Florida also has an “academic freedom” bill in the works, and they’re using Ben Stein’s sillly movie to promote it … and if you want to find legislators with cobwebs in their cranium, Florida is the place to go.
Neither Hays nor his co-sponsor, Brandon Republican Sen. Ronda Storms, could name any teachers in Florida who have been disciplined for being critical of evolution in the science classroom. Better known for his ”Win Ben Stein’s Money” game show, Stein made the documentary to document how evolution critics have supposedly run afoul of mainstream science in higher academics.
”I want a balanced policy. I want students taught how to think, not what to think,” Hays says. “There are problems with evolution. Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
No comment.
Tell the goober to look in the mirror.
And there were people dim enough to elect these malicious dimwits into office?
It makes me so embarrassed to live on the same continent sometimes.
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?’
A chimpanzee?
English translation: “See, we’re not really antiseimt- antisenmit- people-who-hate-Christ-killers! We like Ben Stein just fine!”
And why are there still monkeys if evolution is real, huh? Why hasn’t every living thing evolved into a human? Huh? Checkmate, evolutionists!
*sigh* n00bs.
Abbie beat me to it. Although not literally true, still amusing and relatively true. Of course, these morons probably don’t realize that a chimp isn’t a monkey…
‘Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?’
Ray Comfort?
What about Pygmys and Dwarfs?
You know, evidence-based science (of which he knows nothing), balanced against evidence-free religion. Now that’s balance.
Got to teach kids how to think, you know, ignorantly and without referring to legitimate evidence. Otherwise they might be able to think for themselves, instead of “thinking” like Hays does.
And yeah, have you ever seen a science journal, or a group of scientists, discussing whether or not half-monkey/half-humans exist? They don’t allow it, seriously, because it’s baseless and too stupid. Where’s the balance? What are the stupid people like Hays to do, if science gets beyond their decidedly limited possibilities?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
So the next time a hurricane hits Florida, can we point to it and say “this is God getting revenge on you for promoting ID in the classroom!!!” ?
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
Yes, they’re called ‘honkeys’. Many of them become politicians.
”I want a balanced policy. I want students taught how to think, not what to think,” Hays says. `
He can say that with a straight face. I’m impressed. I guess the Baby Jesus gives him to strength to lie like that.
It’s worse than that, we’re exporting this stupidity around the globe.
My uncle Mike and his built in fur coat…
It’s part of the Orwellian named “Academic Freedom” crap David Horowitz and the other wing-nuts are spewing. The sad part is that even though those dogs aren’t all fed by the same hand, they all pull the sled of intolerance together.
Racism is funny.
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?’
No, but I’ve seen a jackass masquerade as a human.
All this coverage is pretty much guaranteeing that the movie will get into lots of theaters.
All the willfully ignorant people who feel oppressed by the better educated segment of the population will watch it and have their stupid prejudices validated by Ben.
Ben Stein will have his little triumph.
Very sad.
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
I think I just read the words of a man who nearly has the mental processing power of a monkey. Does that count?
Um, he wants the students to be taught how to think? How does he feel about Florida legislators being taught how to think?
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?’
I’m 95% chimp and 4% human!!
The only problem I see is that it isn’t working fast enough to rid us of boobs like Hays.
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
No, but I’ve seen a total ass.
Ignorance like this reminds me of a friend who advocated a human competency exam that would include knowing how to spellcheck an email and being able to add a column of numbers in Excel. I would add the question, “Does evolutionary theory say that there were half monkey, half human creatures?”
Bart: How would I go about creating a half-man, half-monkey-type creature?
Ms.K: I’m sorry, that would be playing God.
Bart: God shmod! I want my monkey-man!
Is it wrong that almost everything reminds me of a Simpson’s episode?
Forget ‘votes for’, who the fuck is feeding, clothing, and wiping the ass of this brainless troglodyte? Hell, they pulled the plug on Terri Schiavo, and she demonstrated nine times the brain activity that this nuchal cord knucklehead exhibits.
What kind of quality of life can this brain abscess expect? For FSM’s sake, give this man a plastic drycleaning bag and let nature take its course.
Yowza! How do these people even get out of bed in the morning without killing themselves?
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?
Can you spell mirror?
It seems you and I are on the same track, Brownian.
BUT … I’ve seen PLENTY of Half-DWARF/Half-GIANT’s …
They’re called … normal people!
As for PYGMIES – what about their mental capacity ??
The objectional term was coined by those who were once thought (by actual racists) to be half-man, half-monkey. It was a reaching attempt at ironic (sardonic?) humor. Please take no offense.
@5 noobs are right. I cant believe this. I am so angry!!!
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
With due apologies to monkeys and humans everywhere, I believe about 50 million people voted for such a creature in 2000 and then about 60 million did it again in 2004.
“Ever seen a half-man and half-monkey?”
Yeah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey-man_of_New_DelhiFrom the story:
Right in line with everything else they do. Say one thing, mean another …
allonym,
This response comes to you from a very pale caucasian raised in the backwoods of MS.
Don’t worry, it was funny.
Back to lurking.
It might be worth it to create a humanzee if it would get the creos to admit to the reality of evolution. But no, they’d just call it a satanic abomination. Mad science just can’t win.
I’m with you, Brownian.
signed,
just another Honkey.
(#11 made me laugh so hard)
I think the movie “Idiocracy” may be prophetic.
The world seems to be getting stoopider and stoopider.
I’d say that they broke the Ultimate-Crazy-Florida-Female-Republican Mold after they made Katherine Harris.
….Of course, that didn’t keep them from trying to make another using the broken shards of the mold to make another. The result was Ronda Storms.
”I want a balanced policy. I want students taught how to think, not what to think,” Hays says.
Yes, they shouldn’t be taught any facts, only how to explore things for themselves. It builds character, for instance, to learn for yourself that sticking a fork in an electrical outlet is bad.
Stop the fork/outlet indoctrination!
Q) Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?
A) Mick Jagger.
You lose. Go home.
(Lying xians — what are the odds?)…
Ronda Storms is a notoriously horrible human being.
She was outraged when a library in the county had a display of books for gay pride week or month or whatever, and got the whole county board in an uproar to ban it.
This is hilarious, coming (as it so often does) from the anti-intellectual Abstinence-Only, Just-Say-No crowd.
(FWIW, I thought the “honky” joke was funny, too. FWIW, I’m about as white as a pure Slav can be. FWIW, I am open to being convinced that it wasn’t funny.)
“I’m a monkey”
–M. Jagger
(thanks, Janine!)
What about PYGMIES + DWARFS!!
Eejits.
“I want a balanced policy. I want students taught how to think, not what to think,” Hays says.
Be careful what you wish for, Mr. Hays. Remember when you folks called for Florida students to be taught that evolution is a “scientific theory”?
If schools actually managed to teach students how to think, religion would be dead within a generation.
Stupidity is not only a major U.S. export. The Vatican is in serious competition. It has invented some new deadly sins.
“After 1,500 years the Vatican has brought the seven deadly sins up to date by adding seven new ones for the age of globalisation. The list, published yesterday in L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, came as the Pope deplored the “decreasing sense of sin” in today’s “securalised world” and the falling numbers of Roman Catholics going to confession.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3517050.ece
“Those who trust in themselves and in their own merits are, as it were, blinded by their own ‘I’, and their hearts harden in sin. Those who recognise themselves as weak and sinful entrust themselves to God, and from Him obtain grace and forgiveness.”
The Pope also complained that an increasing number of people in the secularised West were “making do without God”.
– In case you didn’t know what loving gawd has in store for you.
“The original offences and their punishments
Pride Broken on the wheel
Envy Put in freezing water
Gluttony Forced to eat rats, toads, and snakes
Lust Smothered in fire and brimstone
Anger Dismembered alive
Greed Put in cauldrons of boiling oil
SlothThrown in snake pits ”
Read ’em and weep.
Does this mean they will be teaching evolution in sunday school as an “alternative explanation?” Along with Big Bang cosmology and radioisotope dating of the earth?
allonym, Kseniya, I’m so white I’m in danger of getting moonburn, and I thought the joke was funny, too.
“Have you ever seen half-monkey, half-human?”
… meditate on this one. Really, it’s very profound. In fact, it’s the deep, deep, rock bottom.
“Gomers” is such a funny word. I crack up every time PZ uses it.
These “Academic Freedom” bills in Florida are just another creationist Trojan Horse being drug up to the door of the legislature. I’ve forgetten where I first saw it but there’s yet another horse around flying a “Religious Freedom” flag.
http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_067125346.html
Unbelievable!
Back when I was in college, I worked nights in an institution for the mentally retarded. It was called the Austin State School and there was more than the retarded there. There were microcephalics, macrocephalics, there were things you don’t want to hear about. There was an absolutely amazing variety of human beings there. They were locked away from the public eye.
I believe that the ID people should give us some kind of explanation for the sort of human “mistake” that nature (or God) has committed. These “mistakes” are so troubling to the families that they have no choice but to send them to an institution for the rest of their lives, however long.
If this world is intelligently designed, then it is obviously designed to constantly experiment with new adaptations. I think the system can do this without conscious design and daily oversight, but I retain the right to view it with awe and reverence. It is a mystery to me, and it has no name.
I say this with all respect to the troubled and often traumatized souls of the clients and their families.
Depends what kind of snakes, I guess *yawn*
(was reminded of this just the other day when screening Raiders of the Lost Ark–my daughter’s first time ever, my first time since 1981…that snakepit was full of lizards, mostly…see here for the full-on herpnerd info.)
That’s just… weird. What are such people doing in politics? Shouldn’t they just clear off, and be replaced by people who… I don’t know… like, people who can read and write and stuff ? And who can take actual political responsibilities ?
Gomers vote for Gomers. Unfortunately, this country has a plethora of Gomers because of our fucked up educational system.
The tardacity is reaching swampy levels down there.
They’ll have to, Raven, once my RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND FREE SPEECH BILL OF RIGHTS becomes law.
You see, there are over 19 major religions with over a million adherents each, demonstrating that any one belief about the nature and existence of god(s) is a theory in crisis! We can no longer allow our children to be indoctrinated and told what to believe when there are serious flaws in any belief system*. We must teach the controversy! If these people are so confident that they’re right, then why are they so afraid of criticism?
*Okay, some of these are just looney-tunes. I mean, have you ever seen a half-man, half-god? What about a virgin giving birth? Puh-leeeze.
I suggest that our taxonomy allow for a new species of human to be known as
Homo rectocraniatus.
Homo rectocraniatus.
I have pictures of that species shot on Safari to Orange County a few years back:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjneal/SPHINCRONYS2.jpg
Escaped, unfortunately.
Impossible to take down with a head shot.
Gomers vote for Gomers. Unfortunately, this country has a plethora of Gomers because of our fucked up educational system.
catch 22.
flywheelgrinding #54:
That’s very interesting. I’ve done some volunteer work at a similar place outside of Boston. It was a sobering experience, to say the least. I really identify with where you’re coming from, and with your compassion for the clients and their families. I saw afflictions I had not previously imagined and still recall with some distress, and cannot reconcile the undeniable existence of these people, these human beings, these so-called children of God, with the supposed existence of a benevolent and potent deity.
Let Ray Comfort play with his banana until the stars wink out. His nonsensical chittering explains nothing. He and his kind, they are blinder than blind.
“Ronda Storms is a notoriously horrible human being.
She was outraged when a library in the county had a display of books for gay pride week or month or whatever, and got the whole county board in an uproar to ban it.”
Craig– hear, hear! That was actually my sister who made the display and got caught up in the whirlwind when Storms started her crusade. But everything else she has ever done in politics has been consistent with that same spirit of small-minded vitriol.
“There are problems with evolution. Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
This guy wins the internet. It’s going on Facebook.
itchtyic, here are some photos of a not rare species.
http://www.streetneeds.com/uploads/twinturbonet/ASSHOLES.jpg
ya know, I’ve heard the argument that when viewing people from this angle, we all are essentially the same.
However, looking at that gallery, I actually see quite a few differences.
So, what’s going to happen when this passes and the first science teacher (read: gym teacher who drew the short straw) decides to use his newfound “academic freedom” to declare that the idea that white people are superior in intelligence to black people? Hey, he believes it, so it must be on par with all other ideas. They’re both just theories, right? And that goes for the history teacher who decides to tell his class that the Holocaust never happened. Lots of people believe that too, so therefore it must have some merit, right?
If the bill singles out evolutionary theory alone, it will be get overturned with the sticker decision as precendent (why aren’t physics textbooks getting stickers too?) And it if it doesn’t, expect the scenario above.
And I really should proofread before I post. :^p
LOL! I need to adopt that to describe my own condition. :-D
LOL! I need to adopt that to describe my own condition. :-D
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
Yes, they’re called ‘honkeys’. Many of them become politicians.
Racism is funny.
Oh, come on now. I’m a honkey. I live in the South, so I guess you can call me ‘cracker’ too if you like (many natives down here take that as a compliment, actually, due to its historical roots). I don’t think it’s offensive, and none of the white guys I know, even the good ol’ boys, think either term is insulting. We’re good with it.
Oh, come on now. I’m a honkey. I live in the South, so I guess you can call me ‘cracker’ too if you like
yeah, but are you a redneck?
http://www.fortogden.com/foredneck.html
Which is one of the reasons I’m not into nude sunbathing, ;-)
It doesn’t matter if you, as an African American, are comfortable referring to black people as “niggers” when you’re with your friends. That’s perfectly okay. But it’s still a bad idea to go online and anonymously post that “niggers are half monkey, half human.” It’s in poor taste and is likely to offend somebody even if it doesn’t offend you or your friends.
By the way, the suggestion that white people should be treated differently than people with other skin colors is the essence of racism.
Sorry for the off-topic rant.
Yes, had allonym done that, it would indeed have been a very bad idea.
But considering just exactly who propagated the Big Lie you refer to in quotations, the role-reversal deployed in allonym’s wordplay was quite witty.
“What about Pygmys and Dwarfs?”
No thanks. I just had a midget.
Morons who use the terms monkey and ape interchangeably, or refer to chimps as monkeys, need to be told that they might as well call a horse a rhinoceros. Until they can get the terminology right, they have no standing to discuss biology.
Reminds me of a story about a customer service call that’s too long for this post, but the punch line is the guy was fired for the very accurate observation that the customer was just too stupid to own a computer.
Reminds me of a story about a customer service call that’s too long for this post,
Hai-yah!
http://www.snopes.com/humor/business/wordperfect.asp
oh god i just loled all over the floor. better find some paper towels…
Reminds me of a story about a customer service call that’s too long for this post,
Having done phone customer service work, I’m actually surprised at the number of people who are actually able to operate a phone. Talking to my fellow Americans convinced me that, for many, dialing the phone was their most advanced skill.
for future reference, I think I’m going to start using phrases from this page:
Amazing Verbal Kung Fu
http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/kungfu.html
whenever I utilize google-fu from now on.
er, I suppose I should have prefaced that itself with a
thundering rabbit dance
Slightly off topic, the gomer in chief sings! Perhaps this should get it’s own thread.
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?
Try looking in the mirror, Hays…
“Ah, but your thundering rabbit dance is no match for my invisible phoenix antagonism.”
(I think I could get to like that web page)
It’s amazing that Disney World and Epcot are able to survive amongst all this filth in Florida.
thalarctos:
The idea that white people somehow “propagate” anything is entirely racist.
yeah, whatever, Jon.
Slightly off topic, the gomer in chief sings! Perhaps this should get it’s own thread.
that guy is one, sick, stupid fuck.
Why doesn’t it surprise me they laugh while Rome burns?
Seeing the antics of creationists depresses me. I just finished reading Robert Heinlien’s newest novel (I know what you’re thinking, R.A.H. died in ’88, how can he have a new novel? It is a book he started back in ’55, but never finished. Spider Robinson had the honor to finish it for the Master.)
If you get a chance, pick it up, it’s called “Variable Star”. In the book Robinson and Heinlien manage to formulate a plausible series of events, starting with 9-11 (and the US’ ham-fisted response) and the Prophet, Scudder. Seeing the creationists, I can see where Spider has puthis finger on the pulse – – and it’s terrifying. (It’s also a very good book in it’s own right, IMHO).
It’s amazing that Disney World and Epcot are able to survive amongst all this filth in Florida.”
I don’t see that as at all surprising. Disney is about replacing actual culture with bland megacorporate mass consumerism. That’s what I hated about Florida and why I recently moved out.
Unlike other places dripping with art, architecture, culture, and history, Florida is pretty much just conservatism in every sense of the word. Bible-thumpers driving their SUVs around to the various strip malls. Nothing but Walmarts and Targets and Home Depots and TGI Ruby Applebacks as far as the eye can see.
Everything is bland corporate homogenization. Restaurants, “neighborhood bars,” everything is mass produced chains.
Outback Steakhouse, Bonefish Grill, and that same corporatons’s several other chains, Hooters, all are from there. The area has embraced all the worst of American culture and rejected all of the best.
It all goes hand in hand.
(Uh, speaking of elections and elected officials and fighting stupidity…)
PZ, were you planning to highlight the drive to get support for the Markey letter (which is asking for a 6.5% increase in the NIH budget for the next fiscal year)? It was drafted by my congressperson, and I wrote him an effusive email thanking him for thinking about science, and giving a short overview of my research, which an NIH increase would fund.
The Society for Neuroscience has a nice contact-your-elected-officials interface here. I think it would be neat if everybody who’s a scientist wrote their rep with a short snippet about his or her current work. We should show our representatives that we’re not Big Science — we’re lots of little stories about different pieces of science making up a grand, world-changing enterprise.
The area has embraced all the worst of American culture and rejected all of the best.
a rather disturbing trend that doesn’t just limit itself to FLA, unfortunately.
Are we looking at a glimpse of the future?
It’s like watching Romero’s “Dawn of the Dead” with zombies milling about in the shopping malls.
just substitute WalMart for the shopping malls, I suppose.
Well that’s just one of the silliest things I’ve read here. Is it that you don’t believe in the concept of “white people”, which nonexistence would indicate that they could not propagate anything? Or is it that despite their existence, it is somehow racist to attribute any specific idea to white people? Is the term “white people” by itself racist in your view? I don’t understand where you’re coming from, Jon Merz.
Ichthyic,
Thanks for the visual. A field guide of sorts. :)
Dumb Question:
The use of “Gomer”. It is indeed a cool word, and I see that the word itself has garnered a few comments. My question is, is PZed using “Gomer” in the sense of “Gomer Pyle”, or is this “Gomer” in the sense of the medical slang (Get Out of My Emergency Room), for someone who is beyond help?
Both work, and it is purely a question out of curiosity. PZed?
The area has embraced all the worst of American culture and rejected all of the best.
Consumer capitalism: commodify it; kill it; sell it.
“Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?”
Wait, if that’s not true, then do I have to stop flinging poop at people? Because that’s my reason for living. Well, that and peeing on things.
Consumer capitalism: commodify it; kill it; sell it.
I think that needs some updating:
commodify it, speculate on it, disintegrate it, commodify the remains, speculate on the remains, lie about the remains, commodify the lies, speculate on the lies…
somehow “sell” implies an actual product that is becoming all too rare these days.
I learned a lot investing in the dot-com economy.
commodify it, speculate on it, disintegrate it, commodify the remains, speculate on the remains, lie about the remains, commodify the lies, speculate on the lies…
somehow “sell” implies an actual product that is becoming all too rare these days.
At the end of the day, I want my fucking beer. They’d better be selling me a tasty, alcoholic beverage that I can smell, taste, feel, get drunk on, and piss out, and not the virtual experience of one.
and for a biologist, you’re almost sounding Baudrillardian……*ducks and runs*
*ducks and runs*
*tosses empty ale bottle after*
bloody sociologists.
:p
“has anyone seen my pet half-monkey? I left him here with this orange”
Seriously, this line probably got a huge laugh from the audience – the Florida state legislature. This is the kind of crap that these nimwits tell each other to feel superior.
I hate the xian mindset – they are all half-wits like this.
bloody sociologists.
*HAPPY DANCE!*
They’d better be selling me a tasty, alcoholic beverage that I can smell, taste, feel, get drunk on, and piss out, and not the virtual experience of one.
Isn’t american beer mostly “virtual” at this point anyway?
I mean, seriously, can you call “Coors” beer anymore?
American beer is at the “disintegrated” stage, soon to be followed by a new round of speculation on foreign made and microbrewed beers.
see?
I mean, seriously, can you call “Coors” beer anymore?
When could you? Maybe you’re older than me.
I haven’t had a Coors product in years. There was the long-standing gay boycott. But there was also the fact they make shit beer.
has anyone seen my pet half-monkey?
mighty monkey pounce!
http://myspace.vlee.ch/watch/2025628989/sean-cullen-woman-and-a-chimp/
“They came with axes and torches…”
American beer is at the “disintegrated” stage, soon to be followed by a new round of speculation on foreign made and microbrewed beers
Symbolic Exchange and Death combined with The Mirror of Production (w/a little America). Baudrillard. See?
*ducks*
“Gomer” was also the name of the adulterous wife of the prophet Hosea, and (I think not coincidentally) the name of a small dog owned by a former neighbor of mine, who (the dog, not the neighbor) so loved bearded men that she piddled on the floor every time one entered the house. I had a beard and stayed away as best I could.
When I saw the title of this post, my first thought was of her.
Wow! Now all the evos hate Florida, Floridians, their legislature and to think, only eight years ago Florida looked like your darling Al Goofball Gorehead’s great hope and most,if not all, of of your goons were ecstatic, no doubt.
I emailed a large percentage of their elected reps noting that the DI list and the Med Dr. list had seven prominent scientists, educators, and MDs as signators from Florida.
I received back very nice emails from several of them noting that fact as quite illuminating.
Perhaps the movie will have as one result a large impact on quelling the anarchist message of “evolution is perfect and indispensible to the progress of the human race” BS crowd. If evolution as a practice paradigm were to disappear from the earth tomorrow no one would realize it for 50 years…and it could start with P.Z. Myers moving to Siberia and being an ASSISTANT professor in another diploma mill frozen in ice with 6 students in his classes.
You quislings for Darwin are in for some rough sailing shortly and deservedly so…corrupting science is a nono.
nly eight years ago Florida looked like your darling Al Goofball Gorehead’s great hope and most,if not all, of of your goons were ecstatic, no doubt.
Kathleen Harris.
try again?
moron.
no, it’s beyond moron…
you’re just bugfuck nuts, Keith.
seek treatment at your earliest opportunity.
do the world a favor, seriously.
though i doubt mental health care is covered by your insurance.
Keith,
You’ve shown us plenty of crazy-ass stupid, so we’re used to that. Do try to up the entertainment value, though. Otherwise it just becomes white noise.
That was downright boring. And that’s disappointing, because we know you’re capable of making us laugh at you. Try harder next time.
Think of the children!
Keith, the “goons” in Fla. 8 years ago were the Republican operatives who shut down the recount in Dade County.
We might similarly disagree about the identity of the “quislings” who are “corrupting science.”
But we digress.
Cluelessness plus Projection plus Psychotic Denial?
Dat’s “Keaton Speakin'”!
Keith… Take off the tin-foil hat and place it on the table. Then put your hands, with fingers interlocked, behind your head. Now close your eyes and fall face-forward on to the floor. Your intake interview will commence shortly.
Thank you.
The problem with people like Keith Eaton and the members of the Florida state legislature, is not so much that they evolved from apes, but that they are at risk of being conquered by them.
oh, wait, was Keith trying to demonstrate for us “Who votes for these gomers”?
good demonstration, Keith.
scary, but accurate.
seriously, though, seek treatment.
but that they are at risk of being conquered by them.
Ben Stein and his “movie” were mentioned briefly in this week’s Time magazine, in an article about the latest trend of movies of wanting to make a point about something. It was just a picture its caption and a mention, but no details at all. I guess they weren’t allowed any details either without signing a NDA.
Would Disneyland under the sand really be such a bad thing?
“Disneyland exists to prove America is real.” -Baudrillard.
Soon the fish will be virtual…..well, it is….
Soon the fish will be virtual
tell me about it.
*sigh*
*sigh*
Have a beer. A nice import.
Have a beer. A nice import.
excellent suggestion.
l8r
Keith Eaton, silly silly boy, you’ve forgotten to take your antipsychotics, again. How often must we keep reminding you to take them?
Hey! Keithie-Boy! Sing it!
And that, in a nutshell, is why I will fight until my last breath against people who try to force ideas that are unsupported by a single piece of peer-reviewed research and based on supernatural causation into our schools by government fiat in the guise of “academic freedom.”
I know this is a minority view, but I don’t see why teaching kids how to question evidence and analyze scientific theories, as Martinez put it, or any of the other “meta” stuff in science–how scientists work, how they worked in centuries past, what a theory (or even a “mere theory”) means to scientists, the difference between what scientists do and “faith,” how models become commonly accepted, etc.–could be anything but a loser issue for the Creationist crowd. To me, it sounds like them shooting themselves in the foot.
Obviously, if a science teacher is out to push his religious beliefs over the facts, the kids in his class are screwed for the school year, no matter what the laws say. It’s hard to learn science from someone who despises it. (1)
But if the Florida science teachers who care about their subject (which means, inter alia, they believe in evolution and don’t make any bones about it) really decide to “teach the controversy”–well, no one specified which controversy. Why should it be the Dis Institute’s version (the pretense that there’s major disagreement among scientists about evolution) instead of almost all scientists’ version (that evolution is pretty obvious, but it’s hard to communicate to folks who’ve been emotionally worked over beforehand by people with a vested interest in a lie)? (“Now class, who here thinks teachers should teach stuff that isn’t true?”)
(1) Which is a major reason that people with science degrees who advocate “creation science” or whatever are rightfully considered to be @ssholes by most scientists; it’s a public statement that you not only don’t understand science, you don’t give a crap about it–while you’re still asserting an unearned claim to the respect and intellectual props forged by the scientists, living and dead, who came to their disciplines out of love.
Obviously, if a science teacher is out to push his religious beliefs over the facts, the kids in his class are screwed for the school year, no matter what the laws say.
you danced around it, but kinda missed the point.
right now it’s ILLEGAL to teach creationism in science class.
if it gets passed off instead as “teaching the controversy”, like this bill is pushing for, then there is no remedy left to try to curtail nonsense being taught to kids, which only serves to perpetuate the nonsense itself.
IOW, they want exclusions to be able to teach their own backwards, ignorant, idiocy as science without fear of penalty.
teachers can ALREADY teach science history and show how badly creationism fails from both an explanatory and predictive standpoint. This law is not meant to help them at all.
However, the bottom line is that it will likely be struck down as unconstitutional if they manage to somehow get it passed in the state legislature.
which of course will just cost the state more money that could have been spent on real education.
Seven?!!!
Gosh, 7! prominent! scientists! educators! and MDs!
What a mighty hoard!!
I had no idea there were so many scientists, educators and MDs on board!!!
Why, I need more than one hand to count them!!
It’s like one of those little segments on Sesame Street. “This ridiculous argument is brought to you by the Number 7.”
* * *
Seriously, Keith, how many MDs do you think they have in Florida?
Seven MDs or scientists is insignificant. There are about 1/2 million scientists in biology related fields in the USA.
You could find more MDs who had rides in flying saucers. Or anal probes. Or rides in flying saucers, anal probes, and a hot date with bigfoot.
I know you could find a lot more in drug/alcohol rehab or mental hospitals.
I know you could find a lot more in drug/alcohol rehab or mental hospitals.
he never did say WHERE he found them…
do they allow inmates of mental institutions internet access?
Icky writes:
Yes, Darwinian public education has failed to seduce the masses away from Christ! Despite subjecting children for seven hours a day, 180 days a year for 13 years of Darwinian propaganda, and then eniticing them with resume enhancement to go into debt for the next twenty years to continue the charade at university, people still love Jesus and praise his name. Our Savior’s name is powerful! Look at how the Soviet Union spent seventy years slaughtering Christians in the name of Darwin, yet look at all the churches in modern Russia! Stalin’s Gulags failed to stamp out the flame of the gospel, and the bed-wetting ninnies of the National Education Association will fail too no matter how many taxpayer dollars they get to play with!
don’t pay any attention to the greaser, he’s nothing but a troll (the very definition of one, in fact).
he doesn’t believe any of this shit, he just wants to see if he can get a rise.
He’s a frequent commenter over on PT.
no reason to engage, seriously.
Oh, yeah, the Greaser. What an idiot.
Do you have any evidence for this statement?
Unable to refute my arguments, icky changes the subject by claiming I don’t believe them myself. (Is there a Latin name for this logical fallacy?)
Ichthyic, have you ever taken a drive through the Cleveland National Forest? It’s an unusual sort of forest for a New Englander like me. There’s a pretty spectacular spot at the eastern end, where a little roadhouse is perched on the edge of the ridge overlooking an entire valley. Right at the foot of the ridge is a small town clustered around a lake. The whole vista just about appears out of nowhere – it’s almost like the car turns into a small plane launched into the air 1,000 feet above the valley floor, except without the falling and crashing that would inevitably follow if that actually… uhh… well, you know what I mean. :-)
well, you know what I mean. :-)
yes, yes I do.
Pole Greaser, at no time did anyone ever receive “seven hours a day, 180 days a year for 13 years of Darwinian propaganda”. Only when one touches upon biology.
For some reason you state that “the Soviet Union spent seventy years slaughtering Christians in the name of Darwin”. You got two things wrong here. The USSR murdered millions, not in the name of Darwin but to consolidate and maintain it’s political power. Also, the USSR under Stalin did not accept Darwin’s theory of evolution but Lamarck’s theory. Lamarck stated that traits attained by an organism could be passed on to the offsprings. That fit much better in communist dogma.
Now I will explain to you why most of the people here do not bother to refute the shit you pull out of your ass, it is because it is nonsense. There is nothing that you claim that has any relation to reality. It is kind of like you were to state that the sky is not blue, it is a steel dome. One does not argue with that for it is pointless. Now take your greased pole and fuck yourself.
“Despite subjecting children for seven hours a day, 180 days a year for 13 years of Darwinian propaganda.”
Come, come now PG, thats not true. The Evil Darwist Union insists we have at least an hour off for lunch.
“Despite subjecting children for seven hours a day, 180 days a year for 13 years of Darwinian propaganda.”
Come, come now PG, thats not true. The Evil Darwinist Union insists we have at least an hour off for lunch.
The term Gomer (like Quisling – a noun derived from the name), meaning one of rather low intelligence, does not come from Gomer Pyle. Rather, it comes from a sad set of circumstances related to a family of Gomers that lived (as far as I know still lives) on South Mountain in the Anapolis Valley of Nova Scotia.
One elder Gomer (himself allegedly the product of incest) was arrested, charged and convicted with the sexual abuse of his daughters (one of whom was said to be the child of the paternal grandmother). Said abuse resulted in at least one conception and birth. Upon release from prison, the man returned to South Mountain only to be subsequently rearrested and charged with impregnating another of his offspring.
Thus the term Gomer became associated with one of low intelligence, likely inbred, with a penchant for continuing the family tradition.
How ironic, then, to find the tag being applied to those who would argue against evolution.
DNA, it would seem, comes encoded with a sense of humour.
Can we finally talk about letting the south secede, like they wanted to, more than a century ago? I mean, is it really worth it to hold on to these people? Hell, half that shithole state will be under water in twenty years as it is.
Just sayin.
After four years of living in Brandon, trust me, it’s worth considering.
-now that I’m far enough north of the mason-dixon line I can talk like this
Janine, ID said:
Sorry to nitpick an otherwise great post but I think you’ve over-simplified the second point you were making here (the first is absolutely bang on).
Lysenko’s problem was with the genetic theory of inheritance and he thus had a serious downer on the modern mechanisms of genetics (he believed in the Lamarkian theory inheritance of acquired characteristics) rather than with evolution itself and sent geneticists to the gulags.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Darwin himself admitted that he wasn’t sure of the exact mechanism of inheritance (in fact his beliefs regarding this matter were based vaguely on Lamarkism and have subsequently been shown to be flat wrong):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heredity#Charles_Darwin:_Theory_of_evolution
But Evolution by Natural Selection as originally posited does not depend on the exact nature of the method of inheritance, merely that inheritance of parental characteristics occurs in some form, hence the Soviet Union didn’t have so much of a problem with evolution per se.
The Modern Evolutionary Synthesis was a different matter however, as it is based on a fusion of Darwin’s work with that of Mendelian geneticists, whom the Soviets had persecuted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-darwinism#Modern_evolutionary_synthesis
Because of it’s insistence on the inheritance of innate genetic factors as opposed to acquired characteristics this was fiercely opposed by the USSR.
‘Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?’
HOMO MOTHERF**KING ERECTUS!
Sorry, but there’s only so many times you can hear such an obvious question before you snap.
Oh great, Rhonda Storms. A few years ago she caused a big fracas over a simple GLBT display in one of the Hillsborough County libraries, one that had been set up by a LIS student and which wasn’t even near the front of the building. She effectively got pride events basically banned from the county through her stupidity so it doesn’t surprise me she’s involved in this idiodicy.
I liked this news blurb from the Tallahassee Democrat about all of this nonsense:
I’m guessing they thought they should put “documentary” in there, but I love how they use it as a modifier for “screed.” The ungrammatical “Darwinism orthodoxy” is there too (but hey, that’s the spiel), then they’re back to calling Ben’s nonsense “creationism”.
I only wish Wikipedia were so objective.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Lilly de Lure, thank you for the kind words. As you can see, there is a reason why I normally do not comment about the science here, the real scientists here can see right through it.
Now why doesn’t that seem to stop the creotards and IDiots from posting here?
Hi, Janine–
Having recently used those exact words “see right through” in this forum, to a Creationist poseur claiming to be a scientist, I’m concerned that perhaps I have inadvertently sent you the wrong message.
Of course, if it’s just a coincidence that we used similar wording, and you’re not reacting to what I told “Dr. Steve”, then it’s not an issue. But if, in any way, I made you hesitant to comment, then I apologize, and I would like to elaborate on what I meant, so that no further misunderstanding stands between you (or anyone truly interested in science), and commenting.
Any scientist and/or teacher worth her salt will not come down like a ton of bricks on a student finding her way. Even if the student gets some details wrong, the proper action is to correct it kindly and patiently, as Lilly did above. Anyone who gloats that they can “see through” a sincere student is an insecure jerk and asshole who deserves a Gerry-strength smackdown.
On the other hand, “Dr. Steve” is clearly not interested in addressing his ignorance by learning anything new from us. He only wants to waste our time, flout his ignorance, and get attention, even if only the bad kind. It’s a hoary Creationist trope, although for some reason, everyone who deploys it seems to think he’s the first one ever to do so. For us to waste our time on someone who’s put himself beyond redemption by refusing to learn anything would only positively reinforce his bad behavior–so, he got a well-deserved smackdown, and he got put on notice that we see through his con.
But that’s a way different situation from someone who is in the process of actually learning, and who needs guidance with some aspect or details of that learning. If anyone here smacks you down for that, there are lots of other people here, scientists and non-scientists alike, who will call them out for being unreasonable.
So, if my words in a different situation intimidated you from commenting, I am truly sorry, and want to reassure you that you won’t get a smackdown for being a learner.
And, if it’s just a coincidence that you used the same words I did in an earlier post, and it actually has nothing to do with that, then, well, never mind :).
Here’s more on cretins lobbing for Florida’s “academic freedom” bullshit:
This is all probably more to publicize the film, however, than to try to pass this particular turd onto Florida’s citizens.
Of course it’s not clear that all scientific approaches really ought to be protected in classrooms (that’s why curricula exist, moron, to fit teaching to perceived needs), and even more certainly, creationism is the classic example of what a scientific theory is not.
Anyone teaming up with Luskin should be presumed to be a liar unless and until shown otherwise, certainly.
Ben the liar, Ben the cheat, Ben the suckiest teacher of all. I’d cut your class if I ever had one from you, Stein.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
The religion of evolutionism dominates the entire cirriculum. How do you explain the bans on prayer and the Bible while subjecting the students to a continuous barrage of abortionist sodomite propaganda!
No, the communists were opposed to genetics not evolutionism. They opposed genetics because it contradicts evolutionism. Genetics discovered by the Christian Mendel explains how the information in the genome always stays the same, while evolutionism says it is always increasing. Much evolutionist jabberwocky and pretzel logic revolves around squaring that circle! Read post 142 if you disagree!
All observations must be stated in the language of some theory, no matter how vague. There is no such thing as a brute fact to be observed by everyone independent of presuppositions, even though the evolutionists’ Satanic myth of neutrality says otherwise. Look at you own example. You claim the color of the sky refutes the fact that it is a steel dome. The depends upon the presupposition that a steel dome can never appear be blue. How do you know this?
Here’s what I added at Talkorigins with respect to the article I posted @ #149:
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
thalarctos, it is not that I am intimidated or afraid that someone might give me a smackdown. Most of the regulars here seem to like me. It is just that I will not comment on something that I do not understand very well. And I know how tedious it is to keep answering unfounded charges. And the times that people did correct what I got wrong, they were kind about it. I have no problem with that. I make no claim of absolute knowledge.
I do appreciate that you took the time to comment about it though. Thank you.
Oh, Pole Greaser answered me. But I cannot take him seriously. Anyone who links to a geocentric site is a fool. I stand by my words. Why debate a n idiot? That is the reason why the other do not debunk your claims. Now once more, fuck yourself with your greased pole.
I’ve finally found the perfect drag name: Ronda Storms!
Here are the lies a paid fuckwit prepared to tell FL’s legislators:
Gee, paid liar, did Darwin say that magic has any facts or arguments?
Get some facts for once, and come up with anything but your dishonest “arguments” (saying that they have arguments at all depends on whether you’re using the broader or narrower definition of “argument”), and then we’ll talk.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Dear Monolithic turd heads,
While seven people signed the allied statements doubting neodarwinian theory’s tenets, that is indicative of a much larger population many of whom have to protect themsleves from the heil darwin brownshirts because they don’t have tenure, wish to publish, apply for research grants from time to time.
Arguments from popularity are your bag not mine.
It ususally requires a rational independent group of thinkers, radicals, intellectual giants, and leaders to effect a new paradigm in science and they are always fought tooth and nail by the sychophantic, 3rd rate wannabe crowd mired in their brainwashed dogma.
Let’s guess to which group you numbnuts belong.
But I cannot take him seriously.
nor should you.
Anyone who links to a geocentric site is a fool.
LOL
or a troll, trying to get a rise out of you, just like I mentioned after his first post.
He’s just a well known troll. not worth bothering with, seriously.
Dear Monolithic turd heads,
Now Keith, OTOH, is a true “believer”, even if he comes across like a 5 year old who hasn’t had his apple juice today.
It’s too bad he isn’t at least slightly saner. It’s not much fun poking a stick at a poo-flinging monkey.
well, not much fun after the first time, anyway.
:p
Hey, Keith, I just wrote this for another Galileo wannabe just like yourself over on Panda’s Thumb.
although directed to someone who named himself “william wallace” (LOL, I’m sure Galileo wouldn’t have been “original” enough for him), rest assured you are covered under: “other idiots like him”.
I’m afraid that’s an Oh-Fer for the cdesign proponentsists.
I thought new paradigms were effected by the formulation of testable hypotheses coupled with evidence in support of those hypotheses. Or something. Where are the hypotheses, the testable predictions, the data from the experiments testing those predictions? Where, Keaton? What do you have besides rhetoric and invective?
Hello?
that is indicative of a much larger population many of whom have to protect themsleves from the heil darwin brownshirts because they don’t have tenure, wish to publish, apply for research grants from time to time.
which, of course, is an “argument from popularity”. followed immediately by:
<>Arguments from popularity are your bag not mine.
well, if we take that NO argument of any kind is “your bag”, including the above argument from popularity, then yes, it certainly is not “your bag”.
still waiting to see what “your bag” is, beyond the random ejaculations of a complete nutter.
Our local NPR station in Jacksonville, Fl reported today’s media circus in Tallahassee. Glen D’s posts sum things up pretty well. I was struck by the lack of any rebuttal to the Cdesign viewpoint in the coverage. Not a single counterpoint to Ben Stein’s/ DI’s position was presented.
FWIW – My County’s school board (St. Johns) opposed the new Florida Science standards for all of the reasons presented in this new piece of legislation. The irony is that our new High School is showcasing the “Academy of Biotechnology and Medical Research” major. How sad indeed.
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half human?
Your mother?
Sure, it’s a bit juvenile until you actually think about the things he’s said. Then it makes perfect sense and becomes a descriptive rather than an insult.