I reported before that Nebraska state senator Ernie Chambers was suing god for committing evil and making terroristic threats. I’m sorry to say now that God beat the rap, and now has something in common with O.J. Simpson. Of course, he got off on a technicality.
“Given that this court finds that there can never be service effectuated on the named defendant this action will be dismissed with prejudice,” Judge Polk wrote in his ruling.
So just because god is really good at hiding, or nonexistent, nobody can sue him? I think the judge should have at least issued a standing order for his arrest in case he ever does show up.
“I think the judge should have at least issued a standing order for his arrest in case he ever does show up.”
Don’t they have Roman “double jeopardy” laws somewhere on the books still?
My understanding of process service is vague but couldn’t they have served one of his agents?
I wonder if Sarah Palin qualifies as an Agent of God.
Even if he never shows his face, couldn’t something be done about all his businesses? Like, shutting them down since they are continuing to spread his malice.
Too bad. God could have turned Himself in and stayed in jail and not intervened to save people and then we’d all really miss Him and demand He be let out of jail, just like in the movie Hancock.
Except just like Hancock He’s imaginary.
You know OJ was just convicted, right?
You remind me of another bearded terrorist who is also good at hiding.
Perhaps God is in Pakistan!
Is that OK, establishment-wise?
Wow, I actually pointed this out (over on the Post-debate thread, at comment #76) less than an hour ago. Just a coincidence? Or have I actually, for once, made a contribution that genuinely interests people? :-)
Couldn’t they have subpoenaed the Pope?
Mr. Chambers should immediately file an appeal and slap a lien against heaven.
Good movie, gives about equal time to hacking insurance companies as it does organized religion:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268437/
Just ignore the hackneyed ending…
Eh, there’s still room for appeal.
They say Judge Jones’ ruling sets no precedent beyond his own district.
Maybe this does? Surely the God who cannot be served (and all or nearly all IDiots slip up and call the designer God at some point) cannot be taught as a cause. Nor would it seem at all reasonable for government to teach anyone to serve him, when he is judged unable to be served (yes, it’s a pun on serve, but I’m serious that if he cannot “be served”, how the hell can one religiously serve God? And skip the Courtier’s Reply).
This case might actually affect some case law (probably not teaching ID, but other issues), so what looked like a silly exercise might make some people note that God truly must be judged absent.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
More evidence that judges display the same liberal, anti-Christian bias as the mainstream media. A good Christian judge would have cited Matthew 18:20 and served the nearest church.
But at least George Burns had the decency to show up for court in Oh, God! My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken the American judicial system?
I thought God lives in churches? Doesn’t He save churches from tornadoes and stuff like that? Whole towns are wiped out but the churches are always left standing. There have been many many documented cases of this, many many times throughout history.
that’s why you need to sue the catholic church as god’s representative on earth.
Heh. If I were a judge and that suit came before me, I would have dismissed it on the grounds that fictional characters can’t be sued.
Couldn’t god have appeared as a cracker?
“Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there.”
–God in some ancient text
Couldn’t they get two people to pray and read the summons out loud with them in the room?
@Chiroptera:
That’s not the best way to do it. Rule that since god is omniscient, he already knows about being served.
Then start placing liens when he doesn’t show up for the trial and defaults.
There is legal precedent for going ahead with the suit. God can be tried in absentia. Failure to appear is His problem, not the plaintiff’s. Up for grabs then are all His earthly goods, which includes billions in real estate, priceless artwork, precious metals and gems, investments, and untaxed unreported income.
Lou Gottlieb of Morningstar Ranch commune fame, deeded his property to god to keep the bulldozers from coming in and knocking down his hippy houses.
The ruling there was that god was unable to sign a deed, therefore…
When Lou died, his property filled up with old hippies coming to pay their respects and get naked (it was exactly as scary as it sounds)in the redwood groves above his cabin.
Living in Nebraska, I can safely say that Ernie Chambers is about as nuts as they get – this whole lawsuit of his against God is little more than his last hurrah before he leaves office. (Chambers whole point in this was to point out how easy it was to produce meaningless, frivolous lawsuits.)
That said, I find it odd that because the judge said that due to the inability of the court to find an address to which to serve the papers, God could not be sued, doesn’t this throw a rather large wrench in the whole “religion” scam? I mean, the very biography of “God” is that of an omniscient being. If He is indeed “all-knowing,” shouldn’t He automatically know He was being served papers? Is He just being an asshole by ignoring the law, law that too many religious ‘tards state are Judeo-Christian in origin and nature? If you think about it, this would have been a great opportunity for God to show up and put an end to all the uncertainty. (Hell, looking at the Bible, God showed up so often you would have thought He had nothing better to do with His days than fuck with people’s heads.) And if churches are no safe bet that a legal summons will ever make it to God’s eyes, what makes people think mindless thought patterns (i.e., prayer) are ever going to make it to God’s to-do list?
To his credit, Chambers, in his hubris, has actually given us evil atheists a few more debate points to throw in fundies’ faces…
So does Ernie Chambers get a hard time from his religious constituents or do they just ignore him as a harmless eccentric?
Off Subject. Last night I watched a programme on ITV by Griff Rhys Jones on the City of London and some footage was done of Sir Christopher Wrens magnificent St Pauls Cathedral and some of his remaining 25 city churches. Then Griff added that most churches in the city were empty and locked up on Sundays. So I went to bed with a smile while you watched ‘the debate’.
If He did have to defend Himself in court, whom would he swear his oath to?
“…and nothing but the truth, so help Me Me”
Walton #8 wrote “Wow, I actually pointed this out (over on the Post-debate thread, at comment #76) less than an hour ago. Just a coincidence? Or have I actually, for once, made a contribution that genuinely interests people? :-)”
Even a broken clock is right twice-a-day.
;-)
Wow, I actually pointed this out (over on the Post-debate thread, at comment #76) less than an hour ago… have I actually, for once, made a contribution that genuinely interests people?
No; I pointed this out last night during the debate. I’m sure many others have as well.
If He did have to defend Himself in court, whom would he swear his oath to?
Joe Pesci.
On this subject: If you have not, you should check out the books ‘Towing Jehovah’ and ‘Blameless in Abaddon’ by James Morrow. Both funny reads, very entertaining.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156002108/ref=sim_books/102-5758205-3492166
From the article I linked on a previous post:
“Therefore, Chambers said, ‘Since God knows everything, God has notice of this lawsuit.'”
Sounds legit to me
@Walton #8
I actually did the same thing, on the post about Bilack for congress, I guess we’re all on the same page!
In my jurisdiction, you can serve the defendant by leaving the complaint “at his most notorious place of abode.” Could they have nailed the suit to the summit of Mount Sinai?
That’s what George Burns said in O God!
A la True Bob’s comment (#18), if I were the process server, I’d have gone to the nearest Catholic Church and waited for them to say the magic words over the cracker, then slap it with a summons!
From a lawyer friend of mine, regarding the ‘God is omniscient, and therefor knows about he lawsuit’:
[14:44] : since you post, please inform the masses that knowledge is not sufficient means of notice, one must be served with the papers personally if the request is asking for equitable relief
[14:44] : an injunction is requesting the courts protection from a specific action, thus is considered a request for equitable relief
^– #34 above was me… goofed typing on my own name.
Here’s to hoping that Tim LaHaye and co. don’t catch wind of this. From what I remember of the Left Behind film, one of the major signs of the “End Times” is that god is put on trial, literally. Apparently this signals that the evil atheists and the devil have taken over, or something.
So… did we win?
Hasn’t Richard Dawkins been sued by that Huron AyAy or what ever guy in Turkey for saying he is an ignoramus on his Creation Atlas? Richard hasn’t been served with papers either. But he was told by people in Turkey he should hire a lawyer. By that reasoning God should hire a lawyer in Nebraska, even though he hasn’t been served papers either.
knowledge is not sufficient means of notice, one must be served with the papers personally if the request is asking for equitable relief
An omnipresent God would have been personally served as soon as the papers existed.
Sir Craig:
Obviously god is one of those Ohio voters improperly registered by ACORN.
Most states, maybe all of them, have a procedure for serving defendants who are missing, or who are ducking service. I think the papers get served on the state’s Secretary of State, and there’s some kind of legal notice that gets published, and then the suit can proceed. Something like that.
The problem isn’t getting the suit filed, it’s collecting if you win.
…of kidnapping and armed robbery, not for the whole stabbing-his-wife-and-her-lover thing. So, we have to wait now until god shows up in vegas to get his memorabilia back at gunpoint before we can sling his non-existent ass in jail?
Failure to appear.
Contempt of court.
I want to see god wearing a bright orange jumpsuit out on the side of the highway picking up litter. And paying $20 per day for the privilege. Hell, I’d pay $20 to see it!
For his sake, it’s probably a good thing that God Shammgod went to Georgetown and not the University of Nebraska. Also that there are no IBL teams in Nebraska
He isn’t the first to sue god. I remember a few years ago someone sued god for essentially giving him a lousy life. I believe his demands included professional-grade guitar playing skills and the resurrection of his mother. He tried to convince the judge that he would be entitled to some monetary compensation should god fail to show up in court.
“I think the judge should have at least issued a standing order for his arrest in case he ever does show up.”
Oh, please. You don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to prove that he exists, but there is sufficient evidence to convict him of a crime?
All the evidence against him is either circumstantial or hearsay.
Last time god (allegedly) was among us, it was in the form of jesus sob christ, and he wasn’t all that visible, judging from contemporary records.
But maybe he is re-visiting us in the form of Osama Bin Laden? Osama is VERY good at hiding from certain delirious Americans, he is a thorn in their side, and also practising some of the biblical stuff. Something parallel to Jericho?
When you deal with fairy tales you might as well do a proper make-believe.
But how about starting with banning god’s filthy books?
That would be a good start for the ol’ senator!
J Myers at 38 wittily said:
An omnipresent God would have been personally served as soon as the papers existed.
Ahh, but an omniscient, omnipotent God created the universe with full foreknowledge that these papers would exist. Of course, being omnipotent God could have created the world another way, so we can only assume God created the universe in order to be served.
SkepSci at 45 wrote;
“Oh, please. You don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to prove that he exists, but there is sufficient evidence to convict him of a crime?
All the evidence against him is either circumstantial or hearsay.”
Oh, so YOUR that guy which took part in the “humour aversion therapy”!
We only have circumstantial evidence for dark matter, yet we spend lots of time and money looking for it. So too, so many things in science. Nothing wrong with positing the plausibility (yet great unlikelihood) of the existence of God. That’s essentially the position taken up by Richard Dawkins, for example.
As for your “all evidence against God is circumstantial” remark, well, while that is true, all evidence for the existence of God is circumstantial too – and the burden of proof is on the believer, not the unbeliever, to prove their case.
Does anyone know what “dismissed with prejudice” means in legaleze?
Speaking of Lawyers and the Devil, you ever hear the one about the Engineer who went to hell?
I think it’s judge talk for “bring this before me again and I will toss your ass in jail”. Or something to that effect.
Can’t papers just be served at any (or every) registered (for tax exemption of course) religious institution within the courts jurisdiction.
Every Church, Mosque, synagogue, temple etc etc.
If He did have to defend Himself in court
The notion of an omnipotent being having to do something is incoherent — it isn’t subject to coercion.
whom would he swear his oath to?
Know your rights: it isn’t necessary to swear to anyone.
Does anyone know what “dismissed with prejudice” means in legaleze?
It’s incompetent to ask such questions in the age of google.
“I think the judge should have at least issued a standing order for his arrest in case he ever does show up.”
Oh, please. You don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to prove that he exists, but there is sufficient evidence to convict him of a crime?
Idiotic non sequitur. The need for a standing order is because he’s charged with a crime; the person you’re responding to didn’t say there’s any evidence that he’s committed a crime, let alone sufficient evidence.
All the evidence against him is either circumstantial or hearsay.
Idiotic drivel. What sort of evidence is there that there is no Easter Bunny?
Heh. If I were a judge and that suit came before me, I would have dismissed it on the grounds that fictional characters can’t be sued.
What’s your legal basis for the claim that god is fictional?
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god is above being bothered by your courts.
he’s too busy dealing with the trailer trash in the bible belt.
Morningstar Commune, (Morning Star Ranch, The Digger Farm), was an active open land counterculture commune in (Occidental) Sebastopol near San Francisco. Morningstar was part of the historical changing society of young adults in the 1960’s that traveled back and forth between the Haight-Ashbury and Sebastopol.
Lou Gottlieb After a brief stint reviewing concerts for the “San Francisco Chronicle,” moved to Morning Star Ranch , his 30-acre ranch in Sonoma County, in 1966. Many people will remember fondly “The Digger Farm,” as it came to be called, Lou coined acronym LATWIDNO (Land Access To Which Is Denied No One) for everyone coming to the Ranch. The Ranch was in existence for a very short time but many of those traveling through the Haight traveled to the Ranch. We have documented its story at the links provided below and the impact Lou had as the “resident piano player,” as he referred to himself. Gottlieb attempted to leave the land he owned to God. A series of court appeals culminated in the 9th district court ruling that he could not. The ruling centered around the fact that if God was named owner on a quit claim deed, there would be no recourse for the collection of property taxes. The finding, therefore, was that God has no property rights in the state of California.
This Morningstar Commune frightened Ronald Reagan then Governor of California and he vowed to remove it from the face of the earth.
Huh, funny you should mention that. Gawd tried Ernie in absentia over at my blog.
Hold on there.
They are saying that they have to drop the case because: …”there can never be service effectuated on the named defendant”…
Doesn’t make sense to me. God, if ‘god’ is really ‘God’, is , by definition, omniscient and omnipresent. Which makes him/her about eh easiest entity of all time to serve notice on. Stand up anywhere and proclaim the charge and he/she is, by definition’ served. In fact, just issuing the notice to serve is service enough. If he/she can keep track of every sparrow that falls then keeping up with all the legal notices should be an insignificant burden.
In fact, seeing as that omniscience also transcends time and space, God should be able to show up in court slightly before the order to appear has been issued. Failure to do so shows contempt of the court and implies both guilt and a willing and conscious attempt to flee justice.
The defendant, “god”, is alleged to be omniscient, that is, knowing and seeing all things. Given this claim, there are three possibilities:
1. The defendant exists, and is omniscient, in which case he is already fully aware of the charges against him.
2. The defendant exists, and is not omniscient, in which case he is committing fraud by claiming to be so, and such a charge should be added to the indictment.
3. The defendant does not exist, in which case it is quite impossible to sue him, but his followers who collect money for the use of a nonexistent being are guilty of fraud and theft by deception.
In addition, while in any case no address can be found to serve a notice to the defendant, there are many people who claim to be representatives thereof, and thus would be able to pass on such a notice. Again, there are three possiblities:
1. Those claiming to be representatives of the defendant are capable of passing on a message, and have done so, in which case the defendant has been served.
2. Those claiming to be representatives of the defendant are capable of passing on a message, and have not done so, in which case they are knowingly and deliberately interfering with the service of a lawsuit and should thus be held in contempt of court.
3. Those claiming to be representatives of the defendant are not capable of passing on a message, in which case their claims to represent the defendant constitute fraud.
If Nebraska procedure is like Texas, then the court’s ruling makes sense. Just claiming that the defendant knows about the suit is not sufficient. There has to be verifiable service according to the State’s rules. Now, there are procedures for some kinds of suits to serve notice by publication, or for corporations to serve registered agents or the secretary of state. But, even if these exceptions applied, it is up to the plaintiff to request them. If he does not, then the court has little choice.
Ruling that the defendant cannot be served is not the same as ruling that he exists.
Further, churches etc (even Palin) are not recognized as legal agents of god simply because they may claim to be. An agent relationship is created based on conduct by the principal (god) not the agent. So, unless god does something to affirmatively represent that someone is an agent, he has no agents to be served.