Don’t worry. I’m not planning to make “Jesus” a frequent interjection…that last post just got me in the habit.
nomativasays
I agree with you about a lot of stuff BUT
I don’t think about Jesus and Christians nearly as often as you do. Religion is a way for some people to deal with their fear by providing some unseen power to “protect” them. Those in positions of power use religion as a club to compel obedience. They have tried to hit me with it but I know it is a Nerf club. Mostly I find Christians and Muslims and the whole gamut of religious freaks boring and irrelevant.
Fred Jsays
Ha ha,
That same Julia is commenting over at Ricardo Azevedo’s that got me in trouble on your earlier thread. You think I should answer her question about the difference between an atheist and agnostic again?
PZ, I am on your side, but in my view science can only have “nothing to say” about the supernatural. Science can only say it has no evidence “for” the supernatural.
My own atheism is brought about by many years of no proof for a god, and no help from a god, and earlier in my life no answer to any prayers. Every one I prayed for died. It is hard for me to prove no god. I just know…
MYOBsays
I was standing up to them back in the 80’s. One of the girls I was dating was a rebellious fundy. Raised in the church she began her rebellion against authority but still caved to it on most ocassions. When I first met her parents I saw that they were wealthy middle class snobs who saw church more as a social connection to further thier own needs than a place they would go out of fear for the salvation of their soul. As far as they were concerned their souls were already saved and they were free to pretty much do anything they f*cking wanted. Until they were bankrupt or thrown in jail there was little chance they would see an act of god in thier lives meant to get them to change the course of their lives.
And they hated me with a passion.
For starters they seemed to have an eerie sense that they knew I was screwing their daughter but couldn’t or wouldn’t come right out and confront us about it. They didn’t like the fact during the times I went to church with them at their daughter’s request I didn’t wear a rich man’s suit. Instead I wore something you’d get at JC Penny and that was just too trashy for thier tastes.
When it came to politics they despised the fact my parents and I were democrats. When they discovered I felt strongly about my support for the theory of evolution they just couldn’t live it down. They just had to confront me about it. Now I was willing to have a sit down and discuss these things with them, but what I didn’t expect was to have them invite thier church preacher to sit in as well as several others who were specially trained to brainwash the other church youth into accepting jesus over facts and science.
When I arrived I suspected they were in the process of concluding a party or post-church get together and that most of them would leave. Much to my chagrin it turned out they wre there specifically for me. I took it in stride and tried to be polite as they started with bible passages and the notion that I had to accept them cause they were the truth and there was no questioning that. When I first tried they seemed to lose patience and act as if I was not going along with the program. They repeated everything they had said, only they did it more forcibly. After a few hours where I was allowed to say almost nothing in my defense or the defense of my support of evolution, I was allowed to ask a question about the bible. I asked them why they were so quick to accept the ranting mythology of a bunch of desert roaming nomads written thousands of years ago.
Of course this wasn’t what they wanted to hear and at that point I had to wonder if they weren’t so upset at their failure to beat me down with preaching that had I not been a linebacker in school and outweighed them all by probably 50lbs each if they wouldn’t have tried to be a bit more physical about it.
Either way I got bored with it all and started to leave when I was told I couldn’t until I gave them a chance to respond to my question about supporting the myths of desert roaming nomads. I told them quite politely that I didn’t care what they thought. That it wouldn’t mean anything. That they had already made up their minds before it all got started and that I resented the fact a bunch of communists like themselves had tried to indoctrinate me with something so f*cking ridiculous that I would prefer to believe in cabbage patches and storks as a means of procreation. I then told my girlfriends father that if they want to beleive in that mindless trash about virgin births, rising from the dead, and the obvious afterthefact made up excuse that jesus died for our sins in order to explain away why the so-called ‘son of god’ was so easily killed then they could. I then followed that it wouldn’t have prevented the fact that I had nailed his daughter only the night before and on their bed to boot.
I walked out asking him if he wondered why his bed sheets were so sweaty.
Suffice to say she was so upset with me we broke up.
I don’t blame her.
I would never have married into that family for all the money in the world.
MYOB’
.
klystronsays
Most “forthright godless” scientists do not fall into the category of “mindless wannabe scientists whistling past the graveyard”, so don’t hold your breath moonbat.
No, PZ, I say continue with the blasphemous interjections as often as you feel it’s necessary. I sometimes find myself responding to posts online, and feel the need for a “For christ’s sake” or “Jesus god man!” but often bottle out. Sometimes being dragged into a blasphemy flamewar isn’t worth the hassle.
But it is how I speak in real life. The last really stressful place I worked (a printing shop) I once sneaked into the office for a breather from the customers and let out a forceful “Jesus fucking christ!”… at which point the resident evangelical behind me said “I don’t think that was his middle name, you know”. Hehe.
Ithika: If it was said jokingly, well, I think it’s pretty funny for an evangelical. In fact, that would be the funniest intentional joke I have ever heard an evangelical say (though they say some funny things when not trying to be humourous).
I know a lot of Jews who use “Jesus Christ” and alternatives as an epithet, myself included.
Every once in a while, I’ll just start making up middle names. “Jesus Tiberius Christ” was always my favorite.
cmsays
“Jesus” competes with “American” for the most overused word/concept, at least for this US’er. I’m just so sick of hearing them, from any and all sides. And plastic Jesus figurines and jokeware is sooo Y2K. Enough already.
Alexsays
PZ, I am not a scientist. However I would like to participate. I really hate the word hate, but I really hate religion. They need to be exposed for what they are – those who would believe the unbelievable without just cause. They use dishonesty and fear as their intellectual sanctuary. There must be a way to “marketize” and commercialize the “rational movement”. I’m not talking about converting people to a rational non-theistic world view. But there must be a compelling, appealing way to compete with the zealots for public opinion and favor. Rational thought has put men on the moon. Surely we can sway public opion.
Carliesays
nomativa – I think it would be very nice to be able to think of them as irrelevant, but they’re not making it easy. It’s difficult to have a live and let live attitude when they’re actively trying to legislate away one’s own job, the lives of one’s friends, etc. The fact that the senate is even willing to debate adding marriage rules to the Constitution, that courts are bogged down with stupid add religion to classrooms cases, and so on indicates that what they believe is by no means irrelevant to my life.
Jee-zus P-Z Christ, we are not worthy to post comments on your blog! ;-)
Well, if you get invited to Dawkins’ house, I dare you to set up a video camera and ask him to “give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome.” How he’ll laugh!
Don’t worry. I’m not planning to make “Jesus” a frequent interjection…that last post just got me in the habit.
I agree with you about a lot of stuff BUT
I don’t think about Jesus and Christians nearly as often as you do. Religion is a way for some people to deal with their fear by providing some unseen power to “protect” them. Those in positions of power use religion as a club to compel obedience. They have tried to hit me with it but I know it is a Nerf club. Mostly I find Christians and Muslims and the whole gamut of religious freaks boring and irrelevant.
Ha ha,
That same Julia is commenting over at Ricardo Azevedo’s that got me in trouble on your earlier thread. You think I should answer her question about the difference between an atheist and agnostic again?
PZ, I am on your side, but in my view science can only have “nothing to say” about the supernatural. Science can only say it has no evidence “for” the supernatural.
My own atheism is brought about by many years of no proof for a god, and no help from a god, and earlier in my life no answer to any prayers. Every one I prayed for died. It is hard for me to prove no god. I just know…
I was standing up to them back in the 80’s. One of the girls I was dating was a rebellious fundy. Raised in the church she began her rebellion against authority but still caved to it on most ocassions. When I first met her parents I saw that they were wealthy middle class snobs who saw church more as a social connection to further thier own needs than a place they would go out of fear for the salvation of their soul. As far as they were concerned their souls were already saved and they were free to pretty much do anything they f*cking wanted. Until they were bankrupt or thrown in jail there was little chance they would see an act of god in thier lives meant to get them to change the course of their lives.
And they hated me with a passion.
For starters they seemed to have an eerie sense that they knew I was screwing their daughter but couldn’t or wouldn’t come right out and confront us about it. They didn’t like the fact during the times I went to church with them at their daughter’s request I didn’t wear a rich man’s suit. Instead I wore something you’d get at JC Penny and that was just too trashy for thier tastes.
When it came to politics they despised the fact my parents and I were democrats. When they discovered I felt strongly about my support for the theory of evolution they just couldn’t live it down. They just had to confront me about it. Now I was willing to have a sit down and discuss these things with them, but what I didn’t expect was to have them invite thier church preacher to sit in as well as several others who were specially trained to brainwash the other church youth into accepting jesus over facts and science.
When I arrived I suspected they were in the process of concluding a party or post-church get together and that most of them would leave. Much to my chagrin it turned out they wre there specifically for me. I took it in stride and tried to be polite as they started with bible passages and the notion that I had to accept them cause they were the truth and there was no questioning that. When I first tried they seemed to lose patience and act as if I was not going along with the program. They repeated everything they had said, only they did it more forcibly. After a few hours where I was allowed to say almost nothing in my defense or the defense of my support of evolution, I was allowed to ask a question about the bible. I asked them why they were so quick to accept the ranting mythology of a bunch of desert roaming nomads written thousands of years ago.
Of course this wasn’t what they wanted to hear and at that point I had to wonder if they weren’t so upset at their failure to beat me down with preaching that had I not been a linebacker in school and outweighed them all by probably 50lbs each if they wouldn’t have tried to be a bit more physical about it.
Either way I got bored with it all and started to leave when I was told I couldn’t until I gave them a chance to respond to my question about supporting the myths of desert roaming nomads. I told them quite politely that I didn’t care what they thought. That it wouldn’t mean anything. That they had already made up their minds before it all got started and that I resented the fact a bunch of communists like themselves had tried to indoctrinate me with something so f*cking ridiculous that I would prefer to believe in cabbage patches and storks as a means of procreation. I then told my girlfriends father that if they want to beleive in that mindless trash about virgin births, rising from the dead, and the obvious afterthefact made up excuse that jesus died for our sins in order to explain away why the so-called ‘son of god’ was so easily killed then they could. I then followed that it wouldn’t have prevented the fact that I had nailed his daughter only the night before and on their bed to boot.
I walked out asking him if he wondered why his bed sheets were so sweaty.
Suffice to say she was so upset with me we broke up.
I don’t blame her.
I would never have married into that family for all the money in the world.
MYOB’
.
Most “forthright godless” scientists do not fall into the category of “mindless wannabe scientists whistling past the graveyard”, so don’t hold your breath moonbat.
No, PZ, I say continue with the blasphemous interjections as often as you feel it’s necessary. I sometimes find myself responding to posts online, and feel the need for a “For christ’s sake” or “Jesus god man!” but often bottle out. Sometimes being dragged into a blasphemy flamewar isn’t worth the hassle.
But it is how I speak in real life. The last really stressful place I worked (a printing shop) I once sneaked into the office for a breather from the customers and let out a forceful “Jesus fucking christ!”… at which point the resident evangelical behind me said “I don’t think that was his middle name, you know”. Hehe.
Ithika: If it was said jokingly, well, I think it’s pretty funny for an evangelical. In fact, that would be the funniest intentional joke I have ever heard an evangelical say (though they say some funny things when not trying to be humourous).
I know a lot of Jews who use “Jesus Christ” and alternatives as an epithet, myself included.
Every once in a while, I’ll just start making up middle names. “Jesus Tiberius Christ” was always my favorite.
“Jesus” competes with “American” for the most overused word/concept, at least for this US’er. I’m just so sick of hearing them, from any and all sides. And plastic Jesus figurines and jokeware is sooo Y2K. Enough already.
PZ, I am not a scientist. However I would like to participate. I really hate the word hate, but I really hate religion. They need to be exposed for what they are – those who would believe the unbelievable without just cause. They use dishonesty and fear as their intellectual sanctuary. There must be a way to “marketize” and commercialize the “rational movement”. I’m not talking about converting people to a rational non-theistic world view. But there must be a compelling, appealing way to compete with the zealots for public opinion and favor. Rational thought has put men on the moon. Surely we can sway public opion.
nomativa – I think it would be very nice to be able to think of them as irrelevant, but they’re not making it easy. It’s difficult to have a live and let live attitude when they’re actively trying to legislate away one’s own job, the lives of one’s friends, etc. The fact that the senate is even willing to debate adding marriage rules to the Constitution, that courts are bogged down with stupid add religion to classrooms cases, and so on indicates that what they believe is by no means irrelevant to my life.
From Azevedo’s blog:
Jee-zus P-Z Christ, we are not worthy to post comments on your blog! ;-)
Well, if you get invited to Dawkins’ house, I dare you to set up a video camera and ask him to “give an example of a genetic mutation or an evolutionary process which can be seen to increase the information in the genome.” How he’ll laugh!
Sweet Jesus, here‘s my contribution to the atheist scientist movement. Inch’ Allah!
I don’t know Jesus’ middle name, but i thought the initial was H.
“Jesus” ??
As in Yeshua ben Joseph, the result of the umarried mother Miriam/May’s fuck?
quork: Yes, Jesus Haploid Christ, as the saying goes. Of course, Christ is a title, not a name, but whatever.