1. DonDueed says

    When was the mural painted? Surely not too many decades ago. Sad to see so much deterioration.

  2. Nightjar says

    Great idea, showing some close-ups. I love how this is all so rich in details.


    Usted está aquí?
    That surprises me.

    Hm… may I ask why?

  3. voyager says

    I hope there’s some will to see the mural preserved or restored. It’s a beautiful piece of art and its message seems highly relevant to the world today.

  4. Tethys says

    My Spanish teacher was from Spain, so I use aquí. In fact, it’s the very first word she taught us as she called the role. My Mexican and Puerto Rican aquaintances also use aqui, and I’ve never heard acá. It’s equally possible that I’ve heard it and did not understand what they were saying because I’m not fluent enough for regional dialects.

  5. Tethys says

    I went looking for a picture that included the whole bird (? Rhea?) in the first photo. The name of this mural is Propiedad de los Hombres ( Property of the Men), which is very appropriate. It was done as part of Argentina’s bicentennial in 2010.

    So much going on, thanks for the great photos. :) I especially like the waves and how Cura manages to convey so much with them.

  6. says

    My Spanish is also peninsular and I admit I didn’t dig into the Cono Sur varieties that deeply, mostly because they’re the furthest removed (incidentally often older versions) from the peninsular variety. The American varieties I know best are Cuban and Venezuelan, and they used acá-allá.
    BTW, linguistically (and politically) they count as varieties with their own standard, much like American and British English, despite the Real Academia fighting tooth and nail for decades to have the monopoly on “proper Spanish”.

  7. Tethys says

    Ah so language variants is the term I was looking for, rather than dialect? I know that all of the spanish speaking countries have unique forms, and also crossover and borrow words from the indigenous peoples. My formal Spanish instruction is only 4 years of high school level, so we did not go into the more technical details beyond knowing that many different variants exist, and we were being taught ‘proper’ Catalan.

    My Mexican co-workers were amused by my accent and liked to tease me about it. I learned as much about speaking the language from 2 years of working with them, as the years of school.

  8. says

    I hope Kreator is OK with us kinda highjacking the thread…
    The hierarchy is kind of
    Sociolect (how a social group talks)
    Ideolect (how a specific person talks in a specific situation.

    Languages that are spoken in more than one country usually have different varieties with their own standars, which mean that things that are considered correct in one variety, like substituting the form “vosotros” with “usteded” are considered incorrect in a different standard. “Papa” for potato isn’t a dialect word, but the Latin American one.
    Dialects are usually regional matters (except for RP in Britain) and are generally not accepted as standard.
    And yeah, you always learn most when speaking. I think my vocabulary exploded when I moved to Ireland.
    BTW, I suppose you were taught proper “Castellano” because Catalan is a whole different kettle of fish.As for the accent, the one consistent difference between Spain and LA is the pronunciation of “c/z”. Spain pronounces them like a voiceless th, LA like a voiceless s, which is most likely what your co-workers found very funny because to them you probably sounded like having a really bad lisp.
    In my experience the native speakers of Spanish often have less knowledge about the differences between their varieties than people who learn it as a foreign language because most books train you in it, which leads to one million funny misunderstandings. A Cuban of mine once told me the story of her colleague who was teaching in Mexico. He told his students their were going to take a bus and ended up telling them they were going to fuck a baby.

  9. Ice Swimmer says

    Agreeing with others on preservation/restoration.

    There’s this comedy video (in English) by a bilingual comedian about how Spanish-speaking people are divided by their language.

  10. rq says

    I for one have found the language conversation inspired by Kreator’s photos very interesting and educational, and I’m finding parallels within the Latvian community, as there’s ‘official’ Latvian (pulled out of someone’s ass, basically, because you need a yardstick against which to measure all others and for schooling), there’s several local dialects (not just accents, and one dialect is even contending for separate-language status, but that’s a complicated matter), there are local accents, and then you get into the diaspora, which is again devolving into varieties and dialects, plus the accents that the Real Latvians like to laugh about… But then, a lot of diaspora language is like a repository for pre-War Latvian, because that’s what was taught to us because that’s what people knew, so it’s a different sort of language preservation.
    Anyway, that was an aside, carry on, it’s fascinating. I love language and the way it changes and yet somehow people mostly manage to understand each other (with more or less effort). If Kreator does mind, please continue in TNET?

  11. Kreator says

    Hi all, sorry for taking so long to reply and thanks for all the kind words. I certainly hope that the mural is restored as well, like others from the same author that are in dire need of it, so much so in fact that I haven’t tried to take pictures of them.

    Giliell, while “acá” is indeed the default word for “here” that we use in conversation in Argentina, in formal writing “aquí” (and neutral Spanish in general) is still widely used and often preferred.

    While we’re at it, I’ll mention that our dialect is called Rioplatense Spanish and is common both in Argentina and Uruguay; in fact, it’s easy to confuse people from our countries if you’re not in the know. As an example of a difference between us, I’ll mention that in Argentina we call sneakers “zapatillas” (“zapato” = shoe, “illa” = feminine diminutive) while in Uruguay they are usually called “championes,” after the “Champion” brand that popularized them in the country.

    I’ll be adding my notes to the third section of the mural later today, so stay tuned.

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