The appropriate testimonial would be to disband the thugs at TSA.
While we’re at it, impeaching Bush/Cheney and repealing their damage to our civil liberties would also be a good start.
I’m not impressed with moments of silence or candlelight vigils or noble rhetoric about this event. If you want to do something to remember that tragedy, the best thing to do is to simply stop living your life in fear.
A noble sentiment, in my opinion.
We’ve also created another monster bureaucracy, sucking up taxpayer dollars for no good purpose.
PZ, I couldn’t possibly agree with you more. By giving in to fear, the terrorists have beaten us. Let’s abandon the candles and start living our lives.
“simply stop living your life in fear.”
Probably not easy when a bunch of armed guards yells “freeze” at you, and makes you stand 30 minutes.
I don’t know what they were doing, but if I wanted to condition people to the idea of a police state, this would be an excellent first move.
We are no safer today from so called terror than we were 6 years ago. We’re fighting an illegal war to make a lot of people rich, and we’re losing young men and women to do so.
To paraphrase FDR, we have nothing to fear except those who peddle fear.
You should be putting that on posters, tee shirts, bumper stickers (heck, maybe even tattoos!) PZ. Hey, how about junking the inane WWJD bracelets for cool SSLYLIF wrist wear?
Well said, PZ.
Only now we don’t live in fear of terrorists, but our own government. A law-bending/ignoring administration coupled with lethargic legislative branch has created a new fear whereby our rights are taken away and no one that makes under $100,000 from special interests cares.
I think the phrase you are looking for is:
“Refuse to be terrorized” – Bruce Schneier
or my favorite from Balloon Juice:
“It is absurd. You are safe. I am safe. This nation is safe. Quit being such a damned pussy. All of you.”
Thanks for that post, PZ. Since day one, the Department Of Your Papers Please has been all about the window dressing. Like this entire administration, it’s all appearances. If they put the same level of effort into actual doing the work, well they’d never do that.
It doesn’t help that :
1. the one who claims to have been the perpetrator has still not been brought to justice / killed
2. a large % of the american population does not believe, rightfully or not, that the official story is true, and that no investigation is taking place
3. a very large % of the world poulation believes that the victims of 9/11 have been used to start a war with a country which had nothing to do with 9/11, thereby causing many thousands of unnecessary and unjust additional deaths
4. that GW/DC are still in charge
the list goes on…
As long as it continues that way, 9/11 will remain a day of mourning. I can’t even imagine how it must feel like, today, to have lost a loved one that day.
Honestly, you shouldn’t blame the agents. Here’s a report from a woman who actually decided to walk a mile in their shoes:
http://tinyurl.com/yvhulg
Thank you PZ. Very well said.
Thank you PZ. Very well said.
True that.
My coworker today called me this morning because we were heading to the base (we’re Navy contractors) and there was nobody in the office when we got there this morning.
She thought we may have been kidnapped.
We have an office of about 8 people, and only about a third are in the office at any given moment. Her fears were completely absurd.
On a flight from Rome last year we were delayed coming into Heathrow because of a big storm. The captain informed us of the reason and you didn’t need a degree in meteorology to look out a window or feel the turbulence.
Anyhow, once you’re delayed coming into Heathrow it only gets worse so, when we finally landed we were kept on the tarmac waiting for a gate. After about 10 minutes an American couple started protesting that something must be going on – “Could someone call someone at home to see what was really going on?!” yes, they really did say this. They got worse and were egged on by a claustrophobic Italian (sat in the window seat next to my heavily pregnant wife for goodness sake) who mentioned terrorists.
When the plane finally did start making it’s way to the gate the husband was heard to say that this would never have happened back home – no, I guess if you’re flying into Slackjaw Tennessee or somewhere a small delay wouldn’t matter that much but this is the world’s busiest airport.
Seriously, the terrorists have defeated these people and their ilk – the only people the American couple and our Italian friend had to fear were their fellow passengers who were getting more and more p*ssed at their whining. The land of the free and the home of the brave…
Got National hysteria?
I’m a fed, and bus commute with a good number of others. Several of them worry about seeing people with turbans, taking photos. In Washington DC. It drives me nuts. I tell them there IS no ‘war on terrrr’, and if real evil-doers showed up, they would DISGUISE themselves. Still, the sheep are already cowed (heh heh). Scared of anything. Oooh, scary color codes (what do you really do if it changes?)
9/11 never even happened. It was all cooked up in order to introduce the terrible, repressive fasci-police state that we are all burdened under. As far as memorials, I agree with you PZ. It turns my stomach when I hear the words, “Pearl Harbor.” I just want to scream, “stop living in fear!”
I am annoyed that my government considers me a suspect with no probable cause. This is what the Soviets did – all citizens were suspected of something, so they had to surveille them all the time. That was once considered antithetical to a democratic society. Now we cooperate with the government, especially in traveling by air. The TSA, as far as I am concerned, is the vanguard of secret police in this country. I live in Montana, which has decisively (both Republican and Democrat) decided not to enact Real ID. A small victory for a small (in population) state, but maybe we can make it a trend.
*applause*That is exactly what I think.I live in Israel and was in the beginning of high school when the suicide bombings really began.I never changed my habits reasoning that the terrorists wanted my fear- so that’s the one things those f*ckers won’t get.
“so that’s the one things those f*ckers won’t get.”
You misunderstand…there are no terrorists, and never were. There is only Bush and Cheney and any other political conservative evil-doers that we might include. The suicide bombs in Israel that you refer to were probably exploding androids manufactured by Haliburton, sent into the world to conquer and defeat all who oppose the Bush Family and Amerika.
Paul: 9/11 never even happened.
Ah, I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Paul. Spoken with any New Yorkers in the past six years?
I too agree with you, though, PZ.
Dr. Myers,
I must say, well spoken. My uncle Kevin is a New York Firefighter and he has been to so many funerals and such, he said he is numb. Anyways, I don’t understand the whole idea of a memorial. Penn & Teller said it best in their “design” for a memorial. You can watch the clip here folks. This is the ultimate memorial and honor of American courage.
In the days immediately after the terrorist attacks, I tried to do my little bit to put the fear in it’s proper place. I told people that there were bigger threats to their life then the random Saudi terrorist. I explaned that I was in more danger by local homophobes for being queer than I was by terrorists for being american. I got a lot of blank and unbelieving stares.
“I’m a fed, and bus commute with a good number of others. Several of them worry about seeing people with turbans, taking photos.”
I am not normally given to advocating violence but sometimes there are people who just need a good slap. These are such people. Anyone who does not know that it is Sikhs who wear the turbans and not the Muslims is pretty stupid. Also they clearly are not aware that bombing attempts have been made not only by arab looking terrorists, but also ones who are white and black. In short these people are complete fuckwits.
Just like the fuckwits who got a plane in Spain and refused to allow it take off for the flight back to the UK becuase there were two “arab-looking” people talking in arabic. The airline to its shame had the two removed, rather than the bigots who were stopping the plane taking off.
It’s true that I haven’t been to New York since 9/11 2001 but I’m pretty sure those events were real. But hey, I think humans have been to the Moon, decoded the human genome etc. I’m obviously a sucker.
The idiots who perpetrated 9/11 haven’t got the ability, the know-how, the followers etc. to go mano-a-moron with the United States or her allies and they’re upset about that: it’s as if their crackpot ideas are totally sterile or something. I guess it makes them feel a bit insignificant and impotent? So they condition some angry young men to throw their lives away taking thousands with them, this makes them feel very big and important. No: it makes you a pathetic waste of the Universe’s time and effort.
The only thing that could compound this reprehensible waste of life, hopes and potential would be a government that sees the wrong threat and wants to be “seen to do something(tm)”. Not only is the actual threat not addressed but it’s multiplied by gifting these fools propaganda about imperialistic western forces bombing wedding parties etc. Way to go George.
The US government didn’t fake 9/11 to impose a police state, that’s just stupid – governments aren’t that smart, they can smell opportunity though. Don’t forget who the real enemy is and don’t forget that your nation allows you to elect new governments; it doesn’t come around soon enough sometimes but in the end you have the power to put things right. Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried – Sir Winston Churchill.
PZ Myers:
Yes. That, and run to the nearest parcel-shipping office to put your birthday presents to me in overnight express mail.
Oh, wait, I forgot — only politicians are allowed to use national tragedy for personal gain. Dang.
Fear? The Bush Administration has been urging us to live in a state of fear every since that fateful day. God Bless America. Let’s not forget what started this: 9/11 (and the apparently interminable aftermath that’s playing out at home and abroad) provides one of the biggest, fattest, ugliest data points on the religion-meets-politics graph since the Holocaust.
Be that as it may, this anniversary continues to be an intensely personal experience for many of us. I was seventeen when the planes hit the towers, and my world was shaken to its foundations. Coming as I do from the greater Boston area, where both WTC jets originated, I soon learned what six degrees of separation really meant: Nearly everyone I talked to had been affect, or knew someone who had been affected, by the events of the day. I was no more than two or three “degrees” away from dozens of victims. My aunt’s friend’s daughter had been a flight attendent on the first jet. She was 24 years old. One of my dad’s college friends was working in the towers that day, as was the older cousin of one of my friends; apparently he had a phone conversation with another family member after the planes hit, and he’d been told to sit tight until FDNY got the flames under control. Neither were ever heard from again. And on, and on, and on.
And yet the Limbaughs and Coulters and Cheneys of the world have had the gall to claim that liberals from the northeast don’t understand the implications of the event.
Has our government made any effort to promote peace since that day? Not that I am aware of.
In a word? Shameful.
Also, you should know that with their new satellites, a simple layer of tinfoil under your hat is no longer enough to block their mind-control rays. The only sure way to disable the implant is to get a large, cast-iron skillet and smack yourself sharply on the forehead with it.
Come on. Isn’t the state of the world bad enough without making stuff up?
Isn’t that one of the things that helped get us into the current conditions we are in now?
“Come on. Isn’t the state of the world bad enough without making stuff up?”
I am amazed at the lack of sarcasm-detection on this thread.
Who was it that said, in the days following 9/11/2001, “The best thing you can do to make yourself safer from terrorists is to stop smoking and fasten your seat belt”? That even after 9/11, the biggest threats to your safety is not terrorism, worry about the real threats.
“Has our government made any effort to promote peace since that day?”
Ummmm….I am puzzled. You describe the dead and then denounce our government hasn’t been promoting peace? Is that the rule for Modern Nation 101?
“1.a )If attacked, via militarily or through terrorist activities, the first thing a modern, civilized nation should do is promote peace. Be assured that this will cause the attacker to contemplate their own actions and they will apologize in time, having come to their senses through your serene good will.”
Damn straight.
I flew two weeks after 9/11, and still remember the pilot thanking us for not being afraid to fly, and the applause from the passengers.
TSA is a joke.
Use of emoticons might have helped…
And speaking of fear…
Enjoy your October, everyone…
You can tell a man that there’s a bogeyman in the closet and he will believe it – even if there isn’t a closet in the entire damn building.
So no, I don’t leave in fear. Living in fear is what they wanted in the first place and all too many of us have played into this.
I’ve often wondered if the world might not be a better place if the terrorists would try hiding bombs in the following objects:
1) Stinky food.
2) Babies.
3) Children who kick the backs of the airplane seats.
4) Adults who kick the backs of the airplane seats.
5) Cell phones, laptops, hand held gaming systems.
6) Nora Roberts novels.
7) Creationists who like to strike up conversations about their creationism.
8) Republicans who like to strike up conversations about their
Republicanismfascism.9) People with any kind of respiratory infection.
Without any of those allowed on planes, flying would be a dream.
Now, I know everyone in the DoJ is busy losing computers and deleting e-mail, and the law enforcement agencies are busy keeping us safe from Cat Stevens but, on the off chance they come across this post, I feel it is in my interest to inform them that I do not in fact want terrorists to hide bombs in any of the above, and that this post is an attempt at humor. Please do not kidnap me, fly me to Egypt, and beat me with a cable. Thank you.
Power on, brother.
Only if they gave us some actual leg room. I’m 6’5″, and flying is pure hell.
Also, if we can’t get rid of the TSA bullying, I’d at least like it if we could make them bully us in such a way that I can understand what they’re saying. I’m really sick of having them mutter and mumble at me, leaving me to guess what they want me to do. I don’t like getting frisked because someone couldn’t enunciate just a little bit.
You too? I’m 6’5″. Here’s something that drives me up the wall:
Me: I don’t like flying. I don’t have any leg room, and last time the person in front of me tried not only to put their seat back but, when they couldn’t because my knees were in the way, they pushed their foot against the chair in front of them to get some more leverage.
Person I’m Talking To: That’s funny, so-and-so is 6’5″, and he doesn’t have any problems flying.
It happens when I talk about small cars, too. One day, I’ll finally snap and fly into a murderous rage.
Paul:
I’m with you there, mister. The Halliburton exploding androids were a nice touch, and a dead giveaway.
However:
Hmmm… more sarcasm? :-)
No, I did not imply that things are that simple. Nor do I advocate for a monolithic response of any kind.I do believe it was appropriate to go after al Qaeda and its Taliban allies in Afghanistan. I also believe that it would be in the best interest of the USA, and indeed of the world, to simultaneously pursue an agenda by which al Qaeda and any comparable organizations could be neutralized by non-militaristic means.
I have no hope that a policy of eradication is the answer, and would not support it even if I did. Diplomacy, for all its shortcomings, may one day provide a resolution. John Kerry took a lot of heat for advocating a more “nuanced” approach, but I agreed with him, and still do. Our duplicitous, flag-waving executive branch, along with a large proportion of our population, has been unwilling even to discuss the possibility that there might be some value in approaching our ideological foes with a message other than “One day we will succeed in killing you all!”
Dustin, Jeff: FWIW my dad is 6’5″ and he has stories exactly like yours. He, too, has complained about the inconsiderate, knee-breaking antics of the person seated in front of him.
Sure, there’s something to be scared of, but it’s not necessarily the terrorists. Here (and part two here)is a video of a MINISTER getting tackled to the floor and arrested. His crime? Waiting in line to get into the visitor’s section of the Petraeus hearings while wearing an “I (heart) Iraqis” button.
Carlie, the minster was obviously like really really a bad guy cuz yanno the Iraqis like sooooo hate our freedom.
For my part, I’m much more afraid of Bush’s nuclear blundering than I am of any terrorist. His administration has done so much damage to nuclear non-proliferation that we’re rapidly approaching as bad of a situation as we’ve ever been in. North Korea’s disarmament had, probably, more to do with economics than political maneuvering, particularly since we’ve been giving the rewards we normally reserve for disarming to India without requiring that they disarm. Hamfisting and hoping everything comes up roses isn’t really the best way of dealing with nuclear weapons.
Oh, and Pakistan has nukes. That’s fantastic. Now, all we need is a coup by some religious nutters. Then we’ll have religious nutters with nukes. But that doesn’t bother President “What, me worry?”, since he’s far too busy taking vacations and drumming up fear over Iran and blundering right into Putin’s hands, rather than looking for a way of preventing an Iranian problem which doesn’t actually exist yet, or solving a very dangerous situation in Pakistan.
I might start believing this admin. actually wants to do something about “terrorism” when they start bombing Saudis!
One of my coworkers’ son and daughter-in-law flew into California from Japan this week; His son is vicking-stock-american, and his daughter-in-law is Japanese. They were stopped at the airport, and the daughter-in-law separated from her husband. She was put on a plane and shipped back to Japan after having been interviewed for hours, without her husband, with no translator other than someone on the end of a phone. She had a passport, but no visa because they just got married recently, and had planned to go around the world for a year. Japan is a visa-waived country, anyway iirc.
They said that they ‘thought she intended to stay in the country illegally.’
Okay, sing it with me:
“Godless America…”
I’m still working on the rest of the lyrics.
Seriously, listening to NPR this morning, I understand why they gather to read off the names of the victims. Catharsis can be good. But when they start singing “God Bless America”, it really takes away from the meaning.
I had to experience this effect first-hand to appreciate it, but when my mother-in-law was dying in June, and people told us they were praying for us, every time I just wanted to ask them why. Same situation here.
And then, we get to listen to Dubya link 9/11 to Iraq. Again. For the 2200nd consecutive day.
I have my own way of remembering 9/11. Sometimes in my freshman physics classes, I pose this problem. The Official NORAD Timeline of 9/18/2001 gives the following information on AA Flight 77:
FAA notifies NEADS: 9:24
Scramble order (at Langley AFB): 9:24
F-16s airborne: 9:30
AA77 hits Pentagon (F-16s 105 miles away): 9:37
Other information: Langley AFB is 130 miles from the Pentagon. Andrews AFB is 10-15 miles from the Pentagon. F-16 fighter jets can fly up to 1500 mph.
1. How fast did the F-16s fly?
2. How fast would they have to fly, to reach the Pentagon within 6 1/2 minutes after takeoff?
Ummmm… lessee… I think:
1. 214.3 MPH
2. 1200 MPH
LKL, the visa waiver program isn’t unlimited- it is only good for stays of 90 days or less for purposes of business or tourism- and the couple should probably have gone ahead and gotten a fiancee (K-1 or K-3, depending on whether they were marrying abroad or in the US) visa. So, within the scope of the law, the immigration people probably were just doing their job. Not a call I would have liked to make, but I’m not the one whose job would be on the line.
Now, whether it makes sense to scrupulously enforce all the immigration laws on foreign nationals arriving by air, while maintaining laughably porous land borders, is another question entirely.
I have a few questions about 9/11.
How did all 81 columns of building 7 fail at the same time at several different levels throughout the building? In order for it to come down at near symetry, all columns would have to fail at the same time chronologically up at several levels. Fire and damage has never caused a symetrical total collapse, only explosives have.
Why did the janitor and several other witnesses hear a huge explosion before the impact of the first plane?
What happened to the the tops of the towers, how did they disintergrate? They supposedly crushed the rest of the building, ie how did 80 floors of cold steel superstructure offer the same resistence that air would. (the towers collpased in 10-15 seconds)
According to Popular mechanics the reason 99% of the plane vanished in the ditch in shankesville is bc it was a high speed crash, how did the terrorist passport and bandana survive then? (there is no visual evidence of any more than 1% of the plane being recovered)
See loose change on google video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501
Read project day lily to find out out about the mycoplasma biowarfare program, a microbe that DR. shyh ching lo md phd from the ARmy killed every animal injected, unlike hiv.
http://www.projectdaylily.com/
Oh by the way Lynn margulis has just come out for 9/11 truth as well, one of growing number of respected scientists that realize the world is full of BS.
Ah, yes, the fine ladies and gentleman of the TSA. Last time I flew, I wasn’t allowed to bring my knitting needles onto the aircraft because the screener wasn’t “comfortable” with them. This, in spite of the fact that the flipping “allowables” list says that they’re all right and in spite of the fact that numerous people were allowed to bring pens and pencils on board, both of which were longer and bigger around then my needles.
simply stop living your life in fear.
I fear nothing, but I want the creatures that ordered the 9/11 atrocity (and London, and Madrid, and every suicide bomb that’s ever killed women and kids in Iraq) to face the music for what they have done. I would prefer that it happen in this life, just in case PZ is right and there isn’t a Hell for them to burn in.
That Barack Obama would, if President, bomb Pakistan without Pakistan’s permission if he knew terrorists were hiding there, gives me hope that at least one presidential candidate understands what war is about.
#45 Carlie thanks for posting that. Poeple really need to see it. This is America.
Ditto Justin Moretti – well put!
Stop living your lives in fear – and don’t forget to vote as often as you can…
Cheers!
If you want to do something to remember that tragedy, ridicule a holy roller who believes in heaven, which made 9/11 possible.
Dr. Myers makes a very good point about not living your life in fear. Those of who are atheists don’t worry about imaginary gods condemning us to a fiery torment in hell if we didn’t accept Jesus and died on 9-11 or any other day. I find it odd that it’s the folks who trust in God so much are overwhelming petrified of him. Even when I was a Christian, I was scared of not getting into heaven. Religion creates fear, even though it’s supposed to bring peace. If you are an atheist, you have let go of that fear and live life for now. No need to be afraid. There is no heavenly phantom ready to roast your ass when you shuffle off this mortal coil. Well spoken Dr. Myers! Your blog rocks!
Somebody froze up and couldn’t bear to shoot down a plane full of civilians. There’s a lot of people between the guy authorized to give the order, and the controls that launch the missiles. Only one has to freeze for only a little a while.
People here are still rreally burned up that she tried (badly) to argue that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS. Very poor choice of authority.
In any case – as was covered extensively after the failed 1993 WTC bombings – those buildings were built like shit. Among other things, the frames were a much weaker grade of steel (with a lower buckling temperature) than normally required for skyscrapers. So the fire did not need to get very hot to cause the frames to collapse.
On this sixth anniversary of the Al Qaeda attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, 9/11 has come to symbolize two uniquely American political failings. First, in ritualistic observances around the nation, Americans will come together not in common resolve for shared sacrifice, but to perpetuate a culture of grief. Worse still, secure in his Pakistani safe haven, Osama Bin Laden even at large continues to serve the political purposes of the current and prospective occupants of the White House.
For the details, see:
“9/11, the Politics of Fear and the Culture of Grief.”
Hear, hear, PZ! As a security professional I second your call to stand up to fear-mongers of all stripes. In security circles, as yoshi noted, Bruce Schneier has repeatedly put out the call to “refuse to be terrorized!”. Bruce has a lot of cred among us security types.
The buildings, according to harvard professor of engineering Frank demartini could sustain multiple jet impacts, he was the WTC construction mangager.
Margulis is just not a government sycophant, she can think for herself, she is just one of the many credible scientists to doubt hiv/9/11
Duesberg retroviral expert
shyh ching lo md phd
cheif of the armed forces lab
Kary mullis nobel prize winner
Walter gilbert nobel prize winner
Harry rubin ucb mcb professor etc etc
See the flaws with hiv hypothesis in this film
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6830231400057553023
200 bay area architects have come out to say the buildings were impolded
http://www.ae911truth.org/
I’m gonna go ahead and give this entire post a big thumbs down. You’re all just mad “cuz yer stupid.” Boo, you fail.
Here’s what I wrote on the occasion of the anniversary. I think PZ would agree.
One of the really interesting thing about the attacks of September 11 –aside from the inauguration of the so-called Global War on Terror, or that it reoriented so many of our institutions, civic organizations, corporations, neighborhood watch committees toward terrorism, or that the TSA now enjoys unfettered access to our baggage and our body cavities in the name of terrorism — no, six years later I think the one really interesting thing about those attacks is how completely they failed to terrorize.
Speaking very generally, I think most people shared a very similar kaleidoscope of emotions over the events of 9-11 on that day and every subsequent anniversary: disbelief, bewilderment, resentment, anger, helplessness, overwhelming sadness, grief, awe, horror and a hard emptiness at witnessing such cold inhumanity. But terror? Do we really feel acutely afraid of terrorists as we move through our day? Of course not. It is just one of many distant, potentially fatal exegencies. Even the Bush administration’s attempts to scare grow ever more transparent by the day. Opportunistic public policies notwithstanding, I truly believe that as a people we simply are not terrorized. Still speaking very generally, we seem instead to be irritated by the boring indignities of new security measures, we’re obliging at checkpoints because we’re polite and very late, and we’re genuinely naive enough to be incredulous that anybody would really hate us without knowing us. And how skeptical are we of the institutional authorities that want to use 9-11 as a permission slip for self-expansion? Somewhere between completely and ever-increasingly.
Great. So again I’m standing in line with my shoes in hand like everybody else, and year after year I get the authoritarian bullies on my right barking that I need to accept this new regime for my own safety, for everybody’s safety. That’s bad enough. Now I get Dr Myers bawling at me that I need to stop living my life in fear. You’ve really got to be kidding. Thanks, professor. How about you take your ostentatious heroism and shove it up your ass? People crying at candlelight vigils doesn’t impress you? Aww, the poor baby isn’t impressed. You want to see more action and sacrifice? Aww, poor baby. You’re so disappointed in us!
Occupational prestige is not a prophylactic against being a simpleton and a scold. To make a legitimate contribution to the public discourse on this subject, how about turning your exquisite powers of judgment away from my sheepish compliance and toward those few other subjects that you don’t understand.
Telecom, as a direct result of and in the name of 9/11 we have curtailed civil rights at home, wiretapping hundreds of thousands, suspending habeus corpus, imprisoning thousands without charge or trial… and abroad we have launched a campaign of mass murder with no end in sight.
Every day on all of the mass media, all of this is justified as part of the “war on terror,” and anyone disagreeing is condemned as a traitor and an ally of the terrorists.
If you’re saying that all of this is allowed to happen NOT because we are a nation that has been thoroughly terrorized, then apparently we are a nation of evil murderous thugs who have simply used 9/11 as an excuse to satisfy inherent blood lust and imperialistic tendencies.
No, I was not terrorized, and perhaps you weren’t, but this country is full of scared little idiots who were shaken tio their core.
As an outsider, witnessing the downward spiral of your country since the events of 9/11, it astounds me to see how many Americans are willing to give up hard-fought freedoms to an inept and criminal government in the mistaken belief that by doing so they will be safer.
The indoctrination of fear to its citizens has been the only true success of this administration.
#70 Canadian Observer….
Kind of makes ole Ben Franklin’s sage words all the more sage.
The buildings, according to harvard professor of engineering Frank demartini could sustain multiple jet impacts, he was the WTC construction mangager.
Actually, the buildings were designed to survive aircraft impacts of the types of jets flying at the time of construction, meaning Boeing 707’s and 727’s.
The 767 that hit the building were much heavier, AND they had full fuel loads.
Secondly, the building’s didn’t collapse because of the impacts. They collapsed because the impacts jarred loose the fireproofing on the steel beams, and the jet fuel ignited tons and tons of computers, paper, furniture, all the flammable accoutrements of a modern office building.
This weakened the cross trusses of the WTC, and due to the innovative way the building was built, the outside support columns fell away from the building in a nearly symmetrical fashion, and the building pancaked.
There was a very good program on this on Nova
Ive seen that nova special, if the buildings pancaked you would expect to see a stack of floors and 47 core columns sticking up in the air, you dont see that, there is a good doc called 9/11 mysteries that debunks Nova.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1921357139285191482
“Seriously, the terrorists have defeated these people and their ilk.”
I was in Fredericksburg, Virginia on the 4th of July visiting family about 3 years ago. We went to watch the fireworks display. I struck up a conversation with a middle-aged woman who was sitting next to me. It turns out she was from Texas and touring around Virginia.
I said something like “have you been to DC yet?” – DC is about 45 minutes by car from F’sburg, when the traffic is reasonable.
She said we’re not going.
Turns out that she wasn’t going to DC at all – not just on July 4th (can’t blame her, huge crowds and surly security suck) – but not on her trip. She was too scared that she would get blown up while she was there. She had never been there, and apparently would never go. She had come 1500 miles from Texas but refused to go the extra 50 miles to see the nation’s capitol for the first time because she was afraid of terrorists.
Freedom just can’t exist in the face of that kind of irrational fear.
It’s probably easy for some to say not “live in fear.” How about anxiety. Having seen the whole thing from my office window…the crumbling first building and the plane coming around the other and blasting into the other building …seeing, seeing it…and find oneself yelling “there are people in there.” Yes, anxiety. And maybe fear. Like we’ve never been aware of before.
It’s probably easy for some to say not “live in fear.” How about anxiety. Having seen the whole thing from my office window…the crumbling first building and the plane coming around the other and blasting that building …seeing, seeing it…and find oneself yelling “there are people in there.” Yes, anxiety. And maybe fear. Like we’ve never been aware of before.
…if you neglect impacts, sure.
Strangely ‘good’ interview with Tommy Lee Jones (re his new ‘Iraqi war’ movie) in USA today this morning
My favorite quote from the interview:
YES.
The thugs who have commandeered our country and their army of jackbooted thugs need to be sent back to their wal-mart jobs.
Our fine country is, yet again, having its global “bad American” image rubbed in everyone’s face.
I may be a smartass uppity liberal pinko commie atheist loudmouth, but dammit, we’re the ones who got everyone their civil rights to begin with.
Regarding the Nova special, and ‘cooler’s insistence of a conspiracy…
WTF?
maybe you need to get a thicker more reflective brand of tinfoil there bubba.
Sheesh! Sometimes evidence just isn’t enough for some people!
Lily Kennedy…
You are so right. Many people were traumatized by the events of 9/11, some more than others. I do not envy you. Those who were involved, those who saw it up close and personal, and those who spent all day watching it over and over on television were hit hardest.
My mother (who was a therapist) had clients who literally could not leave their homes for weeks after 9/11. They could not bring themselves to walk out the door. A friend of mine paced the hallways of her dormitory at night for days afterwards. She had already been struggling with PTSD from childhood sexual abuse and 9/11 made her feel so unsafe that it triggered a hypervigilance response that took weeks to overcome.
Many people around here (Boston) felt an irrational sense of guilt over the fact that the two WTC jets had originated at Boston’s Logan airport that morning. I was one of them; for many weeks afterwards I felt waves of unease every time I heard an airplane overhead.
There are many such stories. Millions, I think. Yet you were so very much closer to the real events than any of the people I mentioned.
Those who say, “If we live in fear the terrorists have won” are correct, but you’ve poignantly reminded us overcoming fear can be far easier said than done. If you’re still feeling anxiety about it, as you seem to be, I suggest you may be experiencing some post-traumatic stresses yourself. Coming to grips with the experience and its effects isn’t something you necessarily have to do alone. You don’t have to live with that anxiety. Forgive my presumption, particularly if I’m wrong about this, but your comment has a little amber light next to it and I can’t help but be concerned, even as a total stranger.
to #80
notice how you cant attack any of my arguments and resort to name calling. The new world order is coming to kill us all. 9/11 was an inside job, see the most watched movie ever in internet history Loose Change………..I love the part where 99% of the plane dissapears in the ditch in shankesville, but they found the terrorists passort and red bandana!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501
DR. Garth and Nancy Nicolson’s new book Project Day Lily http://www.projectdaylily.com/
Clearly states the new world orders machinations, Dr. shyh ching lo the Army’s highest ranking scientist discovered a microbe that killed every animal he injected it with called mycoplasma incognitus, one of the few microbes with a reliable animal model the nicolsons found in gwi/CFS/ AIDS and discovered through thier contacts it was part of the bioweapons program and tested on americans.
Wake up people, we were lied into the vietnam war, gulf war, this war, the tuskegee expirement, what makes you think they are not capable of these things?
#5, according to Hillary Clinton, we ARE safer.
This is one of the many, many, many reasons I’m not voting for her. She’s simultaneously the least progressive Dem and the one least likely to win in a general election. Worst of both worlds–someone who everyone thinks is a liberal, who’s actually pretty conservative.
My mother believes the terrorists are coming to get her. In Lawrence, KS. She totally freaked out when I told her Jim and Margene were going to Japan for the worldcon, She believes if you get on a plan you’re risking your life.
I got into a great amount of trouble by stating that it was all security theater at the airports.
I also believe that one of the reasons Kansas City lost the worldcon bid to Montreal was that the majority of voters were non-US nationals and traveling to the US has become so odious and scary that they voted against us. It’s way easier to go to Montreal.
On the other hand, I don’t have to help with a worldcon in two years.
cooler, you just don’t have a clue. You certainly don’t have much of a capability for rationally evaluating ideas. Fantasies about controlled demolition and robot planes fall apart when given any sort of rational consideration.
That’s what killed WOMAD in the US… :(
–thalarctos, still missing it years later
Answer these questions then that I posted before about 9/11 airhead
I have a few questions about 9/11.
How did all 81 columns of building 7 fail at the same time at several different levels throughout the building? In order for it to come down at near symetry, all columns would have to fail at the same time chronologically up at several levels. Fire and damage has never caused a symetrical total collapse, only explosives have.
Why did the janitor and several other witnesses hear a huge explosion before the impact of the first plane?
What happened to the the tops of the towers, how did they disintergrate? They supposedly crushed the rest of the building, ie how did 80 floors of cold steel superstructure offer about the same resistence that air would. (the towers collpased in 10-15 seconds)
According to Popular mechanics the reason 99% of the plane vanished in the ditch in shankesville is bc it was a high speed crash, how did the terrorist passport and bandana survive then? (there is no visual evidence of any more than 1% of the plane being recovered)
See loose change on google video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501
Read project day lily to find out out about the mycoplasma biowarfare program, a microbe that DR. shyh ching lo md phd from the ARmy killed every animal injected, unlike hiv.
http://www.projectdaylily.com/
Can I have answers to these questions?
Conspiracy theorists are really really annoying.
annoyingly brilliant.
… and soothingly humble.