation do you want to have about it? That you find it a bit skeevy? That Ally is “blogging wrong”? [shoulder-shrug]

  287. says

    Not to say that I’m ever impressed by anyone declaring themselves “unshackled from any dogmatic ideology”. [eyeroll] Yeah, like “I’m shackled by my dogmatic ideology and proud of it” is heard all the time. And “both sides hate me, so I must be right” thrown in? A little too close to this xkcd. [eyeroll]

  288. Ogvorbis says

    Boy just composed the ultimate Haiku:

    “Five syllables here,
    Seven syllables down here.
    Are you happy now?”

  289. says

    Having read your response ad well as Azkyroth’s, I find myself in agreement with both of you.
    I think HPfM has the stench of MRAdom all over it. However, Ally Fogg frequently seems to skirt the edge of the MR movement. Some of his writing is very feminist, beyond what MRA’s occasionally pay lip service to (his current multi part series addressing the concerns some men have and whether or not they are legitimate is one ecample of walking a very thin line). He accepts and believes in patriarchy and various forms of privilege.
    …and yet
    …and yet
    There is a quality to his writing that bothers me. Perhaps it is a bias I have against arguments that bear similarities to MRA talking points. Perhaps my apprehension is misplaced.

    But then I remember that he allows the Slymepitters on his blog. Somewhere amingst all the muck those dirtbags spew there probably is a decent bone on a good day (after all, humans have capacity for disgusting acts of evil as well as compassion; and our actions often lay along a spectrum of right and wrong). I cannot say that they are the absolute worst humans ever.

    That said, the vast majority of comments I have seen from them have been hateful, harassing, bullying, and misogynistic. Whatever qualities of decency or compassion they may have I HAVE NEVER SEEN.
    I detest their dismissal of harassment and concerns women face about sexism.
    I condemn the multi-year campaign of bullying and stalking they have engaged in.
    They deserve to be excoriated for the rape and death threats.
    I believe they are horrible at critical thinking, display a tremendous lack of self-awareness, and are overflowing with undeserved hubris.
    So yeah, I can see where Ally is coming from to an extent. I think there is room to genuinely discuss men’s issues–though that should never come at the expense of women. However between straddling the line between MRAdom and feminism. And he provides a platform for thosr elements in the movement actively engaged in harming women. So ultimately, while he might not be an MRA, his enabling of those shitheads overshadows any points he has. The phrase still applies—“the standard you walk past is the standard you accept”.

    As for Azkyroths comment, I agree with that too. There are people looking to discuss mens issues from a male perspective. I can accept that. My personal feelings are that a deep analysis of mens issues reveal them to be a result of our patriarchy, so dismantling the patriarchy will destroy those issues. Ally is attempting–I think–to provide a space for that discussion (kick out the Pitstains and any other harassers, then have the discussion. I will pay attention to you). I do not see the sarcastic response in Azkyroths comment, but then I have the two of us have interacted so my perspective is different than yours. Is it possible you misinterpreted?

    (I feel dirty making some of the above comments about the Slymers. I detest the lot of them. But just as calling Kermit Gosnell a monster ‘others’ him which has a dehumanizing effect, I will not treat the Pitters as if they are not human. And humans can perform feats of goid and evil. Those fuckfaces just enjoy wallowing in some of the worst attributes of humanity).

  290. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    There is a quality to his writing that bothers me. Perhaps it is a bias I have against arguments that bear similarities to MRA talking points.

    I think that is part of it, honestly; that and that he doesn’t necessarily use the kind of language feminists are accustomed to when talking about certain types of issues.

    I have not read the blog extensively, but while he does seem to get things wrong, some of the posts I’ve seen (the recent ones) have been largely cogent and have quite a bit I can agree with in them (though I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to find some elision involved in that), whereas stuff from the archives seems to have more getting things wrong in it.

    The comments sections do seem horrible.

  291. PatrickG says

    @ Tony:

    Ally is attempting–I think–to provide a space for that discussion

    That’s my take on it too. He’s pretty clear that he feels there really isn’t any such space in existence at the moment, and he’s not exactly shy about (mostly) blaming the MRA/MRM “activists”. I think he genuinely feels that it’s possible to carve out that space, by hosting it on a site friendly to, what, modern feminism while disclaiming his personal identification as such (i.e. his post on why he doesn’t identify as a feminist). Instant credibility! Or something.

    That said, I think he’s pretty obviously failing at actually creating that space. I’m honestly not sure what he’s trying to accomplish with his commenting/moderation policies. On the one hand, he eviscerates the more ridiculous proponents of MRA “thought” in the comment sections (my go-to example of this would be his evaluations of commenter Sid’s intelligence and character. Priceless!), but simultaneously allows those same commenters to hijack the threads into some very ugly and unproductive back-and-forths.

    Maybe he’s overly worried about freeze peach, or doesn’t want to get a reputation as a blog that bans people (the horror!), or maybe he just really thinks he can actually be a bridge across communities (if so, um, good luck with that). In any case, I don’t think he’ll actually manage to create his desired space until he manages to, as you say:

    kick out the Pitstains and any other harassers, then have the discussion.

    Yep. I’ve stopped reading the comments there because it inevitably becomes dominated by the idiots who see The Evil Feminists® as a world-conquering conspiracy to destroy True Manhood® through sinister governmental infiltration (A UK Minister for Women? Misandry! Tyranny! Pink-jack-booted thugs!). Sometimes that’s good for black-humor comic relief, but seriously, a little of that stupidity goes a very long way.

    @ Azkyroth:

    I’ve also noticed the difference between his recent writing and his archived material. Not just content, either. On one of those archived posts, I checked to make sure he hadn’t added a co-blogger, as the style was so markedly changed (or at least seemed that way to me).

  292. John Morales says


    Not to say that I’m ever impressed by anyone declaring themselves “unshackled from any dogmatic ideology”.

    There is no such declaration in that which you quoted.

    (The unshackled status refers to the exploration in his blog, not to his person)

  293. carlie says

    More in Politicians Being Fucking Awesome, this time in Congressional Oversight hearings:


    Tammy Duckworth, who lost both legs and had her arm sewn back on, mostly, lays it down. A businessman is called out. It seems his company got something like $500 million in contracts from the government, primarily because his company was a “small business, disabled veteran owned.” His disability? When he was in prep-school, he twisted his ankle playing football. The prep school was the one at Monmouth, which is the feeder for West Point, but if you come in from civilian life, it has no military obligation at all. …

    Representative Duckworth, who knows something about sacrifice to your nation, tears this man a new orifice. And I, for one, would ask that everyone, regardless of politics, forward the clip. This man, and those like him, hurt us.

  294. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, I’m sure I’m butchering dinner. The Redhead wanted red snapper in orange juice, garnished with oranges, red onions, white pepper, and garlic powder. The instructions are from a microwave that died a few years ago. (It was my first credit card purchase, and she swore up and down “I’m not using that”; she has eaten those words over the years, and it lasted over twenty years.) I have my fingers crossed….

  295. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I just read the commenting policy, and while I respect the prerogative to declare that his blog is not a safe space, the inclusion of the word “misandrist” without any apparent irony makes me side-eye him hard.

    Dinner sounds like it has great potential. Good luck : )

  296. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    (The unshackled status refers to the exploration in his blog, not to his person)

    This looks to me like a distinction without a difference. Is it? Or rather, would you care to elaborate if you think it’s a meaningful distinction?

  297. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Thanks for the link, John. I see where he’s coming from, but I think he misses several important sociological factors in his analysis. I’d read more of his stuff and suss out my responses, but I have unfortunately have spend more time on trial prep right now than stuff that’s actually interesting : /

  298. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Language, how does it work? Hope my cross exam is more coherent…

  299. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    There is no such declaration in that which you quoted.

    (The unshackled status refers to the exploration in his blog, not to his person)

    This is a distinction without a difference.

    I rolled my eyes at that bit too.

  300. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, dinner’s ready, but the Redhead is on the phone. Since that is her link to the world, I am helpless….

  301. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    I do not see the sarcastic response in Azkyroths comment, but then I have the two of us have interacted so my perspective is different than yours. Is it possible you misinterpreted?

    Nah, it’s cool. Over the weekend I got into a discussion about bullying and pointed out that even though the problem isn’t going away, the spread of awareness and discussion of it, and the cultural sense that bullying is a BAD thing and not just “part of life” or a rite of passage, is a hopeful sign. I used “women shouldn’t work outside the home” and “black people are less intelligent” as examples of other ideas that have become a lot less acceptable to express, and that this shows improvement even though there’s an entrenched problem that hasn’t gone away yet. At least one person around the campfire interpreted that as an endorsement of the two ideas in quotes and started getting angry.

    Apparently being cartoonishly misread is just something that happens to me. :(

  302. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says


    It might not be you. I sometimes have trouble telling when people (ok, mostly men) are serious or joking or like you were, giving an example of something they disagree with. It’s partly because I am guarded against people saying horrible things that they think are just true so the first place I go is “What’d you say?!” It’s a reaction I’m working on tempering.

    The worst is when people (ok, mostly men) say terrible things with a straight face just to get me going. Like, that becomes fairy indistinguishable to from real horribleness. /tangent

  303. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Tpyso on high, I humbly offer you many sacred offerings, that you may take mercy on my typing fingers in the future.

  304. John Morales says

    Portia @386 & Azkyroth @390, the relevant quotation is “This blog is dedicated to exploring gender issues from a male perspective, unshackled from any dogmatic ideology.”

    dontpanic interpreted this to mean that this (presumably implicitly) is a claim that the blog author personally is unshackled from any dogmatic ideology, in response to which I noted the claim was about the blog and not about its author.

    I expect you agree with me that a blog and its author are distinct entities, so the question becomes whether any given claim about a blog is tantamount to the same claim about its author; since you think there is no meaningful distinction between these claims, it follows you must think that the answer is ‘yes’.

    (Or, to put it differently, you imagine that it can’t be the case that a blog author is shackled by dogmatic ideology yet purposes a blog to be unshackled by dogmatic ideology*)

    * Note that intent and outcome need not be congruent.

  305. John Morales says

    Azkyroth, you must imagine PZ is prone to random biological ejaculations if you consider the distinction between he and his blog is a distinction without a difference.

  306. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Dang, overcooked the snapper slightly. Bad Nerd….

  307. John Morales says

    Azkyroth, indeed — and he sorta has three blogs (here, SB and Panda’s Thumb).

    Hmmm… you might have a point! ;)

  308. PatrickG says

    @ John Morales:

    Yes, I’ve seen his Comments on Comments. Perhaps I wasn’t clear above, but if he’s trying to create a space to actually talk about issues affecting men, his self-described anarchistic approach to commenting is almost guaranteed to ensure that space will never come about. It’s too prone to threadjacking and derailing. I don’t think that’s what he wants, but maybe I’m wrong.

    To illustrate: on his latest post, the second comment is strawfeminism, the third comment is someone bashing FTB in general and gleefully waiting for Ally to be set upon by angry feminists, and it goes on from there. And that thread doesn’t even have Sid in it yet(!), though it does have Schala demanding that everybody concede the Failure of Feminist Thinking before we’re even allowed to talk about the menz! Neat twist, that.

    Anyway, blog could benefit from some light moderation, imho. Maybe some open threads to allow the spiraling deathfights about feminism. Maybe invading the Thunderdome, or creating his own version of such. Something! Really I should be saying this there, to him… but I dislike making comments and then not following responses. Which more or less means that I typically just avoid his comment sections. Maybe another time.

    Anwyay, I’m dangerously close to whining that someone’s blog isn’t catering to me, so I’ll just shut up and stop cluttering the Lounge. :)

  309. mildlymagnificent says

    It’s partly because I am guarded against people saying horrible things that they think are just true so the first place I go is “What’d you say?!”

    I have an inclination to do a bit more than that. So it’s just as well I wasn’t at the club last night when mr was involved, predictably, in a conversation about Julia Gillard being replaced by Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister. Someone’s girlfriend was there, never met her before, and she remarked that it was “right” that a man should be doing that job. She now felt a lot more comfortable about how things were going. I’m afraid that I would have dropped the well-mannered veneer from my snarling feminist beneath if I’d been there.

  310. John Morales says

    mildlymagnificent, it irritates me that both Rudd and Abbott are so very pro-religiosity in public life.

    (Gillard may have been an appeaser, but he’s far worse than that)

  311. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    it irritates me that both Rudd and Abbott are so very pro-religiosity in public life.

    You mean it irritates you that “their statements and/or polices are so very pro-religiosity in public life.”

  312. mildlymagnificent says

    it irritates me that both Rudd and Abbott are ……

    …. pro-religion, sanctimonious, married-with-children, men. Rudd’s only saving grace is his changed view on marriage equality, which I’m not sure he would have come to if he’d kept the PM position all this time.

    I thought Gillard negotiated fairly deftly between the various rocks and hard places being an atheist woman living with her unmarried partner in the Lodge. Being polite about religion and publicly opposed to SSM while also having Penny Wong prominent in the cabinet and also a xtian in a same sex relationship with a child was about as far as she could go. I suspect she’d not have done any worse to go for broke on all fronts, but I’m not her and I don’t know whether she could have kept her supporting group together as long as she did if she’d gone that way.

  313. cicely says

    I haven’t been so scared for my life since last childbirth.
    [/driving old broken cars on the highway in the rain after sunset]

    OMFSM, rq, are you all right?
    Driving/riding in dangerously-malfunctional or flaming vehicles is my second most favoritest nightmare (right after the Giant Flaming Superspeed Tornado Swarms).
    *hugs* and *restorative beverages*

    *hugs&boozes* also for carlie. That does, indeed, sound like a right shitter of a day.
    On the brighter side, the mint plants are doing well; they’ve dropped the dried and damaged leaves and teeny tiny little fresh new ones are sprouting in their place. Thank you again for sending them to me!

    Ogvorbis: Tell Boy that he has Awesome Poetizing Skillz.

  314. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Hello all. I’ve not been around much lately because of stress and a general downturn in my ability to cope with, well, just about everything. Hugs and well wishes to all that need them.

    I’m just hoping that the polls are correct and Rudd’s return means at least a fighting chance to stop Abbott becoming PM.

    In other Australian news Chez Fishy is almost done.

    The only externally visible thing that will change before we move in is the installation of the solar hot water collector. You can see the frame for it at the back corner of the roof. We’re still waiting for the worm-farm septic to be completed as well.

    But we have power! It astounded me that our little house has 30 lights in total counted by bulb. Is it still a bulb if they’re leds? That reading is the draw when all the lights are on. It’ll get even better when we replace the halogen bulbs in the ceiling fan lights and the half dozen CF’s that were included in some of the fixtures with leds.

    The interior at night. One of the things that you can’t see is the led downlights reflect off the shiny floor and stipple the ceiling with a pattern that looks just like the reflections off of water, without the motion of course. I wasn’t keen on the shiny floor but that alone endears it to me.

    I think we’ll paint the beige bits of the shelves white, not sure why it ended up that colour. The black paint on the end and under the counter is blackboard paint. We’ll be using the end of the shelves for notes to each other and suchlike and under the counter is for The Small Fry to practice her art on. We no longer have a paved drive to draw on so this is the best substitute we could come up with.

    Now we just have to pay for it all.

  315. says

    Pretty ‘rupt, exhausted. Helped D move some of her things out, had to try to keep all calm while doing so. Failed partially due to conflicting need. Not in a good mood. Tired.

    rq, carlie

    Welcome back.

  316. Dr Pepper says

    I think that anyone who thinks that someone in some category that they belong to should have some rights restricted, should be free to restrict themself.

  317. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Thanks Dalillama. How are you going*? When last I lurked things seemed difficult but stable for you.

    *Annnd, my Aussification continues apace. I typed that without thinking about it. This would translate to “How are you doing?” in North Americanese.

  318. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says


    If that’s your power draw when every light in the house is on I’m very impressed, or a bit worried that you’re living in a shanty town on the outskirts of Millwoods.

  319. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    And then I read the part that isn’t addressed to me. Did I mention that my brain isn’t working well lately?

    Sorry Dalillama. I hope it gets better soon.

  320. John Morales says


    Is it still a bulb if they’re leds?

    They are called light-bulbs because they were bulb (onion-root) shaped glass containers enclosing an element that was made incandescent by an electric current.

    LED is an acronym for light-emitting diode, but I suppose if they’re bulbous then they’re still bulbs.

  321. says

    Thanks Dalillama. How are you going*? When last I lurked things seemed difficult but stable for you.

    Spent the day alternately repressing crying jags and failing to do so.

    *Annnd, my Aussification continues apace. I typed that without thinking about it. This would translate to “How are you doing?” in North Americanese.

    No worries, I can interpret most any dialect of English pretty well, especially in written form.

  322. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Ah, that’s the thing John, the LED down-lights are little discs that look nothing like onion bulbs. It seems to me that bulb has come to mean the element that produces light in a fixture regardless of shape. I’m wondering if this is one of those times where a word stays in usage despite now being archaic.

  323. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Azkyroth @405 – I laughed out loud.


    I am more rupt than I thought…hope rq is ok!

    *hugs* all around, I’m turning in. Tomorrow, Coast Guard’s gonna teach me how to pilot a rescue boat on this near-flood level, high-current, debris-filled, mile-wide river. Wish me luck.

  324. chigau (違う) says

    69°N 106°W is my current location.
    If I get too far away from the Source™, I lose the signal.

  325. cicely says

    *hugs* for FossilFishy.

    And *also hugs* for Dalillama, with added Moral Support.

    Good luck on Portia’s Wild Ride. It does not sound appealing—but then, I lack daring.

  326. John Morales says

    chigau, I see you’ve displaced yourself around 110 km in 39 minutes, indicating you’re travelling at around 170km/h.

  327. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    I was wondering if that was the case chigau. It’s a mark of scientific ignorance that it seemed reasonable to me that 69 newtons would be somehow equivalent to 106 watts. So, how’s the arctic?

    Thanks John. It’s been a long two years to get to this point. Another week and we’ll hopefully be moving in.

  328. says

    Hey FossilFishy glad to hear the house is close to done! You’re good people, you deserve a good place to park yourself and your peeps.

    Dalillama, I wish I could be helpful in some way. You’re an awesome person and you deserve more peace than you’re getting right now.

    rq I’m worried as fuck about you right now. We’ve been driving without brake or signal lights for a couple of weeks, but during the daytime. I can’t imagine how scared and unsafe you must feel right now.

  329. mildlymagnificent says

    Fossilfishy. House looks great. Do you have a moving day yet? Or would that be tempting fate.

    As for hoping to keep Abbot’s hands off the levers of power, I have the depressing feeling that Gillard’s “unpopularity” was attributable to a lot of people not saying out loud, but nevertheless holding, those views that mr’s lady friend was blurting last night, rather than rejecting her policies and strategies. (I might add that lady friend’s car was used to give him a lift home last night, but her manly man companion drove it.)

    Hugs all round for those needing or wanting.

  330. chigau (違う) says

    *checks notes*
    68° it is.
    Arctic is good so far, the flowers are blooming.

  331. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Thanks cicely. I’ll get through it as I always do. I often say that I have good coping strategies to deal with my depression, but really they mostly boil down to distraction. I do all the things that keep me from thinking too much until it passes. This works now where it didn’t when I was younger because I’m now capable of hanging on to the intellectual understanding that it will pass despite what my emotions are telling me. Shear* repetition has taught me that..

    Unfortunately one of the side effects of my depression is that I have to avoid places like this where there are people care about. Hearing their troubles and not having the spoons to even respond with an expression of sympathy leaves me feeling incredibly guilty.

    *that looks wrong.

  332. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    I’m considering ectomy-ing my gall bladder, with a spoon.

    I understand this desire completely but can’t in good faith recommend it. A surgeon would be a better idea, provided said gall bladder is still inside. After I recovered from the surgery, I felt much better with out my wretched, malfunctioning gall bladder. :D

  333. cicely says

    I would love to be able to have a surgeon remove mine.
    If I suddenly am no more to be seen here in the [Lounge], it’ll almost certainly be because that treacherous sumbitch has exploded, and taken me with it.

  334. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Thanks Joe. That’s really kind of you to say.

    I’m glad to see you around again. If for no other reason than us guitar folk need to represent yo! Speaking of which, I might have a gig tomorrow. Another Canadian ex-pat has arranged a Canada Day gig at the local fishing tackle/dvd rental store. I think I might go down and play the one classical guitar piece that I know that’s by a Canadian composer. Just to class it up a bit. ;)


    Thanks. I hand no substantive part in how it appears other than that I chose the colour of the tin cladding. Ms. Fishy and the builders made all the hard choices.

    No firm moving date yet. The septic still isn’t on line and we’ve yet to receive our certificate of occupancy from the shire.

  335. yazikus says

    Thread-rupt: I had my first committee meeting last night. It was a total privilege party.I had the one person lamenting that if “we could only teach the poors that cooking up some fresh veggies, sauteing them with some eggs and cheese, it is so much cheaper and faster than processed food. And then they would not be so fat!” and the other person saying that “according to a WHO study, obesity is a bigger problem than starving people!!!” I’m going to need alot of spoons to deal with this, and if anyone has handy peer reviewed studies on poverty and obesity, I am totally welcoming. I think my pet question will either be “Public access to local waterways” or “Sex Ed”, because both are lacking.

  336. says

    John @395:
    Sometimes I wish there was someone to explain your explanations to me. No slight on your part, but I find it difficult to understand your comments at times.

    It’s not you.
    It’s me.

    (Hey, that phrase does work in the right context)

  337. says

    Heavy question time.

    Is it ethical to force life upon a person (such as a preterm baby) when the quality of that life is going to be awful? Is it fair to a child to force a lifetime of pain, doctors, medical interventions…?

    At what point do we become the monsters?

  338. says

    Yikes! The day you have had..! My sympathies. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

    I have chill bumps right now. Your question is frustrating, saddening and mindbogglingball at once. I honestly cannot comment bevause I feel I lack sufficient experience dealingbwuth the myriad issues at play. That said, I dearly want to hear what others who are smarter and more travelled than me have to day.

  339. says

    I just got home from the bar. On the way I heard a song on the radio that was such a beautiful expression of equality that I not only perked my ears up, but developed goosebumps and even had to dry my eyes a few times.
    This was a hip-hop/rap song.
    I am not a fan of that genre.
    I like my music POPpy, Rock ClassicY, adult alternativeLY, and House-y.
    Yet there I was, moved to tears by a rap song.


    ” If I was gay, I would think hip-hop hates me Have you read the YouTube comments lately? “Man, that’s gay” gets dropped on the daily We become so numb to what we’re saying A culture founded from oppression Yet we don’t have acceptance for ’em Call each other faggots behind the keys of a message board A word rooted in hate, yet our genre still ignores it Gay is synonymous with the lesser It’s the same hate that’s caused wars from religion Gender to skin color, the complexion of your pigment The same fight that led people to walk outs and sit ins It’s human rights for everybody, there is no difference!

    Thank goodness for the net. I was able to type in the few words I remembered and voila! I found out Macklemore is the artist who shall be getting my money.
    I mean seriously…! He called out hip-hop for it’s homophobic shit. AND, he understands why GAY should not be an insult.

    Next up, lets do sonething about the sexism in hip-hop.

  340. says

    You people are such a bad influence.
    I just realized that my FB page is really one continuous discussion of various social justice issues. My only conclusion, the only rational one to be had…I have been assimilated into the Groupthink Hivemind. All sense of my individuality was drowned out by all these damn echoes in the chamber.
    Is a <snark! tag really necessary here ?

  341. carlie says

    yazikus – I’m short of time, but searching with the phrase “food desert” will open up a lot of discussions of the type I think you’re looking for.

    And if anyone doesn’t know yet, using the url scholar.google.com will give you google restricted to peer-reviewed published articles. It’s a really great way to search when that’s what you’re looking for. No guarantees that you’ll be able to access the papers if they’re behind a paywall, but it’s a good start.

  342. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    As a word of caution: google scholar doesn’t actually search for peer reviewed literature. What it does is look for pages that are formatted in the ways that scholarly publications use, no advertising for instance. The woo merchants are becoming aware of this and are starting to use formats that gscholar targets. It’s still a great resource, but critical evaluation of what you find there is still necessary.

  343. carlie says

    Oooo, sneaky. I did not know that – I thought they were filtering sources, not formatting.
    Also, lovely house! :)

  344. thunk, pitching over at Hadley Rille says

    yeah, i’m sourceless too.

    But it’s an important thing to remember that cooking food has time cost– a person that’s working two jobs and has a family to care for isn’t going to have time left to cook; they don’t really have a choice apart from processed stuff. It’s not because they’re too lazy to pull themselves up by their bootstraps; it’s because it’s basically humanly impossibly (or they have to be rented for five times the selling price).

    The solution would be paying fair wages to people, increasing access to produce (food deserts issue), and more recreational opportunities. but that would involve structural reform when it’s so much easier to victim-blame.

  345. Dr Pepper says


    From your handle, i assume that of the proto geologists, you like the neptunians.

    I doubt that many of the “woo merchants” practice the obsessive level of proofreading typical of a peer reveiwed author, as they are mostly into peer rubber stamping.

  346. Dr Pepper says

    @Thunk: How about community kitchen cooperatives? Get a group of, say 10 to 15 households together, to take turns making a single big meal, that’s then shared out, meals on wheels style.

  347. says

    The solution would be paying fair wages to people, increasing access to produce (food deserts issue), and more recreational opportunities. but that would involve structural reform when it’s so much easier to victim-blame.

    Also significantly restructuring the way that food subsidies work. At present, calorie-dense, nutrition poor processed foods are excessively cheap, due to massive subsidies for corn and soybeans making those crops hugely overproduced (also cotton, but that’s another problem entirely). I’d personally, as a short term fix, propose moving all the money that currently goes to ag subsidies directly over to the food stamp program (it’s all covered by the omnibus farm act anyway, so this isn’t modifying the budget too much(. In the long term, better wages and a social safety net, of course.

  348. Pteryxx says

    To make food, one also needs access to a kitchen and equipment (i.e. not be living in a motel, someone’s spare room, or a car), refrigeration and storage mostly free of vermin, electricity and utilities to run these things, a water source… and knowledge of how to render raw items into something edible. While I was crashing in places, I ruined or partly ruined a lot of meals learning how to deal with dry rice and raw food, and I’m still intimidated by dry beans which require soaking (and thus several hours of prep time and space in a tiny shared kitchen). About half my food is still instant oatmeal plus tap water out of a bottle.

    For a bit of framing, note that during the Texas abortion bill debate, one rep (I think it was Van de Putte but can’t find the source on Twitter) said some 40% of her rural constitutents don’t have access to running water.

  349. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    This whole food discussion is what I try to (figuratively) beat into the head of my preachy vegan cousin-in-law. I am respectful of her choices and her values, but damn she is obnoxiously obtuse. Toss in some fat-shaming (because if everyone would just eat healthy, they’d all be skinny!) and she is one of the most annoying people I know.

    If you’ll all humor me a moment, I have to whine about some sexist douchecanoery – the instructor for this course today was insisting that men and women learn differently. I asked for a citation and he snapped “30 years of teaching!” *cue eyeroll* He illustrated his point with a story about how his wife knew how to do a knot after he showed it to her just once. (shock! awe!) I snarked “maybe your wife is just smart” …he went on that women learn better because ‘they don’t try to figure out a better way to do it, they just listen!” I about lost it on him…women are naturally submissive?! Rarg. And that, of course, was not the whole of it. When he asked which firefighters present were officers, a woman raised her hand. For his question regarding command structure, he called on a man who wasn’t paying enough attention to raise his hand but who the instructor knew was an officer. Real horse’s ass, this guy.

    Carlie, I hope today was better. *hugs*

  350. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    I can’t remember the sociological term for it, but what i hate worst about being exposed to stereotypes is when I start believing them about myself. Usually it’s in the form of “Well, everyone thinks I’m stupid in this situation, and they probably think that because I’m a woman and they’re bigots. But, what if it’s just because I’m stupid, and they’re right?” Even when I realize the pattern, it doesn’t always help.

  351. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Just so we’re clear, you’re definitely not stupid and if a situation makes you think someone is being a bigot, you should probably trust your judgment about that (not about the stupidity on your part, because that’s just your insecurity acting up again).

    /obvious things being obvious

  352. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Thank you, Beatrice. The obvious reminders are helpful, because anxiety/lizard brain is great at obscuring the obvious, isn’t it?

  353. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    I know how I am, doubting myself so often, so yeah, better emphasize the obvious to the point of absurdity because the brain can drive you mad doubting and worrying to the point of absurdity too.

  354. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Counter-absurdity ftw :) I know what you mean, I appreciate you filling that for me.

  355. carlie says

    Thanks for the well wishes. :) It was nice most of the morning, is raining now, but some big storms passed by us. The tire of course turned out to be a tire, alignment, and tie rod, ugh.

    But I’m still focused on just finding happy things. We went strawberry picking this morning and I was looking at huller reviews on amazon (I know), noticed a banana slicer with over 4000 reviews, and clicked to find this. These things are kind of funny anyway, but stumbling across a set unawares made it even more amusing. There are definitely some gems in those reviews.

  356. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Glad you had a nice morning, Carlie.

    I laughed out loud the first time I read those reviews.

  357. says

    Dr Pepper

    How about community kitchen cooperatives? Get a group of, say 10 to 15 households together, to take turns making a single big meal, that’s then shared out, meals on wheels style.

    The major difficulties with this kind of thing in the U.S. are cultural ones, combined with a shitty built environment spawned by said cultural values. Specifically, Americans generally have a very strong tendency towards atomization, having one’s own space, one’s own things, one’s own yard, etc. For this reason, there tend to be few community spaces of notable size which would contain kitchen facilities sufficient for such a plan, and people are resistant to forming such groups to begin with. Additionally, many residential areas are low-density and auto oriented, which makes such a proposition more difficult and expensive. Finally, even in relatively high density areas there is often little contact or association between neighbors, which in turn leads to low levels of trust, the latter impairing the formation of such associations and so on in a vicious cycle (see Putnam’s Bowling Alone for a good overview of the social aspects, and Kunstler’s Geography of nowhere for the built environment). None of these problems are insurmountable, certainly, but they need to be addressed. Locally, the Kitchen Tool Library is having some success; it’s not a communal kitchen (although I think there are one or two in town), but it is a way for people to get access to specialized kitchen equipment at least.
    You are not stupid at all. When I hear things like that, I’m always reminded of that particular aspect of my own white, male, middle class privilege: I have virtually never in my life had that worry(Ochem is the only time I can remember, and it was a fair cop, I really wasn’t getting it), so it’s always a bit startling to hear someone who I know to be perfectly bright saying that they are worried about it so often.

  358. Pteryxx says

    Portia: self-esteem can be learned to some extent, by regular exercises like writing affirmations of one’s values, things important or enjoyable in the world, and listing accomplishments, and by reading over these writings every now and again. Like the writing exercises that help counter stereotype threat, they can help interrupt and eventually replace those mental narratives about how broken or helpless or incompetent we think we are. Hope that helps ♥

    Texas again: excellent summary article of the current abortion fight and background over the last few years, including the 2011 family-planning budget cuts that have already closed 60 women’s health clinics, and the terrible emotional cost of the mandatory ultrasound law.


    There’s a saying that “Texas is paradise for men and dogs, but hell for women and horses.” That’s a little outdated and not completely accurate: in fact, horses are treated pretty well here. Women in Texas have had a difficult time.

    For two decades, since Ann Richards was governor, Texas politics has been dominated by a small group of mostly Anglo Republican men, elected by a few hundred thousand GOP primary voters. In 2011, the Legislature, fueled by an influx of tea party Republicans, slashed the state’s family-planning budget by two-thirds, which forced more than 60 clinics to close around the state and deprived more than 140,000 women of access to low-cost contraception and health screenings. That same year, the Legislature also required any woman seeking an abortion to undergo a pre-abortion sonogram and to hear a wrenching description of the fetus. The anger and frustration over Texas Republican leaders’ attacks on women’s health continued building in 2013.

    Cited in that paragraph:



  359. rq says

    Everybody vote for Sonore (my choir!). Jā -> Balsot -> find Sonore via list, vote via Facebook and/or Twitter. Every day until July 31. Help us get large amounts of money for next year’s trip to Canada!!!

    Speaking of singing, I’m fine, thanks for worrying, Improbable Joe and cicely! I was taking my friend’s car home last night in pouring rain. It’s an old car with crappy tires and crappy windshield wipers, and even going below the speed limit and being tail-gated by a fucking bus and not seeing anything, I managed a few decent hydroplaning sessions (incl. one that would have spun me out nice into on-coming traffic). I’m fine, I’m never driving that car again, and there was no fire.

    Back to that ssinging bit, had a bit of an emotionally charged performance today that was… emotionally charged for us. Here’s a link to Part II of amateur choir nationals or whatever you call this thing we call choir wars which is… like any other contests/competition for choirs. Anyway. we start around minute 94. Can’t sese much of me because the camermen* had weird ideas about framing.

    *They were men. Should I still say ‘people’?

    After that I went to work, which wa a problem because of being emotionally charged – shaking hands and mind-blanks is not the way to write forensic reports to investigators, haha. Anyway.
    Having a beer on an empty stomach because I also managed not to eat all day, woohoo! I am so appreciative of Husband right now (and yes, I told him so and will tell him again in many different ways!) who has been patient with all rehearsals and gathering the children and feeding them and tidying up etc. etc. but things forward for a month or two should be a bit easier.

    *hugs* to everyone and everyone else who wants or needs them, I caught up mostly but I’m afraid I’m not much good for decent ocommenting right now. Especially *hugs* for you, Dalillama! Because.

  360. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    sorry, can’t vote since I don’t have facebook or twitter

  361. cicely says

    11 Harsh Realities About the World of Harry Potter

    Heavy question time.
    Is it ethical to force life upon a person (such as a preterm baby) when the quality of that life is going to be awful? Is it fair to a child to force a lifetime of pain, doctors, medical interventions…?
    At what point do we become the monsters?

    Equally valid question in considering end-of-life decision-making. And if the pro-lifers come out with, “But you can’t consult the unborn for its opinion!”, then “But you can’t (usefully) consult the mentally incompetent for their opinion!” is also in play.
    Also, considering that minors cannot make legally binding decisions, that approach is in any case irrelevant; the parent/guardian decide on the child’s/incompetent’s behalf. Even if you consider the fetus to be a child for such purposes, the child’s “decision” cannot be considered binding.

    A belated Welcome In for Dr Pepper.

    newbie here: i don’t get the references to spoons.

    Short form: Spoons = mental/emotional/physical resources with which to cope with challenges/situations. Some have more than others. And when you’re out of spoons, you’re done. The ‘fees’ for overdrawing on your Spoons account are decidedly punitive.

    *hug* for Portia.

    I asked for a citation and he snapped “30 years of teaching!”

    Yeeeeeeah…there’s this saying about the relevance of anecdotes as hard data….
    “At what point must a female senatorfirefighter raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over her male colleagues?”

    I can’t remember the sociological term for it, but what i hate worst about being exposed to stereotypes is when I start believing them about myself.

    IMO, it’s a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Social Brainwashing. Cultural Indoctrination.

  362. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Just 11? Oh come on, focusing on government oppression with no mention of government being able to legally erase people’s memories.

    (Don’t get me started… really, don’t)

  363. thunk, pitching over at Hadley Rille says

    what people said above:

    yes. “Rugged individualism”, it turns out, is a systemic problem. with so much of the population living in self-contained houses with a wide front lawn in self-contained suburbs, an hour by rail from the CBD (if means of public transport even exist), it’s easy to have people fall through the cracks. especially since that cultural individualism would refuse to offer a safety net in the first place.

  364. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Thanks, Dalillama, that means a lot. And hey, awareness raising is a good side effect of my whining ^_^

    Pteryxx, thank you for the suggestion…I’ll have to try that.

    You made me laugh!

    I asked for a citation and he snapped “30 years of teaching!”

    Yeeeeeeah…there’s this saying about the relevance of anecdotes as hard data….

    I maaaaay have followed up with a sharp “Sounds scientific” which was roundly ignored.

    “At what point must a female senatorfirefighter raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over her male colleagues?”

    Very nice, I like it.

  365. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    sorry, cicelyy, here’s an extra y this time

  366. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    Also, napolitanke waffles taste delicious (maybe because that was partially my childhood). Those damn croatians and their culinary prowess

  367. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    I adore the chocolate filled and chocolate covered ones. Not so much others, especially the the fruity kind.

  368. cicely says

    21 Jokes Only Nerds Will Understand

    Hilarious answer from a woman about why she looks butch. I’m dying. (NSFW, probably).

    NSFFB, anyways. Pity.

    Beatrice: And it doesn’t even touch the consent-to-sex question. For that matter, what with the existence of Love Philters (which seem to be considered socially acceptable, given that they’re sold in joke shops, and there’s an example of Mrs. Weasley (a card-carrying member of Team Good!, fercryinoutloud!) joking with someone about a Love Charm of some sort from back in her Hogwarts days) and Confundus Charms and Imperius Curses, how can you even be sure you’ve had sex, willingly or not? A rapist doesn’t even have to worry about “it’s her word against his”!
    I shall save the extra ‘y’ against future need.

  369. says

    RE: Hogwarts questions
    How the hell did Sirius Black (or anyone else) get wrongly sentenced for murder? They’ve got a fucking TRUTH SERUM which appears to be 100% reliable. Why on earth would the use of that not be standard for people giving testimony in court? “Here, drink this. Ok, did you do it?” No, I didn’t” “Ok then.”

  370. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Well, at least they are not teaching children spells or potions that they could use to hurt/murder/manipulate/have people completely at their mercy.
    Oh wait.

    Ok then. It’s not like they’re pitting children against each other since they are 11, dividing the society further into four groups based on a handful of personality traits, that will more or less determine their whole lives.

    Oh… that’s.. er..

    At least there’s no lawyers. A world without lawyers should totally….( I hope Portia is not reading this) … rock.. Except if you’re sentenced to prison without any sort of trial or way to defend yourself.

    Erm… magic is cool?

  371. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    *sniffles in dejection*

    (If I couldn’t take a lawyer joke by this point, I’d be a very downcast person indeed).

  372. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    They’ve got a fucking TRUTH SERUM which appears to be 100% reliable. Why on earth would the use of that not be standard for people giving testimony in court? “Here, drink this. Ok, did you do it?” No, I didn’t” “Ok then.”

    Ooooh, that would be nice to have. Especially in the initial consultation with a client…”Ok, what did you do wrong in the situation?” “Uh, I may have hit him first, actually.” “Alright then…”

  373. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    *chocolate* by way of apology for the bad joke

  374. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    cicely – I’m apologize. I commented about gallbladder surgery without thinking it through. I am very sorry that our healthcare system doesn’t provide you with an immediate surgery option. *hugs and chocolate*

    Portia – Ugh. *hugs*

    Dr Pepper – Welcome to the Lounge! (Late I know, but I seem to be behind a lot lately.)

    rq – I’m sorry. I do not have Facebook or Twitter so I can’t vote. :(

  375. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says

    Hekuni Cat –

    *hugs* heartily returned.

  376. thunk: Ex ludo, scientia says

    This is why I try not to think too hard about fantasy. By nature of its very detachment from reality for the purposes of restoring an idyllic childhood world where it’s all right in the end, the various things taken to their logical conclusion would result in a total reshaping of the work’s universe.

    This all seems extremely antithetical to scepticism though.

  377. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Last week I spilled a tankard of grog on my desk with my home computer. In sopping up the liquid, uncovered a lot of buried and forgotten debris. Like back-up disks for my Cube circa 2004, and a series of bank accounts my father opened with my name on them that are now defunct. At least there were some nice check boxes for small electronics and pills. The checks are finally shredded. I think the shredder is giving me the evil eye.

    This week I will install a WiFi router in the house. My iMac WiFI could only reach half the front room, nowhere near where the Redhead normally camps out. The Airport Express will be within easy range of her normal spot, so the iPad shouldn’t have any trouble getting that far. The iMac will still be hard wired so that sensitive information will be easier to protect.

    As an added bonus, I’m getting an Airport card for the Cube. Which still works, but is 12 years old. Tttaaalllkkkk aaabbbooouuuttt ssslllooowww……

  378. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    On another topic, I’m getting a call allegedly about the medical procedure I underwent a couple of weeks ago, and is from the hospital. What is suspicious, is that the caller ID comes up “private call” or “no number” and the number to call is prefixed 888 instead of 847 for the hospital. In fact, putting that number into the white pages reverse directory gives “no information available”. Calling that number doesn’t give a company identification, just “your call important, please wait for the next avail representative” with no place to go the extension. Needless to say, my skeptic alarms are on red alert.

    What is the opinion of the horde? Even the Redhead is totally suspicious.

  379. Portia...are you ready boots? Start walkin' says


    Do you have contact info for a specific person at the hospital or insurance company you could call just to make sure that there’s not a legitimate issue you need to address? I would definitely not give any info to someone who calls you and asks. Big red flag.

  380. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Are we talking ‘early 90′s dial up’ slow?

    Well, the built in modem was the max phone line available (56 or 58 K). But it is a G4 processor, originally 450 MHz, but with an upgrade to 1.4 GHz. It does have Radeon 9000 video card, and for its era, as hot as anything. The Airport card is Wifi version b, whereas the iMac an iPad are version n. But it will work for a visitor for email and minor web browsing and keep them off my iMac, although I set up a guest account on my iMac my FIL uses when the Redhead’s parents visit.

  381. says

    Beyond suspicious. If the number is at all affiliated with the hospital you went to, aren’t they supposed to identify who they are when calling? Same with calling them. No company id? Screw that.

  382. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    If the number is at all affiliated with the hospital you went to, aren’t they supposed to identify who they are when calling? Same with calling them. No company id? Screw that.

    Exactly my feelings, and what the Redhead read in one of the AARP publications. Might be going to an off-shore pay-per-minute service, which keeps you on the line….for their profit….I don’t like liberturdism….

  383. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Portia: the word you want is “stereotype threat.”

    Yeeeeeeah…there’s this saying about the relevance of anecdotes as hard data….

    The common usage seems to be “‘anecdotes’ are data that support an argument for social justice.”

  384. Pteryxx says

    Via Brute Reason:

    Ohio just snuck through an anti-abortion omnibus bill several boiling-frog steps worse than the Texas bill going to special session tomorrow. It includes a “clearly visible” ultrasound requirement, thus forced vaginal ultrasounds in most cases; several mandated lies physicians must tell patients, doubles the waiting period from 24 to 48 hours, medical waivers only if the pregnant person’s at risk of *death*… and an admitting-privileges requirement at a PRIVATE hospital within 30 miles. So if there’s only a public hospital within 30 miles of a clinic, that clinic must shut down.

    Ohio’s governor can veto any or all provisions of the bill before midnight Sunday. Please call or email and spread the word to turn the pressure up.

    Here’s what you can do: call Gov. Kasich at (614) 466-3555 or email him here and let him know you oppose House Bill 200. I just did. Remember what I wrote about online activism? We can make a difference.

    More background articles for abortion-rights support:

    Why there is no ‘just’ having the baby

    The hospital bill was over $24,000. The anesthesiologist’s bill for the epidural was over $9,000. The presiding obstetrician’s bill was around $4,500. Those are just the bills we’ve seen so far, and we’re lucky that our insurance is going to pick up the majority of it. I do not know the full range of what happens when you get a set of bills like that and you have no health coverage or little to no income, but it can’t possibly be good.

    While there are some people who are up and about like nothing happened just days after a normal vaginal delivery, and some who have significant birth injuries, it usually takes about six weeks to recover from giving birth if everything goes well. Since there are millions of parents in the United States who can’t even get a day off for the flu, it’s not hard to figure out that birth itself causes a lot of immediate job loss.


    We got the complete bill in the mail yesterday for the baby’s first three-night NICU stay, and it topped $23,000. He was there six nights this time, with more tests performed and more complicated treatments administered.

    Why a 20-week abortion ban is unthinkable: One woman’s near-death experience

    Preeclampsia is a common reason to need to end a pregnancy but not the only one. I personally know stories of ectopic pregnancies. I knew someone who developed leukemia part way through a pregnancy. The doctor said you can wait to start chemo, but there’s a much higher risk that you will die from leukemia. I cannot conceive of the idea that some man in Washington DC should get to make that decision for her.

    There is this myth that the maternal mortality rate is zero. That isn’t true at all. Even with the best medical care it is thousands of women each year and without that care it is hundreds of thousands. The Right Wing has done this masterful job of portraying pregnancy termination as irresponsible women not wanting to take responsibility for their actions. That is a gross misrepresentation. There are lots and lots of reasons that women end pregnancies. To be blunt I would guess that very few are ended without some real thought. But at the end of the day those are medical decisions.

    Viability through the eyes of a NICU nurse (2009)

    As a NICU nurse I must disagree with her on her assumptions of care for an infant born with such extreme prematurity. [21 5/7 weeks] The doctors were just in their actions. It would have been an extreme injustice to Jayden to attempt to resuscitate one so premature. There is a term in medical ethics called Benevolent Injustice. Below is an abstract of an article written by Brenda Barnum, BSN, RN, for Advances in Neonatal Care, that talks about this concept:


    If we are called to a delivery for unsure dates between 22-23 weeks, (the NICU team does not attend deliveries between 21-22 weeks) we first counsel the mom on what will happen and give her as much information as possible, regarding outcomes and survivability. Her choices are to do nothing and provide only comfort care, to start resuscitation until the baby “declares” himself, either by improving or decompensating, or request a full blown resuscitation. The physician’s at the delivery will assess the infant and it is ethically and legally appropriate to withhold or stop a resuscitation on such an extremely premature infant based on how the infant presents himself.

    Infants born at 22-23 weeks gestation have a 1-10% chance of survival, with the high end requiring the most advanced NICU care possible. Of those survivors, greater than 95% will suffer profound neurodevelopmental impairment NICHD/NIH. By profound neurodevelopmental impairment, I do not mean the child will have a learning disability, or need to walk with canes, or have mild cerebral palsy. I mean the child may suffer from intractable seizures, need a feeding tube because of being unable to swallow, have varying degrees of blindness and deafness, have spastic quadraplegia and be wheelchair bound, never speak, never crawl, never walk, never run, etc.

    and each of those articles has further links and even more information.

  385. rq says


    medical waivers only if the pregnant person’s at risk of *death*

    In my opinion, everyone who is pregnant is at risk of death. Because you just can’t know when certain conditions show up, like pre-eclampsia, hyper-tension, etc. My uncle’s wife, for example, had everything go super-smooth and well, until the last trimester. Both times, she nearly died because of the sudden on-set of symptoms that came out of the blue.
    And this is one thing that those fancy-pants law-makers don’t get, I think. Going back to the whole ‘pregnancy is natural’ argument and ‘women were made for pregnancy’ argument, it really blinds them to the fact that it’s a dangerous thing, to be pregnant – even when things seem to be going well.
    I wish there was a brave, brave lawyer or some such out there who could argue this point to them, or at least in a court after the first ‘non-death-mandated’ abortion is being tried. That any pregnancy can result in death, therefore that abortion of a intitially-supposedly healthy fetus was perfectly legal.
    Not likely, I know. *sigh*


    Anyway, good morning, Horde. My choir has tied for Third Place Nationally, as tied-third-best choir in the whole giant country. ;) Yay us!!

  386. Dr Pepper says

    @Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Last week I spilled a tankard of grog on my desk with my home computer. In sopping up the liquid, uncovered a lot of buried and forgotten debris. Like back-up disks for my Cube circa 2004, and a series of bank accounts my father opened with my name on them that are now defunct. At least there were some nice check boxes for small electronics and pills. The checks are finally shredded. I think the shredder is giving me the evil eye.

    I bow to your superior desk keeping. i have no pile on mine more than 4 months old.

  387. rq says

    I know. That would be my point.
    But there’s a huge thing about pregnancy about how it’s so natural and good and pregnant women are just so beautiful! Therefore, nothing can go wrong, and if it does, it’s an exception, and somehow unnatural (not true, of course!).

    Example: Yesterday in choir, 7-months pregnant Friend came to watch us sing, and Friend who has never had children was all gushing and You look so good!!!, but PregFriend was not amused. We had a discussion about how it feels at that point, and that most likely no compliments about looks will be received well. And yet, it seems like the Right Thing to do – Hey, I bet she feels pretty tired, I’ll tell her pregnancy suits her and that it makes her glow and look super-feminine! Yeah… Because that’s exactly what I want to hear at that point, that pregnancy is my Natural State of Being. *barf*

  388. Dr Pepper says

    Thanks for all the welcomes, folks. This place actually feels very familiar to me. It reminds me a lot of talk.origins, where i used to hang out. As did PZ. I actually ended up here because i was looking for another regular, Boikat.