*I apologize for this post being so long. If you want to read the most humorous parts, scroll down until you get to the quotes from the former porn actress, Shelly. They’re the “highlight” of the show.
As many of you know, last night I attended Porn and Popcorn, a Christian anti-pornography event hosted by the Stewart Cooperative, the Purdue Student Union Board, and other various Christian organizations and local businesses (Chick-Fil-A was one, nothing too surprising there). Oddly enough, about 25 other members of the non-theists joined me. At least I had an excuse of “this will make a good blog post,” but I think they’re all just a bit masochistic. Or in it for the free pop and popcorn, which we received without bursting into flames or being struck with lightening.
Proof I wasted my time going to this thing
We settled down on Slayter Hill, a big open air amphitheater on campus where you just sit on the grass to watch the stage. There were about 600 – 1000 people there (wide range, I know, I’m not good at guestimating crowds). The band was already playing (not well, but playing), and I was amazed that they weren’t playing Christian rock. Actually, the fact that they were singing songs I enjoy unnerved me a bit, because I suddenly heard the lyrics from a different perspective (Wait, this is about God and not his girlfriend?!). They even had about 10 female groupies in front of the stage jumping around with their hands in the air. Eventually they had 20 people holding hands and skipping around in a circle, at which point the giggling began.
As we were waiting for the real show to start, they had PowerPoint slides cycling through with what would be the only “scientific” facts of the entire show:
- “90% of kids age 8 – 16 have seen porn.” What a wide age range. I’d love to see the distribution of that, because I’m sure the vast majority of those numbers come from the older kids. When you have a skew like that, you can’t just keep including a lower age for shock tactics.
- “True or False: 18-24 year olds are the highest porn users – False. 12-17 use porn the most.” Wow, shocking. Maybe that’s because 18-24 year olds are actually having sex and are less curious about human sexuality because they’ve already learned about it? Oh wait, no, we’re supposed to be in shock that middle and high schoolers are looking at sexual things. Sorry.
- “Women are more likely to act out their sexual urges, like casual sex, multiple partners, or affairs.” Um, no. Buss 2006 summarizes the many studies that show men desire casual sex more than women, and both sides would engage in the same amount since they need to be doing it with someone, assuming heterosexual sex. Men and women would on average have the same number of partners, but men desire more. Laumann et al 1994 found that 25% of married men and 15% of married women had an extramarital affair at some point in their marriage. Nice try with the lies to slander women.
The show opened with a nicely produced video set to some hip hop music (dude, they get us) about how horrible sex and porn is. They had some skeevy looking guy taking of advantage of what I have to think was a thirteen year old girl, especially since they had toys and children’s drawings everywhere. Afterward the pastor* comes out and tells us this is a reality (*Side note: I just want to make it clear that these are the “good” Christians who say Jesus loves everyone, only God judges, love the sinner hate the sin, yadda yadda). Yeah, sexual abuse of children is a reality, but it has nothing to do with pornography and should not be used as an emotional tool. But that’s the only tool they have. The entire two hour presentation contained nothing but emotional arguments and personal stories – those “facts” I listed above were as close as you get to “science.” To illustrate my point, here are some of the scare tactics they used at the beginning (bold is their arguments):
- Senior citizens are the highest porn users. Doesn’t that make you want to throw up? Wow, way to marginalize an entire group of people for being sexual. Oh wait, that’s the whole point of this presentation.
- A mother called us saying her 8 year old son stumbled upon a porn site. Yeah, he “accidentally” found it. Rigggghttt.
- Porn destroys the economy because you’re wasting your money on it. This said right after they tell us how porn is a multi-billion dollar institution. Doesn’t that mean it would be stimulating the economy? (EDIT: Apparently even Gingrich agrees with me)
- When this anti-porn Christian group went to a porn convention, everyone their loved and accepted them. Therefor they’re doing the right thing. Could you imagine a Christian convention accepting a porn group? Or maybe people at porn conventions are more liberal and open minded, and accepting of people who are different than them?
- Men feel terrified and guilty that they have to hide porn from their wife. Maybe you shouldn’t marry someone who’s so uptight and anti-sex that she’s not cool with you watching porn. Some great communication you have in your marriage there.
- Porn is a gateway drug to child porn. What. No.
They then brought out a former porn producer to talk about how he saw the light, quit the porn industry, and became a Good Christian. Every story he told didn’t shed any light on the evils of porn – it just showed that he was a giant douche bag. He cheated on his wife multiple times before even getting started in porn. He secretly was a porn producer for 3 years without his wife’s knowledge, and then when she found out, she left him. It’s not porn that ruined your marriage – it’s that you’re a lying dick who was duping your wife. He then went on and on about how he ruined all of these women’s lives and tricked them into porn, how in between shoots they would curl up in the fetal position and suck their thumb, how they needed surgery to correct the sexual things he made them do. I’m going to call Bull Shit on all of this, but even if it was true, that just further reflects on the guy’s character, not porn – he’s a giant insensitive ass.
Pastor: What did you think of our group when you first saw it?
Porn Producer: I thought you were a porn site making fun of Christians, and I thought it was a great idea!
Us: *laugh* …*realize we’re the only people laughing, go quiet*
He then went on to tell the story of all his inner turmoil because of porn (no, because you’re a jerk) and how he used to be a troll at Christian forums. But they were all so nice and even though they banned him they kept telling him over and over again that they would pray for him. And eventually he prayed that God would give him sign.
Pastor: At some point you need to give up.
Us: …
His car broke down and while the mechanic told him it was something wrong with the spark plug, he knew it was God. And that’s when he stopped being an atheist and accepted Jesus. …Yeah, buddy, if you’re asking God for signs and you’re willing to believe events with rational explanations are signs, I’m inclined to believe you weren’t an atheist. Stop trying to make us look bad. He then went on to say how he was at peace, which including crying and puking… uh, okay, sounds real peaceful to me.
Porn Producer: There are bad Christians, but not a bad God.
Josh: Because there’s no God
Me: *high five*
These sort of emotional, personal stories went on all night: they never presented any scientific studies or even included possible credentials they have (anyone have a degree in Psychology? no?). It even included a video of Pornmobile Confessions where people talk about their porn problems while riding in the backseat of a Mini Cooper at night. Their main argument is that they get people writing them all the time about how porn has ruined their lives. Um, have you heard of sampling bias? You only see the people who have been negatively affected by porn because those are the only people who are contacting you. The vast majority of people have had a neutral or positive experience, but you don’t see them because you’re not seeking them out. I’m sure some people really have had negative experiences with porn, but they’re blowing it way out of proportion.
And with the people who did have bad experiences with porn, those were all caused BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION. People feel guilty/scared and hide porn from loved ones, and it ruins their marriage because of bad communication. People feel guilty for being sexual beings or need to turn to porn for their sexual curiosity. You know where this guilt comes from? RELIGION. If conservative Christians didn’t beat over your head that sex was so evil to begin with, people wouldn’t be having these problems. We’d have comprehensive sex education and open dialog about human sexuality so little kids wouldn’t have to turn to the internet for information. We wouldn’t feel guilty for engaging in normal sexual activity. We’d be able to talk about sex with our loved ones before marrying them and finding out they have incompatible viewpoints.
It’s like Christians have fabricated the problem of sex so they can come down and fix it. And that’s the only solution or “reasoning” they give: Jesus. All they repeated is that you need to follow God’s plan and be a pure person. “Jesus died and can help you,” but they don’t say how. They never give a single other reason other than God. What about people who aren’t Christians? What’s their incentive to stop watching porn? I guess they either forget us non-Christians even exist, they figure we’re a lost cause, or they see this as a good method to get us to convert to Christianity. The Religiosity Level was through the roof at this point as they told people to give themselves up to Jesus, and I really expected them to ask people to come up on the spot, but they didn’t.
And as an important side note, this whole beginning piece came off as very demeaning towards women. All women were painted as fragile children who couldn’t make their own decisions and were duped into porn. I never heard the pastor or the porn producer refer to females as women or ladies – they always called them “girls.” Whether you were a helper in their movement, a porn actress, or the producer’s wife – you were “Girl.” Way to show some respect to adult women.
Then the night took drove right past Religiousville and took a right into Bizarroland. They brought out Shelly, a former porn actress who talked so nonsensically that the whole audience (not just us) was murmuring in confusion and convinced that she was either high or that her brain was permanently warped from years of drug abuse (which she later admitted to). Her talk was not only rambling, but incredibly sexist and racist, which was even more ironic coming from a black female. It was so rambling that I can’t form coherent paragraphs about what she was saying, so here, have some lovely statements:
- “Women were created as helpers.“ Isn’t it lovely how Christianity can brainwash you into subordination? Why do women take this shit?
- “Chosen virginity” Apparently those times you lose your virginity when you were a confused heathen don’t count. You get to start over when you’re Christian again!
- “Once you start having sex, God’s plan doesn’t want you to stop.” Or maybe you don’t want to stop because you realize how nice sex is. What does that have to do with God’s plan? If he doesn’t want you to have premarital sex, why would he keep you going unless his plan is flawed?
- “If he can’t pay for the movie, he can’t pay for the rent! You don’t want him!” What the fuck? So that’s all women want in a man – support? I rarely have had guys pay for dinner because we usually split, but if he does, I’ll usually pay for dinner sometimes to. I can’t imagine the idea of a boyfriend paying my rent. My parents raised me to be able to take care of myself without a man, thank you very much.
- She was introduced to masturbation by her African Studies Professor, who said it was the best way to have an orgasm. She also supposed he was sleeping with half of the students. First of all, what is the purpose of pointing out he was an African Studies Professor? Second of all, since when is it okay to make wild libelous claims that you give absolutely no proof of?
- “Think of a clean glass of water. Now imagine greasy finger prints all over it, like I was just eating fried chicken. That’s what masturbation is.” …I don’t know what’s more disturbing here, the fried chicken comment, or the fact that masturbation is considered dirty.
- Many women like masturbation more than sex, and that ruins their sex life. Therefore masturbation is bad. Or maybe their lack of communication ruins their sex life because they’re too ashamed to tell their partner what they enjoy.
- “Women were created to receive.” …Feminist rage in 3…2…
- God created sex so you could be one with your partner. Every time you have sex, you’re creating oneness with that n
ew person, so you’re fracturing your soul into pieces.
OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES. That’s really how Voldemort was doing it, but Rowling had to keep the book rated PG-13. Man, so does that mean when I reach 7 sex partners I’ll become all powerful? Sign me up! - Do any of you watch soap operas? *looks at audience* A DUDE watches soap operas? Man, we’re going to need to have a talk. Yes, because you’re not conforming to your gender stereotypes! Oh, she then went on to say soap operas were evil, which I guess I’ll agree with to an extent.
- “Non-married sex is fake, it’s counterfeit. The devil came up with it.” …Yeah, around this point she started invoking the devil. I have to admit this made me really uncomfortable. I mean, I’ve heard a lot of ridiculous religious things before, but just something about someone going on about the devil’s influences and truly believing he exists unnerves me. It’s such a convenient excuse for all the bad things you do that it absolutely absolves you of personal responsibility or control.
- I had four abortions because my friend told me they were an option. Yes, blame your friend for your irresponsibility. Four, really? I mean, I’m pro-choice, but at a certain point you have to learn to be responsible. Maybe if she had proper sex education she would have known how to properly use contraception.
- I had such bad self esteem that I would sleep with any guy who complimented me to thank him. Yeah, how is this porn’s fault and not some serious issues you have? Go see a Psychologist, not Jesus.
- I was sleeping with this gangsta guy who was had seven girlfriends at once. Again, what does this have to do with porn? This just shows that you made really poor life choices and have bad self control when it comes to sex.
- I was a wedding planner for my best friend, and I slept with the groom. Okay, what are all of these stories illustrating other than you’re uneducated about sex, out of control, have severe psychological problems, and are a horrible friend? Oh, that’s right, they’re setting you up to be incredibly hypocritical:
- To connect with an unbeliever is to connect with the devil. and “If he can’t be a faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you.” Yep, can’t go a whole Christian event without bashing the atheists. This quote made me fume. I just listened to a bunch of Christians go on about how they cheated, had promiscuous sex, kept giant secrets from their spouses, got STDs, did drugs, had abortions, etc etc – but that’s all okay because they found Jesus. But those atheists? They have no morals, so they’re all going to cheat on you. What a bunch of fucking shit. Our whole group was sitting their in awe of how morally bankrupt these people were, because we’re actually good, honest people, and then they go and say we’re the cheaters. Or as my agnostic friend said, “My current girlfriend (atheist) is the first one to not cheat on me, compared to all the Christians I dated.” PSUB is going to get quite a few unhappy emails about how they’re sponsoring events that slander non-believers with unfounded lies. I yet again had the wonderful feeling of being an outcast; that if I introduced myself to random people at Purdue and they found out I was an atheist, the vast majority would instantly not like me. But if you can believe it, that wasn’t the quote that upset me the most that night:
- “Protective sex is a joke.” Wow. I can’t think of a more horrible thing to be telling a crowd of 18-25 year olds. This is just plain irresponsible and dangerous. Again, I can’t believe PSUB would sponsor an event that could have a severe detrimental affect on the health of students at Purdue. I…I’m really left without words.
After they basically had to kick Shelly off the stage because she ran over her time and refused to stop talking, they went right back into the Christian rock band. That’s right, no time for questions. But you know what, it doesn’t really surprise me. This type of religion isn’t about asking questions or thinking for yourself. The event was to give you a biased view (no one pro-porn there) and to tell you what to do and how to think or else God will be very disappointed in you. I guess I was naive to assume they would encourage any intellectual discussion.
We then left and went to Qdoba to eat food and rant, and I’m sure some of the arguments we came up there were far more intelligent than the things I have just said. But I’m getting to the point where thinking about this depresses me, so I’m going to leave the rest of the insightful comments to you guys, and give you some funny highlights from the event:
Pastor: What better truth than the Bible?!
Non-Theists: *giggle*
Pastor: God wants to come inside you!
Friend: Woah, kinky
Shelly: *first comment* Sex outside of God’s intention is desicration.
Me: … *feeling insane at this point, lays down, covers face with notebook, and has a stifled tear-producing giggle fit, which in turn makes all the other members giggle inappropriately*
Friend: Jen’s down! Jen’s down! Monya [Treasurer], you’re our first in command now!
Shelly: How many of you are virgins?
Audience: *some people put hands up*
Shelly: I mean a real virgin. Oral sex and anal sex and masturbation count.
Audience: *everyone puts hands down*
Shelly: What’s that one guy’s name with the long flowing hair?
Me: (from all the way in the back) FABIO!
Shelly: Yeah, Fabio! He’s used as a sex symbol –
Non-theist females: Ewwwww Fabio
Shelly: Any of you ever want to admit to having a roach in your apartment?
Me: *only person in audience who raises hand*
Shelly: Yeah, you live it up, girl!
Me: …Wait…IS SHE TALKING ABOUT MARIJUANA? I MEAN THE INSECT! *horrified, lays down in grass dying laughing along with all the other Non-Theists*
Minutes later
Friend: Jen! Now she’s talking about bugs! Either she was always talking about cockroaches or she just got confused mid metaphor.
Me: Knowing her, it’s the latter.
Shelly: How many of you girls have asked a guy what his life goals are before dating him?
Non-Theist girls: *raise hands*
Shelly: Only you four? You go girls! (Yeah, those evil, corrupt atheists…)
Shelly: How many of you have had one of those crazy drama girlfriends?
Some Non-Theist girls: *raise hands*
Angry Christian nearby: Faggots
Yeah, that last one wasn’t funny – just wanted to illustrate what we’re dealing with at Purdue.
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“Yeah, sexual abuse of children is a reality, but it has nothing to do with pornography” That’s an incredible statement. I wish you had given the citation to back it up. Every guy that I’ve worked with, who was in jail for sexually abused anyone, children or adults has put porn at the top of the list of things that got them all jacked up to the point that they went hunting. Every single one.
Watching vanilla heterosexual porn between two consenting adults made your friends want to go molest children? Really? Why don’t you go show me the study that supports that?Now if you mean watching child porn encouraged them, then yes, that could possibly be true. I can see how seeing something repeatedly would make some people want to go have it – key word, some people. Plenty of people have fantasies that they would never act out because they either don’t want to or have self control. When your friends blame porn for their own actions, it’s a cop out.And the idea that porn is a gateway drug to child porn is just laughable. If you’re surfing for porn and find something hideously unappealing to you, do you keep watching? No, you close the window. If you’re watching kiddy porn it’s not because you stumbled upon it, it’s because you had a predisposition towards it to begin with.
If anything, God would want people to screw as much as possible. It’s natural reproductive urges!Don’t forget! “Sex is like being at the right gate but the wrong door!”
@MakariosBut Pornography didn’t turn them into the sexual abusers that they are. They use porn, porn didn’t create them.
Excellent post, Jen.What I don’t get is, if these people really think pornography is evil and detrimental, why can’t they just come up with some evidence rather than simply spouting off about religion and using biased anecdotes?I’m in a bit of an interesting position here in that I don’t personally approve of porn for the most part, but that’s a personal aesthetic judgment and I wouldn’t want to prevent people from enjoying it if they do. I could almost sympathize with these people, if they weren’t such bloody overbearing religious fanatics and if they weren’t trying to ram their worldview down people’s throats.What I’m curious about is, how did the majority of (non-non-theistic) students react to this presentation? I’m optimistic enough to hope they also saw through it… after all, these are university students we’re talking about here.
mcbender, I totally understand. There are definitely some aspects of porn that aren’t the greatest. But to make sweeping generalizations about *all* porn with religious conviction and no actual evidence… That’s not so good.And I’m fairly certain most of the non-theists thought it was equally ridiculous, since most of us took part in a giant rant-fest afterward and the quiet people looked more naturally shy than offended or anything.
To establish causation of pornography to child molester, you have to go the other way around. It could be that child molesters like pornography, not pornography that causes people to molest children.Additionally, your experience is anecdotal which, scientifically speaking, is worthless. It’s a great place to form hypothesis (as it’s pretty much the only place), but it doesn’t establish causal relations.
@Makarios: What Jaki said. Porn is a tool for child molesters, not a cause.
How is it possible for 12-17 year-olds AND senior citizens to be the highest porn users at the same time? They can’t even keep their stats straight.
Very interesting. I’m not surprised by what went on at this thing. I wouldn’t expect anything less than lying and hate filled lectures from these people. It was a fun read. I’m glad I wasn’t there though. I would’ve been fuming.
GREAT post. I wonder if Kelsey or Tom from the Facebook wall were satisfied with this event. Probably not quite what they were expecting.
Hearing it from you, this sounds like one of those events I wish I could’ve attended, with something to drink, to eat, and an iTouch (heehee) with which to send dozens of quick tweets to a private Twitter account as notes for what to mention later on when I got home and started writing one long, furious blog post …Great and well-thought-out post as usual, Jen. No wonder I follow you. (Blog-wise. Stop looking over your shoulder now.) ;-)
I don’t disagree with you at all, and I hope I didn’t give you that impression in my prior comment.However, I think you misinterpreted my question, though. I wasn’t concerned with the non-theists, but the non-non-theists who were also present (it wasn’t a typo, but maybe I should just have said theists instead). I was curious as to what you saw of the reactions of the other students there who weren’t members of your group.Did you get any immpression of what the general, overall reaction was?
Oh, I didn’t think you were really disagreeing with me, just wanted to clarify how I felt about the issue.And I totally mentally ignored one of your “non”s, ha. Well, there were some Christian folk nearby who were giggling occasionally, and while there was applause where gaps allowed, it wasn’t really thunderous…just polite. Other than that, I can’t really judge what people thought. Most stayed for the movie, so I didn’t hear people talking on the way out or anything.
Makarios, Take a look at all the people who use porn in the US. It is a huge number. Do all of them abuse children? Obviously not. You are confusing correlation with causation.RobsterFCD / Robert B
Those people need to listen to Sasha Grey talking about stuff. She’s some smart lady. I usually only see like the first five minutes of her videos because unfortunately that’s the time she uses to spend talking before she gets into it. She even used the word “psychosomatic” once.I’m sure she would get those chaste people sold on anything.
From the linked Facebook page:XXXChurch (leading expert on pornography) will present from 9:30-11:30“Honey, what are you doing on the computer?””Err, um, ‘Research’. You know, for work. We have to be experts.”
Wow. As a university student in Canada, I cannot possibly imagine a presentation like this happening on our campus. The nominally religious people would find it nearly as insane as you do, and even the very few hardcore religious people we have up here would probably find it over the top.
Thanks for the report. I’m actually a little surprised to say that my state (Maryland), which isn’t really all that progressive, recently had some controversy involving porn where my school actually came down on the right side of things. That is, the legislature was threatening to cut $400 million in funding to UMCP because they were showing porn in the student center, in a nonacademic setting, and sponsoring at least 2 debates featuring Ron Jeremy.Here’s the link: http://www.time.com/time/natio…Although the screening was officially canceled since the funding cut would likely go through, I’m pretty proud of the reaction it engendered on campus; students, professors, and administrators alike. I’m pretty sure you had to present ID to get in to their informal showing. It cost $5 for a ticket, so they were screening people anyway; it wasn’t an open-air gathering like yours.
A horrifying view of humanity. What were the racist elements in the talk? There were a few subtler ones in your report but I thought since you mentioned it explicitly there might have been more.
Just like Butch Hancock says, Christianity teaches you that sex is the most filthy, awful thing that can be imagined, and that you should save it for someone you love.
I feel so filthy after reading this story. is this intellectual porn?Can you imagine yourself saying one day: “When I was young, I went through horrible things to please my blog readers. I went to a Creation theme park, a Christian anti-sex ranting event and much more, just because my readers complimented me into it,” Of course not, you’re a sane, responsible adult. ;)Thank you for this dirty job.
“If conservative Christians didn’t beat over your head”I think you may have just inadvertedly invented a whole new genre there.
Well done on another great post! I don’t particularly see what Christians have against porn, and from the scanty pseudo-science they came up with (child molestation related to porn – WTF!?) this just goes on to further that argument! They know their argument of “the bible says porn is wrong” or something vague like “watching porn is a sin” does not stand on its own, and they clearly have to associate it with things like child abuse just to get people to pay some attention. It seems that once they have the attention of people they can then start on the bible bashing. There’s something fundamentally wrong with that. Also, I’d really like to congratulate you on bringing up the point that some “born again” Christians have been real arseholes before they converted, but when they do convert everything is different for them and their now ‘the good’. As you more or less pointed out, most atheists have never done anything as bad as that (for example: taking drugs, breaking up people’s marriages, even murder!) but we, the atheists, are still the evil ones? *despair*In Britain we’d probably never get anything like that rally; although, on The Big Questions today (BBC) they asked: “Is there too much sex on television” and one Christian woman stated that children/young people didn’t need to see “rape, incest, fornication and homosexuality” on the TV. *gasp* Yesh sir, she actually got away with grouping homosexuality with rape and incest. Anyhow, that’s a different argument for a different day!
Since science isn’t the god that theists worship, I wouldn’t be so quick to judge their exploration of the negative affects of porn as a complete flop. Some of us believe that scientific discovery is limited enough to not be completely trusted.It’s true that XXXchurch did not present the solution to porn very clearly. I believe that the purpose of the event was more to explore the negative effects rather than present the gospel. Maybe that was a bad move on their part. However, if you truly want to know more about how Jesus changes lives, I’m game for an intellectual discussion–complete with honest questions on both sides.
Nate, If there were anything remotely intellectual about Jesus/god/any other deity, I might consider your offer. I think we’re all familiar with the wondrous magic of jesus.
@SamanthaBella:”The Big Questions” is a very strange program. I’ve only seen the two episodes that Richard Dawkins was on (you can find them at richarddawkins.net), and it was rather disheartening to see him as the only person saying anything remotely sane (although his reaction at one point was hilarious, when a man on the show said “of course the devil exists!”). I can’t imagine what it would be like watching it without him there.
wow, I just learned something new.Senior citizens are 12-17 years old!!(correlating their two “highest using” groups)roflol
Thanks for taking one for the team! I think you should take this information and turn it back on them with an event of your own.
That was hilarious and informative. I salute you for your journalism efforts.
Holy heck, Jen, prepare the bastions: PZ’s just linked to you once again. =P
“Some of us believe that scientific discovery is limited enough to not be completely trusted.”The problem is that merely believing something doesn’t make it real. My youngest believes in the Tooth Fairy but that doesn’t mean he’s got a valid alternative to modern dentistry. If you want to explore something like the impact of porn then, I’m sorry, there is simply no reasonable alternative to the methods of science. (And certainly not “My pastor says…”)
“This type of religion isn’t about asking questions or thinking for yourself.”There are types that aren’t?”That’s an incredible statement. I wish you had given the citation to back it up. Every guy that I’ve worked with, who was in jail for sexually abused anyone, children or adults has put porn at the top of the list of things that got them all jacked up to the point that they went hunting. Every single one.”Right, because we all know people who commit heinous crimes are always scrupulously honest about their motivations and never try to make excuses (especially those that social prejudices incline others to believe) to try and deny responsibility for their actions.[EDIT]WHY THE BLOODY FUCKING HELL DOESN’T BLOCKQUOTE WORK?!
@Azkyroth:Because this is Blogger. =(
About the porn-child abuse thing:The points about correlation not being causation are good, but you also want to note how many men watch porn and DON”T abuse children. When an activity is fairly common in a population, it will be fairly common in most, maybe all subgroups of that population. I bet men who abuse children wear socks and drink coffee in the morning too. Will there be an anti-sock and coffee group emerging soon?Also, if a person is accused of child sexual abuse (or any other sexual assault, for that matter) and the evidence is solid, he is going to sing any song that will minimize his penalty and what better song than “Porn made me do it!!”.
Those really are some bad arguments. I don’t even agree that porn is bad in general and can think of them… if you’re going to build an argument out of ancedotes, why not find an example of trafficed women (I’d be surprised if organized crime wasn’t involved in porn, if not in the US, then elsewhere). And where’s the OCSA regulations? I always wondered about this. The only thing regulating the porn industry is the porn industry currently.Porn has pleny of problems and issues, its amazing they did such a bad job of arguing againist it. I suppose its because porn is viewed as a moral issue, so the more down-to-earth issues are ignored (health and crimes againist women). So to them relating it to child abuse makes sense, it all part of immorality.
His car broke down and while the mechanic told him it was something wrong with the spark plug, he knew it was God. So…this is his god? Epiphany via the combustion engine. Just when I thought I’ve heard it all.
“Yeah, sexual abuse of children is a reality, but it has nothing to do with pornography and should not be used as a emotional too. But that’s the only tool they have”I have to disagree with you there, that pastor sounds like a massive tool. (do you guys use that expression in America?)
Excellent post – thanks for the insight into the extremely disturbing way that some people view their own humanity and natural curiosity, desires, and impulses.I thought you brought up a very important issue – when people feel guilty for using porn, it is not because porn is inherently wrong; it is because they have been told (usually by their church) that porn is immoral and evil. There’s a striking similarity here with how Christians argue that abortion is harmful to women. A common anti-abortion argument is that women who have had abortions feel very guilty about them. It is beyond ridiculous that conservative Christians can say this with a straight face, when it is clearly their unrelenting shouts of “abortion is murder!” that would make women feel guilty in the first place! Creating a problem and then claiming to solve it seems to be a common tactic for these people.
I have to say the Horcrux comment had me laughing out loud for five consecutive minutes. My neighbors likely think I am insane… or a mad scientist, and its all your fault! :P
You sound like a goddamn jew. I hate you liberal kikes, hope you burn in a car fire!!
^ Im wit stoopid
Wow, doesn’t even have the fucking balls to put a name with the ignorant hatred. Typical.
Me liek pr0n!
this is an amazing post – makes a ton of great points, and the horcrux comment had me literally rofling. Thanks for taking one for the team.
I have a quibble with the end of your post. You talk about Perdue “allowing” such an event, impressionable 18-25 year old etc. As someone in that age range (as I’m sure you are), let me point out that we’re adults. Let’s pretend that adults make their own decisions. At a university, even a private university, there is an obligation to permit students access to the expression of ideas of all stripes. No matter how deluded.I think you drastically overestimated the size of the crowd. I wasn’t there, couldn’t know. However, I’ve gotten fairly good at estimating the size of crowds (protests, etc.) and based on the fact that someone in the back could be heard outdoors, I’d set 600 as maybe the upper-limit. I know you admitted to slight inability there, but I couldn’t let it pass uncommented upon. Ah, catharsis.Other than that- right on! The poverty of their scholarship is unsurprising, though I felt more pity than scorn for Shelly. I believe peoople deserve second, third, and even fourth chances for their mistakes and it sounds like Shelly is wrapped up in yet another one. I’m with you that the taboo of pornography no doubt causes more harm than good. Although there is room for talk about thinking critically about pornography and the role it plays in misogyny without going completely against it and becoming sex-negative prudes.
By the way, I hate this “gateway drug” argument applied to anything anyone finds remotely objectionable. Let’s assume (for a moment) that porn is a “gateway” towards child porn-seeking. The number of factors that go into that include such things as predisposition, the independent decision to defy the law, etc., etc., etc. Once you take all such things into acccount, it becomes immediately apparent that the fact that the person has genitalia and reptile brain is a greater factor. Geez, the Spaniards were raping and selling 9 and 10 year old American Aboriginals as slaves before the mass proliferation of pornography.Life itself is the original goddamn gateway drug. When will that be verboten?
Wait a minute, here.Purdue is a public university. That means it is predominantly funded by public means the federal government. The Purdue Student Union Board is an official department of the Purdue Memorial Union.I’m pretty sure that means that this event was at least partially funded by public tax dollars.How is this legal?
Chemist,I didn’t realize I may have come off that way, but I in no way believe this event should have been banned or something. I fully support free speech even when it’s something I disagree with. I didn’t protest the event or try to have it stopped – I sat in the back and listened (with occasional giggling and groans).I guess my main beef was that PSUB helped sponsor it. I don’t like the idea that a group that’s supposed to be educating students and supporting diversity is effectively doing the opposite. It just seems against their mission.And I swear there were a ton of people there – I tried to use the size of my 25 person crowd to estimate, but who knows – I should have taken a photo.
predominantly funded by public means *through* the federal government. egh.
I graduated from Purdue in ’01. I new it was conservative but not tight-assed racist conservative. This is a little depressing.
Pastor: God wants to come inside you!Well, if that’s God’s approach that could explain why He’s only gotten laid once in 6000 years.
It’s clear that you had some serious rational concerns about the presentation you went to. But this is very much a rant. Not unlike a lot of ranting I hear from Christians against atheists and atheists and agnostics against Christians. I’m not trying to discount what you said, but it’s a little hypocritical that your main concern was that these people gave an emotionally charged presentation low on facts and focus and you in turn make an emotionally charged rant that is mostly just opinion. It’s a blog, that’s what blogs are, I get it.
wait. quiet. I hear something rumbling. shhhh? what is that? oh, yeah, I can tell what it is now. ::::BIG HUGE F*CKING APPLAUSE!!!!!!::::That post f*cking rocked. Bravo chica bravo! It is just so awesome to see a strong thinking educated woman speaking out like you are. You inspire me!
@mcbender: “What I don’t get is, if these people really think pornography is evil and detrimental, why can’t they just come up with some evidence rather than simply spouting off about religion and using biased anecdotes?”Because religious adherents are self-selected for not really understanding the concepts of “evidence” or “proof” in any meaningful way, and then further discouraged from thinking along those lines once they are members of the religion. Whatever facility for rational thinking they might have had when they joined soon atrophies from lack of use, if not deliberate corrosive attack. Recently I ran across two websites sparked by the “Probably No God” bus ads where visitors are encouraged to post why they believe god does or does not exist. The atheist site was full of the rational arguments we all know, whereas the religionist site was full of “proofs” of the existence of god like this: “God exists because he made all things and takes a personal interest in us all.” You can’t have a rational discussion about proof and truth with someone with whom you have no common frame of reference for those terms. They probably are just as puzzled by us, the way we always keep insisting on rational logical steps when they “know” that “truth” has nothing to do with that.
@miketheinfidelI know for a fact, having been part of the leadership of a student religious group at one point that they are eligible for funds like any other on-campus group… provided they are not exclusionary. That is, if Atheists can join and attend events as well as make decisions within the body politic of the group, then the group is entitled to funds. This usually makes student groups uneasy and they don’t apply for funding, unless they know they can’t be co-opted by sheer plurality of vote.That said, no one can decide independently what groups and ideas can or can’t be considered academic, and if the Atheists can get funding, so can the Baptists etc. This is not really an establishment of religion, unless you want to eliminate the funding for student groups altogether.
@anon. Her post may have been emotional but the difference here is, is that her post is full of facts and rational thinking. The rally that she posted about was all emotion and fear based and based nothing in facts or rational thinking. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I don’t think it’s illegal, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a poor choice on the part of PSUB, at least for PR reasons.Wow, that was probably the most horribly written sentence in existence…I apologize.
Whoops, didn’t catch Chemist’s well-thought-out bit about non-exclusionary events. I’m still going to check up carefully on the protocol for these kinds of events, because I’m very curious to see what is and isn’t okay.
@dwasifar:”You can’t have a rational discussion about proof and truth with someone with whom you have no common frame of reference for those terms. They probably are just as puzzled by us, the way we always keep insisting on rational logical steps when they “know” that “truth” has nothing to do with that.”I agree with that completely; it’s entirely consistent with my experience of these people.The question, then, should become ‘how ought we to get through to them?’. Unfortunately, I haven’t the foggiest.
Ack, I should clarify my last comment on several counts. I’m not at Perdue, and am in an entirely different state institution, though I imagine much of the legal thinking and policies are the same or similar. Also, I meant to also point out not that the groups are of academic value, but that many are not. Who’s to say that a film club should be funded, but not a religious or ideological group. Students usually pay for such things through fees out of pocket as well, rather than through the grants given to the university.
Purdue actually doesn’t have a student activity fee. Student organizations don’t get any automatic funding, you have to apply for small little grants or raise your own money (mostly the latter). Student Government has tried to pass a fee multiple times, but the student body always votes it down…and even then, the fee includes a clause where no political or religious groups would receive money.Ok, now I’m rambling about Purdue politics and making my own thread go off topic. Bad Jen.
I have to say I am amased that Purdue funded any part of this xtian porn event. Jen, have you actually made enquirers as to the funding sources and who at Purdue green flagged the event?
“12-17 use porn the most.” and “Senior citizens are the highest porn users.” These are not necessarily conflicting statements. I understand that many senior citizens have an extensive daily pharmacological regimen, so porn use while under the influence shouldn’t be too surprising.
I personally do NOT like porn, but it’s not because I don’t like sex. Rather, in my experience, the current juztaposition of the ready availability of the crudest types of porn with the societal taboo on sex is leading to ridiculous expectations of sex in which the woman has to put up with anything and everything the man wants and not say a word of complaint. In our current society, porn is ruining sex, because boys and girls are being exposed to videos in which women (and men) are little more than a few holes to drill. Sad to say, my current boyfriend is the first of six to not have sexual expectation derived almost entirely from watching porn videos in which the woman just does what the man wants. Me saying no to things was a shock to even those who had previously had a girlfriend or two because the guys had learned to expect to be given whatever they wanted and their previous girlfriends had learned that doing so was what SHOULD be happening.Still, none of that would be half the concern it is now if sex and sexuality were a topic that parents felt they could discuss with their children and older siblings, cousins and neighbours could discuss with their younger companions. Even just opening up the possibility for healthy, safe and positive experimentation would be useful. No need to force those who aren’t interested in sex yet into having it, but those who are having it should be given the knowledge necessary to make it a good experience for all parties involved, including contraception and an understanding of sex that goes beyond the massive power imbalance common in porn.
I have to ask the anonymous poster who says that porn is ruining society if they feel the quality of life in Europe is better or worse than USNA’S?
I like your blog and I like your write-up on this event for the most part…but I happen to be staunchly anti-porn. This surprises most people who know me because I’m a liberal individual and a sexy artist-type (also because my sweetie told his buddies I’m the closest thing to a true nymphomaniac he’s ever met).The thing is that I just find porn to be so demeaning to sex. It’s not animalistic–it’s mechanical at best.Also, it makes guys pretty bad in bed, from my experience. No, douchebag, I don’t want you to cum on my forehead. That’s not one of my feel-good places. Take a real anatomy class and don’t be afraid to ask me questions. No, “Can I cum on your forehead?” is not the kind of question I mean.Don’t get me wrong, I love good depictions of sex (I’m thinking HBO’s “Rome”), but the porn industry produces demeaning crap. In summation: equivocating sex and pornography is inaccurate. I’m a sexpot, and I hate porn. It has nothing to do with my comfort level with my own sexuality and everything to do with my love and respect for sex itself.
@mcbender: Unfortunately I am forced to agree with you. There is no way to communicate without a meeting of the minds. I do think this is one reason why religionists’ attempts to talk science (“Intelligent Design,” Christian apologetics) sound so comical. They’re trying to speak our language, but they’re not native speakers, so it comes out as sort of a pidgin. They know the words but not the music.We probably sound the same to them when we try to discredit scripture by quoting scripture. We don’t speak their language very well either. Our mindset can’t be expressed in their dialect any better than theirs can be expressed in ours.
I fully support the idea of Christians not having sex.
Anon – the anti-porn post (wish these were numbered).I think by saying that porn is mechanical at best you are unfairly labelling all porn. Not all porn is the generic crap that floods the market. There are lots of production companies that know what their audiences want and provide very hot sex, if you happen to be into what they do.I agree that lots of men have strange ideas about pleasing their partner but I also have to say that perhaps that means they are just not sexually compatable. Some women actually do like cum shots on various parts of their bodies. Some women like being degraded, some men like the same thing. Some people are kinky, some are not.What I am trying to get at is that some of your complaint about porn seems to be more about personal preferencs about sex, or, and I hope this is not the case, a judgement on what other people’s preferences are. I find it hard to say that one depiction is “good” and another is “bad” because what is good or bad is such a personal choice. Many would dislike much of what I do in my sex life, they would be very unhappy with it, it would be bad sex if I was their partner, but with a like minded person we have lots and lots of fun, and we seem to agree it is good.
Makarios said… I live in South Africa, which has the highest rape stats in the world. Child abuse is an epidemic and our law enforcement is a joke. I also happen to work as a reporter – which can mean knowing the seamier side of life.I don’t know a representative sampling of rapists or peadophiles, so I have to ask the following: Who the heck you are hanging out with, and shouldn’t you maybe find new friends?
To those that think porn is mechanical, maybe you should check out http://www.ifeelmyself.com/pub….Or maybe you shouldn’t.
@ “In our society, porn is ruining sex ….” Perhaps porn is ruining sex the same way “junk food” is ruining diets. Consuming constant junk food will lead to inappropriate attitudes towards food. A sex education based upon nothing but porn will lead to a distorted view of sex. Don’t blame porn for bad lovers. Blame whoever suppressed the knowledge of how to be a good lover. Solution: balance. Keep junk food in moderation in a healthy diet. Keep porn in moderation in a healthy environment of open sexual communication.
“OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES.”Best line in the entire post.
That lovely anonymous bit of hate halfway up the top of the comments is suspiciously lacking in caps lock and typos.
Lol I don’t see what’s wrong with porn really. Porn is actually quite diverse in what it offers up to it’s audience. It surprises me that I am seeing some general statements about pornography being, over all, demeaning to women. I agree that it can be, but any one who watches porn knows that there are these things called categories. I can easily find porn that is pretty egalitarian in the treatment of the sexes, or even porn where the woman dominates. And then there is this whole thing about what is considered demeaning to begin with. Many times people cite depictions of men ejaculating on their partners faces as being demeaning to women. Well, let me ask this: is it demeaning to a man if a woman cums on his face? I think it’s a matter of preference, this area is highly subjective and lets think about it before we make sweeping generalizations about an entire industry by citing our mere taste as evidence. btw cum shots ftw
Btw, yes that was my post above, and yes I am a woman. ;) I just can’t figure out how to use my blog name :P
Not sure if this is gonna show up anonymous or not…Um, Hi. I lurk on PZ’s blog; got sent here by his link.Awesome post!I am confused that Porn is a gateway drug to Child Porn. For me, it was a gateway to the BDSM community, where I found people that accept me for me, share my kinks and believe strongly in communicating about every aspect of sex. Clearly, I took a wrong turn.Porn is a good way to find out what turns your crank. Curious about something? Watch someone else do it! It saves on humiliation, embarassment and the possibility that you won’t be into it half way through. So yeah, I guess in that manner, Porn can lead you to all sorts of shenanigans… but you had to be curious about it in the first place.
Just a technicality here, but: and both sides would engage in the same amount since they need to be doing it with someone, assuming heterosexual sex. Well, not quite. Assume a population of 50 men and 50 women, all paired in monogamous relationships (just to make the math easy). Suppose 49 of the men are faithful, and the last man has had sex at least once with all 50 of the women. In that case, I suppose one could assert that woman were “more likely” to diverge from the monogamous relationship in that quite strange population.Of course, the “statistic” you are disputing is wrong for other reasons, but it didn’t “have to be” wrong because of the reason quoted above. Just a nit. :)
You (original author) think that because of the wide age range (8-16) “the vast majority of those numbers come from the older kids.” Mathematically, with as high a participation rate as 90%, that’s just not possible.If 90% of the population between 8-16 has seen porn, and if the ages are equally distributed (the same number of 8, 9, 10, etc year olds) then at a minimum 55% of 8-9 year olds have seen porn — assuming ALL 10-16 year olds have. And, at a minimum, 77.5% of 8-11 year olds have seen porn — again assuming ALL 12-16 years old have. This is just simple math.
Anonymous,I would like to see where they got the numbers in the first place. Since they couldn’t keep their stats straight with what they presented. First it was teenagers that used the most porn then senior citizens.I think they pulled the 90% of 8-16 from the same place as most of their stats, from their ass.
BeamStalk: That’s a sensible criticism. The criticism made in the original post was not.
Wow. As an agnostic Purdue student, I am somewhat sorry I missed out.
To the anonymous commenter talking about the percentages: You’re totally right. Skew was just my initial reaction and I didn’t actually calculate it out. But I still think 100 percent of older kids versus 55% of younger kids is a significant difference to be hiding, if said difference did exist.But like BeamStalk said, I would like to know where they got that data from, what the sample size for each age group was, etc…
I started at Purdue in 1964. The M/F ratio was 7:1. Porn was about all we had, especially if we were nurdy freshmen, without cars and (in my case) pretty much without a clue. I used to hitchhike down to Bloomington to complete my education. I’m glad Purdue men don’t have to commute so far today; it’s the green, responsible thing to do.Found you on Pharyngula. Glad to be here.Joe
It is unfortunate that children are viewing porn. Not because its morally wrong, but because that’s where some kids are getting their sex education. One million years ago, as a boy, I had access to the Joy of Sex, which I read throughly leaving me with a good, but somewhat dated knowledge of sexuality (and an unnatural appreciation of 70s style haircuts). I can’t imagine how hard it would be to have a healthy sex life as a young person when all of your knowledge of human sexual comes from a Ron Jeremy movie. Religion keeps people in the fold by making them require absolution. What better way to produce guilt than to vilify sexuality, a basic human desire. I would guess that religious people consume just as much porn as non-theists; they just feel worse about it.
Lightening? Seriously?
“SEX CREATES HORCRUXES”Awesome.
> How is it possible for 12-17 year-olds AND senior citizens to be the highest porn users at the same time?It’s perfectly possible if you’re counting in dog years. Hence I conclude that dogs are the biggest users of porn.
@Matt:Gives “dirty dog” a whole new meaning, dunnit?
Excellent post! I never comment but this was exceptional. The horocrux comment had me laughing for a good 20 minutes. We should be friends.
To the Anonymous saying that porn ruins sex because it gives men a false image of women: Does watching anime ruin Japan because it gives you a false image of the country? No. We KNOW it’s fiction. This is a ridiculous argument.
What? Women who don’t want their dudes to watch porn are ‘anti-sex’ now? Ever think that maybe some women porn disturbing for non jesus reasons? I sure as hell do. An ex worked at a porn store so I saw a whole lot of it, and a lot of the women in the movies are obviously high on drugs or really drunk when they are making movies. I am sure a lot of the ones who weren’t high right then had drug problems and could not support their habit without having sex for money. I know what everyone is going to say next- “oh, but its not all of them”. There isn’t any way to tell. You might be beating off to sexual coercion or someone so fucked up that it borders on rape, or someone who has a psychological problem that is being exploited. or hey, you might not, because not *all* of it is bad, right? what other luxury item would people EVER feel ok about using when those are the stakes involved? supporting sexual abuses and exploitation of vunerable individuals? Street prostitutes and trafficked women are not excluded from pornography (ever wonder how some nasty dudes start a production company? thats cheap labor).
@miketheinfidelseriously? http://www.apa.org/pi/wpo/sexu…there you go. that is how it is different than anime. This is seriously hurting people. If americans watching anime is hurting japanese people then yes, that is a problem. Not to mention the countless people uploading amateur pornography of themselves with people they know irl in porn style. People are copying what they see exactly. It is really really disturbing. The post you were replying to was talking about kids also, so I am really skeptical that they “know it is a fantasy”. They are learning from it, could be their first exposure to sex. I really resent having the way that someone might personally disrespect me sexually (because they got their sexual education from pornography) to people not understanding japan when they will most likely NEVER GO THERE. Most people have sex at some point in time so it is a bit more important for people to understand it. Even virgin dudes could get the idea that it is ok to sexually harrass women from what porn contains.
They call his (Jesus) followers sheep for a reason…. Sheep are STUPID! Baaaaaa means Duuuuhhhh.
“OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES.”Oh, yeah. I’m subscribing.
Vainglorious:@ “Perhaps porn is ruining sex in the same way that junk food is ruining diets… blame whoever supressed the knowledge of how to be a good lover”If you’d read my entire comment, especially the last paragraph, you’d see that I said that porn wouldn’t be the issue it is now if discussions of sex even between parents and children weren’t a huge taboo. Porn is ruining sex because it’s all that most children are able to find on the subject of sex and the easiest stuff to find is the mass-produced stuff that treats women as holes, not the artsy stuff that shows an actual loving relationship.Miketheinfidel:@ “we know it’s FICTION”.Actually, most boys who are looking at porn don’t know how much fiction it is. We know anime and manga is fiction because there are discussions about what life is actually like in Japan. Even then, how many 13-16 year old boys and girls do you know that speak almost entirely in manga-ese (kawaii, doku doku, yaoi, yuri, etc) and while they don’t think that giant robots or tentacle monsters invade Japan on a regular basis, they do want to move to Japan to be “free” and be like one of the manga characters? I know at least a few in that age-range and even a few in the 16-20 range. And this is WITH the fact that if you want to find out a bit about Japan, you can ask a teacher or parent. Sexuality is so supressed in most of our society that most teens and young adults have porn as their sole source of information on what sex is like. Sure, they recognize that it’s an exaggeration, but just like kids who think that kids their age in Japan are just running wild all over the place, kids who are watching porn have a really hard time drawing the line where the “fiction” ends and what sex is really like begins. Most simply don’t realize that the woman (or submissive partner) can say no, that she (yes, or he) isn’t always pleased by being pounded into and then given a cum-shot and that sex can be about emotional love as much as the physical act. None of this is evident in the most easily-accesible porn. Does this mean that porn is bad across the board? Of course not… but it does mean that unless or until we start to realize the importance of educating children about healthy sexual relationships, the average porn is damaging to our youth’s sexual culture. Doesn’t mean that porn should be banned, though… I just wish the big porn producers did a few movies where sex is explored rather than just had and until they do, I won’t support them.
I don’t suppose the name of the ex-porn guy was Donny Pauling, was it? He’s an anti-porn “crusader” who does various speaking events. He also trolled Pharyngula a while back, which is how I found out about him.Never heard him speak, but his blog talks about his porn career and all the horrible things he’d done as a producer. As if that went with the territory and was not simply a sign of a bad character.
Anonymous, do you have any actual studies on sexuality in Japanese teenagers? You are making a lot of assertions here.
The only thing I can find is a report from Times in 1993 that pointed out about 25% of US female students age 15 have had sex and 33% of US males the same age have had sex. In comparison to 4% of Japanese female students age 15 and 6% of Japanese male students age 15 have had sex.http://www.time.com/time/magaz…Albeit this was a quick search by me and the study is old.
I don’t suppose the name of the ex-porn guy was Donny Pauling, was it? He’s an anti-porn “crusader” who does various speaking events. He also trolled Pharyngula a while back, which is how I found out about him.I was wondering if it was Donny too. Gettin’ his Jesus on has given him a new career…You might be able to find the threads on gofuckyourself.com (adult web industry Forums) where Donny “came out” about finding Jesus. Needless to say, it’s fairly entertaining.I find these people (Donny, Craig Gross from xxxchurch) who go from being pornslingers to selling salvation, beyond abominable. They made all their money capitalizing on “sin” and now they’re using their marketing skills AND the idea that they’re doing their thing now as some sort of atonement in order to get new members.Pieces of shit!
Heh. http://xxxchurch.com/blogs/the…“Almost every abuse report involves religion” has a good question and point:One question: Why is this particular religious group so obsessed with porn? If you don’t like it, leave it.I bet that hypocrite ugly red haired victim of inbreed beats his meat to gay porn and started this piece of shit cult to compensate his dirty little secret, as all religious figures.Congrats on moving from an honest business to a dirty cult, Donny. Great move. See the link above my post what kind of world it really is.
Hi Jen! (yeah, I’m pretending we’re on a first name basis here) :)I’m another drifter from PZ’s blog – and am also a liberal/geeky/perverted/etc. atheist from the Midwest (South Bend, IN – sadly). I just want you to know that you have seriously endangered my atheist marriage in this post! Not by promoting porn, of course, which my wife and I both enjoy and take advantage of…but by writing the following:”OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES.”After taking that in and abating my laughter, I informed my wife that I simply MUST leave her and seek out this “Jen” from Blah Hag and seduce her. And, in light of the horcrux line, she has agreed wholeheartedly. :)Thanks for being so awesome – I’m bookmarking this blog and will pass the link along to others!
Thanks so much for such a complete overview. I go to Purdue and I’m on the Nontheist club’s mailing list and I REALLY wanted to join up to see it. Unfortunately, I showed up a little late and couldn’t find anyone.
nails and anonymous:If you think porn is bad because it portrays a false image of sexuality, you’d better be against soap operas and romance novels as well.This is just silly.If the porn INDUSTRY harms people, that’s a bad thing. But people WATCHING porn does not cause the harm. And your argument was that watching porn harms the WATCHER and ruins THEIR sexual enjoyment, which is KOOKY.
Way to go son. We’re all real proud of ya. You had the courage and stanima to sit through that and then write about it. I believe you are worthy of the New Athiest Medal of Valor. I must admit though you do have your critics. They say that on the one hand you hammer the xtians for unscientific statements about the troubles porn breeds and on the other, religion is your boogy man and his regard for fidelity is what’s really mess’n us up. Don’t worry though I’m on your side. Superstition
You know they never defined what they view as porn…
Jen, a lot of anger in your post about Christian’s stereotyping atheists as morally bankrupt, etc… and I guess I can understand that. As a Christian, some of the stereotypes sadden me too… like the one expressed frequently that Christians consider sex to be evil. If that’s the message events like this communicate, that is so sad. I actually thought you made some good points when you said:”If conservative Christians didn’t beat over your head that sex was so evil to begin with, people wouldn’t be having these problems. We’d have comprehensive sex education and open dialog about human sexuality so little kids wouldn’t have to turn to the internet for information. We wouldn’t feel guilty for engaging in normal sexual activity. We’d be able to talk about sex with our loved ones before marrying them and finding out they have incompatible viewpoints.”At least in this I think we can agree… Our sexual nature cannot be ignored or totally suppressed. We have to learn to talk about it in healthy ways, and channel it in healthy directions. Now you and I might disagree about what is healthy, but we should be able to talk about it openly and honestly. As a Christian, I believe in the God who invented sex — every part of it! The erect penis, engorged vulva, hardened nipples, the sensations, smells, tastes, the amazing pleasure that rushes through your whole body during orgasm… God invented all of this — and it’s good!!! Most Christians don’t even realize that one of the books in the Bible talks about all of this in very passionate metaphorical language. I believe this powerful experience is supposed to be a profound expression of love that unites two people together for life — not something you share with a multitude of different people as they pass in and out of your life. We may disagree on that point, but at least we can agree that Christians should talk about sex HONESTLY.
There exists porn that I like.There exists porn that I dislike.And, then, there exists porn that I repudiate as impossible to consciously and informatively decide upon whether it may me desirable for one to participate in.”90% of kids age 8 – 16 have seen porn.”Whether skewed, or misread, or misrepresented or not. Please, don’t think that atheists think that it’s okay for pre-pubescent kids to even remotely be exposed to material that would engage somebody’s sick projection of their latent sexuality.Please, acknowledge that we do have common ground, common enemies, and the existence or non-existence of a god is fairly academic.We do have common enemies ( don’t we?)Let’s work on those.Let’s talk about those>
I take it Anonymous is not going to back up their assertions of the sex life of Japanese teenagers. I am shocked.
I think this is an anti porn event went wrong. The intention was right but the outcome disastrous.
This is brilliant. It made my day. Thank you!
Sent the board an email letting them know my thoughts and got a form letter essentially saying that “the info they gave us before the event met our guidelines.” Not sure if that means that after the event they agree it shouldn’t have been what it was, or that, more likely, they don’t really care what they put their name behind to keep interested groups (money) coming in.
You know “science” point #3? That women are more likely to act out on their sexual urges? As you say, it’s a total fallacy, and a perplexing one at that. I mean, how can anyone plausibly deny that men are more sex crazed than women? It’s the testosterone, people.Anyway, I was recently reading about Malleus Maleficarum, the treatise on witches first published in 1487. As most here probably know, women were the ones most often persucuted as witches, because, as the authors write: “all witchcraft comes from carnal lust, which is insatiable in women.”So this blatant lie that women are more sexual than men has a looooooooooong history in Christianity. But let me guess, the organizers of this event claim to only want to protect women, right? From their own wild sexual natures, it would seem.
I think it’s quite an assumption to suggest porn actresses are being coerced. I’m sure there must be some that are. But I also personally know a few, and they actually like their jobs. Nice intelligent people can also work in porn you know.
Some of the horribly inaccurate parts of this column are pointed out in the comments section on Jen’s later post here.
Ever think that maybe some women porn disturbing for non jesus reasons? I sure as hell do. An ex worked at a porn store so I saw a whole lot of it, and a lot of the women in the movies are obviously high on drugs or really drunk when they are making movies. I am sure a lot of the ones who weren’t high right then had drug problems and could not support their habit without having sex for money.I know what everyone is going to say next- “oh, but its not all of them”. There isn’t any way to tell. You might be beating off to sexual coercion or someone so fucked up that it borders on rape, or someone who has a psychological problem that is being exploited. or hey, you might not, because not *all* of it is bad, right? what other luxury item would people EVER feel ok about using when those are the stakes involved? supporting sexual abuses and exploitation of vunerable individuals? Street prostitutes and trafficked women are not excluded from pornography (ever wonder how some nasty dudes start a production company? thats cheap labor).Had you attended this event you might have noticed this is EXACTLY what my points were. The author had an agenda long before attending (read the articles leading up to her attendance) or she’d likely have taking note of such. After recruiting more than 500 first time models into the porn business I can tell you that not one of them ever came back and thanked me. I watched the lights go out in their eyes. I watched normal college girls become hopeless drug users to deal with the pain. I was slick: we’d start them off with softcore projects, get them used to making easy money, and lead them down a path. It was very easy to do, especially with today’s attitudes towards porn (just look at the comments here: it’s all perfectly okay, right?) It’s really too bad Jen didn’t come with open ears, instead of an agenda motivated by the “awesome blog post” she envisioned writing.
Excellent points Donny. It was good to read your comments on the other post too and get the ‘other side’ of the story.
Annoyed by girls who immediately say “porn is bad” when they date some jerk who is too goddamn stupid to have empathy for her and expects her to let him “cum on her forehead” or whatever other kinky act without consideration for her wants.Find a different boyfriend. It isn’t porn’s fault that you dated FIVE GUYS who didn’t jive with you. It’s the fault of their parents for not raising them to be empathetic and socially aware, for not teaching them that to give is to receive.My boyfriend didn’t grow up watching a ton of porn. He might *hope* for some more out-there things but he sure as fuck doesn’t expect me to deliver, or think it’s his right to get to replay his favorite scenes. Why? Because he was raised with empathy and intelligence.In short: a guy (or girl) who is just being an asshole is going to be an asshole whether he likes porn or not. We’re sorry it’s ruined it for you, but you should maybe rethink your reasoning.
Also?Donny — you’re a fucking predator. For those of us who don’t believe in god, your claim that you’ve been saved doesn’t change anything. You’re still a fucking skeev.
Donnie, you spend a lot of time in the other thread accusing people of putting words in your mouth. Pot meet kettle.She doesn’t believe your stories, you don’t present any proof, and it smells like BS to her. Then you come in here and say “OH YOU DIDN’T LISTEN TO MY POINTS”. No it sounds like she heard you and doesn’t believe you.We get it Donnie, you were a real asshole in those days and now you found Jesus and are a model person. Now you’re mad because someone doubts your story?-Andy
And Just to clarify, here’s what Jen said about you.They then brought out a former porn producer to talk about how he saw the light, quit the porn industry, and became a Good Christian. Every story he told didn’t shed any light on the evils of porn – it just showed that he was a giant douche bag. He cheated on his wife multiple times before even getting started in porn. He secretly was a porn producer for 3 years without his wife’s knowledge, and then when she found out, she left him. It’s not porn that ruined your marriage – it’s that you’re a lying dick who was duping your wife. He then went on and on about how he ruined all of these women’s lives and tricked them into porn, how in between shoots they would curl up in the fetal position and suck their thumb, how they needed surgery to correct the sexual things he made them do. I’m going to call Bull Shit on all of this, but even if it was true, that just further reflects on the guy’s character, not porn – he’s a giant insensitive ass.Ok, so she says that you made a big story about how much of how big a jerk you were. And here’s what you say:After recruiting more than 500 first time models into the porn business I can tell you that not one of them ever came back and thanked me. I watched the lights go out in their eyes. I watched normal college girls become hopeless drug users to deal with the pain. I was slick: we’d start them off with softcore projects, get them used to making easy money, and lead them down a path. It was very easy to do, especially with today’s attitudes towards porn (just look at the comments here: it’s all perfectly okay, right?) You say you were a huge douche, you reflect on your own actions, but not others (your story about your ex in the porn store is pure speculation).Your representations don’t contradict eachother. Jen heard you talking about being slimey and said it sounded like BS. You talk about being slimey and get mad that she questions it.-Andy
You guys have so much anger over one man admitting he was wrong and trying to make right! I find it incredible really. Stop and ask yourselves where all this anger is coming from… Could it be that you don’t like the implications of his insight into the porn industry? Perhaps you just don’t want your conscience troubled by knowing that your next orgasm could come at the expense of someone else’s suffering??I haven’t been reading this blog for long, but it’s obvious Jen has a particular dislike of ignorant religious zealotry… Ironic then how the worshipers of porn seem to all block their ears when someone from the industry actually breaks through the fantasy with a few unpleasant realities.
Oh this is a fantastic post! I provide counselling and support to guys who struggle with porn, and I often come up against moralising nonsense like this. The trouble is, if you start searching Google for support and answers to your unwanted porn habit, Christian sites and forums rank very highly due to evangelical support networks. Some have blatant Christian overtones (such as XXXChurch) but others don’t introduce the preaching factor until you have signed up to their course or joined the group. For non-Christians legitimately seeking advice, this can be very demotivating.
Excellent. You had me in fits at the Horcruxes thing, it was just oh so unexpected. And man I really want to go to one of those things at my Uni, if they are really that hilarious, I will have to start an atheist group, cept isn’t that huge a deal in aus, but I have noticed flyers for the porn/christian ditty. XO
Please stop porn and prostitution now. Porn leads to prostitution in many cases for money. Most of the women are surgically altered. Some are fixed that makes them look thinner than normal women. They are fake. Porn also leads to child sexual abuse, relationship problems, child prostitution, murder, some porn heads are killers and it leads to more problems in our already fake society. All of the women in fashion magazines are airbrushed. We need real women and quality magazines. Just say no to porn it ruins lives!! Thanks so much for your cause. God bless you. Save the nuclear family now. Prostitutes carry flesh eating bacteria that is incureable. They also are charged by the state and federal government where all thier assets are eventually seized so they never really get to keep the money. Spread the word world wide now.
… Either Anonymous above is going for the greatest Poe ever, or he/she must’ve spent hours dredging up every canard and silly claim ever used against porn in history.Such an effort is almost commendable.
This is true. We did church ministry to the hookers in jail via us postal mail. They all had the same stories. Stop the insanity America. Save yourselves now.
The porn industry is organized crime. Anony 1 is correct.
Dude, you’re totally turning this thread into a perversion of nature. Mind sloughing off? kthxbai
See, Jen, this is why Blogger comments sucks and IntenseDebate (or, at the limit, Disqus) rules. Site-wide moderation, insta-delete, people have to give a name before commenting (no more “Anonymous”) unless they specifically write it in), plus banning options. Sweeter than sugar pie.
And therefore, in conclusion, it is neither one side nor the other that will win or lose this debate. Both will be suffocated by the mental vacuum present in the previous 14 Anonymous comments. Que sera sera, and the world turns ever on.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at, Mr. Anonymous. If you’re trying to prove that you’re a prick, that’s fine and good, but if you have a legitimate point to make I’ve yet to see it.Either stop being vulgar and contribute something to the discussion, or get lost.
Dear Jen, I dunno if you’ve noticed, but you got a bit of a spam-troll infestation, here. Get out the flamethrower, I’ll deal with the oil.
As well as the Horcrux thing, I really loved the “Life is a gateway drug” line. Which I propose to steal, fence, invest offshore and generally exploit to the best of my ability. In my misspent youth I used to be a religionist, and can confirm from inside knowledge that crusading speakers just make stuff up. Including but not limited to how naughty they used to be. Is it not the case that both porn producers and preachers are producing for a market, both have to give the punters what they want? Public repentance might thus be what an entrepreneur and showman does when too old for porn, or after a business failure? A man’s gotta eat. I, by the way, am a friend of Dwasifar and followed the link from his page. FYI: Every time I’ve posted (a little on some other threads, I get the following message in red: “Your request could not be processed. Please try again”. So I do, and it works the second time.
@Hugo Grinebiter:I assume you operate from the sad realms of Internet Explorer? The “request could not be processed” glitch is inherent to those who comment on Blogger from IE. Used to do it to me all the time, yet since changing to Firefox (which you have no good reason not to), hasn’t done it once since.
@Joé: Not guilty, Your Honour — I’m on Safari 4.
No thanks porn fags. Your dick is too small, it smells funny from fucking too many used up diseased infested whores and kids. You suck. You have no teeth from fucking Mexican kids. You smell and have diseases. Go fuck eachother up the asshole. Fugly losers. That is all you could get. Die now.
You Loser GAGS. Got teeth??
http://theokporn.blogspot.com/
Porn is evil? Cool! I’m evil now! :DCome over to teh darksideh~~ We haev cookies >:3Oh yeah one more thing; Everyone knows that Opera owns all the other browsers hahahahah XD
Got curious as to how fucking Mexican kids makes you lose teeth…I’ve actually never liked porn. Not because it’s evil, rather because I rank it among them soaps and strange romantic movies that create a fiction I can never have in life. You know the kind were princess meets smelly beggar and lives happily ever after?Good article though. I may disagree with some of your conclusions (and agree with others) but it is a nice read.
Fuck everybody. Go have plastic surgery act and look like a porn star. Watch porn and jack off. Fucking losers.
No fuck you fake ass Barbie bitch u aint even real dumb bitch we luvs kids u go be a pile of shit. We aint gonna be dumb ass.
There is no excuse for rape but, porn can get them aroused and they may not be able to find a cure so they commit a crime. That does not make it ok for them to do so.
Unable to find a cure? The meme that “Real Men don’t wank” has a lot to answer for.
Fuck you Huhoe jump a cliff fag. Airbrush your balls and take a photo for your gay lover to put on your tombstone jack off.
Excuse me. I am looking for an online Mensa blog meeting. Is this the right thread?
Fuck this shit. Porn is made by fucktard fags. Real women have smaller twats and look way better. Porn is just trash like the people that put it out sluts. Real hot sex is better with real people fags.
Hey porn fucks fuck you you fucking fucks. We hate your sleezy asses.
Die porn fags. Real women don’t look like your shitty trash.
I am sorry that you believe that woman who oppose porn are anti-sex or “uptight”. This is a lie perpetuated by men to silence women. Apparently you fell for it, I am surprised to see that you have labeled yourself a feminist. I am also an atheist, and a feminist, I believe the Christian anti-porn movement is harmful in many ways, but the anti-porn movement is not. There are many educated, strong, non-christian, pro-sex individuals who oppose pornography on valid grounds. There was a time when people criticized those that objected to slavery too. It takes a very strong woman to take a stand against something so normalized by our culture. I am anti-porn and I love sex. Porn is not sex. It is filmed prostitution. There is nothing sexual about it. I encourage you to further educate yourself on this issue. Instead of going to silly Christian events full of propaganda, try reading actual studies and books such as “In Harm’s Way” this book documents The Pornography Civil Rights Hearings. You have an obligation as a woman touting the title feminist to educate yourself.
It is prostitution. I am a man and I hate that filthy shit.
Thank you. I think it is important that more men, as well as women come forward, and speak out against it.
You seem to be having some problems with making up your own definitions for words and the assuming that we should use your definitions rather than the correct ones. Prostitution is sex. Porn is sex (Or at least pretend sex, or random pictures of people you find attractive, or written depictions of erotically charged situations, etc.).Why don’t you provide a complete, all-encompassing definition for porn, and then explain how your definition doesn’t include your own memories of the sexual acts you claim to enjoy. It will be entertaining to see you move the goalposts for that one.I also highly doubt that you truly enjoy sex, since you clearly seem to think that all depictions of sexual acts are immoral. But then, you’re a religious fanatic, like all of the second-wave (ie. ignorable) feminists.
The BEST THING about this comment thread is how many people are posting as “Anonymous”. It makes it seem like one random person having the mother of all arguments with themself!
If poser there agrees with cheap porn than it should go buy it. We are not. Who wants to look at a bunch of fixed lezbos? If you like to do that or want manly women have fun jacking off. They will never give you any fag. Oh and you suck.
Wow. We anons have managed to put a lot of spelling mistakes in that last comment.As for porn. Anything that turns you on is porn. That includes the love letter your significant other sent you the other day, your memories of things you’ve done with them, any pictures you might have (Whether or not they are sexual or even explicit). Any written material describing romantic/sexual situations, any pictures of any attractive person. Any erotic artwork. The kinds and varieties of porn that fill the world is a wonderful thing, and it adds up to greatly increase the overall happiness in the world.Humans are visual creatures, and to suggest that you don’t enjoy the sight of two people having sex basically implies that you don’t enjoy watching yourself have sex. And if that’s the case, then I feel extremely, horribly sorry for you.
“to suggest that you don’t enjoy the sight of two people having sex basically implies that you don’t enjoy watching yourself have sex”But how many of us watch ourselves having sex from a few feet away? I’ve done it with ceiling mirrors and stuff, but without my glasses it’s wasted on me. Videoed self. never. And I don’t think I would want to watch myself in that sense. Is there porn featuring unattractive middle-aged men? Didn’t think so.
Hughoe see why you are nuts. Porn is fake. How can that be attractive? If they are going to do it it should be real or not at all. The world is at stake. You must be a porn dude. What gives?
Right, because if there’s one thing we can trust, it’s that violent criminals are scrupulously honest with themselves and others, particularly when it comes to assigning blame for their actions.
Lightning Jen, NOT lightening – unless you want to imply enlightening…? Yes I am a pedant. Sorry!
“Creating a problem and then claiming to solve it seems to be a common tactic for these people” yeah, its called ‘crucify and resurrect’… its archetypal – for there to be heroes (whether religious or scientific) there needs to be something to ‘overcome’. (waving hello to the atheists from over here on the pantheist side)
great post… wish I’d found this blog earlier.*sigh* porn is too huge an issue – too heavy, too involved with structure, culture, technology and philosophy (let alone religion or science)… it actually feels good to laugh about it, even if I do feel bad about it afterward.
A couple of thoughts to consider:–amateur porn is killing commercial porn. Commercial porn took hold in an era of scarcity almost unimaginable to today’s under-30s.l If you wanted to create your own porn, there weren’t many options beyond the Polaroid camera. Videotape cracked the door open, and digital cameras and the Internet blew the roof off. Uncountable millions of couples are creating and -sharing- homegrown erotica–featuring people of all ages, shapes, sizes, and propensities. And one step up from all the people doing it for fun and for free are tens of thousands of women and couples engaged in the kind of ‘cottage industry’ entrepreneurial porn only possible in the digital era. If the old-style “porn industry” were swept out of existence tomorrow, it would hardly be missed. You could still spend all weekend browsing through the nekkid pitchurs on Flickr and never be in danger of running out of material. The evils of the stereotyped porn industry are irrelevant–its day is over. Ordinary people are reclaiming porn for themselves, and making it joyful, personal, and honest. No drugs, coercion, or plastic surgery required.–if in fact working in the porn industry (or in prostitution, since some insist on equating them) damages some of the people who end up there, it’s hardly the only occupation you can say that about. Coal mining damages miners. Professional football damages players. Working on an assembly line, or next to a blast furnace, or between the rows of a cotton field–I don’t need to go on, do I? LOTS of jobs damage and demean and drive some people to drugs and drink. People keep doing those jobs, though, when those are the best alternatives in front of them–because there’s this little matter of survival in an unforgiving world. Only sexism and Puritanism can explain thinking that a porn actress has it worse than a coal miner.
What an GREAT post. I’m also a liberal, atheist, feminist, geeky, nerdy, perverted scientist at Purdue. It makes me so happy to know that there are pockets of sex positiveness on campus. Rock on! Not sure if you’ve seen this already but as a scientist, I thought you might also appreciate this: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_…
You’re personal anecdote about all the sexual predators you hang out with does not count as a citation.
I was at Purdue between 87 and 91.I had sex once right on the stairs on the side of Slayter stage.Now, after hearing about this event, I kind of feel dirty about it…I shared the stage with these morons? Uggh…
This is the exact reason why I, personally, am just not that big of a fan of porn. I every now and again watch MAYBE a little bit, but that’s it. If somebody ELSE wants to watch it, fine by me; it’s their life, why should *I* interfere with THEIR self-love?The main reason I’m not a fan of porn is because, honestly, I’m one of those feminists. Pretty much the only FREE, readily available images of the vulva/vagina (other than medical drawings) are images from porn. Around 15 or so (way back in 2006), I was curious and looked to try and find out what other ones looked like. At the time, all I could find were medical drawings and porn pictures. Of course, this was before the whole “vulva love” thingy emerged on the internet, so it’s probably a bit better now. Luckily, I had enough sense to think ‘man, those things look weird; mine looks FINE’ and just move on. But now I’ve recognized that the vast majority of porn stars (or, at least, the ones that you can find for free online, since I’m too much of a cheapskate to bother actually BUYING porn, considering how rarely I bother with it) are cast as such because they have a specific vagina type (and big boobs; we mustn’t forget teh boobiez).So, since sex is so taboo in society, young girls don’t really have any way to explore what should be considered “normal” in terms of their genitals ((because, seriously, are you going to ask your friends– or worse, your MOM- “hey, what’s your hoo-ha look like?’)). Since there’s no real way to find out, you ask Teh Almighty Internet Gods, who will provide you with lovely pictures of vaginas– nice, perfect little porn star vaginas, or lovely little medical diagrams. So, girls (and young women) base their “normal” genital image on a completely screwy one– which is the special kind of vagina that is cast for the role of porn star. Heck, several of my friends had screwy body perceptions until I introduced them to a bunch of the sex-positive and feminist websites on the internet.That’s my only beef with porn- It’s the only readily available source of vulva images, so it gives young women seriously screwy notions and body images.A bunch of the amateur porn that’s popping up doesn’t have that problem, so I’m perfectly fine with it. But, like I said earlier, if other people want to watch it, they can HAVE AT. I just don’t think it’s right for me.
I’m not defending the comments of these people, as I wasn’t there–while I’m guessing your journalistic efforts had the objectivity of a Sean Hannity special, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of the presenters weren’t exactly nuanced, science-driven geniuses. I’ve been a Christian my whole life and am aware of the fact that churches can at times be just as closed-minded as any other people group.That said, are you really going to defend porn as natural and a part of sex? You said that a wife who doesn’t want her husband to watch porn is “anti-sex.” That’s quite a reach. You think it’s uptight for a woman to prefer that her husband focus his sexual energies on her and not a fake, silly, exaggerated, and extreme picture of sex that’s not based in reality, which can give him skewed expectations? Porn addiction is rarely, if ever, a normal part of a healthy long-term relationship.Are you really, as a feminist, going to claim that porn is respectful to women and not exploitative? That it’s just a coincidence that there’s by far more drug abuse and emotional problems in the porn world than average, and that the overwhelming majority of actresses come from broken homes, mental/emotional/sexual or physical abuse, or are emotionally stable? I highly doubt you need to see the statistics to prove that.
I came to this site because of the boobquake initiative, and the the way you wrote about it in a nuanced, thoughtful and witty way. This piece on the other hand is the opposite of that. It is reactionary and based in no scientific evidence. As someone who has a masters degree in journalism, I know that there not only is there significant research that shows many of the negative outcomes of both sex and violence in media, particularly on children, but I am also familiar with these outcomes from my knowledge of local organizations that help women get out of the sex trade as well as from the personal experience of having friends who were victims of incest. When the Dallas Observer wrote a similarly unsubstantiated fluff piece in support of strip clubs in the area, a local DAllas non profit responded with the actual hard facts: that the majority of the women have concurrent drug abuse problems that stemmed from them having to be high in order to participate in the industry as well as incest abuse histories. There have been several studies of women prostitutes that have found that drug use followed, not preceeded their work in the industry and developed as a result of them needing to be high in order to denigrate and sell themselves. As for my friends with incest histories, the one that has haunted me the most was a friend who was violently abused as far back as her first childhood memory, most of which involved her dad driving her to the Tripple X video store and then raping her over and over afterwards. There is a science based argument you are missing here, and more importantly one of the spirit and soul – not fundamentalist puritanism, that is equally misguided as your argument. There’s nothing wrong with being open about your sexuality as long as it occurs in a way where your soul remains in tact. Having sex with thousands of men for pay is not an emotionally healthy, emotionally sustainablely, soulful way to move through this world. By writing such a flipant, unsubstantiated, unsoulful, thougtless, reckless article, you have in your own way contributed to the personal hell that millions of children in the sex industry experience on a minute by minute basis. Go and read, really read about those children’s experiences… being forced into prostitution as a child, sometimes just out of toddlerhood… or the fourteen year old girl who was recently found working in a US strip club… or the real research on this issue. and then maybe you will have earned the right to write something on a subject and realize that words have power, both good and bad.
“Are you really, as a feminist, going to claim that porn is respectful to women and not exploitative?”Porn is a rating, not a genre. There are genres of porn that are very respectful to female dignity and considerate of female pleasure, and there are genres of porn that are misogynistic and androcentric.
Jen, this was a fantastic blog. Linking some people to this. However, edit this paragraph- “When this anti-porn Christian group went to a porn convention, everyone their (there) loved and accepted them. Therefor(e) they’re doing the right thing. Could you imagine a Christian convention accepting a porn group?”
wow, blogger you are uninformed and blind to the necessities of development not only in the individual but also in the collective, ie, a society. Come back when you have something unbias and useful for people to read aside from a personal opinion that fails in the rationale department.Its too bad you don’t in fact know what porn is, otherwise you might be able to write a decent article about how it does in fact affect culture as a whole rather than blabbing on about what you “assume” and “perceive” to be the problems.
Everyone in jail for child molesting has molested children. So jail must be the cause of child molesting.
Very interesting post, which shows that any discussion that perhaps needs to be had regarding the pros and cons of the Porn Industry is hindered by extreme (and extremely stupid and base) rhetoric such as that spouted at this Anti-Porn event.
Yup, another one of those people that has stumbled upon your blog because of the recent “boobquake” news. I myself am a liberal, geeky, atheist, feminist.While, I certainly agree that all of those people are misguided and spreading a pretty dangerous message (especially about the protective sex thing omggg); however, I am taking your post with a grain of salt too. While I readily acknowledge that porn is not the creation of the devil (lol)- I’m not inclined to say that it can not have a negative impact on some. I don’t think porn is inherently good or bad. It could potentially help, but it could potentially hurt.As well I have to completely disagree with your sentence, “And with the people who did have bad experiences with porn, those were all caused BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION.” I myself have had bad experiences with porn and dislike it… being an atheist growing up in an atheist family… It’s pretty damn fair to say it has nothing to do with my religion. There are some other ingrained nurture&nature things that have contributed to it.To share more than you (potentially) care to read- I use to believe I was asexual (age 14 or so), which there is a growing community of online. As well, I did actually stumble upon porn at the age of 9 or so… and it bothered me. Experiences like that made me even more uncomfortable with my sexuality. But through dating, I’ve discovered that it is simply that I need to have a strong, emotional connection with the person in order to be comfortable expressing my sexuality with them (as well I think I was just a late bloomer in general). Obviously, I’m not going to have an emotional connection with people in porn videos. I just wanted to throw my two cents in and say that there are those without religious ties that don’t really like porn.
Blaghag: Your first point (1.) suggests to me that your own rationality has been blurred by YOUR beliefs. Assuming a uniform spread of ages and the most extreme skew possible – that the 90% of 8-16 year olds consists entirely of the older children, then that would be the equivalent of 100% of 8.8 to 16 year olds. And in that case, the statement 100% of 9 to 16 year olds would have more shock value. Clearly then the idea that they are somehow trying to take advantage of skew to cause shock is just an indication of how hard you are trying to say how silly/wrong they are…. Now if they didn’t say what “population” the statistic is referring to then that is probably a better basis for criticism. Such a statistic must have been obtained by sampling and is only valid given a fair sample and only for the population the sample is taken from and only then with certain degrees of confidence….Anyway, I suppose my main question is: is it really worth your time and effort attending this kind of thing, arguing against it and blogging about it. Wouldn’t your energy be better directed in positive ways demonstrating a more enlightened existence?Of course, the same can be said of me reading this blogpost and writing this comment! (-:
Talking and reading about porn makes me want to look at porn. If I went to an anit pron rally I’d probably get so wound up that I’d run home and log on to some kinky website, and flog myself. Maybe porn isn’t even the real problem here. I think the real problem might be that talking about porn makes people want to indulge in or experiment with porn. This is a slippery slope that begins with dialogue and lead to……
Hey, way to buy into the gateway fallacy, good work.
I totally enjoyed reading this blog and support it completely, plus I thought that part bout Horcruxes was hilarious.
wulfrich – well said.It is highly interesting how the main stream tirade about porn is almost entirely ignoring how many otherwise normal people/couples are enjoying creating and sometimes sharing their own porn.
I used to use all the same arguments about legalizing marijuana, but then I realized that I was high. This whole fight is a bit misguided. Porn is protected by the constitution, so the huge majority of it should be allowed to fester. Why should the state have any part in this discussion? End Federal dictatorship!
Obviously you haven’t taken a basic statistics class. Even in a high school level course they teach you how to manipulate the data to your viewpoint so badly that someone just looking at the statistics could come up with the same solution. You’re obviously using an assumption of normal distribution, which equally spreads it out on a bell curve. However, the more likely assumption is that it is oriented so the right side of a curve is the larger one. The assumption of normal distribution has not been given with the data, so using a normal distribution formula would not apply in this situation.
Exactly
masturbation counts??? There’s two types of people… those who admit to masturbating and those who lie about it.
Rule 34: There is porn of it, no exceptions.Rule 25: If no porn is found at the moment, it will be made.http://encyclopediadramatica.c…
I loled, guys. Funny blog is Funny.As a young woman who uses porn on a regular basis, for both masturbation and laughs, I don’t see any problem with either side of these arguments as long as both sides are comfortable leaving out large parts of the porn industry. The people who hate it just haven’t seen anything that they like, and the people who love it just ignore the things that they don’t like.So if you don’t like porn, or this blog, GTFO, because it’s NOT written to change your mind, it’s written FOR MY LAUGHTER.It’s actually kind of like that anti-porno production, since it didn’t offer any *real* conversion tactics. It only had stories to help “strengthen the belief of others”, which is something you have to have before it can be strengthened.
Hey Jen! I must say I did enjoy this read. I consider myself Christian as well, but I am just as easily made uncomfortable when the more vigilant ones hold up signs of dead babies telling women that life is the only choice, or that a murderous baby-eating Christian is far more trustworthy than a neighborhood watching, shelter volunteering, soccer mom atheist. I’m sorry, but I will be the first to say that many of the more zealous spiritualists of any religion seem to lose sight of the core purpose of religion (to walk in love and generosity) in an effort to prove their righteousness and spread their word. Sharing your opinion is all good and well…but listening is nice too, and both sides could stand to learn something if we’re all as flawed as the most vocal Christians are so quick to point out.I personally don’t have a positive relationship with porn, but I also agree that it isn’t porn’s fault. I used to enjoy it in a healthy regard, within the borders of an understanding relationship. Things happened in life. I got rocky, and somehow, that’s the small vine I found to cling hold off. That’s all me. Really, thank goodness I had SOMETHING to get hooked on, right? Lol, anyway…I just wanted to say that from my own perspective as a Christian, I respect your opinions because you do so well at presenting them without being combative or demeaning. And I’ve yet to get the feeling that, even in not agreeing with me, you would consider me insane for my own opinions.I mean, S/He could be an invisible plate of spaghetti for all we know, right? Lol. Blog on, gal. Blog on.
Oh yeah, I forgotten about those masturbation comments. Thanks for reminding me. I meant to ask…what the hell did she mean by masturbation being a greasy glass of water?!? Please, did anyone else get that???
WowI was interested in your post, to see how you might enlighten the blog writer.I noticed that you didn’t offer any information, merely insults.Tell us, then, what Porn is, and share your references.Please elucidate us how best to be informed of and no longer blind to the necessities fo developments of not only the individual but of the collective. (society) Please use your credentials rather than your anonymous initials (which do remind me of “Wizz”, something I do after too much beer.)I look forward to an interesting list of positive critiques, valuable suggestions, and just a little bit moreunderstanding in your next post.
My grandmother would say, “That’s not very Christian of you.” But sadly, she’d be wrong, wouldn’t she?
This was really hilarious. I’m a Christian man, my wife is a Christian too. We frequently watch and heck, share porn (We used to have separate files for our porn but we like so much of the same stuff we realized that we had both downloaded some of the same movies, waste of space). Point being, we would never have been so close and intimate if we had kept our fetishes to ourselves. My wife read this as well and couldn’t stop laughing when she read the part about “women being made to receive”. I think I’ll be getting it tonight. Not complaining, taking turns is one reason our love life is so fantastic! :P
Maybe it was supposed to refer to purity? Touching your sex parts makes them “dirty”?
People… please. Please. Don’t feed the troll.
I live to mock religion. Reading this made me want to listen to Type ‘O’ Negative “Christian Woman”. I agree, all of this entire thing was ridiculous. I wish I could have been there. I’d have been kicked out for sure. But not before trying to get into the pants of a few of the girls. “The Kingdom of Heaven shall enter you from below, sweetheart.” Blasphemy should have been my middle name.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air. Wife and I were both ordained ministers at one time, became intellectually honest, realized that there is a creative influence in the Universe but it sure isn’t what we were led to believe. We have lived a pretty open life since then, and these arguments the Xians used are pretty much all the ammunition they have. Guilt, guilt-by-association, ad hominem pathos — but nothing that makes them look in the mirror and see that everything that is there is really based on their making poor choices. All Abrahamic religions share the same sex hangups, based, in part, on a relationship that started with Abraham when God said “Give me a piece of your dick!” (circumcision, to those who don’t get it). From that time on one’s sexuality for those who live that ethos isn’t yours anymore, it’s defined by a power outside yourself. You’ve given your power away, which makes one, uh…impotent. Sorry, I couldn’t say it any other way. BTW, you are one smart, wise-cracking, good-looking woman. Where were the girls like you when I was in school? Oh, that’s right, I went to a Bible College…oops. Thank God (sorry!) my current wife is exactly what I didn’t know I needed. Helps to have someone who “gets” it on-board to make sense of life.
And what about the other 99.999% of people that looked at porn and didn’t molest children? That doesn’t count for anything I imagine. Did these psycho’s also eat cereal before they molested children? Because maybe the cereal did it.I wonder what proportion of child-molesting priests read the bible before or after abusing kids. All of them? Maybe we should control that bible thing. It seems to be linked to child abuse.Or maybe, just maybe, it’s because they are psychopaths to begin with, and what they read or looked at had nothing to do with it.The reality is that virtually the entire male population, and the vast majority of the female population, looks at porn, or has looked at porn and don’t become child molesters.
You aren’t supposed to “screw as much as possible”… God wants to you to raise happy healthy children so that they can grow up to be devout Christians who also love and respect their community and environment. Having sex with randoms and becoming pregnant does not achieve this goal. Marriage is present to fulfill natural pair-bonding and support systems. Screwing everyone doesn’t enable you the best resources to raise your child as you won’t know who the father is so your support system is flawed rright off the bat. I’m all for single parenting if they can handle it but I know then when I’m birthing my first child and for at least the four hours afterward I will want someone to fetch me food as I won’t be capable of doing it myself. Parenting is a team effort, whether male-female or whatever… Support is needed.
I believe that the idea is that porn is a slippery slope. For example, vanilla porn only gets the job done for so long. Next you need some sort of hardcore bondage stuff to get the job done. Then you get into something harder and harder until you end up at child porn.
Really Joe?? Really??? Then there is something horribly wrong with me. After 30+ years of porn I still like big boobs and a hot ass, no kiddy fiddling, no hot and juicy bestiality, no big boy daisy chain action. I still prefer to make more love than I do have sex (I think there is a very real difference) and still have more “batting practice” than everything!! All that and I can still walk past a group of catholic school girls without having to fight off rape urges. Is this because I haven’t accepted jebbers as my personal saviour? Probably.
(Laumann et al 1994 found that 25% of married men and 15% of married women had an extramarital affair at some point in their marriage.)Or maybe, they found that women are in fact the actual liers. If the percentage is correct, my opinion is that most WOMEN IN FACT LIE. —Thanx for reading my post ;)
(Laumann et al 1994 found that 25% of married men and 15% of married women had an extramarital affair at some point in their marriage.)But if…. Someone had to ask in the first place, I think that most WOMEN IN FACT ARE THE LIERS. — Thanks for reading ;) (For the record I like women more too)
Actually, there is: Heathens (followers of the Old Norse gods– Odin, Thor, that bunch) actually pride ourselves on our rationality.Hilarious from one standpoint, I know, but for some reason it works. Tell us something unlikely as a statement of fact (“Climate change is a hoax,” for example) and you’d better be prepared to have solid scientific evidence to back up your claim, because if everything that we observe ourselves tells us otherwise, we aren’t going to believe you just because you’re holding a nice leather-bound best-seller while you say it. ;-) We pride ourselves on rational thought and not being sheep.It means that trying to get a bunch of Heathens to agree to anything is rather like herding cats lol, but it is one actual real religion that actually IS about asking questions and thinking for oneself. As a bonus we’re all about equality and respecting the environment too. ;-)
The funny thing is that, whether you think there’s no god or a bunch of them, the response to Christian fanatics tends to be exactly the same, and for the same reasons… :DI don’t buy that about 8-17-year-olds being the heaviest users of porn. I honestly can’t see how anyone who has parents watching over their shoulders and a curfew have the CHANCE to see more porn than those of us who can stay up til 3 am looking at it, ha ha ha.Those seniors though… XDPorn evil? In and of itself (and excluding crap like kiddie porn), hell no. Telling people of other or no faiths that they can’t do stuff that is against YOUR religion? Hell yes!*waves to the atheists and the fellow polytheist*
Just a quick tip for future reference: To estimate the size of a crowd, back off until you can see all of it. Hold up your hand at arms length, and count how many people (roughly) you’re covering up. Then count how many hands it takes to cover the whole crowd.It isn’t accurate, but it is a very good estimate, and also very good for estimating the size of a crowd quickly, even if it’s milling about.Man, I don’t know if I would have spent the time laughing hysterically or raging. XD Good on you for checking it out for us!Heeeey, waitaminute… wasn’t there some Christian thing about someone doing something unpleasant so the rest of us didn’t have to? ;-)
http://www.somethingpositive.n…(online web comic and how I found my way here)Hahaha…
Shout louder and insist you’re right? *eyeroll* Gods know some of them seem to think it works that way, ha ha ha…
Sadly, though, the expectation that women should just shut up and do whatever the man wants isn’t new. I’ve seen a booklet given out to school girls in the ’50’s or so (I think in Britain) which says outright that it’s her duty to not take long in the bathroom primping (he doesn’t want to have to wait), or go to bed in curlers and cold cream (i.e. look good; he’s had a long hard day and doesn’t want to see that), have sex whenever he wants regardless of how you feel about it, and that if he wants you to do any of the more uncommon positions and you don’t want to, you ought to register your disapproval by doing exactly what he wants and just not saying anything.Swear to god. I’ll post the link here if I can track it down again.
Here it is. I just uploaded the pic of it.http://tinyurl.com/2cldd9qIt’s just a jpeg.
If magazines count then I had at about that age. Every neighbourhood has at least one older brother with porno mags, and a nosey younger sibling. Hell, I remember being showed a pic of a topless woman that one poor older brother had taped up to the INSIDE of his closet door and still failed to hide from his little brother. lolPlus, there were the anonymous stashes of old porno mags in the woods behind our houses. XD Thanks to the classified, for years I thought that anyone over the age of 20 was so decrepit that they had to use a swing to have sex. Completely failed to grasp that they might be using it for other reasons, ha ha ha, but the ad copy was suggesting it as an aid for those with bad knees or something. XD
I do not agree with what these conservative Christians are saying, but I do respect their opinions. It doesn’t make sense to me why someone would go there with the intention of mocking them. I’ve noticed that a large majority of atheists think that have something to prove against theists, but in the end they end up being no better than the evangelists who stand out CL50 and tell people they are going to hell.
You seem pretty smart , but way too obsess with the religious topic. Is stupid . Is like you just want to stand out because of it . I’m not very religious myself ,but I don’t go “bragging” about it. I guess I don’t have to agree with you in everything. Obviously, on the sex topic I’ll be fan. I love porn so I have no problem with it . Well , I guess if I read your page. You won anyway. PS I love girls from IN lol
pretty good read
Wow…….I enjoyed that WAY too much guys. Hypocritical Christians just KILL me. And if I laughed any harder about those ex-porn people, my Cpt. would have been kicking my butt. It reminds me of all those times we would carry a flag covered casket to its final destination……….and the “christians” were there with signs to protest. Ugh, anyway, good story.
All the arguments that I want to give to you are here…Just watch!!!
Betty Bowers explains what the bible says God wants very clearly
If I was 30 years younger…you rock.
Jen,When I read “OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES.” . . .I ALMOST DIED LAUGHING!!!! I means seriously, I fell out of my chair and spewed water all over my Mac.Thanks I needed that.Scott
… YouPorn.com?
I will do extensive research on YOUJIZZ.com and LIBRARY of TTHUMBS.com
Interesting!http://curlysxxx.blogspot.com/
Just because child molesters happen watch porn, that doesn’t mean that everybody who watches porn will become a child molester. I’m sure there are murderers, mailmen, pastors, rapists, and psychologists who watch porn, but that doesn’t mean that watching porn will make me a murderer, a mailman, a pastor, a rapist, or a psychologist, now does it? Correlation does not imply causation.
“Every guy … for sexually abused anyone, children or adults has put porn at the top of the list of things that got them all jacked up …”Every guy I know has “used” porn at some point. None of them have abused anyone sexually (that I know of, obviously). So using your sample of deviant subjects is not so scientificaly valid is it?
Seems to me ; the more fanatic you are about religion , the more obsessed with sex you become. Look at the suicide bombers … their reward is 7 virgins !!! … wonder why that’s motivation for destruction ? I guess they can’t get laid in the real world !
And when people drink alcohol, do ALL of them also start smoking marijuana, and then snort cocaine, then shoot up heroin? According to you, this is what will happen.I’ve watched porn on and off for a long time, and not ONCE have I ever had a desire to watch bondage, kiddie porn or bestiality. It ain’t my cup of tea, but it looks like it might be yours. You might want to rethink yourself there, Joe.
As stated in this article, you are looking at a biased controlled group. Look at the 40-50million Americans who look at porn, how many of them were fueled to rape? the percentage is so small there can’t be a correlation based on fact. Also, whenever someone commits anything that makes them feel guilty they look for a way to blame anything else, they choose porn because it is an acceptable excuse. Nothing more than an excuse.
So when you have sex with a women, eventually that isn’t enough for you joe? You have to keep moving up to weirder stuff until you molest children? Sounds like I want to keep you out of my neighborhood.
Ever stop to think the amateurs making the video are producing it porno style because they wanted to be stars in a private porno? Or maybe didn’t have the creativity or inclination to write out there own script? I find it about as varied as YouTube videos of say skateboarding. Some have tutorial like ways of instructing you on performing tricks, some simply show off tricks, some show board construction and everything else to do with skateboarding my point being the same will be found of the amateur porn video makers.
Once again someone cites personal experience as some significant contribution to the porn industry. I mean really 500 girls? That’s it? whats that…..one website MAYBE two?
I envision this statement made with a voice off of Invader Zim.
What do you propose to create jobs for all those you would be depriving of an income?
<—-Married six years, together for eight. Both my wife and I watch, together and apart, porn for self pleasure. We also have a great relationship and relations with each other regularly.
Single events even numbering in the hundreds simply don’t compare to the millions of times there were no issues. If you look at the “whole” picture you include the times when nothing untoward happens at all. Your numbers are off and it’s time to look past the victim and look at the world.
You know, I have to wonder about the anti-porn people. I say that because I can’t imagine any man with a functional reproductive system not enjoying porn in some way shape or form. As for the gateway bit, I have one friend who to this day only looks at pornographic photos because he is afraid of getting viruses downloading videos. I mean, not only has the content not escalated, but the medium itself has stayed the same. So long as those involved in porn are consenting adults, I say have at it, and keep it up (pardon the pun) because healthy adults like myself enjoy their work. And as a Christian, let me remind people not to forget that one of Jesus’ closest friends was a whore. He was not the judgmental type and would not want his followers thousands of years later to use his name as an excuse to judge others.
I wonder if their dogma specifies FEMALE virgins. I mean, wouldn’t that be a serious buzz kill if there were a bunch of ugly guys who couldn’t get any waiting for them. Possibly other suicide bombers lol.
Why would you be surprised at any of this? Dissemination, distortion, and outright lies have been the methodology of all theists from the first shaman until today. Theists are the most dishonest people on earth. Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been, caused by religion.Mankind will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of facts and rational thinking.
Hey now,There are some of us Christians that aren’t complete and total idiots/anti-intellectuals. I found that anti-porn event horrifying and I identify as Lutheran (ELCA-style, which means we are pro-gay marriage and having sexually active gay clergy). Plus, I’ve always been encourage to criticize the Bible and church doctrine, and I am a strong believer in having evidence and data to back up my hypothesis-as I’m an English Ph.D student who does ethnography as opposed to high abstract theory. That being said, I believe that religion is an entirely personal thing (which is why writing this is entirely uncomfortable-and admittedly somewhat hypocritical) and that one should NEVER force their own religion onto others (or lack of), again, which is why I find the born-again Christians (and missionary Christians) so damn annoying. Basically what I’m trying to say is there are some Christians who believe in a god, but are both critical about ideas of the “CHURCH,” or a GOD that is hyper-involved, or that science cannot be a primary source of knowledge-making in this world.Side note to Proud Heathen-People still worship the Old Norse gods? That’s awesome! Can you tell me more? (and this is not in a, if you tell me more I will try to convert you way, but in a, I’m completely fascinated to hear about this way)
I also sense a logical fallacy here: “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” (it happened after that, therefore because of that), with more than a hint of domino theory. All those guys who claim porn is the cause of their sex crimes are also falling for the Christian anti-porn crusaders’ spiel. Statistically speaking, your sample is very narrow and already pre-selected, considering what kind institution you probably work for.As for domino/slippery slope theory: if that were true, my zapping of aliens and robots in videogames in the early ’80s would inevitably and invariably lead to me blasting cops by the time I turned 20. But the “theory” is not true.
Those born-again crusaders so annoy me, and entertain me at the same time. (I’m the great-grandson, grandnephew, and nephew of Assemblies of God pastors.) Obviously these anti-porn crusaders weren’t using reason to persuade; they don’t believe in reason and don’t think they need it. God, they say, will put it in your heart to believe in their message, and that is enough for them.Another reason they don’t try to convince us with reason is that they believe that sexual incorrectness is caused by the Devil. Think ex-gay “therapy”. They think one’s gayness or feminism or porn addiction is curable through faith healing: accept Christ in your heart, and God will instantly make you straight.As for Shelly: her brain has been screwed up by more than the drugs, it seems to me. I suspect God rescrambled her brain…”Feminist rage in 3…2…” That line made the whole entry for me! ;)
“This is a slippery slope that begins with dialogue and lead to…… “slippery hands.
Fuck you you just can’t get a woman so you go play with yourself to fake people who are fixed. You suck and it is nasty like your sick mind faggot. Now go to hell. If you cannot be normal why bother? Feminist my ass. I am a man with values. Porn is sicko shit. Dummy!!!
“…why can’t they just come up with some evidence rather than simply spouting off about religion and using biased anecdotes?”Because that is the only thing they have.
Below is a fictional account of what “might” happen to our morals.I would like to see intelligent discussion and not sophomoric sarcasm and stereotyping, but I don’t know that I can expect that seeing how this site is from someone out of Undue Perversity, err Purdue University…..dang it I broke my own rule!Seriously though, I can see both sides to the argument.******************************************************************Brian was 28 when he bought his first FACA (female anatomically correct android). They had been around since the early 2020’s, but had been much too expensive to personally own. Now that the price had dropped to around $80,000, Brian had thought that he would buy a car every 8-10 years, instead of every 4-5 years and new FACA in between. Besides, the new FACAs were much more realistic than the old ones, since the technology had developed to provide cooling to all the internal computers and simultaneously make the robot warm to the touch by providing fluidics through the computers to dissipate heat through a network of “capillaries” located just under the “skin.” Yes, the new models were friendly and warm. Brian was introduced to FACAs in college, where the fraternities would rent a FACA during the weekends and go on binges of drinking and sex. The rental prices were rather high at first, since these FACAs were million-dollar machines, but eventually the supply caught up with demand and almost everybody could afford to rent or buy one.Early attempts to create human-like robots were forced to reply upon microprocessor technology with large, heavy batteries that required frequent recharging. ASIMO, produced by Honda, was the first robot to display human-like movement, but was capable of only an hour’s operation before recharging its 17 pound battery pack. However, the invention of carbon nanotube-based computers increased the computing power, reduced power consumption, and decreased the weight of computing electronics. Coupled with rapid increases in speech recognition, the first human-like robots were soon being manufactured. Instead of magnesium frames covered with thick plastic, the robots were eventually designed using lightweight carbon-fiber composite designed to mimic the structure of human bones moved by pulley systems to generate the full range of human motion. The hard plastic was soon replaced with fabrics that felt like real skin. Thus, the transformation from machine to android was nearly complete.Not content with merely an online presence, the adult entertainment industry soon realized that androids, properly constructed, could earn them billions of dollars in additional revenue. The first of these sex robots were crude, non-animated versions introduced in the early 2010’s.1 However, soon top programmers and engineers were hired away from the automakers and computer companies with offers of up to ten times their average salaries, similar to what had been done with their movie businesses in the late 2010’s, when they had hired away Hollywood’s best CG programmers to turn out realistic-looking virtual pornography movies. Of course, the acceptance of pornography as legitimate entertainment had rapidly escalated in the late 2000’s, especially after Generation X had raised their own families.2 Although the newly designed FACA looked good, they were still somewhat clumsy and had trouble with all but the most common colloquialisms. For the average male college student, this was not a major problem, since conversation was not his major intent. However, when companies tried to market MACA, the male counterpart, to the female college crowd, the acceptance was less than stellar, although some women insisted that they weren’t any worse at conversation than the average male. However, in the 2020’s prices were way too high for all but the wealthy to purchase their own android.The breakthrough in computing came in the early 2030’s when software engineers finally were able to design computers that could learn and interact in the way the human brain works. Coupled with individual nanotube computer-controlled joints, the androids were nearly indistinguishable from average human beings. Money from the adult entertainment industry, in their push for realistic motion and conversation, had accelerated the technology in what would have taken decades to only a few years. Mass production of FACA’s rapidly brought down prices, and competition with mainstream entertainment providers, who didn’t want to be left out of the rapidly expanding market, pushed prices further down. However, what had begun as merely weekend binges in college dorms and fraternities was brought to the mainstream. Acceptance among the male population evolved rapidly as men realized they could get an ideal “woman” whose only goal was to serve him. Entertainment companies became more bold as FACA were advertised as being “better than sex.” In addition, FACA were adept at gourmet cooking, cleaning, and household chores, so that one could always use utility as an excuse to get one.As more and more men were able to purchase their own FACA, marriage rates dropped precipitously and women who were unable to find a real man turned to MACA or homosexuality in order to maintain relationships. The Church was inconsistently opposed to the whole FACA idea. After all, it wasn’t like there was a specific commandment against having sex with a machine. An added bonus was that abortion virtually disappeared and out-of-wedlock pregnancies (in addition to any pregnancies at all) became very rare. Sperm banks sprang up all over as women who wanted to have children were forced to pay exorbitant prices, since very few men were interested in donating (even with the enticement of a free FACA rental for the purpose of donating at the sperm bank). Population control groups and environmentalists were thrilled that the human birth rate was now rapidly declining well below replacement levels. Several women’s groups formed an alliance in an attempt to outlaw the sale of FACA. Virtually all attempts to legislate against FACA were either blocked by male legislators or in the courts as restricting freedom of speech. Finally, in the much watched case, city of Provo vs. FACA Entertainment, prosecutors attempted to get the practice outlawed on the basis of anti-slavery laws. In attempting to prove that FACA were intelligent beings that deserved protection from oppression under the constitution of the United States, it seemed that the lawyers for the city were going to be able to prove their point, as they cross examined a victim of FACA abuse. However, the defense brought in their own FACA to cross examine. In the middle of the examination, the defense attorney suddenly grabbed the FACA and slammed it to the ground, scattering pieces of the machine all over the floor. Suddenly, the facade of humanity was gone, as the lawyer asked if anyone was going to charge him with a crime. The last challenge against the widespread use of FACA had been crushed.Ininitially, all FACA had been designed as young adult versions of their human counterparts. However, emboldened by their sweeping victories in the courts, FACA were soon designed as young girls and boys, and even animals, to meet every possible sexual perversion of their intended markets. Even those men who bought the adult FACA versions found their attitudes changing, since there were no consequences to anything they did with their FACA. After all, it didn’t matter if you swore at your FACA or spoke harshly to it, since it always did exactly what you wanted. Over time, men who owned FACA became more and more rude to their human counterparts as the degradation of society accelerated. Men who owned a FACA disdained the company of real women, with all their incessant demands and mood swings. The sexual revolution was complete and we were all the victims.Yes, the above scenario should bother you, whether you are a Christian or an atheist. Before you say that the scenario above is unlikely, I would like for you to consider some facts that led me
to write the story and come to the belief that it is entirely possible that our societies could be headed in that direction. First, there are no legal barriers to the scenario playing out in full. The Supreme Court has ruled that nearly all forms of pornography are first amendment “protected speech.” There is no reason to believe that a machine would not fall into that category. So there are no legal barriers. There are scientific barriers to robotic designs, but those are rapidly disappearing, as the first “FACA” are already being marketed.
You use faulty logic under the premise that parents are the only influence on a persons behaviours.
That story ends by heavily abusing the Slippery Slope Fallacy. And ignores another fact that courts have been supporting for several years now; There’s a thing called lolicon. Which is a fetish for drawn or animated prepubescent girls. Canada, America, and Austrlia all confiscate any paraphernalia for this fetish that people attempt to transport or ship into the countries, I don’t doubt Britain and several other European nations would too. If your scenario came to pass, there is a precedent that building FACAs in the image of children under the age of consent would be made illegal. Another glaring flaw in your parable is this; no matter what you do, a FACA is not equivalent to a human. You can not share a meaningful social relationship with a FACA (if you can, and they are truly sapient, then the larger issue would be emancipation and FACA rights, not what they do to human relationships). Only a sexual one. Which makes it no different from any other mastubatory aid or prostitution. Neither of which have caused any sort of drop in marriage rates, nor has the ban of prostitution in most of America caused a *rise* in marriage rates.Humans need sexual release, they don’t always have another member of the species that they’re deeply connected to that’s willing to do it. Suggesting people get married so they can have sex is absolutely silly. That is not a cornerstone of marriage, that’s part of why divorce rates are so high in the first place; the older generations that staunchly believe you have to be married to have sex get married, have sex, get bored when they have nothing else in common, and get divorced. Then repeat the cycle. And teach their children that it’s okay to do this, as long as you don’t have sex outside of marriage. If anything, the existence of FACAs wouldn’t hurt marriage rates, but drastically decrease divorce rates, as people would come together in marriage only because they were interested in sharing their life with each other. It’d provide an outlet for sexual release that perfectly simulates sex with another person. As for banging a robotic animal, that’s irrelevant as there are only two outcomes; 1. The FACA is a good enough substitute it encourages zoophiles to purchase one rather than risk prosecution and harm to a real animal. 2. It’s not a good enough substitute, zoophiles continue to rape animals, and continue to be pariahs for it. Oh, and your parable also comes off as sexist. It only mentions the reaction of women to the MACA as an off-handed note. Why are men the only ones effected? Why would women not adapt to replacing men in their lives with a MACA? Afterall, the MACA should be able to do all of the domestic work a man would do.I also notice you don’t mention men turning to MACA or women turning to FACA. Why is this? People aren’t going to stop being gay just because robots are capable of replacing humans for sex.
Hi Scott,Slippery Slope is a good catch.You bring up some interesting points. Nice post.FYI it is not MY parable, it is something I ran across, I probably should have stated so in my original post.Cheers.
I agree with this poster – you can’t fight unfounded accusations with more unfounded accusations (well… you can, but it doesn’t work). It’s a bit like media producers claiming that voilence on TV has no effect on people’s (particularly kids’) behavior – it _might_ be true, but it doesn’t pass the sniff test.
BTW, I assume when we’re discussing porn, it’s ALL porn, including child porn, snuff films, and so on. Psychos can use video cams too.
tee hee: http://xkcd.com/774/
Ahhh…yeah, Right, Joe. If that was the case, then kiddie porn and snuff films would outdo even Hollywood blockbusters in sales, because EVERYONE using porn would go straight to them. Most folks tend to stop at consensual sex featuring consenting adults. The only slippery slope is in the lube…or the sticky hands afterwards.Anthony
“I wonder what proportion of child-molesting priests read the bible before or after abusing kids. All of them? Maybe we should control that bible thing. It seems to be linked to child abuse.”Kinda puts a whole new spin on that, “Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me” thing…
Actually when trying to study the effect of porn, a group of psychologists were looking for a group of men who did not use porn. The study was canceled because they couldn’t find such a group.
If they ate Corn Flakes, they’d have no sex drive! ;-)
“who’s so uptight and anti-sex that she’s not cool with you watching porn”I am atheist & I dislike porn, but it has nothing to do with being uptight & not liking sex. I’m sorry that you have such a narrow view of this.
Yes this: in a lot of readings I’ve done (and I’ve done a bit having several friends/family members/partners who were abused as children) what comes out as a ‘link’ is that porn is *used* by many molesters, ie/ they show it to the kids, often after having given them alcohol or drugs. This is predatory behaviour (rather than an issue *with* porn) – these people watch for the signs of what this kid needs: to be treated like a grown up? Here, have a beer with me, we’re mates. They show the kids porn because it’s a fairly natural instinct (so far as I can see) to become aroused by nudity and seeing sexual interactions (and yes from a young age – I was not molested but I do remember being absolutely fascinated by breasts from a young age and feeling quite aroused). I’m getting off track. I guess ‘no link’ maybe states it a bit high – there is a ‘link’ though not a causal link as in porn causes people to molest, but rather porn is often used by molesters to cause feelings of arousal and possibly confusion in order to move in on their prey.
Oh indeed there is. Go look at Youvutu
The other bit that really shat me was “If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you”. What I loathe about this particular trick of Christianity is its assumptions and arrogance. Excuse me but you are presuming my man BELIEVES there is a God and just – whoopsy daisy – can’t stay committed. He WANTS to he TRIES to he knows it’s ‘right’ but he fails…he slips and falls. No. Both myself and my partner are atheists. Ie/ it isn’t that we don’t believe in God, it’s that we believe there is no god. And astoundingly enough things like monogamy and loyalty, love, desire, kindness, truthfulness, faithfulness, laughter, adoration and intense blissful joy are still ours. He IS faithful to me, and he is NOT ‘unfaithful’ to ‘The God’. He lives a good life and believes that religion is a crutch that he does not need. He’s healthy, happy, good kind and responsible. I believe the same and I am filled with joy, adventurous and brave, fiercely loyal and protective.
Correlation does not imply causation. I’ve watched more porn than you can imagine and have never had the desire to abuse children.
MT. Meant to say “Correlation does not prove causation”
The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data.’
Summary: Men are shallow and only want obedient sex slaves, and most women don’t enjoy sex enough to want sophisticated sex toys. Advanced AI has no stronger impact on society than creating advanced sex dolls. Men hate women’s feelings. Women are incapable of political action without being able to sexually control men. There are no gay people. There is such a thing as The Christian Church (as opposed to many specific churches and organizations), and It only attacks sexual practices when the Bible tells It to specifically. Pornography has full First Amendment protection. Robots would be considered “protected speech” if a lawyer waved his hands and intoned “It’s just porn. It’s just porn.” Most men can live with robots who are physically indistinguishable from women, form intimate relationships for years, and not feel any urge to consider them human. Men don’t like having kids. No one has empathy unless the nuclear family indoctrinates them with it. We should care about a protagonist who gets dropped in the first paragraph. We should take a bizarre and unrealistic story seriously just because it says it isn’t in the last paragraph. Widespread acceptance of sex-toy-robot-women has something to do with whether or not porn is legal. The fact that Alabama has a ban on sales of sex toys (that has not been seen to violate the First Amendment) doesn’t undermine this argument and isn’t even relevant enough to mention.
There are some real downsides to porn (just off the top of my head: porn is terrible sex education, its production is indistinguishable from prostitution and sometimes rape, and porn is surrounded by and to some extents promotes a culture of extreme misogyny,) but these folks seem to have been working hard to avoid mentioning any of them.Also, Gingrich is not a man you want to be agreeing with on the economy. While economists don’t usually consider the fact, it’s simply true that a fair amount of the things people will pay for are just useless junk. In this sense, porn is no more productive than (for example) Gingrich.And really, you didn’t know Lifehouse were God-Rockers? I agree that Hanging By a Moment immediately gets incredibly creepy when you first learn that, but I had that experience while the song was still in the Top 40.
Actually they probably read the parts about women being obedient to men, and children obedient to their parents in all things. Or the parts about selling your daughter as a concubine. Or the part about god ordering the wholesale rape of all “women children” Midianites… well the virgins anyway. The Bible has been used to support a lot of evil. Lot… now there’s an interesting story as well.
Its funny, for me it went a whole different way. Vanilla porn, hardcore bondage, hollowed out fruit, exhaust pipes, kitchen utensils. Guess I was lucky i didn’t slip down the illegal side.
Great job! That is all.
It is a very versatile book. Can be used to support slavery, and used to fight slavery, promote violence and against violence. The book that any one can use to support what ever craziness they want to do Wonderful isn’t it.
Great Post, Sex creates Horcruxes ROFL, that dirty, “He who shall not be named”
Disclaimer: I do, in fact, understand that the above comment was made almost two years ago :PI can understand someone not liking porn just because it isn’t their thing. That’s cool, and the issue shouldn’t be pressed further once that’s established. I would, however, like to help dispel some of the generalities made in the above post: It sounds like you were watching poorly made gonzo porn made by shady, misogynistic companies. While it’s a shame that such companies exist, it’s important to understand that there ARE some respectable companies making high-quality (relatively speaking, anyway) productions in the adult entertainment industry. To assume that all porn companies employ drug-addled amateurs is an insult the professionals who take their craft* seriously. (*I say “craft” because they are, in essence, actors, and consider themselves as such.)Take Wicked Pictures for example: When just ONE of their actors tested positive for HIV in October of 2010, they completely ceased production of all movies in order to notify all other employees who had sexual contact with said actor and to make sure the virus wasn’t contracted by anyone else (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…. They didn’t immediately throw the actor to the wolves and replace them with another random person who wanted to have sex on camera so they could continue business as usual; instead, they dealt with the situation professionally and responsibly. I can’t imagine why they’d go to such measures unless they considered the sex workers under their employ to be human beings.Also, as a step in the right direction, the Adult Industry Medical Healthcare Foundation was founded in 1998 in order to provide testing, general physical/mental healthcare, and industry-related sex education to people who work in the sex industry (http://www.aim-med.org/home/). It’s a small step, sure, but it’s definitely better than nothing at all.Now, with all of that said, of course there are porn “companies” with douche bags at the helm looking to exploit and degrade men and women in an effort to make their first million dollars. Those companies deserve to be shut down, and they usually blip out of existence within a year or two, just like any other poorly-conceived start up. I don’t think all porn needs to be shut down because those companies exist, however. That would be likened to getting food poisoning at one restaurant and saying that all other restaurants in the world need to be shut down because they, too, could give you food poisoning.
“Hadn’t seen”, not “did not use”, very important difference. I mean, I agree that it’s fine/normal etc, I’m just a stickler for accuracy, sorry.
I think there are good points in both this and Anonymous’ posts, ones that perhaps would be served by distinguishing porn in general from “the porn industry”. I’ve described myself as anti-porn in the past, but soon gave it up when I realised that it was a misrepresentation, that I’m actually anti-porn-industry. I have no problem with people watching other people have sex whatsoever, in fact I think they should have greater facility to do it safely, whether online or in person, for money or not. Most big business cares nothing for the welfare of its employees. There’s no reason why big business dealing in sex would choose to be any more ethical than any other kind. It just has to be made to be ethical, and in my opinion that is best achieved with legalisation+regulation. Religious arguments seem only ever to encourage prohibition, which never seems to actually work for anything.
I too carry flesh-eating bacteria. In a plastic bag, in case of muggers. No license required, you see.
I have to say that comment about sex creating horcruxes was pretty amusing. But all those comments about being good moral people, WTF is “moral”? A little meta ethical relativism pl0x and thankee. Also, are you really anti drug?
For my own sanity, I’m just going to have to assume you spent an evening having delicious food at Q-dubs and nothing else. Mmm, Qdoba…
I don’t know, I would be a lot of date rape at colleges would be fueled by porn. That means more that they weren’t educated on the worth of women rather than that porn is bad.
A very small percentage of porn respects women, it’s more likely W-W porn to show female dominance than M-W porn.My problem with the “atheist community” is that there is no such thing. I’m not a libertine, or a libertarian, I just happen to not believe in God or the rigmarole surrounding his “worship”. My kids are moral, I’d ask them to think seriously before having an abortion, I’d tell them porn is okay if you realize that women should not be treated as objects in real life (just like the “no animals were harmed during the filming” disclaimer when animals are apparently molested or killed).Free speech does has boundaries, and the Venn diagram for watching porn and disrespecting women, or even worse, respecting women only for their ta-tas and A’s let alone other naughty bits, is pretty obviously overlapping.Anyone who is happy in the bedroom won’t be looking for porn, so that’s about 0.0000001 % of the population, thank goodness me and my spouse included. I like to watch porn as much as I like to watch animals having sex on the National Geographic channel. (and don’t expect that means I’m frigid, I’m surprised more research hasn’t been done on injuries during sex – I threw my hip out for weeks once at the tender age of 25, laughingly telling everyone I must have “slept wrong”).
I’m not going to pretend to know the numbers or be up on the current accepted thoughts on the subject. The relationship can not be judged as if it happens in a vacuum. I’m sure that pervasive exposure to endless porn has some effect on people. But it’s made more complicated when having a completely normal reaction to this porn is viewed as being evil and wrong.Beyond that, just how many people have you “worked with” that are in jail for sexual abuse?
I don’t understand what is meant by “natural pair bonding”. It’s not especially “natural” for a male to couple with just one female in our species. The point is at least arguable anyway. So do you support polygamy or group marriages? It seems there would be more of a support system that way and even more role models and food fetchers.
@MakariosI think the sampling bias comes is relevant here.
Sorry but biology disagrees with you. According to some biologists, it is actually more natural for men and women to trade partners every five years. Additionally, having multiple children by different partners increases the chances that some of them will make it to adulthood. Not saying its right or wrong. It just is.Admittedly, we can overcome our instinctual programming but it does take concerted effort to do so. I think as long as people are being responsible with their bodies and their relationships then it’s really no one’s place to judge another person’s choices. Especially if you are basing your judgment on a 2000 year old piece of Bronze Age mythology. The advice of invisible people does not count.
COMPLETELY AGREE with Anonymous @ 02/21/2010 07:25 PM . I’ve said the exact same thing myself. Don’t fall for the binary thinking! It’s a LIE.
Excellent article. I had been under the false impression that you were in the sex-negative camp, or one of the ‘antis’ as we call them on YouTube. I was totally fucking wrong, and I’m glad. You saw through the ridiculous, un-backed up claims of theirs and saw that were bullshit. :)Also, the religious connection/influence is often ignored by the radical feminist anti-sexwork crowd most of the time, and they ally themselves with many fundie anti-porn/prostitution orgs, ones that hugely mess with trafficking stats to make it falsely appear as though there is a ton of forced or underage work. It alarms the fuck out of me, since those same groups, if they had their way, would keep women barefoot and pregnant and kept prisoner, and living in the home of the man their father sold them to as a ‘wife’ (=sex slave and labour slave all in one). Yikes! Anyways, great article.
Actually, I’ve got no problem with that one, except why should it be a negative? Most of us oldies don’t get sex from our spouses any more. But after being married for 38 years, I’ve still got to get rid of that extra semen so I don’t get prostate cancer like my fundamentalist brother who thinks masturbation is wrong. And getting divorced and dating grandmas seems like a big step to take to get laid. So all I’ve got left is online porn, that OK with you evangelicals??(And don’t forget, you’re going to be old one day yourself!)
Awesome post…you’re incredibly brave for attending that and not just egging the stage xD
Watching porn doesn’t doesn’t make you sex positive. Not watching porn doesn’t make you sex negative. I find it pretty boring. It’s like mechanical sex. The same scenes with the same freaky looking female bodies over and over. It tries to sell an idea of what sex is and what is sexy. I”m sure there an exceptions in porn, I’m talking about the mainstream easily accessible stuff.
God created sex so you could be one with your partner. Every time you have sex, you’re creating oneness with that new person, so you’re fracturing your soul into pieces. OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES. That’s really how Voldemort was doing it, but Rowling had to keep the book rated PG-13. Man, so does that mean when I reach 7 sex partners I’ll become all powerful? Sign me up!I wish I would have found your blog sooner! This made me laugh so hard I cried.
You should have just stayed home and read Robert Jensen.
I assume they have also all breathed air and imbibed water. Citing a one-way correlation does not a causation make.
By this logic, everyone’s music taste would over time lead to Death Metal, because soft rock only gets the job done for so long, then its hard rock, metal, speed metal until you end up listening to bands that sound like pigs slaughtered on stage.
I like looking at fixed Lesbos. But that’s probably because I am one. :P
HelloI am DerBasment cat.My girlfriend linked me to your blog whenshe was staying with me. I nearly fucking choked on my drink at thisone. I like most of your posts. I don; t really have much to say onthis other than I find the flame war highly amusing and the massivebutt-hurt hilarious. Some people can; t handle the gifts ofAphrodite. I’m a Greek styled Pagan. I liked the wholeGreek rationalization, Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, you know? Personalso far my favorite myth cycle is Greek so I stick with that. They aregood stories that speech of the human condition. Do I think the Iliadand Odyssey are the literal truth? No that’s fucking ridiculous andthere’s no archeological evidence to support it. As awoman and a feminist I don’t like some of the Patriarchal bit of theHelenstic world view. I understand it’s histricaly acurate, but itdoesn;t fit with the modern world. So I look a little further intodifferent parts of greek mythology pre-Zeus’s domination over Hera.(If any one calls me on this it will take me a WHILE to find thesources.) Plus myth systems are tied to cultures and the people thatkeep them so they constantly evolve. There was a point in there somewhere I think. Fuck. Um…Shit. Now I sound like a fucking Crackpot.Any way I bellieve in the scientific methopid despitebeing one of these thiests. That’s my one beef. It;s just like, whyare we all lumped together? Athiests aren;t all one group? I meangrouping every one together just because they lack belief in a dietyor supernatural entity? Why, what else do they have in common? Ithink the samething applies to Thiests. We don’t really all fit intoone group. Hell.. Shit I’m not sure what group I’m in according tosome people I’m agnostic, some I’m wiccan, some I’m Satanist and SomeI’m Helenesmos and Some I’m Ne4o-pagan. @_@. Just…can you pleasestop lumping us semi laid back people with the foaming at the mouthfundies? Logic is good, Science is Good, Bodily integraity is Good,You have the right to control your Body and Mind ect…Also,Porn is delcious. On Toast. Seriously though Blag-hag, I have massive gay-Crush on you.
Only if you dont; wash your hands…
…That was fucking Hilarious….*Feeds the troll trool treats*
The guys in porn videos call the women “girls” all the time too. I hate that.
As a Christian, I’ll say that a few points made at this conference are a bit too narrow-minded–kinda surprising cause I attended one a few years ago and my experience was rather different. I don’t, however, budge on the problem of porn, mainly for exploitation of women. And I hate the idea of performance in intimacy, especially one that’s forced and robotic. “Love burns brighter than sunshine”
How would you know whether pron is forced and robotic or not, MyK?…and you go ahead and ask someone like Sasha Grey whether she thinks she was exploited by porn or not. No really, here is her Twitter page: http://twitter.com/#!/sashagre…I dare ya.
“What better way to enslave a man than to give him the vote and call him free?”
Apparently, feeding him vapid deepities and convincing him to regurgitate them on grounds of mistakenly believing them to be profound and insightful.
If you think Camus is vapid then can’t think much of yourself.
“God created sex so you could be one with your partner. Every time you have sex, you’re creating oneness with that new person, so you’re fracturing your soul into pieces. OMG SEX CREATES HORCRUXES. That’s really how Voldemort was doing it, but Rowling had to keep the book rated PG-13. Man, so does that mean when I reach 7 sex partners I’ll become all powerful? Sign me up!”Going by that logic, one of my ex-girlfriends would be the Uber-God!
“Porn destroys the economy because you’re wasting your money on it.”WTF???If you can’t find free porn, you don’t deserve your genitalia….and who knew all those 8 to 16-year-olds had so much money to invest in porn anyways? “Time to get a new lawn mowing gig, I can’t afford my porn no more!”
“If you can’t find free porn, you don’t deserve your genitalia” If that doesn’t deserve to find it’s way into Bartlett’s, nothing does.It’s a misunderstanding of how the economy works anyway. While not a capital investment, money spent on porn is certainly better economically than money spent on the military.
“If you can’t find free porn, you don’t deserve your genitalia” If that doesn’t deserve to find it’s way into Bartlett’s, nothing does.It’s a misunderstanding of how the economy works anyway. While not a capital investment, money spent on porn is certainly better economically than money spent on the military.
Bah, meant this as a reply to pornalysis. Moderator, please feel free to delete the copy.