Rick was handed a nice tri-fold glossy pamphlet as he was walking to a fireworks display. It’s titled “What If”, and what it is is a collection of — you guessed it — bible quotes to extort your obedience to a goofy religion. Rick has handled the details, so I’ll just cut to the conclusion. It asks, “Based on the authority of these Scriptures, just think, WHAT IF you received Christ today? Just think, WHAT IF you don’t?”
The opening clause covers my response pretty well. “Based on the authority of these scriptures,” which is nonexistent, I don’t have to accept anything they say, and can throw it away. Or, at least, I’d reduce it to the one phrase in the whole mess that I do think is good advice.
“Just think.”
Now, where is our glossy pamphlet like this — only, like, not stupid — that we can give out to glad-handing god-dabblers?
God’s got a great PR campaign, it’s just there isn’t much substance…
Those lovely What If-questions. You can ask anything with What If-questions. For example:
“What if evil penguins attack us from their secret moonbase and enslave all of us”.
What If *add lunacy here*…
Not sure about the ‘great’ part. Prolific maybe. Nice dissection of the piece by Rick there. Especially the ‘If God doesn’t demonstrate his love its meaningless’ bit.
My favorite such pamphlet says on the cover: “What you miss by being a Christian.”
When you open the pamphlet it says in big, red block letters: “HELL”
I’ve kept this pamphlet for almost twenty years on my bookshelf–it’s always good for a laugh from visitors.
Normal Bob Smith has a selection of Anti-tracts. Granted, he hands them out while covered in red makeup and wearing devil horns, so I don’t know if that meets your “not stupid” qualification.
This is why I keep copies of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism brochures to give to them in exchange.
I always hit them with the “what if Muslims are right” retort. Blows their minds…
Okay, where is he?
How exactly do I receive something that doesn’t seem to exist?
Freedom From Religion has some great “nontracts” available too:
http://ffrf.org/nontracts/
Hell and heaven, the most idiotic beliefs ever invented, is the only reason religions didn’t go extinct a long time ago. If there was no life after death for people to fear or look forward to, there would be no reason to waste a Sunday morning going to church. Fortunately for the worthless preachers who sell the heaven hell nonsense, their gullible customers will never be able to ask for their money back.
At last! A church that does good works. Free Jesus water! The congregants of that church probably don’t realize that handing out water on a hot day is probably the greatest benefit they’ll provide anyone for a long time. Amen.
Here is another warning for you.
Signs of Jesus Return (Eclipses of 2014 – 2015)Pt.2
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=02b506e34e2e72822b9a
If a picture paints a thousand words,
Then why can’t I paint you?
The words will never show the you I’ve come to know.
If a face could launch a thousand ships,
Then where am I to go?
There’s no one home but you,
You’re all that’s left me too.
And when my love for life is running dry,
You come and pour yourself on me.
If a man could be two places at one time,
I’d be with you.
Tomorrow and today, beside you all the way.
If the world should stop revolving spinning slowly down to die,
I’d spend the end with you.
And when the world was through,
Then one by one the stars would all go out,
Then you and I would simply fly away
Now that is a better use of “if”. And I hate Bread.
Do I have to sign?
Nun: You don’t believe in God because of Alice in Wonderland?
Loki: No, “Through the Looking Glass”. That poem, “The Walrus and the Carpenter” that’s an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or… or with his tusk, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesh. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter’s son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do… what do they do? They… They dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don’t know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensure the destruction of one’s inner-being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions… by inhibiting our decisions, out of… out of fear of some… some intangible parent figure who… who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago and says… and says, “Do it – Do it and I’ll fuckin’ spank you.”
-Dogma
One of my favorite tactics is to sweetly ask them, which hell? The hell of Hades & Persephone, the ice hell run by Hela, or the hell guarded by the three headed hound Cerebus? At that point the fundies here become mouth breathers and you can quickly escape. ;)
I plead innocent! I actually did design some tri-fold flyers to hand out, about two years ago.
They’re probably a little wordy, and too light on graphics, but at least they exist.
Find them here: http://hankfox.com/?p=228
You folk would certainly get a kick out of the following, and indeed the whole website. As I said at alt.fan.rawilson:
” … this is one of those joints where I have to wonder if it’s a parody, and if so: Why go to all that trouble if you aren’t serious? … The weirdo sites can perhaps be considered “psycho-sociological Forteana.”
http://www.californiajudgment2008.citymax.com/page/page/4415990.htm
As for the issue of religion per se, let me again quote PZ:
[Freethinkers are] a motley mob of deists, agnostics, secular humanists, pantheists, atheists, and who knows what else, and organizing seems to be against our nature. We have to resist that; we have to be willing to work together while recognizing the diversity of perspectives under the umbrella of freethought, and treat that variety as a strength rather than a weakness.
–P.Z Myers
Since I’m basically a deist/Wilsonian guerrilla ontologist (and mostly liberal to boot), I am maybe not so far from the crowd here (which may give some of them the creeps!)
WHAT IF you received Christ today?
According to Miss Manners, dude should phone first.
#8
SEEM to exist. Just because you can’t see the Christ doesn’t mean he doesn’t not exist.
Viruses exist, and you can’t see them.
No wait
…hold on
hey maybe I’m onto something here.
“Glad-handed god-dabblers.”
Where do you come up with this stuff PZ? It’s brilliant!
Oops that should be “glad-handing.”
Got one like that at the Fourth fireworks here, as well.
What if I prefer a belief system that is internally consistent?
Honestly, this is what frightens me about this faith-based nonsense at the federal level: Christian institutions rarely do good works (like giving water to thirsty people) out of genuine compassion. It’s all tied directly to gaining converts. There are individuals (Perhaps six or seven, worldwide) who identify as members of those religions and who will do good deeds without any desire to make converts, but institutionally, it’s all a form of commerce. Jesus saves Christians and invests them at Prime plus 2. Any direct monetary link with these charities by the federal government crosses the line, period. Proseltyzing/advertising is integral to their existence; without it, they would not be.
I got one in St Louis at a fireworks display a few years ago.
They are probably attracted to fireworks displays because everybody is already standing around, looking up at the sky and going ‘WOOOOOoo, ooooooo, wooooo”
I keep some Minnesota Atheists brochures and Get Out of Hell Free cards near the door.
The idea of asking questions of a person like “What if?” reminds of the language used in those speed seduction courses… they are probably trying to use other psychological tricks as well.
What if I received Christ today?
Well, I would request an RMA for Christ being defective and not working as advertised.
Here’s a good atheist pamphlet [PDF link]:
http://whichreligion.com/why_believe_in_god.pdf
Hank Fox@17
Those are pretty good! I would hand them out.
I get a ton of these things from my family members. I also got one from a co-worker once that featured dinosaurs boarding the Ark along with all the other creatures. It was the first time I had heard of that brand o’ crazy and I was very surprised and amused!
I think I will have to start an exchange with people. It seems only fair. And I like to be fair.
I always swap my subscription from my local freethinkers society for the religious handouts from door knockers with the promise that they will read it with an open mind. It’s really not a fair swap, invariably the religious literature can be reduced to FUD and the local free thinkers mag although not quite as glossy is full of interesting articles.
I had a bit of a go at the seventh day Adventists a couple of months ago. I was really quite angry to think that some of the elderly people living alone in my street were being subjected to their fear-mongering literature about the end of the earth and destruction of society.
“I gave my love to Jesus, but now he never calls.”
-Betty Bowers
What if you just didn’t care so much that you are handed a pamphlet you didn’t have to take about a subject a billion pamphlets have been done before for hundreds of years?
Probably lower blood pressure and delay of that ulcer.
WHAT IF you received Christ today?
What if I don’t? Think of all the time and money that I could have for things I do out of enjoying to do them, not guilt. Besides, spending time with glassy eyed loons? Nah. That’s time better spent with people who are actually enjoyable to be around. Pass.
The Elder Gods would make a good subject for a “counter-tract”, “Surrender your will, your thoughts and your flesh to Chtulhu, and he will mercifully grant you oblivion.” Doesn’t sound much more wacked to me than the Irreverend Fred Phelps.
How about … “Just Think”
I live by Pascal’s wager. Barney Pascal, to be more specific – What if god exists but the requirement for eternal salvation is that you don’t believe in him.
I keep a couple of Church of the SubGenius and Flying Spaghetti Monster pamphlets handy for door knockers, or for when I go places, like the state fair, where I’m expecting to be “saved.” The trick is to get them to look.
Gerry
Most of we fiction authors use ‘WHAT IF..’ as an idea prompt. The bible should start with: WHAT IF, IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED..etc. That way it could be updated every once in a while, eh?
What if the only way to win the game of life is not to play?
What if the only way to demonstrate that you merit immortality is to recognize that life is pointless and suicide?
That reminds me that I once had the idea for “The Fully Qualified Bible”, with the word “maybe” inserted into every definite statement.
“Maybe in the beginning, maybe God created the heavens and the earth. And maybe the earth was without form and void, and maybe the spirit of God hovered over the face of the water. And maybe God said “Maybe let there be light?”, and maybe there was light. And maybe God saw that maybe the light was good, and maybe separated the light from the dark. And maybe God called the light “day” and the dark “night”. And maybe there was evening, and maybe there was morning, and maybe there was the first day.”
I suppose different qualifications, such as “perhaps”, and “it could be”, and so on, could maybe break up the monotony.
To #34 (Tim): There is a Lovecraftian parody of a Chick tract that’s much as you describe:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/index.php?p=135
>WHAT IF, IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED..etc. That way it
>could be updated every once in a while, eh?
You mean like science? That changes every few years. Once we discover how stupid we were for beleiving in something we find something even more stupid to believe in.
Don’t blame science for their stupidity. Science doesn’t tell you not to believe in God. They just take science and provert it into something it is not.
Science is a tool and they are trying to abuse the tool and make it into something it is not.
Science is a good thing. Their moronic ignorance is not.
Akari_House mentioned the FFRF tracts in #9, and I wanted to give props to my favorite of the bunch, the one titled “Dear Christian.” It appears to have been written expressly for the purpose of handing to proselytisers who have just handed you something. I like that; frankly, I’m a little hesitant to hand out atheism pamphlets to random passerbys — I’d rather not imitate behavior I don’t like and defend it with a tu quoque. Or a “they” quoque.
It gets right down to the nitty gritty:
“You and I breath the air of the same planet, and the truth should be the same for both of us. The basic question which should be asked about any religion is: is it TRUE?… I have examined your claims and I am not convinced that they are true. I may even wish them to be true (or may not) — but I am not so naive to think that something can be true or false just because I desire it. There must be some reason, beyond wishful thinking.”
I think that’s what I find so annoying about the “what if” sorts of questions: as others point out, anything can be “what if?” It’s an expression of wishful or speculative thinking which has nothing to say about whether something is true or not. That’s a rhetorical trick, a piece of showy sophistry designed to catch the unimaginative by appealing to their “imagination.”
After asking a lot of devastating questions, the “Dear Christian” pamphlet ends with “I don’t claim to have all the answers: but if you want me to hear your message, then I will ask you to listen to mine.”
Hey — fair’s fair.
You mean like science? That changes every few years. Once we discover how stupid we were for beleiving in something we find something even more stupid to believe in.
Congratulations! You’ve successfully proven that you don’t know what science is. It’s either that, or you don’t know what stupid means. Which is it?
Oh, look. Trolls. Including Kenny. Aw, Kenny, have you accepted Yamraj yet? Probably not.
Religion is committed to remaining exactly as stupid as it’s always been….
They’re stealing from TV advertising, where more than a few ad campaigns have a disembodied voice (or an embodied one) asking a series of questions. It is natural for us to respond in cooperatively to someone asking questions, but here it’s a setup to soften us up for the hard sell to come.
My response has been to fly into an immediate fury, demanding (in my mind’s voice) “Pay me some money and I might help you, otherwise shut up, shut up, shut up!” And then I hit the mute button. It’s silly, but it satisfies.
PZ, you might respond in kind, asking “What if God and the Holy Ghost are the original gay couple?”
Unlike religion which gets it completely wrong to start with. And confuses mythology with reality and never realizes the two are different. 4,000 years later the fundies still think the universe is 6,000 years old and Noah had a Big Boat.
WHAT IF you received Christ today?
No thanks, I’m not gay.
bornagain77 #12
Hmmm…..not convinced here.
Is Simon coming too?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/world/middleeast/06stone.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&th&emc=th
When will we start hearing from the *Liars for Simon*?
Don’t blame science for their stupidity. Science doesn’t tell you not to believe in God. They just take science and provert it into something it is not.
Science is a tool and they are trying to abuse the tool and make it into something it is not.
Science is a good thing. Their moronic ignorance is not.
Let me try and clean this up for you.
Not with my naked eye, but I can see them. Example:
http://www.scienceclarified.com/images/uesc_02_img0070.jpg
Now show me a Jesus-scope.
WHAT IF … God can smell your farts? Will your worst stinkers send you to Hell? Wait, what if God likes to smell farts? Then does gobbling garlic by the pound win you a place in Heaven?
I don’t know if anyone has already beat me to it, but how about http://www.ffrf.org and their lovely nontracts?
The problems of receiving Christ today…
“A customer enters a church.
Customer: ‘Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(The pastor does not respond.)
C: ‘Ello, Miss?
Owner: What do you mean “miss”?
C: I’m sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
O: We’re closin’ for lunch.
C: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this messiah what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very chapel.
O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Son of God…What’s,uh…What’s wrong with it?
C: I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it, my lad. ‘E’s dead, that’s what’s wrong with it!
O: No, no, ‘e’s uh,…he’s resting.
C: Look, matey, I know a dead messiah when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now.
O: No no he’s not dead, he’s, he’s restin’! Remarkable messiah, the Son of God, idn’it, ay? Beautiful loincloth!
C: The loincloth don’t enter into it. It’s stone dead.
O: Nononono, no, no! ‘E’s resting!
C: All right then, if he’s restin’, I’ll wake him up!
(shouting at the cage)
‘Ello, Mister Jesus of Nazareth! I’ve got lovely fresh unleavened bread for you if you show…(owner hits the cage)
O: There, he moved!
C: No, he didn’t, that was you hitting the cage!
O: I never!!
C: Yes, you did!
O: I never, never did anything…
C: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) ‘ELLO JESUS!!!!!
Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o’clock alarm call!
(Takes messiah out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)
C: Now that’s what I call a dead messiah.
O: No, no…..No, ‘e’s stunned!
C: STUNNED?!?
O: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin’ up! Son of Gods stun easily, major.
C: Um…now look…now look, mate, I’ve definitely ‘ad enough of this. That messiah is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not ‘alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged preach.
O: Well, he’s…he’s, ah…probably pining for the Sea of Galilee.
C: PININ’ for the SEA OF GALILEE?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got ‘im home?
O: The Son of God prefers kippin’ on it’s back! Remarkable messiah, id’nit, squire? Lovely loincloth!
C: Look, I took the liberty of examining that messiah when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its cross in the first place was that it had been NAILED there.
(pause)
O: Well, o’course it was nailed there! If I hadn’t nailed that messiah down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent ’em apart, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
C: “VOOM”?!? Mate, this messiah wouldn’t “voom” if you put four million volts through it! ‘E’s bleedin’ demised!
O: No no! ‘E’s pining!
C: ‘E’s not pinin’! ‘E’s passed on! This messiah is no more! He has ceased to be! ‘E’s expired and gone to meet ‘is maker!
‘E’s a stiff! Bereft of life, ‘e rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed ‘im to the cross ‘e’d be pushing up the daisies!
‘Is metabolic processes are now ‘istory! ‘E’s off the twig!
‘E’s kicked the bucket, ‘e’s shuffled off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-MESSIAH!!
(pause)
O: Well, I’d better replace it, then.
(he takes a quick peek behind the altar)
O: Sorry squire, I’ve had a look ’round the back of the church, and uh, we’re right out of messiahs.
C: I see. I see, I get the picture.
O: I got a Ken Ham.
(pause)
C: (sweet as sugar) Pray, does it talk?
O: Nnnnot really.
C: WELL IT’S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
O: Look, if you go to my brother’s church in Bolton, he’ll replace the messiah for you.
C: Bolton, eh? Very well.
The customer leaves.”
With apologies to Monty Python
“WHAT IF you received Christ today?”
What if I wasn’t home…would UPS leave one of those yellow cards telling me when they would try to deliver?
And I wonder what the postage due would be for delivering the Jebus?
I used to hand out Great Spiderism tracts to the occasional JW, roaming Mormon or Baptist. I miss the lovely green expressions on their faces.
We don’t get any of those here in WeHo; I guess they figure that we’re all damned, what with the rampant sodomy and all.
OT, but SF fans might note: Tom Disch killed himself on Friday. Making Light and Boing Boing have commentary.
I first met him in Boston about 35 years ago; he may have been seen by many as cold and mean, but he was always nice to me. He will be missed.
I was able to get an amusing card for my son’s 13th birthday. It showed a woman having just opened the door to two evangelists. One had a speech bubble: “Have you found Jesus?”. If you looked very carefully, you saw a pair of sandaled feet and the bottom of a white robe peeping out beneath a curtain.
What nonsense about receiving JC. There’s usually an empty chair somewhere at my house and I don’t think I need to keep the doors unlocked with all the supernatural powers this guy has.
I have yet to see a unique argument on those pamphlets in over a decade, Pascal’s Wager, haven’t we moved past the philosophy of the 1600s yet?
You know, pamphlets are so prevalent in New York City, in the subways, that I literally had to say “not on your life” to the guy in the Jews for Jesus t-shirt that tried to force one into my hand.
There is a particular hallway in the subway, between the A,C,E lines and the 1,2,3 lines in Times Square, that my wife has dubbed “The God Gauntlet.” The hallway is a full New York City Avenue long (about 750 yards for those of you that don’t live here). It is where, on most days you have to endure the “Confess or Perish” t-shirts, Pamphlets, and endless prostelytizing when you want to walk a hallway that, in the summer, is already 105 degrees *without* the fires of Hell being shouted in your face.
It makes you just want to say “really?.. no, really?.. your imaginary friend is worth heat stroke?”
Make that 750 FEET, not yards.
# 52
You have to use an old instrument called a Phenomenologica.
That’s because divine spirits are very hard to detect, however, once one becomes infected, the symptoms are remarkably obvious.
Now, where is our glossy pamphlet like this — only, like, not stupid — that we can give out to glad-handing god-dabblers?
Our glossy pamphlet should include this, which explains why atheists have better moral values than theists:
Darwin gave us a freedom most people are not willing to accept. We have to be ethical without fear of divine punishment. We have to live a life of virtue for its own sake because there is no Heaven awaiting us. We have to accept our mortality and justify the satisfaction of living without the existence of an afterlife. No religion has ever given humans such unrestricted freedom, such a responsibility, and such a task. Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection gives humans, with their evolved brains, a capacity for self-examination, for wonder, for deeper meaning, and for the nurturing values that sustain us in our relatively short stay in this unbroken journey of life that now extends over three billion years. And that is why Darwin deserves to be called a Great Emancipator.
— Elof Axel Carlson
http://tinyurl.com/5a48qd
You people are seriously decieved. Yes I know, you are smart and I am stupid… You like to remind everyone of that everyday when you slam on Christians. By your own definitions, I am a bigot, sexist, stupid/retarded and close minded, I also promote violence and have cause every war ever known to mankind, except for a few started by dictators who didn’t believe in God. And I say… So?
So what? Science is NOT a religion, it is a tool setup by MAN, not God. So it is corrupt, i.e. not perfect… And yet you put your complete trust in it. Why don’t you put your complete trust into a shed full of tools? – Because it is silly…
I have repeatedly suggested to athiests to read the Bible, I am always rebuked that they have infact read the Bible and have rejected such non-sense. And I now stand on the fact that you have not read the Bible (the way you talk speaks volumns on how you have not read the Bible) and have only listened to someone who has claimed to read the Bible and rejects it, just to recite their sound bites. In otherwords, I don’t believe you.
I know, I know.. you will refute me with such precision and intelligence that I must be stupid, right?
Maybe I am.. Maybe I am smart!
I have known a few people that said they were once athiests and became a born again believer in Jesus, and they are amazed at how blind they were….. And again you call them stupid… even thought they were one of you.
UhOh.. seems as though I have gone on way too long.
So I will leave with this…
You tell me to Think… I did.. And still do.. And yet you accuse me of being stupid. Perhaps I am not a college graduate, or a ‘critical thinker’ (which boils down to agreeing with whatever you say is right)
I will tell you to THINK with an OPEN mind… try it..
Also, because I became a Christian and don’t sit around my computer just looking for ways to bash on God, does that make me stupid?
Kenny, is that you?
Patricia, #67 wrote:
No Patricia, Starbuck’s not Kenny. He’s been here before, but i think it’s been a while.
Anyway, Starbuck (btw: Melville, X-Files or BSG original or BSG: reimagined?) – what exactly is it that makes you a believer? What turned you from your atheist ways?
#68 – sorry Carlie (and Patricia, if you’re here) – got the names mixed up there.
Hey Starbuck are you a Hindu? No? Maybe you’re close-minded.
By the way, neither PZ nor most of the frequent commentators here think Christians are necessarily stupid. Also, Starbuck, on average, atheists are more familiar with the Bible than are Christians. Also, Starbuck, no one here has expressed ‘complete trust’ in science. Not even clear what that could mean.
I’m a very open-minded person, have numerous Christians as friends and family members. You seem to have this idea that PZ and other similar people form this cult where everyone agrees on everything. You might try reading a little more; it would be an open-minded thing to do.
The majority of American and Canadian atheists were raised in religion. People like you seem to have this idea that were were shuffled off to this strange place where no one learns about the Bible or about other religions. These places don’t exist, Starbuck.
The chief complaint is not with individual Christians but with religion’s influence on political and social life. You are free to believe in Christ, just as people are free to believe in astrology, UFO abductions, homeopathy, dowsing, whatever. Just leave me out of it, OK?
Yeah, sure science is ‘not perfect’. Welcome to the real world.
Oh Starbuck (Jojo?), let me put this in a way that someone with your maturity level can understand. It isn’t a “Christians are stupid/crazy/clueless” thing, because a lot of them aren’t. It’s a “You’re not the boss of me!” thing. Stop trying to legislate how people live their lives and focus on real issues and start acting like adults and you can spend Sundays doing whatever the heck you want to.
Surely the whole Pascal’s Wager thing is getting a bit old by now. As is putting a few bible quotes in a pamphlet. It’s like they are trying to keep people from converting, maybe it’s so they can eventually be a minority and be persecuted instead of just feeling that way, I don’t know. But honestly, Xtians need to step up their game if they want to play with the big boys because right now their meek attempts to convert others either resting on a fear tactic or a promise of eternal riches is going to fool no-one who is content with their life.
And since when is preying on the weak a moral thing to do? When someone is vulnerable it seems the opposite of moral to even try and emotionally manipulate them (which is what pushing beliefs on someone is, make no mistake about it) into believing in what you do. The merit of a belief surely lies in it’s ability to propagate amongst sound minds who are content with their life and have an extensive knowledge of the world rather than just lingering in the gaps and hoping someone is gullible enough to buy it.
Rick’s question in bold is in my view the one that brings the whole thing down. But the next one ain’t bad either.
“I have known a few people that said they were once athiests and became a born again believer in Jesus”
Those people were lying to you. It’s impossible for a real atheist to become a believer in your mythical Jesus. An exception would be if the atheist had a lobotomy.
You Christians, instead of being born again, should try growing up.
Actually, “Starbuck” is also a real last name, whence Melville got it.
Kel, #72, wrote:
Depends on what you mean by ‘weak’ – though both apply.
When one of the key aspects of your religion is offering people hope – no matter how unfounded that might be – that there’s life after death, the weak (health-wise) are your best bet. Death isn’t as big a problem for the healthy.
If you mean weak as in weak (unstrengthened) minds, bereft of critical thinking skills, then you’re going to prey on them because they’re your best bet. Hence the attempts to crush real science in schools – it makes young minds far more resistant to indoctrination.
Don’t listen to Starbuck – they’re a Cylon!
BobC, #74:
If I’m ever snarkily asked what it would take to ‘turn’ me to Jebus I like to answer, ‘I dunno – a lobotomy?’
Owlmirror, #75:
Starbuck’s a real name? Excellent. I’m going to have to go look through the phonebook. Unfortunately, I usually stop once I see the listing for ‘Assman’, because that cracks me up.
Well, maybe.
If the atheist is also a skeptic; someone who thinks deeply and analytically about religion, then no, I don’t think they would become converts.
But if an atheist is merely indifferent, then they might be swayed by some powerful emotional experience that God is real, and come up with post-hoc rationalizations for God’s existence from the usual trove of apologetics.
You may not be stupid but simply ignorant. If you find you enjoy wallowing in ignorance then maybe we can call that stupid.
You may find it hard to believe that atheists have never heard the “good news” but we have, I assure you. I have heard of dozens of Christians who have become atheists but never the reverse. It was always for the reason that Christianity didn’t make sense when examined, sometimes not even examined closely. I was a fundie preacher. I think I qualify as having read the Bible even though you seem to think that it’s magical in its transforming power. No, it’s just a bunch of boring, incoherent, made up stories.
It’s not silly if you want to accomplish something that involves the use of tools. It’s much more efficient than wishing for things to make themselves. The same with religion. We find it more effective to actually do things than to pray and wait for Jebus to get off his ass and live our lives for us.
Finally, you may not sit at your computer and bash on god but neither do we. In our opinion there is no god on which to bash. Do you prefer we bash on you in place of this imaginary god? Would that satisfy your persecution complex?
@Wowbagger #76
I meant it in the desperate sense. Going after those who are desperate; victims of abuse, drug addicts, the poor, etc. People who are struggling in their life for whatever reason that could see the merit in accepting that belief. It reminds me of Fahrenheit 9/11 when the military recruiters targeted a poor area because it has a higher success rate than targeting a rich area.
Also that too. Though that’s more targeting the “ignorant” than the “weak”, which again seems morally reprehensible. But that’s a question of semantics. :P
My all-time favorite, handed out at our local pro-pot party by Jews for Jesus read )and I am paraphrasing as one of my biggest regrets in life is losing it):
Front side “Did Jesus get Stoned?”
Back side: “No Jesus got nailed so that us sinner wouldn’t have to get baked.
It was all psychedelic in color and probably the coolest thing I have seen.
I have known a few people that said they were once athiests and became a born again believer in Jesus, and they are amazed at how blind they were
Maybe they weren’t athiests then. Maybe they were simply athy or could have even been athier. The athiest people don’t tend to find the lord.
Ok, now I’m all for the FSM and all, but before I go handing out pamphlets that extoll the virtues of a religion whose heaven has a “stripper factory” I need some reason why that’s not some infrequently-been-laid mail scientist scam.
I’m glad that you agree that science is not a religion (most of the apologists that come through here assert that it is, which is pretty silly). And yes, science is not perfect.
But science is trustworthy because it is honest; it inherently acknowledges that it is not perfect, that the only way to even approach certainty is to continually test and experiment and ascertain that which is definitely wrong, which can thereby be eliminated.
It is actually religion that is corrupt.
Religion demands complete trust while giving nothing that can ever be tested, and which asserts absolute statements which are actually contradicted by everything that we know.
Religion states that there is a God who is real, yet invisible and intangible; who knows everything, yet never speaks of this knowledge to anyone; who is all-powerful, yet never acts in a way that can be clearly seen by all; who is benevolent, yet permits suffering, and, according to the scriptures, even causes suffering.
This is insane. And yet you repeat it and insist on its truth.
And how do you know that God exists and has these attributes? Not from God demonstrating these attributes, oh, no. From your family and teachers and friends and neighbors and your own imaginations: All imperfect people, with imperfect knowledge, pretending that it is even possible to know what perfection is, and what truth is, without any testable evidence.
Feh.
I accuse you of rejecting internal consistency in your own thinking. I accuse you of having a directly contradictory personal epistemology. I accuse you of putting nonsense as being intellectually more important than sense.
I accuse you of being under the delusion that there is an externally real, personal God.
There seems fundamentally wrong as calling someone who was born again an atheist. When the likes of Lee Strobel, CS Lewis or Francis Collins talk about themselves as being atheist in their youth, it just seems like it was more a rejection of God rather than a denial of belief, i.e. the belief was still there just the rationalisation wasn’t.
Starbuck #66 wrote:
Science is a tool which helps us avoid common errors and biases. The methods are not “corrupt” — rather, we are flawed. Science is what we use when we are concerned that we might be wrong. It is what we trust when we don’t trust ourselves.
Faith is a tool which helps us feel confidence in ourselves, so that we can feel sure of whatever it is we want to believe. Instead of avoiding personal bias, it enshrines it as sacred. The method can be relied on to reassure us that we CANNOT be wrong. Hold fast, don’t change, trust your conclusion no matter what. It is a good tool to use if you think you are perfect.
Here is a better “if” question, because it gets to the heart of how we know what we think we know: IF you are wrong, and God does not exist — is there any way your commitment to Faith in God would allow you to figure that out?
How infallible are you?
Starbuck,
You seem to have this weird thing going on where you feel like we all think you’re stupid and just like to bash away at your beliefs. Rick T has it right. I don’t know if you’re stupid, I’ve never met you. You are, however, ignorant, and misinformed. These are not terminal diseases. Ignorance can be cured.
Really, the anger that is evidenced at times on this site is not directed at you (usually), but at the wasteful, silly, dangerous, and incorrect beliefs that you espouse. Believe it or not, most of us are just pissed off that people like you get suckered into this scam and end up throwing your energy, money, and life away on a pack of lies. If you saw one of your kids (or similar) throwing away their life by shooting up heroin because it made them feel good, I bet you’d be plenty pissed too. You might even tell them they were an idiot. When they came back to you and stated that you just didn’t get it, how would you react? Do you understand?
And yes, I have read the whole Bible, cover to cover, and if you count selected readings probably two or three times for most all of it.
Starbuck,
In the interest of full disclosure I have to say that part of my family is blessed with Starbuck as a surname, so I may be biased against you for associating that name with silliness.
I was raised Christian, and I can assure you that I’ve read the Bible several times (Although, I admit I skimmed parts of Chronicles). I was 11 the first time, and I was immediately shocked at the Bibles brutality and internal inconsistency. Was I a particularly smart 11 year old? Absolutely not. I just couldn’t lie to myself. The problems are blatant and frequent. Anyone who says they believe in the literal truth of the Bible is either deluded, a liar, or hasn’t read it. There are no other options.
As for less deluded Christians who don’t believe in the infallibility of the Bible, I only have a problem when they act like the Bible has special insights on morality that can’t be found in other religions, atheism, or chimp culture.
If it makes you feel better, the Bible compares well to other religious books I’ve read. The Book of Mormon ranges from evil to silly and was clearly written by a second grader. The Satanic Bible is just juvenile. It’s the Holy book equivalent of a temper tantrum. At least parts of the Bible have an Aesop’s Fables type charm to them.
Yoj,
To put it simply, the problem PZ Myers (note spelling) and most (if not all) of us who post on this site have with religion is that the people who believe in it make choices based on those beliefs that affect other people who don’t share them.
This is frustrating. Perhaps (I can’t speak for everyone) they wish to do something about it – vent their frustrations, speak to likeminded people etc. – and perhaps work to organise people into using their democratic powers to remedy it.
If you don’t like it, why do you come here?
Godbot: bleeep blip skreeech hisssshhhhhhhhhh.
Must be a Poe. The poor grammar, spelling and incoherent thoughts, are too dead on.
Hehe. What? Religion is bad?! No. It can’t be.
this is a decent pamphlet to hand out
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.nap.edu%2Fhtml%2F11876%2FSECbrochure.pdf&ei=74xxSMvsKomOsQO75OnXAg&usg=AFQjCNHaA-ZwxyIR5_R20A7-hSoDuv9U6Q&sig2=bg8A2ECcw7ot04Yr_kRYwg
yoj and gerry, you both misspelled PZ’s name, and the misspelling was identical, which makes me think yoj and gerry are the same person.
Atheists would be happy to ignore Christians if they stopped attacking science education. It would also be nice if Christians weren’t constantly sticking their death cult into everyone else’s face.
How dare anyone use FREE SPEECH to criticize religion!
Why it’s unnamerrkun!
Geeze, shut your yap.
Yoj, #96, wrote:
Why not? It’s his blog; he can write what he wants. That’s what it’s for. You don’t have to agree with what he writes – many posters here don’t – but you’ve no right to come here and claim that he shouldn’t do it.
If you have counter-arguments, feel free to present them.
ok maybe yoj and gerry are the same person.
sockpuppetry will get you tossed from this blog, or did you fail to check out the dungeon.
And politicians don’t have anything to do with the people who vote them into power, and who demand that they do things a certain way?
Jesse Helms, to pick a random example, did not spring into the Senate from out of nowhere. He was voted in by a majority of people whose views were just as filled with hate as his, if not more so.
When Christianity is as influential as Zoroastrianism now is, we’ll complain about Christianity as much as we do now about Zoroastrianism.
#96: “how bad Christianity’s influence is on everything.”
Only about 14% of Americans accept evolution without invoking supernatural magic to guide it.
What’s the reason for this disgraceful ignorance which has made our country a laughing stock? Christians who brainwash their children with creation myths, and Christians who harass science teachers and attack science education.
Work on your reading skills.
No one has made blanket statements about all christians being the same or evil or dumb.
Religion is a stupid waste of time.
@yoj, #96
Nice use of hyperbole there…
If you actually read the posts, you’ll find that no-one says it’s everything, there are legitimate criticisms of religion that need to be put out there, just like any idea or institution. Nothing is perfect and so when something is obviously not, it shouldn’t be protected from criticism because it might offend someone.
How about you show where some unjustified criticism is made instead of just complaining that big bad PZ is picking on poor defenceless Christianity. Otherwise learn to distinguish between valid criticism and outright attacks.
Ichthyic wrote:
I don’t know – Zoroastrianism is far cooler-sounding a name than Christianity. If I had to choose between the two I know which one I’d be going with.
Again, show examples or stop saying it. Stop using loaded words without specific meaning and show some evidence that backs up PZ making any unjustified claims about religion or a particular belief.
excuse me for shamelessly plugging my own blog but, this is what I do with those bothersome glossy xtian pamphlets:
http://hereticsaltar.blogspot.com/2008/06/proper-use-of-xtian-propaganda.html
people act like its[sic] a big deal that one is athiest.[sic]
actually, if it could be shown that there is ONE athiest atheist, that would be a big deal, at least for a while.
yes, that’s about as seriously as anyone here should take your poots.
Ichthyic wrote:
nope, that was Owlmirror.
I just found the quote below on a Christian blog and I think it explains why scientific evidence is meaningless to creationists. This is what little Christian children are taught, which is child abuse.
“Everything must be tested against the Word of God. It must align with what God has already revealed. If it doesn’t, then you either do not have accurate data, or your interpretation of the data is wrong.”
how many of PZ’s posts are about Islam and Judaism
quite a few, actually, as you would know if you weren’t a moronic drive-by troll.
ALL religion is criticized as being equally fictional and delusional here, and examples from each representing the kinds of damage done, and authoritarian behavior created, are given on a regular basis.
use the search function, and plug in whichever fictional dogma label you so choose.
yoj/gerry,
You aren’t looking very hard. There are numerous posts where PZ highlights the equivalent irrationality of beliefs other than Christian.
This is what little Christian children are taught, which is child abuse.
Have you read this:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/316/5827/996
hence why religious authoritarianism is a problem for everyone, everywhere.
Pamphlet: “What if there were a Creator? ”
(followed by biblical verse on creation)
Me: What makes your particular creation myth more likely than any other such story ?
Shorter Pamphlet: God exists, wants you to follow our way of believing and will burn you alive for an indeterminate time if you don’t.
Me: Why should I believe in a deity at all, let alone as you do ? Why is your god-story more compelling than any other ?
Why are you so certain that your book is the right one ?
What makes your god-story true and all others false ?
Chances are you who put out that pamphlet cannot answer any of my questions without applying circular logic or an appeal to authority. If you could, you would have concrete proof of your god, outside of the book you point to.
And yet, there are many other religions, each with it’s own holy works, and each with it’s own sense of superiority over the others. If each text claims superiority, how can one pick a certain one and say “this is the true story” ?
You cannot.
No doubt others would do better at saying this.
I’ve read what he wrote. What was wrong with it? Where did he say anything that was wrong? Show exactly what was wrong with it, come on. Don’t just use the whole post, show the exact offending phrase and why it’s an unfair slur on Christianity.
DLC,
That’s the best argument I’m aware of as to why no religion is valid. They can’t all be right – but they can all be wrong.
lol nice.
@ Hank Fox,
Really nice pamphlets. You should try to get them out a little more, not necessarily hand them out but show them off. It’s really good reading.
@ yoj/gerry,
You got to stick around a little more. PZ doesn’t have time to touch on the myriad of religious beliefs but he definitely has slammed Judaism and Islam. He does bash on Christianity more because the US has a Christian majority, and if he lived in the Middle East I’m sure he’d bash the other religions because he would be more immersed in them.
In any case, if PZ doesn’t bash Islam enough for you watch Pat Condell.
http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell
“never once in my life have i seen some sort of oppression against science in favor of religion.”
Then you never heard of the Dover trial, and the creationism bill recently passed in Louisiana. Perhaps you are also not aware of Christian harassment of biology teachers, especially in the Bible belt.
never once in my life have i seen some sort of oppression against science in favor of religion.
have you ever heard the expression:
blind as a bat?
because you must be far blinder than that to have missed the MANY, MANY attempts at forcing evangelical xianity into secondary education over the last 30 years in the US alone, let alone stretching that to religion in general, and looking at the rest of the world. You say PZ doesn’t criticize other religions? Ever heard of Harun Yahya?
of course you haven’t.
Never heard of the Dover School District, either, I suppose.
why should anyone care what you have to say, given how obviously ignorant of the subject matter you speak of you are?
You’ve already proven your ignorance here.
get a clue, and THEN come back if you wish to “say some stuff here”.
fucking moron.
yoj/gerry:
Religious believers have pushed the government into passing legislation that undermines the teaching of science in schools in Louisiana.
What is that but the oppression against science in favour of religion?
Starbuck – which Bible? I have a King James, a Catholic, a Living Word and a New Revised Standard – plus probably a Gideon hanging around somewhere. And yes, I’ve read at least two all the way through, and all of them extensively.
Try it yourself. There’ve been more converts away from Christianity by reading the full Bible than any other single method that I’m aware of.
Oh, and I’ll rag on PZ about hating Christians when I see him standing on street corners and knocking on people’s doors telling them about how their whole life is useless and they’re doomed to misery unless they believe everything he believes.
… hey, note none of us are criticizing your religious beliefs (yet), we get to that AFTER we get done criticizing your gross ignorance.
“help help, science man is persecuting us”
Forget the Spanish Inquisition, bring on the Science Inquisition
“Do you accept that by using tests to gain empirical data that we can best determine reality?”
“No”
*crack*
“I repeat, do you accept that the scientific method is the best tool for determining our reality?”
“No, god did it all, I know he did”
*crack*
“Can a man rise from the dead and come back to life?”
“Yes”
*crack*
*crack*
*crack*
Nobody expects the science inquisition. ;)
Kel wrote:
You mean, nobody’s hypothesis successfully predicts the Science Inquisition…
you think people can’t think for themselves
not without any information, they can’t.
that YOU chose to continue to try and do so is becoming quite laughable.
These kids if religion is pushed on them you act like they are retards.
are you volunteering as a datapoint?
yoj/gerry,
Part of the problem is that we dislike the idea of people lying to those children, since we think lying to children is wrong – especially when those children grow up and make decisions based on the lies they’ve been told.
Things like feeling that they should hate themselves for being gay. Not using contraception because they’re told it’s wrong. Killing abortion doctors.
I, for one, have a problem with that.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/images/Lack_of_respect.jpg
It just so happens I’ve come across two similar tracts in the past two days. One, slightly different, was a full page ad in The USA Today declaring that the US was a Christian nation.
The other was far more in line with this. It was a pamphlet I found in the local post office, professing how one should be “eternally secure”by, of course, accepting Jesus.
Crazy stuff going around.
You continue to stay inside your bubble
wait, you know nothing about the issues you claim to be upset about, and accuse ME of living in a bubble?
ever heard the term: “projection”
before?
you really ARE volunteering to be a datapoint in the “religion causes brain damage” dataset.
Kel, that link goes to a “linked without permission” screen.
Are you going to show which part was so offensive Yoj, or simply try and keep the moral high ground by just making assertions of being offended without showing why?
offended without showing why
it doesn’t know why, only that it is.
When direct linking fails, the copy / paste method is almost guaranteed to work.
Callandor,
How about we get an advertisement with something along the lines of:
ROME was a Christian nation.
Look where it got them…
When direct linking fails, the copy / paste method is almost guaranteed to work.
not in this case.
It worked for me. Copied the link, pasted it into the location bar and hit enter. Not sure what else I can do beyond that.
There are more than a few carefully documented examples here:
Creation, Power and Violence
http://www.sunclipse.org/?p=626
I actually got one of those when I was buying beer. The guy at the register handed it to me and told me to “meet god today”
I got good and drunk that day, but I still don’t remember meeting god….hmmm, maybe I just forgot.
Wow, a science blog biased against creationism? Who would have thought? :P
Wow, a science blog biased against creationism? Who would have thought?
Yeah, what’s next? An African-American blog against the KKK? I mean, what is wrong with those people?
Although this would be a perfectly good point, it is severly flawed. Christians rarely look for fights, online or in real life.
you need to get out more, both online and in “real-life”.
You don’t see Christians posting Athiest-hating comments on boards like this.
yes, we do. Even though most ATHEIST-hating (goddamn i hate it when people misspell the word in their posts) bloggers rather tend to avoid atheist boards (and science boards) to begin with.
In fact, this whole board is completely biased against Creationists, especially Christians. This is hypocrisy at it’s finest.
a science blog, with political and social commentary from an avowed atheist, who a moron percieves as being biased?
hardly hypocrisy, moron.
And if you wanna look for people that are “constantly sticking their death cult into everyone else’s face.”, go on a pagan or Wiccan forum.
why wouldn’t you fucking EXPECT any forum you go to to stress the subject of the forum itself?
logic: you’re doing it wrong.
Posted by: AthiestDude
can’t even spell his handle right.
pathetic.
OK, yoj/gerry/atheistdude, you are beginning to piss me off. Quit with the sockpuppetry — you aren’t fooling anyone.
Stick with ONE alias, or I’ll start deleting your comments.
Asshole.
I wonder how many people here are actually not Athiest
s.there can be only one…
Good grief, there are a bunch of fight-picking Christians in this very thread.
If all Creationists acknowledged that their beliefs are completely religious, completely unscientific, and completely inappropriate for teaching in public schools as science, we’d have a lot less to fight over.
Given their attempts to have nonsense taught as science, why shouldn’t we biased against their spreading of religious propaganda?
there are a bunch of fight-picking
Christianssockpuppets in this very thread.Another pseudonym? Coward. Liar.
Goodbye.
Athiest(sic)/whatever the hell you call yourself,
Seriously, dude – lay off the furniture polish. You’re losing what little coherence you had to begin with.
“If you are burdened by the eternal destiny of your soul…”
Sorry, pamphleteer. Since I don’t have a soul, eternal or otherwise, I’m not concerned about its destiny.
“He that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”
That’s for sure. He (or she) that hath the Son of God is spending life in a mental fog and using up the precious, brief time we have on this planet mindlessly glorifying an idiotic, patently desperate, wish-fulfillment fantasy.
for the last time, you gabbling puppetmaster, it’s NOT spelled:
“athiest”
it’s spelled:
atheist
I know your sort get all confused when an extra letter is put in front of “theist”, but seriously, get a clue, eh?
Desperate Cranks for Jesus™
We’ll try any old shit!
You are certainly insane, dishonest, and stupid. All the signs of a fundie Death Cultist living in a reality free fog. The number of evolutionary biologists and science supporters who have been fired, persecuted, or beaten up is around 14. One was knifed to death by a creo.
The number of MDs assassinated by xian terrorists stands at 7 dead, 17 attempted murders, and 200 wounded, many seriously.
PZ Myers himself has received several death threats from a xian clown who is on the run with an arrest warrant out on him.
There is also a war on science in this country by fundie Death Cultists who are upset that their 2 pages of 4,000 year old mythology has nothing to do with the real world. They also seek to overthrow the US government, set up a theocracy, and head on back to the Dark Ages.
A recent poll shows that 150 million Americans are sick and tired of fundie Nihilism and Authoritarianism, half the population. Most of those are oddly enough other xians. The fundies earned their reputation as psychotic morons. As you sow, so shall you reap.
I am not the same person as those other two.
[ LIAR. I will have you know that I have much more information about your comments than is displayed here: you are yoj/gerry/athiestdude and Athiest_ ]V[.
You should be ashamed of yourself. You come into a forum enriched for atheists, and you are representing your religion — and are confirming that your faith is the refuge of contemptible liars. –pzm.]
Y my dlt th pst frm AthstDd, I splld my ml wrng n tht n. Srry.
Ichtyc, y r bvsly vry ngry prsn. Y crs lt (“gddmn”, “fckng”, tc.) nd stck t cllng nms.
Bsds frm cllng m ” mrn” mr thn nc, ll y dd ws tll m t gt t mr. Pls kp th trsh n yr mth nd nt n th brd.
Owlmrrr, pls gv m lnk t whr bnch f Chrstns r btng p n cpl f thsts. I wll hv t hv tlk wth thm.
Our recent lying/spamming/cowardly sockpuppet for Jesus has been extirminated. If he reappears, please don’t bother engaging him — I’ll be deleting his comments as they come up.
This is the kind of annoying idiot who makes me consider putting in some kind of identity verification scheme on the comments. I simply cannot abide Christian hypocrites.
I am not the same person as those other two. You may delete the post from AthiestDude, I spelled my email wrong on that one. Sorry.
will you apologize again for spelling it wrong yet again, “Athiest”?
some people are just fucking clueless.
Our recent lying/spamming/cowardly sockpuppet for Jesus has been extirminated. If he reappears, please don’t bother engaging him — I’ll be deleting his comments as they come up.
PZ Myrs, why d y bthr skng fr rctns whn ll y rlly wnt s ncrgmnt frm yr ATHEIST frnds? Y yrslf sd “I smply cnnt bd Chrstn hypcrts.” I wndr wh y lstn t n rl lf, crtnly nt ny Chrstns.
[Another persistent kook. This is the last one I’ll let stand, even in its disemvoweled form. It’s pretty simple, asshole: you aren’t being evicted for being a Christian, you’re being kicked out for being a spamming liar.]
Looks like yoj/gerry/anothersockpuppet got sent to limbo.
It’s too bad, we haven’t seen anyone that crazy since Michael Korn threatened to wipe out the entire UC biology department.
I’d be very surprised if he wasn’t in a secure lockup or closely supervised living situation somewhere. Not because he seemed particularly dangerous, he didn’t. But you need a certain amount of contact with reality to function in our society. For the yoj’s of the world, crossing the street can be a difficult, hazardous, and frequently life ending experience.
Looks like yoj/gerry/anothersockpuppet got sent to limbo.
not even worthy of the effort of preparing a cell in the dungeon.
For the yoj’s of the world, crossing the street can be a difficult, hazardous, and frequently life ending experience.
I’m tempted to add: not frequently enough, but that would be mean.
I find it funny that anybody that even attempts to input any religion into an argument is immediately deemed insane and unfit for society.
nope, just you.
We actually have a Molly-award-winning poster who is xian.
Which part of you aren’t being evicted for being a Christian, you’re being kicked out for being a spamming liar do you fail to grasp?
ack!
It’s an invasion of pod-people!
It’s an invasion of pod-people!
That’s an insult to pod people.
[Another persistent kook. This is the last one I’ll let stand, even in its disemvoweled form. It’s pretty simple, asshole: you aren’t being evicted for being a Christian, you’re being kicked out for being a spamming liar.]
Wowbagger, please explain how I am a spamming liar.
PZ’s description; I was quoting him. But you’re coming here using different aliases (commonly known as sockpuppetry) and then telling us you aren’t. So spamming liar is close enough.
On this blog PZ is like your god. He can see where you’re posting from – your IP address – no matter which name/email you type in.
And you’re still here despite your statement that you were leaving.
626 791 0922
God’s Spead[sic]
#92: I love the pamphlet. However, I wonder if they couldn’t have found a picture of a butterfly with more than 4 legs for the cover.
…damn, I’ve added to the spam by putting the number in my spam.
fry that spam, too.
You guys aren’t seeing the half of this spammer’s offensiveness. I’m seeing the fake email addresses he’s using.
I guess that particular Christian doesn’t like Jews or African Americans. In addition to liar, coward, and spammer, we can also call him a bigot.
while you’re at it, please can the post I made #162, since I accidentally included that spammer’s number, and #164 as well.
thanks.
According to Google, 626 is the area code for “San Gabriel Valley, California – East from Pasadena”.
Huh.
There’s even a complete reverse phone lookup, that points to one “Jas Fraser”.
PZ wrote:
Asshole.
I’m a bit confused. Assholes are very useful, and quite attractive on the right people. They also prevent too much shit from building up in people. Perhaps a better epithet is not even asshole.
On this blog PZ is like your god. He can see where you’re posting from – your IP address – no matter which name/email you type in.
…or like Santa Claus, and that spammer just got a lump of coal; and not in his stocking.
god/santa claus – pretty much the same thing, really – only the latter is meant to have a sense of humour…
Of course, the paranoid part of my brain makes me suspect that the phone number is a lie as well, and the whole point is to lead to the harassment of the individual on the other end of that phone number.
Hm.
How very… Christian of him
Wow. It’s really odd, going away for a bit and coming back to see all these replies to someone who’s been disemvowled and then booted into the dungeon.
Owlmirror : thanks for the comment. I’m doing the best I can with what I have, for this format.
Who left the dungeon door open?
Not that I disagree or anything, but I think you mean Wowbagger, there.
But then, Wowbagger thought that Ichthyic said something that I said.
I think that in order to complete the cycle, I have to think that you said something that Ichthyic said.
Or is it the other way around?
Or is it the other way around?
I think I have to think you said something that he said.
my brain hurts.
Re: Owlmirror #175
Gah. I’m completely confused. I usually put in the post number when I refer to a comment, but with PZ scooping up troll faeces I’ve no idea what’s what anymore.
#168
Not if the asshole is right in your face.
Hold on….
…..actually I can think of a postion where that’s not so bad
never mind
Assholes are very useful, and quite attractive on the right people.
and very useful when used to make artwork of the right people, too.
http://www.thehumorarchives.com/attachment/193/bush-asshole.jpg
I don’t think I’ve ever heard paganism/Wicca referred to as a “death cult” before. I’m sure plenty of pagans use death/rebirth circle-of-life imagery, but do more than a fringe employ the sort of fetishization of dead gods that Christianity boasts? Last I checked the books had names like The Silver Pentacle, not How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Orcus.
Eh, not so much. First, Rome wasn’t really a nation. Second, the Roman state lasted a really, really long time.
Hopefully this is the beginning of a trend. There is a nice big church around the corner from where I live. It has a nice steeple and stained glass windows. There is a large for sale sign in front of it. Says, “Commercial Real Estate” on the sign, how appropriate. Looks like the last owners went out of business despite their pamphleteering campaigns. Maybe jeebus wasn’t paying his rent.
Nemo@181. Well, the decline of the Roman Empire, and the fall of its western half, followed pretty closely on the spread and official adoption of Christianity. Gibbon considers this cause and effect, although I think demographic and technological developments, primarily outside the Empire, were more important.
Perhaps a good response to those insisting you have to invite Jesus into your home would be: Why? is he a vampire?
Clear evidence that Jesus is undead and xianity really is a death cult.
BobC @ 106
Would that be Serious Knutt by any chance?
Yo! Bornagain77! Comment #12 –
Dude- Please start posting more at Un^common Descent again – we miss your Special Blend of Cra^zy! You need to post there at least 10 times a day to keep them in line. Come on. Do It For Je^sus. There are WAY TOO many ID back-sliders over there now, that are getting too far away from Je^sus as Designer.
“Remember: No One Does Scientific Bib^le Quotes like BA77”
Oh – And don’t forget that List Of 10 Things that you are famous for. Haven’t seen it in a while, so I hope that your nan^ny filter still allows it.
Yours In Christ On A Crutch,
J-Dog
Hehe, disemvoweled. Is that some sort of script you run with peoples comments?
I’ve always found my state’s Adult Literacy Project pamphlets handy. I figure the missionaries need them (and I offer to read it to them) since they were unable to read the “No Soliciting” and “No Proselityzing” signs on my property. I’m really only trying to help….
Wowbagger @101,
Zoroastrianism is far cooler-sounding a name than Christianity
Zoroastrianism? Isn’t that the Jamaican religion teaching that Don Diego de la Vega is the incarnation of God and that sangria is a sacrament? I (or rather, yo y yo) can get down with that.
Pascal’s Wager is for intellectual sissies.
It used to be that when people asked me about my religion, and I didn’t want to talk about it, I’d tell them I was flirting with Zoroastrianism because I liked the idea of feeding vultures.
I’d tell them I was flirting with Zoroastrianism because I liked the idea of feeding vultures.
Remember to have your undertakers check your last hospital admission notes for use of NSAIDs and provide an alternative disposal if any were used. Some NSAIDs are dangerous to vultures.
@ #80
Rick said:
My mother was moderately religious, but one of her favorite sayings was, “Pray in one hand and spit in the other and see which gets full first.” She was a wise woman.
Why is it that the Jerks for Jesus keep going on about us being angry anyway? Who gave them that mantra to keep repeating, the living embodiment of peace and love that is Bill O’Reilly or Rush Limbaugh? Do either of them get ratings points when these people repeat their material over and over to people who wouldn’t normally listen to it because it makes absolutely no sense 99% of the time and it applies more to them than it does to us? Do I ask a lot of questions? ;^)
Oh, my husband claims to be a Taoist when asked about religion because it’s kind of atheistic.
Dangit, I hate being on the west coast sometime. Some premium tard-muffin shows up, and the entire shebang is deleted and disemvoweled before my first cup of coffee.
No fair.
I tell them my (horoscope, psychic, guru, Inner Light, channeled being, Inner Child, latest tarot reading, cat, and/or friends from Venus) told me not to talk to strangers about religion.
The Roman Empire fell when it arrogantly declared war on me. I used my vastly superior beaker production to crank out Mechanized Infantry. His puny Praetorian guards fell quickly under the relentless onslaught of my cities’ much higher production rate.
Owlmirror & Wowbagger — Whoops! I goofed.
Isn’t Zor(r)oastrianism where the adherents wear masks and carve giant letter Z’s on the chests of heretics? You know, as opposed to carving crosses on the arms of schoolchildren.
Oh, and in response to BobC @ 74, an atheist certainly can have a religious experience and be born again. Happened to me. Of course, it turned out to be a false positive and I got better, but it does give me a “get out of conversation free” card when I encounter pamphleteering nutjobs on the street…
Just the other day, I saw what is perhaps the best evidence I’ve found that pamphleteers are assholes. Y’know how local businesses often have collection jars with a picture of a young sick/injured kid asking for donations to help with medical bills and/or other expenses? Most of the time, they also include a statement along the lines of “Your prayers are appreciated”, or some such. Well, at my local gas station, I noticed that the current “help the kid” jar had a handful of tracts in there with all the money, and I recognized them as a pretty hellfire-and-brimstone-oriented variety.
How dickish is that? Not only does that pass the message that you can’t spare a quarter to help the kid, but even with the prayer request in big letters on the front of the jar, you assume they must be heathens destined to burn! That even beats leaving the tracts that look like money as a tip, in my book. On a funnier note, I did once watch a waitress chase a fake-tipper out the door and throw the crumpled tract in his face. Don’t toy with someone only making $2.13/hour (particularly when she’s already on parole).
“WHAT IF you received Christ today?”
Why would I? I never ordered one…
You can always recognize a false atheist….
they don’t know how to spell athEIst.
Dumbass.
“On a funnier note, I did once watch a waitress chase a fake-tipper out the door and throw the crumpled tract in his face.”
HA! If I had been there, I would have double-tipped her.
How about a Chick-style pamphlet detailing the horrors you face if you deny science?
e.g. death by acidosis because of reliance on faith healing
The list goes ever, ever on…
Ransom @ #201 said, Don’t toy with someone only making $2.13/hour
Jeebus, I thought you were joking about the $2.13 so I checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
Sheeeiit. You can have people working a 40 hour week that earn less money than people on the dole in Australia (btw our minimum working wage is closer to $13 per hour). Man that stinks. It borders on criminal that an employer can pay so little. It sucks that a waitress, for example, has to rely on the largess of customers for a decent wage. I have some sympathy for the pay-what-the-bill says rather than tipping for the sake of it thing because the waitress doesn’t get paid enough. Remember though that I come from a different culture that actually pays decent wages and doesn’t have a tradition of tipping.
Yeah, but the Eastern Empire lasted another thousand years.
Some wiseass responses I’ve used when asked about my religion:
“I’m a Zen Masochist; I believe in abusing myself and alienating others to achieve total self-misery.”
and
“I’m a Jedi, like my father before me.”
Martian Buddy, not all religions focus on self abuse. In fact, very few do.