Is there some new requirement in the Republican party that potential candidates for the presidency must be against basic science? Bobby Jindal gave a rebuttal to one of Obama’s recent speeches, and what does he do? Criticizes the investment of “$140 million for something called ‘volcano monitoring.’ Instead of monitoring volcanoes, what Congress should be monitoring is the eruption of spending in Washington, D.C.” Heck, this isn’t even any of that abstract, difficult-to-understand stuff — it’s work that directly helps people.
“I was kind of taken aback by the way volcanic monitoring was portrayed in the speech,” Brad Singer, a professor of geology at the University of Wisconsin, said. “Every once in awhile there’s some odd science research going on that sounds so out there that it’s not useful and even I can laugh at some of those. But volcano monitoring is a serious business. I would say there are hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. who live in the sphere of hazard associated with many individual volcanoes.”
It’s work to help predict and prevent disasters. You would think the governor of Louisiana would understand why this is important, even if his state doesn’t have volcanoes, but one thing we’ve learned over the last few years is that Republican presidential candidates don’t have much of a connection with reality or empathy.
Somehow, I’m not surprised that Jindal would say this. All of the diehard Republicans will oppose anything important Democrats say, regardless. Hell, if Obama wanted to spend 10 dollars on hurricane monitoring, Jindal would oppose it tooth and nail to the bloody end.
Jindal probably just thinks it’s money to pay grade-school science fair judges.
You just fail to see the clear link between volcano monitoring and gay marriage. Once you start one, the other’s sure to follow. Obviously.
The residents around Mt. St. Helens would like to have a word with Gov. Jindal.
But if god wants to kill people with his volcanoes, studying them for any reason, let alone to prevent well-deserved death, is blasphemy.
Just another controversy that should be taught in the public schools.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Louisiana doesn’t have any notable or even potential volcanic activity, does it? That’s how these people think: if I can’t see it from my window, it’s not important. Unless it’s Russia or God of course.
Louisiana geologists, vote with your feet.
Wouldn’t it be great if Bobby was on vacation at Yellowstone when the big one blows? Last thoughts: hey, someone should have been watching this and told me about it.
Perhaps is in collusion with Xenu.
It’s like McCain and Palin and the bear DNA research/paternity issue joke. They are too stupid to understand what it’s about, and they’re hoping everyone else is too.
But if scientists study geological activity too deeply, they might come to the conclusion that the Earth is over 6,000 years old.
He just sounds like a “he who shall not be mentioned”. After all, not too many volcanos in Louisiana, so nada. But those poor folks in the Pacific “Ring of Fire” can use some help. Think of Patricia’s hens!
Not to mention the folks in Tacoma and Seattle, Washington living on top of lahars (volcanic mudflows) from Mt. Rainer.
The funniest and best parts of Jindal’s speech were that, from the moment he made a creepy entry by shambling out of the darkness and into view, he looked like a grinning vampire, and then spoke as heart-warmingly as Mr. Burns of the Simpsons.
From CNN:
“Some conservative needs to start a campaign to fire whoever wrote this cheesy response and coached him to talk like this,” wrote conservative columnist Amanda Carpenter on the popular social networking Web site Twitter. “I can’t watch.”
You’ve obviously never spent a 4 day sleepless binge in New Orleans around Halloween.
Hmmmm…just read a CNN article that showed a rather lukewarm reception to Jindal’s “coming out” appearance (his rebuttal to Obama’s speech to Congress yesterday).
And the panning was from BOTH sides of aisle.
This guy is supposed to be the fresh, new face of the conservatives and “up and coming” star of the Republican party. I have heard conservatives just rave about this guy, and many are getting premature “chubbies” about the prospect of a Jindal/Palin ticket in 2012.
God f****** help us.
Pfffft. Wasting all that money on “rever management” and on dikes and levees. That’s a real waste. What are we, the Netherlands?
The BEST part was from the MSNBC broadcast, where Chris Matthews is heard to mutter “Oh, god.” IT happens just after Jindal appears from behind the post, and is caught on the mic and broadcast.
I watched every minute of this execrable speech and found it cringeworthy. Jindal talked as if he were a high school civics student addressing tooth-challenged knuckle-draggers. He even repeated the lie that the bailout was going to build a high-speed rail line from Disneyland to Las Vegas! Is this the best that the Republican party has to offer?
Volcano Monitoring: almost as useless as building levees.
Meanwhile, Jobby Bindal is saying:
Self-reflection simply isn’t a skill these people ever learned, is it?
Bobby Jindal was pounded by almost every pundit on network TV. If they were kind, they called his speech ‘not his best’. Most analyses viciously cut his speech up as boring, ‘reading from a bad script’, juvenile, etc.
CNN:
I don’t think Faux News knew there was a presidential speech or a Jindal response.
You’ve gotta love how he says “something called ‘volcano monitoring'”, as if the very concept is both impenetrable and ludicrous. Does he really think his audience is that ignorant, that terrified of basic scientific concepts? “Volcano monitoring? What kind of fancy-pants sissy-boy college talk is that? Why can’t them science jerks call it fire-mountain lookin’-at like everone else?!”
Ooohh, nice: binge -> mushy peas -> exorcist -> Jindal
sry for being cpt. obvious
I called him the retarded son of Darth Vader suffering tuberculosis yesterday,but i like the Mr Burns reference @ 12.
This is just farsical,And this is the upcoming star of the Republicans?
i gotta agree with piyush jindal 100%. there’s no percentage in monitoring volcanoes in louisiana. instead, why don’t we get the feds to stop monitoring hurricanes, hurricane preparedness, and levee status in louisiana?
it’s the same kind of anti-science bullshit that mcsame was spouting when he went off against “an overhead projector” for the adler planetarium in chicago, not knowing what the fuck he was talking about!
One commentor on the radio this morning said Jindal came out to make his speech in a very stiff manner. He described it as “he looked like dracula in a poor dinner theater production.” Unfortunately, he opened his mouth.
I am sure his speech writer just want to work in the “eruption of spending” line as I am sure Jindal doesn’t write his own speeches. (Does any politician anymore?) It seems the only thing Republicans want anymore is to outlaw gay marriage and huge tax cuts.
He wants to prevent the research so those damn Hobbits don’t find the volcano and throw his ring in. Then he’s powerless!
…Dammit I’m such a dork.
“Is this the best that the Republican party has to offer?”
Yes.
Another simple answer to a simple question (h/t Atrios).
I laughed, guess that makes me a dork too.
What’s fk’n scary about this dude is that he graduated from Brown University with a degree in Biology! He was even accepted to Harvard Med, but turned it down to go into politics.
This idiot is a biology major who wants to teach ID in our kids’ science classes (witness his recent approval of the so-called “academic freedom act” of last year).
He even claimed to have been present at an exorcism.
Jesus H. Krist – between him and Palin (with her African witch doctor) I’d be pretty darn sure there wouldn’t be any goblins or demons in the White House in 2012.
You betcha…
Neh…it’s all about the soundbyte.
The Republicans are about style over substance nowadays…say something clever(ish) sounding and say it with confidence and nobody cares about how stupid the comment actually was.
Jindal is nothing but Sarah Palin with a penis.
Bobby Jindal = Sarah Palin in a suit.
I agree with Glen Davidson. Jindal probably just doesn’t want to interfere with the all-merciful hand of “God”. What a tool.
He’d probably protest locust research too. You never know, “God” may decide to unleash another plague.
“What’s fk’n scary about this dude is that he graduated from Brown University with a degree in Biology!”
I graduated w/ a biomed degree with a guy who didn’t believe in evolution. Few things make me sadder than the knowledge that the two of us have the same degree…..
The chickens we had during the time St. Helen’s blew quit laying eggs for six days. Jindal is an idiot. Perhaps he’s never heard of ash.
I studied Geology/Geophysics at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Will not provide my full resume here. But, the threat of volcanic eruptions cannot be under estimated. I will simply use Pinatubo and Mt St Helens as examples. Other threats (consider possibly Immanent) Yellowstone and Mt Rainier, Both could result in many deaths and trillions in dammage should they erupt. When I was at the Hawaii Center for Volcanology monitoring volcanic activity was technologically cheap – a few sensors to measure land expansion and seismometers. You need grad students to monitor them – educated people 3 shifts.
hmmm… given that from my bedroom window i can clearly see three volcanos where there is activity recorded daily i would like for the $140M to remain invested in monitoring the two bad boys and one very naughty girl (she is closest to me).
i think jindal needs a geography lesson with a dose of history heaped on top. where was he in 1980 when the naughty girl of the pacific northwest lost her top?
hasn’t he been conversing with that republican governor in alaska who has an active volcano currently spewing ash, mt. redoubt? or what about the republican governor of hawaii with the perpetually erupting kilauea?
his words show someone who is not too bright.
El Cid @3:
“You just fail to see the clear link between volcano monitoring and gay marriage. Once you start one, the other’s sure to follow. Obviously.”
I couldn’t agree more. Volcano eruptions are a poorly concealed metaphor for, ahem, eruptions of a different kind. Liberace clearly monitored volcanoes as a young man. He never recovered.
How many millions of dollars a year do we spend on hurricane tracking and research that directly goes to protecting his freakin’ state? How much did it cost us to design and deploy the weather satellites that let his constituents know days in advance of impending disaster? Louisiana residents elected themselves one first class tool.
How do the folks at the Discovery Institute feel about Gov. Jindal hoping they’ll die in a hail of volcanic debris?
There’s millions of people in the Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia area, right near Rainier, more millions in the Portland area near Mt. Hood. Jindal wants them all to die. The guy the GOP put forth as their spokesperson wants them all to die. Remind them of that in 2010 and 2012. Folks near there, hound the GOP candidates for those elections about this at every rally and every gathering, and insist they denounce their national leadership.
If they do, or if they don’t, the result is good for sane people.
@#6 Felix: That’s how these people think: if I can’t see it from my window, it’s not important. Unless it’s Russia or God of course.
How could you forget the Ayrab Mooselimb Terraists®? We spend more money recruiting, er, fighting terraists than on all scientific endeavors combined.
Jindal’s delivery was vaguely unsettling throughout and I had the nagging suspicion that he reminded me of someone. The thought nagged me until an image and a name suddenly popped up.
Fred Rogers.
An evil Fred Rogers.
I’m surely not the only one that felt as though he took pains to speak in simple declarative statements in a slow, measured voice. His tone reminded me of Mr. Rogers as well as grade school teachers. I almost felt little again! Until I observed that I’m older than he.
An evil Mr. Rogers . . . shiver . . .
Jindal is a Christian.
It would be unChristian to allow people to avoid god killing them by lava, pyroclastic flow or other godly amusement.
mell @ 24,
Umm, because the feds already kinda dun’n did dat.
If you get a chance read “Drowning New Orleans”: Scientific American October 2001.
Ya don’t figure at least a few people in da govmint mighta had an inklin now do ya?
Oh, never mind I’d forgotten that those were the same people who were deliberately wageing the war on science.
You wouldn’t expect them to listen to any evil scientists who might want to do something to save the poor and the underpriviledged people in harms way. That would be a monumental waste of federal resources that could be much better spent on finding
oilweapons of mass destruction in Iraq.I want to send Jindal a heart-shaped box of chocolates for this speech. It’s really perfect.
“Volcano monitoring” just begs to be made into a euphemism.
Oh look. The Mayor of Vancouver, WA is pissed at Jindal
I think we can safely say (not that we didn’t know this already) that Jindal gets a big fat f- for that little self indulgent rebuttal he gave last night.
actually, fernando, the feds do do that. the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration (noaa) takes care of hurricane tracking, the department of fatherland security is supposed to take care of hurricane preparedness (ha!), and the army corps of engineers is in charge of the levees.
just because the bush adminstration fucked up everything they touched is no reason to say that it wasn’t their responsibility.
republicans run for office saying government is the problem, and then when they get elected they prove it.
btw, another really good take on katrina is jed horne’ book, breach of faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_volcano
Louisiana doesn’t need a volcano to get screwed over by one. Yellowstone is big enough to screw over most of North America when it next goes off.
Not quite a volcano, but there is also the Madrid fault where the east and west NA plates merged. He’s probably ignorant of that too.
Yeah, let’s just shut down NOAA and the NHC too, Jindal. Obviously tracking hurricanes isn’t important, wither…
Jindal should visit Puyallup, WA (built on not-so-ancient volcanic mudflows from Mt. Rainier). A few glances at the many “Volcano Evacuation Route” signs or maybe hearing a test of the warning sirens might impress upon him the seriousness of the issue.
Let’s call Mt Jindal’s bluff and pull all funds for hurricane monitoring – and forecasting. Suits me fine. Let those in harms way down there fend for themselves. And no hurricane relief aid, diaster aid, etc. etc.
This is the epitomy of the Republican philosophy. Let’s not pull together on important work that makes sense do do togther.
What an ass he is. Now we can really lay out the Republican agenda with their rising star.
BTW – ya know. It was more interesting in the past when I had idological differences ith the Republicans, but they had some intellectual horse power on their team.
Now “that one” party is intellectually bankrupt.
I watched Obama’s speech on Al Jazeera TV (online). I was curious as to what reactions outside the US were going to be. After Obama got done they switched to Jindal for about 30 seconds and went back to the commentary. I guess that is all the time it took for them to figure out it would be useless. As they were wrapping the segment up they briefly mentioned Jindal’s response. One commentator asked, in reference to Jindal, “What was what?” Reply, “That, that was identity politics.” Laughed my ass off at that.
Republican solution to the volcano: throw a couple of virgins into the crater and move on.
@ #41
I was thinking the same thing last night when I posted about the speech on my blog:
#14: Most of the Democrats have chubbies about a Jindal/Palin ticket; also known as ” four more years of Obama”
In the I wish I had thought of this, Paul Krugman at the New York Times,
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/
in part said today:
“So what did Bobby Jindal choose to ridicule in this response to Obama last night? Volcano monitoring, of course.
The intellectual incoherence is stunning. Basically, the political philosophy of the GOP right now seems to consist of snickering at stuff that they think sounds funny. The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead.”
Angela @ 55:
Are you kidding? A Jindal/Palin ticket would guarantee the Democrats 400 more years.
Don’t forget: Dumbya’s record of worst president will stand for 1000 years.
Jindal didn’t just witness an exorcism, he PERFORMED one.
I suppose he thinks that volcanoes can be dealt with in the same way.
At least with him and Palin we’ll be safe from demons and witches.
@ #14 and #55:
That would be something: anti-volcano-monitoring Bobby and sitting-on-one Sarah on the same ticket.
ROTFLMAA.
I like Rachael Maddow, in general, but also her comment: “Aww….I’m speechless. I’m paid to talk about this stuff, and I am without words” This is more or less the same comment Robot on the old series “Lost in Space” would repeat over and over again: “That does not compute!”
larry:
while wearing their promise rings and singing about their joys of virginity knowing they will be be united with the volcano god, or maybe a Jonas Brother or two who accompanies them. Or, maybe, there will be a lot more screwing going on.
I think the term is “stupify”, able to suck the intelligence out of all that comes across it.
My son pointed me to a site called f___my life. here:
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f20/f-my-life-78334/
Two entries seem particularily Jindalisk:
Today, I went to get a condom because my boyfriend and I were going to have sex for the first time. When I opened the drawer, I saw that every single condom had a Jesus pin stabbed through it, and a note on top of the box: “love mom.” FML
Today, my boss called me into his office to show me the web site of a potential business partner. When he began to type ‘virginia’ into google, it auto-completed his search with his recent search for ‘virgin boy assholes’. I have to go on business trip with him tomorrow. I’m a young guy. FML
I saw Jindal last year and he was articualte and impressive going over preperations for last season’s hurricane.
I watched this speech with an incredible sense of John Kerryism (when he ran against Dubya…)
I thought, “Oh lordy, that’s the best we got in this country? That’s the counter-argument for Obamamania? A Slumdog Millionaire puppet?”
We need someone to stand up and point out that the government failed us and private corporations and banks failed us. We need fingers pointed and heads rolling down aisles. We need FRAUD to be prosecuted at all levels, theiving financial companies sunlighted, and a national dialogue about the Federal Reserve and monetary policy.
America is broke. Look at us grovel. We are reduced to sending Hillary to China to perform a Lewinski to borrow more Billions. Very few politicians are willing to acknowledge this mathematical certainty to the American people, and very few democrats are willing to stand up and admit this themselves.
Broke. Broke broke. We can’t even pay back the money we already owe. Broke broke broke. We’re now borrowing to pay interests on money we’ve already borrowed.
The American consumer should be buried– we’ve been dead for over a year now.
The bright side? Obama is going to cure cancer for us, thanks be to Petie…
Republicans are locked into the past…It is no longer Leave it to Beaver-Andy Griffith World and they have to let go. It is not going to come back no matter how much they splutter, fume, and whatever else it is they do. Without a 21st century forward looking vision they are relegated to the ash heap of history…trying to drag everyone down with them. These pathetic losers are clutching at straws…and I hope the public is waking up…but I still know people, regular hard working Americans, who sincerly believe Sarah Palin would be a great leader and that Obama is a shifty Muslim. I saw an article the other day describing the best countries for Americans to move to. Apparently American emmigration is on an up-tick.
Stewart just skewered him on The Daily Show…
…with a Mr. Rogers clip!
OMG, Stewart almost killed himself with a pancake on a stick. O.o
Baconnaise Lite!
Reminds me of the Sarah Palin “fruit fly research” fiasco. Sneering at autism research when you have an autistic kid is what we call in Europe an “epic own goal”.
Every clear morning almost three million Americans in the Puget Sound area can see large active volcanos which need monitoring. We have alarms on the slopes of Mt. Ranier to warn of volcanic mud flows which have wiped out the area currently known as Tacoma in the recent geological past.
41 and 54 win with Mr. Rogers.
Colbert: “Ridiculous, we all know monitoring volcanoes ruins the fun. Republicans of course can calm the volcanoes with virgin sacrifices, which is why they support abstinence sex education.”
53 and 64 win in the Colbert round with “virgin sacrifices to calm raging volcanoes” bonus points for linking to Republicans.
As Stephen Colbert just said: “Monitoring volcanoes? That would ruin the surprise!”
And yet, Louisiana elected him Governor.
This seems to be a (new?) Republican tactic. Take away the monitoring and then when disaster strikes and it takes weeks for any help to arrive they can say “Who could have seen this coming?”
Next they’ll be dismantling NOAA.
Pfff, volcanoes are just levees for lava. Why waste money studying them?
Seriously though, when I was a child I hated it when adults spoke to me in a condescending tone. So you could imagine as an adult how I felt about Jindal’s speech. At least when Bush was speaking to us as children it probably was because that’s how the material was explained to him.
From my (humble) observations The only things that Republicans support are gawd and the majic (Friedman/Rand)market. It’s interesting that the GOP is left with mostly extreme fundamentalists in both the economic and religious arenas. Jindal, while quite adept at politics in what is now a backwater of American political and social discourse found that when trying to address a national audience he had laid the big fat proverbial egg with a rebuttal that was so discordant as to repulse anyone with the slightest socio-political acumen. Brilliant.
This $140 million had no business in this bill. I as a geologist realize the necessity of volcano monitoring but this was not the place for this expense. It will create no new jobs or at best only very temporary ones and it will not stimulate the economy. Too bad so many felt obligated to insult and deride “others” (I saw the republicans,as always bush, Jindal, Palin and I think Darth Vader run over!)instead of offering some intelligent thought on the subject. Here’s one for you… if a catastrophic eruption occurred at one of the several alternatives offered already… how much could we really do about it? Warn people? Plenty of warning for Katrina and many decided to ‘ride it out’. Tell people to evacuate? People CAME in throngs to Mount St. Helens. If you are a geologist or even a volcano buff, just think about the size and power of what we are talking about! What else can you do but get out of the way?
Oh I am sure some feel that lives could be saved but the current level of technology we have would certainly warn us of any potential eruption saving those same lives. If its people you need to monitor get some grad students as one person who had been to the Hawaii Observatory suggested. If it is equipment or research you want write a grant and get it approved. Have the guts to ask and defend what you want and not sneak it by on the coat tails of a bill supposed to help the economy.
Mark, you may or may not be correct the monitoring does not belong in the stimulus package. That it is in the package is not what has upset rational people.
What has upset people is the thugs are not even trying to make that point, but instead trashing the whole idea. Re-read what the dog-fearing arsehole from the fecking swamp blathered; it was not “volcano monitoring is an important, continuous, and life-saving process which must be funded each and every year and thus does not belong in a one-off stimulus package”, but a clear implication volcano (and by implication, also hurricane and other natural disaster) monitoring should not be funded at all.
From the Fox News story about the Gov. remarks –
” Volcano monitoring likely saved many lives — and significant money — in the case of the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines (where the United States had military bases at the time), according to the USGS.
The cataclysmic eruption lasted more than 10 hours and sent a cloud of ash as high as 22 miles into the air that grew to more than 300 miles across.
The USGS spent less than $1.5 million monitoring the volcano and was able to warn of the impending eruption, which allowed authorities to evacuate residents, as well as aircraft and other equipment from U.S. bases there.
The USGS estimates that the efforts saved thousands of lives and prevented property losses of at least $250 million (considered a conservative figure). “
#75 Geologist perhaps, Emegergency Management, obviously not.
Having advance warning allows the the government, various agencies and organizations and even big businesses prepare to mitigate the disaster. One of the most basic means of which is having supplies and people on hand for immediate recovery afterwards.
Wal-mart and Lowes among other big businesses closely monitor disaster alerts so they can redirect shipments so that the local stores and warehouses are stocked with emergency supplies like extra chainsaws and water while simultaneously rerouting shipments around the projected disaster area.
Also there is a big difference between hurricanes and volcanoes. Hurricanes like Tornadoes have a fairly high false alarm rate even with modern meteorological services. A volcano on the other hand, Mt Saint Helens kinda disabused people of the idea of ‘riding one out’. Washington State as already pointed out has serious volcano and laharl preparedness levels due to the danger of Mt Ranier.
Seriously though, just watch Jindal on youtube or something. He even made Republicans feel a little slimy with this bit.
Why….yes. Why do you ask?
Republican’s aren’t against volcano monitoring itself. They just don’t like the idea of the government spending $140 million to do it.
The better (Republican) solution is for everyone to be given a tax cut, then each taxpayer can decide how best to spend that tax cut on volcano monitoring. After all, who knows best how to use their own money than taxpayers?
Volcano monitoring via tax cuts is a better method of stimulating the economy, even if a few taxpayers might prefer to do their own volcano monitoring and save their tax cut money instead of spending it. I am sure that the vast majority of taxpayers would choose to spend at least a portion of their tax cut on volcano monitoring.
Small business owners could use their tax cuts to expand their businesses to do volcano monitoring. Large businesses could use their tax cuts to re-hire the thousands of volcano monitors they laid off. Banks would start lending money for volcano monitoring systems again.
Clearly, the Democrat’s choice to throw taxpayer money into the volcano, so to speak, is wrong headed, and tax cuts will lead to much better volcano monitoring and stimulus of the economy.
Jindal’s comments were directed specifically at those people across our nation that hate anything Democratic. He wants to gain their support for a presidential run. Expect him to continue blasting away with his political rhetoric regardless of truth, accuracy or factual basis. He wants to leave a specific impression in the minds of Americans. Many like myself will reject him, but there are plenty of our fellow citizens that will delight in his comments.
I was hoping to read some of his scientific work but failed to find anything. Can anyone provide information about #75, Mark Paul Bare as a geologist? I Googled his name and could find no papers written by him or other data that would indicate his credentials as a geologist.
82 – Well, Randy Marsh is a geologist too…
I’ve had two courses of geology myself, so if I write something it’ll be about my efforts to stop soil erosion in the gully on the border of my property. It involves pine straw and trees limbs, highly technical stuff.
$140 million for something called ‘volcano monitoring.
That’s a pretty hefty price tag for monitoring volcanoes. I know they can do better than that. Now I know liberals want to take advantage of China’s donation for buying the stimulus package (because it’s beyond our means to afford such an expense) which still nobody knows whats all contained in it.
Jindal’s comments were directed specifically at those people across our nation that hate anything Democratic.
Not really, the housing crisis (sub prime loans) was about spreading the wealth around as a lot of people were able to qualify for loans which were not realistically able to do so (a Dem concept) and it didn’t work.
China holds about 40 percent of the US debt, and made 13 percent last year on the money they loaned to us. Foreign debt is not good, and you don’t loan more money to pay off a debt or because you just assume more debt. The question is, how much improvement will be in the economy that spends billions on it’s roads and a host of other things?
Palin got the shaft even though she was right about that agricultural pest pork barrel spending, but there is no rescuing Jindal from this one. Monitoring volcanoes is basic research that saves lives and contributes to better understanding of both the earth and the climate.
Oh, come on, the real evil Fred Rogers is Mayor Wilkins from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This Jindal moron doesn’t even come close.
Holy Samnite but this guy is flaming stupid.
Republicans actually like this fellow and want him to be their point man in the rush against Obama and his policies?
WTF ?
Are they just that dumbstruck by the loss to Obama that they’ve become apathetic about it all ?
Meanwhile, they’re using the threat of a filibuster in the senate to force a 60-vote “super majority” on every issue.
Ahh John McCain, when was it you were complaining so bitterly about Congressional Gridlock, and the Democrats not negotiating in good faith but opposing every bill you and your GOP allies wanted ?
DLC,
“Ahh John McCain, when was it you were complaining so bitterly about Congressional Gridlock”
Wasn’t that just two weeks ago, when the “stimulous” package was being rammed through? McCain is pretty consistent for a moderate.
It seems the irrational beliefs about evolution have widened in the minds of political conservatives to a hostility to science in general, and this is reflected in Republican attitudes.
Interestingly, during the cold war science was considered vital to keeping “ahead” (as they put it) to the Soviets. Seems it doesn’t matter now!
The Republicans must be doing considerable damage to their long term credibility by taking this line.
Once you’ve taken into account racists, evangelicals that don’t like catholics and non-social conservatives (libertarians, plutocrats and whatever) does Jindal actually have a hope of winning the presidential nomination from the GOP? Or are they just parading him about now to show how diverse they can be?
I will withhold judgment until I see how Jindal’s giant demon snake transformation goes.
Oh, and by “giant demon snake transformation” I of course mean his 2012 presidential campaign.
the threat of volcanic eruptions cannot be under estimated. Dennis@35
I think you mean “should not be under estimated”. What you say implies that there is no threat – the only way it could be impossible to underestimate that threat.
/pedant
On a related topic, if he ever drops out of politics to begin a boxing or MMA career, he’s already got a killer nickname…
“And now, fighting out of the red corner, Bobby! “The Exorcist!” Jiiiiiindaaaaaaaaal!
the housing crisis (sub prime loans) was about spreading the wealth around as a lot of people were able to qualify for loans which were not realistically able to do so Michael@84
The usual right-wing blame-the-poor lies. Most of the sub-prime loans were not to poor people at all, but to rich ones buying bigger houses, or second/third/etc. properties, often as investments, reckoning that if they got into problems, they could always sell. Federally insured financial institutions made less than 50% of sub-prime loans. The rest were provided by independent mortgage companies who borrowed from investors, lent the money to sub-prime borrowers, then sold on the mortgages, often to big banks, to be packaged up as mortgage-backed securities and sold on again (see for examplehttp://gbr.pepperdine.edu/073/housing.html ). That, possible because of the deregulation of financial institutions in the USA and around the world, allowed the towering Ponzi scheme of CDOs and CDSs to build. It is because of these opaque “financial instruments” that the downturn in US house prices – inevitable eventually – has triggered what may well be the greatest financial crisis in history.
As far as “spreading the wealth” is concerned – bilge. Wealth has been enormously concentrated within the USA and other rich countries over the past three decades – deliberately and ruthlessly. As Keynes explained, this itself is dangerous to economic stability: those at the bottom have reduced buying power, so those with the wealth are less motivated to invest in production, and more money goes into speculation instead – we saw how much speculative money was around last year, when some of it rushed out of real estate and finance, into commodities. The asset/credit bubble delayed the reckoning by allowing people to continue spending borrowed money, but without a reversal in the underlying trend of wealth concentration, that reckoning was bound to come. (If the Fed and other central banks had put up interest rates to stop the bubble inflating, it would have come earlier.)
bastion of sass #80:
Michael @84 tries to rebut this it’s “not really” about democrat hate, yet in the same post twice throws in words (“liberals” and “a Dem concept”) as objects of derision to be suspected simply because they’re democratic.
Yes Michael, thank you for proving the point of the post your were attempting to rebut, that it’s all about ideology to you.
Jason A.,
I pretty sure #80 was satirical. As for Michael, I think he’s real. Otherwise, he’s a unamusing, very dedicated Poe.
Knockgoats,
“As Keynes explained, this itself is dangerous to economic stability: those at the bottom have reduced buying power, so those with the wealth are less motivated to invest in production, and more money goes into speculation instead”
Except the buying power of those at the bottom has been increasing, and new industries have been built in China and elsewhere to service them. Who do you think shops at walmart?
I supposse Mr. Jindal would like to approve another saving measure by cutting in half hurricane monitoring. You only need to pray during hurricane season to avoid being hit by one. Why not use the same “logic” to avoid a volcanic eruption? It works unless you are a heathen. In such a case you deserve the divine wrath.
I am sure people in New Orleans and Washington State will give him the support he deserves.
volcanic eruptions also put ash in the path of aircraft. Advanced warning lets aircraft reroute. Many years ago a 747 had all its engines/motors flame out.
“Is there some new requirement in the Republican party that potential candidates for the presidency must be against basic science?”
No, there is no such requirement. Similarly, there is no requirement that atheists must be knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing Libtards.
—
http://www.chl-tx.com (I am not a Republican)
I believe you. Many morons aren’t Republicans.
One of the odder principles of the GOP is a flight from rationality and reason, the Enlightenment. Noted by most in their antiscience attitude and comments like Cheney’s, “Deficits don’t matter.” Oops, and here we are heading towards a depression.
Or blaming their failures on the Dems no matter how laughably delusional that is. For the first 7 years they blamed Clinton for their failures. Now they are blaming Obama. Who has been in power for 5 weeks.
The main one is cutting taxes while spending huge amounts of money we don’t have. With generous helpings of corruption and looting the USA for the super rich.
All this would consign them to the dustbin of history. Except the Dems aren’t all that much better. Counter cyclical Keynesian spending during a recession is standard. The largest stimulus package is the Chinese one, 2 trillion because they have it and need it. Our bill was flawed by every politician in the congress walking all over it. Peter Defazio voted for the first one, calling it the creature from the black lagoon. The second one he voted against because it had too many misaimed shots.
This is, after all, the same party that still claims to favor small government, balanced spending, and personal responsibility.
Indeed, they started blaming him well before the election. Of course, Obama may have special powers. He is “Barack the Magic Negro”, after all.
If volcanies are monitored it might prevent tragicles.
I love it. People have already decided that Jindal’s rising star has already crashed and burned. The GOP is running faster from him than you can say Ron Paul.
I believe I heard somewhere that much of the extra volcano monitoring expenditures, would be to replace/upgrade existing equipment and add new monitors, which probably will last for several decades, hence the reason many of the existing ones are old and in need of replacement.
Felix writes:
Wouldn’t it be great if Bobby was on vacation at Yellowstone when the big one blows? Last thoughts: hey, someone should have been watching this and told me about it.
It’d be ironic not “great” – you’re thinking like yahweh, there. “I know, I’ll f*ck up the entire west coast of the US just to teach this one monkeyboy a lesson!”
Perhaps Jindal can exorcise his own demons. The power of Christ compels me… to say stupid things!!! Get thee behind me Rush Limbaugh!!!!
Dear GOP,
I have a small request of your political party. Please, please, PLEASE keep Bobby Jindal on as your “rising star” and potential presidential candidate in 2012. Also, please keep his speech writer onboard and possibly give him a raise as an incentive to stick around. Stated simply, Bobby Jindal is a comic genius of the highest order full of folksy humor and down home whimsy. I believe that in these economically difficult times people need a certain amount of levity to help lift their spirits, much like radio entertainment and vaudville provided during the Great Depression. His particular brand of comic schtick may be just the thing this country needs to finally move on and move America forward.
Thank you.
When I hear such stupid drivel about science, I just imagine a different sort of “rapture” where all people with college educations and other fancy book learnin’ just mysteriously vanish, leaving all those ignorant doofuses to fare on their own.
It works ok for a while (I mean except for those who need medical care… they don’t survive for too long). Then problems start to happen, and nobody’s doing anything except praying.
Back to stone age, armageddon-style, in, say, a couple of weeks ?
Sometimes it’s just disheartening when you hear those people, steeped in the products of scientific inquiry, their cell-phones, cardiac surgery high-tech stents and drugs, internet and weather satellites, belittle the (badly rewarded, and pretty insecure for many) work of scientists.
It’s a small part of why I’ve finally decided not to pursue a science career. The bigger part has to do with the “badly rewarded and insecure” thing, along with the portion of their budget pharma companies dedicate to marketing and their prefered order in firing their employees.
@111; If there’s one thing you do NOT want behind you, it’s Rush Limbaugh. He might eat you.
You really need to see Idiocracy.
I believe the proper vernacular would be blow. ; p
I’ve been wanting to for a while. I’ve seen some scenes. It’s hard to find in my place. I shall have to order it in my next book-and-dvd spending binge (that is, when I manage to get a better job than my current minimum-wage thing).
After listening to Jindal, and contemplating the star power of the Jindal/Palin ticket, President Obama booked a three months vacation on Hawaii for fall 2012.
The irony of the governor of LA, of all places, deriding this led me to do a bit of Googling the other night — it turns out the entire claim is false. I read the pertinent section of the bill on thomas.gov, and it simply does not authorize $140 million for “volcano monitoring”. It authorizes $140 million for the USGS, listing about ten areas, *one* of which is volcanic monitoring. (Others include equipment and facilities upgrades and stream gage replacements, if memory serves.)
On my way to work (in the shadow of three active volcanoes, as it happens), so I don’t have time to find the actual link just now…
Oh, Jindal is far more intelligent than Palin, but his ideology forces him to think and speak like an idiot much of the time.
Chris at comment #25 wins the thread.
Why am I not surprised. In fact I was just about to ask if this really was in the bill since I’ve heard that the maglev between Disneyland and Las Vegas is also a myth*. With every passing moment the Republicans somehow continue to lose even more credibility (now in negative numbers) as they tell more lies and wallow in hypocrisy.
Does anyone happen to know the bill number?
Never mind. Found it here.
Except the buying power of those at the bottom has been increasing, and new industries have been built in China and elsewhere to service them. Who do you think shops at walmart? – Africangenesis
That may well be the case, and does not contradict what I said: that there has been a vast increase in the concentration of wealth. It is this, I believe, that Keynes identified as a danger to economic stability, for the reasons I gave: too much money in the hands of the rich for the available productive investment opportunities – hence, speculation and bubbles.
Capitalism being (more now than ever) a single worldwide system, we must also consider the gross imbalances that low Chinese and other poor country labour costs have caused: workers in those countries saving frantically (because they have no welfare state – instituting one would raise the labour costs of course) and producing cheap goods, while their savings are used by their governments to buy dollar bonds, keep the dollar high, and enable the USA to carry on importing despite its huge balance of payments deficit. Meanwhile US workers have had negative savings rates, and felt rich enough to keep spending only because of the asset/credit bubble. Now the bursting of that bubble has produced sharp cutbacks in American (and European) spending, resultant falls in low-labour-cost country exports, and knock-on effects in the countries they were importing capital goods from – most notably Japan and Germany. This has combined with the global bankers’ strike due to complete uncertainty as to what existing debts are unpayable (itself due to financial deregulation allowing the tower of opaque financial instruments to be built) to produce a capitalist crisis of huge, perhaps unprecedented proportions – although politicians and most economists are still in denial about its scale, at least in public. As a socialist you might think I’d welcome this possibly-final crisis of capitalism – but unfortunately a lot of people are going to suffer, and die prematurely, because of it; and the 1930s show the high risk of fascism and war following in its wake; so I don’t.
@mellowjohn, #46:
I’m taking your quote, “Republicans run for office saying government is the problem, and then when they get elected they prove it,” and citing it on my Facebook page as one of my favorites. Of course I will attribute it to you. Excellent quote.
Mark wrote:
I guess I don’t get it. Isn’t that the POINT of a stimulus? To stimulate the economy? It’s not supposed to be carrying the economy long term! The goal is to do short term measures to get the economy running again on its own, after which we stop spending on stimulus. These clowns blame the government for getting too involved, but then complain that the government isn’t doing it forever.
meanwhile, chuckgeote wrote:
And that’s why it is part of a stimulus package. It provides funds to hire workers and purchase much needed capital equipment. Of course, someone needs to build that equipment, someone needs to provide the parts to make it, and, probably most importantly, someone has to put in on the back of a semi and transport it. That is absolutely stimulus.
The fact that we also improve safety of our citizens is only an added benefit.
As a resident of Louisiana, let me just say that if we have to have another Republican president again, Jindal would be one of the better choices. From what I can see, he’s honest and relatively intelligent. Perhaps he believes that communities should pay to monitor their own volcanoes considering the financial crisis we’re in. There is a difference between disaster recovery and disaster prevention.
Jindal’s concern has little to do with the science, but the current Rethugnican talking point that Obama is rashly running the country into debt. Did you not hear the dark hiss of indrawn breath when he mentioned the massive deficit he inherited from the previous government?
How many of those who voted against the stimulus package voted for continued funding of the Iraq war?
What that shows is that they are not opposed to spending. It is only a matter of a difference of priorities. So they can get off their friggin high horse about the deficit.
I loved Obama’s comment that he is going to start including the cost of the Iraq war into the budget, and stop pretending that it doesn’t exist.
“”As a socialist you might think I’d welcome this possibly-final crisis of capitalism – but unfortunately a lot of people are going to suffer, and die prematurely, because of it; and the 1930s show the high risk of fascism and war following in its wake; so I don’t.””
But unfortunately, it isn’t a crises of Capitalism at all, but a cises of what happens when a central bank manipulates unfettered markets and government doesn’t do its job of prosecuting those who commit fraud.
The one-two punch of bad government in bed with financial and corporate interests and a deluded notion that they (Congress) have an open-ended checkbook that can continually spend beyond its means (regardless of volcanoes) is the primary cause of the cliff looming before us.
It is government that promoted a “credit” economy and it is Obama who claimed in his speech we need to get the “credit” flowing again…
Bullshit. We need to save money, increase our productive capacity, learn to live within our means and let these huge entities who raked up all of the cash and bought boats and jets with it FAIL.
Republican or Democrat– it IS THE REALITY OF WHERE WE ARE AT.
Wow Scott you don’t seem to understand that businesses use loans to expand, buy inventory and retool their factories. Long term investments that can be paid back over time.
That’s the credit Obama is trying to stimulate. That’s what banks are for.
I understand that businesses use loans to increase productive capacity, sure.
But Obama wants to increase spending.
The two reasons we are a bloated and beaching whale are borrowing and spending.
What is the Obama cure? Borrow from the Chinese and spend on pet projects here at home.
The “stimulous” will get swallowed by the enormity of the financial mess we are in. Congress will ask for another one, even larger, and the cycle will carry on for a decade or more while we all argue over Jindal’s squeaky volcanic voice.
Unfortunately, the second wave of housing foreclosures is getting underway. Next in line will be credit card defaults (coming to a summer near you) and the commercial real estate bubble, which will drawf the housing bubble. Too many box stores will close and office space will sit empty, which is great for indoor soccer clubs but not so good for America.
Meanwhile. all of the money Congress borrowed to throw on the fire will have helped it all burn.
Capital, remember, comes from savings. If you have to borrow it, you do not possess it.
increase our productive capacity
Shiva on the Failboat, you really have no clue about economics whatsoever. Increasing capacity in the face of rapidly dropping demand? That is your solution?
davidstvz @ 127:
This may be news to you, but natural disasters don’t respect state or county borders. What are the residents of, say, Washington state supposed to do if Oregon cheaps out on natural disaster preparedness, and the disaster affects Washington, too.
And Scott – wtf with the Slumdog Millionare comment? I thought you weren’t racistFree argument tip: if you’re going to insist, loudly and regularly, that you are not racist, it would help to not make racist comments.
So, Scott, you are saying the solution is for the government to decrease spending now?
Jindal would be one of the better choices. From what I can see, he’s honest and relatively intelligent.
Also, I hear he’s really good at getting rid of demons.
*Facepalm*
Dear doG, against what is he running, Hitler’s zombie ? Ooooh, Palin, right. That’s understandable then. Never mind.
Number of deaths ?
There’s a difference between leg amputation and diabetic pre-screening.
davidstvz, theres an old adage which goes,”it is better to remain silent and thought a fool…”
“”So, Scott, you are saying the solution is for the government to decrease spending now?””
The solution is to recognize the mathematical reality of where we are at as a nation.
Math does not lie.
When you are using credit cards to pay off debt, you are mathematically in a spiral. Your only saving grace is hoping a parent dies and leaves you a windfall, or a mysterious auntie…
When the government is forced to use borrowing from China to pay off bonds (from previous borrowing) it is in the same spiral.
It is a ponzi, plain and simple. There is no “hope” that changes the math, nor a mysterious “auntie”. IF America invents and builds something really cool that the rest of the world wants, that would be the equivalent of a mysterious auntie, but making that gamble via do nothing politicians is irrational.
The great nation of America is grovelling to keep its spending habits afloat. That’s a FACT, and it is not a pretty fact.
The sooner the entire nation humbles itself and comes to realize this, the better. we are a nation of grovelling borrowers who spent too much and got too fat and played entirely too much golf…
But unfortunately, it isn’t a crises of Capitalism at all Scott from Oregon
1) The world has a capitalist economy.
2) The world economy is in crisis.
3) Therefore, this is a crisis of capitalism.
Simple, really; and sound whatever your diagnosis of the causes.
Now, back to the killfile with Scott.
Or a better paying job or a second job, or the spouse/partner going back to work, or the kids taking on financial responsibility, or downsizing, or selling stuff on ebay…
You are the King of the false dichotomies/misleading statements.
how far the mighty have fallen. a hundred and five years ago they were crazy but at least better able to express themselves:
(interestingly, this guy rohde immigrated to alaska from germany, in 1895, i believe.)
from “God and Government,
OR
CHRIST OUR KING IN
CIVIC AND SOCIAL RIGHTEOUSNESS
by J. Martin Rohde, A.M., 1904
Quote: SHOULD our federal Constitution be amended by inserting a section recognizing Jesus Christ as the Ruler of Nations, and declaring his revealed will as the supreme authority in civil affairs? This is a question of earnest debate in many minds.
The Reformed Presbyterian Church and other influential religious bodies contend that we cannot be a Christian nation without a distinct recognition of divine rulership in our national Constitution.
The Covenanter Church in the United States even requires, as a condition of membership, the acceptance of the position known as that of political dissent. This signifies that her members shall not accept any civil office or trust in which there is required an oath of allegiance to the present Constitution of the United States, nor vote for any officer who is required to take such an oath. This position is said to be maintained “in no spirit of unpatriotic disloyalty to our country, but in the spirit of patriotic loyalty to our Lord.”
3 33
[snip]
Outward forms do not constitute a Christian nation. While it is obvious that we might acknowledge divine rulership in our federal Constitution and still be essentially a pagan nation, it is also apparent that, all things else being favorable, we can be and are really a Christian nation, even without such a formal acknowledgment. Not by egislation or formal declarations, but alone by evangelization and the inculcation of spiritual life and Gospel principles, can our nation be truly Christianized.
Close quote.
http://www.archive.org/stream/godgovernmentorc00rohd/godgovernmentorc00rohd_djvu.txt
And China has to lend you… for now. That can change faster than you think. There are powerful emerging markets with more potential than north america.
Credit is only part of the problem. The main problem is that we in the western world make very little of what we buy, because it’s cheaper to have it made in China. It has killed our economies from inside.
Global free market, or rather global corporatism, has done that, all on its own. Credit has just made it happen later (and admittedly more catastrophically) than it would have otherwise.
In Canada the blows have been softer till now, because we have better social nets in addition to government or cooperatively-owned businesses (here we have for example Hydro-Québec – world reknown expertise in massive dam building- and Desjardins, a cooperatively owned bank).
In times of recession, corporations will fire massively (they are required to do what’s best for their stockholders, not for the community) while the government/coop workforce will stay stable or increase, sustaining what’s left of the economy.
John Bolton continues the right-wing asshole tradition, to boot:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/02/john-bolton-cpac-benefits-nuking-chicago
The benefits of nuking Chicago. Very nice, dipshit.
Scott, are you sure you are from Oregon? This is a grammatical error that I hear more commonly in the midwest.
I don’t know what to call it. The “hanging, unnecessary at”?
two things:
this i thought was very funny — it sounds so dirty when he says “increasing” and “service them.”
but the funniest part is the idea that proof of increased buying power “of those at the bottom” is the fact that they’re shopping at walmart. yeah, people buy cheap, poisonous crap from china because they’re just that affluent they don’t have to care about long or short-term health effects, plus poor people hate america and prefer to buy chinese. except for the poor people who lurv amurka who buy cheap, poisonous chinese crap for the very patriotic reason that unions suck so it’s better to buy stuff from places where they can be pretty sure their money end up as income for any union members.
see comment above about speculation. duh.
So Jindal can’t understand “volcano monitoring” and its merits. If that’s his view, then maybe the US can dispense with monitoring flooding and water levels in the Mississippi. Better yet, why have the US Army Corps of Engineers build levees on the lower Mississippi. Surely, Louisianans know better than to put themselves in harms way in the flood plain of that river. They can just get out of the way when the waters rise. That’s just common sense. So I say down with levee building, flood control projects, a the monitoring of the Mississippi’s water levels upstream of Louisiana. They’re just boondoogles for a bunch of idiots who can tell high water from low water.
According to Scott’s logic, a company can’t ever borrow to invest and make more money later. After all, the math says that you’re losing money and borrowing, and the math does not lie.
“”But unfortunately, it isn’t a crises of Capitalism at all Scott from Oregon
1) The world has a capitalist economy.
2) The world economy is in crisis.
3) Therefore, this is a crisis of capitalism.
Simple, really; and sound whatever your diagnosis of the causes.
Now, back to the killfile with Scott.””
Umm, no. The world has a capitalistic driver with socialistic passengers who have been interfering with the driver for the duration of the trip.
Even a moron knows we run on a mixed system, and most morons know that the suppression of the market impulses by Greenspan and Bernanke and the outright ignorance of the market impulse by Congress led to all of this malinvestment and exploding bubbles.
Capitalism has been the force behind both good and bad human impulses, sure. But which country would uyou rather live in, North Korea or South?
Socialist Russia or America?
Even Putin is telling the US not to go down that road.
Go figure.
“”When you are using credit cards to pay off debt, you are mathematically in a spiral. Your only saving grace is hoping a parent dies and leaves you a windfall, or a mysterious auntie…
Or a better paying job or a second job, or the spouse/partner going back to work, or the kids taking on financial responsibility, or downsizing, or selling stuff on ebay…
You are the King of the false dichotomies/misleading statements.””
Ummm, sure, but why would you be paying off debt with credit cards if those options were already available in your scenario?
As for the government, why don’t YOU tell me where the US government is going to get the 12 trillion it owes to the rest of the world?
A second job?
About the only untapped asset we have to sell is military hardware.
Great.
“Scott, are you sure you are from Oregon? This is a grammatical error that I hear more commonly in the midwest.”
I’m an Airforce/United Nations/son of Pan Am pilot brat so I say Mum and dude in the same sentence.
“”According to Scott’s logic, a company can’t ever borrow to invest and make more money later. After all, the math says that you’re losing money and borrowing, and the math does not lie.””
Actually, the ONLY borrowing that should take place is one that will directly increase productive capacity.
On a grander scale, the production from the world markets is reaching saturation point, in other words, we are producing so much unnecessary stuff already, one wonders how much more stuff can we produce?
That’s why I keep advocating smaller government spheres, more localism and local economies that simply exists and sustain themselves.
The need to keep producing crap on a global scale then diminishes, saving the planet and reintroducing humans to their neighbors…
The solution:
Balanced Federal Budget.
Term Limits for Congress/Senate 6/12 years, respectively.
Get rid of Gerrymandering.
===
This would force spenders in both parties to actually make hard decisions between worthy programs and cut the ones that do not work. And keep a little extra around for the hard times. Want social security, unlimited war, subsidies for Agriculture, green-tech, biodiesel, ethanol, solar, wind an on and on and on.
Fine. Pay for them. Here is the cost. Raise taxes to do it. Or dont do it.
The fourth part of the solution is with the American people: Understand that there are good times and bad. There are no guarantees to a good life, quit expecting the government to provide it to you and go out and make it for yourself. You’ll be happier you tried.
Scott:
me:
Scott:
Me: Huh? What are you talking about? Certainly nothing to do with my post.
Scott:
“”I’m an Airforce/United Nations/son of Pan Am pilot brat so I say Mum and dude in the same sentence.
Me: Huh? What are you talking about? Certainly nothing to do with my post.””
You asked me where I was from. My answer is that I’m not “from” anywhere in particular, therefore you can’t use regional analysis on my speech patterns. Is that better?
Karen Marie,
“but the funniest part is the idea that proof of increased buying power “of those at the bottom” is the fact that they’re shopping at walmart”
You misread the point of those shopping at walmart, it was not a proof of their increased buying power but rather a contradiction of this point of Knockgoats:
‘so those with the wealth are less motivated to invest in production, and more money goes into speculation instead”
Those with the wealth invested in the production that enabled walmart. So the buying power of the “poor” in the US was still enought to justify investment. The “speculation” that Knockgoats is concerned about was instead a result of a savings glut and federal reserve policies lowering interest rates. Savings were chasing returns and taking on too much leverage to increase the potential returns. The returns were so low that the market incentives were to borrow and spend now, and repay in cheaper dollars. Of course it doesn’t help the returns when profits get double taxed at the insistence of the Democrats. And it doesn’t help reduce the risk, when the Democrats insist on using FANNIE and FREDDIE as instruments to achived “social justice” while feathering their campaign warchests.
TO: Ron Hager | February 26, 2009 3:39 AM Post #81
So credentials is what you need to see to validate an opinion. Well here you go:
California PG #8435
Tennessee PG# 4563
expired PG licenses in Virgina, Kentucky, and North Carolina as well. I have 10 plus years working for environmental, petroleum, and regulatory agencies. I most recently have been participating in the re-write of California’s LUFT Manual.
No one said monitoring is not important but we already have the technology in place for this and irregardless it does NOT belong in a stimulus package! Think people!
Prof. Myers,
I wonder if you have any empathy for the families who are being saddled with mountains of debt to pay for this ‘stimulus’ package. $25,000 per taxpayer.
“Math does not lie.”
Scott from Oregon
Yet people regularly lie by using math.
“Economics” is based on gross simplifications & vast areas of exclusion and has neither scientific nor real world basis (ie. all “economic theories” repeatedly fail to predict real world behavior).
Not everything that can be counted matters. Not everything that matters can or (as in economics) will be counted.
Scott from Oregon
“”Yet people regularly lie by using math.
“Economics” is based on gross simplifications & vast areas of exclusion and has neither scientific nor real world basis (ie. all “economic theories” repeatedly fail to predict real world behavior).
Not everything that can be counted matters. Not everything that matters can or (as in economics) will be counted.””
Absolutely. But when you look at the basic truth, you see it in big, bold as day negative numbers.
The entire US financial conundrum boils down to this– Can America continue to sell its T-bonds overseas to the Japs and the Chinese in order to allow for our citizens to get free stuff without having to produce the wealth first?
China and Japan both have recessions brewing, partly because the US sold them a bunch of worthless paper already and can’t pay it back. China has a choice. Use its reserves so that its own citizens get a “stimulous” and infrastructure, or loan it to the profligate Americans, who want to buy more crap and spend it on stuff to “stimulate” themselves.
America is so broke it sent Hillary to China to grovel and beg and try and convince the Chinese that without Americans buying their crap, they’ll suffer badly. Never mind that the rest of Asia is rising economically and can act as a surrogate for American crap buying, as well as Russia, and, if the Chinese decouple from our dollar, within their own country to their own middle class.
Call me stupid, but I think China “gets it” far more than Americans do at this point. We still think we have a right to Chinese money (loans) so we can spend it on “Volcano monitoring” and repaving and what have you.
I wonder if you have any empathy for the families who are being saddled with mountains of debt to pay for this ‘stimulus’ package. $25,000 per taxpayer.
It’s funny how all you people scream about having to pay for a stimulus plan, but I imagine you’d rather pay the taxes and keep your fucking job. If this economy doesn’t get some relief soon, untold numbers of people (including most likely you) will not have a job. Of course, with no income, you can’t pay taxes, so hoorah! No taxes at last!
It’s time to take a serious look at raising the top bracket rates to Reagan era levels, at a minimum,, and close the loopholes that mostly only the rich can use (2nd home exemptions, for instance). And no whining about how that would “kill” the market. The market worked well enough in the 50s and 60s, when the upper rate was well over Reagan’s 50% (90% during the Eisenhower years–the golden age all the republicants seem to want to go back to!).
Sadly, anti-science populist posturing is an affliction of both parties. I’m reminded of the late Democratic senator, grade-A moron, and contemptible windbag, William Proxmire.
The fact is that science is the low-hanging fruit. Anyone can take potshots at it and win plaudits from an ever-growing population of scientific illiterates. I really don’t know what to do about it, except to publicly embarrass the “Aw shucks” brigade of ignoramuses whenever and wherever they appear.
Dennis at #35 wrote that when Yellowstone blows (again…) it will result in “many” deaths.
Holy fucking understatement, Batman.
Carry on.
Has anyone read Rush Limbaugh’s rant about why he loves Jindal?
Excerpt: “We got lie after lie after lie spoken as well as it’s ever been said. We had nothing said last night, unless you knew who this guy is, and are willing to admit it, then you could walk out of that room last night scared to death for your country. But if you don’t know who the guy is, you walk out of there feeling great because, man, he sounds smart, and it looked good, and, wow, everybody loved him, and, oh, it’s sort of like the faith people have in God. You can’t prove it, but you know it. You can’t tell anybody why, but you know it. Same thing here. People who don’t believe in God believe in Obama. Agnostics, atheists, because believe me, a planeload of atheists on a jet on the way to Hawaii and three of the four engines go out, the atheists start praying to who? God. Not the ocean, to save ’em. Everybody believes in God at some point, but not until they face their mortality. Everybody does. They have some God. Very few people think they’re it. Obama is one. I think when Obama prays, it’s to himself. Those of us who know him know this. Those of us who don’t care about that, who just want symbolism, feel so good. ”
Link here: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_022509/content/01125108.guest.html
Fuck I hate that guy with such a passion.
I’m glad to know that Rush Limbaugh has such special insight into Obama. Must be from all that extra time he spends with him. I mean, us mere mortals have to make our impressions from what he says and does. Rush apparently has access to well beyond that.
Limbaugh is so full of shit, it squirts out his ears with every step he takes, squirts out his mouth whenever he speaks, and winds up getting all over everyone and everything he happens to address or regard.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAAAAAAAH!
I have one word for you, you stupid, ingenuous fucktard:
No, on second thought, figure it out for yourself.
“I wonder if you have any empathy for the families who are being saddled with mountains of debt to pay for this ‘stimulus’ package.”
I didn’t see the fatass have a lot of sympathy for me when he was pushing to continue the invasion of Iraq. I was similarly saddled with mountains of debt for that crap, too.
The “speculation” that Knockgoats is concerned about was instead a result of a savings glut – Africangenesis
Which is pretty much what I said – but of course the savings glut was entirely among the US rich, with their vastly increased share of national wealth, and among workers in low-labour-cost countries, frantically saving because they have no state safety net for sickness or old age and no company pension worth the name. The majority of Americans have been deep in debt, if only on their mortgages – but rising real estate prices kept them from feeling the pinch until the price crash. The glut from the American rich went mostly into speculation, that from the Chinese and other workers into buying dollar bonds. As the link I gave showed (and this information is available from many places), mortgage loans to the poor were a small fraction of the total of bad loans; and the entire total of bad loans was small in relation to the tower of CDOs and CDSs permitted by financial deregulation – both in the US and elsewhere – in response to the dominance of “free-market” dogma over the past three decades. financial regulation was tightened after the last great crash to prevent another financial bubble-and-burst; these regulations were scrapped; and here we are with another one. I’d have thought even you might learn something from that sequence of events.
Low US interest rates may have kept the bubble going longer than it would otherwise have done by allowing real estate prices to keep rising, but higher rates would have pushed the dollar up further, cheapening imports even more. The fundamental imbalances were not soluble using interest rates.
Talking of wacky Republican presidential wannabes, this one has to be seen to be believed:
Alan Keyes on Obama
Talking of wacky Republican presidential wannabes, this one has to be seen to be believed:
Alan Keyes on Obama
What follows is an economics lecture. You may ignore it as you please.
While Milton Friedman’s dictum that “inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon” may be the most famous tag line in monetary economics, I have always preferred Rudi Dornbusch’s “It takes two nominals to make a real”. A change in a nominal variable, like the money supply, can affect the real economy only if some other nominal variable, like wages, is “sticky” enough to give it some traction.
The converse is also true: a change in the real economy always mandates changes in the ratio of two nominal variables; one must invoke some nominal mechanism to determine how the numerator and the denominator change. Let us call money supply M and nominal price level P. Thus a growth in aggregate supply normally increases real balances, M/P; but only if M does not grow sufficiently is the result a fall in P.
So what is the sticky nominal variable that explains how changes in the real economy are translating into downward pressure on prices? In the case of countries with fixed exchange rates, the obvious answer is the nominal exchange rate. After Hong Kong reverted to China the changes in the HK economy’s external environment mandated a depreciated real exchange rate – or to anthropomorphize a bit, the economy “wants” a depreciated real exchange rate. Since the nominal rate was fixed, however, this could only be accomplished via deflation.
But how do we make sense of seemingly inexorable deflationary pressures in economies without fixed exchange rates? Think of it this way: the real side of any economy determines a number of equilibrium relative (not nominal) prices. Among these prices is the price of current goods in terms of future goods (which is a funny way of saying the real interest rate, but bear with me). We may loosely think of this relative price as being determined by the supply of savings and the demand for investment both under the assumption of full employment.
Let us now look at the components of this relative price. Let P be the current nominal price level, i the one-period nominal interest rate, and Pe the expected future price level. Then the price of current goods in terms of future goods – that is, the quantity of future goods one must give up to consume one more unit in the present – is P(1+i)/Pe or a bit more conventionally (1+i)(P/Pe).
Clearly, the economy “wants” a lower value of P/Pe, in the same sense that Hong Kong’s economy “wants” a depreciated real exchange rate. And because Pe is sticky, because people have some notion about what prices will be in the future, this adjustment comes via a fall in P.
But a lower value of P/Pe (a lower current price level as compared with the expected future level) is the same as a higher expected future price level as compared with the present, aka inflation. Thus we are led inexorably to a seemingly paradoxical conclusion: Deflation is an economy’s way of “trying” to get the expected inflation it needs.