Baltimore has a very sensible ordinance that requires pregnancy counseling centers to plainly state what services they provide.
The ordinance requires that a “limited-service pregnancy center” post an easily readable sign, written in English and Spanish, stating that the center does not provide or make referrals for abortion or birth-control services. A center failing to comply within 10 days of being cited could be fined up to $150 a day.
That’s perfectly reasonable, even if the center is directly opposed to abortion — they could cheerfully put up a sign bragging that they do not abort adorable little babies, and take some pride in their position. But no, that’s not what they want to do. We’ve got a ‘counseling center’ here in Morris, for instance, that provides no real help at all. They’ve got little signs around that say something like, “Pregnant? We can help!” with a phone number, and when some frightened teenaged girl calls, their sole purpose is to make sure she does not get an abortion. Stating their position up front and diminishing confusion is exactly what they don’t want — they want their clients confused and worried, susceptible to the lies they’ll tell them.
So perhaps you will be as unsurprised as I am to learn that the Catholic Diocese of Baltimore is suing the city, claiming oppression because they are asked to be clear in the range of services they will offer.
Thomas J. Schetelich, chairman of the board for the Center for Pregnancy Concerns, said that the ordinance singles out the Catholic Church for its anti-abortion stance. The nonprofit, anti-abortion organization receives donations from religious groups supporting women who plan to take their pregnancies to term and operates three of the four local centers.
“Frankly, we would expect our city government to be supporting our sacrificial efforts rather than trying to hinder,” Schetelich said. “We’re disappointed that our stand for life draws opposition.”
Please note: they are talking about four referral centers. They have hired a battery of lawyers to oppose the posting of four signs that state exactly what they regard as a positive, noble, tenet of their faith, that they do not condone abortions. What’s the gripe? If they think it’s an unfair burden to have to pay for four signs, I suspect that if they asked Planned Parenthood or other such organizations, or even asked the community at large, people would chip in to send them a few hundred dollars or a few thousand dollars, even, to make their own damned signs.
This is simply the Catholic Church suing for the right to keep people in the dark, as they have for so many centuries.
They have no grounds for complaint. As a NARAL director explains,
“This law empowers women by giving them full information up front about what to expect from a limited-service pregnancy center,” said Jennifer Blasdell, the organization’s executive director. “This provision does not ask a facility to provide or counsel for any services they find objectionable, but only asks them to tell the truth about the nature of their services.”
By the way, our local example of anti-abortion ignorance is called the Morris Life Care Pregnancy Center, and it is somehow affiliated with the Morris Evangelical Free Church, our local festering canker of wingnut inanity. They don’t seem to provide any material services at all, other than advice, AKA browbeating and misleading. I am amused to see that they are hosting a father-daughter chastity ball (although they don’t call them that anymore), which is rather creepy.
However, I do commend them on one thing. Right there at the bottom of their web page, they clearly and honestly state this:
“This center does not offer abortion services or abortion referrals. This information is intended for general educational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for professional medical advice.”
I can’t complain too much about them, then — I disagree vehemently with their opinions, but as long as they’re not pretending to be offering real medical advice and don’t pretend to offer services that they’re actually going to be telling their clients to avoid, they have every right to express their beliefs.
I hate to say this, but the Baltimore Diocese could learn something about honesty from a loony rural Protestant church that teaches that the world is only 6000 years old.
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day?
But, but… if they have to be honest, then they can’t trick women and string them along until they’re past the point of being able to legally abort! Then who would go use their services, huh?
Lately I been suffering great pangs of regret for being born into a Catholic family. I didn’t have much choice, but still, it pisses me off.
The RCC could learn something about honesty from Bernie Madoff. At least he was able to run an enormous scam without sheltering a coven of rapists.
The truth has nothing to fear from inquiry, and yet the RCC is (and always has been) terrified of openness and transparency.
…and here’s the latest anti-choice wingnut bullshit going on these days.
I wish the decent women of the world would rise up and tar and feather these lusers.
But… if women stop having kids in large numbers, at the predicted decrease in the rate of belief, who will the future priests abuse? :p
Those father-daighter balls seem a pretty odd thing to me. A geek conf. I attended some years ago was in a hotel where there was one such dance on the saturday night. We were treated to a large cohort of 16/17/18 year old babes in *outrageous* dresses and visibly lacking underwear (sorry, lost the pictures) hanging out with and dancing with all these old guys in bad suits. Almost like a casting call for sleazy movies.
Did anyone else follow the “chastity ball” link? Why are only “ladies up to the age of 18” allowed?
I mean, I get its important to do father-daughter stuff, and that these charity balls are weird, but why is it mandatory under 18? Thats SUPER creepy. Why don’t they just imply its for younger kids?
Here in Fort Wayne, IN, we have a similar situation. There is only one abortion provider – who lives out of town and pays an occasional visit as needed.
However, there are huge billboards for centers for women with unwanted pregnancies.
Naturally, they don’t really provide the abortions they like to imply they do. They get the women in and brainwash them in believing abortion will send them to hell, etc.
It’s misleading advertising, at the very least.
A father-daughter chastity ball – because you can’t trust young men with your daughters, and you can’t trust your daughters with young men. And that dancing carry-on is just sex set to music, really.
(“Sex? ‘Round here we keep it in the family.”)
What a sensible law. These “pregnancy centers”, really infuriate me. My wife saw an ad for Birthright International in a local mag, and said, “What is that, like another Planned Parenthood?” Nonononono, it is PP’s evil twin. The fuckers.
[PSA]the easiest way to identify a clinic that provides abortion services is to look for protesters in front. if there aren’t any, chances are there are no abortions being performed or suggested inside[/PSA]
worked for me… without the Orange Prayer Brigade™, I’d have never known there was an abortion clinic in Fargo, hehe
Another tactic they use: delay. They string a naive girl along, referring, canceling, delaying, rescheduling, and misleading until it’s too late to consider an abortion. They they ignore her. How exactly would they phrase that on a legally-required sign?
Wow.
Living in Baltimore
Being Catholic
Unwanted pregnancy
It’s all uphill from there
There is a poll that needs to be Pharyngulated on the news article! http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.ci.pregnancy30mar30,0,4172720.story
Or it could be that the loony rural protestant church doesn’t have the deep pockets of the Baltimore diocese, and lacks the resources to fight the ordinance.
Might have less to do with honesty and more to do with legal obligation to follow an ordinance they lack the wherewithal to oppose.
If they can afford lawyers and lawsuits, they can afford to pay for the signs.
I’m sitting in Baltimore right now. A very, very, very catholic place.* When people here ask where you went to school, they mean: which catholic prep school did you attend?
* But to be fair, let us remember that one reason Maryland is heavily catholic is the result of liberal tolerance. Some of the other early colonies didn’t allow the papists in or allow them to remain — at least unharassed.
MD allowed catholics. But not jews. Didn’t want to take that tolerance thing too far, you know.
As a woman – no, as a HUMAN – this disgusts me. I’m not going to ask these centers to perform abortions, or even make referrals. But I wish they’d stop with their ridiculous religious guilt. Taking advantage of any pregnant woman but yelling at her, showing her disgusting pictures (usually doctored) of fetuses, etc, is not making the world a better place. We live in a pro-choice country, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. If these places can’t get on board with posting a sign in their window just to state what services they offer, maybe the state should revoke all church funding. Just a thought.
I’m still trying to wrap my brain around “having to say what you do” = “violation of free speech”
Oh good, my hometown has made the news again. Aren’t we all so proud.
I’ve heard about this in the local papers and a few local radio stations mentioned it. The church is claiming it’s being singled out, and is working hard at casting itself as the victim. I’m still not entirely clear on how a requirement that a business tell potential customers what services they do and do not offer is a first amendment violation. No one is forcing them to change what services or advice they offer (even though, last I knew, religious-based counseling centers like these tended to tell people that it was “proven” that women who had aborted had a higher rate of breast cancer). They’re free to keep telling people that “abortions make the baby Jesus cry – you wouldn’t want to abort the baby Jesus, would you? What if Mary had had an abortion?” * It’s dishonest, manipulative and I think socially objectionable, but it’s not illegal.
I like this ordinance, I hope it stands up in court and gets to stay, and I hope that this lawsuit gets it MORE national attention than it would have gotten otherwise, causing it to spread to other parts of the country faster.
This is just another reason I’m starting to like our NEW Mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, as she’s a firm supporter of the ordinance.
*The world would be a better place, no doubt.
For an infuriating look at the deception and harassment, check out everysaturdaymorning.wordpress.com.
Did anyone else follow the “chastity ball” link? Why are only “ladies up to the age of 18” allowed?
Because if they’re not married and attempting to start popping out babies by that point it’s an embarrassment you don’t want to parade to the community, one guesses.
“Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day?”
Just how is one to be certain when those two moments arrive?
Tennessee – We gots our own abortion sign!
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100401/NEWS0201/4010363/TN-bill-to-require-abortion-anti-coercion-signs-advances
From the article:
The legislation would require clinics to conspicuously post signs that would read in part: “It is against the law for anyone, regardless of the person’s relationship to you, to coerce you into having or to force you to have an abortion.”
…
“They have ridiculous civil penalties that they put on this that are just absolutely for no other purpose but to intimidate people that are trying to help people that are in the process of trying to have an abortion,” Marrero said.
“They’re not trying to put up signs for people being forced to have vasectomies or other medical procedures. To the best of my knowledge, it is still the law of this land that you can legally have an abortion.”
RE: “What if Mary had had an abortion?”
See, I’ve had some very entertaining discussions with fundies around this idea. (Entertaining to me; infuriating to them.) Here’s the thesis:
1. Fundies say life begins at conception.
2. Fundies say abortion causes pain and suffering to the fetus.
3. Fundies say abortion kills.
4. Jesus came to suffer and die for our sins.
5. Jesus was the messiah at the moment of conception. (He wasn’t?!? Oh, when did he become god?)
6. If Mary had had an abortion, would not Jesus have suffered and died?
7. And since Jesus was the messiah, wouldn’t an abortion by Mary have resulted in everyone’s sins being forgiven?
8. So, really, Mary having an abortion would have been equivalent to Jesus being crucified.
Just goes to show how backwards-thinking the Catholic church STILL is….after 2,000 years……
Be careful what you wish for. I bet the signs’ll be in bold, 48-point Comic Sans, and will therefore be a net loss for humanity.
@Disturbingly Openminded: Which would have saved a lot of time and spared us a poorly-written book.
Excellent post, PZ, even by your high standards.
There’s the problem right there. According to the Church, anything that empowers women is of the devil. Jesus and a God-fearing husband are all the empowerment needed.
@ #26. If Jesus were aborted, Easter would have come a whole lot earlier. And may have been celebrated twice a yr.
“And when they went to the fridge, they saw the jar lid was open. And The Foetal Massiah spoketh his first words (before being born) and said ‘In Heaven my Father has a say if His child can be aborted’.”
Here ends the reading.
I wish that those Catholic bait and switch shops had to display a sign that said this.
Alas, the Catholic Church has a history of cloaking it’s intentions.
You know, I just thought of:
9. So, for all we know, a young woman having an abortion today might be the Second Coming! You wouldn’t want to delay that by 9 months, would you?
If your daughter was raped and you counsel her that abortion is unacceptable I deem you a sick and deranged individual.
And MolBio at #32 thought of it even faster.
Now if they would just stop crisis pregnancy centers non-medical, guilt tripping through the use of ultrasounds, which animal models seem to indicate may cause changes in fetal brain development, perhaps the harm these places do could be mitigated.
http://www.alternamoms.com/ultrasound.html
Peter H @ 24
Say the clock is stopped at 1:56. Now watch the clock carefully, and at exactly the moment it is right, it will be 1:56.
The poll is tilted in favor of the Diocese having it’s ‘free speech’ violated at this point. Need some help there!
“…hosting a father-daughter chastity ball”
Cue AC/DC…
or Three Dog Night: This is the night to go to the chastity ball.
Seriously though, father-daughter dances CAN be a good thing. Not sure about the focus on chastity though. When my daughters were young (7 – 10) we were in a father-daughter organization that had a yearly dance (along with camping, bowling, skating, etc). The girls got to dress nicely, get a corsage, and see their dads in a suit and tie (a not very common occurrence).
@ Disturbingly Openminded: Christmas would be a little screwed though. Mind you, would you follow a religion where an unborn foetus is a moral instructor:
Away in a manger
No foreceps to pull out a head
The foetal Lord Jesus
Aborted not dead. :p
Die Anyway, did your daughter present you with a key as a promise to not have a man unlock her box until she was married?
I don’t think this is actually about abortion. That’s just a convenient excuse.
This is really about their longing for the good old days when the RCC was above all secular laws and governments had to obey them.
The RCC deeply resents the loss of power.
And how is not telling the truth about what you do and do not do NOT in keeping with the 8th Commandment*?
* in the Catholic Bible, 9th in other versions.
I was born in Baltimore… the fact that the city government has a sensible ordinance in place just shows how far it’s come in 20 years.
Well, being anti-abortion (and presumably anti-birth control in general), it’s a good thing they support father-daughter chastity. Because it avoids some situations that can be very awkward socially.
“What if Mary had an abortion?”
Would have prevented a lot of headaches I think.
If the Archdiocese of Baltimore is required to tell the truth regarding their pregnancy counceling centres, would it not stand to reason that they must also be 100% honest regarding all church functions? Just imagine the signs on the churches:
“The Holy Eucharist turns to Jesus’ flesh only in your mind. No actual transubstantiation can be inferred.”
“Warning: This organization (the Roman Catholic Church) has been protecting sexual predators for at least 1,000 years. And we haven’t stopped yet.”
“Confession is not good for the soul, but it is good for our priest’s fantasy life.”
“Warning: We lie.”
I swear I thought you meant Hare Krishnas the first couple of times that I read that.
“Frankly, we would expect our city government to be supporting our sacrificial efforts rather than trying to hinder,” Schetelich said.
This quote must have been misattributed. This is the argument that would be made by a representative of the Church of Satan, not a Catholic.
(The Church of Satan is also anti-abortion, so I’m not surprised that they oppose the law.
WeThey rely on crisis pregnancy centers as an important source of newborn infants.)So…you don’t think that father-daughter dances should be chaste events?
*ducks and runs*
MolBio: Christmas would be a little screwed though.
Well, it depends on if you mean the religious xmas or the secular xmas. (Lovely rewrite on Away in a Manger!)
Because I also maintain that anyone who believes human life begins at conception has no business celebrating birthdays. Shouldn’t xians be having their big hoopla in late March?
Happy Conception Day to you!
Happy Conception Day to you!
Your Mum and Dad had a screw!
Happy Conception Day to you!
If conception were the bright line, lots of our laws and customs would be different. I work in the financial field and fetuses have pretty much no rights or privileges at all unless and until they are born. For example, laws of intestacy don’t recognize the financial rights of fetuses that don’t make it to birth. In the US, a fetus cannot be claimed as a deduction on income taxes.
This whole “life begins at conception” runs counter to the history of western civilization, in my opinion. (I don’t know enough about non-western civilizations to comment.)
If human life begins at conception, it might explain all the wrong horoscopes I’ve been getting.
It has been mentioned above, but apparently went unnoticed:
There’s a POLL at that link PZ posted!!
And it’s going the WRONG WAY!!!
http://tinyurl.com/yff7953
So, they’re free speech proponents, eh?
So I’m sure they wouldn’t object to my placing a sign next to theirs, clearly explaining what they DO and what they DON’T.
OR .. do they belong to that rather large group of people how interpret ‘free speech’ as only THEIR right, not others’?
I’m still trying to wrap my brain around “having to say what you do” = “violation of free speech”
Self-incrimination.
If Mary had gotten an abortion, would xtians wear a coat hanger or vacuum pendants? Maybe a gold RU-486?
And uhm.. ‘truth in advertising’ is a violation of free speech?
Maybe that lawsuit isn’t such a bad thing after all!
Think of all the money they’re going to waste on it!
TGAP Dad: “If Mary had gotten an abortion, would xtians wear a coat hanger or vacuum pendants? Maybe a gold RU-486?”
A vial of dust from the tabernacle floor. See Numbers 5:11-31. That passage describes an abortion procedure that Joseph could have insisted upon for Mary. If that isn’t a prophecy of RU-486, I don’t what is.
I can’t speak much on current practice for desert nomads, but the ones that wrote the Bible* sure placed no value on children under 1 month of age, let alone post-conception pre-birth entities.
And, still does to this day.
But, they’re not committing a crime? No one says they have to change their advice, just be honest about the fact that under no circumstances will they ever tell a woman about every option actually available to her, and in fact, they will attempt to counsel a woman out of having an abortion, regardless of her personal situation.
Much like if, say, there were an organization that was philosophically opposed to adoption, and counseled pregnant women, but never ever recommended adoption, and refused to provide any help or assistance to a woman in adopting out her unwanted child…in that case I would want to see something telling women that the clinic in question will never, ever recommend or help with adoption.
Anyone going into one of these clinics should know if the clinic is deliberately avoiding recommending a specific option, given that the idea behind these clinics is to counsel a woman on ALL options.
Fairness towards the women seeking help trumps any rights of the clinic to secretly give out incomplete advice.
re 52:
Really, the “big hoopla” is supposed to be Easter, not Christmas anyway.
And the Catholics at least have a holy day for the conception, though they don’t call it that: The Feast of the Annunciation where Gabriel just announces to Mary that she is pregnant. (not to be confused with the Feast of the Immaculate Conception which is Mary’s).
Pragmatically though, the Annunciation is probably just too close to Easter, gotta spread those big parties around the calendar, you know.
We have one of those “Life Care Centers” here in Stillwater, too. The only sign that they have out front says that they offer free ultrasounds, free STD testing, and, if I recall correctly, free pregnancy counseling.
Aside from the predictable crap on the abortion page on their website, check out the Getting Informed tab. Apparently condoms are “not effective against sexually transmitted infections.” Say what?
Despicable.
For a laugh, at least if you have a dark sense of humor, check out the disclaimer: “SCVLC (St. Croix Valley Lifecare Center) does not warrant that … the information on this website is complete, true, accurate or non-misleading.”
I’d go a step further … they shouldn’t be allowed to advertise as providing “counseling services” – coercion services … fine.
Given that these groups are quite happy to put up big bus-shelter ads reading “Abortion Stops A Beating Heart”, and similar billboards outside their churches (all of which I support as an exercise of their free-speech rights), you’d think they’d be equally eager to proclaim their moral stance outside these pregnancy centers.
But for some reason, no. Odd, that. Same goes for the Birthright ads I see inside the bus sometimes.
Re: SteveM @ 63
Really, if you assume the people writing the Bible knew anything about herding, probably Christmas was moved from the spring itself. (Maybe because the Romans had a big old party in the winter, and having a big old party yourselves is a good answer.) Which would put Happy Divine Conception Day in the summer, conveniently places to have two holidays in two different seasons. Of course, then you’d still have Christmas competing with Easter, but if conception is the important bit.
If conception were the bright line, lots of our laws and customs would be different.
If conception is the bright line then our public health priorities are seriously screwed up. Because up to 80% of concepti don’t make it to birth and we’re totally ignoring this pandemic of baby deaths in favor of minor problems like heart disease, HIV, and cancer. And SIDS, birth defects, and miscarriages of clinically evident pregnancies. All minor causes of death compared to the failure to implant pandemic.
About the poll–the wording is horribly convoluted and stretched in order, I suspect, to keep it from being useful.
“Pregnancy counseling center lawsuit
Do you agree with the archdiocese that Baltimore’s law requiring pregnancy centers to post signs stating that they do not provide abortions or birth control referrals is a violation of freedom of speech and religion?”
The trick is to just focus on the first six words–“Do you agree with the archdiocese”. These days, there’s pretty much only one acceptable answer to any question starting out that way.
Perhaps we should just accept this as the latest form of free entertainment: authorities step on RCC’s efforts to abuse children/exploit women/marginalize queers, RCC wails and beats its fists on floor. Everyone grab a beer and gather round.
From what I remember, Jesus became a God when John the Crazy Hobo tried to drown him in the river. That’s when God as a white dove came down from Heaven and pooped out the Being-ness of Goditude onto Jesus’ shoulder.
But he was also a God at birth and up to the point of the drowning, too, I guess? Maybe the whole ‘drowned by a crazy hobo’ was just the part where he got his first Class Level of Cleric.
Something I should follow up – a certain pharmacist in Canberra refused to dispense birth control such as the pill because of his Catholic beliefs… *Cath, want to help me out on this?* Not sure whether he’s still not doing his job…
The RCC have a fucking nerve…
Heroically striving to overcome their deplorable state government and state Board of Ed, the Austin City Council has – unanimously – voted to catch up with Baltimore.
Unfortunately, the penalties for violating this ordinance include neither jail nor lions.
Among this group of wingnuts at least, it seems to be a mixed bag of feelings.
Some are proud while the others just bitch and whine like they always do whenever religious people are made to follow rules like everyone else.