Revel in the crankiness: Charlie Brown Must Die. (If that link doesn’t work for you, here’s a direct link to the Quicktime movie)
P.S. I do not endorse incinerating blockheaded kids. After all, I’m one of those Christmas atheists.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
“P.S. I do not endorse incinerating blockheaded kids. After all, I’m one of those Christmas atheists.”
I have a friend who celebrates “Agnostic Children get presents day”
This is the best Decembewween evew! (Haven’t watched the video: At work with known fundies next door.)
Mornin’, Dr. Myers…
Here’s a little pseudoscientific Christianist fun to brighten your day:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327
Eeek! Soy will give you Teh Gay!
Sorry but there is one and only one true and canonical takedown of the Peanuts Gang…
BRING ME THE HEAD OF CHARLIE BROWN!
If that was reversed to be a Christian message, I’d bet that some of the CINOs who get so angry that they have to post here would be cheering it on, dontchathink?
“Rudolph with your nose so bright.. won’t you guide my sleigh tonight…”
Can he be next?
I have a question. How do you approach the subject of Christmas and Santa Claus with a 3 year old (well not quite 3). I want him to enjoy the holiday and getting gifts (who doesn’t?). Do I tell him all about the Santa Myth as if it’s real? Do I read him the night before Christmas? At this age reality and pretend all blend into one anyway.
Just curious about how other atheists and agnostics treat the whole Santa is coming soon problem.
Here’s another one. Not as delightfully mean spirited, but still funny.
It is YULE! the old midwinter festival.
Enjoy!
My children figured it out on their own, the realized quickly that Mommy was the one shopping for gifts and that I would discuss with them what they thought a teacher or close friend would want the then saw me purchase or make said gifts.
I took them to ‘see’ Santa and get their pictures taken and such, but never put too much emphasis on him. They asked about the Nativity that was set up at the church across the street and I explained that some people believe such and such and then had to explain how Santa and trees came into the picture and so on.
I think you’ll find that children are quite clever and he’ll have this figured out by 5 or 6. I would just let him know that you are reading him stories, just as the Grinch is a story.
Steve_C:
What is so valuable about a cultural tradition of peddling lies to children? Why frame it as truth, when we all know (and they too will soon know) it’s just an amusing story? When you read other stories to or with your children, ones involving pure fantasy, do you imply that THOSE are real too?
Enjoying the holiday is separate from enjoying a lie. You can still take joy in a story that is just that — a story. I don’t have children, but I would approach it as a fun story to think about, just like any other children’s tale. What if Santa were real? Wouldn’t that be interesting? How would he do those things? But, since he isn’t real, what can WE do to celebrate the season? Besides, aren’t gifts from real people who love you better than gifts from an imaginary stranger you’ve never seen?
You could just give him presents, and leave out the Santa thing until it comes up (ie. when he hears about it from friends). Or tell him it’s a pretend story. Granted, he can’t yet tell the difference — so? I assume you already expose him to other works of fiction — if it’s presented on the same basis, he should be able to work it out as the neurology matures.
Why assume this is an atheist/agnostic issue? We were still Christians when our kids were small — but we told them that Santa was pretend, along with Rudolph. I don’t see why the Santa myth (other than the loose historical connection to St. Nicholas of Smyrna) should be considered part of Christianity — certainly not the flying-sleigh, coming-down-the-chimney, hangs-out-in-shopping-malls part. The fact that many other people at church seemed to consider it so was always a source of annoyance to us.
Well I’ve never said Santa was real or not. I mean Elmo isn’t real either but I’m not going to tell him that. I’ll just treat it as a fun story. I’ve asked him what he wants for Christmas but have not framed it as “what do you want santa to bring you?” I do treat him as a character. I’d rather not have Santa know if you’ve been bad or good.
I have a distaste for QuickTime and all other Apple products. Not the point of this comment, though.
I searched for “Charlie Brown Must Die” in YouTube, hoping someone had posted it in an alternate format; no luck. Then I tried the same search in Google Video.
I got two hits – for KENT HOVIND lectures! Nowhere in the descriptions for these videos do any two of the words I used in my search string appear. It seems the use of the word “must” and “charlie” were sufficient to find these videos. I’ve noticed I tend to find Kent Hovind “lies in textbooks” type videos on Google Video before, for other completely unrelated searches. This is really weird – has anyone else noticed this?
I’d say peddle the Santa thing to him. He’ll eventually figure out that Santa isn’t real, and it will be a good lesson in how adults lie to those they have power over, and that, in the absence or evidence, and the presence of simpler and more powerful explanations, quite a few other things out there are also myths (like that fellow on the cross, for example). I think George Carlin once said that every kid needs to be disillusioned at some point, or maybe it was that every kid needs to have some trauma…can’t remember, but my point is in there somewhere.
Don’t get me started on Mac Haters. Macs are a tool and they work quite well.
Go here if you want to read about a long time mac hater switching over (and quite a few others in comments): http://thomashawk.com/2006/11/thomas-hawk-buys-mac.html
I’m sure I’ll truamatize my son in plenty of ways. I don’t want to blackmail him with Santa.
If he ever gets around to asking if Santa is real I’ll not lie. And I won’t dress up as Santa either.
Ugh, that’s such a long name. Tell that friend to call it what I call it: Gift Day!
I’m looking forward to the eventual smackdown, myself. My kids believe in the lot, and as I’ve mentioned before, I’m in a mixed marriage as far as religion goes. When they finally figure it out, I’m expecting a cascade of “Not Santa? Not the Easter Bunny? Not the Tooth Fairy?… Then what about God?”….. you got it, kid. Hopefully they’re good enough thinkers to put two and two together regarding the similarities among happy good invisible beings their parents tell them about.
I get this weird guilt when I feel like something I may be telling him is false.
I mean, he believes everything I say at this point. It’s las if I can only half heartedly talk about Santa.
Steve C:
Just keep treating Santa as a story. You may drop in a comment here or there that it’s all pretend. Eventually you might warn him that some kids really believe in Santa and others. My kid got yelled at a few times for debunking Santa and God at school. She felt sorry for the kids who were lied to. I’m struggling with having friends who play up Santa each year and expect me to go along with it. I think it’s a terrible way to start out a parent/child relationship.
Sue
I’d rather let other adults disillusion him rather than me. We’ll keep talking about Santa like we do about Elmo or Big Bird or the Backyardigans.
My favorite explanation of Santa is that Santa is how we do nice things for other people without trying to take credit for it. Santa makes it a secret because you want to give something to someone, but don’t want them to know it was you. I plan to use this to help my kids segue into the reality of it – it could be a very nice way to teach selflessness.
Steve, I think your attitude sounds fine to me. Sooner or later the kid will develop his own suspicions (thinking for himself: healthy!), and will come to you with questions. And then you can give him an honest answer. I wouldn’t fret much about it either way. Natural cognitive development will do most of the work, I’m guessing.
One thing my parents did that I appreciated in the long run was that they never attributed all the Xmas gift-giving to Santa. Santa contributed his share of presents, to be sure, but so did mom & dad and my older sister. So when it turned out that gifts from ‘Santa’ were really just more gifts from mom & pop (& grandparents, of course), the Christmas holiday actually made more sense than it had before, because it became even clearer that the whole ritual was about familial generosity and suchlike. It also kept the story a little bit believable when mom & dad were fairly obviously purchasing presents for us kids. So we had it both ways, I guess.
How about just telling the “real” story of St. Nicholas?
Oops, but leave out the part about saving the two girls from prostitution. Yikes.
steve_c, I have no children but I have a lot of respect for the ability of even very young children to see through B.S. and to appreciate gestures of kindness and generosity.
I’m rather drawn to the notion of explaining the importance of sharing and giving. Just as individuals have special days, such as birthdays and anniversaries, groups of people have larger celebrations, like the gift giving season we call “Christmas.”
I actually think it can be helpful to refer to the old “Saint Nicholas” myth as the source for the Santa Clause story. People were so moved by the idea of “gifting” that they decided to adopt the practice and to clothe it in the imagery of Santa Clause. What kid wouldn’t want to encourage the practice of giving toys or other goodies? Surely he will see it as a valuable custom!
I’m sure you will find the right thing to say and do with your son, he seems to be in good hands.