Oh, save me. I’m trying to escape Australia, but apparently a nation of convicts knows how to keep a fella locked up. I’m sitting in an airport in Melbourne, waiting and waiting and waiting for my flight, so that I can sit trapped in a can for hours and hours, with the prospect of a 6 hour layover in the most wretched airport in America, LAX.
I may not emerge from this sane.
Anyway, here’s a terrifying video of me, speaking to a bunch of students at the Freethought University Alliance earlier this week. It may be my last words, since after this trip I may just be reduced to speaking in tongues from the safety of my straitjacket.
Now continue as you were, talk as if I weren’t there.
Oh, right. I’m not.
A couple of clips from the movie Serenity showing a small girl kicking some serious ass, literally:
oh but why not? private prisons, and private schools and private soldiers have worked super-awesomely for the U.S.!
http://www.gop.com/firepelosi/
THIS is the current state of rethuglican appeal.
seriously.
Pelosi with burning fire behind her.
please, I hope it’s clear now why I left the states?
yeah.
River = black belt in WaifFu
‘Tis:
Summer Glau’s formal dance training really came through in her kicking serious ass scenes. Amazingly beautiful and lethal. Nothing but love for that.
It’s called the “No Insurance Company Profits Left Behind” Act.
Well, it looks like you’re out of luck until 2014. :-(
I was mulling over this recently; IIRC, you’ve mentioned in the past that you can’t afford insurance and have missed out on necessary primary care as a consequence. Having been ill recently – with what, thankfully, proved to be only tonsillitis, and cleared up easily once I was prescribed penicillin – I’ve been thinking about how lucky I am to have access to healthcare without having to worry about costs. It turned out that my illness was cheap and easy to clear up – but it might not have been, and if I hadn’t had access to diagnosis and treatment, I wouldn’t have known what it was or whether it might be more serious.
Using state healthcare always makes me feel a little guilty. I feel like I’ve been given an undeserved privilege at the expense of others, simply by virtue of having been born in the UK, something I didn’t choose and didn’t earn.
Is anyone interested in some Filipino food?
Adobo Chicken!
6-8 chicken wings or legs
1/3 vinegar*
a kip of soy sauce
4-5 smashed garlic cloves
1-2 pieces of bay leaf
half a teaspoon of cracked black pepper corns
Put all the ingredients except the bay leaf into a large pan and bring it to a boil.
When the chicken is cooked, put it in a colander and drain it but do not discard the pan of ingredients.
After they drain, fry the chicken; sear and brown them on all sides.
Put it back into the pan of vinegar and soy sauce and bring it to a simmer. Add the bay leaf.
Cook until it is dried.
This recipe will leave you one hella charred pan to clean. It’s an odd taste at first because the chicken is sour but I enjoyed the first time I made it.
* It’s suppose to be coconut vinegar, but for the sake of convenience I just used regular.
Forgot, that’s another part of it – once people have insurance and can start getting preventative care, it greatly reduces the number of people who show up at the ER with really bad things that could have been treated cheaper earlier.
Walton, sometimes I just want to bop you. Stop apologizing for existing, damnit!
River Tam vs. Buffy Summers. Who would win?
Also, cavemen vs. astronauts.
And I should add to #513 that I feel even more guilty, and more of a sense of undeserved privilege, when people here mention being unable to afford healthcare. I’ve worked far less, and contributed far less to society, than a lot of people here: why should I be entitled to free healthcare, while Jadehawk and Lynna, say, go without? I didn’t do anything to “earn” or “deserve” it.
I’m not sure whether I have a coherent point here. I’m just rambling.
Looks like the Democrats are growing bigger pairs after the win.
Here’s Reid’s response to McCain today.
http://democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=323292&
For someone who campaigned on ‘Country First’ and claims to take great pride in bipartisanship, it’s absolutely bizarre for Senator McCain to tell the American people he is going to take his ball and go home until the next election. He must be living in some parallel universe because the fact is, with very few exceptions, we’ve gotten very little cooperation from Senate Republicans in recent years.
“At a time when our economy is suffering and we’re fighting two wars, the American people need Senator McCain and his fellow Republicans to start working with us to confront the challenges facing our country—not reiterating their constant opposition to helping working families when they need it most.”
@ Gyeong –
Adobo chicken is one of my favorites. Thanks for the recipe. . .I haven’t made it in forever. Snagged for the cookbook.
Feynmaniac:
River.
Whedon’s broker.
everybody deserves it by virtue of being human and the capacity for it existing. it’s just that some people are denied what they deserve.
No doubt.
Because you’re a valuable human being?
Really. Really as in really but also as in come the fuck on…
Lynna, Jadehawk, and formerly myself just happen to live in a country where the old system just isn’t working for people anymore. It is damaging people’s ability to contribute rather than rewarding contributions. That’s a huge difference.
But really I just don’t see the world in terms of punishment and reward. Do you actually because you really do seem to like to crawl for it.
Jadehawk, what the hell was the point in that juxtaposition? I don’t see how those two phrases contradict one another, nor how they are even related. What does my having access to unearned healthcare have to do with anyone’s sexual orientation?
River Tam vs. Buffy Summers.
science vs. magic?
@Jadehawk –
I don’t get your #520 – it looks like you have two quotes, but forgot to insert your own comments.
I’m trying to teach you to think in terms of systems and societies, because you seem incapable of doing so.
Feynmaniac wrote:
Hmm, tough call. I’d like it to be River, though; I always liked her more than Buffy. Still, it’d be great to watch.
On that: what are the chances we’ll see Summer Glau in anything else anytime soon? Sadly, she’s starting to show up on those lists of actors who appear (as regulars) only in shows that are painfully short-lived despite being cult favourites.
Oh… I just realized I didn’t mean to say formerly any more up there because I changed the rest of that sentence to focus on location rather than having insurance.
It’s been a long day.
Gyeong #514,
A little clarification, if you would be so kind. The only unit of measure I found for “kip” is “A unit of weight equal to 1,000 pounds (455 kilograms).”
Seems excessive for 8 chicken wings.
@513,518: Walton, I trust you appreciate my contribution, as a UK taxpayer, to your NHS treatment :)
I benefited enormously, growing up, from the UK’s excellent system of taxpayer-funded education and healthcare (also transport, rule of law etc.) and hey, I wasn’t even born here! So now I don’t grouse too hard about paying my taxes. One day, touch wood, you’ll be in a similar situation. Remember how you feel now.
But if either of us gets hold of Geoff Hoon or Stephen Byers, we get to give him a thorough kicking* for letting us down. Cab for hire in-bloody-deed. Hmmph. <- irrelevant to non-UK posters. *rhetorically. The Interkwoktion can stand down.
Really? Buffy has slayer strength, year of experience and sanity on her side.
More like science fiction vs. fantasy.
Wash: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
Zoe: We live in a spaceship, dear.
Walton, in more earnest though. Here’s how I would look at it.
You are very young. Younger than I thought even! Maybe you should consider your free healthcare an investment by your contemporaries in your future, and what you may be able to contribute as you live (hopefully) a healthy life.
It has to do with the value system. Do you really feel that on some level you have to earn your very right to be alive from a government or corporate body?
Wowbagger:
Feynmaniac:
There’s no question it would be River. She slaughtered a room full of reavers and was ready to take on armed feds. I’m sorry, there’s just no contest there. As far as sanity, River had insanity and sanity (the latter regained in Serenity) on her side, which she used to great advantage – what about her taking on Jubal Early in Objects in Space? Plus, she beat up Jayne, which is serious icing on the cake. Buffy wouldn’t last two minutes.
Ol’Greg wrote:
Well put.
Walton, that’s a great way of looking at it. It’s a loan, not a gift – and it’s not difficult to repay; all you need do is be a good citizen: pay your taxes and contribute what you can to the advancement of your society.
My dad tells me a kip or “ma kip” is one forth of any unit. It’s a rural term. I meant to say a kip of a cup.
Beat up a god! Defeated the thing that evil hides from! Hello!
Sorry, Janine, I’m sticking with River. Uh oh, it’s a Whedon Rift!
Gyeong, thank you. 1/4 cup seems much more proportionate than a kilopound. Thanks for the recipe, I loves me some sour Asian chicken fare!
Buffy can dust an ubervamp. I am sure she can take care of some reavers.
As Wash said:
Walton, Jadehawk and Ol’Greg said it better, but I still just want to bop you. Your place and time of birth were luck, enjoy the ability to get an education and health care and then do something to repay society’s investment in you. I do not mean for you to devote your life to helping the poor or whatever. Live your life, just remember there are others who do not have as much. Be a mentor, helper, worker, organizer. Have convictions and act on them.
Josh, you are not the only one who gets “too” emotional, you know. (smile)
River Tam would make Buffy cry like a hungry two year old.
While it was quite entertaining having Rain knock out Jayne, Simon was able to keep him in line. And Mal is much more of a bad ass.
Jeffrey D, you are out of your fucking mind. Buffy was the one who sent her lover to hell. She did run away that but she did not cry like a two year old.
Janine, Cap’n Tightpants is fabulous, but Inara could wipe him out in a sword fight, and he wouldn’t stand a chance against River either. Also, Kaylee could guilt him out in two seconds with a look and Zoe often out-warriored him.
Seems excessive for 8 chicken wings.
maybe they meant Moa wings?
Sorry Janine. I normally view your statements with equanimity and head nodding support, but you have slipped the surly bonds of earth on this one – River all the way. Besides, I have been told to go to hell by lots of lovers, no big deal. (smile)
And now to bed, I have a new Sondheim CD crying out for expression in the dark.
Ciao y’all
ooh, buffybot will be disappointed in the results of this flashpoll.
better not tell her about it.
;)
Walton
All the above except I would amend Wowbaggers #539
You only need to be a good citizen and contribute to society. Many people do this without ever being fortunate enough to pay taxes.
Yeah, Inara would take Mal in a sword fight. But Mal would not play by those rules. And Zoe does out warrior Mal but who is the leader? Even if she did disobey his order and marry Wash.
Tried to watch the Serenity death scene, but YouTube just says “An error occurred, please try again later”. I’m getting this a lot recently.
The pictures in the left sidebar. Two of Napoleon, one of Faux News (We distort, you comply)…
<lightbulb position=”above head”>
At least the Hollywood ones are assumed to be that, yes…
Almost. :-) She’s mostly swiping around shoulders and kicking heads.
Beautiful, yes, but she still reminds me of the gōngfǔ guy in the Wing Tsun movie I’ve linked to at least twice… B-)
And we can only hope it will somehow, one day, turn out to be a No Insurance Company Profits’ Behinds Left act… :-
<eyeroll>
<voiceless pharyngeal trill>
“Choose” and “earn” are not the right words. You deserve it by virtue of being human. You have a right to it.
At the expense of what others? Jadehawk doesn’t pay taxes across the sea to support the NHS, or so I hope.
Janine:
:D One of my favourite eps, that. I really did like the way Mal’s character was written; the blend of disillusionment and passion was great and Nathan Fillion played it beautifully. Plus, he did get naked in Trash.
Some Toni Childs:
JeffreyD, I did not tell you to go to hell. Just out of you fucking mind. Let’s keep our insults straight here. Beside, you left the orbit of this world when you claimed that Buffy would cry. I just could not let that stand.
Enjoy your CD. I’ve long had a weakness for this song.
Pfff, Buffy has killed hundreds of vampires, often many at a time. Count in miscellaneous demons and the body count is well over a thousand. And she did take on The Initiative commandos and kicked their asses in 30 seconds. Even if River managed to kill her (unlikely) she has managed to come back from the dead twice (take that Jesus!).
Yeah, I like how in Serenity he ends up shooting something like 3 unarmed people. None of that Greedo shot first crap.
oh and as far as River kicking ass goes, this is my favorite vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SvDhNxqwyE&NR=1
Plus, he did get naked in Trash.
You have to love it when a plan works.
LOL! He’s turning the Reptilians’ patriotic rhetoric back at them! For the first time in ten fucking years! :-D :-D :-D
Free at las’, free at las’… :-)
Django.
ROTFLMAO!
Like Conan the Destroyer?
Or Godzilla, in fact.
What’s so hard to spell about ” :-) “? :-)
No such thing.
Seriously. There is no wing – there’s not even a joint surface on the shoulder girdle.
Actually, Walton, you know what?
Scratch that.
The society you live in has a vital interest in your health: first, so that you don’t spread contagious diseases; second, so that you stay capable of productive, tax-generating work.
You’re being oppressed and exploited, Walton. You’re being used for the socialist good of others. B-) B-) B-) And Mr Burns says “excellent” in the background.
My favourite Firefly scene:
How Jayne became a member of Serenity
JAYNE: You want I should shoot ’em now, Marco?
MARCO: Wait until they tell us where they put the stuff.
JAYNE: That’s a good idea. A good idea. Tell us where the stuff is at so I can shoot ya.
MAL: Point of interest. Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.
This is pretty nifty – it’s a little interactive you fill out with current basic information to see how the health care bill will affect your coverage and benefits.
<sigh> Italics failure.
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet: Sean Hannity can has scandal! Hundreds of kilobucks donated to his charity and… gone to expenses.
I’m reliably informed Dr Who has done it nine times so far?
I’m getting a classical education ^_^
Feynmaniac, next to Objects In Space, Out of Gas is my favourite ep. I loved the backstories, and the scene with Jayne is hilarious. Speaking of Jayne, Jaynestown cracks me up.
MUDDERS: Our love for him now ain’t hard to explain The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne
BUSKER: Now here is what separates heroes From
common folk like you and I The man they
call Jayne He turned ’round his plane
And let that money hit the sky
JAYNE: Ohhh, I’ll be gorrammed. That’s where that
cash went. I stole that money from Higgins
just like the song says, lifted me one of
his hovercraft. But I got tagged by
anti-aircraft, started losing altitude.
Had dump them strongboxes to stay airborne.
Oh…60,000, untraceable. And I drop it right
square in the middle of mud-farmer central.
WASH: We gotta go to the crappy town where I’m the hero!
I hope that’s “reliably informed” as in “I have bootleg dvds of every episode, and can spend hours discussing the personality differences between each Doctor”, or you’re going to lose a lot of geek cred. ;)
So, I just had someone in meatspace inquire as to the origin of my nickname and it occurred to me that an explanation may be in order here as well.
Just to clarify, “boygenius” is not soi-disant in origin.
Starting from the beginning: Elroy, boy genius is a character from the Jetsons cartoon. I acquired the nickname because of a physical resemblance to the little scamp. My fraternity at NDSU used the same method of choosing pledge’s nicknames as the Delta Tau Chi’s in Animal House. “Elroy, boy genius” had more beer thrown at the screen than any other suggestions. Unlike the majority of fraternity nicknames, this one stuck.
For the last 22 years, most of my friends and acquaintances have referred to me as Elroy or some derivative thereof; Elwood, El Dorado, Elbow, Elmo, Elrond, or just boygenius. The only people who call me by my given name are my parents, business associates, and law enforcement officials.
Anyway, I have been used “boygenius” as a username and online ‘nym ever since. My given name is the most popular male name for the years 1970-71; in my class of ’88, there were 10 of 184 seniors that shared my name. boygenius is fairly unique, so I don’t have to go by “My_Real_Name_6943” or some such.
I’ll stop rambling now. Just wanted everyone to know that I do not consider myself some sort of self-styled genius. (Although the frivolous and inane content of my comments should have made that clear to anyone who has been paying attention.)
Do you make her call you the “Big Bad”?
Elroy, boygenius:
Elwood P. Dowd would be a cool nick. :D
River would beat Buffy one on one. But Buffy would always have the Scoobies backing her up, and together they’d contain River, no problem.
Jeez. One of the major themes of that show was strength in community.
Caine, I have heard them all. If there is a cultural reference to it, I’ve heard it. Elwood P. Dowd didn’t resonate the first time I heard it but once it was explained that Dowd was drunken and delusional, something clicked. ;)
Boygenius, Elwood P. Dowd wasn’t actually delusional, the Pookah just wasn’t visible to anyone else. And I don’t think Harvey would be a bad drinking partner at all. I’m biased though, I love the movie Harvey.
PZ, I don’t think it’s that clearcut. The Firefly crew would back River in a fight; they did so on more than one occasion. Definitely a rift issue. ;p
Your frat gave nicknames? My frat only managed a botch reading of my real name, and it was given to me by the pledges.
Janine Wrote:
Yeah, I didn’t either, really. But I was a terrible person and a crunchy con at the time, so I wasn’t exactly going to flip out over a lesbian dying. I’m pretty detached from the situation overall, it just strikes me as a dick move.
Caine, Flower of Evil (I think)
I’m sure Buffy was a lot of their first Whedon series. It was mine as well, at least. And if that’s what he was going to do, just… say that. Trolling your fans just because you can is at the least a cheap, unfunny laugh.
Bonus points for adding Tara to the opening credits with the Scoobies in the same episode, incidentally.
Feynmaniac Wrote:
Out of curiosity, have you argued about Tropes in detail before? No is fine too, but if not, it explains why you’re not one to look at a trope’s self contradiction
Using True ARt is Angsty indicates to me that death for unrelated reasons that strikes gay people count, and that specifically, “Anyone can die” (In a word, no, in Buffy.) omits that trope. If a gay person died in Platoon, or Mobile Suit Gundam 08th MS Team, it would not be Bury Your Gays, because both kill off a huge number of characters. Buffy does not.
Caine,
Oh. I’ve never seen the movie, just had someone explain the character to me years ago.
I consider myself a damn good drinking partner, for what it’s worth.
My favorite Firefly scene. It also shows Mal’s negotiating talents.
Boygenius, please, please, put Harvey on the top of your “to be viewed” list. You won’t be disappointed, it’s a wonderful comedy and pokes gentle but fabulous and pointed fun at society.
‘Tis, I can’t watch vids until I get off this damn dial-up. Which episode?
River, by herself, could take Buffy and a crowd of her friends. Provided it was one of the few occasions where River stood up and fought, rather than needing the crew to rescue her helpless lunacy.
River reminds me of my “theory” that martial arts, especially kick-fighting, were developed by women, since women have stronger and longer legs, proportionally. Her boots do make fearsome weapons.
Which reminds me of a long discussion of the X-man Wolverine that I recall when Christians argue the attributes of God and Jesus. I just say, “I have had longer and more logical discussions about comic book characters, thank you. Knowing a lot about something doesn’t make it real.”
Try as I might I just never got into Buffy and by the time Firefly came out I no longer had a television. It has been however many years since before that show Angel started that I have not had cable television. I just buy seasons of things that I liked from netflix or online. I don’t seem to like television shows much, and when I do I like comedy, and when I like comedy it also seems to be disproportionately British. Or Japanese.
My friends, even my mother, tried to get me into Buffy but something just didn’t click :/ I don’t know. Generally me and tv don’t click anyway. I resent those tv people for burdening me with their lives :P
Gyeong:
Yes, the active chapter “voted” on the pledge’s nicknames. We also had it driven into us that the proper reference was “fraternity”, not “frat”. After all, you don’t call your “country” a “cunt”, do you?
Ahh. The days of living in a house full of little boys trying to play grown-ups. Definitely one of the most eye-opening experiences in my life. The politics, the back-room negotiations regarding house policy. I lost more of my naivete and innocence living in a fraternity house for two years than I did living on the road following Grateful Dead for six years.
(WTF, you allowed pledges to give nicknames to active members? The impudence, it burns.)
Ol’Greg, I know Serenity can be netflixed, and all of Firefly should be netflixable too. I’d say at least check out the first ep of Firefly, you’ll know right away whether it’s going to click with you or not.
Rutee, I said I had mixed feelings about the killing of Tara. I liked Tara. During the time she was on, well except when Glory took away her sanity, Tara was the calm center in the maelstrom of the series. I would have like for her to be kept in the show.
Given that, what else could have been done to push Willow into becoming Dark Willow. The rage and anger that was exhibited would have been cheap if it was anything other than a profound loss.
That is why I said I had mixed feelings. When you get down to it, Tara was the character I could best relate and best like. But any other reason for Willow’s turn would have been hollow.
Caine,
It’s from the “Train Robbery” episode, the bit where Mal tries to give the money back to Niska’s henchman:
Mal: Now, this is all the money Niska gave us in advance. You bring it back to him. Tell him the job didn’t work out. We’re not thieves. But we are thieves. Point is, we’re not taking what’s his. Now we’ll stay out of his way as best we can from here on in. You explain that’s best for everyone, okay?
First henchman: Keep the money. Use it to buy a funeral. It doesn’t matter where you go or how far you fly. I will hunt you down, and the last thing you see will be my blade.
Mal: Darn.
[Kicks first henchman into running engine. Second henchman is brought forward]
Mal: Now, this is all the money Niska gave us in advance…
Second henchman: Oh, I get it! I’m good. Best thing for everyone. I’m right there with ya.
‘Tis, oh, Crow goes in the engine! That’s a brilliant scene, one of my faves too.
Of course not! Dr Who was never aired in Austria. That particular bit of information I took from a comic, linked to from Pharyngula several times, that shows a pair of missionaries showing up at the door of a Dr Who fan and getting verbally trounced. “At least I have video evidence!”
Also, I’m not a geek. I’m a nerd. =8-)
Don’t you mean “count”?
I suppose my fraternity experience is vastly different. The national office didn’t permit houses, so we had unofficial ones. Since it’s co-ed, the dramas are quite different. The things that changed us the most were the 6-8 hour mandatory pledge meetings and preparation for our pledge play and banquet.
That particular class was quite impudent, but for the most part we are suppose to baby them.
Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom,
Please do not make up quotes, put them into blockquote and then say I wrote them.
I will show you the courtesy of responding to what you actually wrote and not some strawman I made up.
No, I have not.
Killing off a character that just happens to be gay and killing off a gay character to have the “moral” of the story to be ‘homosexuality is bad’ are obviously two different things. The latter is reprehensible. I don’t see anything wrong with the way they chose to define the trope. If you do, please feel free to explain.
Ummmm…yeah, A LOT of character in Buffy die.
Jenny Calendar, Anya, Angel, Spike, Buffy’s mother, Principal Snyder, etc.
There has to be a special mention for Principal Flutie.
Not a good way to go….
“I know Principal Flutie would have said, ‘Kids need understanding. Kids are human beings.’ That’s the kind of wooly-headed liberal thinking that leads to being eaten.” – Principal Snyder
A pox on you, Feynmaniac. I was cutting-and-pasting that quote but you beat me to it – ya bastard.
I’m fixing your bible
I know Principal Snyder would have said, ‘Kids need control. Kids need discipline.’ That’s the kind of wooly-head conservative thinking that leads to being eaten.
Gyeong,
What fraternity are you/were you in?
I know that co-ed “fraternities” exist but I don’t believe they bear any resemblance to the one that I joined. Alpha Tau Omega was a “social” fraternity at the time I pledged. By the time I became active, the national office had decided we were to become a “leadership development” fraternity.
They changed all the rules overnight. No more kegs, no more alcohol purchased with house funds, no more underage members or guests allowed to drink in the house. I was nonplussed, to say the least.
The proverbial straw was when they changed the fine for smoking pot in the house from $50 to $150. I walked away and never looked back.
The concept of a co-ed fraternity eludes me. The rampant misogyny I observed would have driven any self-respecting female away. I think “fraternity” is a misnomer for a co-ed organization. Sororiternity, maybe? Fraterority?
Hey, River got short shrift there! No fair. She did have a good idea, but the best fix is to rip the pages out and throw them in the trash.
Was that the fraternity that got banned at my school? I honestly can’t remember.
I avoided the holy fuck out of anyone in a -ity.
I… wrote… poetry.
‘Nuff said.
Do you make her call you the “Big Bad”?
yes, yes i do…
;)
“Spike! you’re covered is sexy wounds!…”
I was in Gamma Delta Iota. I watch from a distance with bemusement.
“Spike! you’re covered is sexy wounds!…”
That is just so wrong in so many ways.
River or Buffy? Depends on which one is the star of the show, and where, in the multi-episode story arc, the fight takes place.
It’s highly possible. What school/year?
You were wise beyond your years. :)
Jadehawk:
I *loved* that scene.
RIVER: Bible’s broken. Contradictions, false
logistics – doesn’t make sense.
BOOK: No, no. You – you can’t…
RIVER: So we’ll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God’s creation of Eden. 11 inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of 11 11 times, but always comes out one. Noah’s ark is a problem.
BOOK: Really?
RIVER: We’ll have to call it “early quantum state
phenomenon.” Only way to fit 5000 species
of mammal on the same boat. (rips out page)
BOOK: Give me that. River, you don’t…fix the Bible.
RIVER: It’s broken. Doesn’t make sense.
Make me call him the Big Bad? Hah. He wouldn’t dare.
River’s got no form – what, she goes nuts with a sword after watching creepy cartoons a couple of times? Against humans? Even if some of them are very, very angry. Pfffffft. Buffy would beat her. And she’d do it while being hilariously quippy and wearing heels.
Janine #600
Yeah, I’m now a GDI as well. The hazing and the hell-week were a cinch.
Buffybot:
“I wanna hurt you, but I can’t resist the sinister attraction of your cold and muscular body!”
…and now you know the real reason i moved to NZ…
;P
Buffybot:
Sorry Buffybot, but River has exquisite form, you can see the dance in every lethal move.
Not what I meant.
Janine:
Same here. I don’t know that I was amused as often as I was appalled. I’ve never seen the point of -ity’s.
Angel.
Buffybot, I know, I was just being a snot. Sorry. ;)
That scene with River and Book was full of awesome. But I also liked this exchange.
Webs: Oh, my God!
Buffy: Oh, your God, what?
Webs: Oh, well, you know, not my God, because I defy him and all of his works. Does he exist? Is there word on that, by the way?
Buffy: Nothing solid.
Season Seven was worth it just for Conversations With Dead People.
Gyeong,
Alpha Phi Omega, the community service one.
Our school had an Alpha Tau Omega chapter till last year. I thought about joining once. Alpha Phi Omega had always been a strictly business fraternity. For this reason we have constant meetings and legislations.
We started off as all male, then included females at the end of the sixties. We’re pretty much inclusive of anyone. So I suppose the climate for our female brothers (we call them brothers still) is a little bit different. My big brother and little brothers are females so far.
“Yes, the active chapter “voted” on the pledge’s nicknames. We also had it driven into us that the proper reference was “fraternity”, not “frat”. After all, you don’t call your “country” a “cunt”, do you?”
Don’t you mean “count”?
I just had a vision of a Muppet like you wouldn’t believe.
I am not going to drag up that um discussion again just because I’m behind in my reading, but: Josh, yeah. And the best sorta-counter to that was from whoever proposed that TA Randi might be working against something like PTSD.
I grew up bi in the 1950s and ’60s, and I swear I never quite figured out that it’s a real thing—orientation, not just indecisiveness—till I was in college. And then I had to figure out that it was just fine for me, thanks. That followed closely on my figuring out that the Catholic church was definitely not all that, and my becoming atheist. Those were two, well, three separate but closely connected (hmph) epiphanies.
It was amazing how many things fell into place in that year. And the funny thing is that I’d been actively suicidal until shortly before that. After that I was still miserable a lot but it gradually sank in that the problem wasn’t me.
Fortunately I got my feet under me after that, at least enough to stand up got myself when I was threatened with being 86ed from the gay bar* for kissing a man. (It only now occurs to me that he wasn’t similarly threatened.
*There was only one in that town. Next one was an hour away. I and my crowd danced till closing time there three nights a week and I could actually tell the bartender “My usual, please” and get it.
I was still gobsmacked when my bestest bud—she lived upstairs from the bar—told me that “other people had been complaining” that they couldn’t figure out if I was butch or femme. Huh? Well, no makeup, hair down past my ass, wafflestompers, often jeans, sometimes a gaudy shirt, and sometimes a pair of cream fake-doeskin pants, cream turtleneck, and brown suede vest with beaded fringe to the knee. Sometimes purple suede knee-boots with fringe and my sister’s purple tunic & tight pants.
I still miss those boots. My mother talked me into buying them. Thanks, Mom!
I told Friend, “Just tell them I’m a hippie.” I guess it worked; we all stayed friends/dated each other.
So yeah, shit from both sides; just different kinds of shit. The occasionally-fatal kind generally came from the “normals.”
I had to look that up. Good one. I should make Lambda Omicron Lambda.
Ron Sullivan:
Hahahaha. All of that sounds familiar. It’s odd (I suppose) that I tend to being femme when I’m with lesbians, and do the no makeup, jeans thing when I’m in a mixed crowd or hanging out with the guys. There’s no particular guarantee of that though, and I’ve found I have inadvertently confused people on that score as well.
Yep, works for me.
For the most part, same here. Two friends I did lose over being bisexual and refusing to “get off the fence” were lesbians. That one still hurts to this day.
My mistake, I apologize. I had other questions, but then it’d just further muddy the waters, and like I said, I really only focus on Tara’s death at all because of Whedon’s statements to fans, not because of the events that occur in the story.
It’s cool. I didn’t notice until I got into an argument on a very subjective trope (Has to do with game difficulty).
Um, they muddied their own waters by adding True Art is Angsty, and adding evades like “Well the gay person was too good for this world”, etc. It’s a little hard to say they were both evil and too good for this sinful world (With a link tot hat specific trope). By being wishy washy like that, and not at least saying “If Word of God is ‘Because I hate gay people’, the story events don’t matter” Or somethign else. Because of that addition, the only really strong way to deny it is if indeed everyone dies.
The body count over 8 seasons of one hour episodes is lower then the body count of a 7 hour anime series or a 3 hour movie. My standards for “Everyone can die” are relative. If you had 96 hours of story and want to claim that particular title, you should probably have a commensurate body count. True, people can die, but Anyone CAn Die, in my book (And it’s a more wishy washy trope lately) requires a fair bit of actual death, preferably without typically skipping over the Scoobies.
Granted, my standards for this may be strict.
Holy crap, this sounds like the setup for a joke:
Does Family Action include dressing yourself in a diaper for sexual purposes? If you pay a hooker for it wouldn’t it be Commercial Action? If Michele Bachmann agrees to participate, wouldn’t it then become Batshit Crazy Action?
But should we really Focus on any of that?
ronsullivan and Caine,
I have long opined that I was born a generation too late. Why, oh, why did I have to come of age in the 80’s? My generation had nothing to rally ’round. There was no social strife. Nothing to fight for or rebel against, other than conformity itself.
*loads a bowl and pouts*
I don’t think I’d make any more sense in the past than I do now.
Wow,
I’m gone for awhile and it takes forever to catch up.
I’m happy about our tiny little health care bill, but I’m infuriated by some friends of mine who are screaming all over facebook about socialism and government run health care. These are educated people who should know the difference between a bill that largely serves to regulate the health care industry and an actual enactment of socialized health care. Sometimes you just want to duct tape someone’s mouth shut and force them to listen to a lecture on what actual socialism is. Grrrr.
Boygenius, I imagine most generations have had similar feelings. There are always things to rally ’round. I was very young in the ’60s, I turned 10 in November of ’67. I was old enough to grok what was going on though. To be honest, I think there was a lot of apathy in the 70s, a lot of disillusionment, especially towards the end of that decade. Even so, you couldn’t pry my hippie card away from me. ;D
Was it the same reason the one at my school got banned?
But, but, we don’t have teh plague.
Ron Sullivan, were you at the California Jam in Ontario, Calif. in ’74?
Haha… I know.
I did end up in an honors society that used greek letters. Not quite the same though.
I really don’t remember because now that I think of it there were two that were banned pretty close to each other. This would have been 2000 ish? Some… scandal.
But.. but.. how often did you get to rally ’round something that would get you beaten or shot by a National Guardsman* in 1990?
Try being a teenager in the ’80’s.
Boygenius, hahahaha, okay, you got me.
You guys had way more exciting stuff in your decades. Since I’m still in college, I’ve only been in one protest. Most recently in March.
Speaking of plagues, I just watched a doco called Secrets of the 10 Plagues, which was looking for scientific explanations for the plagues that Yahweh visited upon Egypt.
One idea is that blue-green algae turned the rivers red, forcing the frogs out of the water, then the frogs died, allowing insect numbers to explode and spread disease.
It sounds pretty groovy. I wonder if it’s true…
Oops, forgot my *
*We went to war in 1990, but there was no draft implemented. If you want today’s youth to mobilize, radicalize, and protest/riot; just reinstate compulsory military service.
Gyeong Hwa Pak:
There have been protests and revolts throughout the ages; any one of us could look at what has happened previously and feel somewhat envious. In reality, those events are never quite as grand as they are cracked up to be. What always does matter is people caring about what is going on, and that part of it does seem to have slowed down.
What were you protesting?
This
And also, anti-gay hate crimes, and various racisit events held by students in our school system. And workers right, and immigrant students rights.
boygenius:
Yeah, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen again. Vietnam was a nightmare, in every sense of the word. My husband’s (this was well before we married) number was low, but he had plans to fight if called. I remember well being part of the silver bracelet campaign to remember those who were MIA. I still remember the name of the Lieutenant on mine. Much later, his name appeared on the wall.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, well done! Keep up the good
workprotesting!@ambulocetacean –
I just wanted to say thanks for what you wrote earlier, about getting how it sounded (the whole “dispassionate” thing). I regret I came on so strong with you; the point stands, but it’s a hot button for me (clearly). Must work on not letting it get so easily pushed – I can see you didn’t mean it that way. Mea culpa.
/”that” conversation
Never say never, but yeah, I hope you’re right.
My father was called up. If he hadn’t failed his hearing test, you may never have had the pleasure of having me type at you. :)
I haven’t heard about the silver bracelet campaign before. I shall google it.
Hitchens on catholic child abuse: Tear down that wall !
Oh! Ssssh, Walton @ 513,
As someone remarked elsewhere – I lost the link – the US has very painfully arrived at where the UK was in 1911, Germany sometime in the 1880s.
In those 99 years your various ancestors have had plenty of time to leave the country, always supposing that they agree(d) with you.
One of the things which is supposed to show that H.sapiens is brighter than the average earthworm is our ability to extrapolate from our own experience to the wider world. Empathy helps that process along, of course.
You just saw for yourself how you were out of commission for several days for want of a very small amount of action on your part and a medicine which, even, pre-dates the NHS. Daft,really, because that care was already there, already budgeted for. Now, suppose you had been a firefighter or an immigration lawyer: cover for you in an emergency would have cost a damn sight more than a very modest amount of penicillin.
Despite your lapses into an earlier version of yourself I still think that you’d produce a better cost-benefit analysis than the Iraq war.
So I choose to support, for instance, preventive medicine above the C19-style adventures of narcissists. After all, I’m on two preventive regimes myself and have every intention of still being here in my 90s.
I’m glad I live in a country where such calculations are possible – give or take being hit by a bus – and hope that the US soon starts to reap the benefits – in productivity alone, for the capitalists amongst us – of its first baby step.
Boygenius, it was POW-MIA bracelets, I don’t recall as to their being an actual official name. They were cuff type bracelets, engraved in black with the names of POWs and MIAs. The goal was to hand out those bracelets and have them worn until all those people were accounted for.
Hi Josh,
No worries. I was initially taken aback, but I quickly realised how arrogant my post sounded – and that it was a reflection of an unconscious arrogance in my thinking.
Even if the word “dispassionate” didn’t have all those other connotations (of which I was entirely unaware), it still wouldn’t excuse the presumption of superiority/greater clarity that lay behind my use of it.
I have had my consciousness raised a little, which is a good thing, but it’s a pity it had to happen via me making an ass of myself and offending other posters. Live and learn, eh? :)
ambulocetacean:
I don’t think you were near the ass you think you were. You were unaware of how certain words and attitudes came across; we all have moments like that. That you’ve had your consciousness raised is a truly good thing, and thank you for that, very much, because there are those who would refuse to learn.
Whoa, you’re debating Buffy vs River? This is officially my second biggest geek moment to be had from Pharyngula.
The first being when we were all sitting around the bar at the GAC and spontaneously started quoting lines from the Young Ones.
BTW. River FTW!
Bride:
Okay, it’s official. I do love you. :D
Caine,
For some reason your bracelets made me think of this Dixie Chicks song.
If I ever get to DC, the first place I want to go is the Wall.
Hi Caine, Thanks for your kind words :)
boygenius, I’ve saved the link for when I get an actual connection rather than dial-up. The Wall is, well, to say it’s overwhelming strikes me as trite. I don’t know how to describe it.
“Oh dear. This calls for a very special blend of psychology … and EXTREME VIOLENCE!”
which is where River comes in. Hmm, I seem to have conflated the two…
You mean all y’all good folks in Almont haven’t rallied together to demand wireless broadband yet?
Geez, A guy would think you live in the-middle-of-no-nothin’ or something!
The Wall, yeah, I wanna go and I don’t wanna go in equal measure. I just feel I have to.
Caine,
I love you too. Leaving aside geography, marriage and sexual orientation I think we’d be smoking hot together. I’m a cheap hussy though because I have also promised myself in the past to no less than Patricia, MA Jeff, Josh OSG and Janine.
Having said that I’m saving myself for Sven.
boygenius, the folks in Almont are happy with their eccentric little place in the hills. :D The cable stops in New Salem, Almont is too off the beaten path. Ah, we’re going to have to fork over the money for satellite. As soon as snow is off the roof, it will be done.
Just so you have an idea, this is the Mayor of Almont: http://moblog.net/view/272764/the-mayor-of-almont Those were taken in ’07, but he’s still our Mayor, and a very interesting person.
I know just how you feel.
Caine: Two friends I did lose over being bisexual and refusing to “get off the fence” were lesbians. That one still hurts to this day.
Yeah, ouch. Social ostracism is a different weapon: the kind that lets the target do its dirty work. I think the only life-saver in that regard is that by the time we got the crap from gays/lesbians, we’d had to learn about defending ourselves from similar crap coming from straights.
Ron Sullivan, were you at the California Jam in Ontario, Calif. in ’74?
No, dang. (Lord of the Pies was at Altamont, tho’. And I was about an hour from Woodstock and didn’t go there either.) We have a standing joke about how we live in the cultural center of the universe* and can therefore miss at least three world-shaking concerts a week, not to mention other kinds of art.
*That’s OK, no thanks, NYC scares the shit out of me and it’s not its rep; it’s just so damned many humans in one place. When I’ve been there, actually, people were extraordinarily kind and helpful. LA gives me the willies but for different reasons, and less intensely. Go figure.
bg: But.. but.. how often did you get to rally ’round something that would get you beaten or shot by a National Guardsman* in 1990?
After Jackson & Kent State, I remember going over to my Russian History prof’s office and talking it out for a long long time. (We’d bonded, I guess; good friends.) We were both shaken up. After that, I made a decision about which end of the sights I wanted to be on, and mostly stayed away from rallies and demos. I really don’t like being in crowds, anyway.
Except for a few, like the Harrisburg 8, um, 6 stuff (partly because I knew and liked a couple of them) and some of the early anti-Iraq war stuff and OH yeah when was that big DC thing where there were 900,000 of us back in Nixontimes and the KPFA march in Berkeley maybe 10 years ago, which might have been the best evah because of the Dixieland marching band… “We Shall Overcome” and the Internationale, among others, are greatly enhanced by Dixieland jazz.
Really, you kids have opportunities we never dreamed of, and better rally music is chief among them.
Bride, yes, we would be smokin’ hot. I have no problem with hussys, although I do take issue with you characterizing yourself as cheap. And I have no problem with…complex relationships. Now, you best go chase Sven. :D
I think I’ve finally caught up on all of this thread, and I’m glad I read it all before commenting.
Josh,
I can understand your argument that LGBT folk who have a high probability of safety and security if they come out should do so to both normalize people who don’t conform to rigid heterosexuality and to give strength and hope to people whose situations might put their safety or lives in jeopardy if they come out.
Personally, I feel like it’s simply not my call to make. From the privileged position of a straight person, I think Randi could have easily come out earlier and probably not have suffered for it, but I don’t know that and I don’t know him. I’m impressed that you came out in high school in the 80s. I was in high school in the mid-late 90s and only one girl was out as a lesbian and I don’t recall any of the boys being out as gay. Bisexuality wasn’t even discussed. My high school wasn’t small, but it was in a conservative suburb. Since then, several of my male acquaintances have come out. One of them confessed his homosexuality to me very late in high school and I regret that I was less than supportive. In my defense, I was still harboring feelings that the bible was absolutely right on moral issues and that his soul was in danger. We’ve talked since then, and I apologized profusely for my ignorance and judgmental attitude.
All I can say about Rorshach’s initial comment comparing the Tiger Woods situation to Randi’s is that I read it the same way that Josh did. Even when you say you’re not drawing a moral equivalence between the two situations, juxtaposing them to address Josh’s question definitely felt like moral equivalence to me. Later clarifications were somewhat helpful, but the analogy was very bad to begin with.
To the women (can’t remember if any men said anything about it) who are bisexual. I’m sorry that y’all have had a hard time defending your sexuality, and if I look within myself, I’m probably similar to Bride of Shrek in that I tend to think of people as being with heterosexual or homosexual based on their relationship at the moment. For me, it’s hard to wrap my head around being attracted to both men and women, and that’s my own personal shortcoming that I can hopefully get rid of with time.
Auntie Ron:
Yep, all too true. It took me long enough to figure that out, and there were hurts along the road. Those hurts helped me on the road to explanation and tolerance though.
Aaw. I was at Ontario, never made it to Altamont, that would have been a hell of a thing. Those three days in Ontario, possibly the most three stoned days of my life. Couldn’t swing Schroedinger’s cat without falling over a stash.
Mm, I’m a native Southern Californian, spent most of my life there; I never had any use for LA. Nasty place full of nasty people, for the most part, but that’s just my take. I was always hanging at the beach, from Doheny to Corona Del Mar. I remember when Doheny was actually a good beach, before it got invaded by LAites and turned into a fenced off mess.
#558 by Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM – “JeffreyD, I did not tell you to go to hell. Just out of you fucking mind. Let’s keep our insults straight here.”
Janine, MoFM,OM, your insults are always clear and concise. (smile) My reply was unclear, I meant to rift off Buffy sending her boyfriend to hell by pointing out that I had metaphorically been sent there quite often by girlfriends. I should not try to be semi-clever when semi-alert. Tried to be a wit, but only made it half way. In any case, Buffy would need the Kleenex after River got through with her (throwing fuel on the fire again and ducking). All kidding aside, at least I can find Buffy sexy. I always feel like River is a child and thus has no sex appeal for me. Yeah, yeah, I know it is not about sex appeal and I am a miserable pig (grin).
Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum has always been a favourite of mine. Big Sondheim fan. My two most often listened to songs by Sondheim are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPopeuMUtS4&feature=PlayList&p=97BCAC9DBB8C58CC&index=8 with Tim Curry singing, and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eZ8Lvg3skw&feature=fvw with Patti Lupone doing the vocal.
BTW, any Dead Like Me Fans out there?
boygenius, Caine, Fleur du mal is right, The Wall experience is impossible to describe. I would suggest going the first time in the early evening. I have only ever managed to visit it twice – just a little too much for me.
OK, need to mainline some coffee.
From what I hear, the poverty draft is working well enough.
Jon Stewart: Don’t mess with textbooks
Windy, yes, but that’s always been true. The draft lottery in regard to Vietnam, it was singular. It wasn’t just the lottery, either. One friend of mine who survived Vietnam, he had a choice. He could choose to do prison time or go to Vietnam. He chose to go to war. He told me later, he wished he had chosen prison.
Walton,
I almost forgot this. I am glad to hear that you finally went to the doctor and got the medicine you needed to get better. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you are not waylaid by disease again before your finals, but if you are go to the doctor! Antibiotics can clear up bacterial infections so fast. I had a sore throat so bad a couple of years ago that I could barely talk through the pain. It was so great to go to the doctor and be told that, yes, antibiotics would fix me* and I could get them in liquid form.
*The doctor at the campus health clinic offered to give me antibiotics after he told me I had a severe cold. I was sitting there flabbergasted. Why would he offer me something that would serve no purpose other than to make me a breeding ground for drug-resistant bacteria? The doctor said most people want some sort of prescription. Morons.
Oops, in #660 I should have made it clear that the sore throat was tonsillitis and the severe cold was at a different visit.
JeffreyD:
My first time was about 40 minutes before sunset. I’ll never forget it.
POW-MIA braceletts-my sister had one when we were in High School. I remember seeing TV footage of the solider named on the braceletts when he returned to the states. (who knows, maybe it was John McCain?) I wonder if she still has it?
The Braceletts
Their History
windy,
Seems that way. Doesn’t this go hand in hand with issues of education and the populist rage of the Tea Party movement? All of these people who are mostly middle and working class are out there waving flags for patriotism while their sons and daughters are sacrificed in needless wars of aggression? I’ve run into so many young vets who blindly follow the flag, so joining the military was an honorable solution to poverty. If these young people weren’t growing up in a culture that regarded fighting in the military as the ultimate patriotic act (and creating an atmosphere where blind patriotism is a desirable quality) would they still be joining the military in such numbers?
On that note, the officer corps is looking more attractive everyday. The job search is dragging on and on, and I could get benefits and a pension from the military…
The Wall
It Starts at Your Feet and Rises Above Your Head
The Power of a Name
Pygmy Loris:
It was attractive to my mother when I was 10, too (that would be 1967). She’d be an officer, and the posting was to the Virgin Islands. Not bad at all. In the end, she decided against, and struggled on for a bit. Things eventually looked up, and stayed up. For me, the problem with the military is whether or not you can put your conscience on hold.
It’s different for everyone, I suppose, but one thing I really dislike is the military looking good because people don’t have other viable choices.
Hey Caine
I see what you did there.
You getting post No 666. Coincidence- I think NOT!!
Caine,
That’s the thing. I don’t think I could put my conscience on hold. It’s what keeps me out of the recruiter’s office everyday.
Bride:
I have my secrets, a woman must maintain a bit of mystery, right?
I’ve got a question for people who are more tech savvy than me. How do I leave comments using typepad on Jadehawk’s blog?
Pygmy Loris:
I am really sorry you’re in this position in the first place. I hope things look up for you, quickly. You’re in my thoughts, for all the good that will do.
@ Pygmy Loris. I don’t know about Typepad, but I left comments there by clicking on the options dropdown and then clicking on “Name/URL” or whatever. Then you can just type in your name.
Pygmy Loris:
I don’t know from typepad; when I first tried to comment on Jadehawk’s blog, it was a no go, and the same for many tries after. What worked for me (I use Firefox) was to enable 3rd party cookies and disable ‘ghostery’, a firefox addon. After I enabled 3rd party cookies, I saw the comment box, the captcha, all that.
Thanks Caine! Turning off third party cookies worked.
crap, I meant turning on third party cookies.
Caine,
I’ve put myself in this position to a degree. Letting anxiety interfere with my school work means that I haven’t finished my degree yet and I’m floating in the liminal space between grad school and the real world. I’m overqualified for most jobs and underqualified for most in my field. Also, the recession hit my area six or seven years ago. Most of the local job openings are for nurses and physicians. I’m neither. Unfortunately I have bills to pay in the meantime that won’t go away.
It is an English dish. There is a not hugely informative wikipedia article here.
The origin of the name is unclear.
Pygmy Loris, being overqualified for most jobs is its own kind of hell; it’s a piss and a half being turned down because of that. About the only thing I know that really works in that regard is close to begging, and that is not a good place to be in. As for the recession, yeah, unfortunately, I hear you loud and clear.
Any hope of working outside your immediate area, or accepting work somewhere else?
Once we’ve voted and/or schismed on the Buffy/River issue, we can get down to the serious argument: Gilgamesh vs. Odysseus, freestyle wrestling. Place your bets.*
*automatically includes Shamash vs. Athena on the divine plane.
After all the blame rightly poured over the australian media, here is an awesome opinion piece from today :
On Religion and Homophobia
Like many of you, the Nerd is not able to do basic medline research. I have simplified the process. Go to http://www.maloneymedical.com. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on Quackery. Click on PHARYGULA POSTS FOR READERS UNABLE TO FOLLOW THE THREAD and read down to the section on placebo effects. For those, like Nerd, who are too lazy to even do this: “According to The Cochrane Collaborative Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2010 Jan 20;(1):CD003974 the “sugar pill” placebo effect doesn’t really exist anymore.” In other words, the concept that you are promoting doesn’t have any effect in modern medical studies. While it currently continues to be used in drug trials, I would hope we would move to more effective drug vs. drug trials.
Several of you took umbrage at my mentioning of either Taxol or aromatase inhibitors. My answer is show the data or accept mine. Do not prevent women who have this illness from getting proper care because you don’t like the source of the information. The following is the meta-analysis of aromatase inhibitors versus tamoxifen (I put all the cites on my site). I believe the cancer in question was estrogen negative (which is rarer), in which case the standard therapies are still used, but less effectively.
Ambulocetacean seems to be under the misapprehension that I am not a licensed naturopathic doctor. Please take a moment to have a look at my website. All the relevant information is there, and at this point I can confidently claim I have had more medical training than the majority of individuals on this endless thread. As I mention on my website, I maintain a license, malpractice insurance, and have a community of M.D.s and D.O.s within which we cross refer. I’ve never been a fan of chelation, and I don’t frighten people. I give the best data available when panicked parents are told to get things like the H1N1 vaccine WHEN NONE OF IT IS AVAILABLE. The whole idea of me being a quack was based on my editorial printed at a time when there was no vaccine and parents were literally quarantining themselves and their children in their homes out of fear. So no, I’m not the fear monger in this situation. I support parents in making informed decisions, giving them both the positive and the negative information. It’s called informed consent, and is required of all doctors.
Bride of Shrek is arguing for a study that she hasn’t provided any link to. In short, most studies I have seen show that we increase our patient base with the increasing intelligence and years of college of patients. But let’s all give Bride credit here, because the rest of you haven’t provided a shred of objective evidence for your terribly virulent opinions.
David, if Josh has not experienced anything from alternative medicine first hand, we are all to assume he is some sort of a benevolent hater? Sort of his gift to the world, hating things randomly? Someone should get him a Gandhi award. Oh, wait, that would be a KKK hood. Gay…hating randomly… no irony bells going off in the ol’ Joshosphere?
Menopause is not only classified medically, it has its own medical journal: Menopause. I’m sorry, let me send patients to your house who are hot flashing every six minutes. I’ll let you explain to them how they don’t have a disease, but make it quick because they will kill you.
The taxol comments are random, my point was that if you lot had your way, we wouldn’t look into the effects of herbs at all. The botanical world is where we will find the cures for things, and the first step to that is figuring out which herbs are most effective.
Ol’ Greg, have you never talked to a woman who is doubled up in agony for a week every month? Any body process that gets out of hand, whether it is the immune system or the hormonal systems, becomes a disease. I shouldn’t need to explain basic medical information to you all. Take the time to educate yourselves. It’s called dysmenorrhoea for those English and Aussies out there.
The citations on this post are another five pages, so I’m putting them under Quackery on my website under PHARYNGULA RESPONSE ABOUT MENOPAUSE rather than “force” you all to read some actual research.
I, personally, would welcome actual research. In fact, I’m going to wait right here until one of you produces some. Come on, it can’t be that hard. You’re all “scientific,” so of course you have a whole bunch of scientific articles supporting how terrible I am. Let’s see them. Not newspaper articles from the skeptic “watchtower” or anecdotal websites. Let’s see some actual data from peer reviewed medical journals. Oops? No articles? Gosh, maybe we’re a reactionary group pretending to be scientists. That’s ok, just own it and stop pretending. Let’s have all the skeptics come out of the closet and have a look at each other.
The anatomy of a skeptic:
18 year old English major.
Desperately lonely.
Starts blogging to make friends, falls into Pharygula.
Starts attacking older, attractive bearded men and fixates on them.
Gets parking ticket, spends time attacking local police force. Returns to beard obsession.
Creates “newspaper,” and delivers said paper to Quack’s neighborhood in the predawn hours. Frightens disabled retirees who think he is a burgular.
Cackles on blog about how clever he is. Doesn’t realize he has just become a stalker.
Receives praise and encouragement from many other bloggers who also do not have lives.
Myers pretends he hasn’t received any warning about his encouragement of this behavior. Denies responsibility for creating a stalker.
Is this the true endless thread picture?
Quack, I will do nothing you, the Duck of Placebo, has to say. You are nothing but a fraud, fake, quack, victimizer of your patients. Leech on their savings, without giving anything solid in return. You want me to think you are anything other than the above? Have Skeptical Inquirer investigate you and have their medical experts look at your claims. If they say you are real and are doing better than Placebo, I will investigate further. But not until then. You make yourself look like an idiot with you continued vain attempts at self justification. Do everybody here a favor and shut the fuck up.
Orac needs to see this.
Quack
.. you really dont want to add mysoginism to your endless list of failings. If you’re such a doctor then YOU should be explaining to them that they don’t have disease but a perfectly natural biological process.
.. oh that’s rich coming from you
And I’d link to the journal atricle I read but after three glasses of a very fine verdehlo I really don’t feel like playing your games anymore.
Why is he spending so much time here? It’s quite the desperate plea for attention.
Quack: every criticism can be summed up pretty easily – large-scale double-blind clinical studies showing significant effects or STFU.
As the witty Tim Minchin says, “Alternative medicine, by definition, has either not been proved to work, or has been proved not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proved to work? Medicine.”
Oh screw it, I’ll play
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC529271/?tool=pubmed
..enjoy Quack. You’ll note it’s largely abut the naturopaths profiles ( who incidentally are predominantly white, female and of menopausal age themselves) themselves but read carefully the section on patient profile. Female, white, mean age of 41. Sound familiar?
Sidelings on topic sorta.
I have a question for you guys.
When i was a student, i had a bi-sexual friend who was very active in the lesbigay community. Especially with helping young people deal with their sexuality and teach them it’s ok to have a different sexual orientation than just heterosexual.
Some years ago, this friend became really religious. I don’t know how he views his past now, but it can’t be very positive i guess.
(he was the one that helped me when i found out i liked both guys and girls).
I found him again after not having been in touch for years, on facebook.
It was clear that he was very very evangelical christian now.
Just this week he joined a group “pray for atheists”.
I couldn’t help but respond as an atheist and tell him to rather do something usefull or fun, like taking a walk, or doing charaty work for people in need.
I wasn’t the only one of his old friends that responded in such a manner.
His response was that at least now he knew who to pray some extra for.
How do you handle this?
And this is an endless thread and no derailment is theoretically possible I’d just like to say I just saw the most beautiful shooting star streak right across the Southern Cross (Crux). ..of course it may have been a UFO.
Quack: Is pregnancy a disease?
If menopause is a disease does that mean that puberty is as well?
Given the comment regarding menopausal women being bent on killing people I’d hazard a guess that Quack thinks that just being female is a disease.
Yeah, what’s your point? I know lots of them. Menstruation is still not a disease. If something is wrong they may have a disease like PCOS or endometriosis which case a jackass like you isn’t helping if they don’t know they have it.
Qwack the woomeister, this skeptic is a PhD scientist with 30+ years working after my terminal degree. I have been a skeptic for 20+ years. I’ve been through cold fusion and Jacques Benveniste with his assistant deliberately misreading the tests. So yes, I am a hard case, and require “gold standard” evidence from woomeisters like yourself. And I only found this blog a couple of years ago. Your predictions are as pathetic as the evidence for your profession.
Take your blatant sexism and shove it. This is the way you think about your clients? You just give them something to shut them up don’t you? It is a doctors job to explain the reality of a patients condition to them.
Probably only girl puberty.
Childhood sure as hell is :P
/jk
Quack
.. whooaa dude, you did NOT just refer to yourself as attractive did you? *snort*.
I’ll tell you what IS a disease, narcissistic personality disorder . Go treat that one with some herbs why don’t you.
No one has attacked me as far as I know
uh…Thread…hmmm…Buffy; somebody named River, don’t give a shit…fraternities, ditto…uh…that obsessive naturopath (wtf was that shit at the end about?)…yep…
*eyebrows UP*
…actually it’s widely available here and free to boot, so sorry, what’s your reason that I and my children shouldn’t have it?
Sven!
All these other trollops are propositioning me ( and indeed now the Quack is accusing me, well all of us, of being attracted to beard) and yet I am only yours. It’s nothing personal, I just kind of think I’d suit having the moniker DiMilo.
Nothing personal, you say? Kind of deflating, but I’ll take whatever I can get these days. btw, I have a beard and a mon
ocleiker.In other news:
Wrong. 22 year old married visual artist and musician. Degree in performing and visual arts.
Maybe some times, but the married thing helps.
I’m gen Y. I’ve been on the internet since I was pretty young.
I’m not fond of beards, but I’ve never attacked anyone.
Never. My driving record is pretty good!
Not possible. Didn’t have one.
What do I care? Tell it to the police. There’s a serial killer running around my city right now strangling women. Live with that for a while and see if you care about late night newspaper delivery.
She. No cackles. Not that clever, just not as much of an asshole as you are.
You’re really just talking about one person aren’t you? Why generalize? Maybe you should see a therapist. They’re pretty good with that kind of stuff.
Good for hypothetical him?
Well why don’t you just address the problem directly instead of posting weird shit like this here?
No, we’re no ones personal army :P
There’s no misapprehension here, Mr Maloney. You are not a doctor. That’s what the “ND” after your name stands for: “Not a doctor”.
Not only are you not a doctor, you are a dangerous quack. Don’t try to slither away from your irresponsible advocacy of unnecessary and dangerous chelation thereapy.
It still says on the “Autism” page of your website that “chelation may still get someone up to a certain level”. Get who up to what level? An autistic child up to the level of kidney failure and brain damage? You do realise that thimerasol doesn’t cause autism, don’t you? And that you can’t get mercury poisoning from vaccines and tooth fillings?
Don’t try to slither away from your hard-earned anti-vax crank credentials, either.
Why do you make a point of quoting Hannah Poling’s father as saying that “parents should question and possibly refuse vaccines”? Why do you pretend that Hannah Poling has austism when she actually has problems stemming from an extremely rare mitochondrial disorder? Why do you pretend (your weasel-word qualifiers notwithstanding) that as many as one in 500 children might have such a disorder when the real figure is 5.7 per 100,000? And that children with Hannah Poling’s particular kind of disorder are probably much rarer?
And don’t try to bluster your way out of having shown yourself to be frighteningly ignorant about breast cancer treatment. You know as well as I do that the posters who called you out on that have expertise in the disease and/or the drugs.
Your assertion that people like “us” don’t want to investigate potentially useful natural substances is pure bullshit. Of course we do. We just want them isolated, tested, given a proper delivery mechanism and dosage and for them to be prescribed by people who – unlike you – are medical doctors.
The H1N1 thing might have brought you to some people’s attention, but that’s not what makes you a quack. It’s that, plus all the other thoroughly disproven pseudoscientific bullshit you believe in and that you irresponsibly foist on vulnerable people – while taking their money – is what makes you a quack.
Oh. the age up there is not current those of you who may be confused. I thought quack was talking about when we started reading here.
That’s who I was then :/
Shit’s happened and I got older too.
Sven
.. oh no, I have no objections to beards, just HIS beard, because you know, it’s attached to HIM. Your beard is no doubt, dead sexy.
I know I’m bad person for making funny of a person’s looks but I’m honest and I’ll freely admit the photo with the faux stethoscope just cracks me up. I’m seriously considering using it as my screen saver at work.
*sigh*
another 400 or so comments to catch up on this morning… although I’m starting to worry, as I look through the comments, that some of you folks never sleep…
Are some of you undead? Because if you are undead… I’ll find out about that too…
[/Peterman]
Yes Celtic,
We are the undead, we are JESUSSSSSS!!!
Except ,maybe for Ol’Greg, she’s gorgeous so I think she might be our Mary Magdalene.
Very sad. It sounds like they got to him using fear of death. If it was a fairly solid relationship, I’d probably make light of it and explain why I think prayers do not work using Vishnu or some other contemporary god first that would help the friend take a step back and look more objectively at the whole act of praying to a god.
I’d probably also explain why I think the expression “I’ll pray for you” is actually not friendly at all because it really means “I think you are acting immorally and should die in a fire” while also implying that the utterer wants to control the life of the person being prayed for.
My response, given the circumstances you describe, would probably go along these lines:
“That’s really a shame… I really miss the person I knew that saw the world for how it is and was able to think for himself.
If that person would ever like to chat, you know where to find me. Oh, and please respect me enough not to pray for me… I find it insulting, demeaning and degrading. Save it for yourself or for those who wish it. I don’t walk up to you and slap you upside the head just because I think you need it, so please show me the same courtesy. No prayers, thanks.
Take care.”
Yes.
This has been Simple Answers to Simple Questions.
–o–
The only good thing about growing a beard out, is how good it feels to get rid of it.
Thanks aratina.
One of the other people responding to hem actually pointed it out to him that while he does ask respect for his religion, he doesn’t respect other’s lack of religion by praying for them.
I responded with this:
imagine someone has religion X.
Religion X has God Y.
The religion states that if someone doesn’t believe in God Y, they will burn and be tortured for eternity in Hell Z.
Since you believe in the christian god, and not God Y, this person is certain that you will burn in Hell Z for eternity.
So he will try to convince you that believing in God Y is the best thing you can do, or you will Burn in Hell Z.
As you already have your own faith, he’s very sad, but he hopes that you might change your mind and believe in God Y so you can be saved. In order to do that, he’ll slaughter a goat in your name every week. Because that’s what his HolyBook Q tells him his god Y finds good practice to _maybe_ save a “soul” of an unbeliever.
Imagine he tells you this..
Hey maurice.. I believe in God Y, and you don’t.. so I’m sad that you’ll burn in Hell Z for eternity.. so i’ll slaughter a goat for you every week.. and i hope that you’ll be saved.
How would you feel?
Please don’t include me in your prayers.
thanks.
I didn’t get a response to that (yet)
This single line got me off on a tangent of thinking about our poor, deluded physician wanna-be Quackalicious and all I could picture was…
this.
Arrrgh! Fucking vegemited blockquote fail…
Let’s try it again…
This single line got me off on a tangent of thinking about our poor, deluded physician wanna-be Quackalicious and all I could picture was…
this
*sigh*
link fail… not blockquote fail.
Fuck it. Back to bed I go…
Homeopathy is a disease.
Hey, Quack,
You know, a science teacher friend of mine was getting some grief from a docter friend of his about how little money he made.
“Yeah,” my friend said, “but when I make a mistake, I erase it.”
How about you Quack? Ever have a patient die on you? Ever wonder if they might have lived if they’d gotten competent medical advice? That ever wake you up at night? Ever think of it when you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror in your white coat and feel just a wee bit of bile rising in your throat? It’s fun playing doctor, huh?
Hey… I had a Markuze dropping in a comment this am, too.
I sometimes wonder what sets that whacko off. Mebbe he’s got some issues with his ‘nemesis’* coming out or somethin’?
I mean, I sometimes wonder. But not for long. My diagnosis generally goes: He’s nuts. Who the fuck knows?
Or cares, for that matter.
I have a standard ‘delete/ignore’ policy for him… Responding might be amusing, but (a) he’s crazy, (b) he’s really more spammer than troll, and I’m sure as hell not paying to host his drivel, and (c) explaining to others reading why I’m talking to a crazy spammer with a strange obsession with some dead astrologer, I dunno… I figure I could use that time for somethin’ more relevant…
Like mebbe clipping my toenails. Ain’t done that since yesterday.
In more interesting news, rumour has it we’re getting a bit of snow this afternoon. I am pleased, but it’s a lot too little a lot too late.
(*/Randi, in response, channeling Dr. Horrible: ‘Okay, dude: you are not my nemesis…’)
Hey, did the naturoquack just claim that we wouldn’t be looking at “herbs” for medicines if it wasn’t for the quacks? Isn’t that- incredibly stupid? Does he imagine that the use of taxol for cancer treatment is a result of herbalism?
“The right herbs”? Are we regressing to the Doctrine of Signatures here?
I’d care less had he not gone to the trouble of making a couple of death threats at me on my blog…
I gave him the “Internet Tough Guy” treatment over it, and left it there for all to see… but still…
Yes. This has been Simple Answers to Simple Questions, part 2.
Actually, that is very different. He didn’t do that at mine.
Y’ask me, I’d report that properly and immediately. I’m a former reporter; you could call this protocol. Death threats equals immediate police report.
Makuze emails me and /or comments on my blog on some sort of cycle.
It’s always the same nonsense.
delete.
I don’t say his name in the hopes he won’t find his way to my little blog which I barely post in anyway and which is just basically a place for me to prattle about things, post pics, and provide links to my music and whatnot as I update things.
Ooooooh! You guys! Share a moment with me. The person that had apparently flaked out on me contacted me again and apologized. It seems as of next week we will be back in business with a new sequencer and the drum tracks we recorded will finally be worked on!
Ok I’m happy about that. I really want this to happen :/
Yes, but it can be cured by diluting water with H2O in a 6C dilution.
Alternately, you can cure it by diluting a homeopathic practitioner in a 10C dilution.
You’re welcome.
They’re already deluded.
[/stupidpun]
You know what is ironic? Reader comments on the headline news story at Huffington Post about Google pulling out of China because of censorship being, you guessed it, fucking censored.
Georgia high school allows student to take his boyfriend to prom.
At first they said no, then last week they changed their mind. I wonder why. (no I don’t)
I’ve never had a comment from you-know-who on my blog. Then again, I haven’t blogged at all since October, and my blog was never primarily about religion or atheism anyway.
I effectively gave up blogging – partly due to too much work, and partly because I’m not sure there’s much point, since I have a tendency to change my mind constantly about everything. I look back at blog posts I wrote a year ago and now think some of them were completely wrong. And it’s not as if I have any special knowledge or expertise that I can share with people.
Carlie (#684)
I don’t think he’s quite right in the head, to be honest. Did you read the thread over at Neurologica David Marjanović linked a while back where Steven Novella and his commenters absolutely slaughtered the dim little ducky? Quack didn’t even notice, just kept quack quack quacking along, though Novella would repeatedly asked him to respond to particular criticisms. I don’t think it’s possible for anyone to be more clear and to the point than Novella was, so if he couldn’t get through to the quack, then I doubt anyone can. The quack’s got super strong barriers of unreason combined with an impenetrable faith in his own righteousness.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Speaking of ducks and failure to penetrate, I got to watch two mallards getting it on yesterday. The male wasn’t successful, though he sure took his time getting into position. He was sitting on top of the female, holding on to her by biting the back of her head and stomping on her wings. Just when he was about to insert himself, she threw him off and chased after him, trying to bite him on the penis.
I think it would be interesting to record how and why your mind changed actually.
I’d be interested in reading it at least.
Ah, spring…
Apologies if this has already been referenced in the current discussion (tl;dr, though I did skim as best I could):
Ducks are cool.
Well, ~500 comments have now accumulated since I said I’d chime in later, and probably my moment has passed… but somehow I’m not going to let that stop me.
First, I agree with Josh, OSG, that the Tiger Woods affair is a spectacularly inapt analogy. Even if you can tease out some narrowly defined aspect of both cases that’s comparable, the broader context is so thoroughly not comparable that the analogy fails. The whole point of analogy is to clarify; if your analogy requires multiple explanations — even to an undeniably smart audience — before it makes sense, then it is by definition a bad analogy. Regardless of the intended point, the risk inherent in this comparison of equating infidelity with gayness, and an accidental outing with a self-determined coming out, is too great.
OTOH, I disagree (mildly) with Josh’s (and others’) reaction to the word dispassionate: I never took ambulocetacean¹ to be denying or disrespecting the emotional resonance of the issue, nor to be asserting somehow that the straight white male perspective somehow defines a “rational” political norm; rather, I saw him as simply saying that, because he didn’t have a direct personal stake in this particular question, he might be able to offer an external, impartial perspective. Whether such a perspective is useful or not is, of course, open to debate… but offering it doesn’t strike me as offensive, nor as any negation of the validity of other perspectives.
Personally, I’m conflicted about the whole issue of what responsibility members of oppressed minorities (whether we’re talking about sexual preference or atheism or some marginalized political affiliation or any other hideable identity that’s subject to an ism) have to “come out” to the world that persecutes them. I understand the Milk argument — that the best way to end discrimination is to be seen by the larger society as both present and normal — and I accept that as a practical matter, the more who come out, the better it gets (and sooner) for all such minorities. OTOH, speaking as I do from the position of (unearned, unwanted) privilege as a straight white male, it’s hard for me to lay the burden of fixing social problems on the very people who suffer from them. At the end of it, I find I can’t criticize either side of the argument. In regards to making aspects of their identity public, people should do whatever is best for themselves… or at least, I don’t feel I have any standing to urge them otherwise.
Now, I’ve also been fascinated by the colloquy2 between Caine, Josh, Janine, BoSOM, et al. regarding the general perceptions of bisexuality. Exempli gratia:
I’m fascinated by the notion that some gay folk think of bisexuals as actually being gay, but not having the courage to come all the way out… because I have some second-hand experience with exactly the opposite: In my daughter’s HS (for timeframe, note that she was Class of ’08), at least within her circle of friends, it was actively cool to be gay, and she told me that several kids represented themselves as bisexual despite lack of any evidence of same-sex interest (i.e., kids who either had opposite-sex partners or who were not yet sexually active, to the best of anyone’s awareness), and the presumption was that some of these kids were just trying to glom onto the coolness of teh gayz without actually giving up their fundamentally hetero identity.
Of course, neither my daughter nor I will ever know what was in those kids’ heart of hearts, but I thought it was interesting that we’ve moved from a place where it was plausible to imagine (whether correctly or not in any given case) that people were trying to hide their actual gayness to one where it’s plausible to imagine people proclaiming more gayness than they actually have. I’d be a fool to think my daughter’s friends — mostly honors students, creative writers, and theater geeks in a solidly middle-class suburban school — as representative of a generation… but I hold out hope that there’s a positive trend toward acceptance underway.
And I suspect that greater acceptance of gays is also the key to greater acceptance of bisexuals: Even in the post-Kinsey world, the “scale” of human sexuality has been, in the traditional heteronormative view, a single point (Kinsey 0) that’s “normal,” with the rest of the scale merely representing varying degrees of abnormality.
IfOnce we reach the point where the other end of the scale becomes broadly accepted as normal, the normality of all the points in between is strongly implied.On the issue of how monogamy confuses the external perception of bisexuality, I gather this is one that confounds even the most openminded: In the course of listening to Susie Bright’s podcast (for several years now; I’d link to it, but it’s a paid-subscription podcast from audible) and reading various sex-positive sources, I’ve heard even people of good will sometimes wrestle with this. To me, the comment that “you’re not bi; you’re poly” (see above) is silly: It seems obvious to me that the gay-straight (aka Kinsey scale) and monogamous-nonmonogamous3 axes are orthogonal. It seems obvious to me that you can be anywhere on the Kinsey scale and anywhere on the monogamy scale; they’re independent variables. (As an aside, I’m not sure the monogamy scale is so much a continuum as it is a set of quantum jumps: Can you be just a tiny bit nonmonogamous?4)
That said, I can see why it’s hard to see someone who’s truly monogamous in the strict traditional sense (i.e., the intent is that your current sexual relationship will be not only exclusive but also permanent) as bisexual from the outside: The bisexuality inheres in preferences that, in this case, are never visibly acted upon. You’re bisexual in fact, but either straight or gay in practice, as far as anyone can see.
That’s no excuse, of course: Absent some good reason to think they’re lying, we should always accept everyone’s testimony about their indwelling selves on face value. But it’s been useful for me to try to work through why people who don’t seem otherwise given to invidious prejudice have taken up the cudgels on this issue. For whatever my socially irrelevant opinion is worth! ;^)
¹ As somebody who arguably resembles a walking whale, and whose name is frequently mistaken for that of another cetacean, I have to say this is the Best.Nick.Evarrrrr! ;^)
2 A perfectly cromulent word that’s recently been given new life by the attention we’ve all (I hope) been paying to the #hcr debate on the House floor.
3 I shifted away from the term poly because I understand there are many forms of nonmonogamy that are not necessarily all consonant with polyamory. (E.g., I’ve heard poly people draw a distinction between what they do and swinging.)
4 I’m assuming here that nonmonogamy is distinct from cheating… so don’t bother telling me about one-night stands on business trips.
And on that note, I dispatch you all to learn about polyamorous whales.