Everything normative Islam stands for

It’s helpful when reactionary theocrats spell out how reactionary and theocratic they are. There’s this guy Ghulam Esposito Haydar for instance. He’s not pleased that a liberal Muslim has been invited to speak at the Living Islam festival.

So at this years Living Islam, the ISB have invited a speaker from the BMSD.. who’s also a part of Tell Mama..

Don’t feel it’s appropriate. Wasn’t required. .

Really? He doesn’t want the founder of British Muslims for Secular Democracy there? So he disapproves of secularism and democracy, and thinks they’re not “appropriate” at such a festival?

Wow. Good to know.

His last comment on that post is even more informative.

 I know fairly well who she is. She’s from the group ‘British Muslims for Secular Democracy’ & ‘Tell Mama’ as well. She’s pretty much against everything normative Islam stands for, and I mean the things that are agreed upon by the people who call themselves traditional Sufis, Salafis, Brewlvis, Deobandis, Ikhwanis, Ahlul Hadith, etc

So “normative Islam” is against democracy and secularism?

Good to know. I hope it gets taken over by people like Tasmina.


  1. qwints says

    I’m always really conflicted when I read conservative or reactionary religious leaders says that moderate or liberal religious people aren’t really religious or don’t represent real islam or whatever other religion. I want to agree with them, and say that liberal religious people are just embracing universal secular values. On the other hand, I hate the idea of helping them in their fight against people who I agree with.

  2. Silentbob says

    @ 2 Tony

    False dichotomy. The non-desert religions can die peacefully in their sleep surrounded by garlands of flowers.

  3. Blanche Quizno says

    Let them all burn.

    qwints, perhaps the scenario wouldn’t be so confusing if the moderate or liberal religious people were to speak out, powerfully and unequivocally, against the evils of their religions’ extremists. But they don’t/won’t O_O Even though their religions’ extremists attack them! At best, all we can say of these moderate or liberal religious people is that they are suffering from a serious collective lack of spine.

    Oh, and Silentbob? The non-desert religions were burned alive by the desert religions. Without having the opportunity to make a single garland of flowers. Nothing but ash and the stench of burned flesh.

  4. says

    Good for them to invite her.
    That’S what we need, inviting the right people and pissing off the right people.
    Let’s face it, Islam won’t disappear in a hurry, therefore shifting the overton window in favour of the liberals is a good thing

  5. says

    I think there’s a scope ambiguity in “against everything normative Islam stands for”. It can be read as “against everything [that] normative Islam stands for”, which seems to be your reading, and which introduces a new term I haven’t heard before, or as “against everything normative [that] Islam stands for”. What’s interesting is that the second reading treats Islam as a monolith aligned with what we recognise as fundamentalist interpretations. I think this is what the author meant to convey; if so, he is, in this particular case, an unlikely ally to the likes of EDL, who commit the same mistake. Hardly an original point, but it’s refreshing to see it admitted so openly.

  6. Omar Puhleez says

    I find it hard to distinguish between ‘living Islam’ and ‘mummified Islam’. Disputes within its ranks at best are discussions behind closed doors. The only public ‘dialogue’ taking place between its various factions occurs using rocks (mildest), bullets and bombs.
    Without doubt, Islam is the most violent religion in the world today.
    PBUI. (Peace, be upon it.)

  7. OpenMindedNotCredulous says

    @2 Tony said “As opposed to the non-desert religions that you want to keep alive?”

    Not at all. I think jws1 was simply reflecting the very real fact that the three Abrahamic religions are currently the biggest, by far, source of trouble relative to all the other religions combined as I write this. We should definitely be working to reduce the influence of all religious faiths. But if I have to prioritize then Christianity and Islam are going to get the bulk of my, and jws1’s, attention. Still, I can appreciate that a citizen of India, for example, might feel differently.

  8. says

    Opposing a group that is labelled Secularism and Democracy is not the same thing as actually opposing secularism and democracy. Thats like if al Qa’eda renamed themselves bunnies and flowers and you said “WHAT! YOU DONT LIKE BUNNIES AND FLOWERS?”

    This is a really weak point you made and I can t believe thats the entirety of your post. BMSD are not held in vevy high regard in the Muslim community due to their aggressive confrontational attitudes towards other Muslims and their authoritarian brand of secularism they endorse.

    Sorry but if he has a problem with them its no big deal

  9. says

    Oh golly, Abu Fatimah, I haven’t chatted with you in ages. You’re a bit of a zealot, you know, so I don’t really take your view of the BMSD as authoritative.

  10. Al Dente says

    Opposing a group that is labelled Secularism and Democracy is not the same thing as actually opposing secularism and democracy.

    However opposing a group which actively and publicly supports secularism and democracy is exactly the same thing as actually opposing secularism and democracy.

  11. says

    Also, Abu Fatimah, what is this thing you call “the Muslim community” and how do you know what it thinks of BMSD? Did it nominate you to speak for it?

  12. OpenMindedNotCredulous says

    Abu Fatimah @10 said “BMSD are not held in vevy (sic) high regard in the Muslim community due to their aggressive confrontational attitudes towards other Muslims….”

    How dare BMSD tell Muslims who are attempting to impose Islam on everyone else to stop it. They really need to learn their place as servants to Allah and the people authorized to interpret his holy words. People like you. It’s good to know we can trust you and the rest of the right thinking Muslim community (which BMSD is apparently not part of) to tell us how to live. </snark>


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