Uh-oh. Americans United for Separation of Church and State is in trouble now: some wrathful priest is cursing them in the name of God and has used the power of imprecatory prayer to ask the Lord to smite them.
Oooooh. There hasn’t been any detectable lordly smiting in millennia, or even longer. This could be impressive. You can catch Pastor Wiley Drake on streaming Christian radio tomorrow morning at 9am PST — I’m sure he’ll be calling down hellfire in a most entertaining way. I’ll be traveling, unfortunately, so someone will have to tune in and report back.
Heh. “Imprecatory prayer.” These guys are so old-school medieval, aren’t they?
When I read thsi post your random quote was;
As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
[Voltaire]
Random outcome or design? hhhmmmm
That’s some sexy theism right there.
Jesus loves you*!
*Unless you’re brown, poor, or gay.
I can feel the love oozing out of this guy in the exact same way my lactose intolerance acts up whenever I oogle the selection at the local Baskin-Robbins.
If it wasn’t all just bullshit this could be seen as terroristic threatening. Wonder how god will work through his chosen people?
The words used are also threatening and if there WAS a god there who WOULD do as requested then wouldn’t that be seen as assault? They are praying with intent to do harm/evil to a group and people. I wonder if Joe Conn or Jeremy Learing could press charges…
Do you have to roll a saving throw for this or is it just a basic level spell cast?
Drop the bones and Eye-of-newt guys, we’ve been found out, and they are bringing out the big guns!!!
I’ll be under my bed in fear of the ominous “prayer”
Keith
From the players handbook. Chapter 9 Cursing your enemies.
Caster’s Faith roll is opposed by the target’s Reason roll. If the Caster fails or the targets roll is higher then all that happens is people point and laugh. If the Caster’s roll is higher then the Caster will claim that some tragedy in the targets life was caused by his God. The Higher the result of the roll the further back in time the caster can go to claim responsiblity. see table 9-11.
“Jesus Loves me but he Can’t Stand You”
Austin Lounge Lizards
MP3 clip
Man! You are so lucky. I’ve been trying to get someone to consign me to the pits of hell besides my baby sister. Getting personally smote! (smitten?) That’s a cut above damnation, and just behind banishment.
@ Bert Chadick
Smiting ain’t got nothin’ on damnation!
As tempting as mocking this people is, it can have reprecussions. Back in the ’90’s the anti-abortion folks, virtually all of whom are motivated by the conviction that their god is guiding them, pushed some to kill doctors, escorts and guards at gynecological clinics. And they succeeded in several instances. Pastor Drake is no different and he knows there are nuts out there who may actually act on his rants. I’m sure that Barry Lynn (head of AU) and Americans United has already taken precautions.
In that connection, some of you may not realize it but Planned Parenthood clinics nationwide and non-PP clinics that offer the similar services, have bullet proof glass in all their windows and air tight security regarding any access. At the clinic where I volunteer, the windows include seven layers of glass interleaved with six layers of heavy plastic sheeting–like auto windshields but much thicker. That doesn’t come cheap, but it’s the price we pay to exercise our rights.
On a different but related note the Catholic Church is up in arms over an about to be announced new policy of Amnesty International backing abortion for rape victims. What catalyzed Amnesty’s new policy has been the use of mass rapes in Darfur to further the cause of the Sudanese government and its Janjaweed allies. The Catholic Church, of course, thinks that raped women should be forced to carry any resulting fetus to term, a position I regard as downright barbaric. You can read about it at http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/081407WA.shtml
We’re facing a similar issue in Pennsylvania this fall where a bill to require all hospitals to offer emergency contraception (Plan B) to all victims of rape brought into the ER will be brought up in the legislature. The Catholic Hospitals are fighting it with the public backing of the bishops’ council (or whatever their umbrella group is called). Such laws have already been passed in NY State, California and I think in Washington and Oregon. If it hasn’t come to your state yet, it will soon. So get out there and back it, when it appears. And if it isn’t on the horizon, pester you state representatives. Rape victims need everyone’s support.
Apparently Pastor Wiley Drake isn’t familiar with the success “Dr.” Hovind had with his prayers when he flaunted the IRS in the name of his god.
Sweet! Now when all the girls ask, I can attribute my acne to Pastor Wiley!
Could we have this guy committed? Seriously. He’s clearly insane.
Does anyone remember Mighty Mouse? Would it be funny in an obscure in-joke way if I called Pastor Wiley Drake “Smitey Mouth”?
“Here God comes to save the daaaaay!”
So is 714-865-8132 a toll number that will drain away your money via the phone company or just a regular telephone number?
If the latter, give Pastor Wiley an earful.
Man, this is just insane. How anybody could go after Barry Lynn for anything is just crazy. I’ve met the guy, he’s a great person and very bright. He’s actually quite funny, too.
This is getting very old.
phat
In case anyone wants to speak to a loon, the number is-
Contact: Wiley Drake, 714-865-8132
I imagine that rational speech will have the same effect as if you were speaking to someone at Rev. Fred’s church.
I defy this small man and his curses. Do your worst!
What, like god will make my computer explo!€›‹
+++
NO CARRIER
So after the prayer thingy doesn’t work, who’s Pastor Dickless going to call?Seems like the AU have already got Bill Murray on side.
Yes it’s true this man doesn’t have a dick.
Ah-ha! Beat you to this one, PZ! (Like it matters. ;-)
@SteveC
The 714 area code is Orange County, CA, where the Rev’s church is located. Buena Park, home to Knott’s Berry Farm and right next door to Anaheim. Somebody needs to get this guy a season pass to Disneyland and tell him to mellow out some. Of course, he’s probably out protesting Disneyland because they let gays in.
Shameless promotion: Yet another good reason to join AU! I’m a member and I encourage people to join. They’re fighting the good fight, folks!
OK, Ad over…
If it were only the invisible geriatric sky-guy people have to worry about I wouldn’t sweat it. But some nut job could end up doing something stupid because he was “moved by the Holy Spirit”…
It is important to remember the reason that Pastor Wiley Drake is asking Christians to pray for God to smite Americans United for Separation of Church and State and it isn’t because AU thinks he should be able to say what ever he wants:
by pointing out that the good Pastor explicitly endorsed a political candidate he is risk of endangering his Church’s Tax Exemption.
That’s it. He wants God to strike down AU because his own actions could cost him his tax exemption. Personal responsibility? Nope. It’s all somebody else’s fault and may God strike down the messenger.
errata: “and it isn’t because AU thinks he shouldn’t be able to say what ever he wants:”
That is, AU thinks churches can say whatever they like, but they don’t deserve a tax deduction when they become political engines rather than religious ones.
I wonder if Drake could be charged with attempted GBH or for contracting a hitman. Even though his actions are completely laughable, he clearly has intent and thinks his actions will work… Or maybe he just needs a short vacation in a psychiatric hospital :P
Let’s sue the good pastor for mental suffering.
My ancestors would tell you not to be so dismissive of those imprecatory prayers. Check out my last name!
> Let’s sue the good pastor for mental suffering.
If someone at AU should suffer some random misfortune within the next few days, they *ought* to sue, or press charges.
At the very least it will be interesting to see what happens when a court takes a position on it.
Wiley Drake sez:
“Now that all efforts have been exhausted, we must begin our Imprecatory Prayer, at the key points of the parliamentary role in the earth where we live.
John Calvin gave the church its marching orders from Scripture. The righteous have dominion, but only through imprecatory prayer against the ungodly,” to quote that sly duck.
Dammit! They did everything right, knowing in their hearts that God will NOT fail the righteous. So, they must feel terribly disappointed but somehow interpret that feeling as empowerment. I understand, but I didn’t for a moment think it would come to this.
Goodbye, everybody.
In passing (cough) I have to say I’ve always been rather fond of the idea of “smiting.” It so happens my surname is Smith. A few people insist on calling me Smitty. I learned basic blacksmithing before I was ten yeas old. This is all just too much for me.
Just another Christian.
In the UK he would be guilty of incitement to religious hatred. So he might be committed to a different sort of institution (largely because the government has done away with most mental institutions).
They don’t deserve those tax breaks anyway!
“Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” seems an appropriate reference here ;-)
truth machine @32: Barry Lynn, the head of Americans United — the pro-secularism group that Wiley Drake is calling on God to smite — is also just another Christian. A reverend, in fact.
(BTW, to make my own views clear: no religious group should enjoy tax-free income. Rev. Drake’s church should be taxed — whether or not he abuses his pulpit for political endorsements — and so should Rev. Lynn’s. A religious group that needs a government subsidy to stay solvent shouldn’t be in business. And, if nothing else, removing favourable tax treatment for religious groups would provide a disincentive for those only in it for the money. There’d be far fewer TV preachers, and probably no scientologists at all.
But you in America have it relatively good. Your churches merely get a tax break. Where I live, the government actually imposes a tax on church members and turns the proceeds over to the relevant church!)
Whassisface sez:
Someone help me out. Whats with the “key points of the parliamentary role …”? Can someone who speaks Christian translate that for me please?
PZ says:
“Oooooh. There hasn’t been any detectable lordly smiting in millennia, or even longer.”
Maybe this counts ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4311611.stm
PZ, didn’t you hear that God smote Ariel Sharon for his sins?(That is, per Pat Robertson).
Maybe this counts ;)
I thought we stopped stealing their sheep/cattle/church bells a few years ago?
Here’s the full text
Wiley Drake can’t touch those old school guys for literacy, inventiveness or style.
Oooh, I remember Sharon. God gave him and ischemic stroke. Then slipped in a heart problem, and the doctors, evil defiler’s of God’s wishes that they are, scheduled a cardiac catheterization and ordered bed rest. God hardened Sharon’s heart (and maybe his arteries), so he went back to work. Then God slapped Sharon with a massive stroke, stuck him in a coma, and later offed him. That God is a bitch of an assassin.
“Imprecatory Prayer”
Maybe we could persade the muslims to try this method instead of tying bombs around themselves, and issuing fatwas.
If god was the only one allowed to smite the world would be a lot less smitten.
Since the last real test concerning intercessory prayer and healing showed that patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse than their non-prayed for compatriots, I’m thinking that I’ve got less chance of being smited (smitten?) now than ever. Thanks crazy Jebus folks!
http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html
….. and later offed him.
Hey TrueBob, not so fast. Sharon is still alive – technically speaking…
Maybe I’m a prophet then. I think I channelled the rumors of his death when he slipped into perma-coma. Sharon = Schiavo
Trying to imagine that prayer…
Dear Lord…. please kill all the AU staff.
Joe Conn and Jeremy Learing are especially mean, so wipe them off the face of the earth first.
I love you, Jesus. Amen.
This guy is rather tame for a fundie cultist. Just read the PR and he is calling on god to smite the AU. Usually they just call on god and whoever to murder their victims.
Speaking of terrorists, has anybody seen Michael Korn, the wannabe evolutionary biologist assasssin? He certainly has fallen off the radar screen even though there is a warrant out for his arrest. My bet he is in a Xian safe house somewhere or has fled the country.
We just need a couple more high profile cases (like Hovind) and then they’ll realize that God is just as afraid of the IRS as the rest of us. Oh, he can’t hit a 2 iron either. Omnipotent my arse.
I am so not praying for him to not come down with a really severe, painful, case of hemerrhoids.
I’m also not praying for him to not have any Preperation-H.
Bah, too many negatives. And I can’t spell.
I’m also not praying for him to have any Preparation H.
Wanna see some real imprecations? This is from Psalm 69, which the gospels quote from a couple of times (so I guess that presumes that tender sweet Jesus is OK with the sentiment):
“May the table set before [my enemies] become a snare; may it become retribution and a trap. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever. Pour out your wrath on them; let your fierce anger overtake them. May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents…Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.”
Pretty fricking far cry from loving one’s enemies and doing good to those who persecute one, eh?
Isn’t this like Henry II famously uttering “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?”
The poster of #53 should have read post #35 before posting …
Odd that no one here seems to have pointed out that imprecatory prayer is **precisely** what the phrase, “taking the lords name in vain”, refers to in their silly book. lol
Well, Kagehi, true believers are excused from needing to adhere to the 10 Commandments, especially when money is involved.
God apparently needs money to fund the maintenance of the Universe.
Greg Peterson wote:
“Wanna see some real imprecations? This is from Psalm 69, which the gospels quote from a couple of times (so I guess that presumes that tender sweet Jesus is OK with the sentiment)”
I’ll see your Psalm 69 imprecations, and raise you Psalm 109.
Psalm 109:
[6] Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser bring him to trial.
[7] When he is tried, let him come forth guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin!
[8] May his days be few;
may another seize his goods!
[9] May his children be fatherless,
and his wife a widow!
[10] May his children wander about and beg;
may they be driven out of the ruins they inhabit!
[11] May the creditor seize all that he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil!
[12] Let there be none to extend kindness to him,
nor any to pity his fatherless children!
[13] May his posterity be cut off;
may his name be blotted out in the second generation!
[14] May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD,
and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out!
[15] Let them be before the LORD continually;
and may his memory be cut off from the earth!
Let’s see if you can trump that one! :)
That pastor and his pious imprecators better make sure they have all their ducks in a row before they start messing with a powerful prayer like that. According to this site the curse could come back and zap the prayer if he or she is not pure enough.
http://www.moseshand.com/buildup/prayer.htm
Psalm 420:1- May the fleas of a thousand camels nestle in his crotch!
smite : verb
1. to sic mites upon
(Be afraid. Very afraid.)
I think the good Pastor Wile E. Drake (sounds like a cartoon duck obsessed with revenge) is a radical anti-American intent on the overthrow of the Constitution. I therefore call upon God to smouse him.
“Smouse”?
Look ye all upon Kseniya, and tremble!
If something bad happens to us, can we sue?
In my opinion, there needs to be more smiting. I know lots of people that should be smited (smote?). It’s too bad smiting has gone out of style. God used to smite all sorts of people. I have this neighbor who clipped the yews between our yards and left the clippings in our driveway. He definately needs to be smited.
In God’s name, I smite thee.
I’ve been reflecting for the past few months on the name of a certain affliction: the stroke. When someone keeled over in their tracks, people used to think they were struck down by God. Or perhaps Thor. Now we know that it’s a cerebrovascular accident.
But seriously, folks… I have to wonder how the good Pastor Drake will rationalize the inevitable lack of smiting.
Either he’ll say that God is taking His sweet time about it, or he’ll make a cryptic reference with one of his employees about how “God helps those who help themselves.”
One of my friends works at AU and noted that he got jeremy’s name wrong. i belive its leaming, not learing. so hopefully hes still safe. does god check spelling?
Winnie,
He probably doesn’t. Apparently He can be fooled if you use letters to write His name which must not be spoken, or something like that. Probably He is illiterate, never having had a need to write or read anything Himself.
The spelling and pronunciation of His name has occupied the minds of many great scholars. Yet another waste of human potential that is attributable to contemplation of Him.
Wait till the Southern Baptist pastor finds out that you called him a priest! Surely he doesn’t consort with the Whore of Babylon.
“May the Bird of Paradise fly up your nose.”
There is 1 case of God smiting sinners:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10378874
It’s “smitten,” though I’ve heard “smote” used too.
Lucifer, that wasn’t God – it was Zeus. He is getting pissed now, after all the patience he’s shown with this silly Christianity thing.
smite
I smite, you smite, we smite, he smites, they smite.
I smote, you smote, we smote, etc.
I have smitten, you have smitten, etc.
“After he smote me, I realized that I’d been smitten.”